Date   

Re: VFO not complimentary about NVDA

Antony Stone
 

Sarah: Thank you for the further description and information about the
situation you were in.

It's always a pity when organisations choose the technology solution (or
vendor) first, and then look at the budget second (thereby eliminating the
chosen solution with no option to consider an alternative), rather than
looking at what's availavle do what's needed and then consider the
functionality + cost in combination.

Maybe NVaccess should have a dual-licensing model (like many open source
projects use), which means you can use the software for free, or you can pay
for it and get a support contract just like you expect to have with closed
source proprietary software.


Antony.

On Thursday 19 July 2018 at 01:11:29, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

[Edited Message Follows]
[Reason: just edited some quirks.]

I was actually working for these companies, writing lesson plans etc on
Microsoft word. They were on surface things. I told them I would rather
use nvda, they said, no, you can use jaws. I had no choice. They train
their students with jaws. They would not even consider talking typing
teacher, they didn’t even know about it. Let’s say, I didn’t last long
even though I gave them budget and materials and cost of things they would
need for the children. They just said it would cost too much and we'll
look into it next year. They did say that I did an excellent job writing
the lesson plans and end goals for the children though, but the programs
I was going to start never took off. I probably would have done a lot
better and finished the job in half the time though had I used nvda and
word on the surface thing.

On Jul 18, 2018, at 1:38 PM, Antony Stone
<antony.stone@...> wrote:

What you say may be true, but I got the impression from Sarah's email
that she was not an employee in these companies, but was talking to
employers in the capacity of a trainer for assistive technologies.
--
I'm not impossible, just highly implausible.

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.


Re: Skype 8 for desktop answering incoming call?

Jackie
 

ctrl d also opens the dial pad.

On 7/18/18, Gene New Zealand <hurrikennyandopo@...> wrote:
Hi


Have a look down the bottom you can quickly jump down by B for buttons until
you get to use dial pad then arrow down. There will be 4 tabs there one is
chats then press the enter key on it then arrow down. it will have chats
there old and new from people.


I would have to have a look under contacts and see if you can get the chat
stuff from that person as well.


hope this helps.


Gene nz


On 7/19/2018 8:18 AM, Mark wrote:
Hi can anyone tell me how to
Read old messages from the same person
Using skype 8 for desktop
Mark.

Tune in to the number one station on the web TAFN radio
http://tafn.org.uk/listen
Or for our catch up service on demand http://www.tafn.org.uk/on-demand
or for our upcoming weekly schedule
http://www.tafn.org.uk/radio
part of the accessible friends network
www.tafn.org.uk<http://www.tafn.org.uk>
Registered UK Charity: #1108043.
Sent from Windows 10 Mail.

From: Sarah k Alawami<mailto:marrie12@...>
Sent: 18 July 2018 17:06
To: Nvda List<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Skype 8 for desktop answering incoming call?

Feel free to subscribe to the skype english list where the owner of some
scripts and add ons lives, or rather is subscribed. Lol!

Go to skypeenglish.tffppodcast.com<http://skypeenglish.tffppodcast.com/> and
subscribe there.

As for your not being able to answer a call tab to the answer button and
whack it. I’ve ben doing this for years now rather than rely on keystrokes.
I personally at least as far as skype hate them. I feel I can know the
interface a lot better by tabbing rather than key strokes which might not
work, or they might depending on the day I’m having.


On Jul 18, 2018, at 7:21 AM, Cristóbal
<cristobalmuli@...<mailto:cristobalmuli@...>> wrote:

As I mentioned, I am using Skype for desktop.

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>> On Behalf Of Gene New
Zealand
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2018 11:24 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Skype 8 for desktop answering incoming call?

Hi

Which version are you using?

My computer which is running windows 10 has the windows 10 app on it also
the latest skype 8 desk top app which i am writing a tutorial for. In the
desk top version skype 8 it has the options there to accept them
automatically under calling they just have to be checked.


