Date   

Re: Email clients

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Well I an no doubt
you keep getting called dinosaurs, for not using email on a smart phone, everyone does this now they all say to me, nobody uses email on a computer any more!
To this I say bah humbug, and have been using Outlook Express tweaked version for some years in Windows 7 wi5th no problems. it also gives me access to newsgroups, which surprisingly are still alive out there, and has easy to configure message rules so I can have multiple email lists coming in, each sorted via pop3 to a different folder with no user input plus of course I can have both Imap and pop3 of the same account which lets me see spam folders in some isps emails.
I did try the providers web interfaces and while these can work well, you are at the mercy of web designers who are sadists. By that I mean that you tumble out of bed one day and find the whole user interface has been 'improved' to such an extent you have no idea what to do with it.
I'm just glad that OE is still supported by nvda and works well.
I did not like Live mail as it kept falling over and could not support identities which allows me to effectively keep different parts of my online life apart and not see them till I decide to see that part.

Unfortunately, although the patch works on windows 10, whenever windows does a complete update, it trashes things it does not like including oe, and one has to restore it again, taking up valuable time.
In your issues with Dropbox, I have to say I've had no issues with the latest systems indeed on windows 7, it seems to be faster generally. I do not use it on line only offline though, as if I wanted an on line storage system I'd not be using dropbox as its far too snazzy.


Pandering to the sighted again.

So unfortunately since you now have wlm, you are a bit stuffed as I do not think you can back convert to OE format. What you can do though is find a copy of the stand alone installer and not the stub as they put out latterly.

It was a shame that internet mail and news in 7 was not made accessible as it would have been nice. There is of course Outlook itself, but once again its like buying a combine harvester just cos you want a tractor.

Besides If I had ten pounds for everyone who has had aggro with the 2016 incarnation, I'd be living in style with servants by now.



So rant over, but I basically agree, where are the very easy to use, non html based simple reliable email and news clients that blind people can use. Maybe somebody needs to write one.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Damien Garwood" <damien@dcpendleton.plus.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2018 3:12 PM
Subject: [nvda] Email clients


Hi there,

Ten minutes in the life of seemingly old fashioned Damien, using Windows 7 and Windows Live Mail:
* Check emails.
* Install Dropbox.
* Realise that it’s turned into a pile of sludgy sluggish inaccessible mess.
* Uninstall Dropbox.
* Attempt to check emails.
* Receive a message that WLDCore.dll is missing.
So in that ten minutes, the only significant thing was to install and uninstall Dropbox, leading me to think that Dropbox somehow corrupted it. I'll save that rant for my rants folder.
I then nonchalantly uninstall, and launch the Windows Live Essentials installer expecting to be able to repair it. Of course, it doesn’t budge. Only then, do I find out that WLM has been discontinued, seemingly with nothing to replace it for Windows 7 users. Another rant for my rants folder.

I wouldn’t be particularly bothered. I wouldn't say that WLM is the best client I've ever used. In fact, every client I've used up to now could do with some accessibility tips. Even so, despite its shortcomings, WLM was the next best thing to OE and so I’ve been using that for the past four or five years.
This puts me in a real dilemma. I’m only able to write this email now, thanks to System Restore (A feature I swore I would never use thanks to its abilities to mess things up). As a result, I highly feel that I need to get a replacement client, hopefully something a little less sporadic in its development and life/support cycles. However, I can’t find a basic, accessible client that:
1. Is free of unnecessary outright bloated clutter,
2. Is fully accessible, responsive and comprehensible, and
3. Is able to import WLM folders and messages.

Here are the three that I have heard apparently work well, and my experiences:

1. OEClassic
Since I liked Outlook Express, and since I have heard a lot about OEClassic on this list, I thought it would make sense to first try that one. However I was disappointed. When tabbing through the main window, I had no idea what was what (the controls seemed to be unlabelled or labelled incorrectly), and some even said “Unknown”. And that’s even before I touched any settings.

2. Pegasus
While Pegasus was the first email client I was ever introduced to, that was nearly 20 years ago, and using a different screen reader. Similar to OEClassic, I found several “Unknown” controls, not to mention the old rich-text-based help system used in the Windows 98 days.

3. Thunderbird
Thunderbird was the only option of the three to allow me to set up a mailbox before use, and even that was a nightmare, simply because it was determined to persuade me to use encrypted channels. Also, while it does seem to be the most accessible of the three in terms of navigation, it also seems full of unnecessary clutter (different tabs, toolbars, calendars and news feeds, half of which I’ll never use). Also can’t get my head around the fact that its window makes heavy use of HTML – I’m used to seeing a good old listbox, pressing enter on a message, and reading it.

Finally, WLM seems to be absent from import options of all three. I see frequent mention of Outlook Express, Outlook, Windows Mail, Thunderbird...But not Windows Live.
At this point, I've no idea what my next step is.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers.
Damien.


Re: help, can't get balloon about Win 10 back!

 

hi.
is there a method to desable automatic update to windows ten for
windows 7 users?
i have many friends who use windows seven.
how about windows vista?
is disabling automatic update also removes updating to windows ten?

On 4/16/18, Gene New Zealand <hurrikennyandopo@outlook.co.nz> wrote:
Hi


is it asking for a product key and giveing you a 30 day count down?


I think i have a machine here which has windows 10 which is unregisted from
scratch as it did not get the free upgrade because it had vista on it and it
is still going.


I also had a friend who upgraded not all that long ago from windows 7 using
assistive tec and no registration or payment required no water marks etc as
well.



Gene nz


On 4/16/2018 10:25 AM, Jessica D wrote:
Hi,
I'm proud to say, that as of this afternoon, I updated to Windows 10,
without speech, using "seeing AI" on my iphone.
All I need now, is a product key.
My computer is very fast now.



Thanks,
Jessica


On Apr 15, 2018, at 6:13 PM, Brian Vogel
<britechguy@gmail.com<mailto:britechguy@gmail.com>> wrote:

Several observations:


1. If you have Windows 7 (any edition) and are still getting any sort of
"Upgrade to Windows 10" messages the only reason would be that your Windows
Update process is broken, since GWX [Get Windows X - Ten] was removed by
Windows Update on Windows 7 systems within a few weeks of the end of July
2016. That, or you or someone else set up something to intentionally block
Windows Updates (and many people did for GWX) that blocked the removal patch
from downloading and installing.
2. Even though the free update period is over officially, updates to
Windows 10 on Windows 7 and Windows 8/8.1 systems continues to work, at
least as of last week. You can use the method documented in: Updating
Windows 10 using the Windows 10 ISO
file<https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/wiki/windows_10-windows_install/how-to-upgrade-to-windows-10-creators-update/617a37da-8fc0-4f33-a3eb-59fe9082f925>
3. The free Upgrade to Windows 10 for Users of Assistive
Technologies<https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/accessibility/windows10upgrade>
ended as of 12/31/2017, as you'll see if you check out the webpage. You can
no longer download the Windows 10 ISO or use the Update Assistant from that
page.

--
Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1709, Build 16299 (dot level on
request - it changes too often to keep in signature)

The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the
opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.

~ Niels Bohr







--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali


Re: Instructions for Attachments in GMail?

 

hi.
i use nvda version 2016 too!
just find the link which says download or scan and download and save
your file in your computer.

On 4/16/18, David Russell <david.sonofhashem@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello NVDA Users,

In 2013 or '14, Google made a major change in the way attachments are
viewed in GMail. Or, such is the case on my computer using Windows
Seven and now, a version of FireFox that doesn't take the latest data
fixes that come down the pipe.
Will NVDA Central, or whatever the site is called, offer one tutorials
on how to open attachments in GMail with hot key commands, or can
someone recommend another comparable site to get step-by-step
commands?
I am not a mouse user. I am using the 2016 version of NVDA and happy with
it!
I can View as HTML, but would like to view the actual attached RTF
document as this is an edited manuscript for a book.
Thanks in advance.

