Date   

Re: Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

Gene
 

Yes, I didn't realize that.  Sorry for the error.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2018 2:38 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

Gene,
 
If you read my message again, you will note that I wanted to postpone updates and sets etc, not dismiss them out of hand, so you are putting words in my mouth.
However, thank you for the link to turn off sets.
 
Best Regards, Jim.
 
From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 3:34 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
 
I believe I read that sets is off by default but I'm not sure.  If not, you can turn them off.  Here is an article that describes how. 
Perhaps, instead of just rejecting the feature out of hand, a little time might be spent learning about them and trying them to see if they would be useful. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Gene
----- Original Message -----
 
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 4:59 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
 
Hello,
 
Having followed this thread with interest, I am still not sure whether the “sets” issue is on by default or not, if it’s not, then I don’t see the problem, just don’t turn it on until problems with screen readers are resolved. I haven’t got the latest update yet, I have my working hours set to6 am to 12 midnight and the computer is off outside those hours, I got a message recently  something like, “we couldn’t find a time to download updates”, could this be a way of stopping these updates to windows ten? or am I dreaming?, if it works, it could b a way of postponing them until all problems with screen readers are resolved.
 
I should say that I have Eset smart security on my system and this largely disables Windows defender anyway.
 
To Steve, I bet you are sad that Window eyes is now defunkt? I also noted from one of FS webinar that Jaws is likely to do away with the 40 minute mode in favour of a 30 day trial, Lots of people can’t afford the price of Jaws, I am lucky enough to have had it for years, Long live NVDA for those who are not in my position. I do understand that Steve runs a well known business and needs to have everything working to do his job, but Jaws hasn’t always been so brilliant, and still isn’t with some third party programs.
 
 
Best Regards, Jim.
 
From: Steve Nutt
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 8:19 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
 

Well if I was on NVDA only today, I couldn’t do my job.  This is why it’s always good to have more than one screen reader.

 

Besides, you’re probably not on Windows 10 1803 Spring Creators, which is where these issues started for me.

 

But saying I should be using NVDA and not JAWS doesn’t really add value to this thread, I merely reported that NVDA is broken for me on several machines.

 

All the best


Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Walker, Michael E
Sent: 16 May 2018 17:51
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

NVDA is broken? How so? I am on NVDA 2018.1.1. I always tell people thinking about using JAWS that they should be long on NVDA and short on JAWS, since NVDA is free and open source, and provides the same quality. It is kind of like John Wayne’s advice to be long on ears and short on jaws, but with my screen reader twist.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 11:48 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

Hi,

 

I have to say, over all, Windows 10 is snappier than Windows 7 ever was.

 

It’s just these glitches that get us.

 

What’s odd with this particular issue is that NVDA and Narrator are quite broken, but JAWS is a happy screen reader.  So they are obviously doing some serious hacking to get UIA to work as well as it does with JAWS.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 16 May 2018 17:00
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

That is only true if a lot of users, sighted users, get annoyed enough to matter.  A lot of the changes that inconvenience blind users until they learn how to use them may be intuitive and quickly understood by sighted users.  and, in the case of screen-reader problems, sighted people wouldn't have any of those problems.  Also, as in the new feature of sets, they may not be on by default.  As I recall what I read, sets is off by default.

 

But every time a new major update to Windows comes out, I see enough blind users have problems that I'm in no hurry to get Windows 10.  Even if the problems are temporary, such as screen-reader problems that are dealt with not too long after the upgrade, Windows 10 has nothing I want that justifies even relatively minor inconveniences time after time.

 

I'll get it when I get a new computer.  I won't upgrade a machine that is working very well with an earlier version of Windows.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 10:47 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

I think the one thing I'm really annoyed about is that Microsoft keep on
fiddling with things that used to work and making them not work. I have
actually given  up on 10 as a working platform, unless Microsoft can simply
provide a system stable and just with security updates like windows 7. They
are not doing themselves any good by bringing out new versions of windows
every6 months or so in my view, they are going to make Windows 7 into the
keep hold of system just like XP if they are not more careful. Fine have new
features but do not change the whole concept and still call it windows 10.
that is just silly. That is my feeling after being exposed to their messing
about. its as if the developers who used to regularly screw up Skype have
been let loose on the innards of Windows!
Hides behind sofa.  Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 3:44 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803