Just to confuse you as well there is a web version which is very much like
skype 8

Gene nz


On 7/18/2018 12:34 PM, Cristóbal wrote:
I guess that’s a solution, but that’s not exactly encouraging. You figure
for such an essential command, there would be a hotkey for it that would
work outside of the program itself. I mean it already existed in older
versions (alt plus pg-up).
I’m going to have to try tomorrow with it on my laptop. I haven’t updated my
main desktop where I do nearly all of my calls so we’ll see.
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io><mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene New
Zealand
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2018 4:45 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Skype 8 for desktop answering incoming call?

Hi If i remember right when the call comes in it lands on i think it is the
accept button then press the enter key and start talking.
I am not sure if it was read out by nvda though.


I would have to get some one to give me a call to confirm again as i use
voip alot now.

Gene nz





On 7/18/2018 11:08 AM, Cristóbal wrote:
Hello list,
So, I upgraded Skype for desktop on a laptop to try to get used to it before
MS kills Skype classic in September. I came across some short cut keys from:
https://support.skype.com/en/faq/FA12025/what-are-hotkeys-and-how-do-i-use-them-in-skype
What I’m not finding is the hotkey to answer an incoming call. I can’t
believe that there isn’t one for such a basic function, but it’s not listed
in the table. Start a call, hang up, mute, that’s all fine, but nothing for
answering a call. Am I missing something or is this really not included as a
shortcut key?
Thanks,
Cristobal










--
Remember! Friends Help Friends Be Cybersafe
Jackie McBride
Helping Cybercrime Victims 1 Person at a Time
https://brighter-vision.com


Re: Skype 8 for desktop answering incoming call?

Gene New Zealand <hurrikennyandopo@...>
 

Hi


Have a look down the bottom you can quickly jump down by B for buttons until you get to use dial pad then arrow down. There will be 4 tabs there one is chats then press the enter key on it then arrow down. it will have chats there old and new  from people.


I would have to have a look under contacts and see if you can get the chat stuff from that person as well.


hope this helps.


Gene nz



On 7/19/2018 8:18 AM, Mark wrote:

Hi can anyone tell  me how to

Read old messages from the same person

Using skype 8 for desktop

Mark.

 

Tune in to the number one station on the web TAFN radio
http://tafn.org.uk/listen
Or for our catch up service on demand http://www.tafn.org.uk/on-demand
or for our upcoming weekly schedule
http://www.tafn.org.uk/radio
part of the accessible friends network
www.tafn.org.uk
Registered UK Charity: #1108043.
Sent from Windows 10 Mail.

 

From: Sarah k Alawami
Sent: 18 July 2018 17:06
To: Nvda List
Subject: Re: [nvda] Skype 8 for desktop answering incoming call?

 

Feel free to subscribe to the skype english list where the owner of some scripts and add ons lives, or rather is subscribed. Lol!

 

Go to skypeenglish.tffppodcast.com and subscribe there.

 

As for your not being able to answer a call tab to the answer button and whack it. I’ve ben doing this for years now rather than rely on keystrokes. I personally at least as far as skype hate them. I feel I can know the interface a lot better by tabbing rather than key strokes which might not work, or they might depending on the day I’m having.

 

 

On Jul 18, 2018, at 7:21 AM, Cristóbal <cristobalmuli@...> wrote:

 

As I mentioned, I am using Skype for desktop.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene New Zealand
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2018 11:24 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Skype 8 for desktop answering incoming call?

 

Hi

 

Which version are you using?

 

My computer which is running windows 10 has the windows 10 app on it also the latest skype 8 desk top app which i am writing a tutorial for. In the desk top version skype 8 it has the options there to accept them automatically under calling they just have to be checked.

 

 

Just to confuse you as well there is a web version which is very much like skype 8

 

Gene nz

 

 

On 7/18/2018 12:34 PM, Cristóbal wrote:

I guess that’s a solution, but that’s not exactly encouraging. You figure for such an essential command, there would be a hotkey for it that would work outside of the program itself. I mean it already existed in older versions (alt plus pg-up).

I’m going to have to try tomorrow with it on my laptop. I haven’t updated my main desktop where I do nearly all of my calls so we’ll see.

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene New Zealand
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2018 4:45 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Skype 8 for desktop answering incoming call?

 

Hi If i remember right when the call comes in it lands on i think it is the accept button then press the enter key and start talking.

