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Re: I've had it with Firefox
Devin Prater
The latest Insider builds have showed down Windows a lot, even on the desktop, arrowing around is sluggish. This may just be an Insider issue, and I have reported feedback about it.
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liking nvda 2018,
Kenny Peyattt jr.
I am liking nvda 2018.2 It is faster than the previous version. Kenny Peyatt jr.
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Re: I've had it with Firefox
David Moore
Wow, Guys! I am using a little netbook, an HP Stream, and I only have a 2 Ghz processor, 2 gigs of ram, and I am using Chrome with the latest Windows 10, and Chrome Flies! It takes a second to open, and 2 seconds to open a large page! Maybe you should switch to Chrome. With Firefox Quantum, It is as slow as a snail on a much more powerful laptop I have! Just letting you know! David Moore Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2018 4:41 PM To: nvda list list Subject: Re: [nvda] I've had it with Firefox
32 gigs of ram, 4 ghz graphics card and a6 ghz processer. Windows 10 64 bit and the latest firefox quantum.
> On Jun 28, 2018, at 12:45 PM, bob jutzi <jutzi1@...> wrote: > > How much memory do you have in your system? I'm running a 3.7ghz Core i3, total of 12MB available, and Windows 10 64. Othre than a little lag when loading a page into Browse Mode, no new issues with V60 of Firefox. One annoying issue I've always had with FF is some sites, such as Pizzahut.com require setting Page Styles to None in order for all links to be recognized by NVDA. There may be workarounds for this, just not aware of them. I still prefer the Fox over Edge or Internet Exploder. > > On 6/28/2018 3:18 PM, Sarah k Alawami wrote: >> I have. And no I do not run firefox on the mac. I can't. But yeah firefox is snappy on my win 10 64 bit machine. >>> On Jun 28, 2018, at 11:31 AM, Lino Morales <linomorales001@... <mailto:linomorales001@...>> wrote: >>> >>> How slow is it for you? You are running a Mac right? Have you ran on an actual PC 64 bit running WIN 10? >>> Sent fromMail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>for Windows 10 >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> *From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io><nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>> on behalf of Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@... <mailto:marrie12@...>> >>> *Sent:*Thursday, June 28, 2018 2:29:17 PM >>> *To:*nvda list list >>> *Subject:*Re: [nvda] I've had it with Firefox >>> I'll sticke with FF Loving it over here. I go between that and chrome. >>> >>>> On Jun 28, 2018, at 10:46 AM, Lino Morales <linomorales001@... <mailto:linomorales001@...>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Well like I said in my subject line I’ve had I >>>> with firefox. Every site is slowith NVDa even the mobile FB site. I bit the bullet and downloaded Waterfox. Seems to work much better. May I’ll wait ti FF 70 and see how fast that will be. So long FF. Me and WF and Edge are good buddies. >>>> Sent fromMail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>for Windows 10 >>> > > > >
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Re: Making the virtual cursor and the actual screen content "track" with each other
Kevin Cussick
Does focus high light not do this? thanks if not sorry can't help.
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On 28/06/2018 04:56, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
I don't actually know if this is possible. That would be nice though.On Jun 27, 2018, at 6:46 PM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@... <mailto:britechguy@...>> wrote:
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Re: I've had it with Firefox
32 gigs of ram, 4 ghz graphics card and a6 ghz processer. Windows 10 64 bit and the latest firefox quantum.
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On Jun 28, 2018, at 12:45 PM, bob jutzi <jutzi1@...> wrote:
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Re: I've had it with Firefox
Lino Morales <linomorales001@...>
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of bob jutzi <jutzi1@...>
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2018 3:45:05 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] I've had it with Firefox How much memory do you have in your system? I'm running a 3.7ghz Core
i3, total of 12MB available, and Windows 10 64. Othre than a little lag when loading a page into Browse Mode, no new issues with V60 of Firefox. One annoying issue I've always had with FF is some sites, such as Pizzahut.com require setting Page Styles to None in order for all links to be recognized by NVDA. There may be workarounds for this, just not aware of them. I still prefer the Fox over Edge or Internet Exploder. On 6/28/2018 3:18 PM, Sarah k Alawami wrote: > I have. And no I do not run firefox on the mac. I can't. But yeah > firefox is snappy on my win 10 64 bit machine. > >> On Jun 28, 2018, at 11:31 AM, Lino Morales <linomorales001@... >> <mailto:linomorales001@...>> wrote: >> >> How slow is it for you? You are running a Mac right? Have you ran on >> an actual PC 64 bit running WIN 10? >> Sent fromMail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>for >> Windows 10 >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> *From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io >> <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io><nvda@nvda.groups.io >> <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>> on behalf of Sarah k Alawami >> <marrie12@... <mailto:marrie12@...>> >> *Sent:*Thursday, June 28, 2018 2:29:17 PM >> *To:*nvda list list >> *Subject:*Re: [nvda] I've had it with Firefox >> I'll sticke with FF Loving it over here. I go between that and chrome. >> >>> On Jun 28, 2018, at 10:46 AM, Lino Morales <linomorales001@... >>> <mailto:linomorales001@...>> wrote: >>> >>> Well like I said in my subject line I’ve had I >>> with firefox. Every site is slowith NVDa even the mobile FB site. I >>> bit the bullet and downloaded Waterfox. Seems to work much better. >>> May I’ll wait ti FF 70 and see how fast that will be. So long FF. Me >>> and WF and Edge are good buddies. >>> Sent fromMail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>for >>> Windows 10 >> > >
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Re: I've had it with Firefox
Gene
I've seen contradictory reports over time.
