Date   

FW: [win10] For Version 1803+NVDA users: if you need to enter a new product key and you can't enter it, restart NVDA

 

Hi,

The below advisory is considered a serious regression. I’ll come back once I obtain a short link to the feedback item.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io <win10@win10.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Saturday, June 9, 2018 4:36 PM
To: win10@groups.io
Subject: [win10] For Version 1803+NVDA users: if you need to enter a new product key and you can't enter it, restart NVDA #ADVISORY #WinTen1803 #NVDASR

 

Hi,

 

The following was confirmed by at least three people and affects Version 1803+NVDA combination at the moment:

 

Issue: when trying to change product keys, NVDA does not respond when you try to tab through the product key entry screen in Version 1803.

 

Steps to reproduce:

 

  1. Open Settings.
  2. Go to Update and Security/Activation.
  3. Select “Change product key” link.

 

Expected: you can tab through this screen.

Actual: nothing.

Workaround: restart NVDA right then. After that, you’ll hear NVDA respond as you tab through product key entry screen.

 

Details:

 

  • Windows 10 release affected: Version 1803 (build 17134) only
  • Screen reader affected: NVDA.
  • Reproducible: yes.
  • Resolved in Insider Preview builds: yes.

 

This is a rather serious regression and I’m about to file a feedback about this – once it is filed, I’ll share the short link so folks who can access Feedback Hub and upvote this can do so.

 

Cheers,

Joseph


Re: accessible money

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

Hi, Brian,


I too wish we had accessible money. One time when the guy from Buy Right Pharmacy came to deliver a medication for me, I accidentally handed him a 5-dollar bill thinking it was a one-dollar bill. It's true that not everybody has a smart phone. I can't even afford one because they're so expensive.


Rosemarie




On 6/9/2018 4:04 PM, brian wrote:

    Lets not forget that not everyone has a smart phone and not everyone has a credit card or a debit card because they don't have a bank account.  They are just defying the judgment against them they are just lazy and they are hoping that the total cashless society will come quick enough so they don't have to make our money accessable.  The Usa is the only country that does not have accessable money how sad.  We have to depend on sighted people to tell us what our money is and trust them to tell us the truth.  This does not make me proud to be an american.  our goverment is telling us loud and clear that they don't care about our needs and we are American citizens what a shame.  I hope that those of you who live in countries and do have accessable curency are most greatful and thankful for the gift of financial independence.  We Americans would love to have this but who knows if we will ever have it.  Our paper money just all feels the same.  a hundred dollar bills feels like a one dallar bill.  I do wish that we had the kind of money that Canada has they have done it right so if they can do it then so can the Usa.  We have been provided with money readers by nls as a sulution but try to use this device at the check out counter and see what happens you will be holding up the line.  this is a very bad sulution to the problem of inaccessable curency.  It does not matter if you fold your bills in different ways or you have a billfold with 4 compartments as I have you first have to know what the bills are.  If you get in a hury you could miss fold the bill or put it in the wrong compartment I have done this.  We need to be able to identify our paper curency quickly and acuratly.

Brian Sackrider


On 6/8/2018 11:37 PM, Holger Fiallo wrote:
Do we need it? Now that we have apps that can tell us what is what?  Just asking.
 
From: Andy
Sent: Friday, June 8, 2018 10:27 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] accessible money
 
In 2008 the Federal courts ruled that the U. S. Treasury Dept. had to make currency accessible. They have diddled around for years, with study after study, and still no accessible money. They just don't want to do it, and are hoping that people will use credit and devit cards, etc.
Andy
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Jaffar Sidek
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2018 8:16 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] accessible money
 

Hi.  I am in a rather unique position because i get to experience both sides of money, accessible and inaccessible.  Here in Singapore, we have currency notes of different sizes and made of different materials.  $2, $5 and $10 are of different sizes and are made of plastic, $2 being the smallest and $10 being the biggest size of this sub group.  Then there

is the group of $50, $100, $500 and $1000 currency notes.  These are made of tough paper, again of different sizes.  It is easy to tell the diference between one denomination from the other once you get use to it.  On the other hand, I am married to a Filipina, and The Philippines Peso notes are all of the same size, no matter which currency, so i need guidance on that score when I am back in the philippines with wife and family.  Cheers!
On 6/9/2018 11:03 AM, Gene wrote:
It isn't reasonable to ask that switching to coins be done. 
 