I am not sure if it was read out by nvda though.

 

 

I would have to get some one to give me a call to confirm again as i use voip alot now.

 

Gene nz

 

 

 

 

 

On 7/18/2018 11:08 AM, Cristóbal wrote:

Hello list,

So, I upgraded Skype for desktop on a laptop to try to get used to it before MS kills Skype classic in September. I came across some short cut keys from: https://support.skype.com/en/faq/FA12025/what-are-hotkeys-and-how-do-i-use-them-in-skype

What I’m not finding is the hotkey to answer an incoming call. I can’t believe that there isn’t one for such a  basic function, but it’s not listed in the table. Start a call, hang up, mute, that’s all fine, but nothing for answering a call. Am I missing something or is this really not included as a shortcut key?

Thanks,

Cristobal

 

 

 

 

 



Re: Skype 8 for desktop answering incoming call?

Sarah k Alawami
 

Tab  to the message list and up and down arrow to read the older messages. This after hitting enter on  the message conversation.

On Jul 18, 2018, at 1:18 PM, Mark <mark@...> wrote:

Hi can anyone tell  me how to 
Read old messages from the same person
Using skype 8 for desktop
Mark.
 
Tune in to the number one station on the web TAFN radio 
http://tafn.org.uk/listen
Or for our catch up service on demand http://www.tafn.org.uk/on-demand 
or for our upcoming weekly schedule 
http://www.tafn.org.uk/radio
part of the accessible friends network 
www.tafn.org.uk
Registered UK Charity: #1108043.
Sent from Windows 10 Mail.
 
From: Sarah k Alawami
Sent: 18 July 2018 17:06
To: Nvda List
Subject: Re: [nvda] Skype 8 for desktop answering incoming call?
 
Feel free to subscribe to the skype english list where the owner of some scripts and add ons lives, or rather is subscribed. Lol!
 
Go to skypeenglish.tffppodcast.com and subscribe there.
 
As for your not being able to answer a call tab to the answer button and whack it. I’ve ben doing this for years now rather than rely on keystrokes. I personally at least as far as skype hate them. I feel I can know the interface a lot better by tabbing rather than key strokes which might not work, or they might depending on the day I’m having.
 
 
On Jul 18, 2018, at 7:21 AM, Cristóbal <cristobalmuli@...> wrote:
 
As I mentioned, I am using Skype for desktop. 
 
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io<nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene New Zealand
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2018 11:24 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Skype 8 for desktop answering incoming call?
 
Hi
 
Which version are you using?
 
My computer which is running windows 10 has the windows 10 app on it also the latest skype 8 desk top app which i am writing a tutorial for. In the desk top version skype 8 it has the options there to accept them automatically under calling they just have to be checked.
 
 
Just to confuse you as well there is a web version which is very much like skype 8
 
Gene nz
 
 
On 7/18/2018 12:34 PM, Cristóbal wrote:
I guess that’s a solution, but that’s not exactly encouraging. You figure for such an essential command, there would be a hotkey for it that would work outside of the program itself. I mean it already existed in older versions (alt plus pg-up). 
I’m going to have to try tomorrow with it on my laptop. I haven’t updated my main desktop where I do nearly all of my calls so we’ll see.
From:nvda@nvda.groups.io<nvda@nvda.groups.io>On Behalf Of Gene New Zealand
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2018 4:45 PM
To:nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Skype 8 for desktop answering incoming call?
 
Hi If i remember right when the call comes in it lands on i think it is the accept button then press the enter key and start talking.
I am not sure if it was read out by nvda though.
 
 
I would have to get some one to give me a call to confirm again as i use voip alot now. 
 
