Date   

NVDA, and the new version of iTunes.

Matt Turner
 

Just wanted to let everyone no, that iTunes is broken, i think.
In the new version, if you pick a album or song, NVDA doesn't read the song or album your on unless you shift+Tab.
Confused.


Re: Anti-Virus

Rui Fontes
 

What languages these antivirus have?

Rui


-----Mensagem Original-----
De: Governor staten
Data: terÁa-feira, 17 de maio de 2016 16:56
Para: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Assunto: Re: [nvda] Anti-Virus

Sophos home. You get a license for up to ten computers. It is
accessible, and free. It usually stays out of the way.

On 5/17/2016 11:40 AM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:
A friend of mine uses Nod 32.



-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Andrea
Sherry
Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2016 3:20 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Anti-Virus

Opinions about the most accessible with NVDA.

Does not have to be freeware. In fact I would prefer a paid for program.

Any suggestions please.

Andrea



--
Though no one can go back and make a brand new start, anyone can start
from now and make a brand new ending." - Carl Brad




Re: Anti-Virus

Brian's Mail list account BY <bglists@...>
 

The question really is though, how effective are they and how invasive.
some now report nvdas activities as suspicious, so I've stayed with Microsofts one.
It does seem to pick up threats, but as in any of them, one can never know what they miss. Many people seem to have some malware run once solutions as well to double check how the main one is working.

This leads me to ask one question. In Windows 10, it says its using Windows Defender. Is this what we used to call MSSE in previous versions of Windows, but the question is, although it seems to say its working, I have not yet found out how one actually administers it like we used to do in msse, ie I see no tray icon at all.

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "lali" <lali.belteki1@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2016 5:02 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Anti-Virus


Dear Andrea!


Vipre is the best!

--
mail: lali.belteki1@... skype: b.laller1986 twitter:
www.twitter.com/nyelvesz01 Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/people/Lajos-Legifj-B%C3%A9lteki/100010369244191


Re: Sighted instructins, was Fly Outsn?

Patrick Le Baudour
 

It can be used for gui designing, to open files in some applications (I don't remeber why, but I have had to use that in the past) - that would just require to put it in the correct window -, sometimes to add in a zip file, or to execute a program with a file parameter that is in the same opened folder, or to do individual item sorting in explorer or another application...
Most things can be done other ways, drag and drop was quite convenient in some cases, though.


-- Patrick

Le 17/05/2016 à 00:15, Brian Vogel a écrit :
Arianna,

Drag-and-drop is a very frequently used operation, in many
contexts. In file explorer or windows explorer (depending on which
version of Windows you're using) moving files and folders from place to
place is most commonly done by drag-and-drop, which makes a lot of sense
intuitively because the visuals are as though you've picked up the
selected items and are carrying them from location A to location B. Of
course, this is easily done by select, cut, and paste via the keyboard.

In Microsoft Word, one can position things like tables,
images, and the like by dragging them and dropping them where you'd like
them. Mind you, Word will often not put them precisely where you
thought because it needs to flow text around it or the like, but text
wrapping can be changed such that you get precisely what you want.

There are websites where there are quizzes or tests that
operate by drag-and-drop. For instance, you have a list of terms on one
side and definitions on the other. Often you'll drag-and-drop an
electronic line between the term and what you believe to be its
definition, very much like the paper version of a test that works this way.

The problem with drag-and-drop is that, in the vast majority
of cases, is it's directly dependent on sight. You need to be able to
see source and destination, regardless of context, and to know when
you've reached your destination visually to do the drop. There are some
situations where that may not be the case, but they're relatively few
and far between, and I'm hard pressed at the moment to come up with a
good example. It will probably occur to me right after I hit "send" or
I'll encounter one by happenstance later this evening.

By the way, I seldom use drag and drop to move files
anymore. I far more commonly cut and paste.

*/Brian/*
--

*Never underestimate the difficulty of changing false beliefs by facts. *
* */ ~ Henry Rosovsky/





Re: Anti-Virus

lali <lali.belteki1@...>
 

Dear Andrea!


    Vipre is the best!


Re: Anti-Virus

 

Sophos home. You get a license for up to ten computers. It is
accessible, and free. It usually stays out of the way.

On 5/17/2016 11:40 AM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:
A friend of mine uses Nod 32.



-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Andrea Sherry
Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2016 3:20 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Anti-Virus

Opinions about the most accessible with NVDA.

Does not have to be freeware. In fact I would prefer a paid for program.

Any suggestions please.

Andrea



--
Though no one can go back and make a brand new start, anyone can start from now and make a brand new ending." - Carl Brad




Re: Anti-Virus

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

A friend of mine uses Nod 32.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Andrea Sherry
Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2016 3:20 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Anti-Virus

Opinions about the most accessible with NVDA.

Does not have to be freeware. In fact I would prefer a paid for program.

Any suggestions please.

Andrea



--
Though no one can go back and make a brand new start, anyone can start from now and make a brand new ending." - Carl Brad


Re: Anti-Virus

Angela Delicata
 

Eset nod 32.


Il 17/05/2016 12:20, Andrea Sherry ha scritto:
Opinions about the most accessible with NVDA.

Does not have to be freeware. In fact I would prefer a paid for program.

Any suggestions please.

Andrea

---
Questa e-mail è stata controllata per individuare virus con Avast antivirus.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


Re: Web Page navigation

willmac@lantic.net
 

Thanks for the input Chris.
 
Rgs,
 
William
 

------ Original Message ------
From: "Chris Mullins" <cjmullins29@...>
Sent: 2016/05/17 2:39:22 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation

Hi William

Glad to see you are getting to grips with NVDA but I thought a little more explanation of the capslock feature described by Gene would be of interest to you.  In explaining how to enter the NVDA menu and set the capslock checkbox, Gene said to press Insert + n to display the NVDA menu.  Having set the checkbox and saved the settings, the Capslock key now works the same as the Insert key for the purpose of entering NVDA commands, as it is now an NVDA modifier key.  This is great for touch typists as you now have an NVDA modifier key either side of the keyboard, so for example you could now use the Capslock + n combination to open the NVDA menu.  Pressing the key twice quickly enables the Capslock key to perform its usual function.

