Date   

Re: Patreon accessibility

Mike Sedmak
 

Is the problem specifically for creators? I am a patron of several
projects and have been able to change my payment method and level of
pledge.

Thanks,
Mike

On 4/3/18, Robert Kingett <kingettr@gmail.com> wrote:
The below email thread is a long running one about lack of accessibility
of the service. I know many who would like to use the service and who
can't edit their pages or change prices or cancel pledges or even use
the service. The app is actually worse than the website. I know many of
you are not patreon creators, but this is how I, and many others, make
money.


I am gonna call the below today. If anybody wants to send emails or make
phone calls, to try to get someone, let me know. clearly, he likes
ignoring emails.


Tal Raviv
Product Manager
phone: 561.789.1015

tal@patreon.com


On 4/3/2018 11:10 AM, Nicolas Steenhout wrote:
Hello again Tal,

I haven't heard from you for nearly a week on my latest email, and for
nearly 3 weeks on my previous email.

I have included Robert Kingett on this email as he is a blind
individual who is unable to use Patreon. He is interested in speaking
to people at Patreon on improving accessibility.

Thank you

Nic

On Thu, Mar 29, 2018 at 1:04 PM, Nicolas Steenhout <nic@incl.ca
<mailto:nic@incl.ca>> wrote:

Hello again,

Are you able to give me an update? It's now been 10 months since I
first reached out to you about accessibility. I did not hear back
from you about who I can speak within Patreon to get this moving.

I have people who want to become my patron, but are unable to use
the site because of the accessibility issues. Your lack of
movement is costing me money.

I also know artists and podcasters with disabilities who want to
put their projects on Patreon, but who are unable to join because
Patreon is not accessible.

It would be great if Patreon came to accessibility willingly
rather than dragging their feet to it.

Thank you for a PROMPT response.

Nic

On Fri, Feb 16, 2018 at 4:35 PM, Nicolas Steenhout <nic@incl.ca
<mailto:nic@incl.ca>> wrote:

Thank you.

I'm sorry, but "it's on our list and in our consciousness"
isn't good
enough anymore. It's been well over 6 months that I initially
contacted Patreon about this issue.

To say "it's on our list", is basically paying lip service to
something that impacts a large minority. Promises without
action are
empty.

Who can I speak to within Patreon that can provide more
information
and act on it?

Thank you

Nic

On Fri, Feb 16, 2018 at 4:08 PM, Tal Raviv <tal@patreon.com
<mailto:tal@patreon.com>> wrote:
> Nicolas, thanks for the ping. It's on our list and in our
consciousness, and
> I can't externally provide dates.
>
> Tal Raviv
> Product Manager
> 561.789.1015
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 16, 2018 at 10:24 AM, Nicolas Steenhout
<nic@incl.ca <mailto:nic@incl.ca>> wrote:
>>
>> Hello again Tal,
>>
>> I'm reviving this conversation because it's been nearly 6
months with
>> no movement on Patreon's part on this.
>>
>> What are you going to do to improve accessibility?
>> When are you going to do it?
>>
>> Nic
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 8:08 PM, Tal Raviv <tal@patreon.com
<mailto:tal@patreon.com>> wrote:
>> > Yep, to be clear we're not creating an accessibility API.
>> >
>> > I appreciate the deep insights, and I agree we have major
problems. That
>> > is
>> > an impressive list. I can think of additional bad
situations that are
>> > also
>> > very embarrassing, from our own experiences internally.
>> >
>> > We need to fix this. Period. I can't share too much more
about our
>> > difficult
>> > internal decisions, but I can tell you that this is
something that
>> > everyone
>> > on the product team is aligned with and knows is
important as Patreon
>> > grows
>> > to become a significant membership engine. We also know that
>> > accessibility
>> > is a scale we need to climb and do not want to treat as a
checkbox and
>> > must
>> > be respected as an ongoing commitment.
>> >
>> > Let's stay in touch. When this comes near, we will need
help.
>> >
>> > Tal
>> >
>> > Tal Raviv
>> > Product Manager, Growth and Platform
>> > 561.789.1015
>> >
>> >
>> > On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 11:49 AM, Nicolas Steenhout
<nic@incl.ca <mailto:nic@incl.ca>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Hello again Tal,
>> >>
>> >> If you'll allow me to be candid - I think your approach
of doing an
>> >> accessibility API is entirely the wrong approach. This
is pretty much
>> >> akin
>> >> to relying on 3rd party vendors to offer accessibility.
It's an
>> >> approach
>> >> that doesn't work. I know - I've been working in this
field for over
>> >> two
>> >> decades and I've see it over and over.
>> >>
>> >> I'm not saying APIs are bad, but they should not be your
first solution
>> >> for accessibility.
>> >>
>> >> There are several relatively simple fixes you can do on
the site that
>> >> would increase accessibility. Some of the issues
encountered throughout
>> >> the
>> >> site include:
>> >>
>> >> - Missing alt text
>> >> - Missing form labels
>> >> - Empty links
>> >> - Empty buttons
>> >> - Poor visual focus for sighted keyboard only users
>> >> - Skipped headings making the document structure hard to
understand.
>> >> - Orphaned form labels
>> >> - Redundant links (2 links side by side going to the
same place)
>> >> - Links coded as buttons
>> >>
>> >> And these were found in less than 5 minutes looking at
the different
>> >> sections of the site. I think it would be fair to say
that these issues
>> >> apply at all workflows on Patreon.
>> >>
>> >> I would *strongly* suggest that your team spend some
time analysing the
>> >> pages from an accessibility perspective. Try to use the
site with only
>> >> the
>> >> keyboard. Use VoiceOver (if you're on OS X) or download
NVDA if you're
>> >> on
>> >> Windows. Try to navigate the site that way. Look at each
page using an
>> >> automated accessibility checker (keep in mind these tend
to capture
>> >> only
>> >> about 40% of the issues, but they'll give you a great
overview of all
>> >> the
>> >> pages you have). Tools like tenon.io <http://tenon.io>
or WebAIM's WAVE toolbar can help
>> >> you
>> >> identify many issues quite quickly.
>> >>
>> >> And if you feel you don't have the expertise on your
team to make it
>> >> happen, hire someone who does that. Obviously, I'd love
to put myself
>> >> forward to provide assessment and training to your teams
- it's what I
>> >> do.
>> >> There are many good, reputable outfits out there that
could also help.
>> >>
>> >> Nic
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 1:55 PM, Tal Raviv
<tal@patreon.com <mailto:tal@patreon.com>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Hi Nic - that's really good information. Can you
elaborate on their
>> >>> troubles? One initiative is that we are working hard on
our API
>> >>> platform.
>> >>> This will allow many other apps and readers and other
content
>> >>> platforms to
>> >>> deliver and gate content to approach accessibility in a
high-leverage
>> >>> way.
>> >>> I'd love to have a quick description/understanding of
their issues
>> >>> (content
>> >>> related, payment related, etc)
>> >>>
>> >>> Tal Raviv
>> >>> Product Manager, Growth and Platform
>> >>> 561.789.1015
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 10:14 AM, Nicolas Steenhout
<nic@incl.ca <mailto:nic@incl.ca>>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Thank you for the update.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Are you able to share what these initatives are? Is
there any way I
>> >>>> can
>> >>>> help?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I have *several* people who need accessibility that
aren't able to
>> >>>> access my podcasts about accessibility on Patreon.
This is beyond
>> >>>> important
>> >>>> to me.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Thank you
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Nic
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 12:40 PM, Tal Raviv
<tal@patreon.com <mailto:tal@patreon.com>> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Hi Nicolas, very much agreed this is important. I
appreciate the
>> >>>>> follow
>> >>>>> up and keeping this top of mind.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Right now we have prioritized a few initiatives that are
>> >>>>> mission-critical in order to be able to address
accessibility. Not
>> >>>>> my ideal
>> >>>>> answer - will keep you posted.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Tal
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Tal Raviv
>> >>>>> Product Manager, Growth and Platform
>> >>>>> 561.789.1015
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> On Thu, Oct 5, 2017 at 11:46 AM, Nicolas Steenhout
<nic@incl.ca <mailto:nic@incl.ca>>
>> >>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Hello Tal,
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> It's been nearly 3 months since we discussed
accessibility at
>> >>>>>> Patreon.
>> >>>>>> Are you able to give me an indication as to when the
accessibility
>> >>>>>> team will
>> >>>>>> be in place and starting work on these important
issues?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Thank you.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Nic
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> On Fri, Jul 7, 2017 at 2:44 PM, Tal Raviv
<tal@patreon.com <mailto:tal@patreon.com>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Hi Nicolas,
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Perfect and thank you for reaching out. We have
done some scoping
>> >>>>>>> of
>> >>>>>>> accessibility, enough to know how bad we are at it.
We are
>> >>>>>>> spinning up a
>> >>>>>>> team that would officially own this aspect of our
product,
>> >>>>>>> including other
>> >>>>>>> frontend infrastructure. Now that we've grown to
much greater
>> >>>>>>> reach than
>> >>>>>>> ever before, creator and patron accessibility is
super important
>> >>>>>>> to us
>> >>>>>>> moving forward.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Although I have scoped this in the past, will not
be leading this
>> >>>>>>> team, and I will share your information with those
who will do
>> >>>>>>> that to reach
>> >>>>>>> out when they finish staffing and forming it.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Tal
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Tal Raviv
>> >>>>>>> Product Manager, Growth and Platform
>> >>>>>>> 561.789.1015
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 7, 2017 at 9:48 AM, Nicolas Steenhout
<nic@incl.ca <mailto:nic@incl.ca>>
>> >>>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Hello Tal,
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Adam gave me your name and email address and said
you were the
>> >>>>>>>> best
>> >>>>>>>> person to speak to about improving web
accessibility for Patreon.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> As I was telling him, I'm interested in using the
platform as a
>> >>>>>>>> Creator, but my field of expertise is web
accessibility and it
>> >>>>>>>> would be
>> >>>>>>>> great if Patreon were to be accessible to people with
>> >>>>>>>> disabilities.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> I'm not sure how much work or digging you guys
have done in that
>> >>>>>>>> area at this point. There are several things I
could do with you
>> >>>>>>>> to work on
>> >>>>>>>> improving, including providing training to your
design, dev and
>> >>>>>>>> QA teams to
>> >>>>>>>> running an audit, and even helping directly with
remediation if
>> >>>>>>>> you want.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> I had a very quick look and noticed several issues
that would be
>> >>>>>>>> easy fixes and quick wins. Some other areas would
require a
>> >>>>>>>> deeper analysis
>> >>>>>>>> and a bit more work.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Perhaps the best thing would be to get on a call
at some point
>> >>>>>>>> next
>> >>>>>>>> week and see where you're at and how we can work
together to
>> >>>>>>>> improve things?
>> >>>>>>>> My schedule is pretty open so please let me know
what a good time
>> >>>>>>>> for you
>> >>>>>>>> would be.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Thank you
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Nic
>> >>>>>>>> http://incl.ca
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >
>
>



