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Re: Portable version degrading

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Yes as I say, using them as we do we have had very few issues even in the post and these do not have retractable or covers for end caps either.


Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Antony Stone" <antony.stone@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, January 19, 2018 2:28 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Portable version degrading


USB drives do need to be unmounted before removing them, otherwise there is
the risk of file system corruption. Precisely the same is true for external
hard drives, floppy disks, or any other writeable medium you can temporarily
attach to a computer.

I've never seen a USB thumb drive fall apart, and I think they're considerably
more robust than floppy disks, which is basically what they replaced. You can
also drop them on the floor with a good deal more confidence of them working
afterwards than if you drop an external hard disk.

Yes, they're vulnerable to static electricity; that's why most of them have
plastic caps to put over the contacts or a slider to retract the contacts into
the body.

My experience is that if they're treated reasonably they work very well. If
they're mistreated they'll give as many problems as any other mistreated
storage medium.


Antony.

On Friday 19 January 2018 at 15:17:36, tonea.ctr.morrow@... wrote:

A few years back, I had a job for three years where people brought me their
files on USB thumb drives. These things are horrible in terms of
long-life. The really do have to be unmounted prior to removing from the
computer or they get corrupted. They physically fall apart easily. And,
the hardware inside seems to be more vulnerable to static electricity data
loss than other portable drives, certainly more vulnerable than most
computers.



I would think that would be the problem.



Tonea



-----Original Message-----

I've noticed over the past couple years that my portable install of nvda
will sometimes degrade or get a bit corrupted over time all by itself
while the installed version is always stable as a rock. Does anyone know
why this is and is there any way to prevent this from happening? I use
the portable copy to test a couple add ons and if the portable version
corrupts, it can make it appear that the add on is defective or has a bug
while it really doesn't. Deleting the portable copy and making a new one
will clear it up. I also notice a few functions of nvda either don't work
at all or nvda gets very sluggish in responsiveness and this all gets back
to normal after a complete flush and remake of the portable version. As I
say, this never has happened at all with my installed copy on the same
computer.





Roger
--
#define SIX 1+5
#define NINE 8+1

int main() {
printf("%d\n", SIX * NINE);
}
- thanks to ECB for bringing this to my attention

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.


Re: Portable version degrading

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I disagree, but do agree over dismounting but this is a function of windows caching, not of the vulnerability of ram drives in themselves.
I have noticed though that in windows 7 at least using a command mode batch file to copy to a ram drive, when the batch file exits back to windows the cache is written and all is sweetness and light!

As for static, well unless you are very very unlucky most seem OK to me.
I say this as we use several hundred of them to distribute audio and have had very few failures due to corrupt media.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: <tonea.ctr.morrow@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, January 19, 2018 2:17 PM
Subject: [nvda] Portable version degrading


A few years back, I had a job for three years where people brought me their files on USB thumb drives. These things are horrible in terms of long-life. The really do have to be unmounted prior to removing from the computer or they get corrupted. They physically fall apart easily. And, the hardware inside seems to be more vulnerable to static electricity data loss than other portable drives, certainly more vulnerable than most computers.



I would think that would be the problem.



Tonea



-----Original Message-----

I've noticed over the past couple years that my portable install of nvda will sometimes degrade or get a bit corrupted over time all by itself while the installed version is always stable as a rock. Does anyone know why this is and is there any way to prevent this from happening? I use the portable copy to test a couple add ons and if the portable version corrupts, it can make it appear that the add on is defective or has a bug while it really doesn't. Deleting the portable copy and making a new one will clear it up. I also notice a few functions of nvda either don't work at all or nvda gets very sluggish in responsiveness and this all gets back to normal after a complete flush and remake of the portable version. As I say, this never has happened at all with my installed copy on the same computer.





Roger


Re: Blog post on Firefox 58.

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

No you won't. the only fix will be if they either implement the events in Firefox or use their own sounds. This paranoia over trying to make applications that nothing else can gain access to in my view is a dead end and is false if it is supposed to be more secure. It will be found very soon now that access to other parts of windows and hacks to other software will still give you issues.
Somebody needs to try to educate the public about security. No number of so called secure systems can prevent it being compromised by the weakest link, the user.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Kingett" <@blindjourno>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, January 19, 2018 1:47 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.


You are right. Nothing is passed through from firefox. These new sounds appear to work on all browsers, not just firefox. They consist of very distinct sounds for loading pages, closing programs, dialog boxes popping up, and things like that, although, it still ads no sounds for completed downloads in firefox. Try as I might I can't find anything like that for just firefox alone.