 

Cheers

Chris

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of willmac@...
Sent: 17 May 2016 09:19
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation

 

Thanks Gene.  This exactly what I want. An action to turn CAPS LOCK on or off to allow me to type text with Caps Lock off and after wards putting CAP LOCK on again.

 Thank you.

 

William

 

------ Original Message ------

From: "Gene" <gsasner@...>

Sent: 2016/05/16 5:47:35 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation

It sounds as though you are doing better in working with web pages.  That's good. 

 

I'm not sure what you want to do.  If you want to disable the caps lock key so that pressing it does nothing, that is not an NVDA setting.  But you can set NVDA so that the caps lock has to be pressed twice quickly to keep it from turning on or off. 

 

Issue the command insert n.  You can use either insert.

Down arrow to preferences.  Press enter.

Down arrow to keyboard settings.

Press enter.

Tab to the check box that says some thing like use caps lock as modifier.

Press the space bar to check the check box, then press enter.

You are now back where you started.  The dialog has closed.

Now issue the command insert control c to save the setting permanently.  You will hear something like configuration saved.  This will save all your current settings so be sure you haven't changed anything else that you don't want changed permanently. 

 

Gene

 

 

From: willmac@...

Sent: Monday, May 16, 2016 9:45 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation

 

 

Hi Gene,

 

At last I seem to have gone a stage further. You will not believe the effort I put into this.

 

As far as I can ascertain, I followed your tutorial faithfully.  What I did NOT do was give the keystroke "down arrow" time to work through the various options before it started reading.

 

Thank you for your patience and help.

Regards.

William.

PS. Is there a shortcut key to turn off Caps Lock while using NVDA

 

 

 

 

 

------ Original Message ------

From: "Gene" <gsasner@...>

Sent: 2016/05/13 6:38:08 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation

This is like a very short tutorial.  Trying what I describe may help you understand and work with what we have been discussing.

 

Let's use this very nonstandard web page to get to a much more typical one.  Open the page, make sure you are at the top with the command control home.

Now tab to the first story.  The first news story is:

Solidarity launches class action against GEPF

Follow that link by pressing enter.

You will be taken to the page with the story.  Starting at the top of the page, press h.  That will move you to a heading and as you continue to press it, you will be moved to other headings.  The heading that is the title of the story is where the article begins.  If you start reading from there by down arrowing or by using the read to end command, you will start hearing the article.  If you stop reading and press h two or three more times, you will see a heading that says your next story.  There will be a link to the next story either above or below the heading.  A heading is written using a different format to draw the reader's eye to the text of the heading.  You don't do anything with a heading except read it.  You would expect the link to be below the heading since the heading is not a link.  And if you down arrow, you will find the link.  You may find on some sites, that you have to up arrow, but usually, if the heading is not the link, you would down arrow. 

 

Gene

From: Gene

Sent: Friday, May 13, 2016 10:16 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation

 

This message is long but I'm not sure the material could have been adequately covered in a shorter message.

 

The site you are discussing is not a typical Internet site. 

First a comment or two about structures in general.  You don't open headings.  You move to them.  You follow links by pressing enter on them.  But the site you are working with has nothing but links.  That is very nonstandard.  Go to the page you asked about.  Either start reading or if you just want to see links on this page, start tabbing.  Follow links by pressing enter.  If you want to learn to work with the commands you are trying to work with, use a conventionally formatted site.  Lots of sites are more or less conventionally formatted.  But this site is so nonstandard that we can tell you how to work with this site but it is not representative of most other sites. 

 

Here is more information. 

 

On the page you gave a link for, most quick navigation keys will only give you messages such as no next heading or no next button, etc.  That's because there are none and wherever you are on the page, there are none below where you are.  The commands such as h move to the next heading below your current position.  On this page, no matter where you are, there are no headings below where you are.  There is nothing anywhere on the page but links and text. 

even at the top of the page moving down the entire page, there are none. 

 

All such commands, b for button, x for check box, etc. look for what they are supposed to look for moving down the page.  If they find what they are looking for, they move you to it.  If they don't find anything, you will stay where you are on the page.

 

I would suggest you get an NVDA tutorial and listen to sections you consider important.  A very well thought of tutorial is available here:

If you look through the page, you will see how it is organized and you will get an idea of what you want to listen to.  Some people learn better using written material but many people prefer tutorials and if you do, this is a good one.

 

As far as how the keys work in general, I don't know how many sites you've tried them on.  If you go to a more or less standard site, you should get responses from many of the keys. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

 

From: willmac@...

Sent: Friday, May 13, 2016 9:01 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation

 

Hi Gene & Brian.

 

First of all in response to an earlier reference from Gene I must state categorically that I am a complete novice as regards NVDA.

I have heard the term "there are more than one way to skin a cat".  Well I am present not able to skin any cat.

I have read thru quite a bit of the short cut keys and they do not react to the way I expect.

 

That is why i submitted my originally URL http://t.digitalnewspaper.co.za/nl/jsp/m.jsp?c=%40fjNSuVTurK7VzhMSOxyzIucXl%2BKsnii1IrXYxuvhTwY%3D which I list again. Gene went to a lot of trouble detailing certain key strokes. However en this led to all sort of results.

I am not all interested in any  k links. If at all possible would it not be possible to give me the simplest method,  At this stage I am only interested in opening the headings and would want the key strokes required to read such articles continuously to the end.  Is this possible?.

 

Regards,

William

 

 

 

------ Original Message ------

From: "Brian Vogel" <britechguy@...>

Sent: 2016/05/12 6:15:20 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation

Gene,

           When the format of a given specific webpage is known, and in this case it is known to be nothing more than a list of links to articles, I don't think it's a disservice to anyone who cannot see to state that fact and to tell them that for this particular page using an elements list is the way to go.

