Date   

Microsoft Edge is Starting to Grow on Me.

Kenny <kwashingtonbox@...>
 

Good day,


Well with Joseph's announcement about the NVDA Try Build, I decided to invest more time in using Microsoft's applications on my Windows 10 PC.


Started things off with the Microsoft Edge browser.


Not sure if it's the new Try-Build or a lot of changes have recently been made to Edge overall, but it works pretty damn well with NVDA.


NVDA reads All of the push notification bar messages automatically. It also informs me when the page has fully loaded (Loading complete.) Most of the NVDA quick navigation key shortcuts do work to quickly jump through web content.


Love... love... love... the Reading View ([Ctrl]+[Shift]+[r]) feature of Edge. This alone is starting to make me a Chrome to Edge convert.


I hate to say it, but managing Favorites in Edge is much much easier to do then with Chrome in my humble opinion. Microsoft uses a traditional Treeview structure in their manager. Very nice!


The only problem I'm having is when I find myself sometimes being placed in the toolbar icons pain of Edge. I quickly jump back to the web page content by pressing [F6]. I just get annoyed with this at times.


Curious why they don't implement a shortcut key to display that entire pain (Similar to [Ctrl]+[i] for Favorites, [Ctrl]+[h] for History, and [Ctrl]+[j] for Downloads?) I could simply hit the [Escape] key to hide/dismiss it again.


Reading Joseph's recent email regarding the Try-Build of NVDA being released and us really caring about the changes Microsoft is implementing all the time to make their line of Windows applications more accessible got me thinking.


Why can't I give their programs a chance? Yes, in the past I've experienced a lot of problems with their applications. That doesn't mean they've not made efforts to correct things (Due to feedback from Insider testers and bug reports.)


Time for me to start using the free tools Microsoft has developed and stop searching for replacements. And I mean all of the tools (Even the bug report and feedback submission tools.) This is key to helping Microsoft fix things they may not yet be aware of.


By the way, if you want a nice resource listing Microsoft Edge keyboard shortcuts:

Visit https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/5620-microsoft-edge-keyboard-shortcuts-list.html


It really has morphed into a pretty good browser. I'm going to start using it more.

-Kenny


Re: Request for a new NVDA feature

Akshaya Choudhary
 

@JMCasey can you give me the Topic of the thread?
--
Regards,
Sociohack


Re: difficulty with a certain website (yes, it's one o' those)

Gene
 

I didn't experiment with the graphic link in Firefox.  I'm not sure what accounts for the difference between Chrome and Firefox.  But that's very interesting.  I'll play with the site with Firefox again.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: JM Casey
Sent: Friday, July 13, 2018 10:58 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] difficulty with a certain website (yes, it's one o' those)

Yes, I understand. I used Firefox ESR, and IE. Now I have discovered that if I press “g” to move to graphic after selecting one of the titles, and then hit enter, I can access the shop using Firefox, but I think I was missing that info before. jAWS also does not seem to detect that particular graphic link at all, or at least not consistently (though I was able to access the shop once using it all the same), but NVDA does ok with it, and armed with this particular piece of knowledge, I’ve at least been able to make a lot more progress than previously.

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: July 13, 2018 11:46 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] difficulty with a certain website (yes, it's one o' those)

 

Here is more information and its important.

 

I just checked the site using Firefox and it appears the buttons aren't seen by Firefox.  I am using the older 52.x ESR version so I don't know if quantum sees the buttons.  I had previously checked with Chrome and I saw the buttons. 

 

So everything I said in my last message is important to keep in mind on unfamiliar pages but also, it is very important to have more than one browser available and to check sites with more than one if the site isn't useable with the one being used.  At times, the difference is dramatic.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene

Sent: Friday, July 13, 2018 10:30 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] difficulty with a certain website (yes, it's one o' those)

 

Did you follow the link to the page for the specific product?  Once there, how did you look at the page?  There are buttons on the page that say things like purchase CD.  It appears you didn't see them.  Did you use the links list, that limits the structures you are looking for to one structure?  Did you only move by link through the page by using a move to next link command?  Don't limit what you look for by structure on an unfamiliar page.  If you are taking a short cut to save time, use something that stops on almost every structure.  Tab Does.  But I don't think tab stops on clickable items that aren't links so even using tab, you may miss the structure.  If you don't see it, then do it the hard way.  Read or skim each line of the page below the navigation links at the top until you get to the navigation links, if any, at the bottom. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: JM Casey

Sent: Friday, July 13, 2018 9:56 AM

Subject: [nvda] difficulty with a certain website (yes, it's one o' those)

 

Hello everyone.