I'll use American denominations in examples since I don't know your denominations.  Who is going to be willing to carry nothing but coins?  If I pay for something with a ten dollar coin, I'm not going to want to get four coins for dollars and two quarters, a dime and a nickel back.  If I pay for something with a ten dollar coin and I'm owed eight dollars and twenty cents, I am not going to want to receive a five dollar coin, three one dollar coins and two dimes.  People aren't going to walk around with lots of heavy coins jingling in their pockets and wearing out the material in their clothes. 
 
and think of all the different coins you would have to learn.  The penny, nickel, dime, quarter, dollar, five dollar, ten, twenty, fifty, assuming you never have a higher denomination. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Ron Canazzi
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2018 8:05 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] accessible money
 

Hi Kerryn,

 

If you can convince the powers that be in Trinidad to switch to all coinage rather than paper money, that would be the ideal thing to do.  Most blind people here in the United States have no difficulty with coinage.  The pennies, nickels, dimes and quarters are all differently rimmed and of different sizes and weights.  In the United States, we like our paper money.  There was great resistance to any change for large denominations than quarters.  However in a smaller country like Trinidad, you might have less resistance.  Good luck.

 


On 6/8/2018 8:29 PM, Kerryn Gunness via Groups.Io wrote:
hi
we in trinidad would like to make our money accessible to our blind or visually  impaired persons
what guidelines we should work with as to approach the powers that be, in our meeting on tuesday 12th june, in having this done, in terms of technology, tack tile immages etc
thanks
 

-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"




Re: accessible money

Antony Stone
 

I think it is an overstatement to say that "the USA is the only country that
does not have accessible money".

I agree that not everyone has a smart phone, but how is it possible to live
these days (assuming you have an income, whether it be from a job or from
benefits, or both, and assuming you have a home, which you have to pay for,
either in rent or a mortgage) without a bank account?


Antony.

On Sunday 10 June 2018 at 01:04:29, brian wrote:

Lets not forget that not everyone has a smart phone and not
everyone has a credit card or a debit card because they don't have a
bank account. They are just defying the judgment against them they are
just lazy and they are hoping that the total cashless society will come
quick enough so they don't have to make our money accessable. The Usa
is the only country that does not have accessable money how sad. We
have to depend on sighted people to tell us what our money is and trust
them to tell us the truth. This does not make me proud to be an
american. our goverment is telling us loud and clear that they don't
care about our needs and we are American citizens what a shame. I hope
that those of you who live in countries and do have accessable curency
are most greatful and thankful for the gift of financial independence.
We Americans would love to have this but who knows if we will ever have
it. Our paper money just all feels the same. a hundred dollar bills
feels like a one dallar bill. I do wish that we had the kind of money
that Canada has they have done it right so if they can do it then so can
the Usa. We have been provided with money readers by nls as a sulution
but try to use this device at the check out counter and see what happens
you will be holding up the line. this is a very bad sulution to the
problem of inaccessable curency. It does not matter if you fold your
bills in different ways or you have a billfold with 4 compartments as I
have you first have to know what the bills are. If you get in a hury
you could miss fold the bill or put it in the wrong compartment I have
done this. We need to be able to identify our paper curency quickly and
acuratly.

Brian Sackrider
--
"Hi, I've found a fault with the English language and I need an entomologist."
"I think you mean an etymologist."
"No. It's a bug, not a feature."

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.


Re: accessible money

brian <sackriderbrian45@...>
 

    Lets not forget that not everyone has a smart phone and not everyone has a credit card or a debit card because they don't have a bank account.  They are just defying the judgment against them they are just lazy and they are hoping that the total cashless society will come quick enough so they don't have to make our money accessable.  The Usa is the only country that does not have accessable money how sad.  We have to depend on sighted people to tell us what our money is and trust them to tell us the truth.  This does not make me proud to be an american.  our goverment is telling us loud and clear that they don't care about our needs and we are American citizens what a shame.  I hope that those of you who live in countries and do have accessable curency are most greatful and thankful for the gift of financial independence.  We Americans would love to have this but who knows if we will ever have it.  Our paper money just all feels the same.  a hundred dollar bills feels like a one dallar bill.  I do wish that we had the kind of money that Canada has they have done it right so if they can do it then so can the Usa.  We have been provided with money readers by nls as a sulution but try to use this device at the check out counter and see what happens you will be holding up the line.  this is a very bad sulution to the problem of inaccessable curency.  It does not matter if you fold your bills in different ways or you have a billfold with 4 compartments as I have you first have to know what the bills are.  If you get in a hury you could miss fold the bill or put it in the wrong compartment I have done this.  We need to be able to identify our paper curency quickly and acuratly.

