---

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mark
Sent: Saturday, July 7, 2018 6:27 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA 18.2.1 and bluetooth audio issue

 

Hi yes I have the same problem,

Using the latest version of NVDA and windows 10

With all updates

If I have my NVDA coming out of  my speakers

And I am  listening to music through my blue tooth headset

Soon as I switch over my Bluetooth headset to  NVDA I lose all sound

Mark.

 

Tune in to the number one station on the web TAFN radio
http://tafn.org.uk/listen
Or for our catch up service on demand http://www.tafn.org.uk/on-demand
or for our upcoming weekly schedule
http://www.tafn.org.uk/radio
part of the accessible friends network
www.tafn.org.uk
Registered UK Charity: #1108043.
Sent from Windows 10 Mail.

 

 

As of release 18 I have been having issues pushing NVDA output to my Bluetooth headphones on my Windows 10 laptop. All audio output from the laptop is successfully sent to the headset (including JAWS output) except for NVDA which plays from the laptop speakers. Interestingly enough, when I toggle the earphones off the audio stops playing on the desktop.

Has anyone else experienced a similar issue?

 

Chris O’Brien
Accessibility Officer
416-818-9411
ami.ca
Facebook | YouTube | Twitter

 

This email, including any attachments, is intended only for the person(s) to whom it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged information. Any unauthorized distribution, disclosure or use is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient of this email, please contact the sender and delete this email, including any attachments, immediately. Thank you.

---

This email, including any attachments, is intended only for the person(s) to whom it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged information. Any unauthorized distribution, disclosure or use is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient of this email, please contact the sender and delete this email, including any attachments, immediately. Thank you.

---

From: Chris O'Brien
Sent: 07 July 2018 22:31
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] NVDA 18.2.1 and bluetooth audio issue

 

As of release 18 I have been having issues pushing NVDA output to my Bluetooth headphones on my Windows 10 laptop. All audio output from the laptop is successfully sent to the headset (including JAWS output) except for NVDA which plays from the laptop speakers. Interestingly enough, when I toggle the earphones off the audio stops playing on the desktop.

Has anyone else experienced a similar issue?

 

Chris O’Brien
Accessibility Officer
416-818-9411
ami.ca
Facebook | YouTube | Twitter

 

This email, including any attachments, is intended only for the person(s) to whom it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged information. Any unauthorized distribution, disclosure or use is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient of this email, please contact the sender and delete this email, including any attachments, immediately. Thank you.

---

If you can't line up properly when in forms mode, then this is a firefox problem because when not in browse mode, you are interacting directly with the page.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Christopher-Mark Gilland

Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2018 5:06 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] I've had it with Firefox

OK, Gene, so, I just tested even with NVDA doing as you said, and yeah, that isn't working either. I can't even give you a particular site to test, as it's happening 95% of the time regardless the URL.

Chris.

On 07/07/2018 06:00 PM, Gene wrote:

I'm not sure and since the thread now includes NVDA, I answered in another message concerning NVDA as well.  If the suggestions I made don't work, I'm not sure if I have other suggestions but since the topic has been broadened, my next answer is now on topic.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Christopher-Mark Gilland

Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2018 4:56 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] I've had it with Firefox

Gene, how in Thunderbird would I extract your personal e-mail address from your post to the list?

Seeing I was mainly discussing JAWS, not NVDA, I boobooed. I didn't read the e-mail headers correctly, and thought this was on a totally different list which sometimes discussez JFW. I consider my message further to be off topic for this list.

I'd like however to try your suggestion, and if it doesn't work, e-mail you privately so we can keep trouble shooting... that is... of course, if you're OK with that.

Alas, thank you for your help.

Chris.

On 07/07/2018 05:53 PM, Gene wrote:

With JAWS and not with NVDA?  Maybe you should use NVDA with Firefox for a time and JAWS with it only if necessary for some reason. 

 

Also, your problem may be that JAWS isn't lining up what is in the buffer with the actual control you want to work with.  Try the following:

Press the left mouse button instead of enter.  Don't route anything or change to any other cursor than the virtual PC cursor.  Just press the left mouse button instead of enter.

 

I have one or two other suggestions that might help but if this one solves the problem, trying the others won't be necessary.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Christopher-Mark Gilland

Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2018 4:47 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] I've had it with Firefox

I'm coming in on this thread extremely extremely late, so forgive me if
this's been already mentioned. I have managed to get so much mail in my
inbox these last few days of abscence, that I can't possibly go through
everything quickly.

One thing with JAWS 2018 and the latest build of Firefox 61 that I'm
seeing is an issue where you'll be on something which is clickable like
a link, or a dropdown, or something of sort. You either hit enter, or
space bar, and the stupid dad blamed thing either won't do anything at
all, or more 9 times out of 10, it will jump me focused on to my
taskbar. In fact, one time, I hit enter on a link, not even a mailto:
link, and the stupid thing opened my Windows 10 Mail app.

Excuse my language, but, what the hell!

