I agree that find is the best way to position yourself to where you need to go on a complex page. The JAWS touch cursor defaults to being a 2-dimensional sort of replacement for the JAWS cursor because Windows no longer lets applications freely move the mouse. So if you don't have a touchscreen you can simulate its behavior with the keyboard.
But it has an advanced mode for the touch cursor that lets you move through the three-dimensional object model, just like Cobra or NVDA. It is looking at the model through UI automation. 

In my experience, GDrive is more accessible compared to Dropbox, especially the web interface. I use OneDrive as well, but not that often. They all have issues from time to time, far from being perfect, we do agree on that point.

Hi all,



StationPlaylist Studio and Windows 10 App Essentials add-on are getting
stable version updates. These updates serve as a memorial to Marlaina
Lieberg, a long-time member of American Council of the Blind and a champion
of guide dog users, who passed away on May 14, 2018.



In addition to serving as memorials, these add-on releases contain numerous
enhancements and fixes:



* StationPlaylist studio 18.05.1: localization updates.
* Windows 10 App Essentials 18.05.2: introducing basic support for
Sets in Redstone 5 and various workarounds to support redesigned emoji panel
in recent Windows Insider Preview builds.



Also, for those curious about inner workings of Windows 10 App Essentials
add-on, the add-on internals article has been updated:

https://github.com/nvdaaddons/devguide/wiki/w10addoninternals



Enjoy, and if you can, please pay tribute to Marlaina Lieberg this weekend
and and wish her family well and send condolences. Thanks.

Cheers,

Joseph

Hi,

I can’t even install 1803, even though it’s finally showed up on my system.

Apparently, I’m running out of storage, and cannot free any.

 

Other than a clean install, what can I do to free up space?

 

Thanks,

Jessica

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Joseph Lee
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 12:04 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

Hi,

No, Sets is turned off by default not because it is actually turned off, but because many of you running Windows 10 won’t see it for a while. If you are using Version 1803 (build 17134), rest assured that Sets isn’t part of that release; it is, however, part of recent Windows Insider Preview builds.

As for Sets and NVDA (as of Insider Preview build 17672): it is usable. There are some oddities when you actually launch Sets and try to search for things, but for the most part, it is usable. Part of the usability came due to what NVDA already provides, will provide in 2018.2, future work, and my “writings”:

• What NVDA already provides: support for Microsoft Edge.
• What NVDA will provide in 2018.2: app notification announcement in Windows 10 Version 1709 and later.
• Future work: foundations to support Sets will be laid in the next few months.
• My writings: Windows 10 App Essentials 18.05.2 (tomorrow) will let you see how Sets work in code (as far as the add-on is concerned).

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 7:34 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

I believe I read that sets is off by default but I'm not sure.  If not, you can turn them off.  Here is an article that describes how. 

https://www.windowscentral.com/how-disable-sets-windows-10

Perhaps, instead of just rejecting the feature out of hand, a little time might be spent learning about them and trying them to see if they would be useful. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Gene

----- Original Message -----

 

From: The Gamages via Groups.Io

Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 4:59 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

Hello,

 

Having followed this thread with interest, I am still not sure whether the “sets” issue is on by default or not, if it’s not, then I don’t see the problem, just don’t turn it on until problems with screen readers are resolved. I haven’t got the latest update yet, I have my working hours set to6 am to 12 midnight and the computer is off outside those hours, I got a message recently  something like, “we couldn’t find a time to download updates”, could this be a way of stopping these updates to windows ten? or am I dreaming?, if it works, it could b a way of postponing them until all problems with screen readers are resolved.

 

I should say that I have Eset smart security on my system and this largely disables Windows defender anyway.

 

To Steve, I bet you are sad that Window eyes is now defunkt? I also noted from one of FS webinar that Jaws is likely to do away with the 40 minute mode in favour of a 30 day trial, Lots of people can’t afford the price of Jaws, I am lucky enough to have had it for years, Long live NVDA for those who are not in my position. I do understand that Steve runs a well known business and needs to have everything working to do his job, but Jaws hasn’t always been so brilliant, and still isn’t with some third party programs.

 

 

Best Regards, Jim.

 

From: Steve Nutt

Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 8:19 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

Well if I was on NVDA only today, I couldn’t do my job.  This is why it’s always good to have more than one screen reader.

 

Besides, you’re probably not on Windows 10 1803 Spring Creators, which is where these issues started for me.

 

But saying I should be using NVDA and not JAWS doesn’t really add value to this thread, I merely reported that NVDA is broken for me on several machines.

 

All the best

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Walker, Michael E
Sent: 16 May 2018 17:51
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

NVDA is broken? How so? I am on NVDA 2018.1.1. I always tell people thinking about using JAWS that they should be long on NVDA and short on JAWS, since NVDA is free and open source, and provides the same quality. It is kind of like John Wayne’s advice to be long on ears and short on jaws, but with my screen reader twist.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 11:48 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

Hi,

 

I have to say, over all, Windows 10 is snappier than Windows 7 ever was.

 

It’s just these glitches that get us.

 

What’s odd with this particular issue is that NVDA and Narrator are quite broken, but JAWS is a happy screen reader.  So they are obviously doing some serious hacking to get UIA to work as well as it does with JAWS.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 16 May 2018 17:00
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

That is only true if a lot of users, sighted users, get annoyed enough to matter.  A lot of the changes that inconvenience blind users until they learn how to use them may be intuitive and quickly understood by sighted users.  and, in the case of screen-reader problems, sighted people wouldn't have any of those problems.  Also, as in the new feature of sets, they may not be on by default.  As I recall what I read, sets is off by default.