Re: Portable version degrading

 

Hi,
It'll depend on what type of drive it is. If it's a traditional hard drive,
it'll degrade as data moves around, creating the need for defragmentation.
This is especially the case when data is repeatedly written and the file
system is asked to find new locations to hold the constantly changing data.
In case of solid-state drives, it'll degrade if the same region is written
repeatedly, as flash memory has limited endurance when it comes to data
reads and writes.
In case of Roger's issue: a possible contributing factor is constant add-on
updates. He uses an add-on that is updated on a regular basis, putting
strain on part of the drive where the add-on bits are stored. Thus, some
drive sectors are repeatedly bombarded with new information, and one way
operating systems will do in this case is move the new data somewhere else
on the drive, potentially fragmenting bits of files (I'll explain in a
moment). Thus one solution is to not test all add-on updates, but that's a
bit risky as Roger is one of the key testers for this add-on I'm talking
about.
Regarding fragmentation and what not: the following is a bit geeky but I
believe you should know about how some parts of a file system (an in
extension, operating systems) works, because I believe it'll help folks
better understand what might be going on:
Storage devices encountered in the wild are typically organized into many
parts, typically into blocks of fixed-length units called "sectors". A
sector is smallest unit of information that the storage device can present
to the outside world, as in how much data can be held on a storage device.
For example, when you store a small document on a hard disk drive (HDD) and
when you wish to open it in Notepad, Windows will ask a module that's in
charge of organizing and interpreting data on a drive (called a file system)
to locate the sector where the document (or magnets or flash cells that
constitute the document data) is stored and bring it out to you. To you, all
you see is the path to the document, but the file system will ask the drive
controller (a small computer inside hard disks and other storage devices) to
fetch data in a particular sector or region. Depending on what kind of
storage medium you're dealing with, reading from disks may involve waiting
for a platter with desired sector to come to the attention of a read/write
head (a thin magnetic sensor used to detect or make changes to magnetic
fields) or peering inside windows and extracting electrons trapped within.
This last sentence is a vivid description of how hard disks and solid-state
drives really work behind the scenes, respectively.
But storage devices are not just meant for reading things for your
enjoyment. Without means of storing new things, it becomes useless.
Depending on the medium you've got, when you save something to a storage
device, the file system in charge of the device will ask the drive
controller to either find a spot on a disk filled with magnets and change
some magnets, or apply heat pressure to dislodge all cells on a block, erase
the block, add new things, and fill the empty block with modified data
(including old bits). You can imagine how tedious this can get, but as far
as your work is concerned, it is safe and sound.
Now imagine you wish to read and write repeatedly on a storage device. The
file system will repeatedly ask the drive hardware to fetch data from
specific regions, and will look for new locations to store changes. On a
hard drive, because there are limited number of heads and it'll take a while
for desired magnetic region to come to attention of one, read speed is slow,
hence increased latency (latency refers to how long you have to wait for
something to happen). When it comes to saving things to HDD's, all the drive
needs to do is tell the read/write head to change some magnets wherever it
wishes, hence data overriding is possible and easy. But operating systems
(rather, file systems) are smarter than that, as we'll see below.
In case of solid-state drives, reading data is simple as looking up the
address (or sector) where the electrons comprising the data you want is
saved (akin to walking down a street grid), so no need to wait for a sensor
to wait for something to happen. This is the reason why solid-state drives
appear to respond fast when reading something. On the other hand, writing or
injecting electrons is very slow because the drive needs to erase the entire
block before writing new data. In other words, just changing a letter in a
document and saving it to an SSD involves a lot of work, hence SSD's are
slower when it comes to writing new things, but because of the underlying
technology in use, it is way faster than hard disks.
As hinted above, file systems are smarter than drive controllers to some
extent. If data is written to a drive, the drive controller will process
whatever it comes along its path. But file systems won't let drive
controllers get away with that: file systems such as NTFS (New Technology
File System) will schedule data writes so it'll have minimal impact on the
lifespan of a storage device. For hard disks, it'll try its best to tell the
drive to store file data in consecutive locations in one big batch, but that
doesn't always work. For SSD's, the file system will ask the drive to
storage new information in different cells so all regions can be used
equally (at least for storing new information; this is called ware
leveling). One way to speed things up is asking the drive to reorganize data
so file fragments can be found in consecutive sectors or trim deleted
regions so fresh information can be written to more blocks (for HDD's and
SSD's, respectively), and this operation itself is tedious and produce bad
results if not done correctly and carefully.