Re: A weird problem with NVDA and Windows 10

Gene
 

We don't know how much ram is in the machine nor if any of it is being used.  I doubt that what you are describing would be caused by the swap file.  If it were, then why does the problem only occur after inactivity.  the swap file, if too much information is being exchanged to be held in RAM, wouldn't just be written to after a certain period of inactivity. 
 
Also, the information being stored in the swap file would change over time and the same symptom wouldn't be the only one.  In this case, the only symptom reported is an inability to use the computer after a period of inactivity.
 
This sounds as though something is occurring after that time.  I don't know what nor do I know what is going on that the problem appears not to be present when NVDA is not used.  Whatever the problem, I consider disk problems to be the least likely.
 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2018 9:36 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] A weird problem with NVDA and Windows 10

Gene,

A corrupt part of the disk can cause problems with a particular file that can be causing a problem like this.

Perhaps the swap file is writing to a bad sector.

Glenn

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, April 02, 2018 11:09 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] A weird problem with NVDA and Windows 10

 

I see that not using NVDA causes the problem not to happen so that part is solved.  I don't see how this is a disk problem.  I think the relevant part of the NVDA log needs to be sent to the list so people who know enough technically can see what might be happening.  Others on the list can tell you how to submit the log. 

 

What is NVDA doing or what isn't working properly after a time of not being used?  Of course, I may be wrong but I am more than skeptical that a hard drive problem has anything to do with the problem. 

 

I still think the power settings should be checked.  I don't know how likely this is, but it still could be that something, the hard drive, the monitor, something, is turning off and can't turn on properly if NVDA is running.  It may be that the computer is going into something like sleep or standbye and isn't turning on properly when NVDA is running.  Or perhaps keyboard input isn't being properly received when this happens when NVDA is running.  I think the hard drive is the least of the possibilities.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Monday, April 02, 2018 4:57 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] A weird problem with NVDA and Windows 10

 

Yes, I tried it without NVDA and that's ok. No problem using my computer.

About CHKDSK, how I can proceed to use it?

