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Re: Web Page navigation
Gene
I would think that there is a more efficient way to
find the first link to a blog. Perhaps there is wording on the page
immediately before the first post that is reliably on the page whenever you load
it. See my previous message about the search command.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Cearbhall O'Meadhra
Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2016 10:37 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation William,
I would suggest you press the letter “k” on the main keyboard. This will move from link to link. The first ones will say Facebook and Twitter, etc. keep going until you hear a news topic that you would like to know more about. Then press the down-arrow key to see how the blog begins. If you would like to read more just press the enter key and the full article should open.
All the best,
Cearbhall
m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...
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From:
nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Gene
I don't know what you are searching for so I can't comment speciffically. If you know what you want to find, then of course, the find command is very useful. If you aren't sure, it may not be, at least looking in that way. In this case, you may have to use a method I've described to move to the beginning of articles. Then if you want to move from article to article. tab through the links.
You will then skip all explanatory text.
gene ----- Original Message ----- From: willmac@... Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2016 7:31 AM Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation
Hi Gene,
Thanks. I will work on this and see how I manage. First attempts are a bit discouraging. Am not getting same responses as you suggest. Regards,
William
------ Original Message ------ From: "Gene New Zealand" <hurrikennyandopo@...> Sent: 2016/05/12 11:03:11 AM Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation
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Re: Web Page navigation
Gene
I'm trying to do both because so many blind people
don't use the Internet eefficiently. In addition, it is more efficient in
this case to use the skip links command as I described and then tab or use the
letter k to move from link to link. The links list doesn't have any way to
skip the navigation links.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Gene, When the format of a given specific webpage is known, and in this case it is known to be nothing more than a list of links to articles, I don't think it's a disservice to anyone who cannot see to state that fact and to tell them that for this particular page using an elements list is the way to go. I'm not trying to teach general principles here, but to help someone get through a very specific webpage, and its child pages. And, yes, that's my opinion when I
have a specific case under discussion, not a "how would one best go about this
in the general case of an unfamiliar page." Even then I'd encourage
someone to give the elements list a look to get a quick snapshot regarding what
links, headers, or landmarks might or might not be present. There's more
than one way to skin a cat. Never underestimate the difficulty of changing false beliefs by
facts.
~ Henry Rosovsky
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Re: Web Page navigation
Gene, When the format of a given specific webpage is known, and in this case it is known to be nothing more than a list of links to articles, I don't think it's a disservice to anyone who cannot see to state that fact and to tell them that for this particular page using an elements list is the way to go. I'm not trying to teach general principles here, but to help someone get through a very specific webpage, and its child pages. And, yes, that's my opinion when I have a specific case under discussion, not a "how would one best go about this in the general case of an unfamiliar page." Even then I'd encourage someone to give the elements list a look to get a quick snapshot regarding what links, headers, or landmarks might or might not be present. There's more than one way to skin a cat. Never underestimate the difficulty of changing false beliefs by facts. ~ Henry Rosovsky
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Re: Web Page navigation
Cearbhall O'Meadhra
William,
I would suggest you press the letter “k” on the main keyboard. This will move from link to link. The first ones will say Facebook and Twitter, etc. keep going until you hear a news topic that you would like to know more about. Then press the down-arrow key to see how the blog begins. If you would like to read more just press the enter key and the full article should open.
All the best,
Cearbhall
m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...
I use the free version of Spam Reader to get rid of spam. The Professional version doesn't have this disclaimer in outgoing emails. Try Spam Reader for free now!
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2016 1:56 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation
I don't know what you are searching for so I can't comment speciffically. If you know what you want to find, then of course, the find command is very useful. If you aren't sure, it may not be, at least looking in that way. In this case, you may have to use a method I've described to move to the beginning of articles. Then if you want to move from article to article. tab through the links.
