Date   

Re: Any Captcha Solving Add-on Works with FireFox 59 and NVDA 2018.1?

Tony Ballou
 

Hi,


There may be something, I just ran across an add on called Captcha Monster, I've yet to test it with NVDA though, but will soon be. 


Tony


On 3/23/2018 1:52 PM, Kenny wrote:

I really wish there was a way to make Webvisum work with the new FireFox 59 browser, but I fear this project is dead!


Is there any other free captcha solving add-on I can use that works with FireFox 59 and NVDA 2018.1?


Don't think it is fair we have to use an older, outdated FireFox browser to gain access to Webvisum, and I refuse to do so.


Has anyone found a work-around to this on-going nusome for users of screenreaders browsing the web?



Re: email list for open office users

Tony Ballou
 

Hi Rosemarie, 


I've been messing around with both open and libre offices writers for about 1 year and a half or so, and found keyboard shortcut lists for both.  I also found the keyboard shortcuts for open office calc.  If you want I can send you those.  I'm not sure if there is an email list, for blind users of these programs though.  I haven't seen anything come across the boards about one. It would be interesting to know if such list are out there. 


Tony

On 3/23/2018 3:20 PM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:

Hi, everyone,

 

Is there an email list for open office users? I'd especially like to learn kelp and writer.

 

Thanks for your help in advance.

 

Rosemarie

 

 



Re: I take it there have been no improvements to the flawed espeak ng in 2017.4?

Bhavya shah
 

Hi Sharni,
I have been meticulously perusing and consuming large portions of text
these last couple months for my examinations, which, fortunately and
finally, end on Wednesday. In this process, I must confess that I too
have noticed some fairly simple and uncomplicated and commonplace
words being mispronounced. As my objective was to prepare for my
examinations, I ignored and overlooked the mispronunciations, but did
feel surprised every now and then at the things I observed newly
broken. While I canot claim to be frustrated beyond further endurance,
far from that stage at the moment, I certainly get where you are
coming from. I suppose the best thing for us to do is to post all
these concerns of ours to the ESpeak-NG mailing list itself, so that
Reece and others are made cognizant of user feedback. This will
undoubtedly require patience and persistence, but seems to me the most
proper and promising course of action. I shall join anyone who choose
to pursue this endeavour post-March 28...
Thanks.

On 3/25/18, Lino Morales <linomorales001@gmail.com> wrote:
Well not into that crap anyway. To each his own. Buy a BRL display
Charneey.

Lino Morales

From: Rob Hudson<mailto:rob_hudson_3182@gmx.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2018 2:12 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] I take it there have been no improvements to the flawed
espeak ng in 2017.4?

Lino Morales <linomorales001@gmail.com> wrote:
This is what talking books are for. Regardless of what synth I use. You
realize bla hearing a book ready by a speech synth would be? Boring. It
would put me to sleep.

But not all books are made into audio books. In fact, the vast majority are
not. And if you're into online fiction, synth reading is the only game in
town.



--
Best Regards
Bhavya Shah

Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/

Contacting Me
E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@gmail.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bhavyashah125/
Twitter: @BhavyaShah125
Skype: bhavya.09


Re: accessible apps in the microsoft store that will work with NVDA?

 

Hi,
There are many apps that are accessible with NVDA. These include most recent update to Twitter, Sa11ytaire (accessible and testing version of Solitaire optimized for users with disabilities) and many others. And before anyone adds what I think they'll say, yes, I do recommend getting that ad-on (not only because I wrote it, but because it comes in handy in interesting situations such as supporting universal app controls NVDA doesn't support yet).
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sue J. Ward
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2018 12:00 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] accessible apps in the microsoft store that will work with NVDA?

Hello. I am glad I do have windows 10 and have the Microsoft Store installed was wondering what are some apps that will work with NVDA? I could only find two the MSN news and the MSN weather app so far. So if anyone knows of other ones maybe put them up on the list. Have heard that Skype is not that great that is okay have never used it.
____________________________________________________________
1 Simple Trick Removes Lip Lines & Eye Bags in Seconds healthzoneworldwide.com http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/5ab7f1c642cac71c52fa9st03duc


accessible apps in the microsoft store that will work with NVDA?

Sue J. Ward
 

Hello. I am glad I do have windows 10 and have the Microsoft Store installed was wondering what are some apps that will work with NVDA? I could only find two the MSN news and the MSN weather app so far. So if anyone knows of other ones maybe put them up on the list. Have heard that Skype is not that great that is okay have never used it.
____________________________________________________________
1 Simple Trick Removes Lip Lines & Eye Bags in Seconds
healthzoneworldwide.com
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/5ab7f1c642cac71c52fa9st03duc


Re: Youtube player and elapsed time not properly being displayed

 

Apparently, this is not limited to the browsers I mentioned in first message. The same issue exists in Google Chrome and Microsoft Edge.




On 3/25/2018 2:51 PM, Governor staten wrote:
Hello folks. Here is the issue, as best I can explain it.


When I open any video in YouTube, be it Firefox or Waterfox, it does not update the elapsed time of the video until I pause the video. Also, if I tab or control+tab away, it might update. Any reason why this is happening? It isn't a show stopper, but, it is annoying. I cannot say for sure if this happens in chrome or Edge, or Internet Explorer. This seems to be an issue that spans different versions of the browsers mentioned and the version of NVDA as well.





Youtube player and elapsed time not properly being displayed

 

Hello folks. Here is the issue, as best I can explain it.


When I open any video in YouTube, be it Firefox or Waterfox, it does not update the elapsed time of the video until I pause the video. Also, if I tab or control+tab away, it might update. Any reason why this is happening? It isn't a show stopper, but, it is annoying. I cannot say for sure if this happens in chrome or Edge, or Internet Explorer. This seems to be an issue that spans different versions of the browsers mentioned and the version of NVDA as well.


Re: I take it there have been no improvements to the flawed espeak ng in 2017.4?

Lino Morales
 

Well not into that crap anyway. To each his own. Buy a BRL display Charneey.

 

Lino Morales

 

From: Rob Hudson
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2018 2:12 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I take it there have been no improvements to the flawed espeak ng in 2017.4?

 

Lino Morales <linomorales001@...> wrote:
> This is what talking books are for. Regardless of what synth I use. You realize bla hearing a book ready by a speech synth would be? Boring. It would put me to sleep.


But not all books are made into audio books. In fact, the vast majority are not. And if you're into online fiction, synth reading is the only game in town.

 


Re: I take it there have been no improvements to the flawed espeak ng in 2017.4?

Rob Hudson
 

Lino Morales <linomorales001@gmail.com> wrote:
This is what talking books are for. Regardless of what synth I use. You realize bla hearing a book ready by a speech synth would be? Boring. It would put me to sleep.

But not all books are made into audio books. In fact, the vast majority are not. And if you're into online fiction, synth reading is the only game in town.


Re: I take it there have been no improvements to the flawed espeak ng in 2017.4?

Lino Morales
 

This is what talking books are for. Regardless of what synth I use. You realize bla hearing a book ready by a speech synth would be? Boring. It would put me to sleep.

 

Lino Morales

 

From: Sharni-Lee Ward
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2018 2:15 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I take it there have been no improvements to the flawed espeak ng in 2017.4?

 

Okay, I installed NVDA 2018.1, after creating a portable copy in case it became too much to bear.

 

I don't like Eloquence because it isn't as crisp as Espeak. I have compared it to A.M radio in the past, and Espeak to FM/CD Quality sound. Also, it has only eight variants as opposed to Espeak's forty-something (I just realised my lovingly customised alternate female variants have somehow been broken by more recent changes which makes me sad, but I usually stick with Linda anyway).

 

It's still doing the things that annoyed me in December, but I'm willing to try and see if I get used to them.

 

I don't expect a program to be perfect. I don't expect a synth to be perfect. I would like to hope that people don't break something that was perfectly all right in a previous version, however.

 

And as for inflection, I have it set to 100% (GAH, it does the thing with percent....), which makes Eloquence sound overly chipper, another reason I don't enjoy that synth as much. By flat, I mean the voice does not use perceptible inflection in the cases of question marks, commas and exclamation points. This should not be something a blind user has to put up with when it comes to synthesised voice. How is one supposed to know if the statement is yelled or spoken calmly if the voice doesn't give it away? How emotionally invested can they be in a story if there is no noticeable inflection for something as basic as exclamations and question marks?

 

 

On 25/03/2018 4:54 PM, Gene wrote:

I need to correct one statement.  You can't, as it appears, change inflection in Eloquence with NVDA.  I don't know what you consider flat.  But if you give Eloquence a chance, you may find that the amount of inflection it uses is not bothersome to you.  You may want an exaggerated amount of inflection.  I don't know how you have E-Speak set.  But you may find that, if you give Eloquence a chance and get used to it, you may find it generally superior over time. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene

Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2018 12:50 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] I take it there have been no improvements to the flawed espeak ng in 2017.4?