Em 02/04/2018 18:50, Ervin, Glenn escreveu:

Have you tried it without NVDA running?
It sounds more like an operating system problem, and not NVDA.
I would recommend unloading NVDA and load Narrator and see if it still happens.
If it only happens with NVDA, you could reinstall it.
If it does not happen with Narrator, I would try a chkdsk in tools of the drive properties.
HTH.
Glenn
 
-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of marcio via Groups.Io
Sent: Monday, April 02, 2018 4:24 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] A weird problem with NVDA and Windows 10
 
Hi guys,
My NVDA is having a strange and very annoying problem.
It happens that when I stay too much time far from my computer, when I come back my screen is totally frozen and there's nothing I can do about. Mouse and keyboard aparently don't receive my commands, my computer just stays there, out of any action.
The only thing I can do, obviously, is to manually restart it and then all seems to back to normality.
How I can resolve this problem? I'll really appreciate if there's a solution for my cyber nightmare haha
 
Cheers
Marcio
 
 
 
 
 
 

 


Re: A weird problem with NVDA and Windows 10

Ervin, Glenn
 

Gene,

It is never a bad thing to do a disk check, so it is always worth a try.

Glenn

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2018 11:31 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] A weird problem with NVDA and Windows 10

 

None of the messages said anything about settings being changed.  We don't know if they were or not.  there is no reason to assume what the default settings were.  I don't know how they may change from one manufacturer to another.  The default settings may be causing the problem.  Also, just because nothing was said about settings being changed doesn't mean that no settings were.  People are notorious for leaving out relevant information when reporting problems because they are unaware of its relevance or because they don't know something was done. 

 

The suggestion to try using Narrator is a good one.  But nothing in the description suggests that anything related to the hard drive has anything to do with the problem.  The problem occurs after a period of inactivity.  That suggests something that occurs after such a time such as a power setting.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Ervin, Glenn

Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2018 9:33 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] A weird problem with NVDA and Windows 10

 

Gene,

I too thought it sounded like a power setting, however, if nothing had been changed, it would not likely be the issue.

I suppose the PS could be starting to go, and not charging the battery well.

Glenn

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, April 02, 2018 11:00 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] A weird problem with NVDA and Windows 10

 

I don't see how this has anything to do with a disk problem.  Something happens if the computer is not used for a certain period of time.  Check the power settings in the computer.  Is it set to always on?  Is anything specified to happen after a certain period of time such as that the hard drive will stop or something else will stop or that the computer will go into stand by or sleep?  Dis problems cause data to not be properly written to disk and to be lost or corrupted or cause data not to be properly read from the disk and to be corrupted or lost in that way.  This sounds like a power management problem.  Make sure the always on setting is being used.  If it is being used now, the problem needs more investigation.  If it isn't being used now, use it and see what happens.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Ervin, Glenn

Sent: Monday, April 02, 2018 4:50 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] A weird problem with NVDA and Windows 10

 

Have you tried it without NVDA running?
It sounds more like an operating system problem, and not NVDA.
I would recommend unloading NVDA and load Narrator and see if it still happens.
If it only happens with NVDA, you could reinstall it.
If it does not happen with Narrator, I would try a chkdsk in tools of the drive properties.
HTH.
Glenn

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of marcio via Groups.Io
Sent: Monday, April 02, 2018 4:24 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] A weird problem with NVDA and Windows 10

Hi guys,
My NVDA is having a strange and very annoying problem.
It happens that when I stay too much time far from my computer, when I come back my screen is totally frozen and there's nothing I can do about. Mouse and keyboard aparently don't receive my commands, my computer just stays there, out of any action.
The only thing I can do, obviously, is to manually restart it and then all seems to back to normality.
How I can resolve this problem? I'll really appreciate if there's a solution for my cyber nightmare haha

Cheers
Marcio





Re: A weird problem with NVDA and Windows 10

Gene
 

None of the messages said anything about settings being changed.  We don't know if they were or not.  there is no reason to assume what the default settings were.  I don't know how they may change from one manufacturer to another.  The default settings may be causing the problem.  Also, just because nothing was said about settings being changed doesn't mean that no settings were.  People are notorious for leaving out relevant information when reporting problems because they are unaware of its relevance or because they don't know something was done. 
 
The suggestion to try using Narrator is a good one.  But nothing in the description suggests that anything related to the hard drive has anything to do with the problem.  The problem occurs after a period of inactivity.  That suggests something that occurs after such a time such as a power setting.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2018 9:33 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] A weird problem with NVDA and Windows 10

Gene,

I too thought it sounded like a power setting, however, if nothing had been changed, it would not likely be the issue.

I suppose the PS could be starting to go, and not charging the battery well.

Glenn

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, April 02, 2018 11:00 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] A weird problem with NVDA and Windows 10

 

I don't see how this has anything to do with a disk problem.  Something happens if the computer is not used for a certain period of time.  Check the power settings in the computer.  Is it set to always on?  Is anything specified to happen after a certain period of time such as that the hard drive will stop or something else will stop or that the computer will go into stand by or sleep?  Dis problems cause data to not be properly written to disk and to be lost or corrupted or cause data not to be properly read from the disk and to be corrupted or lost in that way.  This sounds like a power management problem.  Make sure the always on setting is being used.  If it is being used now, the problem needs more investigation.  If it isn't being used now, use it and see what happens.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Ervin, Glenn

Sent: Monday, April 02, 2018 4:50 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] A weird problem with NVDA and Windows 10

 

Have you tried it without NVDA running?
It sounds more like an operating system problem, and not NVDA.
I would recommend unloading NVDA and load Narrator and see if it still happens.
If it only happens with NVDA, you could reinstall it.
If it does not happen with Narrator, I would try a chkdsk in tools of the drive properties.
HTH.
Glenn

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of marcio via Groups.Io
Sent: Monday, April 02, 2018 4:24 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] A weird problem with NVDA and Windows 10

Hi guys,
My NVDA is having a strange and very annoying problem.
It happens that when I stay too much time far from my computer, when I come back my screen is totally frozen and there's nothing I can do about. Mouse and keyboard aparently don't receive my commands, my computer just stays there, out of any action.
The only thing I can do, obviously, is to manually restart it and then all seems to back to normality.
How I can resolve this problem? I'll really appreciate if there's a solution for my cyber nightmare haha

Cheers
Marcio






Re: Patreon accessibility

 

The below email thread is a long running one about lack of accessibility of the service. I know many who would like to use the service and who can't edit their pages or change prices or cancel pledges or even use the service. The app is actually worse than the website. I know many of you are not patreon creators, but this is how I, and many others, make money.


I am gonna call the below today. If anybody wants to send emails or make phone calls, to try to get someone, let me know. clearly, he likes ignoring emails.


Tal Raviv
Product Manager
phone: 561.789.1015

tal@...


On 4/3/2018 11:10 AM, Nicolas Steenhout wrote:
Hello again Tal,

I haven't heard from you for nearly a week on my latest email, and for nearly 3 weeks on my previous email.

I have included Robert Kingett on this email as he is a blind individual who is unable to use Patreon. He is interested in speaking to people at Patreon on improving accessibility.

Thank you

Nic

On Thu, Mar 29, 2018 at 1:04 PM, Nicolas Steenhout <nic@...> wrote:
Hello again,

Are you able to give me an update? It's now been 10 months since I first reached out to you about accessibility. I did not hear back from you about who I can speak within Patreon to get this moving.