I do understand the above explanation is a bit geeky, but I believe you need
to know some things about how things work. It is also a personal exercise to
refresh my memory on certain computer science topics (I majored in it not
long ago, and my interests were mostly hardware and operating systems, hence
I was sort of naturally drawn to screen reader internals and how it
interacts with system software).
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Roger
Stewart
Sent: Friday, January 19, 2018 7:58 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Portable version degrading

The problem with this discussion is my portable version is on an internal
hard drive. So why is this degrading?

Nothing else on this drive has any trouble and I've checked, and there's no
file system errors nor any fragmenting.


Roger












On 1/19/2018 8:28 AM, Antony Stone wrote:
USB drives do need to be unmounted before removing them, otherwise there
is
the risk of file system corruption. Precisely the same is true for
external
hard drives, floppy disks, or any other writeable medium you can
temporarily
attach to a computer.

I've never seen a USB thumb drive fall apart, and I think they're
considerably
more robust than floppy disks, which is basically what they replaced. You
can
also drop them on the floor with a good deal more confidence of them
working
afterwards than if you drop an external hard disk.

Yes, they're vulnerable to static electricity; that's why most of them
have
plastic caps to put over the contacts or a slider to retract the contacts
into
the body.

My experience is that if they're treated reasonably they work very well.
If
they're mistreated they'll give as many problems as any other mistreated
storage medium.


Antony.

On Friday 19 January 2018 at 15:17:36, tonea.ctr.morrow@... wrote:

A few years back, I had a job for three years where people brought me
their
files on USB thumb drives. These things are horrible in terms of
long-life. The really do have to be unmounted prior to removing from the
computer or they get corrupted. They physically fall apart easily. And,
the hardware inside seems to be more vulnerable to static electricity
data
loss than other portable drives, certainly more vulnerable than most
computers.



I would think that would be the problem.



Tonea



-----Original Message-----

I've noticed over the past couple years that my portable install of nvda
will sometimes degrade or get a bit corrupted over time all by itself
while the installed version is always stable as a rock. Does anyone know
why this is and is there any way to prevent this from happening? I use
the portable copy to test a couple add ons and if the portable version
corrupts, it can make it appear that the add on is defective or has a bug
while it really doesn't. Deleting the portable copy and making a new one
will clear it up. I also notice a few functions of nvda either don't
work
at all or nvda gets very sluggish in responsiveness and this all gets
back
to normal after a complete flush and remake of the portable version. As
I
say, this never has happened at all with my installed copy on the same
computer.





Roger


Re: NVDA issue in win10 after security patch update.

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Could you perhaps be missing another update that might make this one install badly? If you mask or hide this update will the later updates install without issues?
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Amala" <anbujustin@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, January 19, 2018 1:35 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA issue in win10 after security patch update.


I tried at windows 10 without the below patch(windows security patch). It
is working as expected. Could anybody help resolve the issue. Thanks.

Windows Malicious Software Removal Tool for Windows 8, 8.1, 10 and Windows
Server 2012, 2012 R2, 2016 x64 Edition - November 2017 (KB890830)


On 18 Jan 2018 11:15, "Amala" <anbujustin@...> wrote:

Thanks for the response Brian.

Very recently we updated this patch. We cannot revert it.

Any solution to resolve this issue?

Amala J

On 17 Jan 2018 10:25 p.m., "Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io"
<bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:

That was a time ago. Why has it only just been installed?
Seems a bit odd.

Can you take the machine back to before the update for now?
Brian

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----- Original Message ----- From: "Amala" <anbujustin@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2018 1:03 PM
Subject: [nvda] NVDA issue in win10 after security patch update.


Hi All,

After the below patch in windows 10, NVDA is not working properly. It is
reading the text as unknown in chrome and Mozilla Firefox. It is working
partially working in edge.

Windows Malicious Software Removal Tool for Windows 8, 8.1, 10 and
Windows
Server 2012, 2012 R2, 2016 x64 Edition - November 2017 (KB890830)

Please help me.

Thanks and regards
Amala J




Re: Blog post on Firefox 58.

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

No likewise. I'm suspecting that the progress bar is non standard in that version.

I also have had issues with the download dialogue if you use 58 as a portable app.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Mendoza" <lowvisiontek@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, January 19, 2018 12:49 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.


In addition, I did tested this one time to my Windows 10 and nothing to
be against in terms of the speed. However, upon downloading certain file
the progress bar could not even heard in the background and not sure
what exactly causing of no sounds of it.


Robert Mendoza

On 1/19/2018 8:40 PM, Robert Mendoza wrote:

Unfortunately, some of the addons is not usable if you are using
Firefox Quantum that somehow could not adhere as for specific function
or purpose I do hope they would able to came up resolution to handle
this problem in terms of accessibility. Wondering they would have
predict this on hand cause seemingly impact lots of users. Not sure if
anyone here reported this to the Mozillian space so that they are
aware of.