Brian Sackrider


On 6/8/2018 11:37 PM, Holger Fiallo wrote:
Do we need it? Now that we have apps that can tell us what is what?  Just asking.
 
From: Andy
Sent: Friday, June 8, 2018 10:27 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] accessible money
 
In 2008 the Federal courts ruled that the U. S. Treasury Dept. had to make currency accessible. They have diddled around for years, with study after study, and still no accessible money. They just don't want to do it, and are hoping that people will use credit and devit cards, etc.
Andy
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Jaffar Sidek
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2018 8:16 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] accessible money
 

Hi.  I am in a rather unique position because i get to experience both sides of money, accessible and inaccessible.  Here in Singapore, we have currency notes of different sizes and made of different materials.  $2, $5 and $10 are of different sizes and are made of plastic, $2 being the smallest and $10 being the biggest size of this sub group.  Then there

is the group of $50, $100, $500 and $1000 currency notes.  These are made of tough paper, again of different sizes.  It is easy to tell the diference between one denomination from the other once you get use to it.  On the other hand, I am married to a Filipina, and The Philippines Peso notes are all of the same size, no matter which currency, so i need guidance on that score when I am back in the philippines with wife and family.  Cheers!
On 6/9/2018 11:03 AM, Gene wrote:
It isn't reasonable to ask that switching to coins be done. 
 
I'll use American denominations in examples since I don't know your denominations.  Who is going to be willing to carry nothing but coins?  If I pay for something with a ten dollar coin, I'm not going to want to get four coins for dollars and two quarters, a dime and a nickel back.  If I pay for something with a ten dollar coin and I'm owed eight dollars and twenty cents, I am not going to want to receive a five dollar coin, three one dollar coins and two dimes.  People aren't going to walk around with lots of heavy coins jingling in their pockets and wearing out the material in their clothes. 
 
and think of all the different coins you would have to learn.  The penny, nickel, dime, quarter, dollar, five dollar, ten, twenty, fifty, assuming you never have a higher denomination. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Ron Canazzi
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2018 8:05 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] accessible money
 

Hi Kerryn,

 

If you can convince the powers that be in Trinidad to switch to all coinage rather than paper money, that would be the ideal thing to do.  Most blind people here in the United States have no difficulty with coinage.  The pennies, nickels, dimes and quarters are all differently rimmed and of different sizes and weights.  In the United States, we like our paper money.  There was great resistance to any change for large denominations than quarters.  However in a smaller country like Trinidad, you might have less resistance.  Good luck.

 


On 6/8/2018 8:29 PM, Kerryn Gunness via Groups.Io wrote:
hi
we in trinidad would like to make our money accessible to our blind or visually  impaired persons
what guidelines we should work with as to approach the powers that be, in our meeting on tuesday 12th june, in having this done, in terms of technology, tack tile immages etc
thanks
 

-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"



Re: win10 classic applications for administration (system activation)

 

Hi,

Thanks for confirming this. Looks like an advisory on the Win10 forum might be in order…

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, June 9, 2018 3:47 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] win10 classic applications for administration (system activation)

 

Joseph,

         Just as a data point, when I did my last test I had been out of NVDA and restarted it, but had not exited the Update & Security Settings, Activation Pane, and the dialog for product key did announce the edit box.

         But, I had since shut down Windows Settings and NVDA.  When I just tried this again, starting settings with WinKey+I, and navigating to that dialog it would not read until I followed the instructions you've just given

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

     Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

          ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore

 

 


Re: win10 classic applications for administration (system activation)

 

Joseph,

         Just as a data point, when I did my last test I had been out of NVDA and restarted it, but had not exited the Update & Security Settings, Activation Pane, and the dialog for product key did announce the edit box.

