Date   

Re: Question about Web Browsing

Gene
 

You can't do that with object navigation.  But all these ways of movement are available with quick navigation commands in browsers supporting browse mode or the virtual PC cursor, which is the same thing with a different name. 
 
Gene

----- Original message -----
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 3:47 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing

Hello,
I would say JAWS touch cursor is much more like navigating with Voiceover on the iPhone with the rotar. With the touch cursor you can move by different elements such as buttons or form fields. I don’t believe you can do this with object navigation in NVDA. However I may be wrong on this.

Greg Wocher


On May 17, 2018, at 3:52 PM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

That's a good message.  I have a question and a comment. 
 
According to what I've read and heard, object navigation is the NVDA equivalent to the JAWS' touch cursor. 
I'm not familiar with Cobra but is there some reason you think the JAWS touch cursor is superior for use with web pages?  I can't tell if you are implying that. 
 
Also, using a screen-reader's find command is an important and underused way to deal with web pages.  Many times, the find command is the best way to find something, such as when you are on a web page, you know or have a good guess about what a link will say, and there are no other efficient ways to move directly to it.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 1:44 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing

This discussion kind of evolved in to talking about browsing with Amazon, but I have some more general ideas. First, do make sure you have IE, Chrome and FireFox and Edge, available and updated, and depending on which pages you visit most often, make the default browser the one that works best with those pages. Be flexible about trying that page with a different browser. Also be sure you keep NVDA updated as well.
Second, remember that sighted people struggle too. My sighted husband was just complaining about Facebook last night; he has to use it for a group he manages. He said he was trying to scroll down to post something on the calendar, and little videos would pop up and play each time he scrolled. It was driving him crazy. He also has issues with the Yahoo groups interface that though not identical to mine are equally tedious and time-wasting.
Third, you can always vote with your fingertips. If I find something difficult to buy on Amazon I use iBOOKS instead of Kindle, Walmart for tangible goods, or even an accessible site like BlindMiceMart. Amazon at least has the dedicated customer service number for disabilities.
Fourth, Make sure you have the JAWS demo, if you need to check something that NVDA is apparently not able to read. I find that NVDA usually reads more than JAWS but every once in a while, something has been scripted for JAWS that makes it possible for JAWS to read it. Also you can use the JAWS touch cursor through the keyboard and that can help locate things.

Fifth: If you have an app like Seeing AI or KNFB Reader, you can get pretty good screen OCR. If you have One-drive you can press Print-Screen and have screen shots saved to your one-drive so you can either try to OCR them or have sighted help look at them for you later.
Sixth: NVDA's object nav works a lot like Cobra, so be sure you practice using it, mostly with applications you are familiar with in the first place.  I find Brailling each keystroke on a separate notecard, so I can flip through a stack of cards, rather than alt-tabbing to a list of keyboard shortcuts to be easier, especially if I'm using object nav and don't want to disturb the screen.


Re: Coying the last thing NVDA said to the system clipboard?

Gene
 

Here is my previous message.  there may be such a command but I don't know it. 
 
Are you using the desktop layout and using a numpad on your computer with it?  You can copy text in a setting where there is no cursor by using NVDA review commands to do so.  But before describing the procedure, we need to know if you are using the laptop or desktop layout.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Jessica D
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 3:41 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Coying the last thing NVDA said to the system clipboard?

Hi,

I see the messges, its just that the first one you sent me appeared blank.

 

Does anyone know the command to copy the last spoken phrase from NVDA to the clipboard?

 

Thanks,

Jessica

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 4:29 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Coying the last thing NVDA said to the system clipboard?

 

To those following this thread:

As far as I can tell, I am sending mail as Unicode (UTF-8).  I know I am sending mail as HTML.  These are both standard ways of sending mail for a lot of people.  I don't know why Jessica can't read my mail.  Will others, whith whom Jessica can, we hope, communicate, try to help with this problem?  If she doesn't see my messages, then, I would think, she won't see a lot of list mail.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Jessica D

Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 3:03 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Coying the last thing NVDA said to the system clipboard?

 

Hi,

Your reply was blank.

 

Can you please send again?

 

Thanks,

Jessica

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Jessica D
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 3:18 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Coying the last thing NVDA said to the system clipboard?

 

Hi,

I’m still having trouble installing the 1803 update, and am getting an error message.

 

I’d like to google it, to figure out what it means.

 

As a result, I need to copy it  to the system clipboard.

 

Does anyone know the key command to accomplish this?

 

Thanks,

Jessica

 

 

 


Re: Question about Web Browsing

Greg Wocher
 

Hello,
I would say JAWS touch cursor is much more like navigating with Voiceover on the iPhone with the rotar. With the touch cursor you can move by different elements such as buttons or form fields. I don’t believe you can do this with object navigation in NVDA. However I may be wrong on this.

Greg Wocher


On May 17, 2018, at 3:52 PM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

That's a good message.  I have a question and a comment. 
 
According to what I've read and heard, object navigation is the NVDA equivalent to the JAWS' touch cursor. 
I'm not familiar with Cobra but is there some reason you think the JAWS touch cursor is superior for use with web pages?  I can't tell if you are implying that. 
 
Also, using a screen-reader's find command is an important and underused way to deal with web pages.  Many times, the find command is the best way to find something, such as when you are on a web page, you know or have a good guess about what a link will say, and there are no other efficient ways to move directly to it.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 1:44 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing

This discussion kind of evolved in to talking about browsing with Amazon, but I have some more general ideas. First, do make sure you have IE, Chrome and FireFox and Edge, available and updated, and depending on which pages you visit most often, make the default browser the one that works best with those pages. Be flexible about trying that page with a different browser. Also be sure you keep NVDA updated as well.
Second, remember that sighted people struggle too. My sighted husband was just complaining about Facebook last night; he has to use it for a group he manages. He said he was trying to scroll down to post something on the calendar, and little videos would pop up and play each time he scrolled. It was driving him crazy. He also has issues with the Yahoo groups interface that though not identical to mine are equally tedious and time-wasting.
Third, you can always vote with your fingertips. If I find something difficult to buy on Amazon I use iBOOKS instead of Kindle, Walmart for tangible goods, or even an accessible site like BlindMiceMart. Amazon at least has the dedicated customer service number for disabilities.
Fourth, Make sure you have the JAWS demo, if you need to check something that NVDA is apparently not able to read. I find that NVDA usually reads more than JAWS but every once in a while, something has been scripted for JAWS that makes it possible for JAWS to read it. Also you can use the JAWS touch cursor through the keyboard and that can help locate things.

