Date   

Re: Anti Virus Program

 

The issue I had was the same with another blogger I work with.

With the limited contact info, the support and non responce from security software manufacturers we can probably assume that they don't care about access or wish it, and don't care about specialised software for us either or anything.

So its a hope and see if it will work.

Windows defender being mssee, maybe, but find an alternitive please that works, is accessable, has good support and doesn't become bad at the drop of a hat and have less false positives and you may as well kiss a pole.

Sad but true.

On 10/03/2018 4:29 a.m., Jaffar Sidek wrote:
I said efficient, not good or perfect.  I do nnot want to debate about the good or bad of one anti-virus program above the other. I am just speaking from my personal observation which no one is forced to take on board.  I use Windows defender, my pc is protected against threats, that's good enough for me.


On 9/3/2018 3:42 PM, Shaun Everiss wrote:
On that note, what steps can we do to reduce false positives exactly.

Issue, just about every blind related thing bgt excluded since that can't be helped as such because of its design is being flagged as a virus, excluding things does help, but there are old vb6 programs saying this, is there anything say a user can do, ie create an exclude list of things they can share, or have some dictionary of programs or something one could upload somewhere, there are just so many false alarms.




On 9/03/2018 7:13 p.m., Jaffar Sidek wrote:
Hi. Windows defender is efficient enough these days.  Avg has no accessible value, at least not to my knowledge.  Cheers!


On 9/3/2018 10:14 AM, Andrea Sherry wrote:
tried free version of AVG. Setup was difficult and I was not able to control anything the program did after installation.

Is there anything better I could try?

Andrea



.




.


Re: Email clients for windows 7 32 bits, anny recommendation?

Fernando Apan
 

Hi all.

First, thanks for all your responces.

What actually happens with my gmail account and thunderbird in my 32 bit machine, is that I can not even sign in to my account. When I compleet the whole proces of configuring my account, it redirect me to the gmail page where I should sign in and authorise thunderbird as my Email client, but when I heat enter in the website where it says continue button, nothing happens. The website says something like: give your gmail credentials and sign in to your gmail account to authorise thunderbird.

On the other hand, when I read my gmail imbox from my iPhone I get a message that says something like: revew this sign in that was locked for your own safety. So, what I asume is that gMaile is not letting thunderbird to acces my account, don't know why, because as I sayd, in my windows 7 64 machine is still possible.

What are your suggestions?

Thanks in advance.


Fernando Apan.


El 09/03/2018 a las 03:13 p.m., Gene escribió:

You can find the version with alt h, then type a.  If the version automatically updates, it is, presumably the latest one.  If you don't have it set to automatically update, then it could be an old version. 
 
But I don't know why the program doesn't connect.  What happens when you try to send and receive messages?  Do you get error messages?  What do they say?  If the program works on one machine, it should work on the other machine.  there may be something wrong with your installation or there may be some other problem.  You could try other programs but it might first be best to try to see if we can solve the problems you are having with this program.  I'm not sure how to go about that.  Those with the program may have suggestions.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2018 12:27 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Email clients for windows 7 32 bits, anny recommendation?

Hello Gene! Sincerely, I don't remember what version is. I haven't used this client for a long time.


Re: NVDA chasing Outlook 365

Gary Bowers
 

You could try opening the message by pressing the ENTER key.

Gary B

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Cohn, Jonathan
Sent: Friday, March 9, 2018 4:22 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] NVDA chasing Outlook 365

Hello,



I have recreated this situation but not done any debugging.



NVDA 2018.1

Outlook 365

Windows 7 enterprise



1. Open Outlook.
2. Open a message and read it with numpad-+

Switch back to Inbox listing with alt-tab

Switch to calendar tab with control-2



At this point Outlook stops responding. I won’t be able to look at this further today, but besides simplifying down to not opening a message, what other actions do I need to do before submitting a ticket?



How do I turn on debug log as I know that will be useful. Are additional details about versions required?



Thanks,



Jonathan Cohn

American Institutes for Research – Assessments

Web Accessibility specialist


NVDA chasing Outlook 365

Jonathan COHN
 

Hello,

 

I have recreated this situation but not done any debugging.

 

NVDA 2018.1

Outlook 365

Windows 7 enterprise

 

  1. Open Outlook.
  2. Open a message and read it with numpad-+

Switch back to Inbox listing with alt-tab

Switch to calendar tab with control-2

 

At this point Outlook stops responding. I won’t be able to look at this further today, but besides simplifying down to not opening a message, what other actions do I need to do before submitting a ticket?

 

How do I turn on debug log as I know that will be useful. Are additional details about versions required?

 

Thanks,

 

Jonathan Cohn

American Institutes for Research – Assessments

Web Accessibility specialist

 


Re: Email clients for windows 7 32 bits, anny recommendation?

Gene
 

----- Original Message -----
From: The Wolf
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2018 1:40 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Email clients for windows 7 32 bits, anny recommendation?

can I et the minue version?