You will then skip all explanatory text.
gene ----- Original Message ----- From: willmac@... Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2016 7:31 AM Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation
Hi Gene,
Thanks. I will work on this and see how I manage. First attempts are a bit discouraging. Am not getting same responses as you suggest. Regards,
William
------ Original Message ------ From: "Gene New Zealand" <hurrikennyandopo@...> Sent: 2016/05/12 11:03:11 AM Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation
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Re: Web Page navigation
Gene
Saying that is the easiest is a matter of
opinion. Also, using the links list on unfamiliar pages and not using
techniques such as I described, doesn't allow you to interact directly with the
page. That doesn't allow for development of the kinds of skills I
described and may make difficult pages more difficult to work with. In my
opinion, teaching use of the links list before other direct methods of working
with web pages is a real disservice to blind Internet users.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
The web page to which the link was provided is unusual in that it is, for all intents and purposes, a page entirely of links to various articles in the newsletter. The easiest way to see what those are is to to an NDVA+F7 to get an elements list and then go through link by link to listen for the article, or articles, you may wish to read and then activate same. Virtually every article title link is also followed by a "Read more" link, which simply takes you to the same spot as the main link itself, and there are some really weird link titles that are related to advertising on the page. Once you've reached the "Front Page" link you know the list of article links is done. There are no headings or landmarks on this page. If you select a given article the easiest way to get to the article text itself once the page is loaded is to bring up the elements list again, use headings elements instead of links, and hunt for the title text of the article on that page then activate that. This lets you skip past all the navigation links and the like. Brian Never underestimate the difficulty of changing false beliefs by
facts.
~ Henry Rosovsky
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Re: Web Page navigation
The web page to which the link was provided is unusual in that it is, for all intents and purposes, a page entirely of links to various articles in the newsletter. The easiest way to see what those are is to to an NDVA+F7 to get an elements list and then go through link by link to listen for the article, or articles, you may wish to read and then activate same. Virtually every article title link is also followed by a "Read more" link, which simply takes you to the same spot as the main link itself, and there are some really weird link titles that are related to advertising on the page. Once you've reached the "Front Page" link you know the list of article links is done. There are no headings or landmarks on this page. If you select a given article the easiest way to get to the article text itself once the page is loaded is to bring up the elements list again, use headings elements instead of links, and hunt for the title text of the article on that page then activate that. This lets you skip past all the navigation links and the like. Brian Never underestimate the difficulty of changing false beliefs by facts. ~ Henry Rosovsky
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Re: Firefox 46.0.1 and Webvisum: Working perfectly well!
P. Otter
hi, i agree, it works beautifull
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
thanks!!! cheers paul otter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mallard" <mallard@kimabe.eu> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2016 4:46 PM Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 46.0.1 and Webvisum: Working perfectly well! I downloaded and installed it, replacing the previous one I had, and it works a treat...
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Re: Web Page navigation
Gene
It is a copy of a newsletter. I don't know
how many newsletters use the kind of headings that screen-readers can
detect. Nothing has been stripped out. However the newsletter is
written, it doesn't use headers. And if it did, since most items are links
to articles, headings wouldn't help much unless specific departments or articles
that repeatedly deal with the same subject from week to week are headings and
nothing else. Having links be headings would be worthless. You would
simply have another way to move through links in that case.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2016 9:49 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation Strangely some of the other pages on that site are fine, its as if the main page has had its headers stripped out for some weird reason. I'm not a great fan of sites that put read more all over the place as pretty soon you have tabs open all over the place to find simple things out. Why not put a digest on the page to start with. Brian bglists@... Sent via blueyonder. Please address personal email to:- briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff' in the display name field. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene" <gsasner@...> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2016 1:43 PM Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation If things like headings and the skip blocks of links command don't work, look through the page. See what you might want to use the find command for. Itt's helpful and useful when pages have useable headings but all sorts of people design internet pages. It is important to know how to use the Internet without relying on the kindness of strangers. The find command control NVDA key f, is one of the most valuable and undertaught and underused commands for effective navigation. On a newsletter I receive, there are no headinggs. But article links and descriptions begin immediately after the word placeholder. I search for place and I then start tabbing through the article links. I tab instead of down arrow so I won't see all the explanatary text for articles I'm not interested in. I intentionally looked for something that was repetitive and reliavle that would be in the same place on the page and would reliably take me to just about where articles begin. I then used the search command when working with the daily newsletter. You may find something near whatever you want to find on