--
David Russell
david.sonofhashem@gmail.com



--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali


Instructions for Attachments in GMail?

David Russell
 

Hello NVDA Users,

In 2013 or '14, Google made a major change in the way attachments are
viewed in GMail. Or, such is the case on my computer using Windows
Seven and now, a version of FireFox that doesn't take the latest data
fixes that come down the pipe.
Will NVDA Central, or whatever the site is called, offer one tutorials
on how to open attachments in GMail with hot key commands, or can
someone recommend another comparable site to get step-by-step
commands?
I am not a mouse user. I am using the 2016 version of NVDA and happy with it!
I can View as HTML, but would like to view the actual attached RTF
document as this is an edited manuscript for a book.
Thanks in advance.

--
David Russell
david.sonofhashem@gmail.com


Re: Email clients

Ron Canazzi
 

Hi Group,


.EML is also the default save as format for Thunderbird.  If you save an open Thunderbird message as follows:

1. Open message

2. Press control + S

3.  tab to the file types box

4.  you will see that the default file extension is all files *.*

5.  without changing anything, tab to the save button and press space bar.


When you check the folder for your default save message, you will see the file extension is .EML.

On 4/15/2018 11:21 AM, Rui Fontes wrote:
Yes, *.EML is the message format of Outlook Express and WLM...

Rui


Às 16:13 de 15/04/2018, Damien Garwood escreveu:
Hi Rui,
I'm guessing *.eml is the WLM format? Never heard of that extension before.
Cheers.
Damien.
-----Original Message----- From: Rui Fontes
Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2018 4:10 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Email clients

You have a Thunderbird addon to handle *.EML messages...

Rui

Às 15:12 de 15/04/2018, Damien Garwood escreveu:
Hi there,
Ten minutes in the life of seemingly old fashioned Damien, using Windows 7 and Windows Live Mail:
* Check emails.
* Install Dropbox.
* Realise that it’s turned into a pile of sludgy sluggish inaccessible mess.
* Uninstall Dropbox.
* Attempt to check emails.
* Receive a message that WLDCore.dll is missing.
So in that ten minutes, the only significant thing was to install and uninstall Dropbox, leading me to think that Dropbox somehow corrupted it. I'll save that rant for my rants folder.
I then nonchalantly uninstall, and launch the Windows Live Essentials installer expecting to be able to repair it. Of course, it doesn’t budge. Only then, do I find out that WLM has been discontinued, seemingly with nothing to replace it for Windows 7 users. Another rant for my rants folder.
I wouldn’t be particularly bothered. I wouldn't say that WLM is the best client I've ever used. In fact, every client I've used up to now could do with some accessibility tips. Even so, despite its shortcomings, WLM was the next best thing to OE and so I’ve been using that for the past four or five years.
This puts me in a real dilemma. I’m only able to write this email now, thanks to System Restore (A feature I swore I would never use thanks to its abilities to mess things up). As a result, I highly feel that I need to get a replacement client, hopefully something a little less sporadic in its development and life/support cycles. However, I can’t find a basic, accessible client that:
1. Is free of unnecessary outright bloated clutter,
2. Is fully accessible, responsive and comprehensible, and
3. Is able to import WLM folders and messages.
Here are the three that I have heard apparently work well, and my experiences:
1. OEClassic
Since I liked Outlook Express, and since I have heard a lot about OEClassic on this list, I thought it would make sense to first try that one. However I was disappointed. When tabbing through the main window, I had no idea what was what (the controls seemed to be unlabelled or labelled incorrectly), and some even said “Unknown”. And that’s even before I touched any settings.
2. Pegasus
While Pegasus was the first email client I was ever introduced to, that was nearly 20 years ago, and using a different screen reader. Similar to OEClassic, I found several “Unknown” controls, not to mention the old rich-text-based help system used in the Windows 98 days.
3. Thunderbird
Thunderbird was the only option of the three to allow me to set up a mailbox before use, and even that was a nightmare, simply because it was determined to persuade me to use encrypted channels. Also, while it does seem to be the most accessible of the three in terms of navigation, it also seems full of unnecessary clutter (different tabs, toolbars, calendars and news feeds, half of which I’ll never use). Also can’t get my head around the fact that its window makes heavy use of HTML – I’m used to seeing a good old listbox, pressing enter on a message, and reading it.
Finally, WLM seems to be absent from import options of all three. I see frequent mention of Outlook Express, Outlook, Windows Mail, Thunderbird...But not Windows Live.
At this point, I've no idea what my next step is.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers.
Damien.





.

--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


Re: NVDA and Windows Audio Service (audiodg.exe)

enes sarıbaş
 

hi,
Sounds like blind people aren't the only one with the problem with wave max.
https://www.dell.com/community/Windows-10/MaxxAudioPro-high-CPU-usage-with-and-without-audio-playing-due/td-p/5071372

On 4/16/2018 3:09 AM, valiant8086 wrote:
Hi.


If you have Wave max, it should be available in the system tray. If it asks you what you just plugged in when you connect a wired audio device like headphones, you may have wave max.


It's integrated  into the realtek audio driver. If you do uninstall it and get the generic driver, and that works ok for you, it'll eventually update the driver again by itself without your permission, so you'd need to block it using one of the methods I mentioned earlier.


I also forgot to point out that even with the high processor usage of audiodg.exe that the rest of us are talking about, high ram usage shouldn't be happening, that's not consistent with the norm.Dumping wave max and going for generic drivers as I discussed was for purposes of freeing up cpu time for things more important. Doing this improves computer performance to some degree, especially on low end models like the inspiron 11 systems, and it reduces running temps and increases battery life noticeably.


Someone suggested just disabling it. Yes, you can do this, but on some systems, at least the inspiron11 I had for a few days, that causes the headphones to sound really tinny and make you feel like you're listening to the sound through aluminum pipes speaking tube over a fare distance, and it didn't revert the cpu usage of audiodg.exe to the expected low that occurs on normal systems. With the enhancements enabled, on that inspiron 11 with the admittedly lousy intel celleron n3050 cpu, it used around 15 percent with wave max fully enabled, 7 percent with it disabled, and 1 percent to 0 percent with the generic driver. With a dual core cpu, you can multiply all of those percentages by 2 to get the rough estimate of how much of a single cpu core that was using  and thus how much extra cpu cycles were being wasted for something totally unnecessary.


If you folks know how to complain to dell and Microsoft to get this issue fixed, I'd be very appreciative. Wave max does have its benefits, but the benefits don't outweigh the drawbacks, and not being able to disable it fully without being an absolute computer wiz with incredible patience for researching how to do obscure things is a real shame. As someone else said, it is enough to make having a dell not a viable option except in the most extreme cases. Most folks don't realize what's happening. Their dell just runs a little warm, it's a little more sluggish perhaps. They have no idea there's untapped battery, performance and thermal potential just being wasted on that nifty sound card.







Cheers:
Aaron Spears, A.K.A. valiant8086. General Partner - Valiant Galaxy Associates "We make Very Good Audiogames for the blind community - http://valiantGalaxy.com"

<Sent with Thunderbird 52.1.0 portable>

On 4/13/2018 6:17 PM, Luke Scholey wrote:
Hi Tyler
How do you access the Dell audio Control Panel? I know through all my searching I haven’t found a way of disabling enhancements because I don’t think my laptop has any.
Thanks
Luke

On 13 Apr 2018, at 22:34, Brian Moore <bmoore@screenreview.org> wrote:

when I used it, was exactly the same with Jaws.  I never had the ram issues but could never get the audio working correctly.


On 13/04/2018 5:33 PM, Tyler Wood wrote:
Hi,

GOing to the dell audio control panel on my dell and disabling the enhancements fixed my audio service from taking up unneeded processor though it never did use more ram.

It also fixed the over driving of speech, but I also did not have wave max audio.


Though, I don't think dell is the only one doing this these days.