           I'm not trying to teach general principles here, but to help someone get through a very specific webpage, and its child pages.

           And, yes, that's my opinion when I have a specific case under discussion, not a "how would one best go about this in the general case of an unfamiliar page."  Even then I'd encourage someone to give the elements list a look to get a quick snapshot regarding what links, headers, or landmarks might or might not be present.  There's more than one way to skin a cat.

Brian
-- 

Never underestimate the difficulty of changing false beliefs by facts. 

   ~ Henry Rosovsky

    

 


Re: embedded object in Firefox

Pete <emac00@...>
 

 
  Hi  Gene 
  I think Brian was saying HTML5 didn't behave on his XP machines.  Adobe flash enabled on my computer would play the audio/video streams I just didn't like not having access to the controls for it. 
  Pete 

On 5/14/2016 7:40 AM, Gene wrote:
In your message concerning Flash and html5, which I didn't keep, so I'm writing from my recollection, it appears you said that flash didn't play well in XP.  I have never had problems related to XP specifically and Flash.  Even on a slow machine, Flash played properly.  It's HTML5 that doesn't play well on both of my XP machines and one should certainly be more than fast enough to play HTML5 audio content properly. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Friday, May 13, 2016 3:11 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] embedded object in Firefox

Disabling the Flash player may or may not solve the problem.  If HTML5 is available from the site, the HTML5 code is usually accessible and will likely allow you to play the audio if the Flash player being used is inaccessible.  But just disabling Flash may keep you from listening to audio you want to hear.  It depends on whether the site in question supports HTML5 at this time.  Many sites do and many don't.  I expect there is a way to make HTML the default choice which would allow the site to give you Flash content if necessary.  If this option is available, it would be a browser setting or would be made available in a plugin.  I don't know enough to comment further.  And it should be pointed out that I've tested with two XP machines and HTML audio doesn't play properly even though it's supposed to.  It appears that HTML5 isn't properly compatible with XP, at least not at this time and it might never be.  I have tested with both Chrome and Firefox with bad results.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Pete
Sent: Friday, May 13, 2016 2:03 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] embedded object in Firefox


   I disabled adobe flash player for this vary reason,
   I get warnings about flash player being disabled but the audio still
plays,
   not sure what is actually playing the audio,
   using fire fox 46.0 win 7 64 pro nvda latest.
   Pete


On 5/7/2016 10:06 AM, Cearbhall O'Meadhra wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I found a problem in Firefox when attempting to listen to a sample of an
> audio book in the BorrowBox library system. I don't know if this is an NVDA
> problem or exclusively a Firefox Flash Player issue. or if Bolinda need to
> do something with their Java script. I should mention that the sighted user
> has no problem playing the audio sample using a mouse.
>
> I am using Windows 10,, NVDA 2016.1 and Firefox46.1 on a desktop PC.
>
> If List members would like to see the problem for themselves I recommend the
> following url:
> https://fe.bolindadigital.com/wldcs_bol_fo/b2i/productOverview.html?b2bSite=
> 4834&browseItemId=366096&fromPage=1
> It is not necessary to sign in to sample the reading of a title.
>
> Here is a typical audio book display:
>
> --Start of clip -----------------------
> link graphic Railway Viaduct
> embedded object unavailable (this should say "Preview" but doesn't!)
> Link Reserve
> On Loan, Available on 22/05/16
> Link Railway Viaduct
> Link Edward Marston
> Read by Sam Dastor
> Crime & Thriller, Historical Fiction
> eAudiobook - Unabridged
> ---end of clip ------------------
>
> The player for the audio sample is activated by an "embedded object" that is
> flagged by NVDA as "not being available". The BorrowBox help page advises
> that Adobe flash must be active to enable audio sampling of each title. I
> have Adobe flash installed and active. For example, I can play any song in
> YouTube in Firefox without any problem.
>
> After many weeks of failing to play the preview, I found the following
> workaround using NVDA:
>
> >From the top of the web page select eAudio if not already selected. Then
> press "g" to find a book title. If the next   object after pressing
> down-arrow once is "embedded Object" then you have an audio book and we can
> start.
>
> Here is the full sequence of steps:
> 1. Press G for the graphic of the book title;
> 2. Press down-arrow once to the embedded object. You should hear "Embedded
> Object not available";
> 3. Press NVDA + numpad Enter to activate the embedded object. You should
> hear "Embedded Object Unavailable Activate";
> 4. Press right arrow once. You should hear ""Space";
> 5. Press the space bar  to start and stop the sample audio of the narrator
> speaking.
>
> If pressing the space bar does not act as a toggle and the enter key does
> not do the job either:
> 6. Press right arrow once;
> 7. Press space bar or main keyboard enter to play and stop playing the audio
> sample.
>
> Can anyone advise what to do about this?
> A. Is it an NVDA problem?
> B. Is it a Firefox problem?
> c. Is it a BorrowBox problem for the developer Bolinda to see to?
>
>
> All the best,
>
> Cearbhall
>
> m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>





Re: embedded object in Firefox

Pete <emac00@...>
 

 
  Hi
Gene 
  I have the v l c media player installed and it is set to play in Firefox.  I don't think it is playing the audio, unless it plays hidden.  I am using windows 7 64 bit pro. 
  Thanks 
  Pete 

On 5/13/2016 4:11 PM, Gene wrote:
Disabling the Flash player may or may not solve the problem.  If HTML5 is available from the site, the HTML5 code is usually accessible and will likely allow you to play the audio if the Flash player being used is inaccessible.  But just disabling Flash may keep you from listening to audio you want to hear.  It depends on whether the site in question supports HTML5 at this time.  Many sites do and many don't.  I expect there is a way to make HTML the default choice which would allow the site to give you Flash content if necessary.  If this option is available, it would be a browser setting or would be made available in a plugin.  I don't know enough to comment further.  And it should be pointed out that I've tested with two XP machines and HTML audio doesn't play properly even though it's supposed to.  It appears that HTML5 isn't properly compatible with XP, at least not at this time and it might never be.  I have tested with both Chrome and Firefox with bad results.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Pete
Sent: Friday, May 13, 2016 2:03 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] embedded object in Firefox