> Oh and isn't it time NVDA installed Win 10 essentials automagically if Win
> 10 is detected?  New users shouldn't certainly have to go hunting for
> addons
> for their screen reader.
>
> All the best
>
> Steve
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
> Sent: 16 May 2018 15:43
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>
> Hi,
>
> I just downloaded Win 10 essentials stable today, but it doesn't seem to
> make much difference.
>
> I must play a bit more.
>
> All the best
>
> Steve
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail
> list account via Groups.Io
> Sent: 16 May 2018 13:17
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>
> I expect Joseph will be along soon to ask about the  version of win 10
> essentials you have, but have you tried the pre release master snap?
> If that fails too then somebody in the development team needs to try to
> isolate what makes some machines work and others not.
> Brian
>
> bglists@...
> Sent via blueyonder.
> Please address personal E-mail to:-
> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
> in the display name field.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Nutt" <mailto:steve@...>
> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 12:31 PM
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>
>
>> Hi Jacob,
>>
>>
>>
>> I have three machines here, all on 1803.  None of them work at all
>> well with NVDA in Windows 10, in fact, File Explorer is pretty much
>> unusable, as is Outlook.
>>
>>
>>
>> At this point, I'm glad I have JAWS as well.  But I don't know why
>> NVDA is so broken with 1803, more so than JAWS.
>>
>>
>>
>> All the best
>>
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jacob
>> Kruger
>> Sent: 16 May 2018 09:10
>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>>
>>
>>
>> Steve, this sounds almost like an iteration of what I was mentioning -
>> it seems to fluctuate/vary quite a bit on/off on my one windows 10
>> 1803 machine, which is a lenovo laptop, whereas on my slightly lower
>> hardware specification desktop machine, that does however have a solid
>> state operating system drive in it, it actually seems to react a bit
>> more consistently, in terms of reading out list items, like in file
>> explorer, to me, and, this is with both of them running windows 10
>> 1803 pro 64 bit, and, currently both running NVDA master snapshot.
>>
>>
>>
>> Stay well
>>
>>
>>
>> Jacob Kruger
>> Blind Biker
>> Skype: BlindZA
>> "Resistance is futile..but, acceptance is versatile..."
>>
>> On 5/16/2018 10:03 AM, Steve Nutt wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>>
>>
>> I recently reported that Outlook message lists were not reading for me.
>>
>>
>>
>> It is in fact worse than that, lists in general don't seem to be reading.
>> For example, File Explorer in Windows 10 is completely silent for me now.
>>
>>
>>
>> JAWS is reading lists quite happily.
>>
>>
>>
>> Any thoughts?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>>
>>
>> All the best
>>
>>
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Computer Room Services
>>
>> 77 Exeter Close
>>
>> Stevenage
>>
>> Hertfordshire
>>
>> SG1 4PW
>>
>> Tel: +44(0)1438-742286
>>
>> Mob: +44(0)7956-334938
>>
>> Fax: +44(0)1438-759589
>>
>> Email:  <mailto:steve@...> steve@...
>>
>> Web:  <http://www.comproom.co.uk/> http://www.comproom.co.uk
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


Re: Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

The Gamages
 

Gene,
 
If you read my message again, you will note that I wanted to postpone updates and sets etc, not dismiss them out of hand, so you are putting words in my mouth.
However, thank you for the link to turn off sets.
 
Best Regards, Jim.
 

From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 3:34 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
 
I believe I read that sets is off by default but I'm not sure.  If not, you can turn them off.  Here is an article that describes how. 
Perhaps, instead of just rejecting the feature out of hand, a little time might be spent learning about them and trying them to see if they would be useful. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Gene
----- Original Message -----
 
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 4:59 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
 
Hello,
 
Having followed this thread with interest, I am still not sure whether the “sets” issue is on by default or not, if it’s not, then I don’t see the problem, just don’t turn it on until problems with screen readers are resolved. I haven’t got the latest update yet, I have my working hours set to6 am to 12 midnight and the computer is off outside those hours, I got a message recently  something like, “we couldn’t find a time to download updates”, could this be a way of stopping these updates to windows ten? or am I dreaming?, if it works, it could b a way of postponing them until all problems with screen readers are resolved.
 
I should say that I have Eset smart security on my system and this largely disables Windows defender anyway.
 
To Steve, I bet you are sad that Window eyes is now defunkt? I also noted from one of FS webinar that Jaws is likely to do away with the 40 minute mode in favour of a 30 day trial, Lots of people can’t afford the price of Jaws, I am lucky enough to have had it for years, Long live NVDA for those who are not in my position. I do understand that Steve runs a well known business and needs to have everything working to do his job, but Jaws hasn’t always been so brilliant, and still isn’t with some third party programs.
 
 
Best Regards, Jim.
 
From: Steve Nutt
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 8:19 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
 

Well if I was on NVDA only today, I couldn’t do my job.  This is why it’s always good to have more than one screen reader.

 

Besides, you’re probably not on Windows 10 1803 Spring Creators, which is where these issues started for me.

 

But saying I should be using NVDA and not JAWS doesn’t really add value to this thread, I merely reported that NVDA is broken for me on several machines.

 

All the best


Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Walker, Michael E
Sent: 16 May 2018 17:51
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

NVDA is broken? How so? I am on NVDA 2018.1.1. I always tell people thinking about using JAWS that they should be long on NVDA and short on JAWS, since NVDA is free and open source, and provides the same quality. It is kind of like John Wayne’s advice to be long on ears and short on jaws, but with my screen reader twist.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 11:48 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

Hi,

 

I have to say, over all, Windows 10 is snappier than Windows 7 ever was.

 

It’s just these glitches that get us.

 

What’s odd with this particular issue is that NVDA and Narrator are quite broken, but JAWS is a happy screen reader.  So they are obviously doing some serious hacking to get UIA to work as well as it does with JAWS.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 16 May 2018 17:00
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

That is only true if a lot of users, sighted users, get annoyed enough to matter.  A lot of the changes that inconvenience blind users until they learn how to use them may be intuitive and quickly understood by sighted users.  and, in the case of screen-reader problems, sighted people wouldn't have any of those problems.  Also, as in the new feature of sets, they may not be on by default.  As I recall what I read, sets is off by default.

 

But every time a new major update to Windows comes out, I see enough blind users have problems that I'm in no hurry to get Windows 10.  Even if the problems are temporary, such as screen-reader problems that are dealt with not too long after the upgrade, Windows 10 has nothing I want that justifies even relatively minor inconveniences time after time.