Speed seems to vary based on unknown factors, even when the same version of
Windows is being used.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Lino Morales
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2018 2:25 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've had it with Firefox From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Sarah
k Alawami <marrie12@...>
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2018 3:18:18 PM To: nvda list list Subject: Re: [nvda] I've had it with Firefox I have. And no I do not run firefox on the mac. I
can't. But yeah firefox is snappy on my win 10 64 bit
machine.
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Re: Making the virtual cursor and the actual screen content "track" with each other
Gene
It isn't clear to me what the problem Is with the
part of the Amazon page you were discussing. One thing I noticed was for
one item, there were links for different battery life. One or two of the
time ranges weren't links. but is that because they don't apply?
. I saw the sections you were discussing and I could see the check boxes
and check them. I didn't try to submit a search but I found a submit
button. The page is certainly very complex, but I could get a pretty good
feel for the page by reading some of it, after using the skip blocks of links
command, I don't remember if I used it once or twice. After that, I went
to the top, and tried moving by headings, with h, and by separator, with
s. At least with Chrome, there were lots of
headings and no separators.
I didn't make a really thorough study so I don't
kno if I missed anything important but I think I got, by moving in these ways,
and reading more where something caught my attention, a reasonably good idea of
what was on the page without having to read the entire page. But I don't
know if that responds to what you were discussing. To a blind person, the
column you see as on the left side of the page is simply seen as a lot of links
and check boxes with a button here and there. But that's my point.
If a sighted instructor is telling a blind person how to work with a page, the
instructor shouldn't say, the check box is on the right side of the page,
because for a blind person it isn't, or the submit or go button is on the left
side of the page, because to a blind person it isn't. The page is
displayed as one long downward format with everything under everything else, if
you are moving from the top.
A knowledgeable instructor would know that but if
friends or unknowledgeable people were helping, they might get a better idea of
how to help if they could see the page as a blind person encounters it.
A blind person with enough knowledge and experience
will expect unknowledgeable sighted people to give orientation information that
is interesting but worthless, such as this or that is on the right side of the
page. The person will use the find command or some other quick navigation
command or commands. but for those, sighted and blind, who are not
knowledgeable, being able to see the page as a blind person does might be of
real benefit.
A good instructor would show the person how to move
on pages using such commands as h for heading, b for button, and try to show the
person when skimming a page will suffice and when reading some or a lot of it is
either necessary or a good idea. In the case of this page, much more
complex than usual, but an interesting case, I don't know if I would have looked
far enough to see the ways to define the search you spoke of. Since I
knew they were there from your description, I can't say how I would have
looked at the page if I hadn't known about them..