Fifth: If you have an app like Seeing AI or KNFB Reader, you can get pretty good screen OCR. If you have One-drive you can press Print-Screen and have screen shots saved to your one-drive so you can either try to OCR them or have sighted help look at them for you later.
Sixth: NVDA's object nav works a lot like Cobra, so be sure you practice using it, mostly with applications you are familiar with in the first place.  I find Brailling each keystroke on a separate notecard, so I can flip through a stack of cards, rather than alt-tabbing to a list of keyboard shortcuts to be easier, especially if I'm using object nav and don't want to disturb the screen.


Re: Coying the last thing NVDA said to the system clipboard?

Jessica D <jldail13@...>
 

Hi,

I see the messges, its just that the first one you sent me appeared blank.

 

Does anyone know the command to copy the last spoken phrase from NVDA to the clipboard?

 

Thanks,

Jessica

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 4:29 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Coying the last thing NVDA said to the system clipboard?

 

To those following this thread:

As far as I can tell, I am sending mail as Unicode (UTF-8).  I know I am sending mail as HTML.  These are both standard ways of sending mail for a lot of people.  I don't know why Jessica can't read my mail.  Will others, whith whom Jessica can, we hope, communicate, try to help with this problem?  If she doesn't see my messages, then, I would think, she won't see a lot of list mail.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Jessica D

Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 3:03 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Coying the last thing NVDA said to the system clipboard?

 

Hi,

Your reply was blank.

 

Can you please send again?

 

Thanks,

Jessica

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Jessica D
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 3:18 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Coying the last thing NVDA said to the system clipboard?

 

Hi,

I’m still having trouble installing the 1803 update, and am getting an error message.

 

I’d like to google it, to figure out what it means.

 

As a result, I need to copy it  to the system clipboard.

 

Does anyone know the key command to accomplish this?

 

Thanks,

Jessica

 

 

 


Re: Coying the last thing NVDA said to the system clipboard?

Gene
 

Also, Jessica is using the Windows 10 mail app.  I don't know how to work with that app because I don't have Windows 10 and I haven't looked at it.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 3:29 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Coying the last thing NVDA said to the system clipboard?

To those following this thread:
As far as I can tell, I am sending mail as Unicode (UTF-8).  I know I am sending mail as HTML.  These are both standard ways of sending mail for a lot of people.  I don't know why Jessica can't read my mail.  Will others, whith whom Jessica can, we hope, communicate, try to help with this problem?  If she doesn't see my messages, then, I would think, she won't see a lot of list mail.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Jessica D
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 3:03 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Coying the last thing NVDA said to the system clipboard?

Hi,

Your reply was blank.

 

Can you please send again?

 

Thanks,

Jessica

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Jessica D
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 3:18 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Coying the last thing NVDA said to the system clipboard?

 

Hi,

I’m still having trouble installing the 1803 update, and am getting an error message.

 

I’d like to google it, to figure out what it means.

 

As a result, I need to copy it  to the system clipboard.

 

Does anyone know the key command to accomplish this?

 

Thanks,

Jessica

 

 


Re: Coying the last thing NVDA said to the system clipboard?

Gene
 

To those following this thread:
As far as I can tell, I am sending mail as Unicode (UTF-8).  I know I am sending mail as HTML.  These are both standard ways of sending mail for a lot of people.  I don't know why Jessica can't read my mail.  Will others, whith whom Jessica can, we hope, communicate, try to help with this problem?  If she doesn't see my messages, then, I would think, she won't see a lot of list mail.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Jessica D
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 3:03 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Coying the last thing NVDA said to the system clipboard?

Hi,

Your reply was blank.

 

Can you please send again?

 

Thanks,

Jessica

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Jessica D
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 3:18 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Coying the last thing NVDA said to the system clipboard?

 

Hi,

I’m still having trouble installing the 1803 update, and am getting an error message.

 

I’d like to google it, to figure out what it means.

 

As a result, I need to copy it  to the system clipboard.

 

Does anyone know the key command to accomplish this?

 

Thanks,

Jessica

 

 


Re: Coying the last thing NVDA said to the system clipboard?

Jessica D <jldail13@...>
 

Hi,

Your reply was blank.

 

Can you please send again?

 

Thanks,

Jessica

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Jessica D
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 3:18 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Coying the last thing NVDA said to the system clipboard?

 

Hi,

I’m still having trouble installing the 1803 update, and am getting an error message.

 

I’d like to google it, to figure out what it means.

 

As a result, I need to copy it  to the system clipboard.

 

Does anyone know the key command to accomplish this?

 

Thanks,

Jessica

 

 


Re: Question about Web Browsing

Christopher Gray
 

I couldn't agree with you more about the screen reader Find command. It's essential.

Chris

On Thu, 17 May 2018, Gene wrote:

That's a good message. I have a question and a comment.

According to what I've read and heard, object navigation is the NVDA equivalent to the JAWS' touch cursor.
I'm not familiar with Cobra but is there some reason you think the JAWS touch cursor is superior for use with web pages? I can't tell if you are implying that.

Also, using a screen-reader's find command is an important and underused way to deal with web pages. Many times, the find command is the best way to find something, such as when you are on a web page, you know or have a good guess about what a link will say, and there are no other efficient ways to move directly to it.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Deborah Armstrong
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 1:44 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing


This discussion kind of evolved in to talking about browsing with Amazon, but I have some more general ideas. First, do make sure you have IE, Chrome and FireFox and Edge, available and updated, and depending on which pages you visit most often, make the default browser the one that works best with those pages. Be flexible about trying that page with a different browser. Also be sure you keep NVDA updated as well.
Second, remember that sighted people struggle too. My sighted husband was just complaining about Facebook last night; he has to use it for a group he manages. He said he was trying to scroll down to post something on the calendar, and little videos would pop up and play each time he scrolled. It was driving him crazy. He also has issues with the Yahoo groups interface that though not identical to mine are equally tedious and time-wasting.
Third, you can always vote with your fingertips. If I find something difficult to buy on Amazon I use iBOOKS instead of Kindle, Walmart for tangible goods, or even an accessible site like BlindMiceMart. Amazon at least has the dedicated customer service number for disabilities.
Fourth, Make sure you have the JAWS demo, if you need to check something that NVDA is apparently not able to read. I find that NVDA usually reads more than JAWS but every once in a while, something has been scripted for JAWS that makes it possible for JAWS to read it. Also you can use the JAWS touch cursor through the keyboard and that can help locate things.

Fifth: If you have an app like Seeing AI or KNFB Reader, you can get pretty good screen OCR. If you have One-drive you can press Print-Screen and have screen shots saved to your one-drive so you can either try to OCR them or have sighted help look at them for you later.
Sixth: NVDA's object nav works a lot like Cobra, so be sure you practice using it, mostly with applications you are familiar with in the first place. I find Brailling each keystroke on a separate notecard, so I can flip through a stack of cards, rather than alt-tabbing to a list of keyboard shortcuts to be easier, especially if I'm using object nav and don't want to disturb the screen.
****************************************
Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri Council of the Blind in
your Will or Estate Plan? Contact me as shown below and I can help you with this.