 

Also, what's wrong with Eloquence?  Have you tried it  And as I recall, you can adjust inflection with it.  Don't use the Brittish English voice.  It's obviously programmed by Americans amateurishly trying to imitate a Brittish accent.  Use the default American English.  It pronounces a great many more words correctly compared with e-speak.  And I use it very well with the NVDA speech dictionary.  Are you familiar with the SAPI 5 demo you can try of Eloquence?  Eloquence and Via Voice, the same synthesizer from a sound and performance standpoint, are the most accurate in terms of proper pronounciation of words in my experience. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sharni-Lee Ward
Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2018 10:27 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] I take it there have been no improvements to the flawed espeak ng in 2017.4?

I've just caught up on all my emails. If I understood an earlier thread correctly, despite our complaints when 2017.4 came out, the devs did not roll back the version of espeak packaged with NVDA to the version in 2017.3, which means that I will not be updating NVDA, despite the wonderful-sounding new features.


Espeak, and subsequently Espeak NG, has been my default synth since I started using NVDA. There was an issue in 2014 but I was able to get used to that, and then it got fixed, so I was contented. The problems I found in the espeak packaged with 2017.4 were more than I could stand, as someone who primarily uses NVDA to read fanfiction and my own stories. However, Espeak is among the only synths compatible with NVDA's inflection slider, which I have maxed out for optimal performance. I'm not about to sacrifice broad inflection for the drones of MS voices, and I'm currently using a Win 7 computer, but even if I was on a Win 10 one, the 1Core voices don't do it for me either. They're pleasant, but also flat. No inflection. No way to change the inflection. I can't stand human-sounding voices because they're less flexible than synthetic ones in this regard. Also, nearly all non Espeak voices are slow as well as flat, partially due to the length of pauses between clauses of a sentence, and this is about as unbearable as the flatness. And there is one more thing that really clinches my unwillingness to change synths. I cannot get anything else to cooperate with my speech dictionary. As I said, I read a lot of fanfiction, and I have put lots of characters'
names and the names of Pokémon into my dictionary so that they are pronounced properly. The other synths simply do not like these names, no matter what I try to do with them, and some of them even pronounced my name wrong, so I gave up on them.


This is why I want whoever's developing Espeak to roll back their changes to a previous version (surely they have older versions backed up somewhere. I would if I was developing something like this), and for NVDA to likewise roll back the version packaged with it until the devs of the synth work out how to alter one language without screwing up twenty others in the process. I know I can only go so far before I am forced to update to the latest version of NVDA or be left to languish as more and more things become incompatible with the last tolerable version I have.


Please, I am begging you, do something about this.







 

 


Re: NVDA and windows 10 mail

Chris
 

Same here , don’t know what causing it but restarting nvda fixes the issue

And its not always every time

 

 


NVDA and windows 10 mail

Mark <mark@...>
 

Hi using windows 10 64 bit with latest nvda and latest windows 10 mail the problem I am getting is

When I close mailault tab to another window nvda stops speaking

But I can still quit nvda and restart it please help

Mark.

 

Tune in to the number one station on the web TAFN radio
http://tafn.org.uk/listen
Or for our catch up service on demand http://www.tafn.org.uk/on-demand
or for our upcoming weekly schedule
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part of the accessible friends network
www.tafn.org.uk
Registered UK Charity: #1108043.
Sent from Windows 10 Mail.

 


Re: Issue With Excel 2016

Cearbhall O'Meadhra
 

Ron,

In the keystrokes that you have listed, you are missing "a" and so the sequence should not work.

In light of your experience, I have, just now, pressed each of the five keys well spaced out and the import window opened. I used alt then a then p then n then f then t to do this.

Anyway, your familiar sequence of alt>a>f>t still works so the above is interesting but not essential.

Success!!

I have found how to change the target of the import.

You proceed as usual up to the "Load" button. Press tab once when the button is in focus. Then press down-arrow once and you should hear
"Load menu drop menu Edit Cancel"
the Load menu is the first choice and so down-arrow opens it.
Down arrow on this and a second option appears 2Load to" this gives various choices for the target.

NVDA managed all this with ease.

Try it and let me know how you get on!

All the best,

Cearbhall
(Incidentally, if you are struggling with my Irish name, it is pronounced like "Karule"!

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@blbc.ie

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ron Canazzi
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2018 3:43 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Issue With Excel 2016

Hello:


Pressing the keystrokes alt + P N F T does not work on my US English version of Excel 2016. When I press alt + P, wait a second or 2 and then press N, I get a system error sound. This keystroke simply is invalid for my version of Excel 2016.


As far as the dialogue, using the tab, there is a certain amount of accessibility, but not a wizard interface and the default button via trial and error turns out to be load. This loads the data into a new worksheet as you and I have both previously determined. There has to be some sort of ability to load the data into the exiting worksheet. This must work for sighted people--which leads me to believe that there is some sort of inaccessible button or graphic that screen readers such as NVDA or JAWS do not see. It would be a great problem for sighted people if there were no such option.


All n all, my work around is to import the data into a new sheet, cut and paste it into the existing sheet and then move back to the now empty new sheet and delete it with hot keys alt + H, D, S and confirm. What a royal pain!





On 3/25/2018 5:50 AM, Cearbhall O'Meadhra wrote:
Ron,

The message is probably not relevant but indicates that the text file may have originated from a web link or contain elements which have been pasted from a web or other source that Microsoft is cautious about.

Your keystroke combination leads you correctly where you should be in order to import and transform the data into your existing workbook, albeit with a new worksheet which the wizard will add to the workbook.

Your quick key combination of:
Alt>f>t
still works but Excel appears to have changed it for some reason. NVDA
reports that it is now
alt>pn>f>t
The use of "pn" surprises me and needs to be pressed distinctly (not too rapidly) or it does not work.
However, this combination also works and both lead to the third step of the data import wizard which does, indeed, open with the "1252: Western European (Windows)" regional setting that you reported.

This dialog is not inaccessible, I tabbed around each field without any problem. If I try to move around the window with the arrow keys whilst on "1250 western European", for example, I will only remain in the list of regional settings. The only way to move from field to field is by using "tab". I did notice that it appears to be a collection of distinct windows, unlike other dialogs.

I pressed NVDA with Numpad "-" in order to "Move to Focus" and then pressed NVDA with numpad 8 twice to fully expand the review window. I moved around the screen using NVDA with Numpad 9 and saved the result. I have pasted it below to let you see it. In live mode, I can easily get to each of these elements using the tab key.

Are you able to get a response when you use the tab key in this dialog?

Here is the full content of the review screen including blank lines:
"

rontest.txt








Specify the settings for each file.

Learn more

Example File:




File Origin


1252: Western European (Windows)



Delimiter


Semicolon


Delimiter

Data Type Detection


Based on first 200 rows



Refresh







Column1

Column2

Column3


Multimedia 3631950 - The Littlest Angel - Lullaby of Christmas01 - the
littlest angel.mp3 Multimedia 3631950 - The Littlest Angel - Lullaby
of Christmas02 - lullaby of christmas.mp3 Multimedia 363baja marimba
band - 2001 best of01 along comes mary.mp3 Multimedia 363baja marimba
band - 2001 best of02 juarez.mp3 Multimedia 363baja marimba band -
2001 best of03 comin' in the back door.mp3 Multimedia 363baja marimba
band - 2001 best of04 georgy girl.mp3

The data in the preview has been truncated due to size limits.



No preview is available






Skip files with errorsSkip files with errors




Load

drop
Edit
Edit
Cancel
Cancel"


All the best,

Cearbhall

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e:
cearbhall.omeadhra@blbc.ie


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ron
Canazzi
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2018 6:14 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Issue With Excel 2016

Hello:


The warning has existed since I had Excel 2013. It ix a simple security warning that says:


"Microsoft Excel Security Notice Microsoft Office has identified a
potential security concern.
The operation connects to an external data source.
External data sources are used to import data into Excel, but
connections to external data sources can be used by queries to access
confidential information available to other users, or to perform other
harmful actions. If you trust the source of this file, click OK."


Now as I said, I have been getting this warning with both Windows 8.1
and 10 since 2013. In the past, I simply clicked OK and the file name
field appeared, I typed the path to the file name, clicked open and
the wizard would launch.


Here is some other information. I am using the ribbon hotkeys to
import data from a text file. This sequences is as follows:

alt + A for data followed by F for file T for text. This has worked
since 2013 as well. Now when I followed those steps, rather than the
wizard, I get a largely inaccessible dialogue and the first field is a
choice of character sets with the default being 1252: Western European
(Windows)


Hopefully, this information will give you some idea as to what is
happening. It is as if there is no longer a wizard and some preset of
some sort is coming up and asking me to verify or edit it.



On 3/24/2018 8:00 PM, Cearbhall O'Meadhra wrote:
Ron,

I don't get any warning message. That implies something different that might relate to the problem you are having. What does the message say?