I have people who want to become my patron, but are unable to use the site because of the accessibility issues. Your lack of movement is costing me money.

I also know artists and podcasters with disabilities who want to put their projects on Patreon, but who are unable to join because Patreon is not accessible.

It would be great if Patreon came to accessibility willingly rather than dragging their feet to it.

Thank you for a PROMPT response.

Nic

On Fri, Feb 16, 2018 at 4:35 PM, Nicolas Steenhout <nic@...> wrote:
Thank you.

I'm sorry, but "it's on our list and in our consciousness" isn't good
enough anymore. It's been well over 6 months that I initially
contacted Patreon about this issue.

To say "it's on our list", is basically paying lip service to
something that impacts a large minority. Promises without action are
empty.

Who can I speak to within Patreon that can provide more information
and act on it?

Thank you

Nic

On Fri, Feb 16, 2018 at 4:08 PM, Tal Raviv <tal@...> wrote:
> Nicolas, thanks for the ping. It's on our list and in our consciousness, and
> I can't externally provide dates.
>
> Tal Raviv
> Product Manager
> 561.789.1015
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 16, 2018 at 10:24 AM, Nicolas Steenhout <nic@...> wrote:
>>
>> Hello again Tal,
>>
>> I'm reviving this conversation because it's been nearly 6 months with
>> no movement on Patreon's part on this.
>>
>> What are you going to do to improve accessibility?
>> When are you going to do it?
>>
>> Nic
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 8:08 PM, Tal Raviv <tal@...> wrote:
>> > Yep, to be clear we're not creating an accessibility API.
>> >
>> > I appreciate the deep insights, and I agree we have major problems. That
>> > is
>> > an impressive list. I can think of additional bad situations that are
>> > also
>> > very embarrassing, from our own experiences internally.
>> >
>> > We need to fix this. Period. I can't share too much more about our
>> > difficult
>> > internal decisions, but I can tell you that this is something that
>> > everyone
>> > on the product team is aligned with and knows is important as Patreon
>> > grows
>> > to become a significant membership engine. We also know that
>> > accessibility
>> > is a scale we need to climb and do not want to treat as a checkbox and
>> > must
>> > be respected as an ongoing commitment.
>> >
>> > Let's stay in touch. When this comes near, we will need help.
>> >
>> > Tal
>> >
>> > Tal Raviv
>> > Product Manager, Growth and Platform
>> > 561.789.1015
>> >
>> >
>> > On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 11:49 AM, Nicolas Steenhout <nic@...> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Hello again Tal,
>> >>
>> >> If you'll allow me to be candid - I think your approach of doing an
>> >> accessibility API is entirely the wrong approach. This is pretty much
>> >> akin
>> >> to relying on 3rd party vendors to offer accessibility. It's an
>> >> approach
>> >> that doesn't work. I know - I've been working in this field for over
>> >> two
>> >> decades and I've see it over and over.
>> >>
>> >> I'm not saying APIs are bad, but they should not be your first solution
>> >> for accessibility.
>> >>
>> >> There are several relatively simple fixes you can do on the site that
>> >> would increase accessibility. Some of the issues encountered throughout
>> >> the
>> >> site include:
>> >>
>> >> - Missing alt text
>> >> - Missing form labels
>> >> - Empty links
>> >> - Empty buttons
>> >> - Poor visual focus for sighted keyboard only users
>> >> - Skipped headings making the document structure hard to understand.
>> >> - Orphaned form labels
>> >> - Redundant links (2 links side by side going to the same place)
>> >> - Links coded as buttons
>> >>
>> >> And these were found in less than 5 minutes looking at the different
>> >> sections of the site. I think it would be fair to say that these issues
>> >> apply at all workflows on Patreon.
>> >>
>> >> I would *strongly* suggest that your team spend some time analysing the
>> >> pages from an accessibility perspective. Try to use the site with only
>> >> the
>> >> keyboard. Use VoiceOver (if you're on OS X) or download NVDA if you're
>> >> on
>> >> Windows. Try to navigate the site that way. Look at each page using an
>> >> automated accessibility checker (keep in mind these tend to capture
>> >> only
>> >> about 40% of the issues, but they'll give you a great overview of all
>> >> the
>> >> pages you have). Tools like tenon.io or WebAIM's WAVE toolbar can help
>> >> you
>> >> identify many issues quite quickly.
>> >>
>> >> And if you feel you don't have the expertise on your team to make it
>> >> happen, hire someone who does that. Obviously, I'd love to put myself
>> >> forward to provide assessment and training to your teams - it's what I
>> >> do.
>> >> There are many good, reputable outfits out there that could also help.
>> >>
>> >> Nic
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 1:55 PM, Tal Raviv <tal@...> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Hi Nic - that's really good information. Can you elaborate on their
>> >>> troubles? One initiative is that we are working hard on our API
>> >>> platform.
>> >>> This will allow many other apps and readers and other content
>> >>> platforms to
>> >>> deliver and gate content to approach accessibility in a high-leverage
>> >>> way.
>> >>> I'd love to have a quick description/understanding of their issues
>> >>> (content
>> >>> related, payment related, etc)
>> >>>
>> >>> Tal Raviv
>> >>> Product Manager, Growth and Platform
>> >>> 561.789.1015
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 10:14 AM, Nicolas Steenhout <nic@...>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Thank you for the update.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Are you able to share what these initatives are? Is there any way I
>> >>>> can
>> >>>> help?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I have *several* people who need accessibility that aren't able to
>> >>>> access my podcasts about accessibility on Patreon. This is beyond
>> >>>> important
>> >>>> to me.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Thank you
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Nic
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 12:40 PM, Tal Raviv <tal@...> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Hi Nicolas, very much agreed this is important. I appreciate the
>> >>>>> follow
>> >>>>> up and keeping this top of mind.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Right now we have prioritized a few initiatives that are
>> >>>>> mission-critical in order to be able to address accessibility. Not
>> >>>>> my ideal
>> >>>>> answer - will keep you posted.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Tal
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Tal Raviv
>> >>>>> Product Manager, Growth and Platform
>> >>>>> 561.789.1015
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> On Thu, Oct 5, 2017 at 11:46 AM, Nicolas Steenhout <nic@...>
>> >>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Hello Tal,
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> It's been nearly 3 months since we discussed accessibility at
>> >>>>>> Patreon.
>> >>>>>> Are you able to give me an indication as to when the accessibility
>> >>>>>> team will
>> >>>>>> be in place and starting work on these important issues?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Thank you.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Nic
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> On Fri, Jul 7, 2017 at 2:44 PM, Tal Raviv <tal@...> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Hi Nicolas,
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Perfect and thank you for reaching out. We have done some scoping
>> >>>>>>> of
>> >>>>>>> accessibility, enough to know how bad we are at it. We are
>> >>>>>>> spinning up a
>> >>>>>>> team that would officially own this aspect of our product,
>> >>>>>>> including other
>> >>>>>>> frontend infrastructure. Now that we've grown to much greater
>> >>>>>>> reach than
>> >>>>>>> ever before, creator and patron accessibility is super important
>> >>>>>>> to us
>> >>>>>>> moving forward.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Although I have scoped this in the past, will not be leading this
>> >>>>>>> team, and I will share your information with those who will do
>> >>>>>>> that to reach
>> >>>>>>> out when they finish staffing and forming it.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Tal
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Tal Raviv
>> >>>>>>> Product Manager, Growth and Platform
>> >>>>>>> 561.789.1015
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 7, 2017 at 9:48 AM, Nicolas Steenhout <nic@...>
>> >>>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Hello Tal,
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Adam gave me your name and email address and said you were the
>> >>>>>>>> best
>> >>>>>>>> person to speak to about improving web accessibility for Patreon.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> As I was telling him, I'm interested in using the platform as a
>> >>>>>>>> Creator, but my field of expertise is web accessibility and it
>> >>>>>>>> would be
>> >>>>>>>> great if Patreon were to be accessible to people with
>> >>>>>>>> disabilities.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> I'm not sure how much work or digging you guys have done in that
>> >>>>>>>> area at this point. There are several things I could do with you
>> >>>>>>>> to work on
>> >>>>>>>> improving, including providing training to your design, dev and
>> >>>>>>>> QA teams to
>> >>>>>>>> running an audit, and even helping directly with remediation if
>> >>>>>>>> you want.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> I had a very quick look and noticed several issues that would be
>> >>>>>>>> easy fixes and quick wins. Some other areas would require a
>> >>>>>>>> deeper analysis
>> >>>>>>>> and a bit more work.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Perhaps the best thing would be to get on a call at some point
>> >>>>>>>> next
>> >>>>>>>> week and see where you're at and how we can work together to
>> >>>>>>>> improve things?
>> >>>>>>>> My schedule is pretty open so please let me know what a good time
>> >>>>>>>> for you
>> >>>>>>>> would be.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Thank you
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Nic
>> >>>>>>>> http://incl.ca
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >
>
>