 

I’ve recently had an interest in a small, independent company based in the UK that creates audio dramas and adaptations of some horror classics. They are called Bafflegab Productions, and this is their site:

http://bafflegab.co.uk/

 

I must admit that I’ve been stymied by this website. Everything *appears* to be accessible enough, except for the key element: the ability to shop for and download their materials. I’ve tried both Firefox ESR and IE so far, and used both NVDA 18.3 and JAWS 18. I’ve hunted around the site, and the only clue I’ve found so far is a reference to bandcamp in the FAQ. Having noticed some recent frustrating issues with bandcamp and screen-readers, I know this could potentially be a problem, however I do not see how this could be preventing links to shop, log in or create an account, etc, from being visible to screen-readers.

 

I’ve already written the head man at the company about this and explained my difficulty, but I’m writing to the list to see if anyone else wants to have a go, and/or can point me to something I might be missing that might clue me in as to how one goes about acquiring anything from these fellows if not a mouse/screen user. I haven’t yet had a sighted person look at the website to see what they might make of it, but that’s also a next step. I’m hoping to get some kind of accessibility dialogue going with the company, so am trying to gather more info that might not immediately be apparent to me. Then again, it could be that I’m just missing something terribly obvious that someone else here could point out! So, what does anyone here make of it?

 

 


Re: Request for a new NVDA feature

JM Casey <crystallogic@...>
 

I find the pauses SAPI5 uses to be unbearably long. Tyler Spivy, I think it was, who posts on this list, provided a solution. You can adjust the pauses to the length of your choice by editing an .ini file deep within Windows. However, every time there is a major windows update, your settings are revoked, it seems.

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sociohack AC
Sent: July 13, 2018 11:46 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Request for a new NVDA feature

 

Someone on reddit told me that in Voice Dream Reader you can control the duration of the pauses after punctuation and sentence break. It would be great to have similar feature for NVDA.  SAPI 5 voices do provide intonation pauses, but they also provide pauses after command keys, which makes them slow for general navigation. Maybe, we could have a feature enabling the users to toggle between extended pauses and short pauses.  For general navigation short pauses will be great, like they are in Espeak, and for reading long documents long pauses would be very helpful, like they are in SAPI 5 voices.
Someone please introduce this feature.  --
--
Regards,
Sociohack


Re: difficulty with a certain website (yes, it's one o' those)

JM Casey <crystallogic@...>
 

Yes, I understand. I used Firefox ESR, and IE. Now I have discovered that if I press “g” to move to graphic after selecting one of the titles, and then hit enter, I can access the shop using Firefox, but I think I was missing that info before. jAWS also does not seem to detect that particular graphic link at all, or at least not consistently (though I was able to access the shop once using it all the same), but NVDA does ok with it, and armed with this particular piece of knowledge, I’ve at least been able to make a lot more progress than previously.

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: July 13, 2018 11:46 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] difficulty with a certain website (yes, it's one o' those)

 

Here is more information and its important.

 

I just checked the site using Firefox and it appears the buttons aren't seen by Firefox.  I am using the older 52.x ESR version so I don't know if quantum sees the buttons.  I had previously checked with Chrome and I saw the buttons. 

 

So everything I said in my last message is important to keep in mind on unfamiliar pages but also, it is very important to have more than one browser available and to check sites with more than one if the site isn't useable with the one being used.  At times, the difference is dramatic.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene

Sent: Friday, July 13, 2018 10:30 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] difficulty with a certain website (yes, it's one o' those)

 

Did you follow the link to the page for the specific product?  Once there, how did you look at the page?  There are buttons on the page that say things like purchase CD.  It appears you didn't see them.  Did you use the links list, that limits the structures you are looking for to one structure?  Did you only move by link through the page by using a move to next link command?  Don't limit what you look for by structure on an unfamiliar page.  If you are taking a short cut to save time, use something that stops on almost every structure.  Tab Does.  But I don't think tab stops on clickable items that aren't links so even using tab, you may miss the structure.  If you don't see it, then do it the hard way.  Read or skim each line of the page below the navigation links at the top until you get to the navigation links, if any, at the bottom. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: JM Casey

Sent: Friday, July 13, 2018 9:56 AM

Subject: [nvda] difficulty with a certain website (yes, it's one o' those)

 

Hello everyone.

 

I’ve recently had an interest in a small, independent company based in the UK that creates audio dramas and adaptations of some horror classics. They are called Bafflegab Productions, and this is their site:

http://bafflegab.co.uk/

 

I must admit that I’ve been stymied by this website. Everything *appears* to be accessible enough, except for the key element: the ability to shop for and download their materials. I’ve tried both Firefox ESR and IE so far, and used both NVDA 18.3 and JAWS 18. I’ve hunted around the site, and the only clue I’ve found so far is a reference to bandcamp in the FAQ. Having noticed some recent frustrating issues with bandcamp and screen-readers, I know this could potentially be a problem, however I do not see how this could be preventing links to shop, log in or create an account, etc, from being visible to screen-readers.

