Date   

Re: Google docs and NVDA and Chrome

Sylvie Duchateau
 

Hello Dan,

Google docs works fine with Chrome and NVDA.

You have to enable screen reader support in pressing ctrl+alt+Z.

Sylvie

Le 18/04/2018 à 17:35, Dan Beaver a écrit :

HI,


I have had a document shared with me but I can't seem to find a way to read it.  I can only hear the first line which says "About:".


Is it possible to access google docs with NVDA and Chrome?


Thanks.


Dan Beaver



Re: Dragging and Dropping with NVDA

Ron Canazzi
 

Hi Brian,


A useful add on that is obtained from Thunderbird itself is called Quick Folder key navigation.  This will allow you to use first letter navigation to move from folder to folder when in the tree view of folders.  This restores a key function that blind users liked in the old faithful Outlook Express.


If you are using NVDA, searching for this add on within Thunderbird is quite simple.  Click tools/add ons and tab 3 times to the  edit field.  Then type in quick folder key navigation and wait a few seconds.  Then tab once more to the list of results.  There should only be one.  Then use the right click menu to choose install and follow the prompts.



On 4/18/2018 11:31 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 09:36 pm, Ron Canazzi wrote:
The NVDA add on you want is called Mozilla Apps Enhancements. 
Thanks Ron.   This clears up another bit of confusion as I was not thinking of an NVDA Add-On but of a Thunderbird Add-On, of which there are more than I can count.
 
--
Brian  Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1709, Build 16299  (dot level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)

     The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement.  But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.

            Niels Bohr

 

 


-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


Re: help, can't get balloon about Win 10 back!

 

On Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 08:29 am, Ervin, Glenn wrote:
I have seen many folks get a new computer because their old one is now slow.
Glenn,

            You are entirely correct that a very great many systems become sluggish because of the long collection of garbage in all sorts of locations over time.  This can almost always be cured by doing a completely clean installation of whatever operating system it is that you have been using on that machine.

            This is not, of course, a trivial undertaking since you will need to back up all your user data and also make sure that all programs you routinely use are available for reinstallation either with the original media you got when you bought them or via download.  Then you've got to reconfigure your system settings, upload all that user data, and get all those programs installed again.

             Another thing that can add an awful lot of additional speed to a system is changing out the conventional hard disk drive for a solid state drive.  If the drive on your system is not huge the price of SSDs is dropping enough these days that this is an excellent way of getting a significant additional performance boost as well.
 
--
Brian  Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1709, Build 16299  (dot level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)

     The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement.  But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.

            Niels Bohr

 

 


Google docs and NVDA and Chrome

Dan Beaver
 

HI,


I have had a document shared with me but I can't seem to find a way to read it.  I can only hear the first line which says "About:".


Is it possible to access google docs with NVDA and Chrome?


Thanks.


Dan Beaver


Re: Dragging and Dropping with NVDA

 

On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 09:36 pm, Ron Canazzi wrote:
The NVDA add on you want is called Mozilla Apps Enhancements. 
Thanks Ron.   This clears up another bit of confusion as I was not thinking of an NVDA Add-On but of a Thunderbird Add-On, of which there are more than I can count.
 
--
Brian  Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1709, Build 16299  (dot level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)

     The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement.  But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.

            Niels Bohr

 

 


Re: help, can't get balloon about Win 10 back!

Ervin, Glenn
 

I have seen many folks get a new computer because their old one is now slow.
They forget how fast it was when they first got it.
One can boot up to WinPE or use Linux to copy out the files if Windows does not allow them to copy out certain files from the user's folder.
Or if one is organized and knows where the critical keeper files are, just copy them out, and if one's eMail is on the server, the computer can be restored to a brand-new state and just put the files back.
No need to get a new computer, or new OS.
Glenn

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2018 4:56 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] help, can't get balloon about Win 10 back!

I'd not say 7 is slow. I think we need to know if its always been slow or has slowed, and then discuss why. In my experience when i did dip my toe in the 10 water, a machine which was slow on xp or 7 was equally slow on 10!
Not always of course, but it depends on the reason for the slowness, ie processor throttling lack of ram or hard disc fragmentation. often fitting an ssd in a machine seems to miraculously speed it up!
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jessica D" <jldail13@gmail.com>
To: "NVDA users list" <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Cc: "Jaws user list" <main@jfw.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2018 6:10 PM
Subject: [nvda] help, can't get balloon about Win 10 back!


Hi,
I have a windows 7 laptop, with both Jaws 16, and NVDA 2018.1.1 on it
This morning, when I booted the system, I got a message in the corner of my
screen, which said, "get windows 10" so I clicked it, and supposedly,
reserved my copy.
note: at that time, I wasn't connected to wifi, but apparently it still
worked.
I wish I could get that balloon back, now that I'm connected just to make
sure.
Windows 7 is very slow.

What can I do?
Sorry for cross-posting but I felt that was best, since I have both
screen-readers installed, although, Jaws is unlicensed.

Thanks for any help you can provide.



Thanks,
Jessica


Re: Email clients

 

With regard to Gmail and  POP, if it's been enabled since "Day One" of your account's existence, even if you have not used POP, you have two choices as to how POP will behave if you were to configure an e-mail client program to access the account that way:

  1. Enable POP for all mail (even messages that have already been downloaded)
  2. Enable POP for mail that arrives from now on.
  3. Disable POP   -   this choice, of course, prevents POP access, but it is the third option

All of my Gmail accounts are old enough that POP had still not fallen out of favor when they were set up, which was at least 10 years ago at a minimum.  At the top of the POP section there is a line that reads, "Status: POP is enabled for all mail that has arrived since <account creation date here>."