Robert Mendoza

On 1/19/2018 7:16 PM, Clare Page wrote:

Hi !

I have used the Windows sound scheme for which a link was posted
below for a ong time now, both with Internet Explorer and with
Firefox, and I can report from my own experience that this sound
scheme only adds browser sounds to Firefox if the Navigational Sounds
Firefox add-on is used. Therefore, as I gather that Navigational
Sounds doesn’t work with Firefox Quantum, the sound scheme won’t
restore sounds in Firefox 57 or later, even though you will get other
sounds for the rest of Windows if you use the scheme.

Sorry this doesn’t help people who prefer sounds in their web
browsers, but I felt I should point out that the sound scheme
mentioned below will not solve the problem of there being no sounds
in the newest versions of Firefox and no possibility of installing
Navigational Sounds as an add-on for those new versions.

Bye for now!

From Clare

*From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] *On Behalf Of
*Robert Kingett
*Sent:* jeudi 18 janvier 2018 16:14
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.

I did some digging for you! This is why I love blind people so much.
Giving opinions rather than answering your question, to the person
who is looking for the sound scheme. It's not worth hearing all
opinions, much less explain it to a super blindy. :, don't bother
with them. They are not worth a reply. Anyway, I did some digging for
you and, although, it is not browser focused, it may help. It is a
sound scheme for windows that covers the whole operating system, even
web browsers. The link is below.

http://onj3.andrelouis.com/programs/44.1k%20-%20soundscheme%20for%20windows.exe



Re: Blog post on Firefox 58.

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I sent an email to the blog posters address but no reply has as yet surfaced at my end.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Mendoza" <lowvisiontek@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, January 19, 2018 12:40 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.


Unfortunately, some of the addons is not usable if you are using Firefox
Quantum that somehow could not adhere as for specific function or
purpose I do hope they would able to came up resolution to handle this
problem in terms of accessibility. Wondering they would have predict
this on hand cause seemingly impact lots of users. Not sure if anyone
here reported this to the Mozillian space so that they are aware of.


Robert Mendoza

On 1/19/2018 7:16 PM, Clare Page wrote:

Hi !

I have used the Windows sound scheme for which a link was posted below
for a ong time now, both with Internet Explorer and with Firefox, and
I can report from my own experience that this sound scheme only adds
browser sounds to Firefox if the Navigational Sounds Firefox add-on is
used. Therefore, as I gather that Navigational Sounds doesn’t work
with Firefox Quantum, the sound scheme won’t restore sounds in Firefox
57 or later, even though you will get other sounds for the rest of
Windows if you use the scheme.

Sorry this doesn’t help people who prefer sounds in their web
browsers, but I felt I should point out that the sound scheme
mentioned below will not solve the problem of there being no sounds in
the newest versions of Firefox and no possibility of installing
Navigational Sounds as an add-on for those new versions.

Bye for now!

From Clare

*From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] *On Behalf Of
*Robert Kingett
*Sent:* jeudi 18 janvier 2018 16:14
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.

I did some digging for you! This is why I love blind people so much.
Giving opinions rather than answering your question, to the person who
is looking for the sound scheme. It's not worth hearing all opinions,
much less explain it to a super blindy. :, don't bother with them.
They are not worth a reply. Anyway, I did some digging for you and,
although, it is not browser focused, it may help. It is a sound scheme
for windows that covers the whole operating system, even web browsers.
The link is below.

http://onj3.andrelouis.com/programs/44.1k%20-%20soundscheme%20for%20windows.exe



Re: Blog post on Firefox 58.

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Yes I was getting at that in my last post as well. Its a pity that Mozilla could not allow windows sounds to be associated with events as they are in IE. However this subject seems to polarise the folk here into the do not need sounds types and they are essential to me types, and much like the ribbon menus, the different voices and synths all of these things are personal issues. Sadly Microsoft will not give us a choice about menus, and Mozilla has removed the choice in their browser.
These are retrograde steps.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Clare Page" <clare.page@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, January 19, 2018 11:16 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.


Hi !

I have used the Windows sound scheme for which a link was posted below for a ong time now, both with Internet Explorer and with Firefox, and I can report from my own experience that this sound scheme only adds browser sounds to Firefox if the Navigational Sounds Firefox add-on is used. Therefore, as I gather that Navigational Sounds doesn’t work with Firefox Quantum, the sound scheme won’t restore sounds in Firefox 57 or later, even though you will get other sounds for the rest of Windows if you use the scheme.