On 3/9/2018 5:35 AM, Gene wrote:
Is this the ribbon or menu version?  If someone wants the older menu version, it is important that they not install the ribbon version.  You can't just uninstall it and then install the menu version later.  I believe you have to remove one or more entries from the registry first.  So unless you know what version you are downloading and which one you want, don't install a version without knowing.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2018 1:37 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Email clients for windows 7 32 bits, anny recommendation?

Hello everyone!
I would use Windows Live Mail when I was using Windows 7, so I can help you. Click here to download this installation package.
 
Cheers,
Florian


Re: Email clients for windows 7 32 bits, anny recommendation?

Gene
 

You can find the version with alt h, then type a.  If the version automatically updates, it is, presumably the latest one.  If you don't have it set to automatically update, then it could be an old version. 
 
But I don't know why the program doesn't connect.  What happens when you try to send and receive messages?  Do you get error messages?  What do they say?  If the program works on one machine, it should work on the other machine.  there may be something wrong with your installation or there may be some other problem.  You could try other programs but it might first be best to try to see if we can solve the problems you are having with this program.  I'm not sure how to go about that.  Those with the program may have suggestions.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2018 12:27 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Email clients for windows 7 32 bits, anny recommendation?

Hello Gene! Sincerely, I don't remember what version is. I haven't used this client for a long time.


Re: Email clients for windows 7 32 bits, anny recommendation?

 

can I et the minue version?


On 3/9/2018 5:35 AM, Gene wrote:
Is this the ribbon or menu version?  If someone wants the older menu version, it is important that they not install the ribbon version.  You can't just uninstall it and then install the menu version later.  I believe you have to remove one or more entries from the registry first.  So unless you know what version you are downloading and which one you want, don't install a version without knowing.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2018 1:37 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Email clients for windows 7 32 bits, anny recommendation?

Hello everyone!
I would use Windows Live Mail when I was using Windows 7, so I can help you. Click here to download this installation package.
 
Cheers,
Florian


Re: Email clients for windows 7 32 bits, anny recommendation?

 

is this ribon minue or older version?



On 3/9/2018 12:37 AM, Florian Ionașcu wrote:
Hello everyone!
I would use Windows Live Mail when I was using Windows 7, so I can help you. Click here to download this installation package.
 
Cheers,
Florian


Re: where can I get an older version of NVDA?

Lino Morales
 

Why do you want an older version? Just curious. If you still want it I hope someone can give the URL on the NV Access site assuming that 2017.4 is still up their.

 

Lino Morales

 

From: Chris Judd
Sent: Friday, March 9, 2018 12:32 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] where can I get an older version of NVDA?

 

Hi all,

 

Today, I accidently updated to the latest version of NVDA.  Is there a place I can go to download the version before this one?

Chris

 

 


Re: Email clients for windows 7 32 bits, anny recommendation?

Florian Ionașcu
 

Hello Gene! Sincerely, I don't remember what version is. I haven't used this client for a long time.


Re: Anti Virus Program

Gene
 

You keep saying the user is almost always the vector.  that is not correct.  the user is often the vector.  If malicious web sites couldn't infect machines without the user doing anything except going to the site, if hacked advertising, which is becoming an increasing problem even on very reputable sites, couldn't infect your computer unless you did something first, then people who were careful wouldn't need antimalware programs.  Not to have some protection is a bad idea. 
 

Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2018 10:47 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Anti Virus Program

I think the main issue here is that every anti virus solution lulls the user
into thinking, I don't care, the anti virus will protect me, but it wont as
all of them are reactive. they cannot protect you from something unknown
unless it uses obvious code to do it and it is this last fact, ie they look
for common hacks that causes all the false positives, particularly on access
software.
 I am really surprised at Mozilla falling for this one, by attempting to
sandbox almost all of the inner workings of Firefox and having to re invent
the wheel for access software. This in my view simply stimulates people to
hack the code, or use access software as the vector, but then that would
only infect a very small number of machines.
 Most malware needs to be able to compromise your machine unknown to you so
you can pass it on, and also not let you see it so they have time to exploit
the control or snooping they have.
 If you presume you have very little protection you will I hope not be so
cavalier about what sites you go to in case they are infected. Its nearly
always the user who is the vector. We are entering a time where most of the
good exploits are known and patched, so the user is the only part of a
system you cannot install anti virus on!