You are also given a choice about what Gmail should do with it's own copy when a message is accessed using POP via an e-mail client that reads:
                      When messages are accessed with POP, followed by a dropdown box with the following choices:

                                      1. Keep Gmail's copy in the inbox
                                      2. Mark Gmail's copy as read
                                      3. Archive Gmail's copy
                                      4. Delete Gmail's copy

If one plans to access mail from multiple locations on multiple devices using e-mail client programs IMAP is the way to go, and unquestionably.  It keeps things "in sync" across all devices provided that one's filtering is done on the e-mail server side (preferable, as that is performed as the messages arrive) or you have one of your clients that runs 24/7 that applies the filters you set up on the client side to sort messages into your IMAP folders which are seen by all clients.  The second option is far less preferable since if that client that does the sorting goes offline then the sorting itself stops.

I tested all this out via Thunderbird the other day and while it's a simple matter to create IMAP folders from within Thunderbird itself creating the filters in Thunderbird does not cause them to be created on the server side, but only within Thunderbird, so if I were not running that instance of Thunderbird to be the "master sorter" then other clients would be seeing all mail land in the inbox, untouched.  I suspect the same would apply with MS-Outlook, but haven't tested it out yet.

For those using Gmail I wrote a tutorial a couple of years ago on how to create filters and IMAP folders (which Gmail calls labels) under Gmail's web interface with a screen reader: Creating IMAP Labels (Folders) and Filters for Gmail.    Using that method guarantees that the Gmail server will be doing all of the filtering and sorting for you before any one of your e-mail clients, whether ones you're currently using or might set up via IMAP access in the future, will ever gain access to the latest incoming messages.

--
Brian  Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1709, Build 16299  (dot level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)

     The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement.  But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.

            Niels Bohr

 

 


Re: Email clients

Devin Prater
 

You use Thunderbird, right? I’m starting to get back into using Windows more, and besides Thunderbird being a bit sluggish, it is pretty good.

On Apr 18, 2018, at 10:23 AM, Ervin, Glenn <glenn.ervin@nebraska.gov> wrote:

I don't like doing my eMail on a phone, it's a drag.
I even go the other direction, I text people all the time from my computer's eMail program, and they don't even realize it is coming from computer unless they are familiar with my doing that.
You can do that from your eMail by eMailing their 10-gigit-number at Domain.com
Each phone company has a different domain, Verizon has two of them...
@vtext.com and @vzwpix.com
Somewhere I have an entire list of domains for different phone companies and saved it, but they can be found with a web search for them.
Glenn

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2018 4:31 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Email clients

Well I an no doubt
you keep getting called dinosaurs, for not using email on a smart phone, everyone does this now they all say to me, nobody uses email on a computer any more!
To this I say bah humbug, and have been using Outlook Express tweaked version for some years in Windows 7 wi5th no problems. it also gives me access to newsgroups, which surprisingly are still alive out there, and has easy to configure message rules so I can have multiple email lists coming in, each sorted via pop3 to a different folder with no user input plus of course I can have both Imap and pop3 of the same account which lets me see spam folders in some isps emails.
I did try the providers web interfaces and while these can work well, you are at the mercy of web designers who are sadists. By that I mean that you tumble out of bed one day and find the whole user interface has been 'improved' to such an extent you have no idea what to do with it.
I'm just glad that OE is still supported by nvda and works well.
I did not like Live mail as it kept falling over and could not support identities which allows me to effectively keep different parts of my online life apart and not see them till I decide to see that part.

Unfortunately, although the patch works on windows 10, whenever windows does a complete update, it trashes things it does not like including oe, and one has to restore it again, taking up valuable time.
In your issues with Dropbox, I have to say I've had no issues with the latest systems indeed on windows 7, it seems to be faster generally. I do not use it on line only offline though, as if I wanted an on line storage system I'd not be using dropbox as its far too snazzy.


Pandering to the sighted again.

So unfortunately since you now have wlm, you are a bit stuffed as I do not think you can back convert to OE format. What you can do though is find a copy of the stand alone installer and not the stub as they put out latterly.

It was a shame that internet mail and news in 7 was not made accessible as it would have been nice. There is of course Outlook itself, but once again its like buying a combine harvester just cos you want a tractor.

Besides If I had ten pounds for everyone who has had aggro with the 2016 incarnation, I'd be living in style with servants by now.



So rant over, but I basically agree, where are the very easy to use, non
html based simple reliable email and news clients that blind people can use.
Maybe somebody needs to write one.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Damien Garwood" <damien@dcpendleton.plus.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2018 3:12 PM
Subject: [nvda] Email clients


Hi there,

Ten minutes in the life of seemingly old fashioned Damien, using Windows 7
and Windows Live Mail:
* Check emails.
* Install Dropbox.
* Realise that it’s turned into a pile of sludgy sluggish inaccessible mess.
* Uninstall Dropbox.
* Attempt to check emails.
* Receive a message that WLDCore.dll is missing.
So in that ten minutes, the only significant thing was to install and
uninstall Dropbox, leading me to think that Dropbox somehow corrupted it.
I'll save that rant for my rants folder.
I then nonchalantly uninstall, and launch the Windows Live Essentials
installer expecting to be able to repair it. Of course, it doesn’t budge.
Only then, do I find out that WLM has been discontinued, seemingly with
nothing to replace it for Windows 7 users. Another rant for my rants folder.