 

But every time a new major update to Windows comes out, I see enough blind users have problems that I'm in no hurry to get Windows 10.  Even if the problems are temporary, such as screen-reader problems that are dealt with not too long after the upgrade, Windows 10 has nothing I want that justifies even relatively minor inconveniences time after time.

 

I'll get it when I get a new computer.  I won't upgrade a machine that is working very well with an earlier version of Windows.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io

Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 10:47 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

I think the one thing I'm really annoyed about is that Microsoft keep on
fiddling with things that used to work and making them not work. I have
actually given  up on 10 as a working platform, unless Microsoft can simply
provide a system stable and just with security updates like windows 7. They
are not doing themselves any good by bringing out new versions of windows
every6 months or so in my view, they are going to make Windows 7 into the
keep hold of system just like XP if they are not more careful. Fine have new
features but do not change the whole concept and still call it windows 10.
that is just silly. That is my feeling after being exposed to their messing
about. its as if the developers who used to regularly screw up Skype have
been let loose on the innards of Windows!
Hides behind sofa.  Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 3:44 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803


> Oh and isn't it time NVDA installed Win 10 essentials automagically if Win
> 10 is detected?  New users shouldn't certainly have to go hunting for
> addons
> for their screen reader.
>
> All the best
>
> Steve
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
> Sent: 16 May 2018 15:43
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>
> Hi,
>
> I just downloaded Win 10 essentials stable today, but it doesn't seem to
> make much difference.
>
> I must play a bit more.
>
> All the best
>
> Steve
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail
> list account via Groups.Io
> Sent: 16 May 2018 13:17
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>
> I expect Joseph will be along soon to ask about the  version of win 10
> essentials you have, but have you tried the pre release master snap?
> If that fails too then somebody in the development team needs to try to
> isolate what makes some machines work and others not.
> Brian
>
> bglists@...
> Sent via blueyonder.
> Please address personal E-mail to:-
> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
> in the display name field.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Nutt" <mailto:steve@...>
> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 12:31 PM
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>
>
>> Hi Jacob,
>>
>>
>>
>> I have three machines here, all on 1803.  None of them work at all
>> well with NVDA in Windows 10, in fact, File Explorer is pretty much
>> unusable, as is Outlook.
>>
>>
>>
>> At this point, I'm glad I have JAWS as well.  But I don't know why
>> NVDA is so broken with 1803, more so than JAWS.
>>
>>
>>
>> All the best
>>
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jacob
>> Kruger
>> Sent: 16 May 2018 09:10
>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>>
>>
>>
>> Steve, this sounds almost like an iteration of what I was mentioning -
>> it seems to fluctuate/vary quite a bit on/off on my one windows 10
>> 1803 machine, which is a lenovo laptop, whereas on my slightly lower
>> hardware specification desktop machine, that does however have a solid
>> state operating system drive in it, it actually seems to react a bit
>> more consistently, in terms of reading out list items, like in file
>> explorer, to me, and, this is with both of them running windows 10
>> 1803 pro 64 bit, and, currently both running NVDA master snapshot.
>>
>>
>>
>> Stay well
>>
>>
>>
>> Jacob Kruger
>> Blind Biker
>> Skype: BlindZA
>> "Resistance is futile...but, acceptance is versatile..."
>>
>> On 5/16/2018 10:03 AM, Steve Nutt wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>>
>>
>> I recently reported that Outlook message lists were not reading for me.
>>
>>
>>
>> It is in fact worse than that, lists in general don't seem to be reading.
>> For example, File Explorer in Windows 10 is completely silent for me now.
>>
>>
>>
>> JAWS is reading lists quite happily.
>>
>>
>>
>> Any thoughts?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>>
>>
>> All the best
>>
>>
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Computer Room Services
>>
>> 77 Exeter Close
>>
>> Stevenage
>>
>> Hertfordshire
>>
>> SG1 4PW
>>
>> Tel: +44(0)1438-742286
>>
>> Mob: +44(0)7956-334938
>>
>> Fax: +44(0)1438-759589
>>
>> Email:  <mailto:steve@...> steve@...
>>
>> Web:  <http://www.comproom.co.uk/> http://www.comproom.co.uk
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

 

On May 18, 2018, at 12:06 AM, Kostadin Kolev <k.kolev1985@...> wrote:

Hello all,

As I said in my previous message, I've disabled "Fast Boot" yesterday. That however, did not help for the strange behavior - this morning I turned on my PC and the behavior was the same. So, "Fast Boot" is not to blame here.

I'll leave it be as it is for now, until I can gather some useful technical information and eventually report this to Microsoft.

One more thing that I'll try is to disable NVDA at startup for me as a user and for the lock/sign-in screen and instead enable Narrator for that. If the problem with the appearing "Ease of access" menu persists even after that, I'll definitely report this to Microsoft.

______
Best wishes,
Kostadin Kolev

На 17.5.2018 г. в 17:33, Kostadin Kolev написа:

Hello all,

Chris, it is not so. Firstly, I don't hear Narrator speaking and in such a case I should, because it uses a different voice from NVDA. Secondly, I don't see the Narrator Cursor on the screen and with my settings I should, if Narrator is running. Thirdly, I checked in Control Panel -> Ease of access -> Change sign-in settings and Narrator there is not set to run neither on the lock screen, nor after I sign in.

Part of the described in my first message behavior (the one about displaying user information on the lock screen) might be considered as normal, specially if Microsoft have done some changes as to how things load after a "Fast Boot". But I don't think displaying the "Ease of access" menu without me invoking it manually could be considered a normal behavior. And some more food for thought: shouldn't the user's things and information be loaded after he signs in and not before that (?).

