So I listened to a very nice podcast about one of the new Narrator features on the Insiders build, the start guide. I fired up Narrator, just to see what it was like. Opened Firefox, and Narrator pretty much wouldn't read or navigate a site, Youtube as it happens. Popped NVDA back on, and it worked just fine.


Not to turn this into a Narrator thread, but does Narrator only work, or mostly work, with Microsoft apps? I periodically test Narrator because it's there so why not? Plus Windows is integrating it more, e.g. you can supposedly install 10 from scratch using Narrator, Narrator in safe mode, and so on. I figure that makes it worth getting familiar with if for no other reason than I'll know how to use it when it's the thing I'll need to use. But it's gonna be hard to become familiar with it if it doesn't work with chunks of the stuff I use. Is there a Narrator list or something, like this list basically? I tried looking around for something like "using Microsoft narrator with Firefox", but I just get stuff about using Narrator generally or occasional reviews of using older versions of Narrator.


I'm thankful Microsoft is making accessibility a bigger priority and giving us things like installation and safe mode, well I've never really tried either but you know, I'm glad they're there if something comes up. But for me, Narrator's nowhere near NVDA. I know some people have implied that it is, and I'm not trying to make this a fight or anything. So I'm sort of trying to find out, you know does all of this great functionality come from sticking solely to Microsoft's stuff? Because I don't get the hype. I can't imagine using it as my primary screen reader for any length of time. People say it's getting closer to things like NVDA. But for me, I just don't see it. Am I missing something? Because right now I think my dream scenario would be NVDA from power on, or as close as it could be managed.

Hi,
If I remember correctly, the layout of Skype 8 for Desktop is essentially a web document. Note that for Windows 10 users, you'll be redirected to UWP version, although that, too, is changing (more to come later).
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene New Zealand
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2018 1:28 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft is Killing Skype Classic on September 1 -

Hi


How much more different is skype 8 from the desk top app? I just went into the desk top version and i think it has been upgraded and looks like the app version on windows 10 Or am i getting it wrong? I think the skype 8 version will when you hit alt ke

+ lettr F will do a drop down menu but i think that is in the app as well?

I am just going to check if it is skype 8 and see how much different if it is as there is a tutorial for the app version.

Gene nz

On 7/17/2018 5:28 AM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

https://www.thurrott.com/cloud/microsoft-consumer-services/skype/16333
7/microsoft-killing-skype-classic-september-1

Hi,
We'll see. Right now, it is too early to talk about what's coming in Skype
14 (the next version of Skype for Windows 10 users), but suffice to say that
I'm keeping a very close eye on changes.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2018 1:43 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft is Killing Skype Classic on September 1 -

Well I hope that the end of skype7 sees more access and ease of use put into
skype now.




On 7/17/2018 8:30 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,
If I remember correctly, the layout of Skype 8 for Desktop is essentially
a web document. Note that for Windows 10 users, you'll be redirected to
UWP version, although that, too, is changing (more to come later).
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene New
Zealand
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2018 1:28 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft is Killing Skype Classic on September 1 -

Hi


How much more different is skype 8 from the desk top app? I just went into
the desk top version and i think it has been upgraded and looks like the
app version on windows 10 Or am i getting it wrong? I think the skype 8
version will when you hit alt ke

+ lettr F will do a drop down menu but i think that is in the app as
well?

I am just going to check if it is skype 8 and see how much different if it
is as there is a tutorial for the app version.

Gene nz

On 7/17/2018 5:28 AM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

https://www.thurrott.com/cloud/microsoft-consumer-services/skype/16333
7/microsoft-killing-skype-classic-september-1

To be honest though that would count for me for every upgrade.

I updated from dos to windows because of hardware and the fact I wanted more than 1 task.

I updated from win95 to win 98 because I could.

I updated from 98 to xp because of better drivers support etc.

I updated from xp to 7 because of security reasons and my computer died.

But I could have continued on xp for ever more.

I will update to 10 because of firstly security and secondly, I can't use anything over 6th generation pluss win7 is about dead anyway.

