Date   

Re: What will be with Espeak NG?

Angela Delicata
 

Actually, I do not use espeak and hate it... I hope in the future nvda devs will use another synth as nvda default and not Espeak which is really really bad.

Il 23/05/2018 16:24, Ervin, Glenn ha scritto:
This is good, as whenever I install it for people who are new to a screenreader, I have to apologize for eSpeak, even though it is totally intelligible to me.
It is not my synth of choice, but it works and I am happy to have it as a free option.
Glenn


From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Quentin Christensen
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 3:46 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] What will be with Espeak NG?

Hi Marco,

Actually we don't develop eSpeak to begin with. We use eSpeak NG which has a GitHub repository and is open source, just like NVDA: https://github.com/espeak-ng/espeak-ng

We are still including eSpeak NG with NVDA. We are just changing the default synthesizer when you install it on Windows 10, to the Windows OneCore voices. From talking with users, and importantly, with people who don't use NVDA (and why), we found that a lot of people "Like NVDA, but the voice is very robotic". As much as we would encourage people to explore the settings and find a setup that works for them, the truth is, people, particularly when testing something new, will first try the default setup, and if something is too jarring (as eSpeak NG is for some users), they may stop using it and not come back, even though if they were using Windows 10, there are more human sounding voices available on their system.

So, for NVDA 2018.2, we are making Windows OneCore voice the default on Windows 10, but we will still bundle eSpeak with NVDA, and we know many advanced users will switch back to it, and that is fine. Note if you already have NVDA installed and upgrade to NVDA 2018.2, it won't change what you have setup.

I hope that answers your question, but if you have any more questions, please don't hesitate to ask!

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Wed, May 23, 2018 at 5:57 PM, Marco Oros <marco.oros93@gmail.com<mailto:marco.oros93@gmail.com>> wrote:
I have heard, that default synthesizer will be Windows Onecore and not Espeak NG. I have a question.
NVDA team will stop implement new versions of Espeak? Or, why this thing were happened?
Thank You.
Marco Oros





--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org<http://www.nvaccess.org/>
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess


Re: About Linux

Tyler Wood
 

The gui version of linux is similar to windows 95, featuring crashes. Nobody really works on Orca because 0.001% of the user base is visually impaired. Things will not read, you are forced to use the terminal, which of course does and should work 100%.


Linux is great for servers, wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy for the average consumer's every day OS. JMT, though. Whatever works for folks and the like.



On 23-May-2018 9:36 AM, Devin Prater wrote:
I don’t have issues with the terminal. I use Emacs for goodness sake, and love most console programs, but most users find the terminal complicated and obscure, and I can tell you that you will need it, especially as a visually impaired person.

On May 23, 2018, at 8:23 AM, JM Casey <crystallogic@...> wrote:

Well, unlike that other poster over there (:P), I never had any issue with using the terminal, although my only previous experience had been logging into a shell via Telnet from a Dos machine in the mid 90s. However I remember a lot of my time using the Linux box I had set up in 2008 was also spent reading man pages.
 
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Devin Prater
Sent: May 23, 2018 9:00 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] About Linux
 
You will always need the terminal for something. Something breaks? You’ll find guides with terminal instructions. Of course, some of it can be just copied and pasted, but most of it most be customized for your system, your files, your initialization scripts, and so on. I’m just trying to give the facts as they are, not say Linux is bad because it isn’t, but it does require that you know at least how to use the terminal, and what files you have, where they are, and an understanding of the structure of your file system.


On May 23, 2018, at 7:55 AM, JM Casey <crystallogic@...> wrote:
 
Good post. That said, I don't know how much things have changed, but when I was using a Linux box in 2008 or so, I had a hell of a battle with orca. Always crashing. And Gnome was the only desktop GUI environment it actually worked in. Someday I'd like to give it another go, as I really like Linux in theory -- just seemed to be spending more time trying to fix things than actually accomplishing stuff with the oS. 

-----Original Message-----
From: 
nvda@nvda.groups.io[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Antony Stone
Sent: May 23, 2018 4:58 AM
To: 
nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] About Linux

You do not have to use the command line on Linux unless you want to.

There are many distributions which provide a graphical environment from the default installation, and although you can open a command shell to type things if you want to, you can do this in MS Windows too - it doesn't mean that you have to.

There are Linux distributions with accessible installers providing speech output, and there is a screenreader (Orca) for working with both Braille and speech for graphical applications.

You cannot install NVDA or other MS Windows applications under Linux, but you can't install them under Mac OSX either.  That doesn't mean a Mac is worse than Windows - it just means they're different from each other.

It doesn't mean you can't install Firefox - you just have to install the Linux or OSX version instead of the Windows version.  It does mean you cannot use NVDA, but you can use another screenreader instead (Orca for Linux, Voiceover for Mac OSX).

Linux is different.  Mac OSX is different.  Some people prefer them; it's a personal choice.

Please don't mislead people by suggesting that they are worse just because you can't install the same applications as you can on Windows.  You might just as well say that Windows is worse than Linux because it doesn't support all the Linux applications that are available.


Antony.

On Wednesday 23 May 2018 at 10:44:01, zahra wrote:


hello.
i wished to use linux,
but if it was exactly the same with windows!
i realy hate terminal,
i even cant use cmd on windows and prefer wizard and gui interface 
that i can have my selection, rather than memorizing hundreds of 
codes!
if i could install nvda and other softwares which i use on windows, in 
linux, and i could do installation of softwares and other usual tasks 
without terminal and command line, certainly i said goodbye to windows 
and migrate to linux.
but unfortunately,
i believe that linux is not user friendly and becomes not, at least 
for many years!

On 5/23/18, Brandon Cross <bcross3286@...> wrote:

I'm sorry, but if that's the impression you have, you are much mistaken.
This is not only advisable, it can be dangerous. Stop and think 
about it for a second. Why would they make an operating system where 
you had to type one command before any other command you type? 
Doesn't make sense, does it? Also, remember that you are 
authenticating each time you do this, even though it may be set up 
so that you don't need to use your password each and every time, 
which ever command you use with sudo gets elevated to root status. A 
little reading will tell you all you need to know. I don't like it 
when people spread information that could harm other people's 
machines or harm them in some way, accidentally is one thing, but if 
you just say oh its ok, you're being intentionally ignorant. Then, 
what happens if someone inexperienced comes along and sees this and 
tries it, maybe nothing, maybe they type sudo rm -rf * from the root directory, then bye bye machine.