Sorry this doesn’t help people who prefer sounds in their web browsers, but I felt I should point out that the sound scheme mentioned below will not solve the problem of there being no sounds in the newest versions of Firefox and no possibility of installing Navigational Sounds as an add-on for those new versions.

Bye for now!

From Clare



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Robert Kingett
Sent: jeudi 18 janvier 2018 16:14
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.



I did some digging for you! This is why I love blind people so much. Giving opinions rather than answering your question, to the person who is looking for the sound scheme. It's not worth hearing all opinions, much less explain it to a super blindy. :, don't bother with them. They are not worth a reply. Anyway, I did some digging for you and, although, it is not browser focused, it may help. It is a sound scheme for windows that covers the whole operating system, even web browsers. The link is below.

http://onj3.andrelouis.com/programs/44.1k%20-%20soundscheme%20for%20windows.exe


Re: Portable version degrading

Gene
 

Sometimes things happen and you never know why.  Unless your hard drive is developing bad sectors, I doubt people will have possible explanations. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, January 19, 2018 9:58 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Portable version degrading

The problem with this discussion is my portable version is on an
internal hard drive.  So why is this degrading?

Nothing else on this drive has any trouble and I've checked, and there's
no file system errors nor any fragmenting.


Roger












On 1/19/2018 8:28 AM, Antony Stone wrote:
> USB drives do need to be unmounted before removing them, otherwise there is
> the risk of file system corruption.  Precisely the same is true for external
> hard drives, floppy disks, or any other writeable medium you can temporarily
> attach to a computer.
>
> I've never seen a USB thumb drive fall apart, and I think they're considerably
> more robust than floppy disks, which is basically what they replaced.  You can
> also drop them on the floor with a good deal more confidence of them working
> afterwards than if you drop an external hard disk.
>
> Yes, they're vulnerable to static electricity; that's why most of them have
> plastic caps to put over the contacts or a slider to retract the contacts into
> the body.
>
> My experience is that if they're treated reasonably they work very well.  If
> they're mistreated they'll give as many problems as any other mistreated
> storage medium.
>
>
> Antony.
>
> On Friday 19 January 2018 at 15:17:36, tonea.ctr.morrow@... wrote:
>
>> A few years back, I had a job for three years where people brought me their
>> files on USB thumb drives. These things are horrible in terms of
>> long-life. The really do have to be unmounted prior to removing from the
>> computer or they get corrupted. They physically fall apart easily. And,
>> the hardware inside seems to be more vulnerable to static electricity data
>> loss than other portable drives, certainly more vulnerable than most
>> computers.
>>
>>
>>
>> I would think that would be the problem.
>>
>>
>>
>> Tonea
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>
>> I've noticed over the past couple years that my portable install of nvda
>> will sometimes degrade or get a bit corrupted over time all by itself
>> while the installed version is always stable as a rock.  Does anyone know
>> why this is and is there any way to prevent this from happening?  I use
>> the portable copy to test a couple add ons and if the portable version
>> corrupts, it can make it appear that the add on is defective or has a bug
>> while it really doesn't.  Deleting the portable copy and making a new one
>> will clear it up.  I also notice a few functions of nvda either don't work
>> at all or nvda gets very sluggish in responsiveness and this all gets back
>> to normal after a complete flush and remake of the portable version.  As I
>> say, this never has happened at all with my installed copy on the same
>> computer.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Roger





Re: Portable version degrading

Gene
 

Thumb drives aren't reliable enough to use as permanent backup but I've kept files on them for long periods of time with no problems.  I've had the same files elsewhere as well but floppy drives are reasonably reliable.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, January 19, 2018 8:28 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Portable version degrading

USB drives do need to be unmounted before removing them, otherwise there is
the risk of file system corruption.  Precisely the same is true for external
hard drives, floppy disks, or any other writeable medium you can temporarily
attach to a computer.

I've never seen a USB thumb drive fall apart, and I think they're considerably
more robust than floppy disks, which is basically what they replaced.  You can
also drop them on the floor with a good deal more confidence of them working
afterwards than if you drop an external hard disk.

Yes, they're vulnerable to static electricity; that's why most of them have
plastic caps to put over the contacts or a slider to retract the contacts into
the body.

My experience is that if they're treated reasonably they work very well.  If
they're mistreated they'll give as many problems as any other mistreated
storage medium.


Antony.