But if I had the choice I'd still be on stable xp.




On 7/17/2018 9:35 AM, Gene wrote:

Are there features you want or apps you want to run that you can't run now? If you have a reason to upgrade such as that, you may want to. If you are more curious and have no strong reason to do so, I have real reservations about whether its worth upgrading a computer you are satisfied with.

You may find some problem or annoyance you really don't want to deal with and you may not be happy if you upgrade just to upgrade and have one or more annoying problems, even if you solve them. And Windows 10 comes out with a major upgrade every six months, which you must accept. Some people have problems after an upgrade.

You might want to consider getting a tablet to play with Windows 10 if you are just getting it out of curiosity and not because of features or apps you consider important.

Gene


From: Rob DeZonia
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2018 1:43 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] New to list, newbie question, everything new starts here I guess


Howdy list,

I am running Windows 7. Lately I'm starting to feel like the guy running XP when there's a better option available. I remember when Windows 10 first came out NVDA advised not upgrading yet. I realize that was many Windows 10 updates and a few NVDA releases ago. My question is, since you are all it seems experienced users, should I take the plunge finally? How steep is the learning curve on Windows 10, and is Edge workable with NVDA? Also I'm curious about apps since I've never tried Windows 8.1 either.
Thanks for your help and your attention.

Personally, I am still using 7, and soon I will purchase a Windows 8 upgrade, and I will wait until the end of Windows 7’s life cycle.
Then I will do the same with 8.
I have tried 10, and don’t much like it.
But it is what it is.
Glenn


From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rob DeZonia
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2018 1:44 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [SUSPECTED SPAM] [nvda] New to list, newbie question, everything new starts here I guess

Howdy list,

I am running Windows 7. Lately I'm starting to feel like the guy running XP when there's a better option available. I remember when Windows 10 first came out NVDA advised not upgrading yet. I realize that was many Windows 10 updates and a few NVDA releases ago. My question is, since you are all it seems experienced users, should I take the plunge finally? How steep is the learning curve on Windows 10, and is Edge workable with NVDA? Also I'm curious about apps since I've never tried Windows 8.1 either.
Thanks for your help and your attention.

On Jul 16, 2018, at 1:03 PM, ely.r@comcast.net wrote:

Gene, ,
No, I fully understand the list position. The issue is theft.
However when it comes to software, it is easy to convince one’s self that it doesn’t really hurt anyone as they will never know. Sorry if this sounds pretentious , but I have been and friends have been on the opposite side of this issue, and it can make a real difference for a developer who puts in enormous time creating software and knowing that a percent of copies are simply Pirated.
Rick


From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2018 1:45 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Admin. Important. On promoting illegal software

The question isn't whether NVDA has adequate selection of synthesizers nor whether it is free. The question is whether the list should be exposed to legal liability by the promotion of any kind of illegal software.

If someone promoted illegal software to perform OCR, the same restriction would apply or to an illegal word processing program.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: ely.r@comcast.net <mailto:ely.r@comcast.net>
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2018 12:32 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Admin. Important. On promoting illegal software

Gene
Thanks for this post. I have been wondering over the last few days what the position of the list owner would be on supporting the illegal piracy of software. NVDA comes free to those who cannot afford the cost of a screen reader. NVDA has a more than adequate selection of synthesizers as part of its install. Our visual conditions, whatever they may be, do not include an exemption for theft.
Again thanks for your reminder,
Rick



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> <nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2018 1:02 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: [nvda] Admin. Important. On promoting illegal software

I'm sending this as an administrative message along with sending it in the thread where this problem is currently occurring. I have slightly expanded this message with another explanatory comment.

I've stated before, as much as two or three days ago, that promoting illegal software is not, I emphatically repeat not, allowed on list. This is not my policy. It is the policy of the list owner and it is standard policy on a lot of lists. Gratuitously mentioning and impliedly recommending illegal software is not allowed.

If someone wants to express a general opinion about when it is ethically acceptable to use illegal software, as I understand list policy, that is allowed. Promoting or discussing specific programs is not.

