Date   

Re: help, can't get balloon about Win 10 back!

Gene
 

I question this information about the registry, at least in newer versions of Windows and with reasonably fast systems.  for one thing, the registry doesn't just accumulate and keep information.  When you install programs and then uninstall them, using add/remove programs, registry entries are usually left from the program.  I don't know what is available for Windows 10 that is accessible, but there are third party unstallers that will remove the registry entries when you uninstall a program.  Also, I think you would have to install and uninstall a lot more programs than a lot of people do to notice any difference in speed.
 
As far as junk accumulating in other places, why can't this be removed by utilities such as the Windows disk cleanup or some third party utility that may remove more.  I don't know enough to compare if there are any significant differences. 
 
I use computers for years and don't have slower performance.  So I question these sorts of broad, unqualified, generalizations.
 
But that wasn't the question.  The question is how an over the top installation can delete everything.  As far as I know, during a Windows 10 upgrade, you are given a choice if you want to keep programs or not.  I don't know when this choice is offered.  But a lot of people upgrade to Windows 10 and keep their programs.
 
Gene

------ Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2018 11:37 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] help, can't get balloon about Win 10 back!

Hi Jessica,

One problem is that after a while, the registry gets bloated with information that it needs for all the programs installed, and Windows needs to cache the registry for information when it loads a program, and as the registry gets bigger and bigger, it takes longer to find the information, and that is why it slows down.

When you installed Windows 10, it needed to put in a new registry.

The new registry would have pulled in some of the old information so you can still use the old programs.

I learned that Office 2000 does not work on 10, as I had installed it on a friend’s 7 and it works fine on that, but when he had someone do the free upgrade to 10 before the first of the year, we found that his outlook no longer works.

I don’t know if Windows 10 will allow a clean install of Office 2000 though.

I use 2000 at home, and it does all I need it to do, I just installed Microsoft’s compatibility utility which allows me to access new Office files.

Glenn

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Jessica D
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2018 11:30 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] help, can't get balloon about Win 10 back!

 

Hi,

I now have win10, and love it

My pc is very fast now 

But, I still don't understand, how doing an overtop install, can literally delete everything. 

I never told it to do that. 

At least, I never heard "seeing AI" mention it. 

 

 

Thanks,

Jessica

 


On Apr 18, 2018, at 12:08 PM, Ervin, Glenn <glenn.ervin@...> wrote:

Absolutely.

Also, the bit about having to make sure all the programs are available for reinstalling, well this will be the case if someone gets a new computer as well, so no extra draw-backs there, and one will want to save their critical data anyway, if they are getting a new computer, so there again, no more work, just a clean install of the OS is in order.

I put an SSD on one of my computers, and I do enjoy the speedier boot-up, but one thing to keep in mind is that we lose the ability to know via sound if the computer is booting or not when we switch to a solid state drive.

Glenn

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2018 10:37 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] help, can't get balloon about Win 10 back!

 

On Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 08:29 am, Ervin, Glenn wrote:

I have seen many folks get a new computer because their old one is now slow.

Glenn,

            You are entirely correct that a very great many systems become sluggish because of the long collection of garbage in all sorts of locations over time.  This can almost always be cured by doing a completely clean installation of whatever operating system it is that you have been using on that machine.

            This is not, of course, a trivial undertaking since you will need to back up all your user data and also make sure that all programs you routinely use are available for reinstallation either with the original media you got when you bought them or via download.  Then you've got to reconfigure your system settings, upload all that user data, and get all those programs installed again.

             Another thing that can add an awful lot of additional speed to a system is changing out the conventional hard disk drive for a solid state drive.  If the drive on your system is not huge the price of SSDs is dropping enough these days that this is an excellent way of getting a significant additional performance boost as well.
 
--
Brian  Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1709, Build 16299  (dot level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)

     The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement.  But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.

            Niels Bohr

 

 


Re: Problem with Firefox

 

Arnthor,

           In Windows 10, many of the in-browser options for setting them as your default browser don't work, and I suspect that's what's occurred here.  If you wish to set your default browser it is better to do so via Settings, Apps & Features, Default apps pane, Web browser item.  That item should give you a dropdown list that includes all web browsers that are installed on your system and allow you to choose whichever you'd like to have come up when a link needs to be passed to a browser, such as from an e-mail message.

            After setting your default browser to Firefox, get into Firefox and open the main menu, choose the Options item, then choose the Search pane in the dialog that comes up.  Default Search Engine is included there and you'll get a dropdown that allows you to choose it.  I have yet to see Google not listed in the list of search engine options that come standard with Firefox.

--
Brian  Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1709, Build 16299  (dot level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)

     The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement.  But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.

            Niels Bohr

 

 


Problem with Firefox

Arnþór Helgason
 

Last autumn some changes were made which lead to the following situation:

When I open Firefox I am asked if I would like to make it as my favourite browser. If I say yeas Microsot Edge is launched.


I am also entitled to search with Yahoo which is terrible as it doesn't recognise some of the Icelandic characters.


Is there any way out of this?

Now I need to open Google separately instead of having it as my favorite search when opening with Firefox.