I could, and probably will, contact Microsoft about this, but firstly I wanted to ask if I'm the only one experiencing this. I don't think so, because I've experienced it in my virtual machine with Windows 10 Insider Preview, but I've attributed it to the slowness of the virtual machine. Apparently that is not the case.

I've temporarily disabled "Fast Boot" and will test how things go.

______
Best wishes,
Kostadin Kolev

На 17.5.2018 г. в 15:35, Chris via Groups.Io написа:

It sounds like you have both narrator and nvda to start on the login screen, check settings in both narrator and nvda

 

As for the other stuff you can change them in settings > personalization > lock screen

 

So nothing unusual at all really 😃

 

 

 

From: Kostadin Kolev
Sent: 17 May 2018 13:06
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Strange behavior of NVDA and Windows 10 at machine startup

 

Hello all,

I've noticed this strange behavior after the update of Windows 10 to version 1803. The behavior is the following. When the machine starts and Windows 10 loads, it gets to the lock screen as it should. Initially it all looks normal, but only for a while. Moments after that, the lock screen displays not only the time and date as it normally does, but user-specific information as well (e.g. weather forecast, upcoming alarms, etc.). Not only that, but the NVDA startup sound is heard, as if the desktop copy of NVDA is loaded, even though it should load only when the specific user signs in. I can't tell for sure if the desktop copy of NVDA loads, because my NVDA settings for the desktop and secure screen copies of it are the same. On top of that, the "Ease of access" menu appears and NVDA starts reading its menu items one by one. This happens when I power up the machine with "Fast Boot" enabled. I haven't tried with "Fast Boot" disabled, but when I restart the machine, the behavior described above does not occur. So, it must be related to "Fast Boot" somehow. And this did not occur before the update to version 1803 of Windows 10.

Has anyone else experienced the behavior described above? Have you found any solutions besides turning off "Fast Boot"? Turning off "Fast Boot" is also a solution, but I'd prefer to keep it on if possible.

______
Best wishes,
Kostadin Kolev

 

I'm using a Minix Neo Mini PC box running Windows 10 1803. This box sometimes reboots unexpectedly when using the Kodi media center to listen to DV movies, music and radio stations.

So yes, in normal cases you wouldn't have a need to reboot your PC too often. In my particular case it happens on a daily basis. Why I just want to get rid of it completely.

However else you might get rid of the problem, you should be able to reduce it to almost insignificance by using sleep or hibernate or whatever the Windows 10 equivalents are for these settings.  There hasn't been, since the introduction of Windows XP, any reason to shut down and reboot more than every few days or once a week or even longer, depending on how you use your computer.  You need to shut down sometimes because just using hibernate or sleep does the same thing as leaving the computer running without rebooting for an extended time does.  It results in instability.  But I only reboot when about a week goes by or if instability develops before that.  The way I use my computers it usually doesn't. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Kenny

Sent: Friday, May 18, 2018 7:59 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] Strange behavior of NVDA and Windows 10 at machine startup

Yes, that's exactly the panel. I just want to go directly to the field for entering my pin after startup. I find myself pressing [Escape], [Tab] etc. multiple times just to get rid of that screen and locate the entry field for inputting my pin.

Really is a pain in the butt!

On 5/18/2018 7:47 AM, Chris via Groups.Io wrote:

Do you mean the ease of access settings panel of the windows settings app is opening at login?

 

 

From: Kenny
Sent: 18 May 2018 10:30
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Strange behavior of NVDA and Windows 10 at machine startup

 

I've experienced it too. It's like Windows is presenting me with all of the built-in accessibility options for me to select from, before logging into Windows. Nice for those who don't know about them. Not so great for those of us who do.

 

The problem is that I've already chose NVDA as the accessibility option to be use at startup, and having to navigate out of this screen to reach the screen for inputting my pin is a pain.

I just want a way to disable this lock screen verbiage all together. Let me boot up into Windows, input my pin and get started. Stop presenting me with a bunch of stuff I don't care about. Give me a choice in the matter would you Microsoft?

On 5/17/2018 10:33 AM, Kostadin Kolev wrote:

Hello all,

Chris, it is not so. Firstly, I don't hear Narrator speaking and in such a case I should, because it uses a different voice from NVDA. Secondly, I don't see the Narrator Cursor on the screen and with my settings I should, if Narrator is running. Thirdly, I checked in Control Panel -> Ease of access -> Change sign-in settings and Narrator there is not set to run neither on the lock screen, nor after I sign in.

Part of the described in my first message behavior (the one about displaying user information on the lock screen) might be considered as normal, specially if Microsoft have done some changes as to how things load after a "Fast Boot". But I don't think displaying the "Ease of access" menu without me invoking it manually could be considered a normal behavior. And some more food for thought: shouldn't the user's things and information be loaded after he signs in and not before that (?).

I could, and probably will, contact Microsoft about this, but firstly I wanted to ask if I'm the only one experiencing this. I don't think so, because I've experienced it in my virtual machine with Windows 10 Insider Preview, but I've attributed it to the slowness of the virtual machine. Apparently that is not the case.

I've temporarily disabled "Fast Boot" and will test how things go.