this or other pages. Also, on many web pages such as newspaper pages, a good way to find a section of the paper is to do a search. Make sure, in this case and in general, that you are at the top of the page. Then search for something you know is there from previously looking at the page or for something you think is a good guesss if you want to try not looking at the page. For example, if the page has and editorials link, searching for edito will take you to it. You may have to repeat the search by using NVDA key f to get to the right place. Usually, typing four and sometimes the first five letters of what you are searching for will move you the the word reliably. There is no need to type long phrases when looking for the kinds of things I am describing. If you watch for patterns, you can save lots of time on some unfamiliar pages by not having to look through them. Two examples are: If you are on the home page of a radio station, and all you want to do is listen to the station, most such pages have the word listen in the link. So, making sure you are at the top of the page, searching and repeating the search, if necessary, will move you to the link. Most web sites use the word contact in the link for writing to the site. That's another example. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Brian's Mail list account Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2016 5:30 AM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation The web page is rubbish, no headings to navigate with. Brian bglists@... Sent via blueyonder. Please address personal email to:- briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff' in the display name field. ----- Original Message ----- From: <willmac@...> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2016 9:18 AM Subject: [nvda] Web Page navigation Hi, I find it difficult move around in a web page and get NVDA to speak continually on any given item. The following is the URL http://t.digitalnewspaper.co.za/nl/jsp/m.jsp?c=%40fjNSuVTurK7VzhMSOxyzIucXl%2BKsnii1IrXYxuvhTwY%3D Witch is one of the pages I would like to navigate. Would it be possible for some kind member to list the short-cut keys necessary to enable me to do this. Regards, William
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Re: Web Page navigation
Brian's Mail list account BY <bglists@...>
Yes I was responding to the direct question about using single keys. Strangely some of the other pages on that site are fine, its as if the main page has had its headers stripped out for some weird reason. I'm not a great fan of sites that put read more all over the place as pretty soon you have tabs open all over the place to find simple things out. Why not put a digest on the page to start with.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Brian bglists@blueyonder.co.uk Sent via blueyonder. Please address personal email to:- briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff' in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <gsasner@ripco.com> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2016 1:43 PM Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation If things like headings and the skip blocks of links command don't work, look through the page. See what you might want to use the find command for. Itt's helpful and useful when pages have useable headings but all sorts of people design internet pages. It is important to know how to use the Internet without relying on the kindness of strangers. The find command control NVDA key f, is one of the most valuable and undertaught and underused commands for effective navigation. On a newsletter I receive, there are no headinggs. But article links and descriptions begin immediately after the word placeholder. I search for place and I then start tabbing through the article links. I tab instead of down arrow so I won't see all the explanatary text for articles I'm not interested in. I intentionally looked for something that was repetitive and reliavle that would be in the same place on the page and would reliably take me to just about where articles begin. I then used the search command when working with the daily newsletter. You may find something near whatever you want to find on this or other pages. Also, on many web pages such as newspaper pages, a good way to find a section of the paper is to do a search. Make sure, in this case and in general, that you are at the top of the page. Then search for something you know is there from previously looking at the page or for something you think is a good guesss if you want to try not looking at the page. For example, if the page has and editorials link, searching for edito will take you to it. You may have to repeat the search by using NVDA key f to get to the right place. Usually, typing four and sometimes the first five letters of what you are searching for will move you the the word reliably. There is no need to type long phrases when looking for the kinds of things I am describing. If you watch for patterns, you can save lots of time on some unfamiliar pages by not having to look through them. Two examples are: If you are on the home page of a radio station, and all you want to do is listen to the station, most such pages have the word listen in the link. So, making sure you are at the top of the page, searching and repeating the search, if necessary, will move you to the link. Most web sites use the word contact in the link for writing to the site. That's another example. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Brian's Mail list account Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2016 5:30 AM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation The web page is rubbish, no headings to navigate with. Brian bglists@blueyonder.co.uk Sent via blueyonder. Please address personal email to:- briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff' in the display name field. ----- Original Message ----- From: <willmac@lantic.net> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2016 9:18 AM Subject: [nvda] Web Page navigation Hi, I find it difficult move around in a web page and get NVDA to speak continually on any given item. The following is the URL http://t.digitalnewspaper.co.za/nl/jsp/m.jsp?c=%40fjNSuVTurK7VzhMSOxyzIucXl%2BKsnii1IrXYxuvhTwY%3D Witch is one of the pages I would like to navigate. Would it be possible for some kind member to list the short-cut keys necessary to enable me to do this. Regards, William
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Re: Firefox 46.0.1 and Webvisum: Working perfectly well!
