Hi,
I can’t even install 1803, even though it’s finally showed up on my system.
Apparently, I’m running out of storage, and cannot free any.

Other than a clean install, what can I do to free up space?

Thanks,
Jessica


Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Joseph Lee
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 12:04 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

Hi,
No, Sets is turned off by default not because it is actually turned off, but because many of you running Windows 10 won’t see it for a while. If you are using Version 1803 (build 17134), rest assured that Sets isn’t part of that release; it is, however, part of recent Windows Insider Preview builds.
As for Sets and NVDA (as of Insider Preview build 17672): it is usable. There are some oddities when you actually launch Sets and try to search for things, but for the most part, it is usable. Part of the usability came due to what NVDA already provides, will provide in 2018.2, future work, and my “writings”:
• What NVDA already provides: support for Microsoft Edge.
• What NVDA will provide in 2018.2: app notification announcement in Windows 10 Version 1709 and later.
• Future work: foundations to support Sets will be laid in the next few months.
• My writings: Windows 10 App Essentials 18.05.2 (tomorrow) will let you see how Sets work in code (as far as the add-on is concerned).
Cheers,
Joseph

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 7:34 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

I believe I read that sets is off by default but I'm not sure.  If not, you can turn them off.  Here is an article that describes how.
https://www.windowscentral.com/how-disable-sets-windows-10
Perhaps, instead of just rejecting the feature out of hand, a little time might be spent learning about them and trying them to see if they would be useful.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: The Gamages via Groups.Io
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 4:59 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

Hello,
Having followed this thread with interest, I am still not sure whether the “sets” issue is on by default or not, if it’s not, then I don’t see the problem, just don’t turn it on until problems with screen readers are resolved. I haven’t got the latest update yet, I have my working hours set to6 am to 12 midnight and the computer is off outside those hours, I got a message recently  something like, “we couldn’t find a time to download updates”, could this be a way of stopping these updates to windows ten? or am I dreaming?, if it works, it could b a way of postponing them until all problems with screen readers are resolved.
I should say that I have Eset smart security on my system and this largely disables Windows defender anyway.
To Steve, I bet you are sad that Window eyes is now defunkt? I also noted from one of FS webinar that Jaws is likely to do away with the 40 minute mode in favour of a 30 day trial, Lots of people can’t afford the price of Jaws, I am lucky enough to have had it for years, Long live NVDA for those who are not in my position. I do understand that Steve runs a well known business and needs to have everything working to do his job, but Jaws hasn’t always been so brilliant, and still isn’t with some third party programs.
Best Regards, Jim.
From: Steve Nutt
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 8:19 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
Well if I was on NVDA only today, I couldn’t do my job.  This is why it’s always good to have more than one screen reader.
Besides, you’re probably not on Windows 10 1803 Spring Creators, which is where these issues started for me.
But saying I should be using NVDA and not JAWS doesn’t really add value to this thread, I merely reported that NVDA is broken for me on several machines.
All the best

Steve
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Walker, Michael E
Sent: 16 May 2018 17:51
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
NVDA is broken? How so? I am on NVDA 2018.1.1. I always tell people thinking about using JAWS that they should be long on NVDA and short on JAWS, since NVDA is free and open source, and provides the same quality. It is kind of like John Wayne’s advice to be long on ears and short on jaws, but with my screen reader twist.
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 11:48 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
Hi,
I have to say, over all, Windows 10 is snappier than Windows 7 ever was.
It’s just these glitches that get us.
What’s odd with this particular issue is that NVDA and Narrator are quite broken, but JAWS is a happy screen reader.  So they are obviously doing some serious hacking to get UIA to work as well as it does with JAWS.
All the best
Steve
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 16 May 2018 17:00
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
That is only true if a lot of users, sighted users, get annoyed enough to matter.  A lot of the changes that inconvenience blind users until they learn how to use them may be intuitive and quickly understood by sighted users.  and, in the case of screen-reader problems, sighted people wouldn't have any of those problems.  Also, as in the new feature of sets, they may not be on by default.  As I recall what I read, sets is off by default.
But every time a new major update to Windows comes out, I see enough blind users have problems that I'm in no hurry to get Windows 10.  Even if the problems are temporary, such as screen-reader problems that are dealt with not too long after the upgrade, Windows 10 has nothing I want that justifies even relatively minor inconveniences time after time.
I'll get it when I get a new computer.  I won't upgrade a machine that is working very well with an earlier version of Windows.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 10:47 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
I think the one thing I'm really annoyed about is that Microsoft keep on
fiddling with things that used to work and making them not work. I have
actually given  up on 10 as a working platform, unless Microsoft can simply
provide a system stable and just with security updates like windows 7. They
are not doing themselves any good by bringing out new versions of windows
every6 months or so in my view, they are going to make Windows 7 into the
keep hold of system just like XP if they are not more careful. Fine have new
features but do not change the whole concept and still call it windows 10.
that is just silly. That is my feeling after being exposed to their messing
about. its as if the developers who used to regularly screw up Skype have
been let loose on the innards of Windows!
Hides behind sofa.  Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 3:44 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

Oh and isn't it time NVDA installed Win 10 essentials automagically if Win
10 is detected?  New users shouldn't certainly have to go hunting for
addons
for their screen reader.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
Sent: 16 May 2018 15:43
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

Hi,

I just downloaded Win 10 essentials stable today, but it doesn't seem to
make much difference.