         But, I had since shut down Windows Settings and NVDA.  When I just tried this again, starting settings with WinKey+I, and navigating to that dialog it would not read until I followed the instructions you've just given

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

     Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

          ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore

 

 


Re: win10 classic applications for administration (system activation)

 

Hi,
Workaround found: somehow, Narrator reads this admin flow window. Without installing the aforementioned add-on, the product key dialog content will not be read.
Try:
1. When the product key dialog appears, restart NVDA while this dialog is in focus.
2. Try navigating the dialog again.

Technical: the "product key" dialog is sandboxed inside an admin flow window that is a completely different app executable than the Settings screen itself. In order to navigate this dialog, NVDA must be told that this is a screen that can be trusted, and one way to do this is restarting NVDA right then. At the moment there's no known workaround that I can code; however, I'd be happy to look into filing a feedback via Feedback Hub.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of David Mehler
Sent: Saturday, June 9, 2018 3:28 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] win10 classic applications for administration (system activation)

Hello,

Thanks to everyone who has replied, please keep the suggestions coming.

In answer, I do have the win10 app essentials going, it's version
18.25 this is again on 1803 win10.

The link I am refering to Brian is your number 3 the change product key link, I hit that and I get a window popup that says enter product key window, and nothing, no edit field to enter the key, tabbing produces no buttons, it's like a blank window.

Thanks.
Dave.


On 6/9/18, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
On Sat, Jun 9, 2018 at 03:01 pm, Chris Mullins wrote:


Have you got the windows 10 app essentials add-on installed in NVDA?
Try downloading and installing it and see if you ccan read the
controls in Settings.
Chris, I realized I'd never installed this add-on, so I just did (and
restarted NVDA 2018.1.1). It makes no difference whatsoever.

--

*Brian* *-* Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134

Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is
always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

~ H.L. Mencken , AKA The Sage of Baltimore




Re: win10 classic applications for administration (system activation)

 

Dave,

          Call the Accessibility Help Desk.  When this link is activated you should get a dialog with the product key edit box as the first thing you land in, and that actually announced.   I suspect something is corrupt about the installation, which has been known to happen.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

     Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

          ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore

 

 


Re: win10 classic applications for administration (system activation)

David Mehler
 

Hello,

Thanks to everyone who has replied, please keep the suggestions coming.

In answer, I do have the win10 app essentials going, it's version
18.25 this is again on 1803 win10.

The link I am refering to Brian is your number 3 the change product
key link, I hit that and I get a window popup that says enter product
key window, and nothing, no edit field to enter the key, tabbing
produces no buttons, it's like a blank window.

Thanks.
Dave.

On 6/9/18, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
On Sat, Jun 9, 2018 at 03:01 pm, Chris Mullins wrote:


Have you got the windows 10 app essentials add-on installed in NVDA? Try
downloading and installing it and see if you ccan read the controls in
Settings.
Chris, I realized I'd never installed this add-on, so I just did (and
restarted NVDA 2018.1.1).  It makes no difference whatsoever.

--

*Brian* *-* Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134

     Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a
well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

          ~ H.L. Mencken , AKA The Sage of Baltimore




Re: win10 classic applications for administration (system activation)

 

On Sat, Jun 9, 2018 at 03:01 pm, Chris Mullins wrote:
Have you got the windows 10 app essentials add-on installed in NVDA? Try downloading and installing it and see if you ccan read the controls in Settings.
Chris, I realized I'd never installed this add-on, so I just did (and restarted NVDA 2018.1.1).  It makes no difference whatsoever.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

     Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

          ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore

 

 


Re: win10 classic applications for administration (system activation)

Chris Mullins
 

Hi Dave
Have you got the windows 10 app essentials add-on installed in NVDA? Try downloading and installing it and see if you ccan read the controls in Settings.


Cheers
Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of David Mehler
Sent: 9 June 2018 22:41
To: nvda
Subject: [nvda] win10 classic applications for administration (system activation)

Hello,

I know this is win10, the machine is running a new install of 1803. I
am running the latest NVDA so that's why i'm sending this to you,
apologize to those who are on both lists, but I need some help.

Is there a way to get the classic win7 applications back for
administration tasks? I can still go to control panel, find what I
want, hit it, and it brings me in to settings.