On 13-Apr-2018 4:23 PM, Luke Scholey wrote:
no, Jaws works fine.
In my opinion, it’s either NVDA or an obscure Dell problem that I haven’t figured out yet.
Thanks
Luke

On 13 Apr 2018, at 21:53, Ervin, Glenn <glenn.ervin@nebraska.gov> wrote:

Does it happen with Jaws?
A Jaws demo would allow you to test.
This knowledge might help make NVDA more robust.
Glenn

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Luke Scholey
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2018 3:45 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and Windows Audio Service (audiodg.exe)

Agree with all the points raised here, unfortunately it is a Dell and there is no way of accessing any other audio Control Panel.
A USB headset or Bluetooth headset has the same problem unfortunately.
The thing I don’t understand is, why do enhancements matter to NVDA? Why not the same issue with narrator?
Audiodg.exe currently at 2.3 GB ram at the moment haha I’m beginning to loose my mind.
Thanks
Luke

On 13 Apr 2018, at 21:08, enes sarıbaş <enes.saribas@gmail.com> wrote:

but the app should have an option to turn off the enhancements. They can't force those. There should be a hidden registry setting or group policy. Sounds like a talk with dell or microsoft is in order. Someone should contact dell, and explain that the enhancements are problamatic with screen reader users, and an option is required to disable them for blind users. Also, if microsoft wanted, it could add an option to disable audio enhancements from the ease of access center.


On 4/13/2018 11:01 PM, Brian Moore wrote:
Hi. I have seen this on a  few newer laptops where there was actually no option in the control panel for realtek or anywhere else to disable the enhancements.  It was a serious problem as with speech, it was over driving the audio and there was lots of distortion.  there didn't seem to be a way that any of us could find to disable it.


the "dell audio" app seems to be integrated with the realtek stuff with no separate entry for removing it.  You can uninstall the driver and get a standard realtek driver but you do loose combo jacks etc when you do that.


I was only using this laptop for a short term contract so lived with it for 5 weeks but this would have been grounds to return one if it were one I owned.




On 04/13/2018 3:50 PM, enes sarıbaş wrote:
it isn't specific to Dell. Try enabling DTS and IDT sound effects for toshiba satallite l50 series laptops. Thank god there is a disable enhancements checkbox for sound effects, and a disable option in the system tray icon of DTS.

Wait what, dell doesn't allow you to disable enhancements in the sound settings? That is retarded seriously. There should be a check box in the actual realtech control panel, which you will likely need sighted help to access.


On 4/13/2018 4:42 PM, Luke Scholey wrote:
It is a Dell yes.
Interesting suggestion there, I’ll give it a go. How do I delete the driver? And also, why do you think this issue specific to NVDA?
I’m not that confident with Dell laptops at the moment, but they seem to be popping up in my life a lot more often.
Thanks
Luke

On 13 Apr 2018, at 13:43, valiant8086 <valiant8086@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi.


Is this a dell? If so, I'll need to gloat for a bit. I have a serious hate on for the wave max audio stuff.  If it is, a possible fix is to delete the audio driver and reboot. For a short while after you reboot, you'll have a stock windows driver that works fine with the only exception being that it doesn't support headsets with the microphone on the same 8th inch plug in a combo jack, it still records from internal even if you use a headset with a microphone on it. Note though  a couple of things, if you end up with no sound, you need a way to recover. I suggest making sure NVDA remote is set to auto start and auto connect in the allow another pc to control this one mode, and if you have another computer handy, restart without doing anything else to ensure you're able to get in from the other computer. Alternatively if you have a USB sound device you could plug in, that'll work.


If this solution works, until the driver updates itself again, you can use the WinaeroTweaker application (free download) to block all driver updates. Dell is really good about  making sure your drivers stay up to date so drastic measures are needed to stop it. I don't even know if this will work, when I had a dell for a few days I didn't know about this, so I tried another alternative that worked, denying system write privilages to the realtek folder in program files (and program files (x86) both, but for the system account only If you do it that way, be darn sure you don't accidentally do it to your own account or I won't be able to figure out how to get you to be able to see the folder again to fix it. Deny write and modify to it, for the system account and only that.


Alternatively, if this is recent, let's blame NVDA? Lol



Cheers:
Aaron Spears, A.K.A. valiant8086. General Partner - Valiant Galaxy Associates "We make Very Good Audiogames for the blind community - http://valiantGalaxy.com"

<Sent with Thunderbird 52.1.0 portable>

On 4/12/2018 1:03 PM, Luke Scholey wrote:
Correct, my device doesn’t have this so unfortunately doesn’t apply.
Thanks though
Luke

On 12 Apr 2018, at 17:55, Rob Hudson <rob_hudson_3182@gmx.com> wrote:

Ralf Kefferpuetz <ralf.kefferpuetz@elra-consulting.de> wrote:
Have you tried to disable the audio enhancements, please read below.
Not every audio device has audio enhancements. So this isn't a surefire fix.


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Notice:
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Email: l.scholey@lukescholey.co.uk

WWW.LUKESCHOLEY.CO.UK
All feedback and questions welcome. The site admin can be contacted at:
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All content copyright © 2012-2018 LukeScholey.co.uk
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Re: NVDA and Windows Audio Service (audiodg.exe)

enes sarıbaş
 

hi,
Actually, the sound cards of laptops are really crappy most of the time. That is why they use enhancements, to deceive people into believeing that the laptop sounds better than it really is. Are you sure that the tinny sound isn't the normal sound? Can you completely and totally disable wave max sound card modifications?

On 4/16/2018 3:09 AM, valiant8086 wrote:
Hi.


If you have Wave max, it should be available in the system tray. If it asks you what you just plugged in when you connect a wired audio device like headphones, you may have wave max.


It's integrated  into the realtek audio driver. If you do uninstall it and get the generic driver, and that works ok for you, it'll eventually update the driver again by itself without your permission, so you'd need to block it using one of the methods I mentioned earlier.


I also forgot to point out that even with the high processor usage of audiodg.exe that the rest of us are talking about, high ram usage shouldn't be happening, that's not consistent with the norm.Dumping wave max and going for generic drivers as I discussed was for purposes of freeing up cpu time for things more important. Doing this improves computer performance to some degree, especially on low end models like the inspiron 11 systems, and it reduces running temps and increases battery life noticeably.


Someone suggested just disabling it. Yes, you can do this, but on some systems, at least the inspiron11 I had for a few days, that causes the headphones to sound really tinny and make you feel like you're listening to the sound through aluminum pipes speaking tube over a fare distance, and it didn't revert the cpu usage of audiodg.exe to the expected low that occurs on normal systems. With the enhancements enabled, on that inspiron 11 with the admittedly lousy intel celleron n3050 cpu, it used around 15 percent with wave max fully enabled, 7 percent with it disabled, and 1 percent to 0 percent with the generic driver. With a dual core cpu, you can multiply all of those percentages by 2 to get the rough estimate of how much of a single cpu core that was using  and thus how much extra cpu cycles were being wasted for something totally unnecessary.


If you folks know how to complain to dell and Microsoft to get this issue fixed, I'd be very appreciative. Wave max does have its benefits, but the benefits don't outweigh the drawbacks, and not being able to disable it fully without being an absolute computer wiz with incredible patience for researching how to do obscure things is a real shame. As someone else said, it is enough to make having a dell not a viable option except in the most extreme cases. Most folks don't realize what's happening. Their dell just runs a little warm, it's a little more sluggish perhaps. They have no idea there's untapped battery, performance and thermal potential just being wasted on that nifty sound card.







Cheers:
Aaron Spears, A.K.A. valiant8086. General Partner - Valiant Galaxy Associates "We make Very Good Audiogames for the blind community - http://valiantGalaxy.com"

<Sent with Thunderbird 52.1.0 portable>

On 4/13/2018 6:17 PM, Luke Scholey wrote:
Hi Tyler
How do you access the Dell audio Control Panel? I know through all my searching I haven’t found a way of disabling enhancements because I don’t think my laptop has any.
Thanks
Luke

On 13 Apr 2018, at 22:34, Brian Moore <bmoore@screenreview.org> wrote:

when I used it, was exactly the same with Jaws.  I never had the ram issues but could never get the audio working correctly.