On Friday 19 January 2018 at 15:17:36, tonea.ctr.morrow@... wrote:

> A few years back, I had a job for three years where people brought me their
> files on USB thumb drives. These things are horrible in terms of
> long-life. The really do have to be unmounted prior to removing from the
> computer or they get corrupted. They physically fall apart easily. And,
> the hardware inside seems to be more vulnerable to static electricity data
> loss than other portable drives, certainly more vulnerable than most
> computers.
>
>
>
> I would think that would be the problem.
>
>
>
> Tonea
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> I've noticed over the past couple years that my portable install of nvda
> will sometimes degrade or get a bit corrupted over time all by itself
> while the installed version is always stable as a rock.  Does anyone know
> why this is and is there any way to prevent this from happening?  I use
> the portable copy to test a couple add ons and if the portable version
> corrupts, it can make it appear that the add on is defective or has a bug
> while it really doesn't.  Deleting the portable copy and making a new one
> will clear it up.  I also notice a few functions of nvda either don't work
> at all or nvda gets very sluggish in responsiveness and this all gets back
> to normal after a complete flush and remake of the portable version.  As I
> say, this never has happened at all with my installed copy on the same
> computer.
>
>
>
>
>
> Roger

--
#define SIX 1+5
#define NINE 8+1

int main() {
    printf("%d\n", SIX * NINE);
}
- thanks to ECB for bringing this to my attention

                                                   Please reply to the list;
                                                         please *don't* CC me.



Re: Working with Libreoffice is so slow

V Stuart Foote
 

On Fri, Jan 19, 2018 at 12:33 am, Brian's Mail list account wrote:
Is there a version of the suggested version for use as a portable app, as
this is what I'm using it for.
Brian

 Yes, both 5.3.7 and 5.4.4 are available as PortableApps.com framework PAFs  (for Windows), an English build and a larger All "supported" languages build.

5.3.7
http://download.documentfoundation.org/libreoffice/portable/5.3.7

5.4.4
http://download.documentfoundation.org/libreoffice/portable/5.4.4

I have no personal experience with using these NVDA, let us know


Re: Portable version degrading

Roger Stewart
 

The problem with this discussion is my portable version is on an internal hard drive. So why is this degrading?

Nothing else on this drive has any trouble and I've checked, and there's no file system errors nor any fragmenting.


Roger

On 1/19/2018 8:28 AM, Antony Stone wrote:
USB drives do need to be unmounted before removing them, otherwise there is
the risk of file system corruption. Precisely the same is true for external
hard drives, floppy disks, or any other writeable medium you can temporarily
attach to a computer.

I've never seen a USB thumb drive fall apart, and I think they're considerably
more robust than floppy disks, which is basically what they replaced. You can
also drop them on the floor with a good deal more confidence of them working
afterwards than if you drop an external hard disk.

Yes, they're vulnerable to static electricity; that's why most of them have
plastic caps to put over the contacts or a slider to retract the contacts into
the body.

My experience is that if they're treated reasonably they work very well. If
they're mistreated they'll give as many problems as any other mistreated
storage medium.


Antony.

On Friday 19 January 2018 at 15:17:36, tonea.ctr.morrow@... wrote:

A few years back, I had a job for three years where people brought me their
files on USB thumb drives. These things are horrible in terms of
long-life. The really do have to be unmounted prior to removing from the
computer or they get corrupted. They physically fall apart easily. And,
the hardware inside seems to be more vulnerable to static electricity data
loss than other portable drives, certainly more vulnerable than most
computers.



I would think that would be the problem.



Tonea



-----Original Message-----

I've noticed over the past couple years that my portable install of nvda
will sometimes degrade or get a bit corrupted over time all by itself
while the installed version is always stable as a rock. Does anyone know
why this is and is there any way to prevent this from happening? I use
the portable copy to test a couple add ons and if the portable version
corrupts, it can make it appear that the add on is defective or has a bug
while it really doesn't. Deleting the portable copy and making a new one
will clear it up. I also notice a few functions of nvda either don't work
at all or nvda gets very sluggish in responsiveness and this all gets back
to normal after a complete flush and remake of the portable version. As I
say, this never has happened at all with my installed copy on the same
computer.





Roger


Re: Portable version degrading

Rob Hudson
 

tonea.ctr.morrow@... wrote:
Unless buried deep enough to not be subject to the heat, the record would be destroyed over time from heat and cold cycle, in my opinion. If buried deep enough to be consistent in temperature, then it becomes accessible to water damage. If you have a link to information on such burials, that would be an interesting read.

Sorry, I don't. It was just something I heard on, I think, the Kommando radio show, about 20 years ago. It stuck in my mind, however, and I still remember the reference.
Another interesting tidbit I heard was archeologists trying to get voice fragments off pottery shards.
http://www.ohgizmo.com/2006/02/20/5000-year-old-recordings-caught-on-pottery/
I'm very fascinated by stuff like this. However, we're now venturing off grounds for this list, so I'll shut up, now.