 

I'll get it when I get a new computer.  I won't upgrade a machine that is working very well with an earlier version of Windows.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 10:47 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

I think the one thing I'm really annoyed about is that Microsoft keep on
fiddling with things that used to work and making them not work. I have
actually given  up on 10 as a working platform, unless Microsoft can simply
provide a system stable and just with security updates like windows 7. They
are not doing themselves any good by bringing out new versions of windows
every6 months or so in my view, they are going to make Windows 7 into the
keep hold of system just like XP if they are not more careful. Fine have new
features but do not change the whole concept and still call it windows 10.
that is just silly. That is my feeling after being exposed to their messing
about. its as if the developers who used to regularly screw up Skype have
been let loose on the innards of Windows!
Hides behind sofa.  Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 3:44 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803


> Oh and isn't it time NVDA installed Win 10 essentials automagically if Win
> 10 is detected?  New users shouldn't certainly have to go hunting for
> addons
> for their screen reader.
>
> All the best
>
> Steve
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
> Sent: 16 May 2018 15:43
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>
> Hi,
>
> I just downloaded Win 10 essentials stable today, but it doesn't seem to
> make much difference.
>
> I must play a bit more.
>
> All the best
>
> Steve
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail
> list account via Groups.Io
> Sent: 16 May 2018 13:17
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>
> I expect Joseph will be along soon to ask about the  version of win 10
> essentials you have, but have you tried the pre release master snap?
> If that fails too then somebody in the development team needs to try to
> isolate what makes some machines work and others not.
> Brian
>
> bglists@...
> Sent via blueyonder.
> Please address personal E-mail to:-
> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
> in the display name field.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Nutt" <mailto:steve@...>
> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 12:31 PM
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>
>
>> Hi Jacob,
>>
>>
>>
>> I have three machines here, all on 1803.  None of them work at all
>> well with NVDA in Windows 10, in fact, File Explorer is pretty much
>> unusable, as is Outlook.
>>
>>
>>
>> At this point, I'm glad I have JAWS as well.  But I don't know why
>> NVDA is so broken with 1803, more so than JAWS.
>>
>>
>>
>> All the best
>>
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jacob
>> Kruger
>> Sent: 16 May 2018 09:10
>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>>
>>
>>
>> Steve, this sounds almost like an iteration of what I was mentioning -
>> it seems to fluctuate/vary quite a bit on/off on my one windows 10
>> 1803 machine, which is a lenovo laptop, whereas on my slightly lower
>> hardware specification desktop machine, that does however have a solid
>> state operating system drive in it, it actually seems to react a bit
>> more consistently, in terms of reading out list items, like in file
>> explorer, to me, and, this is with both of them running windows 10
>> 1803 pro 64 bit, and, currently both running NVDA master snapshot.
>>
>>
>>
>> Stay well
>>
>>
>>
>> Jacob Kruger
>> Blind Biker
>> Skype: BlindZA
>> "Resistance is futile..but, acceptance is versatile..."
>>
>> On 5/16/2018 10:03 AM, Steve Nutt wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>>
>>
>> I recently reported that Outlook message lists were not reading for me.
>>
>>
>>
>> It is in fact worse than that, lists in general don't seem to be reading.
>> For example, File Explorer in Windows 10 is completely silent for me now.
>>
>>
>>
>> JAWS is reading lists quite happily.
>>
>>
>>
>> Any thoughts?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>>
>>
>> All the best
>>
>>
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Computer Room Services
>>
>> 77 Exeter Close
>>
>> Stevenage
>>
>> Hertfordshire
>>
>> SG1 4PW
>>
>> Tel: +44(0)1438-742286
>>
>> Mob: +44(0)7956-334938
>>
>> Fax: +44(0)1438-759589
>>
>> Email:  <mailto:steve@...> steve@...
>>
>> Web:  <http://www.comproom.co.uk/> http://www.comproom.co.uk
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


Re: Call me stupid but..

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

This page does not exist.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Vlad Dragomir" <vladdragomir1983@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2018 3:18 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Call me stupid but..


Hello,

Alternatively, you can go to drive.google.com, press space on Settings, and enter on Download Backup and Sync.

All the best,

Vlad.


Re: Call me stupid but..

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I did that and nothing actually happened which is why I mentioned it here. Not sure that the other site will be up to date. Does it still just download the stub?
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Vlad Dragomir" <vladdragomir1983@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2018 3:18 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Call me stupid but..


Hello,

Alternatively, you can go to drive.google.com, press space on Settings, and enter on Download Backup and Sync.

All the best,

Vlad.


Re: new technology challenge

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I had a wonderful one the other day though. A GDPR data storage request by a healthcare organisation with two serious oversights
1. The privacy and terms and conditions were not written yet, and
2. Click on the picture which has a shopfront to prove you are not a robot!
I think in this case though you are right there should not be any need for the signature, unless those at the company are thick as planks.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Sarah k Alawami" <marrie12@gmail.com>
To: "nvda list list" <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2018 2:10 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] new technology challenge


You will need sighted help for this either borrowing a pair of eyes or have soneone remote in via team viewer and do it that way.