Sorry but that is my view. All those people I have seen who have got a
mangled unusable system have done it to themselves, maybe not knowingly, but
we do need to educate people  that if you store your life online, its just
as bad to go to dodgy neighbourhoods virtually on your machine as it is to
walk into a no go area of a city at night and wonder why some moped riding
dork nicks your phone.
 Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Nimer Jaber" <nimerjaber1@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2018 4:24 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Anti Virus Program


> Hello,
>
> Many tech experts now suggest that anti-virus programs should not be used,
> that Windows Security is good enough for most users, and that using other
> security software actually could leave your machine more vulnerable to
> attack. this is for home users, not for enterprise users, but for the
> average home user, the built-in security software is good enough, along
> with a router firewall and the one built into the OS, and proper surfing
> habbits such as not clicking on links and opening attachments in e-mails
> you do not know and trust. I don't know if I am ready to adopt this advice
> yet, but this is what many tech experts are recommending now.
>
> As for me, I recommend Sophos. Sophos is focused on the enterprise market,
> and they have a very robust home version at this time that is nearly fully
> accessible from their web interface. it is a program i recommend highly.
> It
> has also been rated pretty highly by independent lab testing
> methodologies.
>
> Thanks.
>
> On Fri, Mar 9, 2018 at 9:18 AM Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
> <bglists@...> wrote:
>
>> Actually, I was being sarcastic about the only way to stop getting
>> infected.
>> A never used machine is very safe indeed.
>>
>> Brian
>>
>> bglists@...
>> Sent via blueyonder.
>> Please address personal email to:-
>> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
>> in the display name field.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Gene" <gsasner@...>
>> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>> Sent: Friday, March 09, 2018 12:48 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Anti Virus Program
>>
>>
>> Turn the machine off?  When?  When you go to a web site with hacked
>> advertising and your machine has already been infected with no indication
>> of
>> it to the user?  Or if you absentmindedly do something you shouldn't do?
>> I'm not infallible.  Once, I wasn't thinking about what I was doing and I
>> followed a link that came in a message that looked as though it came from
>> someone I knew.  I just wasn't thinking at the moment.  Avast wouldn't
>> let
>> me connect with the web site.  What would have happened if I wasn't
>> running
>> an antivirus program?  Who knows?  I don't recall ever doing something
>> like
>> that before or since.  But I just wasn't thinking one time in a lot of
>> years
>> of computer use.
>>
>> You have to take actions to be infected in many cases, but there are
>> cases,
>> and their number is growing, where you don't.  You can greatly reduce the
>> danger by using a JAVA script blocker or by turning scripts off except on
>> sites where they are necessary.  But just saying turn the computer off
>> only
>> works in cases where malware wants you to click something like a yes or
>> ok
>> button or no button on a web page.  It doesn't matter what button you
>> click.
>> Clicking any button will cause the malware to install.  So, in those
>> cases,
>> just shutting down the computer will stop you from being infected.  But
>> if
>> it were that easy not to become infected, these antimalware companies
>> wouldn't exist.
>>
>> Gene
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>
>> From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
>> Sent: Friday, March 09, 2018 4:05 AM
>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Anti Virus Program
>>
>>
>> Yes take the cheap route, just tirm he computer off and leave it off,
>> very
>> safe and costs nothing.. grin
>>  I do feel we are losing our way. Most of the exploits are aimed at
>> people
>> not exploits.
>>  Obviously they will need to patch holes, but expecting anti virus
>> systems
>> to protect from everything is really impossible in my view. The more they
>> try to find everything the more they slow the computer down and trigger
>> false positives, and of course since everyone except Microsoft seem to
>> have
>> designed their front ends inaccessibly, there is no hope for us.
>>  That is my reading of the current situation. I'll let you know when my
>> completely unprotected  amd chipped xp machines get clobbered. Probably
>> not
>> for a long while unless I'm very unlucky.
>>  Brian
>>
>> bglists@...
>> Sent via blueyonder.
>> Please address personal email to:-
>> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
>> in the display name field.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Shaun Everiss" <sm.everiss@...>
>> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>> Sent: Friday, March 09, 2018 4:20 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Anti Virus Program
>>
>>
>> > You know this has popped up so much and I have decided that there just
>> > isn't anymore.
>> >
>> > Avast could have been a great program.
>> >
>> > Nod32 was accessible up to a point, it aint now, vipre maybe, panda
>> > antivirus maybe.
>> >
>> > Sophos.
>> >
>> > To be honest the fact so many lagit programs are being mistargeted,
>> > forcing users like me to have to basically leave vast parts of the os
>> open
>> > to attack is a problem.
>> >
>> > Some users have gone so far to exclude their drives from scanning and
>> that
>> > does in deed fix things.
>> >
>> > On my new system I am just going to have to exclude my backup drive
>> > from
>> > scanning because I just don't trust what windows defender will do.
>> >
>> > As for the rest, I will have to restructure my drive, and exclude all
>> > audio games, all portable apps, all apps, all user installed programs
>> > the
>> > only things I will leave with programs in it are windows and ms
>> > programs
>> > and my downloads folder and maybe make a folder for unprocessed files
>> > and
>> > exclude that.
>> >
>> > Basically to use my system securely I will have to exclude pritty much
>> > half my c drive in order to not run into problems.
>> >
>> > I may as well not use antivirus alltogether, but I have no choice,
>> > there
>> > are just to many false positives to handle.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On 9/03/2018 3:14 p.m., Andrea Sherry wrote:
>> >> tried free version of AVG. Setup was difficult and I was not able to
>> >> control anything the program did after installation.
>> >>
>> >> Is there anything better I could try?
>> >>
>> >> Andrea
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
> Cordially,
>
> Nimer Jaber
>
> My mission is to bring love and peace to everyone around me with all tools
> available to me.
> My core values are integrity, innovation, loyalty, excellence, and 100%
> personal responsibility.
>
> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
> by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
> criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
> up to you. Thanks.
>
> Registered Linux User 529141.
> http://counter.li.org/
>
> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
> and above, please click here:
> http://www.nvda-project.org
>
> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>
> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
> (218-606-0475) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly. Thank
> you, and have a great day!
>