----------------------------------------
Christopher Gray, Executive Director
Missouri Council of the Blind

5453 Chippewa
St. Louis, MO 63109
Phone: (314) 832-7172
Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
Fax: (314) 832-7796

Like Jazz? Want to know more about jazz?
Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global Voice, Chris and Don.
Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M. Pacific
Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.
Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen to
Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.
You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!
Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.


Re: Coying the last thing NVDA said to the system clipboard?

Gene
 

Are you using the desktop layout and using a numpad on your computer with it?  You can copy text in a setting where there is no cursor by using NVDA review commands to do so.  But before describing the procedure, we need to know if you are using the laptop or desktop layout.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Jessica D
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 2:18 PM
Subject: [nvda] Coying the last thing NVDA said to the system clipboard?

Hi,

I’m still having trouble installing the 1803 update, and am getting an error message.

 

I’d like to google it, to figure out what it means.

 

As a result, I need to copy it  to the system clipboard.

 

Does anyone know the key command to accomplish this?

 

Thanks,

Jessica

 


Re: Question about Web Browsing

Gene
 

That's a good message.  I have a question and a comment. 
 
According to what I've read and heard, object navigation is the NVDA equivalent to the JAWS' touch cursor. 
I'm not familiar with Cobra but is there some reason you think the JAWS touch cursor is superior for use with web pages?  I can't tell if you are implying that. 
 
Also, using a screen-reader's find command is an important and underused way to deal with web pages.  Many times, the find command is the best way to find something, such as when you are on a web page, you know or have a good guess about what a link will say, and there are no other efficient ways to move directly to it.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 1:44 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing

This discussion kind of evolved in to talking about browsing with Amazon, but I have some more general ideas. First, do make sure you have IE, Chrome and FireFox and Edge, available and updated, and depending on which pages you visit most often, make the default browser the one that works best with those pages. Be flexible about trying that page with a different browser. Also be sure you keep NVDA updated as well.
Second, remember that sighted people struggle too. My sighted husband was just complaining about Facebook last night; he has to use it for a group he manages. He said he was trying to scroll down to post something on the calendar, and little videos would pop up and play each time he scrolled. It was driving him crazy. He also has issues with the Yahoo groups interface that though not identical to mine are equally tedious and time-wasting.
Third, you can always vote with your fingertips. If I find something difficult to buy on Amazon I use iBOOKS instead of Kindle, Walmart for tangible goods, or even an accessible site like BlindMiceMart. Amazon at least has the dedicated customer service number for disabilities.
Fourth, Make sure you have the JAWS demo, if you need to check something that NVDA is apparently not able to read. I find that NVDA usually reads more than JAWS but every once in a while, something has been scripted for JAWS that makes it possible for JAWS to read it. Also you can use the JAWS touch cursor through the keyboard and that can help locate things.

Fifth: If you have an app like Seeing AI or KNFB Reader, you can get pretty good screen OCR. If you have One-drive you can press Print-Screen and have screen shots saved to your one-drive so you can either try to OCR them or have sighted help look at them for you later.
Sixth: NVDA's object nav works a lot like Cobra, so be sure you practice using it, mostly with applications you are familiar with in the first place.  I find Brailling each keystroke on a separate notecard, so I can flip through a stack of cards, rather than alt-tabbing to a list of keyboard shortcuts to be easier, especially if I'm using object nav and don't want to disturb the screen.


Re: Question about Web Browsing

Christopher Gray
 

Excellent thoughts. Many thanks.

Chris

On Thu, 17 May 2018, Deborah Armstrong wrote:

This discussion kind of evolved in to talking about browsing with Amazon, but I have some more general ideas. First, do make sure you have IE, Chrome and FireFox and Edge, available and updated, and depending on which pages you visit most often, make the default browser the one that works best with those pages. Be flexible about trying that page with a different browser. Also be sure you keep NVDA updated as well.
Second, remember that sighted people struggle too. My sighted husband was just complaining about Facebook last night; he has to use it for a group he manages. He said he was trying to scroll down to post something on the calendar, and little videos would pop up and play each time he scrolled. It was driving him crazy. He also has issues with the Yahoo groups interface that though not identical to mine are equally tedious and time-wasting.
Third, you can always vote with your fingertips. If I find something difficult to buy on Amazon I use iBOOKS instead of Kindle, Walmart for tangible goods, or even an accessible site like BlindMiceMart. Amazon at least has the dedicated customer service number for disabilities.
Fourth, Make sure you have the JAWS demo, if you need to check something that NVDA is apparently not able to read. I find that NVDA usually reads more than JAWS but every once in a while, something has been scripted for JAWS that makes it possible for JAWS to read it. Also you can use the JAWS touch cursor through the keyboard and that can help locate things.

Fifth: If you have an app like Seeing AI or KNFB Reader, you can get pretty good screen OCR. If you have One-drive you can press Print-Screen and have screen shots saved to your one-drive so you can either try to OCR them or have sighted help look at them for you later.
Sixth: NVDA's object nav works a lot like Cobra, so be sure you practice using it, mostly with applications you are familiar with in the first place.  I find Brailling each keystroke on a separate notecard, so I can flip through a stack of cards, rather than alt-tabbing to a list of keyboard shortcuts to be easier, especially if I'm using object nav and don't want to disturb the screen.
****************************************
Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri Council of the Blind in
your Will or Estate Plan? Contact me as shown below and I can help you with this.

----------------------------------------
Christopher Gray, Executive Director
Missouri Council of the Blind

5453 Chippewa
St. Louis, MO 63109
Phone: (314) 832-7172
Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
Fax: (314) 832-7796

Like Jazz? Want to know more about jazz?
Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global Voice, Chris and Don.
Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M. Pacific
Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.
Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen to
Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.
You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!
Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.


Coying the last thing NVDA said to the system clipboard?

Jessica D <jldail13@...>
 

Hi,

I’m still having trouble installing the 1803 update, and am getting an error message.

 

I’d like to google it, to figure out what it means.

 

As a result, I need to copy it  to the system clipboard.

 

Does anyone know the key command to accomplish this?

 

Thanks,

Jessica

 


Re: Question about Web Browsing

Jackie
 

Chris G, Firefox was morphing for awhile, but things have settled back
down on the accesibility front. As you may/may not know, James Teh, 1
of the major contributors to NVDA, is now working w/Mozilla, so...

IE is not as problematic in Win7 as on win10, but basically should for
all intents & purposes be considered dead. No updating will likely be
occurring to take advantage of newly developing web technologies etc.
The result is that it's likely in everyone's best interest to switch
to a browser that's actively being maintained.