I wouldn’t be particularly bothered. I wouldn't say that WLM is the best
client I've ever used. In fact, every client I've used up to now could do
with some accessibility tips. Even so, despite its shortcomings, WLM was the
next best thing to OE and so I’ve been using that for the past four or five
years.
This puts me in a real dilemma. I’m only able to write this email now,
thanks to System Restore (A feature I swore I would never use thanks to its
abilities to mess things up). As a result, I highly feel that I need to get
a replacement client, hopefully something a little less sporadic in its
development and life/support cycles. However, I can’t find a basic,
accessible client that:
1. Is free of unnecessary outright bloated clutter,
2. Is fully accessible, responsive and comprehensible, and
3. Is able to import WLM folders and messages.

Here are the three that I have heard apparently work well, and my
experiences:

1. OEClassic
Since I liked Outlook Express, and since I have heard a lot about OEClassic
on this list, I thought it would make sense to first try that one. However I
was disappointed. When tabbing through the main window, I had no idea what
was what (the controls seemed to be unlabelled or labelled incorrectly), and
some even said “Unknown”. And that’s even before I touched any settings.

2. Pegasus
While Pegasus was the first email client I was ever introduced to, that was
nearly 20 years ago, and using a different screen reader. Similar to
OEClassic, I found several “Unknown” controls, not to mention the old
rich-text-based help system used in the Windows 98 days.

3. Thunderbird
Thunderbird was the only option of the three to allow me to set up a mailbox
before use, and even that was a nightmare, simply because it was determined
to persuade me to use encrypted channels. Also, while it does seem to be the
most accessible of the three in terms of navigation, it also seems full of
unnecessary clutter (different tabs, toolbars, calendars and news feeds,
half of which I’ll never use). Also can’t get my head around the fact that
its window makes heavy use of HTML – I’m used to seeing a good old listbox,
pressing enter on a message, and reading it.

Finally, WLM seems to be absent from import options of all three. I see
frequent mention of Outlook Express, Outlook, Windows Mail,
Thunderbird...But not Windows Live.
At this point, I've no idea what my next step is.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers.
Damien.







Re: Email clients

Ervin, Glenn
 

I don't like doing my eMail on a phone, it's a drag.
I even go the other direction, I text people all the time from my computer's eMail program, and they don't even realize it is coming from computer unless they are familiar with my doing that.
You can do that from your eMail by eMailing their 10-gigit-number at Domain.com
Each phone company has a different domain, Verizon has two of them...
@vtext.com and @vzwpix.com
Somewhere I have an entire list of domains for different phone companies and saved it, but they can be found with a web search for them.
Glenn

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2018 4:31 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Email clients

Well I an no doubt
you keep getting called dinosaurs, for not using email on a smart phone, everyone does this now they all say to me, nobody uses email on a computer any more!
To this I say bah humbug, and have been using Outlook Express tweaked version for some years in Windows 7 wi5th no problems. it also gives me access to newsgroups, which surprisingly are still alive out there, and has easy to configure message rules so I can have multiple email lists coming in, each sorted via pop3 to a different folder with no user input plus of course I can have both Imap and pop3 of the same account which lets me see spam folders in some isps emails.
I did try the providers web interfaces and while these can work well, you are at the mercy of web designers who are sadists. By that I mean that you tumble out of bed one day and find the whole user interface has been 'improved' to such an extent you have no idea what to do with it.
I'm just glad that OE is still supported by nvda and works well.
I did not like Live mail as it kept falling over and could not support identities which allows me to effectively keep different parts of my online life apart and not see them till I decide to see that part.

Unfortunately, although the patch works on windows 10, whenever windows does a complete update, it trashes things it does not like including oe, and one has to restore it again, taking up valuable time.
In your issues with Dropbox, I have to say I've had no issues with the latest systems indeed on windows 7, it seems to be faster generally. I do not use it on line only offline though, as if I wanted an on line storage system I'd not be using dropbox as its far too snazzy.


Pandering to the sighted again.

So unfortunately since you now have wlm, you are a bit stuffed as I do not think you can back convert to OE format. What you can do though is find a copy of the stand alone installer and not the stub as they put out latterly.

It was a shame that internet mail and news in 7 was not made accessible as it would have been nice. There is of course Outlook itself, but once again its like buying a combine harvester just cos you want a tractor.

Besides If I had ten pounds for everyone who has had aggro with the 2016 incarnation, I'd be living in style with servants by now.



So rant over, but I basically agree, where are the very easy to use, non
html based simple reliable email and news clients that blind people can use.
Maybe somebody needs to write one.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Damien Garwood" <damien@dcpendleton.plus.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2018 3:12 PM
Subject: [nvda] Email clients


Hi there,

Ten minutes in the life of seemingly old fashioned Damien, using Windows 7
and Windows Live Mail:
* Check emails.
* Install Dropbox.
* Realise that it’s turned into a pile of sludgy sluggish inaccessible mess.
* Uninstall Dropbox.
* Attempt to check emails.
* Receive a message that WLDCore.dll is missing.
So in that ten minutes, the only significant thing was to install and
uninstall Dropbox, leading me to think that Dropbox somehow corrupted it.
I'll save that rant for my rants folder.
I then nonchalantly uninstall, and launch the Windows Live Essentials
installer expecting to be able to repair it. Of course, it doesn’t budge.
Only then, do I find out that WLM has been discontinued, seemingly with
nothing to replace it for Windows 7 users. Another rant for my rants folder.