I support this list policy. It doesn't matter what my personal feelings are about when and if it is justifiable to use illegal software as an ethical question. As moderator, I am responsible for enforcing list policy. The policy is in place not because of the views of those who run the list on the the question. It is in place because promoting illegal software exposes the list to legal liability. If people continue to disregard my warnings on this subject, they will be moderated temporarily. I'm sorry to have to send this kind of stern message. I moderate with a lite toch whenever possible. But it's time for such discussions and implied endorsements to stop.

Gene, Moderator

Hi,
If I remember correctly, the layout of Skype 8 for Desktop is essentially a web document. Note that for Windows 10 users, you'll be redirected to UWP version, although that, too, is changing (more to come later).
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene New Zealand
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2018 1:28 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft is Killing Skype Classic on September 1 -

Hi


How much more different is skype 8 from the desk top app? I just went into the desk top version and i think it has been upgraded and looks like the app version on windows 10 Or am i getting it wrong? I think the skype 8 version will when you hit alt ke

+ lettr F will do a drop down menu but i think that is in the app as well?

I am just going to check if it is skype 8 and see how much different if it is as there is a tutorial for the app version.

Gene nz

On 7/17/2018 5:28 AM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

https://www.thurrott.com/cloud/microsoft-consumer-services/skype/16333
7/microsoft-killing-skype-classic-september-1

Hi,
If I remember correctly, the layout of Skype 8 for Desktop is essentially a web document. Note that for Windows 10 users, you'll be redirected to UWP version, although that, too, is changing (more to come later).
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene New Zealand
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2018 1:28 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft is Killing Skype Classic on September 1 -

Hi


How much more different is skype 8 from the desk top app? I just went into the desk top version and i think it has been upgraded and looks like the app version on windows 10 Or am i getting it wrong? I think the skype 8 version will when you hit alt ke

+ lettr F will do a drop down menu but i think that is in the app as well?

I am just going to check if it is skype 8 and see how much different if it is as there is a tutorial for the app version.

Gene nz

On 7/17/2018 5:28 AM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

https://www.thurrott.com/cloud/microsoft-consumer-services/skype/16333
7/microsoft-killing-skype-classic-september-1

Hi, Shaun were you able to test and try the Skype apps in Windows 10?
As far I noticed from the apps unlikely loads so slow not sure if this is normal or does you heard of anything to others the same scenario

But I played around awhile some basic keystroke shared by David Moore in the earlier post. I could not go further to extend my judgement in terms of interface, but seems doable and consider as alternative option in case September comes fully in place.

Robert Mendoza


On 7/17/2018 1:10 PM, Shaun Everiss wrote:

Well aparently new skype is supposed to be having the same interface so maybe I try it and see.




On 7/17/2018 3:06 PM, Robert Mendoza wrote:

Alright then, Shaun I will wait further instructions more on how to shift to new line of Skype version from here but surely the rest of the folks here are vastly impacted by this killing of the classic interface if there will be a time to be out in the space soon for sure the pressure will be more intense as it was generally specially for the blind who uses themselves the classic for their job calls, Or rather look for alternative VOIP service that is accessible

Robert Mendoza


On 7/17/2018 8:07 AM, Shaun Everiss wrote:

Every platform, however to be honest you will have to learn the new skype if you need it I for myself don't but if you do you will have to use the new one as best as you can.




On 7/17/2018 10:35 AM, Robert Mendoza wrote:

Hi, can someone validate this statement are true for the sake of the welfare of others. For I know it's been almost years been using Skype for call and video conferencing to my folks. And how this will be going to be severely impacted some of us using of the Skype. The reason of this is because here in my area some of the folks and businesses uses Skype for their jobs, and useful to consider as well. Better to provide link that could shed details for this matter.Is this concern for the Windows 10 only or to other platform?