--
I want to build a machine that will be proud of me.

- Danny Hillis, creator of The Connection Machine

                                                  Please reply to the list;
                                                        please *don't* CC me.





 



Re: About Linux

Brandon Cross <bcross3286@...>
 

it is inevitable, though there is a lot you can do with the GUI as others have rightly said.


Re: About Linux

Devin Prater
 

I don’t have issues with the terminal. I use Emacs for goodness sake, and love most console programs, but most users find the terminal complicated and obscure, and I can tell you that you will need it, especially as a visually impaired person.

On May 23, 2018, at 8:23 AM, JM Casey <crystallogic@...> wrote:

Well, unlike that other poster over there (:P), I never had any issue with using the terminal, although my only previous experience had been logging into a shell via Telnet from a Dos machine in the mid 90s. However I remember a lot of my time using the Linux box I had set up in 2008 was also spent reading man pages.
 
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Devin Prater
Sent: May 23, 2018 9:00 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] About Linux
 
You will always need the terminal for something. Something breaks? You’ll find guides with terminal instructions. Of course, some of it can be just copied and pasted, but most of it most be customized for your system, your files, your initialization scripts, and so on. I’m just trying to give the facts as they are, not say Linux is bad because it isn’t, but it does require that you know at least how to use the terminal, and what files you have, where they are, and an understanding of the structure of your file system.


On May 23, 2018, at 7:55 AM, JM Casey <crystallogic@...> wrote:
 
Good post. That said, I don't know how much things have changed, but when I was using a Linux box in 2008 or so, I had a hell of a battle with orca. Always crashing. And Gnome was the only desktop GUI environment it actually worked in. Someday I'd like to give it another go, as I really like Linux in theory -- just seemed to be spending more time trying to fix things than actually accomplishing stuff with the oS. 

-----Original Message-----
From: 
nvda@nvda.groups.io[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Antony Stone
Sent: May 23, 2018 4:58 AM
To: 
nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] About Linux

You do not have to use the command line on Linux unless you want to.

There are many distributions which provide a graphical environment from the default installation, and although you can open a command shell to type things if you want to, you can do this in MS Windows too - it doesn't mean that you have to.

There are Linux distributions with accessible installers providing speech output, and there is a screenreader (Orca) for working with both Braille and speech for graphical applications.

You cannot install NVDA or other MS Windows applications under Linux, but you can't install them under Mac OSX either.  That doesn't mean a Mac is worse than Windows - it just means they're different from each other.

It doesn't mean you can't install Firefox - you just have to install the Linux or OSX version instead of the Windows version.  It does mean you cannot use NVDA, but you can use another screenreader instead (Orca for Linux, Voiceover for Mac OSX).

Linux is different.  Mac OSX is different.  Some people prefer them; it's a personal choice.

Please don't mislead people by suggesting that they are worse just because you can't install the same applications as you can on Windows.  You might just as well say that Windows is worse than Linux because it doesn't support all the Linux applications that are available.


Antony.

On Wednesday 23 May 2018 at 10:44:01, zahra wrote:


hello.
i wished to use linux,
but if it was exactly the same with windows!
i realy hate terminal,
i even cant use cmd on windows and prefer wizard and gui interface 
that i can have my selection, rather than memorizing hundreds of 
codes!
if i could install nvda and other softwares which i use on windows, in 
linux, and i could do installation of softwares and other usual tasks 
without terminal and command line, certainly i said goodbye to windows 
and migrate to linux.
but unfortunately,
i believe that linux is not user friendly and becomes not, at least 
for many years!

On 5/23/18, Brandon Cross <bcross3286@...> wrote:

I'm sorry, but if that's the impression you have, you are much mistaken.
This is not only advisable, it can be dangerous. Stop and think 
about it for a second. Why would they make an operating system where 
you had to type one command before any other command you type? 
Doesn't make sense, does it? Also, remember that you are 
authenticating each time you do this, even though it may be set up 
so that you don't need to use your password each and every time, 
which ever command you use with sudo gets elevated to root status. A 
little reading will tell you all you need to know. I don't like it 
when people spread information that could harm other people's 
machines or harm them in some way, accidentally is one thing, but if 
you just say oh its ok, you're being intentionally ignorant. Then, 
what happens if someone inexperienced comes along and sees this and 
tries it, maybe nothing, maybe they type sudo rm -rf * from the root directory, then bye bye machine.

--
I want to build a machine that will be proud of me.

- Danny Hillis, creator of The Connection Machine

                                                  Please reply to the list;
                                                        please *don't* CC me.





 



Re: About Linux

Ervin, Glenn
 

Nothing wrong with all that, it just means Linux or any other OS is not for you.
Glenn

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of zahra
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 7:32 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] About Linux

i did not say linux is worse.
i told that i want the graphical user interface with all of my
applications on windows.
for linux,
even its not possible to find one installer file without need to
compiling the sourcecodes,
or using repository or online installer or command line or terminal!
i studied hundreds of links in english and achieved this result.
even i can download for example my favorite version of firefox,
i should compile it to a deb file to install it easily like windows!
i wish that someone make a linux according to my desire!
and i did not find any options except for windows because of these limitations!
i am not a computer engineer or code familiar to use current linux versions!
if in the future, someone makes a linux exactly in the same way that i
need and desire,
please, send email and inform me about this great revolution!

On 5/23/18, Antony Stone <antony.stone@nvda.open.source.it> wrote:
You do not have to use the command line on Linux unless you want to.

There are many distributions which provide a graphical environment from the

default installation, and although you can open a command shell to type
things
if you want to, you can do this in MS Windows too - it doesn't mean that you

have to.

There are Linux distributions with accessible installers providing speech
output, and there is a screenreader (Orca) for working with both Braille and

speech for graphical applications.

You cannot install NVDA or other MS Windows applications under Linux, but
you
can't install them under Mac OSX either. That doesn't mean a Mac is worse
than Windows - it just means they're different from each other.

It doesn't mean you can't install Firefox - you just have to install the
Linux
or OSX version instead of the Windows version. It does mean you cannot use

NVDA, but you can use another screenreader instead (Orca for Linux,
Voiceover
for Mac OSX).