______
Best wishes,
Kostadin Kolev

 

На 17.5.2018 г. в 15:35, Chris via Groups.Io написа:

It sounds like you have both narrator and nvda to start on the login screen, check settings in both narrator and nvda

 

As for the other stuff you can change them in settings > personalization > lock screen

 

So nothing unusual at all really 😃

 

 

 

From: Kostadin Kolev
Sent: 17 May 2018 13:06
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Strange behavior of NVDA and Windows 10 at machine startup

 

Hello all,

I've noticed this strange behavior after the update of Windows 10 to version 1803. The behavior is the following. When the machine starts and Windows 10 loads, it gets to the lock screen as it should. Initially it all looks normal, but only for a while. Moments after that, the lock screen displays not only the time and date as it normally does, but user-specific information as well (e.g. weather forecast, upcoming alarms, etc.). Not only that, but the NVDA startup sound is heard, as if the desktop copy of NVDA is loaded, even though it should load only when the specific user signs in. I can't tell for sure if the desktop copy of NVDA loads, because my NVDA settings for the desktop and secure screen copies of it are the same. On top of that, the "Ease of access" menu appears and NVDA starts reading its menu items one by one. This happens when I power up the machine with "Fast Boot" enabled. I haven't tried with "Fast Boot" disabled, but when I restart the machine, the behavior described above does not occur. So, it must be related to "Fast Boot" somehow. And this did not occur before the update to version 1803 of Windows 10.

Has anyone else experienced the behavior described above? Have you found any solutions besides turning off "Fast Boot"? Turning off "Fast Boot" is also a solution, but I'd prefer to keep it on if possible.

______
Best wishes,
Kostadin Kolev

 

 

 

 

However else you might get rid of the problem, you should be able to reduce it to almost insignificance by using sleep or hibernate or whatever the Windows 10 equivalents are for these settings.  There hasn't been, since the introduction of Windows XP, any reason to shut down and reboot more than every few days or once a week or even longer, depending on how you use your computer.  You need to shut down sometimes because just using hibernate or sleep does the same thing as leaving the computer running without rebooting for an extended time does.  It results in instability.  But I only reboot when about a week goes by or if instability develops before that.  The way I use my computers it usually doesn't. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Kenny

Sent: Friday, May 18, 2018 7:59 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] Strange behavior of NVDA and Windows 10 at machine startup

Yes, that's exactly the panel. I just want to go directly to the field for entering my pin after startup. I find myself pressing [Escape], [Tab] etc. multiple times just to get rid of that screen and locate the entry field for inputting my pin.

Really is a pain in the butt!

On 5/18/2018 7:47 AM, Chris via Groups.Io wrote:

Do you mean the ease of access settings panel of the windows settings app is opening at login?

 

 

From: Kenny
Sent: 18 May 2018 10:30
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Strange behavior of NVDA and Windows 10 at machine startup

 

I've experienced it too. It's like Windows is presenting me with all of the built-in accessibility options for me to select from, before logging into Windows. Nice for those who don't know about them. Not so great for those of us who do.

 

The problem is that I've already chose NVDA as the accessibility option to be use at startup, and having to navigate out of this screen to reach the screen for inputting my pin is a pain.

I just want a way to disable this lock screen verbiage all together. Let me boot up into Windows, input my pin and get started. Stop presenting me with a bunch of stuff I don't care about. Give me a choice in the matter would you Microsoft?

On 5/17/2018 10:33 AM, Kostadin Kolev wrote:

Hello all,

Chris, it is not so. Firstly, I don't hear Narrator speaking and in such a case I should, because it uses a different voice from NVDA. Secondly, I don't see the Narrator Cursor on the screen and with my settings I should, if Narrator is running. Thirdly, I checked in Control Panel -> Ease of access -> Change sign-in settings and Narrator there is not set to run neither on the lock screen, nor after I sign in.

Part of the described in my first message behavior (the one about displaying user information on the lock screen) might be considered as normal, specially if Microsoft have done some changes as to how things load after a "Fast Boot". But I don't think displaying the "Ease of access" menu without me invoking it manually could be considered a normal behavior. And some more food for thought: shouldn't the user's things and information be loaded after he signs in and not before that (?).

I could, and probably will, contact Microsoft about this, but firstly I wanted to ask if I'm the only one experiencing this. I don't think so, because I've experienced it in my virtual machine with Windows 10 Insider Preview, but I've attributed it to the slowness of the virtual machine. Apparently that is not the case.

I've temporarily disabled "Fast Boot" and will test how things go.

______
Best wishes,
Kostadin Kolev

 

На 17.5.2018 г. в 15:35, Chris via Groups.Io написа:

It sounds like you have both narrator and nvda to start on the login screen, check settings in both narrator and nvda

 

As for the other stuff you can change them in settings > personalization > lock screen

 

So nothing unusual at all really 😃

 

 

 

From: Kostadin Kolev
Sent: 17 May 2018 13:06
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Strange behavior of NVDA and Windows 10 at machine startup

 

Hello all,

I've noticed this strange behavior after the update of Windows 10 to version 1803. The behavior is the following. When the machine starts and Windows 10 loads, it gets to the lock screen as it should. Initially it all looks normal, but only for a while. Moments after that, the lock screen displays not only the time and date as it normally does, but user-specific information as well (e.g. weather forecast, upcoming alarms, etc.). Not only that, but the NVDA startup sound is heard, as if the desktop copy of NVDA is loaded, even though it should load only when the specific user signs in. I can't tell for sure if the desktop copy of NVDA loads, because my NVDA settings for the desktop and secure screen copies of it are the same. On top of that, the "Ease of access" menu appears and NVDA starts reading its menu items one by one. This happens when I power up the machine with "Fast Boot" enabled. I haven't tried with "Fast Boot" disabled, but when I restart the machine, the behavior described above does not occur. So, it must be related to "Fast Boot" somehow. And this did not occur before the update to version 1803 of Windows 10.

Has anyone else experienced the behavior described above? Have you found any solutions besides turning off "Fast Boot"? Turning off "Fast Boot" is also a solution, but I'd prefer to keep it on if possible.