On 13/04/2018 5:33 PM, Tyler Wood wrote:
Hi,

GOing to the dell audio control panel on my dell and disabling the enhancements fixed my audio service from taking up unneeded processor though it never did use more ram.

It also fixed the over driving of speech, but I also did not have wave max audio.


Though, I don't think dell is the only one doing this these days.



On 13-Apr-2018 4:23 PM, Luke Scholey wrote:
no, Jaws works fine.
In my opinion, it’s either NVDA or an obscure Dell problem that I haven’t figured out yet.
Thanks
Luke

On 13 Apr 2018, at 21:53, Ervin, Glenn <glenn.ervin@nebraska.gov> wrote:

Does it happen with Jaws?
A Jaws demo would allow you to test.
This knowledge might help make NVDA more robust.
Glenn

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Luke Scholey
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2018 3:45 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and Windows Audio Service (audiodg.exe)

Agree with all the points raised here, unfortunately it is a Dell and there is no way of accessing any other audio Control Panel.
A USB headset or Bluetooth headset has the same problem unfortunately.
The thing I don’t understand is, why do enhancements matter to NVDA? Why not the same issue with narrator?
Audiodg.exe currently at 2.3 GB ram at the moment haha I’m beginning to loose my mind.
Thanks
Luke

On 13 Apr 2018, at 21:08, enes sarıbaş <enes.saribas@gmail.com> wrote:

but the app should have an option to turn off the enhancements. They can't force those. There should be a hidden registry setting or group policy. Sounds like a talk with dell or microsoft is in order. Someone should contact dell, and explain that the enhancements are problamatic with screen reader users, and an option is required to disable them for blind users. Also, if microsoft wanted, it could add an option to disable audio enhancements from the ease of access center.


On 4/13/2018 11:01 PM, Brian Moore wrote:
Hi. I have seen this on a  few newer laptops where there was actually no option in the control panel for realtek or anywhere else to disable the enhancements.  It was a serious problem as with speech, it was over driving the audio and there was lots of distortion.  there didn't seem to be a way that any of us could find to disable it.


the "dell audio" app seems to be integrated with the realtek stuff with no separate entry for removing it.  You can uninstall the driver and get a standard realtek driver but you do loose combo jacks etc when you do that.


I was only using this laptop for a short term contract so lived with it for 5 weeks but this would have been grounds to return one if it were one I owned.




On 04/13/2018 3:50 PM, enes sarıbaş wrote:
it isn't specific to Dell. Try enabling DTS and IDT sound effects for toshiba satallite l50 series laptops. Thank god there is a disable enhancements checkbox for sound effects, and a disable option in the system tray icon of DTS.

Wait what, dell doesn't allow you to disable enhancements in the sound settings? That is retarded seriously. There should be a check box in the actual realtech control panel, which you will likely need sighted help to access.


On 4/13/2018 4:42 PM, Luke Scholey wrote:
It is a Dell yes.
Interesting suggestion there, I’ll give it a go. How do I delete the driver? And also, why do you think this issue specific to NVDA?
I’m not that confident with Dell laptops at the moment, but they seem to be popping up in my life a lot more often.
Thanks
Luke

On 13 Apr 2018, at 13:43, valiant8086 <valiant8086@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi.


Is this a dell? If so, I'll need to gloat for a bit. I have a serious hate on for the wave max audio stuff.  If it is, a possible fix is to delete the audio driver and reboot. For a short while after you reboot, you'll have a stock windows driver that works fine with the only exception being that it doesn't support headsets with the microphone on the same 8th inch plug in a combo jack, it still records from internal even if you use a headset with a microphone on it. Note though  a couple of things, if you end up with no sound, you need a way to recover. I suggest making sure NVDA remote is set to auto start and auto connect in the allow another pc to control this one mode, and if you have another computer handy, restart without doing anything else to ensure you're able to get in from the other computer. Alternatively if you have a USB sound device you could plug in, that'll work.


If this solution works, until the driver updates itself again, you can use the WinaeroTweaker application (free download) to block all driver updates. Dell is really good about  making sure your drivers stay up to date so drastic measures are needed to stop it. I don't even know if this will work, when I had a dell for a few days I didn't know about this, so I tried another alternative that worked, denying system write privilages to the realtek folder in program files (and program files (x86) both, but for the system account only If you do it that way, be darn sure you don't accidentally do it to your own account or I won't be able to figure out how to get you to be able to see the folder again to fix it. Deny write and modify to it, for the system account and only that.


Alternatively, if this is recent, let's blame NVDA? Lol



Cheers:
Aaron Spears, A.K.A. valiant8086. General Partner - Valiant Galaxy Associates "We make Very Good Audiogames for the blind community - http://valiantGalaxy.com"

<Sent with Thunderbird 52.1.0 portable>

On 4/12/2018 1:03 PM, Luke Scholey wrote:
Correct, my device doesn’t have this so unfortunately doesn’t apply.
Thanks though
Luke

On 12 Apr 2018, at 17:55, Rob Hudson <rob_hudson_3182@gmx.com> wrote:

Ralf Kefferpuetz <ralf.kefferpuetz@elra-consulting.de> wrote:
Have you tried to disable the audio enhancements, please read below.
Not every audio device has audio enhancements. So this isn't a surefire fix.


--
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Re: Lenovo computers wunning Win10 and NVDA

valiant8086
 

Hi.


You're referring to the out of box OOB setup experience. As you said, some systems could present other prompts before OOBE appears. We don't know if Lenovo may have changed their habits recently, or specifically for the system you're looking at, not to mention we don't know just which system you're considering. That said, My Lenovo Yoga 2 pro went perfectly fine through the out of box setup experience. It's generic windows with lots of universal lenovo apps. To be fare, This came with windows 8.1, so my experience may differ. I really expect that you'll be just fine though. If not, you could use be my eyes on that iPhone to most likely get far enough along to start Narrator.


Side note. I'm a Lenovo fan. My yoga 2 pro is really nice. I have 30000 hours of runtime on it. Which exact model are you considering?



Cheers:
Aaron Spears, A.K.A. valiant8086. General Partner - Valiant Galaxy Associates "We make Very Good Audiogames for the blind community - http://valiantGalaxy.com"

<Sent with Thunderbird 52.1.0 portable>
On 4/15/2018 5:51 PM, Lisa P Geibel wrote:

Hi,
Forgive me for this post looking like it does, but I have to do email with my iPhone and I'm not as good with that as I am with the computer. Ours just died tis morning and we're going to try to get a new one as soon as we can. We're currently looking at a Lenovo, but this will be the first computer my husband and I have bought solo and are going to try to set it up with little to no sighted assistance as that would cost more. I know it can and has been done by other blind people, but I don't know if this particular brand has been done. Should this be doable using Narrarator then NVDA or do these computers have some sort of funky screen that must be gotten through by a sighted person like a few years ago with some? It will have Windows 10 on it if that helps any? Thanks for any help and wish us luck. We're thinking of getting it from Best Buy.

Sent from Lisa's iPhone6

On Apr 15, 2018, at 3:20 PM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

On Sun, Apr 15, 2018 at 11:30 am, Gene wrote:
I don't use IMAP so I can't compare.  But without more information, the assumption that everyone should use IMAP shouldn't be made. 
Yes, Gene, it can be made if one is setting up a new account.   There is absolutely no advantage of POP unless you have constant need to access very old e-mail messages and are very frequently not connected to the internet.  And that's whether or not one is using multiple devices or not.   IMAP keeps all messages, and folders you may create for categorizing them, on the e-mail server and I don't know of a single data center that doesn't have far better backup plans than any individual could have.  This also saves the nightmare of having to export and import e-mail messages if one changes computers or adds another computer or mobile device from which one now wishes to access mail.