I have just saved your lines into a text file in notepad. The rows are no longer defined by a carriage return in your message but it is clear that cell 1 contains the word "Multimedia" so I put a carriage return in front of each.
Here is what I experienced:

I opened the browse window with alt>f>o>o and the import wizard came up offering step 1 of 3.
The first step offered that the file data was "Fixed length" so I arrowed up to "Delimited". I ignored the start at and tabbed to Next and step 2 opened.
In Step 2 "Tab" was already selected as the delimiter. I unchecked that and tabbed to the next item which was "Semicolon", so I selected that. I then tabbed to "Next" and Step 3 opened.
In Step 3, I skipped over the format selections and tabbed down to "Finish".
The data was successfully imported into a table within Excel - not the original workbook that I had opened with a new worksheet to take the data. When I tried to save the data, I had no choice but to save it as a new workbook with the name of the original text file.

Every step of the wizard was fully accessible. I am attaching the text file and workbook here for your information.

By the way, I tried a second experiment to see if the data would go into an existing workbook:
I opened "Data" on the menu bar and selected "Get and transform Data". This had a few options and so I tabbed around and selected "From File". The second step opened and I accepted the offered "semicolon" as delimiter. I then tabbed to "Import". This opened a new step where I could set the delimiter and other details which were all visible to NVDA. I then tabbed to "Load" and the whole text file was placed in a new worksheet within the open existing workbook. I did have a worksheet ready but the wizard ignored that and inserted a new "Sheet1" to take the imported data.

I appreciate that all of this is what you describe as being no longer available to you. If it helps, I can confirm that it is still available in Excel 2016.

Perhaps the warning message will give us a clue?

All the best,

Cearbhall

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e:
cearbhall.omeadhra@blbc.ie


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ron
Canazzi
Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2018 8:41 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Issue With Excel 2016

Hi Rich,


I have been using semi colon [;] for the delimiters for years from
Excel
2000 up until Excel2016 just a few weeks ago. I never had this problem before. I save the text file with the standard txt extension. I use Notepad to create the files. The common parameters--which used to appear in the wizard when trying to import the file first ask 'what line of the import file you wish to begin at (the default is line 1) You click next and the second screen asks for the delimiter and I choose semi colon [;]. the next few screens have to do with formulas and other things that i just bypass and then click finish. This wizard like interface no longer occurs when I try the import of the text file. I get the Microsoft security warning which I dismiss and then this odd and new inaccessible interface.


Here are a few lines from the text file I have been trying to import.


Multimedia 363;1950 - The Littlest Angel - Lullaby of Christmas;01 -
the littlest angel.mp3 Multimedia 363;1950 - The Littlest Angel -
Lullaby of Christmas;02 - lullaby of christmas.mp3 Multimedia
363;baja marimba band - 2001 best of;01 along comes mary.mp3
Multimedia 363;baja marimba band - 2001 best of;02 juarez.mp3
Multimedia 363;baja marimba band - 2001 best of;03 comin' in the back
door.mp3
Multimedia 363;baja marimba band - 2001 best of;04 georgy girl.mp3



On 3/24/2018 8:32 AM, Rick wrote:
Hello Ron:

What file extension are you using for the file you are attempting to import? Excel has a common format (.csv) which stands for Comma Separated Variables, where each field is separated using a comma in the file. Each field in the line of text is then placed in a separate cell in a row. Each new line will begin another row in the worksheet.

Also, can you give us a few sample lines from the file you are attempting to import and the rules you want to apply to the import process?

Thanks, Rick

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ron
Canazzi
Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2018 7:45 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Issue With Excel 2016

Hello:


I open the existing Excel Work Book.

I then use open file and type in the path and file name of the delimited text file.


This used to work. I used to get a wizard of sorts that could have
a back, next and finish and step by step, I would be asked which
column I should start the import at, what delimited I should use and
other parameters I should use.


Now I get this odd inaccessible dialogue.



On 3/24/2018 6:50 AM, Cearbhall O'Meadhra wrote:
Hi Ron,

I am using excel 2016 in Windows 10 and a choice of both NVDA and JAWS 17. All are up to the latest versions.

I am curious about your issue as I do a lot of work with excel myself.

I have just created a tab delimited text file and imported it successfully. I tried using the File>Open dialog and the "Get external data" option on the Data Menu. Although the resulting dialog is different in each case, I found every part of the dialog fully accessible with NVDA.

In older versions of Excel, I used to import text files using the File>Open dialog. I was surprised to find that I cannot do this in excel 2016.

You don't say what technique you are using, but if you explain exactly what you have been attempting I would be happy to explore it with you and see what might have changed.


All the best,

Cearbhall

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e:
cearbhall.omeadhra@blbc.ie


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ron
Canazzi
Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2018 1:28 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Issue With Excel 2016

Hi Group,


For years, I have been using Microsoft Excel to make a simple spread sheet database for various of my music and movie files. I usually do this by creating a delimited text file using Notepad and then importing the file into Excel via the import data/text file item. For years this has worked. I would click the file and then I would get a Microsoft Security warning and then the file would open and a wizard of sorts would launch and ask me for the parameters: delimiters, beginning column, and so on.


However, now when I load an existing file into Excel, I get some sort of weird interface that doesn't seem to work with NVDA or JAWS and I am unable to complete the importation as I normally did.


I assume that either an update to Office 2016 or some other update to Windows 10 has changed some default setting in Excel that makes things operate differently. I have looked under options in the Excel program but I am unable to find what might be causing this difference. What setting could be changed to get things back to where they used to be for my Excel program?


Thanks for any help.


--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"







--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"






--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


Re: I take it there have been no improvements to the flawed espeak ng in 2017.4?

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

I think I remember hearing the Edward voice in speech player and it did sound strange.

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sharni-Lee Ward
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2018 1:35 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I take it there have been no improvements to the flawed espeak ng in 2017.4?

 

Does it still say "hoisted" and "Hoenn" weirdly? Because if it does I don't like it. I know I'm sounding nitpicky but seriously, Espeak was fine before some idiot had to go and break it, and I don't know why Speechplayer in Espeak says "hoist" so weirdly but I cannot bear it.

 

On 25/03/2018 7:28 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:

However Speech player in Espeak works out of the box of course.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Sharni-Lee Ward" <sharni-lee.ward@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2018 7:50 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] I take it there have been no improvements to the flawed espeak ng in 2017.4?



The last time I tried something like that I broke Espeak so thoroughly that NVDA couldn't boot up and I had to uninstall and reinstall from a portable copy. And that was to try and fix a much more minor issue than this current one.


Words and phrases that I have found which are slurred include, but are not limited to: our, hour, they're, percent (the only one I've been able to fix so far), and the phrases "for the" and "for a". I'll probably be reminded of more in the future. Did others on the list just learn to put up with this or what?

On 25/03/2018 5:26 PM, Hareth wrote:

You can try to copy the "synthDrivers" folder from your preferred NVDA
version installation directory,
and replace it with the current NVDA release.
I'd assume it would work for you.

On 3/25/18, Sharni-Lee Ward <sharni-lee.ward@...><mailto:sharni-lee.ward@...> wrote:


Okay, I installed NVDA 2018.1, after creating a portable copy in case it
became too much to bear.


I don't like Eloquence because it isn't as crisp as Espeak. I have compared
it to A.M radio in the past, and Espeak to FM/CD Quality sound. Also, it has
only eight variants as opposed to Espeak's forty-something (I just realised
my lovingly customised alternate female variants have somehow been broken by
more recent changes which makes me sad, but I usually stick with Linda
anyway).


It's still doing the things that annoyed me in December, but I'm willing to
try and see if I get used to them.


I don't expect a program to be perfect. I don't expect a synth to be
perfect. I would like to hope that people don't break something that was
perfectly all right in a previous version, however.


And as for inflection, I have it set to 100% (GAH, it does the thing with
percent....), which makes Eloquence sound overly chipper, another reason I
don't enjoy that synth as much. By flat, I mean the voice does not use
perceptible inflection in the cases of question marks, commas and
exclamation points. This should not be something a blind user has to put up
with when it comes to synthesised voice. How is one supposed to know if the
statement is yelled or spoken calmly if the voice doesn't give it away? How
emotionally invested can they be in a story if there is no noticeable
inflection for something as basic as exclamations and question marks?



On 25/03/2018 4:54 PM, Gene wrote:
I need to correct one statement.  You can't, as it appears, change
inflection in Eloquence with NVDA.  I don't know what you consider flat.
But if you give Eloquence a chance, you may find that the amount of
inflection it uses is not bothersome to you.  You may want an exaggerated
amount of inflection.  I don't know how you have E-Speak set.  But you may
find that, if you give Eloquence a chance and get used to it, you may find
it generally superior over time.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene<mailto:gsasner@...><mailto:gsasner@...>
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2018 12:50 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io><mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io><mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] I take it there have been no improvements to the flawed
espeak ng in 2017.4?