I am not a fan of settings, I like it in and of the fact that it
unifies applications, but interacting with some controls really needs
accessibility work, UIA or what it is called.

Here's my problem, fresh install of a machine running 1803 needs
activated. I've got the key, that I didn't have during the install, so
I've gone to settings and tried an activation and have tried through
control panel, which brought me back to the same place.

In both cases NVDA would not read anything on the screen, I have to
enter my product key then go for an online activation. In 7 this went
flawlessly, in 10 I can't even get the key in, let alone activate.

How does one do this?

Thanks.
Dave.


Re: win10 classic applications for administration (system activation)

 

Dave,

           As far as I know there is nothing that's in Settings that remains in Control Panel, for the most part, but there are still plenty of links in settings that shoot you straight back to the old dialogs used in Control Panel, and that can still be accessed from there.

           What are you not hearing?  Although my installation is activated, when I go to Settings, Update & Security, Activation Pane I am able to land on all of the controls there and have them announced.  In my case the "Change product key" link is definitely spoken, and if that's spoken it means you're activated.

            I do find it annoying that the context for the things that are announced are not included, which is unusual, so the following may help:

1.  The first control I land on is the "Learn More" link which is under the Windows Activation section which comes first, and the statement before it that tells me that my Windows 10 is activated with a digital license linked to my Microsoft Account is not announced.

2.  If I hit tab, the next thing I land on is the Go To Store link, which you'd use if you needed to buy a license key or to buy a license key for an upgraded edition of Windows, e.g., Pro if you have Home.

3.  Tab again and I land on the Change product key link.  I would presume this would be Enter product key if the installation of Windows 10 is unlicensed and in the 30-day trial period, but if it's licensed and you're looking to change editions of Windows this is what I imagine you'll want to activate.

I doubt that any of the things you can tab to after the Change product key (or equivalent Enter) link that would be of interest.  Next is a link Get more info about activation, then beyond that a link for Get help then beyond that a link for Give us feedback.

Someone else will have to let you know whether the current state of affairs with the information preceding these controls not being read is new to Version 1803 and a bug.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

     Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

          ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore

 

 


win10 classic applications for administration (system activation)

David Mehler
 

Hello,

I know this is win10, the machine is running a new install of 1803. I
am running the latest NVDA so that's why i'm sending this to you,
apologize to those who are on both lists, but I need some help.

Is there a way to get the classic win7 applications back for
administration tasks? I can still go to control panel, find what I
want, hit it, and it brings me in to settings.

I am not a fan of settings, I like it in and of the fact that it
unifies applications, but interacting with some controls really needs
accessibility work, UIA or what it is called.

Here's my problem, fresh install of a machine running 1803 needs
activated. I've got the key, that I didn't have during the install, so
I've gone to settings and tried an activation and have tried through
control panel, which brought me back to the same place.

In both cases NVDA would not read anything on the screen, I have to
enter my product key then go for an online activation. In 7 this went
flawlessly, in 10 I can't even get the key in, let alone activate.

How does one do this?

Thanks.
Dave.


Re: conversion info

 

Kerryn,

        Since I read via the web interface, all e-mail addresses that are not "@groups.io" get fig-leafed, as they say, after the at sign.  My e-mail address is britechguy@..., and you should be able to see this in a groups.io message delivered by e-mail.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

     Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

          ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore

 

 


Re: accessible money

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

Hi, Sean,


In 2013 Mom went to Target to do some Christmas shopping. When she went to pay for the things, she found out that her information had been stolen. She had to end up getting a new card. I was fortunate not to have that happen to me because I did my shopping at Best Buy. That was when I got a boom box.


Rosemarie

On 6/9/2018 1:50 PM, Shaun Everiss wrote:
And what if the banks go down.

Actually I can think of another reason, I was traveling with my dad on a holiday to australia, its not far from here its not third world its not  to bad its a western country.

We had enough cash between us but my dad had some issues with one of his credit cards, he had told the local bank I think it was westpack he was going to australia and was assured it would be fine, westpack being an australian bank so didn't need to take precautions you take in other parts of the world.

He got to the machines, and tried to pay, and then tried again, nothing.

He got to the banked and they said his account was compromised.

It took us a huge toll call to ring up the local branch in nz to talk to their managers over there to transfer rights over.