Re: Blindspot may need to close because of Spotify's changing API.

Gene
 

And we don't know if or when Blind Spot will no longer be compatible.  The subject line says may need to close.  And I looked at the thread linked to.  I don't understand the technical aspects well but it appears that such changes have been proposed for two or three years.  Maybe it isn't time to change anything yet if you want to use what you have been using.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2018 8:53 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Blindspot may need to close because of Spotify's changing API.

Also I think i heard somewhere that Google Play music, has a Windows
program that allows you to listen online, and/or download your music
onto the computer, especially good for folks like my Dad because of
generational things, he wants for music to be available on his mP3 Sansa
player, USB and other media he can listen to wihtout depending of an app
and a SmartPHone.
El 02/04/2018 a las 11:43 a.m., Perry Simm via Groups.Io escribió:
> Hello,
> as far as an accessible web interface is concerned, I can recommend Google Play Music. It uses headings, has keyboard shortcuts, all buttons have reasonable descriptions, and if used with Chrome it doesn't even require the security risk called Flash. It's an accessibility success story too few people know about, in sharp contrast to Spotify which, in my opinion, never really cared.
> Cheers Perry
>
>
> ​Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.​
>
> ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
>
> On April 2, 2018 3:28 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists@...> wrote:
>
>> No connection whatsoever with this, but in this age of inclusively, should
>>
>> not a company now about to or is listed not be actually trying to increase
>>
>> their electronic footfall, rather than chucking people off who are blind.
>>
>> its probably against the law in many countries, but as we often see, if you
>>
>> are a powerful entity, you can do what you like. Some companies consider
>>
>> social responsibility to be cheap to comply with and gives them brownie
>>
>> points, while others carry on as if they were in a time 40 years ago.
>>
>> I'll say no more but I had thought with flash being discontinued the age
>>
>> of inaccessible web content was over.
>>
>> Brian
>>
>> bglists@...
>>
>> Sent via blueyonder.
>>
>> Please address personal E-mail to:-
>>
>> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
>>
>> in the display name field.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>
>> From: "Robert Kingett" kingettr@...
>>
>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>
>> Sent: Monday, April 02, 2018 2:46 PM
>>
>> Subject: [nvda] Blindspot may need to close because of Spotify's changing
>>
>> API.
>>
>>> Per Spotify's new API requirements,
>>>
>>> meaning, they are killing off one in favor of the other, in this case,
>>>
>>> web... means that accessible apps like BlindSpot may not work anymore. It
>>>
>>> is a huge shame, but not at all shocking. The Git link is below to the
>>>
>>> thread.
>>>
>>> Before anybody asks, because I know many will, and not bother looking it
>>>
>>> up, blindspot is an accessible, windowless, alternative application to
>>>
>>> Spotify that works using the keyboard only, and is only on Windows. The
>>>
>>> issue thread is below.
>>>
>>> https://github.com/craigbrett17/blindspot/issues/38
>>
>
>
>
>

--
Gera
Enviado desde Thunderbird




Re: Blindspot may need to close because of Spotify's changing API.

Gene
 

I'm not sure what the implications are of the change being proposed.  Does it mean that Spotify will continue to function as it did except that specific things like the windowless app won't function?  If so, then you can probably use Spotify radio.  You may be able to save a link, as you do in a browser, for a certain Spotify radio stream.  I don't use Spotify features to any extent.  I listen to albums or parts of albums.  I've almost never useed Spotify radio.  But, as with Spotify Radio, which you say you want to use, if you tell the list specifically how you want to use Spotify, you may get suggestions. 
 
If people send only general information when they have very specific uses in mind, they significantly lower the chances for getting effective help.  So far, we have no idea if anything significant will have to change in what you can and can't do.  It may just be a matter of learning a different way to do things or having certain things you can't do while having certain things you still can. 
 
You may also want, especially if the amount you can do is reduced, to use Spotify as a free service.  Paying for it, which is necessary to use the app we are discussing, may not be necessary for the other way or ways you can do things.  Sound won't be as good, though it's acceptable, and you'll hear commercials, but you won't be paying for a degraded service.
 
Gene 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2018 8:08 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Blindspot may need to close because of Spotify's changing API.

Hey guys! and gals. I will check out some suggestions in the thread, but I don't want to download music just so I can play it. I use the radio function on Spotify to write to artists similar to say, Owl City, for example. I guess I can just continue to use Hope. Accessible pandora application. I will see if Google Music has a radio like option and look at all of the other suggestions, but I am not interested in downloading music or storing it somewhere to be played. I guess it's a generational thing, I guess. I like the, pay once, get access to seemingly unlimited albums without downloading anything. Still, great suggestions! Eager to check them out! Yeah, I love blindspot too and use it daily. It's a shame. while the windows version is usable, it's half assed accessible. For instance, the options dialog does not read unless moving the review cursor around. It seems like they just want to appease us. Hey, I absolutely hated Flash to begin with, even when I could see. I always removed it straight away when I imaged a new laptop. Off to try the other services! Toodles!