Also, what's wrong with Eloquence?  Have you tried it  And as I recall, you
can adjust inflection with it.  Don't use the Brittish English voice. It's
obviously programmed by Americans amateurishly trying to imitate a Brittish
accent.  Use the default American English.  It pronounces a great many more
words correctly compared with e-speak.  And I use it very well with the NVDA
speech dictionary.  Are you familiar with the SAPI 5 demo you can try of
Eloquence?  Eloquence and Via Voice, the same synthesizer from a sound and
performance standpoint, are the most accurate in terms of proper
pronounciation of words in my experience.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io><mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io><mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io><mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io><mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>> On Behalf Of Sharni-Lee
Ward
Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2018 10:27 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io><mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io><mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: [nvda] I take it there have been no improvements to the flawed
espeak ng in 2017.4?

I've just caught up on all my emails. If I understood an earlier thread
correctly, despite our complaints when 2017.4 came out, the devs did not
roll back the version of espeak packaged with NVDA to the version in 2017.3,
which means that I will not be updating NVDA, despite the wonderful-sounding
new features.


Espeak, and subsequently Espeak NG, has been my default synth since I
started using NVDA. There was an issue in 2014 but I was able to get used to
that, and then it got fixed, so I was contented. The problems I found in the
espeak packaged with 2017.4 were more than I could stand, as someone who
primarily uses NVDA to read fanfiction and my own stories. However, Espeak
is among the only synths compatible with NVDA's inflection slider, which I
have maxed out for optimal performance. I'm not about to sacrifice broad
inflection for the drones of MS voices, and I'm currently using a Win 7
computer, but even if I was on a Win 10 one, the 1Core voices don't do it
for me either. They're pleasant, but also flat. No inflection. No way to
change the inflection. I can't stand human-sounding voices because they're
less flexible than synthetic ones in this regard. Also, nearly all non
Espeak voices are slow as well as flat, partially due to the length of
pauses between clauses of a sentence, and this is about as unbearable as the
flatness. And there is one more thing that really clinches my unwillingness
to change synths. I cannot get anything else to cooperate with my speech
dictionary. As I said, I read a lot of fanfiction, and I have put lots of
characters'
names and the names of Pokémon into my dictionary so that they are
pronounced properly. The other synths simply do not like these names, no
matter what I try to do with them, and some of them even pronounced my name
wrong, so I gave up on them.


This is why I want whoever's developing Espeak to roll back their changes to
a previous version (surely they have older versions backed up somewhere. I
would if I was developing something like this), and for NVDA to likewise
roll back the version packaged with it until the devs of the synth work out
how to alter one language without screwing up twenty others in the process.
I know I can only go so far before I am forced to update to the latest
version of NVDA or be left to languish as more and more things become
incompatible with the last tolerable version I have.


Please, I am begging you, do something about this.





















 


Re: Issue With Excel 2016

Ron Canazzi
 

Hello:


Pressing the keystrokes alt + P N F T does not work on my US English version of Excel 2016.  When I press alt + P, wait a second or 2 and then press N, I get a system error sound.  This keystroke simply is invalid for my version of Excel 2016.


As far as the dialogue, using the tab, there is a certain amount of accessibility, but not a wizard interface and the default button via trial and error turns out to be load.  This loads the data into a new worksheet as you and I have both previously determined.  There has to be some sort of ability to load the data into the exiting worksheet.  This must work for sighted people--which leads me to believe that there is some sort of inaccessible button or graphic that screen readers such as NVDA or JAWS do not see.  It would be a great problem for sighted people if there were no such option.


All n all, my work around is to import the data into a new sheet, cut and paste it into the existing sheet and then move back to the now empty new sheet and delete it with hot keys alt + H, D, S and confirm.  What a royal pain!

On 3/25/2018 5:50 AM, Cearbhall O'Meadhra wrote:
Ron,

The message is probably not relevant but indicates that the text file may have originated from a web link or contain elements which have been pasted from a web or other source that Microsoft is cautious about.

Your keystroke combination leads you correctly where you should be in order to import and transform the data into your existing workbook, albeit with a new worksheet which the wizard will add to the workbook.

Your quick key combination of:
Alt>f>t
still works but Excel appears to have changed it for some reason. NVDA reports that it is now
alt>pn>f>t
The use of "pn" surprises me and needs to be pressed distinctly (not too rapidly) or it does not work.
However, this combination also works and both lead to the third step of the data import wizard which does, indeed, open with the "1252: Western European (Windows)" regional setting that you reported.

This dialog is not inaccessible, I tabbed around each field without any problem. If I try to move around the window with the arrow keys whilst on "1250 western European", for example, I will only remain in the list of regional settings. The only way to move from field to field is by using "tab". I did notice that it appears to be a collection of distinct windows, unlike other dialogs.

I pressed NVDA with Numpad "-" in order to "Move to Focus" and then pressed NVDA with numpad 8 twice to fully expand the review window. I moved around the screen using NVDA with Numpad 9 and saved the result. I have pasted it below to let you see it. In live mode, I can easily get to each of these elements using the tab key.

Are you able to get a response when you use the tab key in this dialog?

Here is the full content of the review screen including blank lines:
"

rontest.txt






Specify the settings for each file.

Learn more

Example File:




File Origin


1252: Western European (Windows)


Delimiter


Semicolon

Delimiter

Data Type Detection


Based on first 200 rows


Refresh







Column1

Column2

Column3


Multimedia 3631950 - The Littlest Angel - Lullaby of Christmas01 - the littlest angel.mp3
Multimedia 3631950 - The Littlest Angel - Lullaby of Christmas02 - lullaby of christmas.mp3
Multimedia 363baja marimba band - 2001 best of01 along comes mary.mp3
Multimedia 363baja marimba band - 2001 best of02 juarez.mp3
Multimedia 363baja marimba band - 2001 best of03 comin' in the back door.mp3
Multimedia 363baja marimba band - 2001 best of04 georgy girl.mp3

The data in the preview has been truncated due to size limits.



No preview is available






Skip files with errorsSkip files with errors



Load

drop
Edit
Edit
Cancel
Cancel"


All the best,

Cearbhall

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@blbc.ie


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ron Canazzi
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2018 6:14 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Issue With Excel 2016

Hello:


The warning has existed since I had Excel 2013. It ix a simple security warning that says:


"Microsoft Excel Security Notice Microsoft Office has identified a
potential security concern.
The operation connects to an external data source.
External data sources are used to import data into Excel, but
connections to external data sources can be used by queries to access
confidential information available to other users, or to perform other
harmful actions. If you trust the source of this file, click OK."


Now as I said, I have been getting this warning with both Windows 8.1
and 10 since 2013. In the past, I simply clicked OK and the file name
field appeared, I typed the path to the file name, clicked open and the
wizard would launch.


Here is some other information. I am using the ribbon hotkeys to import
data from a text file. This sequences is as follows:

alt + A for data followed by F for file T for text. This has worked
since 2013 as well. Now when I followed those steps, rather than the
wizard, I get a largely inaccessible dialogue and the first field is a
choice of character sets with the default being 1252: Western European
(Windows)


Hopefully, this information will give you some idea as to what is
happening. It is as if there is no longer a wizard and some preset of
some sort is coming up and asking me to verify or edit it.



On 3/24/2018 8:00 PM, Cearbhall O'Meadhra wrote:
Ron,

I don't get any warning message. That implies something different that might relate to the problem you are having. What does the message say?

I have just saved your lines into a text file in notepad. The rows are no longer defined by a carriage return in your message but it is clear that cell 1 contains the word "Multimedia" so I put a carriage return in front of each.
Here is what I experienced:

I opened the browse window with alt>f>o>o and the import wizard came up offering step 1 of 3.
The first step offered that the file data was "Fixed length" so I arrowed up to "Delimited". I ignored the start at and tabbed to Next and step 2 opened.
In Step 2 "Tab" was already selected as the delimiter. I unchecked that and tabbed to the next item which was "Semicolon", so I selected that. I then tabbed to "Next" and Step 3 opened.
In Step 3, I skipped over the format selections and tabbed down to "Finish".
The data was successfully imported into a table within Excel - not the original workbook that I had opened with a new worksheet to take the data. When I tried to save the data, I had no choice but to save it as a new workbook with the name of the original text file.

Every step of the wizard was fully accessible. I am attaching the text file and workbook here for your information.

By the way, I tried a second experiment to see if the data would go into an existing workbook:
I opened "Data" on the menu bar and selected "Get and transform Data". This had a few options and so I tabbed around and selected "From File". The second step opened and I accepted the offered "semicolon" as delimiter. I then tabbed to "Import". This opened a new step where I could set the delimiter and other details which were all visible to NVDA. I then tabbed to "Load" and the whole text file was placed in a new worksheet within the open existing workbook. I did have a worksheet ready but the wizard ignored that and inserted a new "Sheet1" to take the imported data.