I wouldn’t be particularly bothered. I wouldn't say that WLM is the best
client I've ever used. In fact, every client I've used up to now could do
with some accessibility tips. Even so, despite its shortcomings, WLM was the
next best thing to OE and so I’ve been using that for the past four or five
years.
This puts me in a real dilemma. I’m only able to write this email now,
thanks to System Restore (A feature I swore I would never use thanks to its
abilities to mess things up). As a result, I highly feel that I need to get
a replacement client, hopefully something a little less sporadic in its
development and life/support cycles. However, I can’t find a basic,
accessible client that:
1. Is free of unnecessary outright bloated clutter,
2. Is fully accessible, responsive and comprehensible, and
3. Is able to import WLM folders and messages.

Here are the three that I have heard apparently work well, and my
experiences:

1. OEClassic
Since I liked Outlook Express, and since I have heard a lot about OEClassic
on this list, I thought it would make sense to first try that one. However I
was disappointed. When tabbing through the main window, I had no idea what
was what (the controls seemed to be unlabelled or labelled incorrectly), and
some even said “Unknown”. And that’s even before I touched any settings.

2. Pegasus
While Pegasus was the first email client I was ever introduced to, that was
nearly 20 years ago, and using a different screen reader. Similar to
OEClassic, I found several “Unknown” controls, not to mention the old
rich-text-based help system used in the Windows 98 days.

3. Thunderbird
Thunderbird was the only option of the three to allow me to set up a mailbox
before use, and even that was a nightmare, simply because it was determined
to persuade me to use encrypted channels. Also, while it does seem to be the
most accessible of the three in terms of navigation, it also seems full of
unnecessary clutter (different tabs, toolbars, calendars and news feeds,
half of which I’ll never use). Also can’t get my head around the fact that
its window makes heavy use of HTML – I’m used to seeing a good old listbox,
pressing enter on a message, and reading it.

Finally, WLM seems to be absent from import options of all three. I see
frequent mention of Outlook Express, Outlook, Windows Mail,
Thunderbird...But not Windows Live.
At this point, I've no idea what my next step is.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers.
Damien.


Re: Lenovo computers wunning Win10 and NVDA

Ervin, Glenn
 

There are a couple of talking WinPE ISO files out there that you can use for installing Windows.

WinPE is Windows Pre-install Environment, which is the environment you enter while installing Windows from the DVD.

Microsoft has made WinPE available to all for a long time, but only recently has it been set up with audio drivers to load either NVDA with Eloquence, or NVDA with eSpeak.

Brian Smart made one with Eloquence, and I think that is just briansmart.com

At the office, the other set of WinPE using eSpeak comes from a site that I am blocked from accessing from work, so someone else will have to give that to you.

When you boot up to WinPE, it’s just like you are on someone else’s computer, it has Internet access and usually extra utilities, along with all of Windows tools.

You remove the DVD and put in the Windows install DVD and run it like any other installer and it will be talking.

HTH.

Glenn

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Lisa P Geibel
Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2018 4:51 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Lenovo computers wunning Win10 and NVDA

 

Hi,

Forgive me for this post looking like it does, but I have to do email with my iPhone and I'm not as good with that as I am with the computer. Ours just died tis morning and we're going to try to get a new one as soon as we can. We're currently looking at a Lenovo, but this will be the first computer my husband and I have bought solo and are going to try to set it up with little to no sighted assistance as that would cost more. I know it can and has been done by other blind people, but I don't know if this particular brand has been done. Should this be doable using Narrarator then NVDA or do these computers have some sort of funky screen that must be gotten through by a sighted person like a few years ago with some? It will have Windows 10 on it if that helps any? Thanks for any help and wish us luck. We're thinking of getting it from Best Buy.

Sent from Lisa's iPhone6


On Apr 15, 2018, at 3:20 PM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

On Sun, Apr 15, 2018 at 11:30 am, Gene wrote:

I don't use IMAP so I can't compare.  But without more information, the assumption that everyone should use IMAP shouldn't be made. 

Yes, Gene, it can be made if one is setting up a new account.   There is absolutely no advantage of POP unless you have constant need to access very old e-mail messages and are very frequently not connected to the internet.  And that's whether or not one is using multiple devices or not.   IMAP keeps all messages, and folders you may create for categorizing them, on the e-mail server and I don't know of a single data center that doesn't have far better backup plans than any individual could have.  This also saves the nightmare of having to export and import e-mail messages if one changes computers or adds another computer or mobile device from which one now wishes to access mail.

Even if one is setting up one's existing account, that has been using POP, it's better to set it up as IMAP in the new e-mail client and transfer all of your existing mail over to the server using your current client to do so.  It's all well documented in this article:  https://www.msoutlook.info/question/634

IMAP has come to supplant POP almost entirely, and for good reasons.  I would never suggest setting up a new account as POP because most people these days do want to have the ability to access the same account or accounts from multiple devices and, even if they don't, the convenience of being able to abandon one e-mail client for another and just set up their account in another and everything is "automagically" there.
 