On 5/17/18, Deborah Armstrong <debee@...> wrote:
This discussion kind of evolved in to talking about browsing with Amazon,
but I have some more general ideas. First, do make sure you have IE, Chrome
and FireFox and Edge, available and updated, and depending on which pages
you visit most often, make the default browser the one that works best with
those pages. Be flexible about trying that page with a different browser.
Also be sure you keep NVDA updated as well.
Second, remember that sighted people struggle too. My sighted husband was
just complaining about Facebook last night; he has to use it for a group he
manages. He said he was trying to scroll down to post something on the
calendar, and little videos would pop up and play each time he scrolled. It
was driving him crazy. He also has issues with the Yahoo groups interface
that though not identical to mine are equally tedious and time-wasting.
Third, you can always vote with your fingertips. If I find something
difficult to buy on Amazon I use iBOOKS instead of Kindle, Walmart for
tangible goods, or even an accessible site like BlindMiceMart. Amazon at
least has the dedicated customer service number for disabilities.
Fourth, Make sure you have the JAWS demo, if you need to check something
that NVDA is apparently not able to read. I find that NVDA usually reads
more than JAWS but every once in a while, something has been scripted for
JAWS that makes it possible for JAWS to read it. Also you can use the JAWS
touch cursor through the keyboard and that can help locate things.

Fifth: If you have an app like Seeing AI or KNFB Reader, you can get pretty
good screen OCR. If you have One-drive you can press Print-Screen and have
screen shots saved to your one-drive so you can either try to OCR them or
have sighted help look at them for you later.
Sixth: NVDA's object nav works a lot like Cobra, so be sure you practice
using it, mostly with applications you are familiar with in the first
place.  I find Brailling each keystroke on a separate notecard, so I can
flip through a stack of cards, rather than alt-tabbing to a list of keyboard
shortcuts to be easier, especially if I'm using object nav and don't want to
disturb the screen.
--
Remember! Friends Help Friends Be Cybersafe
Jackie McBride
Helping Cybercrime Victims 1 Person at a Time
https://brighter-vision.com


Re: Question about Web Browsing

Deborah Armstrong <debee@...>
 

This discussion kind of evolved in to talking about browsing with Amazon, but I have some more general ideas. First, do make sure you have IE, Chrome and FireFox and Edge, available and updated, and depending on which pages you visit most often, make the default browser the one that works best with those pages. Be flexible about trying that page with a different browser. Also be sure you keep NVDA updated as well.
Second, remember that sighted people struggle too. My sighted husband was just complaining about Facebook last night; he has to use it for a group he manages. He said he was trying to scroll down to post something on the calendar, and little videos would pop up and play each time he scrolled. It was driving him crazy. He also has issues with the Yahoo groups interface that though not identical to mine are equally tedious and time-wasting.
Third, you can always vote with your fingertips. If I find something difficult to buy on Amazon I use iBOOKS instead of Kindle, Walmart for tangible goods, or even an accessible site like BlindMiceMart. Amazon at least has the dedicated customer service number for disabilities.
Fourth, Make sure you have the JAWS demo, if you need to check something that NVDA is apparently not able to read. I find that NVDA usually reads more than JAWS but every once in a while, something has been scripted for JAWS that makes it possible for JAWS to read it. Also you can use the JAWS touch cursor through the keyboard and that can help locate things.

Fifth: If you have an app like Seeing AI or KNFB Reader, you can get pretty good screen OCR. If you have One-drive you can press Print-Screen and have screen shots saved to your one-drive so you can either try to OCR them or have sighted help look at them for you later.
Sixth: NVDA's object nav works a lot like Cobra, so be sure you practice using it, mostly with applications you are familiar with in the first place.  I find Brailling each keystroke on a separate notecard, so I can flip through a stack of cards, rather than alt-tabbing to a list of keyboard shortcuts to be easier, especially if I'm using object nav and don't want to disturb the screen.


Re: Strange behavior of NVDA and Windows 10 at machine startup

Brian's Mail list account
 


Suggestion one of the improvements is sound in safe mode, so one is forced to perhaps wonder if other things are loaded prior to any log in and if the audio is there early, it is heard. but it does not explain the ease of access, unless this means that something has changed and hence its open. A friend of mine has had two machines go silent on reboot from the update. it turned out the sound hardware had been switched to us headphones not the speaker, even though they were not plugged in.
 Brian

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----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 4:40 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Strange behavior of NVDA and Windows 10 at machine startup

Hey,
I indeed noticed the same thing in 1803. The NVDA start-up sound already sounds before I have logged in and then the Ease of access center opens.
Sincerely,
Artin Dekker


Op 17-5-2018 om 14:06 schreef Kostadin Kolev:

Hello all,

I've noticed this strange behavior after the update of Windows 10 to version 1803. The behavior is the following. When the machine starts and Windows 10 loads, it gets to the lock screen as it should. Initially it all looks normal, but only for a while. Moments after that, the lock screen displays not only the time and date as it normally does, but user-specific information as well (e.g. weather forecast, upcoming alarms, etc.). Not only that, but the NVDA startup sound is heard, as if the desktop copy of NVDA is loaded, even though it should load only when the specific user signs in. I can't tell for sure if the desktop copy of NVDA loads, because my NVDA settings for the desktop and secure screen copies of it are the same. On top of that, the "Ease of access" menu appears and NVDA starts reading its menu items one by one. This happens when I power up the machine with "Fast Boot" enabled. I haven't tried with "Fast Boot" disabled, but when I restart the machine, the behavior described above does not occur. So, it must be related to "Fast Boot" somehow. And this did not occur before the update to version 1803 of Windows 10.

Has anyone else experienced the behavior described above? Have you found any solutions besides turning off "Fast Boot"? Turning off "Fast Boot" is also a solution, but I'd prefer to keep it on if possible.

______
Best wishes,
Kostadin Kolev



Re: A tutorial for MP3 Direct Cut

Christopher Gray
 

Yes, much better. Thank you.

Chris

On Thu, 17 May 2018, Antony Stone wrote:

The URL got trunated when the last poster pasted it here.

What you need (all on one line with no spaces in it) is, from "http" to the
secodn instance of "mp3":
http://www.accessibleworld.org/sites/default/files/tt-03-19-12-tutorial-gene-asner-audacity-and-mp3-cut.mp3

Sorry it doesn't fit neatly on one line, but that's common for URLs these
days...


Antony.

On Thursday 17 May 2018 at 17:44:25, Christopher Gray wrote:

Actually, I just tried that link and it gives a page not found message.