Take care

On May 18, 2018, at 6:08 PM, mcLeod stinnett <macks75205@gmail.com> wrote:


--
from mack have win 7 64 bit desktop pc mouse and keyboard. and n v d a 2017.3 my dentist sent me an online form to sign and complete, to save me time on my first visit. however, I can't get past the first page, I can check all the boxes but it says to use your cursor to sign your name below. can a blind person do this, do you need a smart phone, or one a pc with one of those interactive pencils to sign in the box. I don't know how a blind would move a cursor around to make letters without one of those interactive pencil
here is the link,
https://blairconditt.dentalsymphony.com/patient/newpatient.aspx I do have someone to help me when I go to the office, I was just trying to submit the form online, so I would not have to arrive early and bother a sighted person to fill out the paperwork.



Re: Strange behavior of NVDA and Windows 10 at machine startup

 

Hello all,

As I said yesterday, I'll disable NVDA from startup for me as a user and for the sign-in screen and enable Narrator there instead. I've done it, and here are the results. When I booted my machine this morning, Narrator started on the lock/sign-in screen, but that did not invoke the "Ease of access" menu. Otherwise, the behavior is the same: moments after the lock screen appears, it displays user information such as weather forecast, upcoming alarms, etc. So, Microsoft definitely has changed something about how the lock screen works in Windows 10 version 1803. I don't mind those changes, but the appearance of the "Ease of access" menu invoked it seams by NVDA is something that should be fixed.

Strangely enough, I've powered on my "Insider Preview" virtual machine last night and now it does not have this behavior, even though previously it did. The only difference in it now in comparison with before is that now it is running a RS5 (build 17672) of Windows 10 and when the problem occurred it was running RS4 builds of Windows 10 (builds 17134 and older). So, my guess is that maybe there is a bug in Windows 10 RS4, which was fixed in RS5 builds. Let's hope so... I'll keep an eye on things.

BTW: And in answer to a question I think was from Sarah - no, I'll don't have any intentions whatsoever to disable my lock screen, at least for now - I like it this way. 😀

______
Best wishes,
Kostadin Kolev


На 18.5.2018 г. в 10:06, Kostadin Kolev написа:

Hello all,

As I said in my previous message, I've disabled "Fast Boot" yesterday. That however, did not help for the strange behavior - this morning I turned on my PC and the behavior was the same. So, "Fast Boot" is not to blame here.

I'll leave it be as it is for now, until I can gather some useful technical information and eventually report this to Microsoft.

One more thing that I'll try is to disable NVDA at startup for me as a user and for the lock/sign-in screen and instead enable Narrator for that. If the problem with the appearing "Ease of access" menu persists even after that, I'll definitely report this to Microsoft.

______
Best wishes,
Kostadin Kolev


На 17.5.2018 г. в 17:33, Kostadin Kolev написа:

Hello all,

Chris, it is not so. Firstly, I don't hear Narrator speaking and in such a case I should, because it uses a different voice from NVDA. Secondly, I don't see the Narrator Cursor on the screen and with my settings I should, if Narrator is running. Thirdly, I checked in Control Panel -> Ease of access -> Change sign-in settings and Narrator there is not set to run neither on the lock screen, nor after I sign in.

Part of the described in my first message behavior (the one about displaying user information on the lock screen) might be considered as normal, specially if Microsoft have done some changes as to how things load after a "Fast Boot". But I don't think displaying the "Ease of access" menu without me invoking it manually could be considered a normal behavior. And some more food for thought: shouldn't the user's things and information be loaded after he signs in and not before that (?).

I could, and probably will, contact Microsoft about this, but firstly I wanted to ask if I'm the only one experiencing this. I don't think so, because I've experienced it in my virtual machine with Windows 10 Insider Preview, but I've attributed it to the slowness of the virtual machine. Apparently that is not the case.

I've temporarily disabled "Fast Boot" and will test how things go.

______
Best wishes,
Kostadin Kolev


На 17.5.2018 г. в 15:35, Chris via Groups.Io написа:

It sounds like you have both narrator and nvda to start on the login screen, check settings in both narrator and nvda

 

As for the other stuff you can change them in settings > personalization > lock screen

 

So nothing unusual at all really 😃

 

 

 

From: Kostadin Kolev
Sent: 17 May 2018 13:06
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Strange behavior of NVDA and Windows 10 at machine startup

 

Hello all,

I've noticed this strange behavior after the update of Windows 10 to version 1803. The behavior is the following. When the machine starts and Windows 10 loads, it gets to the lock screen as it should. Initially it all looks normal, but only for a while. Moments after that, the lock screen displays not only the time and date as it normally does, but user-specific information as well (e.g. weather forecast, upcoming alarms, etc.). Not only that, but the NVDA startup sound is heard, as if the desktop copy of NVDA is loaded, even though it should load only when the specific user signs in. I can't tell for sure if the desktop copy of NVDA loads, because my NVDA settings for the desktop and secure screen copies of it are the same. On top of that, the "Ease of access" menu appears and NVDA starts reading its menu items one by one. This happens when I power up the machine with "Fast Boot" enabled. I haven't tried with "Fast Boot" disabled, but when I restart the machine, the behavior described above does not occur. So, it must be related to "Fast Boot" somehow. And this did not occur before the update to version 1803 of Windows 10.

Has anyone else experienced the behavior described above? Have you found any solutions besides turning off "Fast Boot"? Turning off "Fast Boot" is also a solution, but I'd prefer to keep it on if possible.

______
Best wishes,
Kostadin Kolev

 





Re: Call me stupid but..

Vlad Dragomir
 

Hello,

Alternatively, you can go to drive.google.com, press space on Settings, and enter on Download Backup and Sync.

All the best,

Vlad.