   I disabled adobe flash player for this vary reason,
   I get warnings about flash player being disabled but the audio still
plays,
   not sure what is actually playing the audio,
   using fire fox 46.0 win 7 64 pro nvda latest.
   Pete


On 5/7/2016 10:06 AM, Cearbhall O'Meadhra wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I found a problem in Firefox when attempting to listen to a sample of an
> audio book in the BorrowBox library system. I don't know if this is an NVDA
> problem or exclusively a Firefox Flash Player issue. or if Bolinda need to
> do something with their Java script. I should mention that the sighted user
> has no problem playing the audio sample using a mouse.
>
> I am using Windows 10,, NVDA 2016.1 and Firefox46.1 on a desktop PC.
>
> If List members would like to see the problem for themselves I recommend the
> following url:
> https://fe.bolindadigital.com/wldcs_bol_fo/b2i/productOverview.html?b2bSite=
> 4834&browseItemId=366096&fromPage=1
> It is not necessary to sign in to sample the reading of a title.
>
> Here is a typical audio book display:
>
> --Start of clip -----------------------
> link graphic Railway Viaduct
> embedded object unavailable (this should say "Preview" but doesn't!)
> Link Reserve
> On Loan, Available on 22/05/16
> Link Railway Viaduct
> Link Edward Marston
> Read by Sam Dastor
> Crime & Thriller, Historical Fiction
> eAudiobook - Unabridged
> ---end of clip ------------------
>
> The player for the audio sample is activated by an "embedded object" that is
> flagged by NVDA as "not being available". The BorrowBox help page advises
> that Adobe flash must be active to enable audio sampling of each title. I
> have Adobe flash installed and active. For example, I can play any song in
> YouTube in Firefox without any problem.
>
> After many weeks of failing to play the preview, I found the following
> workaround using NVDA:
>
> >From the top of the web page select eAudio if not already selected. Then
> press "g" to find a book title. If the next   object after pressing
> down-arrow once is "embedded Object" then you have an audio book and we can
> start.
>
> Here is the full sequence of steps:
> 1. Press G for the graphic of the book title;
> 2. Press down-arrow once to the embedded object. You should hear "Embedded
> Object not available";
> 3. Press NVDA + numpad Enter to activate the embedded object. You should
> hear "Embedded Object Unavailable Activate";
> 4. Press right arrow once. You should hear ""Space";
> 5. Press the space bar  to start and stop the sample audio of the narrator
> speaking.
>
> If pressing the space bar does not act as a toggle and the enter key does
> not do the job either:
> 6. Press right arrow once;
> 7. Press space bar or main keyboard enter to play and stop playing the audio
> sample.
>
> Can anyone advise what to do about this?
> A. Is it an NVDA problem?
> B. Is it a Firefox problem?
> c. Is it a BorrowBox problem for the developer Bolinda to see to?
>
>
> All the best,
>
> Cearbhall
>
> m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>





Re: Web Page navigation

Pete <emac00@...>
 

 
  Hi  William 
  use the 't' to navigate by table
  the first press of 't' takes you to the date 
  The second press of 't'  takes you to the news section and nvda says blank. 
  If you press up arrow at that time you will here news and pressing down arrow nvda says the name of the first article in the section. 
  I don't know more than that I haven't explored the page more than that. 
  Good luck! 
  Pete 


On 5/13/2016 11:38 AM, Chris Mullins wrote:

William

The problem is that the screen reader, be it NVDA, Jaws or anything else can only be used to navigate a web page using shortcut keystrokes provided the web page in question is marked up using the html elementse those keystrokes require to move focus around the screen.  The page you are referring to has no heading mark-up which is why the h command will not work  The only available mark-up elements appear to be links and paragraphs which is why only k an p commands work.  These may or may not be useful to you in finding where each newsletter item starts, so you may have to do a lot of line by line reading using the arrow keys to find the bits you want.     

 

Cheers

Chris

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of willmac@...
Sent: 13 May 2016 15:02
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation

 

Hi Gene & Brian.

 

First of all in response to an earlier reference from Gene I must state categorically that I am a complete novice as regards NVDA.

I have heard the term "there are more than one way to skin a cat".  Well I am present not able to skin any cat.

I have read thru quite a bit of the short cut keys and they do not react to the way I expect.

 

That is why i submitted my originally URL http://t.digitalnewspaper.co.za/nl/jsp/m.jsp?c=%40fjNSuVTurK7VzhMSOxyzIucXl%2BKsnii1IrXYxuvhTwY%3D which I list again. Gene went to a lot of trouble detailing certain key strokes. However en this led to all sort of results.

I am not all interested in any  k links. If at all possible would it not be possible to give me the simplest method,  At this stage I am only interested in opening the headings and would want the key strokes required to read such articles continuously to the end.  Is this possible?.

 

Regards,

William

 

 

 

------ Original Message ------

From: "Brian Vogel" <britechguy@...>

Sent: 2016/05/12 6:15:20 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation

Gene,

           When the format of a given specific webpage is known, and in this case it is known to be nothing more than a list of links to articles, I don't think it's a disservice to anyone who cannot see to state that fact and to tell them that for this particular page using an elements list is the way to go.

           I'm not trying to teach general principles here, but to help someone get through a very specific webpage, and its child pages.

           And, yes, that's my opinion when I have a specific case under discussion, not a "how would one best go about this in the general case of an unfamiliar page."  Even then I'd encourage someone to give the elements list a look to get a quick snapshot regarding what links, headers, or landmarks might or might not be present.  There's more than one way to skin a cat.