Linux is different. Mac OSX is different. Some people prefer them; it's a

personal choice.

Please don't mislead people by suggesting that they are worse just because
you
can't install the same applications as you can on Windows. You might just
as
well say that Windows is worse than Linux because it doesn't support all the

Linux applications that are available.


Antony.

On Wednesday 23 May 2018 at 10:44:01, zahra wrote:

hello.
i wished to use linux,
but if it was exactly the same with windows!
i realy hate terminal,
i even cant use cmd on windows and prefer wizard and gui interface
that i can have my selection, rather than memorizing hundreds of
codes!
if i could install nvda and other softwares which i use on windows, in
linux, and i could do installation of softwares and other usual tasks
without terminal and command line,
certainly i said goodbye to windows and migrate to linux.
but unfortunately,
i believe that linux is not user friendly and becomes not, at least
for many years!

On 5/23/18, Brandon Cross <bcross3286@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm sorry, but if that's the impression you have, you are much
mistaken.
This is not only advisable, it can be dangerous. Stop and think about
it
for a second. Why would they make an operating system where you had to
type one command before any other command you type? Doesn't make sense,
does it? Also, remember that you are authenticating each time you do
this, even though it may be set up so that you don't need to use your
password each and every time, which ever command you use with sudo gets
elevated to root status. A little reading will tell you all you need to
know. I don't like it when people spread information that could harm
other people's machines or harm them in some way, accidentally is one
thing, but if you just say oh its ok, you're being intentionally
ignorant. Then, what happens if someone inexperienced comes along and
sees this and tries it, maybe nothing, maybe they type sudo rm -rf *
from the root directory, then bye bye machine.
--
I want to build a machine that will be proud of me.

- Danny Hillis, creator of The Connection Machine

Please reply to the
list;
please *don't* CC
me.




--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali


Re: Cloning drives

Ervin, Glenn
 

That is what got me into Linux, that is, the frustration of doing this in Windows.
Maybe there are better Windows options now, but 10 years ago I don't think was much without a big purchase.
Glenn

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 3:53 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Cloning drives

I agree, but of course the original query was for a windows user. I'm not
convinced anyone would want to run and install the Linux system and its
screenreader merely to clone a drive.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ervin, Glenn" <glenn.ervin@nebraska.gov>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2018 5:28 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Cloning drives


The talking WinPE has programs for this, but I usually do this in Linux,
since I think it does a better job.
Linux has a command-line tool built in for this, called DD.
Linux command-line is much like DOS.
If the drive you want to copy is called:
/dev/sda
And the drive you want to copy it to is
/dev/sdc
You would type:
Dd /dev/sda /dev/sdc
If you want to clone a partition into a single file, the command would be:
Dd /dev/sda dev/sdb/myfile.iso
You would not clone a drive onto itself, so you would have to direct it to
another drive that is why you might direct it to something like /dev/sdb in
that example.
But that is just an example of using the command-line in Linux, it works
much like DOS.
But I use the GUI for things like web browsing, and eMail and text editing
and manipulating files.
Glenn

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian's
Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2018 11:14 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Cloning drives

It is but the ones I've used drop into a kind of temporary dos version so
you hear nothing, even errors if you run it.
Some do allow the cloning script to be written in windows and then it runs
in its own Os as neither drive can have a running windows on it during the
process as there is a swap file and other files locked and hence they will
not be faithfully copied unless you exit windows.
I've not tried it lately but it would be nice to know what works for those
with no sight at all.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sarah k Alawami" <marrie12@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2018 4:36 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Cloning drives


Would acronis work for that? I'm actually not sure if that's available on
PC. Good luck.


On May 22, 2018 6:10:39 AM "juan gonzalez" <jgonzalezh614@hotmail.com>
wrote:

Good day all!
I am looking for software that works with NVDA to clone a hard disk to a
smaller SSD drive. Free would be preferred but if there isn't any than
any
works.


Re: What will be with Espeak NG?

Ervin, Glenn
 

This is good, as whenever I install it for people who are new to a screenreader, I have to apologize for eSpeak, even though it is totally intelligible to me.

It is not my synth of choice, but it works and I am happy to have it as a free option.

Glenn

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Quentin Christensen
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 3:46 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] What will be with Espeak NG?

 

Hi Marco,

 

Actually we don't develop eSpeak to begin with.  We use eSpeak NG which has a GitHub repository and is open source, just like NVDA: https://github.com/espeak-ng/espeak-ng

 

We are still including eSpeak NG with NVDA.  We are just changing the default synthesizer when you install it on Windows 10, to the Windows OneCore voices.  From talking with users, and importantly, with people who don't use NVDA (and why), we found that a lot of people "Like NVDA, but the voice is very robotic".  As much as we would encourage people to explore the settings and find a setup that works for them, the truth is, people, particularly when testing something new, will first try the default setup, and if something is too jarring (as eSpeak NG is for some users), they may stop using it and not come back, even though if they were using Windows 10, there are more human sounding voices available on their system.

 

So, for NVDA 2018.2, we are making Windows OneCore voice the default on Windows 10, but we will still bundle eSpeak with NVDA, and we know many advanced users will switch back to it, and that is fine.  Note if you already have NVDA installed and upgrade to NVDA 2018.2, it won't change what you have setup.

 

I hope that answers your question, but if you have any more questions, please don't hesitate to ask!

 

Kind regards

 

Quentin.

 

On Wed, May 23, 2018 at 5:57 PM, Marco Oros <marco.oros93@...> wrote:

I have heard, that default synthesizer will be Windows Onecore and not Espeak NG. I have a question.
NVDA team will stop implement new versions of Espeak? Or, why this thing were happened?
Thank You.
Marco Oros




 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Re: About Linux

Antony Stone
 

So long as you trust yourself never to make a mistake when you have admin /
root privilege on the machine, then by all means use your own computer in this
way.

However, there are good reasons why almost all Linux documentation referring
to the use of the root account or the su / sudo commands advises not to work
with this level of privilege on the machine for longer than necessary, simply
as a method of damage limitation.

A standard user can only damage their own files and not any part of the system.

The root user can damage everything.


Antony.