Chris
'
On Thu,

17 May 2018, Akbar S. Currim wrote:
Hi,

Actually the link is available in the earlier message contained in the
accompanying thread. The link furnished by Gene is reproduced once
again hereunder:

http://www.accessibleworld.org/sites/default/files/tt-03-19-12-tutorial-g
ene-asner-audacity-and-mp3-

Hope this helps.

Akbar

On 5/16/18, Christopher Gray <chris@...> wrote:
Hi Akbar:

Somehow, I missed the actual link to the mp3direct tutorial. Would you
mind

sending it to
me?

Thanks.

Chris

On Wed, 16 May 2018, Akbar S. Currim wrote:
Hi Gene,

Thanks for the info. I downloaded the file successfully and also
could shut off the playing during download by pressing the pause
button.

Thanks and regards,

Akbar

On 5/16/18, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
When the file starts playing, it is playing in an embedded player in
your
browser. You can save the file by typing control s while the file
plays.
That opens a save as dialog. Save the file as you would working with
any
standard save as dialog. I believe there is an indication of how far
along
the download is and when it finishes you can just stop play and use
the file
that is now on your machine.

If you don't want the file to play while you are saving it, if there
is a
pause button, you should be able to pause it and then issue the
control s
command and save the file.

I don't know if this works in Internet Explorer. It works in Firefox
and
Chrome.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Akbar S. Currim
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 2:53 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] A tutorial for MP3 Direct Cut


Hi,

How do I download the tutorial for reading or listening to later?
When I click on the link it starts playing immediately and I don't
find any download button.

Thanks for any help.

Akbar


On 5/15/18, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io

<bglists@...> wrote:
I think I've got Lame in so many places now I've lost track!

The snag is which is the newest?
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <gsasner@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 2:57 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] A tutorial for MP3 Direct Cut


Regarding my last message, if you want to use Audacity, there is an
error
in

the tutorial which I'll explain if you want to know. The error won't
cause

problems, it just adds an unnecessary step or two when editing. You
may
save time without doing it.

Also, if you just want to edit and not record with MP3 direct Cut,
you may
not need the lame encoder to be placed in the program
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2018 8:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: A tutorial for MP3 Direct Cut


Recently, I said I would send a tutorial about using MP3 Direct Cut
to an
e-mail list. I don't recall if this was the list but, because I
don't remember, I'm sending it here.

The presentation is one file and contains a discussion and
demonstration
of

both audacity and MP3 Direct Cut. You can skim the file until the
MP3 Direct cut part begins.

After the MP3 Direct Cut section, is a discussion on how to decide
what parameters to use to record a file, such as bit rate.

You can listen or download it here:
http://www.accessibleworld.org/sites/default/files/tt-03-19-12-tutori
al-gene-asner-audacity-and-mp3-cut.mp3

Gene
****************************************
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****************************************
Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri Council
of the Blind in your Will or Estate Plan? Contact me as shown below and I
can help you with this.

----------------------------------------
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Missouri Council of the Blind

5453 Chippewa
St. Louis, MO 63109
Phone: (314) 832-7172
Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
Fax: (314) 832-7796

Like Jazz? Want to know more about jazz?
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Like Jazz? Want to know more about jazz?
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Re: Question about Web Browsing

Greg Wocher
 

Hello,
I am also a US bank customer. I do find I can see my transactions on the main website just fine. Also you can download a PDF of your bank statement. I agree there mobile app does need some work. I can pay my credit card with the mobile app but it is frustrating to say the least. I think the issues with the web are due to the fact these sites are trying to make their sites act like desktop apps rather than making them act like a web page. When they do this they forget to add the accessibility into them.

Greg Wocher

On May 17, 2018, at 10:32 AM, Ervin, Glenn <glenn.ervin@...> wrote:

That is interesting about US Bank, that is my bank too.
I don't do on-line banking at this time, but when or if I do, it will probably be with a computer and not a mobile device.
It took a lot of requests from me to get US Bank to put in a talking ATM at the location where I do my banking.
Glenn

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Walker, Michael E
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 7:23 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing

Glenn, your point about sighted people wanting less information on sites made me recall a time, about six months ago, when someone asked me how blind people use computers. I told him about NVDA, and we got to talking about the main Facebook site (not the mobile one or app). I asked him how fancy the site looks from a sighted perspective, and he said that these modern websites wanting to be flashy, fancy apps can get a bit too much for him, too.

I agree with Gene about mobile sites often being inferior to the main site. There is a book: Ensuring Digital Accessibility Through Process and Policy, where it is pointed out as a case of societal discrimination, that the blind are directed to the mobile site, where less services are available. I can vouch for this, from my experiences with U.S. Bank. They said that the mobile site was superior to the main site. After some investigation, I could not view my online statements, but could on the main site, with a crapload of work, since the main site was not designed with accessibility in mind. U.S. Bank also did not design its iPhone app with any accessibility. You could not even pay a bill with VoiceOver on the iPhone app. This is one of the reasons I switched banks. At my new bank, all products are accessible. The mobile app has less features than the main site, but for what I need the main site for, I can use it without any issues. NVDA proficiency is all that is required.

How the hell can a bank get away with being inaccessible?

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Ervin, Glenn
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 4:08 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing

Actually, I think most sighted folk would like a bit less stuff on some of these sites.
I always jump by headings, or by buttons, or I look for edit fields.
Sometimes I search for a specific word, like when I open a product link in eBay, I usually press the find command and type in:
Desc
And that takes me to the description.
I haven't tried it in a long time, but it seems like the M. works for eBay.
Glenn


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Walker, Michael E
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 3:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing

A part of me does think: Why would we promote using a separate site that offers the same service, just because we have a disability? It has been a while since I have used Amazon on a computer, since I always use the app on my iPhone, but I will check into what it would look like, to perhaps even tab past that carousel. As others have said, try other things like headings, elements list with insert+f7, etc. If you know the key phrase or part of it, use CTRL+NVDA+F, to bring up NVDA's find command. Type the part of the phrase you know.

Having to go through developer tools and change how the browser sends the version just for Amazon sounds really cumbersome. If I had to do that, I would contact Amazon's customer service for guidance. I would either send a complaint, or see what information they could offer. See what NVDA features are available from NVDA's user guide that you may not have thought of, for browsing the web.

Overall, there is no one size fits all solution. It really boils down to why you are on Amazon, what you are shopping for, the information you need, and if you need to see the related items that someone earlier mentioned that says, "Items like this one," or whatever it said.

Good luck!

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Devin Prater
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 3:09 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing

This may take some digging around, but see if your browser allows the user agent to be changed. You may have to enable developer mode.