Robert Mendoza


On 7/17/2018 5:56 AM, Eleni Vamvakari wrote:

I'm on a family plan with TMobile. It's unlimited, with no overage
charges.  But iy ou use a certain amount of data in one month, they
throttle the connection, making it much slower.  I only use it during
the day when in the backyard or when on trips. Otherwise, I use our
home wifi, so it's not an issue.  I would never use a pay as you go
plan, because I use the Internet for many hours per day, and my Skype
conversations are a minimum of three hours each.

I don't pay for the home wifi, and other things, which are not mine,
are connected to it.  Plus, my parents know very little about
computers, so I'm not going to play with their modem.

On 16/07/2018, Steve Nutt <steve@comproom.co.uk> wrote:

Hi Sean,

I like Chrome, so therefore, I like hangouts.  I'd rather have Chrome than
Edge any day.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss
Sent: 16 July 2018 22:35
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft is Killing Skype Classic on September 1 -

I am not exactly happy with leaving skype, since skype has been something I
have had to use on and off, however while there was a potential time that I
may have had to use skype, fact is there for business it never happened that
way.

Hangouts needs chrome, I would really like a stand alone client if I could
have that.

I have not decided but I may try to learn the new skype, however a lot of
family use whats app on a newer mobile device and there is also skype and
others and who knows.

I like my pc though.




On 7/17/2018 9:25 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:

This is a serious question from someone who is aware of Skype, and dabbled
with it, but never adopted it for regular use:   Why is this such an
issue?

It doesn't just seem to me, but it's been confirmed here, that there are
many alternatives to Skype many of which are accessible. It will also be
interesting to see what UI interface changes occur, particularly with
regard to accessibility, with Skype 8.0.
--

Brian *-* Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134

     A little kindness from person to person is better than a vast love for
all humankind.

             ~ Richard Dehmel

.

https://www.thurrott.com/cloud/microsoft-consumer-services/skype/16333
7/microsoft-killing-skype-classic-september-1

https://www.thurrott.com/cloud/microsoft-consumer-services/skype/163337/microsoft-killing-skype-classic-september-1

Well aparently new skype is supposed to be having the same interface so maybe I try it and see.




On 7/17/2018 3:06 PM, Robert Mendoza wrote:

Alright then, Shaun I will wait further instructions more on how to shift to new line of Skype version from here but surely the rest of the folks here are vastly impacted by this killing of the classic interface if there will be a time to be out in the space soon for sure the pressure will be more intense as it was generally specially for the blind who uses themselves the classic for their job calls, Or rather look for alternative VOIP service that is accessible

Robert Mendoza


On 7/17/2018 8:07 AM, Shaun Everiss wrote:

Every platform, however to be honest you will have to learn the new skype if you need it I for myself don't but if you do you will have to use the new one as best as you can.




On 7/17/2018 10:35 AM, Robert Mendoza wrote:

Hi, can someone validate this statement are true for the sake of the welfare of others. For I know it's been almost years been using Skype for call and video conferencing to my folks. And how this will be going to be severely impacted some of us using of the Skype. The reason of this is because here in my area some of the folks and businesses uses Skype for their jobs, and useful to consider as well. Better to provide link that could shed details for this matter.Is this concern for the Windows 10 only or to other platform?

Robert Mendoza


On 7/17/2018 5:56 AM, Eleni Vamvakari wrote:

I'm on a family plan with TMobile. It's unlimited, with no overage
charges.  But iy ou use a certain amount of data in one month, they
throttle the connection, making it much slower.  I only use it during
the day when in the backyard or when on trips.  Otherwise, I use our
home wifi, so it's not an issue.  I would never use a pay as you go
plan, because I use the Internet for many hours per day, and my Skype
conversations are a minimum of three hours each.

I don't pay for the home wifi, and other things, which are not mine,
are connected to it.  Plus, my parents know very little about
computers, so I'm not going to play with their modem.

On 16/07/2018, Steve Nutt <steve@comproom.co.uk> wrote:

Hi Sean,

I like Chrome, so therefore, I like hangouts.  I'd rather have Chrome than
Edge any day.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss
Sent: 16 July 2018 22:35
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft is Killing Skype Classic on September 1 -

I am not exactly happy with leaving skype, since skype has been something I
have had to use on and off, however while there was a potential time that I
may have had to use skype, fact is there for business it never happened that
way.