______
Best wishes,
Kostadin Kolev

 

 

 

 

This discussion kind of evolved in to talking about browsing with Amazon, but I have some more general ideas. First, do make sure you have IE, Chrome and FireFox and Edge, available and updated, and depending on which pages you visit most often, make the default browser the one that works best with those pages. Be flexible about trying that page with a different browser. Also be sure you keep NVDA updated as well.
Second, remember that sighted people struggle too. My sighted husband was just complaining about Facebook last night; he has to use it for a group he manages. He said he was trying to scroll down to post something on the calendar, and little videos would pop up and play each time he scrolled. It was driving him crazy. He also has issues with the Yahoo groups interface that though not identical to mine are equally tedious and time-wasting.
Third, you can always vote with your fingertips. If I find something difficult to buy on Amazon I use iBOOKS instead of Kindle, Walmart for tangible goods, or even an accessible site like BlindMiceMart. Amazon at least has the dedicated customer service number for disabilities.
Fourth, Make sure you have the JAWS demo, if you need to check something that NVDA is apparently not able to read. I find that NVDA usually reads more than JAWS but every once in a while, something has been scripted for JAWS that makes it possible for JAWS to read it. Also you can use the JAWS touch cursor through the keyboard and that can help locate things.

Fifth: If you have an app like Seeing AI or KNFB Reader, you can get pretty good screen OCR. If you have One-drive you can press Print-Screen and have screen shots saved to your one-drive so you can either try to OCR them or have sighted help look at them for you later.
Sixth: NVDA's object nav works a lot like Cobra, so be sure you practice using it, mostly with applications you are familiar with in the first place.  I find Brailling each keystroke on a separate notecard, so I can flip through a stack of cards, rather than alt-tabbing to a list of keyboard shortcuts to be easier, especially if I'm using object nav and don't want to disturb the screen.

Yes, that's exactly the panel. I just want to go directly to the field for entering my pin after startup. I find myself pressing [Escape], [Tab] etc. multiple times just to get rid of that screen and locate the entry field for inputting my pin.

Really is a pain in the butt!

On 5/18/2018 7:47 AM, Chris via Groups.Io wrote:

Do you mean the ease of access settings panel of the windows settings app is opening at login?

 

 

From: Kenny
Sent: 18 May 2018 10:30
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Strange behavior of NVDA and Windows 10 at machine startup

 

I've experienced it too. It's like Windows is presenting me with all of the built-in accessibility options for me to select from, before logging into Windows. Nice for those who don't know about them. Not so great for those of us who do.

 

The problem is that I've already chose NVDA as the accessibility option to be use at startup, and having to navigate out of this screen to reach the screen for inputting my pin is a pain.

I just want a way to disable this lock screen verbiage all together. Let me boot up into Windows, input my pin and get started. Stop presenting me with a bunch of stuff I don't care about. Give me a choice in the matter would you Microsoft?

On 5/17/2018 10:33 AM, Kostadin Kolev wrote:

Hello all,

Chris, it is not so. Firstly, I don't hear Narrator speaking and in such a case I should, because it uses a different voice from NVDA. Secondly, I don't see the Narrator Cursor on the screen and with my settings I should, if Narrator is running. Thirdly, I checked in Control Panel -> Ease of access -> Change sign-in settings and Narrator there is not set to run neither on the lock screen, nor after I sign in.

Part of the described in my first message behavior (the one about displaying user information on the lock screen) might be considered as normal, specially if Microsoft have done some changes as to how things load after a "Fast Boot". But I don't think displaying the "Ease of access" menu without me invoking it manually could be considered a normal behavior. And some more food for thought: shouldn't the user's things and information be loaded after he signs in and not before that (?).

I could, and probably will, contact Microsoft about this, but firstly I wanted to ask if I'm the only one experiencing this. I don't think so, because I've experienced it in my virtual machine with Windows 10 Insider Preview, but I've attributed it to the slowness of the virtual machine. Apparently that is not the case.

I've temporarily disabled "Fast Boot" and will test how things go.

______
Best wishes,
Kostadin Kolev

 

На 17.5.2018 г. в 15:35, Chris via Groups.Io написа:

It sounds like you have both narrator and nvda to start on the login screen, check settings in both narrator and nvda

 

As for the other stuff you can change them in settings > personalization > lock screen

 

So nothing unusual at all really 😃

 

 

 

From: Kostadin Kolev
Sent: 17 May 2018 13:06
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Strange behavior of NVDA and Windows 10 at machine startup

 

Hello all,

I've noticed this strange behavior after the update of Windows 10 to version 1803. The behavior is the following. When the machine starts and Windows 10 loads, it gets to the lock screen as it should. Initially it all looks normal, but only for a while. Moments after that, the lock screen displays not only the time and date as it normally does, but user-specific information as well (e.g. weather forecast, upcoming alarms, etc.). Not only that, but the NVDA startup sound is heard, as if the desktop copy of NVDA is loaded, even though it should load only when the specific user signs in. I can't tell for sure if the desktop copy of NVDA loads, because my NVDA settings for the desktop and secure screen copies of it are the same. On top of that, the "Ease of access" menu appears and NVDA starts reading its menu items one by one. This happens when I power up the machine with "Fast Boot" enabled. I haven't tried with "Fast Boot" disabled, but when I restart the machine, the behavior described above does not occur. So, it must be related to "Fast Boot" somehow. And this did not occur before the update to version 1803 of Windows 10.

Has anyone else experienced the behavior described above? Have you found any solutions besides turning off "Fast Boot"? Turning off "Fast Boot" is also a solution, but I'd prefer to keep it on if possible.

