Date   

Re: screenwriting software that works with NVDA

Marshall handheld Flax
 

Brian, I think it's exactly the opposite...not graphics based at all.  

You do need punctuation to be read, since a stage direction is surrounded by double-asterisks.  For example: **FADE IN:**
And you do need to have all-caps word sound different from mixed-capitalization words, since an all-cap line indicates who is speaking.

But  I can't see any reason why these would be significant barriers!  A longer example is at https://fountain.io/_downloads/Big-Fish.fountain

Marshall

On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 12:41 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists@...> wrote:
Am I right in thinking that anything written to screen this way is inherently inaccessible as its graphics based?
Should we really be being complicit in such an endeavour? :-)

Brian

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----- Original Message ----- From: "Marshall handheld Flax" <m.droid.flax@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 3:47 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] screenwriting software that works with NVDA


You want to use https://fountain.io/

It is a text-only format that has some simple markup to indicate
formatting.  So you can use whatever text editor you wish -- notepad,
wordpad, vi, emacs ... anything.

All you need to do is follow a few rules.  For example, transitions are a
line that is all uppercase and ends with a colon.  A caret (shift-6)
indicates two speakers are talking at once.  A line that starts with "int"
or "ext" is a scene heading, etc.

Then there are different programs that will convert it to a pretty script
at the very end.

On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 10:20 AM, Giles Turnbull <giles.turnbull@...>
wrote:

Hi all,

has anybody used screenwriting programs successfully with NVDA? When I
start my MA in creative writing in October I'd like to take the movie/TV
screenwriting module, but am going to need to use software to handle the
routine screenwriting formatting. I'd appreciate any suggestions on which
software works well with NVDA and any that doesn't.

Grateful for any suggestions ... I know what software is available but do
not know anybody who has used them with a screen reader :)

Giles










Re: screenwriting software that works with NVDA

Brian's Mail list account
 

Am I right in thinking that anything written to screen this way is inherently inaccessible as its graphics based?
Should we really be being complicit in such an endeavour? :-)

Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Marshall handheld Flax" <m.droid.flax@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 3:47 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] screenwriting software that works with NVDA


You want to use https://fountain.io/

It is a text-only format that has some simple markup to indicate
formatting. So you can use whatever text editor you wish -- notepad,
wordpad, vi, emacs ... anything.

All you need to do is follow a few rules. For example, transitions are a
line that is all uppercase and ends with a colon. A caret (shift-6)
indicates two speakers are talking at once. A line that starts with "int"
or "ext" is a scene heading, etc.

Then there are different programs that will convert it to a pretty script
at the very end.

On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 10:20 AM, Giles Turnbull <giles.turnbull@...>
wrote:

Hi all,

has anybody used screenwriting programs successfully with NVDA? When I
start my MA in creative writing in October I'd like to take the movie/TV
screenwriting module, but am going to need to use software to handle the
routine screenwriting formatting. I'd appreciate any suggestions on which
software works well with NVDA and any that doesn't.

Grateful for any suggestions ... I know what software is available but do
not know anybody who has used them with a screen reader :)

Giles



I trust this error will be fixed soon.

Brian's Mail list account
 

Its At present, its not possible to use the download install link in the add ons menu as it always gives an nvda error as in my recent ticket. its happening on master and next so its probably been there for a while now.
if you download and do this outside nvda, and save a file it then seems to install. Its only the internal option that is broken.

IO - speech.speak (17:31:22.140):
Speaking [LangChangeCommand ('en_GB'), u'\u2022 Author: Tony Malykh']
IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (17:31:24.213):
Input: kb(desktop):tab
IO - speech.speak (17:31:24.246):
Speaking [LangChangeCommand ('en_GB'), u'stable version', u'link']
IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (17:31:26.150):
Input: kb(desktop):enter
DEBUGWARNING - NVDAObjects.IAccessible.IAccessible._get_IAccessibleRole (17:31:26.217):
accRole failed: (-2147024809, 'The parameter is incorrect.', (None, None, None, 0, None))
DEBUGWARNING - NVDAObjects.IAccessible.IAccessible._get_IAccessibleRole (17:31:26.549):
accRole failed: (-2147024809, 'The parameter is incorrect.', (None, None, None, 0, None))
DEBUGWARNING - RPC process 1332 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:31:26.612):
Python warning:
C:\Program Files (x86)\NVDA\library.zip\configobj.py:28: DeprecationWarning: The compiler package is deprecated and removed in Python 3.x.
ERROR - RPC process 1332 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:31:26.638):
__main__.main:
slave error
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "nvda_slave.pyw", line 101, in main
ValueError: No such action
IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (17:31:41.309):
Input: kb(desktop):control+alt+r
IO - speech.speak (17:31:41.384):
Speaking [LangChangeCommand ('en_GB'), u'Taskbar']
IO - speech.speak (17:31:41.424):
Speaking [LangChangeCommand ('en_GB'), u'reboot nvda with log terminal']
IO - speech.speak (17:31:41.426):
Speaking [LangChangeCommand ('en_GB'), u'80 space', u'blank']
INFO - core.main (17:31:41.471):
Exiting

This was an attempt to download sentence navigation add on.
Windows 7 Firefox 57esr.
Brian

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Re: I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

Gene
 

I see no way that it saves a keystroke.  If you are in a web page, you still have to move to the address bar with control l.  If you open a new tab or window, you are automatically placed in the address bar so you can just start typing.  What was in the address bar is automatically removed because it is highlighted.  So, control t, type search, look for the result you want, and press enter.  Control n, type search, look for the result and press enter.  Or, control l, type search, look for the result, and press alt enter.  No difference in keystrokes.  I addressed a possible reason for speed differences in my previous message but I see no difference other than that possible one.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 9:32 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

Not to split hairs, but it's a new tab (which loads faster AFAIK) not a new window.

It still saves you a keystroke per search - assuming you want the search results in a new tab. Also, if you accidnetally search from the wrong tab it helps loads.

On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 3:29 PM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
I just checked.  Typing an address and then using alt enter does open the page in a new window.  It does this in a search or when typing an address.  It's a nice convenience, but it doesn't make much difference since, as I said before, you can use control n to open a new window first, then open a page.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 9:11 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

I had thought, when I read about what alt enter does in a previous message, that it would do the same thing if you type an address.  I see from Brian's message that alt enter evidently only does this when in a list of results from a search that you see by doing a search using that field.  It should take this action when searching for a book mark in this way as well because you are in the same search list.  But it would be good if someone who uses the feature would clarify the points.
 
I say, off an on, never to assume in unfamiliar contexts or environments when dealing with computers.  I assumed what would happen when typing an address and not being in the list and that assumption may well be wrong.  Experimentation is fine, but you can't assume in an unfamiliar context when dealing with computers.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
 

From: Gene
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 8:54 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

I'm not sure Firefox informs you when a popup has been blocked.  I don't recall seeing such messages.  You can never assume anything in unfamiliar environments. I don't use Chrome enough to know if message information isn't automatically read.  But taking the same action repeatedly, time after time, in any context dealing with computers accomplishes nothing in general.  It assumes that computers are illogical and that repeating the same failed action many times will produce a different result.  If two or three times  doesn't accomplish anything, repetition further is very unlikely to.  Repeating something a time or two may produce results because some transient condition may prevent the command from being carried out. 
 
But the first question is, are status messages not read in Chrome and to answer that question, we need to know what actions produce them, then test by taking those specific actions.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Kenny
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 7:06 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

And if you use Microsoft Edge or FireFox, you're immediately informed via a notification bar message that a file has been queued and if you wish to "Run" or "Save" it. NVDA automatically reads these messages with no problems.


OK, so you use the Download Manager to monitor if a download has started in Chrome. What do you do to know if a pop-up was blocked on a page, and you're clicking the link over and over again not knowing what the hell is going on? Maybe if NVDA read the dynamic message informing you that a popup was blocked, then you could take an "Action" to disable the blocker for that page?


So my problem deals with NVDA not automatically reading any dynamic content displayed in this Chrome Actions bar.


On 5/15/2018 4:20 AM, Steve Nutt wrote:

Hi Kenny,

 

I’m not aware that downloads speak in any screen reader.  I believe this should be a Chrome change.

 

However, it’s easy enough for me to press Control-J and go look at the percentages.  Once it’s in focus, it should be read to you.

 

All the best


Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kenny
Sent: 15 May 2018 02:02
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

 

Thanks for sharing the proper shortcut.

 

I'm curious why hasn't NVDA been configured to speak these "Actions" when they dynamically appear in Google Chrome? This is the only issue I have with the browser.

 

You click on a link to download a file and you have no idea the download has started. You have to hit Ctrl+j to bring up the Download Manager to check. Even other Actions aren't spoken automatically by NVDA for the Chrome browser.

 

Can't that cool NVDA installation progress sound be configured to activate for the download progress for Chrome too?

 

On 5/14/2018 5:21 PM, Steve Nutt wrote:

Hi,

 

Alt+Shif    t+A should get you into what Chrome calls Actions, which are the notifications.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kenny
Sent: 10 May 2018 04:31
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

 

Can you please share your tutorial with the list again?

 

I'm hoping you gone over a work around to have the messages being pushed to Chrome's notification bar automatically read by NVDA?

 

Also what is the shortcut key to be placed in the notification bar? The alt+n key combination doesn't seem to work. Thanks.

 

On 5/6/2018 6:21 PM, David Moore wrote:


Hi all!

I have been telling people just how great Chrome is for two and a half years.

I am so happy that all of you are finding it to be true.

If anyone needs my text tutorial I wrote on how to use Chrome, and take you through all settings, I will paste it on the list.

I have done this around ten times on all the lists, but you are still finding out for the first time, just how great Chrome is.

Just read works great for just reading an article on the page.

CTRL+J allows you to hear the status of the downloads. Now, CTRL+Shift+O allows you to open the bookmarks manager, and you can arrange them in different folders and back them up.

Chrome is great with Youtube, and streaming media. Chrome is good for a lot other than just simple browsing.

Have a great one, and I am celebrating that you are finally getting used to Chrome!

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: juan gonzalez
Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2018 5:23 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

 

I use the add on called sound on for navigational sounds.

 

-----Original Message-----

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io

Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2018 9:28 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it much more now

 

Would anyone know if Chrome has sounds? one of the annoyances with current firefox is figuring out when downloads are finished or when a page is refreshing itself, ie you normally hear the ticks  in the old version due to navigational sounds.

Until i find a browser with this function of sound I'm loathe to get a new browser over ff52, but the problem is that I've been reading that some sites now do not support the old versions of Firefox and tell you so when you have things like modal windows whatever they are.