Many thanks,


Arnthor


--
Arnþór Helgason,
Vináttusendiherra/Friendship Ambassador
Tjarnarbóli 14,
170 Seltjarnarnesi.
Farsími | Mobile: +354 8973766
arnthor.helgason@simnet.is
arnthor.helgason@gmail.com
http://hljod.blog.is
http://arnthorhelgason.blog.is
http://kim.is
http://arnthorhelgason.blog.is


Re: Google docs and NVDA and Chrome

Dan Beaver
 

Thank you for the info.


I tried using the ctrl+alt+z stroke and it said screen reader support enabled.  However, it still just says "about:".  My wife looked at the screen and it has other info on it but NVDA can't read it.


Any other ideas?  Does the doc have to be formatted in a certain way to make it accessible?


Dan Beaver


On 4/18/2018 12:01 PM, Sylvie Duchateau wrote:

Hello Dan,

Google docs works fine with Chrome and NVDA.

You have to enable screen reader support in pressing ctrl+alt+Z.

Sylvie

Le 18/04/2018 à 17:35, Dan Beaver a écrit :

HI,


I have had a document shared with me but I can't seem to find a way to read it.  I can only hear the first line which says "About:".


Is it possible to access google docs with NVDA and Chrome?


Thanks.


Dan Beaver




Re: Email clients

Ervin, Glenn
 

That is how it works on my Outlook at work.

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of "Marvin Atkins"
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2018 11:39 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Email clients

 

Glen,

 

I use the ribbon version of Windows Live Mail and the calendar is reached by pressing Control and the 2 on the numbers row. Control and the number 1 takes me back to the mail. Control and the number 3 takes me to contacts. You can try your version to see If it works.

 

marvin 

 

From: Ervin, Glenn

Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2018 10:42 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Email clients

 

Gene,

I have been using Windows Live Mail, the menu version, and I have not found a calendar.

How do I access it?

Thanks.

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2018 10:25 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Email clients

 

Have you tried Windows Live Mail?  It is not bloated to a bothersome extent and it is not slow.  It has features like a calendar but they aren't intrusive and you can use the program and never come across them unless you intentionally look for them. 

 

I haven't used thunderbird enough to know if it is slow in general.  I tried it on a machine that is already an old slow machine and it was annoyingly slow at opening messages but I don't know how it is on a fast machine.  However, you are the second person I've seen complain of slowness in the last number of months so that's a little more evidence for it being slow.  But I don't draw conclusions about performance on just two reports.  Five or ten would be much more conclusive since programs can perform differently on different machines even if the machines provide good results with programs in general.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

 

From: Brandon Cross

Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2018 9:58 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Email clients

 

Yeah, I don't like any of the mail clients either. Thunderbird is the best, but it is laggy, extremely laggy, bloated, etc.

 

On Sun, Apr 15, 2018 at 10:40 AM, Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@...> wrote:

Hi Damien,

 

If you use Thunderbird, a lot of the extraneous stuff can be turned off under tools/options.  In addition, NVDA works much better with Thunderbird than does JAWS.  Also, there is an add on for Thunderbird and Firefox for NVDA that allows among other things, the re positioning of columns in Thunderbird.  This is very convenient for those of us who wish to have the Sender's name first rather than the default subject line first in the columns as they are read when you move up/down a list of received messages.

 

 

 

On 4/15/2018 10:12 AM, Damien Garwood wrote:

Hi there,

 

Ten minutes in the life of seemingly old fashioned Damien, using Windows 7 and Windows Live Mail:

* Check emails.

* Install Dropbox.

* Realise that it’s turned into a pile of sludgy sluggish inaccessible mess.

* Uninstall Dropbox.

* Attempt to check emails.

* Receive a message that WLDCore.dll is missing.

So in that ten minutes, the only significant thing was to install and uninstall Dropbox, leading me to think that Dropbox somehow corrupted it. I'll save that rant for my rants folder.

I then nonchalantly uninstall, and launch the Windows Live Essentials installer expecting to be able to repair it. Of course, it doesn’t budge. Only then, do I find out that WLM has been discontinued, seemingly with nothing to replace it for Windows 7 users. Another rant for my rants folder.

 

I wouldn’t be particularly bothered. I wouldn't say that WLM is the best client I've ever used. In fact, every client I've used up to now could do with some accessibility tips. Even so, despite its shortcomings, WLM was the next best thing to OE and so I’ve been using that for the past four or five years.

This puts me in a real dilemma. I’m only able to write this email now, thanks to System Restore (A feature I swore I would never use thanks to its abilities to mess things up). As a result, I highly feel that I need to get a replacement client, hopefully something a little less sporadic in its development and life/support cycles. However, I can’t find a basic, accessible client that:

1. Is free of unnecessary outright bloated clutter,

2. Is fully accessible, responsive and comprehensible, and

3. Is able to import WLM folders and messages.

 

Here are the three that I have heard apparently work well, and my experiences:

 

1. OEClassic

Since I liked Outlook Express, and since I have heard a lot about OEClassic on this list, I thought it would make sense to first try that one. However I was disappointed. When tabbing through the main window, I had no idea what was what (the controls seemed to be unlabelled or labelled incorrectly), and some even said “Unknown”. And that’s even before I touched any settings.

 

2. Pegasus

While Pegasus was the first email client I was ever introduced to, that was nearly 20 years ago, and using a different screen reader. Similar to OEClassic, I found several “Unknown” controls, not to mention the old rich-text-based help system used in the Windows 98 days.