Re: A weird problem with NVDA and Windows 10

Gene
 

You should do a reboot of Windows after awhile if you either leave it on, or use hibernate or stand by.  Just as you should do a full reboot of
Windows after awhile if you leave the computer on, using hibernate or stand by stops, or mostly shuts down the actual computer, depending on the option you use, but it doesn't reboot Windows.  but leaving on a machine or using stand by or hibernate for many days or perhaps a week or even longer shouldn't result in bad performance.  After awhile, it will cause problems.  You can experiment if you wish to see how long it takes.  It varies depending on how you use the computer and perhaps on other things.  Some people may have to reboot every four or five days, some people may be able to go for seven days or longer.  Or you may just want to arbitrarily pick a number of days such as four or five and then reboot.  As with memory, there is an enormous amount of inaccurate information passed around on this subject.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2018 6:08 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] A weird problem with NVDA and Windows 10

Yes indeed, it allows windows to do a reasonable job of deleting temp files
and other stuff that way. I used to leave my machine in hibernate, and at
first this seemed to be good, but after a few days it was slowing down and a
complete restart fixed it. Not the issue here but a lesson learned.

I agree with Gene that its most likely to be power settings or an nvda
misconfigure or just something odd in the software of that particular laptop
maker which we are unaware of.
 Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Shaun Everiss" <sm.everiss@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2018 12:16 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] A weird problem with NVDA and Windows 10


>I have this with a user with an older system, which is at least for now
>dead.
>
> He seems to like to leave it with windows open locked ofcause, and well
> its on all night.
>
> The system is often locked up or really sluggish till I restart it.
>
> My general rule is if I am gone for a few hours at home say 2 of them or
> less is to leave it on but if I know I will be gone for longer than 30
> minutes I tend to shut the entire box down. Unless I am doing something.
>
>
>
>
> On 3/04/2018 9:23 a.m., marcio via Groups.Io wrote:
>> Hi guys,
>> My NVDA is having a strange and very annoying problem.
>> It happens that when I stay too much time far from my computer, when I
>> come back my screen is totally frozen and there's nothing I can do about.
>> Mouse and keyboard aparently don't receive my commands, my computer just
>> stays there, out of any action.
>> The only thing I can do, obviously, is to manually restart it and then
>> all seems to back to normality.
>> How I can resolve this problem? I'll really appreciate if there's a
>> solution for my cyber nightmare haha
>>
>> Cheers
>> Marcio
>>
>>
>> .
>>
>
>
>
>




Re: A weird problem with NVDA and Windows 10

Ervin, Glenn
 

But if no settings had been changed, how could it start doing that?
I considered that Marcio would know if a setting had been changed.
Glenn

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2018 6:04 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] A weird problem with NVDA and Windows 10

Sounds to me like its going into standby or something after a time and because its not working properly on the log in screen it seems to be stuck.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "marcio via Groups.Io" <marcinhorj21=yahoo.com.br@groups.io>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, April 02, 2018 10:23 PM
Subject: [nvda] A weird problem with NVDA and Windows 10


Hi guys,
My NVDA is having a strange and very annoying problem.
It happens that when I stay too much time far from my computer, when I
come back my screen is totally frozen and there's nothing I can do about.
Mouse and keyboard aparently don't receive my commands, my computer just
stays there, out of any action.
The only thing I can do, obviously, is to manually restart it and then all
seems to back to normality.
How I can resolve this problem? I'll really appreciate if there's a
solution for my cyber nightmare haha

Cheers
Marcio



Re: A weird problem with NVDA and Windows 10

Ervin, Glenn
 

Gene,

A corrupt part of the disk can cause problems with a particular file that can be causing a problem like this.

Perhaps the swap file is writing to a bad sector.

Glenn

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, April 02, 2018 11:09 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] A weird problem with NVDA and Windows 10

 

I see that not using NVDA causes the problem not to happen so that part is solved.  I don't see how this is a disk problem.  I think the relevant part of the NVDA log needs to be sent to the list so people who know enough technically can see what might be happening.  Others on the list can tell you how to submit the log. 

 

What is NVDA doing or what isn't working properly after a time of not being used?  Of course, I may be wrong but I am more than skeptical that a hard drive problem has anything to do with the problem. 

 

I still think the power settings should be checked.  I don't know how likely this is, but it still could be that something, the hard drive, the monitor, something, is turning off and can't turn on properly if NVDA is running.  It may be that the computer is going into something like sleep or standbye and isn't turning on properly when NVDA is running.  Or perhaps keyboard input isn't being properly received when this happens when NVDA is running.  I think the hard drive is the least of the possibilities.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Monday, April 02, 2018 4:57 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] A weird problem with NVDA and Windows 10

 

Yes, I tried it without NVDA and that's ok. No problem using my computer.

About CHKDSK, how I can proceed to use it?

Em 02/04/2018 18:50, Ervin, Glenn escreveu:

Have you tried it without NVDA running?
It sounds more like an operating system problem, and not NVDA.
I would recommend unloading NVDA and load Narrator and see if it still happens.
If it only happens with NVDA, you could reinstall it.
If it does not happen with Narrator, I would try a chkdsk in tools of the drive properties.
HTH.
Glenn
 
-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of marcio via Groups.Io
Sent: Monday, April 02, 2018 4:24 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] A weird problem with NVDA and Windows 10
 
Hi guys,
My NVDA is having a strange and very annoying problem.
It happens that when I stay too much time far from my computer, when I come back my screen is totally frozen and there's nothing I can do about. Mouse and keyboard aparently don't receive my commands, my computer just stays there, out of any action.
The only thing I can do, obviously, is to manually restart it and then all seems to back to normality.
How I can resolve this problem? I'll really appreciate if there's a solution for my cyber nightmare haha
 
Cheers
Marcio
 
 
 
 
 
 

 


Re: A weird problem with NVDA and Windows 10

Ervin, Glenn
 

Gene,

I too thought it sounded like a power setting, however, if nothing had been changed, it would not likely be the issue.

I suppose the PS could be starting to go, and not charging the battery well.