I appreciate that all of this is what you describe as being no longer available to you. If it helps, I can confirm that it is still available in Excel 2016.

Perhaps the warning message will give us a clue?

All the best,

Cearbhall

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@blbc.ie


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ron Canazzi
Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2018 8:41 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Issue With Excel 2016

Hi Rich,


I have been using semi colon [;] for the delimiters for years from Excel
2000 up until Excel2016 just a few weeks ago. I never had this problem before. I save the text file with the standard txt extension. I use Notepad to create the files. The common parameters--which used to appear in the wizard when trying to import the file first ask 'what line of the import file you wish to begin at (the default is line 1) You click next and the second screen asks for the delimiter and I choose semi colon [;]. the next few screens have to do with formulas and other things that i just bypass and then click finish. This wizard like interface no longer occurs when I try the import of the text file. I get the Microsoft security warning which I dismiss and then this odd and new inaccessible interface.


Here are a few lines from the text file I have been trying to import.


Multimedia 363;1950 - The Littlest Angel - Lullaby of Christmas;01 - the littlest angel.mp3 Multimedia 363;1950 - The Littlest Angel - Lullaby of Christmas;02 - lullaby of christmas.mp3 Multimedia 363;baja marimba band - 2001 best of;01 along comes mary.mp3 Multimedia 363;baja marimba band - 2001 best of;02 juarez.mp3 Multimedia 363;baja marimba band - 2001 best of;03 comin' in the back
door.mp3
Multimedia 363;baja marimba band - 2001 best of;04 georgy girl.mp3



On 3/24/2018 8:32 AM, Rick wrote:
Hello Ron:

What file extension are you using for the file you are attempting to import? Excel has a common format (.csv) which stands for Comma Separated Variables, where each field is separated using a comma in the file. Each field in the line of text is then placed in a separate cell in a row. Each new line will begin another row in the worksheet.

Also, can you give us a few sample lines from the file you are attempting to import and the rules you want to apply to the import process?

Thanks, Rick

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ron
Canazzi
Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2018 7:45 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Issue With Excel 2016

Hello:


I open the existing Excel Work Book.

I then use open file and type in the path and file name of the delimited text file.


This used to work. I used to get a wizard of sorts that could have a
back, next and finish and step by step, I would be asked which column
I should start the import at, what delimited I should use and other
parameters I should use.


Now I get this odd inaccessible dialogue.



On 3/24/2018 6:50 AM, Cearbhall O'Meadhra wrote:
Hi Ron,

I am using excel 2016 in Windows 10 and a choice of both NVDA and JAWS 17. All are up to the latest versions.

I am curious about your issue as I do a lot of work with excel myself.

I have just created a tab delimited text file and imported it successfully. I tried using the File>Open dialog and the "Get external data" option on the Data Menu. Although the resulting dialog is different in each case, I found every part of the dialog fully accessible with NVDA.

In older versions of Excel, I used to import text files using the File>Open dialog. I was surprised to find that I cannot do this in excel 2016.

You don't say what technique you are using, but if you explain exactly what you have been attempting I would be happy to explore it with you and see what might have changed.


All the best,

Cearbhall

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e:
cearbhall.omeadhra@blbc.ie


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ron
Canazzi
Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2018 1:28 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Issue With Excel 2016

Hi Group,


For years, I have been using Microsoft Excel to make a simple spread sheet database for various of my music and movie files. I usually do this by creating a delimited text file using Notepad and then importing the file into Excel via the import data/text file item. For years this has worked. I would click the file and then I would get a Microsoft Security warning and then the file would open and a wizard of sorts would launch and ask me for the parameters: delimiters, beginning column, and so on.


However, now when I load an existing file into Excel, I get some sort of weird interface that doesn't seem to work with NVDA or JAWS and I am unable to complete the importation as I normally did.


I assume that either an update to Office 2016 or some other update to Windows 10 has changed some default setting in Excel that makes things operate differently. I have looked under options in the Excel program but I am unable to find what might be causing this difference. What setting could be changed to get things back to where they used to be for my Excel program?


Thanks for any help.


--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"







--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"






--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


Re: I take it there have been no improvements to the flawed espeak ng in 2017.4?

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

https://groups.io/g/espeak-ng

Mind you I find their list very much a programmers list, and do not have the language to use to tell people some of the more subtle issues that need fixing.
Brian
bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Sharni-Lee Ward" <sharni-lee.ward@hotmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2018 7:50 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] I take it there have been no improvements to the flawed espeak ng in 2017.4?


The last time I tried something like that I broke Espeak so thoroughly that NVDA couldn't boot up and I had to uninstall and reinstall from a portable copy. And that was to try and fix a much more minor issue than this current one.


Words and phrases that I have found which are slurred include, but are not limited to: our, hour, they're, percent (the only one I've been able to fix so far), and the phrases "for the" and "for a". I'll probably be reminded of more in the future. Did others on the list just learn to put up with this or what?

On 25/03/2018 5:26 PM, Hareth wrote:

You can try to copy the "synthDrivers" folder from your preferred NVDA
version installation directory,
and replace it with the current NVDA release.
I'd assume it would work for you.

On 3/25/18, Sharni-Lee Ward <sharni-lee.ward@hotmail.com><mailto:sharni-lee.ward@hotmail.com> wrote:


Okay, I installed NVDA 2018.1, after creating a portable copy in case it
became too much to bear.


I don't like Eloquence because it isn't as crisp as Espeak. I have compared
it to A.M radio in the past, and Espeak to FM/CD Quality sound. Also, it has
only eight variants as opposed to Espeak's forty-something (I just realised
my lovingly customised alternate female variants have somehow been broken by
more recent changes which makes me sad, but I usually stick with Linda
anyway).


It's still doing the things that annoyed me in December, but I'm willing to
try and see if I get used to them.


I don't expect a program to be perfect. I don't expect a synth to be
perfect. I would like to hope that people don't break something that was
perfectly all right in a previous version, however.


And as for inflection, I have it set to 100% (GAH, it does the thing with
percent....), which makes Eloquence sound overly chipper, another reason I
don't enjoy that synth as much. By flat, I mean the voice does not use
perceptible inflection in the cases of question marks, commas and
exclamation points. This should not be something a blind user has to put up
with when it comes to synthesised voice. How is one supposed to know if the
statement is yelled or spoken calmly if the voice doesn't give it away? How
emotionally invested can they be in a story if there is no noticeable
inflection for something as basic as exclamations and question marks?



On 25/03/2018 4:54 PM, Gene wrote:
I need to correct one statement. You can't, as it appears, change
inflection in Eloquence with NVDA. I don't know what you consider flat.
But if you give Eloquence a chance, you may find that the amount of
inflection it uses is not bothersome to you. You may want an exaggerated
amount of inflection. I don't know how you have E-Speak set. But you may
find that, if you give Eloquence a chance and get used to it, you may find
it generally superior over time.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene<mailto:gsasner@ripco.com><mailto:gsasner@ripco.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2018 12:50 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io><mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io><mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] I take it there have been no improvements to the flawed
espeak ng in 2017.4?

Also, what's wrong with Eloquence? Have you tried it And as I recall, you
can adjust inflection with it. Don't use the Brittish English voice. It's
obviously programmed by Americans amateurishly trying to imitate a Brittish
accent. Use the default American English. It pronounces a great many more
words correctly compared with e-speak. And I use it very well with the NVDA
speech dictionary. Are you familiar with the SAPI 5 demo you can try of
Eloquence? Eloquence and Via Voice, the same synthesizer from a sound and
performance standpoint, are the most accurate in terms of proper
pronounciation of words in my experience.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io><mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io><mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io><mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io><mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>> On Behalf Of Sharni-Lee
Ward
Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2018 10:27 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io><mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io><mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: [nvda] I take it there have been no improvements to the flawed
espeak ng in 2017.4?

I've just caught up on all my emails. If I understood an earlier thread
correctly, despite our complaints when 2017.4 came out, the devs did not
roll back the version of espeak packaged with NVDA to the version in 2017.3,
which means that I will not be updating NVDA, despite the wonderful-sounding
new features.


Espeak, and subsequently Espeak NG, has been my default synth since I
started using NVDA. There was an issue in 2014 but I was able to get used to
that, and then it got fixed, so I was contented. The problems I found in the
espeak packaged with 2017.4 were more than I could stand, as someone who
primarily uses NVDA to read fanfiction and my own stories. However, Espeak
is among the only synths compatible with NVDA's inflection slider, which I
have maxed out for optimal performance. I'm not about to sacrifice broad
inflection for the drones of MS voices, and I'm currently using a Win 7
computer, but even if I was on a Win 10 one, the 1Core voices don't do it
for me either. They're pleasant, but also flat. No inflection. No way to
change the inflection. I can't stand human-sounding voices because they're
less flexible than synthetic ones in this regard. Also, nearly all non
Espeak voices are slow as well as flat, partially due to the length of
pauses between clauses of a sentence, and this is about as unbearable as the
flatness. And there is one more thing that really clinches my unwillingness
to change synths. I cannot get anything else to cooperate with my speech
dictionary. As I said, I read a lot of fanfiction, and I have put lots of
characters'
names and the names of Pokémon into my dictionary so that they are
pronounced properly. The other synths simply do not like these names, no
matter what I try to do with them, and some of them even pronounced my name
wrong, so I gave up on them.