 

I’ve already written the head man at the company about this and explained my difficulty, but I’m writing to the list to see if anyone else wants to have a go, and/or can point me to something I might be missing that might clue me in as to how one goes about acquiring anything from these fellows if not a mouse/screen user. I haven’t yet had a sighted person look at the website to see what they might make of it, but that’s also a next step. I’m hoping to get some kind of accessibility dialogue going with the company, so am trying to gather more info that might not immediately be apparent to me. Then again, it could be that I’m just missing something terribly obvious that someone else here could point out! So, what does anyone here make of it?

 

 


Re: difficulty with a certain website (yes, it's one o' those)

JM Casey <crystallogic@...>
 

Hey Gene.

 

I did not see those buttons. I did not use the links list. I hardly ever do. I did search for both links and buttons, the latter of which I kind of expected to see,  by arrowing around with the focus but also using the navigational keys b + shift-b.

However, for some reason, they were not showing up for me at the time.

Now though … after reading your message and poking at the site again, I have been able to see them by clicking on the link that says “graphic”. I do not know why this wasn’t visible for me before. When I use jAWS, it still doesn’t seem to be, but I was able to get the shop to pop up by clicking around the title headings. NVDA does seem to be doing better at this, as in, I can consistently find the graphic link and click on it to access the shop, but somehow in my experimentation I missed this before.

It’s very strange. Maybe it was too early in the morning for me, but I’m now not really sure how I could have missed them. That whole dialogue starting with the audio player and containing the various buttons to stream, purchase, was simply not being read, and I don’t know why. Now that I look at the address bar I can see the url has changed to shop.bafflegab.co.uk, and I don’t think that even happened before.

So it was either a site glitch or I’m much worse at this than I thought.

 

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: July 13, 2018 11:31 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] difficulty with a certain website (yes, it's one o' those)

 

Did you follow the link to the page for the specific product?  Once there, how did you look at the page?  There are buttons on the page that say things like purchase CD.  It appears you didn't see them.  Did you use the links list, that limits the structures you are looking for to one structure?  Did you only move by link through the page by using a move to next link command?  Don't limit what you look for by structure on an unfamiliar page.  If you are taking a short cut to save time, use something that stops on almost every structure.  Tab Does.  But I don't think tab stops on clickable items that aren't links so even using tab, you may miss the structure.  If you don't see it, then do it the hard way.  Read or skim each line of the page below the navigation links at the top until you get to the navigation links, if any, at the bottom. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: JM Casey

Sent: Friday, July 13, 2018 9:56 AM

Subject: [nvda] difficulty with a certain website (yes, it's one o' those)

 

Hello everyone.

 

I’ve recently had an interest in a small, independent company based in the UK that creates audio dramas and adaptations of some horror classics. They are called Bafflegab Productions, and this is their site:

http://bafflegab.co.uk/

 

I must admit that I’ve been stymied by this website. Everything *appears* to be accessible enough, except for the key element: the ability to shop for and download their materials. I’ve tried both Firefox ESR and IE so far, and used both NVDA 18.3 and JAWS 18. I’ve hunted around the site, and the only clue I’ve found so far is a reference to bandcamp in the FAQ. Having noticed some recent frustrating issues with bandcamp and screen-readers, I know this could potentially be a problem, however I do not see how this could be preventing links to shop, log in or create an account, etc, from being visible to screen-readers.

 

I’ve already written the head man at the company about this and explained my difficulty, but I’m writing to the list to see if anyone else wants to have a go, and/or can point me to something I might be missing that might clue me in as to how one goes about acquiring anything from these fellows if not a mouse/screen user. I haven’t yet had a sighted person look at the website to see what they might make of it, but that’s also a next step. I’m hoping to get some kind of accessibility dialogue going with the company, so am trying to gather more info that might not immediately be apparent to me. Then again, it could be that I’m just missing something terribly obvious that someone else here could point out! So, what does anyone here make of it?

 

 


Re: Problem with Skype

Sarah k Alawami
 

Is there a website where I can read this easier? I thought I kept tht in my history but didn’t lol!

On Jul 13, 2018, at 12:52 AM, David Moore <jesusloves1966@...> wrote:

Hi!
The Skype app has become much more accessible!
Here is a table of key commands for the skype app.
The table gives the Windows and the Mac command for each action.
Here it is:
What are hotkeys and how do I use them in Skype?
Keyboard shortcuts are specific combinations of two or more keys on your keyboard. They make it easier and faster for you to use commands that you would otherwise have to access via the menus. You can use keyboard shortcuts to easily quit Skype, send a file, copy text and a lot more.
Hotkeys in Skype (version 8) for Windows Desktop, and Mac
Windows desktop Hotkey
Mac Hotkey
Action
Not applicable
[Command]+[1]
Open the main Skype window
Ctrl + I
[Command]+Shift+[O]
Open Notification panel
Ctrl + , (Ctrl + comma)
[Command]+[Comma]
Open app settings
Ctrl + H
Not applicable
Open Help in default browser
Ctrl + D
[Command]+[2]
Launch main dial pad
Ctrl + N
[Command]+[N]
Start new conversation
Ctrl + G
[Command]+[G]
New group
Ctrl + F
[Command]+[F]
Search for all contacts, messages and bots
Ctrl + Shift + S
[Command]+Shift+[S]
Search within selected message
Alt + 1
Not applicable
Navigate to recent chats
Alt + 2
[Command]+Shift+[C]
Open contacts
Alt + 3
[Command]+Shift+[B]
Open contact screen to bots
Ctrl + O
[Command]+Option+[O]
Send feedback
Ctrl + R
[Command]+[R]
Refresh the app
Ctrl + T
[Command]+[T]
Open themes
Ctrl + Shift + T
[Command]+Shift+[T]
Toggle between light and dark mode
Use Alt + V to bring up the View menu to zoom in, out, or return to actual size
Ctrl + Shift + = to zoom in
Ctrl + - to zoom out
Ctrl + 0 for actual size
Use the View button to zoom in, out, or return to actual size
[Command]+[+] to zoom in
[Command]+[-] to zoom out
[Command]+[0] for actual size
Zoom in, zoom out, or view actual size
Up arrow after sending a message
[Command]+Shift+[E]
Edit the last message sent
Ctrl + P
[Command]+[I]
Show conversation profile
Ctrl + Shift + A
[Command]+Shift+[A]
Add people to conversation
Ctrl + Shift + U
[Command]+Shift+[U]
Mark as unread
Ctrl + Shift + K
[Command]+Shift+[K]
Start a video call
Ctrl + Shift + P
[Command]+Shift+[R]
Start an audio call
Ctrl + Shift + F
[Command]+Shift+[F]
Send a file
Enter
Return
Start a PSTN call
Ctrl + Shift + G
[Command]+Shift+[G]
Open gallery
Ctrl + S
[Command]+[S]
Take a snapshot
Ctrl + E
[Command]+Shift+[H]
Hang up
Ctrl + M
[Command]+Shift+[M]
Toggle mute
Down Arrow
[Command]+[Down Arrow]
Select the next message in the chat list
Up Arrow
[Command]+[Up Arrow]
Select the previous message in the chat list
 
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
 
From: P. Otter
Sent: Friday, July 13, 2018 2:12 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problem with Skype
 

hi, tell me about it!
for a long time from the begin it was'nt accessible.
for example, it was'nt possible to pickup a call with a shortcut.
also to end a call.
if it is changed, tell me about it.
as far i know it was not accessible.
thanks in advance
paul otter

Op 12-7-2018 om 23:16 schreef David Moore:
Wow!
The Skype app for Win10 is very accessible, and so is Web Skype where you do everything right on a Skype website!
David Moore
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
 
From: Marco Oros
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2018 5:09 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problem with Skype
 
OK, maybe You didn't understand My pleasure. I would like to use 
accessible version of Skype, but I can't log in to previous version, 
which seens to be accessible.
Note: Skype 8 isn't very well accessible.
 
 
 
 

 


Re: chrome not that accessible in m.facebook.com

Sarah k Alawami
 

I don’t think chrome has an extension to have a user agent like thing. That would be nice.

On Jul 13, 2018, at 3:12 AM, Robert Mendoza <lowvisiontek@...> wrote:

Hi, what specific extensions do we need to install in Chrome to make the m.facebook works in Google. Care to share the link.

Robert Mendoza


On 7/13/2018 4:07 PM, Simone Dal Maso wrote:
if you want that m.facebook.com works for example like in Firefox, you should install an extension in Chrome that change your user agent.
In fact the mobile version of Chrome is different from the mobile version of Firefox.
I solved in this manner and now it works well!

Il 12/07/2018 21:33, Davy Cuppens ha scritto:
Mmm I find that this is not a nvda problem, it is not accessible as well with jfw18.
Regards
Davy
*From:* Davy Cuppens <mailto:davycuppens@...>
*Sent:* Thursday, July 12, 2018 9:23 PM
*To:* nvda@groups.io <mailto:nvda@groups.io>
*Subject:* [nvda] chrome not that accessible in m.facebook.com
Hi folks
I am making my first steps with chrome.
I find that sometimes buttons and elements are not clickable in m.facebook.com and that the tab key is not always responding normally.
F.e. if you click on a friend and wants him or her to be defriended, you can’t find that item or click the friend or follow button. I have already changed some settings like adding some accessibility tools to read webpages with the arrow keys and disabled the hardware accelerators which often is advised when working with screenreaders.
Regards
Davy








Re: How Do I Efficiently Navigate Websites Using Dynamic onMouseOver Menus with NVDA?

Jonathan COHN
 

Well, you can ask them to use menus that follow the advice in the W3C ARIA authoring practices. With the addition of a few keyboard handlers, aria-expanded and role=menu and role=menuitem it is possible to make these menus accessible not only for the blind but also for people who have mobility issues.