Gene nz
 
 
 
 
 
On 7/18/2018 11:08 AM, Cristóbal wrote:
Hello list,
So, I upgraded Skype for desktop on a laptop to try to get used to it before MS kills Skype classic in September. I came across some short cut keys from: https://support.skype.com/en/faq/FA12025/what-are-hotkeys-and-how-do-i-use-them-in-skype
What I’m not finding is the hotkey to answer an incoming call. I can’t believe that there isn’t one for such a  basic function, but it’s not listed in the table. Start a call, hang up, mute, that’s all fine, but nothing for answering a call. Am I missing something or is this really not included as a shortcut key? 
Thanks, 
Cristobal
 
 
 
 

 


Re: VFO not complimentary about NVDA

Sarah k Alawami
 
Edited

I was actually working for these companies, writing lesson plans etc on Microsoft word. They were on surface things. I told them I would rather use nvda, they said, no, you can use jaws. I had no choice.
They train their students with jaws. They would not even consider talking typing teacher, they didn’t even know about it. Let’s say, I didn’t last long even though I gave them budget and materials and cost of things they would need for the children. They just said it would cost too much and we'll look into it next year. They did say that I did an excellent job writing the lesson plans and end goals for the children though, but the programs I was going to start never took off. I probably would have done a lot better and finished the job in half the time though had I used nvda and word on the surface thing.

On Jul 18, 2018, at 1:38 PM, Antony Stone <antony.stone@...> wrote:

What you say may be true, but I got the impression from Sarah's email that she
was not an employee in these companies, but was talking to employers in the
capacity of a trainer for assistive technologies.

Therefore I think the conversations she had may have had a different basis from
your average "worker bee", as you say.


Antony.

On Wednesday 18 July 2018 at 22:32:38, Rob Hudson wrote:

Well if you are just a worker bee, the company is not required of going to
bother to explain themselves to you. You get told, no, and you just have
to accept it. If you don't like it, too bad, there's the damn door, find
another job. The company doesn't care. That's been my experience anyway.
And since it is generally harder for blind or otherwise disabled people to
find jobs, they have no choice but to accept what the company gives them.
And you can bet the companies know that. We hired you, now show some
appreciation by shutting up and not making any waves.
Antony Stone wrote:

It could be security, agreed, but I'm interested in what companies say in
actual conversation, more than in speculation about what we think they
might say.
--
All generalisations are inaccurate.

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.



Re: VFO not complimentary about NVDA

Antony Stone
 

What doesn't count as "commercial support" from
https://www.nvaccess.org/product/nvda-telephone-support ?

It's a support service, which you pay for. I agree that the website doesn't
specify when the service is available (24x7? business hours in some timezone?
something else?) but I still think it qualifies as a commercial support service
for using NVDA.


Antony.

On Thursday 19 July 2018 at 00:54:20, Shaun Everiss wrote:

That is actually a point, nvda is free, but there isn't such a thing as
comercial support, there is this list and you can pay for support from
the nvda devs themselves I think but for businesses, well thats not
about right now maybe we need to look at this as a community to have
some comercial support who knows.

On 7/19/2018 10:28 AM, Christian Schoepplein wrote:
Hi,

my employer, the city of Munich, has started to migrate from Windows to
Linux maybe 12 years ago. Now they are switching back to Windows because
they say it is the standard in the industries and in the majority of
companies and open source is causing problems especialy when exchanging
documents or other office related data. The default software on a
workstation for blind people, maybe 30 are working for thecity of
Munich, is Windows 7 with Jaws and next year it will be Windows 10
also with Jaws. I am working as an Linux system administrator for the
city of Munich and for me NVDA is the better solution, because I can
more easily use the textbased terminal of the 2.000 Linux servers I
have to take care of, but NVDA will not be the official screenreader,
at least not in the next years. The argument why they are still
prefering Jaws is that tey think they can not get commercial and
official support when problems occure or when special solutions are
needed. And indeed, I do not know a company in Germany which is
offering commercial support for NVDA. Maybe I should change my job and
set up such a company :-).

Also in Germany the soft- and hardware which blind people need for their
job is payed by offical departments or job centers. Those departments do
only know Jaws or the other commercial solutions. They are very ofthen
simply not aware that there is a open source solution. But even if they
know, they would also say that no official companies can support the
blind people who are using NVDA.

Ciao and all the best from Munich,

Schoepp
--
I want to build a machine that will be proud of me.

- Danny Hillis, creator of The Connection Machine

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.


Re: VFO not complimentary about NVDA

 

That is actually a point, nvda is free, but there isn't such a thing as comercial support, there is this list and you can pay for support from the nvda devs themselves I think but for businesses, well thats not about right now maybe we need to look at this as a community to have some comercial support who knows.