I'm not sure what problemns you are having working
witht check boxes you discussed. I tried checking one with the space
bar. the page reloaded and showed results with the restriction imposed
when the check box is checked. If the page is supposed to allow you to
check multiple check boxes without reloding until you check multiple ones, then
you do something to make the page reload, I'm not sure if or how that can be
done from the keyboard. I don't know if that is what you have in mind as a
problem.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2018 1:28 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Making the virtual cursor and the actual screen
content "track" with each other Yes, but I'm saying that I don't know how useful it will be unless the screen is shown as a blind person finds it, with whatever is reformated in the buffer displayed as reformatted and not the screen displayed as it appears to the sighted user.And that would be useful to be able to pull up as well, were the "tracking" between what the sighted user sees and the screen reader user has access to. I guess what I'm getting at is that the virtual buffer itself is not visual in nature and, in fact, could be very difficult to search for whatever it is that corresponds to what is shown on certain parts of the screen. I'll give two pages that can be used as illustrations of what I'm talking about: https://smile.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_2_7?url=search-alias%3Delectronics&field-keywords=car+gps&sprefix=car+gps%2Caps%2C204&crid=3PV9DKR2H61VR https://www.mcmaster.com/#cargo-tie-downs/=1dgh5vs On the Amazon page, there is a column presented visually at the left that has the phrase "Show results for" followed by a long list of links that allow you to further narrow your search after your initial criteria were applied. After the list of links is a section headed by the phrase "Refine by" followed by a collection of checkboxes, followed by another collection of links, followed by another collection of checkboxes. I have still not figured out how to force a screen reader, whether JAWS or NVDA, to gain focus on that section of the webpage at all and interact with it. I've got to try again with NVDA and mouse tracking just to see if I can figure out another plan of attack, but that requires that what's reported to me via the mouse tracking feature somehow correspond to something I can successfully search for with the screen reader search. Not that the readership here does not already realize this, but accessibility on certain webpages is much more complicated than it is on others. Since I can see I work at it from what do I see and hear when I interact with specific elements and then, how to I get the screen reader to do the same thing. Sometimes that's utterly straightforward but in the Amazon product search results presented above it's absolutely not. The McMaster Carr page is another example of my having a hellish time of figuring out how to access via screen reader what's immediately obvious when looking at the page. I don't expect anyone to "feel my pain." At the same time, when I'm working with a client and a screen reader is merrily tooling along reading the screen, announcing elements, etc., which I cannot see and where understanding "the lay of the land" is otherwise important it's frustrating, and it impedes my ability to give accurate instructions about what to do next. A dear friend of mine who's now 80 and been blind since birth has said to me, on more than one occasion, "Sometimes, there's no substitute for sight," and that's the absolute truth. Even when it isn't the absolute truth, its astounding how it can contribute to rapidly finding an accessibility solution when trial and error via screen reader to do the same could take a very, very long time and perhaps still not yield results were it not for a real stroke of luck. -- Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong. ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore
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Re: How to make things worse by trying to fix stuff!
Tony Ballou
Hi,
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Oh my goodness! I wish I had an answer of some sort for you, but this one has me even scratching my head mate. I'll send this round to my contacts in the tech world and see if they can find out some answers. Tony
On 6/27/2018 2:54 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
Now as many here will know, I am not stupid, well debatable in some
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Re: I've had it with Firefox
bob jutzi <jutzi1@...>
How much memory do you have in your system? I'm running a 3.7ghz Core i3, total of 12MB available, and Windows 10 64. Othre than a little lag when loading a page into Browse Mode, no new issues with V60 of Firefox. One annoying issue I've always had with FF is some sites, such as Pizzahut.com require setting Page Styles to None in order for all links to be recognized by NVDA. There may be workarounds for this, just not aware of them. I still prefer the Fox over Edge or Internet Exploder.
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On 6/28/2018 3:18 PM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
I have. And no I do not run firefox on the mac. I can't. But yeah firefox is snappy on my win 10 64 bit machine.On Jun 28, 2018, at 11:31 AM, Lino Morales <linomorales001@... <mailto:linomorales001@...>> wrote:
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Re: I've had it with Firefox
Lino Morales <linomorales001@...>
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@...>
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2018 3:37:55 PM To: nvda list list Subject: Re: [nvda] I've had it with Firefox Yeah I'm not. I'm on what ever was released last Tuesday or updates for the public. It's quite fast here, but the 32 gigs of ram probably help a bit. I woudl just check for updates and stuff.
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Re: I've had it with Firefox
Yeah I'm not. I'm on what ever was released last Tuesday or updates for the public. It's quite fast here, but the 32 gigs of ram probably help a bit. I woudl just check for updates and stuff.
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Re: I've had it with Firefox
Lino Morales <linomorales001@...>
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@...>
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2018 3:18:18 PM To: nvda list list Subject: Re: [nvda] I've had it with Firefox I have. And no I do not run firefox on the mac. I can't. But yeah firefox is snappy on my win 10 64 bit machine.
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Re: I've had it with Firefox
I have. And no I do not run firefox on the mac. I can't. But yeah firefox is snappy on my win 10 64 bit machine.
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Re: Can't uise the NVDA menus
John J. Boyer
That was a typo. I meant 2018.1.1. Those typols will kill me someday!
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John
On Thu, Jun 28, 2018 at 05:52:34PM +0000, Lino Morales wrote:
Hi John. Why are you on NVDA 2017? Do you have an old XP machine? --
John J. Boyer Email: john.boyer@... website: http://www.abilitiessoft.org Status: Company dissolved but website and email addresses live. Location: Madison, Wisconsin, USA Mission: developing assistive technology software and providing STEM services that are available at no cost
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Re: I've had it with Firefox
Lino Morales <linomorales001@...>
How slow is it for you? You are running a Mac right? Have you ran on an actual PC 64 bit running WIN 10?
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@...>
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2018 2:29:17 PM To: nvda list list Subject: Re: [nvda] I've had it with Firefox I'll sticke with FF Loving it over here. I go between that and chrome.
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Re: I've had it with Firefox
I'll sticke with FF Loving it over here. I go between that and chrome.
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Re: Making the virtual cursor and the actual screen content "track" with each other
On Thu, Jun 28, 2018 at 10:13 am, Gene wrote:
Yes, but I'm saying that I don't know how useful it will be unless the screen is shown as a blind person finds it, with whatever is reformated in the buffer displayed as reformatted and not the screen displayed as it appears to the sighted user.And that would be useful to be able to pull up as well, were the "tracking" between what the sighted user sees and the screen reader user has access to. I guess what I'm getting at is that the virtual buffer itself is not visual in nature and, in fact, could be very difficult to search for whatever it is that corresponds to what is shown on certain parts of the screen. I'll give two pages that can be used as illustrations of what I'm talking about: https://smile.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_2_7?url=search-alias%3Delectronics&field-keywords=car+gps&sprefix=car+gps%2Caps%2C204&crid=3PV9DKR2H61VR https://www.mcmaster.com/#cargo-tie-downs/=1dgh5vs On the Amazon page, there is a column presented visually at the left that has the phrase "Show results for" followed by a long list of links that allow you to further narrow your search after your initial criteria were applied. After the list of links is a section headed by the phrase "Refine by" followed by a collection of checkboxes, followed by another collection of links, followed by another collection of checkboxes. I have still not figured out how to force a screen reader, whether JAWS or NVDA, to gain focus on that section of the webpage at all and interact with it. I've got to try again with NVDA and mouse tracking just to see if I can figure out another plan of attack, but that requires that what's reported to me via the mouse tracking feature somehow correspond to something I can successfully search for with the screen reader search. Not that the readership here does not already realize this, but accessibility on certain webpages is much more complicated than it is on others. Since I can see I work at it from what do I see and hear when I interact with specific elements and then, how to I get the screen reader to do the same thing. Sometimes that's utterly straightforward but in the Amazon product search results presented above it's absolutely not. The McMaster Carr page is another example of my having a hellish time of figuring out how to access via screen reader what's immediately obvious when looking at the page. I don't expect anyone to "feel my pain." At the same time, when I'm working with a client and a screen reader is merrily tooling along reading the screen, announcing elements, etc., which I cannot see and where understanding "the lay of the land" is otherwise important it's frustrating, and it impedes my ability to give accurate instructions about what to do next. A dear friend of mine who's now 80 and been blind since birth has said to me, on more than one occasion, "Sometimes, there's no substitute for sight," and that's the absolute truth. Even when it isn't the absolute truth, its astounding how it can contribute to rapidly finding an accessibility solution when trial and error via screen reader to do the same could take a very, very long time and perhaps still not yield results were it not for a real stroke of luck. -- Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong. ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore
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Re: Can't uise the NVDA menus
Lino Morales <linomorales001@...>
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of John J. Boyer <john.boyer@...>
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2018 1:49:24 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: [nvda] Can't uise the NVDA menus Hello,
I am using an Acer Swift 3 notebook with Windows 10 home and NVDA 2017.1.1. Either the configuration or NVDA itself has become corrupted. Many menu items don't work and it is delivering messages about no headings at Level 1. I can't reset it to factory defaults, assuming that works, because it would go to no Braille and I couldn't use the machine at all. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks, John -- John J. Boyer Email: john.boyer@... website: http://www.abilitiessoft.org Status: Company dissolved but website and email addresses live. Location: Madison, Wisconsin, USA Mission: developing assistive technology software and providing STEM services that are available at no cost
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Can't uise the NVDA menus
John J. Boyer
Hello,
I am using an Acer Swift 3 notebook with Windows 10 home and NVDA 2017.1.1. Either the configuration or NVDA itself has become corrupted. Many menu items don't work and it is delivering messages about no headings at Level 1. I can't reset it to factory defaults, assuming that works, because it would go to no Braille and I couldn't use the machine at all. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks, John -- John J. Boyer Email: john.boyer@... website: http://www.abilitiessoft.org Status: Company dissolved but website and email addresses live. Location: Madison, Wisconsin, USA Mission: developing assistive technology software and providing STEM services that are available at no cost
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