On May 16, 2018, at 3:07 PM, Ervin, Glenn <glenn.ervin@...> wrote:

That is just the regular URL.
Seems like there is some code one can put in their browser settings to always open the mobile version.
Basically, I think that this setting sends the message to the site that this is a mobile device.
Not sure how to do that though.
Otherwise, I don't know what other things to try, since that replacing WWW with an M does not work.
Glenn

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Chris Chaffin
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 3:05 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing


I just went to Amazon.com on my phone, and this is the address it gave:
https://www.amazon.com

Chris


On May 16, 2018, at 3:44 PM, Ervin, Glenn <glenn.ervin@...> wrote:

I just tried:
https://m.amazon.com/
and that does not work.
I know there are other URLs for mobile sites, maybe someone on a phone or tablet can go to Amazon's site and send us the exact URL for the mobile site.
Glenn


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Chris Chaffin
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 2:38 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing


This is the version of the Amazon site I use, and I have no problem going back to the main site if that is what I want.

http://www.amazon.com/access

Hope this helps,

Chris


On May 16, 2018, at 3:26 PM, Walker, Michael E <michael.e.walker3@...> wrote:

Glenn, thank you for submitting the complaint to Amazon about not being able to revert back to the main site, without deleting cookies. I am someone who does find it easier to let a new page load for certain information at certain times. At others, I like everything on one page. For me, it boils down to how busy the specific page is, and how long it takes me to find the information I need, even when I am browsing with screen reader heading commands, tables, by paragraph, etc. So, I do not have a single workflow. It is situational. My point, then, is that people should have the right to choose the browsing method that works best for them. If they prefer the stripped down interface, they should use that. However, when they are ready to revert back to the full version, they should have that right, too.

The workflow I described above is not unique to Amazon. When I use Facebook, it is another one where I usually just like to use m.facebook.com, unless there is something I cannot get from that site, and need the main site.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Ervin, Glenn
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 1:04 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing

It is pretty slimmed down, with separate links for details and reviews and questions and answers.
I make use of all that information, and I don't like having to open a new page or window for that info.
Also, sometimes I like the section called:
You might also like:
And
Other similar items
Neither of which are on the accessible page.
But I had a hell of a time getting my browser to not open it after I opened it once until I went in and removed its cookie and removed it from history.
It just kept coming up, no matter what I typed in for the URL.
I complained to Amazon's use of this, and maybe it does not highjack your browser any more.
Glenn

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Walker, Michael E
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 12:54 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing

I thought I remembered the accessibility link being the same as the mobile site years ago. It must have changed. I know a lot of sites did encourage use of the mobile version for accessibility. It seemed Amazon did at one point. Does anyone know when that changed?

I certainly agree with using headings and other screen reader navigation shortcuts. Try the main site with screen reader proficiency. If that does not work, click on the accessibility link.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Ervin, Glenn
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 12:35 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing

The accessibility link is not the same as the mobile page.
I stopped using the accessible page, and if you go there once, a cookie will need to be manually removed if you ever want the regular page.
Basically, it is more work to get the wanted info from the accessible page, because they are separate links on the page.
And I like all the information from the regular page.
You just need to make use of jumping by headings and the like.
But if there is an actual mobile page, I might like that.
Glenn


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Walker, Michael E
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 11:54 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing

Just go to amazon.com and look for their accessibility link. It may not be labeled "accessibility", but with pressing CTRL+HOME to get to the top of the page and maybe some tabbing, you should find it. I do most of my shopping on my iPhone with Amazon's app.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Christopher Gray
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 11:51 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing

Is that m.amazon.com? They used to have a screenreader-optomized site, but I'm not seeing that link any longer.

Chris

On Wed, 16 May 2018, Walker, Michael E wrote:

You could just use Amazon's mobile site, instead of the main one, if it meets your needs. That will get you around the fancy carousel stuff.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Christopher Gray
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 11:46 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing

With the NVDA internal Find command, let me experiment further and then come back to the list.

Chris

On Wed, 16 May 2018, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
wrote:

Could you expand on the amazon issue. i cannot say I've noticed
this behaviour, though their use of frams and carousel based
suggestions can be a little irritating at times!
Brian

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Please address personal E-mail to:- briang1@...,
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----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Gray"
<chris@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 11:52 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing


Good deal, many thanks.

Chris

On Tue, 15 May 2018, Jackie wrote:

Hello, Christopher. The command you're looking for is NVDA +
control + f. When I say "NVDA", I mean the modifier key you've
chosen as your NVDA key, ie, caps lock, numpad insert, etc. HTH.

On 5/15/18, Christopher Gray <chris@...> wrote:
Hi:

Please forgive a somewhat open-ended question. I come to NVDA
with just over a week of experience, and things have gone
pretty well. Before now, I have been a Cobra users for many
years, back to about 1994, and when necessary a Window-Eyes user.
Those are my points of reference. I have reveiwed and then
read the NVDA User manual on the online Help system and found
it pretty useful.

The area where I'm having some trouble is in web browsing,
mostly on Amazon.com thus far. I am used to having a command
in Cobra,
ctrl+f, which was an internal Find command, not an Internet
Explorer command. Is there an equivalent in NVDA or some
alternative technique available to find things on a screen
without disturbing the screen itself or opening some sort of
mode in the software program itself?? Also, after I choose an
item to examine or purchase on Amazon, that part of the
screen seems to go blank. I don't know how to get things to reset.
Any NVDA advice on this would be most welcome.

I've seen some conversation here about Chrome and if my best
solution is to

start using Chrome, I could do that. Is there
NVDA/Chrome-based information to help me get started?

Any pointers to commands or an overall approach will be very
much appreciated.

Thank you.

Chris

****************************************
Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to
Missouri Council of the Blind in your Will or Estate Plan?
Contact me as shown below and I can help you with this.

----------------------------------------
Christopher Gray, Executive Director Missouri Council of the
Blind

5453 Chippewa
St. Louis, MO 63109
Phone: (314) 832-7172
Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
Fax: (314) 832-7796

Like Jazz? Want to know more about jazz?
Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the
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https://brighter-vision.com


****************************************
Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri
Council of the Blind in your Will or Estate Plan? Contact me
as shown below and I can help you with this.

----------------------------------------
Christopher Gray, Executive Director Missouri Council of the
Blind

5453 Chippewa
St. Louis, MO 63109
Phone: (314) 832-7172
Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
Fax: (314) 832-7796

Like Jazz? Want to know more about jazz?
Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global
Voice, Chris and Don.
Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M.
Pacific
Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.
Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the
"Listen to Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.
You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!
Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.






****************************************
Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri Council of the Blind in your Will or Estate Plan? Contact me as shown below and I can help you with this.