On XP to make Firefox perform even reasonably you need to use a version 45, as after this the actual load up times are hugely slowed, my guess is that the code is made for multi processor  devices, not single core ones.This is also why on xp you might find that Chrome and firefox are similar in page loading times.

 

Things are no pushing ahead so fast on sites that its not uncommon to see the message you browser is unsupported get this or that then you can come back.

To me this is a weird thing for commercial sites to do, as they are, in effect pushing away potential customers, but hey, that is their business.

Brian

 

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----- Original Message -----

From: "Gene" <gsasner@...>

To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>

Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2018 10:57 AM

Subject: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it much more now

 

 

I may have sent messages in the past in which I expressed a much stronger liking for Firefox than Chrome.  At this point, I've changed my mind and, unless things change over time, as they may as Firefox continues to implement its new internal technical changes, I consider Chrome to be superior for general browsing. I haven't tested it for uses such as streaming or RSS or other uses.  I will therefore only address general browsing and the interface.  Others may want to comment on other aspects I haven't compared.

 

This is a long message, a bit of a review and a bit of discussion of the interface.  I hope those interested in the subject find it useful.

 

If you try Chrome and find it superior for general browsing, you may still not want to use Chrome as your main browser.  There are various considerations.  I'll explain why I changed my mind and what you may want to consider.  You may have other or different considerations as well.

 

The reason I say Chrome is better for general browsing is because it loads pages faster than Firefox.  You may want to compare and see if the difference is important to you.  There is a very noticeable difference.  I hadn't compared Chrome with Firefox for speed on a fast machine.  I compared them on a slow machine running XP perhaps six or eight months ago.  I had expected that, if Chrome was faster, there would have been a noticeable difference, even though the machine was slow.  But there wasn't a difference that amounted to anything.

 

I recently decided to compare on a reasonably fast machine running Windows 7 since many people have said on lists I'm on that Chrome is faster.  There is a very noticeable difference in speed on my Windows 7 machine.  I don't know what the results would have been on a fast XP machine.

 

I haven't used Chrome much but the increase in speed is the reason I say it's better for general browsing.

 

The Chrome interface is different than Firefox or Internet Explorer.  It isn't difficult to learn but it is different.  You will likely want a tutorial or some instructional material.  If you are good at learning by exploring, you may not want or need such material, at least not to use in depth, but you may benefit in early learning by using material.

 

The main things to know in terms of the differences in the interface are that Chrome shows many things as web pages, such as settings and history and there is one menu, which you can open with alt f, that is, hold alt and press f.  Of course, there are submenus and there are also items that open like web pages such as settings.

 

I don't recall if there are classic dialogs that open from the main menu.

But if you work with settings, you need to know that the settings interface doesn't work quite properly in the following way:

It's a web page-like interface but there some controls that don't work as they should.  I tried to activate two buttons today and I couldn't do so in browse mode using NVDA.  I don't know what JAWS does.  I had to manually go into forms mode, and activate the buttons.  I may have had to tab to the button because forms mode may not have been properly calibrated with browse mode in that interface, at least at times.

 

I seem to recall that in another instance, I needed to be in browse mode to activate something but I'd have to experiment more to know if that is the case since I don't have a clear memory of whether that was necessary.

 

There's a very useful settings search feature in settings.

 

One of my main objections to Chrome in the past was that the book marks interface is not nearly as comvenient to work with as Firefox because the search feature in Chrome book marks appears to be inaccessible.  I very recently learned from someone on a list I follow that this problem can be more or less eliminated.  I say more or less because I haven't played with it much, but enough to see that it works well or reasonably well.  I'm hedging because I'd want to play with it more before saying just how well it works.  It' appears to work well from the very little testing I've done.  If you are in the address bar, you can type some or all of what you want to find such as york times or new york times and you can up and down arrow through results.  Some of them will be search results using a search engine but the top results in the list should be from book marks and history.  Try reading the current line after typing to see if that contains the first result.  I haven't played with the feature more than a little and I'm not sure.  But if it works well, this would eliminate what I consider to be an important deficiency. In other words, this feature may make book marks just as easy to use in Chrome as in Firefox.

 

If you use Firefox extensions that you consider important and use them a lot, that may be a consideration in which browser you want to use.  and then, there's just convenience of not learning a new interface and continuing to use the familiar Firefox.  You, of course, can determine questions like that.  It's nice to have pages load a good deal faster, but the importance of speed may vary from user to user.  But if you haven't compared with a hands on test, you may wish to.

 

Browsing is either identical or nearly identical between the browsers because they both use browse mode, or the Virtual PC cursor, which is the JAWS name for the same thing.

 

So you can compare by installing Chrome, and then opening and using some web sites.  Control l moves you to the address bar, just as in Firefox.  I believe when you open Chrome, you are automatically placed on the address bar, but you can check.  If you want to make sure, it takes almost no time to execute control l.

 

I hope those who are interested in this subject find these comments useful.

If people are curious or dissatisfied with Firefox or another browser, they may want to try Chrome.  I haven't used Edge at all so I don't know how Edge compares.

 

Gene

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 





--

Take care,

Chris Norman


Re: Alt+Enter? Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

Gene
 

Perhaps the time difference depends on what opens when you open a new window.  If you use control n, does your home page open?  What about control t?  I'm not sure what happens.  If the home page opens, then using control n and control t may take longer, especially in today's environment where most pages are so complex and present so much advertising.  I have about:blank open so for me, I don't think there is any meaningful difference.  I hadn't thought about what opens if you use control n or t.  Does the home page open then?
 
Gene

Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 9:29 AM
Subject: Re: Alt+Enter? Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

It saves as much time as you do web searches. Me: I do them lots, so it saves me a ton of time.

You are right though, you can (for the sake of an extra keystroke) open a new tab with control t (new windows oepn slower) and then do your search.

HTH,

CHris

On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 2:34 PM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
Usually, if you go to the address bar and type an address or a search and open a new page,  it will open in the same window.  Alt enter, according to the message, I haven't tried it, opens the new page in a new window so you now have two Windows opened.  This saves a small amount of time but it makes little difference.  You can accomplish the same thing in any standard Windows browser by using the command control n when you are on a web page, to open a new browser window and opening a page however you want in that window, typing an address, a search, history, a bookmark from the list or using the address bar to find it.  You are in a new browser window so you can do anything you can do in any browser window.
 
Gene. 
----- Original Message -----
In the original message, typing a search is done instead of typing a web address but alt enter should do the same thing, no matter how you open a new web page.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 6:14 AM
Subject: Alt+Enter? Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

Wow thanks for this keystroke! I'm starting to love Chrome as wel! but I didn't grasp what's used for. could you maybe give an example? yes I understanding it's for searching, but not as clearly as I'like. I'm sure this keystroke will become one of my main ones!
El 15/05/2018 a las 01:39 a.m., Chris Norman via Groups.Io escribió:

Hi,

When the downloads window is open you do get the progress sound.


I've been using Chrome as my default browser for a while now, and have just bought a Chromebook to boot. I love both.


One of the coolest shortcuts i've found in Chrome is alt enter: With a page open you navigate to the omnibar (the address bar) and type a search. When you press alt enter it opens what you just searched for in a new tab without you having to close your current web page.


Needless to say I am a Chrome convert.


It also works extremely well with my Mindspace Client, far better than Firefox did when I tried it last (about a month ago). Mindspace involves lots of multilayered sounds and lots of dynamic page creation with JavaScript which Chrome's V8 JavaScript engine handles with ease, far Faster than Firefox's SpiderMonkey I think it's called.


While the above was of course a shameless plug, if you do decide to have a look at Mindspace please be aware that it is pre-alpha, and as such isn't anywhere near complete.


HTH,


Chris


On 15/05/2018 02:01, Kenny wrote:

Thanks for sharing the proper shortcut.


I'm curious why hasn't NVDA been configured to speak these "Actions" when they dynamically appear in Google Chrome? This is the only issue I have with the browser.


You click on a link to download a file and you have no idea the download has started. You have to hit Ctrl+j to bring up the Download Manager to check. Even other Actions aren't spoken automatically by NVDA for the Chrome browser.


Can't that cool NVDA installation progress sound be configured to activate for the download progress for Chrome too?


On 5/14/2018 5:21 PM, Steve Nutt wrote:

Hi,

 

Alt+Shif    t+A should get you into what Chrome calls Actions, which are the notifications.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kenny
Sent: 10 May 2018 04:31
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

 

Can you please share your tutorial with the list again?

 

I'm hoping you gone over a work around to have the messages being pushed to Chrome's notification bar automatically read by NVDA?

 

Also what is the shortcut key to be placed in the notification bar? The alt+n key combination doesn't seem to work. Thanks.

 

On 5/6/2018 6:21 PM, David Moore wrote:

Hi all!

I have been telling people just how great Chrome is for two and a half years.

I am so happy that all of you are finding it to be true.

If anyone needs my text tutorial I wrote on how to use Chrome, and take you through all settings, I will paste it on the list.

I have done this around ten times on all the lists, but you are still finding out for the first time, just how great Chrome is.

Just read works great for just reading an article on the page.

CTRL+J allows you to hear the status of the downloads. Now, CTRL+Shift+O allows you to open the bookmarks manager, and you can arrange them in different folders and back them up.

Chrome is great with Youtube, and streaming media. Chrome is good for a lot other than just simple browsing.

Have a great one, and I am celebrating that you are finally getting used to Chrome!

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: juan gonzalez
Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2018 5:23 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

 

I use the add on called sound on for navigational sounds.

 

-----Original Message-----

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io

Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2018 9:28 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it much more now

 

Would anyone know if Chrome has sounds? one of the annoyances with current firefox is figuring out when downloads are finished or when a page is refreshing itself, ie you normally hear the ticks  in the old version due to navigational sounds.

Until i find a browser with this function of sound I'm loathe to get a new browser over ff52, but the problem is that I've been reading that some sites now do not support the old versions of Firefox and tell you so when you have things like modal windows whatever they are.

On XP to make Firefox perform even reasonably you need to use a version 45, as after this the actual load up times are hugely slowed, my guess is that the code is made for multi processor  devices, not single core ones.This is also why on xp you might find that Chrome and firefox are similar in page loading times.

 

Things are no pushing ahead so fast on sites that its not uncommon to see the message you browser is unsupported get this or that then you can come back.

To me this is a weird thing for commercial sites to do, as they are, in effect pushing away potential customers, but hey, that is their business.

Brian

 

bglists@...

Sent via blueyonder.