I must play a bit more.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail
list account via Groups.Io
Sent: 16 May 2018 13:17
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

I expect Joseph will be along soon to ask about the  version of win 10
essentials you have, but have you tried the pre release master snap?
If that fails too then somebody in the development team needs to try to
isolate what makes some machines work and others not.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Nutt" <mailto:steve@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 12:31 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

Hi Jacob,



I have three machines here, all on 1803.  None of them work at all
well with NVDA in Windows 10, in fact, File Explorer is pretty much
unusable, as is Outlook.



At this point, I'm glad I have JAWS as well.  But I don't know why
NVDA is so broken with 1803, more so than JAWS.



All the best


Steve

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jacob
Kruger
Sent: 16 May 2018 09:10
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803



Steve, this sounds almost like an iteration of what I was mentioning -
it seems to fluctuate/vary quite a bit on/off on my one windows 10
1803 machine, which is a lenovo laptop, whereas on my slightly lower
hardware specification desktop machine, that does however have a solid
state operating system drive in it, it actually seems to react a bit
more consistently, in terms of reading out list items, like in file
explorer, to me, and, this is with both of them running windows 10
1803 pro 64 bit, and, currently both running NVDA master snapshot.



Stay well



Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Resistance is futile...but, acceptance is versatile..."

On 5/16/2018 10:03 AM, Steve Nutt wrote:

Hi,



I recently reported that Outlook message lists were not reading for me.



It is in fact worse than that, lists in general don't seem to be reading.
For example, File Explorer in Windows 10 is completely silent for me now.



JAWS is reading lists quite happily.



Any thoughts?



Thanks.



All the best



Steve



--

Computer Room Services

77 Exeter Close

Stevenage

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SG1 4PW

Tel: +44(0)1438-742286

Mob: +44(0)7956-334938

Fax: +44(0)1438-759589

Email:  <mailto:steve@...> steve@...

Web:  <http://www.comproom.co.uk/> http://www.comproom.co.uk

Also, Jessica is using the Windows 10 mail app.  I don't know how to work with that app because I don't have Windows 10 and I haven't looked at it.

Hi,

Your reply was blank.

Can you please send again?

Thanks,

Jessica

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

Hi,

I’m still having trouble installing the 1803 update, and am getting an error message.

I’d like to google it, to figure out what it means.

As a result, I need to copy it  to the system clipboard.

Does anyone know the key command to accomplish this?

Thanks,

Jessica

Here is my previous message.  there may be such a command but I don't know it. 

Hi,

I see the messges, its just that the first one you sent me appeared blank.

Does anyone know the command to copy the last spoken phrase from NVDA to the clipboard?

Thanks,

Jessica

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

To those following this thread:

Hi,

Your reply was blank.

Can you please send again?

Thanks,

Jessica

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

Hi,

I’m still having trouble installing the 1803 update, and am getting an error message.

I’d like to google it, to figure out what it means.

As a result, I need to copy it  to the system clipboard.

Does anyone know the key command to accomplish this?

Thanks,

Jessica

On May 17, 2018, at 3:52 PM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

That's a good message.  I have a question and a comment. 

 

According to what I've read and heard, object navigation is the NVDA equivalent to the JAWS' touch cursor. 

I'm not familiar with Cobra but is there some reason you think the JAWS touch cursor is superior for use with web pages?  I can't tell if you are implying that. 

 

Also, using a screen-reader's find command is an important and underused way to deal with web pages.  Many times, the find command is the best way to find something, such as when you are on a web page, you know or have a good guess about what a link will say, and there are no other efficient ways to move directly to it.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Deborah Armstrong

Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 1:44 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing

This discussion kind of evolved in to talking about browsing with Amazon, but I have some more general ideas. First, do make sure you have IE, Chrome and FireFox and Edge, available and updated, and depending on which pages you visit most often, make the default browser the one that works best with those pages. Be flexible about trying that page with a different browser. Also be sure you keep NVDA updated as well.
Second, remember that sighted people struggle too. My sighted husband was just complaining about Facebook last night; he has to use it for a group he manages. He said he was trying to scroll down to post something on the calendar, and little videos would pop up and play each time he scrolled. It was driving him crazy. He also has issues with the Yahoo groups interface that though not identical to mine are equally tedious and time-wasting.
Third, you can always vote with your fingertips. If I find something difficult to buy on Amazon I use iBOOKS instead of Kindle, Walmart for tangible goods, or even an accessible site like BlindMiceMart. Amazon at least has the dedicated customer service number for disabilities.
Fourth, Make sure you have the JAWS demo, if you need to check something that NVDA is apparently not able to read. I find that NVDA usually reads more than JAWS but every once in a while, something has been scripted for JAWS that makes it possible for JAWS to read it. Also you can use the JAWS touch cursor through the keyboard and that can help locate things.