Hangouts needs chrome, I would really like a stand alone client if I could
have that.

I have not decided but I may try to learn the new skype, however a lot of
family use whats app on a newer mobile device and there is also skype and
others and who knows.

I like my pc though.




On 7/17/2018 9:25 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:

This is a serious question from someone who is aware of Skype, and dabbled
with it, but never adopted it for regular use:   Why is this such an
issue?

It doesn't just seem to me, but it's been confirmed here, that there are
many alternatives to Skype many of which are accessible. It will also be
interesting to see what UI interface changes occur, particularly with
regard to accessibility, with Skype 8.0.
--

Brian *-* Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134

     A little kindness from person to person is better than a vast love for
all humankind.

             ~ Richard Dehmel

.

Odd, yeah I can get around it very very quickly. It pretty  much is
like skype 8 on the mac, very easy to flip between stuff.

On Jul 16, 2018, at 1:52 PM, John Isige <gwynn@tds.net
<mailto:gwynn@tds.net>> wrote:

Pretty sure Skype for Win. 10 doesn't have menus. I'm not talking
about Skype 8, but Skype for Win. 10. It mostly works, though it's
kind of slow, but I haven't gotten sending files to work from it yet,
though I did receive one the other day. If classic's going away,
that's what I'll be using and I think that's the one feature I
haven't gotten working yet.


On 7/16/2018 15:48, Ervin, Glenn wrote:

I have done it through the menus, I haven't tried a hotkey for it.
Glenn

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>> On Behalf Of John
Isige
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2018 3:48 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft is Killing Skype Classic on September
1 -

Have you gotten sending files to work in Skype on Windows 10? If so,
how? I'm fairly sure the keystroke is supposed to be shift-ctrl-f to
send a file but I've never gotten it to work, it does something else
instead, can't recall what at the moment and I'm not on the machine
running it to check.

Actually, Eloquence is beaten now for best pronunciation, by a synth that is not on Windows.  Google TTS beats Eloquence hands down for pronunciation.  I can’t find anything in the dictionary that it pronounces wrong, but I can with Eloquence.  For example, Samhain, a Pagan festival is pronounced Sowan with a hard OW as in Cow, Eloquence completely mangles that and pronounces it Samhain as spelled.

Google One, Eloquence definitely Nil.

All the best

Steve

I have found that what I am listening to makes a difference too.
If it is too fast, and there is a great deal of specifics to analyze, the information may need to be read at a slower speed.  If it is more conversational like, then a higher speed works because we can mentally predict the flow of the writing.
Glenn


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2018 2:58 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Tips for speed reading /listening with screen readers

Unfortunately I think it depends on the person. I know people who regularly read so fast I simply cannot understand it. I also find that it gives me a headache if I set it too fast.
 I imagine it depends on the person, what their first language is and if they are listening in it and also the actual voice and synth in use.
 I never get anywhere near 95, but then I have no pressing need to most times.

I do find the more artifical voices better at spead than the so called human sounding ones probably due to the  whay certain sylables aare handled.

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sociohack AC" <acsociopath@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2018 10:22 AM
Subject: [nvda] Tips for speed reading /listening with screen readers


Hello season users of screen readers!
Advice me on this. I'm a student and require to read large texts on regular
basis. Although, this is something I love doing, it would be very beneficial
if I could improve my reading, or shall I say listening speed, with NVDA. I
would like to retain the same level of comprehension I have right now at
higher speeds. I have gradually moved up my way to 95% without boost in
NVDA, so I know it could be done. But, I'm finding it difficult to move
forward. Also, beyond 95% and in boost mode Espeak MAx starts to flutter. It
is still very comprehensible, but the fluttering voice is annoying. Can you
guys suggest me ways to upgrade my listening game? Do I need to switch to a
different variant voice of Espeak or shall I change my synthesizer? Is there
a cap to how fast can we listen?
All suggestions are welcome!
Also let me know at what speed rates do you guys read your screen readers
on/

Regards