--
Brian  Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1709, Build 16299  (dot level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)

     The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement.  But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.

            Niels Bohr

 

 


Re: Email clients

Ervin, Glenn
 

Yes, some can delete gMail messages with a POP account, I have set it up both ways for folks.

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2018 1:45 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Email clients

 

I should add that if GMail is being used, what I wrote may not apply.  but then, it wouldn't apply to use of a POP account either.  When a new client is used with GMail, all mail in the inbox is downloaded to the new client when POP is used.  I'm not sure if a POP e-mail program can be instructed to remove messages from the GMail inbox. 

 

I was discussing using services such as AT&T, Verizon, and other e-mail services that don't want to save everything as GMail does.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene

Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2018 1:30 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Email clients

 

If you set up a machine with an IMAP account and another e-mail program on that machine or another is already using POP3 and is automatically deleting messages from the server, there will be little or nothing to download in the program using IMAP at the outset because the other program will have been removing messages as that program downloads them.  So you will still have to import messages from your other program if you want them in the new one even if you set up an IMAP account. 

 

Also, for people who don't use more than one device, computer or whatever, to download e-mail, I don't know if IMAP is as convenient.  I don't use IMAP so I can't compare.  But without more information, the assumption that everyone should use IMAP shouldn't be made. 

 

You didn't say everyone should use IMAP, but often in such discussions, that is the impression given by the exchange of messages.  I'm saying that unless this is demonstrated, it shouldn't be assumed by readers.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Brian Vogel

Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2018 10:30 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Email clients

 

Thunderbird has not been, in my experience, slow.  It is also configurable "out the wazoo" so you can eliminate seeing the vast majority of the defaults you don't want to see if you look up how to turn them off.  When I've been installing Thunderbird for my blind and VI clients I do not set up the calendar feature, Lightning, unless they say they actually use an electronic calendar.

Also, if at all possible, when setting up e-mail accounts these days, one should always use IMAP access.  This eliminates the need to import messages entirely when a new e-mail client is set up, since that happens all on its own after the client syncs with the server.  

It's also worth considering using your e-mail provider's webmail interface, too.
--
Brian  Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1709, Build 16299  (dot level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)

     The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement.  But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.

            Niels Bohr

 

 


Re: Email clients

Gene
 

Look in the go menu.  I don't know if the calendar is accessible.
 
Gene

------ Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2018 9:42 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Email clients

Gene,

I have been using Windows Live Mail, the menu version, and I have not found a calendar.

How do I access it?

Thanks.

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2018 10:25 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Email clients

 

Have you tried Windows Live Mail?  It is not bloated to a bothersome extent and it is not slow.  It has features like a calendar but they aren't intrusive and you can use the program and never come across them unless you intentionally look for them. 

 

I haven't used thunderbird enough to know if it is slow in general.  I tried it on a machine that is already an old slow machine and it was annoyingly slow at opening messages but I don't know how it is on a fast machine.  However, you are the second person I've seen complain of slowness in the last number of months so that's a little more evidence for it being slow.  But I don't draw conclusions about performance on just two reports.  Five or ten would be much more conclusive since programs can perform differently on different machines even if the machines provide good results with programs in general.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

 

Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2018 9:58 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Email clients

 

Yeah, I don't like any of the mail clients either. Thunderbird is the best, but it is laggy, extremely laggy, bloated, etc.

 

On Sun, Apr 15, 2018 at 10:40 AM, Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@...> wrote:

Hi Damien,

 

If you use Thunderbird, a lot of the extraneous stuff can be turned off under tools/options.  In addition, NVDA works much better with Thunderbird than does JAWS.  Also, there is an add on for Thunderbird and Firefox for NVDA that allows among other things, the re positioning of columns in Thunderbird.  This is very convenient for those of us who wish to have the Sender's name first rather than the default subject line first in the columns as they are read when you move up/down a list of received messages.

 

 

 

On 4/15/2018 10:12 AM, Damien Garwood wrote:

Hi there,

 

Ten minutes in the life of seemingly old fashioned Damien, using Windows 7 and Windows Live Mail:

* Check emails.

* Install Dropbox.

* Realise that it’s turned into a pile of sludgy sluggish inaccessible mess.

* Uninstall Dropbox.

* Attempt to check emails.

* Receive a message that WLDCore.dll is missing.

So in that ten minutes, the only significant thing was to install and uninstall Dropbox, leading me to think that Dropbox somehow corrupted it. I'll save that rant for my rants folder.

I then nonchalantly uninstall, and launch the Windows Live Essentials installer expecting to be able to repair it. Of course, it doesn’t budge. Only then, do I find out that WLM has been discontinued, seemingly with nothing to replace it for Windows 7 users. Another rant for my rants folder.

 

I wouldn’t be particularly bothered. I wouldn't say that WLM is the best client I've ever used. In fact, every client I've used up to now could do with some accessibility tips. Even so, despite its shortcomings, WLM was the next best thing to OE and so I’ve been using that for the past four or five years.