______
Best wishes,
Kostadin Kolev

 

 

 

 

Yes, that's exactly the panel. I just want to go directly to the field for entering my pin after startup. I find myself pressing [Escape], [Tab] etc. multiple times just to get rid of that screen and locate the entry field for inputting my pin.

Really is a pain in the butt!

Do you mean the ease of access settings panel of the windows settings app is opening at login?

 

 

From: Kenny
Sent: 18 May 2018 10:30
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Strange behavior of NVDA and Windows 10 at machine startup

 

I've experienced it too. It's like Windows is presenting me with all of the built-in accessibility options for me to select from, before logging into Windows. Nice for those who don't know about them. Not so great for those of us who do.

 

The problem is that I've already chose NVDA as the accessibility option to be use at startup, and having to navigate out of this screen to reach the screen for inputting my pin is a pain.

I just want a way to disable this lock screen verbiage all together. Let me boot up into Windows, input my pin and get started. Stop presenting me with a bunch of stuff I don't care about. Give me a choice in the matter would you Microsoft?

On 5/17/2018 10:33 AM, Kostadin Kolev wrote:

Hello all,

Chris, it is not so. Firstly, I don't hear Narrator speaking and in such a case I should, because it uses a different voice from NVDA. Secondly, I don't see the Narrator Cursor on the screen and with my settings I should, if Narrator is running. Thirdly, I checked in Control Panel -> Ease of access -> Change sign-in settings and Narrator there is not set to run neither on the lock screen, nor after I sign in.

Part of the described in my first message behavior (the one about displaying user information on the lock screen) might be considered as normal, specially if Microsoft have done some changes as to how things load after a "Fast Boot". But I don't think displaying the "Ease of access" menu without me invoking it manually could be considered a normal behavior. And some more food for thought: shouldn't the user's things and information be loaded after he signs in and not before that (?).

I could, and probably will, contact Microsoft about this, but firstly I wanted to ask if I'm the only one experiencing this. I don't think so, because I've experienced it in my virtual machine with Windows 10 Insider Preview, but I've attributed it to the slowness of the virtual machine. Apparently that is not the case.

I've temporarily disabled "Fast Boot" and will test how things go.

______
Best wishes,
Kostadin Kolev

 

На 17.5.2018 г. в 15:35, Chris via Groups.Io написа:

It sounds like you have both narrator and nvda to start on the login screen, check settings in both narrator and nvda

 

As for the other stuff you can change them in settings > personalization > lock screen

 

So nothing unusual at all really 😃

 

 

 

From: Kostadin Kolev
Sent: 17 May 2018 13:06
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Strange behavior of NVDA and Windows 10 at machine startup

 

Hello all,

I've noticed this strange behavior after the update of Windows 10 to version 1803. The behavior is the following. When the machine starts and Windows 10 loads, it gets to the lock screen as it should. Initially it all looks normal, but only for a while. Moments after that, the lock screen displays not only the time and date as it normally does, but user-specific information as well (e.g. weather forecast, upcoming alarms, etc.). Not only that, but the NVDA startup sound is heard, as if the desktop copy of NVDA is loaded, even though it should load only when the specific user signs in. I can't tell for sure if the desktop copy of NVDA loads, because my NVDA settings for the desktop and secure screen copies of it are the same. On top of that, the "Ease of access" menu appears and NVDA starts reading its menu items one by one. This happens when I power up the machine with "Fast Boot" enabled. I haven't tried with "Fast Boot" disabled, but when I restart the machine, the behavior described above does not occur. So, it must be related to "Fast Boot" somehow. And this did not occur before the update to version 1803 of Windows 10.

Has anyone else experienced the behavior described above? Have you found any solutions besides turning off "Fast Boot"? Turning off "Fast Boot" is also a solution, but I'd prefer to keep it on if possible.

______
Best wishes,
Kostadin Kolev

 

 

 

 

Do you mean the ease of access settings panel of the windows settings app is opening at login?

 

 

From: Kenny
Sent: 18 May 2018 10:30
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Strange behavior of NVDA and Windows 10 at machine startup

 

I've experienced it too. It's like Windows is presenting me with all of the built-in accessibility options for me to select from, before logging into Windows. Nice for those who don't know about them. Not so great for those of us who do.

 

The problem is that I've already chose NVDA as the accessibility option to be use at startup, and having to navigate out of this screen to reach the screen for inputting my pin is a pain.

I just want a way to disable this lock screen verbiage all together. Let me boot up into Windows, input my pin and get started. Stop presenting me with a bunch of stuff I don't care about. Give me a choice in the matter would you Microsoft?

On 5/17/2018 10:33 AM, Kostadin Kolev wrote:

Hello all,

Chris, it is not so. Firstly, I don't hear Narrator speaking and in such a case I should, because it uses a different voice from NVDA. Secondly, I don't see the Narrator Cursor on the screen and with my settings I should, if Narrator is running. Thirdly, I checked in Control Panel -> Ease of access -> Change sign-in settings and Narrator there is not set to run neither on the lock screen, nor after I sign in.

Part of the described in my first message behavior (the one about displaying user information on the lock screen) might be considered as normal, specially if Microsoft have done some changes as to how things load after a "Fast Boot". But I don't think displaying the "Ease of access" menu without me invoking it manually could be considered a normal behavior. And some more food for thought: shouldn't the user's things and information be loaded after he signs in and not before that (?).

I could, and probably will, contact Microsoft about this, but firstly I wanted to ask if I'm the only one experiencing this. I don't think so, because I've experienced it in my virtual machine with Windows 10 Insider Preview, but I've attributed it to the slowness of the virtual machine. Apparently that is not the case.