Fifth: If you have an app like Seeing AI or KNFB Reader, you can get pretty good screen OCR. If you have One-drive you can press Print-Screen and have screen shots saved to your one-drive so you can either try to OCR them or have sighted help look at them for you later.
Sixth: NVDA's object nav works a lot like Cobra, so be sure you practice using it, mostly with applications you are familiar with in the first place.  I find Brailling each keystroke on a separate notecard, so I can flip through a stack of cards, rather than alt-tabbing to a list of keyboard shortcuts to be easier, especially if I'm using object nav and don't want to disturb the screen.

To those following this thread:

Hi,

Your reply was blank.

Can you please send again?

Thanks,

Jessica

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

Hi,

I’m still having trouble installing the 1803 update, and am getting an error message.

I’d like to google it, to figure out what it means.

As a result, I need to copy it  to the system clipboard.

Does anyone know the key command to accomplish this?

Thanks,

Jessica

Hi,

I’m still having trouble installing the 1803 update, and am getting an error message.

I’d like to google it, to figure out what it means.

As a result, I need to copy it  to the system clipboard.

Does anyone know the key command to accomplish this?

Thanks,

Jessica

This discussion kind of evolved in to talking about browsing with Amazon,
but I have some more general ideas. First, do make sure you have IE, Chrome
and FireFox and Edge, available and updated, and depending on which pages
you visit most often, make the default browser the one that works best with
those pages. Be flexible about trying that page with a different browser.
Also be sure you keep NVDA updated as well.
Second, remember that sighted people struggle too. My sighted husband was
just complaining about Facebook last night; he has to use it for a group he
manages. He said he was trying to scroll down to post something on the
calendar, and little videos would pop up and play each time he scrolled. It
was driving him crazy. He also has issues with the Yahoo groups interface
that though not identical to mine are equally tedious and time-wasting.
Third, you can always vote with your fingertips. If I find something
difficult to buy on Amazon I use iBOOKS instead of Kindle, Walmart for
tangible goods, or even an accessible site like BlindMiceMart. Amazon at
least has the dedicated customer service number for disabilities.
Fourth, Make sure you have the JAWS demo, if you need to check something
that NVDA is apparently not able to read. I find that NVDA usually reads
more than JAWS but every once in a while, something has been scripted for
JAWS that makes it possible for JAWS to read it. Also you can use the JAWS
touch cursor through the keyboard and that can help locate things.

Fifth: If you have an app like Seeing AI or KNFB Reader, you can get pretty
good screen OCR. If you have One-drive you can press Print-Screen and have
screen shots saved to your one-drive so you can either try to OCR them or
have sighted help look at them for you later.
Sixth: NVDA's object nav works a lot like Cobra, so be sure you practice
using it, mostly with applications you are familiar with in the first
place.  I find Brailling each keystroke on a separate notecard, so I can
flip through a stack of cards, rather than alt-tabbing to a list of keyboard
shortcuts to be easier, especially if I'm using object nav and don't want to
disturb the screen.

----- Original Message -----

From: Artin Dekker

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 4:40 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Strange behavior of NVDA and Windows 10 at machine startup

Hey,
I indeed noticed the same thing in 1803. The NVDA start-up sound already sounds before I have logged in and then the Ease of access center opens.
Sincerely,
Artin Dekker

Op 17-5-2018 om 14:06 schreef Kostadin Kolev:

Hello all,

I've noticed this strange behavior after the update of Windows 10 to version 1803. The behavior is the following. When the machine starts and Windows 10 loads, it gets to the lock screen as it should. Initially it all looks normal, but only for a while. Moments after that, the lock screen displays not only the time and date as it normally does, but user-specific information as well (e.g. weather forecast, upcoming alarms, etc.). Not only that, but the NVDA startup sound is heard, as if the desktop copy of NVDA is loaded, even though it should load only when the specific user signs in. I can't tell for sure if the desktop copy of NVDA loads, because my NVDA settings for the desktop and secure screen copies of it are the same. On top of that, the "Ease of access" menu appears and NVDA starts reading its menu items one by one. This happens when I power up the machine with "Fast Boot" enabled. I haven't tried with "Fast Boot" disabled, but when I restart the machine, the behavior described above does not occur. So, it must be related to "Fast Boot" somehow. And this did not occur before the update to version 1803 of Windows 10.

Has anyone else experienced the behavior described above? Have you found any solutions besides turning off "Fast Boot"? Turning off "Fast Boot" is also a solution, but I'd prefer to keep it on if possible.

______
Best wishes,
Kostadin Kolev