This puts me in a real dilemma. I’m only able to write this email now, thanks to System Restore (A feature I swore I would never use thanks to its abilities to mess things up). As a result, I highly feel that I need to get a replacement client, hopefully something a little less sporadic in its development and life/support cycles. However, I can’t find a basic, accessible client that:

1. Is free of unnecessary outright bloated clutter,

2. Is fully accessible, responsive and comprehensible, and

3. Is able to import WLM folders and messages.

 

Here are the three that I have heard apparently work well, and my experiences:

 

1. OEClassic

Since I liked Outlook Express, and since I have heard a lot about OEClassic on this list, I thought it would make sense to first try that one. However I was disappointed. When tabbing through the main window, I had no idea what was what (the controls seemed to be unlabelled or labelled incorrectly), and some even said “Unknown”. And that’s even before I touched any settings.

 

2. Pegasus

While Pegasus was the first email client I was ever introduced to, that was nearly 20 years ago, and using a different screen reader. Similar to OEClassic, I found several “Unknown” controls, not to mention the old rich-text-based help system used in the Windows 98 days.

 

3. Thunderbird

Thunderbird was the only option of the three to allow me to set up a mailbox before use, and even that was a nightmare, simply because it was determined to persuade me to use encrypted channels. Also, while it does seem to be the most accessible of the three in terms of navigation, it also seems full of unnecessary clutter (different tabs, toolbars, calendars and news feeds, half of which I’ll never use). Also can’t get my head around the fact that its window makes heavy use of HTML – I’m used to seeing a good old listbox, pressing enter on a message, and reading it.

 

Finally, WLM seems to be absent from import options of all three. I see frequent mention of Outlook Express, Outlook, Windows Mail, Thunderbird...But not Windows Live.

At this point, I've no idea what my next step is.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers.
Damien.

 

-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"

 


Re: Email clients

Ervin, Glenn
 

Gene,

I have been using Windows Live Mail, the menu version, and I have not found a calendar.

How do I access it?

Thanks.

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2018 10:25 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Email clients

 

Have you tried Windows Live Mail?  It is not bloated to a bothersome extent and it is not slow.  It has features like a calendar but they aren't intrusive and you can use the program and never come across them unless you intentionally look for them. 

 

I haven't used thunderbird enough to know if it is slow in general.  I tried it on a machine that is already an old slow machine and it was annoyingly slow at opening messages but I don't know how it is on a fast machine.  However, you are the second person I've seen complain of slowness in the last number of months so that's a little more evidence for it being slow.  But I don't draw conclusions about performance on just two reports.  Five or ten would be much more conclusive since programs can perform differently on different machines even if the machines provide good results with programs in general.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

 

Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2018 9:58 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Email clients

 

Yeah, I don't like any of the mail clients either. Thunderbird is the best, but it is laggy, extremely laggy, bloated, etc.

 

On Sun, Apr 15, 2018 at 10:40 AM, Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@...> wrote:

Hi Damien,

 

If you use Thunderbird, a lot of the extraneous stuff can be turned off under tools/options.  In addition, NVDA works much better with Thunderbird than does JAWS.  Also, there is an add on for Thunderbird and Firefox for NVDA that allows among other things, the re positioning of columns in Thunderbird.  This is very convenient for those of us who wish to have the Sender's name first rather than the default subject line first in the columns as they are read when you move up/down a list of received messages.

 

 

 

On 4/15/2018 10:12 AM, Damien Garwood wrote:

Hi there,

 

Ten minutes in the life of seemingly old fashioned Damien, using Windows 7 and Windows Live Mail:

* Check emails.

* Install Dropbox.

* Realise that it’s turned into a pile of sludgy sluggish inaccessible mess.

* Uninstall Dropbox.

* Attempt to check emails.

* Receive a message that WLDCore.dll is missing.

So in that ten minutes, the only significant thing was to install and uninstall Dropbox, leading me to think that Dropbox somehow corrupted it. I'll save that rant for my rants folder.

I then nonchalantly uninstall, and launch the Windows Live Essentials installer expecting to be able to repair it. Of course, it doesn’t budge. Only then, do I find out that WLM has been discontinued, seemingly with nothing to replace it for Windows 7 users. Another rant for my rants folder.

 

I wouldn’t be particularly bothered. I wouldn't say that WLM is the best client I've ever used. In fact, every client I've used up to now could do with some accessibility tips. Even so, despite its shortcomings, WLM was the next best thing to OE and so I’ve been using that for the past four or five years.

This puts me in a real dilemma. I’m only able to write this email now, thanks to System Restore (A feature I swore I would never use thanks to its abilities to mess things up). As a result, I highly feel that I need to get a replacement client, hopefully something a little less sporadic in its development and life/support cycles. However, I can’t find a basic, accessible client that:

1. Is free of unnecessary outright bloated clutter,

2. Is fully accessible, responsive and comprehensible, and

3. Is able to import WLM folders and messages.

 

Here are the three that I have heard apparently work well, and my experiences:

 

1. OEClassic

Since I liked Outlook Express, and since I have heard a lot about OEClassic on this list, I thought it would make sense to first try that one. However I was disappointed. When tabbing through the main window, I had no idea what was what (the controls seemed to be unlabelled or labelled incorrectly), and some even said “Unknown”. And that’s even before I touched any settings.

 

2. Pegasus

While Pegasus was the first email client I was ever introduced to, that was nearly 20 years ago, and using a different screen reader. Similar to OEClassic, I found several “Unknown” controls, not to mention the old rich-text-based help system used in the Windows 98 days.