So electronic cash isn't really an option when traveling and in markets and with street people you need cash.

Now with your mobile phone previded you don't drop it, get it locked in a shop by mistake, stolen, or anything else that would have all your data stolen your bank direct app of choice may be able to scale global for you with nfc.

But as for cash, I do have a identifier however I usually keep 20 dollar notes, they are easier to handle than moving 50 dollars out, there are ways to identify them but usually I get a trusted friend to handle my cash or just run 20 and 10 dollar notes.

20 50 10 1 and 2 dollar coins are marked for access.

Having extra coins would be a weight to be honest.

I had a wallet split for having to many coins.




On 6/10/2018 6:19 AM, JM Casey wrote:
I think physical cash money will be around for a very long time yet. Even though it’s true some places are trying to go cash-free, I still see places both here in Canada and in the uS that are cash only. They just prefer it that way, and they have their reasons. I’m mostly for the progress of technology and convenience but I, too, prefer cash for a lot of things. But, I guess we will see how things go. I understand that some countries have already mostly made a transition to being cash-free, so maybe, indeed, it is only a matter of time.




From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Ron Canazzi
Sent: June 9, 2018 8:03 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] accessible money


Well, we wouldn't have to learn any more than 5 more coins. They could be differently shaped for ease of accessibility.  As far as the jingling, to be honest, less and less people use real money any more.  So this may become a moot point anyway.  For example, we are getting a group of Starbucks's restaurants locally in the Buffalo, New York area that will accept nothing but credit or debit cards. So I wonder how long there will actually be any so called legal tender any more anyway.



On 6/8/2018 11:03 PM, Gene wrote:

It isn't reasonable to ask that switching to coins be done.


I'll use American denominations in examples since I don't know your denominations.  Who is going to be willing to carry nothing but coins?  If I pay for something with a ten dollar coin, I'm not going to want to get four coins for dollars and two quarters, a dime and a nickel back.  If I pay for something with a ten dollar coin and I'm owed eight dollars and twenty cents, I am not going to want to receive a five dollar coin, three one dollar coins and two dimes.  People aren't going to walk around with lots of heavy coins jingling in their pockets and wearing out the material in their clothes.


and think of all the different coins you would have to learn. The penny, nickel, dime, quarter, dollar, five dollar, ten, twenty, fifty, assuming you never have a higher denomination.


Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Ron Canazzi <mailto:aa2vm@...>

Sent: Friday, June 08, 2018 8:05 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] accessible money


Hi Kerryn,


If you can convince the powers that be in Trinidad to switch to all coinage rather than paper money, that would be the ideal thing to do.  Most blind people here in the United States have no difficulty with coinage.  The pennies, nickels, dimes and quarters are all differently rimmed and of different sizes and weights.  In the United States, we like our paper money.  There was great resistance to any change for large denominations than quarters.  However in a smaller country like Trinidad, you might have less resistance.  Good luck.



On 6/8/2018 8:29 PM, Kerryn Gunness via Groups.Io wrote:

hi

we in trinidad would like to make our money accessible to our blind or visually  impaired persons

what guidelines we should work with as to approach the powers that be, in our meeting on tuesday 12th june, in having this done, in terms of technology, tack tile immages etc

thanks







Re: accessible money

Gene
 

With the continued and increasing vulnerability of essential services in societies to disruption by hackers, private or national, it is the height of foolhardiness to rush headlong into more reliance on computerizing things to the extent you are describing.  If I had my way, I would not allow any more computerization of essential services until effective and credible protections are known to be in place. 
 
Mostly eliminating actual money in this environment is dangerous and foolish and so typical of our suicidal societies.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2018 8:50 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] accessible money

Sweden has become largely cash-free during the past few years (ironically
enough, partly encouraged by a redesign of the banknotes, which instead of
accepting the change, people to a large extent simply stopped using them
completely).

There are many shops, restaurants and bars with signs saying "no cash" or "we
do not take cash" - they only take payment by card.


Antony.