Please address personal E-mail to:-

briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'

in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----

From: "Gene" <gsasner@...>

To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>

Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2018 10:57 AM

Subject: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it much more now

 

 

I may have sent messages in the past in which I expressed a much stronger liking for Firefox than Chrome.  At this point, I've changed my mind and, unless things change over time, as they may as Firefox continues to implement its new internal technical changes, I consider Chrome to be superior for general browsing. I haven't tested it for uses such as streaming or RSS or other uses.  I will therefore only address general browsing and the interface.  Others may want to comment on other aspects I haven't compared.

 

This is a long message, a bit of a review and a bit of discussion of the interface.  I hope those interested in the subject find it useful.

 

If you try Chrome and find it superior for general browsing, you may still not want to use Chrome as your main browser.  There are various considerations.  I'll explain why I changed my mind and what you may want to consider.  You may have other or different considerations as well.

 

The reason I say Chrome is better for general browsing is because it loads pages faster than Firefox.  You may want to compare and see if the difference is important to you.  There is a very noticeable difference.  I hadn't compared Chrome with Firefox for speed on a fast machine.  I compared them on a slow machine running XP perhaps six or eight months ago.  I had expected that, if Chrome was faster, there would have been a noticeable difference, even though the machine was slow.  But there wasn't a difference that amounted to anything.

 

I recently decided to compare on a reasonably fast machine running Windows 7 since many people have said on lists I'm on that Chrome is faster.  There is a very noticeable difference in speed on my Windows 7 machine.  I don't know what the results would have been on a fast XP machine.

 

I haven't used Chrome much but the increase in speed is the reason I say it's better for general browsing.

 

The Chrome interface is different than Firefox or Internet Explorer.  It isn't difficult to learn but it is different.  You will likely want a tutorial or some instructional material.  If you are good at learning by exploring, you may not want or need such material, at least not to use in depth, but you may benefit in early learning by using material.

 

The main things to know in terms of the differences in the interface are that Chrome shows many things as web pages, such as settings and history and there is one menu, which you can open with alt f, that is, hold alt and press f.  Of course, there are submenus and there are also items that open like web pages such as settings.

 

I don't recall if there are classic dialogs that open from the main menu.

But if you work with settings, you need to know that the settings interface doesn't work quite properly in the following way:

It's a web page-like interface but there some controls that don't work as they should.  I tried to activate two buttons today and I couldn't do so in browse mode using NVDA.  I don't know what JAWS does.  I had to manually go into forms mode, and activate the buttons.  I may have had to tab to the button because forms mode may not have been properly calibrated with browse mode in that interface, at least at times.

 

I seem to recall that in another instance, I needed to be in browse mode to activate something but I'd have to experiment more to know if that is the case since I don't have a clear memory of whether that was necessary.

 

There's a very useful settings search feature in settings.

 

One of my main objections to Chrome in the past was that the book marks interface is not nearly as comvenient to work with as Firefox because the search feature in Chrome book marks appears to be inaccessible.  I very recently learned from someone on a list I follow that this problem can be more or less eliminated.  I say more or less because I haven't played with it much, but enough to see that it works well or reasonably well.  I'm hedging because I'd want to play with it more before saying just how well it works.  It' appears to work well from the very little testing I've done.  If you are in the address bar, you can type some or all of what you want to find such as york times or new york times and you can up and down arrow through results.  Some of them will be search results using a search engine but the top results in the list should be from book marks and history.  Try reading the current line after typing to see if that contains the first result.  I haven't played with the feature more than a little and I'm not sure.  But if it works well, this would eliminate what I consider to be an important deficiency. In other words, this feature may make book marks just as easy to use in Chrome as in Firefox.

 

If you use Firefox extensions that you consider important and use them a lot, that may be a consideration in which browser you want to use.  and then, there's just convenience of not learning a new interface and continuing to use the familiar Firefox.  You, of course, can determine questions like that.  It's nice to have pages load a good deal faster, but the importance of speed may vary from user to user.  But if you haven't compared with a hands on test, you may wish to.

 

Browsing is either identical or nearly identical between the browsers because they both use browse mode, or the Virtual PC cursor, which is the JAWS name for the same thing.

 

So you can compare by installing Chrome, and then opening and using some web sites.  Control l moves you to the address bar, just as in Firefox.  I believe when you open Chrome, you are automatically placed on the address bar, but you can check.  If you want to make sure, it takes almost no time to execute control l.

 

I hope those who are interested in this subject find these comments useful.

If people are curious or dissatisfied with Firefox or another browser, they may want to try Chrome.  I haven't used Edge at all so I don't know how Edge compares.

 

Gene

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 




-- 
Gera
Enviado desde Thunderbird




--

Take care,

Chris Norman


Re: Using BrailleNote touch as a display w/NVDA

 

Hi,
In theory, yes, but let's not go there yet.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 7:27 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Using BrailleNote touch as a display w/NVDA

Does this mean if the client uses the master snap it will work then?
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 1:15 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Using BrailleNote touch as a display w/NVDA


Hi,
Can you tell your client the following:
BrailleNote Touch will be supported again in NVDA 2018.2.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jackie
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2018 3:17 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Using BrailleNote touch as a display w/NVDA

A client is trying to use her BrailleNote Touch as a display w/NVDA over
bluetooth. It used to be that it worked w/the brailliant option, though in
the latest NVDA version, that isn't even available in the Braille settings.
Any reason it disappeared? We've tried using the Baum/HumanWare/Orbit/APH &
also the Braille Note setting, to no avail.

--
Remember! Friends Help Friends Be Cybersafe Jackie McBride Helping
Cybercrime Victims 1 Person at a Time https://brighter-vision.com


Re: screenwriting software that works with NVDA

Marshall handheld Flax
 

You want to use https://fountain.io/

It is a text-only format that has some simple markup to indicate formatting.  So you can use whatever text editor you wish -- notepad, wordpad, vi, emacs ... anything.

All you need to do is follow a few rules.  For example, transitions are a line that is all uppercase and ends with a colon.  A caret (shift-6) indicates two speakers are talking at once.  A line that starts with "int" or "ext" is a scene heading, etc.

Then there are different programs that will convert it to a pretty script at the very end.

On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 10:20 AM, Giles Turnbull <giles.turnbull@...> wrote:
Hi all,

has anybody used screenwriting programs successfully with NVDA? When I start my MA in creative writing in October I'd like to take the movie/TV screenwriting module, but am going to need to use software to handle the routine screenwriting formatting. I'd appreciate any suggestions on which software works well with NVDA and any that doesn't.

Grateful for any suggestions ... I know what software is available but do not know anybody who has used them with a screen reader :)

Giles



Re: In-Process 15th May

Brian's Mail list account
 

does this still happen if you do the apply settings to log in etc?
On here it is Espeak if I elect to copy the data over.
Brian

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Sent via blueyonder.
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Mallard" <mallard@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 8:56 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] In-Process 15th May


Hello,


Yes, it's the OneCore that sounds horrible!


It comes up at the Windows Logon, and it sounds awful...

I tried to change it, but it still comes up. When NVDA is loaded, hen,
my defaullt synth speaks normally.
Ciao,
Ollie



Il 15/05/2018 09:23, Quentin Christensen ha scritto:
Olle,

Do you mean OneCore sounds horrible in Italian, or the current version of eSpeak NG?

Re changing the synthesizer, eSpeak NG is still included, it's just that OneCore is the default in Windows 10. If that is problematic, we'll have to look into it, though of course, as regularly discussed here, eSpeak NG is not perfect either!

Quentin.

On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 5:05 PM, Mallard <mallard@... <mailto:mallard@...>> wrote:

Except for the Italian voices, which sound terrible. That's not so
much the voice qualiti itself, but the accent. It sounds like
someone who has trouble speaking; someone who's had a stroke, or
something... Really disgraceful!


Is there a way to change it back to Espeak?


Thanks, ciao,

Ollie





Il 15/05/2018 07:42, Rosemarie Chavarria ha scritto:


Hi, Quentin,


Wow, that's neat about the one-core voices being the default
voices now. I like e-speakbut the one-core voices sound more
natural.


Rosemarie




On 5/14/2018 9:16 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:

HI everyone,

This week's In-Process is out, and it includes some of the
goodness you can expect from NVDA 2018.2, plus an update
on our first Certified Expert in India and a hat-tip to
our Windows Insiders

All at:
https://www.nvaccess.org/post/in-process-15th-may-2018/
<https://www.nvaccess.org/post/in-process-15th-may-2018/>

#NVDAsr

--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification
now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org>
<http://www.nvaccess.org/>
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
<http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess>
Twitter: @NVAccess










--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org/>
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess


Re: In-Process 15th May

Brian's Mail list account
 

Manually in the property sheet. go too speech, then the synth then change and fiddle it then ok it again. However if its an update you should see no change from what you use now. its only for new installs.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Mallard" <mallard@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 8:05 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] In-Process 15th May


Except for the Italian voices, which sound terrible. That's not so much the voice qualiti itself, but the accent. It sounds like someone who has trouble speaking; someone who's had a stroke, or something... Really disgraceful!


Is there a way to change it back to Espeak?


Thanks, ciao,

Ollie





Il 15/05/2018 07:42, Rosemarie Chavarria ha scritto:

Hi, Quentin,


Wow, that's neat about the one-core voices being the default voices now. I like e-speakbut the one-core voices sound more natural.


Rosemarie




On 5/14/2018 9:16 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
HI everyone,

This week's In-Process is out, and it includes some of the goodness you can expect from NVDA 2018.2, plus an update on our first Certified Expert in India and a hat-tip to our Windows Insiders

All at: https://www.nvaccess.org/post/in-process-15th-may-2018/

#NVDAsr

--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org/>
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess


Re: In-Process 15th May

Brian's Mail list account
 

Nothing to stop you having them as the doc read all voice and espeak as the day to day one though, using the profiles.

I do this with an old Speech platform one. the problem I've always had with Microsoft synths is the tendency to expand Americanised abbreviations, and pronounce certain words strangely. The latter can be fixed in dictionary entries, but no solution
to English post codes like KT 4 11NY ending up as 1 New york.

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rosemarie Chavarria" <knitqueen2007@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 6:42 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] In-Process 15th May


Hi, Quentin,


Wow, that's neat about the one-core voices being the default voices now.
I like e-speakbut the one-core voices sound more natural.


Rosemarie




On 5/14/2018 9:16 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
HI everyone,

This week's In-Process is out, and it includes some of the goodness
you can expect from NVDA 2018.2, plus an update on our first Certified
Expert in India and a hat-tip to our Windows Insiders

All at: https://www.nvaccess.org/post/in-process-15th-may-2018/

#NVDAsr

--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org/>
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess


Re: I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

 

Not to split hairs, but it's a new tab (which loads faster AFAIK) not a new window.