On Wednesday 23 May 2018 at 16:16:26, Ervin, Glenn wrote:

My Linux computers go nowhere outside the home, and I have an up-to-date
firewall in my up-to-date router, so I think unless one is in coffee shops
with it, you can remove all such things. I turn off the password at log-in
too.
Glenn


From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brandon
Cross Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 12:33 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SUSPECTED SPAM] Re: [nvda] About Linux

I'm sorry, but if that's the impression you have, you are much mistaken.
This is not only advisable, it can be dangerous. Stop and think about it
for a second. Why would they make an operating system where you had to
type one command before any other command you type? Doesn't make sense,
does it? Also, remember that you are authenticating each time you do this,
even though it may be set up so that you don't need to use your password
each and every time, which ever command you use with sudo gets elevated to
root status. A little reading will tell you all you need to know. I don't
like it when people spread information that could harm other people's
machines or harm them in some way, accidentally is one thing, but if you
just say oh its ok, you're being intentionally ignorant. Then, what
happens if someone inexperienced comes along and sees this and tries it,
maybe nothing, maybe they type sudo rm -rf * from the root directory, then
bye bye machine.
--
I'm not impossible, just highly implausible.

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.


Re: [SUSPECTED SPAM] Re: [nvda] About Linux

Ervin, Glenn
 

You will do Internet and eMail with the GUI in Linux.
If there was more command-line options in Windows, I would do that more too, but you can do almost everything in the GUI in Linux.
I choose to do some things in the CLI in Linux because it is available that way, not because that is the only way to do it.
For example, I think one can do the Chirp HAM radio software in the CLI in Linux, but it works so well in the GUI, I do it that way.
Same with eMail and Internet.
Glenn

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of zahra
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 3:44 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SUSPECTED SPAM] Re: [nvda] About Linux

hello.
i wished to use linux,
but if it was exactly the same with windows!
i realy hate terminal,
i even cant use cmd on windows and prefer wizard and gui interface
that i can have my selection, rather than memorizing hundreds of
codes!
if i could install nvda and other softwares which i use on windows, in linux,
and i could do installation of softwares and other usual tasks without
terminal and command line,
certainly i said goodbye to windows and migrate to linux.
but unfortunately,
i believe that linux is not user friendly and becomes not, at least
for many years!

On 5/23/18, Brandon Cross <bcross3286@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm sorry, but if that's the impression you have, you are much mistaken.
This is not only advisable, it can be dangerous. Stop and think about it
for a second. Why would they make an operating system where you had to type
one command before any other command you type? Doesn't make sense, does it?
Also, remember that you are authenticating each time you do this, even
though it may be set up so that you don't need to use your password each
and every time, which ever command you use with sudo gets elevated to root
status. A little reading will tell you all you need to know. I don't like
it when people spread information that could harm other people's machines
or harm them in some way, accidentally is one thing, but if you just say oh
its ok, you're being intentionally ignorant. Then, what happens if someone
inexperienced comes along and sees this and tries it, maybe nothing, maybe
they type sudo rm -rf * from the root directory, then bye bye machine.

--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali


Re: About Linux

Angelo Sonnesso
 

You can check out Vinux, a distribution customized for the visually impaired by the visually impaired.
http://vinuxproject.org/

73 N2DYN Angelo

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of JM Casey
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 8:55 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] About Linux

Good post. That said, I don't know how much things have changed, but when I was using a Linux box in 2008 or so, I had a hell of a battle with orca. Always crashing. And Gnome was the only desktop GUI environment it actually worked in. Someday I'd like to give it another go, as I really like Linux in theory -- just seemed to be spending more time trying to fix things than actually accomplishing stuff with the oS.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Antony Stone
Sent: May 23, 2018 4:58 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] About Linux

You do not have to use the command line on Linux unless you want to.

There are many distributions which provide a graphical environment from the default installation, and although you can open a command shell to type things if you want to, you can do this in MS Windows too - it doesn't mean that you have to.

There are Linux distributions with accessible installers providing speech output, and there is a screenreader (Orca) for working with both Braille and speech for graphical applications.

You cannot install NVDA or other MS Windows applications under Linux, but you can't install them under Mac OSX either. That doesn't mean a Mac is worse than Windows - it just means they're different from each other.

It doesn't mean you can't install Firefox - you just have to install the Linux or OSX version instead of the Windows version. It does mean you cannot use NVDA, but you can use another screenreader instead (Orca for Linux, Voiceover for Mac OSX).

Linux is different. Mac OSX is different. Some people prefer them; it's a personal choice.

Please don't mislead people by suggesting that they are worse just because you can't install the same applications as you can on Windows. You might just as well say that Windows is worse than Linux because it doesn't support all the Linux applications that are available.


Antony.

On Wednesday 23 May 2018 at 10:44:01, zahra wrote:

hello.
i wished to use linux,
but if it was exactly the same with windows!
i realy hate terminal,
i even cant use cmd on windows and prefer wizard and gui interface
that i can have my selection, rather than memorizing hundreds of
codes!
if i could install nvda and other softwares which i use on windows, in
linux, and i could do installation of softwares and other usual tasks
without terminal and command line, certainly i said goodbye to windows
and migrate to linux.
but unfortunately,
i believe that linux is not user friendly and becomes not, at least
for many years!

On 5/23/18, Brandon Cross <bcross3286@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm sorry, but if that's the impression you have, you are much mistaken.
This is not only advisable, it can be dangerous. Stop and think
about it for a second. Why would they make an operating system where
you had to type one command before any other command you type?
Doesn't make sense, does it? Also, remember that you are
authenticating each time you do this, even though it may be set up
so that you don't need to use your password each and every time,
which ever command you use with sudo gets elevated to root status. A
little reading will tell you all you need to know. I don't like it
when people spread information that could harm other people's
machines or harm them in some way, accidentally is one thing, but if
you just say oh its ok, you're being intentionally ignorant. Then,
what happens if someone inexperienced comes along and sees this and
tries it, maybe nothing, maybe they type sudo rm -rf * from the root directory, then bye bye machine.
--
I want to build a machine that will be proud of me.

- Danny Hillis, creator of The Connection Machine

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.


Re: [SUSPECTED SPAM] Re: [nvda] About Linux

Ervin, Glenn
 

My Linux computers go nowhere outside the home, and I have an up-to-date firewall in my up-to-date router, so I think unless one is in coffee shops with it, you can remove all such things.