 

3. Thunderbird

Thunderbird was the only option of the three to allow me to set up a mailbox before use, and even that was a nightmare, simply because it was determined to persuade me to use encrypted channels. Also, while it does seem to be the most accessible of the three in terms of navigation, it also seems full of unnecessary clutter (different tabs, toolbars, calendars and news feeds, half of which I’ll never use). Also can’t get my head around the fact that its window makes heavy use of HTML – I’m used to seeing a good old listbox, pressing enter on a message, and reading it.

 

Finally, WLM seems to be absent from import options of all three. I see frequent mention of Outlook Express, Outlook, Windows Mail, Thunderbird...But not Windows Live.

At this point, I've no idea what my next step is.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers.
Damien.

 

-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"

 


Re: Email clients

"Marvin Atkins"
 

Glen,
 
I use the ribbon version of Windows Live Mail and the calendar is reached by pressing Control and the 2 on the numbers row. Control and the number 1 takes me back to the mail. Control and the number 3 takes me to contacts. You can try your version to see If it works.
 
marvin 
 

From: Ervin, Glenn
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2018 10:42 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Email clients
 

Gene,

I have been using Windows Live Mail, the menu version, and I have not found a calendar.

How do I access it?

Thanks.

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2018 10:25 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Email clients

 

Have you tried Windows Live Mail?  It is not bloated to a bothersome extent and it is not slow.  It has features like a calendar but they aren't intrusive and you can use the program and never come across them unless you intentionally look for them. 

 

I haven't used thunderbird enough to know if it is slow in general.  I tried it on a machine that is already an old slow machine and it was annoyingly slow at opening messages but I don't know how it is on a fast machine.  However, you are the second person I've seen complain of slowness in the last number of months so that's a little more evidence for it being slow.  But I don't draw conclusions about performance on just two reports.  Five or ten would be much more conclusive since programs can perform differently on different machines even if the machines provide good results with programs in general.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

 

From: Brandon Cross

Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2018 9:58 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] Email clients

 

Yeah, I don't like any of the mail clients either. Thunderbird is the best, but it is laggy, extremely laggy, bloated, etc.

 

On Sun, Apr 15, 2018 at 10:40 AM, Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@...> wrote:

Hi Damien,

 

If you use Thunderbird, a lot of the extraneous stuff can be turned off under tools/options.  In addition, NVDA works much better with Thunderbird than does JAWS.  Also, there is an add on for Thunderbird and Firefox for NVDA that allows among other things, the re positioning of columns in Thunderbird.  This is very convenient for those of us who wish to have the Sender's name first rather than the default subject line first in the columns as they are read when you move up/down a list of received messages.

 

 

 

On 4/15/2018 10:12 AM, Damien Garwood wrote:

Hi there,

 

Ten minutes in the life of seemingly old fashioned Damien, using Windows 7 and Windows Live Mail:

* Check emails.

* Install Dropbox.

* Realise that it’s turned into a pile of sludgy sluggish inaccessible mess.

* Uninstall Dropbox.

* Attempt to check emails.

* Receive a message that WLDCore.dll is missing.

So in that ten minutes, the only significant thing was to install and uninstall Dropbox, leading me to think that Dropbox somehow corrupted it. I'll save that rant for my rants folder.

I then nonchalantly uninstall, and launch the Windows Live Essentials installer expecting to be able to repair it. Of course, it doesn’t budge. Only then, do I find out that WLM has been discontinued, seemingly with nothing to replace it for Windows 7 users. Another rant for my rants folder.

 

I wouldn’t be particularly bothered. I wouldn't say that WLM is the best client I've ever used. In fact, every client I've used up to now could do with some accessibility tips. Even so, despite its shortcomings, WLM was the next best thing to OE and so I’ve been using that for the past four or five years.

This puts me in a real dilemma. I’m only able to write this email now, thanks to System Restore (A feature I swore I would never use thanks to its abilities to mess things up). As a result, I highly feel that I need to get a replacement client, hopefully something a little less sporadic in its development and life/support cycles. However, I can’t find a basic, accessible client that:

1. Is free of unnecessary outright bloated clutter,

2. Is fully accessible, responsive and comprehensible, and

3. Is able to import WLM folders and messages.

 

Here are the three that I have heard apparently work well, and my experiences:

 

1. OEClassic

Since I liked Outlook Express, and since I have heard a lot about OEClassic on this list, I thought it would make sense to first try that one. However I was disappointed. When tabbing through the main window, I had no idea what was what (the controls seemed to be unlabelled or labelled incorrectly), and some even said “Unknown”. And that’s even before I touched any settings.

 

2. Pegasus

While Pegasus was the first email client I was ever introduced to, that was nearly 20 years ago, and using a different screen reader. Similar to OEClassic, I found several “Unknown” controls, not to mention the old rich-text-based help system used in the Windows 98 days.

 

3. Thunderbird

Thunderbird was the only option of the three to allow me to set up a mailbox before use, and even that was a nightmare, simply because it was determined to persuade me to use encrypted channels. Also, while it does seem to be the most accessible of the three in terms of navigation, it also seems full of unnecessary clutter (different tabs, toolbars, calendars and news feeds, half of which I’ll never use). Also can’t get my head around the fact that its window makes heavy use of HTML – I’m used to seeing a good old listbox, pressing enter on a message, and reading it.