I've temporarily disabled "Fast Boot" and will test how things go.

______
Best wishes,
Kostadin Kolev

 

На 17.5.2018 г. в 15:35, Chris via Groups.Io написа:

It sounds like you have both narrator and nvda to start on the login screen, check settings in both narrator and nvda

 

As for the other stuff you can change them in settings > personalization > lock screen

 

So nothing unusual at all really 😃

 

 

 

From: Kostadin Kolev
Sent: 17 May 2018 13:06
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Strange behavior of NVDA and Windows 10 at machine startup

 

Hello all,

I've noticed this strange behavior after the update of Windows 10 to version 1803. The behavior is the following. When the machine starts and Windows 10 loads, it gets to the lock screen as it should. Initially it all looks normal, but only for a while. Moments after that, the lock screen displays not only the time and date as it normally does, but user-specific information as well (e.g. weather forecast, upcoming alarms, etc.). Not only that, but the NVDA startup sound is heard, as if the desktop copy of NVDA is loaded, even though it should load only when the specific user signs in. I can't tell for sure if the desktop copy of NVDA loads, because my NVDA settings for the desktop and secure screen copies of it are the same. On top of that, the "Ease of access" menu appears and NVDA starts reading its menu items one by one. This happens when I power up the machine with "Fast Boot" enabled. I haven't tried with "Fast Boot" disabled, but when I restart the machine, the behavior described above does not occur. So, it must be related to "Fast Boot" somehow. And this did not occur before the update to version 1803 of Windows 10.

Has anyone else experienced the behavior described above? Have you found any solutions besides turning off "Fast Boot"? Turning off "Fast Boot" is also a solution, but I'd prefer to keep it on if possible.

______
Best wishes,
Kostadin Kolev

 

 

 

 

I've experienced it too. It's like Windows is presenting me with all of the built-in accessibility options for me to select from, before logging into Windows. Nice for those who don't know about them. Not so great for those of us who do.

The problem is that I've already chose NVDA as the accessibility option to be use at startup, and having to navigate out of this screen to reach the screen for inputting my pin is a pain.

I just want a way to disable this lock screen verbiage all together. Let me boot up into Windows, input my pin and get started. Stop presenting me with a bunch of stuff I don't care about. Give me a choice in the matter would you Microsoft?

Hello all,

Chris, it is not so. Firstly, I don't hear Narrator speaking and in such a case I should, because it uses a different voice from NVDA. Secondly, I don't see the Narrator Cursor on the screen and with my settings I should, if Narrator is running. Thirdly, I checked in Control Panel -> Ease of access -> Change sign-in settings and Narrator there is not set to run neither on the lock screen, nor after I sign in.

Part of the described in my first message behavior (the one about displaying user information on the lock screen) might be considered as normal, specially if Microsoft have done some changes as to how things load after a "Fast Boot". But I don't think displaying the "Ease of access" menu without me invoking it manually could be considered a normal behavior. And some more food for thought: shouldn't the user's things and information be loaded after he signs in and not before that (?).

I could, and probably will, contact Microsoft about this, but firstly I wanted to ask if I'm the only one experiencing this. I don't think so, because I've experienced it in my virtual machine with Windows 10 Insider Preview, but I've attributed it to the slowness of the virtual machine. Apparently that is not the case.

I've temporarily disabled "Fast Boot" and will test how things go.

______
Best wishes,
Kostadin Kolev

 

На 17.5.2018 г. в 15:35, Chris via Groups.Io написа:

It sounds like you have both narrator and nvda to start on the login screen, check settings in both narrator and nvda

 

As for the other stuff you can change them in settings > personalization > lock screen

 

So nothing unusual at all really 😃

 

 

 

From: Kostadin Kolev
Sent: 17 May 2018 13:06
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Strange behavior of NVDA and Windows 10 at machine startup

 

Hello all,

I've noticed this strange behavior after the update of Windows 10 to version 1803. The behavior is the following. When the machine starts and Windows 10 loads, it gets to the lock screen as it should. Initially it all looks normal, but only for a while. Moments after that, the lock screen displays not only the time and date as it normally does, but user-specific information as well (e.g. weather forecast, upcoming alarms, etc.). Not only that, but the NVDA startup sound is heard, as if the desktop copy of NVDA is loaded, even though it should load only when the specific user signs in. I can't tell for sure if the desktop copy of NVDA loads, because my NVDA settings for the desktop and secure screen copies of it are the same. On top of that, the "Ease of access" menu appears and NVDA starts reading its menu items one by one. This happens when I power up the machine with "Fast Boot" enabled. I haven't tried with "Fast Boot" disabled, but when I restart the machine, the behavior described above does not occur. So, it must be related to "Fast Boot" somehow. And this did not occur before the update to version 1803 of Windows 10.

Has anyone else experienced the behavior described above? Have you found any solutions besides turning off "Fast Boot"? Turning off "Fast Boot" is also a solution, but I'd prefer to keep it on if possible.