Mallard
I downloaded and installed it, replacing the previous one I had, and it works a treat...
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Thanks Gene. Ciao, Ollie
Il 12/05/2016 14:17, Gene ha scritto:
That is the site of the developers. That site doesn't have the new version because the developers do nothing with Webvisum except leave the site up and the add on active.
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Re: mOUSE pOINTER
Gene
This has nothing to do with the mouse
pointer. You evidently want to read from where the virtual cursor is in
browse mode. The command is NVDA key down arrow if you are using the
default desktop layout. This is the read to end command that works in word
processors or in any standard multiline edit fieldd. I don't know how much
you know about NVDA but if you know little, I would suggest using a tutorial or
the user guide, if you prefer. Also, there is a command reference in the
help section of the program. You may save yourself a lot of trouble and
inconvenience learning in an organized manner.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Hi,
Is there some simple NVDA key short cut which will have NVDA speak from
where the cursor or mouse pointer is located?
Regards,
William
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NVDA bug in Chrome
Øyvind Lode
Hello:
NVDA doesn't speak nor output Braille when composing a new email in gmail (standard view). This applies to the message body edit box. No feedback when typing and also no feedback when trying to review what I've written. To: and Subject works fine. I'm running NVDA 2016.1 and latest Chrome 50.x. It works fine in latest Firefox 46.x. Is this a NVDA bug or a bug in Chrome? Thanks, Øyvind
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mOUSE pOINTER
willmac@lantic.net
Hi,
Is there some simple NVDA key short cut which will have NVDA speak from where the cursor or mouse pointer is located?
Regards,
William
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Re: Web Page navigation
Bhavya shah
hi Gene,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
One of the things I have significantly learnt by reading yours and others postings, is the underrated 'n' command to skip blocks of links. It has proved extremely useful on pages where I want to read some text as opposed to navigation abd browsing and exploration, such as an article, description or something of that sort, and I particularly use that on pages with no good headings, sections or thinkable keystrokes to directly press. I would strongly recommend others to try and make a conscious use of this command sometimes, and you will realize its potential and the power it provides. Thanks.
On 5/12/16, Gene <gsasner@ripco.com> wrote:
I don't know what you are searching for so I can't comment speciffically. --
Warm Regards Bhavya Shah Using NVDA (Non Visual Desktop Access) free and open source screen reader for Microsoft Windows To download a copy of the free screen reader NVDA, please visit http://www.nvaccess.org/ Using Google Talkback on Motorolla G second generation Lollipop 5.0.2 Reach me through the following means: Mobile: +91 7506221750 E-mail id: bhavya.shah125@gmail.com Skype id : bhavya.09
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Re: Web Page navigation
Gene
I don't know what you are searching for so I
can't comment speciffically. If you know what you want to find, then of
course, the find command is very useful. If you aren't sure, it may not
be, at least looking in that way. In this case, you may have to use a
method I've described to move to the beginning of articles. Then if you
want to move from article to article. tab through the links.
You will then skip all explanatory
text.
gene
----- Original Message -----
From: willmac@...
Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2016 7:31 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation Hi Gene,
Thanks. I will work on this and see how I manage. First attempts are a bit
discouraging.
Am not getting same responses as you suggest.
Regards,
William
------ Original Message ------
From: "Gene New Zealand" <hurrikennyandopo@...>
Sent: 2016/05/12 11:03:11 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation
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Re: Web Page navigation
Gene
Also, on a page like this, the skip blocks of links
command may be useful and convenient. If you are at the top of the page.
using it twice on this page takes you to the start of the text that actually
begins the news content. If you look at the page, you will find that you
have skipped many links using this very convenient method. Simply make
sure you are at the top of the page and type the letter n twice. Then
start reading or moving down the page in whatever way you want.
Gene
From: willmac@...
Hi,
I find it difficult move around in a web page and get NVDA to speak
continually on any given item.
The following is the URL http://t.digitalnewspaper.co.za/nl/jsp/m.jsp?c=%40fjNSuVTurK7VzhMSOxyzIucXl%2BKsnii1IrXYxuvhTwY%3D
Witch is one of the pages I would like to navigate.