 

3. Thunderbird

Thunderbird was the only option of the three to allow me to set up a mailbox before use, and even that was a nightmare, simply because it was determined to persuade me to use encrypted channels. Also, while it does seem to be the most accessible of the three in terms of navigation, it also seems full of unnecessary clutter (different tabs, toolbars, calendars and news feeds, half of which I’ll never use). Also can’t get my head around the fact that its window makes heavy use of HTML – I’m used to seeing a good old listbox, pressing enter on a message, and reading it.

 

Finally, WLM seems to be absent from import options of all three. I see frequent mention of Outlook Express, Outlook, Windows Mail, Thunderbird...But not Windows Live.

At this point, I've no idea what my next step is.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers.
Damien.

 

-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"

 


Re: Special characters in NVDA

Peter Chin
 

Thanks so much.
 

From: JM Casey
Sent: Saturday, March 3, 2018 9:26 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Special characters in NVDA
 

When I wanted to find out if it was still present in Win 10 the day I wrote that message, I hit windows key to open the search box, and typed “character map”, and there it was.

 

I even got the executable name right. Hit windows + r for run, and type “charmap”.

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Peter Chin
Sent: March 2, 2018 2:48 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Special characters in NVDA

 

Please tell us how to get to the character map in Windows.

 

From: JM Casey

Sent: Monday, February 5, 2018 3:33 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Special characters in NVDA

 

I haven’t yet tried this with nVDA running, but the quickest way for me has always been to turn the numlock on, and type the alt-number combination, then turn the numlock off again. This won’t work for everyone. While I admit I can’t remember all the important codes, most of the ones I use are accents you’d find in french, and I do remember those. Windows has a feature called Character Map, which you can use to look up character codes, or paste the characters directly into your document. I haven’t used it since XP, but I just looked, and note that it is still here in Windows 10. However, the interface seems to have changed somewhat. Still, you can search for things if you select the advanced view. Play around with it if you like. You’ll probably have to use object navigation in NVDA.

 

The good news is that once you know the code, you don’t have to muck around with pasting anything. Make a list of the ones you use often, rather as Gene suggested, and before long you’ll remember them and type them quickly and efficiently.

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: February 4, 2018 11:23 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Special characters in NVDA

 

NVDA has no such dialog.  Do you still have JAWS on your machine?  You could create your own list using Notepad and then cut and paste them into documents.  Or you can create these characters using the numpad, but I've almost never done this.  Since NVDA uses the Numpad, I'm not sure if you can do this unless you use the bypass command.  Others may comment.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Ann Byrne

Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2018 9:49 AM

Subject: [nvda] Special characters in NVDA

 

How do I find special characters in NVDA, such as the accented e in résumé?

Thanks,



Re: Special characters in NVDA

Peter Chin
 

Thanks so much.
 

From: Sam Taylor
Sent: Saturday, March 3, 2018 9:23 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Special characters in NVDA
 

Windows R for run dialogue and type Charmap

 

On 2/03/2018 17:47, Peter Chin wrote:
Please tell us how to get to the character map in Windows.
 
From: JM Casey
Sent: Monday, February 5, 2018 3:33 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Special characters in NVDA
 

I haven’t yet tried this with nVDA running, but the quickest way for me has always been to turn the numlock on, and type the alt-number combination, then turn the numlock off again. This won’t work for everyone. While I admit I can’t remember all the important codes, most of the ones I use are accents you’d find in french, and I do remember those. Windows has a feature called Character Map, which you can use to look up character codes, or paste the characters directly into your document. I haven’t used it since XP, but I just looked, and note that it is still here in Windows 10. However, the interface seems to have changed somewhat. Still, you can search for things if you select the advanced view. Play around with it if you like. You’ll probably have to use object navigation in NVDA.

 

The good news is that once you know the code, you don’t have to muck around with pasting anything. Make a list of the ones you use often, rather as Gene suggested, and before long you’ll remember them and type them quickly and efficiently.

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: February 4, 2018 11:23 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Special characters in NVDA

 

NVDA has no such dialog.  Do you still have JAWS on your machine?  You could create your own list using Notepad and then cut and paste them into documents.  Or you can create these characters using the numpad, but I've almost never done this.  Since NVDA uses the Numpad, I'm not sure if you can do this unless you use the bypass command.  Others may comment.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Ann Byrne

Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2018 9:49 AM

Subject: [nvda] Special characters in NVDA

 

How do I find special characters in NVDA, such as the accented e in résumé?

Thanks,




Re: Recommended braille displays for use with NVDA?

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

You would imagine if they do have a proven design, one of the other makers might buy the rights, or maybe the problem is the cost to make it and they were just not recouping the costs fast enough. After all, in the main its only the most well off individual who can afford this luxury. Most of the other sales are through government schemes for working blind people.

If you can afford a display like these, at least you can afford to donate more to the nvda project though. Hides behind sofa as a hail of rotting tomatoes comes over.. :-)

Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jason White via Groups.Io" <jason=jasonjgw.net@groups.io>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2018 10:26 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Recommended braille displays for use with NVDA?


Unfortunately, yes, Baum is in financial difficulty and currently isn't
operating.

I have owned two of their displays over the years, both excellent. It seems
that I'll have to look elsewhere for my next display, though. I've been doing
the research but have not yet made the final decision.