I turn off the password at log-in too.

Glenn

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brandon Cross
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 12:33 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SUSPECTED SPAM] Re: [nvda] About Linux

 

I'm sorry, but if that's the impression you have, you are much mistaken. This is not only advisable, it can be dangerous. Stop and think about it for a second. Why would they make an operating system where you had to type one command before any other command you type? Doesn't make sense, does it? Also, remember that you are authenticating each time you do this, even though it may be set up so that you don't need to use your password each and every time, which ever command you use with sudo gets elevated to root status. A little reading will tell you all you need to know. I don't like it when people spread information that could harm other people's machines or harm them in some way, accidentally is one thing, but if you just say oh its ok, you're being intentionally ignorant. Then, what happens if someone inexperienced comes along and sees this and tries it, maybe nothing, maybe they type sudo rm -rf * from the root directory, then bye bye machine.


Re: firefox issue

Abbie Taylor <abbietaylor945@...>
 

That's it, and whenever I press Alt plus R, the message pops up again. I've given up on having Firefox remember passwords and will just have to rely on my old brain.


On 5/22/2018 9:09 PM, Richard Wells wrote:

I believe it is ALT+R.


On 5/22/2018 8:23 PM, Abbie Taylor wrote:

There is a short-cut key to have Firefox remember a password, but I've forgotten what it is at the moment because I now just escape out of those dialog boxes. Thanks.

Abbie Johnson Taylor, Author http://abbiescorner.wordpress.com
http://www.abbiejohnsontaylor.com
abbietaylor945@...
Order my new memoir at http://www.abbiejohnsontaylor.com/memoir.htm

On May 22, 2018 6:59 PM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
I'll tell you how you may try to do this which may help you in this and in other similar situations where messages come up.  also, there may be a short cut command to move to the message, but I don't know it.
 
It doesn't remember it because you aren't telling it to in the menu or activating the button.  When you hear the message, move to the address bar with control l.  the message is probably somewhere around it.  Try tabbing a few times and see if you find something relevant.  If you don't, return to the address bar again with control l and shift tab a few times to see if you find anything relevant. 
 
However, before you do any of that at all, I'm not sure having browsers remember passwords is a good idea.  Others with more technical knowledge will, I hope, comment, but I've seen one or more computer advisors recommend against it as a security risk.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2018 7:36 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] firefox issue

I think it's Firefox. Nowadays, whenever I try to have it remember a particular password, the dialog asking me if I want Firefox to do this keeps coming up, and I keep pressing the button to save the password, and it comes up again. This happens for a while, and then when I just escape out of that dialog, I lose speech altogether and have to re-start Firefox before it will work properly. By the way, it never does remember the password.

Abbie Johnson Taylor, Author http://abbiescorner.wordpress.com
http://www.abbiejohnsontaylor.com
abbietaylor945@...
Order my new memoir at http://www.abbiejohnsontaylor.com/memoir.htm

On May 22, 2018 2:24 PM, The Wolf <hank.smith966@...> wrote:
>
> Hello
> can any one tell me if firefox freezes when you go to add a bookmark?
> when ever I  try to do that I loose speech for about 5 seconds
> am trying to find out if it is me or if it is firefox
> thanks
> Hank
> --
> check out my song on youtube
> https://youtu.be/YeWgx2LRu7Y
>
>
>

>






Re: What will be with Espeak NG?

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Espeak, but really you do need to experiment with the varient voices. So many people say its awful then when they hear my machine do not believe its still espeak.
I just wonder if anyone actually tries playing with the options in software any more.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ann Byrne" <annakb@sbcglobal.net>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 2:28 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] What will be with Espeak NG?


What is the default if using windows 7?

At 03:46 AM 5/23/2018, you wrote:
Hi Marco,

Actually we don't develop eSpeak to begin with. We use eSpeak NG which has a GitHub repository and is open source, just like NVDA: <https://github.com/espeak-ng/espeak-ng>https://github.com/espeak-ng/espeak-ng

We are still including eSpeak NG with NVDA. We are just changing the default synthesizer when you install it on Windows 10, to the Windows OneCore voices. From talking with users, and importantly, with people who don't use NVDA (and why), we found that a lot of people "Like NVDA, but the voice is very robotic". As much as we would encourage people to explore the settings and find a setup that works for them, the truth is, people, particularly when testing something new, will first try the default setup, and if something is too jarring (as eSpeak NG is for some users), they may stop using it and not come back, even though if they were using Windows 10, there are more human sounding voices available on their system.

So, for NVDA 2018.2, we are making Windows OneCore voice the default on Windows 10, but we will still bundle eSpeak with NVDA, and we know many advanced users will switch back to it, and that is fine. Note if you already have NVDA installed and upgrade to NVDA 2018.2, it won't change what you have setup.

I hope that answers your question, but if you have any more questions, please don't hesitate to ask!

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Wed, May 23, 2018 at 5:57 PM, Marco Oros <<mailto:marco.oros93@gmail.com>marco.oros93@gmail.com> wrote:
I have heard, that default synthesizer will be Windows Onecore and not Espeak NG. I have a question.
NVDA team will stop implement new versions of Espeak? Or, why this thing were happened?
Thank You.
Marco Oros






--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: <http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/>http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

<http://www.nvaccess.org/>www.nvaccess.orgÂ
Facebook:Â <http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess>http://www.facebook.com/NVAccessÂ
Twitter: @NVAccessÂ


Re: Messenger Site and NVDA

Abbie Taylor <abbietaylor945@...>
 

I hope you're right, Richard. Thanks.

On 5/22/2018 9:07 PM, Richard Wells wrote:
Abbie: These may have been just delayed messages. I still believe that changing your password fixed it.


On 5/22/2018 6:43 PM, Abbie Taylor wrote:
I already changed my Facebook password yesterday afternoon, but I don't think that did it for Messenger because some friends told me they received messages this morning.