Would it be possible for some kind member to list the short-cut keys
necessary to enable me to do this.
Regards,
William
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Re: Web Page navigation
Gene
If things like headings and the skip blocks of
links command don't work, look through the page. See what you might want
to use the find command for. Itt's helpful and useful when pages have
useable headings but all sorts of people design internet pages. It is
important to know how to use the Internet without relying on the kindness of
strangers. The find command control NVDA key f, is one of the most
valuable and undertaught and underused commands for effective
navigation.
On a newsletter I receive, there are no
headinggs. But article links and descriptions begin immediately after the
word placeholder.
I search for place and I then start tabbing through
the article links. I tab instead of down arrow so I won't see all the
explanatary text for articles I'm not interested in. I intentionally
looked for something that was repetitive and reliavle that would be in the same
place on the page and would reliably take me to just about where articles
begin. I then used the search command when working with the daily
newsletter.
You may find something near whatever you want to
find on this or other pages. Also, on many web pages such as newspaper
pages, a good way to find a section of the paper is to do a search. Make
sure, in this case and in general, that you are at the top of the page.
Then search for something you know is there from previously looking at the page
or for something you think is a good guesss if you want to try not looking at
the page. For example, if the page has and editorials link, searching for
edito will take you to it. You may have to repeat the search by using NVDA
key f to get to the right place. Usually, typing four and sometimes the
first five letters of what you are searching for will move you the the word
reliably. There is no need to type long phrases when looking for the kinds
of things I am describing.
If you watch for patterns, you can save lots of
time on some unfamiliar pages by not having to look through them. Two
examples are:
If you are on the home page of a radio station, and
all you want to do is listen to the station, most such pages have the word
listen in the link. So, making sure you are at the top of the page,
searching and repeating the search, if necessary, will move you to the
link. Most web sites use the word contact in the link for writing to
the site. That's another example.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2016 5:30 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation Brian bglists@... Sent via blueyonder. Please address personal email to:- briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff' in the display name field. ----- Original Message ----- From: <willmac@...> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2016 9:18 AM Subject: [nvda] Web Page navigation Hi, I find it difficult move around in a web page and get NVDA to speak continually on any given item. The following is the URL http://t.digitalnewspaper.co.za/nl/jsp/m.jsp?c=%40fjNSuVTurK7VzhMSOxyzIucXl%2BKsnii1IrXYxuvhTwY%3D Witch is one of the pages I would like to navigate. Would it be possible for some kind member to list the short-cut keys necessary to enable me to do this. Regards, William
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Re: Web Page navigation
willmac@lantic.net
Hi Gene,
Thanks. I will work on this and see how I manage. First attempts are a bit discouraging.
Am not getting same responses as you suggest.
Regards,
William
------ Original Message ------
From: "Gene New Zealand" <hurrikennyandopo@...>
Sent: 2016/05/12 11:03:11 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation
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Re: Firefox 46.0.1 and Webvisum: Working perfectly well!
Gene
That is the site of the developers. That site
doesn't have the new version because the developers do nothing with Webvisum
except leave the site up and the add on active.
I gave a link to the Blind
Bargains article which explains how to download and install the add on and provides a link to it. Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Mendoza
Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2016 2:58 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 46.0.1 and Webvisum: Working perfectly
well! Just want to ensure that the site is correct. Below is the link: Robert Mendoza On 5/12/2016 8:32 AM, Robert Mendoza wrote:
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Re: NVDA and Libreoffice spreadsheets
hi.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
i press f2 to navigate and also in this situation, edit mode is activated. if you press scape, you are in normal mode and only you can read, but not edit! hope thats help. thanks and god bless you. thanks for asking!
On 5/12/16, Dan Beaver <dbeaver888@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi, --
Those who follow the Messenger-Prophet, the Ummi, whom they find written down with them in the Taurat and the Injeel [who] enjoins them good and forbids them evil, and makes lawful to them the good things and makes unlawful to them impure things, and removes from them their burden and the shackles which were upon them; so [as for] those who believe in him and honor him and help him, and follow the light which has been sent down with him, these it is that are the successful. holy quran, chapter 7, verse 157. best website for studying islamic book in different languages al-islam.org
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