It still saves you a keystroke per search - assuming you want the search results in a new tab. Also, if you accidnetally search from the wrong tab it helps loads.

On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 3:29 PM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
I just checked.  Typing an address and then using alt enter does open the page in a new window.  It does this in a search or when typing an address.  It's a nice convenience, but it doesn't make much difference since, as I said before, you can use control n to open a new window first, then open a page.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 9:11 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

I had thought, when I read about what alt enter does in a previous message, that it would do the same thing if you type an address.  I see from Brian's message that alt enter evidently only does this when in a list of results from a search that you see by doing a search using that field.  It should take this action when searching for a book mark in this way as well because you are in the same search list.  But it would be good if someone who uses the feature would clarify the points.
 
I say, off an on, never to assume in unfamiliar contexts or environments when dealing with computers.  I assumed what would happen when typing an address and not being in the list and that assumption may well be wrong.  Experimentation is fine, but you can't assume in an unfamiliar context when dealing with computers.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
 

From: Gene
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 8:54 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

I'm not sure Firefox informs you when a popup has been blocked.  I don't recall seeing such messages.  You can never assume anything in unfamiliar environments. I don't use Chrome enough to know if message information isn't automatically read.  But taking the same action repeatedly, time after time, in any context dealing with computers accomplishes nothing in general.  It assumes that computers are illogical and that repeating the same failed action many times will produce a different result.  If two or three times  doesn't accomplish anything, repetition further is very unlikely to.  Repeating something a time or two may produce results because some transient condition may prevent the command from being carried out. 
 
But the first question is, are status messages not read in Chrome and to answer that question, we need to know what actions produce them, then test by taking those specific actions.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Kenny
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 7:06 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

And if you use Microsoft Edge or FireFox, you're immediately informed via a notification bar message that a file has been queued and if you wish to "Run" or "Save" it. NVDA automatically reads these messages with no problems.


OK, so you use the Download Manager to monitor if a download has started in Chrome. What do you do to know if a pop-up was blocked on a page, and you're clicking the link over and over again not knowing what the hell is going on? Maybe if NVDA read the dynamic message informing you that a popup was blocked, then you could take an "Action" to disable the blocker for that page?


So my problem deals with NVDA not automatically reading any dynamic content displayed in this Chrome Actions bar.


On 5/15/2018 4:20 AM, Steve Nutt wrote:

Hi Kenny,

 

I’m not aware that downloads speak in any screen reader.  I believe this should be a Chrome change.

 

However, it’s easy enough for me to press Control-J and go look at the percentages.  Once it’s in focus, it should be read to you.

 

All the best


Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kenny
Sent: 15 May 2018 02:02
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

 

Thanks for sharing the proper shortcut.

 

I'm curious why hasn't NVDA been configured to speak these "Actions" when they dynamically appear in Google Chrome? This is the only issue I have with the browser.

 

You click on a link to download a file and you have no idea the download has started. You have to hit Ctrl+j to bring up the Download Manager to check. Even other Actions aren't spoken automatically by NVDA for the Chrome browser.

 

Can't that cool NVDA installation progress sound be configured to activate for the download progress for Chrome too?

 

On 5/14/2018 5:21 PM, Steve Nutt wrote:

Hi,

 

Alt+Shif    t+A should get you into what Chrome calls Actions, which are the notifications.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kenny
Sent: 10 May 2018 04:31
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

 

Can you please share your tutorial with the list again?

 

I'm hoping you gone over a work around to have the messages being pushed to Chrome's notification bar automatically read by NVDA?

 

Also what is the shortcut key to be placed in the notification bar? The alt+n key combination doesn't seem to work. Thanks.

 

On 5/6/2018 6:21 PM, David Moore wrote:


Hi all!

I have been telling people just how great Chrome is for two and a half years.

I am so happy that all of you are finding it to be true.

If anyone needs my text tutorial I wrote on how to use Chrome, and take you through all settings, I will paste it on the list.

I have done this around ten times on all the lists, but you are still finding out for the first time, just how great Chrome is.

Just read works great for just reading an article on the page.

CTRL+J allows you to hear the status of the downloads. Now, CTRL+Shift+O allows you to open the bookmarks manager, and you can arrange them in different folders and back them up.

Chrome is great with Youtube, and streaming media. Chrome is good for a lot other than just simple browsing.

Have a great one, and I am celebrating that you are finally getting used to Chrome!

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: juan gonzalez
Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2018 5:23 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

 

I use the add on called sound on for navigational sounds.

 

-----Original Message-----

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io

Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2018 9:28 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it much more now

 

Would anyone know if Chrome has sounds? one of the annoyances with current firefox is figuring out when downloads are finished or when a page is refreshing itself, ie you normally hear the ticks  in the old version due to navigational sounds.

Until i find a browser with this function of sound I'm loathe to get a new browser over ff52, but the problem is that I've been reading that some sites now do not support the old versions of Firefox and tell you so when you have things like modal windows whatever they are.

On XP to make Firefox perform even reasonably you need to use a version 45, as after this the actual load up times are hugely slowed, my guess is that the code is made for multi processor  devices, not single core ones.This is also why on xp you might find that Chrome and firefox are similar in page loading times.

 

Things are no pushing ahead so fast on sites that its not uncommon to see the message you browser is unsupported get this or that then you can come back.

To me this is a weird thing for commercial sites to do, as they are, in effect pushing away potential customers, but hey, that is their business.

Brian

 

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Please address personal E-mail to:-

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----- Original Message -----

From: "Gene" <gsasner@...>

To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>

Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2018 10:57 AM

Subject: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it much more now

 

 

I may have sent messages in the past in which I expressed a much stronger liking for Firefox than Chrome.  At this point, I've changed my mind and, unless things change over time, as they may as Firefox continues to implement its new internal technical changes, I consider Chrome to be superior for general browsing. I haven't tested it for uses such as streaming or RSS or other uses.  I will therefore only address general browsing and the interface.  Others may want to comment on other aspects I haven't compared.

 

This is a long message, a bit of a review and a bit of discussion of the interface.  I hope those interested in the subject find it useful.

 

If you try Chrome and find it superior for general browsing, you may still not want to use Chrome as your main browser.  There are various considerations.  I'll explain why I changed my mind and what you may want to consider.  You may have other or different considerations as well.

 

The reason I say Chrome is better for general browsing is because it loads pages faster than Firefox.  You may want to compare and see if the difference is important to you.  There is a very noticeable difference.  I hadn't compared Chrome with Firefox for speed on a fast machine.  I compared them on a slow machine running XP perhaps six or eight months ago.  I had expected that, if Chrome was faster, there would have been a noticeable difference, even though the machine was slow.  But there wasn't a difference that amounted to anything.

 

I recently decided to compare on a reasonably fast machine running Windows 7 since many people have said on lists I'm on that Chrome is faster.  There is a very noticeable difference in speed on my Windows 7 machine.  I don't know what the results would have been on a fast XP machine.

 

I haven't used Chrome much but the increase in speed is the reason I say it's better for general browsing.

 

The Chrome interface is different than Firefox or Internet Explorer.  It isn't difficult to learn but it is different.  You will likely want a tutorial or some instructional material.  If you are good at learning by exploring, you may not want or need such material, at least not to use in depth, but you may benefit in early learning by using material.

 

The main things to know in terms of the differences in the interface are that Chrome shows many things as web pages, such as settings and history and there is one menu, which you can open with alt f, that is, hold alt and press f.  Of course, there are submenus and there are also items that open like web pages such as settings.

 

I don't recall if there are classic dialogs that open from the main menu.

But if you work with settings, you need to know that the settings interface doesn't work quite properly in the following way:

It's a web page-like interface but there some controls that don't work as they should.  I tried to activate two buttons today and I couldn't do so in browse mode using NVDA.  I don't know what JAWS does.  I had to manually go into forms mode, and activate the buttons.  I may have had to tab to the button because forms mode may not have been properly calibrated with browse mode in that interface, at least at times.

 

I seem to recall that in another instance, I needed to be in browse mode to activate something but I'd have to experiment more to know if that is the case since I don't have a clear memory of whether that was necessary.

 

There's a very useful settings search feature in settings.

 

One of my main objections to Chrome in the past was that the book marks interface is not nearly as comvenient to work with as Firefox because the search feature in Chrome book marks appears to be inaccessible.  I very recently learned from someone on a list I follow that this problem can be more or less eliminated.  I say more or less because I haven't played with it much, but enough to see that it works well or reasonably well.  I'm hedging because I'd want to play with it more before saying just how well it works.  It' appears to work well from the very little testing I've done.  If you are in the address bar, you can type some or all of what you want to find such as york times or new york times and you can up and down arrow through results.  Some of them will be search results using a search engine but the top results in the list should be from book marks and history.  Try reading the current line after typing to see if that contains the first result.  I haven't played with the feature more than a little and I'm not sure.  But if it works well, this would eliminate what I consider to be an important deficiency. In other words, this feature may make book marks just as easy to use in Chrome as in Firefox.

 

If you use Firefox extensions that you consider important and use them a lot, that may be a consideration in which browser you want to use.  and then, there's just convenience of not learning a new interface and continuing to use the familiar Firefox.  You, of course, can determine questions like that.  It's nice to have pages load a good deal faster, but the importance of speed may vary from user to user.  But if you haven't compared with a hands on test, you may wish to.

 

Browsing is either identical or nearly identical between the browsers because they both use browse mode, or the Virtual PC cursor, which is the JAWS name for the same thing.

 

So you can compare by installing Chrome, and then opening and using some web sites.  Control l moves you to the address bar, just as in Firefox.  I believe when you open Chrome, you are automatically placed on the address bar, but you can check.  If you want to make sure, it takes almost no time to execute control l.

 

I hope those who are interested in this subject find these comments useful.

If people are curious or dissatisfied with Firefox or another browser, they may want to try Chrome.  I haven't used Edge at all so I don't know how Edge compares.

 

Gene

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 





--

Take care,

Chris Norman


Re: A tutorial for MP3 Direct Cut

Brian's Mail list account
 

I think I've got Lame in so many places now I've lost track!
The snag is which is the newest?
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <gsasner@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 2:57 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] A tutorial for MP3 Direct Cut


Regarding my last message, if you want to use Audacity, there is an error in the tutorial which I'll explain if you want to know. The error won't cause problems, it just adds an unnecessary step or two when editing. You may save time without doing it.

Also, if you just want to edit and not record with MP3 direct Cut, you may not need the lame encoder to be placed in the program
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2018 8:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: A tutorial for MP3 Direct Cut


Recently, I said I would send a tutorial about using MP3 Direct Cut to an e-mail list. I don't recall if this was the list but, because I don't remember, I'm sending it here.