Absolutely this didn't used to happen, and honestly, I can't remember
when it started. Ever since Firefox decided to go Quantom, things have
just totally totally gone down hill with it. I get that VFO is doing
their best with what they have to fix things, which I appreciate. In
their defense, I get totally that they're trying, but I wonder how much
of this is really VFO breaking things, vs. how much is Mozilla breaking
things. I'm inclined to think more the ladder.

I'm admittedly not the biggest fan of Chrome on the Windows platform,
maybe on Android, and on the mac, but not Windows. I'm not totally sure
why, but yeah... It's not something I can put my finger on. I just don't
care for it.

Anyway, I'd be curious if any of you all have seen this behavior as
well. I'm told that supposedly, I'm not the only one experiencing this.

Chris.

OK, Gene, so, I just tested even with NVDA doing as you said, and yeah, that isn't working either. I can't even give you a particular site to test, as it's happening 95% of the time regardless the URL.

Chris.

I'm not sure and since the thread now includes NVDA, I answered in another message concerning NVDA as well.  If the suggestions I made don't work, I'm not sure if I have other suggestions but since the topic has been broadened, my next answer is now on topic.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Christopher-Mark Gilland

Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2018 4:56 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] I've had it with Firefox

Gene, how in Thunderbird would I extract your personal e-mail address from your post to the list?

Seeing I was mainly discussing JAWS, not NVDA, I boobooed. I didn't read the e-mail headers correctly, and thought this was on a totally different list which sometimes discussez JFW. I consider my message further to be off topic for this list.

I'd like however to try your suggestion, and if it doesn't work, e-mail you privately so we can keep trouble shooting... that is... of course, if you're OK with that.

Alas, thank you for your help.

Chris.

On 07/07/2018 05:53 PM, Gene wrote:

With JAWS and not with NVDA?  Maybe you should use NVDA with Firefox for a time and JAWS with it only if necessary for some reason. 

 

Also, your problem may be that JAWS isn't lining up what is in the buffer with the actual control you want to work with.  Try the following:

Press the left mouse button instead of enter.  Don't route anything or change to any other cursor than the virtual PC cursor.  Just press the left mouse button instead of enter.

 

I have one or two other suggestions that might help but if this one solves the problem, trying the others won't be necessary.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Christopher-Mark Gilland

Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2018 4:47 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] I've had it with Firefox

I'm coming in on this thread extremely extremely late, so forgive me if
this's been already mentioned. I have managed to get so much mail in my
inbox these last few days of abscence, that I can't possibly go through
everything quickly.

One thing with JAWS 2018 and the latest build of Firefox 61 that I'm
seeing is an issue where you'll be on something which is clickable like
a link, or a dropdown, or something of sort. You either hit enter, or
space bar, and the stupid dad blamed thing either won't do anything at
all, or more 9 times out of 10, it will jump me focused on to my
taskbar. In fact, one time, I hit enter on a link, not even a mailto:
link, and the stupid thing opened my Windows 10 Mail app.

Excuse my language, but, what the hell!

Absolutely this didn't used to happen, and honestly, I can't remember
when it started. Ever since Firefox decided to go Quantom, things have
just totally totally gone down hill with it. I get that VFO is doing
their best with what they have to fix things, which I appreciate. In
their defense, I get totally that they're trying, but I wonder how much
of this is really VFO breaking things, vs. how much is Mozilla breaking
things. I'm inclined to think more the ladder.

I'm admittedly not the biggest fan of Chrome on the Windows platform,
maybe on Android, and on the mac, but not Windows. I'm not totally sure
why, but yeah... It's not something I can put my finger on. I just don't
care for it.

Anyway, I'd be curious if any of you all have seen this behavior as
well. I'm told that supposedly, I'm not the only one experiencing this.

Chris.

If you are seeing this behavior with NVDA and JAWS, it sounds as though Firefox isn't allowing the buffer to line up properly or to work properly with the control you are working with in the buffor.  Go to the control you want to work with, turn off the virtual PC cursor or browse mode, and read the current line to see where you are.  If you are in the right place, work with the control and see what happens.  If you want to move to the control, try doing so and work with it. 

 

There is almost no difference browsing between Firefox and Chrome.  If you explain specifically what you object to or have problems with, we might be able to help with the Chrome problems.

 

If it is too cumbersome to work with Firefox until the problem is corrected, itmight be worth trying to see what you object to in Chrome and how we might lessen or remove the problems. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Christopher-Mark Gilland

Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2018 4:48 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] I've had it with Firefox

Crap!


Forgive me.


I thought this was on the Win10 list, not NVDA.


This being said, I'm still seeing this as well with NVDA.


Pardon my carelessness.


Chris.