Re: new technology challenge

Andy
 

Sounds like you would need to use the physical mouse. You will need a biological interface, in other words, sighted assistance.

Andy

----- Original Message -----
From: "Sarah k Alawami" <marrie12@gmail.com>
To: "nvda list list" <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2018 6:10 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] new technology challenge


You will need sighted help for this either borrowing a pair of eyes or have soneone remote in via team viewer and do it that way.

Take care

On May 18, 2018, at 6:08 PM, mcLeod stinnett <macks75205@gmail.com> wrote:


--
from mack have win 7 64 bit desktop pc mouse and keyboard. and n v d a 2017.3 my dentist sent me an online form to sign and complete, to save me time on my first visit. however, I can't get past the first page, I can check all the boxes but it says to use your cursor to sign your name below. can a blind person do this, do you need a smart phone, or one a pc with one of those interactive pencils to sign in the box. I don't know how a blind would move a cursor around to make letters without one of those interactive pencil
here is the link,
https://blairconditt.dentalsymphony.com/patient/newpatient.aspx I do have someone to help me when I go to the office, I was just trying to submit the form online, so I would not have to arrive early and bother a sighted person to fill out the paperwork.



Re: new technology challenge

Jackie
 

W/all due respect, I think you're over-complicating things. If you
scroll down toward the bottom of the page, it says:
"By checking this box I understand the above information and agree
with its contents, and this will serve as my electronic signature for
the Office Policies of Kelly Blair DDS & Mitch Conditt DDS." So all
you need to do is check the box.

On 5/18/18, Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@gmail.com> wrote:
You will need sighted help for this either borrowing a pair of eyes or have
soneone remote in via team viewer and do it that way.

Take care

On May 18, 2018, at 6:08 PM, mcLeod stinnett <macks75205@gmail.com>
wrote:


--
from mack have win 7 64 bit desktop pc mouse and keyboard. and n v d a
2017.3 my dentist sent me an online form to sign and complete, to save me
time on my first visit. however, I can't get past the first page, I can
check all the boxes but it says to use your cursor to sign your name
below. can a blind person do this, do you need a smart phone, or one a pc
with one of those interactive pencils to sign in the box. I don't know
how a blind would move a cursor around to make letters without one of
those interactive pencil
here is the link,
https://blairconditt.dentalsymphony.com/patient/newpatient.aspx I do have
someone to help me when I go to the office, I was just trying to submit
the form online, so I would not have to arrive early and bother a sighted
person to fill out the paperwork.





--
Remember! Friends Help Friends Be Cybersafe
Jackie McBride
Helping Cybercrime Victims 1 Person at a Time
https://brighter-vision.com


Re: new technology challenge

Sarah k Alawami
 

You will need sighted help for this either borrowing a pair of eyes or have soneone remote in via team viewer and do it that way.

Take care

On May 18, 2018, at 6:08 PM, mcLeod stinnett <macks75205@gmail.com> wrote:


--
from mack have win 7 64 bit desktop pc mouse and keyboard. and n v d a 2017.3 my dentist sent me an online form to sign and complete, to save me time on my first visit. however, I can't get past the first page, I can check all the boxes but it says to use your cursor to sign your name below. can a blind person do this, do you need a smart phone, or one a pc with one of those interactive pencils to sign in the box. I don't know how a blind would move a cursor around to make letters without one of those interactive pencil
here is the link,
https://blairconditt.dentalsymphony.com/patient/newpatient.aspx I do have someone to help me when I go to the office, I was just trying to submit the form online, so I would not have to arrive early and bother a sighted person to fill out the paperwork.



new technology challenge

mcLeod stinnett
 

--
from mack have win 7 64 bit desktop pc mouse and keyboard. and n v d a 2017.3 my dentist sent me an online form to sign and complete, to save me time on my first visit. however, I can't get past the first page, I can check all the boxes but it says to use your cursor to sign your name below. can a blind person do this, do you need a smart phone, or one a pc with one of those interactive pencils to sign in the box. I don't know how a blind would move a cursor around to make letters without one of those interactive pencil
here is the link,
https://blairconditt.dentalsymphony.com/patient/newpatient.aspx I do have someone to help me when I go to the office, I was just trying to submit the form online, so I would not have to arrive early and bother a sighted person to fill out the paperwork.


Re: Call me stupid but..

Richard Wells
 

Why not use http://www.ninite.com to grab Google Backup and Sync? That's how I install it.

On 5/18/2018 3:15 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
I simply cannot find any way to initialise the downloading of google back up and sync. In the old version you chose your platform, ie pc, and then you hit a button and a stub downloaded and when you ran it it did the usual checks and downloaded the main files and installed them. I cannot even find the stub, it just goes around and around in circles and nowhere can I see any  link that says, start the download or install.
I have tried IE Firefox and waterfox all with the same result. Surely you don't have to install chrome to get it???
Besides on this showing, that will probably not be obvious on a link either.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.


Re: Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

Sarah k Alawami
 

I can't remember if I replied or not but lists are fine in the explorer.exe app. I'm so far knock on wood not having any issues as far as I can see, except for obs but that's probably a broken app.

On May 16, 2018, at 1:03 AM, Steve Nutt <steve@...> wrote:

Hi,
 
I recently reported that Outlook message lists were not reading for me.
 
It is in fact worse than that, lists in general don’t seem to be reading.  For example, File Explorer in Windows 10 is completely silent for me now.
 
JAWS is reading lists quite happily.
 