Brian
-- 

Never underestimate the difficulty of changing false beliefs by facts. 

   ~ Henry Rosovsky

    

 



Re: Fly Outs?

Pete <emac00@...>
 

 
  Hi 
  The network icon in the sys tray does this: 
  go to the sys tray 
  arrow to the network icon 
  wait for it 
  it opens up or flys out of accessibility. 
  not navigable using tab or arrow keys 
  might be able to use the mouse 
  not sure haven't tried just hid the darn thing. 
  Pete 
 

On 5/13/2016 7:34 AM, Ron Canazzi wrote:

Hi Group,


When I click on a file type that Windows doesn't recognize, I get this fly out business.  It asks me what program I want to use and gives me a somewhat inaccessible GUI type interface.  By routing around with the review type cursor, you can make choices.  I don't know if the fly out reference occurs any other times, but this is where i get it in Window 8.1.



On 5/13/2016 7:16 AM, Gene wrote:
Flyout is a term long before Windows 10.  I don't recall technically what a flyout is but I've seen the term network flyout when I issue an incompatible command to open the connection manager in the System Tray.  I don't know if the term is used in other ways.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Brian's Mail list account
Sent: Friday, May 13, 2016 3:58 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Fly Outs?


so I've never come across these before.seems to be just in windows 10. What
are they and how does one interact with them exactly?

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
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--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


Re: Web Page navigation

Chris Mullins
 

Hi William

Glad to see you are getting to grips with NVDA but I thought a little more explanation of the capslock feature described by Gene would be of interest to you.  In explaining how to enter the NVDA menu and set the capslock checkbox, Gene said to press Insert + n to display the NVDA menu.  Having set the checkbox and saved the settings, the Capslock key now works the same as the Insert key for the purpose of entering NVDA commands, as it is now an NVDA modifier key.  This is great for touch typists as you now have an NVDA modifier key either side of the keyboard, so for example you could now use the Capslock + n combination to open the NVDA menu.  Pressing the key twice quickly enables the Capslock key to perform its usual function.

 

Cheers

Chris

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of willmac@...
Sent: 17 May 2016 09:19
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation

 

Thanks Gene.  This exactly what I want. An action to turn CAPS LOCK on or off to allow me to type text with Caps Lock off and after wards putting CAP LOCK on again.

 Thank you.

 

William

 

------ Original Message ------

From: "Gene" <gsasner@...>

Sent: 2016/05/16 5:47:35 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation

It sounds as though you are doing better in working with web pages.  That's good. 

 

I'm not sure what you want to do.  If you want to disable the caps lock key so that pressing it does nothing, that is not an NVDA setting.  But you can set NVDA so that the caps lock has to be pressed twice quickly to keep it from turning on or off. 

 

Issue the command insert n.  You can use either insert.

Down arrow to preferences.  Press enter.

Down arrow to keyboard settings.

Press enter.

Tab to the check box that says some thing like use caps lock as modifier.

Press the space bar to check the check box, then press enter.

You are now back where you started.  The dialog has closed.

Now issue the command insert control c to save the setting permanently.  You will hear something like configuration saved.  This will save all your current settings so be sure you haven't changed anything else that you don't want changed permanently. 

 

Gene

 

 

Sent: Monday, May 16, 2016 9:45 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation

 

 

Hi Gene,

 

At last I seem to have gone a stage further. You will not believe the effort I put into this.

 

As far as I can ascertain, I followed your tutorial faithfully.  What I did NOT do was give the keystroke "down arrow" time to work through the various options before it started reading.

 

Thank you for your patience and help.

Regards.

William.

PS. Is there a shortcut key to turn off Caps Lock while using NVDA

 

 

 

 

 

------ Original Message ------

From: "Gene" <gsasner@...>

Sent: 2016/05/13 6:38:08 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation

This is like a very short tutorial.  Trying what I describe may help you understand and work with what we have been discussing.

 

Let's use this very nonstandard web page to get to a much more typical one.  Open the page, make sure you are at the top with the command control home.

Now tab to the first story.  The first news story is:

Solidarity launches class action against GEPF

Follow that link by pressing enter.

You will be taken to the page with the story.  Starting at the top of the page, press h.  That will move you to a heading and as you continue to press it, you will be moved to other headings.  The heading that is the title of the story is where the article begins.  If you start reading from there by down arrowing or by using the read to end command, you will start hearing the article.  If you stop reading and press h two or three more times, you will see a heading that says your next story.  There will be a link to the next story either above or below the heading.  A heading is written using a different format to draw the reader's eye to the text of the heading.  You don't do anything with a heading except read it.  You would expect the link to be below the heading since the heading is not a link.  And if you down arrow, you will find the link.  You may find on some sites, that you have to up arrow, but usually, if the heading is not the link, you would down arrow. 

 

Gene

From: Gene

Sent: Friday, May 13, 2016 10:16 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation

 

This message is long but I'm not sure the material could have been adequately covered in a shorter message.

 

The site you are discussing is not a typical Internet site. 

First a comment or two about structures in general.  You don't open headings.  You move to them.  You follow links by pressing enter on them.  But the site you are working with has nothing but links.  That is very nonstandard.  Go to the page you asked about.  Either start reading or if you just want to see links on this page, start tabbing.  Follow links by pressing enter.  If you want to learn to work with the commands you are trying to work with, use a conventionally formatted site.  Lots of sites are more or less conventionally formatted.  But this site is so nonstandard that we can tell you how to work with this site but it is not representative of most other sites. 

 

Here is more information. 

 

On the page you gave a link for, most quick navigation keys will only give you messages such as no next heading or no next button, etc.  That's because there are none and wherever you are on the page, there are none below where you are.  The commands such as h move to the next heading below your current position.  On this page, no matter where you are, there are no headings below where you are.  There is nothing anywhere on the page but links and text. 

even at the top of the page moving down the entire page, there are none. 