Often times, even though they claim to be mouse over, using the enter key with NVDA will still work, since NVDA will move the mouse to the mouse over location and then do a click action. Sometimes like this will open up a sub page that has the menu items activated, but also a page associated with the main area that was associated with the mouse over.

Also, it is possible to move the mouse and have NVDA read what is under the mouse. I believe that NVDA-numpad slash will route the mouse to where the NVDA focus is., which should then initiate the mouse over web action.

If you have specific sites in mind, that are causing you issues, I would be glad to look at them over the weekend.

Best Wishes,

Jonathan Cohn

On 7/13/18, 10:39 AM, "nvda@nvda.groups.io on behalf of Kenny" <nvda@nvda.groups.io on behalf of kwashingtonbox@gmail.com> wrote:

Good day,


I frequent several websites that use this annoying dynamic onMouseOver
menu system to reach various sub sections of their site.


Meaning you have a bunch of properly tagged graphics or text placed
horizontally along the top of the page. Hover the mouse over one and a
menu of options would dynamically appear vertically beneath it. Then you
navigate the mouse cursor to one, and left click it. You'll then be
taken to the associated sub section.


Is there an efficient way of navigating such dynamic menus using NVDA
Version: alpha-15495,f2cc115c? I use Google Chrome and MS Edge as my web
browser.


Thanks.


-Kenny


Re: difficulty with a certain website (yes, it's one o' those)

Gene
 

Here is more information and its important.
 
I just checked the site using Firefox and it appears the buttons aren't seen by Firefox.  I am using the older 52.x ESR version so I don't know if quantum sees the buttons.  I had previously checked with Chrome and I saw the buttons. 
 
So everything I said in my last message is important to keep in mind on unfamiliar pages but also, it is very important to have more than one browser available and to check sites with more than one if the site isn't useable with the one being used.  At times, the difference is dramatic.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Friday, July 13, 2018 10:30 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] difficulty with a certain website (yes, it's one o' those)

Did you follow the link to the page for the specific product?  Once there, how did you look at the page?  There are buttons on the page that say things like purchase CD.  It appears you didn't see them.  Did you use the links list, that limits the structures you are looking for to one structure?  Did you only move by link through the page by using a move to next link command?  Don't limit what you look for by structure on an unfamiliar page.  If you are taking a short cut to save time, use something that stops on almost every structure.  Tab Does.  But I don't think tab stops on clickable items that aren't links so even using tab, you may miss the structure.  If you don't see it, then do it the hard way.  Read or skim each line of the page below the navigation links at the top until you get to the navigation links, if any, at the bottom. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: JM Casey
Sent: Friday, July 13, 2018 9:56 AM
Subject: [nvda] difficulty with a certain website (yes, it's one o' those)

Hello everyone.

 

I’ve recently had an interest in a small, independent company based in the UK that creates audio dramas and adaptations of some horror classics. They are called Bafflegab Productions, and this is their site:

http://bafflegab.co.uk/

 

I must admit that I’ve been stymied by this website. Everything *appears* to be accessible enough, except for the key element: the ability to shop for and download their materials. I’ve tried both Firefox ESR and IE so far, and used both NVDA 18.3 and JAWS 18. I’ve hunted around the site, and the only clue I’ve found so far is a reference to bandcamp in the FAQ. Having noticed some recent frustrating issues with bandcamp and screen-readers, I know this could potentially be a problem, however I do not see how this could be preventing links to shop, log in or create an account, etc, from being visible to screen-readers.

 

I’ve already written the head man at the company about this and explained my difficulty, but I’m writing to the list to see if anyone else wants to have a go, and/or can point me to something I might be missing that might clue me in as to how one goes about acquiring anything from these fellows if not a mouse/screen user. I haven’t yet had a sighted person look at the website to see what they might make of it, but that’s also a next step. I’m hoping to get some kind of accessibility dialogue going with the company, so am trying to gather more info that might not immediately be apparent to me. Then again, it could be that I’m just missing something terribly obvious that someone else here could point out! So, what does anyone here make of it?

 

 


Request for a new NVDA feature

Akshaya Choudhary
 

Someone on reddit told me that in Voice Dream Reader you can control the duration of the pauses after punctuation and sentence break. It would be great to have similar feature for NVDA.  SAPI 5 voices do provide intonation pauses, but they also provide pauses after command keys, which makes them slow for general navigation. Maybe, we could have a feature enabling the users to toggle between extended pauses and short pauses.  For general navigation short pauses will be great, like they are in Espeak, and for reading long documents long pauses would be very helpful, like they are in SAPI 5 voices.
Someone please introduce this feature.  --
--
Regards,
Sociohack


Re: pauses after punctuation and sentence end in different speech synthesizers

Akshaya Choudhary
 

Hahah, Hazel should definitely get an appearance fee.