On Saturday 09 June 2018 at 14:02:37, Ron Canazzi wrote:

> Well, we wouldn't have to learn any more than 5 more coins.  They could
> be differently shaped for ease of accessibility.  As far as the
> jingling, to be honest, less and less people use real money any more.
> So this may become a moot point anyway.  For example, we are getting a
> group of Starbucks's restaurants locally in the Buffalo, New York area
> that will accept nothing but credit or debit cards. So I wonder how long
> there will actually be any so called legal tender any more anyway.
>
> On 6/8/2018 11:03 PM, Gene wrote:
> > It isn't reasonable to ask that switching to coins be done.
> > I'll use American denominations in examples since I don't know your
> > denominations.  Who is going to be willing to carry nothing but
> > coins?  If I pay for something with a ten dollar coin, I'm not going
> > to want to get four coins for dollars and two quarters, a dime and a
> > nickel back.  If I pay for something with a ten dollar coin and I'm
> > owed eight dollars and twenty cents, I am not going to want to receive
> > a five dollar coin, three one dollar coins and two dimes.  People
> > aren't going to walk around with lots of heavy coins jingling in their
> > pockets and wearing out the material in their clothes.
> > and think of all the different coins you would have to learn.  The
> > penny, nickel, dime, quarter, dollar, five dollar, ten, twenty, fifty,
> > assuming you never have a higher denomination.
> > Gene
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > *From:* Ron Canazzi <mailto:aa2vm@...>
> > *Sent:* Friday, June 08, 2018 8:05 PM
> > *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> > *Subject:* Re: [nvda] accessible money
> >
> > Hi Kerryn,
> >
> >
> > If you can convince the powers that be in Trinidad to switch to all
> > coinage rather than paper money, that would be the ideal thing to do.
> > Most blind people here in the United States have no difficulty with
> > coinage.  The pennies, nickels, dimes and quarters are all differently
> > rimmed and of different sizes and weights.  In the United States, we
> > like our paper money.  There was great resistance to any change for
> > large denominations than quarters.  However in a smaller country like
> > Trinidad, you might have less resistance.  Good luck.
> >
> > On 6/8/2018 8:29 PM, Kerryn Gunness via Groups.Io wrote:
> >> hi
> >> we in trinidad would like to make our money accessible to our blind
> >> or visually  impaired persons
> >> what guidelines we should work with as to approach the powers that
> >> be, in our meeting on tuesday 12th june, in having this done, in
> >> terms of technology, tack tile immages etc
> >> thanks

--
"Black holes are where God divided by zero."

 - Steven Wright

                                                   Please reply to the list;
                                                         please *don't* CC me.



Re: conversion info

Kerryn Gunness <k_gunness@...>
 


thanks brian
email me privately
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, June 9, 2018 2:45 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] conversion info

Kerryn,

          A word of caution here, it appears that the "cut and paste of text" is not universally supported.  I can cut or copy text out of MS-Word, and paste it in to Paint, but if I select and copy text from the groups.io forum page on which I'm typing, from any of the earlier messages or the one I'm writing now, there is no option to paste it.

          If you know that all the text you want to copy from a given program is visible within the window you're working in, and oftentimes that's easy to know for a maximized window with a limited amount of text in it, I'd suggest you take a windowed screen shot instead using ALT+PrtSc, and paste that into Paint.  You will, of course, also have the window frame in that case as well, so if you're working in, say, MS-Word with the ribbons expanded those will be a part of a windowed screen capture  A straight PrtSc does a full screen capture, including your taskbar, etc.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

     Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

          ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore

 

 


water fox?

 

Hello can I get the name of those sound add ons that water fox can run? the ones that blind  people using?

please email me off list

--
check out my song on youtube
https://youtu.be/YeWgx2LRu7Y


Re: accessible money

 

And what if the banks go down.

Actually I can think of another reason, I was traveling with my dad on a holiday to australia, its not far from here its not third world its not  to bad its a western country.

We had enough cash between us but my dad had some issues with one of his credit cards, he had told the local bank I think it was westpack he was going to australia and was assured it would be fine, westpack being an australian bank so didn't need to take precautions you take in other parts of the world.

He got to the machines, and tried to pay, and then tried again, nothing.

He got to the banked and they said his account was compromised.

It took us a huge toll call to ring up the local branch in nz to talk to their managers over there to transfer rights over.

So electronic cash isn't really an option when traveling and in markets and with street people you need cash.