This is why I want whoever's developing Espeak to roll back their changes to
a previous version (surely they have older versions backed up somewhere. I
would if I was developing something like this), and for NVDA to likewise
roll back the version packaged with it until the devs of the synth work out
how to alter one language without screwing up twenty others in the process.
I know I can only go so far before I am forced to update to the latest
version of NVDA or be left to languish as more and more things become
incompatible with the last tolerable version I have.


Please, I am begging you, do something about this.



















Re: Issue With Excel 2016

Cearbhall O'Meadhra
 

Ron,

The message is probably not relevant but indicates that the text file may have originated from a web link or contain elements which have been pasted from a web or other source that Microsoft is cautious about.

Your keystroke combination leads you correctly where you should be in order to import and transform the data into your existing workbook, albeit with a new worksheet which the wizard will add to the workbook.

Your quick key combination of:
Alt>f>t
still works but Excel appears to have changed it for some reason. NVDA reports that it is now
alt>pn>f>t
The use of "pn" surprises me and needs to be pressed distinctly (not too rapidly) or it does not work.
However, this combination also works and both lead to the third step of the data import wizard which does, indeed, open with the "1252: Western European (Windows)" regional setting that you reported.

This dialog is not inaccessible, I tabbed around each field without any problem. If I try to move around the window with the arrow keys whilst on "1250 western European", for example, I will only remain in the list of regional settings. The only way to move from field to field is by using "tab". I did notice that it appears to be a collection of distinct windows, unlike other dialogs.

I pressed NVDA with Numpad "-" in order to "Move to Focus" and then pressed NVDA with numpad 8 twice to fully expand the review window. I moved around the screen using NVDA with Numpad 9 and saved the result. I have pasted it below to let you see it. In live mode, I can easily get to each of these elements using the tab key.

Are you able to get a response when you use the tab key in this dialog?

Here is the full content of the review screen including blank lines:
"

rontest.txt








Specify the settings for each file.

Learn more

Example File:




File Origin


1252: Western European (Windows)



Delimiter


Semicolon


Delimiter

Data Type Detection


Based on first 200 rows



Refresh







Column1

Column2

Column3


Multimedia 3631950 - The Littlest Angel - Lullaby of Christmas01 - the littlest angel.mp3
Multimedia 3631950 - The Littlest Angel - Lullaby of Christmas02 - lullaby of christmas.mp3
Multimedia 363baja marimba band - 2001 best of01 along comes mary.mp3
Multimedia 363baja marimba band - 2001 best of02 juarez.mp3
Multimedia 363baja marimba band - 2001 best of03 comin' in the back door.mp3
Multimedia 363baja marimba band - 2001 best of04 georgy girl.mp3

The data in the preview has been truncated due to size limits.



No preview is available






Skip files with errorsSkip files with errors




Load

drop
Edit
Edit
Cancel
Cancel"


All the best,

Cearbhall

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@blbc.ie

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ron Canazzi
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2018 6:14 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Issue With Excel 2016

Hello:


The warning has existed since I had Excel 2013. It ix a simple security warning that says:


"Microsoft Excel Security Notice Microsoft Office has identified a
potential security concern.
The operation connects to an external data source.
External data sources are used to import data into Excel, but
connections to external data sources can be used by queries to access
confidential information available to other users, or to perform other
harmful actions. If you trust the source of this file, click OK."


Now as I said, I have been getting this warning with both Windows 8.1
and 10 since 2013. In the past, I simply clicked OK and the file name
field appeared, I typed the path to the file name, clicked open and the
wizard would launch.


Here is some other information. I am using the ribbon hotkeys to import
data from a text file. This sequences is as follows:

alt + A for data followed by F for file T for text. This has worked
since 2013 as well. Now when I followed those steps, rather than the
wizard, I get a largely inaccessible dialogue and the first field is a
choice of character sets with the default being 1252: Western European
(Windows)


Hopefully, this information will give you some idea as to what is
happening. It is as if there is no longer a wizard and some preset of
some sort is coming up and asking me to verify or edit it.



On 3/24/2018 8:00 PM, Cearbhall O'Meadhra wrote:
Ron,

I don't get any warning message. That implies something different that might relate to the problem you are having. What does the message say?

I have just saved your lines into a text file in notepad. The rows are no longer defined by a carriage return in your message but it is clear that cell 1 contains the word "Multimedia" so I put a carriage return in front of each.
Here is what I experienced:

I opened the browse window with alt>f>o>o and the import wizard came up offering step 1 of 3.
The first step offered that the file data was "Fixed length" so I arrowed up to "Delimited". I ignored the start at and tabbed to Next and step 2 opened.
In Step 2 "Tab" was already selected as the delimiter. I unchecked that and tabbed to the next item which was "Semicolon", so I selected that. I then tabbed to "Next" and Step 3 opened.
In Step 3, I skipped over the format selections and tabbed down to "Finish".
The data was successfully imported into a table within Excel - not the original workbook that I had opened with a new worksheet to take the data. When I tried to save the data, I had no choice but to save it as a new workbook with the name of the original text file.

Every step of the wizard was fully accessible. I am attaching the text file and workbook here for your information.

By the way, I tried a second experiment to see if the data would go into an existing workbook:
I opened "Data" on the menu bar and selected "Get and transform Data". This had a few options and so I tabbed around and selected "From File". The second step opened and I accepted the offered "semicolon" as delimiter. I then tabbed to "Import". This opened a new step where I could set the delimiter and other details which were all visible to NVDA. I then tabbed to "Load" and the whole text file was placed in a new worksheet within the open existing workbook. I did have a worksheet ready but the wizard ignored that and inserted a new "Sheet1" to take the imported data.

I appreciate that all of this is what you describe as being no longer available to you. If it helps, I can confirm that it is still available in Excel 2016.

Perhaps the warning message will give us a clue?

All the best,

Cearbhall

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@blbc.ie


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ron Canazzi
Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2018 8:41 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Issue With Excel 2016

Hi Rich,


I have been using semi colon [;] for the delimiters for years from Excel
2000 up until Excel2016 just a few weeks ago. I never had this problem before. I save the text file with the standard txt extension. I use Notepad to create the files. The common parameters--which used to appear in the wizard when trying to import the file first ask 'what line of the import file you wish to begin at (the default is line 1) You click next and the second screen asks for the delimiter and I choose semi colon [;]. the next few screens have to do with formulas and other things that i just bypass and then click finish. This wizard like interface no longer occurs when I try the import of the text file. I get the Microsoft security warning which I dismiss and then this odd and new inaccessible interface.


Here are a few lines from the text file I have been trying to import.


Multimedia 363;1950 - The Littlest Angel - Lullaby of Christmas;01 - the littlest angel.mp3 Multimedia 363;1950 - The Littlest Angel - Lullaby of Christmas;02 - lullaby of christmas.mp3 Multimedia 363;baja marimba band - 2001 best of;01 along comes mary.mp3 Multimedia 363;baja marimba band - 2001 best of;02 juarez.mp3 Multimedia 363;baja marimba band - 2001 best of;03 comin' in the back
door.mp3
Multimedia 363;baja marimba band - 2001 best of;04 georgy girl.mp3



On 3/24/2018 8:32 AM, Rick wrote:
Hello Ron:

What file extension are you using for the file you are attempting to import? Excel has a common format (.csv) which stands for Comma Separated Variables, where each field is separated using a comma in the file. Each field in the line of text is then placed in a separate cell in a row. Each new line will begin another row in the worksheet.

Also, can you give us a few sample lines from the file you are attempting to import and the rules you want to apply to the import process?

Thanks, Rick

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ron
Canazzi
Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2018 7:45 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Issue With Excel 2016

Hello:


I open the existing Excel Work Book.

I then use open file and type in the path and file name of the delimited text file.


This used to work. I used to get a wizard of sorts that could have a
back, next and finish and step by step, I would be asked which column
I should start the import at, what delimited I should use and other
parameters I should use.


Now I get this odd inaccessible dialogue.



On 3/24/2018 6:50 AM, Cearbhall O'Meadhra wrote:
Hi Ron,

I am using excel 2016 in Windows 10 and a choice of both NVDA and JAWS 17. All are up to the latest versions.

I am curious about your issue as I do a lot of work with excel myself.