On 07/07/2018 01:48 PM, Lenron wrote:
> I must agree it works great for youTube
>
> On 7/7/18, Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@...> wrote:
>> I actually hate chrome on windows. I dunno what it is. It’s fast but to me
>> feels sticky and clunky. I will only use chrome for youtube as that’s when
>> it in my humble opinion works the best.
>>
>>> On Jul 7, 2018, at 1:29 AM, Angela Delicata <angeladelicata@...>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Firefox is too slow for me: i have abandoned it for Chrome which is far
>>> better and Ithink usable too.
>>>
>>> If you try Chrome, you will no longer want to use anything else.
>>> Just a suggestion of course.
>>>
>>> Il 06/07/2018 19:00, Dave Grossoehme ha scritto:
>>>> You could have a valid point on video cards or even sound cards.  It's
>>>> known that different processors make a difference on what software is
>>>> running
>>>>
>>>> Insider Dave
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 6/29/2018 4:52 AM, Ron Canazzi wrote:
>>>>> Hi Gene,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> This whole issue with Firefox is odd, but since I have seen no
>>>>> complaints about Firefox sluggishness or unresponsiveness from sighted
>>>>> people, the issue has to be somehow related to screen reader usage
>>>>> and/or the way JAWS, NVDA and other screen readers interface with
>>>>> Firefox under very complex conditions.  I am still wondering about video
>>>>> card or internal video chips conflicts. I know everyone at Freedom
>>>>> Scientific/VFO used to get mad at me when I worked for them every time
>>>>> something like this would happen with a program--wherein some people had
>>>>> no issues and others had several issues.  I would bring up video
>>>>> card/chip conflicts of issues and they would yell at me that all such
>>>>> issues involving screen readers (in the words of the old gospel song) it
>>>>> was all settled long ago.  Still, I wonder!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 6/29/2018 5:10 AM, Gene wrote:
>>>>>> this discussion needs perspective, in my opinion.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Which version of firefox is inefficient with memory?  According to a
>>>>>> review I read of the new Firefox, it is much more efficient with
>>>>>> memory.  and efficient or not, no browser is going to require that a
>>>>>> computer have 4 or 5gb of RAM to work.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> and the slowness is, as far as I can reasonably infer, because of
>>>>>> unresolved accessibility issues.  Since there are very conflicting
>>>>>> reports, with some people being very pleased with the new Firefox and
>>>>>> others not, we'll have to see how things work out over time.  Something
>>>>>> unknown is evidently causing a wide disparity.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you read reviews by sighted reviewers, the new Firefox is very fast
>>>>>> and is now a realistic competitor to Chrome.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regarding privacy, according to one or two reviews, Firefox is now
>>>>>> better at protecting privacy, or providing options to do so, than
>>>>>> Chrome.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Waterfox is based on an ESR version of Firefox.  it's a small operation
>>>>>> and how well it will keep up with security fixes that are necessary is,
>>>>>> as far as I can see, not known.  How will it keep up in general?  If it
>>>>>> bases itself on ESR versions of Firefox, and with a new ESR version of
>>>>>> Firefox coming out within about a week or less, are all the advantages
>>>>>> you like in Waterfox going to disappear?  the new ESR version of
>>>>>> firefox, on which Waterfox is based, will be a quantum version.  We'll
>>>>>> see what it is like and how people comment on it here.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There is, at present, far too much that isn't known about future
>>>>>> developments.  A strong antiFirefox bias predisposes against making the
>>>>>> best choices in future and may cause people not to pay attention to
>>>>>> future developments as soon as they might, thus, perhaps, delaying
>>>>>> benefiting from future advantages.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Gene
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
>>>>>> <mailto:bglists@...>
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, June 29, 2018 3:31 AM
>>>>>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nvda] I've had it with Firefox
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Blimey, I only have 8 gigs of ram. You can with the resource monitor
>>>>>> add on
>>>>>> see very clearly that Firefox is not very efficient at processor or
>>>>>> memory
>>>>>> use most of the time. I have an I5 and its been unthrottled too.
>>>>>>   Brian
>>>>>>
>>>>>> bglists@... <mailto:bglists@...>
>>>>>> Sent via blueyonder.
>>>>>> Please address personal E-mail to:-
>>>>>> briang1@... <mailto:briang1@...>, putting
>>>>>> 'Brian Gaff'
>>>>>> in the display name field.
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Sarah k Alawami" <marrie12@...
>>>>>> <mailto:marrie12@...>>
>>>>>> To: "nvda list list" <nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>>>>> <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>>
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2018 8:37 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nvda] I've had it with Firefox
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yeah I'm not. I'm on what ever was released last Tuesday or updates for
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> public. It's quite fast here, but the 32 gigs of ram probably help a
>>>>>> bit. I
>>>>>> woudl just  check for updates and stuff.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 2018, at 12:25 PM, Lino Morales <linomorales001@...
>>>>>>> <mailto:linomorales001@...>>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That’s odd cause its not snappy here and I’m running Insider builds.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986
>>>>>>> <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>> for
>>>>>>> Windows 10
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>>>>>> <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>>
>>>>>>> <nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>>>>>> <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>>> on behalf
>>>>>>> of Sarah k
>>>>>>> Alawami <marrie12@... <mailto:marrie12@...>
>>>>>>> <mailto:marrie12@... <mailto:marrie12@...>>>
>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2018 3:18:18 PM
>>>>>>> To: nvda list list
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nvda] I've had it with Firefox
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have. And no I  do not run firefox on the mac. I can't. But yeah
>>>>>>> firefox
>>>>>>> is  snappy  on my win 10 64 bit machine.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 2018, at 11:31 AM, Lino Morales <linomorales001@...
>>>>>>>> <mailto:linomorales001@...>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:linomorales001@... <mailto:linomorales001@...>>>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> How slow is it for you? You are running a Mac right? Have you ran on
>>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>> actual PC 64 bit running WIN 10?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986
>>>>>>>> <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>> for
>>>>>>>> Windows 10
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>>
>>>>>>>> <nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>>> on behalf
>>>>>>>> of Sarah k
>>>>>>>> Alawami <marrie12@... <mailto:marrie12@...>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:marrie12@... <mailto:marrie12@...>>>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2018 2:29:17 PM
>>>>>>>> To: nvda list list
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nvda] I've had it with Firefox
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'll sticke with FF Loving it over here. I go between that and
>>>>>>>> chrome.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 2018, at 10:46 AM, Lino Morales
>>>>>>>>> <linomorales001@... <mailto:linomorales001@...>
>>>>>>>>> <mailto:linomorales001@...
>>>>>>>>> <mailto:linomorales001@...>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Well like I said in my subject line I’ve had I
>>>>>>>>> with firefox. Every site is slowith NVDa even the mobile FB site. I
>>>>>>>>> bit
>>>>>>>>> the bullet and downloaded Waterfox. Seems to work much better. May
>>>>>>>>> I’ll
>>>>>>>>> wait ti FF 70 and see how fast that will be. So long FF. Me and WF
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> Edge are good buddies.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986
>>>>>>>>> <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>> for
>>>>>>>>> Windows 10
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
>>>>> They ask: "How Happy are You?"
>>>>> I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