Now with your mobile phone previded you don't drop it, get it locked in a shop by mistake, stolen, or anything else that would have all your data stolen your bank direct app of choice may be able to scale global for you with nfc.

But as for cash, I do have a identifier however I usually keep 20 dollar notes, they are easier to handle than moving 50 dollars out, there are ways to identify them but usually I get a trusted friend to handle my cash or just run 20 and 10 dollar notes.

20 50 10 1 and 2 dollar coins are marked for access.

Having extra coins would be a weight to be honest.

I had a wallet split for having to many coins.

On 6/10/2018 6:19 AM, JM Casey wrote:
I think physical cash money will be around for a very long time yet. Even though it’s true some places are trying to go cash-free, I still see places both here in Canada and in the uS that are cash only. They just prefer it that way, and they have their reasons. I’m mostly for the progress of technology and convenience but I, too, prefer cash for a lot of things. But, I guess we will see how things go. I understand that some countries have already mostly made a transition to being cash-free, so maybe, indeed, it is only a matter of time.




From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Ron Canazzi
Sent: June 9, 2018 8:03 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] accessible money


Well, we wouldn't have to learn any more than 5 more coins. They could be differently shaped for ease of accessibility. As far as the jingling, to be honest, less and less people use real money any more. So this may become a moot point anyway. For example, we are getting a group of Starbucks's restaurants locally in the Buffalo, New York area that will accept nothing but credit or debit cards. So I wonder how long there will actually be any so called legal tender any more anyway.



On 6/8/2018 11:03 PM, Gene wrote:

It isn't reasonable to ask that switching to coins be done.


I'll use American denominations in examples since I don't know your denominations. Who is going to be willing to carry nothing but coins? If I pay for something with a ten dollar coin, I'm not going to want to get four coins for dollars and two quarters, a dime and a nickel back. If I pay for something with a ten dollar coin and I'm owed eight dollars and twenty cents, I am not going to want to receive a five dollar coin, three one dollar coins and two dimes. People aren't going to walk around with lots of heavy coins jingling in their pockets and wearing out the material in their clothes.


and think of all the different coins you would have to learn. The penny, nickel, dime, quarter, dollar, five dollar, ten, twenty, fifty, assuming you never have a higher denomination.


Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Ron Canazzi <mailto:aa2vm@...>

Sent: Friday, June 08, 2018 8:05 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] accessible money


Hi Kerryn,


If you can convince the powers that be in Trinidad to switch to all coinage rather than paper money, that would be the ideal thing to do. Most blind people here in the United States have no difficulty with coinage. The pennies, nickels, dimes and quarters are all differently rimmed and of different sizes and weights. In the United States, we like our paper money. There was great resistance to any change for large denominations than quarters. However in a smaller country like Trinidad, you might have less resistance. Good luck.



On 6/8/2018 8:29 PM, Kerryn Gunness via Groups.Io wrote:

hi

we in trinidad would like to make our money accessible to our blind or visually impaired persons

what guidelines we should work with as to approach the powers that be, in our meeting on tuesday 12th june, in having this done, in terms of technology, tack tile immages etc

thanks






Re: URL links

Gene
 

You don't have a file in  a URL link. 
 
First, the URL of a file is what the link tells the browser.  So you either say URL or link.  Saying both is reduntant.  What is the link or what is the URL?  Not both. 
 
A link is how you get to a file.  It tells the browser where to go to open and display the file.  The file is using html for formatting and to tell the browser how to display other things.   It's a code such as is used in a word processor to tell the word processor how to display the document. 
 
You can save a web page as an html document and in other formats such as a text file.  But a link has nothing to do with the file itself.  It just tells the browser where the file is.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----

Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2018 7:09 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] URL links

actually i didn’t think about that i will have to try that
there is something i am trying to do that requires me to have the webpage in a html file instead of a URL link
> On Jun 9, 2018, at 4:12 AM, marcio via Groups.Io <marcinhorj21@...> wrote:
>
> I really didn't understood what do you meant.
> Anyway, have you already tried to save the page? You can do it simple pressing CTRL+S when you have opened the desired link.
> Hope this helps
>
> Cheers,
> Marcio
>
> Em 08/06/2018 22:26, Brennen Kinch escreveu:
>> hi does anyone know if there’s a way to take a URL link and convert it into an HTML file
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>