Re: Braille support in Google Sheets with NVDA 2018.1 change release notes

Adriani Botez
 

I am with you Brian, I have just got the question if diagrams in MS Word would properly work with NVDA. If not, support for diagrams would not have been integrated in final release. If someone doubts that a function dows not work, than the user should test it before final release.


Best
Adriani

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Im Auftrag von Brian's
Mail list account via Groups.Io
Gesendet: Freitag, 9. März 2018 17:07
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [nvda] Braille support in Google Sheets with NVDA 2018.1 change
release notes

I find it quite funny that there are RC builds out there much advertised here,
and nobody spots problems, but due no doubt to Murphy's law, they all get
noticed on the release version. Both in this case on brailed support by the
looks of it.

You can't win really, can you? :-)

Brian

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Please address personal email to:-
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Davy Cuppens" <davycuppens@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2018 10:49 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Braille support in Google Sheets with NVDA 2018.1 change
release notes


So please delete the sentence in the release notes about early support while
users are reporting there is no support.
Otherwise users get wrong expectations.
Regards
Davy

Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPhone

Op 9 mrt. 2018 om 09:56 heeft Sylvie Duchateau
<sduchateau@...> het volgende geschreven:

Hello Quentin and all,
I have screen reader support enabled, braille support enabled in
Google docs.
Unfortunately, I still cannot find any option in the Google Sheets
settings, to enable Braille Support.
In their help section Google say:
"Turn on Braille support
1. Open a Docs file on your computer:
•Docs, Slides, or Drawings: Open the file in Google Chrome, Firefox,
Safari, or Internet Explorer.
•Sheets: Braille support in Sheets is available on Chrome OS with the
ChromeVox screen reader. Please make sure that you have the latest
versions of Chrome OS and ChromeVox. We’re working to add support for
other platforms and screen readers.
2. If you haven't already turned on screen reader support for the Docs
editors, press Ctrl + Alt + z (Windows) or ⌘ + Option + z (Mac).
3. In the Accessibility menu, select Settings.
4. Select Enable Braille support.
If you turn Braille support on in Docs, Sheets, Slides, or Drawings,
the setting applies whenever you sign in to any of these editors."
See:
https://support.google.com/docs/answer/6057417?co=GENIE.Platform%3DD
es
ktop&hl=en
On this page,
https://venturebeat.com/2018/01/09/google-adds-braille-support-to-shee
ts-magnifier-tool-to-slides-and-drawings/
they say:
"Braille displays can already be used to read and edit texts in Docs,
Slides, and Drawings. With the added support for Sheets, users will
now be able to read and edit cell contents, as well as navigate
between cells on a sheet. According to Google’s blog post, this will
only be available on Chrome OS with the ChromeVox screen reader, for
now. The company says it is working to add support for other platforms and
screen readers."
So I thought that with this announcement on what's new in NVDA, the
support would work, but it still does not here.
Thank you for any information you can find.
Best
Sylvie
Le 09/03/2018 à 06:16, Quentin Christensen a écrit :
Hi Sylvie,

I must admit I need to test this more myself, but reading:
https://support.google.com/docs/answer/6057417?co=GENIE.Platform%3DD
e
sktop&hl=en it indicates you need to enable screen reader support,
and then enable braille support as well in Google sheets itself. It
also gives a little info on using the routing keys on the display to
navigate.

Let me know whether that does or doesn't help!

Quentin.

On Fri, Mar 9, 2018 at 3:22 AM, Sylvie Duchateau
<sduchateau@...> wrote:
Hello Quentin and all,

Thanks for the good news on NVDA 2018.1.

While reading "what's new" in this version, I saw the following
statement:

"Early support for Google Sheets with Braille mode enabled. (#7935)"

What does it mean?
I could not get Braille to work in Google Sheets with this new version.
Thank you for your response.