Even if one is setting up one's existing account, that has been using POP, it's better to set it up as IMAP in the new e-mail client and transfer all of your existing mail over to the server using your current client to do so.  It's all well documented in this article:  https://www.msoutlook.info/question/634

IMAP has come to supplant POP almost entirely, and for good reasons.  I would never suggest setting up a new account as POP because most people these days do want to have the ability to access the same account or accounts from multiple devices and, even if they don't, the convenience of being able to abandon one e-mail client for another and just set up their account in another and everything is "automagically" there.
 
--
Brian  Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1709, Build 16299  (dot level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)

     The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement.  But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.

            Niels Bohr

 

 



Re: NVDA and Windows Audio Service (audiodg.exe)

valiant8086
 

Hi.


If you have Wave max, it should be available in the system tray. If it asks you what you just plugged in when you connect a wired audio device like headphones, you may have wave max.


It's integrated  into the realtek audio driver. If you do uninstall it and get the generic driver, and that works ok for you, it'll eventually update the driver again by itself without your permission, so you'd need to block it using one of the methods I mentioned earlier.


I also forgot to point out that even with the high processor usage of audiodg.exe that the rest of us are talking about, high ram usage shouldn't be happening, that's not consistent with the norm.Dumping wave max and going for generic drivers as I discussed was for purposes of freeing up cpu time for things more important. Doing this improves computer performance to some degree, especially on low end models like the inspiron 11 systems, and it reduces running temps and increases battery life noticeably.


Someone suggested just disabling it. Yes, you can do this, but on some systems, at least the inspiron11 I had for a few days, that causes the headphones to sound really tinny and make you feel like you're listening to the sound through aluminum pipes speaking tube over a fare distance, and it didn't revert the cpu usage of audiodg.exe to the expected low that occurs on normal systems. With the enhancements enabled, on that inspiron 11 with the admittedly lousy intel celleron n3050 cpu, it used around 15 percent with wave max fully enabled, 7 percent with it disabled, and 1 percent to 0 percent with the generic driver. With a dual core cpu, you can multiply all of those percentages by 2 to get the rough estimate of how much of a single cpu core that was using  and thus how much extra cpu cycles were being wasted for something totally unnecessary.


If you folks know how to complain to dell and Microsoft to get this issue fixed, I'd be very appreciative. Wave max does have its benefits, but the benefits don't outweigh the drawbacks, and not being able to disable it fully without being an absolute computer wiz with incredible patience for researching how to do obscure things is a real shame. As someone else said, it is enough to make having a dell not a viable option except in the most extreme cases. Most folks don't realize what's happening. Their dell just runs a little warm, it's a little more sluggish perhaps. They have no idea there's untapped battery, performance and thermal potential just being wasted on that nifty sound card.







Cheers:
Aaron Spears, A.K.A. valiant8086. General Partner - Valiant Galaxy Associates "We make Very Good Audiogames for the blind community - http://valiantGalaxy.com"

<Sent with Thunderbird 52.1.0 portable>

On 4/13/2018 6:17 PM, Luke Scholey wrote:
Hi Tyler
How do you access the Dell audio Control Panel? I know through all my searching I haven’t found a way of disabling enhancements because I don’t think my laptop has any.
Thanks
Luke

On 13 Apr 2018, at 22:34, Brian Moore <bmoore@screenreview.org> wrote:

when I used it, was exactly the same with Jaws. I never had the ram issues but could never get the audio working correctly.


On 13/04/2018 5:33 PM, Tyler Wood wrote:
Hi,

GOing to the dell audio control panel on my dell and disabling the enhancements fixed my audio service from taking up unneeded processor though it never did use more ram.

It also fixed the over driving of speech, but I also did not have wave max audio.


Though, I don't think dell is the only one doing this these days.



On 13-Apr-2018 4:23 PM, Luke Scholey wrote:
no, Jaws works fine.
In my opinion, it’s either NVDA or an obscure Dell problem that I haven’t figured out yet.
Thanks
Luke

On 13 Apr 2018, at 21:53, Ervin, Glenn <glenn.ervin@nebraska.gov> wrote:

Does it happen with Jaws?
A Jaws demo would allow you to test.
This knowledge might help make NVDA more robust.
Glenn

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Luke Scholey
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2018 3:45 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and Windows Audio Service (audiodg.exe)

Agree with all the points raised here, unfortunately it is a Dell and there is no way of accessing any other audio Control Panel.
A USB headset or Bluetooth headset has the same problem unfortunately.
The thing I don’t understand is, why do enhancements matter to NVDA? Why not the same issue with narrator?
Audiodg.exe currently at 2.3 GB ram at the moment haha I’m beginning to loose my mind.
Thanks
Luke

On 13 Apr 2018, at 21:08, enes sarıbaş <enes.saribas@gmail.com> wrote:

but the app should have an option to turn off the enhancements. They can't force those. There should be a hidden registry setting or group policy. Sounds like a talk with dell or microsoft is in order. Someone should contact dell, and explain that the enhancements are problamatic with screen reader users, and an option is required to disable them for blind users. Also, if microsoft wanted, it could add an option to disable audio enhancements from the ease of access center.


On 4/13/2018 11:01 PM, Brian Moore wrote:
Hi. I have seen this on a few newer laptops where there was actually no option in the control panel for realtek or anywhere else to disable the enhancements. It was a serious problem as with speech, it was over driving the audio and there was lots of distortion. there didn't seem to be a way that any of us could find to disable it.


the "dell audio" app seems to be integrated with the realtek stuff with no separate entry for removing it. You can uninstall the driver and get a standard realtek driver but you do loose combo jacks etc when you do that.


I was only using this laptop for a short term contract so lived with it for 5 weeks but this would have been grounds to return one if it were one I owned.




On 04/13/2018 3:50 PM, enes sarıbaş wrote:
it isn't specific to Dell. Try enabling DTS and IDT sound effects for toshiba satallite l50 series laptops. Thank god there is a disable enhancements checkbox for sound effects, and a disable option in the system tray icon of DTS.

Wait what, dell doesn't allow you to disable enhancements in the sound settings? That is retarded seriously. There should be a check box in the actual realtech control panel, which you will likely need sighted help to access.


On 4/13/2018 4:42 PM, Luke Scholey wrote:
It is a Dell yes.
Interesting suggestion there, I’ll give it a go. How do I delete the driver? And also, why do you think this issue specific to NVDA?
I’m not that confident with Dell laptops at the moment, but they seem to be popping up in my life a lot more often.
Thanks
Luke

On 13 Apr 2018, at 13:43, valiant8086 <valiant8086@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi.


Is this a dell? If so, I'll need to gloat for a bit. I have a serious hate on for the wave max audio stuff. If it is, a possible fix is to delete the audio driver and reboot. For a short while after you reboot, you'll have a stock windows driver that works fine with the only exception being that it doesn't support headsets with the microphone on the same 8th inch plug in a combo jack, it still records from internal even if you use a headset with a microphone on it. Note though a couple of things, if you end up with no sound, you need a way to recover. I suggest making sure NVDA remote is set to auto start and auto connect in the allow another pc to control this one mode, and if you have another computer handy, restart without doing anything else to ensure you're able to get in from the other computer. Alternatively if you have a USB sound device you could plug in, that'll work.


If this solution works, until the driver updates itself again, you can use the WinaeroTweaker application (free download) to block all driver updates. Dell is really good about making sure your drivers stay up to date so drastic measures are needed to stop it. I don't even know if this will work, when I had a dell for a few days I didn't know about this, so I tried another alternative that worked, denying system write privilages to the realtek folder in program files (and program files (x86) both, but for the system account only If you do it that way, be darn sure you don't accidentally do it to your own account or I won't be able to figure out how to get you to be able to see the folder again to fix it. Deny write and modify to it, for the system account and only that.