I'm not sure and since the thread now includes NVDA, I answered in another message concerning NVDA as well.  If the suggestions I made don't work, I'm not sure if I have other suggestions but since the topic has been broadened, my next answer is now on topic.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Christopher-Mark Gilland

Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2018 4:56 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] I've had it with Firefox

Gene, how in Thunderbird would I extract your personal e-mail address from your post to the list?

Seeing I was mainly discussing JAWS, not NVDA, I boobooed. I didn't read the e-mail headers correctly, and thought this was on a totally different list which sometimes discussez JFW. I consider my message further to be off topic for this list.

I'd like however to try your suggestion, and if it doesn't work, e-mail you privately so we can keep trouble shooting... that is... of course, if you're OK with that.

Alas, thank you for your help.

Chris.

On 07/07/2018 05:53 PM, Gene wrote:

With JAWS and not with NVDA?  Maybe you should use NVDA with Firefox for a time and JAWS with it only if necessary for some reason. 

 

Also, your problem may be that JAWS isn't lining up what is in the buffer with the actual control you want to work with.  Try the following:

Press the left mouse button instead of enter.  Don't route anything or change to any other cursor than the virtual PC cursor.  Just press the left mouse button instead of enter.

 

I have one or two other suggestions that might help but if this one solves the problem, trying the others won't be necessary.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Christopher-Mark Gilland

Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2018 4:47 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] I've had it with Firefox

I'm coming in on this thread extremely extremely late, so forgive me if
this's been already mentioned. I have managed to get so much mail in my
inbox these last few days of abscence, that I can't possibly go through
everything quickly.

One thing with JAWS 2018 and the latest build of Firefox 61 that I'm
seeing is an issue where you'll be on something which is clickable like
a link, or a dropdown, or something of sort. You either hit enter, or
space bar, and the stupid dad blamed thing either won't do anything at
all, or more 9 times out of 10, it will jump me focused on to my
taskbar. In fact, one time, I hit enter on a link, not even a mailto:
link, and the stupid thing opened my Windows 10 Mail app.

Excuse my language, but, what the hell!

Absolutely this didn't used to happen, and honestly, I can't remember
when it started. Ever since Firefox decided to go Quantom, things have
just totally totally gone down hill with it. I get that VFO is doing
their best with what they have to fix things, which I appreciate. In
their defense, I get totally that they're trying, but I wonder how much
of this is really VFO breaking things, vs. how much is Mozilla breaking
things. I'm inclined to think more the ladder.

I'm admittedly not the biggest fan of Chrome on the Windows platform,
maybe on Android, and on the mac, but not Windows. I'm not totally sure
why, but yeah... It's not something I can put my finger on. I just don't
care for it.

Anyway, I'd be curious if any of you all have seen this behavior as
well. I'm told that supposedly, I'm not the only one experiencing this.

Chris.

Gene, how in Thunderbird would I extract your personal e-mail address from your post to the list?

Seeing I was mainly discussing JAWS, not NVDA, I boobooed. I didn't read the e-mail headers correctly, and thought this was on a totally different list which sometimes discussez JFW. I consider my message further to be off topic for this list.

I'd like however to try your suggestion, and if it doesn't work, e-mail you privately so we can keep trouble shooting... that is... of course, if you're OK with that.