Best

Sylvie
Le 08/03/2018 à 06:23, Quentin Christensen a écrit :
Hi everyone,

The first release of #NVDASR for 2018 is finally here. Links to
download and what's new in this release found at:

https://www.nvaccess.org/post/nvda-2018-1-now-available-for-
downloa
d/

While downloading, please consider helping us to continue our work
by making a single donation or becoming a monthly donor at
http://nvaccess.org/donate

NVDA is empowering the blind across the world. Check out how in our
recent video: https://youtu.be/Ks7AwV_uxO0 The first release of
#NVDASR for 2018 is finally here. Links to download and what's new
in this release found at:

https://www.nvaccess.org/post/nvda-2018-1-now-available-for-
downloa
d/

While downloading, please consider helping us to continue our work
by making a single donation or becoming a monthly donor at
http://nvaccess.org/donate

NVDA is empowering the blind across the world. Check out how in our
recent video: https://youtu.be/Ks7AwV_uxO0


--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess


--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess


Tray messages appearing when not expected

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I just downloaded a recent master snap, and every so often, while editing an emial or reading one I'll suddenly here Dropbox up to date. Anyone know why?
Is this some new feature I'm unaware of?
Brian

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Re: Anti Virus Program

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Oh dear.
chuckle. we shall agree to disagree in the spirit of the list.
Brian


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----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <gsasner@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2018 4:27 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Anti Virus Program


But considering that one way to prevent infection under certain conditions is to turn the machine off, your message appeared to be discussing that method. Keep the machine off or don't use the machine, might have expressed the idea. But turn the machine off, given certain conditions on Internet sites where that is the procedure prescribed to prevent infection, as I discussed in my message, is ambigguous.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2018 10:18 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Anti Virus Program


Actually, I was being sarcastic about the only way to stop getting infected.
A never used machine is very safe indeed.

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <gsasner@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2018 12:48 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Anti Virus Program


Turn the machine off? When? When you go to a web site with hacked
advertising and your machine has already been infected with no indication of
it to the user? Or if you absentmindedly do something you shouldn't do?
I'm not infallible. Once, I wasn't thinking about what I was doing and I
followed a link that came in a message that looked as though it came from
someone I knew. I just wasn't thinking at the moment. Avast wouldn't let
me connect with the web site. What would have happened if I wasn't running
an antivirus program? Who knows? I don't recall ever doing something like
that before or since. But I just wasn't thinking one time in a lot of years
of computer use.

You have to take actions to be infected in many cases, but there are cases,
and their number is growing, where you don't. You can greatly reduce the
danger by using a JAVA script blocker or by turning scripts off except on
sites where they are necessary. But just saying turn the computer off only
works in cases where malware wants you to click something like a yes or ok
button or no button on a web page. It doesn't matter what button you click.
Clicking any button will cause the malware to install. So, in those cases,
just shutting down the computer will stop you from being infected. But if
it were that easy not to become infected, these antimalware companies
wouldn't exist.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2018 4:05 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Anti Virus Program


Yes take the cheap route, just tirm he computer off and leave it off, very
safe and costs nothing.. grin
I do feel we are losing our way. Most of the exploits are aimed at people
not exploits.
Obviously they will need to patch holes, but expecting anti virus systems
to protect from everything is really impossible in my view. The more they
try to find everything the more they slow the computer down and trigger
false positives, and of course since everyone except Microsoft seem to have
designed their front ends inaccessibly, there is no hope for us.
That is my reading of the current situation. I'll let you know when my
completely unprotected amd chipped xp machines get clobbered. Probably not
for a long while unless I'm very unlucky.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Shaun Everiss" <@smeveriss>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2018 4:20 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Anti Virus Program


You know this has popped up so much and I have decided that there just
isn't anymore.

Avast could have been a great program.

Nod32 was accessible up to a point, it aint now, vipre maybe, panda
antivirus maybe.

Sophos.

To be honest the fact so many lagit programs are being mistargeted,
forcing users like me to have to basically leave vast parts of the os open
to attack is a problem.

Some users have gone so far to exclude their drives from scanning and that
does in deed fix things.

On my new system I am just going to have to exclude my backup drive from
scanning because I just don't trust what windows defender will do.

As for the rest, I will have to restructure my drive, and exclude all
audio games, all portable apps, all apps, all user installed programs the
only things I will leave with programs in it are windows and ms programs
and my downloads folder and maybe make a folder for unprocessed files and
exclude that.

Basically to use my system securely I will have to exclude pritty much
half my c drive in order to not run into problems.

I may as well not use antivirus alltogether, but I have no choice, there
are just to many false positives to handle.




On 9/03/2018 3:14 p.m., Andrea Sherry wrote:
tried free version of AVG. Setup was difficult and I was not able to
control anything the program did after installation.

Is there anything better I could try?

Andrea



Re: Anti Virus Program

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I think the main issue here is that every anti virus solution lulls the user into thinking, I don't care, the anti virus will protect me, but it wont as all of them are reactive. they cannot protect you from something unknown unless it uses obvious code to do it and it is this last fact, ie they look for common hacks that causes all the false positives, particularly on access software.
I am really surprised at Mozilla falling for this one, by attempting to sandbox almost all of the inner workings of Firefox and having to re invent the wheel for access software. This in my view simply stimulates people to hack the code, or use access software as the vector, but then that would only infect a very small number of machines.
Most malware needs to be able to compromise your machine unknown to you so you can pass it on, and also not let you see it so they have time to exploit the control or snooping they have.
If you presume you have very little protection you will I hope not be so cavalier about what sites you go to in case they are infected. Its nearly always the user who is the vector. We are entering a time where most of the good exploits are known and patched, so the user is the only part of a system you cannot install anti virus on!