The presentation is one file and contains a discussion and demonstration of both audacity and MP3 Direct Cut. You can skim the file until the MP3 Direct cut part begins.

After the MP3 Direct Cut section, is a discussion on how to decide what parameters to use to record a file, such as bit rate.

You can listen or download it here:
http://www.accessibleworld.org/sites/default/files/tt-03-19-12-tutorial-gene-asner-audacity-and-mp3-cut.mp3

Gene


Re: Alt+Enter? Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

 

It saves as much time as you do web searches. Me: I do them lots, so it saves me a ton of time.

You are right though, you can (for the sake of an extra keystroke) open a new tab with control t (new windows oepn slower) and then do your search.

HTH,

CHris

On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 2:34 PM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
Usually, if you go to the address bar and type an address or a search and open a new page,  it will open in the same window.  Alt enter, according to the message, I haven't tried it, opens the new page in a new window so you now have two Windows opened.  This saves a small amount of time but it makes little difference.  You can accomplish the same thing in any standard Windows browser by using the command control n when you are on a web page, to open a new browser window and opening a page however you want in that window, typing an address, a search, history, a bookmark from the list or using the address bar to find it.  You are in a new browser window so you can do anything you can do in any browser window.
 
Gene. 
----- Original Message -----
In the original message, typing a search is done instead of typing a web address but alt enter should do the same thing, no matter how you open a new web page.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 6:14 AM
Subject: Alt+Enter? Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

Wow thanks for this keystroke! I'm starting to love Chrome as wel! but I didn't grasp what's used for. could you maybe give an example? yes I understanding it's for searching, but not as clearly as I'like. I'm sure this keystroke will become one of my main ones!
El 15/05/2018 a las 01:39 a.m., Chris Norman via Groups.Io escribió:

Hi,

When the downloads window is open you do get the progress sound.


I've been using Chrome as my default browser for a while now, and have just bought a Chromebook to boot. I love both.


One of the coolest shortcuts i've found in Chrome is alt enter: With a page open you navigate to the omnibar (the address bar) and type a search. When you press alt enter it opens what you just searched for in a new tab without you having to close your current web page.


Needless to say I am a Chrome convert.


It also works extremely well with my Mindspace Client, far better than Firefox did when I tried it last (about a month ago). Mindspace involves lots of multilayered sounds and lots of dynamic page creation with JavaScript which Chrome's V8 JavaScript engine handles with ease, far Faster than Firefox's SpiderMonkey I think it's called.


While the above was of course a shameless plug, if you do decide to have a look at Mindspace please be aware that it is pre-alpha, and as such isn't anywhere near complete.


HTH,


Chris


On 15/05/2018 02:01, Kenny wrote:

Thanks for sharing the proper shortcut.


I'm curious why hasn't NVDA been configured to speak these "Actions" when they dynamically appear in Google Chrome? This is the only issue I have with the browser.


You click on a link to download a file and you have no idea the download has started. You have to hit Ctrl+j to bring up the Download Manager to check. Even other Actions aren't spoken automatically by NVDA for the Chrome browser.


Can't that cool NVDA installation progress sound be configured to activate for the download progress for Chrome too?


On 5/14/2018 5:21 PM, Steve Nutt wrote:

Hi,

 

Alt+Shif    t+A should get you into what Chrome calls Actions, which are the notifications.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kenny
Sent: 10 May 2018 04:31
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

 

Can you please share your tutorial with the list again?

 

I'm hoping you gone over a work around to have the messages being pushed to Chrome's notification bar automatically read by NVDA?

 

Also what is the shortcut key to be placed in the notification bar? The alt+n key combination doesn't seem to work. Thanks.

 

On 5/6/2018 6:21 PM, David Moore wrote:

Hi all!

I have been telling people just how great Chrome is for two and a half years.

I am so happy that all of you are finding it to be true.

If anyone needs my text tutorial I wrote on how to use Chrome, and take you through all settings, I will paste it on the list.

I have done this around ten times on all the lists, but you are still finding out for the first time, just how great Chrome is.

Just read works great for just reading an article on the page.

CTRL+J allows you to hear the status of the downloads. Now, CTRL+Shift+O allows you to open the bookmarks manager, and you can arrange them in different folders and back them up.

Chrome is great with Youtube, and streaming media. Chrome is good for a lot other than just simple browsing.

Have a great one, and I am celebrating that you are finally getting used to Chrome!

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: juan gonzalez
Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2018 5:23 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

 

I use the add on called sound on for navigational sounds.

 

-----Original Message-----

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io

Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2018 9:28 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it much more now

 

Would anyone know if Chrome has sounds? one of the annoyances with current firefox is figuring out when downloads are finished or when a page is refreshing itself, ie you normally hear the ticks  in the old version due to navigational sounds.

Until i find a browser with this function of sound I'm loathe to get a new browser over ff52, but the problem is that I've been reading that some sites now do not support the old versions of Firefox and tell you so when you have things like modal windows whatever they are.

On XP to make Firefox perform even reasonably you need to use a version 45, as after this the actual load up times are hugely slowed, my guess is that the code is made for multi processor  devices, not single core ones.This is also why on xp you might find that Chrome and firefox are similar in page loading times.

 

Things are no pushing ahead so fast on sites that its not uncommon to see the message you browser is unsupported get this or that then you can come back.

To me this is a weird thing for commercial sites to do, as they are, in effect pushing away potential customers, but hey, that is their business.

Brian

 

bglists@...

Sent via blueyonder.

Please address personal E-mail to:-

briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'

in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----

From: "Gene" <gsasner@...>

To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>

Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2018 10:57 AM

Subject: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it much more now

 

 

I may have sent messages in the past in which I expressed a much stronger liking for Firefox than Chrome.  At this point, I've changed my mind and, unless things change over time, as they may as Firefox continues to implement its new internal technical changes, I consider Chrome to be superior for general browsing. I haven't tested it for uses such as streaming or RSS or other uses.  I will therefore only address general browsing and the interface.  Others may want to comment on other aspects I haven't compared.

 

This is a long message, a bit of a review and a bit of discussion of the interface.  I hope those interested in the subject find it useful.

 

If you try Chrome and find it superior for general browsing, you may still not want to use Chrome as your main browser.  There are various considerations.  I'll explain why I changed my mind and what you may want to consider.  You may have other or different considerations as well.

 

The reason I say Chrome is better for general browsing is because it loads pages faster than Firefox.  You may want to compare and see if the difference is important to you.  There is a very noticeable difference.  I hadn't compared Chrome with Firefox for speed on a fast machine.  I compared them on a slow machine running XP perhaps six or eight months ago.  I had expected that, if Chrome was faster, there would have been a noticeable difference, even though the machine was slow.  But there wasn't a difference that amounted to anything.

 

I recently decided to compare on a reasonably fast machine running Windows 7 since many people have said on lists I'm on that Chrome is faster.  There is a very noticeable difference in speed on my Windows 7 machine.  I don't know what the results would have been on a fast XP machine.

 

I haven't used Chrome much but the increase in speed is the reason I say it's better for general browsing.

 

The Chrome interface is different than Firefox or Internet Explorer.  It isn't difficult to learn but it is different.  You will likely want a tutorial or some instructional material.  If you are good at learning by exploring, you may not want or need such material, at least not to use in depth, but you may benefit in early learning by using material.

 

The main things to know in terms of the differences in the interface are that Chrome shows many things as web pages, such as settings and history and there is one menu, which you can open with alt f, that is, hold alt and press f.  Of course, there are submenus and there are also items that open like web pages such as settings.

 

I don't recall if there are classic dialogs that open from the main menu.

But if you work with settings, you need to know that the settings interface doesn't work quite properly in the following way:

It's a web page-like interface but there some controls that don't work as they should.  I tried to activate two buttons today and I couldn't do so in browse mode using NVDA.  I don't know what JAWS does.  I had to manually go into forms mode, and activate the buttons.  I may have had to tab to the button because forms mode may not have been properly calibrated with browse mode in that interface, at least at times.

 

I seem to recall that in another instance, I needed to be in browse mode to activate something but I'd have to experiment more to know if that is the case since I don't have a clear memory of whether that was necessary.

 

There's a very useful settings search feature in settings.

 

One of my main objections to Chrome in the past was that the book marks interface is not nearly as comvenient to work with as Firefox because the search feature in Chrome book marks appears to be inaccessible.  I very recently learned from someone on a list I follow that this problem can be more or less eliminated.  I say more or less because I haven't played with it much, but enough to see that it works well or reasonably well.  I'm hedging because I'd want to play with it more before saying just how well it works.  It' appears to work well from the very little testing I've done.  If you are in the address bar, you can type some or all of what you want to find such as york times or new york times and you can up and down arrow through results.  Some of them will be search results using a search engine but the top results in the list should be from book marks and history.  Try reading the current line after typing to see if that contains the first result.  I haven't played with the feature more than a little and I'm not sure.  But if it works well, this would eliminate what I consider to be an important deficiency. In other words, this feature may make book marks just as easy to use in Chrome as in Firefox.

 

If you use Firefox extensions that you consider important and use them a lot, that may be a consideration in which browser you want to use.  and then, there's just convenience of not learning a new interface and continuing to use the familiar Firefox.  You, of course, can determine questions like that.  It's nice to have pages load a good deal faster, but the importance of speed may vary from user to user.  But if you haven't compared with a hands on test, you may wish to.

 

Browsing is either identical or nearly identical between the browsers because they both use browse mode, or the Virtual PC cursor, which is the JAWS name for the same thing.

 

So you can compare by installing Chrome, and then opening and using some web sites.  Control l moves you to the address bar, just as in Firefox.  I believe when you open Chrome, you are automatically placed on the address bar, but you can check.  If you want to make sure, it takes almost no time to execute control l.

 

I hope those who are interested in this subject find these comments useful.

If people are curious or dissatisfied with Firefox or another browser, they may want to try Chrome.  I haven't used Edge at all so I don't know how Edge compares.

 

Gene

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 




-- 
Gera
Enviado desde Thunderbird




--

Take care,

Chris Norman


Re: I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

Gene
 

I just checked.  Typing an address and then using alt enter does open the page in a new window.  It does this in a search or when typing an address.  It's a nice convenience, but it doesn't make much difference since, as I said before, you can use control n to open a new window first, then open a page.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 9:11 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

I had thought, when I read about what alt enter does in a previous message, that it would do the same thing if you type an address.  I see from Brian's message that alt enter evidently only does this when in a list of results from a search that you see by doing a search using that field.  It should take this action when searching for a book mark in this way as well because you are in the same search list.  But it would be good if someone who uses the feature would clarify the points.
 