Glenn

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, April 02, 2018 11:00 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] A weird problem with NVDA and Windows 10

 

I don't see how this has anything to do with a disk problem.  Something happens if the computer is not used for a certain period of time.  Check the power settings in the computer.  Is it set to always on?  Is anything specified to happen after a certain period of time such as that the hard drive will stop or something else will stop or that the computer will go into stand by or sleep?  Dis problems cause data to not be properly written to disk and to be lost or corrupted or cause data not to be properly read from the disk and to be corrupted or lost in that way.  This sounds like a power management problem.  Make sure the always on setting is being used.  If it is being used now, the problem needs more investigation.  If it isn't being used now, use it and see what happens.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Ervin, Glenn

Sent: Monday, April 02, 2018 4:50 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] A weird problem with NVDA and Windows 10

 

Have you tried it without NVDA running?
It sounds more like an operating system problem, and not NVDA.
I would recommend unloading NVDA and load Narrator and see if it still happens.
If it only happens with NVDA, you could reinstall it.
If it does not happen with Narrator, I would try a chkdsk in tools of the drive properties.
HTH.
Glenn

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of marcio via Groups.Io
Sent: Monday, April 02, 2018 4:24 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] A weird problem with NVDA and Windows 10

Hi guys,
My NVDA is having a strange and very annoying problem.
It happens that when I stay too much time far from my computer, when I come back my screen is totally frozen and there's nothing I can do about. Mouse and keyboard aparently don't receive my commands, my computer just stays there, out of any action.
The only thing I can do, obviously, is to manually restart it and then all seems to back to normality.
How I can resolve this problem? I'll really appreciate if there's a solution for my cyber nightmare haha

Cheers
Marcio






Re: Voice Dream Reader equivalent on PC?

Cristóbal
 

For the record, QRead also handles MOBI formatted eBooks.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of David Griffith
Sent: Tuesday, April 3, 2018 6:02 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Voice Dream Reader equivalent on PC?

 

I agree that QRead  is a very useful program and I purchased it myself.

However in terms of emulating Voicedream on a PC i would have thought something like balabolka would have been nearer the mark. Especially with its ability to create TTS mp3 versions in different voices of eBooks, including support not just for ePub but also Mobi books.

I have not used it enough to comment on things like chapter navigation though I understand it supports Header navigation..

It is of course also free so is easy to try out and see if it suits the bill.

David Griffith

 

 

My Blind Access and Guide dog Blog
http://dgriffithblog.wordpress.com/
My Blind hammer Blog
https://www.westhamtillidie.com/authors/blind-hammer/posts

 

From: Quentin Christensen
Sent: 02 April 2018 02:54
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Voice Dream Reader equivalent on PC?

 

Hi everyone,

 

I had an inquiry from someone who is familiar with Voice Dream Reader on iOS, and wondered whether there was a similar, accessible program on the PC?  Particularly of interest are features like being able to open it and quickly pick up where a particular title was previously left.

 

Kind regards

 

Quentin.

 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 

 


Re: Blindspot may need to close because of Spotify's changing API.

Gerardo Corripio
 

Remember too that here in Mexico, and othe other less-developped countries, an unlimited internet plan is very expensive! thus most of us only have from 1GB monthkly, to about 6 or 8. For this reason, being able to download music via Spotify, or others to have available online, is important.
El 03/04/2018 a las 08:08 a.m., Robert Kingett escribió:

Hey guys! and gals. I will check out some suggestions in the thread, but I don't want to download music just so I can play it. I use the radio function on Spotify to write to artists similar to say, Owl City, for example. I guess I can just continue to use Hope. Accessible pandora application. I will see if Google Music has a radio like option and look at all of the other suggestions, but I am not interested in downloading music or storing it somewhere to be played. I guess it's a generational thing, I guess. I like the, pay once, get access to seemingly unlimited albums without downloading anything. Still, great suggestions! Eager to check them out! Yeah, I love blindspot too and use it daily. It's a shame. while the windows version is usable, it's half assed accessible. For instance, the options dialog does not read unless moving the review cursor around. It seems like they just want to appease us. Hey, I absolutely hated Flash to begin with, even when I could see. I always removed it straight away when I imaged a new laptop. Off to try the other services! Toodles!


-- 
Gera
Enviado desde Thunderbird


Re: Wells Fargo contact information.

Antony Stone
 

Ah.

Since your posting wasn't a reply to an existing thread, I didn't realise it
was in response to a question asked in that thread, so it looked to me like
some person from Wells Fargo simply wanted to discuss things about NVDA with
us.

Thanks for the clarification.

Antony.

On Tuesday 03 April 2018 at 16:03:16, Cohn, Jonathan wrote:

Sorry,

I forgot to switch from reply to group to reply to sender before sending
this one out. There was a complaint yesterday about being unable to click
buttons using Chrome with the Wells Fargo web site. Judith is fairly
active with some general accessibility web sites and I expect does not
have time to spend directly on a NVDA mailing list.

Take care,

Jonathan Cohn

On 4/3/18, 9:45 AM, Antony Stone wrote:

She's welcome to join the list and ask any questions she has -
alternatively contact details for NV Access Limited are available on the
website at https://www.nvaccess.org/contact/


Regards,


Antony.
--
"I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting. But it does
mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously."

- Douglas Adams

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.


Re: Wells Fargo contact information.

Jonathan COHN
 

Sorry,

I forgot to switch from reply to group to reply to sender before sending this one out. There was a complaint yesterday about being unable to click buttons using Chrome with the Wells Fargo web site. Judith is fairly active with some general accessibility web sites and I expect does not have time to spend directly on a NVDA mailing list.

Take care,

Jonathan Cohn

On 4/3/18, 9:45 AM, "nvda@nvda.groups.io on behalf of Antony Stone" <nvda@nvda.groups.io on behalf of antony.stone@nvda.open.source.it> wrote:

She's welcome to join the list and ask any questions she has - alternatively
contact details for NV Access Limited are available on the website at
https://www.nvaccess.org/contact/


Regards,


Antony.

On Tuesday 03 April 2018 at 15:38:43, Cohn, Jonathan wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I believe the below person would be interested in talking with you.
>
> Judith Blankman
> Accessibility Strategist, Vice President
>
> WFVC Digital Customer Experience
> 550 California Street, 2nd Floor
> San Francisco, CA 94104
> 415-947-6583 | Cell: 415-601-1114
>
> judith.a.blankman@wellsfargo.com

--
This email was created using 100% recycled electrons.

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.


Re: Require help with NVDA

Ron Canazzi
 

OK, here you go.


Keep in mind that the reference to NVDA is the NVDA modifier key.  On desktops  bby default it is the insert key.  On laptops it is the caps lock key.


left mouse click NVDA + [ Press twice quickly for a double left click.

left mouse button lock NVDA + control + [ to unlock press again.

right mouse button click NVDA + ]

right mouse button lock NVDA + control+ ] press again to unlock.

Move mouse to current navigater object NVDA + shift + M

Navigate to the object under the mouse NVDA + Shift +N

On 4/3/2018 2:57 AM, ss sarfudeen wrote:
Hi Ron,

Thanks for the steps you have provided. As I am using a laptop and not
a desktop computer, could you please give me the NVDA keystrokes for
the laptop layout for changing the review mode to the object mode and
also for routing the mouse to the item? I have tried the other two
methods but did not find them working.