Sorry but that is my view. All those people I have seen who have got a mangled unusable system have done it to themselves, maybe not knowingly, but we do need to educate people that if you store your life online, its just as bad to go to dodgy neighbourhoods virtually on your machine as it is to walk into a no go area of a city at night and wonder why some moped riding dork nicks your phone.
Brian

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Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Nimer Jaber" <nimerjaber1@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2018 4:24 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Anti Virus Program


Hello,

Many tech experts now suggest that anti-virus programs should not be used,
that Windows Security is good enough for most users, and that using other
security software actually could leave your machine more vulnerable to
attack. this is for home users, not for enterprise users, but for the
average home user, the built-in security software is good enough, along
with a router firewall and the one built into the OS, and proper surfing
habbits such as not clicking on links and opening attachments in e-mails
you do not know and trust. I don't know if I am ready to adopt this advice
yet, but this is what many tech experts are recommending now.

As for me, I recommend Sophos. Sophos is focused on the enterprise market,
and they have a very robust home version at this time that is nearly fully
accessible from their web interface. it is a program i recommend highly. It
has also been rated pretty highly by independent lab testing methodologies.

Thanks.

On Fri, Mar 9, 2018 at 9:18 AM Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
<bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:

Actually, I was being sarcastic about the only way to stop getting
infected.
A never used machine is very safe indeed.

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <gsasner@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2018 12:48 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Anti Virus Program


Turn the machine off? When? When you go to a web site with hacked
advertising and your machine has already been infected with no indication
of
it to the user? Or if you absentmindedly do something you shouldn't do?
I'm not infallible. Once, I wasn't thinking about what I was doing and I
followed a link that came in a message that looked as though it came from
someone I knew. I just wasn't thinking at the moment. Avast wouldn't let
me connect with the web site. What would have happened if I wasn't running
an antivirus program? Who knows? I don't recall ever doing something like
that before or since. But I just wasn't thinking one time in a lot of
years
of computer use.

You have to take actions to be infected in many cases, but there are cases,
and their number is growing, where you don't. You can greatly reduce the
danger by using a JAVA script blocker or by turning scripts off except on
sites where they are necessary. But just saying turn the computer off only
works in cases where malware wants you to click something like a yes or ok
button or no button on a web page. It doesn't matter what button you
click.
Clicking any button will cause the malware to install. So, in those cases,
just shutting down the computer will stop you from being infected. But if
it were that easy not to become infected, these antimalware companies
wouldn't exist.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2018 4:05 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Anti Virus Program


Yes take the cheap route, just tirm he computer off and leave it off, very
safe and costs nothing.. grin
I do feel we are losing our way. Most of the exploits are aimed at people
not exploits.
Obviously they will need to patch holes, but expecting anti virus systems
to protect from everything is really impossible in my view. The more they
try to find everything the more they slow the computer down and trigger
false positives, and of course since everyone except Microsoft seem to have
designed their front ends inaccessibly, there is no hope for us.
That is my reading of the current situation. I'll let you know when my
completely unprotected amd chipped xp machines get clobbered. Probably not
for a long while unless I'm very unlucky.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Shaun Everiss" <@smeveriss>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2018 4:20 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Anti Virus Program


You know this has popped up so much and I have decided that there just
isn't anymore.

Avast could have been a great program.

Nod32 was accessible up to a point, it aint now, vipre maybe, panda
antivirus maybe.

Sophos.

To be honest the fact so many lagit programs are being mistargeted,
forcing users like me to have to basically leave vast parts of the os
open
to attack is a problem.

Some users have gone so far to exclude their drives from scanning and
that
does in deed fix things.

On my new system I am just going to have to exclude my backup drive from
scanning because I just don't trust what windows defender will do.

As for the rest, I will have to restructure my drive, and exclude all
audio games, all portable apps, all apps, all user installed programs the
only things I will leave with programs in it are windows and ms programs
and my downloads folder and maybe make a folder for unprocessed files and
exclude that.

Basically to use my system securely I will have to exclude pritty much
half my c drive in order to not run into problems.

I may as well not use antivirus alltogether, but I have no choice, there
are just to many false positives to handle.




On 9/03/2018 3:14 p.m., Andrea Sherry wrote:
tried free version of AVG. Setup was difficult and I was not able to
control anything the program did after installation.

Is there anything better I could try?

Andrea








--
Cordially,

Nimer Jaber

My mission is to bring love and peace to everyone around me with all tools
available to me.
My core values are integrity, innovation, loyalty, excellence, and 100%
personal responsibility.

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
up to you. Thanks.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
and above, please click here:
http://www.nvda-project.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
(218-606-0475) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly. Thank
you, and have a great day!


Re: Anti Virus Program

Nimer Jaber
 

I just got those links after a quick Google searc, but there are users on both sides of the issue... I have seen more and more tech and security experts leaning twards Windows Security to be adequate enough.

thanks.