Any thoughts?
 
Thanks.
 
All the best
 
Steve
 
--
Computer Room Services
77 Exeter Close
Stevenage
Hertfordshire
SG1 4PW
Tel: +44(0)1438-742286
Mob: +44(0)7956-334938
Fax: +44(0)1438-759589
Email: steve@...
 


Call me stupid but..

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I simply cannot find any way to initialise the downloading of google back up and sync. In the old version you chose your platform, ie pc, and then you hit a button and a stub downloaded and when you ran it it did the usual checks and downloaded the main files and installed them. I cannot even find the stub, it just goes around and around in circles and nowhere can I see any link that says, start the download or install.
I have tried IE Firefox and waterfox all with the same result. Surely you don't have to install chrome to get it???
Besides on this showing, that will probably not be obvious on a link either.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.


Re: Question about Web Browsing

Lino Morales
 

Man Deb you ned to be on the dev list of NVDA girl. You definitely know your stuff.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Deborah Armstrong
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2018 2:42 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing

 

I agree that find is the best way to position yourself to where you need to go on a complex page. The JAWS touch cursor defaults to being a 2-dimensional sort of replacement for the JAWS cursor because Windows no longer lets applications freely move the mouse. So if you don't have a touchscreen you can simulate its behavior with the keyboard.
But it has an advanced mode for the touch cursor that lets you move through the three-dimensional object model, just like Cobra or NVDA. It is looking at the model through UI automation. 

 


Re: Problem signing in with google backu and sync

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I think the problem is that there are believe it or not many people asking me the question, I want a cloud storage that works on xp.
From my recent tests on a Pentium 3 machine running it all either fall over with an error oon install or claim they do not support it.
Google drive was working fine until just a few days ago in the pre back up and sync version but they have disabled it now. I'm guessing its security related not anything else.
Pity, as old XP machines do have usage left in them and it seems annoying to consign them to the great bin of progress for what are basically spurious reasons of no software support.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Vlad Dragomir" <vladdragomir1983@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2018 11:59 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problem signing in with google backu and sync


In my experience, GDrive is more accessible compared to Dropbox, especially the web interface. I use OneDrive as well, but not that often. They all have issues from time to time, far from being perfect, we do agree on that point.


Re: StationPlaylist Studio and Windows 10 App Essentials add-ons: Marlaina Lieberg memorial release #addonrelease

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

If you want to hear more then get the Blind Side Podcast by Jonathan Mozen this week. He has done a special on her.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>
To: "'NVDA'" <nvda@groups.io>
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2018 6:03 PM
Subject: [nvda] StationPlaylist Studio and Windows 10 App Essentials add-ons: Marlaina Lieberg memorial release #AddonRelease


Hi all,



StationPlaylist Studio and Windows 10 App Essentials add-on are getting
stable version updates. These updates serve as a memorial to Marlaina
Lieberg, a long-time member of American Council of the Blind and a champion
of guide dog users, who passed away on May 14, 2018.



In addition to serving as memorials, these add-on releases contain numerous
enhancements and fixes:



* StationPlaylist studio 18.05.1: localization updates.
* Windows 10 App Essentials 18.05.2: introducing basic support for
Sets in Redstone 5 and various workarounds to support redesigned emoji panel
in recent Windows Insider Preview builds.



Also, for those curious about inner workings of Windows 10 App Essentials
add-on, the add-on internals article has been updated:

https://github.com/nvdaaddons/devguide/wiki/w10addoninternals



Enjoy, and if you can, please pay tribute to Marlaina Lieberg this weekend
and and wish her family well and send condolences. Thanks.

Cheers,

Joseph


Re: Question about Web Browsing

Deborah Armstrong <debee@...>
 

I agree that find is the best way to position yourself to where you need to go on a complex page. The JAWS touch cursor defaults to being a 2-dimensional sort of replacement for the JAWS cursor because Windows no longer lets applications freely move the mouse. So if you don't have a touchscreen you can simulate its behavior with the keyboard.
But it has an advanced mode for the touch cursor that lets you move through the three-dimensional object model, just like Cobra or NVDA. It is looking at the model through UI automation. 


Re: Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

Hi, Jessica,


The only thing Ican think of is to delete programs you don't need anymore to free up space.


Hope this helps somewhat.


Rosemarie



On 5/17/2018 9:07 AM, Jessica D wrote:

Hi,

I can’t even install 1803, even though it’s finally showed up on my system.

Apparently, I’m running out of storage, and cannot free any.

 

Other than a clean install, what can I do to free up space?

 

Thanks,

Jessica

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Joseph Lee
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 12:04 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

Hi,

No, Sets is turned off by default not because it is actually turned off, but because many of you running Windows 10 won’t see it for a while. If you are using Version 1803 (build 17134), rest assured that Sets isn’t part of that release; it is, however, part of recent Windows Insider Preview builds.

As for Sets and NVDA (as of Insider Preview build 17672): it is usable. There are some oddities when you actually launch Sets and try to search for things, but for the most part, it is usable. Part of the usability came due to what NVDA already provides, will provide in 2018.2, future work, and my “writings”:

  • What NVDA already provides: support for Microsoft Edge.
  • What NVDA will provide in 2018.2: app notification announcement in Windows 10 Version 1709 and later.
  • Future work: foundations to support Sets will be laid in the next few months.
  • My writings: Windows 10 App Essentials 18.05.2 (tomorrow) will let you see how Sets work in code (as far as the add-on is concerned).