Alternatively, if this is recent, let's blame NVDA? Lol



Cheers:
Aaron Spears, A.K.A. valiant8086. General Partner - Valiant Galaxy Associates "We make Very Good Audiogames for the blind community - http://valiantGalaxy.com"

<Sent with Thunderbird 52.1.0 portable>

On 4/12/2018 1:03 PM, Luke Scholey wrote:
Correct, my device doesn’t have this so unfortunately doesn’t apply.
Thanks though
Luke

On 12 Apr 2018, at 17:55, Rob Hudson <rob_hudson_3182@gmx.com> wrote:

Ralf Kefferpuetz <ralf.kefferpuetz@elra-consulting.de> wrote:
Have you tried to disable the audio enhancements, please read below.
Not every audio device has audio enhancements. So this isn't a surefire fix.


--
Luke Scholey
Webmaster i/c Publishing
lukescholey.co.uk
Tel: +44 7759 282586
Email: l.scholey@lukescholey.co.uk

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Re: NVDA and Windows Audio Service (audiodg.exe)

valiant8086
 

Hi.


No actually, USB and bluetooth shouldn't pose the same problem. Completely different device driver, wave max shouldn't apply.

Cheers:

Aaron Spears, A.K.A. valiant8086. General Partner - Valiant Galaxy Associates "We make Very Good Audiogames for the blind community - http://valiantGalaxy.com"

<Sent with Thunderbird 52.1.0 portable>

On 4/13/2018 4:45 PM, Luke Scholey wrote:
Agree with all the points raised here, unfortunately it is a Dell and there is no way of accessing any other audio Control Panel.
A USB headset or Bluetooth headset has the same problem unfortunately.
The thing I don’t understand is, why do enhancements matter to NVDA? Why not the same issue with narrator?
Audiodg.exe currently at 2.3 GB ram at the moment haha I’m beginning to loose my mind.
Thanks
Luke

On 13 Apr 2018, at 21:08, enes sarıbaş <enes.saribas@gmail.com> wrote:

but the app should have an option to turn off the enhancements. They can't force those. There should be a hidden registry setting or group policy. Sounds like a talk with dell or microsoft is in order. Someone should contact dell, and explain that the enhancements are problamatic with screen reader users, and an option is required to disable them for blind users. Also, if microsoft wanted, it could add an option to disable audio enhancements from the ease of access center.


On 4/13/2018 11:01 PM, Brian Moore wrote:
Hi. I have seen this on a few newer laptops where there was actually no option in the control panel for realtek or anywhere else to disable the enhancements. It was a serious problem as with speech, it was over driving the audio and there was lots of distortion. there didn't seem to be a way that any of us could find to disable it.


the "dell audio" app seems to be integrated with the realtek stuff with no separate entry for removing it. You can uninstall the driver and get a standard realtek driver but you do loose combo jacks etc when you do that.


I was only using this laptop for a short term contract so lived with it for 5 weeks but this would have been grounds to return one if it were one I owned.




On 04/13/2018 3:50 PM, enes sarıbaş wrote:
it isn't specific to Dell. Try enabling DTS and IDT sound effects for toshiba satallite l50 series laptops. Thank god there is a disable enhancements checkbox for sound effects, and a disable option in the system tray icon of DTS.

Wait what, dell doesn't allow you to disable enhancements in the sound settings? That is retarded seriously. There should be a check box in the actual realtech control panel, which you will likely need sighted help to access.


On 4/13/2018 4:42 PM, Luke Scholey wrote:
It is a Dell yes.
Interesting suggestion there, I’ll give it a go. How do I delete the driver? And also, why do you think this issue specific to NVDA?
I’m not that confident with Dell laptops at the moment, but they seem to be popping up in my life a lot more often.
Thanks
Luke

On 13 Apr 2018, at 13:43, valiant8086 <valiant8086@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi.


Is this a dell? If so, I'll need to gloat for a bit. I have a serious hate on for the wave max audio stuff. If it is, a possible fix is to delete the audio driver and reboot. For a short while after you reboot, you'll have a stock windows driver that works fine with the only exception being that it doesn't support headsets with the microphone on the same 8th inch plug in a combo jack, it still records from internal even if you use a headset with a microphone on it. Note though a couple of things, if you end up with no sound, you need a way to recover. I suggest making sure NVDA remote is set to auto start and auto connect in the allow another pc to control this one mode, and if you have another computer handy, restart without doing anything else to ensure you're able to get in from the other computer. Alternatively if you have a USB sound device you could plug in, that'll work.


If this solution works, until the driver updates itself again, you can use the WinaeroTweaker application (free download) to block all driver updates. Dell is really good about making sure your drivers stay up to date so drastic measures are needed to stop it. I don't even know if this will work, when I had a dell for a few days I didn't know about this, so I tried another alternative that worked, denying system write privilages to the realtek folder in program files (and program files (x86) both, but for the system account only If you do it that way, be darn sure you don't accidentally do it to your own account or I won't be able to figure out how to get you to be able to see the folder again to fix it. Deny write and modify to it, for the system account and only that.


Alternatively, if this is recent, let's blame NVDA? Lol



Cheers:
Aaron Spears, A.K.A. valiant8086. General Partner - Valiant Galaxy Associates "We make Very Good Audiogames for the blind community - http://valiantGalaxy.com"

<Sent with Thunderbird 52.1.0 portable>

On 4/12/2018 1:03 PM, Luke Scholey wrote:
Correct, my device doesn’t have this so unfortunately doesn’t apply.
Thanks though
Luke

On 12 Apr 2018, at 17:55, Rob Hudson <rob_hudson_3182@gmx.com> wrote:

Ralf Kefferpuetz <ralf.kefferpuetz@elra-consulting.de> wrote:
Have you tried to disable the audio enhancements, please read below.
Not every audio device has audio enhancements. So this isn't a surefire fix.


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Tel: +44 7759 282586
Email: l.scholey@lukescholey.co.uk

WWW.LUKESCHOLEY.CO.UK
All feedback and questions welcome. The site admin can be contacted at:
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All content copyright © 2012-2018 LukeScholey.co.uk
Confidentiality Notice:
This message and any attachments are private and confidential and may be subject to legal privilege and copyright. If you are not the intended recipient please do not publish or copy it to anyone else. If you have received this message in error please notify the sender immediately by using the reply facility in your email software and then remove it from your system.
Disclaimer:
Although this email and attachments have been scanned for viruses, LukeScholey.co.uk accepts no liability for any loss or damage arising from the receipt or use of this communication.




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Luke Scholey
Webmaster i/c Publishing
lukescholey.co.uk
Tel: +44 7759 282586
Email: l.scholey@lukescholey.co.uk

WWW.LUKESCHOLEY.CO.UK
All feedback and questions welcome. The site admin can be contacted at:
webmaster@lukescholey.co.uk
All content copyright © 2012-2018 LukeScholey.co.uk
Confidentiality Notice:
This message and any attachments are private and confidential and may be subject to legal privilege and copyright. If you are not the intended recipient please do not publish or copy it to anyone else. If you have received this message in error please notify the sender immediately by using the reply facility in your email software and then remove it from your system.
Disclaimer:
Although this email and attachments have been scanned for viruses, LukeScholey.co.uk accepts no liability for any loss or damage arising from the receipt or use of this communication.


Re: Lenovo computers wunning Win10 and NVDA

Jessica D
 

Hi,

I don’t have any experience with that brand of computer, but I just updated my HP pivillian notebook from Windows 7 to windows 10.

I used seeing AI throughout the entire process.

 

Thanks,

Jessica

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Lisa P Geibel
Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2018 2:51 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Lenovo computers wunning Win10 and NVDA

 

Hi,

Forgive me for this post looking like it does, but I have to do email with my iPhone and I'm not as good with that as I am with the computer. Ours just died tis morning and we're going to try to get a new one as soon as we can. We're currently looking at a Lenovo, but this will be the first computer my husband and I have bought solo and are going to try to set it up with little to no sighted assistance as that would cost more. I know it can and has been done by other blind people, but I don't know if this particular brand has been done. Should this be doable using Narrarator then NVDA or do these computers have some sort of funky screen that must be gotten through by a sighted person like a few years ago with some? It will have Windows 10 on it if that helps any? Thanks for any help and wish us luck. We're thinking of getting it from Best Buy.