 

Finally, WLM seems to be absent from import options of all three. I see frequent mention of Outlook Express, Outlook, Windows Mail, Thunderbird...But not Windows Live.

At this point, I've no idea what my next step is.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers.
Damien.

 

-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"

 


Re: help, can't get balloon about Win 10 back!

Ervin, Glenn
 

Hi Jessica,

One problem is that after a while, the registry gets bloated with information that it needs for all the programs installed, and Windows needs to cache the registry for information when it loads a program, and as the registry gets bigger and bigger, it takes longer to find the information, and that is why it slows down.

When you installed Windows 10, it needed to put in a new registry.

The new registry would have pulled in some of the old information so you can still use the old programs.

I learned that Office 2000 does not work on 10, as I had installed it on a friend’s 7 and it works fine on that, but when he had someone do the free upgrade to 10 before the first of the year, we found that his outlook no longer works.

I don’t know if Windows 10 will allow a clean install of Office 2000 though.

I use 2000 at home, and it does all I need it to do, I just installed Microsoft’s compatibility utility which allows me to access new Office files.

Glenn

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Jessica D
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2018 11:30 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] help, can't get balloon about Win 10 back!

 

Hi,

I now have win10, and love it

My pc is very fast now 

But, I still don't understand, how doing an overtop install, can literally delete everything. 

I never told it to do that. 

At least, I never heard "seeing AI" mention it. 

 

 

Thanks,

Jessica

 


On Apr 18, 2018, at 12:08 PM, Ervin, Glenn <glenn.ervin@...> wrote:

Absolutely.

Also, the bit about having to make sure all the programs are available for reinstalling, well this will be the case if someone gets a new computer as well, so no extra draw-backs there, and one will want to save their critical data anyway, if they are getting a new computer, so there again, no more work, just a clean install of the OS is in order.

I put an SSD on one of my computers, and I do enjoy the speedier boot-up, but one thing to keep in mind is that we lose the ability to know via sound if the computer is booting or not when we switch to a solid state drive.

Glenn

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2018 10:37 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] help, can't get balloon about Win 10 back!

 

On Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 08:29 am, Ervin, Glenn wrote:

I have seen many folks get a new computer because their old one is now slow.

Glenn,

            You are entirely correct that a very great many systems become sluggish because of the long collection of garbage in all sorts of locations over time.  This can almost always be cured by doing a completely clean installation of whatever operating system it is that you have been using on that machine.

            This is not, of course, a trivial undertaking since you will need to back up all your user data and also make sure that all programs you routinely use are available for reinstallation either with the original media you got when you bought them or via download.  Then you've got to reconfigure your system settings, upload all that user data, and get all those programs installed again.

             Another thing that can add an awful lot of additional speed to a system is changing out the conventional hard disk drive for a solid state drive.  If the drive on your system is not huge the price of SSDs is dropping enough these days that this is an excellent way of getting a significant additional performance boost as well.
 
--
Brian  Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1709, Build 16299  (dot level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)

     The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement.  But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.

            Niels Bohr

 

 


Re: help, can't get balloon about Win 10 back!

Antony Stone
 

So, can you confirm that, starting from a standard licensed Windows 7 system,
you could still upgrade in the past few days to a properly licensed Windows 10
system without having to pay for a new licence?

That would be good to know, if Microsoft really are still doing the free
upgrades, despite the advertised offer ending in 2016...

Thanks,


Antony.

On Wednesday 18 April 2018 at 18:30:20, Jessica D wrote:

Hi,
I now have win10, and love it
My pc is very fast now
But, I still don't understand, how doing an overtop install, can literally
delete everything. I never told it to do that.
At least, I never heard "seeing AI" mention it.



Thanks,
Jessica
--
Anything that improbable is effectively impossible.

- Murray Gell-Mann, Nobel Prizewinner in Physics

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.


Re: help, can't get balloon about Win 10 back!

Jessica D <jldail13@...>
 

Hi,
I now have win10, and love it
My pc is very fast now 
But, I still don't understand, how doing an overtop install, can literally delete everything. 
I never told it to do that. 
At least, I never heard "seeing AI" mention it. 



Thanks,
Jessica


On Apr 18, 2018, at 12:08 PM, Ervin, Glenn <glenn.ervin@...> wrote:

Absolutely.

Also, the bit about having to make sure all the programs are available for reinstalling, well this will be the case if someone gets a new computer as well, so no extra draw-backs there, and one will want to save their critical data anyway, if they are getting a new computer, so there again, no more work, just a clean install of the OS is in order.

I put an SSD on one of my computers, and I do enjoy the speedier boot-up, but one thing to keep in mind is that we lose the ability to know via sound if the computer is booting or not when we switch to a solid state drive.

Glenn

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2018 10:37 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] help, can't get balloon about Win 10 back!

 

On Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 08:29 am, Ervin, Glenn wrote:

I have seen many folks get a new computer because their old one is now slow.

Glenn,

            You are entirely correct that a very great many systems become sluggish because of the long collection of garbage in all sorts of locations over time.  This can almost always be cured by doing a completely clean installation of whatever operating system it is that you have been using on that machine.

            This is not, of course, a trivial undertaking since you will need to back up all your user data and also make sure that all programs you routinely use are available for reinstallation either with the original media you got when you bought them or via download.  Then you've got to reconfigure your system settings, upload all that user data, and get all those programs installed again.

             Another thing that can add an awful lot of additional speed to a system is changing out the conventional hard disk drive for a solid state drive.  If the drive on your system is not huge the price of SSDs is dropping enough these days that this is an excellent way of getting a significant additional performance boost as well.
 
--
Brian  Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1709, Build 16299  (dot level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)

     The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement.  But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.

            Niels Bohr

 

 


Re: Dragging and Dropping with NVDA

 

Thanks again, Ron.  I need to snag this into my "Tips n' Tricks" collection.

--
Brian  Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1709, Build 16299  (dot level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)

     The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement.  But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.

            Niels Bohr

 

 


Re: help, can't get balloon about Win 10 back!

Ervin, Glenn
 

Absolutely.

Also, the bit about having to make sure all the programs are available for reinstalling, well this will be the case if someone gets a new computer as well, so no extra draw-backs there, and one will want to save their critical data anyway, if they are getting a new computer, so there again, no more work, just a clean install of the OS is in order.

I put an SSD on one of my computers, and I do enjoy the speedier boot-up, but one thing to keep in mind is that we lose the ability to know via sound if the computer is booting or not when we switch to a solid state drive.

Glenn

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2018 10:37 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] help, can't get balloon about Win 10 back!

 

On Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 08:29 am, Ervin, Glenn wrote:

I have seen many folks get a new computer because their old one is now slow.

Glenn,

            You are entirely correct that a very great many systems become sluggish because of the long collection of garbage in all sorts of locations over time.  This can almost always be cured by doing a completely clean installation of whatever operating system it is that you have been using on that machine.

            This is not, of course, a trivial undertaking since you will need to back up all your user data and also make sure that all programs you routinely use are available for reinstallation either with the original media you got when you bought them or via download.  Then you've got to reconfigure your system settings, upload all that user data, and get all those programs installed again.

             Another thing that can add an awful lot of additional speed to a system is changing out the conventional hard disk drive for a solid state drive.  If the drive on your system is not huge the price of SSDs is dropping enough these days that this is an excellent way of getting a significant additional performance boost as well.
 
--
Brian  Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1709, Build 16299  (dot level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)

     The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement.  But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.

            Niels Bohr

 

 


Re: Email clients

Ervin, Glenn
 

I have used Thunderbird, but it was a bit much with all the extras, so I went back to Windows Live Mail.
But the eMail to text should work on any eMail program.
Glenn

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Devin Prater
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2018 10:26 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Email clients

You use Thunderbird, right? I’m starting to get back into using Windows more, and besides Thunderbird being a bit sluggish, it is pretty good.

On Apr 18, 2018, at 10:23 AM, Ervin, Glenn <glenn.ervin@nebraska.gov> wrote:

I don't like doing my eMail on a phone, it's a drag.
I even go the other direction, I text people all the time from my computer's eMail program, and they don't even realize it is coming from computer unless they are familiar with my doing that.
You can do that from your eMail by eMailing their 10-gigit-number at
Domain.com Each phone company has a different domain, Verizon has two of them...
@vtext.com and @vzwpix.com
Somewhere I have an entire list of domains for different phone companies and saved it, but they can be found with a web search for them.
Glenn

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2018 4:31 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Email clients

Well I an no doubt
you keep getting called dinosaurs, for not using email on a smart phone, everyone does this now they all say to me, nobody uses email on a computer any more!
To this I say bah humbug, and have been using Outlook Express tweaked version for some years in Windows 7 wi5th no problems. it also gives me access to newsgroups, which surprisingly are still alive out there, and has easy to configure message rules so I can have multiple email lists coming in, each sorted via pop3 to a different folder with no user input plus of course I can have both Imap and pop3 of the same account which lets me see spam folders in some isps emails.
I did try the providers web interfaces and while these can work well, you are at the mercy of web designers who are sadists. By that I mean that you tumble out of bed one day and find the whole user interface has been 'improved' to such an extent you have no idea what to do with it.
I'm just glad that OE is still supported by nvda and works well.
I did not like Live mail as it kept falling over and could not support identities which allows me to effectively keep different parts of my online life apart and not see them till I decide to see that part.

Unfortunately, although the patch works on windows 10, whenever windows does a complete update, it trashes things it does not like including oe, and one has to restore it again, taking up valuable time.
In your issues with Dropbox, I have to say I've had no issues with the latest systems indeed on windows 7, it seems to be faster generally. I do not use it on line only offline though, as if I wanted an on line storage system I'd not be using dropbox as its far too snazzy.


Pandering to the sighted again.

So unfortunately since you now have wlm, you are a bit stuffed as I do not think you can back convert to OE format. What you can do though is find a copy of the stand alone installer and not the stub as they put out latterly.

It was a shame that internet mail and news in 7 was not made accessible as it would have been nice. There is of course Outlook itself, but once again its like buying a combine harvester just cos you want a tractor.

Besides If I had ten pounds for everyone who has had aggro with the 2016 incarnation, I'd be living in style with servants by now.



So rant over, but I basically agree, where are the very easy to use,
non html based simple reliable email and news clients that blind people can use.
Maybe somebody needs to write one.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Damien Garwood" <damien@dcpendleton.plus.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2018 3:12 PM
Subject: [nvda] Email clients


Hi there,

Ten minutes in the life of seemingly old fashioned Damien, using
Windows 7 and Windows Live Mail:
* Check emails.
* Install Dropbox.
* Realise that it’s turned into a pile of sludgy sluggish inaccessible mess.
* Uninstall Dropbox.
* Attempt to check emails.
* Receive a message that WLDCore.dll is missing.
So in that ten minutes, the only significant thing was to install and
uninstall Dropbox, leading me to think that Dropbox somehow corrupted it.
I'll save that rant for my rants folder.
I then nonchalantly uninstall, and launch the Windows Live Essentials
installer expecting to be able to repair it. Of course, it doesn’t budge.
Only then, do I find out that WLM has been discontinued, seemingly
with nothing to replace it for Windows 7 users. Another rant for my rants folder.

I wouldn’t be particularly bothered. I wouldn't say that WLM is the
best client I've ever used. In fact, every client I've used up to now
could do with some accessibility tips. Even so, despite its
shortcomings, WLM was the next best thing to OE and so I’ve been using
that for the past four or five years.
This puts me in a real dilemma. I’m only able to write this email now,
thanks to System Restore (A feature I swore I would never use thanks
to its abilities to mess things up). As a result, I highly feel that I
need to get a replacement client, hopefully something a little less
sporadic in its development and life/support cycles. However, I can’t
find a basic, accessible client that:
1. Is free of unnecessary outright bloated clutter, 2. Is fully
accessible, responsive and comprehensible, and 3. Is able to import
WLM folders and messages.

Here are the three that I have heard apparently work well, and my
experiences:

1. OEClassic
Since I liked Outlook Express, and since I have heard a lot about
OEClassic on this list, I thought it would make sense to first try
that one. However I was disappointed. When tabbing through the main
window, I had no idea what was what (the controls seemed to be
unlabelled or labelled incorrectly), and some even said “Unknown”. And that’s even before I touched any settings.

2. Pegasus
While Pegasus was the first email client I was ever introduced to,
that was nearly 20 years ago, and using a different screen reader.
Similar to OEClassic, I found several “Unknown” controls, not to
mention the old rich-text-based help system used in the Windows 98 days.

3. Thunderbird
Thunderbird was the only option of the three to allow me to set up a
mailbox before use, and even that was a nightmare, simply because it
was determined to persuade me to use encrypted channels. Also, while
it does seem to be the most accessible of the three in terms of
navigation, it also seems full of unnecessary clutter (different tabs,
toolbars, calendars and news feeds, half of which I’ll never use).
Also can’t get my head around the fact that its window makes heavy use
of HTML – I’m used to seeing a good old listbox, pressing enter on a message, and reading it.

Finally, WLM seems to be absent from import options of all three. I
see frequent mention of Outlook Express, Outlook, Windows Mail,
Thunderbird...But not Windows Live.
At this point, I've no idea what my next step is.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers.
Damien.







Re: Google docs and NVDA and Chrome

Sylvie Duchateau
 

Hello Dan,

Google docs works fine with Chrome and NVDA.

You have to enable screen reader support in pressing ctrl+alt+Z.

Sylvie

Le 18/04/2018 à 17:35, Dan Beaver a écrit :

HI,


I have had a document shared with me but I can't seem to find a way to read it.  I can only hear the first line which says "About:".


Is it possible to access google docs with NVDA and Chrome?


Thanks.


Dan Beaver



Re: Dragging and Dropping with NVDA

Ron Canazzi
 

Hi Brian,


A useful add on that is obtained from Thunderbird itself is called Quick Folder key navigation.  This will allow you to use first letter navigation to move from folder to folder when in the tree view of folders.  This restores a key function that blind users liked in the old faithful Outlook Express.


If you are using NVDA, searching for this add on within Thunderbird is quite simple.  Click tools/add ons and tab 3 times to the  edit field.  Then type in quick folder key navigation and wait a few seconds.  Then tab once more to the list of results.  There should only be one.  Then use the right click menu to choose install and follow the prompts.



On 4/18/2018 11:31 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 09:36 pm, Ron Canazzi wrote:
The NVDA add on you want is called Mozilla Apps Enhancements. 
Thanks Ron.   This clears up another bit of confusion as I was not thinking of an NVDA Add-On but of a Thunderbird Add-On, of which there are more than I can count.
 
--
Brian  Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1709, Build 16299  (dot level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)

     The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement.  But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.

            Niels Bohr

 

 


-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


Re: help, can't get balloon about Win 10 back!

 

On Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 08:29 am, Ervin, Glenn wrote:
I have seen many folks get a new computer because their old one is now slow.
Glenn,

            You are entirely correct that a very great many systems become sluggish because of the long collection of garbage in all sorts of locations over time.  This can almost always be cured by doing a completely clean installation of whatever operating system it is that you have been using on that machine.

            This is not, of course, a trivial undertaking since you will need to back up all your user data and also make sure that all programs you routinely use are available for reinstallation either with the original media you got when you bought them or via download.  Then you've got to reconfigure your system settings, upload all that user data, and get all those programs installed again.

             Another thing that can add an awful lot of additional speed to a system is changing out the conventional hard disk drive for a solid state drive.  If the drive on your system is not huge the price of SSDs is dropping enough these days that this is an excellent way of getting a significant additional performance boost as well.
 
--
Brian  Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1709, Build 16299  (dot level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)

     The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement.  But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.

            Niels Bohr

 

 


Google docs and NVDA and Chrome

Dan Beaver
 

HI,


I have had a document shared with me but I can't seem to find a way to read it.  I can only hear the first line which says "About:".


Is it possible to access google docs with NVDA and Chrome?


Thanks.


Dan Beaver


Re: Dragging and Dropping with NVDA

 

On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 09:36 pm, Ron Canazzi wrote:
The NVDA add on you want is called Mozilla Apps Enhancements. 
Thanks Ron.   This clears up another bit of confusion as I was not thinking of an NVDA Add-On but of a Thunderbird Add-On, of which there are more than I can count.
 
--
Brian  Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1709, Build 16299  (dot level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)

     The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement.  But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.

            Niels Bohr

 

 


Re: help, can't get balloon about Win 10 back!

Ervin, Glenn
 

I have seen many folks get a new computer because their old one is now slow.
They forget how fast it was when they first got it.
One can boot up to WinPE or use Linux to copy out the files if Windows does not allow them to copy out certain files from the user's folder.
Or if one is organized and knows where the critical keeper files are, just copy them out, and if one's eMail is on the server, the computer can be restored to a brand-new state and just put the files back.
No need to get a new computer, or new OS.
Glenn

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2018 4:56 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] help, can't get balloon about Win 10 back!

I'd not say 7 is slow. I think we need to know if its always been slow or has slowed, and then discuss why. In my experience when i did dip my toe in the 10 water, a machine which was slow on xp or 7 was equally slow on 10!
Not always of course, but it depends on the reason for the slowness, ie processor throttling lack of ram or hard disc fragmentation. often fitting an ssd in a machine seems to miraculously speed it up!
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jessica D" <jldail13@gmail.com>
To: "NVDA users list" <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Cc: "Jaws user list" <main@jfw.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2018 6:10 PM
Subject: [nvda] help, can't get balloon about Win 10 back!


Hi,
I have a windows 7 laptop, with both Jaws 16, and NVDA 2018.1.1 on it
This morning, when I booted the system, I got a message in the corner of my
screen, which said, "get windows 10" so I clicked it, and supposedly,
reserved my copy.
note: at that time, I wasn't connected to wifi, but apparently it still
worked.
I wish I could get that balloon back, now that I'm connected just to make
sure.
Windows 7 is very slow.

What can I do?
Sorry for cross-posting but I felt that was best, since I have both
screen-readers installed, although, Jaws is unlicensed.

Thanks for any help you can provide.



Thanks,
Jessica


Re: Email clients

 

With regard to Gmail and  POP, if it's been enabled since "Day One" of your account's existence, even if you have not used POP, you have two choices as to how POP will behave if you were to configure an e-mail client program to access the account that way:

  1. Enable POP for all mail (even messages that have already been downloaded)
  2. Enable POP for mail that arrives from now on.
  3. Disable POP   -   this choice, of course, prevents POP access, but it is the third option

All of my Gmail accounts are old enough that POP had still not fallen out of favor when they were set up, which was at least 10 years ago at a minimum.  At the top of the POP section there is a line that reads, "Status: POP is enabled for all mail that has arrived since <account creation date here>."

You are also given a choice about what Gmail should do with it's own copy when a message is accessed using POP via an e-mail client that reads:
                      When messages are accessed with POP, followed by a dropdown box with the following choices:

                                      1. Keep Gmail's copy in the inbox
                                      2. Mark Gmail's copy as read
                                      3. Archive Gmail's copy
                                      4. Delete Gmail's copy

If one plans to access mail from multiple locations on multiple devices using e-mail client programs IMAP is the way to go, and unquestionably.  It keeps things "in sync" across all devices provided that one's filtering is done on the e-mail server side (preferable, as that is performed as the messages arrive) or you have one of your clients that runs 24/7 that applies the filters you set up on the client side to sort messages into your IMAP folders which are seen by all clients.  The second option is far less preferable since if that client that does the sorting goes offline then the sorting itself stops.

I tested all this out via Thunderbird the other day and while it's a simple matter to create IMAP folders from within Thunderbird itself creating the filters in Thunderbird does not cause them to be created on the server side, but only within Thunderbird, so if I were not running that instance of Thunderbird to be the "master sorter" then other clients would be seeing all mail land in the inbox, untouched.  I suspect the same would apply with MS-Outlook, but haven't tested it out yet.

For those using Gmail I wrote a tutorial a couple of years ago on how to create filters and IMAP folders (which Gmail calls labels) under Gmail's web interface with a screen reader: Creating IMAP Labels (Folders) and Filters for Gmail.    Using that method guarantees that the Gmail server will be doing all of the filtering and sorting for you before any one of your e-mail clients, whether ones you're currently using or might set up via IMAP access in the future, will ever gain access to the latest incoming messages.

--
Brian  Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1709, Build 16299  (dot level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)

     The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement.  But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.

            Niels Bohr

 

 


Re: Email clients

Devin Prater
 

You use Thunderbird, right? I’m starting to get back into using Windows more, and besides Thunderbird being a bit sluggish, it is pretty good.

On Apr 18, 2018, at 10:23 AM, Ervin, Glenn <glenn.ervin@nebraska.gov> wrote:

I don't like doing my eMail on a phone, it's a drag.
I even go the other direction, I text people all the time from my computer's eMail program, and they don't even realize it is coming from computer unless they are familiar with my doing that.
You can do that from your eMail by eMailing their 10-gigit-number at Domain.com
Each phone company has a different domain, Verizon has two of them...
@vtext.com and @vzwpix.com
Somewhere I have an entire list of domains for different phone companies and saved it, but they can be found with a web search for them.
Glenn

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2018 4:31 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Email clients

Well I an no doubt
you keep getting called dinosaurs, for not using email on a smart phone, everyone does this now they all say to me, nobody uses email on a computer any more!
To this I say bah humbug, and have been using Outlook Express tweaked version for some years in Windows 7 wi5th no problems. it also gives me access to newsgroups, which surprisingly are still alive out there, and has easy to configure message rules so I can have multiple email lists coming in, each sorted via pop3 to a different folder with no user input plus of course I can have both Imap and pop3 of the same account which lets me see spam folders in some isps emails.
I did try the providers web interfaces and while these can work well, you are at the mercy of web designers who are sadists. By that I mean that you tumble out of bed one day and find the whole user interface has been 'improved' to such an extent you have no idea what to do with it.
I'm just glad that OE is still supported by nvda and works well.
I did not like Live mail as it kept falling over and could not support identities which allows me to effectively keep different parts of my online life apart and not see them till I decide to see that part.

Unfortunately, although the patch works on windows 10, whenever windows does a complete update, it trashes things it does not like including oe, and one has to restore it again, taking up valuable time.
In your issues with Dropbox, I have to say I've had no issues with the latest systems indeed on windows 7, it seems to be faster generally. I do not use it on line only offline though, as if I wanted an on line storage system I'd not be using dropbox as its far too snazzy.


Pandering to the sighted again.

So unfortunately since you now have wlm, you are a bit stuffed as I do not think you can back convert to OE format. What you can do though is find a copy of the stand alone installer and not the stub as they put out latterly.

It was a shame that internet mail and news in 7 was not made accessible as it would have been nice. There is of course Outlook itself, but once again its like buying a combine harvester just cos you want a tractor.

Besides If I had ten pounds for everyone who has had aggro with the 2016 incarnation, I'd be living in style with servants by now.



So rant over, but I basically agree, where are the very easy to use, non
html based simple reliable email and news clients that blind people can use.
Maybe somebody needs to write one.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Damien Garwood" <damien@dcpendleton.plus.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2018 3:12 PM
Subject: [nvda] Email clients


Hi there,

Ten minutes in the life of seemingly old fashioned Damien, using Windows 7
and Windows Live Mail:
* Check emails.
* Install Dropbox.
* Realise that it’s turned into a pile of sludgy sluggish inaccessible mess.
* Uninstall Dropbox.
* Attempt to check emails.
* Receive a message that WLDCore.dll is missing.
So in that ten minutes, the only significant thing was to install and
uninstall Dropbox, leading me to think that Dropbox somehow corrupted it.
I'll save that rant for my rants folder.
I then nonchalantly uninstall, and launch the Windows Live Essentials
installer expecting to be able to repair it. Of course, it doesn’t budge.
Only then, do I find out that WLM has been discontinued, seemingly with
nothing to replace it for Windows 7 users. Another rant for my rants folder.

I wouldn’t be particularly bothered. I wouldn't say that WLM is the best
client I've ever used. In fact, every client I've used up to now could do
with some accessibility tips. Even so, despite its shortcomings, WLM was the
next best thing to OE and so I’ve been using that for the past four or five
years.
This puts me in a real dilemma. I’m only able to write this email now,
thanks to System Restore (A feature I swore I would never use thanks to its
abilities to mess things up). As a result, I highly feel that I need to get
a replacement client, hopefully something a little less sporadic in its
development and life/support cycles. However, I can’t find a basic,
accessible client that:
1. Is free of unnecessary outright bloated clutter,
2. Is fully accessible, responsive and comprehensible, and
3. Is able to import WLM folders and messages.

Here are the three that I have heard apparently work well, and my
experiences:

1. OEClassic
Since I liked Outlook Express, and since I have heard a lot about OEClassic
on this list, I thought it would make sense to first try that one. However I
was disappointed. When tabbing through the main window, I had no idea what
was what (the controls seemed to be unlabelled or labelled incorrectly), and
some even said “Unknown”. And that’s even before I touched any settings.

2. Pegasus
While Pegasus was the first email client I was ever introduced to, that was
nearly 20 years ago, and using a different screen reader. Similar to
OEClassic, I found several “Unknown” controls, not to mention the old
rich-text-based help system used in the Windows 98 days.

3. Thunderbird
Thunderbird was the only option of the three to allow me to set up a mailbox
before use, and even that was a nightmare, simply because it was determined
to persuade me to use encrypted channels. Also, while it does seem to be the
most accessible of the three in terms of navigation, it also seems full of
unnecessary clutter (different tabs, toolbars, calendars and news feeds,
half of which I’ll never use). Also can’t get my head around the fact that
its window makes heavy use of HTML – I’m used to seeing a good old listbox,
pressing enter on a message, and reading it.

Finally, WLM seems to be absent from import options of all three. I see
frequent mention of Outlook Express, Outlook, Windows Mail,
Thunderbird...But not Windows Live.
At this point, I've no idea what my next step is.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers.
Damien.