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 7:34 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

I believe I read that sets is off by default but I'm not sure.  If not, you can turn them off.  Here is an article that describes how. 

Perhaps, instead of just rejecting the feature out of hand, a little time might be spent learning about them and trying them to see if they would be useful. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Gene

----- Original Message -----

 

Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 4:59 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

Hello,

 

Having followed this thread with interest, I am still not sure whether the “sets” issue is on by default or not, if it’s not, then I don’t see the problem, just don’t turn it on until problems with screen readers are resolved. I haven’t got the latest update yet, I have my working hours set to6 am to 12 midnight and the computer is off outside those hours, I got a message recently  something like, “we couldn’t find a time to download updates”, could this be a way of stopping these updates to windows ten? or am I dreaming?, if it works, it could b a way of postponing them until all problems with screen readers are resolved.

 

I should say that I have Eset smart security on my system and this largely disables Windows defender anyway.

 

To Steve, I bet you are sad that Window eyes is now defunkt? I also noted from one of FS webinar that Jaws is likely to do away with the 40 minute mode in favour of a 30 day trial, Lots of people can’t afford the price of Jaws, I am lucky enough to have had it for years, Long live NVDA for those who are not in my position. I do understand that Steve runs a well known business and needs to have everything working to do his job, but Jaws hasn’t always been so brilliant, and still isn’t with some third party programs.

 

 

Best Regards, Jim.

 

From: Steve Nutt

Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 8:19 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

Well if I was on NVDA only today, I couldn’t do my job.  This is why it’s always good to have more than one screen reader.

 

Besides, you’re probably not on Windows 10 1803 Spring Creators, which is where these issues started for me.

 

But saying I should be using NVDA and not JAWS doesn’t really add value to this thread, I merely reported that NVDA is broken for me on several machines.

 

All the best


Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Walker, Michael E
Sent: 16 May 2018 17:51
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

NVDA is broken? How so? I am on NVDA 2018.1.1. I always tell people thinking about using JAWS that they should be long on NVDA and short on JAWS, since NVDA is free and open source, and provides the same quality. It is kind of like John Wayne’s advice to be long on ears and short on jaws, but with my screen reader twist.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 11:48 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

Hi,

 

I have to say, over all, Windows 10 is snappier than Windows 7 ever was.

 

It’s just these glitches that get us.

 

What’s odd with this particular issue is that NVDA and Narrator are quite broken, but JAWS is a happy screen reader.  So they are obviously doing some serious hacking to get UIA to work as well as it does with JAWS.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 16 May 2018 17:00
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

That is only true if a lot of users, sighted users, get annoyed enough to matter.  A lot of the changes that inconvenience blind users until they learn how to use them may be intuitive and quickly understood by sighted users.  and, in the case of screen-reader problems, sighted people wouldn't have any of those problems.  Also, as in the new feature of sets, they may not be on by default.  As I recall what I read, sets is off by default.

 

But every time a new major update to Windows comes out, I see enough blind users have problems that I'm in no hurry to get Windows 10.  Even if the problems are temporary, such as screen-reader problems that are dealt with not too long after the upgrade, Windows 10 has nothing I want that justifies even relatively minor inconveniences time after time.

 

I'll get it when I get a new computer.  I won't upgrade a machine that is working very well with an earlier version of Windows.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 10:47 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

I think the one thing I'm really annoyed about is that Microsoft keep on
fiddling with things that used to work and making them not work. I have
actually given  up on 10 as a working platform, unless Microsoft can simply
provide a system stable and just with security updates like windows 7. They
are not doing themselves any good by bringing out new versions of windows
every6 months or so in my view, they are going to make Windows 7 into the
keep hold of system just like XP if they are not more careful. Fine have new
features but do not change the whole concept and still call it windows 10.
that is just silly. That is my feeling after being exposed to their messing
about. its as if the developers who used to regularly screw up Skype have
been let loose on the innards of Windows!
Hides behind sofa.  Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 3:44 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803