On Fri, Mar 9, 2018 at 9:32 AM Antony Stone <antony.stone@...> wrote:
Hm, have you got any references for those comments "many tech experts now
suggest that anti-virus programs should not be used" and "using other security
software actually could leave your machine more vulnerable"?

That sounds interesting and quite significant - I'd like to read more
background about such opinions.


Thanks,


Antony.

On Friday 09 March 2018 at 17:24:47, Nimer Jaber wrote:

> Hello,
>
> Many tech experts now suggest that anti-virus programs should not be used,
> that Windows Security is good enough for most users, and that using other
> security software actually could leave your machine more vulnerable to
> attack. this is for home users, not for enterprise users, but for the
> average home user, the built-in security software is good enough, along
> with a router firewall and the one built into the OS, and proper surfing
> habbits such as not clicking on links and opening attachments in e-mails
> you do not know and trust. I don't know if I am ready to adopt this advice
> yet, but this is what many tech experts are recommending now.
>
> As for me, I recommend Sophos. Sophos is focused on the enterprise market,
> and they have a very robust home version at this time that is nearly fully
> accessible from their web interface. it is a program i recommend highly. It
> has also been rated pretty highly by independent lab testing methodologies.

--
Anyone that's normal doesn't really achieve much.

 - Mark Blair, Australian rocket engineer

                                                   Please reply to the list;
                                                         please *don't* CC me.



--
Cordially,

Nimer Jaber

My mission is to bring love and peace to everyone around me with all tools available to me.
My core values are integrity, innovation, loyalty, excellence, and 100% personal responsibility.

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
up to you. Thanks.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
and above, please click here:
http://www.nvda-project.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (218-606-0475) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly. Thank
you, and have a great day!


Re: Anti Virus Program

Nimer Jaber
 

On Fri, Mar 9, 2018 at 9:32 AM Antony Stone <antony.stone@...> wrote:
Hm, have you got any references for those comments "many tech experts now
suggest that anti-virus programs should not be used" and "using other security
software actually could leave your machine more vulnerable"?

That sounds interesting and quite significant - I'd like to read more
background about such opinions.


Thanks,


Antony.

On Friday 09 March 2018 at 17:24:47, Nimer Jaber wrote:

> Hello,
>
> Many tech experts now suggest that anti-virus programs should not be used,
> that Windows Security is good enough for most users, and that using other
> security software actually could leave your machine more vulnerable to
> attack. this is for home users, not for enterprise users, but for the
> average home user, the built-in security software is good enough, along
> with a router firewall and the one built into the OS, and proper surfing
> habbits such as not clicking on links and opening attachments in e-mails
> you do not know and trust. I don't know if I am ready to adopt this advice
> yet, but this is what many tech experts are recommending now.
>
> As for me, I recommend Sophos. Sophos is focused on the enterprise market,
> and they have a very robust home version at this time that is nearly fully
> accessible from their web interface. it is a program i recommend highly. It
> has also been rated pretty highly by independent lab testing methodologies.

--
Anyone that's normal doesn't really achieve much.

 - Mark Blair, Australian rocket engineer

                                                   Please reply to the list;
                                                         please *don't* CC me.



--
Cordially,

Nimer Jaber

My mission is to bring love and peace to everyone around me with all tools available to me.
My core values are integrity, innovation, loyalty, excellence, and 100% personal responsibility.

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
up to you. Thanks.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
and above, please click here:
http://www.nvda-project.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (218-606-0475) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly. Thank
you, and have a great day!


Re: Anti Virus Program

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

https://sourceforge.net/projects/clamwin/files/clamwin/0.99.1/clamwin-0.99.1-setup.exe/download?use_mirror=kent


Found in three clicks of the keyboard.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Casey" <cwollner@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2018 3:42 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Anti Virus Program


Hi where can you get this clamwin from?

And what does it take to set it all up?




On 3/8/2018 10:57 PM, Sam Taylor wrote:

Try Clamwin antivirus. it's effective, small, portable and free.


On 9/03/2018 14:20, Shaun Everiss wrote:
You know this has popped up so much and I have decided that there
just isn't anymore.

Avast could have been a great program.

Nod32 was accessible up to a point, it aint now, vipre maybe, panda
antivirus maybe.

Sophos.

To be honest the fact so many lagit programs are being mistargeted,
forcing users like me to have to basically leave vast parts of the os
open to attack is a problem.

Some users have gone so far to exclude their drives from scanning and
that does in deed fix things.

On my new system I am just going to have to exclude my backup drive
from scanning because I just don't trust what windows defender will do.

As for the rest, I will have to restructure my drive, and exclude all
audio games, all portable apps, all apps, all user installed
programs the only things I will leave with programs in it are windows
and ms programs and my downloads folder and maybe make a folder for
unprocessed files and exclude that.

Basically to use my system securely I will have to exclude pritty
much half my c drive in order to not run into problems.

I may as well not use antivirus alltogether, but I have no choice,
there are just to many false positives to handle.




On 9/03/2018 3:14 p.m., Andrea Sherry wrote:
tried free version of AVG. Setup was difficult and I was not able to
control anything the program did after installation.