I say, off an on, never to assume in unfamiliar contexts or environments when dealing with computers.  I assumed what would happen when typing an address and not being in the list and that assumption may well be wrong.  Experimentation is fine, but you can't assume in an unfamiliar context when dealing with computers.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
 

From: Gene
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 8:54 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

I'm not sure Firefox informs you when a popup has been blocked.  I don't recall seeing such messages.  You can never assume anything in unfamiliar environments. I don't use Chrome enough to know if message information isn't automatically read.  But taking the same action repeatedly, time after time, in any context dealing with computers accomplishes nothing in general.  It assumes that computers are illogical and that repeating the same failed action many times will produce a different result.  If two or three times  doesn't accomplish anything, repetition further is very unlikely to.  Repeating something a time or two may produce results because some transient condition may prevent the command from being carried out. 
 
But the first question is, are status messages not read in Chrome and to answer that question, we need to know what actions produce them, then test by taking those specific actions.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Kenny
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 7:06 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

And if you use Microsoft Edge or FireFox, you're immediately informed via a notification bar message that a file has been queued and if you wish to "Run" or "Save" it. NVDA automatically reads these messages with no problems.


OK, so you use the Download Manager to monitor if a download has started in Chrome. What do you do to know if a pop-up was blocked on a page, and you're clicking the link over and over again not knowing what the hell is going on? Maybe if NVDA read the dynamic message informing you that a popup was blocked, then you could take an "Action" to disable the blocker for that page?


So my problem deals with NVDA not automatically reading any dynamic content displayed in this Chrome Actions bar.


On 5/15/2018 4:20 AM, Steve Nutt wrote:

Hi Kenny,

 

I’m not aware that downloads speak in any screen reader.  I believe this should be a Chrome change.

 

However, it’s easy enough for me to press Control-J and go look at the percentages.  Once it’s in focus, it should be read to you.

 

All the best


Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kenny
Sent: 15 May 2018 02:02
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

 

Thanks for sharing the proper shortcut.

 

I'm curious why hasn't NVDA been configured to speak these "Actions" when they dynamically appear in Google Chrome? This is the only issue I have with the browser.

 

You click on a link to download a file and you have no idea the download has started. You have to hit Ctrl+j to bring up the Download Manager to check. Even other Actions aren't spoken automatically by NVDA for the Chrome browser.

 

Can't that cool NVDA installation progress sound be configured to activate for the download progress for Chrome too?

 

On 5/14/2018 5:21 PM, Steve Nutt wrote:

Hi,

 

Alt+Shif    t+A should get you into what Chrome calls Actions, which are the notifications.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kenny
Sent: 10 May 2018 04:31
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

 

Can you please share your tutorial with the list again?

 

I'm hoping you gone over a work around to have the messages being pushed to Chrome's notification bar automatically read by NVDA?

 

Also what is the shortcut key to be placed in the notification bar? The alt+n key combination doesn't seem to work. Thanks.

 

On 5/6/2018 6:21 PM, David Moore wrote:


Hi all!

I have been telling people just how great Chrome is for two and a half years.

I am so happy that all of you are finding it to be true.

If anyone needs my text tutorial I wrote on how to use Chrome, and take you through all settings, I will paste it on the list.

I have done this around ten times on all the lists, but you are still finding out for the first time, just how great Chrome is.

Just read works great for just reading an article on the page.

CTRL+J allows you to hear the status of the downloads. Now, CTRL+Shift+O allows you to open the bookmarks manager, and you can arrange them in different folders and back them up.

Chrome is great with Youtube, and streaming media. Chrome is good for a lot other than just simple browsing.

Have a great one, and I am celebrating that you are finally getting used to Chrome!

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: juan gonzalez
Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2018 5:23 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

 

I use the add on called sound on for navigational sounds.

 

-----Original Message-----

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io

Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2018 9:28 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it much more now

 

Would anyone know if Chrome has sounds? one of the annoyances with current firefox is figuring out when downloads are finished or when a page is refreshing itself, ie you normally hear the ticks  in the old version due to navigational sounds.

Until i find a browser with this function of sound I'm loathe to get a new browser over ff52, but the problem is that I've been reading that some sites now do not support the old versions of Firefox and tell you so when you have things like modal windows whatever they are.

On XP to make Firefox perform even reasonably you need to use a version 45, as after this the actual load up times are hugely slowed, my guess is that the code is made for multi processor  devices, not single core ones.This is also why on xp you might find that Chrome and firefox are similar in page loading times.

 

Things are no pushing ahead so fast on sites that its not uncommon to see the message you browser is unsupported get this or that then you can come back.

To me this is a weird thing for commercial sites to do, as they are, in effect pushing away potential customers, but hey, that is their business.

Brian

 

bglists@...

Sent via blueyonder.

Please address personal E-mail to:-

briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'

in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----

From: "Gene" <gsasner@...>

To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>

Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2018 10:57 AM

Subject: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it much more now

 

 

I may have sent messages in the past in which I expressed a much stronger liking for Firefox than Chrome.  At this point, I've changed my mind and, unless things change over time, as they may as Firefox continues to implement its new internal technical changes, I consider Chrome to be superior for general browsing. I haven't tested it for uses such as streaming or RSS or other uses.  I will therefore only address general browsing and the interface.  Others may want to comment on other aspects I haven't compared.

 

This is a long message, a bit of a review and a bit of discussion of the interface.  I hope those interested in the subject find it useful.

 

If you try Chrome and find it superior for general browsing, you may still not want to use Chrome as your main browser.  There are various considerations.  I'll explain why I changed my mind and what you may want to consider.  You may have other or different considerations as well.

 

The reason I say Chrome is better for general browsing is because it loads pages faster than Firefox.  You may want to compare and see if the difference is important to you.  There is a very noticeable difference.  I hadn't compared Chrome with Firefox for speed on a fast machine.  I compared them on a slow machine running XP perhaps six or eight months ago.  I had expected that, if Chrome was faster, there would have been a noticeable difference, even though the machine was slow.  But there wasn't a difference that amounted to anything.

 

I recently decided to compare on a reasonably fast machine running Windows 7 since many people have said on lists I'm on that Chrome is faster.  There is a very noticeable difference in speed on my Windows 7 machine.  I don't know what the results would have been on a fast XP machine.

 

I haven't used Chrome much but the increase in speed is the reason I say it's better for general browsing.

 

The Chrome interface is different than Firefox or Internet Explorer.  It isn't difficult to learn but it is different.  You will likely want a tutorial or some instructional material.  If you are good at learning by exploring, you may not want or need such material, at least not to use in depth, but you may benefit in early learning by using material.

 

The main things to know in terms of the differences in the interface are that Chrome shows many things as web pages, such as settings and history and there is one menu, which you can open with alt f, that is, hold alt and press f.  Of course, there are submenus and there are also items that open like web pages such as settings.

 

I don't recall if there are classic dialogs that open from the main menu.

But if you work with settings, you need to know that the settings interface doesn't work quite properly in the following way:

It's a web page-like interface but there some controls that don't work as they should.  I tried to activate two buttons today and I couldn't do so in browse mode using NVDA.  I don't know what JAWS does.  I had to manually go into forms mode, and activate the buttons.  I may have had to tab to the button because forms mode may not have been properly calibrated with browse mode in that interface, at least at times.

 

I seem to recall that in another instance, I needed to be in browse mode to activate something but I'd have to experiment more to know if that is the case since I don't have a clear memory of whether that was necessary.

 

There's a very useful settings search feature in settings.

 

One of my main objections to Chrome in the past was that the book marks interface is not nearly as comvenient to work with as Firefox because the search feature in Chrome book marks appears to be inaccessible.  I very recently learned from someone on a list I follow that this problem can be more or less eliminated.  I say more or less because I haven't played with it much, but enough to see that it works well or reasonably well.  I'm hedging because I'd want to play with it more before saying just how well it works.  It' appears to work well from the very little testing I've done.  If you are in the address bar, you can type some or all of what you want to find such as york times or new york times and you can up and down arrow through results.  Some of them will be search results using a search engine but the top results in the list should be from book marks and history.  Try reading the current line after typing to see if that contains the first result.  I haven't played with the feature more than a little and I'm not sure.  But if it works well, this would eliminate what I consider to be an important deficiency. In other words, this feature may make book marks just as easy to use in Chrome as in Firefox.

 

If you use Firefox extensions that you consider important and use them a lot, that may be a consideration in which browser you want to use.  and then, there's just convenience of not learning a new interface and continuing to use the familiar Firefox.  You, of course, can determine questions like that.  It's nice to have pages load a good deal faster, but the importance of speed may vary from user to user.  But if you haven't compared with a hands on test, you may wish to.

 

Browsing is either identical or nearly identical between the browsers because they both use browse mode, or the Virtual PC cursor, which is the JAWS name for the same thing.

 

So you can compare by installing Chrome, and then opening and using some web sites.  Control l moves you to the address bar, just as in Firefox.  I believe when you open Chrome, you are automatically placed on the address bar, but you can check.  If you want to make sure, it takes almost no time to execute control l.

 

I hope those who are interested in this subject find these comments useful.

If people are curious or dissatisfied with Firefox or another browser, they may want to try Chrome.  I haven't used Edge at all so I don't know how Edge compares.

 

Gene

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



Re: Using BrailleNote touch as a display w/NVDA

Brian's Mail list account
 

There do seem to be a number of rough edges in the add ons and other bits and bobs in the user guide to iron out and then you will get an RC to break, erm test!

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Rosemarie Chavarria" <knitqueen2007@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 4:39 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Using BrailleNote touch as a display w/NVDA


Oh, I see. My mistake.




On 5/14/2018 8:38 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi,
Likely June.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2018 8:38 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Using BrailleNote touch as a display w/NVDA

Probably sometime next week.



On 5/14/2018 7:31 PM, Jessica D wrote:
Hi,
When will NVDA 2018.2 be available?

Thanks,
Jessica
On May 14, 2018, at 8:15 PM, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:

Hi,
Can you tell your client the following:
BrailleNote Touch will be supported again in NVDA 2018.2.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jackie
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2018 3:17 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Using BrailleNote touch as a display w/NVDA

A client is trying to use her BrailleNote Touch as a display w/NVDA over bluetooth. It used to be that it worked w/the brailliant option, though in the latest NVDA version, that isn't even available in the Braille settings. Any reason it disappeared? We've tried using the Baum/HumanWare/Orbit/APH & also the Braille Note setting, to no avail.