> Oh and isn't it time NVDA installed Win 10 essentials automagically if Win
> 10 is detected?  New users shouldn't certainly have to go hunting for
> addons
> for their screen reader.
>
> All the best
>
> Steve
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
> Sent: 16 May 2018 15:43
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>
> Hi,
>
> I just downloaded Win 10 essentials stable today, but it doesn't seem to
> make much difference.
>
> I must play a bit more.
>
> All the best
>
> Steve
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail
> list account via Groups.Io
> Sent: 16 May 2018 13:17
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>
> I expect Joseph will be along soon to ask about the  version of win 10
> essentials you have, but have you tried the pre release master snap?
> If that fails too then somebody in the development team needs to try to
> isolate what makes some machines work and others not.
> Brian
>
> bglists@...
> Sent via blueyonder.
> Please address personal E-mail to:-
> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
> in the display name field.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Nutt" <mailto:steve@...>
> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 12:31 PM
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>
>
>> Hi Jacob,
>>
>>
>>
>> I have three machines here, all on 1803.  None of them work at all
>> well with NVDA in Windows 10, in fact, File Explorer is pretty much
>> unusable, as is Outlook.
>>
>>
>>
>> At this point, I'm glad I have JAWS as well.  But I don't know why
>> NVDA is so broken with 1803, more so than JAWS.
>>
>>
>>
>> All the best
>>
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jacob
>> Kruger
>> Sent: 16 May 2018 09:10
>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>>
>>
>>
>> Steve, this sounds almost like an iteration of what I was mentioning -
>> it seems to fluctuate/vary quite a bit on/off on my one windows 10
>> 1803 machine, which is a lenovo laptop, whereas on my slightly lower
>> hardware specification desktop machine, that does however have a solid
>> state operating system drive in it, it actually seems to react a bit
>> more consistently, in terms of reading out list items, like in file
>> explorer, to me, and, this is with both of them running windows 10
>> 1803 pro 64 bit, and, currently both running NVDA master snapshot.
>>
>>
>>
>> Stay well
>>
>>
>>
>> Jacob Kruger
>> Blind Biker
>> Skype: BlindZA
>> "Resistance is futile...but, acceptance is versatile..."
>>
>> On 5/16/2018 10:03 AM, Steve Nutt wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>>
>>
>> I recently reported that Outlook message lists were not reading for me.
>>
>>
>>
>> It is in fact worse than that, lists in general don't seem to be reading.
>> For example, File Explorer in Windows 10 is completely silent for me now.
>>
>>
>>
>> JAWS is reading lists quite happily.
>>
>>
>>
>> Any thoughts?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>>
>>
>> All the best
>>
>>
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Computer Room Services
>>
>> 77 Exeter Close
>>
>> Stevenage
>>
>> Hertfordshire
>>
>> SG1 4PW
>>
>> Tel: +44(0)1438-742286
>>
>> Mob: +44(0)7956-334938
>>
>> Fax: +44(0)1438-759589
>>
>> Email:  <mailto:steve@...> steve@...
>>
>> Web:  <http://www.comproom.co.uk/> http://www.comproom.co.uk
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

 



Re: Strange behavior of NVDA and Windows 10 at machine startup

Sarah k Alawami
 

Have you disabled the lock screen? You can do that in the admin control panel or through the rigestry. I love the console you get with windows 10 pro. No need to use the registry to turn that off. I find my system boots much faster with out it.

On May 18, 2018, at 12:06 AM, Kostadin Kolev <k.kolev1985@...> wrote:

Hello all,

As I said in my previous message, I've disabled "Fast Boot" yesterday. That however, did not help for the strange behavior - this morning I turned on my PC and the behavior was the same. So, "Fast Boot" is not to blame here.

I'll leave it be as it is for now, until I can gather some useful technical information and eventually report this to Microsoft.

One more thing that I'll try is to disable NVDA at startup for me as a user and for the lock/sign-in screen and instead enable Narrator for that. If the problem with the appearing "Ease of access" menu persists even after that, I'll definitely report this to Microsoft.

______
Best wishes,
Kostadin Kolev


На 17.5.2018 г. в 17:33, Kostadin Kolev написа:

Hello all,

Chris, it is not so. Firstly, I don't hear Narrator speaking and in such a case I should, because it uses a different voice from NVDA. Secondly, I don't see the Narrator Cursor on the screen and with my settings I should, if Narrator is running. Thirdly, I checked in Control Panel -> Ease of access -> Change sign-in settings and Narrator there is not set to run neither on the lock screen, nor after I sign in.

Part of the described in my first message behavior (the one about displaying user information on the lock screen) might be considered as normal, specially if Microsoft have done some changes as to how things load after a "Fast Boot". But I don't think displaying the "Ease of access" menu without me invoking it manually could be considered a normal behavior. And some more food for thought: shouldn't the user's things and information be loaded after he signs in and not before that (?).

I could, and probably will, contact Microsoft about this, but firstly I wanted to ask if I'm the only one experiencing this. I don't think so, because I've experienced it in my virtual machine with Windows 10 Insider Preview, but I've attributed it to the slowness of the virtual machine. Apparently that is not the case.

I've temporarily disabled "Fast Boot" and will test how things go.

______
Best wishes,
Kostadin Kolev


На 17.5.2018 г. в 15:35, Chris via Groups.Io написа:
It sounds like you have both narrator and nvda to start on the login screen, check settings in both narrator and nvda
 
As for the other stuff you can change them in settings > personalization > lock screen
 
So nothing unusual at all really 😃
 
 
 
From: Kostadin Kolev
Sent: 17 May 2018 13:06
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Strange behavior of NVDA and Windows 10 at machine startup
 

Hello all,

I've noticed this strange behavior after the update of Windows 10 to version 1803. The behavior is the following. When the machine starts and Windows 10 loads, it gets to the lock screen as it should. Initially it all looks normal, but only for a while. Moments after that, the lock screen displays not only the time and date as it normally does, but user-specific information as well (e.g. weather forecast, upcoming alarms, etc.). Not only that, but the NVDA startup sound is heard, as if the desktop copy of NVDA is loaded, even though it should load only when the specific user signs in. I can't tell for sure if the desktop copy of NVDA loads, because my NVDA settings for the desktop and secure screen copies of it are the same. On top of that, the "Ease of access" menu appears and NVDA starts reading its menu items one by one. This happens when I power up the machine with "Fast Boot" enabled. I haven't tried with "Fast Boot" disabled, but when I restart the machine, the behavior described above does not occur. So, it must be related to "Fast Boot" somehow. And this did not occur before the update to version 1803 of Windows 10.

Has anyone else experienced the behavior described above? Have you found any solutions besides turning off "Fast Boot"? Turning off "Fast Boot" is also a solution, but I'd prefer to keep it on if possible.

______
Best wishes,
Kostadin Kolev