Is there anything better I could try?

Andrea


--

Casey


Re: Anti Virus Program

Antony Stone
 

Hm, have you got any references for those comments "many tech experts now
suggest that anti-virus programs should not be used" and "using other security
software actually could leave your machine more vulnerable"?

That sounds interesting and quite significant - I'd like to read more
background about such opinions.


Thanks,


Antony.

On Friday 09 March 2018 at 17:24:47, Nimer Jaber wrote:

Hello,

Many tech experts now suggest that anti-virus programs should not be used,
that Windows Security is good enough for most users, and that using other
security software actually could leave your machine more vulnerable to
attack. this is for home users, not for enterprise users, but for the
average home user, the built-in security software is good enough, along
with a router firewall and the one built into the OS, and proper surfing
habbits such as not clicking on links and opening attachments in e-mails
you do not know and trust. I don't know if I am ready to adopt this advice
yet, but this is what many tech experts are recommending now.

As for me, I recommend Sophos. Sophos is focused on the enterprise market,
and they have a very robust home version at this time that is nearly fully
accessible from their web interface. it is a program i recommend highly. It
has also been rated pretty highly by independent lab testing methodologies.
--
Anyone that's normal doesn't really achieve much.

- Mark Blair, Australian rocket engineer

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.


Re: Anti Virus Program

Gene
 

But considering that one way to prevent infection under certain conditions is to turn the machine off, your message appeared to be discussing that method.  Keep the machine off or don't use the machine, might have expressed the idea.  But turn the machine off, given certain conditions on Internet sites where that is the procedure prescribed to prevent infection, as I discussed in my message, is ambigguous.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2018 10:18 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Anti Virus Program

Actually, I was being sarcastic about the only way to stop getting infected.
A never used machine is very safe indeed.

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <gsasner@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2018 12:48 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Anti Virus Program


Turn the machine off?  When?  When you go to a web site with hacked
advertising and your machine has already been infected with no indication of
it to the user?  Or if you absentmindedly do something you shouldn't do?
I'm not infallible.  Once, I wasn't thinking about what I was doing and I
followed a link that came in a message that looked as though it came from
someone I knew.  I just wasn't thinking at the moment.  Avast wouldn't let
me connect with the web site.  What would have happened if I wasn't running
an antivirus program?  Who knows?  I don't recall ever doing something like
that before or since.  But I just wasn't thinking one time in a lot of years
of computer use.

You have to take actions to be infected in many cases, but there are cases,
and their number is growing, where you don't.  You can greatly reduce the
danger by using a JAVA script blocker or by turning scripts off except on
sites where they are necessary.  But just saying turn the computer off only
works in cases where malware wants you to click something like a yes or ok
button or no button on a web page.  It doesn't matter what button you click.
Clicking any button will cause the malware to install.  So, in those cases,
just shutting down the computer will stop you from being infected.  But if
it were that easy not to become infected, these antimalware companies
wouldn't exist.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2018 4:05 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Anti Virus Program


Yes take the cheap route, just tirm he computer off and leave it off, very
safe and costs nothing.. grin
 I do feel we are losing our way. Most of the exploits are aimed at people
not exploits.
 Obviously they will need to patch holes, but expecting anti virus systems
to protect from everything is really impossible in my view. The more they
try to find everything the more they slow the computer down and trigger
false positives, and of course since everyone except Microsoft seem to have
designed their front ends inaccessibly, there is no hope for us.
 That is my reading of the current situation. I'll let you know when my
completely unprotected  amd chipped xp machines get clobbered. Probably not
for a long while unless I'm very unlucky.
 Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Shaun Everiss" <sm.everiss@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2018 4:20 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Anti Virus Program


> You know this has popped up so much and I have decided that there just
> isn't anymore.
>
> Avast could have been a great program.
>
> Nod32 was accessible up to a point, it aint now, vipre maybe, panda
> antivirus maybe.
>
> Sophos.
>
> To be honest the fact so many lagit programs are being mistargeted,
> forcing users like me to have to basically leave vast parts of the os open
> to attack is a problem.
>
> Some users have gone so far to exclude their drives from scanning and that
> does in deed fix things.
>
> On my new system I am just going to have to exclude my backup drive from
> scanning because I just don't trust what windows defender will do.
>
> As for the rest, I will have to restructure my drive, and exclude all
> audio games, all portable apps, all apps, all user installed programs the
> only things I will leave with programs in it are windows and ms programs
> and my downloads folder and maybe make a folder for unprocessed files and
> exclude that.
>
> Basically to use my system securely I will have to exclude pritty much
> half my c drive in order to not run into problems.
>
> I may as well not use antivirus alltogether, but I have no choice, there
> are just to many false positives to handle.
>
>
>
>
> On 9/03/2018 3:14 p.m., Andrea Sherry wrote:
>> tried free version of AVG. Setup was difficult and I was not able to
>> control anything the program did after installation.
>>
>> Is there anything better I could try?
>>
>> Andrea
>>
>
>
>
>