Abbie Johnson Taylor, Author http://abbiescorner.wordpress.com
http://www.abbiejohnsontaylor.com
abbietaylor945@gmail.com
Order my new memoir at http://www.abbiejohnsontaylor.com/memoir.htm

On May 22, 2018 5:33 PM, Ashley Coleman <amc05111@gmail.com> wrote:
You should be able to change your Facebook password, and that will change it for Messenger.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Abbie Taylor
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2018 19:32
To: Jackie <abletec@gmail.com>
Cc: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Messenger Site and NVDA

Yes I do, and I realize now they both go together. I may have to delete the Facebook account if I can't change my Messenger password.

Abbie Johnson Taylor, Author http://abbiescorner.wordpress.com http://www.abbiejohnsontaylor.com abbietaylor945@gmail.com Order my new memoir at http://www.abbiejohnsontaylor.com/memoir.htm

On May 22, 2018 4:24 PM, Jackie <abletec@gmail.com> wrote:
Abbie, messenger is now a part of facebook. So do you have a facebook account?

On 5/22/18, Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@gmail.com> wrote:
Hmmm you should be able to change the password.

To be honest, when ms/ google says you have been hacked, just like
windows flagging things,  I don't know if it has or not.

I had the same issue with google sync, an update and reload had to be done.

The program crashed in the middle of signup.

Google then said I was hacked and needed to change my password.

It will also do that if you go to another location then signin from
your home location, sometimes it puts up a security message sometimes not.

Either you don't get it or respond fast enough and boom.

A friend had this with an ms account.

Her system lost power in the middle of a feature windows update.

Nothing worked, eventually she had to reformat her pc, and windows
mobile phone, change her passwords then create another account for
it to work.

Some of that was her isp doing strange things but everything got out
of sync, and then things got confused.

I had the same situation with a business system I was working on,
the encripted drive crashed.

Some backups were made but not everything.

The system was reinstalled on a new box, but again, security was
just crazy.

Eventually with some professional recovery technitions the drives
were recovered, the accounts were updated, but it envolved a lot of
mucking about.

I am more inclined to think if something says your account is hacked
that your account is not in fact compromised its just windows or
your previder telling you you are doing something outside their
strict guidelines.




On 5/23/2018 8:42 AM, Abbie Taylor wrote:
Because my messenger account has been hacked, I'm trying to either
delete the account or change the password, but I can't seem to do
this on the messenger site so far with NVDA.
https://www.messenger.comFor some reason, it's not reading the
settings dialog box. I've tried some of the mouse commands but to no avail. Does anyone have any ideas?



--
Remember! Friends Help Friends Be Cybersafe Jackie McBride Helping
Cybercrime Victims 1 Person at a Time https://brighter-vision.com






--
Abbie Johnson Taylor, Author http://abbiescorner.wordpress.com http://www.abbiejohnsontaylor.com abbietaylor945@gmail.com Order my new memoir at http://www.abbiejohnsontaylor.com/memoir.htm


Re: About Linux

Brandon Cross <bcross3286@...>
 

Yes, this being true, Linux is not your friendly operating system, but it never was designed to be. They have made it more so in th the past 10 years or so, but its still not. What it is though is fast, efficient, and rock solid reliable. If you need those qualities in an operating system, and you don't mind the learning process, then Linux might be for you. I deleted 5 and a half gigs off my server the other day, you want to know how long that took? About as much time as it would take to blink twice. And yes, it was still doing work in the background after that, but even that didn't take long, and immediately, df -h shows the new size of the disk. When I move files, it takes no time at all because I'm not physically moving them on the disk, they always stay in the same place, I'm just moving pointers around.


Re: What will be with Espeak NG?

Ann Byrne
 

What is the default if using windows 7?

At 03:46 AM 5/23/2018, you wrote:
Hi Marco,

Actually we don't develop eSpeak to begin with. We use eSpeak NG which has a GitHub repository and is open source, just like NVDA: <https://github.com/espeak-ng/espeak-ng>https://github.com/espeak-ng/espeak-ng

We are still including eSpeak NG with NVDA. We are just changing the default synthesizer when you install it on Windows 10, to the Windows OneCore voices. From talking with users, and importantly, with people who don't use NVDA (and why), we found that a lot of people "Like NVDA, but the voice is very robotic". As much as we would encourage people to explore the settings and find a setup that works for them, the truth is, people, particularly when testing something new, will first try the default setup, and if something is too jarring (as eSpeak NG is for some users), they may stop using it and not come back, even though if they were using Windows 10, there are more human sounding voices available on their system.

So, for NVDA 2018.2, we are making Windows OneCore voice the default on Windows 10, but we will still bundle eSpeak with NVDA, and we know many advanced users will switch back to it, and that is fine. Note if you already have NVDA installed and upgrade to NVDA 2018.2, it won't change what you have setup.

I hope that answers your question, but if you have any more questions, please don't hesitate to ask!

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Wed, May 23, 2018 at 5:57 PM, Marco Oros <<mailto:marco.oros93@gmail.com>marco.oros93@gmail.com> wrote:
I have heard, that default synthesizer will be Windows Onecore and not Espeak NG. I have a question.
NVDA team will stop implement new versions of Espeak? Or, why this thing were happened?
Thank You.
Marco Oros






--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: <http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/>http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

<http://www.nvaccess.org/>www.nvaccess.orgÂ
Facebook:Â <http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess>http://www.facebook.com/NVAccessÂ
Twitter: @NVAccessÂ


Re: About Linux

JM Casey <crystallogic@...>
 

Well, unlike that other poster over there (:P), I never had any issue with using the terminal, although my only previous experience had been logging into a shell via Telnet from a Dos machine in the mid 90s. However I remember a lot of my time using the Linux box I had set up in 2008 was also spent reading man pages.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Devin Prater
Sent: May 23, 2018 9:00 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] About Linux

 

You will always need the terminal for something. Something breaks? You’ll find guides with terminal instructions. Of course, some of it can be just copied and pasted, but most of it most be customized for your system, your files, your initialization scripts, and so on. I’m just trying to give the facts as they are, not say Linux is bad because it isn’t, but it does require that you know at least how to use the terminal, and what files you have, where they are, and an understanding of the structure of your file system.



On May 23, 2018, at 7:55 AM, JM Casey <crystallogic@...> wrote:

 

Good post. That said, I don't know how much things have changed, but when I was using a Linux box in 2008 or so, I had a hell of a battle with orca. Always crashing. And Gnome was the only desktop GUI environment it actually worked in. Someday I'd like to give it another go, as I really like Linux in theory -- just seemed to be spending more time trying to fix things than actually accomplishing stuff with the oS. 