Rui Fontes <rui.fontes@tiflotecnia.com> wrote:
Hello!
Atention, BAUM is closed since begining of 2018 due to bankrupcy...

Rui

Às 20:33 de 17/04/2018, Angela Delicata escreveu:
I have Vario Ultra made by Baum which is a German factory... It is very
god with nvda: it works well.



Il 17/04/2018 18:25, Jason White via Groups.Io ha scritto:
Are there any braille displays that are particularly well supported
by NVDA,
including the BrailleExtender add-on and its assignment of keyboard
functions
to braille display keys?

Are there any braille display vendors who have been especially
cooperative
with the NVDA project?

I wish to take this into account in a personal purchasing decision, among
other factors, so I thought I should ask here.








Re: Dragging and Dropping with NVDA

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Yes some other software has this issue, one used to be one of the cd burning tools.
However that was what i meant by a track of the drag. Often only a nudge is needed to fool it into thinking its being moved.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Vogel" <britechguy@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2018 2:47 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Dragging and Dropping with NVDA


Quentin,

Thanks much for that information. One of the few instances where I've seen a need to use drag and drop via the keyboard is rearranging the displayed column order in Thunderbird. Because I've had so much trouble with this in the past, because I didn't know that a bump of the mouse was required, I've suggested that folks find a sighted assistant since this is generally a one-off activity. At least now I know why I've had the difficulties I've had as I'd certainly not have expected the need for actual mouse use (or the equivalent via Golden Cursor), that's for sure.

--
Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1709, Build 16299 (dot level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)

* * *The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement.* * But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another* * profound truth.*

* ~ * *Niels Bohr*


Re: Dragging and Dropping with NVDA

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

It makes a difference if a new explorer session is in use or a reuse of an existing but not used window I notice.
Cut and paste is the way to go. Also do not be too fast as the actual selected file can lag behind the one you think is selected due to sluggish interface issues.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Vogel" <britechguy@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2018 8:21 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Dragging and Dropping with NVDA


On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 11:07 am, Ralf Kefferpuetz wrote:


Put both windows beside on the screen and it will work as you described
it.
Just for the record, I did have a side-by-side arrangement of two File Explorer windows when I was doing my testing and the method originally described did not work.

--
Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1709, Build 16299 (dot level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)

* * *The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement.* * But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another* * profound truth.*

* ~ * *Niels Bohr*


Re: Dragging and Dropping with NVDA

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Yes but not always going to be possible from the keyboard in my experience you often need to drag the windows about a bit to be able to make this work, which was what I was getting at about not having a trail between the drag and drop points.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
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Please address personal E-mail to:-
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Ralf Kefferpuetz" <ralf.kefferpuetz@elra-consulting.de>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2018 7:07 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Dragging and Dropping with NVDA


The both windows must be visible at the screen. It doesn’t work if you have all windows maximized. It wouldn’t work either if you were sighted using a mouse. Put both windows beside on the screen and it will work as you described it.



Cheers,

Ralf



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Giles Turnbull
Sent: Dienstag, 17. April 2018 15:56
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Dragging and Dropping with NVDA



Hi all,

I'm not sure if what I want to do is possible using NVDA but I thought I'd ask.

I've read the mouse functions section in the 2018.1 user guide and have tried routing the mouse to the current object (NVDA+num pad divide), locking the left mouse button on that object (shift+num pad divide), going to another window and then pressing NVDA+num pad divide to route the mouse pointer to that window, and finally pressing shift+num pad divide to release the locked left mouse button and, fingers crosssed, drop the item into that window ... and nothing seems to be happening.

In the user guide it says: Locks the left mouse button down. Press again to release it. To drag the mouse, press this key to lock the left button down and then move the mouse either physically or use one of the other mouse routing commands.

What I want to do is lock the left button on a file in explorer, drag it onto a Python terminal window and then drop the file on that window. There are no objects in that Python terminal window other than the title and the verticle scroll bar.

Grateful for any advice on whether the sequence of my actions is currect, and whether dropping a file in this way is possible. In other similar cases, such as dropping a file into a WordPress media window for uploading a new file, there is also a browse button and I always use that. Without any means of browsing for the file I want to drop in the terminal window I'm a bit stumped.

Giles


Re: Dragging and Dropping with NVDA

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I've never found a need to drag and drop unless its a completely non standard application where it can be hit and miss. I think the issue is that the software concerned needs to be able to know that you are not exactly dragging at all, ie there is no actual track between the two locations, so it ignores you. If cut and paste is possible its far more reliable.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
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Please address personal E-mail to:-
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Rosemarie Chavarria" <knitqueen2007@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2018 5:18 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Dragging and Dropping with NVDA


Hi, Brian,



I use copy and paste quite a bit and it does work great for me. Thank you for the tip.



Rosemarie







From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2018 8:01 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Dragging and Dropping with NVDA



I just tried what you described and although I'd think it would do as you described it doesn't for me, either.

One thing I did try that seems to work is using copy and paste. Once I have focus on the file I want to drop in the source window I hit the conventional Windows keyboard shortcut CTRL+C to copy it. I then navigate to the target window using ALT+TAB then get myself positioned such that I am ready to drop it where it needs to be dropped then hit Paste, CTRL+V, which effectively drops it there.

Try this and see if it works for you.
--
Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1709, Build 16299 (dot level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)

The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.

~ Niels Bohr