On 7/19/2018 10:28 AM, Christian Schoepplein wrote:
Hi,

my employer, the city of Munich, has started to migrate from Windows to
Linux maybe 12 years ago. Now they are switching back to Windows because
they say it is the standard in the industries and in the majority of
companies and open source is causing problems especialy when exchanging
documents or other office related data. The default software on a
workstation for blind people, maybe 30 are working for thecity of
Munich, is Windows 7 with Jaws and next year it will be Windows 10
also with Jaws. I am working as an Linux system administrator for the
city of Munich and for me NVDA is the better solution, because I can
more easily use the textbased terminal of the 2.000 Linux servers I
have to take care of, but NVDA will not be the official screenreader,
at least not in the next years. The argument why they are still
prefering Jaws is that tey think they can not get commercial and
official support when problems occure or when special solutions are
needed. And indeed, I do not know a company in Germany which is
offering commercial support for NVDA. Maybe I should change my job and
set up such a company :-).

Also in Germany the soft- and hardware which blind people need for their
job is payed by offical departments or job centers. Those departments do
only know Jaws or the other commercial solutions. They are very ofthen
simply not aware that there is a open source solution. But even if they
know, they would also say that no official companies can support the
blind people who are using NVDA.

Ciao and all the best from Munich,

Schoepp


Re: VFO not complimentary about NVDA

Christian Schoepplein
 

Hi,

my employer, the city of Munich, has started to migrate from Windows to
Linux maybe 12 years ago. Now they are switching back to Windows because
they say it is the standard in the industries and in the majority of
companies and open source is causing problems especialy when exchanging
documents or other office related data. The default software on a
workstation for blind people, maybe 30 are working for thecity of
Munich, is Windows 7 with Jaws and next year it will be Windows 10
also with Jaws. I am working as an Linux system administrator for the
city of Munich and for me NVDA is the better solution, because I can
more easily use the textbased terminal of the 2.000 Linux servers I
have to take care of, but NVDA will not be the official screenreader,
at least not in the next years. The argument why they are still
prefering Jaws is that tey think they can not get commercial and
official support when problems occure or when special solutions are
needed. And indeed, I do not know a company in Germany which is
offering commercial support for NVDA. Maybe I should change my job and
set up such a company :-).

Also in Germany the soft- and hardware which blind people need for their
job is payed by offical departments or job centers. Those departments do
only know Jaws or the other commercial solutions. They are very ofthen
simply not aware that there is a open source solution. But even if they
know, they would also say that no official companies can support the
blind people who are using NVDA.

Ciao and all the best from Munich,

Schoepp

--
Christian Schoepplein - <chris (at) schoeppi.net> - http://schoeppi.net


Re: VFO not complimentary about NVDA

Gene
 

Lying and spreading misinformation that is false but might be able to scrape by with claims that it is the opinion of VFO that the major developer leaving will hurt NVDA is unethical and reprehensibal.  But people love to hate JAWS and much more calumny has been spread about JAWS throughout its history than it has spread.  I've seen lots of it over the years.
 
If VFO is spreading false information, this should be counteracted.  But in the big picture, let's keep perspective. 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Cristóbal
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2018 12:58 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] VFO not complimentary about NVDA

What is the point of all this outrage exactly? Shocking that VFO may throw some shade at a direct competitor? What? Is Microsoft supposed to tout the benefits and all the reasons why someone should switch to a Mac or a Chromebook?


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Don H
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2018 10:53 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] VFO not complimentary about NVDA

VFO has no interest in people having a choice.









Re: VFO not complimentary about NVDA

Gene
 

Are you saying you will ask people to pay you for instruction?  That's fine.  I don't think you mean to pay for NVDA since it is free.  If you are asking them to contribute that's fine, but what are you saying?
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: ely.r@...
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2018 12:29 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] VFO not complimentary about NVDA

There is a new group of adults who will be wanting to continue their computer access. They are the wave of "senior boomers." It is an entire generation who though they did not "grow up" using technology, have adapted pretty well to it. The statistics regarding vision loss in that population are staggering. Many of those people have PCs at home.
I will be shortly starting classes at our local library on NVDA. I refute to teach access thinking that the cost of JAWS may well put it beyond the reach of many, particularly those on a fixed income. I will be sure to ask my students to pay something for NVDA, but pay what they can afford.