I have just created a tab delimited text file and imported it successfully. I tried using the File>Open dialog and the "Get external data" option on the Data Menu. Although the resulting dialog is different in each case, I found every part of the dialog fully accessible with NVDA.

In older versions of Excel, I used to import text files using the File>Open dialog. I was surprised to find that I cannot do this in excel 2016.

You don't say what technique you are using, but if you explain exactly what you have been attempting I would be happy to explore it with you and see what might have changed.


All the best,

Cearbhall

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e:
cearbhall.omeadhra@blbc.ie


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ron
Canazzi
Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2018 1:28 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Issue With Excel 2016

Hi Group,


For years, I have been using Microsoft Excel to make a simple spread sheet database for various of my music and movie files. I usually do this by creating a delimited text file using Notepad and then importing the file into Excel via the import data/text file item. For years this has worked. I would click the file and then I would get a Microsoft Security warning and then the file would open and a wizard of sorts would launch and ask me for the parameters: delimiters, beginning column, and so on.


However, now when I load an existing file into Excel, I get some sort of weird interface that doesn't seem to work with NVDA or JAWS and I am unable to complete the importation as I normally did.


I assume that either an update to Office 2016 or some other update to Windows 10 has changed some default setting in Excel that makes things operate differently. I have looked under options in the Excel program but I am unable to find what might be causing this difference. What setting could be changed to get things back to where they used to be for my Excel program?


Thanks for any help.


--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"







--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"






--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


Re: I take it there have been no improvements to the flawed espeak ng in 2017.4?

Sharni-Lee Ward
 

Does it still say "hoisted" and "Hoenn" weirdly? Because if it does I don't like it. I know I'm sounding nitpicky but seriously, Espeak was fine before some idiot had to go and break it, and I don't know why Speechplayer in Espeak says "hoist" so weirdly but I cannot bear it.


On 25/03/2018 7:28 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
However Speech player in Espeak works out of the box of course.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Sharni-Lee Ward" <sharni-lee.ward@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2018 7:50 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] I take it there have been no improvements to the flawed espeak ng in 2017.4?


The last time I tried something like that I broke Espeak so thoroughly that NVDA couldn't boot up and I had to uninstall and reinstall from a portable copy. And that was to try and fix a much more minor issue than this current one.


Words and phrases that I have found which are slurred include, but are not limited to: our, hour, they're, percent (the only one I've been able to fix so far), and the phrases "for the" and "for a". I'll probably be reminded of more in the future. Did others on the list just learn to put up with this or what?

On 25/03/2018 5:26 PM, Hareth wrote:

You can try to copy the "synthDrivers" folder from your preferred NVDA
version installation directory,
and replace it with the current NVDA release.
I'd assume it would work for you.

On 3/25/18, Sharni-Lee Ward <sharni-lee.ward@...><mailto:sharni-lee.ward@...> wrote:


Okay, I installed NVDA 2018.1, after creating a portable copy in case it
became too much to bear.


I don't like Eloquence because it isn't as crisp as Espeak. I have compared
it to A.M radio in the past, and Espeak to FM/CD Quality sound. Also, it has
only eight variants as opposed to Espeak's forty-something (I just realised
my lovingly customised alternate female variants have somehow been broken by
more recent changes which makes me sad, but I usually stick with Linda
anyway).


It's still doing the things that annoyed me in December, but I'm willing to
try and see if I get used to them.


I don't expect a program to be perfect. I don't expect a synth to be
perfect. I would like to hope that people don't break something that was
perfectly all right in a previous version, however.


And as for inflection, I have it set to 100% (GAH, it does the thing with
percent....), which makes Eloquence sound overly chipper, another reason I
don't enjoy that synth as much. By flat, I mean the voice does not use
perceptible inflection in the cases of question marks, commas and
exclamation points. This should not be something a blind user has to put up
with when it comes to synthesised voice. How is one supposed to know if the
statement is yelled or spoken calmly if the voice doesn't give it away? How
emotionally invested can they be in a story if there is no noticeable
inflection for something as basic as exclamations and question marks?



On 25/03/2018 4:54 PM, Gene wrote:
I need to correct one statement.  You can't, as it appears, change
inflection in Eloquence with NVDA.  I don't know what you consider flat.
But if you give Eloquence a chance, you may find that the amount of
inflection it uses is not bothersome to you.  You may want an exaggerated
amount of inflection.  I don't know how you have E-Speak set.  But you may
find that, if you give Eloquence a chance and get used to it, you may find
it generally superior over time.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene<mailto:gsasner@...><mailto:gsasner@...>
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2018 12:50 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io><mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io><mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] I take it there have been no improvements to the flawed
espeak ng in 2017.4?

Also, what's wrong with Eloquence?  Have you tried it  And as I recall, you
can adjust inflection with it.  Don't use the Brittish English voice. It's
obviously programmed by Americans amateurishly trying to imitate a Brittish
accent.  Use the default American English.  It pronounces a great many more
words correctly compared with e-speak.  And I use it very well with the NVDA
speech dictionary.  Are you familiar with the SAPI 5 demo you can try of
Eloquence?  Eloquence and Via Voice, the same synthesizer from a sound and
performance standpoint, are the most accurate in terms of proper
pronounciation of words in my experience.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io><mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io><mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io><mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io><mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>> On Behalf Of Sharni-Lee
Ward
Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2018 10:27 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io><mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io><mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: [nvda] I take it there have been no improvements to the flawed
espeak ng in 2017.4?

I've just caught up on all my emails. If I understood an earlier thread
correctly, despite our complaints when 2017.4 came out, the devs did not
roll back the version of espeak packaged with NVDA to the version in 2017.3,
which means that I will not be updating NVDA, despite the wonderful-sounding
new features.


Espeak, and subsequently Espeak NG, has been my default synth since I
started using NVDA. There was an issue in 2014 but I was able to get used to
that, and then it got fixed, so I was contented. The problems I found in the
espeak packaged with 2017.4 were more than I could stand, as someone who
primarily uses NVDA to read fanfiction and my own stories. However, Espeak
is among the only synths compatible with NVDA's inflection slider, which I
have maxed out for optimal performance. I'm not about to sacrifice broad
inflection for the drones of MS voices, and I'm currently using a Win 7
computer, but even if I was on a Win 10 one, the 1Core voices don't do it
for me either. They're pleasant, but also flat. No inflection. No way to
change the inflection. I can't stand human-sounding voices because they're
less flexible than synthetic ones in this regard. Also, nearly all non
Espeak voices are slow as well as flat, partially due to the length of
pauses between clauses of a sentence, and this is about as unbearable as the
flatness. And there is one more thing that really clinches my unwillingness
to change synths. I cannot get anything else to cooperate with my speech
dictionary. As I said, I read a lot of fanfiction, and I have put lots of
characters'
names and the names of Pokémon into my dictionary so that they are
pronounced properly. The other synths simply do not like these names, no
matter what I try to do with them, and some of them even pronounced my name
wrong, so I gave up on them.


This is why I want whoever's developing Espeak to roll back their changes to
a previous version (surely they have older versions backed up somewhere. I
would if I was developing something like this), and for NVDA to likewise
roll back the version packaged with it until the devs of the synth work out
how to alter one language without screwing up twenty others in the process.
I know I can only go so far before I am forced to update to the latest
version of NVDA or be left to languish as more and more things become
incompatible with the last tolerable version I have.


Please, I am begging you, do something about this.

























Re: I take it there have been no improvements to the flawed espeak ng in 2017.4?

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

However Speech player in Espeak works out of the box of course.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Sharni-Lee Ward" <sharni-lee.ward@hotmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2018 7:50 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] I take it there have been no improvements to the flawed espeak ng in 2017.4?


The last time I tried something like that I broke Espeak so thoroughly that NVDA couldn't boot up and I had to uninstall and reinstall from a portable copy. And that was to try and fix a much more minor issue than this current one.


Words and phrases that I have found which are slurred include, but are not limited to: our, hour, they're, percent (the only one I've been able to fix so far), and the phrases "for the" and "for a". I'll probably be reminded of more in the future. Did others on the list just learn to put up with this or what?

On 25/03/2018 5:26 PM, Hareth wrote:

You can try to copy the "synthDrivers" folder from your preferred NVDA
version installation directory,
and replace it with the current NVDA release.
I'd assume it would work for you.

On 3/25/18, Sharni-Lee Ward <sharni-lee.ward@hotmail.com><mailto:sharni-lee.ward@hotmail.com> wrote:


Okay, I installed NVDA 2018.1, after creating a portable copy in case it
became too much to bear.


I don't like Eloquence because it isn't as crisp as Espeak. I have compared
it to A.M radio in the past, and Espeak to FM/CD Quality sound. Also, it has
only eight variants as opposed to Espeak's forty-something (I just realised
my lovingly customised alternate female variants have somehow been broken by
more recent changes which makes me sad, but I usually stick with Linda
anyway).


It's still doing the things that annoyed me in December, but I'm willing to
try and see if I get used to them.