-----Original Message-----
From: 
nvda@nvda.groups.io[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Antony Stone
Sent: May 23, 2018 4:58 AM
To: 
nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] About Linux

You do not have to use the command line on Linux unless you want to.

There are many distributions which provide a graphical environment from the default installation, and although you can open a command shell to type things if you want to, you can do this in MS Windows too - it doesn't mean that you have to.

There are Linux distributions with accessible installers providing speech output, and there is a screenreader (Orca) for working with both Braille and speech for graphical applications.

You cannot install NVDA or other MS Windows applications under Linux, but you can't install them under Mac OSX either.  That doesn't mean a Mac is worse than Windows - it just means they're different from each other.

It doesn't mean you can't install Firefox - you just have to install the Linux or OSX version instead of the Windows version.  It does mean you cannot use NVDA, but you can use another screenreader instead (Orca for Linux, Voiceover for Mac OSX).

Linux is different.  Mac OSX is different.  Some people prefer them; it's a personal choice.

Please don't mislead people by suggesting that they are worse just because you can't install the same applications as you can on Windows.  You might just as well say that Windows is worse than Linux because it doesn't support all the Linux applications that are available.


Antony.

On Wednesday 23 May 2018 at 10:44:01, zahra wrote:


hello.
i wished to use linux,
but if it was exactly the same with windows!
i realy hate terminal,
i even cant use cmd on windows and prefer wizard and gui interface 
that i can have my selection, rather than memorizing hundreds of 
codes!
if i could install nvda and other softwares which i use on windows, in 
linux, and i could do installation of softwares and other usual tasks 
without terminal and command line, certainly i said goodbye to windows 
and migrate to linux.
but unfortunately,
i believe that linux is not user friendly and becomes not, at least 
for many years!

On 5/23/18, Brandon Cross <bcross3286@...> wrote:

I'm sorry, but if that's the impression you have, you are much mistaken.
This is not only advisable, it can be dangerous. Stop and think 
about it for a second. Why would they make an operating system where 
you had to type one command before any other command you type? 
Doesn't make sense, does it? Also, remember that you are 
authenticating each time you do this, even though it may be set up 
so that you don't need to use your password each and every time, 
which ever command you use with sudo gets elevated to root status. A 
little reading will tell you all you need to know. I don't like it 
when people spread information that could harm other people's 
machines or harm them in some way, accidentally is one thing, but if 
you just say oh its ok, you're being intentionally ignorant. Then, 
what happens if someone inexperienced comes along and sees this and 
tries it, maybe nothing, maybe they type sudo rm -rf * from the root directory, then bye bye machine.


--
I want to build a machine that will be proud of me.

- Danny Hillis, creator of The Connection Machine

                                                  Please reply to the list;
                                                        please *don't* CC me.





 


Re: About Linux

Devin Prater
 

You will always need the terminal for something. Something breaks? You’ll find guides with terminal instructions. Of course, some of it can be just copied and pasted, but most of it most be customized for your system, your files, your initialization scripts, and so on. I’m just trying to give the facts as they are, not say Linux is bad because it isn’t, but it does require that you know at least how to use the terminal, and what files you have, where they are, and an understanding of the structure of your file system.

On May 23, 2018, at 7:55 AM, JM Casey <crystallogic@...> wrote:

Good post. That said, I don't know how much things have changed, but when I was using a Linux box in 2008 or so, I had a hell of a battle with orca. Always crashing. And Gnome was the only desktop GUI environment it actually worked in. Someday I'd like to give it another go, as I really like Linux in theory -- just seemed to be spending more time trying to fix things than actually accomplishing stuff with the oS. 

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Antony Stone
Sent: May 23, 2018 4:58 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] About Linux

You do not have to use the command line on Linux unless you want to.

There are many distributions which provide a graphical environment from the default installation, and although you can open a command shell to type things if you want to, you can do this in MS Windows too - it doesn't mean that you have to.

There are Linux distributions with accessible installers providing speech output, and there is a screenreader (Orca) for working with both Braille and speech for graphical applications.

You cannot install NVDA or other MS Windows applications under Linux, but you can't install them under Mac OSX either.  That doesn't mean a Mac is worse than Windows - it just means they're different from each other.

It doesn't mean you can't install Firefox - you just have to install the Linux or OSX version instead of the Windows version.  It does mean you cannot use NVDA, but you can use another screenreader instead (Orca for Linux, Voiceover for Mac OSX).

Linux is different.  Mac OSX is different.  Some people prefer them; it's a personal choice.

Please don't mislead people by suggesting that they are worse just because you can't install the same applications as you can on Windows.  You might just as well say that Windows is worse than Linux because it doesn't support all the Linux applications that are available.


Antony.

On Wednesday 23 May 2018 at 10:44:01, zahra wrote:

hello.
i wished to use linux,
but if it was exactly the same with windows!
i realy hate terminal,
i even cant use cmd on windows and prefer wizard and gui interface 
that i can have my selection, rather than memorizing hundreds of 
codes!
if i could install nvda and other softwares which i use on windows, in 
linux, and i could do installation of softwares and other usual tasks 
without terminal and command line, certainly i said goodbye to windows 
and migrate to linux.
but unfortunately,
i believe that linux is not user friendly and becomes not, at least 
for many years!

On 5/23/18, Brandon Cross <bcross3286@...> wrote:
I'm sorry, but if that's the impression you have, you are much mistaken.
This is not only advisable, it can be dangerous. Stop and think 
about it for a second. Why would they make an operating system where 
you had to type one command before any other command you type? 
Doesn't make sense, does it? Also, remember that you are 
authenticating each time you do this, even though it may be set up 
so that you don't need to use your password each and every time, 
which ever command you use with sudo gets elevated to root status. A 
little reading will tell you all you need to know. I don't like it 
when people spread information that could harm other people's 
machines or harm them in some way, accidentally is one thing, but if 
you just say oh its ok, you're being intentionally ignorant. Then, 
what happens if someone inexperienced comes along and sees this and 
tries it, maybe nothing, maybe they type sudo rm -rf * from the root directory, then bye bye machine.

--
I want to build a machine that will be proud of me.