Regards,

Sultana



On 4/3/18, Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@roadrunner.com> wrote:
Hi Sultana,


This clickable issue is a bit complex. If pressing enter on a clickable
item does not activate a new menu, or change the displayed material such
that the use of up or down arrow keys gives you new information, there
are several things you can try. This issue is complex because the
underlying code that results in NVDA reporting the item as clickable can
vary enough so that there is no one answer.


The first thing I try is to highlight the item rendered as clickable and
press the space bar. Check to see if this action renders any new
information. If that does not work, use your numpad and the insert key
(desktop system) to change the review mode to object mode (insert +
numpad 7) and then highlight the item and then route the mouse cursor to
the item with insert + numpad divide and then press the numpad divide
key again to affect a left mouse click. Check to see if this has
rendered any new information by using up/down arrow keys to check the
screen. Sometimes activating a clickable item will launch a new page and
you will know you have succeeded when this happens.


If the above methods don't work, I have found that switching to focus
mode with the keystroke insert + space bar and then using the tab key to
move around between items and then pressing enter on the item voiced as
clickable will activate the clickable item.


Those are methods that can work depending upon the underlying code to
activate the clickable items. And also be advised, that some pages are
coded so poorly that an item that is voiced as clickable is not
activated by any of the above methods. If this happens, that's the time
to e-mail the web master and inform them that their site is not screen
reader friendly.


HTH.



On 4/3/2018 12:52 AM, ss sarfudeen wrote:
Hello list members,

I am Sultana and this is my first post to the list. I have installed
the latest version of NVDA on my computer and I have been using it as
my primary screen reader for quite sometime now. I am seeking your
help to perform some tasks using NVDA. I would like to be
able to work with buttons on a web page or a form that read as
"Clickable". When I hit Enter on a clickable button, it does not get
activated. Please let me know as to how to activate it and also make
sure that the button is activated.

Besides, I would also like to know the keyboard shortcuts or an add-on
if any, for closing
pop up windows when I log-on to a website.
Kindly advise.
Your help is highly appreciated.

Regards,

Sultana



--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"




--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


Re: Blindspot may need to close because of Spotify's changing API.

Gerardo Corripio
 

Also I think i heard somewhere that Google Play music, has a Windows program that allows you to listen online, and/or download your music onto the computer, especially good for folks like my Dad because of generational things, he wants for music to be available on his mP3 Sansa player, USB and other media he can listen to wihtout depending of an app and a SmartPHone.

El 02/04/2018 a las 11:43 a.m., Perry Simm via Groups.Io escribió:
Hello,
as far as an accessible web interface is concerned, I can recommend Google Play Music. It uses headings, has keyboard shortcuts, all buttons have reasonable descriptions, and if used with Chrome it doesn't even require the security risk called Flash. It's an accessibility success story too few people know about, in sharp contrast to Spotify which, in my opinion, never really cared.
Cheers Perry


​Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.​

‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐

On April 2, 2018 3:28 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:

No connection whatsoever with this, but in this age of inclusively, should

not a company now about to or is listed not be actually trying to increase

their electronic footfall, rather than chucking people off who are blind.

its probably against the law in many countries, but as we often see, if you

are a powerful entity, you can do what you like. Some companies consider

social responsibility to be cheap to comply with and gives them brownie

points, while others carry on as if they were in a time 40 years ago.

I'll say no more but I had thought with flash being discontinued the age

of inaccessible web content was over.

Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk

Sent via blueyonder.

Please address personal E-mail to:-

briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'

in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----

From: "Robert Kingett" kingettr@gmail.com

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Sent: Monday, April 02, 2018 2:46 PM

Subject: [nvda] Blindspot may need to close because of Spotify's changing

API.

Per Spotify's new API requirements,

meaning, they are killing off one in favor of the other, in this case,

web... means that accessible apps like BlindSpot may not work anymore. It

is a huge shame, but not at all shocking. The Git link is below to the

thread.

Before anybody asks, because I know many will, and not bother looking it

up, blindspot is an accessible, windowless, alternative application to

Spotify that works using the keyboard only, and is only on Windows. The

issue thread is below.

https://github.com/craigbrett17/blindspot/issues/38

--
Gera
Enviado desde Thunderbird


Re: Wells Fargo contact information.

Antony Stone
 

She's welcome to join the list and ask any questions she has - alternatively
contact details for NV Access Limited are available on the website at
https://www.nvaccess.org/contact/


Regards,


Antony.

On Tuesday 03 April 2018 at 15:38:43, Cohn, Jonathan wrote:

Hello,

I believe the below person would be interested in talking with you.

Judith Blankman
Accessibility Strategist, Vice President

WFVC Digital Customer Experience
550 California Street, 2nd Floor
San Francisco, CA 94104
415-947-6583 | Cell: 415-601-1114

judith.a.blankman@wellsfargo.com
--
This email was created using 100% recycled electrons.

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.


Re: Blindspot may need to close because of Spotify's changing API.

 

Hey guys! and gals. I will check out some suggestions in the thread, but I don't want to download music just so I can play it. I use the radio function on Spotify to write to artists similar to say, Owl City, for example. I guess I can just continue to use Hope. Accessible pandora application. I will see if Google Music has a radio like option and look at all of the other suggestions, but I am not interested in downloading music or storing it somewhere to be played. I guess it's a generational thing, I guess. I like the, pay once, get access to seemingly unlimited albums without downloading anything. Still, great suggestions! Eager to check them out! Yeah, I love blindspot too and use it daily. It's a shame. while the windows version is usable, it's half assed accessible. For instance, the options dialog does not read unless moving the review cursor around. It seems like they just want to appease us. Hey, I absolutely hated Flash to begin with, even when I could see. I always removed it straight away when I imaged a new laptop. Off to try the other services! Toodles!


Re: Voice Dream Reader equivalent on PC?

David Griffith
 

I agree that QRead  is a very useful program and I purchased it myself.

However in terms of emulating Voicedream on a PC i would have thought something like balabolka would have been nearer the mark. Especially with its ability to create TTS mp3 versions in different voices of eBooks, including support not just for ePub but also Mobi books.

I have not used it enough to comment on things like chapter navigation though I understand it supports Header navigation..

It is of course also free so is easy to try out and see if it suits the bill.

David Griffith

 

 

My Blind Access and Guide dog Blog
http://dgriffithblog.wordpress.com/
My Blind hammer Blog
https://www.westhamtillidie.com/authors/blind-hammer/posts

 

From: Quentin Christensen
Sent: 02 April 2018 02:54
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Voice Dream Reader equivalent on PC?

 

Hi everyone,

 

I had an inquiry from someone who is familiar with Voice Dream Reader on iOS, and wondered whether there was a similar, accessible program on the PC?  Particularly of interest are features like being able to open it and quickly pick up where a particular title was previously left.

 

Kind regards

 

Quentin.

 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

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