Someone on reddit told me that in Voice Dream Reader you can control the duration of the pauses after punctuation and sentence break. It would be great to have similar feature for NVDA.  SAPI 5 voices do provide intonation pauses, but they also provide pauses after command keys, which makes them slow for general navigation. Maybe, we could have a feature enabling the users to toggle between extended pauses and short pauses.  For general navigation short pauses will be great, like they are in Espeak, and for reading long documents long pauses would be very helpful, like they are in SAPI 5 voices.
Someone please introduce this feature.  --
Regards,
Sociohack


Re: difficulty with a certain website (yes, it's one o' those)

Gene
 

Did you follow the link to the page for the specific product?  Once there, how did you look at the page?  There are buttons on the page that say things like purchase CD.  It appears you didn't see them.  Did you use the links list, that limits the structures you are looking for to one structure?  Did you only move by link through the page by using a move to next link command?  Don't limit what you look for by structure on an unfamiliar page.  If you are taking a short cut to save time, use something that stops on almost every structure.  Tab Does.  But I don't think tab stops on clickable items that aren't links so even using tab, you may miss the structure.  If you don't see it, then do it the hard way.  Read or skim each line of the page below the navigation links at the top until you get to the navigation links, if any, at the bottom. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: JM Casey
Sent: Friday, July 13, 2018 9:56 AM
Subject: [nvda] difficulty with a certain website (yes, it's one o' those)

Hello everyone.

 

I’ve recently had an interest in a small, independent company based in the UK that creates audio dramas and adaptations of some horror classics. They are called Bafflegab Productions, and this is their site:

http://bafflegab.co.uk/

 

I must admit that I’ve been stymied by this website. Everything *appears* to be accessible enough, except for the key element: the ability to shop for and download their materials. I’ve tried both Firefox ESR and IE so far, and used both NVDA 18.3 and JAWS 18. I’ve hunted around the site, and the only clue I’ve found so far is a reference to bandcamp in the FAQ. Having noticed some recent frustrating issues with bandcamp and screen-readers, I know this could potentially be a problem, however I do not see how this could be preventing links to shop, log in or create an account, etc, from being visible to screen-readers.

 

I’ve already written the head man at the company about this and explained my difficulty, but I’m writing to the list to see if anyone else wants to have a go, and/or can point me to something I might be missing that might clue me in as to how one goes about acquiring anything from these fellows if not a mouse/screen user. I haven’t yet had a sighted person look at the website to see what they might make of it, but that’s also a next step. I’m hoping to get some kind of accessibility dialogue going with the company, so am trying to gather more info that might not immediately be apparent to me. Then again, it could be that I’m just missing something terribly obvious that someone else here could point out! So, what does anyone here make of it?

 

 


difficulty with a certain website (yes, it's one o' those)

JM Casey <crystallogic@...>
 

Hello everyone.

 

I’ve recently had an interest in a small, independent company based in the UK that creates audio dramas and adaptations of some horror classics. They are called Bafflegab Productions, and this is their site:

http://bafflegab.co.uk/

 

I must admit that I’ve been stymied by this website. Everything *appears* to be accessible enough, except for the key element: the ability to shop for and download their materials. I’ve tried both Firefox ESR and IE so far, and used both NVDA 18.3 and JAWS 18. I’ve hunted around the site, and the only clue I’ve found so far is a reference to bandcamp in the FAQ. Having noticed some recent frustrating issues with bandcamp and screen-readers, I know this could potentially be a problem, however I do not see how this could be preventing links to shop, log in or create an account, etc, from being visible to screen-readers.

 

I’ve already written the head man at the company about this and explained my difficulty, but I’m writing to the list to see if anyone else wants to have a go, and/or can point me to something I might be missing that might clue me in as to how one goes about acquiring anything from these fellows if not a mouse/screen user. I haven’t yet had a sighted person look at the website to see what they might make of it, but that’s also a next step. I’m hoping to get some kind of accessibility dialogue going with the company, so am trying to gather more info that might not immediately be apparent to me. Then again, it could be that I’m just missing something terribly obvious that someone else here could point out! So, what does anyone here make of it?

 

 


Re: pauses after punctuation and sentence end in different speech synthesizers

Giles Turnbull
 

I tried to find a way to do this not too long ago. I sometimes use NVDA to perform poetry I've written at my poetry readings, but the answers I received were that the length of pauses is not controlable via NVDA, it is dependent on whichever voice you are using.

You basically have the length of a comma and the length of a full stop / period, and that's it. I do not detect any difference in the length of pause for a semicolon compared to a comma. There is no way to use two full stops to get a double length pause, nor to combine a comma with a full stop to get like a full stop and a half of pausing! Likewise, with my preferred poetry performance voice, Hazel (Microsoft SAPI5) there is no raised intonation to indicate a question mark, where in other voices (Microsoft Zira, for example) the question mark is clearly audible.