Alas, thank you for your help.

Chris.

With JAWS and not with NVDA?  Maybe you should use NVDA with Firefox for a time and JAWS with it only if necessary for some reason. 

 

Also, your problem may be that JAWS isn't lining up what is in the buffer with the actual control you want to work with.  Try the following:

Press the left mouse button instead of enter.  Don't route anything or change to any other cursor than the virtual PC cursor.  Just press the left mouse button instead of enter.

 

I have one or two other suggestions that might help but if this one solves the problem, trying the others won't be necessary.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Christopher-Mark Gilland

Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2018 4:47 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] I've had it with Firefox

I'm coming in on this thread extremely extremely late, so forgive me if
this's been already mentioned. I have managed to get so much mail in my
inbox these last few days of abscence, that I can't possibly go through
everything quickly.

One thing with JAWS 2018 and the latest build of Firefox 61 that I'm
seeing is an issue where you'll be on something which is clickable like
a link, or a dropdown, or something of sort. You either hit enter, or
space bar, and the stupid dad blamed thing either won't do anything at
all, or more 9 times out of 10, it will jump me focused on to my
taskbar. In fact, one time, I hit enter on a link, not even a mailto:
link, and the stupid thing opened my Windows 10 Mail app.

Excuse my language, but, what the hell!

Absolutely this didn't used to happen, and honestly, I can't remember
when it started. Ever since Firefox decided to go Quantom, things have
just totally totally gone down hill with it. I get that VFO is doing
their best with what they have to fix things, which I appreciate. In
their defense, I get totally that they're trying, but I wonder how much
of this is really VFO breaking things, vs. how much is Mozilla breaking
things. I'm inclined to think more the ladder.

I'm admittedly not the biggest fan of Chrome on the Windows platform,
maybe on Android, and on the mac, but not Windows. I'm not totally sure
why, but yeah... It's not something I can put my finger on. I just don't
care for it.

Anyway, I'd be curious if any of you all have seen this behavior as
well. I'm told that supposedly, I'm not the only one experiencing this.

Chris.

Crap!


Forgive me.


I thought this was on the Win10 list, not NVDA.


This being said, I'm still seeing this as well with NVDA.


Pardon my carelessness.


Chris.