--
Remember! Friends Help Friends Be Cybersafe Jackie McBride Helping
Cybercrime Victims 1 Person at a Time https://brighter-vision.com










Re: Using BrailleNote touch as a display w/NVDA

Brian's Mail list account
 

Does this mean if the client uses the master snap it will work then?
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 1:15 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Using BrailleNote touch as a display w/NVDA


Hi,
Can you tell your client the following:
BrailleNote Touch will be supported again in NVDA 2018.2.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jackie
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2018 3:17 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Using BrailleNote touch as a display w/NVDA

A client is trying to use her BrailleNote Touch as a display w/NVDA over bluetooth. It used to be that it worked w/the brailliant option, though in the latest NVDA version, that isn't even available in the Braille settings. Any reason it disappeared? We've tried using the Baum/HumanWare/Orbit/APH & also the Braille Note setting, to no avail.

--
Remember! Friends Help Friends Be Cybersafe Jackie McBride Helping Cybercrime Victims 1 Person at a Time https://brighter-vision.com


screenwriting software that works with NVDA

Giles Turnbull
 

Hi all,

has anybody used screenwriting programs successfully with NVDA? When I start my MA in creative writing in October I'd like to take the movie/TV screenwriting module, but am going to need to use software to handle the routine screenwriting formatting. I'd appreciate any suggestions on which software works well with NVDA and any that doesn't.

Grateful for any suggestions ... I know what software is available but do not know anybody who has used them with a screen reader :)

Giles


Re: NVDA master snapshot and vs2017 don't work well at this stage.

Brian's Mail list account
 

I don't know about visual studio, but certainly some odd things are going on on some web pages which I put down to quirky web sites.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Jaffar Sidek" <jaffar.sidek10@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 10:34 AM
Subject: [nvda] NVDA master snapshot and vs2017 don't work well at this stage.


Hi. I am bringing this up so that when NVDA 18.2 comes out, the visual studio's 2017 accessibility with NVDA will still be maintained. One bug that I have noticed is that when I try to include or libraries that I need for my project from other frameworks or development tools through the property manager for C or C++ development, NVDA won't allow you to type in the edit box that matters. Pressing the keys will just produce a beep sound, just as in Read Only edit boxes. I have the visual studio addon installed and I don't know if it is messing up with NVDA's ability to access visual studio on it's own. Clarification is needed here. Also, NVDA tends to say previous items on a list or combo box before you land on the next one. For example, if the first item is "Help" and the second item is "Go",the arrow down key is pressed to go to the next item, NVDA will repeat the first item on the list, then say the second item, as in "Help", "Go", this is especially true for Intellisense which has numerous possibilities, which cuts down on productivity. I hope I am making myself clear here. Cheers!



Re: I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

Gene
 

I had thought, when I read about what alt enter does in a previous message, that it would do the same thing if you type an address.  I see from Brian's message that alt enter evidently only does this when in a list of results from a search that you see by doing a search using that field.  It should take this action when searching for a book mark in this way as well because you are in the same search list.  But it would be good if someone who uses the feature would clarify the points.
 
I say, off an on, never to assume in unfamiliar contexts or environments when dealing with computers.  I assumed what would happen when typing an address and not being in the list and that assumption may well be wrong.  Experimentation is fine, but you can't assume in an unfamiliar context when dealing with computers.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
 

From: Gene
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 8:54 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

I'm not sure Firefox informs you when a popup has been blocked.  I don't recall seeing such messages.  You can never assume anything in unfamiliar environments. I don't use Chrome enough to know if message information isn't automatically read.  But taking the same action repeatedly, time after time, in any context dealing with computers accomplishes nothing in general.  It assumes that computers are illogical and that repeating the same failed action many times will produce a different result.  If two or three times  doesn't accomplish anything, repetition further is very unlikely to.  Repeating something a time or two may produce results because some transient condition may prevent the command from being carried out. 
 
But the first question is, are status messages not read in Chrome and to answer that question, we need to know what actions produce them, then test by taking those specific actions.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Kenny
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 7:06 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

And if you use Microsoft Edge or FireFox, you're immediately informed via a notification bar message that a file has been queued and if you wish to "Run" or "Save" it. NVDA automatically reads these messages with no problems.


OK, so you use the Download Manager to monitor if a download has started in Chrome. What do you do to know if a pop-up was blocked on a page, and you're clicking the link over and over again not knowing what the hell is going on? Maybe if NVDA read the dynamic message informing you that a popup was blocked, then you could take an "Action" to disable the blocker for that page?


So my problem deals with NVDA not automatically reading any dynamic content displayed in this Chrome Actions bar.


On 5/15/2018 4:20 AM, Steve Nutt wrote:

Hi Kenny,

 

I’m not aware that downloads speak in any screen reader.  I believe this should be a Chrome change.

 

However, it’s easy enough for me to press Control-J and go look at the percentages.  Once it’s in focus, it should be read to you.

 

All the best


Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kenny
Sent: 15 May 2018 02:02
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

 

Thanks for sharing the proper shortcut.

 

I'm curious why hasn't NVDA been configured to speak these "Actions" when they dynamically appear in Google Chrome? This is the only issue I have with the browser.

 

You click on a link to download a file and you have no idea the download has started. You have to hit Ctrl+j to bring up the Download Manager to check. Even other Actions aren't spoken automatically by NVDA for the Chrome browser.

 

Can't that cool NVDA installation progress sound be configured to activate for the download progress for Chrome too?

 

On 5/14/2018 5:21 PM, Steve Nutt wrote:

Hi,

 

Alt+Shif    t+A should get you into what Chrome calls Actions, which are the notifications.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kenny
Sent: 10 May 2018 04:31
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

 

Can you please share your tutorial with the list again?

 

I'm hoping you gone over a work around to have the messages being pushed to Chrome's notification bar automatically read by NVDA?

 

Also what is the shortcut key to be placed in the notification bar? The alt+n key combination doesn't seem to work. Thanks.

 

On 5/6/2018 6:21 PM, David Moore wrote:


Hi all!

I have been telling people just how great Chrome is for two and a half years.

I am so happy that all of you are finding it to be true.

If anyone needs my text tutorial I wrote on how to use Chrome, and take you through all settings, I will paste it on the list.

I have done this around ten times on all the lists, but you are still finding out for the first time, just how great Chrome is.

Just read works great for just reading an article on the page.

CTRL+J allows you to hear the status of the downloads. Now, CTRL+Shift+O allows you to open the bookmarks manager, and you can arrange them in different folders and back them up.

Chrome is great with Youtube, and streaming media. Chrome is good for a lot other than just simple browsing.

Have a great one, and I am celebrating that you are finally getting used to Chrome!

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: juan gonzalez
Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2018 5:23 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

 

I use the add on called sound on for navigational sounds.

 

-----Original Message-----

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io

Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2018 9:28 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it much more now

 

Would anyone know if Chrome has sounds? one of the annoyances with current firefox is figuring out when downloads are finished or when a page is refreshing itself, ie you normally hear the ticks  in the old version due to navigational sounds.

Until i find a browser with this function of sound I'm loathe to get a new browser over ff52, but the problem is that I've been reading that some sites now do not support the old versions of Firefox and tell you so when you have things like modal windows whatever they are.

On XP to make Firefox perform even reasonably you need to use a version 45, as after this the actual load up times are hugely slowed, my guess is that the code is made for multi processor  devices, not single core ones.This is also why on xp you might find that Chrome and firefox are similar in page loading times.

 

Things are no pushing ahead so fast on sites that its not uncommon to see the message you browser is unsupported get this or that then you can come back.

To me this is a weird thing for commercial sites to do, as they are, in effect pushing away potential customers, but hey, that is their business.

Brian

 

bglists@...

Sent via blueyonder.

Please address personal E-mail to:-

briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'

in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----

From: "Gene" <gsasner@...>

To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>

Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2018 10:57 AM

Subject: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it much more now

 

 

I may have sent messages in the past in which I expressed a much stronger liking for Firefox than Chrome.  At this point, I've changed my mind and, unless things change over time, as they may as Firefox continues to implement its new internal technical changes, I consider Chrome to be superior for general browsing. I haven't tested it for uses such as streaming or RSS or other uses.  I will therefore only address general browsing and the interface.  Others may want to comment on other aspects I haven't compared.

 

This is a long message, a bit of a review and a bit of discussion of the interface.  I hope those interested in the subject find it useful.

 

If you try Chrome and find it superior for general browsing, you may still not want to use Chrome as your main browser.  There are various considerations.  I'll explain why I changed my mind and what you may want to consider.  You may have other or different considerations as well.

 

The reason I say Chrome is better for general browsing is because it loads pages faster than Firefox.  You may want to compare and see if the difference is important to you.  There is a very noticeable difference.  I hadn't compared Chrome with Firefox for speed on a fast machine.  I compared them on a slow machine running XP perhaps six or eight months ago.  I had expected that, if Chrome was faster, there would have been a noticeable difference, even though the machine was slow.  But there wasn't a difference that amounted to anything.

 

I recently decided to compare on a reasonably fast machine running Windows 7 since many people have said on lists I'm on that Chrome is faster.  There is a very noticeable difference in speed on my Windows 7 machine.  I don't know what the results would have been on a fast XP machine.

 

I haven't used Chrome much but the increase in speed is the reason I say it's better for general browsing.

 

The Chrome interface is different than Firefox or Internet Explorer.  It isn't difficult to learn but it is different.  You will likely want a tutorial or some instructional material.  If you are good at learning by exploring, you may not want or need such material, at least not to use in depth, but you may benefit in early learning by using material.

 

The main things to know in terms of the differences in the interface are that Chrome shows many things as web pages, such as settings and history and there is one menu, which you can open with alt f, that is, hold alt and press f.  Of course, there are submenus and there are also items that open like web pages such as settings.

 

I don't recall if there are classic dialogs that open from the main menu.

But if you work with settings, you need to know that the settings interface doesn't work quite properly in the following way:

It's a web page-like interface but there some controls that don't work as they should.  I tried to activate two buttons today and I couldn't do so in browse mode using NVDA.  I don't know what JAWS does.  I had to manually go into forms mode, and activate the buttons.  I may have had to tab to the button because forms mode may not have been properly calibrated with browse mode in that interface, at least at times.

 

I seem to recall that in another instance, I needed to be in browse mode to activate something but I'd have to experiment more to know if that is the case since I don't have a clear memory of whether that was necessary.

 

There's a very useful settings search feature in settings.