I used to own a pair of Orcam glasses and ran into the same problem with the length of pauses with that system. Just the comma / semicolon and the full stop were the only two pauses. Dashes, m-dashes and n-dashes produce no pause at all in any of the voices I've tried.

One thing that made me smile was that I'm scheduled to read in Torquay, south England, in October and on the flyers my event is listed as Giles and Hazel ... maybe I can make a case for Hazel getting an appearance fee too ;)

Sorry not to have better news on the pausing question. I remain hopeful that one day a solution will be found for this, but I think it lies in the hands of the creators of the different voices.

Giles


How Do I Efficiently Navigate Websites Using Dynamic onMouseOver Menus with NVDA?

Kenny <kwashingtonbox@...>
 

Good day,


I frequent several websites that use this annoying dynamic onMouseOver menu system to reach various sub sections of their site.


Meaning you have a bunch of properly tagged graphics or text placed horizontally along the top of the page. Hover the mouse over one and a menu of options would dynamically appear vertically beneath it. Then you navigate the mouse cursor to one, and left click it. You'll then be taken to the associated sub section.


Is there an efficient way of navigating such dynamic menus using NVDA Version: alpha-15495,f2cc115c? I use Google Chrome and MS Edge as my web browser.


Thanks.


-Kenny


Re: nvda + firefox has bug about donamically combo box?

Jonathan COHN
 

Try running the page with the Firefox console visible and see if it generates any errors. To open the Firefox console use control-shift-K or open the tools menu and go to web authoring.

The Firefox console uses a live region, so NVDA should speak any updates in the consule while it is visible.

Jonathan Cohn


On 7/13/18, 2:25 AM, "nvda@nvda.groups.io on behalf of 特種兵" <nvda@nvda.groups.io on behalf of afreettears@gmail.com> wrote:

hi all:

I think I found a bug in the Firefox browser that NVDA actually does.
In a web page, changing the value of the combo box also dynamically
changes the value of the subsequent edit area.
In this case, we all use the brows mode and set to manually switch
between focus mode and browse mode.
Using the results of the nvda + firefox test, when you first change the
combo box from "personal" to "company",
you can get the latest title when using the tab key to the editing area,
which is the "company name" and "company pc.
But when we change the value of the combo box from the "company" to the
"personal" again,
we use the tab again to move to the editing area. The title we hear is
still the company name and the company pc.
Both the changed innerHTML and innerText properties have the same status.
But using nvda with other browsers like google chrome or internet
explorer or even edge can hear the correct title in any situation.
I provide a web page of my own design for everyone to test and see. I
found the results of the three computers are the same.
This has nothing to do with the NVDA or Firefox version, because I have
tested several combinations and the results are the same.
Has anyone found this interesting question?

Http://logo.gaga.tw/test_change_label_innerhtml.html

--

thank you for much
Logo Kuo from Taiwan


Re: nvda + firefox has bug about donamically combo box?

特種兵
 


  do you change combo box over 2 times?


thank you for much
Logo Kuo from Taiwan
Chris via Groups.Io 於 2018/7/13 下午 04:12 寫道:

Nope, works ok here :D

 

From: 特種兵
Sent: 13 July 2018 07:22
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] nvda + firefox has bug about donamically combo box?

 

hi all:

 

I think I found a bug in the Firefox browser that NVDA actually does.

In a web page, changing the value of the combo box also dynamically

changes the value of the subsequent edit area.

In this case, we all use the brows mode and set to manually switch

between focus mode and browse mode.

Using the results of the nvda + firefox test, when you first change the

combo box from "personal" to "company",

you can get the latest title when using the tab key to the editing area,

which is the "company name" and "company pc.

But when we change the value of the combo box from the "company" to the

"personal" again,

we use the tab again to move to the editing area. The title we hear is

still the company name and the company pc.

Both the changed innerHTML and innerText properties have the same status.

But using nvda with other browsers like google chrome or internet

explorer or even edge can hear the correct title in any situation.

I provide a web page of my own design for everyone to test and see. I

found the results of the three computers are the same.

This has nothing to do with the NVDA or Firefox version, because I have

tested several combinations and the results are the same.

Has anyone found this interesting question?

 

Http://logo.gaga.tw/test_change_label_innerhtml.html

 

--

 

thank you for much

Logo Kuo from Taiwan

 

 

 

 



Re: chrome not that accessible in m.facebook.com

Robert Mendoza
 

Hi, what specific extensions do we need to install in Chrome to make the m.facebook works in Google. Care to share the link.

Robert Mendoza

On 7/13/2018 4:07 PM, Simone Dal Maso wrote:
if you want that m.facebook.com works for example like in Firefox, you should install an extension in Chrome that change your user agent.
In fact the mobile version of Chrome is different from the mobile version of Firefox.
I solved in this manner and now it works well!