On 07/07/2018 01:48 PM, Lenron wrote:
> I must agree it works great for youTube
>
> On 7/7/18, Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@...> wrote:
>> I actually hate chrome on windows. I dunno what it is. It’s fast but to me
>> feels sticky and clunky. I will only use chrome for youtube as that’s when
>> it in my humble opinion works the best.
>>
>>> On Jul 7, 2018, at 1:29 AM, Angela Delicata <angeladelicata@...>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Firefox is too slow for me: i have abandoned it for Chrome which is far
>>> better and Ithink usable too.
>>>
>>> If you try Chrome, you will no longer want to use anything else.
>>> Just a suggestion of course.
>>>
>>> Il 06/07/2018 19:00, Dave Grossoehme ha scritto:
>>>> You could have a valid point on video cards or even sound cards.  It's
>>>> known that different processors make a difference on what software is
>>>> running
>>>>
>>>> Insider Dave
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 6/29/2018 4:52 AM, Ron Canazzi wrote:
>>>>> Hi Gene,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> This whole issue with Firefox is odd, but since I have seen no
>>>>> complaints about Firefox sluggishness or unresponsiveness from sighted
>>>>> people, the issue has to be somehow related to screen reader usage
>>>>> and/or the way JAWS, NVDA and other screen readers interface with
>>>>> Firefox under very complex conditions.  I am still wondering about video
>>>>> card or internal video chips conflicts. I know everyone at Freedom
>>>>> Scientific/VFO used to get mad at me when I worked for them every time
>>>>> something like this would happen with a program--wherein some people had
>>>>> no issues and others had several issues.  I would bring up video
>>>>> card/chip conflicts of issues and they would yell at me that all such
>>>>> issues involving screen readers (in the words of the old gospel song) it
>>>>> was all settled long ago.  Still, I wonder!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 6/29/2018 5:10 AM, Gene wrote:
>>>>>> this discussion needs perspective, in my opinion.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Which version of firefox is inefficient with memory?  According to a
>>>>>> review I read of the new Firefox, it is much more efficient with
>>>>>> memory.  and efficient or not, no browser is going to require that a
>>>>>> computer have 4 or 5gb of RAM to work.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> and the slowness is, as far as I can reasonably infer, because of
>>>>>> unresolved accessibility issues.  Since there are very conflicting
>>>>>> reports, with some people being very pleased with the new Firefox and
>>>>>> others not, we'll have to see how things work out over time.  Something
>>>>>> unknown is evidently causing a wide disparity.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you read reviews by sighted reviewers, the new Firefox is very fast
>>>>>> and is now a realistic competitor to Chrome.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regarding privacy, according to one or two reviews, Firefox is now
>>>>>> better at protecting privacy, or providing options to do so, than
>>>>>> Chrome.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Waterfox is based on an ESR version of Firefox.  it's a small operation
>>>>>> and how well it will keep up with security fixes that are necessary is,
>>>>>> as far as I can see, not known.  How will it keep up in general?  If it
>>>>>> bases itself on ESR versions of Firefox, and with a new ESR version of
>>>>>> Firefox coming out within about a week or less, are all the advantages
>>>>>> you like in Waterfox going to disappear?  the new ESR version of
>>>>>> firefox, on which Waterfox is based, will be a quantum version.  We'll
>>>>>> see what it is like and how people comment on it here.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There is, at present, far too much that isn't known about future
>>>>>> developments.  A strong antiFirefox bias predisposes against making the
>>>>>> best choices in future and may cause people not to pay attention to
>>>>>> future developments as soon as they might, thus, perhaps, delaying
>>>>>> benefiting from future advantages.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Gene
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
>>>>>> <mailto:bglists@...>
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, June 29, 2018 3:31 AM
>>>>>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nvda] I've had it with Firefox
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Blimey, I only have 8 gigs of ram. You can with the resource monitor
>>>>>> add on
>>>>>> see very clearly that Firefox is not very efficient at processor or
>>>>>> memory
>>>>>> use most of the time. I have an I5 and its been unthrottled too.
>>>>>>   Brian
>>>>>>
>>>>>> bglists@... <mailto:bglists@...>
>>>>>> Sent via blueyonder.
>>>>>> Please address personal E-mail to:-
>>>>>> briang1@... <mailto:briang1@...>, putting
>>>>>> 'Brian Gaff'
>>>>>> in the display name field.
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Sarah k Alawami" <marrie12@...
>>>>>> <mailto:marrie12@...>>
>>>>>> To: "nvda list list" <nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>>>>> <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>>
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2018 8:37 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nvda] I've had it with Firefox
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yeah I'm not. I'm on what ever was released last Tuesday or updates for
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> public. It's quite fast here, but the 32 gigs of ram probably help a
>>>>>> bit. I
>>>>>> woudl just  check for updates and stuff.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 2018, at 12:25 PM, Lino Morales <linomorales001@...
>>>>>>> <mailto:linomorales001@...>>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That’s odd cause its not snappy here and I’m running Insider builds.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986
>>>>>>> <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>> for
>>>>>>> Windows 10
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>>>>>> <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>>
>>>>>>> <nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>>>>>> <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>>> on behalf
>>>>>>> of Sarah k
>>>>>>> Alawami <marrie12@... <mailto:marrie12@...>
>>>>>>> <mailto:marrie12@... <mailto:marrie12@...>>>
>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2018 3:18:18 PM
>>>>>>> To: nvda list list
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nvda] I've had it with Firefox
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have. And no I  do not run firefox on the mac. I can't. But yeah
>>>>>>> firefox
>>>>>>> is  snappy  on my win 10 64 bit machine.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 2018, at 11:31 AM, Lino Morales <linomorales001@...
>>>>>>>> <mailto:linomorales001@...>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:linomorales001@... <mailto:linomorales001@...>>>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> How slow is it for you? You are running a Mac right? Have you ran on
>>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>> actual PC 64 bit running WIN 10?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986
>>>>>>>> <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>> for
>>>>>>>> Windows 10
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>>
>>>>>>>> <nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>>> on behalf
>>>>>>>> of Sarah k
>>>>>>>> Alawami <marrie12@... <mailto:marrie12@...>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:marrie12@... <mailto:marrie12@...>>>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2018 2:29:17 PM
>>>>>>>> To: nvda list list
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nvda] I've had it with Firefox
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'll sticke with FF Loving it over here. I go between that and
>>>>>>>> chrome.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 2018, at 10:46 AM, Lino Morales
>>>>>>>>> <linomorales001@... <mailto:linomorales001@...>
>>>>>>>>> <mailto:linomorales001@...
>>>>>>>>> <mailto:linomorales001@...>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Well like I said in my subject line I’ve had I
>>>>>>>>> with firefox. Every site is slowith NVDa even the mobile FB site. I
>>>>>>>>> bit
>>>>>>>>> the bullet and downloaded Waterfox. Seems to work much better. May
>>>>>>>>> I’ll
>>>>>>>>> wait ti FF 70 and see how fast that will be. So long FF. Me and WF
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> Edge are good buddies.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986
>>>>>>>>> <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>> for
>>>>>>>>> Windows 10
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
>>>>> They ask: "How Happy are You?"
>>>>> I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

With JAWS and not with NVDA?  Maybe you should use NVDA with Firefox for a time and JAWS with it only if necessary for some reason. 

 

Also, your problem may be that JAWS isn't lining up what is in the buffer with the actual control you want to work with.  Try the following:

Press the left mouse button instead of enter.  Don't route anything or change to any other cursor than the virtual PC cursor.  Just press the left mouse button instead of enter.