 

One of my main objections to Chrome in the past was that the book marks interface is not nearly as comvenient to work with as Firefox because the search feature in Chrome book marks appears to be inaccessible.  I very recently learned from someone on a list I follow that this problem can be more or less eliminated.  I say more or less because I haven't played with it much, but enough to see that it works well or reasonably well.  I'm hedging because I'd want to play with it more before saying just how well it works.  It' appears to work well from the very little testing I've done.  If you are in the address bar, you can type some or all of what you want to find such as york times or new york times and you can up and down arrow through results.  Some of them will be search results using a search engine but the top results in the list should be from book marks and history.  Try reading the current line after typing to see if that contains the first result.  I haven't played with the feature more than a little and I'm not sure.  But if it works well, this would eliminate what I consider to be an important deficiency. In other words, this feature may make book marks just as easy to use in Chrome as in Firefox.

 

If you use Firefox extensions that you consider important and use them a lot, that may be a consideration in which browser you want to use.  and then, there's just convenience of not learning a new interface and continuing to use the familiar Firefox.  You, of course, can determine questions like that.  It's nice to have pages load a good deal faster, but the importance of speed may vary from user to user.  But if you haven't compared with a hands on test, you may wish to.

 

Browsing is either identical or nearly identical between the browsers because they both use browse mode, or the Virtual PC cursor, which is the JAWS name for the same thing.

 

So you can compare by installing Chrome, and then opening and using some web sites.  Control l moves you to the address bar, just as in Firefox.  I believe when you open Chrome, you are automatically placed on the address bar, but you can check.  If you want to make sure, it takes almost no time to execute control l.

 

I hope those who are interested in this subject find these comments useful.

If people are curious or dissatisfied with Firefox or another browser, they may want to try Chrome.  I haven't used Edge at all so I don't know how Edge compares.

 

Gene

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



Re: I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

Gene
 

I'm not sure Firefox informs you when a popup has been blocked.  I don't recall seeing such messages.  You can never assume anything in unfamiliar environments. I don't use Chrome enough to know if message information isn't automatically read.  But taking the same action repeatedly, time after time, in any context dealing with computers accomplishes nothing in general.  It assumes that computers are illogical and that repeating the same failed action many times will produce a different result.  If two or three times  doesn't accomplish anything, repetition further is very unlikely to.  Repeating something a time or two may produce results because some transient condition may prevent the command from being carried out. 
 
But the first question is, are status messages not read in Chrome and to answer that question, we need to know what actions produce them, then test by taking those specific actions.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Kenny
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 7:06 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

And if you use Microsoft Edge or FireFox, you're immediately informed via a notification bar message that a file has been queued and if you wish to "Run" or "Save" it. NVDA automatically reads these messages with no problems.


OK, so you use the Download Manager to monitor if a download has started in Chrome. What do you do to know if a pop-up was blocked on a page, and you're clicking the link over and over again not knowing what the hell is going on? Maybe if NVDA read the dynamic message informing you that a popup was blocked, then you could take an "Action" to disable the blocker for that page?


So my problem deals with NVDA not automatically reading any dynamic content displayed in this Chrome Actions bar.


On 5/15/2018 4:20 AM, Steve Nutt wrote:

Hi Kenny,

 

I’m not aware that downloads speak in any screen reader.  I believe this should be a Chrome change.

 

However, it’s easy enough for me to press Control-J and go look at the percentages.  Once it’s in focus, it should be read to you.

 

All the best


Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kenny
Sent: 15 May 2018 02:02
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

 

Thanks for sharing the proper shortcut.

 

I'm curious why hasn't NVDA been configured to speak these "Actions" when they dynamically appear in Google Chrome? This is the only issue I have with the browser.

 

You click on a link to download a file and you have no idea the download has started. You have to hit Ctrl+j to bring up the Download Manager to check. Even other Actions aren't spoken automatically by NVDA for the Chrome browser.

 

Can't that cool NVDA installation progress sound be configured to activate for the download progress for Chrome too?

 

On 5/14/2018 5:21 PM, Steve Nutt wrote:

Hi,

 

Alt+Shif    t+A should get you into what Chrome calls Actions, which are the notifications.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kenny
Sent: 10 May 2018 04:31
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

 

Can you please share your tutorial with the list again?

 

I'm hoping you gone over a work around to have the messages being pushed to Chrome's notification bar automatically read by NVDA?

 

Also what is the shortcut key to be placed in the notification bar? The alt+n key combination doesn't seem to work. Thanks.

 

On 5/6/2018 6:21 PM, David Moore wrote:


Hi all!

I have been telling people just how great Chrome is for two and a half years.

I am so happy that all of you are finding it to be true.

If anyone needs my text tutorial I wrote on how to use Chrome, and take you through all settings, I will paste it on the list.

I have done this around ten times on all the lists, but you are still finding out for the first time, just how great Chrome is.

Just read works great for just reading an article on the page.

CTRL+J allows you to hear the status of the downloads. Now, CTRL+Shift+O allows you to open the bookmarks manager, and you can arrange them in different folders and back them up.

Chrome is great with Youtube, and streaming media. Chrome is good for a lot other than just simple browsing.

Have a great one, and I am celebrating that you are finally getting used to Chrome!

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: juan gonzalez
Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2018 5:23 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

 

I use the add on called sound on for navigational sounds.

 

-----Original Message-----

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io

Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2018 9:28 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it much more now

 

Would anyone know if Chrome has sounds? one of the annoyances with current firefox is figuring out when downloads are finished or when a page is refreshing itself, ie you normally hear the ticks  in the old version due to navigational sounds.

Until i find a browser with this function of sound I'm loathe to get a new browser over ff52, but the problem is that I've been reading that some sites now do not support the old versions of Firefox and tell you so when you have things like modal windows whatever they are.

On XP to make Firefox perform even reasonably you need to use a version 45, as after this the actual load up times are hugely slowed, my guess is that the code is made for multi processor  devices, not single core ones.This is also why on xp you might find that Chrome and firefox are similar in page loading times.

 

Things are no pushing ahead so fast on sites that its not uncommon to see the message you browser is unsupported get this or that then you can come back.

To me this is a weird thing for commercial sites to do, as they are, in effect pushing away potential customers, but hey, that is their business.

Brian

 

bglists@...

Sent via blueyonder.

Please address personal E-mail to:-

briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'

in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----

From: "Gene" <gsasner@...>

To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>

Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2018 10:57 AM

Subject: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it much more now

 

 

I may have sent messages in the past in which I expressed a much stronger liking for Firefox than Chrome.  At this point, I've changed my mind and, unless things change over time, as they may as Firefox continues to implement its new internal technical changes, I consider Chrome to be superior for general browsing. I haven't tested it for uses such as streaming or RSS or other uses.  I will therefore only address general browsing and the interface.  Others may want to comment on other aspects I haven't compared.

 

This is a long message, a bit of a review and a bit of discussion of the interface.  I hope those interested in the subject find it useful.

 

If you try Chrome and find it superior for general browsing, you may still not want to use Chrome as your main browser.  There are various considerations.  I'll explain why I changed my mind and what you may want to consider.  You may have other or different considerations as well.

 

The reason I say Chrome is better for general browsing is because it loads pages faster than Firefox.  You may want to compare and see if the difference is important to you.  There is a very noticeable difference.  I hadn't compared Chrome with Firefox for speed on a fast machine.  I compared them on a slow machine running XP perhaps six or eight months ago.  I had expected that, if Chrome was faster, there would have been a noticeable difference, even though the machine was slow.  But there wasn't a difference that amounted to anything.

 

I recently decided to compare on a reasonably fast machine running Windows 7 since many people have said on lists I'm on that Chrome is faster.  There is a very noticeable difference in speed on my Windows 7 machine.  I don't know what the results would have been on a fast XP machine.

 

I haven't used Chrome much but the increase in speed is the reason I say it's better for general browsing.

 

The Chrome interface is different than Firefox or Internet Explorer.  It isn't difficult to learn but it is different.  You will likely want a tutorial or some instructional material.  If you are good at learning by exploring, you may not want or need such material, at least not to use in depth, but you may benefit in early learning by using material.

 

The main things to know in terms of the differences in the interface are that Chrome shows many things as web pages, such as settings and history and there is one menu, which you can open with alt f, that is, hold alt and press f.  Of course, there are submenus and there are also items that open like web pages such as settings.

 

I don't recall if there are classic dialogs that open from the main menu.

But if you work with settings, you need to know that the settings interface doesn't work quite properly in the following way:

It's a web page-like interface but there some controls that don't work as they should.  I tried to activate two buttons today and I couldn't do so in browse mode using NVDA.  I don't know what JAWS does.  I had to manually go into forms mode, and activate the buttons.  I may have had to tab to the button because forms mode may not have been properly calibrated with browse mode in that interface, at least at times.

 

I seem to recall that in another instance, I needed to be in browse mode to activate something but I'd have to experiment more to know if that is the case since I don't have a clear memory of whether that was necessary.

 

There's a very useful settings search feature in settings.

 

One of my main objections to Chrome in the past was that the book marks interface is not nearly as comvenient to work with as Firefox because the search feature in Chrome book marks appears to be inaccessible.  I very recently learned from someone on a list I follow that this problem can be more or less eliminated.  I say more or less because I haven't played with it much, but enough to see that it works well or reasonably well.  I'm hedging because I'd want to play with it more before saying just how well it works.  It' appears to work well from the very little testing I've done.  If you are in the address bar, you can type some or all of what you want to find such as york times or new york times and you can up and down arrow through results.  Some of them will be search results using a search engine but the top results in the list should be from book marks and history.  Try reading the current line after typing to see if that contains the first result.  I haven't played with the feature more than a little and I'm not sure.  But if it works well, this would eliminate what I consider to be an important deficiency. In other words, this feature may make book marks just as easy to use in Chrome as in Firefox.

 

If you use Firefox extensions that you consider important and use them a lot, that may be a consideration in which browser you want to use.  and then, there's just convenience of not learning a new interface and continuing to use the familiar Firefox.  You, of course, can determine questions like that.  It's nice to have pages load a good deal faster, but the importance of speed may vary from user to user.  But if you haven't compared with a hands on test, you may wish to.

 

Browsing is either identical or nearly identical between the browsers because they both use browse mode, or the Virtual PC cursor, which is the JAWS name for the same thing.

 

So you can compare by installing Chrome, and then opening and using some web sites.  Control l moves you to the address bar, just as in Firefox.  I believe when you open Chrome, you are automatically placed on the address bar, but you can check.  If you want to make sure, it takes almost no time to execute control l.

 

I hope those who are interested in this subject find these comments useful.

If people are curious or dissatisfied with Firefox or another browser, they may want to try Chrome.  I haven't used Edge at all so I don't know how Edge compares.

 

Gene