Sent from Lisa's iPhone6


On Apr 15, 2018, at 3:20 PM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

On Sun, Apr 15, 2018 at 11:30 am, Gene wrote:

I don't use IMAP so I can't compare.  But without more information, the assumption that everyone should use IMAP shouldn't be made. 

Yes, Gene, it can be made if one is setting up a new account.   There is absolutely no advantage of POP unless you have constant need to access very old e-mail messages and are very frequently not connected to the internet.  And that's whether or not one is using multiple devices or not.   IMAP keeps all messages, and folders you may create for categorizing them, on the e-mail server and I don't know of a single data center that doesn't have far better backup plans than any individual could have.  This also saves the nightmare of having to export and import e-mail messages if one changes computers or adds another computer or mobile device from which one now wishes to access mail.

Even if one is setting up one's existing account, that has been using POP, it's better to set it up as IMAP in the new e-mail client and transfer all of your existing mail over to the server using your current client to do so.  It's all well documented in this article:  https://www.msoutlook.info/question/634

IMAP has come to supplant POP almost entirely, and for good reasons.  I would never suggest setting up a new account as POP because most people these days do want to have the ability to access the same account or accounts from multiple devices and, even if they don't, the convenience of being able to abandon one e-mail client for another and just set up their account in another and everything is "automagically" there.
 
--
Brian  Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1709, Build 16299  (dot level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)

     The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement.  But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.

            Niels Bohr

 

 

 


Re: help, can't get balloon about Win 10 back!

Gene New Zealand <hurrikennyandopo@...>
 

Hi


is it asking for a product key and giveing you a 30 day count down?


I think i have a machine here which has windows 10 which is unregisted from scratch as it did not get the free upgrade because it had vista on it and it is still going.


I also had a friend who upgraded not all that long ago from windows 7 using assistive tec and no registration or payment required no water marks etc as well.



Gene nz



On 4/16/2018 10:25 AM, Jessica D wrote:
Hi,
I'm proud to say, that as of this afternoon, I updated to Windows 10, without speech, using "seeing AI" on my iphone.
All I need now, is a product key.
My computer is very fast now. 



Thanks,
Jessica


On Apr 15, 2018, at 6:13 PM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

Several observations:

  1. If you have Windows 7 (any edition) and are still getting any sort of "Upgrade to Windows 10" messages the only reason would be that your Windows Update process is broken, since GWX [Get Windows X - Ten] was removed by Windows Update on Windows 7 systems within a few weeks of the end of July 2016.  That, or you or someone else set up something to intentionally block Windows Updates (and many people did for GWX) that blocked the removal patch from downloading and installing.
  2. Even though the free update period is over officially, updates to Windows 10 on Windows 7 and Windows 8/8.1 systems continues to work, at least as of last week.  You can use the method documented in:  Updating Windows 10 using the Windows 10 ISO file
  3. The free Upgrade to Windows 10 for Users of Assistive Technologies ended as of 12/31/2017, as you'll see if you check out the webpage.  You can no longer download the Windows 10 ISO or use the Update Assistant from that page.

--
Brian  Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1709, Build 16299  (dot level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)

     The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement.  But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.

            Niels Bohr

 

 



Re: help, can't get balloon about Win 10 back!

 

Jessica,

          Before you look into buying a product key see if Windows 10 is activated already.  Go to Settings, Update & Security, Activation Pane and see what's indicated under the Activation section at the top of the pane.

--
Brian  Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1709, Build 16299  (dot level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)

     The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement.  But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.

            Niels Bohr

 

 


Re: help, can't get balloon about Win 10 back!

Guy Schlosser
 




Seeing AI rocks! Love that for reading bios screens, and other screens that don’t seem to speak.

 On Apr 15, 2018, at 6:25 PM, Jessica D <jldail13@...> wrote:

Hi,
I'm proud to say, that as of this afternoon, I updated to Windows 10, without speech, using "seeing AI" on my iphone.
All I need now, is a product key.
My computer is very fast now. 



Thanks,
Jessica


On Apr 15, 2018, at 6:13 PM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

Several observations:

  1. If you have Windows 7 (any edition) and are still getting any sort of "Upgrade to Windows 10" messages the only reason would be that your Windows Update process is broken, since GWX [Get Windows X - Ten] was removed by Windows Update on Windows 7 systems within a few weeks of the end of July 2016.  That, or you or someone else set up something to intentionally block Windows Updates (and many people did for GWX) that blocked the removal patch from downloading and installing.
  2. Even though the free update period is over officially, updates to Windows 10 on Windows 7 and Windows 8/8.1 systems continues to work, at least as of last week.  You can use the method documented in:  Updating Windows 10 using the Windows 10 ISO file
  3. The free Upgrade to Windows 10 for Users of Assistive Technologies ended as of 12/31/2017, as you'll see if you check out the webpage.  You can no longer download the Windows 10 ISO or use the Update Assistant from that page.

--
Brian  Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1709, Build 16299  (dot level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)

     The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement.  But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.

            Niels Bohr

 

 


WintenApps add-on advisory: emoji panel work is under testing in NVDA next builds at the moment

 

Hi everyone,

 

The following is considered a major advisory for Windows 10 App Essentials add-on users as it’ll affect future release plans:

 

As of April 16, 2018, NVDA next snapshot (build 15031 and later) includes emoji panel support in Windows 10 Fall Creators Update (Version 1709) and later. This means, in the future, you don’t need to use WintenApps add-on to navigate emoji panel. Once this work becomes part of NVDA master snapshot and subsequently made available to stable build users, the WintenApps add-on will retire emoji panel support routines until a later time when enhancements must be made to NVDA’s support for it.

 

Also, not stated in the subject line: looks like I need to break CB/CBB support again; CB (current branch) refers to latest NVDA release, in this case, 2018.1.x, and CBB (current branch for business) refers to immediate predecessor (in this case, 2017.4). This means, a major version of WintenApps add-on will hit the air no more than 24 hours after the release of NVDA 2018.2 final, and that major version will absolutely require NVDA 2018.2 and later. Typically I try my best to support current and immediate past NVDA versions, but due to massive incompatible changes, latest NVDA release will be required. These incompatible changes include code needed to support UIA notification event, and changes needed to let emoji panel work derive its power from NVDA Core itself (not on its own).

 

Thanks.

Cheers,

Joseph


Re: help, can't get balloon about Win 10 back!

Jessica D
 

Hi,
I'm proud to say, that as of this afternoon, I updated to Windows 10, without speech, using "seeing AI" on my iphone.
All I need now, is a product key.
My computer is very fast now. 



Thanks,
Jessica


On Apr 15, 2018, at 6:13 PM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

Several observations:

  1. If you have Windows 7 (any edition) and are still getting any sort of "Upgrade to Windows 10" messages the only reason would be that your Windows Update process is broken, since GWX [Get Windows X - Ten] was removed by Windows Update on Windows 7 systems within a few weeks of the end of July 2016.  That, or you or someone else set up something to intentionally block Windows Updates (and many people did for GWX) that blocked the removal patch from downloading and installing.
  2. Even though the free update period is over officially, updates to Windows 10 on Windows 7 and Windows 8/8.1 systems continues to work, at least as of last week.  You can use the method documented in:  Updating Windows 10 using the Windows 10 ISO file
  3. The free Upgrade to Windows 10 for Users of Assistive Technologies ended as of 12/31/2017, as you'll see if you check out the webpage.  You can no longer download the Windows 10 ISO or use the Update Assistant from that page.

--
Brian  Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1709, Build 16299  (dot level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)

     The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement.  But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.

            Niels Bohr

 

 


Re: help, can't get balloon about Win 10 back!