 

I have one or two other suggestions that might help but if this one solves the problem, trying the others won't be necessary.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Christopher-Mark Gilland

Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2018 4:47 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] I've had it with Firefox

I'm coming in on this thread extremely extremely late, so forgive me if
this's been already mentioned. I have managed to get so much mail in my
inbox these last few days of abscence, that I can't possibly go through
everything quickly.

One thing with JAWS 2018 and the latest build of Firefox 61 that I'm
seeing is an issue where you'll be on something which is clickable like
a link, or a dropdown, or something of sort. You either hit enter, or
space bar, and the stupid dad blamed thing either won't do anything at
all, or more 9 times out of 10, it will jump me focused on to my
taskbar. In fact, one time, I hit enter on a link, not even a mailto:
link, and the stupid thing opened my Windows 10 Mail app.

Excuse my language, but, what the hell!

Absolutely this didn't used to happen, and honestly, I can't remember
when it started. Ever since Firefox decided to go Quantom, things have
just totally totally gone down hill with it. I get that VFO is doing
their best with what they have to fix things, which I appreciate. In
their defense, I get totally that they're trying, but I wonder how much
of this is really VFO breaking things, vs. how much is Mozilla breaking
things. I'm inclined to think more the ladder.

I'm admittedly not the biggest fan of Chrome on the Windows platform,
maybe on Android, and on the mac, but not Windows. I'm not totally sure
why, but yeah... It's not something I can put my finger on. I just don't
care for it.

Anyway, I'd be curious if any of you all have seen this behavior as
well. I'm told that supposedly, I'm not the only one experiencing this.

Chris.

I'm coming in on this thread extremely extremely late, so forgive me if
this's been already mentioned. I have managed to get so much mail in my
inbox these last few days of abscence, that I can't possibly go through
everything quickly.

One thing with JAWS 2018 and the latest build of Firefox 61 that I'm
seeing is an issue where you'll be on something which is clickable like
a link, or a dropdown, or something of sort. You either hit enter, or
space bar, and the stupid dad blamed thing either won't do anything at
all, or more 9 times out of 10, it will jump me focused on to my
taskbar. In fact, one time, I hit enter on a link, not even a mailto:
link, and the stupid thing opened my Windows 10 Mail app.

Excuse my language, but, what the hell!

Absolutely this didn't used to happen, and honestly, I can't remember
when it started. Ever since Firefox decided to go Quantom, things have
just totally totally gone down hill with it. I get that VFO is doing
their best with what they have to fix things, which I appreciate. In
their defense, I get totally that they're trying, but I wonder how much
of this is really VFO breaking things, vs. how much is Mozilla breaking
things. I'm inclined to think more the ladder.

I'm admittedly not the biggest fan of Chrome on the Windows platform,
maybe on Android, and on the mac, but not Windows. I'm not totally sure
why, but yeah... It's not something I can put my finger on. I just don't
care for it.

Anyway, I'd be curious if any of you all have seen this behavior as
well. I'm told that supposedly, I'm not the only one experiencing this.

Chris.

On 7/7/2018 2:47 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote:

I'm coming in on this thread extremely extremely late, so forgive me if this's been already mentioned. I have managed to get so much mail in my inbox these last few days of abscence, that I can't possibly go through everything quickly.

One thing with JAWS 2018 and the latest build of Firefox 61 that I'm seeing is an issue where you'll be on something which is clickable like a link, or a dropdown, or something of sort. You either hit enter, or space bar, and the stupid dad blamed thing either won't do anything at all, or more 9 times out of 10, it will jump me focused on to my taskbar. In fact, one time, I hit enter on a link, not even a mailto: link, and the stupid thing opened my Windows 10 Mail app.

Excuse my language, but, what the hell!

Absolutely this didn't used to happen, and honestly, I can't remember when it started. Ever since Firefox decided to go Quantom, things have just totally totally gone down hill with it. I get that VFO is doing their best with what they have to fix things, which I appreciate. In their defense, I get totally that they're trying, but I wonder how much of this is really VFO breaking things, vs. how much is Mozilla breaking things. I'm inclined to think more the ladder.

I'm admittedly not the biggest fan of Chrome on the Windows platform, maybe on Android, and on the mac, but not Windows. I'm not totally sure why, but yeah... It's not something I can put my finger on. I just don't care for it.

Anyway, I'd be curious if any of you all have seen this behavior as well. I'm told that supposedly, I'm not the only one experiencing this.

Chris.


.

On 07/07/2018 01:48 PM, Lenron wrote:

I must agree it works great for youTube

On 7/7/18, Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@gmail.com> wrote:

I actually hate chrome on windows. I dunno what it is. It’s fast but to me
feels sticky and clunky. I will only use chrome for youtube as that’s when
it in my humble opinion works the best.

On Jul 7, 2018, at 1:29 AM, Angela Delicata <angeladelicata@gmail.com>
wrote:

Firefox is too slow for me: i have abandoned it for Chrome which is far
better and Ithink usable too.

If you try Chrome, you will no longer want to use anything else.
Just a suggestion of course.

Il 06/07/2018 19:00, Dave Grossoehme ha scritto:

You could have a valid point on video cards or even sound cards. It's
known that different processors make a difference on what software is
running

Insider Dave



On 6/29/2018 4:52 AM, Ron Canazzi wrote:

Hi Gene,


This whole issue with Firefox is odd, but since I have seen no
complaints about Firefox sluggishness or unresponsiveness from sighted
people, the issue has to be somehow related to screen reader usage
and/or the way JAWS, NVDA and other screen readers interface with
Firefox under very complex conditions. I am still wondering about video
card or internal video chips conflicts. I know everyone at Freedom
Scientific/VFO used to get mad at me when I worked for them every time
something like this would happen with a program--wherein some people had
no issues and others had several issues. I would bring up video
card/chip conflicts of issues and they would yell at me that all such
issues involving screen readers (in the words of the old gospel song) it
was all settled long ago. Still, I wonder!



On 6/29/2018 5:10 AM, Gene wrote:

this discussion needs perspective, in my opinion.

Which version of firefox is inefficient with memory? According to a
review I read of the new Firefox, it is much more efficient with
memory. and efficient or not, no browser is going to require that a
computer have 4 or 5gb of RAM to work.

and the slowness is, as far as I can reasonably infer, because of
unresolved accessibility issues. Since there are very conflicting
reports, with some people being very pleased with the new Firefox and
others not, we'll have to see how things work out over time. Something
unknown is evidently causing a wide disparity.

If you read reviews by sighted reviewers, the new Firefox is very fast
and is now a realistic competitor to Chrome.

Regarding privacy, according to one or two reviews, Firefox is now
better at protecting privacy, or providing options to do so, than
Chrome.

Waterfox is based on an ESR version of Firefox. it's a small operation
and how well it will keep up with security fixes that are necessary is,
as far as I can see, not known. How will it keep up in general? If it
bases itself on ESR versions of Firefox, and with a new ESR version of
Firefox coming out within about a week or less, are all the advantages
you like in Waterfox going to disappear? the new ESR version of
firefox, on which Waterfox is based, will be a quantum version. We'll
see what it is like and how people comment on it here.

There is, at present, far too much that isn't known about future
developments. A strong antiFirefox bias predisposes against making the
best choices in future and may cause people not to pay attention to
future developments as soon as they might, thus, perhaps, delaying
benefiting from future advantages.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
<mailto:bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io>
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2018 3:31 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've had it with Firefox

Blimey, I only have 8 gigs of ram. You can with the resource monitor
add on
see very clearly that Firefox is not very efficient at processor or
memory
use most of the time. I have an I5 and its been unthrottled too.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk <mailto:bglists@blueyonder.co.uk>
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk <mailto:briang1@blueyonder.co.uk>, putting
'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sarah k Alawami" <marrie12@gmail.com
<mailto:marrie12@gmail.com>>
To: "nvda list list" <nvda@nvda.groups.io
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>>
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2018 8:37 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've had it with Firefox


Yeah I'm not. I'm on what ever was released last Tuesday or updates for
the
public. It's quite fast here, but the 32 gigs of ram probably help a
bit. I
woudl just check for updates and stuff.

On Jun 28, 2018, at 12:25 PM, Lino Morales <linomorales001@gmail.com
<mailto:linomorales001@gmail.com>>
wrote:

That’s odd cause its not snappy here and I’m running Insider builds.

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986
<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>> for
Windows 10

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>>> on behalf
of Sarah k
Alawami <marrie12@gmail.com <mailto:marrie12@gmail.com>
<mailto:marrie12@gmail.com <mailto:marrie12@gmail.com>>>
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2018 3:18:18 PM
To: nvda list list
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've had it with Firefox

I have. And no I do not run firefox on the mac. I can't. But yeah
firefox
is snappy on my win 10 64 bit machine.

On Jun 28, 2018, at 11:31 AM, Lino Morales <linomorales001@gmail.com
<mailto:linomorales001@gmail.com>
<mailto:linomorales001@gmail.com <mailto:linomorales001@gmail.com>>>
wrote:

How slow is it for you? You are running a Mac right? Have you ran on
an
actual PC 64 bit running WIN 10?

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986
<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>> for
Windows 10

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>>> on behalf
of Sarah k
Alawami <marrie12@gmail.com <mailto:marrie12@gmail.com>
<mailto:marrie12@gmail.com <mailto:marrie12@gmail.com>>>
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2018 2:29:17 PM
To: nvda list list
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've had it with Firefox

I'll sticke with FF Loving it over here. I go between that and
chrome.

On Jun 28, 2018, at 10:46 AM, Lino Morales
<linomorales001@gmail.com <mailto:linomorales001@gmail.com>
<mailto:linomorales001@gmail.com
<mailto:linomorales001@gmail.com>>> wrote:

Well like I said in my subject line I’ve had I
with firefox. Every site is slowith NVDa even the mobile FB site. I
bit
the bullet and downloaded Waterfox. Seems to work much better. May
I’ll
wait ti FF 70 and see how fast that will be. So long FF. Me and WF
and
Edge are good buddies.

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986
<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>> for
Windows 10

--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"