- Danny Hillis, creator of The Connection Machine

                                                  Please reply to the list;
                                                        please *don't* CC me.






Re: About Linux

JM Casey <crystallogic@...>
 

Good post. That said, I don't know how much things have changed, but when I was using a Linux box in 2008 or so, I had a hell of a battle with orca. Always crashing. And Gnome was the only desktop GUI environment it actually worked in. Someday I'd like to give it another go, as I really like Linux in theory -- just seemed to be spending more time trying to fix things than actually accomplishing stuff with the oS.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Antony Stone
Sent: May 23, 2018 4:58 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] About Linux

You do not have to use the command line on Linux unless you want to.

There are many distributions which provide a graphical environment from the default installation, and although you can open a command shell to type things if you want to, you can do this in MS Windows too - it doesn't mean that you have to.

There are Linux distributions with accessible installers providing speech output, and there is a screenreader (Orca) for working with both Braille and speech for graphical applications.

You cannot install NVDA or other MS Windows applications under Linux, but you can't install them under Mac OSX either. That doesn't mean a Mac is worse than Windows - it just means they're different from each other.

It doesn't mean you can't install Firefox - you just have to install the Linux or OSX version instead of the Windows version. It does mean you cannot use NVDA, but you can use another screenreader instead (Orca for Linux, Voiceover for Mac OSX).

Linux is different. Mac OSX is different. Some people prefer them; it's a personal choice.

Please don't mislead people by suggesting that they are worse just because you can't install the same applications as you can on Windows. You might just as well say that Windows is worse than Linux because it doesn't support all the Linux applications that are available.


Antony.

On Wednesday 23 May 2018 at 10:44:01, zahra wrote:

hello.
i wished to use linux,
but if it was exactly the same with windows!
i realy hate terminal,
i even cant use cmd on windows and prefer wizard and gui interface
that i can have my selection, rather than memorizing hundreds of
codes!
if i could install nvda and other softwares which i use on windows, in
linux, and i could do installation of softwares and other usual tasks
without terminal and command line, certainly i said goodbye to windows
and migrate to linux.
but unfortunately,
i believe that linux is not user friendly and becomes not, at least
for many years!

On 5/23/18, Brandon Cross <bcross3286@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm sorry, but if that's the impression you have, you are much mistaken.
This is not only advisable, it can be dangerous. Stop and think
about it for a second. Why would they make an operating system where
you had to type one command before any other command you type?
Doesn't make sense, does it? Also, remember that you are
authenticating each time you do this, even though it may be set up
so that you don't need to use your password each and every time,
which ever command you use with sudo gets elevated to root status. A
little reading will tell you all you need to know. I don't like it
when people spread information that could harm other people's
machines or harm them in some way, accidentally is one thing, but if
you just say oh its ok, you're being intentionally ignorant. Then,
what happens if someone inexperienced comes along and sees this and
tries it, maybe nothing, maybe they type sudo rm -rf * from the root directory, then bye bye machine.
--
I want to build a machine that will be proud of me.

- Danny Hillis, creator of The Connection Machine

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.


Re: About Linux

 

i did not say linux is worse.
i told that i want the graphical user interface with all of my
applications on windows.
for linux,
even its not possible to find one installer file without need to
compiling the sourcecodes,
or using repository or online installer or command line or terminal!
i studied hundreds of links in english and achieved this result.
even i can download for example my favorite version of firefox,
i should compile it to a deb file to install it easily like windows!
i wish that someone make a linux according to my desire!
and i did not find any options except for windows because of these limitations!
i am not a computer engineer or code familiar to use current linux versions!
if in the future, someone makes a linux exactly in the same way that i
need and desire,
please, send email and inform me about this great revolution!

On 5/23/18, Antony Stone <antony.stone@nvda.open.source.it> wrote:
You do not have to use the command line on Linux unless you want to.

There are many distributions which provide a graphical environment from the

default installation, and although you can open a command shell to type
things
if you want to, you can do this in MS Windows too - it doesn't mean that you

have to.

There are Linux distributions with accessible installers providing speech
output, and there is a screenreader (Orca) for working with both Braille and

speech for graphical applications.

You cannot install NVDA or other MS Windows applications under Linux, but
you
can't install them under Mac OSX either. That doesn't mean a Mac is worse
than Windows - it just means they're different from each other.

It doesn't mean you can't install Firefox - you just have to install the
Linux
or OSX version instead of the Windows version. It does mean you cannot use

NVDA, but you can use another screenreader instead (Orca for Linux,
Voiceover
for Mac OSX).

Linux is different. Mac OSX is different. Some people prefer them; it's a

personal choice.

Please don't mislead people by suggesting that they are worse just because
you
can't install the same applications as you can on Windows. You might just
as
well say that Windows is worse than Linux because it doesn't support all the

Linux applications that are available.


Antony.

On Wednesday 23 May 2018 at 10:44:01, zahra wrote:

hello.
i wished to use linux,
but if it was exactly the same with windows!
i realy hate terminal,
i even cant use cmd on windows and prefer wizard and gui interface
that i can have my selection, rather than memorizing hundreds of
codes!
if i could install nvda and other softwares which i use on windows, in
linux, and i could do installation of softwares and other usual tasks
without terminal and command line,
certainly i said goodbye to windows and migrate to linux.
but unfortunately,
i believe that linux is not user friendly and becomes not, at least
for many years!

On 5/23/18, Brandon Cross <bcross3286@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm sorry, but if that's the impression you have, you are much
mistaken.
This is not only advisable, it can be dangerous. Stop and think about
it
for a second. Why would they make an operating system where you had to
type one command before any other command you type? Doesn't make sense,
does it? Also, remember that you are authenticating each time you do
this, even though it may be set up so that you don't need to use your
password each and every time, which ever command you use with sudo gets
elevated to root status. A little reading will tell you all you need to
know. I don't like it when people spread information that could harm
other people's machines or harm them in some way, accidentally is one
thing, but if you just say oh its ok, you're being intentionally
ignorant. Then, what happens if someone inexperienced comes along and
sees this and tries it, maybe nothing, maybe they type sudo rm -rf *
from the root directory, then bye bye machine.
--
I want to build a machine that will be proud of me.

- Danny Hillis, creator of The Connection Machine

Please reply to the
list;
please *don't* CC
me.



--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali