Re: Blank lines

Brian's Mail list account

Its not in the symbols list. I suspect its got to do with how say all works.
Brian

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Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
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in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "juan gonzalez" <jgonzalezh614@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, May 04, 2018 3:48 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Blank lines

The only indication I need is for NVDA not to speak. Then I would know that there is nothing there. It would be better if NVDA could just bypass blank lines all together and just focus on the content. Of course there are those people who need NVDA to announce "blank" so having a way to turn on and off the feature would be nice. I will look in the dictionary to see if I can find that setting.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, May 4, 2018 9:41 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Blank lines

How would you know if it was a blank line if it did not say so?
This seems to be spoken when you cursor down on a line with just a line feed on it. If you cursor left you do hear line feed, so the decision seems to be in the way you bypass the line feed. I'd have thought this option should perhaps be in punctuation and symbols, but on the other hand it would be better perhaps in the object description dialogue so it could be used by a profile easier?
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "juan gonzalez" <jgonzalezh614@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, May 04, 2018 3:14 PM
Subject: [nvda] Blank lines

Good day all! Is there a way to turn off NVDA announcing blank when
navigating with the arrow keys every time it comes upon a blank line? It
seems to not announce blank lines when doing the read all command which is
what I prefer. I remember back in Window-Eyes day. It came with such a
feature. If NVDA has no such feature where can I request it?

Re: Latest version of Office 2016 seems to have broken NVDA's ability to read the message list

Pranav Lal

Hi Steve,

I am using 2016 Microsoft® Outlook® 2016 MSO (16.0.9327.2006)

And have not experienced this issue. What version of Outlook are you on?

I am on Windows 10  Version 1803 (OS Build 17134.1)

Pranav

Re: MS Word commenting hangs up

Pranav Lal

Hi,

1. What version of Microsoft Word are you using?
2. Try running Microsoft Word in safe mode and see if the problem persists.

Pranav

Re: Long Link Names Make Reading Difficult

its not just for email programs, i did not test any email programs!
because i use gmail interface, but i experience this program in long
links in firefox, no matter in gmail or other websites.

On 5/4/18, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
Are you saying the problem happens with all programs that use browse mode or
are you using Outlook? I don't know a solution. If you are using Outlook,
then I'd suggest trying another e-mail program if the problem is confined to
Outlook. If you can read e-mail as plain text and you don't need to read it
as HTML for most or all e-mail, you can try reading mail as plain text if
you want to use Outlook.

If you aren't using Outlook and this is mainly an e-mail problem, you can
try reading mail as plain text in whatever program you are using.
Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: zahra
Sent: Friday, May 04, 2018 10:48 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Long Link Names Make Reading Difficult

hi gene.
i have this problem too!
in firefox, long links are covered multiple links and i cant
distinguish if it is one link in several links or they are several
links.
as you know i use firefox, when i had jaws, jaws announced long links
in only one line, so i did not have this problem.
i also set
Maximum number of characters on one line 200
as you suggested me in the previous questions, but unfortunately it
only works for me in usual text not in the links!
what should i do to nvda behaves like jaws in this regard?

On 5/4/18, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
It appears that the links aren't being read correctly. They are
evidently
links that should just be read as text as links on web pages are reead.

This sounds like just one more problem related to Outlook, which is the
subject of far more messages I see describing problems than any other
popular Windows e-mail program among blind people.

It may be that the NVDA developers, if theis is a general problem, will
address it. Unless you need Outlook for some reason, it would be a good
idea to try firefox or Windows Live Mail.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Louis Maher
Sent: Friday, May 04, 2018 10:16 AM
To: NVDA Discussion List (nvda@nvda.groups.io)
Subject: [nvda] Long Link Names Make Reading Difficult

Hello,

Lately I have been encountering very long links which make reading
difficult, especially in e-mails. The links span several lines, and are
difficult to arrow past. Also, some of the text is either at the
beginning
or end of these long links and are difficult to separate from the long
links. I am using Outlook 2016.

JAWS seems to be able to confine the links to one line; also, JAWS seems
to
be able to eliminate reading blank lines when there are several blank
lines
between paragraphs.

Are there any NVDA settings which can confine the links to one line and
eliminate reading multiple blank lines in Outlook 2016?

Thanks.

Regards
Louis Maher
Phone: 713-444-7838
E-mail ljmaher03@...

-----Original Message-----
From: BlindMath <blindmath-bounces@...> On Behalf Of Brandon Keith
Biggs via BlindMath
Sent: Friday, May 4, 2018 4:00 AM
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
<blindmath@...>
Cc: Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs@...>
Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Typing Math and Science Quickly and
Understandably

Hello,

That article was very good thank you!

I would like to get an overview of how these different tools for
producing
math output work. Here is what I understand so far, please correct me
where
I'm wrong:

Every single method of producing inclusive math documents requires the
LaTeX
[syntax.](
https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikibooks.org%2Fwiki%2FLaTeX%2FMathematics&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=M6mF7uM0lfS6%2F0AGDTSnKiOH6eohNdBk9Q87qmkG%2BeY%3D&reserved=0)

The only difference is in the editor and compiler.

There are four ways of producing math content on the computer:

F1. (note I couldn't install the 30 day trial to test this out as the
accept
license screen was not accessible) Using Microsoft Word or the editor
with
[Mathtype.](
https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dessci.com%2Fen%2Fproducts%2Fmathtype%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=M0vgsFeq6JmKX%2FakP4HrdQEIIiKbDjhCt0Nyc0NYLMA%3D&reserved=0)
This allows you to have a large symbol list to choose from rather than
needing to type LaTeX, although you can type LaTeX if you wish. This has
more immediate feedback as users are able to read their equations in
MathML
instantly rather than waiting to compile. This allows people to edit math
in
Word which is generally a familiar environment. The downside is the
program
costs around $50 a year and you don't get the powerful abilities such as using BibTX, for writing papers. For math though, this works just fine. So pros are familiar environment in Word, WYSIWYG symbol list and editing, and access to the tools word has, such as spellcheck. Cons are the cost, lack of external tools such as BibTX, and the need for two proprietary applications. 2. Using [pandoc]( https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpandoc.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=HJAQJf7m%2BmPlkNayTPwtyyR1z9JH6WKe7AkQIQ%2Bcxcs%3D&reserved=0) to compile either pure LaTeX or Markdown combined with LaTeX. Pros are the vast number of formats one can export to, the ability to type in both LaTeX and Markdown, completely open source, and access to tools such as BibTX. The cons are the need for one to use the command line, the requirement to type LaTeX math, and the need for one to understand how text editors and file types work. 3. Using [RMarkdown]( https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Frmarkdown.rstudio.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=hxNa6p%2F0hZZtm11eRL7OJx0w%2BOg0nQLGSY5O4Ur%2B9tk%3D&reserved=0) Is basically for programmers to insert output from programs (such as python or R scripts) into a document. That way you don't need to insert screenshots or type the output of the program every time you compile. Other than that it is pandoc. Pros are the ability to call code from your Markdown file, massive number of output file formats, completely open source, and the ability to use tools such as BibTX. Cons are that one needs to use Markdown, the required use of the command line, required use of LaTeX math, and the need to understand editors and file types. 4. Using [MiKTeX]( https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmiktex.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=WGU1%2FjVwaeazi1k%2FXMx0apWAJVHqRfNEz22bD0Kb41I%3D&reserved=0) with either a text editor or an IDE like [TEXnicCenter.]( https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.texniccenter.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=kdVMzPSILszjz0SrIcIkCj48hXInScKcrL6HOMxcDP8%3D&reserved=0) Pros are that everything is integrated so no knowledge of the command line is needed, ability to export in a wide range of formats, and ability to use tools like BibTX. Cons are the configuration options if one wishes to do anything other than the default, the need to type in pure LaTeX, and exclusive to Windows (although there are text editors and IDEs other than TeXnicCenter that can be used on other operating systems). From what I have generally seen, Word is preferred by new users or users who like to use word, pandoc is preferred by users who are intermediate or above and who are not afraid of the command line, RMarkdown is used by programmers and data annalists who run code, and TeXnicCenter is used by people who want a simple plug and play tool for conversion between LaTeX and other formats. They each have their different affordances and should be used accordingly. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fbrandonkeithbiggs.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=ec1B3YlMqkt0xuFNrcj9QMnQmUUjaX%2BWpRuqA74U%2F8E%3D&reserved=0> On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 4:09 PM, Godfrey, Jonathan via BlindMath < blindmath@...> wrote: Hi Brandon, Take out all the backslashes in the example you sent through that aren't part of a mathematical expression. White space does all that is needed for line breaks, indenting etc. in markdown documents. You can't change the cumbersome nature of the LaTeX content for equations, but I suggest using *x* instead of the more common$x$within paragraphs because the font is so similar that it doesn't matter to the sighted audience but the conversion to italics from the stars is not spoken by a screen reader while the conversion to math mode from use of dollars is announced. This suggestion does break the rules for semantic correctness, but the distraction that is caused by the screen reader telling me x was math content can often detract from the overall reading experience of the final document especially in sentences where there are plenty of elements using simple mathematical notation. (You can't do this for super or subscripts so easily, or if the element needs a {} construct for example. One of the major pluses for encouraging my colleagues and anyone else preparing material that might be read by a blind person is that the author does not have to think about accessibility during document preparation. The access is built in so often because markdown forces an author to at least know they didn't add an alt tag for a graphic because they left some brackets empty. They often don't know what they've done (positive or negative) in reality so occasionally, some helpful reminders are required. <smiles> Markdown won't stop people choosing daft text for hyperlinks such as "here" but that's a societal issue not a mathematical one. Compare the simplicity of markdown to the pain to get an alt tag added to a graphic inserted into a LaTeX document. Yes it is possible, but it requires some additional work by the author if the document is to be born accessible or some post hoc editing by a human to build in that access. I can do the former, but as a blind person the latter option is annoying in HTML and impossible if the output file is in pdf. As it happens, I did write up some starting suggestions for markdown documents which are tailored to people using the R variant of markdown. Head to https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fr-re sources.massey.ac.nz%2FRmarkdown%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3 c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C63661021 5333873395&sdata=QQh72p%2Ba6PrSSD3lwvRPIiF8FeQz%2BkqUUQzpV118Aac%3D&re served=0 HTH Jonathan -----Original Message----- From: BlindMath <blindmath-bounces@...> On Behalf Of Brandon Keith Biggs via BlindMath Sent: Friday, 4 May 2018 10:24 a.m. To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics < blindmath@...> Cc: Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs@...> Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Typing Math and Science Quickly and Understandably Hello Jonathan, Do you have something that explains the least cumbersome syntax for Markdown / LaTeX? Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fbran donkeithbiggs.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30f b%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdat a=ec1B3YlMqkt0xuFNrcj9QMnQmUUjaX%2BWpRuqA74U%2F8E%3D&reserved=0> On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 2:11 PM, Godfrey, Jonathan via BlindMath < blindmath@...> wrote: Hello, You are correct that use of LaTeX within a markdown document leads to the same outcome as the workflow you have used in MS Word with MathType. I don't think you should suddenly change workflow for improved access to the mathematical content. There are other reasons why you should get use of pandoc into your toolbox though. I do think Brandon's example is more cumbersome than it needed to be. I use markdown almost daily, and I only ever put a \ to get mathematical content. Forever listening to backslash from any screen reader is annoying, slows me down, and often presents a distraction. This was a leading reason for reducing my use of full-blown LaTeX. I would urge you to make use of the LEAN editor mentioned in this thread to enhance your workflow. The feature of LEAN I use most is the addition of tags to the math content so that you do not need to go backwards and forwards into LaTeX mode to read the content, and you don't have to use the specific combination of tools (screen reader + math player). LEAN offers an alternative and I am not suggesting it as a replacement. Having options is power, because it puts you in control. I do think you need to enhance what you do a little to get the best of what you have now before you embark on all manner of options. I would also suggest to you that the accuracy aspect of your criticism of LaTeX (while true) is also true for practically every tool you will use, and is also true for the scientific content you will be working with. I think your initial message to this thread said you were considering a computer science major; the programming languages you use will have limited flexibility to deal with the human inaccuracies that even the best among us is prone to create. For me, it is the ability to find and correct these inaccuracies that tells me how truly accessible a solution is for me. Markdown is the solution that works best for me today; it is not the only solution I use. My final point is about use of a personal system. I know plenty of blind people who have little shorthand things we write. The problem is that they are individual and can't be shared. The most likely person you will want to share your work with is your future-self. Will you recall the shorthand you use today in ten years' time? Cheers, Jonathan -----Original Message----- From: BlindMath <blindmath-bounces@...> On Behalf Of Bhavya shah via BlindMath Sent: Friday, 4 May 2018 8:05 a.m. To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics < blindmath@...> Cc: Bhavya shah <bhavya.shah125@...> Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Typing Math and Science Quickly and Understandably Hi Brandon, In essence, this method is very similar to how I used to use LaTeX of MathType to generate Math ML content that was visually readible and screen reader firnedly with the help of NVDA and Math Player. However, my only two concerns are that using LaTeX or any other standardized Math code to type would almost invariably mean (1) slightly longer and stricter syntax that would need to be mandatorily followed, and (2) there are several reasons, some of which include lack of customization in pronunciation and excessive pausing, why I found reading Math ML with the help of Math Player and NVDA somewhat cumbersome in my past experiences. If I come to think of it, it is quite certain that at some point in time, either for typing my own Math&Science or for reading my transcribed course material, I will need to deal with Math ML using Math Player and NVDA, so in a day at most, I will be retrying Math ML and sharing some of the more significant concerns and issues I have with interacting with Math ML. Kindly let me know if my present understanding of the method you described that this is just Pandoc instead of MathType and commandline instead of Word for using LaTeX to generate Math ML content is fundamentally incorrect. Thanks. On 5/3/18, Brandon Keith Biggs via BlindMath <blindmath@...> wrote: Hello, Markdown with LaTeX is perfect for you. Here is an example that Lukasz (from this list wrote): ## Parametric Forms *transcriber: system of two equations, each one has an extra information after comma* \$x = t^2 -2t$,$dx = 2t-2$\$y= t+1$, minimum at$t=1$\ *transcriber: end of the system* For window: \$t$from$[-2,4]$,$t$step$= 0.1$\$x$from$[-1,10]$\$y$from$[-1,5]$# something easier$3x + y = 10$\$9 * 5 = 45$\ Fractions \$\frac{1}{2} + \frac{1}{2} = 1$This converts perfectly to MathML using pandoc: https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2F pandoc.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7 C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sda ta=HJAQJf7m%2BmPlkNayTPwtyyR1z9JH6WKe7AkQIQ%2Bcxcs%3D&reserved=0 You install pandoc, open a command line where you have the math content and type: pandoc my_math_file.md --mathml -s -o my_html_output_file.html You can give your professor the html file and they can read it in print just fine. If you have a Braille display, the MathML shows up just fine and it is also read by the screen reader. NVDA requires Math player (see the user guide under reading math content for more info). Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2F brandonkeithbiggs.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d 5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C63661021533 3873395&sdata=ec1B3YlMqkt0xuFNrcj9QMnQmUUjaX%2BWpRuqA74U%2F8E%3D&r eserved=0> On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 11:00 AM, Sean Tikkun via BlindMath < blindmath@...> wrote: Bhavya Shah, I am assembling a team to generate 3D models to assist in learning. The team leaders are a former math teacher fluent in Braille (me) and a Fabrication lab director that teaches Biological and Chemical Sciences at the University level. If you have access to 3D printing I would love to know what you may need. Files are easy to send. If not, perhaps there is a fabrication lab at a university in Mumbai that would be interested in some collaboration? Feel free to reach out. stikkun@.... Sean Tikkun Apple Distinguished Educator class of 2007 On May 01, 2018, at 08:51 PM, Sabra Ewing via BlindMath < blindmath@...> wrote: I typed most of my math using the first method. You might be able to type more quickly if you had a braille keyboard. Also note that you can use parentheses and brackets. The Pearce in equation editor can produce math in a visual format. It is free. The braille note touch can do this as well although it is very expensive. I would definitely say to use a keyboard. Do not type on your phone as I am doing now because it is much slower. Another thing you can do is use copy and paste. You do not have to type everything from scratch. You can copy previous steps to your clipboard, paste them, and then modify them to create your future steps. Like for example, you might write a chemical equation that is not balanced. Paste this equation underneath it so you have two copies of the same equation. Then, take the first step toward balancing that equation and make those changes to your second copy. Now you have your equation and underneath it, you have the modified version with step one completed, so copied the version with step one completed to your clipboard and paste it underneath. Now you have the original equation, and you have two copies of step one. Modified the second copy of step one based on what you plan to do in step two. Continue this method until you have finished the problem. With a braille keyboard, you should be able to type as fast as someone can speak and even faster. If you cannot or a braille keyboard is not an option, you can record what is being said with a phone or other recording device and you can then go back over it. Another thing you can do is request things in electronic format. Mini American professors do not know how to create accessible math when it is really very easy as you described. You do not have to know any markup languages. You can create accessible math just by using your computer keyboard, and in many cases, if you are a computer science student, your math is in the perfect format to just paste right over into your ide. Maybe Indian professors would be better at creating accessible. If not, you might be able to find someone who can do it. This will be especially easy if you can find some funding. I was not lucky in this regard because other than professors, I never found a dedicated person who knew how to produce accessible math. I finally got to a position where I could no longer receive accessible math because I moved on to a four-year university where the professors did not know how to produce it. It is very ironic that when I started out at a two year university, the professors did know how to produce it. I approach programmers, professors, deans, and department head. No one actually knew how including the programmers who produce accessible math every day. I finally had to end up listening to my math on recordings and writing everything down. It was very difficult. If you want to get math in braille, there is software that can do it called Duxberry. Ironically, my university actually had this software, but no one knew how to use it including the people who worked at disability services. Getting it for yourself will not be helpful. If you get this software, you will need someone who can modify the equations for you. If your professor has files that were generated from a markup language, you could try asking for those source files. Even if you do not know the markup language, math is written very similarly when you are programming computers, so you could probably pick up how to read it. Unfortunately, my professors used PDFs that they got from other sources or pictures of hand written documents so I could not do this. People will try to tell you that Matt cannot be produced excessively on the computer. This simply is not true. Every mathematical formula, function, and number known to humankind can be programmed into a computer using a text based programming language. Also, many of these functions and formulas can be put into XL. If you can put these formulas into XL, then you can produce them accessibly in a word document. If someone is trying to tell you that they can't, then just tell them to put it in a spreadsheet, press F2 on the cells, and read the formulas that way. XL is very good because you can use it to organize data, you can use it as a calculator, and you can use it to create tables and graphs. You can put these documents in your dropbox and you can get the pictures of the graphs. You can then import these pictures into the voice app on your phone and you can listen to them. If you are going to listen to pie charts, to make it easier on yourself to read, use the 3-D exploding pie charts. This may sound counterintuitive, but when you listen to them, there is a bit more separation between each piece. I don't know how you would get training to listen to grass. I just automatically was born knowing how to do it. No one ever taught me. I could always listen to graphs very easily and I could never read tactile graphics. There is also a program called math tracks where you can create audio graphs by entering in equations.However, it is really best to have both the equation and the data because what if you created a graph using any equation, and you need to make some changes to the data? Well, you don't have the data, so what are you going to do? You could probably generate the data from the equation in some cases, but that will take forever. I like to listen to a graph and have the spreadsheet in front of me at the same time. There is also a blind chemist named Dr. sapalo. I'm not sure how to spell his name. I have his card somewhere but I just have to find it. I really wish people would start using those barcode Cards where I can scan the contact information into my phone, but I only know one person who uses those. Anyways, You may want to get in touch with him. He has all of these probes. They do all different things. They connect to a computer and they can measure chemical reactions and make graphs and do all this stuff depending on what probe you use. For example, you could use one probe to graph the color changes that occur during an experiment. You could use another probe to track temperature changes like ice melting. I don't really do chemistry, but if I did, I imagine I would want this thing, but I can't remember what it is called. But he is actually a chemistry professor at a university. He is totally blind and he teaches classes and runs labs and does all sorts of things. There are plenty of blind computer scientists, but he struck my interest in particular because I have not heard of mini blind chemists. He also had some good advice for 3-D printing that would work in the United States, but I am not sure if it would work in India. If possible though, you may want to get some 3-D models printed. Another thing is that you want to stay consistent. You want to make sure that you are doing things in the classroom the same way you will do them during testing. In my chemistry class, I did not have access to a lot of 3-D models, but for testing purposes, they made me a 3-D model. This really was not fair because it was made out of a lot of cups and straws. I did not know what it was, and it is not fair to use models for testing purposes that you did not use in the classroom or to use a different method for testing purposes that you did not use in the classroom because this will skew the results. If you use certain accommodations in the classroom, insist on the same accommodations for testing. Sabra Ewing On May 1, 2018, at 5:22 PM, Bhavya shah via BlindMath < blindmath@...> wrote: Dear all, I am Bhavya Shah, a totally blind 16-year-old student from Mumbai, India. Having just completed my tenth grade with the same Mathematics and Science syllabus as my sighted peers in a mainstream school, I intend to take up the Science stream according to the Indian education system for Classes 11 and 12 with the subject combination of Physics+Chemistry+Mathematics, and probably take up something Physics+Chemistry+along the lines of Computer Science for my undergraduate studies after that (although I shouldn’t overly worry about about finalizing that for now, I suppose). Additionally, I shall be enrolling into coaching for a very competitive pan-India engineering entrance examination over the next two years where I will be delving into particularly advanced topics in to the three afore-mentioned subjects. Till Class 10, I managed an overwhelming chunk of Math either orally or mentally, and from what I have been informed, have dealt with relatively very simple organic structures, general numericals and chemical equations which I have been handling mostly via plain text. It has become increasingly clear to me that this makeshift method will be extremely inefficient and consequently infeasible for the kind of syllabus I am transitioning to. Hence, I am looking for different techniques, tools or methods of typing Math and Science that will allow me to be as rapid a Math&Science typist as I am of the English language (at its peak, my fingers have achieved about 100 WPM) so that I can cope with the daily rigor this coaching demands. I need to be able to type mathematical and scientific content accurately and swiftly not necessarily such that it is visually readable by a sighted professor but more so for my own reference, understanding and purposes of review and revision. So far, I am versed only with two options – ASCII Math, where I would just type Math and Science using standard symbols present on any keyboard such as /, *, ^ and so on to denote different things (perhaps (x+2)/x-1)) in chiefly plain text, or type things in LaTeX using MathType ($\frac{x+2}{x-1}$) and employ Math Player and NVDA to read it. From my basic understanding of this and limited past experience with each of these methods, the former sounds much faster and more efficient to me, but I am open to evidence and experiences suggesting otherwise. There are various other Math typing tools I have heard about over the years such as Infty Reader and Lean Math, but have never adequately researched them let alone used them to any extent. Any information or instructional material on these and other potential alternatives you would recommend would be of great help too. I would truly appreciate any assistance on different strategies you may have used to math your sighted counterparts’ speed in terms of writing and solving mathematical and scientific material, questions and problem sets. Thanks. -- Best Regards Bhavya Shah Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons: https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2 Fbhavyashah125.wordpress.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a 3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C63 6610215333873395&sdata=k594wAS4lRAm1M1llFxPaseNm%2Fh5l9rLMCCJiqSY ruA%3D&reserved=0 Contacting Me E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@... 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<https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.blindscience.org%2Fblindmath-gems-home&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=2gI3Dwgnx9uzainRfdQuYq%2FoYHc%2Fyzw7C4I6CJ3nVdg%3D&reserved=0> -- By God, were I given all the seven heavens with all they contain in order that I may disobey God by depriving an ant from the husk of a grain of barley, I would not do it. imam ali -- By God, were I given all the seven heavens with all they contain in order that I may disobey God by depriving an ant from the husk of a grain of barley, I would not do it. imam ali Re: Remote tracking in next David Moore Thanks a lot, Brian! I love the next snapshots! I love testing the very latest and helping people for what is to come! David Moore Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io Sent: Friday, May 4, 2018 4:05 AM To: nvda@groups.io; nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: [nvda] Remote tracking in next Just thought I'd mention that there is, under test in the next branch a system which will send to nvda what synth is in use amongst other data collected when you do an update. Those in Europe will be glad to hear that a way to opt in will be given before the system reaches the Master snaps. I don't think this is really a privacy issue, as its just to monitor what people use the most for feedback on development urgency etc, but given the touchiness of the collection of data recently, its best I think to have it out in the open now. GDPR not withstanding. Brian bglists@... Sent via blueyonder. Please address personal E-mail to:- briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff' in the display name field. Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Windows LO with JAWS V Stuart Foote Blindjourno wrote > Since you all can take code from OO, can't you take basically, all of > their accessibility information and use it in LO? I mean, I stopped > using JAWS years ago, but I heard from other people that JAWS works with > OO? Would that be a lot of work? Taking all of the accessibility > information from OO because OO is very accessible, just not updated or > even nearly as stable. Apache OpenOffice (AOO) uses the same IAccessible2 API, but unlike LibreOffice they left the MSAA/IAccessible API in place, so there is marginal Assistive Technology tool support in AOO with JAWS. And, nothing that LibreOffice would care to implement--thank you. Before its demise WindowsEyes had support for select IA2 based applications--but never LibreOffice or AOO. VFO/Freedom Scientific's refusal to support accessible events instrumented with IA2 API has never made much sense to me personally, but their insistence on Windows applications adopting Microsoft UI Automation (UIA) brands them as a second rate player in the Free and Open Source Software arena. It is not their business model--too bad if you are dependent on them. LibreOffice as an OpenSource and cross platform development project is not obliged to provide proprietary UIA bindings--an extension to "bridge" IA2 to UIA could be developed--but we'll leave that to Freedom Scientific to implement if they choose. We'll concentrate on making the native IA2/ATK & AT-SPI/NSAccessibility bridges function cross platform against LibreOffices internal accessibility modules. For any JAWS user on Windows--LibreOffice is accessible at no cost, simply install NVDA. Alternatively, ORCA on a Linux will do well, but if you need more hand holding for a small fee the Hypra project's U.A.S. "Universally Accessible operating System" is a first rate Linux Debian distribution. Enjoy... Re: MS Word commenting hangs up Gene I'm not sure what the problem is. It may be some sort of buffer problem where a buffer isn't being cleared and, when enough information accumulates, the problem occurs. From your message, it appears you can insert a number of comments before the problem begins reliably. If so, then try inserting a number of comments, the number you can insert before the problem begins, then save the document, close the program, reopen the document in the program, and continue. See if you can insert comments in this way on an ongoing basis without the probem occurring. You can also try something first which would be easier and faster if it works. We don't know what is causing the problem. It may be that unloading NVDA after a number of comments, then running it again, might keep the problem from occurring as well. You can check with someplace like the accessibility service, but I'm skeptical they will know the answer. Gene ----- Original Message ----- Date: Friday, May 4, 2018 at 3:45 PM To: "nvda@nvda.groups.io" <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Subject: [nvda] MS Word commenting hangs up Hi all, I rely on the commenting feature in Word to provide feedback on student papers, and NVDA gets hung up in a loop of some kind when I attempt to edit comments, or at least comments that are several lines long. I’ll be able to insert several comments without a problem, but ultimately I’ll encounter the following symptoms: 1. The dreaded wall of unbreakable silence 2. Extreme sluggishness trying to alt-tab away from Word 3. Or, if it isn’t silent, it’ll be a strange open/close toolbar sound plus NVDA reading the window title bar (the document filename) over and over and over until the user is driven bananas or hell freezes over, whichever comes second. The toolbar sound effect is likewise aan infinite loop. Rebooting Word at least gets back to the known universe, but the same problems will continue. I’m not sure how many people rely on comments to the extent I do, or author/edit comments as lengthy as mine. I’m at my wits end, though, since it’s final exam time. Jaws, meanwhile, randomly goes silent when editing Word documents, comments or no comments, though it copes with the comments payne reliably. Narrator requires 10 seconds to respond to arrow keys in the comments payne. Don’t get me started regarding Voiceover and Word on Mac… Can anyone else reproduce the behaviors noted above and offer an idea of what is going on? Thanks in advance. NVDA 2018.1.1, latest Office 365, Windows 10 (1709). __________________________________ R. Neill Hadder, Ph.D. Senior Lecturer and Internship Coordinator Anthropology Department Texas State University n.hadder@... (512) 245-7961 office: ELA241 Visit the Internship Gallery to see what our students have been up to: http://anthropologyinternships.wp.txstate.edu Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Windows LO with JAWS Since you all can take code from OO, can't you take basically, all of their accessibility information and use it in LO? I mean, I stopped using JAWS years ago, but I heard from other people that JAWS works with OO? Would that be a lot of work? Taking all of the accessibility information from OO because OO is very accessible, just not updated or even nearly as stable. On 5/4/2018 4:18 PM, David Goldfield wrote: This is distressing. Several years ago, JAWS was working reasonably well with LibreOffice, if my memory is correct, but I have also encountered the same problem with more recent versions. As you say, NVDA offers much better support. While NVDA has been my screen reader of choice for nine years I would encourage users of JAWS to contact VFO at support@... to let them know your feelings regarding the lack of support being offered by JAWS for this excellent suite. David Goldfield, Assistive Technology Specialist WWW.David-Goldfield.Com On 5/4/2018 2:59 PM, V Stuart Foote wrote: Bryen Yunashko wrote ... A couple of months ago, I installed LibreOffice and had great difficulty because often when I started up LO, Jaws would stop working and then restart itself. A number of buttons and fields didn't work either. So, I put it aside for a while. This week I decided to try again and asked someone to update the latest LO as the inplace update button wasn't accessible for me. Now, when I start LO, it does not even speak anything. It is completely "hidden." But I know LO is actually running because I will randomly type some text, then press Alt+F4 to close the program and I get a prompt to save or discard my file. But while LO is open, nothing works. No menu button, tabs, arrow keys, nothing. Is this a known problem? Completely normal... LibreOffice implements a native Windows accessibility bridge based on the opensource IAccessible2 API Reference: http://accessibility.linuxfoundation.org/a11yspecs/ia2/docs/html/ Unfortunately for JAWS users Freedom Scientific has never seen fit to implement modular support for IA2, so the short answer is it is known and JAWS willl not work with LibreOffice. You will need to install NVDA as a free and open source Windows backup to JAWS. The screen reader navigation is a bit different--but fidelity of IA2 accessible content is much better. LibreOffice accessible event based support is pretty complete--and its screen review/Graphics API "screen scraping" rounds things out. Available here: https://www.nvaccess.org/ Let us know how you make out. -- Sent from: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Accessibility-f2006038.html Re: MS Word commenting hangs up Jonathan COHN Wow, sounds like you have tried all the bases. I suggest you try the Microsoft Accessibility desk and see if they have any bright ideas. Can you possibly write your comments in notepad and then paste them into the comments section? From: <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Adlevision <neill.hadder@...> Reply-To: "nvda@nvda.groups.io" <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Date: Friday, May 4, 2018 at 3:45 PM To: "nvda@nvda.groups.io" <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Subject: [nvda] MS Word commenting hangs up Hi all, I rely on the commenting feature in Word to provide feedback on student papers, and NVDA gets hung up in a loop of some kind when I attempt to edit comments, or at least comments that are several lines long. I’ll be able to insert several comments without a problem, but ultimately I’ll encounter the following symptoms: 1. The dreaded wall of unbreakable silence 2. Extreme sluggishness trying to alt-tab away from Word 3. Or, if it isn’t silent, it’ll be a strange open/close toolbar sound plus NVDA reading the window title bar (the document filename) over and over and over until the user is driven bananas or hell freezes over, whichever comes second. The toolbar sound effect is likewise aan infinite loop. Rebooting Word at least gets back to the known universe, but the same problems will continue. I’m not sure how many people rely on comments to the extent I do, or author/edit comments as lengthy as mine. I’m at my wits end, though, since it’s final exam time. Jaws, meanwhile, randomly goes silent when editing Word documents, comments or no comments, though it copes with the comments payne reliably. Narrator requires 10 seconds to respond to arrow keys in the comments payne. Don’t get me started regarding Voiceover and Word on Mac… Can anyone else reproduce the behaviors noted above and offer an idea of what is going on? Thanks in advance. NVDA 2018.1.1, latest Office 365, Windows 10 (1709). __________________________________ R. Neill Hadder, Ph.D. Senior Lecturer and Internship Coordinator Anthropology Department Texas State University n.hadder@... (512) 245-7961 office: ELA241 Visit the Internship Gallery to see what our students have been up to: http://anthropologyinternships.wp.txstate.edu MS Word commenting hangs up Adlevision Hi all, I rely on the commenting feature in Word to provide feedback on student papers, and NVDA gets hung up in a loop of some kind when I attempt to edit comments, or at least comments that are several lines long. I’ll be able to insert several comments without a problem, but ultimately I’ll encounter the following symptoms: 1. The dreaded wall of unbreakable silence 2. Extreme sluggishness trying to alt-tab away from Word 3. Or, if it isn’t silent, it’ll be a strange open/close toolbar sound plus NVDA reading the window title bar (the document filename) over and over and over until the user is driven bananas or hell freezes over, whichever comes second. The toolbar sound effect is likewise aan infinite loop. Rebooting Word at least gets back to the known universe, but the same problems will continue. I’m not sure how many people rely on comments to the extent I do, or author/edit comments as lengthy as mine. I’m at my wits end, though, since it’s final exam time. Jaws, meanwhile, randomly goes silent when editing Word documents, comments or no comments, though it copes with the comments payne reliably. Narrator requires 10 seconds to respond to arrow keys in the comments payne. Don’t get me started regarding Voiceover and Word on Mac… Can anyone else reproduce the behaviors noted above and offer an idea of what is going on? Thanks in advance. NVDA 2018.1.1, latest Office 365, Windows 10 (1709). __________________________________ R. Neill Hadder, Ph.D. Senior Lecturer and Internship Coordinator Anthropology Department Texas State University n.hadder@... (512) 245-7961 office: ELA241 Visit the Internship Gallery to see what our students have been up to: http://anthropologyinternships.wp.txstate.edu Re: Long Link Names Make Reading Difficult Gene Are you saying the problem happens with all programs that use browse mode or are you using Outlook? I don't know a solution. If you are using Outlook, then I'd suggest trying another e-mail program if the problem is confined to Outlook. If you can read e-mail as plain text and you don't need to read it as HTML for most or all e-mail, you can try reading mail as plain text if you want to use Outlook. If you aren't using Outlook and this is mainly an e-mail problem, you can try reading mail as plain text in whatever program you are using. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: zahra Sent: Friday, May 04, 2018 10:48 AM Subject: Re: [nvda] Long Link Names Make Reading Difficult hi gene. i have this problem too! in firefox, long links are covered multiple links and i cant distinguish if it is one link in several links or they are several links. as you know i use firefox, when i had jaws, jaws announced long links in only one line, so i did not have this problem. i also set Maximum number of characters on one line 200 as you suggested me in the previous questions, but unfortunately it only works for me in usual text not in the links! what should i do to nvda behaves like jaws in this regard? On 5/4/18, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote: > It appears that the links aren't being read correctly. They are evidently > links that should just be read as text as links on web pages are reead. > > This sounds like just one more problem related to Outlook, which is the > subject of far more messages I see describing problems than any other > popular Windows e-mail program among blind people. > > It may be that the NVDA developers, if theis is a general problem, will > address it. Unless you need Outlook for some reason, it would be a good > idea to try firefox or Windows Live Mail. > > Gene > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Louis Maher > Sent: Friday, May 04, 2018 10:16 AM > To: NVDA Discussion List (nvda@nvda.groups.io) > Subject: [nvda] Long Link Names Make Reading Difficult > > > Hello, > > Lately I have been encountering very long links which make reading > difficult, especially in e-mails. The links span several lines, and are > difficult to arrow past. Also, some of the text is either at the beginning > or end of these long links and are difficult to separate from the long > links. I am using Outlook 2016. > > JAWS seems to be able to confine the links to one line; also, JAWS seems to > be able to eliminate reading blank lines when there are several blank lines > between paragraphs. > > Are there any NVDA settings which can confine the links to one line and > eliminate reading multiple blank lines in Outlook 2016? > > Thanks. > > Regards > Louis Maher > Phone: 713-444-7838 > E-mail ljmaher03@... > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindMath <blindmath-bounces@...> On Behalf Of Brandon Keith > Biggs via BlindMath > Sent: Friday, May 4, 2018 4:00 AM > To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics > <blindmath@...> > Cc: Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs@...> > Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Typing Math and Science Quickly and Understandably > > Hello, > > That article was very good thank you! > > I would like to get an overview of how these different tools for producing > math output work. Here is what I understand so far, please correct me where > I'm wrong: > > > > Every single method of producing inclusive math documents requires the LaTeX > [syntax.]( > https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikibooks.org%2Fwiki%2FLaTeX%2FMathematics&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=M6mF7uM0lfS6%2F0AGDTSnKiOH6eohNdBk9Q87qmkG%2BeY%3D&reserved=0) > > The only difference is in the editor and compiler. > > > > There are four ways of producing math content on the computer: > > F1. (note I couldn't install the 30 day trial to test this out as the accept > license screen was not accessible) Using Microsoft Word or the editor with > [Mathtype.]( > https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dessci.com%2Fen%2Fproducts%2Fmathtype%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=M0vgsFeq6JmKX%2FakP4HrdQEIIiKbDjhCt0Nyc0NYLMA%3D&reserved=0) > This allows you to have a large symbol list to choose from rather than > needing to type LaTeX, although you can type LaTeX if you wish. This has > more immediate feedback as users are able to read their equations in MathML > instantly rather than waiting to compile. This allows people to edit math in > Word which is generally a familiar environment. The downside is the program > costs around$50 a year and you don't get the powerful abilities such as
> using BibTX, for writing papers. For math though, this works just fine. So
> pros are familiar environment in Word, WYSIWYG symbol list and editing, and
> access to the tools word has, such as spellcheck. Cons are the cost, lack of
> external tools such as BibTX, and the need for two proprietary
> applications.
>
>
>
> 2. Using [pandoc](
> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpandoc.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=HJAQJf7m%2BmPlkNayTPwtyyR1z9JH6WKe7AkQIQ%2Bcxcs%3D&reserved=0)
>  to compile either pure LaTeX or Markdown combined with LaTeX. Pros are the
> vast number of formats one can export to, the ability to type in both LaTeX
> and Markdown, completely open source, and access to tools such as BibTX. The
> cons are the need for one to use the command line, the requirement to type
> LaTeX math, and the need for one to understand how text editors and file
> types work.
>
>
>
> 3. Using [RMarkdown](
> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Frmarkdown.rstudio.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=hxNa6p%2F0hZZtm11eRL7OJx0w%2BOg0nQLGSY5O4Ur%2B9tk%3D&reserved=0)
> Is basically for programmers to insert output from programs (such as python
> or R scripts) into a document. That way you don't need to insert screenshots
> or type the output of the program every time you compile. Other than that it
> is pandoc.
> Pros are the ability to call code from your Markdown file, massive number of
> output file formats, completely open source, and the ability to use tools
> such as BibTX. Cons are that one needs to use Markdown, the required use of
> the command line, required use of LaTeX math, and the need to understand
> editors and file types.
>
>
>
> 4. Using [MiKTeX](
> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmiktex.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=WGU1%2FjVwaeazi1k%2FXMx0apWAJVHqRfNEz22bD0Kb41I%3D&reserved=0)
> with either a text editor or an IDE like [TEXnicCenter.](
> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.texniccenter.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=kdVMzPSILszjz0SrIcIkCj48hXInScKcrL6HOMxcDP8%3D&reserved=0)
>
> Pros are that everything is integrated so no knowledge of the command line
> is needed, ability to export in a wide range of formats, and ability to use
> tools like BibTX. Cons are the configuration options if one wishes to do
> anything other than the default, the need to type in pure LaTeX, and
> exclusive to Windows (although there are text editors and IDEs other than
> TeXnicCenter that can be used on other operating systems).
>
>
>
> From what I have generally seen, Word is preferred by new users or users who
> like to use word, pandoc is preferred by users who are intermediate or above
> and who are not afraid of the command line, RMarkdown is used by programmers
> and data annalists who run code, and TeXnicCenter is used by people who want
> a simple plug and play tool for conversion between LaTeX and other formats.
> They each have their different affordances and should be used accordingly.
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Brandon Keith Biggs
> <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fbrandonkeithbiggs.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=ec1B3YlMqkt0xuFNrcj9QMnQmUUjaX%2BWpRuqA74U%2F8E%3D&reserved=0>
>
> On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 4:09 PM, Godfrey, Jonathan via BlindMath <
> blindmath@...> wrote:
>
>> Hi Brandon,
>>
>> Take out all the backslashes in the example you sent through that
>> aren't part of a mathematical expression. White space does all that is
>> needed for line breaks, indenting etc. in markdown documents.
>>
>> You can't change the cumbersome nature of the LaTeX content for
>> equations, but I suggest using *x* instead of the more common $x$
>> within paragraphs because the font is so similar that it doesn't
>> matter to the sighted audience but the conversion to italics from the
>> stars is not spoken by a screen reader while the conversion to math
>> mode from use of dollars is announced. This suggestion does break the
>> rules for semantic correctness, but the distraction that is caused by
>> the screen reader telling me x was math content can often detract from
>> the overall reading experience of the final document especially in
>> sentences where there are plenty of elements using simple mathematical
>> notation. (You can't do this for super or subscripts so easily, or if the
>> element needs a {} construct for example.
>>
>> One of the major pluses for encouraging my colleagues and anyone else
>> preparing material that might be read by a blind person is that the
>> author does not have to think about accessibility during document
>> preparation. The access is built in so often because markdown forces
>> an author to at least know they didn't add an alt tag for a graphic
>> because they left some brackets empty. They often don't know what
>> they've done (positive or
>> negative) in reality so occasionally, some helpful reminders are
>> required.
>> <smiles> Markdown won't stop people choosing daft text for hyperlinks
>> such as "here" but that's a societal issue not a mathematical one.
>>
>> Compare the simplicity of markdown to  the pain to get an alt tag
>> added to a graphic inserted into a LaTeX document. Yes it is possible,
>> but it requires some additional work by the author if the document is
>> to be born accessible or some post  hoc editing by a human to build in
>> that access. I can do the former, but as a blind person the latter
>> option is annoying in HTML and impossible if the output file is in pdf.
>>
>> As it happens, I did write up some starting suggestions for markdown
>> documents which are tailored to people using the R variant of markdown.
>> Head to
>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fr-re
>> sources.massey.ac.nz%2FRmarkdown%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3
>> c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C63661021
>> 5333873395&sdata=QQh72p%2Ba6PrSSD3lwvRPIiF8FeQz%2BkqUUQzpV118Aac%3D&re
>> served=0
>>
>> HTH
>> Jonathan
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: BlindMath <blindmath-bounces@...> On Behalf Of Brandon
>> Keith Biggs via BlindMath
>> Sent: Friday, 4 May 2018 10:24 a.m.
>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics <
>> blindmath@...>
>> Cc: Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs@...>
>> Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Typing Math and Science Quickly and
>> Understandably
>>
>> Hello Jonathan,
>> Do you have something that explains the least cumbersome syntax for
>> Markdown / LaTeX?
>> Thanks,
>>
>>
>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>> <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fbran
>> donkeithbiggs.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30f
>> b%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdat
>> a=ec1B3YlMqkt0xuFNrcj9QMnQmUUjaX%2BWpRuqA74U%2F8E%3D&reserved=0>
>>
>> On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 2:11 PM, Godfrey, Jonathan via BlindMath <
>> blindmath@...> wrote:
>>
>> > Hello,
>> >
>> > You are correct that use of LaTeX within a markdown document leads
>> > to the same outcome as the workflow you have used in MS Word with
>> > MathType. I don't think you should suddenly change workflow for
>> > improved access to the mathematical content. There are other reasons
>> > why you should get use of pandoc into your toolbox though.
>> >
>> > I do think Brandon's example is more cumbersome than it needed to be.
>> > I use markdown almost daily, and I only ever put a \ to get
>> > mathematical content. Forever listening to backslash from any screen
>> > reader is annoying, slows me down, and often presents a distraction.
>> > This was a leading reason for reducing my use of full-blown LaTeX.
>> >
>> > I would urge you to make use of the LEAN editor mentioned in this
>> > thread to enhance your workflow. The feature of LEAN I use most is
>> > the addition of tags to the math content so that you do not need to
>> > go backwards and forwards into LaTeX mode to read the content, and
>> > you don't have to use the specific combination of tools (screen
>> > reader + math player). LEAN offers an alternative and I am not
>> > suggesting it as a replacement. Having options is power, because it puts
>> > you in control.
>> >
>> > I do think you need to enhance what you do a little to get the best
>> > of what you have now before you embark on all manner of options. I
>> > would also suggest to you that the accuracy aspect of your criticism
>> > of LaTeX (while
>> > true) is also true for practically every tool you will use, and is
>> > also true for the scientific content you will be working with. I
>> > think your initial message to this thread said you were considering
>> > a computer science major; the programming languages you use will
>> > have limited flexibility to deal with the human inaccuracies that
>> > even the best among us is prone to create. For me, it is the ability
>> > to find and correct these inaccuracies that tells me how truly
>> > accessible a solution is for me. Markdown is the solution that works
>> > best for me
>> today; it is not the only solution I use.
>> >
>> > My final point is about use of a personal system. I know plenty of
>> > blind people who have little shorthand things we write. The problem
>> > is that they are individual and can't be shared. The most likely
>> > person you will want to share your work with is your future-self.
>> > Will you recall the shorthand you use today in ten years' time?
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> > Jonathan
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: BlindMath <blindmath-bounces@...> On Behalf Of Bhavya
>> > shah via BlindMath
>> > Sent: Friday, 4 May 2018 8:05 a.m.
>> > To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics <
>> > blindmath@...>
>> > Cc: Bhavya shah <bhavya.shah125@...>
>> > Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Typing Math and Science Quickly and
>> > Understandably
>> >
>> > Hi Brandon,
>> >
>> > In essence, this method is very similar to how I used to use LaTeX
>> > of MathType to generate Math ML content that was visually readible
>> > and screen reader firnedly with the help of NVDA and Math Player.
>> > However, my only two concerns are that using LaTeX or any other
>> > standardized Math code to type would almost invariably mean (1)
>> > slightly longer and stricter syntax that would need to be
>> > mandatorily followed, and (2) there are several reasons, some of
>> > which include lack of customization in pronunciation and excessive
>> > pausing, why I found reading Math ML with the help of Math Player
>> > and NVDA somewhat cumbersome in my past experiences. If I come to
>> > think of it, it is quite certain that at some point in time, either
>> > for typing my own Math&Science or for reading my transcribed course
>> > material, I will need to deal with Math ML using Math Player and
>> > NVDA, so in a day at most, I will be retrying Math ML and sharing
>> > some of the more significant concerns and issues I
>> have with interacting with Math ML.
>> >
>> > Kindly let me know if my present understanding of the method you
>> > described that this is just Pandoc instead of MathType and
>> > commandline instead of Word for using LaTeX to generate Math ML
>> > content is
>> fundamentally incorrect.
>> >
>> > Thanks.
>> >
>> > On 5/3/18, Brandon Keith Biggs via BlindMath <blindmath@...>
>> wrote:
>> > > Hello,
>> > > Markdown with LaTeX is perfect for you. Here is an example that
>> > > Lukasz (from this list wrote):
>> > >
>> > > ## Parametric Forms
>> > >
>> > > *transcriber: system of two equations, each one has an extra
>> > > information after comma* \ $x = t^2 -2t$, $dx = 2t-2$ \ $y= t+1$,
>> > > minimum at $t=1$ \
>> > > *transcriber: end of the system*
>> > >
>> > > For window:
>> > > \
>> > > $t$ from $[-2,4]$, $t$ step $= 0.1$ \ $x$ from $[-1,10]$ \ $y$
>> > > from $[-1,5]$
>> > >
>> > > # something easier
>> > >
>> > > $3x + y = 10$
>> > > \
>> > > $9 * 5 = 45$
>> > > \
>> > > Fractions
>> > > \
>> > > $\frac{1}{2} + \frac{1}{2} = 1$
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > This converts perfectly to MathML using pandoc:
>> > > https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2F
>> > > pandoc.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7
>> > > C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sda
>> > > ta=HJAQJf7m%2BmPlkNayTPwtyyR1z9JH6WKe7AkQIQ%2Bcxcs%3D&reserved=0
>> > >
>> > > You install pandoc, open a command line where you have the math
>> > > content and
>> > > type:
>> > >
>> > > pandoc my_math_file.md --mathml -s -o my_html_output_file.html
>> > >
>> > > You can give your professor the html file and they can read it in
>> > > print just fine. If you have a Braille display, the MathML shows
>> > > up just fine and it is also read by the screen reader. NVDA
>> > > requires Math player (see the user guide under reading math
>> > > content for more
>> info).
>> > > Thanks,
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Brandon Keith Biggs
>> > > <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2F
>> > > brandonkeithbiggs.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d
>> > > 5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C63661021533
>> > > 3873395&sdata=ec1B3YlMqkt0xuFNrcj9QMnQmUUjaX%2BWpRuqA74U%2F8E%3D&r
>> > > eserved=0>
>> > >
>> > > On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 11:00 AM, Sean Tikkun via BlindMath <
>> > > blindmath@...> wrote:
>> > >
>> > >> Bhavya Shah,
>> > >>
>> > >>    I am assembling a team to generate 3D models to assist in
>> > >> learning. The team leaders are a former math teacher fluent in
>> > >> Braille (me) and a Fabrication lab director that teaches
>> > >> Biological and Chemical Sciences at the University level. If you
>> > >> have access to 3D printing I would love to know what you may
>> > >> need. Files are easy to send. If not, perhaps there is a
>> > >> fabrication lab at a university in Mumbai that would be interested in
>> > >> some collaboration?
>> > >>    Feel free to reach out. stikkun@....
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> Sean Tikkun
>> > >> Apple Distinguished Educator
>> > >> class of 2007
>> > >>
>> > >> On May 01, 2018, at 08:51 PM, Sabra Ewing via BlindMath <
>> > >> blindmath@...> wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >> I typed most of my math using the first method. You might be able
>> > >> to type more quickly if you had a braille keyboard. Also note
>> > >> that you can use parentheses and brackets. The Pearce in equation
>> > >> editor can produce math in a visual format. It is free. The
>> > >> braille note touch can do this as well although it is very
>> > >> expensive. I would definitely say to use a keyboard.
>> > >> Do
>> > >> not type on your phone as I am doing now because it is much slower.
>> > >> Another
>> > >> thing you can do is use copy and paste. You do not have to type
>> > >> everything from scratch. You can copy previous steps to your
>> > >> clipboard, paste them, and then modify them to create your future
>> > >> steps. Like for example, you might write a chemical equation that
>> > >> is not balanced. Paste this equation underneath it so you have
>> > >> two copies of the same equation. Then, take the first step toward
>> > >> balancing that equation and make those changes to your second copy.
>> > >> Now you have your equation and underneath it, you have the
>> > >> modified version with step one completed, so copied the version
>> > >> with step one completed to your clipboard and paste it
>> > >> underneath. Now you have the original equation, and you have two
>> > >> copies of step one.
>> > >> Modified the second copy of step one based on what you plan to do
>> > >> in
>> step two.
>> > >> Continue this method until you have finished the problem. With a
>> > >> braille keyboard, you should be able to type as fast as someone
>> > >> can speak and even faster. If you cannot or a braille keyboard is
>> > >> not an option, you can record what is being said with a phone or
>> > >> other recording device and you can then go back over it. Another
>> > >> thing you can do is request things in electronic format. Mini
>> > >> American professors do not know how to create accessible math
>> > >> when it is really very easy as you described. You do not have to
>> > >> know any markup languages. You can create accessible math just by
>> > >> using your computer keyboard, and in many cases, if you are a
>> > >> computer science student, your math is in the perfect format to
>> > >> just paste right over into your
>> > ide.
>> > >> Maybe
>> > >> Indian professors would be better at creating accessible. If not,
>> > >> you might be able to find someone who can do it. This will be
>> > >> especially easy if you can find some funding. I was not lucky in
>> > >> this regard because other than professors, I never found a
>> > >> dedicated person who knew how to produce accessible math. I
>> > >> finally got to a position where I could no longer receive
>> > >> accessible math because I moved on to a four-year university
>> > >> where the professors did not know how to produce it. It is very
>> > >> ironic that when I started out at a two year university, the
>> > >> professors did know how to produce it. I approach programmers,
>> > >> professors, deans, and
>> department head.
>> > >> No one actually knew how including the programmers who produce
>> > >> accessible math every day. I finally had to end up listening to
>> > >> my math on recordings and writing everything down. It was very
>> > >> difficult. If you want to get math in braille, there is software
>> > >> that can do it called Duxberry. Ironically, my university
>> > >> actually had this software, but no one knew how to use it
>> > >> including the people who worked at disability services. Getting
>> > >> it for yourself will not be helpful. If you get this software,
>> > >> you will need someone who can modify the equations for you. If
>> > >> your professor has files that were generated from a markup
>> > >> language, you could try asking for those source files. Even if
>> > >> you do not know the markup language, math is written very
>> > >> similarly when you are programming computers, so you could probably
>> > >> pick up how to read it.
>> > >> Unfortunately, my professors used PDFs that they got from other
>> > >> sources or pictures of hand written documents so I could not do
>> > >> this. People will try to tell you that Matt cannot be produced
>> > >> excessively on the computer. This simply is not true. Every
>> > >> mathematical formula, function, and number known to humankind can
>> > >> be programmed into a computer using a text based programming
>> > >> language. Also, many of these functions and formulas can be put
>> > >> into XL. If you can put these formulas into XL, then you can
>> > >> produce them accessibly in a word document. If someone is trying
>> > >> to tell you that they can't, then just tell them to put it in a
>> spreadsheet, press F2 on the cells, and read the formulas that way.
>> > >> XL is very good because you can use it to organize data, you can
>> > >> use it as a calculator, and you can use it to create tables and
>> graphs.
>> > >> You can put these documents in your dropbox and you can get the
>> > >> pictures of the graphs.
>> > >> You can then import these pictures into the voice app on your
>> > >> phone and you can listen to them. If you are going to listen to
>> > >> pie charts, to make it easier on yourself to read, use the 3-D
>> > >> exploding pie charts. This may sound counterintuitive, but when
>> > >> you listen to them, there is a bit more separation between each
>> > >> piece.
>> > >> I don't know how you would get training to listen to grass. I
>> > >> just automatically was born knowing how to do it. No one ever taught
>> > >> me.
>> > >> I could always listen to graphs very easily and I could never
>> > >> read
>> tactile graphics.
>> > >> There is also a program called math tracks where you can create
>> > >> audio graphs by entering in equations.However, it is really best
>> > >> to have both the equation and the data because what if you
>> > >> created a graph using any equation, and you need to make some
>> > >> changes to the
>> data?
>> > >> Well, you don't have the data, so what are you going to do? You
>> > >> could probably generate the data from the equation in some cases,
>> > >> but that will take forever. I like to listen to a graph and have
>> > >> the spreadsheet in front of me at the same time. There is also a
>> > >> blind
>> > chemist named Dr.
>> > >> sapalo. I'm not sure how to spell his name. I have his card
>> > >> somewhere but I just have to find it. I really wish people would
>> > >> start using those barcode Cards where I can scan the contact
>> > >> information into my phone, but I only know one person who uses
>> > >> those. Anyways, You may want to get in touch with him. He has all
>> > >> of these probes. They do all different things. They connect to a
>> > >> computer and they can measure chemical reactions and make graphs
>> > >> and do all this stuff depending on what probe you use. For
>> > >> example, you could use one probe to graph the color changes that
>> > >> occur during
>> an experiment.
>> > >> You could use another probe to track temperature changes like ice
>> > melting.
>> > >> I don't really do chemistry, but if I did, I imagine I would want
>> > >> this thing, but I can't remember what it is called. But he is
>> > >> actually a chemistry professor at a university. He is totally
>> > >> blind and he teaches classes and runs labs and does all sorts of
>> > >> things.
>> > >> There are plenty of blind computer scientists, but he struck my
>> > >> interest in particular because I have not heard of mini blind
>> > >> chemists. He also had some good advice for 3-D printing that
>> > >> would work in the United States, but I am not sure if it would
>> > >> work in India. If possible though, you may want to get some 3-D
>> > >> models printed. Another thing is that you want to stay
>> > >> consistent. You want to make sure that you are doing things in
>> > >> the classroom the same way you will do them during testing. In my
>> > >> chemistry class, I did not have access to a lot of 3-D models,
>> > >> but for testing purposes, they made me a 3-D model.
>> > >> This really was not fair because it was made out of a lot of cups
>> > >> and straws. I did not know what it was, and it is not fair to use
>> > >> models for testing purposes that you did not use in the classroom
>> > >> or to use a different method for testing purposes that you did
>> > >> not use in the classroom because this will skew the results. If
>> > >> you use certain accommodations in the classroom, insist on the
>> > >> same accommodations for testing.
>> > >>
>> > >> Sabra Ewing
>> > >>
>> > >> On May 1, 2018, at 5:22 PM, Bhavya shah via BlindMath <
>> > >> blindmath@...> wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >> Dear all,
>> > >>
>> > >> I am Bhavya Shah, a totally blind 16-year-old student from
>> > >> Mumbai, India. Having just completed my tenth grade with the same
>> > >> Mathematics and Science syllabus as my sighted peers in a
>> > >> mainstream school, I intend to take up the Science stream
>> > >> according to the Indian education system for Classes 11 and 12
>> > >> with the subject combination of
>> > >> Physics+Chemistry+Mathematics, and probably take up something
>> > >> Physics+Chemistry+along
>> > >> the lines of Computer Science for my undergraduate studies after
>> > >> that (although I shouldn’t overly worry about about finalizing
>> > >> that for now, I suppose). Additionally, I shall be enrolling into
>> > >> coaching for a very competitive pan-India engineering entrance
>> > >> examination over the next two years where I will be delving into
>> > >> particularly advanced topics in to the three afore-mentioned
>> > >> subjects.
>> > >>
>> > >> Till Class 10, I managed an overwhelming chunk of Math either
>> > >> orally or mentally, and from what I have been informed, have
>> > >> dealt with relatively very simple organic structures, general
>> > >> numericals and chemical equations which I have been handling
>> > >> mostly via plain
>> text.
>> > >> It has become increasingly clear to me that this makeshift method
>> > >> will be extremely inefficient and consequently infeasible for the
>> > >> kind of syllabus I am transitioning to. Hence, I am looking for
>> > >> different techniques, tools or methods of typing Math and Science
>> > >> that will allow me to be as rapid a Math&Science typist as I am
>> > >> of the English language (at its peak, my fingers have achieved
>> > >> about
>> > >> 100
>> > >> WPM) so that I can cope with the daily rigor this coaching demands.
>> > >> I need to be able to type mathematical and scientific content
>> > >> accurately and swiftly not necessarily such that it is visually
>> > >> readable by a sighted professor but more so for my own reference,
>> > >> understanding and purposes of review and revision.
>> > >>
>> > >> So far, I am versed only with two options – ASCII Math, where I
>> > >> would just type Math and Science using standard symbols present
>> > >> on any keyboard such as /, *, ^ and so on to denote different
>> > >> things (perhaps
>> > >> (x+2)/x-1)) in chiefly plain text, or type things in LaTeX using
>> > >> MathType ($\frac{x+2}{x-1}$) and employ Math Player and NVDA to
>> > >> read it. From my basic understanding of this and limited past
>> > >> experience with each of these methods, the former sounds much
>> > >> faster and more efficient to me, but I am open to evidence and
>> > >> experiences suggesting otherwise. There are various other Math
>> > >> typing tools I have heard about over the years such as Infty
>> > >> Reader and Lean Math, but have never adequately researched them
>> > >> let alone
>> used them to any extent.
>> > >> Any information or instructional material on these and other
>> > >> potential alternatives you would recommend would be of great help
>> > >> too.
>> > >>
>> > >> I would truly appreciate any assistance on different strategies
>> > >> you may have used to math your sighted counterparts’ speed in
>> > >> terms of writing and solving mathematical and scientific
>> > >> material, questions and problem sets.
>> > >>
>> > >> Thanks.
>> > >>
>> > >> --
>> > >> Best Regards
>> > >> Bhavya Shah
>> > >>
>> > >> Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons:
>> > >> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2
>> > >> Fbhavyashah125.wordpress.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a
>> > >> 3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C63
>> > >> 6610215333873395&sdata=k594wAS4lRAm1M1llFxPaseNm%2Fh5l9rLMCCJiqSY
>> > >> ruA%3D&reserved=0
>> > >>
>> > >> Contacting Me
>> > >> E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@...
>> > >> LinkedIn:
>> > >> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2
>> > >> Fwww.linkedin.com%2Fin%2Fbhavyashah125%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1
>> > >> aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C
>> > >> 1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=uJJZGJ9RwXu7UYppKRvu%2B%2FzFiMHl
>> > >> x6azouEDc5rGd%2Bs%3D&reserved=0
>> > >> Twitter: @BhavyaShah125
>> > >> Skype: bhavya.09
>> > >>
>> > >> _______________________________________________
>> > >> BlindMath mailing list
>> > >> BlindMath@...
>> > >> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2F
>> > >> nfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindmath_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C
>> > >> 01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aa
>> > >> aaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=DQVDDrqxxXNWtfLfy5B
>> > >> ahpa3gws7gP%2B0HkB4gHeKxMM%3D&reserved=0
>> > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> > >> for
>> > >> BlindMath:
>> > >> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2F
>> > >> nfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindmath_nfbnet.org%2Fsabra&dat
>> > >> a=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640a
>> > >> fb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=3s1s4pTI0tsq
>> > >> 17jGi3n8C0Amu2YXLk%2FdupeH7gCVN9I%3D&reserved=0
>> > >> 1023%40gmail.com
>> > >> BlindMath Gems can be found at
>> > >> <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2
>> > >> Fwww.blindscience.org%2Fb&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c1730
>> > >> 8d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C63661021
>> > >> 5333873395&sdata=4ThJBC1p8qyXQ%2BleUxbV3f3ahbqkxY7xgJrZS%2FNQViw%
>> > >> 3D&reserved=0
>> > >> lindmath-gems-home>
>> > >>
>> > >> _______________________________________________
>> > >> BlindMath mailing list
>> > >> BlindMath@...
>> > >> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2F
>> > >> nfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindmath_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C
>> > >> 01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aa
>> > >> aaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=DQVDDrqxxXNWtfLfy5B
>> > >> ahpa3gws7gP%2B0HkB4gHeKxMM%3D&reserved=0
>> > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> > >> for
>> > >> BlindMath:
>> > >> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2F
>> > >> nfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindmath_nfbnet.org%2Fjaquis%25
>> > >> 40mac&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e
>> > >> 7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=%2B
>> > >> jsgQIa7YSrEnKYVhGCVV9Wy6QBuWE19JgJ8mDPnlbk%3D&reserved=0
>> > >> .c om BlindMath Gems can be found at
>> > >> <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2
>> > >> Fwww.blindscience.org%2Fb&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c1730
>> > >> 8d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C63661021
>> > >> 5333873395&sdata=4ThJBC1p8qyXQ%2BleUxbV3f3ahbqkxY7xgJrZS%2FNQViw%
>> > >> 3D&reserved=0
>> > >> lindmath-gems-home>
>> > >> _______________________________________________
>> > >> BlindMath mailing list
>> > >> BlindMath@...
>> > >> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2F
>> > >> nfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindmath_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C
>> > >> 01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aa
>> > >> aaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=DQVDDrqxxXNWtfLfy5B
>> > >> ahpa3gws7gP%2B0HkB4gHeKxMM%3D&reserved=0
>> > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> > >> for
>> > >> BlindMath:
>> > >> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2F
>> > >> nfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindmath_nfbnet.org%2Fbrand&dat
>> > >> a=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640a
>> > >> fb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=lGz3v%2FuLN1
>> > >> TyCOulT4I8Ey0uyKk4R%2F14UhXec4OjqGQ%3D&reserved=0
>> > >> onkeithbiggs%40gmail.com
>> > >> BlindMath Gems can be found at
>> > >> <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2
>> > >> Fwww.blindscience.org%2Fb&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c1730
>> > >> 8d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C63661021
>> > >> 5333873395&sdata=4ThJBC1p8qyXQ%2BleUxbV3f3ahbqkxY7xgJrZS%2FNQViw%
>> > >> 3D&reserved=0
>> > >> lindmath-gems-home>
>> > >>
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > BlindMath mailing list
>> > > BlindMath@...
>> > > https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fn
>> > > fbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindmath_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01
>> > > %7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaa
>> > > aaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=DQVDDrqxxXNWtfLfy5Bahpa
>> > > 3gws7gP%2B0HkB4gHeKxMM%3D&reserved=0
>> > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> > > for
>> > > BlindMath:
>> > > https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fn
>> > > fbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindmath_nfbnet.org%2Fbhavya.shah
>> > > 12&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9
>> > > f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=k07nfOBn
>> > > 1BybiBx1z0huGkAC0iOCj6Z5iPz6tjrg4xg%3D&reserved=0
>> > > 5%
>> > > 40gmail.com
>> > > BlindMath Gems can be found at
>> > > <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2F
>> > > www.blindscience.org%2Fblindmath-gems-home&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1
>> > > aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1
>> > > %7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=2gI3Dwgnx9uzainRfdQuYq%2FoYHc%2Fyz
>> > > w7C4I6CJ3nVdg%3D&reserved=0>
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Best Regards
>> > Bhavya Shah
>> >
>> > Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons:
>> > https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fbh
>> > avyashah125.wordpress.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c1730
>> > 8d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C63661021533
>> > 3873395&sdata=k594wAS4lRAm1M1llFxPaseNm%2Fh5l9rLMCCJiqSYruA%3D&reser
>> > ved=0
>> >
>> > Contacting Me
>> > E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@...
>> > LinkedIn:
>> > https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fww
>> > w.linkedin.com%2Fin%2Fbhavyashah125%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3
>> > 447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6
>> > 36610215333873395&sdata=uJJZGJ9RwXu7UYppKRvu%2B%2FzFiMHlx6azouEDc5rG
>> > d%2Bs%3D&reserved=0
>> > Twitter: @BhavyaShah125
>> > Skype: bhavya.09
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > BlindMath mailing list
>> > BlindMath@...
>> > https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfb
>> > net.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindmath_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7C%
>> > 7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaa
>> > a%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=DQVDDrqxxXNWtfLfy5Bahpa3gws7gP%
>> > 2B0HkB4gHeKxMM%3D&reserved=0 To unsubscribe, change your list
>> > options or get your account info for
>> > BlindMath:
>> > https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfb
>> > net.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindmath_nfbnet.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7
>> > C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaa
>> > aaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=O2nvGiDxdCtNzBMwueaF62vPSRlJ%
>> > 2FWhwZgXUEDV5X%2BI%3D&reserved=0
>> > a.j.godfrey%40massey.ac.nz
>> > BlindMath Gems can be found at
>> > <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fww
>> > w.blindscience.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e
>> > 30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395
>> > &sdata=qUEYw07%2FQN4%2FnKI%2FtveD8D8rjZBKeEf18wyiCl1EIg4%3D&reserved
>> > =0
>> > blindmath-gems-home>
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > BlindMath mailing list
>> > BlindMath@...
>> > https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfb
>> > net.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindmath_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7C%
>> > 7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaa
>> > a%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=DQVDDrqxxXNWtfLfy5Bahpa3gws7gP%
>> > 2B0HkB4gHeKxMM%3D&reserved=0 To unsubscribe, change your list
>> > options or get your account info for
>> > BlindMath:
>> > https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfb
>> > net.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindmath_nfbnet.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7
>> > C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaa
>> > aaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=O2nvGiDxdCtNzBMwueaF62vPSRlJ%
>> > 2FWhwZgXUEDV5X%2BI%3D&reserved=0
>> > brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com
>> > BlindMath Gems can be found at
>> > <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fww
>> > w.blindscience.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e
>> > 30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395
>> > &sdata=qUEYw07%2FQN4%2FnKI%2FtveD8D8rjZBKeEf18wyiCl1EIg4%3D&reserved
>> > =0
>> > blindmath-gems-home>
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindMath mailing list
>> BlindMath@...
>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbne
>> t.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindmath_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0
>> ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%
>> 7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=DQVDDrqxxXNWtfLfy5Bahpa3gws7gP%2B0HkB4g
>> HeKxMM%3D&reserved=0 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get
>> your account info for
>> BlindMath:
>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbne
>> t.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindmath_nfbnet.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C
>> b0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C
>> 1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=O2nvGiDxdCtNzBMwueaF62vPSRlJ%2FWhwZgX
>> UEDV5X%2BI%3D&reserved=0
>> a.j.godfrey%40massey.ac.nz
>> BlindMath Gems can be found at
>> <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.
>> blindscience.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb
>> %7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata
>> =qUEYw07%2FQN4%2FnKI%2FtveD8D8rjZBKeEf18wyiCl1EIg4%3D&reserved=0
>> blindmath-gems-home>
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindMath mailing list
>> BlindMath@...
>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbne
>> t.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindmath_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0
>> ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%
>> 7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=DQVDDrqxxXNWtfLfy5Bahpa3gws7gP%2B0HkB4g
>> HeKxMM%3D&reserved=0 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get
>> your account info for
>> BlindMath:
>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbne
>> t.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindmath_nfbnet.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C
>> b0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C
>> 1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=O2nvGiDxdCtNzBMwueaF62vPSRlJ%2FWhwZgX
>> UEDV5X%2BI%3D&reserved=0
>> brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com
>> BlindMath Gems can be found at
>> <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.
>> blindscience.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb
>> %7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata
>> =qUEYw07%2FQN4%2FnKI%2FtveD8D8rjZBKeEf18wyiCl1EIg4%3D&reserved=0
>> blindmath-gems-home>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> BlindMath mailing list
> BlindMath@...
> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindmath_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=DQVDDrqxxXNWtfLfy5Bahpa3gws7gP%2B0HkB4gHeKxMM%3D&reserved=0
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindMath:
> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindmath_nfbnet.org%2Fljmaher03%2540outlook.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=50Uy5DX8lrjihy%2BFRb%2B6P6pXz4oHyuo0CXu%2BYEmHoG8%3D&reserved=0
> BlindMath Gems can be found at
> <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.blindscience.org%2Fblindmath-gems-home&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=2gI3Dwgnx9uzainRfdQuYq%2FoYHc%2Fyzw7C4I6CJ3nVdg%3D&reserved=0>
>
>
>
>

--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali

Re: Problem with Eloquence for windows

Sky Mundell

Ah. So you can get the updated version from codefactory? I just did that.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
Sent: Friday, May 04, 2018 6:55 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problem with Eloquence for windows

Hi,

There is an updated version, which you can download from your dealer, which will avoid this problem in the future.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Alex Kenny
Sent: 02 May 2018 19:45
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problem with Eloquence for windows

This problem is not caused by Microsoft, but rather the Eloquence licensing system. The software appears to tie the license to the specific version of windows being used and invalidates the license when that version changes.

On May 2, 2018, at 1:32 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists@...> wrote:

Yes this is not the only bit of software broken by the latest windows version I'm hearing. One might have thought Microsoft would have preserved keys and reinstalled them after the update.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Rui Fontes"
<rui.fontes@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2018 12:45 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problem with Eloquence for windows

You need to contact with Code Factory to request more keys...

Regards,

Rui Fontes

Às 06:25 de 01/05/2018, Sky Mundell escreveu:
Hello List. Sky here. I have a problem with eloquence for windows. I upgraded to windows spring update, and it went well, but when I restarted, NVDA came up with SAPI 5 version of Eloquence, and it said, please register this product. When I went to activate the product, I was told that all of my licences had been activated. When I hit the deactivate button, I got an error that says that your not connected to the internet, even though I am connected to the internet. What can I do? I have a difficult time with one core, and I am familiar with Eloquence because I used it in JAWS and Window-Eyes. Any help you could give me would be appreciated! Thanks, Sky.

Re: Windows 10: where do I find updates?

Annette Moore

I'm not as familiar with the run command, but everything I need is either in search or it's an icon on my desktop. Now, does that sound lazy or what? LOL! I have used the run command some, though, when someone tells me exactly what to type in it, and it works well.

Annette

On 5/3/2018 2:10 PM, JM Casey wrote:

It’s a perfectly fine way of using Windows. I use the search box and the run command with almost equal frequency. I almost never use the menus anymore. My brain has pretty much defaulted to the standard of giving a path/directory structure when someone asks where something is in Windows, which is not necessarily how they think as they often use the menus. The thing is, those can be changed; programs can be moved around in different groups and such without actually changing their locations on the drive, so telling someone where to find a particular application using Windows menus is not necessarily going to be totally useful.

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Annette Moore
Sent: May 3, 2018 2:29 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows 10: where do I find updates?

the search option is my best friend. LOL! I couldn't tell you where a lot of things are in windows 10 and I've had it for nearly a year now, but I do--most of the time--find everything I want with the search option. I probably should learn my way around, but it's just so easy to do a search and find what I want that way. the other day, someone was recommending that I go and look at my privacy settings because that's what she does after doing a major windows update, and I found them by doing the search. I love it, but I can also see where some might not like it as well because when I do the search for, say, Windows update, sometimes I have to keep arrowing and the check for updates option sort of hides on me. I eventually do see it, though.

Annette

On 5/3/2018 11:22 AM, Gene wrote:

I don't know but I hope that method helps you find other things easily.

I don't know which is easier in Windows 10, using methods like that described by the other person or this method.

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2018 11:15 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows 10: where do I find updates?

I tried this method, but it did not seem to work well... So, I decided
to ask and the suggested procedure of using windows key+ i and going to
updates,   worked good.

Thanks anyway for the reply, maybe it was not me being able to make it
work using search in the start menu.

Il 03/05/2018 18:01, Gene ha scritto:
> I don't have Windows 10 but I would think another way would be to use the start menu search to search for Windows updates and, if that doesn't work, something broader like updates.
>
> One of the valuable things about the Windows 7 start menu search and I would think in Windows 10 as well, is that you can search for something such as uninstall programs and find the uninstall option in the results.  So you don't have to know the specific name of what you are looking for, Programs and Features.  The search is designed so that if you search for what you want to do, names are available to the search that show the options such as uninstall a program.
>
> This should, if Windows 10 is organized in the same way, make it much easier to find things without formally knowing the specific Windows name to search for.
>
> Gene
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Holger Fiallo
> Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2018 8:56 AM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows 10: where do I find updates?
>
>
> Window key i. Tab to security and updates, enter and tab to update.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Angela Delicata
> Sent: Thursday, May 3, 2018 8:44 AM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: [nvda] Windows 10: where do I find updates?
>
> Hi,
>
> The question is all in the subject line: i don't seem to be able to find
> them because the location seems to be different from Win 7.
>
> In other words: where are updates located? Where do I have to go in
> order to install them? And is there a way to check for updates
> automatically and have a notification when they are ready?
>
> Thank you so much.
>
> Angela from Italy
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

In process rss feed?

Matt Turner

Hi folks, subject says it all.

I'm trying out the feed reader add-on for nvda, and liking it so far.

Re: Long Link Names Make Reading Difficult

Louis Maher <ljmaher03@...>

Hi Antony,

Outlook makes that decision. I am assuming that if there is any html in a message, then all the message is read as HTML.

Regards
Louis Maher
Phone: 713-444-7838
E-mail ljmaher03@...

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Antony Stone
Sent: Friday, May 4, 2018 11:18 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Long Link Names Make Reading Difficult

How do you read emails which have both HTML and plain text parts?

In my experience this is far more common than emails with HTML only (no plain text part).

Antony.

On Friday 04 May 2018 at 17:14:04, Louis Maher wrote:

Thanks Gene.

I am reading e-mails in the format they are sent in. For example, I
am reading this one in html; although the original mathematical
example I sent was sent at text.

I agree that the links are not being read correctly. I will continue
to work this issue, including looking into other e-mail solutions.

Thanks for your comments.

Regards
Louis Maher
Phone: 713-444-7838
E-mail ljmaher03@...

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Friday, May 4, 2018 10:46 AM
To: Gene <gsasner@...>; nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Long Link Names Make Reading Difficult

Also, are you reading messages as plain text or as HTML? If you read
them as plain text, some links won't read properly.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene<mailto:gsasner@...>
Sent: Friday, May 04, 2018 10:35 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Long Link Names Make Reading Difficult

It appears that the links aren't being read correctly. They are
evidently links that should just be read as text as links on web pages are reead.

This sounds like just one more problem related to Outlook, which is
the subject of far more messages I see describing problems than any
other popular Windows e-mail program among blind people.

It may be that the NVDA developers, if theis is a general problem,
will address it. Unless you need Outlook for some reason, it would be
a good idea to try firefox or Windows Live Mail.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Louis Maher<mailto:ljmaher03@...>
Sent: Friday, May 04, 2018 10:16 AM
To: NVDA Discussion List
(nvda@nvda.groups.io)<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io)>
Subject: [nvda] Long Link Names Make Reading Difficult

Hello,

Lately I have been encountering very long links which make reading
difficult, especially in e-mails. The links span several lines, and
are difficult to arrow past. Also, some of the text is either at the
beginning or end of these long links and are difficult to separate
from the long links. I am using Outlook 2016.

JAWS seems to be able to confine the links to one line; also, JAWS
seems to be able to eliminate reading blank lines when there are
several blank lines between paragraphs.

Are there any NVDA settings which can confine the links to one line
and eliminate reading multiple blank lines in Outlook 2016?

Thanks.

Regards
Louis Maher
Phone: 713-444-7838
E-mail ljmaher03@...<mailto:ljmaher03@...>

-----Original Message-----
From: BlindMath
<blindmath-bounces@...<mailto:blindmath-bounces@...>> On
Behalf Of Brandon Keith Biggs via BlindMath Sent: Friday, May 4, 2018
4:00 AM
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
<blindmath@...<mailto:blindmath@...>> Cc: Brandon Keith
Biggs
<brandonkeithbiggs@...<mailto:brandonkeithbiggs@...>>
Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Typing Math and Science Quickly and
Understandably

Hello,

That article was very good thank you!

I would like to get an overview of how these different tools for
producing math output work. Here is what I understand so far, please
correct me where I'm wrong:

Every single method of producing inclusive math documents requires the
LaTeX [syntax.](
https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.w
ikib
ooks.org%2Fwiki%2FLaTeX%2FMathematics&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447
a3c17
308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C63661021533
38733
95&sdata=M6mF7uM0lfS6%2F0AGDTSnKiOH6eohNdBk9Q87qmkG%2BeY%3D&reserved=0
)

The only difference is in the editor and compiler.

There are four ways of producing math content on the computer:

F1. (note I couldn't install the 30 day trial to test this out as the
accept license screen was not accessible) Using Microsoft Word or the
editor with [Mathtype.](
https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.d
essc
i.com%2Fen%2Fproducts%2Fmathtype%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3
c1730
8d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6366102153338
73395
&sdata=M0vgsFeq6JmKX%2FakP4HrdQEIIiKbDjhCt0Nyc0NYLMA%3D&reserved=0)
This allows you to have a large symbol list to choose from rather than
needing to type LaTeX, although you can type LaTeX if you wish. This
has more immediate feedback as users are able to read their equations
in MathML instantly rather than waiting to compile. This allows people
to edit math in Word which is generally a familiar environment. The
downside is the program costs around $50 a year and you don't get the powerful abilities such as using BibTX, for writing papers. For math though, this works just fine. So pros are familiar environment in Word, WYSIWYG symbol list and editing, and access to the tools word has, such as spellcheck. Cons are the cost, lack of external tools such as BibTX, and the need for two proprietary applications. 2. Using [pandoc]( https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpand oc.o rg%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f 640af b435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=HJAQJf7m%2BmPlkNay TPwty yR1z9JH6WKe7AkQIQ%2Bcxcs%3D&reserved=0) to compile either pure LaTeX or Markdown combined with LaTeX. Pros are the vast number of formats one can export to, the ability to type in both LaTeX and Markdown, completely open source, and access to tools such as BibTX. The cons are the need for one to use the command line, the requirement to type LaTeX math, and the need for one to understand how text editors and file types work. 3. Using [RMarkdown]( https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Frmar kdow n.rstudio.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C 84df9 e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=hxNa6p% 2F0hZ Ztm11eRL7OJx0w%2BOg0nQLGSY5O4Ur%2B9tk%3D&reserved=0) Is basically for programmers to insert output from programs (such as python or R scripts) into a document. That way you don't need to insert screenshots or type the output of the program every time you compile. Other than that it is pandoc. Pros are the ability to call code from your Markdown file, massive number of output file formats, completely open source, and the ability to use tools such as BibTX. Cons are that one needs to use Markdown, the required use of the command line, required use of LaTeX math, and the need to understand editors and file types. 4. Using [MiKTeX]( https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmikt ex.o rg%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f 640af b435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=WGU1%2FjVwaeazi1k% 2FXMx 0apWAJVHqRfNEz22bD0Kb41I%3D&reserved=0) with either a text editor or an IDE like [TEXnicCenter.]( https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.t exni ccenter.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84 df9e7 fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=kdVMzPSIL szjz0 SrIcIkCj48hXInScKcrL6HOMxcDP8%3D&reserved=0) Pros are that everything is integrated so no knowledge of the command line is needed, ability to export in a wide range of formats, and ability to use tools like BibTX. Cons are the configuration options if one wishes to do anything other than the default, the need to type in pure LaTeX, and exclusive to Windows (although there are text editors and IDEs other than TeXnicCenter that can be used on other operating systems). From what I have generally seen, Word is preferred by new users or users who like to use word, pandoc is preferred by users who are intermediate or above and who are not afraid of the command line, RMarkdown is used by programmers and data annalists who run code, and TeXnicCenter is used by people who want a simple plug and play tool for conversion between LaTeX and other formats. They each have their different affordances and should be used accordingly. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fbran donk eithbiggs.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C 84df9 e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=ec1B3Yl Mqkt0 xuFNrcj9QMnQmUUjaX%2BWpRuqA74U%2F8E%3D&reserved=0> On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 4:09 PM, Godfrey, Jonathan via BlindMath < blindmath@...<mailto:blindmath@...>> wrote: Hi Brandon, Take out all the backslashes in the example you sent through that aren't part of a mathematical expression. White space does all that is needed for line breaks, indenting etc. in markdown documents. You can't change the cumbersome nature of the LaTeX content for equations, but I suggest using *x* instead of the more common$x$within paragraphs because the font is so similar that it doesn't matter to the sighted audience but the conversion to italics from the stars is not spoken by a screen reader while the conversion to math mode from use of dollars is announced. This suggestion does break the rules for semantic correctness, but the distraction that is caused by the screen reader telling me x was math content can often detract from the overall reading experience of the final document especially in sentences where there are plenty of elements using simple mathematical notation. (You can't do this for super or subscripts so easily, or if the element needs a {} construct for example. One of the major pluses for encouraging my colleagues and anyone else preparing material that might be read by a blind person is that the author does not have to think about accessibility during document preparation. The access is built in so often because markdown forces an author to at least know they didn't add an alt tag for a graphic because they left some brackets empty. They often don't know what they've done (positive or negative) in reality so occasionally, some helpful reminders are required. <smiles> Markdown won't stop people choosing daft text for hyperlinks such as "here" but that's a societal issue not a mathematical one. Compare the simplicity of markdown to the pain to get an alt tag added to a graphic inserted into a LaTeX document. Yes it is possible, but it requires some additional work by the author if the document is to be born accessible or some post hoc editing by a human to build in that access. I can do the former, but as a blind person the latter option is annoying in HTML and impossible if the output file is in pdf. As it happens, I did write up some starting suggestions for markdown documents which are tailored to people using the R variant of markdown. Head to https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fr- re sources.massey.ac.nz%2FRmarkdown%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447 a3 c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610 21 5333873395&sdata=QQh72p%2Ba6PrSSD3lwvRPIiF8FeQz%2BkqUUQzpV118Aac%3D& re served=0 HTH Jonathan -----Original Message----- From: BlindMath <blindmath-bounces@...<mailto:blindmath-bounces@...>> On Behalf Of Brandon Keith Biggs via BlindMath Sent: Friday, 4 May 2018 10:24 a.m. To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics < blindmath@...<mailto:blindmath@...>> Cc: Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs@...<mailto:brandonkeithbiggs@...>> Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Typing Math and Science Quickly and Understandably Hello Jonathan, Do you have something that explains the least cumbersome syntax for Markdown / LaTeX? Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fbr an donkeithbiggs.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e3 0f b%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sd at a=ec1B3YlMqkt0xuFNrcj9QMnQmUUjaX%2BWpRuqA74U%2F8E%3D&reserved=0> On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 2:11 PM, Godfrey, Jonathan via BlindMath < blindmath@...<mailto:blindmath@...>> wrote: Hello, You are correct that use of LaTeX within a markdown document leads to the same outcome as the workflow you have used in MS Word with MathType. I don't think you should suddenly change workflow for improved access to the mathematical content. There are other reasons why you should get use of pandoc into your toolbox though. I do think Brandon's example is more cumbersome than it needed to be. I use markdown almost daily, and I only ever put a \ to get mathematical content. Forever listening to backslash from any screen reader is annoying, slows me down, and often presents a distraction. This was a leading reason for reducing my use of full-blown LaTeX. I would urge you to make use of the LEAN editor mentioned in this thread to enhance your workflow. The feature of LEAN I use most is the addition of tags to the math content so that you do not need to go backwards and forwards into LaTeX mode to read the content, and you don't have to use the specific combination of tools (screen reader + math player). LEAN offers an alternative and I am not suggesting it as a replacement. Having options is power, because it puts you in control. I do think you need to enhance what you do a little to get the best of what you have now before you embark on all manner of options. I would also suggest to you that the accuracy aspect of your criticism of LaTeX (while true) is also true for practically every tool you will use, and is also true for the scientific content you will be working with. I think your initial message to this thread said you were considering a computer science major; the programming languages you use will have limited flexibility to deal with the human inaccuracies that even the best among us is prone to create. For me, it is the ability to find and correct these inaccuracies that tells me how truly accessible a solution is for me. Markdown is the solution that works best for me today; it is not the only solution I use. My final point is about use of a personal system. I know plenty of blind people who have little shorthand things we write. The problem is that they are individual and can't be shared. The most likely person you will want to share your work with is your future-self. Will you recall the shorthand you use today in ten years' time? Cheers, Jonathan -----Original Message----- From: BlindMath <blindmath-bounces@...<mailto:blindmath-bounces@...> On Behalf Of Bhavya shah via BlindMath Sent: Friday, 4 May 2018 8:05 a.m. To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics < blindmath@...<mailto:blindmath@...>> Cc: Bhavya shah <bhavya.shah125@...<mailto:bhavya.shah125@...>> Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Typing Math and Science Quickly and Understandably Hi Brandon, In essence, this method is very similar to how I used to use LaTeX of MathType to generate Math ML content that was visually readible and screen reader firnedly with the help of NVDA and Math Player. However, my only two concerns are that using LaTeX or any other standardized Math code to type would almost invariably mean (1) slightly longer and stricter syntax that would need to be mandatorily followed, and (2) there are several reasons, some of which include lack of customization in pronunciation and excessive pausing, why I found reading Math ML with the help of Math Player and NVDA somewhat cumbersome in my past experiences. If I come to think of it, it is quite certain that at some point in time, either for typing my own Math&Science or for reading my transcribed course material, I will need to deal with Math ML using Math Player and NVDA, so in a day at most, I will be retrying Math ML and sharing some of the more significant concerns and issues I have with interacting with Math ML. Kindly let me know if my present understanding of the method you described that this is just Pandoc instead of MathType and commandline instead of Word for using LaTeX to generate Math ML content is fundamentally incorrect. Thanks. On 5/3/18, Brandon Keith Biggs via BlindMath <blindmath@...<mailto:blindmath@...>> wrote: Hello, Markdown with LaTeX is perfect for you. Here is an example that Lukasz (from this list wrote): ## Parametric Forms *transcriber: system of two equations, each one has an extra information after comma* \$x = t^2 -2t$,$dx = 2t-2$\$y=
t+1$, minimum at$t=1$\ *transcriber: end of the system* For window: \$t$from$[-2,4]$,$t$step$= 0.1$\$x$from$[-1,10]$\$y$from$[-1,5]$# something easier$3x + y = 10$\$9 * 5 = 45$\ Fractions \$\frac{1}{2} + \frac{1}{2} = 1$This converts perfectly to MathML using pandoc: https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F% 2F pandoc.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb %7 C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&s da ta=HJAQJf7m%2BmPlkNayTPwtyyR1z9JH6WKe7AkQIQ%2Bcxcs%3D&reserved=0 You install pandoc, open a command line where you have the math content and type: pandoc my_math_file.md --mathml -s -o my_html_output_file.html You can give your professor the html file and they can read it in print just fine. If you have a Braille display, the MathML shows up just fine and it is also read by the screen reader. NVDA requires Math player (see the user guide under reading math content for more info). Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F% 2F brandonkeithbiggs.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c1730 8d 5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215 33 3873395&sdata=ec1B3YlMqkt0xuFNrcj9QMnQmUUjaX%2BWpRuqA74U%2F8E%3D &r eserved=0> On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 11:00 AM, Sean Tikkun via BlindMath < blindmath@...<mailto:blindmath@...>> wrote: Bhavya Shah, I am assembling a team to generate 3D models to assist in learning. The team leaders are a former math teacher fluent in Braille (me) and a Fabrication lab director that teaches Biological and Chemical Sciences at the University level. If you have access to 3D printing I would love to know what you may need. Files are easy to send. If not, perhaps there is a fabrication lab at a university in Mumbai that would be interested in some collaboration? Feel free to reach out. stikkun@...<mailto:stikkun@...>. Sean Tikkun Apple Distinguished Educator class of 2007 On May 01, 2018, at 08:51 PM, Sabra Ewing via BlindMath < blindmath@...<mailto:blindmath@...>> wrote: I typed most of my math using the first method. You might be able to type more quickly if you had a braille keyboard. Also note that you can use parentheses and brackets. The Pearce in equation editor can produce math in a visual format. It is free. The braille note touch can do this as well although it is very expensive. I would definitely say to use a keyboard. Do not type on your phone as I am doing now because it is much slower. Another thing you can do is use copy and paste. You do not have to type everything from scratch. You can copy previous steps to your clipboard, paste them, and then modify them to create your future steps. Like for example, you might write a chemical equation that is not balanced. Paste this equation underneath it so you have two copies of the same equation. Then, take the first step toward balancing that equation and make those changes to your second copy. Now you have your equation and underneath it, you have the modified version with step one completed, so copied the version with step one completed to your clipboard and paste it underneath. Now you have the original equation, and you have two copies of step one. Modified the second copy of step one based on what you plan to do in step two. Continue this method until you have finished the problem. With a braille keyboard, you should be able to type as fast as someone can speak and even faster. If you cannot or a braille keyboard is not an option, you can record what is being said with a phone or other recording device and you can then go back over it. Another thing you can do is request things in electronic format. Mini American professors do not know how to create accessible math when it is really very easy as you described. You do not have to know any markup languages. You can create accessible math just by using your computer keyboard, and in many cases, if you are a computer science student, your math is in the perfect format to just paste right over into your ide. Maybe Indian professors would be better at creating accessible. If not, you might be able to find someone who can do it. This will be especially easy if you can find some funding. I was not lucky in this regard because other than professors, I never found a dedicated person who knew how to produce accessible math. I finally got to a position where I could no longer receive accessible math because I moved on to a four-year university where the professors did not know how to produce it. It is very ironic that when I started out at a two year university, the professors did know how to produce it. I approach programmers, professors, deans, and department head. No one actually knew how including the programmers who produce accessible math every day. I finally had to end up listening to my math on recordings and writing everything down. It was very difficult. If you want to get math in braille, there is software that can do it called Duxberry. Ironically, my university actually had this software, but no one knew how to use it including the people who worked at disability services. Getting it for yourself will not be helpful. If you get this software, you will need someone who can modify the equations for you. If your professor has files that were generated from a markup language, you could try asking for those source files. Even if you do not know the markup language, math is written very similarly when you are programming computers, so you could probably pick up how to read it. Unfortunately, my professors used PDFs that they got from other sources or pictures of hand written documents so I could not do this. People will try to tell you that Matt cannot be produced excessively on the computer. This simply is not true. Every mathematical formula, function, and number known to humankind can be programmed into a computer using a text based programming language. Also, many of these functions and formulas can be put into XL. If you can put these formulas into XL, then you can produce them accessibly in a word document. If someone is trying to tell you that they can't, then just tell them to put it in a spreadsheet, press F2 on the cells, and read the formulas that way. XL is very good because you can use it to organize data, you can use it as a calculator, and you can use it to create tables and graphs. You can put these documents in your dropbox and you can get the pictures of the graphs. You can then import these pictures into the voice app on your phone and you can listen to them. If you are going to listen to pie charts, to make it easier on yourself to read, use the 3-D exploding pie charts. This may sound counterintuitive, but when you listen to them, there is a bit more separation between each piece. I don't know how you would get training to listen to grass. I just automatically was born knowing how to do it. No one ever taught me. I could always listen to graphs very easily and I could never read tactile graphics. There is also a program called math tracks where you can create audio graphs by entering in equations.However, it is really best to have both the equation and the data because what if you created a graph using any equation, and you need to make some changes to the data? Well, you don't have the data, so what are you going to do? You could probably generate the data from the equation in some cases, but that will take forever. I like to listen to a graph and have the spreadsheet in front of me at the same time. There is also a blind chemist named Dr. sapalo. I'm not sure how to spell his name. I have his card somewhere but I just have to find it. I really wish people would start using those barcode Cards where I can scan the contact information into my phone, but I only know one person who uses those. Anyways, You may want to get in touch with him. He has all of these probes. They do all different things. They connect to a computer and they can measure chemical reactions and make graphs and do all this stuff depending on what probe you use. For example, you could use one probe to graph the color changes that occur during an experiment. You could use another probe to track temperature changes like ice melting. I don't really do chemistry, but if I did, I imagine I would want this thing, but I can't remember what it is called. But he is actually a chemistry professor at a university. He is totally blind and he teaches classes and runs labs and does all sorts of things. There are plenty of blind computer scientists, but he struck my interest in particular because I have not heard of mini blind chemists. He also had some good advice for 3-D printing that would work in the United States, but I am not sure if it would work in India. If possible though, you may want to get some 3-D models printed. Another thing is that you want to stay consistent. You want to make sure that you are doing things in the classroom the same way you will do them during testing. In my chemistry class, I did not have access to a lot of 3-D models, but for testing purposes, they made me a 3-D model. This really was not fair because it was made out of a lot of cups and straws. I did not know what it was, and it is not fair to use models for testing purposes that you did not use in the classroom or to use a different method for testing purposes that you did not use in the classroom because this will skew the results. If you use certain accommodations in the classroom, insist on the same accommodations for testing. Sabra Ewing On May 1, 2018, at 5:22 PM, Bhavya shah via BlindMath < blindmath@...<mailto:blindmath@...>> wrote: Dear all, I am Bhavya Shah, a totally blind 16-year-old student from Mumbai, India. Having just completed my tenth grade with the same Mathematics and Science syllabus as my sighted peers in a mainstream school, I intend to take up the Science stream according to the Indian education system for Classes 11 and 12 with the subject combination of Physics+Chemistry+Mathematics, and probably take up something Physics+Chemistry+along the lines of Computer Science for my undergraduate studies after that (although I shouldn’t overly worry about about finalizing that for now, I suppose). Additionally, I shall be enrolling into coaching for a very competitive pan-India engineering entrance examination over the next two years where I will be delving into particularly advanced topics in to the three afore-mentioned subjects. Till Class 10, I managed an overwhelming chunk of Math either orally or mentally, and from what I have been informed, have dealt with relatively very simple organic structures, general numericals and chemical equations which I have been handling mostly via plain text. It has become increasingly clear to me that this makeshift method will be extremely inefficient and consequently infeasible for the kind of syllabus I am transitioning to. Hence, I am looking for different techniques, tools or methods of typing Math and Science that will allow me to be as rapid a Math&Science typist as I am of the English language (at its peak, my fingers have achieved about 100 WPM) so that I can cope with the daily rigor this coaching demands. I need to be able to type mathematical and scientific content accurately and swiftly not necessarily such that it is visually readable by a sighted professor but more so for my own reference, understanding and purposes of review and revision. So far, I am versed only with two options – ASCII Math, where I would just type Math and Science using standard symbols present on any keyboard such as /, *, ^ and so on to denote different things (perhaps (x+2)/x-1)) in chiefly plain text, or type things in LaTeX using MathType ($\frac{x+2}{x-1}$) and employ Math Player and NVDA to read it. From my basic understanding of this and limited past experience with each of these methods, the former sounds much faster and more efficient to me, but I am open to evidence and experiences suggesting otherwise. There are various other Math typing tools I have heard about over the years such as Infty Reader and Lean Math, but have never adequately researched them let alone used them to any extent. Any information or instructional material on these and other potential alternatives you would recommend would be of great help too. I would truly appreciate any assistance on different strategies you may have used to math your sighted counterparts’ speed in terms of writing and solving mathematical and scientific material, questions and problem sets. Thanks. -- Best Regards Bhavya Shah Re: Long Link Names Make Reading Difficult Antony Stone How do you read emails which have both HTML and plain text parts? In my experience this is far more common than emails with HTML only (no plain text part). Antony. On Friday 04 May 2018 at 17:14:04, Louis Maher wrote: Thanks Gene. I am reading e-mails in the format they are sent in. For example, I am reading this one in html; although the original mathematical example I sent was sent at text. I agree that the links are not being read correctly. I will continue to work this issue, including looking into other e-mail solutions. Thanks for your comments. Regards Louis Maher Phone: 713-444-7838 E-mail ljmaher03@... From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene Sent: Friday, May 4, 2018 10:46 AM To: Gene <gsasner@...>; nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] Long Link Names Make Reading Difficult Also, are you reading messages as plain text or as HTML? If you read them as plain text, some links won't read properly. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Gene<mailto:gsasner@...> Sent: Friday, May 04, 2018 10:35 AM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> Subject: Re: [nvda] Long Link Names Make Reading Difficult It appears that the links aren't being read correctly. They are evidently links that should just be read as text as links on web pages are reead. This sounds like just one more problem related to Outlook, which is the subject of far more messages I see describing problems than any other popular Windows e-mail program among blind people. It may be that the NVDA developers, if theis is a general problem, will address it. Unless you need Outlook for some reason, it would be a good idea to try firefox or Windows Live Mail. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Louis Maher<mailto:ljmaher03@...> Sent: Friday, May 04, 2018 10:16 AM To: NVDA Discussion List (nvda@nvda.groups.io)<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io)> Subject: [nvda] Long Link Names Make Reading Difficult Hello, Lately I have been encountering very long links which make reading difficult, especially in e-mails. The links span several lines, and are difficult to arrow past. Also, some of the text is either at the beginning or end of these long links and are difficult to separate from the long links. I am using Outlook 2016. JAWS seems to be able to confine the links to one line; also, JAWS seems to be able to eliminate reading blank lines when there are several blank lines between paragraphs. Are there any NVDA settings which can confine the links to one line and eliminate reading multiple blank lines in Outlook 2016? Thanks. Regards Louis Maher Phone: 713-444-7838 E-mail ljmaher03@...<mailto:ljmaher03@...> -----Original Message----- From: BlindMath <blindmath-bounces@...<mailto:blindmath-bounces@...>> On Behalf Of Brandon Keith Biggs via BlindMath Sent: Friday, May 4, 2018 4:00 AM To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics <blindmath@...<mailto:blindmath@...>> Cc: Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs@...<mailto:brandonkeithbiggs@...>> Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Typing Math and Science Quickly and Understandably Hello, That article was very good thank you! I would like to get an overview of how these different tools for producing math output work. Here is what I understand so far, please correct me where I'm wrong: Every single method of producing inclusive math documents requires the LaTeX [syntax.]( https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikib ooks.org%2Fwiki%2FLaTeX%2FMathematics&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17 308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6366102153338733 95&sdata=M6mF7uM0lfS6%2F0AGDTSnKiOH6eohNdBk9Q87qmkG%2BeY%3D&reserved=0) The only difference is in the editor and compiler. There are four ways of producing math content on the computer: F1. (note I couldn't install the 30 day trial to test this out as the accept license screen was not accessible) Using Microsoft Word or the editor with [Mathtype.]( https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dessc i.com%2Fen%2Fproducts%2Fmathtype%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c1730 8d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395 &sdata=M0vgsFeq6JmKX%2FakP4HrdQEIIiKbDjhCt0Nyc0NYLMA%3D&reserved=0) This allows you to have a large symbol list to choose from rather than needing to type LaTeX, although you can type LaTeX if you wish. This has more immediate feedback as users are able to read their equations in MathML instantly rather than waiting to compile. This allows people to edit math in Word which is generally a familiar environment. The downside is the program costs around$50 a year and you don't get the powerful abilities
such as using BibTX, for writing papers. For math though, this works just
fine. So pros are familiar environment in Word, WYSIWYG symbol list and
editing, and access to the tools word has, such as spellcheck. Cons are
the cost, lack of external tools such as BibTX, and the need for two
proprietary applications.

2. Using [pandoc](
https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpandoc.o
rg%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640af
b435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=HJAQJf7m%2BmPlkNayTPwty
yR1z9JH6WKe7AkQIQ%2Bcxcs%3D&reserved=0) to compile either pure LaTeX or
Markdown combined with LaTeX. Pros are the vast number of formats one can
export to, the ability to type in both LaTeX and Markdown, completely open
source, and access to tools such as BibTX. The cons are the need for one
to use the command line, the requirement to type LaTeX math, and the need
for one to understand how text editors and file types work.

3. Using [RMarkdown](
https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Frmarkdow
n.rstudio.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9
e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=hxNa6p%2F0hZ
Ztm11eRL7OJx0w%2BOg0nQLGSY5O4Ur%2B9tk%3D&reserved=0) Is basically for
programmers to insert output from programs (such as python or R scripts)
into a document. That way you don't need to insert screenshots or type the
output of the program every time you compile. Other than that it is
pandoc. Pros are the ability to call code from your Markdown file, massive
number of output file formats, completely open source, and the ability to
use tools such as BibTX. Cons are that one needs to use Markdown, the
required use of the command line, required use of LaTeX math, and the need
to understand editors and file types.

4. Using [MiKTeX](
https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmiktex.o
rg%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640af
b435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=WGU1%2FjVwaeazi1k%2FXMx
0apWAJVHqRfNEz22bD0Kb41I%3D&reserved=0) with either a text editor or an IDE
like [TEXnicCenter.](
https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.texni
ccenter.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7
fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=kdVMzPSILszjz0
SrIcIkCj48hXInScKcrL6HOMxcDP8%3D&reserved=0)

Pros are that everything is integrated so no knowledge of the command line
is needed, ability to export in a wide range of formats, and ability to
use tools like BibTX. Cons are the configuration options if one wishes to
do anything other than the default, the need to type in pure LaTeX, and
exclusive to Windows (although there are text editors and IDEs other than
TeXnicCenter that can be used on other operating systems).

From what I have generally seen, Word is preferred by new users or users
who like to use word, pandoc is preferred by users who are intermediate or
above and who are not afraid of the command line, RMarkdown is used by
programmers and data annalists who run code, and TeXnicCenter is used by
people who want a simple plug and play tool for conversion between LaTeX
and other formats. They each have their different affordances and should
be used accordingly.

Thanks,

Brandon Keith Biggs
<https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fbrandonk
eithbiggs.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9
e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=ec1B3YlMqkt0
xuFNrcj9QMnQmUUjaX%2BWpRuqA74U%2F8E%3D&reserved=0>

On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 4:09 PM, Godfrey, Jonathan via BlindMath <
blindmath@...<mailto:blindmath@...>> wrote:
Hi Brandon,

Take out all the backslashes in the example you sent through that
aren't part of a mathematical expression. White space does all that is
needed for line breaks, indenting etc. in markdown documents.

You can't change the cumbersome nature of the LaTeX content for
equations, but I suggest using *x* instead of the more common $x$
within paragraphs because the font is so similar that it doesn't
matter to the sighted audience but the conversion to italics from the
stars is not spoken by a screen reader while the conversion to math
mode from use of dollars is announced. This suggestion does break the
rules for semantic correctness, but the distraction that is caused by
the screen reader telling me x was math content can often detract from
the overall reading experience of the final document especially in
sentences where there are plenty of elements using simple mathematical
notation. (You can't do this for super or subscripts so easily, or if the
element needs a {} construct for example.

One of the major pluses for encouraging my colleagues and anyone else
preparing material that might be read by a blind person is that the
author does not have to think about accessibility during document
preparation. The access is built in so often because markdown forces
an author to at least know they didn't add an alt tag for a graphic
because they left some brackets empty. They often don't know what
they've done (positive or
negative) in reality so occasionally, some helpful reminders are
required. <smiles> Markdown won't stop people choosing daft text for
hyperlinks such as "here" but that's a societal issue not a mathematical
one.

Compare the simplicity of markdown to the pain to get an alt tag
added to a graphic inserted into a LaTeX document. Yes it is possible,
but it requires some additional work by the author if the document is
to be born accessible or some post hoc editing by a human to build in
that access. I can do the former, but as a blind person the latter
option is annoying in HTML and impossible if the output file is in pdf.

As it happens, I did write up some starting suggestions for markdown
documents which are tailored to people using the R variant of markdown.
Head to
https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fr-re
sources.massey.ac.nz%2FRmarkdown%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3
c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C63661021
5333873395&sdata=QQh72p%2Ba6PrSSD3lwvRPIiF8FeQz%2BkqUUQzpV118Aac%3D&re
served=0

HTH
Jonathan

-----Original Message-----
From: BlindMath
<blindmath-bounces@...<mailto:blindmath-bounces@...>> On
Behalf Of Brandon Keith Biggs via BlindMath
Sent: Friday, 4 May 2018 10:24 a.m.
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics <
blindmath@...<mailto:blindmath@...>>
Cc: Brandon Keith Biggs
<brandonkeithbiggs@...<mailto:brandonkeithbiggs@...>>
Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Typing Math and Science Quickly and
Understandably

Hello Jonathan,
Do you have something that explains the least cumbersome syntax for
Markdown / LaTeX?
Thanks,

Brandon Keith Biggs
<https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fbran
donkeithbiggs.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30f
b%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdat
a=ec1B3YlMqkt0xuFNrcj9QMnQmUUjaX%2BWpRuqA74U%2F8E%3D&reserved=0>

On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 2:11 PM, Godfrey, Jonathan via BlindMath <

blindmath@...<mailto:blindmath@...>> wrote:
Hello,

You are correct that use of LaTeX within a markdown document leads
to the same outcome as the workflow you have used in MS Word with
MathType. I don't think you should suddenly change workflow for
improved access to the mathematical content. There are other reasons
why you should get use of pandoc into your toolbox though.

I do think Brandon's example is more cumbersome than it needed to be.
I use markdown almost daily, and I only ever put a \ to get
mathematical content. Forever listening to backslash from any screen
reader is annoying, slows me down, and often presents a distraction.
This was a leading reason for reducing my use of full-blown LaTeX.

I would urge you to make use of the LEAN editor mentioned in this
thread to enhance your workflow. The feature of LEAN I use most is
the addition of tags to the math content so that you do not need to
go backwards and forwards into LaTeX mode to read the content, and
you don't have to use the specific combination of tools (screen
reader + math player). LEAN offers an alternative and I am not
suggesting it as a replacement. Having options is power, because it
puts you in control.

I do think you need to enhance what you do a little to get the best
of what you have now before you embark on all manner of options. I
would also suggest to you that the accuracy aspect of your criticism
of LaTeX (while
true) is also true for practically every tool you will use, and is
also true for the scientific content you will be working with. I
think your initial message to this thread said you were considering
a computer science major; the programming languages you use will
have limited flexibility to deal with the human inaccuracies that
even the best among us is prone to create. For me, it is the ability
to find and correct these inaccuracies that tells me how truly
accessible a solution is for me. Markdown is the solution that works
best for me
today; it is not the only solution I use.

My final point is about use of a personal system. I know plenty of
blind people who have little shorthand things we write. The problem
is that they are individual and can't be shared. The most likely
person you will want to share your work with is your future-self.
Will you recall the shorthand you use today in ten years' time?

Cheers,
Jonathan

-----Original Message-----
From: BlindMath
<blindmath-bounces@...<mailto:blindmath-bounces@...>> On
Behalf Of Bhavya shah via BlindMath
Sent: Friday, 4 May 2018 8:05 a.m.
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics <
blindmath@...<mailto:blindmath@...>>
Cc: Bhavya shah
<bhavya.shah125@...<mailto:bhavya.shah125@...>> Subject:
Re: [BlindMath] Typing Math and Science Quickly and
Understandably

Hi Brandon,

In essence, this method is very similar to how I used to use LaTeX
of MathType to generate Math ML content that was visually readible
and screen reader firnedly with the help of NVDA and Math Player.
However, my only two concerns are that using LaTeX or any other
standardized Math code to type would almost invariably mean (1)
slightly longer and stricter syntax that would need to be
mandatorily followed, and (2) there are several reasons, some of
which include lack of customization in pronunciation and excessive
pausing, why I found reading Math ML with the help of Math Player
and NVDA somewhat cumbersome in my past experiences. If I come to
think of it, it is quite certain that at some point in time, either
for typing my own Math&Science or for reading my transcribed course
material, I will need to deal with Math ML using Math Player and
NVDA, so in a day at most, I will be retrying Math ML and sharing
some of the more significant concerns and issues I
have with interacting with Math ML.

Kindly let me know if my present understanding of the method you
described that this is just Pandoc instead of MathType and
commandline instead of Word for using LaTeX to generate Math ML
content is
fundamentally incorrect.

Thanks.

On 5/3/18, Brandon Keith Biggs via BlindMath
<blindmath@...<mailto:blindmath@...>>
wrote:
Hello,
Markdown with LaTeX is perfect for you. Here is an example that
Lukasz (from this list wrote):

## Parametric Forms

*transcriber: system of two equations, each one has an extra
information after comma* \ $x = t^2 -2t$, $dx = 2t-2$ \ $y= t+1$,
minimum at $t=1$ \
*transcriber: end of the system*

For window:
\
$t$ from $[-2,4]$, $t$ step $= 0.1$ \ $x$ from $[-1,10]$ \ $y$
from $[-1,5]$

# something easier

$3x + y = 10$
\
$9 * 5 = 45$
\
Fractions
\
$\frac{1}{2} + \frac{1}{2} = 1$

This converts perfectly to MathML using pandoc:
https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2F
pandoc.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7
C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sda
ta=HJAQJf7m%2BmPlkNayTPwtyyR1z9JH6WKe7AkQIQ%2Bcxcs%3D&reserved=0

You install pandoc, open a command line where you have the math
content and
type:

pandoc my_math_file.md --mathml -s -o my_html_output_file.html

You can give your professor the html file and they can read it in
print just fine. If you have a Braille display, the MathML shows
up just fine and it is also read by the screen reader. NVDA
requires Math player (see the user guide under reading math
content for more
info).

Thanks,

Brandon Keith Biggs
<https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2F
brandonkeithbiggs.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d
5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C63661021533
3873395&sdata=ec1B3YlMqkt0xuFNrcj9QMnQmUUjaX%2BWpRuqA74U%2F8E%3D&r
eserved=0>

On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 11:00 AM, Sean Tikkun via BlindMath <

blindmath@...<mailto:blindmath@...>> wrote:
Bhavya Shah,

I am assembling a team to generate 3D models to assist in

learning. The team leaders are a former math teacher fluent in
Braille (me) and a Fabrication lab director that teaches
Biological and Chemical Sciences at the University level. If you
have access to 3D printing I would love to know what you may
need. Files are easy to send. If not, perhaps there is a
fabrication lab at a university in Mumbai that would be interested
in some collaboration?

Feel free to reach out.
stikkun@...<mailto:stikkun@...>.

Sean Tikkun
Apple Distinguished Educator
class of 2007

On May 01, 2018, at 08:51 PM, Sabra Ewing via BlindMath <
blindmath@...<mailto:blindmath@...>> wrote:

I typed most of my math using the first method. You might be able
to type more quickly if you had a braille keyboard. Also note
that you can use parentheses and brackets. The Pearce in equation
editor can produce math in a visual format. It is free. The
braille note touch can do this as well although it is very
expensive. I would definitely say to use a keyboard.
Do
not type on your phone as I am doing now because it is much slower.
Another
thing you can do is use copy and paste. You do not have to type
everything from scratch. You can copy previous steps to your
clipboard, paste them, and then modify them to create your future
steps. Like for example, you might write a chemical equation that
is not balanced. Paste this equation underneath it so you have
two copies of the same equation. Then, take the first step toward
balancing that equation and make those changes to your second copy.
Now you have your equation and underneath it, you have the
modified version with step one completed, so copied the version
with step one completed to your clipboard and paste it
underneath. Now you have the original equation, and you have two
copies of step one. Modified the second copy of step one based on
what you plan to do in
step two.

Continue this method until you have finished the problem. With a
braille keyboard, you should be able to type as fast as someone
can speak and even faster. If you cannot or a braille keyboard is
not an option, you can record what is being said with a phone or
other recording device and you can then go back over it. Another
thing you can do is request things in electronic format. Mini
American professors do not know how to create accessible math
when it is really very easy as you described. You do not have to
know any markup languages. You can create accessible math just by
using your computer keyboard, and in many cases, if you are a
computer science student, your math is in the perfect format to
just paste right over into your
ide.

Maybe
Indian professors would be better at creating accessible. If not,
you might be able to find someone who can do it. This will be
especially easy if you can find some funding. I was not lucky in
this regard because other than professors, I never found a
dedicated person who knew how to produce accessible math. I
finally got to a position where I could no longer receive
accessible math because I moved on to a four-year university
where the professors did not know how to produce it. It is very
ironic that when I started out at a two year university, the
professors did know how to produce it. I approach programmers,
professors, deans, and
department head.

No one actually knew how including the programmers who produce
accessible math every day. I finally had to end up listening to
my math on recordings and writing everything down. It was very
difficult. If you want to get math in braille, there is software
that can do it called Duxberry. Ironically, my university
actually had this software, but no one knew how to use it
including the people who worked at disability services. Getting
it for yourself will not be helpful. If you get this software,
you will need someone who can modify the equations for you. If
your professor has files that were generated from a markup
language, you could try asking for those source files. Even if
you do not know the markup language, math is written very
similarly when you are programming computers, so you could probably
pick up how to read it. Unfortunately, my professors used PDFs that
they got from other sources or pictures of hand written documents
so I could not do this. People will try to tell you that Matt
cannot be produced excessively on the computer. This simply is not
true. Every mathematical formula, function, and number known to
humankind can be programmed into a computer using a text based
programming language. Also, many of these functions and formulas
can be put into XL. If you can put these formulas into XL, then you
can produce them accessibly in a word document. If someone is
trying to tell you that they can't, then just tell them to put it
in a
spreadsheet, press F2 on the cells, and read the formulas that way.

XL is very good because you can use it to organize data, you can
use it as a calculator, and you can use it to create tables and
graphs.

You can put these documents in your dropbox and you can get the
pictures of the graphs.
You can then import these pictures into the voice app on your
phone and you can listen to them. If you are going to listen to
pie charts, to make it easier on yourself to read, use the 3-D
exploding pie charts. This may sound counterintuitive, but when
you listen to them, there is a bit more separation between each
piece. I don't know how you would get training to listen to grass.
I just automatically was born knowing how to do it. No one ever
taught me. I could always listen to graphs very easily and I could
never read
tactile graphics.

There is also a program called math tracks where you can create
audio graphs by entering in equations.However, it is really best
to have both the equation and the data because what if you
created a graph using any equation, and you need to make some
changes to the
data?

Well, you don't have the data, so what are you going to do? You
could probably generate the data from the equation in some cases,
but that will take forever. I like to listen to a graph and have
the spreadsheet in front of me at the same time. There is also a
blind
chemist named Dr.

sapalo. I'm not sure how to spell his name. I have his card
somewhere but I just have to find it. I really wish people would
start using those barcode Cards where I can scan the contact
information into my phone, but I only know one person who uses
those. Anyways, You may want to get in touch with him. He has all
of these probes. They do all different things. They connect to a
computer and they can measure chemical reactions and make graphs
and do all this stuff depending on what probe you use. For
example, you could use one probe to graph the color changes that
occur during
an experiment.

You could use another probe to track temperature changes like ice
melting.

I don't really do chemistry, but if I did, I imagine I would want
this thing, but I can't remember what it is called. But he is
actually a chemistry professor at a university. He is totally
blind and he teaches classes and runs labs and does all sorts of
things. There are plenty of blind computer scientists, but he
struck my interest in particular because I have not heard of mini
blind chemists. He also had some good advice for 3-D printing that
would work in the United States, but I am not sure if it would work
in India. If possible though, you may want to get some 3-D models
printed. Another thing is that you want to stay
consistent. You want to make sure that you are doing things in
the classroom the same way you will do them during testing. In my
chemistry class, I did not have access to a lot of 3-D models,
but for testing purposes, they made me a 3-D model.
This really was not fair because it was made out of a lot of cups
and straws. I did not know what it was, and it is not fair to use
models for testing purposes that you did not use in the classroom
or to use a different method for testing purposes that you did
not use in the classroom because this will skew the results. If
you use certain accommodations in the classroom, insist on the
same accommodations for testing.

Sabra Ewing

On May 1, 2018, at 5:22 PM, Bhavya shah via BlindMath <
blindmath@...<mailto:blindmath@...>> wrote:

Dear all,

I am Bhavya Shah, a totally blind 16-year-old student from
Mumbai, India. Having just completed my tenth grade with the same
Mathematics and Science syllabus as my sighted peers in a
mainstream school, I intend to take up the Science stream
according to the Indian education system for Classes 11 and 12
with the subject combination of
Physics+Chemistry+Mathematics, and probably take up something
Physics+Chemistry+along
the lines of Computer Science for my undergraduate studies after
that (although I shouldn’t overly worry about about finalizing
that for now, I suppose). Additionally, I shall be enrolling into
coaching for a very competitive pan-India engineering entrance
examination over the next two years where I will be delving into
particularly advanced topics in to the three afore-mentioned
subjects.

Till Class 10, I managed an overwhelming chunk of Math either
orally or mentally, and from what I have been informed, have
dealt with relatively very simple organic structures, general
numericals and chemical equations which I have been handling
mostly via plain
text.

It has become increasingly clear to me that this makeshift method
will be extremely inefficient and consequently infeasible for the
kind of syllabus I am transitioning to. Hence, I am looking for
different techniques, tools or methods of typing Math and Science
that will allow me to be as rapid a Math&Science typist as I am
of the English language (at its peak, my fingers have achieved
about
100
WPM) so that I can cope with the daily rigor this coaching demands.
I need to be able to type mathematical and scientific content
accurately and swiftly not necessarily such that it is visually
readable by a sighted professor but more so for my own reference,
understanding and purposes of review and revision.

So far, I am versed only with two options – ASCII Math, where I
would just type Math and Science using standard symbols present
on any keyboard such as /, *, ^ and so on to denote different
things (perhaps
(x+2)/x-1)) in chiefly plain text, or type things in LaTeX using
MathType ($\frac{x+2}{x-1}$) and employ Math Player and NVDA to
read it. From my basic understanding of this and limited past
experience with each of these methods, the former sounds much
faster and more efficient to me, but I am open to evidence and
experiences suggesting otherwise. There are various other Math
typing tools I have heard about over the years such as Infty
Reader and Lean Math, but have never adequately researched them
let alone
used them to any extent.

Any information or instructional material on these and other
potential alternatives you would recommend would be of great help
too.

I would truly appreciate any assistance on different strategies
you may have used to math your sighted counterparts’ speed in
terms of writing and solving mathematical and scientific
material, questions and problem sets.

Thanks.

--
Best Regards
Bhavya Shah

Re: Long Link Names Make Reading Difficult

Louis Maher <ljmaher03@...>

Thanks Gene.

I am reading e-mails in the format they are sent in.  For example, I am reading this one in html; although the original mathematical example I sent was sent at text.

I agree that the links are not being read correctly.  I will continue to work this issue, including looking into other e-mail solutions.

Thanks for your comments.

Regards

Louis Maher

Phone: 713-444-7838

E-mail ljmaher03@...

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Friday, May 4, 2018 10:46 AM
To: Gene <gsasner@...>; nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Long Link Names Make Reading Difficult

Also, are you reading messages as plain text or as HTML?  If you read them as plain text, some links won't read properly.

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From:

Sent: Friday, May 04, 2018 10:35 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Long Link Names Make Reading Difficult

It appears that the links aren't being read correctly.  They are evidently links that should just be read as text as links on web pages are reead.

This sounds like just one more problem related to Outlook, which is the subject of far more messages I see describing problems than any other popular Windows e-mail program among blind people.

It may be that the NVDA developers, if theis is a general problem, will address it.  Unless you need Outlook for some reason, it would be a good idea to try firefox or Windows Live Mail.

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From:

Sent: Friday, May 04, 2018 10:16 AM

Subject: [nvda] Long Link Names Make Reading Difficult

Hello,

Lately I have been encountering very long links which make reading difficult, especially in e-mails.  The links span several lines, and are difficult to arrow past.  Also, some of the text is either at the beginning or end of these long links and are difficult to separate from the long links.  I am using Outlook 2016.

JAWS seems to be able to confine the links to one line; also, JAWS seems to be able to eliminate reading blank lines when there are several blank lines between paragraphs.

Are there any NVDA settings which can confine the links to one line and eliminate reading multiple blank lines in Outlook 2016?

Thanks.

Regards
Louis Maher
Phone: 713-444-7838
E-mail ljmaher03@...

-----Original Message-----
From: BlindMath <blindmath-bounces@...> On Behalf Of Brandon Keith Biggs via BlindMath
Sent: Friday, May 4, 2018 4:00 AM
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics <blindmath@...>
Cc: Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs@...>
Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Typing Math and Science Quickly and Understandably

Hello,

That article was very good thank you!

I would like to get an overview of how these different tools for producing math output work. Here is what I understand so far, please correct me where I'm wrong:

Every single method of producing inclusive math documents requires the LaTeX [syntax.]( https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikibooks.org%2Fwiki%2FLaTeX%2FMathematics&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=M6mF7uM0lfS6%2F0AGDTSnKiOH6eohNdBk9Q87qmkG%2BeY%3D&reserved=0)

The only difference is in the editor and compiler.

There are four ways of producing math content on the computer:

F1. (note I couldn't install the 30 day trial to test this out as the accept license screen was not accessible) Using Microsoft Word or the editor with [Mathtype.]( https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dessci.com%2Fen%2Fproducts%2Fmathtype%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=M0vgsFeq6JmKX%2FakP4HrdQEIIiKbDjhCt0Nyc0NYLMA%3D&reserved=0) This allows you to have a large symbol list to choose from rather than needing to type LaTeX, although you can type LaTeX if you wish. This has more immediate feedback as users are able to read their equations in MathML instantly rather than waiting to compile. This allows people to edit math in Word which is generally a familiar environment. The downside is the program costs around $50 a year and you don't get the powerful abilities such as using BibTX, for writing papers. For math though, this works just fine. So pros are familiar environment in Word, WYSIWYG symbol list and editing, and access to the tools word has, such as spellcheck. Cons are the cost, lack of external tools such as BibTX, and the need for two proprietary applications. 2. Using [pandoc]( https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpandoc.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=HJAQJf7m%2BmPlkNayTPwtyyR1z9JH6WKe7AkQIQ%2Bcxcs%3D&reserved=0) to compile either pure LaTeX or Markdown combined with LaTeX. Pros are the vast number of formats one can export to, the ability to type in both LaTeX and Markdown, completely open source, and access to tools such as BibTX. The cons are the need for one to use the command line, the requirement to type LaTeX math, and the need for one to understand how text editors and file types work. 3. Using [RMarkdown]( https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Frmarkdown.rstudio.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=hxNa6p%2F0hZZtm11eRL7OJx0w%2BOg0nQLGSY5O4Ur%2B9tk%3D&reserved=0) Is basically for programmers to insert output from programs (such as python or R scripts) into a document. That way you don't need to insert screenshots or type the output of the program every time you compile. Other than that it is pandoc. Pros are the ability to call code from your Markdown file, massive number of output file formats, completely open source, and the ability to use tools such as BibTX. Cons are that one needs to use Markdown, the required use of the command line, required use of LaTeX math, and the need to understand editors and file types. 4. Using [MiKTeX]( https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmiktex.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=WGU1%2FjVwaeazi1k%2FXMx0apWAJVHqRfNEz22bD0Kb41I%3D&reserved=0) with either a text editor or an IDE like [TEXnicCenter.]( https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.texniccenter.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=kdVMzPSILszjz0SrIcIkCj48hXInScKcrL6HOMxcDP8%3D&reserved=0) Pros are that everything is integrated so no knowledge of the command line is needed, ability to export in a wide range of formats, and ability to use tools like BibTX. Cons are the configuration options if one wishes to do anything other than the default, the need to type in pure LaTeX, and exclusive to Windows (although there are text editors and IDEs other than TeXnicCenter that can be used on other operating systems). From what I have generally seen, Word is preferred by new users or users who like to use word, pandoc is preferred by users who are intermediate or above and who are not afraid of the command line, RMarkdown is used by programmers and data annalists who run code, and TeXnicCenter is used by people who want a simple plug and play tool for conversion between LaTeX and other formats. They each have their different affordances and should be used accordingly. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fbrandonkeithbiggs.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=ec1B3YlMqkt0xuFNrcj9QMnQmUUjaX%2BWpRuqA74U%2F8E%3D&reserved=0> On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 4:09 PM, Godfrey, Jonathan via BlindMath < blindmath@...> wrote: > Hi Brandon, > > Take out all the backslashes in the example you sent through that > aren't part of a mathematical expression. White space does all that is > needed for line breaks, indenting etc. in markdown documents. > > You can't change the cumbersome nature of the LaTeX content for > equations, but I suggest using *x* instead of the more common$x$> within paragraphs because the font is so similar that it doesn't > matter to the sighted audience but the conversion to italics from the > stars is not spoken by a screen reader while the conversion to math > mode from use of dollars is announced. This suggestion does break the > rules for semantic correctness, but the distraction that is caused by > the screen reader telling me x was math content can often detract from > the overall reading experience of the final document especially in > sentences where there are plenty of elements using simple mathematical > notation. (You can't do this for super or subscripts so easily, or if the element needs a {} construct for example. > > One of the major pluses for encouraging my colleagues and anyone else > preparing material that might be read by a blind person is that the > author does not have to think about accessibility during document > preparation. The access is built in so often because markdown forces > an author to at least know they didn't add an alt tag for a graphic > because they left some brackets empty. They often don't know what > they've done (positive or > negative) in reality so occasionally, some helpful reminders are required. > <smiles> Markdown won't stop people choosing daft text for hyperlinks > such as "here" but that's a societal issue not a mathematical one. > > Compare the simplicity of markdown to the pain to get an alt tag > added to a graphic inserted into a LaTeX document. Yes it is possible, > but it requires some additional work by the author if the document is > to be born accessible or some post hoc editing by a human to build in > that access. I can do the former, but as a blind person the latter > option is annoying in HTML and impossible if the output file is in pdf. > > As it happens, I did write up some starting suggestions for markdown > documents which are tailored to people using the R variant of markdown. > Head to > https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fr-re > sources.massey.ac.nz%2FRmarkdown%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3 > c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C63661021 > 5333873395&sdata=QQh72p%2Ba6PrSSD3lwvRPIiF8FeQz%2BkqUUQzpV118Aac%3D&re > served=0 > > HTH > Jonathan > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindMath <blindmath-bounces@...> On Behalf Of Brandon > Keith Biggs via BlindMath > Sent: Friday, 4 May 2018 10:24 a.m. > To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics < > blindmath@...> > Cc: Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs@...> > Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Typing Math and Science Quickly and > Understandably > > Hello Jonathan, > Do you have something that explains the least cumbersome syntax for > Markdown / LaTeX? > Thanks, > > > Brandon Keith Biggs > <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fbran > donkeithbiggs.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30f > b%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdat > a=ec1B3YlMqkt0xuFNrcj9QMnQmUUjaX%2BWpRuqA74U%2F8E%3D&reserved=0> > > On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 2:11 PM, Godfrey, Jonathan via BlindMath < > blindmath@...> wrote: > > > Hello, > > > > You are correct that use of LaTeX within a markdown document leads > > to the same outcome as the workflow you have used in MS Word with > > MathType. I don't think you should suddenly change workflow for > > improved access to the mathematical content. There are other reasons > > why you should get use of pandoc into your toolbox though. > > > > I do think Brandon's example is more cumbersome than it needed to be. > > I use markdown almost daily, and I only ever put a \ to get > > mathematical content. Forever listening to backslash from any screen > > reader is annoying, slows me down, and often presents a distraction. > > This was a leading reason for reducing my use of full-blown LaTeX. > > > > I would urge you to make use of the LEAN editor mentioned in this > > thread to enhance your workflow. The feature of LEAN I use most is > > the addition of tags to the math content so that you do not need to > > go backwards and forwards into LaTeX mode to read the content, and > > you don't have to use the specific combination of tools (screen > > reader + math player). LEAN offers an alternative and I am not > > suggesting it as a replacement. Having options is power, because it puts you in control. > > > > I do think you need to enhance what you do a little to get the best > > of what you have now before you embark on all manner of options. I > > would also suggest to you that the accuracy aspect of your criticism > > of LaTeX (while > > true) is also true for practically every tool you will use, and is > > also true for the scientific content you will be working with. I > > think your initial message to this thread said you were considering > > a computer science major; the programming languages you use will > > have limited flexibility to deal with the human inaccuracies that > > even the best among us is prone to create. For me, it is the ability > > to find and correct these inaccuracies that tells me how truly > > accessible a solution is for me. Markdown is the solution that works > > best for me > today; it is not the only solution I use. > > > > My final point is about use of a personal system. I know plenty of > > blind people who have little shorthand things we write. The problem > > is that they are individual and can't be shared. The most likely > > person you will want to share your work with is your future-self. > > Will you recall the shorthand you use today in ten years' time? > > > > Cheers, > > Jonathan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: BlindMath <blindmath-bounces@...> On Behalf Of Bhavya > > shah via BlindMath > > Sent: Friday, 4 May 2018 8:05 a.m. > > To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics < > > blindmath@...> > > Cc: Bhavya shah <bhavya.shah125@...> > > Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Typing Math and Science Quickly and > > Understandably > > > > Hi Brandon, > > > > In essence, this method is very similar to how I used to use LaTeX > > of MathType to generate Math ML content that was visually readible > > and screen reader firnedly with the help of NVDA and Math Player. > > However, my only two concerns are that using LaTeX or any other > > standardized Math code to type would almost invariably mean (1) > > slightly longer and stricter syntax that would need to be > > mandatorily followed, and (2) there are several reasons, some of > > which include lack of customization in pronunciation and excessive > > pausing, why I found reading Math ML with the help of Math Player > > and NVDA somewhat cumbersome in my past experiences. If I come to > > think of it, it is quite certain that at some point in time, either > > for typing my own Math&Science or for reading my transcribed course > > material, I will need to deal with Math ML using Math Player and > > NVDA, so in a day at most, I will be retrying Math ML and sharing > > some of the more significant concerns and issues I > have with interacting with Math ML. > > > > Kindly let me know if my present understanding of the method you > > described that this is just Pandoc instead of MathType and > > commandline instead of Word for using LaTeX to generate Math ML > > content is > fundamentally incorrect. > > > > Thanks. > > > > On 5/3/18, Brandon Keith Biggs via BlindMath <blindmath@...> > wrote: > > > Hello, > > > Markdown with LaTeX is perfect for you. Here is an example that > > > Lukasz (from this list wrote): > > > > > > ## Parametric Forms > > > > > > *transcriber: system of two equations, each one has an extra > > > information after comma* \$x = t^2 -2t$,$dx = 2t-2$\$y= t+1$, > > > minimum at$t=1$\ > > > *transcriber: end of the system* > > > > > > For window: > > > \ > > >$t$from$[-2,4]$,$t$step$= 0.1$\$x$from$[-1,10]$\$y$> > > from$[-1,5]$> > > > > > # something easier > > > > > >$3x + y = 10$> > > \ > > >$9 * 5 = 45$> > > \ > > > Fractions > > > \ > > >$\frac{1}{2} + \frac{1}{2} = 1$> > > > > > > > > This converts perfectly to MathML using pandoc: > > > https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2F > > > pandoc.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7 > > > C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sda > > > ta=HJAQJf7m%2BmPlkNayTPwtyyR1z9JH6WKe7AkQIQ%2Bcxcs%3D&reserved=0 > > > > > > You install pandoc, open a command line where you have the math > > > content and > > > type: > > > > > > pandoc my_math_file.md --mathml -s -o my_html_output_file.html > > > > > > You can give your professor the html file and they can read it in > > > print just fine. If you have a Braille display, the MathML shows > > > up just fine and it is also read by the screen reader. NVDA > > > requires Math player (see the user guide under reading math > > > content for more > info). > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > Brandon Keith Biggs > > > <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2F > > > brandonkeithbiggs.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d > > > 5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C63661021533 > > > 3873395&sdata=ec1B3YlMqkt0xuFNrcj9QMnQmUUjaX%2BWpRuqA74U%2F8E%3D&r > > > eserved=0> > > > > > > On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 11:00 AM, Sean Tikkun via BlindMath < > > > blindmath@...> wrote: > > > > > >> Bhavya Shah, > > >> > > >> I am assembling a team to generate 3D models to assist in > > >> learning. The team leaders are a former math teacher fluent in > > >> Braille (me) and a Fabrication lab director that teaches > > >> Biological and Chemical Sciences at the University level. If you > > >> have access to 3D printing I would love to know what you may > > >> need. Files are easy to send. If not, perhaps there is a > > >> fabrication lab at a university in Mumbai that would be interested in some collaboration? > > >> Feel free to reach out. stikkun@.... > > >> > > >> > > >> Sean Tikkun > > >> Apple Distinguished Educator > > >> class of 2007 > > >> > > >> On May 01, 2018, at 08:51 PM, Sabra Ewing via BlindMath < > > >> blindmath@...> wrote: > > >> > > >> I typed most of my math using the first method. You might be able > > >> to type more quickly if you had a braille keyboard. Also note > > >> that you can use parentheses and brackets. The Pearce in equation > > >> editor can produce math in a visual format. It is free. The > > >> braille note touch can do this as well although it is very > > >> expensive. I would definitely say to use a keyboard. > > >> Do > > >> not type on your phone as I am doing now because it is much slower. > > >> Another > > >> thing you can do is use copy and paste. You do not have to type > > >> everything from scratch. You can copy previous steps to your > > >> clipboard, paste them, and then modify them to create your future > > >> steps. Like for example, you might write a chemical equation that > > >> is not balanced. Paste this equation underneath it so you have > > >> two copies of the same equation. Then, take the first step toward > > >> balancing that equation and make those changes to your second copy. > > >> Now you have your equation and underneath it, you have the > > >> modified version with step one completed, so copied the version > > >> with step one completed to your clipboard and paste it > > >> underneath. Now you have the original equation, and you have two copies of step one. > > >> Modified the second copy of step one based on what you plan to do > > >> in > step two. > > >> Continue this method until you have finished the problem. With a > > >> braille keyboard, you should be able to type as fast as someone > > >> can speak and even faster. If you cannot or a braille keyboard is > > >> not an option, you can record what is being said with a phone or > > >> other recording device and you can then go back over it. Another > > >> thing you can do is request things in electronic format. Mini > > >> American professors do not know how to create accessible math > > >> when it is really very easy as you described. You do not have to > > >> know any markup languages. You can create accessible math just by > > >> using your computer keyboard, and in many cases, if you are a > > >> computer science student, your math is in the perfect format to > > >> just paste right over into your > > ide. > > >> Maybe > > >> Indian professors would be better at creating accessible. If not, > > >> you might be able to find someone who can do it. This will be > > >> especially easy if you can find some funding. I was not lucky in > > >> this regard because other than professors, I never found a > > >> dedicated person who knew how to produce accessible math. I > > >> finally got to a position where I could no longer receive > > >> accessible math because I moved on to a four-year university > > >> where the professors did not know how to produce it. It is very > > >> ironic that when I started out at a two year university, the > > >> professors did know how to produce it. I approach programmers, > > >> professors, deans, and > department head. > > >> No one actually knew how including the programmers who produce > > >> accessible math every day. I finally had to end up listening to > > >> my math on recordings and writing everything down. It was very > > >> difficult. If you want to get math in braille, there is software > > >> that can do it called Duxberry. Ironically, my university > > >> actually had this software, but no one knew how to use it > > >> including the people who worked at disability services. Getting > > >> it for yourself will not be helpful. If you get this software, > > >> you will need someone who can modify the equations for you. If > > >> your professor has files that were generated from a markup > > >> language, you could try asking for those source files. Even if > > >> you do not know the markup language, math is written very > > >> similarly when you are programming computers, so you could probably pick up how to read it. > > >> Unfortunately, my professors used PDFs that they got from other > > >> sources or pictures of hand written documents so I could not do > > >> this. People will try to tell you that Matt cannot be produced > > >> excessively on the computer. This simply is not true. Every > > >> mathematical formula, function, and number known to humankind can > > >> be programmed into a computer using a text based programming > > >> language. Also, many of these functions and formulas can be put > > >> into XL. If you can put these formulas into XL, then you can > > >> produce them accessibly in a word document. If someone is trying > > >> to tell you that they can't, then just tell them to put it in a > spreadsheet, press F2 on the cells, and read the formulas that way. > > >> XL is very good because you can use it to organize data, you can > > >> use it as a calculator, and you can use it to create tables and > graphs. > > >> You can put these documents in your dropbox and you can get the > > >> pictures of the graphs. > > >> You can then import these pictures into the voice app on your > > >> phone and you can listen to them. If you are going to listen to > > >> pie charts, to make it easier on yourself to read, use the 3-D > > >> exploding pie charts. This may sound counterintuitive, but when > > >> you listen to them, there is a bit more separation between each piece. > > >> I don't know how you would get training to listen to grass. I > > >> just automatically was born knowing how to do it. No one ever taught me. > > >> I could always listen to graphs very easily and I could never > > >> read > tactile graphics. > > >> There is also a program called math tracks where you can create > > >> audio graphs by entering in equations.However, it is really best > > >> to have both the equation and the data because what if you > > >> created a graph using any equation, and you need to make some > > >> changes to the > data? > > >> Well, you don't have the data, so what are you going to do? You > > >> could probably generate the data from the equation in some cases, > > >> but that will take forever. I like to listen to a graph and have > > >> the spreadsheet in front of me at the same time. There is also a > > >> blind > > chemist named Dr. > > >> sapalo. I'm not sure how to spell his name. I have his card > > >> somewhere but I just have to find it. I really wish people would > > >> start using those barcode Cards where I can scan the contact > > >> information into my phone, but I only know one person who uses > > >> those. Anyways, You may want to get in touch with him. He has all > > >> of these probes. They do all different things. They connect to a > > >> computer and they can measure chemical reactions and make graphs > > >> and do all this stuff depending on what probe you use. For > > >> example, you could use one probe to graph the color changes that > > >> occur during > an experiment. > > >> You could use another probe to track temperature changes like ice > > melting. > > >> I don't really do chemistry, but if I did, I imagine I would want > > >> this thing, but I can't remember what it is called. But he is > > >> actually a chemistry professor at a university. He is totally > > >> blind and he teaches classes and runs labs and does all sorts of things. > > >> There are plenty of blind computer scientists, but he struck my > > >> interest in particular because I have not heard of mini blind > > >> chemists. He also had some good advice for 3-D printing that > > >> would work in the United States, but I am not sure if it would > > >> work in India. If possible though, you may want to get some 3-D > > >> models printed. Another thing is that you want to stay > > >> consistent. You want to make sure that you are doing things in > > >> the classroom the same way you will do them during testing. In my > > >> chemistry class, I did not have access to a lot of 3-D models, > > >> but for testing purposes, they made me a 3-D model. > > >> This really was not fair because it was made out of a lot of cups > > >> and straws. I did not know what it was, and it is not fair to use > > >> models for testing purposes that you did not use in the classroom > > >> or to use a different method for testing purposes that you did > > >> not use in the classroom because this will skew the results. If > > >> you use certain accommodations in the classroom, insist on the > > >> same accommodations for testing. > > >> > > >> Sabra Ewing > > >> > > >> On May 1, 2018, at 5:22 PM, Bhavya shah via BlindMath < > > >> blindmath@...> wrote: > > >> > > >> Dear all, > > >> > > >> I am Bhavya Shah, a totally blind 16-year-old student from > > >> Mumbai, India. Having just completed my tenth grade with the same > > >> Mathematics and Science syllabus as my sighted peers in a > > >> mainstream school, I intend to take up the Science stream > > >> according to the Indian education system for Classes 11 and 12 > > >> with the subject combination of > > >> Physics+Chemistry+Mathematics, and probably take up something > > >> Physics+Chemistry+along > > >> the lines of Computer Science for my undergraduate studies after > > >> that (although I shouldn’t overly worry about about finalizing > > >> that for now, I suppose). Additionally, I shall be enrolling into > > >> coaching for a very competitive pan-India engineering entrance > > >> examination over the next two years where I will be delving into > > >> particularly advanced topics in to the three afore-mentioned subjects. > > >> > > >> Till Class 10, I managed an overwhelming chunk of Math either > > >> orally or mentally, and from what I have been informed, have > > >> dealt with relatively very simple organic structures, general > > >> numericals and chemical equations which I have been handling > > >> mostly via plain > text. > > >> It has become increasingly clear to me that this makeshift method > > >> will be extremely inefficient and consequently infeasible for the > > >> kind of syllabus I am transitioning to. Hence, I am looking for > > >> different techniques, tools or methods of typing Math and Science > > >> that will allow me to be as rapid a Math&Science typist as I am > > >> of the English language (at its peak, my fingers have achieved > > >> about > > >> 100 > > >> WPM) so that I can cope with the daily rigor this coaching demands. > > >> I need to be able to type mathematical and scientific content > > >> accurately and swiftly not necessarily such that it is visually > > >> readable by a sighted professor but more so for my own reference, > > >> understanding and purposes of review and revision. > > >> > > >> So far, I am versed only with two options – ASCII Math, where I > > >> would just type Math and Science using standard symbols present > > >> on any keyboard such as /, *, ^ and so on to denote different > > >> things (perhaps > > >> (x+2)/x-1)) in chiefly plain text, or type things in LaTeX using > > >> MathType ($\frac{x+2}{x-1}$) and employ Math Player and NVDA to > > >> read it. From my basic understanding of this and limited past > > >> experience with each of these methods, the former sounds much > > >> faster and more efficient to me, but I am open to evidence and > > >> experiences suggesting otherwise. There are various other Math > > >> typing tools I have heard about over the years such as Infty > > >> Reader and Lean Math, but have never adequately researched them > > >> let alone > used them to any extent. > > >> Any information or instructional material on these and other > > >> potential alternatives you would recommend would be of great help too. > > >> > > >> I would truly appreciate any assistance on different strategies > > >> you may have used to math your sighted counterparts’ speed in > > >> terms of writing and solving mathematical and scientific > > >> material, questions and problem sets. > > >> > > >> Thanks. > > >> > > >> -- > > >> Best Regards > > >> Bhavya Shah > > >> > > >> Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons: > > >> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2 > > >> Fbhavyashah125.wordpress.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a > > >> 3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C63 > > >> 6610215333873395&sdata=k594wAS4lRAm1M1llFxPaseNm%2Fh5l9rLMCCJiqSY > > >> ruA%3D&reserved=0 > > >> > > >> Contacting Me > > >> E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@... > > >> LinkedIn: > > >> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2 > > >> Fwww.linkedin.com%2Fin%2Fbhavyashah125%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1 > > >> aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C > > >> 1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=uJJZGJ9RwXu7UYppKRvu%2B%2FzFiMHl > > >> x6azouEDc5rGd%2Bs%3D&reserved=0 > > >> Twitter: @BhavyaShah125 > > >> Skype: bhavya.09 > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> BlindMath mailing list > > >> BlindMath@... > > >> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2F > > >> nfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindmath_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C > > >> 01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aa > > >> aaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=DQVDDrqxxXNWtfLfy5B > > >> 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BlindMath@... > > >> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2F > > >> nfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindmath_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C > > >> 01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aa > > >> aaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=DQVDDrqxxXNWtfLfy5B > > >> ahpa3gws7gP%2B0HkB4gHeKxMM%3D&reserved=0 > > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > > >> for > > >> BlindMath: > > >> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2F > > >> nfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindmath_nfbnet.org%2Fjaquis%25 > > >> 40mac&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e > > >> 7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=%2B > > >> jsgQIa7YSrEnKYVhGCVV9Wy6QBuWE19JgJ8mDPnlbk%3D&reserved=0 > > >> .c om BlindMath Gems can be found at > > >> <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2 > > >> Fwww.blindscience.org%2Fb&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c1730 > > >> 8d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C63661021 > > >> 5333873395&sdata=4ThJBC1p8qyXQ%2BleUxbV3f3ahbqkxY7xgJrZS%2FNQViw% > > >> 3D&reserved=0 > > >> lindmath-gems-home> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> BlindMath mailing list > > >> BlindMath@... > > >> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2F > > >> nfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindmath_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C > > >> 01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aa > > >> aaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=DQVDDrqxxXNWtfLfy5B > > >> ahpa3gws7gP%2B0HkB4gHeKxMM%3D&reserved=0 > > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > > >> for > > >> BlindMath: > > >> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2F > > >> nfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindmath_nfbnet.org%2Fbrand&dat > > >> a=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640a > > >> fb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=lGz3v%2FuLN1 > > >> TyCOulT4I8Ey0uyKk4R%2F14UhXec4OjqGQ%3D&reserved=0 > > >> onkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > >> BlindMath Gems can be found at > > >> <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2 > > >> Fwww.blindscience.org%2Fb&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c1730 > > >> 8d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C63661021 > > >> 5333873395&sdata=4ThJBC1p8qyXQ%2BleUxbV3f3ahbqkxY7xgJrZS%2FNQViw% > > >> 3D&reserved=0 > > >> lindmath-gems-home> > > >> > > > _______________________________________________ > > > BlindMath mailing list > > > BlindMath@... > > > https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fn > > > fbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindmath_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01 > > > %7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaa > > > aaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=DQVDDrqxxXNWtfLfy5Bahpa > > > 3gws7gP%2B0HkB4gHeKxMM%3D&reserved=0 > > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > > > for > > > BlindMath: > > > https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fn > > > fbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindmath_nfbnet.org%2Fbhavya.shah > > > 12&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9 > > > f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=k07nfOBn > > > 1BybiBx1z0huGkAC0iOCj6Z5iPz6tjrg4xg%3D&reserved=0 > > > 5% > > > 40gmail.com > > > BlindMath Gems can be found at > > > <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2F > > > www.blindscience.org%2Fblindmath-gems-home&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1 > > > aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1 > > > %7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=2gI3Dwgnx9uzainRfdQuYq%2FoYHc%2Fyz > > > w7C4I6CJ3nVdg%3D&reserved=0> > > > > > > > > > -- > > Best Regards > > Bhavya 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found at > > <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fww > > w.blindscience.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e > > 30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395 > > &sdata=qUEYw07%2FQN4%2FnKI%2FtveD8D8rjZBKeEf18wyiCl1EIg4%3D&reserved > > =0 > > blindmath-gems-home> > > > _______________________________________________ > BlindMath mailing list > BlindMath@... > https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbne > t.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindmath_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0 > ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1% > 7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=DQVDDrqxxXNWtfLfy5Bahpa3gws7gP%2B0HkB4g > HeKxMM%3D&reserved=0 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for > BlindMath: > https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbne > t.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindmath_nfbnet.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C > 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your account info for > BlindMath: > https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbne > t.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindmath_nfbnet.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C > b0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C > 1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=O2nvGiDxdCtNzBMwueaF62vPSRlJ%2FWhwZgX > UEDV5X%2BI%3D&reserved=0 > brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > BlindMath Gems can be found at > <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww. > blindscience.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb > %7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata > =qUEYw07%2FQN4%2FnKI%2FtveD8D8rjZBKeEf18wyiCl1EIg4%3D&reserved=0 > blindmath-gems-home> > _______________________________________________ BlindMath mailing list BlindMath@... https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindmath_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=DQVDDrqxxXNWtfLfy5Bahpa3gws7gP%2B0HkB4gHeKxMM%3D&reserved=0 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindMath: https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindmath_nfbnet.org%2Fljmaher03%2540outlook.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=50Uy5DX8lrjihy%2BFRb%2B6P6pXz4oHyuo0CXu%2BYEmHoG8%3D&reserved=0 BlindMath Gems can be found at <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.blindscience.org%2Fblindmath-gems-home&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=2gI3Dwgnx9uzainRfdQuYq%2FoYHc%2Fyzw7C4I6CJ3nVdg%3D&reserved=0> Re: Reading more lines in the windows console output (command prompt)? Hello, I am running a server and I don't think a simple > works on those processes, but I'll try. The other option is to try and catch the errors, but I need to figure out how to do that. Thanks, On Fri, May 4, 2018 at 7:54 AM, Dan Beaver wrote: Why not enter your command and then follow it on the same line with the greater-than symbol and a file name. This would allow you to then open that file and review the info there with no restrictions. this is of course assuming you are using a command line method of executing the program you need the info from. Dan Beaver On 5/4/2018 10:44 AM, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: Hello, I'm programming in NodeJS and the error messages I'm getting are very long. One trace is so long I can't see the top in my console window. I increased the buffer size, but it didn't help. I have Virtual Review, but it also stops at a point. Does anyone know how to review these past messages or scroll the windows console? Thank you, Re: Long Link Names Make Reading Difficult hi gene. i have this problem too! in firefox, long links are covered multiple links and i cant distinguish if it is one link in several links or they are several links. as you know i use firefox, when i had jaws, jaws announced long links in only one line, so i did not have this problem. i also set Maximum number of characters on one line 200 as you suggested me in the previous questions, but unfortunately it only works for me in usual text not in the links! what should i do to nvda behaves like jaws in this regard? On 5/4/18, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote: It appears that the links aren't being read correctly. They are evidently links that should just be read as text as links on web pages are reead. This sounds like just one more problem related to Outlook, which is the subject of far more messages I see describing problems than any other popular Windows e-mail program among blind people. It may be that the NVDA developers, if theis is a general problem, will address it. Unless you need Outlook for some reason, it would be a good idea to try firefox or Windows Live Mail. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Louis Maher Sent: Friday, May 04, 2018 10:16 AM To: NVDA Discussion List (nvda@nvda.groups.io) Subject: [nvda] Long Link Names Make Reading Difficult Hello, Lately I have been encountering very long links which make reading difficult, especially in e-mails. The links span several lines, and are difficult to arrow past. Also, some of the text is either at the beginning or end of these long links and are difficult to separate from the long links. I am using Outlook 2016. JAWS seems to be able to confine the links to one line; also, JAWS seems to be able to eliminate reading blank lines when there are several blank lines between paragraphs. Are there any NVDA settings which can confine the links to one line and eliminate reading multiple blank lines in Outlook 2016? Thanks. Regards Louis Maher Phone: 713-444-7838 E-mail ljmaher03@... -----Original Message----- From: BlindMath <blindmath-bounces@...> On Behalf Of Brandon Keith Biggs via BlindMath Sent: Friday, May 4, 2018 4:00 AM To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics <blindmath@...> Cc: Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs@...> Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Typing Math and Science Quickly and Understandably Hello, That article was very good thank you! I would like to get an overview of how these different tools for producing math output work. Here is what I understand so far, please correct me where I'm wrong: Every single method of producing inclusive math documents requires the LaTeX [syntax.]( https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikibooks.org%2Fwiki%2FLaTeX%2FMathematics&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=M6mF7uM0lfS6%2F0AGDTSnKiOH6eohNdBk9Q87qmkG%2BeY%3D&reserved=0) The only difference is in the editor and compiler. There are four ways of producing math content on the computer: F1. (note I couldn't install the 30 day trial to test this out as the accept license screen was not accessible) Using Microsoft Word or the editor with [Mathtype.]( https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dessci.com%2Fen%2Fproducts%2Fmathtype%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=M0vgsFeq6JmKX%2FakP4HrdQEIIiKbDjhCt0Nyc0NYLMA%3D&reserved=0) This allows you to have a large symbol list to choose from rather than needing to type LaTeX, although you can type LaTeX if you wish. This has more immediate feedback as users are able to read their equations in MathML instantly rather than waiting to compile. This allows people to edit math in Word which is generally a familiar environment. The downside is the program costs around$50 a year and you don't get the powerful abilities such as
using BibTX, for writing papers. For math though, this works just fine. So
pros are familiar environment in Word, WYSIWYG symbol list and editing, and
access to the tools word has, such as spellcheck. Cons are the cost, lack of
external tools such as BibTX, and the need for two proprietary
applications.

2. Using [pandoc](
https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpandoc.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=HJAQJf7m%2BmPlkNayTPwtyyR1z9JH6WKe7AkQIQ%2Bcxcs%3D&reserved=0)
to compile either pure LaTeX or Markdown combined with LaTeX. Pros are the
vast number of formats one can export to, the ability to type in both LaTeX
and Markdown, completely open source, and access to tools such as BibTX. The
cons are the need for one to use the command line, the requirement to type
LaTeX math, and the need for one to understand how text editors and file
types work.

3. Using [RMarkdown](
https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Frmarkdown.rstudio.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=hxNa6p%2F0hZZtm11eRL7OJx0w%2BOg0nQLGSY5O4Ur%2B9tk%3D&reserved=0)
Is basically for programmers to insert output from programs (such as python
or R scripts) into a document. That way you don't need to insert screenshots
or type the output of the program every time you compile. Other than that it
is pandoc.
Pros are the ability to call code from your Markdown file, massive number of
output file formats, completely open source, and the ability to use tools
such as BibTX. Cons are that one needs to use Markdown, the required use of
the command line, required use of LaTeX math, and the need to understand
editors and file types.

4. Using [MiKTeX](
https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmiktex.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=WGU1%2FjVwaeazi1k%2FXMx0apWAJVHqRfNEz22bD0Kb41I%3D&reserved=0)
with either a text editor or an IDE like [TEXnicCenter.](
https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.texniccenter.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=kdVMzPSILszjz0SrIcIkCj48hXInScKcrL6HOMxcDP8%3D&reserved=0)

Pros are that everything is integrated so no knowledge of the command line
is needed, ability to export in a wide range of formats, and ability to use
tools like BibTX. Cons are the configuration options if one wishes to do
anything other than the default, the need to type in pure LaTeX, and
exclusive to Windows (although there are text editors and IDEs other than
TeXnicCenter that can be used on other operating systems).

From what I have generally seen, Word is preferred by new users or users who
like to use word, pandoc is preferred by users who are intermediate or above
and who are not afraid of the command line, RMarkdown is used by programmers
and data annalists who run code, and TeXnicCenter is used by people who want
a simple plug and play tool for conversion between LaTeX and other formats.
They each have their different affordances and should be used accordingly.

Thanks,

Brandon Keith Biggs
<https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fbrandonkeithbiggs.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=ec1B3YlMqkt0xuFNrcj9QMnQmUUjaX%2BWpRuqA74U%2F8E%3D&reserved=0>

On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 4:09 PM, Godfrey, Jonathan via BlindMath <
blindmath@...> wrote:

Hi Brandon,

Take out all the backslashes in the example you sent through that
aren't part of a mathematical expression. White space does all that is
needed for line breaks, indenting etc. in markdown documents.

You can't change the cumbersome nature of the LaTeX content for
equations, but I suggest using *x* instead of the more common $x$
within paragraphs because the font is so similar that it doesn't
matter to the sighted audience but the conversion to italics from the
stars is not spoken by a screen reader while the conversion to math
mode from use of dollars is announced. This suggestion does break the
rules for semantic correctness, but the distraction that is caused by
the screen reader telling me x was math content can often detract from
the overall reading experience of the final document especially in
sentences where there are plenty of elements using simple mathematical
notation. (You can't do this for super or subscripts so easily, or if the
element needs a {} construct for example.

One of the major pluses for encouraging my colleagues and anyone else
preparing material that might be read by a blind person is that the
author does not have to think about accessibility during document
preparation. The access is built in so often because markdown forces
an author to at least know they didn't add an alt tag for a graphic
because they left some brackets empty. They often don't know what
they've done (positive or
negative) in reality so occasionally, some helpful reminders are
required.
<smiles> Markdown won't stop people choosing daft text for hyperlinks
such as "here" but that's a societal issue not a mathematical one.

Compare the simplicity of markdown to the pain to get an alt tag
added to a graphic inserted into a LaTeX document. Yes it is possible,
but it requires some additional work by the author if the document is
to be born accessible or some post hoc editing by a human to build in
that access. I can do the former, but as a blind person the latter
option is annoying in HTML and impossible if the output file is in pdf.

As it happens, I did write up some starting suggestions for markdown
documents which are tailored to people using the R variant of markdown.
Head to
https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fr-re
sources.massey.ac.nz%2FRmarkdown%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3
c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C63661021
5333873395&sdata=QQh72p%2Ba6PrSSD3lwvRPIiF8FeQz%2BkqUUQzpV118Aac%3D&re
served=0

HTH
Jonathan

-----Original Message-----
From: BlindMath <blindmath-bounces@...> On Behalf Of Brandon
Keith Biggs via BlindMath
Sent: Friday, 4 May 2018 10:24 a.m.
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics <
blindmath@...>
Cc: Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs@...>
Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Typing Math and Science Quickly and
Understandably

Hello Jonathan,
Do you have something that explains the least cumbersome syntax for
Markdown / LaTeX?
Thanks,

Brandon Keith Biggs
<https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fbran
donkeithbiggs.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30f
b%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdat
a=ec1B3YlMqkt0xuFNrcj9QMnQmUUjaX%2BWpRuqA74U%2F8E%3D&reserved=0>

On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 2:11 PM, Godfrey, Jonathan via BlindMath <
blindmath@...> wrote:

Hello,

You are correct that use of LaTeX within a markdown document leads
to the same outcome as the workflow you have used in MS Word with
MathType. I don't think you should suddenly change workflow for
improved access to the mathematical content. There are other reasons
why you should get use of pandoc into your toolbox though.

I do think Brandon's example is more cumbersome than it needed to be.
I use markdown almost daily, and I only ever put a \ to get
mathematical content. Forever listening to backslash from any screen
reader is annoying, slows me down, and often presents a distraction.
This was a leading reason for reducing my use of full-blown LaTeX.

I would urge you to make use of the LEAN editor mentioned in this
thread to enhance your workflow. The feature of LEAN I use most is
the addition of tags to the math content so that you do not need to
go backwards and forwards into LaTeX mode to read the content, and
you don't have to use the specific combination of tools (screen
reader + math player). LEAN offers an alternative and I am not
suggesting it as a replacement. Having options is power, because it puts
you in control.

I do think you need to enhance what you do a little to get the best
of what you have now before you embark on all manner of options. I
would also suggest to you that the accuracy aspect of your criticism
of LaTeX (while
true) is also true for practically every tool you will use, and is
also true for the scientific content you will be working with. I
think your initial message to this thread said you were considering
a computer science major; the programming languages you use will
have limited flexibility to deal with the human inaccuracies that
even the best among us is prone to create. For me, it is the ability
to find and correct these inaccuracies that tells me how truly
accessible a solution is for me. Markdown is the solution that works
best for me
today; it is not the only solution I use.

My final point is about use of a personal system. I know plenty of
blind people who have little shorthand things we write. The problem
is that they are individual and can't be shared. The most likely
person you will want to share your work with is your future-self.
Will you recall the shorthand you use today in ten years' time?

Cheers,
Jonathan

-----Original Message-----
From: BlindMath <blindmath-bounces@...> On Behalf Of Bhavya
shah via BlindMath
Sent: Friday, 4 May 2018 8:05 a.m.
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics <
blindmath@...>
Cc: Bhavya shah <bhavya.shah125@...>
Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Typing Math and Science Quickly and
Understandably

Hi Brandon,

In essence, this method is very similar to how I used to use LaTeX
of MathType to generate Math ML content that was visually readible
and screen reader firnedly with the help of NVDA and Math Player.
However, my only two concerns are that using LaTeX or any other
standardized Math code to type would almost invariably mean (1)
slightly longer and stricter syntax that would need to be
mandatorily followed, and (2) there are several reasons, some of
which include lack of customization in pronunciation and excessive
pausing, why I found reading Math ML with the help of Math Player
and NVDA somewhat cumbersome in my past experiences. If I come to
think of it, it is quite certain that at some point in time, either
for typing my own Math&Science or for reading my transcribed course
material, I will need to deal with Math ML using Math Player and
NVDA, so in a day at most, I will be retrying Math ML and sharing
some of the more significant concerns and issues I
have with interacting with Math ML.

Kindly let me know if my present understanding of the method you
described that this is just Pandoc instead of MathType and
commandline instead of Word for using LaTeX to generate Math ML
content is
fundamentally incorrect.

Thanks.

On 5/3/18, Brandon Keith Biggs via BlindMath <blindmath@...>
wrote:
Hello,
Markdown with LaTeX is perfect for you. Here is an example that
Lukasz (from this list wrote):

## Parametric Forms

*transcriber: system of two equations, each one has an extra
information after comma* \ $x = t^2 -2t$, $dx = 2t-2$ \ $y= t+1$,
minimum at $t=1$ \
*transcriber: end of the system*

For window:
\
$t$ from $[-2,4]$, $t$ step $= 0.1$ \ $x$ from $[-1,10]$ \ $y$
from $[-1,5]$

# something easier

$3x + y = 10$
\
$9 * 5 = 45$
\
Fractions
\
$\frac{1}{2} + \frac{1}{2} = 1$

This converts perfectly to MathML using pandoc:
https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2F
pandoc.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7
C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sda
ta=HJAQJf7m%2BmPlkNayTPwtyyR1z9JH6WKe7AkQIQ%2Bcxcs%3D&reserved=0

You install pandoc, open a command line where you have the math
content and
type:

pandoc my_math_file.md --mathml -s -o my_html_output_file.html

You can give your professor the html file and they can read it in
print just fine. If you have a Braille display, the MathML shows
up just fine and it is also read by the screen reader. NVDA
requires Math player (see the user guide under reading math
content for more
info).
Thanks,

Brandon Keith Biggs
<https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2F
brandonkeithbiggs.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d
5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C63661021533
3873395&sdata=ec1B3YlMqkt0xuFNrcj9QMnQmUUjaX%2BWpRuqA74U%2F8E%3D&r
eserved=0>

On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 11:00 AM, Sean Tikkun via BlindMath <
blindmath@...> wrote:

Bhavya Shah,

I am assembling a team to generate 3D models to assist in
learning. The team leaders are a former math teacher fluent in
Braille (me) and a Fabrication lab director that teaches
Biological and Chemical Sciences at the University level. If you
have access to 3D printing I would love to know what you may
need. Files are easy to send. If not, perhaps there is a
fabrication lab at a university in Mumbai that would be interested in
some collaboration?
Feel free to reach out. stikkun@....

Sean Tikkun
Apple Distinguished Educator
class of 2007

On May 01, 2018, at 08:51 PM, Sabra Ewing via BlindMath <
blindmath@...> wrote:

I typed most of my math using the first method. You might be able
to type more quickly if you had a braille keyboard. Also note
that you can use parentheses and brackets. The Pearce in equation
editor can produce math in a visual format. It is free. The
braille note touch can do this as well although it is very
expensive. I would definitely say to use a keyboard.
Do
not type on your phone as I am doing now because it is much slower.
Another
thing you can do is use copy and paste. You do not have to type
everything from scratch. You can copy previous steps to your
clipboard, paste them, and then modify them to create your future
steps. Like for example, you might write a chemical equation that
is not balanced. Paste this equation underneath it so you have
two copies of the same equation. Then, take the first step toward
balancing that equation and make those changes to your second copy.
Now you have your equation and underneath it, you have the
modified version with step one completed, so copied the version
with step one completed to your clipboard and paste it
underneath. Now you have the original equation, and you have two
copies of step one.
Modified the second copy of step one based on what you plan to do
in
step two.
Continue this method until you have finished the problem. With a
braille keyboard, you should be able to type as fast as someone
can speak and even faster. If you cannot or a braille keyboard is
not an option, you can record what is being said with a phone or
other recording device and you can then go back over it. Another
thing you can do is request things in electronic format. Mini
American professors do not know how to create accessible math
when it is really very easy as you described. You do not have to
know any markup languages. You can create accessible math just by
using your computer keyboard, and in many cases, if you are a
computer science student, your math is in the perfect format to
just paste right over into your
ide.
Maybe
Indian professors would be better at creating accessible. If not,
you might be able to find someone who can do it. This will be
especially easy if you can find some funding. I was not lucky in
this regard because other than professors, I never found a
dedicated person who knew how to produce accessible math. I
finally got to a position where I could no longer receive
accessible math because I moved on to a four-year university
where the professors did not know how to produce it. It is very
ironic that when I started out at a two year university, the
professors did know how to produce it. I approach programmers,
professors, deans, and
department head.
No one actually knew how including the programmers who produce
accessible math every day. I finally had to end up listening to
my math on recordings and writing everything down. It was very
difficult. If you want to get math in braille, there is software
that can do it called Duxberry. Ironically, my university
actually had this software, but no one knew how to use it
including the people who worked at disability services. Getting
it for yourself will not be helpful. If you get this software,
you will need someone who can modify the equations for you. If
your professor has files that were generated from a markup
language, you could try asking for those source files. Even if
you do not know the markup language, math is written very
similarly when you are programming computers, so you could probably
pick up how to read it.
Unfortunately, my professors used PDFs that they got from other
sources or pictures of hand written documents so I could not do
this. People will try to tell you that Matt cannot be produced
excessively on the computer. This simply is not true. Every
mathematical formula, function, and number known to humankind can
be programmed into a computer using a text based programming
language. Also, many of these functions and formulas can be put
into XL. If you can put these formulas into XL, then you can
produce them accessibly in a word document. If someone is trying
to tell you that they can't, then just tell them to put it in a
spreadsheet, press F2 on the cells, and read the formulas that way.
XL is very good because you can use it to organize data, you can
use it as a calculator, and you can use it to create tables and
graphs.
You can put these documents in your dropbox and you can get the
pictures of the graphs.
You can then import these pictures into the voice app on your
phone and you can listen to them. If you are going to listen to
pie charts, to make it easier on yourself to read, use the 3-D
exploding pie charts. This may sound counterintuitive, but when
you listen to them, there is a bit more separation between each
piece.
I don't know how you would get training to listen to grass. I
just automatically was born knowing how to do it. No one ever taught
me.
I could always listen to graphs very easily and I could never
read
tactile graphics.
There is also a program called math tracks where you can create
audio graphs by entering in equations.However, it is really best
to have both the equation and the data because what if you
created a graph using any equation, and you need to make some
changes to the
data?
Well, you don't have the data, so what are you going to do? You
could probably generate the data from the equation in some cases,
but that will take forever. I like to listen to a graph and have
the spreadsheet in front of me at the same time. There is also a
blind
chemist named Dr.
sapalo. I'm not sure how to spell his name. I have his card
somewhere but I just have to find it. I really wish people would
start using those barcode Cards where I can scan the contact
information into my phone, but I only know one person who uses
those. Anyways, You may want to get in touch with him. He has all
of these probes. They do all different things. They connect to a
computer and they can measure chemical reactions and make graphs
and do all this stuff depending on what probe you use. For
example, you could use one probe to graph the color changes that
occur during
an experiment.
You could use another probe to track temperature changes like ice
melting.
I don't really do chemistry, but if I did, I imagine I would want
this thing, but I can't remember what it is called. But he is
actually a chemistry professor at a university. He is totally
blind and he teaches classes and runs labs and does all sorts of
things.
There are plenty of blind computer scientists, but he struck my
interest in particular because I have not heard of mini blind
chemists. He also had some good advice for 3-D printing that
would work in the United States, but I am not sure if it would
work in India. If possible though, you may want to get some 3-D
models printed. Another thing is that you want to stay
consistent. You want to make sure that you are doing things in
the classroom the same way you will do them during testing. In my
chemistry class, I did not have access to a lot of 3-D models,
but for testing purposes, they made me a 3-D model.
This really was not fair because it was made out of a lot of cups
and straws. I did not know what it was, and it is not fair to use
models for testing purposes that you did not use in the classroom
or to use a different method for testing purposes that you did
not use in the classroom because this will skew the results. If
you use certain accommodations in the classroom, insist on the
same accommodations for testing.

Sabra Ewing

On May 1, 2018, at 5:22 PM, Bhavya shah via BlindMath <
blindmath@...> wrote:

Dear all,

I am Bhavya Shah, a totally blind 16-year-old student from
Mumbai, India. Having just completed my tenth grade with the same
Mathematics and Science syllabus as my sighted peers in a
mainstream school, I intend to take up the Science stream
according to the Indian education system for Classes 11 and 12
with the subject combination of
Physics+Chemistry+Mathematics, and probably take up something
Physics+Chemistry+along
the lines of Computer Science for my undergraduate studies after
that (although I shouldn’t overly worry about about finalizing
that for now, I suppose). Additionally, I shall be enrolling into
coaching for a very competitive pan-India engineering entrance
examination over the next two years where I will be delving into
particularly advanced topics in to the three afore-mentioned
subjects.

Till Class 10, I managed an overwhelming chunk of Math either
orally or mentally, and from what I have been informed, have
dealt with relatively very simple organic structures, general
numericals and chemical equations which I have been handling
mostly via plain
text.
It has become increasingly clear to me that this makeshift method
will be extremely inefficient and consequently infeasible for the
kind of syllabus I am transitioning to. Hence, I am looking for
different techniques, tools or methods of typing Math and Science
that will allow me to be as rapid a Math&Science typist as I am
of the English language (at its peak, my fingers have achieved
about
100
WPM) so that I can cope with the daily rigor this coaching demands.
I need to be able to type mathematical and scientific content
accurately and swiftly not necessarily such that it is visually
readable by a sighted professor but more so for my own reference,
understanding and purposes of review and revision.

So far, I am versed only with two options – ASCII Math, where I
would just type Math and Science using standard symbols present
on any keyboard such as /, *, ^ and so on to denote different
things (perhaps
(x+2)/x-1)) in chiefly plain text, or type things in LaTeX using
MathType ($\frac{x+2}{x-1}$) and employ Math Player and NVDA to
read it. From my basic understanding of this and limited past
experience with each of these methods, the former sounds much
faster and more efficient to me, but I am open to evidence and
experiences suggesting otherwise. There are various other Math
typing tools I have heard about over the years such as Infty
Reader and Lean Math, but have never adequately researched them
let alone
used them to any extent.
Any information or instructional material on these and other
potential alternatives you would recommend would be of great help
too.

I would truly appreciate any assistance on different strategies
you may have used to math your sighted counterparts’ speed in
terms of writing and solving mathematical and scientific
material, questions and problem sets.

Thanks.

--
Best Regards
Bhavya Shah

Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons:
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--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali

Re: Long Link Names Make Reading Difficult

Gene

Also, are you reading messages as plain text or as HTML?  If you read them as plain text, some links won't read properly.

Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Friday, May 04, 2018 10:35 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Long Link Names Make Reading Difficult

It appears that the links aren't being read correctly.  They are evidently links that should just be read as text as links on web pages are reead.

This sounds like just one more problem related to Outlook, which is the subject of far more messages I see describing problems than any other popular Windows e-mail program among blind people.

It may be that the NVDA developers, if theis is a general problem, will address it.  Unless you need Outlook for some reason, it would be a good idea to try firefox or Windows Live Mail.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, May 04, 2018 10:16 AM
Subject: [nvda] Long Link Names Make Reading Difficult

Hello,

Lately I have been encountering very long links which make reading difficult, especially in e-mails.  The links span several lines, and are difficult to arrow past.  Also, some of the text is either at the beginning or end of these long links and are difficult to separate from the long links.  I am using Outlook 2016.

JAWS seems to be able to confine the links to one line; also, JAWS seems to be able to eliminate reading blank lines when there are several blank lines between paragraphs.

Are there any NVDA settings which can confine the links to one line and eliminate reading multiple blank lines in Outlook 2016?

Thanks.

Regards
Louis Maher
Phone: 713-444-7838
E-mail ljmaher03@...

-----Original Message-----
From: BlindMath <blindmath-bounces@...> On Behalf Of Brandon Keith Biggs via BlindMath
Sent: Friday, May 4, 2018 4:00 AM
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics <blindmath@...>
Cc: Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs@...>
Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Typing Math and Science Quickly and Understandably

Hello,

That article was very good thank you!

I would like to get an overview of how these different tools for producing math output work. Here is what I understand so far, please correct me where I'm wrong:

Every single method of producing inclusive math documents requires the LaTeX [syntax.]( https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikibooks.org%2Fwiki%2FLaTeX%2FMathematics&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=M6mF7uM0lfS6%2F0AGDTSnKiOH6eohNdBk9Q87qmkG%2BeY%3D&reserved=0)

The only difference is in the editor and compiler.

There are four ways of producing math content on the computer:

F1. (note I couldn't install the 30 day trial to test this out as the accept license screen was not accessible) Using Microsoft Word or the editor with [Mathtype.]( https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dessci.com%2Fen%2Fproducts%2Fmathtype%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=M0vgsFeq6JmKX%2FakP4HrdQEIIiKbDjhCt0Nyc0NYLMA%3D&reserved=0) This allows you to have a large symbol list to choose from rather than needing to type LaTeX, although you can type LaTeX if you wish. This has more immediate feedback as users are able to read their equations in MathML instantly rather than waiting to compile. This allows people to edit math in Word which is generally a familiar environment. The downside is the program costs around $50 a year and you don't get the powerful abilities such as using BibTX, for writing papers. For math though, this works just fine. So pros are familiar environment in Word, WYSIWYG symbol list and editing, and access to the tools word has, such as spellcheck. Cons are the cost, lack of external tools such as BibTX, and the need for two proprietary applications. 2. Using [pandoc]( https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpandoc.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=HJAQJf7m%2BmPlkNayTPwtyyR1z9JH6WKe7AkQIQ%2Bcxcs%3D&reserved=0) to compile either pure LaTeX or Markdown combined with LaTeX. Pros are the vast number of formats one can export to, the ability to type in both LaTeX and Markdown, completely open source, and access to tools such as BibTX. The cons are the need for one to use the command line, the requirement to type LaTeX math, and the need for one to understand how text editors and file types work. 3. Using [RMarkdown]( https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Frmarkdown.rstudio.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=hxNa6p%2F0hZZtm11eRL7OJx0w%2BOg0nQLGSY5O4Ur%2B9tk%3D&reserved=0) Is basically for programmers to insert output from programs (such as python or R scripts) into a document. That way you don't need to insert screenshots or type the output of the program every time you compile. Other than that it is pandoc. Pros are the ability to call code from your Markdown file, massive number of output file formats, completely open source, and the ability to use tools such as BibTX. Cons are that one needs to use Markdown, the required use of the command line, required use of LaTeX math, and the need to understand editors and file types. 4. Using [MiKTeX]( https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmiktex.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=WGU1%2FjVwaeazi1k%2FXMx0apWAJVHqRfNEz22bD0Kb41I%3D&reserved=0) with either a text editor or an IDE like [TEXnicCenter.]( https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.texniccenter.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=kdVMzPSILszjz0SrIcIkCj48hXInScKcrL6HOMxcDP8%3D&reserved=0) Pros are that everything is integrated so no knowledge of the command line is needed, ability to export in a wide range of formats, and ability to use tools like BibTX. Cons are the configuration options if one wishes to do anything other than the default, the need to type in pure LaTeX, and exclusive to Windows (although there are text editors and IDEs other than TeXnicCenter that can be used on other operating systems). From what I have generally seen, Word is preferred by new users or users who like to use word, pandoc is preferred by users who are intermediate or above and who are not afraid of the command line, RMarkdown is used by programmers and data annalists who run code, and TeXnicCenter is used by people who want a simple plug and play tool for conversion between LaTeX and other formats. They each have their different affordances and should be used accordingly. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fbrandonkeithbiggs.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=ec1B3YlMqkt0xuFNrcj9QMnQmUUjaX%2BWpRuqA74U%2F8E%3D&reserved=0> On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 4:09 PM, Godfrey, Jonathan via BlindMath < blindmath@...> wrote: > Hi Brandon, > > Take out all the backslashes in the example you sent through that > aren't part of a mathematical expression. White space does all that is > needed for line breaks, indenting etc. in markdown documents. > > You can't change the cumbersome nature of the LaTeX content for > equations, but I suggest using *x* instead of the more common$x$> within paragraphs because the font is so similar that it doesn't > matter to the sighted audience but the conversion to italics from the > stars is not spoken by a screen reader while the conversion to math > mode from use of dollars is announced. This suggestion does break the > rules for semantic correctness, but the distraction that is caused by > the screen reader telling me x was math content can often detract from > the overall reading experience of the final document especially in > sentences where there are plenty of elements using simple mathematical > notation. (You can't do this for super or subscripts so easily, or if the element needs a {} construct for example. > > One of the major pluses for encouraging my colleagues and anyone else > preparing material that might be read by a blind person is that the > author does not have to think about accessibility during document > preparation. The access is built in so often because markdown forces > an author to at least know they didn't add an alt tag for a graphic > because they left some brackets empty. They often don't know what > they've done (positive or > negative) in reality so occasionally, some helpful reminders are required. > <smiles> Markdown won't stop people choosing daft text for hyperlinks > such as "here" but that's a societal issue not a mathematical one. > > Compare the simplicity of markdown to the pain to get an alt tag > added to a graphic inserted into a LaTeX document. Yes it is possible, > but it requires some additional work by the author if the document is > to be born accessible or some post hoc editing by a human to build in > that access. I can do the former, but as a blind person the latter > option is annoying in HTML and impossible if the output file is in pdf. > > As it happens, I did write up some starting suggestions for markdown > documents which are tailored to people using the R variant of markdown. > Head to > https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fr-re > sources.massey.ac.nz%2FRmarkdown%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3 > c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C63661021 > 5333873395&sdata=QQh72p%2Ba6PrSSD3lwvRPIiF8FeQz%2BkqUUQzpV118Aac%3D&re > served=0 > > HTH > Jonathan > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindMath <blindmath-bounces@...> On Behalf Of Brandon > Keith Biggs via BlindMath > Sent: Friday, 4 May 2018 10:24 a.m. > To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics < > blindmath@...> > Cc: Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs@...> > Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Typing Math and Science Quickly and > Understandably > > Hello Jonathan, > Do you have something that explains the least cumbersome syntax for > Markdown / LaTeX? > Thanks, > > > Brandon Keith Biggs > <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fbran > donkeithbiggs.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30f > b%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdat > a=ec1B3YlMqkt0xuFNrcj9QMnQmUUjaX%2BWpRuqA74U%2F8E%3D&reserved=0> > > On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 2:11 PM, Godfrey, Jonathan via BlindMath < > blindmath@...> wrote: > > > Hello, > > > > You are correct that use of LaTeX within a markdown document leads > > to the same outcome as the workflow you have used in MS Word with > > MathType. I don't think you should suddenly change workflow for > > improved access to the mathematical content. There are other reasons > > why you should get use of pandoc into your toolbox though. > > > > I do think Brandon's example is more cumbersome than it needed to be. > > I use markdown almost daily, and I only ever put a \ to get > > mathematical content. Forever listening to backslash from any screen > > reader is annoying, slows me down, and often presents a distraction. > > This was a leading reason for reducing my use of full-blown LaTeX. > > > > I would urge you to make use of the LEAN editor mentioned in this > > thread to enhance your workflow. The feature of LEAN I use most is > > the addition of tags to the math content so that you do not need to > > go backwards and forwards into LaTeX mode to read the content, and > > you don't have to use the specific combination of tools (screen > > reader + math player). LEAN offers an alternative and I am not > > suggesting it as a replacement. Having options is power, because it puts you in control. > > > > I do think you need to enhance what you do a little to get the best > > of what you have now before you embark on all manner of options. I > > would also suggest to you that the accuracy aspect of your criticism > > of LaTeX (while > > true) is also true for practically every tool you will use, and is > > also true for the scientific content you will be working with. I > > think your initial message to this thread said you were considering > > a computer science major; the programming languages you use will > > have limited flexibility to deal with the human inaccuracies that > > even the best among us is prone to create. For me, it is the ability > > to find and correct these inaccuracies that tells me how truly > > accessible a solution is for me. Markdown is the solution that works > > best for me > today; it is not the only solution I use. > > > > My final point is about use of a personal system. I know plenty of > > blind people who have little shorthand things we write. The problem > > is that they are individual and can't be shared. The most likely > > person you will want to share your work with is your future-self. > > Will you recall the shorthand you use today in ten years' time? > > > > Cheers, > > Jonathan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: BlindMath <blindmath-bounces@...> On Behalf Of Bhavya > > shah via BlindMath > > Sent: Friday, 4 May 2018 8:05 a.m. > > To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics < > > blindmath@...> > > Cc: Bhavya shah <bhavya.shah125@...> > > Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Typing Math and Science Quickly and > > Understandably > > > > Hi Brandon, > > > > In essence, this method is very similar to how I used to use LaTeX > > of MathType to generate Math ML content that was visually readible > > and screen reader firnedly with the help of NVDA and Math Player. > > However, my only two concerns are that using LaTeX or any other > > standardized Math code to type would almost invariably mean (1) > > slightly longer and stricter syntax that would need to be > > mandatorily followed, and (2) there are several reasons, some of > > which include lack of customization in pronunciation and excessive > > pausing, why I found reading Math ML with the help of Math Player > > and NVDA somewhat cumbersome in my past experiences. If I come to > > think of it, it is quite certain that at some point in time, either > > for typing my own Math&Science or for reading my transcribed course > > material, I will need to deal with Math ML using Math Player and > > NVDA, so in a day at most, I will be retrying Math ML and sharing > > some of the more significant concerns and issues I > have with interacting with Math ML. > > > > Kindly let me know if my present understanding of the method you > > described that this is just Pandoc instead of MathType and > > commandline instead of Word for using LaTeX to generate Math ML > > content is > fundamentally incorrect. > > > > Thanks. > > > > On 5/3/18, Brandon Keith Biggs via BlindMath <blindmath@...> > wrote: > > > Hello, > > > Markdown with LaTeX is perfect for you. Here is an example that > > > Lukasz (from this list wrote): > > > > > > ## Parametric Forms > > > > > > *transcriber: system of two equations, each one has an extra > > > information after comma* \$x = t^2 -2t$,$dx = 2t-2$\$y= t+1$, > > > minimum at$t=1$\ > > > *transcriber: end of the system* > > > > > > For window: > > > \ > > >$t$from$[-2,4]$,$t$step$= 0.1$\$x$from$[-1,10]$\$y$> > > from$[-1,5]$> > > > > > # something easier > > > > > >$3x + y = 10$> > > \ > > >$9 * 5 = 45$> > > \ > > > Fractions > > > \ > > >$\frac{1}{2} + \frac{1}{2} = 1$> > > > > > > > > This converts perfectly to MathML using pandoc: > > > https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2F > > > pandoc.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7 > > > C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sda > > > ta=HJAQJf7m%2BmPlkNayTPwtyyR1z9JH6WKe7AkQIQ%2Bcxcs%3D&reserved=0 > > > > > > You install pandoc, open a command line where you have the math > > > content and > > > type: > > > > > > pandoc my_math_file.md --mathml -s -o my_html_output_file.html > > > > > > You can give your professor the html file and they can read it in > > > print just fine. If you have a Braille display, the MathML shows > > > up just fine and it is also read by the screen reader. NVDA > > > requires Math player (see the user guide under reading math > > > content for more > info). > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > Brandon Keith Biggs > > > <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2F > > > brandonkeithbiggs.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d > > > 5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C63661021533 > > > 3873395&sdata=ec1B3YlMqkt0xuFNrcj9QMnQmUUjaX%2BWpRuqA74U%2F8E%3D&r > > > eserved=0> > > > > > > On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 11:00 AM, Sean Tikkun via BlindMath < > > > blindmath@...> wrote: > > > > > >> Bhavya Shah, > > >> > > >> I am assembling a team to generate 3D models to assist in > > >> learning. The team leaders are a former math teacher fluent in > > >> Braille (me) and a Fabrication lab director that teaches > > >> Biological and Chemical Sciences at the University level. If you > > >> have access to 3D printing I would love to know what you may > > >> need. Files are easy to send. If not, perhaps there is a > > >> fabrication lab at a university in Mumbai that would be interested in some collaboration? > > >> Feel free to reach out. stikkun@.... > > >> > > >> > > >> Sean Tikkun > > >> Apple Distinguished Educator > > >> class of 2007 > > >> > > >> On May 01, 2018, at 08:51 PM, Sabra Ewing via BlindMath < > > >> blindmath@...> wrote: > > >> > > >> I typed most of my math using the first method. You might be able > > >> to type more quickly if you had a braille keyboard. Also note > > >> that you can use parentheses and brackets. The Pearce in equation > > >> editor can produce math in a visual format. It is free. The > > >> braille note touch can do this as well although it is very > > >> expensive. I would definitely say to use a keyboard. > > >> Do > > >> not type on your phone as I am doing now because it is much slower. > > >> Another > > >> thing you can do is use copy and paste. You do not have to type > > >> everything from scratch. You can copy previous steps to your > > >> clipboard, paste them, and then modify them to create your future > > >> steps. Like for example, you might write a chemical equation that > > >> is not balanced. Paste this equation underneath it so you have > > >> two copies of the same equation. Then, take the first step toward > > >> balancing that equation and make those changes to your second copy. > > >> Now you have your equation and underneath it, you have the > > >> modified version with step one completed, so copied the version > > >> with step one completed to your clipboard and paste it > > >> underneath. Now you have the original equation, and you have two copies of step one. > > >> Modified the second copy of step one based on what you plan to do > > >> in > step two. > > >> Continue this method until you have finished the problem. With a > > >> braille keyboard, you should be able to type as fast as someone > > >> can speak and even faster. If you cannot or a braille keyboard is > > >> not an option, you can record what is being said with a phone or > > >> other recording device and you can then go back over it. Another > > >> thing you can do is request things in electronic format. Mini > > >> American professors do not know how to create accessible math > > >> when it is really very easy as you described. You do not have to > > >> know any markup languages. You can create accessible math just by > > >> using your computer keyboard, and in many cases, if you are a > > >> computer science student, your math is in the perfect format to > > >> just paste right over into your > > ide. > > >> Maybe > > >> Indian professors would be better at creating accessible. If not, > > >> you might be able to find someone who can do it. This will be > > >> especially easy if you can find some funding. I was not lucky in > > >> this regard because other than professors, I never found a > > >> dedicated person who knew how to produce accessible math. I > > >> finally got to a position where I could no longer receive > > >> accessible math because I moved on to a four-year university > > >> where the professors did not know how to produce it. It is very > > >> ironic that when I started out at a two year university, the > > >> professors did know how to produce it. I approach programmers, > > >> professors, deans, and > department head. > > >> No one actually knew how including the programmers who produce > > >> accessible math every day. I finally had to end up listening to > > >> my math on recordings and writing everything down. It was very > > >> difficult. If you want to get math in braille, there is software > > >> that can do it called Duxberry. Ironically, my university > > >> actually had this software, but no one knew how to use it > > >> including the people who worked at disability services. Getting > > >> it for yourself will not be helpful. If you get this software, > > >> you will need someone who can modify the equations for you. If > > >> your professor has files that were generated from a markup > > >> language, you could try asking for those source files. Even if > > >> you do not know the markup language, math is written very > > >> similarly when you are programming computers, so you could probably pick up how to read it. > > >> Unfortunately, my professors used PDFs that they got from other > > >> sources or pictures of hand written documents so I could not do > > >> this. People will try to tell you that Matt cannot be produced > > >> excessively on the computer. This simply is not true. Every > > >> mathematical formula, function, and number known to humankind can > > >> be programmed into a computer using a text based programming > > >> language. Also, many of these functions and formulas can be put > > >> into XL. If you can put these formulas into XL, then you can > > >> produce them accessibly in a word document. If someone is trying > > >> to tell you that they can't, then just tell them to put it in a > spreadsheet, press F2 on the cells, and read the formulas that way. > > >> XL is very good because you can use it to organize data, you can > > >> use it as a calculator, and you can use it to create tables and > graphs. > > >> You can put these documents in your dropbox and you can get the > > >> pictures of the graphs. > > >> You can then import these pictures into the voice app on your > > >> phone and you can listen to them. If you are going to listen to > > >> pie charts, to make it easier on yourself to read, use the 3-D > > >> exploding pie charts. This may sound counterintuitive, but when > > >> you listen to them, there is a bit more separation between each piece. > > >> I don't know how you would get training to listen to grass. I > > >> just automatically was born knowing how to do it. No one ever taught me. > > >> I could always listen to graphs very easily and I could never > > >> read > tactile graphics. > > >> There is also a program called math tracks where you can create > > >> audio graphs by entering in equations.However, it is really best > > >> to have both the equation and the data because what if you > > >> created a graph using any equation, and you need to make some > > >> changes to the > data? > > >> Well, you don't have the data, so what are you going to do? You > > >> could probably generate the data from the equation in some cases, > > >> but that will take forever. I like to listen to a graph and have > > >> the spreadsheet in front of me at the same time. There is also a > > >> blind > > chemist named Dr. > > >> sapalo. I'm not sure how to spell his name. I have his card > > >> somewhere but I just have to find it. I really wish people would > > >> start using those barcode Cards where I can scan the contact > > >> information into my phone, but I only know one person who uses > > >> those. Anyways, You may want to get in touch with him. He has all > > >> of these probes. They do all different things. They connect to a > > >> computer and they can measure chemical reactions and make graphs > > >> and do all this stuff depending on what probe you use. For > > >> example, you could use one probe to graph the color changes that > > >> occur during > an experiment. > > >> You could use another probe to track temperature changes like ice > > melting. > > >> I don't really do chemistry, but if I did, I imagine I would want > > >> this thing, but I can't remember what it is called. But he is > > >> actually a chemistry professor at a university. He is totally > > >> blind and he teaches classes and runs labs and does all sorts of things. > > >> There are plenty of blind computer scientists, but he struck my > > >> interest in particular because I have not heard of mini blind > > >> chemists. He also had some good advice for 3-D printing that > > >> would work in the United States, but I am not sure if it would > > >> work in India. If possible though, you may want to get some 3-D > > >> models printed. Another thing is that you want to stay > > >> consistent. You want to make sure that you are doing things in > > >> the classroom the same way you will do them during testing. In my > > >> chemistry class, I did not have access to a lot of 3-D models, > > >> but for testing purposes, they made me a 3-D model. > > >> This really was not fair because it was made out of a lot of cups > > >> and straws. I did not know what it was, and it is not fair to use > > >> models for testing purposes that you did not use in the classroom > > >> or to use a different method for testing purposes that you did > > >> not use in the classroom because this will skew the results. If > > >> you use certain accommodations in the classroom, insist on the > > >> same accommodations for testing. > > >> > > >> Sabra Ewing > > >> > > >> On May 1, 2018, at 5:22 PM, Bhavya shah via BlindMath < > > >> blindmath@...> wrote: > > >> > > >> Dear all, > > >> > > >> I am Bhavya Shah, a totally blind 16-year-old student from > > >> Mumbai, India. Having just completed my tenth grade with the same > > >> Mathematics and Science syllabus as my sighted peers in a > > >> mainstream school, I intend to take up the Science stream > > >> according to the Indian education system for Classes 11 and 12 > > >> with the subject combination of > > >> Physics+Chemistry+Mathematics, and probably take up something > > >> Physics+Chemistry+along > > >> the lines of Computer Science for my undergraduate studies after > > >> that (although I shouldn’t overly worry about about finalizing > > >> that for now, I suppose). Additionally, I shall be enrolling into > > >> coaching for a very competitive pan-India engineering entrance > > >> examination over the next two years where I will be delving into > > >> particularly advanced topics in to the three afore-mentioned subjects. > > >> > > >> Till Class 10, I managed an overwhelming chunk of Math either > > >> orally or mentally, and from what I have been informed, have > > >> dealt with relatively very simple organic structures, general > > >> numericals and chemical equations which I have been handling > > >> mostly via plain > text. > > >> It has become increasingly clear to me that this makeshift method > > >> will be extremely inefficient and consequently infeasible for the > > >> kind of syllabus I am transitioning to. Hence, I am looking for > > >> different techniques, tools or methods of typing Math and Science > > >> that will allow me to be as rapid a Math&Science typist as I am > > >> of the English language (at its peak, my fingers have achieved > > >> about > > >> 100 > > >> WPM) so that I can cope with the daily rigor this coaching demands. > > >> I need to be able to type mathematical and scientific content > > >> accurately and swiftly not necessarily such that it is visually > > >> readable by a sighted professor but more so for my own reference, > > >> understanding and purposes of review and revision. > > >> > > >> So far, I am versed only with two options – ASCII Math, where I > > >> would just type Math and Science using standard symbols present > > >> on any keyboard such as /, *, ^ and so on to denote different > > >> things (perhaps > > >> (x+2)/x-1)) in chiefly plain text, or type things in LaTeX using > > >> MathType ($\frac{x+2}{x-1}\$) and employ Math Player and NVDA to
> > >> read it. From my basic understanding of this and limited past
> > >> experience with each of these methods, the former sounds much
> > >> faster and more efficient to me, but I am open to evidence and
> > >> experiences suggesting otherwise. There are various other Math
> > >> typing tools I have heard about over the years such as Infty
> > >> Reader and Lean Math, but have never adequately researched them
> > >> let alone
> used them to any extent.
> > >> Any information or instructional material on these and other
> > >> potential alternatives you would recommend would be of great help too.
> > >>
> > >> I would truly appreciate any assistance on different strategies
> > >> you may have used to math your sighted counterparts’ speed in
> > >> terms of writing and solving mathematical and scientific
> > >> material, questions and problem sets.
> > >>
> > >> Thanks.
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Best Regards
> > >> Bhavya Shah
> > >>
> > >> Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons:
> > >> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2
> > >> Fbhavyashah125.wordpress.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a
> > >> 3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C63
> > >> 6610215333873395&sdata=k594wAS4lRAm1M1llFxPaseNm%2Fh5l9rLMCCJiqSY
> > >> ruA%3D&reserved=0
> > >>
> > >> Contacting Me
> > >> E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@...
> > >> LinkedIn:
> > >> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2
> > >> Fwww.linkedin.com%2Fin%2Fbhavyashah125%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1
> > >> aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C
> > >> 1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=uJJZGJ9RwXu7UYppKRvu%2B%2FzFiMHl
> > >> x6azouEDc5rGd%2Bs%3D&reserved=0
> > >> Twitter: @BhavyaShah125
> > >> Skype: bhavya.09
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> BlindMath mailing list
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> > >> nfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindmath_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C
> > >> 01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aa
> > >> aaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=DQVDDrqxxXNWtfLfy5B
> > >> ahpa3gws7gP%2B0HkB4gHeKxMM%3D&reserved=0
> > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> > >> for
> > >> BlindMath:
> > >> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2F
> > >> nfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindmath_nfbnet.org%2Fsabra&dat
> > >> a=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640a
> > >> fb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=3s1s4pTI0tsq
> > >> 17jGi3n8C0Amu2YXLk%2FdupeH7gCVN9I%3D&reserved=0
> > >> 1023%40gmail.com
> > >> BlindMath Gems can be found at
> > >> <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2
> > >> Fwww.blindscience.org%2Fb&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c1730
> > >> 8d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C63661021
> > >> 5333873395&sdata=4ThJBC1p8qyXQ%2BleUxbV3f3ahbqkxY7xgJrZS%2FNQViw%
> > >> 3D&reserved=0
> > >> lindmath-gems-home>
> > >>
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> > >> nfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindmath_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C
> > >> 01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aa
> > >> aaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=DQVDDrqxxXNWtfLfy5B
> > >> ahpa3gws7gP%2B0HkB4gHeKxMM%3D&reserved=0
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> > >> for
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> > >> nfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindmath_nfbnet.org%2Fjaquis%25
> > >> 40mac&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e
> > >> 7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=%2B
> > >> jsgQIa7YSrEnKYVhGCVV9Wy6QBuWE19JgJ8mDPnlbk%3D&reserved=0
> > >> .c om BlindMath Gems can be found at
> > >> <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2
> > >> Fwww.blindscience.org%2Fb&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c1730
> > >> 8d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C63661021
> > >> 5333873395&sdata=4ThJBC1p8qyXQ%2BleUxbV3f3ahbqkxY7xgJrZS%2FNQViw%
> > >> 3D&reserved=0
> > >> lindmath-gems-home>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> BlindMath mailing list
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> > >> nfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindmath_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C
> > >> 01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aa
> > >> aaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=DQVDDrqxxXNWtfLfy5B
> > >> ahpa3gws7gP%2B0HkB4gHeKxMM%3D&reserved=0
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> > >> for
> > >> BlindMath:
> > >> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2F
> > >> nfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindmath_nfbnet.org%2Fbrand&dat
> > >> a=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640a
> > >> fb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=lGz3v%2FuLN1
> > >> TyCOulT4I8Ey0uyKk4R%2F14UhXec4OjqGQ%3D&reserved=0
> > >> onkeithbiggs%40gmail.com
> > >> BlindMath Gems can be found at
> > >> <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2
> > >> Fwww.blindscience.org%2Fb&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c1730
> > >> 8d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C63661021
> > >> 5333873395&sdata=4ThJBC1p8qyXQ%2BleUxbV3f3ahbqkxY7xgJrZS%2FNQViw%
> > >> 3D&reserved=0
> > >> lindmath-gems-home>
> > >>
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > BlindMath mailing list
> > > BlindMath@...
> > > https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fn
> > > fbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindmath_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01
> > > %7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaa
> > > aaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=DQVDDrqxxXNWtfLfy5Bahpa
> > > 3gws7gP%2B0HkB4gHeKxMM%3D&reserved=0
> > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> > > for
> > > BlindMath:
> > > https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fn
> > > fbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindmath_nfbnet.org%2Fbhavya.shah
> > > 12&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9
> > > f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=k07nfOBn
> > > 1BybiBx1z0huGkAC0iOCj6Z5iPz6tjrg4xg%3D&reserved=0
> > > 5%
> > > 40gmail.com
> > > BlindMath Gems can be found at
> > > <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2F
> > > www.blindscience.org%2Fblindmath-gems-home&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1
> > > aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1
> > > %7C0%7C636610215333873395&sdata=2gI3Dwgnx9uzainRfdQuYq%2FoYHc%2Fyz
> > > w7C4I6CJ3nVdg%3D&reserved=0>
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Best Regards
> > Bhavya Shah
> >
> > Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons:
> > https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fbh
> > avyashah125.wordpress.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c1730
> > 8d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C63661021533
> > 3873395&sdata=k594wAS4lRAm1M1llFxPaseNm%2Fh5l9rLMCCJiqSYruA%3D&reser
> > ved=0
> >
> > Contacting Me
> > E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@...
> > LinkedIn:
> > https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fww
> > w.linkedin.com%2Fin%2Fbhavyashah125%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3
> > 447a3c17308d5b19e30fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6
> > 36610215333873395&sdata=uJJZGJ9RwXu7UYppKRvu%2B%2FzFiMHlx6azouEDc5rG
> > d%2Bs%3D&reserved=0
> > Twitter: @BhavyaShah125
> > Skype: bhavya.09
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> > a.j.godfrey%40massey.ac.nz
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> > brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com
> > BlindMath Gems can be found at
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> a.j.godfrey%40massey.ac.nz
> BlindMath Gems can be found at
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> BlindMath:
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> brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com
> BlindMath Gems can be found at
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> blindscience.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb0ec1aaa8a3447a3c17308d5b19e30fb
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