----------------------------------------
Christopher Gray, Executive Director Missouri Council of the Blind

5453 Chippewa
St. Louis, MO 63109
Phone: (314) 832-7172
Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
Fax: (314) 832-7796

Like Jazz? Want to know more about jazz?
Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global Voice, Chris and Don.
Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M. Pacific Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.
Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen to Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.
You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!
Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.









****************************************
Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri Council of the Blind in your Will or Estate Plan? Contact me as shown below and I can help you with this.

----------------------------------------
Christopher Gray, Executive Director Missouri Council of the Blind

5453 Chippewa
St. Louis, MO 63109
Phone: (314) 832-7172
Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
Fax: (314) 832-7796

Like Jazz? Want to know more about jazz?
Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global Voice, Chris and Don.
Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M. Pacific Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.
Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen to Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.
You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!
Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.



















































Re: Strange behavior of NVDA and Windows 10 at machine startup

Sarah k Alawami
 

I noticed that to, but I'm running an ssd drive so I've always had the start chime after nvda speaks the word lock screen.  5 seconds after I hit the power  button.. As for the other information I don't hear it and I didn't change anythign since the big big update.

On May 17, 2018, at 8:40 AM, Artin Dekker <artindekker@...> wrote:

Hey,
I indeed noticed the same thing in 1803. The NVDA start-up sound already sounds before I have logged in and then the Ease of access center opens.
Sincerely,
Artin Dekker


Op 17-5-2018 om 14:06 schreef Kostadin Kolev:

Hello all,

I've noticed this strange behavior after the update of Windows 10 to version 1803. The behavior is the following. When the machine starts and Windows 10 loads, it gets to the lock screen as it should. Initially it all looks normal, but only for a while. Moments after that, the lock screen displays not only the time and date as it normally does, but user-specific information as well (e.g. weather forecast, upcoming alarms, etc.). Not only that, but the NVDA startup sound is heard, as if the desktop copy of NVDA is loaded, even though it should load only when the specific user signs in. I can't tell for sure if the desktop copy of NVDA loads, because my NVDA settings for the desktop and secure screen copies of it are the same. On top of that, the "Ease of access" menu appears and NVDA starts reading its menu items one by one. This happens when I power up the machine with "Fast Boot" enabled. I haven't tried with "Fast Boot" disabled, but when I restart the machine, the behavior described above does not occur. So, it must be related to "Fast Boot" somehow. And this did not occur before the update to version 1803 of Windows 10.

Has anyone else experienced the behavior described above? Have you found any solutions besides turning off "Fast Boot"? Turning off "Fast Boot" is also a solution, but I'd prefer to keep it on if possible.

______
Best wishes,
Kostadin Kolev




Re: Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

Gene
 

I don't know how much of this you know.
 
Are you backing up files on an external drive or in some other way?  You may be able to reclaim disk space by running something like Windows cleanup utilities but if you have a lot of files such as music, pictures, and other files that take a good deal of room, unless you can reclaim a lot of disk space by running cleanup utilities, you should have ways of getting a lot of those files off your computer.  You should have at least two copies so there will be a backup in two different places, such as on two external drives so you can remove files you seldom use from the computer.  there are online backup services as well and if you use one, you should have files on an external hard drive and on a backup service. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Jessica D
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 11:07 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

Hi,

I can’t even install 1803, even though it’s finally showed up on my system.

Apparently, I’m running out of storage, and cannot free any.

 

Other than a clean install, what can I do to free up space?

 

Thanks,

Jessica

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Joseph Lee
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 12:04 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

Hi,

No, Sets is turned off by default not because it is actually turned off, but because many of you running Windows 10 won’t see it for a while. If you are using Version 1803 (build 17134), rest assured that Sets isn’t part of that release; it is, however, part of recent Windows Insider Preview builds.

As for Sets and NVDA (as of Insider Preview build 17672): it is usable. There are some oddities when you actually launch Sets and try to search for things, but for the most part, it is usable. Part of the usability came due to what NVDA already provides, will provide in 2018.2, future work, and my “writings”:

  • What NVDA already provides: support for Microsoft Edge.
  • What NVDA will provide in 2018.2: app notification announcement in Windows 10 Version 1709 and later.
  • Future work: foundations to support Sets will be laid in the next few months.
  • My writings: Windows 10 App Essentials 18.05.2 (tomorrow) will let you see how Sets work in code (as far as the add-on is concerned).

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 7:34 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

I believe I read that sets is off by default but I'm not sure.  If not, you can turn them off.  Here is an article that describes how. 

Perhaps, instead of just rejecting the feature out of hand, a little time might be spent learning about them and trying them to see if they would be useful. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Gene

----- Original Message -----

 

Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 4:59 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

Hello,

 

Having followed this thread with interest, I am still not sure whether the “sets” issue is on by default or not, if it’s not, then I don’t see the problem, just don’t turn it on until problems with screen readers are resolved. I haven’t got the latest update yet, I have my working hours set to6 am to 12 midnight and the computer is off outside those hours, I got a message recently  something like, “we couldn’t find a time to download updates”, could this be a way of stopping these updates to windows ten? or am I dreaming?, if it works, it could b a way of postponing them until all problems with screen readers are resolved.

 

I should say that I have Eset smart security on my system and this largely disables Windows defender anyway.

 

To Steve, I bet you are sad that Window eyes is now defunkt? I also noted from one of FS webinar that Jaws is likely to do away with the 40 minute mode in favour of a 30 day trial, Lots of people can’t afford the price of Jaws, I am lucky enough to have had it for years, Long live NVDA for those who are not in my position. I do understand that Steve runs a well known business and needs to have everything working to do his job, but Jaws hasn’t always been so brilliant, and still isn’t with some third party programs.

 

 

Best Regards, Jim.

 

From: Steve Nutt

Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 8:19 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

Well if I was on NVDA only today, I couldn’t do my job.  This is why it’s always good to have more than one screen reader.

 

Besides, you’re probably not on Windows 10 1803 Spring Creators, which is where these issues started for me.

 

But saying I should be using NVDA and not JAWS doesn’t really add value to this thread, I merely reported that NVDA is broken for me on several machines.

 

All the best


Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Walker, Michael E
Sent: 16 May 2018 17:51
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

NVDA is broken? How so? I am on NVDA 2018.1.1. I always tell people thinking about using JAWS that they should be long on NVDA and short on JAWS, since NVDA is free and open source, and provides the same quality. It is kind of like John Wayne’s advice to be long on ears and short on jaws, but with my screen reader twist.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 11:48 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

Hi,

 

I have to say, over all, Windows 10 is snappier than Windows 7 ever was.

 

It’s just these glitches that get us.