I don't expect a program to be perfect. I don't expect a synth to be
perfect. I would like to hope that people don't break something that was
perfectly all right in a previous version, however.


And as for inflection, I have it set to 100% (GAH, it does the thing with
percent....), which makes Eloquence sound overly chipper, another reason I
don't enjoy that synth as much. By flat, I mean the voice does not use
perceptible inflection in the cases of question marks, commas and
exclamation points. This should not be something a blind user has to put up
with when it comes to synthesised voice. How is one supposed to know if the
statement is yelled or spoken calmly if the voice doesn't give it away? How
emotionally invested can they be in a story if there is no noticeable
inflection for something as basic as exclamations and question marks?



On 25/03/2018 4:54 PM, Gene wrote:
I need to correct one statement. You can't, as it appears, change
inflection in Eloquence with NVDA. I don't know what you consider flat.
But if you give Eloquence a chance, you may find that the amount of
inflection it uses is not bothersome to you. You may want an exaggerated
amount of inflection. I don't know how you have E-Speak set. But you may
find that, if you give Eloquence a chance and get used to it, you may find
it generally superior over time.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene<mailto:gsasner@ripco.com><mailto:gsasner@ripco.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2018 12:50 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io><mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io><mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] I take it there have been no improvements to the flawed
espeak ng in 2017.4?

Also, what's wrong with Eloquence? Have you tried it And as I recall, you
can adjust inflection with it. Don't use the Brittish English voice. It's
obviously programmed by Americans amateurishly trying to imitate a Brittish
accent. Use the default American English. It pronounces a great many more
words correctly compared with e-speak. And I use it very well with the NVDA
speech dictionary. Are you familiar with the SAPI 5 demo you can try of
Eloquence? Eloquence and Via Voice, the same synthesizer from a sound and
performance standpoint, are the most accurate in terms of proper
pronounciation of words in my experience.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io><mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io><mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io><mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io><mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>> On Behalf Of Sharni-Lee
Ward
Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2018 10:27 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io><mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io><mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: [nvda] I take it there have been no improvements to the flawed
espeak ng in 2017.4?

I've just caught up on all my emails. If I understood an earlier thread
correctly, despite our complaints when 2017.4 came out, the devs did not
roll back the version of espeak packaged with NVDA to the version in 2017.3,
which means that I will not be updating NVDA, despite the wonderful-sounding
new features.


Espeak, and subsequently Espeak NG, has been my default synth since I
started using NVDA. There was an issue in 2014 but I was able to get used to
that, and then it got fixed, so I was contented. The problems I found in the
espeak packaged with 2017.4 were more than I could stand, as someone who
primarily uses NVDA to read fanfiction and my own stories. However, Espeak
is among the only synths compatible with NVDA's inflection slider, which I
have maxed out for optimal performance. I'm not about to sacrifice broad
inflection for the drones of MS voices, and I'm currently using a Win 7
computer, but even if I was on a Win 10 one, the 1Core voices don't do it
for me either. They're pleasant, but also flat. No inflection. No way to
change the inflection. I can't stand human-sounding voices because they're
less flexible than synthetic ones in this regard. Also, nearly all non
Espeak voices are slow as well as flat, partially due to the length of
pauses between clauses of a sentence, and this is about as unbearable as the
flatness. And there is one more thing that really clinches my unwillingness
to change synths. I cannot get anything else to cooperate with my speech
dictionary. As I said, I read a lot of fanfiction, and I have put lots of
characters'
names and the names of Pokémon into my dictionary so that they are
pronounced properly. The other synths simply do not like these names, no
matter what I try to do with them, and some of them even pronounced my name
wrong, so I gave up on them.


This is why I want whoever's developing Espeak to roll back their changes to
a previous version (surely they have older versions backed up somewhere. I
would if I was developing something like this), and for NVDA to likewise
roll back the version packaged with it until the devs of the synth work out
how to alter one language without screwing up twenty others in the process.
I know I can only go so far before I am forced to update to the latest
version of NVDA or be left to languish as more and more things become
incompatible with the last tolerable version I have.


Please, I am begging you, do something about this.



















Re: I take it there have been no improvements to the flawed espeak ng in 2017.4?

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Well I'm with you. I did ask at the time who was in charge of UK and US English now, as it does seem that things are slipping.

My guess as to why nvaccess use it is that some future or current features work better with it than the old code we had before NG and maybe other languages, particularly the Indian ones may be more reliable in NG, as India seems to me to be the biggest growth area for NVDA.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Sharni-Lee Ward" <sharni-lee.ward@hotmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2018 7:15 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] I take it there have been no improvements to the flawed espeak ng in 2017.4?


Okay, I installed NVDA 2018.1, after creating a portable copy in case it became too much to bear.


I don't like Eloquence because it isn't as crisp as Espeak. I have compared it to A.M radio in the past, and Espeak to FM/CD Quality sound. Also, it has only eight variants as opposed to Espeak's forty-something (I just realised my lovingly customised alternate female variants have somehow been broken by more recent changes which makes me sad, but I usually stick with Linda anyway).


It's still doing the things that annoyed me in December, but I'm willing to try and see if I get used to them.


I don't expect a program to be perfect. I don't expect a synth to be perfect. I would like to hope that people don't break something that was perfectly all right in a previous version, however.


And as for inflection, I have it set to 100% (GAH, it does the thing with percent....), which makes Eloquence sound overly chipper, another reason I don't enjoy that synth as much. By flat, I mean the voice does not use perceptible inflection in the cases of question marks, commas and exclamation points. This should not be something a blind user has to put up with when it comes to synthesised voice. How is one supposed to know if the statement is yelled or spoken calmly if the voice doesn't give it away? How emotionally invested can they be in a story if there is no noticeable inflection for something as basic as exclamations and question marks?



On 25/03/2018 4:54 PM, Gene wrote:
I need to correct one statement. You can't, as it appears, change inflection in Eloquence with NVDA. I don't know what you consider flat. But if you give Eloquence a chance, you may find that the amount of inflection it uses is not bothersome to you. You may want an exaggerated amount of inflection. I don't know how you have E-Speak set. But you may find that, if you give Eloquence a chance and get used to it, you may find it generally superior over time.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene<mailto:gsasner@ripco.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2018 12:50 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] I take it there have been no improvements to the flawed espeak ng in 2017.4?

Also, what's wrong with Eloquence? Have you tried it And as I recall, you can adjust inflection with it. Don't use the Brittish English voice. It's obviously programmed by Americans amateurishly trying to imitate a Brittish accent. Use the default American English. It pronounces a great many more words correctly compared with e-speak. And I use it very well with the NVDA speech dictionary. Are you familiar with the SAPI 5 demo you can try of Eloquence? Eloquence and Via Voice, the same synthesizer from a sound and performance standpoint, are the most accurate in terms of proper pronounciation of words in my experience.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> <nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>> On Behalf Of Sharni-Lee Ward
Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2018 10:27 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: [nvda] I take it there have been no improvements to the flawed espeak ng in 2017.4?

I've just caught up on all my emails. If I understood an earlier thread correctly, despite our complaints when 2017.4 came out, the devs did not roll back the version of espeak packaged with NVDA to the version in 2017.3, which means that I will not be updating NVDA, despite the wonderful-sounding new features.


Espeak, and subsequently Espeak NG, has been my default synth since I started using NVDA. There was an issue in 2014 but I was able to get used to that, and then it got fixed, so I was contented. The problems I found in the espeak packaged with 2017.4 were more than I could stand, as someone who primarily uses NVDA to read fanfiction and my own stories. However, Espeak is among the only synths compatible with NVDA's inflection slider, which I have maxed out for optimal performance. I'm not about to sacrifice broad inflection for the drones of MS voices, and I'm currently using a Win 7 computer, but even if I was on a Win 10 one, the 1Core voices don't do it for me either. They're pleasant, but also flat. No inflection. No way to change the inflection. I can't stand human-sounding voices because they're less flexible than synthetic ones in this regard. Also, nearly all non Espeak voices are slow as well as flat, partially due to the length of pauses between clauses of a sentence, and this is about as unbearable as the flatness. And there is one more thing that really clinches my unwillingness to change synths. I cannot get anything else to cooperate with my speech dictionary. As I said, I read a lot of fanfiction, and I have put lots of characters'
names and the names of Pokémon into my dictionary so that they are pronounced properly. The other synths simply do not like these names, no matter what I try to do with them, and some of them even pronounced my name wrong, so I gave up on them.


This is why I want whoever's developing Espeak to roll back their changes to a previous version (surely they have older versions backed up somewhere. I would if I was developing something like this), and for NVDA to likewise roll back the version packaged with it until the devs of the synth work out how to alter one language without screwing up twenty others in the process. I know I can only go so far before I am forced to update to the latest version of NVDA or be left to languish as more and more things become incompatible with the last tolerable version I have.


Please, I am begging you, do something about this.