______
Best wishes,
Kostadin Kolev

 

 

To clarify,
There isn't a built-in way to repeat the last utterance.  There are several ways that might achieve what you want here, however:
1) If the error is a standard windowsdialogbox, you may be able to copy it by simply pressing CONTROL+C.
2) If the error is in adialogbox, you can read the entiredialogby pressing NVDA+b.
3) To give you the speak last utterance functionality, there is a Speech History add-on: https://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/speech_history.en.html
4) If you open NVDA's speech viewer BEFORE the error message is read, you can navigate to the speech viewer window and read or copy the text. Press NVDA+N, then T, then S to turn on the speech viewer.
5) You could use the NVDA log with logging set to input / output or debug, although you would likely have to wade through more other information if all you want is the spoken text.
6) You could use NVDA's review cursor / Object navigation functionality to move back through the text in the dialog, even if it is not accessible with the keyboard normally.  The exact keys to press depend on the way the error message is set out, but since you mentioned you are using laptop keyboard layout, you could try
- NVDA+UP ARROW to move to the previous line in the current object and NVDA+DOWN ARROW to move to the next line in the current object.
- NVDA+SHIFT+LEFT arrow to move to the previous object (NVDA+SHIFT+RIGHT ARROW TO MOVE TO THE NEXT OBJECT), and NVDA+SHIFT+o to report the current object.
Try moving around the current object first and if that doesn't give you the text (for instance, if the focus is on an "OK" button), then try moving back to the previous object.
That should give you enough options to go on with for now anyway!
Kind regards
Quentin.
On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 7:35 AM, David Griffith <daj.griffith@gmail.com <mailto:daj.griffith@gmail.com>> wrote:
Surely the easy way to do this in NVDA is simply to turn on Speech
Viewer in NVDA settings.____
This opens a window where all speech output from NVDA is copied  as
text in a  window where you can simply alt tab to this text window
and copy the text out as desired.____
__ __
David griffith____
__ __
__ __
My Blind Access and Guide dog Blog
http://dgriffithblog.wordpress.com/
<http://dgriffithblog.wordpress.com/>
My Blind hammer Blog
https://www.westhamtillidie.com/authors/blind-hammer/posts
<https://www.westhamtillidie.com/authors/blind-hammer/posts>
__ __
*From: *Gene <mailto:gsasner@ripco.com>
*Sent: *17 May 2018 21:31
*To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject: *Re: [nvda] Coying the last thing NVDA said to the system
clipboard?
__ __
Also, Jessica is using the Windows 10 mail app.  I don't know how to
work with that app because I don't have Windows 10 and I haven't
looked at it.____
____
Gene____
----- Original Message -----____
*From:*Gene <mailto:gsasner@ripco.com> ____
*Sent:*Thursday, May 17, 2018 3:29 PM____
*To:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> ____
*Subject:*Re: [nvda] Coying the last thing NVDA said to the system
clipboard?____
__ __
To those following this thread:____
As far as I can tell, I am sending mail as Unicode (UTF-8).  I know
I am sending mail as HTML.  These are both standard ways of sending
mail for a lot of people.  I don't know why Jessica can't read my
mail.  Will others, whith whom Jessica can, we hope, communicate,
try to help with this problem?  If she doesn't see my messages,
then, I would think, she won't see a lot of list mail.____
____
Gene____
----- Original Message -----____
*From:*Jessica D <mailto:jldail13@gmail.com> ____
*Sent:*Thursday, May 17, 2018 3:03 PM____
*To:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> ____
*Subject:*Re: [nvda] Coying the last thing NVDA said to the system
clipboard?____
__ __
Hi,____
Your reply was blank.____
__ __
Can you please send again?____
__ __
Thanks,____
Jessica____
__ __
__ __
Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
Windows 10____
__ __
*From: *Jessica D <mailto:jldail13@gmail.com>
*Sent: *Thursday, May 17, 2018 3:18 PM
*To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject: *[nvda] Coying the last thing NVDA said to the system
clipboard?____
__ __
Hi,____
I’m still having trouble installing the 1803 update, and am getting
an error message.____
__ __
I’d like to google it, to figure out what it means.____
__ __
As a result, I need to copy it  to the system clipboard.____
__ __
Does anyone know the key command to accomplish this?____
__ __
Thanks,____
Jessica____
__ __
__ __
__
__ __
--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager
Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org/>
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess

    Following up on this response. Is there any option to disable the lock screen verbiage all together? Can't find any such switch under settings -> personalization -> lock screen.

Meaning when Windows boots up; I want to be taken directly to the screen for inputting my pin or password.

Until I get familiar with this Android style Windows 10 1803 lock screen, I rather disable it totally for now.

On 5/17/2018 8:35 AM, Chris via Groups.Io wrote:

It sounds like you have both narrator and nvda to start on the login screen, check settings in both narrator and nvda

 

As for the other stuff you can change them in settings > personalization > lock screen

 

So nothing unusual at all really 😃

 

 

 

From: Kostadin Kolev
Sent: 17 May 2018 13:06
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Strange behavior of NVDA and Windows 10 at machine startup

 

Hello all,

I've noticed this strange behavior after the update of Windows 10 to version 1803. The behavior is the following. When the machine starts and Windows 10 loads, it gets to the lock screen as it should. Initially it all looks normal, but only for a while. Moments after that, the lock screen displays not only the time and date as it normally does, but user-specific information as well (e.g. weather forecast, upcoming alarms, etc.). Not only that, but the NVDA startup sound is heard, as if the desktop copy of NVDA is loaded, even though it should load only when the specific user signs in. I can't tell for sure if the desktop copy of NVDA loads, because my NVDA settings for the desktop and secure screen copies of it are the same. On top of that, the "Ease of access" menu appears and NVDA starts reading its menu items one by one. This happens when I power up the machine with "Fast Boot" enabled. I haven't tried with "Fast Boot" disabled, but when I restart the machine, the behavior described above does not occur. So, it must be related to "Fast Boot" somehow. And this did not occur before the update to version 1803 of Windows 10.

Has anyone else experienced the behavior described above? Have you found any solutions besides turning off "Fast Boot"? Turning off "Fast Boot" is also a solution, but I'd prefer to keep it on if possible.

______
Best wishes,
Kostadin Kolev