 

What’s odd with this particular issue is that NVDA and Narrator are quite broken, but JAWS is a happy screen reader.  So they are obviously doing some serious hacking to get UIA to work as well as it does with JAWS.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 16 May 2018 17:00
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

That is only true if a lot of users, sighted users, get annoyed enough to matter.  A lot of the changes that inconvenience blind users until they learn how to use them may be intuitive and quickly understood by sighted users.  and, in the case of screen-reader problems, sighted people wouldn't have any of those problems.  Also, as in the new feature of sets, they may not be on by default.  As I recall what I read, sets is off by default.

 

But every time a new major update to Windows comes out, I see enough blind users have problems that I'm in no hurry to get Windows 10.  Even if the problems are temporary, such as screen-reader problems that are dealt with not too long after the upgrade, Windows 10 has nothing I want that justifies even relatively minor inconveniences time after time.

 

I'll get it when I get a new computer.  I won't upgrade a machine that is working very well with an earlier version of Windows.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 10:47 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

I think the one thing I'm really annoyed about is that Microsoft keep on
fiddling with things that used to work and making them not work. I have
actually given  up on 10 as a working platform, unless Microsoft can simply
provide a system stable and just with security updates like windows 7. They
are not doing themselves any good by bringing out new versions of windows
every6 months or so in my view, they are going to make Windows 7 into the
keep hold of system just like XP if they are not more careful. Fine have new
features but do not change the whole concept and still call it windows 10.
that is just silly. That is my feeling after being exposed to their messing
about. its as if the developers who used to regularly screw up Skype have
been let loose on the innards of Windows!
Hides behind sofa.  Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 3:44 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803


> Oh and isn't it time NVDA installed Win 10 essentials automagically if Win
> 10 is detected?  New users shouldn't certainly have to go hunting for
> addons
> for their screen reader.
>
> All the best
>
> Steve
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
> Sent: 16 May 2018 15:43
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>
> Hi,
>
> I just downloaded Win 10 essentials stable today, but it doesn't seem to
> make much difference.
>
> I must play a bit more.
>
> All the best
>
> Steve
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail
> list account via Groups.Io
> Sent: 16 May 2018 13:17
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>
> I expect Joseph will be along soon to ask about the  version of win 10
> essentials you have, but have you tried the pre release master snap?
> If that fails too then somebody in the development team needs to try to
> isolate what makes some machines work and others not.
> Brian
>
> bglists@...
> Sent via blueyonder.
> Please address personal E-mail to:-
> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
> in the display name field.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Nutt" <mailto:steve@...>
> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 12:31 PM
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>
>
>> Hi Jacob,
>>
>>
>>
>> I have three machines here, all on 1803.  None of them work at all
>> well with NVDA in Windows 10, in fact, File Explorer is pretty much
>> unusable, as is Outlook.
>>
>>
>>
>> At this point, I'm glad I have JAWS as well.  But I don't know why
>> NVDA is so broken with 1803, more so than JAWS.
>>
>>
>>
>> All the best
>>
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jacob
>> Kruger
>> Sent: 16 May 2018 09:10
>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>>
>>
>>
>> Steve, this sounds almost like an iteration of what I was mentioning -
>> it seems to fluctuate/vary quite a bit on/off on my one windows 10
>> 1803 machine, which is a lenovo laptop, whereas on my slightly lower
>> hardware specification desktop machine, that does however have a solid
>> state operating system drive in it, it actually seems to react a bit
>> more consistently, in terms of reading out list items, like in file
>> explorer, to me, and, this is with both of them running windows 10
>> 1803 pro 64 bit, and, currently both running NVDA master snapshot.
>>
>>
>>
>> Stay well
>>
>>
>>
>> Jacob Kruger
>> Blind Biker
>> Skype: BlindZA
>> "Resistance is futile...but, acceptance is versatile..."
>>
>> On 5/16/2018 10:03 AM, Steve Nutt wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>>
>>
>> I recently reported that Outlook message lists were not reading for me.
>>
>>
>>
>> It is in fact worse than that, lists in general don't seem to be reading.
>> For example, File Explorer in Windows 10 is completely silent for me now.
>>
>>
>>
>> JAWS is reading lists quite happily.
>>
>>
>>
>> Any thoughts?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>>
>>
>> All the best
>>
>>
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Computer Room Services
>>
>> 77 Exeter Close
>>
>> Stevenage
>>
>> Hertfordshire
>>
>> SG1 4PW
>>
>> Tel: +44(0)1438-742286
>>
>> Mob: +44(0)7956-334938
>>
>> Fax: +44(0)1438-759589
>>
>> Email:  <mailto:steve@...> steve@...
>>
>> Web:  <http://www.comproom.co.uk/> http://www.comproom.co.uk
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

 


Re: problems upgrading to latest next versions

 

I skipped go here. I rolled back to regular 1803. I was on the Windows Insiders program. I was able to run the upgrade this morning fine. Now, there are other issues which have nothing to do with this, and I'll hunt them down as I go.





On 5/17/2018 4:29 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
Can you create a portable version from a download of the most recent version?
If yes then try running that and making an installed copy from it. As I recall it then asks if you want to keep existing settings etc. If that fails then something is very wrong. I've seen locked files cause this looking at the log. Although its supposedly been fixed, the new system  saves files to a different directory and renames the old ones in use and tries to delete these. Sometimes it just gets stuck.
In the end, manually removing  old files in the nvda folders seems to fix the problem for while at least. I see this on windows 7.
There are usually two folders  one for 64 bit and one for 32 bit back ends that cause it. Try deleting the stuff with the oldest  name. If as I suspect it says files in use, then the only way I found to get them out of the way is to reboot windows, go to a portable version. Clean out the clutter, and then try to reinstall.
Unfortunately I had thought it was only myself who had this issue. An associate issue is that the same can occur with the log file when it tries to restart nvda. There is an invisible error which comes up after the running copy terminates but before the new one starts saying that the log file cannot be written to. It is of course being renamed at this point so its obvious this fails and without anyway to log stuff, nvda just stops there.
The way out is esc, then a reboot of nvda from the shortcut.

If its any other cause of course it is unknown to me, but logically its easy to imagine that files get out of sync and cause troubles. I had a similar issue with another piece of software the other day, and fixed it by a reboot, clean out manually then a reinstall and a manual copy of the parameters file.
Messy.

Brian

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----- Original Message ----- From: "Governor staten" <govsta@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 6:14 PM
Subject: [nvda] problems upgrading to latest next versions


Hello. First, I"m running Windows 10, version 1803. When I attempt to update to latest snapshots of Next, it isn't always sure I will be able to upgrade. It can sit there for minutes and nothing happens. It beeps continuously. I eventually terminate the process.


For some reason, unbenounced to me,. I can sometimes get it to install if I change the logging level. This doesn't always work reliably either. How can I troubleshoot this one and get ability to reliably install updates again? This has been going on for a few weeks now. Any help is appreciated. Thanks in advance for whatever you can do.