 

Several observations:

  1. If you have Windows 7 (any edition) and are still getting any sort of "Upgrade to Windows 10" messages the only reason would be that your Windows Update process is broken, since GWX [Get Windows X - Ten] was removed by Windows Update on Windows 7 systems within a few weeks of the end of July 2016.  That, or you or someone else set up something to intentionally block Windows Updates (and many people did for GWX) that blocked the removal patch from downloading and installing.
  2. Even though the free update period is over officially, updates to Windows 10 on Windows 7 and Windows 8/8.1 systems continues to work, at least as of last week.  You can use the method documented in:  Updating Windows 10 using the Windows 10 ISO file
  3. The free Upgrade to Windows 10 for Users of Assistive Technologies ended as of 12/31/2017, as you'll see if you check out the webpage.  You can no longer download the Windows 10 ISO or use the Update Assistant from that page.

--
Brian  Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1709, Build 16299  (dot level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)

     The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement.  But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.

            Niels Bohr

 

 


Re: Lenovo computers wunning Win10 and NVDA

Guy Schlosser
 

Hi Lisa, this should be totally doable for you, at least until you can get to a desktop to start the installation of NVDA. Windows 10 narrator, is much further along than the one that came with Windows 7, or even Windows 8. When you turn on your new computer, you want to press control  windows enter to start narrator. If you have any further questions, feel free to ask.

Guy


On Apr 15, 2018, at 5:51 PM, Lisa P Geibel <lisapgeibel429@...> wrote:

Hi,
Forgive me for this post looking like it does, but I have to do email with my iPhone and I'm not as good with that as I am with the computer. Ours just died tis morning and we're going to try to get a new one as soon as we can. We're currently looking at a Lenovo, but this will be the first computer my husband and I have bought solo and are going to try to set it up with little to no sighted assistance as that would cost more. I know it can and has been done by other blind people, but I don't know if this particular brand has been done. Should this be doable using Narrarator then NVDA or do these computers have some sort of funky screen that must be gotten through by a sighted person like a few years ago with some? It will have Windows 10 on it if that helps any? Thanks for any help and wish us luck. We're thinking of getting it from Best Buy.

Sent from Lisa's iPhone6

On Apr 15, 2018, at 3:20 PM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

On Sun, Apr 15, 2018 at 11:30 am, Gene wrote:
I don't use IMAP so I can't compare.  But without more information, the assumption that everyone should use IMAP shouldn't be made. 
Yes, Gene, it can be made if one is setting up a new account.   There is absolutely no advantage of POP unless you have constant need to access very old e-mail messages and are very frequently not connected to the internet.  And that's whether or not one is using multiple devices or not.   IMAP keeps all messages, and folders you may create for categorizing them, on the e-mail server and I don't know of a single data center that doesn't have far better backup plans than any individual could have.  This also saves the nightmare of having to export and import e-mail messages if one changes computers or adds another computer or mobile device from which one now wishes to access mail.

Even if one is setting up one's existing account, that has been using POP, it's better to set it up as IMAP in the new e-mail client and transfer all of your existing mail over to the server using your current client to do so.  It's all well documented in this article:  https://www.msoutlook.info/question/634

IMAP has come to supplant POP almost entirely, and for good reasons.  I would never suggest setting up a new account as POP because most people these days do want to have the ability to access the same account or accounts from multiple devices and, even if they don't, the convenience of being able to abandon one e-mail client for another and just set up their account in another and everything is "automagically" there.
 
--
Brian  Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1709, Build 16299  (dot level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)

     The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement.  But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.

            Niels Bohr

 

 


Re: Lenovo computers wunning Win10 and NVDA

Brian Moore
 

Hi.  with most of these, you should be ablle to get narrator going out of the box by pressing ctrl+windows+enter when the thing starts.



I have done several machines from nothing to fully functioning with no eyes at all with windows 10.  However, the lenovo version may have extra screens I am not aware of.  For example, I have encountered some hp screens which made you choose  a language before any doperating system was loaded.  However, since you are not in a by-linugual country, ti is far less likely.


Brian.


On 15/04/2018 5:51 PM, Lisa P Geibel wrote:
Hi,
Forgive me for this post looking like it does, but I have to do email with my iPhone and I'm not as good with that as I am with the computer. Ours just died tis morning and we're going to try to get a new one as soon as we can. We're currently looking at a Lenovo, but this will be the first computer my husband and I have bought solo and are going to try to set it up with little to no sighted assistance as that would cost more. I know it can and has been done by other blind people, but I don't know if this particular brand has been done. Should this be doable using Narrarator then NVDA or do these computers have some sort of funky screen that must be gotten through by a sighted person like a few years ago with some? It will have Windows 10 on it if that helps any? Thanks for any help and wish us luck. We're thinking of getting it from Best Buy.

Sent from Lisa's iPhone6

On Apr 15, 2018, at 3:20 PM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

On Sun, Apr 15, 2018 at 11:30 am, Gene wrote:
I don't use IMAP so I can't compare.  But without more information, the assumption that everyone should use IMAP shouldn't be made. 
Yes, Gene, it can be made if one is setting up a new account.   There is absolutely no advantage of POP unless you have constant need to access very old e-mail messages and are very frequently not connected to the internet.  And that's whether or not one is using multiple devices or not.   IMAP keeps all messages, and folders you may create for categorizing them, on the e-mail server and I don't know of a single data center that doesn't have far better backup plans than any individual could have.  This also saves the nightmare of having to export and import e-mail messages if one changes computers or adds another computer or mobile device from which one now wishes to access mail.

Even if one is setting up one's existing account, that has been using POP, it's better to set it up as IMAP in the new e-mail client and transfer all of your existing mail over to the server using your current client to do so.  It's all well documented in this article:  https://www.msoutlook.info/question/634

IMAP has come to supplant POP almost entirely, and for good reasons.  I would never suggest setting up a new account as POP because most people these days do want to have the ability to access the same account or accounts from multiple devices and, even if they don't, the convenience of being able to abandon one e-mail client for another and just set up their account in another and everything is "automagically" there.
 
--
Brian  Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1709, Build 16299  (dot level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)

     The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement.  But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.

            Niels Bohr

 

 



Lenovo computers wunning Win10 and NVDA

Lisa P Geibel
 

Hi,
Forgive me for this post looking like it does, but I have to do email with my iPhone and I'm not as good with that as I am with the computer. Ours just died tis morning and we're going to try to get a new one as soon as we can. We're currently looking at a Lenovo, but this will be the first computer my husband and I have bought solo and are going to try to set it up with little to no sighted assistance as that would cost more. I know it can and has been done by other blind people, but I don't know if this particular brand has been done. Should this be doable using Narrarator then NVDA or do these computers have some sort of funky screen that must be gotten through by a sighted person like a few years ago with some? It will have Windows 10 on it if that helps any? Thanks for any help and wish us luck. We're thinking of getting it from Best Buy.

Sent from Lisa's iPhone6

On Apr 15, 2018, at 3:20 PM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

On Sun, Apr 15, 2018 at 11:30 am, Gene wrote:
I don't use IMAP so I can't compare.  But without more information, the assumption that everyone should use IMAP shouldn't be made. 
Yes, Gene, it can be made if one is setting up a new account.   There is absolutely no advantage of POP unless you have constant need to access very old e-mail messages and are very frequently not connected to the internet.  And that's whether or not one is using multiple devices or not.   IMAP keeps all messages, and folders you may create for categorizing them, on the e-mail server and I don't know of a single data center that doesn't have far better backup plans than any individual could have.  This also saves the nightmare of having to export and import e-mail messages if one changes computers or adds another computer or mobile device from which one now wishes to access mail.

Even if one is setting up one's existing account, that has been using POP, it's better to set it up as IMAP in the new e-mail client and transfer all of your existing mail over to the server using your current client to do so.  It's all well documented in this article:  https://www.msoutlook.info/question/634

IMAP has come to supplant POP almost entirely, and for good reasons.  I would never suggest setting up a new account as POP because most people these days do want to have the ability to access the same account or accounts from multiple devices and, even if they don't, the convenience of being able to abandon one e-mail client for another and just set up their account in another and everything is "automagically" there.
 
--
Brian  Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1709, Build 16299  (dot level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)

     The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement.  But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.

            Niels Bohr