Il 12/07/2018 21:33, Davy Cuppens ha scritto:
Mmm I find that this is not a nvda problem, it is not accessible as well with jfw18.
Regards
Davy
*From:* Davy Cuppens <mailto:davycuppens@gmail.com>
*Sent:* Thursday, July 12, 2018 9:23 PM
*To:* nvda@groups.io <mailto:nvda@groups.io>
*Subject:* [nvda] chrome not that accessible in m.facebook.com
Hi folks
I am making my first steps with chrome.
I find that sometimes buttons and elements are not clickable in m.facebook.com and that the tab key is not always responding normally.
F.e. if you click on a friend and wants him or her to be defriended, you can’t find that item or click the friend or follow button. I have already changed some settings like adding some accessibility tools to read webpages with the arrow keys and disabled the hardware accelerators which often is advised when working with screenreaders.
Regards
Davy


Re: Problem with Skype

P. Otter
 

thanks, this is clear!
cheers
paul otter


Op 13-7-2018 om 09:52 schreef David Moore:

Hi!

The Skype app has become much more accessible!

Here is a table of key commands for the skype app.

The table gives the Windows and the Mac command for each action.

Here it is:

What are hotkeys and how do I use them in Skype?

Keyboard shortcuts are specific combinations of two or more keys on your keyboard. They make it easier and faster for you to use commands that you would otherwise have to access via the menus. You can use keyboard shortcuts to easily quit Skype, send a file, copy text and a lot more.

Hotkeys in Skype (version 8) for Windows Desktop, and Mac

Windows desktop Hotkey

Mac Hotkey

Action

Not applicable

[Command]+[1]

Open the main Skype window

Ctrl + I

[Command]+Shift+[O]

Open Notification panel

Ctrl + , (Ctrl + comma)

[Command]+[Comma]

Open app settings

Ctrl + H

Not applicable

Open Help in default browser

Ctrl + D

[Command]+[2]

Launch main dial pad

Ctrl + N

[Command]+[N]

Start new conversation

Ctrl + G

[Command]+[G]

New group

Ctrl + F

[Command]+[F]

Search for all contacts, messages and bots

Ctrl + Shift + S

[Command]+Shift+[S]

Search within selected message

Alt + 1

Not applicable

Navigate to recent chats

Alt + 2

[Command]+Shift+[C]

Open contacts

Alt + 3

[Command]+Shift+[B]

Open contact screen to bots

Ctrl + O

[Command]+Option+[O]

Send feedback

Ctrl + R

[Command]+[R]

Refresh the app

Ctrl + T

[Command]+[T]

Open themes

Ctrl + Shift + T

[Command]+Shift+[T]

Toggle between light and dark mode

Use Alt + V to bring up the View menu to zoom in, out, or return to actual size

Ctrl + Shift + = to zoom in

Ctrl + - to zoom out

Ctrl + 0 for actual size

Use the View button to zoom in, out, or return to actual size

[Command]+[+] to zoom in

[Command]+[-] to zoom out

[Command]+[0] for actual size

Zoom in, zoom out, or view actual size

Up arrow after sending a message

[Command]+Shift+[E]

Edit the last message sent

Ctrl + P

[Command]+[I]

Show conversation profile

Ctrl + Shift + A

[Command]+Shift+[A]

Add people to conversation

Ctrl + Shift + U

[Command]+Shift+[U]

Mark as unread

Ctrl + Shift + K

[Command]+Shift+[K]

Start a video call

Ctrl + Shift + P

[Command]+Shift+[R]

Start an audio call

Ctrl + Shift + F

[Command]+Shift+[F]

Send a file

Enter

Return

Start a PSTN call

Ctrl + Shift + G

[Command]+Shift+[G]

Open gallery

Ctrl + S

[Command]+[S]

Take a snapshot

Ctrl + E

[Command]+Shift+[H]

Hang up

Ctrl + M

[Command]+Shift+[M]

Toggle mute

Down Arrow

[Command]+[Down Arrow]

Select the next message in the chat list

Up Arrow

[Command]+[Up Arrow]

Select the previous message in the chat list

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: P. Otter
Sent: Friday, July 13, 2018 2:12 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problem with Skype

 

hi, tell me about it!
for a long time from the begin it was'nt accessible.
for example, it was'nt possible to pickup a call with a shortcut.
also to end a call.
if it is changed, tell me about it.
as far i know it was not accessible.
thanks in advance
paul otter

Op 12-7-2018 om 23:16 schreef David Moore:

Wow!

The Skype app for Win10 is very accessible, and so is Web Skype where you do everything right on a Skype website!

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Marco Oros
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2018 5:09 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problem with Skype

 

OK, maybe You didn't understand My pleasure. I would like to use

accessible version of Skype, but I can't log in to previous version,

which seens to be accessible.

Note: Skype 8 isn't very well accessible.