Re: echo characters and words

Lino Morales
 

Yes Kevin. Hit NVDA number row 2 to toggle characters on and off and NVDA number row 3 to turn speaking of words on and off. HTH buddy.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Kevin
Sent: Friday, January 19, 2018 1:24 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] echo characters and words

 

Is this possible to do in NVDA using the latest

 

Email is golden !!!
Kevin Lee

 

 


Re: Portable version degrading

tonea.ctr.morrow@...
 

LOL!

 

I agree that S.D. cards are a better choice.

 

As for vinyl, the recording is so big that you can both see and feel it on the media. You can’t do that with any traditional computer format—I think that is what give it such stability. Small distortions to the recording don’t impede replay.

 

With regard to burying vinyl recordings in the desert: grains of sand would scratch out the recordings, so I assume you meant they are protectively wrapped and then buried. I still think that might not be such a good way to store vinyl. I remember in the 1970’s watching my mom heat a record in the oven and then lay it over a cup to create a vinyl bowl. Unless buried deep enough to not be subject to the heat, the record would be destroyed over time from heat and cold cycle, in my opinion. If buried deep enough to be consistent in temperature, then it becomes accessible to water damage. If you have a link to information on such burials, that would be an interesting read.

 

All in all though, I agree and think Vinyl has proved itself better at surviving than any computer format.  (grinning)

 

Tonea

 

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Rob Hudson
Sent: Friday, January 19, 2018 8:45 AM

I put my portable NVDA installs on S  D cards and use a ten dollar USB card reader. The only way to hurt a card like that is to drop it in water, I guess. And most computers nowadays come with card readers built in to them.

If you're willing to pay a little more, you can buy USB flash drives in protective, rubberized or metal housings. These are a great deal sturdier than the cheapies you can get for a few bucks. Not only do those fall apart easily, but they will go corrupt faster. Even if you unmount them using the "Safey Remove Hardware"

item on windows or the

"umount"

option in Linux. Solid state memory only has a limited number of reads/writes.

The least corruptible data medium I've heard of is vinyl records. I've heard you can actually listen to a vinyl record by spinning it and using a pine needle. They have buried some of our worlds most important speeches and such in the desert on vinyl. I'm not sure what it is about that medium specifically that makes it better suited for long term storage, though.


Re: Reading messages in action center, settings, and so on.

Lino Morales
 

Well to read messages in the Actions Center is rather simple. Just hit WIN plus A and tab to the list of notifications. If you need more details press enter. If you just want to simply clear them all tab to the clear all button.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2018 5:17 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Reading messages in action center, settings, and so on.

 

I don't know but you might have saved a lot of time by using screen review or object navigation to skim the screen. 

 

As far as messages in the actual center, I don't know about Windows 10.  My recollection about Windows 7 is that you can't read messages either at all or well enough to be useful.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: John Isige

Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2018 4:03 PM

Subject: [nvda] Reading messages in action center, settings, and so on.

 

Hi all. Is there a way to read messages in things like action center and
setup in Windows 10? I have Windows App Essentials, latest stable
installed. Let me describe what I'm talking about, because I think that
will help.


Today I saw in the system tray that "actions are needed". So I opened it
up. It opened up Windows Defender. Windows Defender said I needed to
check for updates. But the only way I found that out was by using NVDA-b
to read the entire screen, so I had to listen to a lot of extra stuff
first. Is there a quicker way to find and read those kinds of messages?


 


Re: Portable version degrading

Rob Hudson
 

Antony Stone <antony.stone@...> wrote:
I've never seen a USB thumb drive fall apart, and I think they're considerably
more robust than floppy disks, which is basically what they replaced. You can
also drop them on the floor with a good deal more confidence of them working
afterwards than if you drop an external hard disk.
I put my portable NVDA installs on S D cards and use a ten dollar USB card reader. The only way to hurt a card like that is to drop it in water, I guess. And most computers nowadays come with card readers built in to them.
If you're willing to pay a little more, you can buy USB flash drives in protective, rubberized or metal housings. These are a great deal sturdier than the cheapies you can get for a few bucks. Not only do those fall apart easily, but they will go corrupt faster. Even if you unmount them using the
"Safey Remove Hardware"
item on windows or the
"umount"
option in Linux. Solid state memory only has a limited number of reads/writes.
The least corruptible data medium I've heard of is vinyl records. I've heard you can actually listen to a vinyl record by spinning it and using a pine needle. They have buried some of our worlds most important speeches and such in the desert on vinyl. I'm not sure what it is about that medium specifically that makes it better suited for long term storage, though.