 

All such commands, b for button, x for check box, etc. look for what they are supposed to look for moving down the page.  If they find what they are looking for, they move you to it.  If they don't find anything, you will stay where you are on the page.

 

I would suggest you get an NVDA tutorial and listen to sections you consider important.  A very well thought of tutorial is available here:

If you look through the page, you will see how it is organized and you will get an idea of what you want to listen to.  Some people learn better using written material but many people prefer tutorials and if you do, this is a good one.

 

As far as how the keys work in general, I don't know how many sites you've tried them on.  If you go to a more or less standard site, you should get responses from many of the keys. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

 

Sent: Friday, May 13, 2016 9:01 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation

 

Hi Gene & Brian.

 

First of all in response to an earlier reference from Gene I must state categorically that I am a complete novice as regards NVDA.

I have heard the term "there are more than one way to skin a cat".  Well I am present not able to skin any cat.

I have read thru quite a bit of the short cut keys and they do not react to the way I expect.

 

That is why i submitted my originally URL http://t.digitalnewspaper.co.za/nl/jsp/m.jsp?c=%40fjNSuVTurK7VzhMSOxyzIucXl%2BKsnii1IrXYxuvhTwY%3D which I list again. Gene went to a lot of trouble detailing certain key strokes. However en this led to all sort of results.

I am not all interested in any  k links. If at all possible would it not be possible to give me the simplest method,  At this stage I am only interested in opening the headings and would want the key strokes required to read such articles continuously to the end.  Is this possible?.

 

Regards,

William

 

 

 

------ Original Message ------

From: "Brian Vogel" <britechguy@...>

Sent: 2016/05/12 6:15:20 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation

Gene,

           When the format of a given specific webpage is known, and in this case it is known to be nothing more than a list of links to articles, I don't think it's a disservice to anyone who cannot see to state that fact and to tell them that for this particular page using an elements list is the way to go.

           I'm not trying to teach general principles here, but to help someone get through a very specific webpage, and its child pages.

           And, yes, that's my opinion when I have a specific case under discussion, not a "how would one best go about this in the general case of an unfamiliar page."  Even then I'd encourage someone to give the elements list a look to get a quick snapshot regarding what links, headers, or landmarks might or might not be present.  There's more than one way to skin a cat.

Brian
-- 

Never underestimate the difficulty of changing false beliefs by facts. 

   ~ Henry Rosovsky

    

 


Re: What is the status of the NV access podcast?

Ben J. Bloomgren
 

Hi Kevin, you're right. I misquoted the year of the podcast. I do see ten episodes, and it does go back to 23 November, 2015.


Ben


On 5/16/2016 03:52, Kevin Cussick via Groups.io wrote:
Hello, you are correct there at 10 podcasts. Refresh your podcast client and hopefully it will show up good luck.

On 16 May 2016, at 08:51, Bhavya shah <bhavya.shah125@...> wrote:

Hi Ben,
You might want to recheck. I am pretty certain there was at least one
more podcast after November 2014, perhaps two.
There are ten in total, if I am not incorrect, and with structural
reformations and additions being made to NV Access as informed, one
may be on its way, as Quentin too pointed out, after that is maybe
done. Just speculating.
Thanks.

On 5/16/16, Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...> wrote:
That I think was mentioned in one of the audio presentations in the con,
ehre it was stated that if more people were hired more of this kind of thing

could be made to help with communication and real world demos so people
could get a feel for any new ideas and chat about them on here or wherever.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Quentin Christensen" <quentin@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2016 1:41 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] What is the status of the NV access podcast?


Hi Ben,

We have been a bit negligent with the NV Access podcast. We haven't
abandoned it though and are planning to revive it shortly.

Hang in there, we'll be back!

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Mon, May 16, 2016 at 10:35 AM, Ben J. Bloomgren
<bbloomgren@...>
wrote:

Hi all,

I'm going through my Downcast, and I'm clearing old podcasts. I come up
on
the NV access podcast, and it doesn't have anything since November 2014.
Being that this is the 10th anniversary of NVDA, I'm wondering if that
podcast is even being used anymore. Should I delete it, or should I keep

it
for future use? I was surprised, being that NVDA Con just ended, it
leads
me to wonder.

Stay warm,

Ben


--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Ph +61 7 3149 3306
Direct: +61 413 904 383
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess


--
Warm Regards
Bhavya Shah
Using NVDA (Non Visual Desktop Access) free and open source screen
reader for Microsoft Windows
To download a copy of the free screen reader NVDA, please visit
http://www.nvaccess.org/
Using Google Talkback on Motorolla G second generation Lollipop 5.0.2
Reach me through the following means:
Mobile: +91 7506221750
E-mail id: bhavya.shah125@...
Skype id : bhavya.09



---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


Re: NVDA and tghe new iTunes V 12.4

Clare Page <clare.page@...>
 

Hi!
I've downloaded iTunes 12.4 and have used it a little bit today for test purposes, using NVDA on my Windows 7 computer: iTunes didn't freeze while I purchased a song to test the store, nor when I briefly entered the "for you" tab in Apple Music. I usually use Apple Music on my iPhone, not on the PC, so I probably won't go into that any more on my computer, but I do use the store in iTunes for Windows to buy songs, which sometimes caused freezing on this computer in the previous version, but not all the time.
My biggest frustration with the new iTunes is navigation, which has supposedly improved, according to Apple. When scrolling down lists, such as what's in my music library, NVDA doesn't automatically read the next item in the list for me as it used to, I have to use the Read Current Line keystroke instead. I also had a lot of frustration getting back to my entire library after exploring within My Music to see where my playlists were now that there is no separate Playlists tab. There were a few random freezes in iTunes here while I was battling to show my whole music library again, but maybe I was doing things too fast or making some other error which caused those freezes, they may not happen to everyone. Here's hoping I can soon get used to the new layout, even though I doubt there's a solution to the scrolling problem I described above.
I probably can't roll back to an older iTunes version,as 12.3.3 may no longer be compatible with IOS 9.3.2, but with any luck I should find workarounds for my slight frustrations with this new version, even if that means minimizing my use of iTunes on the PC, something which can easily be done for a lot of things as I can buy and play music and manage playlists on my iPhone anyway, so I mostly need iTunes for backups.
There ya go, tthose are my comments about iTunes 12.4, and it'll be interesting to see if others find it frustrating and still prone to freezing.
Bye for now!
From Clare

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Lino Morales
Sent: lundi 16 mai 2016 23:12
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] NVDA and tghe new iTunes V 12.4

Has anyone downloaded iTunes V 12.4 yet? I've not cause I'm sill downloading IOS 9.3.2. If so is NVDA sill freezing sing the iTunes Store and Apple Muisc?


Anti-Virus

Andrea Sherry
 

Opinions about the most accessible with NVDA.

Does not have to be freeware. In fact I would prefer a paid for program.

Any suggestions please.

Andrea


--
Though no one can go back and make a brand new start, anyone can start from now and make a brand new ending." - Carl Brad


Re: Web Page navigation

willmac@lantic.net
 

Thanks Gene.  This exactly what I want. An action to turn CAPS LOCK on or off to allow me to type text with Caps Lock off and after wards putting CAP LOCK on again.
 Thank you.
 
William
 

------ Original Message ------
From: "Gene" <gsasner@...>
Sent: 2016/05/16 5:47:35 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation
It sounds as though you are doing better in working with web pages.  That's good. 
 
I'm not sure what you want to do.  If you want to disable the caps lock key so that pressing it does nothing, that is not an NVDA setting.  But you can set NVDA so that the caps lock has to be pressed twice quickly to keep it from turning on or off. 
 
Issue the command insert n.  You can use either insert.
Down arrow to preferences.  Press enter.
Down arrow to keyboard settings.
Press enter.
Tab to the check box that says some thing like use caps lock as modifier.
Press the space bar to check the check box, then press enter.
You are now back where you started.  The dialog has closed.
Now issue the command insert control c to save the setting permanently.  You will hear something like configuration saved.  This will save all your current settings so be sure you haven't changed anything else that you don't want changed permanently. 
 
Gene
 

Sent: Monday, May 16, 2016 9:45 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation

 
Hi Gene,
 
At last I seem to have gone a stage further. You will not believe the effort I put into this.
 
As far as I can ascertain, I followed your tutorial faithfully.  What I did NOT do was give the keystroke "down arrow" time to work through the various options before it started reading.
 
Thank you for your patience and help.
Regards.
William.
PS. Is there a shortcut key to turn off Caps Lock while using NVDA
 
 
 
 
 
------ Original Message ------
From: "Gene" <gsasner@...>
Sent: 2016/05/13 6:38:08 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation
This is like a very short tutorial.  Trying what I describe may help you understand and work with what we have been discussing.
 
Let's use this very nonstandard web page to get to a much more typical one.  Open the page, make sure you are at the top with the command control home.
Now tab to the first story.  The first news story is:
Solidarity launches class action against GEPF
Follow that link by pressing enter.
You will be taken to the page with the story.  Starting at the top of the page, press h.  That will move you to a heading and as you continue to press it, you will be moved to other headings.  The heading that is the title of the story is where the article begins.  If you start reading from there by down arrowing or by using the read to end command, you will start hearing the article.  If you stop reading and press h two or three more times, you will see a heading that says your next story.  There will be a link to the next story either above or below the heading.  A heading is written using a different format to draw the reader's eye to the text of the heading.  You don't do anything with a heading except read it.  You would expect the link to be below the heading since the heading is not a link.  And if you down arrow, you will find the link.  You may find on some sites, that you have to up arrow, but usually, if the heading is not the link, you would down arrow. 
 
Gene
From: Gene
Sent: Friday, May 13, 2016 10:16 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation

This message is long but I'm not sure the material could have been adequately covered in a shorter message.
 
The site you are discussing is not a typical Internet site. 
First a comment or two about structures in general.  You don't open headings.  You move to them.  You follow links by pressing enter on them.  But the site you are working with has nothing but links.  That is very nonstandard.  Go to the page you asked about.  Either start reading or if you just want to see links on this page, start tabbing.  Follow links by pressing enter.  If you want to learn to work with the commands you are trying to work with, use a conventionally formatted site.  Lots of sites are more or less conventionally formatted.  But this site is so nonstandard that we can tell you how to work with this site but it is not representative of most other sites. 
 
Here is more information. 
 
On the page you gave a link for, most quick navigation keys will only give you messages such as no next heading or no next button, etc.  That's because there are none and wherever you are on the page, there are none below where you are.  The commands such as h move to the next heading below your current position.  On this page, no matter where you are, there are no headings below where you are.  There is nothing anywhere on the page but links and text. 
even at the top of the page moving down the entire page, there are none. 
 
All such commands, b for button, x for check box, etc. look for what they are supposed to look for moving down the page.  If they find what they are looking for, they move you to it.  If they don't find anything, you will stay where you are on the page.
 
I would suggest you get an NVDA tutorial and listen to sections you consider important.  A very well thought of tutorial is available here:
If you look through the page, you will see how it is organized and you will get an idea of what you want to listen to.  Some people learn better using written material but many people prefer tutorials and if you do, this is a good one.
 
As far as how the keys work in general, I don't know how many sites you've tried them on.  If you go to a more or less standard site, you should get responses from many of the keys. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----

Sent: Friday, May 13, 2016 9:01 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation

Hi Gene & Brian.
 
First of all in response to an earlier reference from Gene I must state categorically that I am a complete novice as regards NVDA.
I have heard the term "there are more than one way to skin a cat".  Well I am present not able to skin any cat.
I have read thru quite a bit of the short cut keys and they do not react to the way I expect.
 
That is why i submitted my originally URL http://t.digitalnewspaper.co.za/nl/jsp/m.jsp?c=%40fjNSuVTurK7VzhMSOxyzIucXl%2BKsnii1IrXYxuvhTwY%3D which I list again. Gene went to a lot of trouble detailing certain key strokes. However en this led to all sort of results.
I am not all interested in any  k links. If at all possible would it not be possible to give me the simplest method,  At this stage I am only interested in opening the headings and would want the key strokes required to read such articles continuously to the end.  Is this possible?.
 
Regards,

William
 
 
 
------ Original Message ------
From: "Brian Vogel" <britechguy@...>
Sent: 2016/05/12 6:15:20 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation

Gene,

           When the format of a given specific webpage is known, and in this case it is known to be nothing more than a list of links to articles, I don't think it's a disservice to anyone who cannot see to state that fact and to tell them that for this particular page using an elements list is the way to go.

           I'm not trying to teach general principles here, but to help someone get through a very specific webpage, and its child pages.

           And, yes, that's my opinion when I have a specific case under discussion, not a "how would one best go about this in the general case of an unfamiliar page."  Even then I'd encourage someone to give the elements list a look to get a quick snapshot regarding what links, headers, or landmarks might or might not be present.  There's more than one way to skin a cat.

Brian
-- 

Never underestimate the difficulty of changing false beliefs by facts. 
   ~ Henry Rosovsky

    



Textbox maxlength

mike@...
 

Hi all,

First of all I hope I am in the right forum to post a question like this, if not then could someone please point me in the right direction.

I am developing a web application that will have some braille display users.  The application will have several data entry pages and some fields will have a maxlength that will come into play.

Does anyone have any guidelines as to the best way to handle this for a screen reader / braille display?

Thanks in advance.

Mike


Re: Sighted instructins, was Fly Outsn?

 

Well for a while I used nero 5 that came with an old cd drive.
Then I used nero 6 but didn't like the locked express version so cracked that.
For a while I didn't upgrade, however after I got goldwave for cd extraction and cd burner xp for dvd/blueray/audio cd and data cd creation it solved my issues fully.

On 17/05/2016 7:54 p.m., Brian's Mail list account wrote:
I have a true call device and its files are stored on an sd card. A lot
of the ways to operate this software do not seem to have keyboard
shortcuts, and drag and drop is used here to do what in explorer we
would simply use copy for. Quite why software companies feel the need
toreinvent the wheel has always eluded me.


Another program from the past that had touse drag and drop was a version
of Nero, but I stopped using it when I found some much more intuitive
burners.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene" <gsasner@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2016 10:35 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Sighted instructins, was Fly Outsn?


Technically, I'm not sure why, but drag and drop are difficult for blind
people to work with. I have had to use drag and drop very rarely but
fortunately, there are usually other ways to accomplish tasks and, I
have seldom seen programs that require its use. I have seen some web
sites where something you want to do can't be done without drag and
drop. It appears to me that you can't do drag and drop while in browse
mode or the equivalent for JAWS, the Virtual PC cursor. You might be
able to do it when browse mode is off but that would depend on various
factors and I wouldn't count on it on a lot of pages.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Arianna Sepulveda
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2016 4:16 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Sighted instructins, was Fly Outsn?


Brian, now you have me curious. When are drag-and-drop operations
typically used? I'm planning on learning those commands for NVDA, but
would like to know when sited people typically use them. Well, not the
NVDA commands, ohbviously, but doing it with the mouse, so that I can
perform their keyboard equivalents. I also have JAWS, and plan to learn
the drag-and-drop keyboard equivalents for that screen reader, as well.




Thanks,
Ari

On May 16, 2016, at 9:22 AM, Brian Vogel <@britechguy> wrote:


We can all find instances of instructions that are completely unsuited
to a blind or visually-impaired computer user and I understand the
concerns there. The fact is, though, for at least 90% plus of the kinds
of questions I'm routinely seeing on these forums I can find the answer
with a quick web search and the instructions presented are step-by-step
of the open this dialog, click on this option, check the checkbox, hit
OK type. That's what I'm talking about.

I hope that people have noticed that I try my darndest to give "screen
reader terminology focused" instructions when writing for this
audience. At the same time I will continue to make the point that for
instructions that don't use an untranslatable visual component like,
"Click on the purple icon," but instead say something like, "Click on
the Adobe Reader icon," you really should be able to directly translate
this to, "Find, select, and activate the Adobe Reader Icon." Like so
many things, what may be involved in "Find, select, and activate" can
vary wildly depending on how a given user has his or her environment
configured.

Also, just to semi-defend the sighted tech support person who asks,
even after having been told you can't see, "Can you see the blue screen
to your right?," it's very easy to literally forget what you've been
told when you've been working with someone over the phone for a while
and the entire "script" you're used to using has been working, and
generally it will. It's not any sort of malice and, very often, it comes
about as a direct result of the proficiency of the individual asking for
support such that the tech literally forgets during the course of the
interaction that they're dealing with someone who can't see.

It makes perfect sense to remind someone, gently at first but with more
force as they persist in giving instructions that you can't use after
they've been told, that you can't see and that they need to adjust the
instructions accordingly. It's a real challenge at times, particularly
for actions such as "drag and drop" that can be emulated via the
keyboard but that most people, including screen reader users, have no
idea how to do with the keyboard. This happens to be one of those
things that I constantly forget because it can most frequently be worked
around but, on very rare occasions, it can't and I have to figure out
how it's done with the screen reader commands again.

It should come as no surprise, though, that some materials written for
the Graphical User Interface environment will presume that the audience
is actually using the graphical user interface. It's the same kind of
"writing for your intended audience" that I think we all try to do as
much as possible.

Brian
--

Never underestimate the difficulty of changing false beliefs by facts.
~ Henry Rosovsky