Re: Portable version degrading

Antony Stone
 

USB drives do need to be unmounted before removing them, otherwise there is
the risk of file system corruption. Precisely the same is true for external
hard drives, floppy disks, or any other writeable medium you can temporarily
attach to a computer.

I've never seen a USB thumb drive fall apart, and I think they're considerably
more robust than floppy disks, which is basically what they replaced. You can
also drop them on the floor with a good deal more confidence of them working
afterwards than if you drop an external hard disk.

Yes, they're vulnerable to static electricity; that's why most of them have
plastic caps to put over the contacts or a slider to retract the contacts into
the body.

My experience is that if they're treated reasonably they work very well. If
they're mistreated they'll give as many problems as any other mistreated
storage medium.


Antony.

On Friday 19 January 2018 at 15:17:36, tonea.ctr.morrow@... wrote:

A few years back, I had a job for three years where people brought me their
files on USB thumb drives. These things are horrible in terms of
long-life. The really do have to be unmounted prior to removing from the
computer or they get corrupted. They physically fall apart easily. And,
the hardware inside seems to be more vulnerable to static electricity data
loss than other portable drives, certainly more vulnerable than most
computers.



I would think that would be the problem.



Tonea



-----Original Message-----

I've noticed over the past couple years that my portable install of nvda
will sometimes degrade or get a bit corrupted over time all by itself
while the installed version is always stable as a rock. Does anyone know
why this is and is there any way to prevent this from happening? I use
the portable copy to test a couple add ons and if the portable version
corrupts, it can make it appear that the add on is defective or has a bug
while it really doesn't. Deleting the portable copy and making a new one
will clear it up. I also notice a few functions of nvda either don't work
at all or nvda gets very sluggish in responsiveness and this all gets back
to normal after a complete flush and remake of the portable version. As I
say, this never has happened at all with my installed copy on the same
computer.





Roger
--
#define SIX 1+5
#define NINE 8+1

int main() {
printf("%d\n", SIX * NINE);
}
- thanks to ECB for bringing this to my attention

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.


Portable version degrading

tonea.ctr.morrow@...
 

A few years back, I had a job for three years where people brought me their files on USB thumb drives. These things are horrible in terms of long-life. The really do have to be unmounted prior to removing from the computer or they get corrupted. They physically fall apart easily. And, the hardware inside seems to be more vulnerable to static electricity data loss than other portable drives, certainly more vulnerable than most computers.

 

I would think that would be the problem.

 

Tonea

 

-----Original Message-----

I've noticed over the past couple years that my portable install of nvda will sometimes degrade or get a bit corrupted over time all by itself while the installed version is always stable as a rock.  Does anyone know why this is and is there any way to prevent this from happening?  I use the portable copy to test a couple add ons and if the portable version corrupts, it can make it appear that the add on is defective or has a bug while it really doesn't.  Deleting the portable copy and making a new one will clear it up.  I also notice a few functions of nvda either don't work at all or nvda gets very sluggish in responsiveness and this all gets back to normal after a complete flush and remake of the portable version.  As I say, this never has happened at all with my installed copy on the same computer.

 

 

Roger

 


Re: CHM, a.k.a. Microsoft Help files

tonea.ctr.morrow@...
 

You are my hero of the morning! Thank you Chris! This tells me the CHM skeleton is accessible, even if cumbersom in its accessibility. Now I can go back to the software people and be more firm.

 

My department of the FAA develops software for different government offices. We, as a developer, have moved away from CHM. But, sometimes we get customers who want that format for their own reasons. While I might have to tell our people that they can’t use a skin to make it pretty, I can at least confirm that we can offer it as an 508-accessible format.

 

Sorry it took me so long to get back. I was in meetings and will be in meetings almost all of next week. But, better to say this late than not at all: Thank you!

 

Tonea

 

---Original Message---

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Chris Mullins
Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2018 6:06 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] CHM, a.k.a. Microsoft Help files

 

Hi Tonea

I found a chm file on my machine and opened it.  On entry, I was placed in the Contents list and used arrow keys to traverse it.  When I found a topic I wanted help on I pressed f6.  This moved me to the help topic details.  I used arrow keys to move around the help topic window. From here I switched into screen review mode and located the following gbuttons

Hide Print Options Search Contents Favorites       

 

I could access these buttons via review cursor then use NVDA +Numpad 8 to  move the mouse pointer , then activated button using numpad 8 to simulate a mouse click.  I also found that alt+o opens a context menu containing the following:

Hide Tabs

Back

Forward

Home

Stop

Refresh

Internet Options...

Print...   

 

Some of these are probably equivalent to the header items you  could not access.  Alt+s also opened up the search function which was also accessible.

 

HTH

Chris