The model that helped to create WindowEyes and JAWS was a good starting point. Those products gave us the ability to show that computer use for a job was doable. We have passed that time. Computer access for anyone with vision loss should be a right, and not a right based on our income or our employer.

Like all change, there will be bumps, but products like NVDA are showing a new path to access.
Rick

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of JM Casey
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2018 12:38 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] VFO not complimentary about NVDA

It's probably true that most larger organisations are going to go the JAWS route, if they already have an iT department that is familiar with accessibility concerns. However, as I've done several job interviews in the last  year that require on-site tests/use of software, I can definitely say that the price tag and other issues involved in getting JAWS to work are a hurdle that companies will not cross. This is the very reason I started using NVDA more regularly in the first place; I had no choice if I was going to do those interviews. One company did try to install the 40 minute demo of JAWS and was not able to get it to work at all, though they didn't tell me the reason.

I still use both, but if I hadn't been able to obtain a cheap JAWS license from my former employer, Canada's chief "blindness organisation", I wouldn't be using JFW at all. Freedom Scientific might trash and disparage as much as they like; in the end I think their model just isn't very practical. They depend on government and corporate grants/licenses because they know that most blind individuals can't pay their exorbitant prices. I recently looked into Open Book and that thing is something like four or five times the price of a high quality mainstream OCR package. Just unbelievable.



-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of mikolaj holysz
Sent: July 18, 2018 12:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] VFO not complimentary about NVDA

Same thing happens over here, in POland. Altix, the local distributor of JAWS, has recently released a series of articles about Jamie leaving NV Access for Mozilla even though he did this a long time ago and about all the features NVDA doesn't have and JAWS does. I've even heart accounts of people who were told by altix representatives that NVDA is dangerous to their computers and that it might fry their motherboards, though I don't know if those who retold the story were speaking the truth or merely exaggerating.

This seems like pressure from Freedom Scientific to promote JAWS.

W dniu 2018-07-18 o 17:33, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io pisze:
> I have just listened to the latest issue of Techtalk from the RNIB in
> the uk on Audioboom, and there is an interview with the software man
> at VFO about what they sell and future plans, and the guy asked him
> about NVDA Though not actually  trashing it, he used that old ploy
> that one of the programmers has now left to go to Mozilla and nobody
> will install NVDA in a business system because its open source etc.
> anyway, go and have a listen and see what you think. I guess his job
> is to big up his own company, but I noticed, dear old Dolphin never even got mentioned!
> Brian
>
> bglists@...
> Sent via blueyonder.
> Please address personal E-mail to:-
> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
> in the display name field.
>
>
>












Re: VFO not complimentary about NVDA

Gene New Zealand <hurrikennyandopo@...>
 

Hi


On every computer on our library network here in new zealand there is a
copy of NVDA on the computer. They also upgrade it each year to the
latest version and have been doing it since 2008.

This is from the very top of new zealand to the bottom of new zealand at
about 150 plus libraries on 750 computers.


If people are worried about security the admins should have it locked down.


I can also use a usb stick with nvda on any of there computers if i want
the latest features or just use the one on the computer.


I would say if you took out open source software from the library
network in all libraries there would be pretty much nothing on those
computers.


Gene nz

On 7/19/2018 5:29 AM, ely.r@... wrote:
There is a new group of adults who will be wanting to continue their computer access. They are the wave of "senior boomers." It is an entire generation who though they did not "grow up" using technology, have adapted pretty well to it. The statistics regarding vision loss in that population are staggering. Many of those people have PCs at home.
I will be shortly starting classes at our local library on NVDA. I refute to teach access thinking that the cost of JAWS may well put it beyond the reach of many, particularly those on a fixed income. I will be sure to ask my students to pay something for NVDA, but pay what they can afford.

The model that helped to create WindowEyes and JAWS was a good starting point. Those products gave us the ability to show that computer use for a job was doable. We have passed that time. Computer access for anyone with vision loss should be a right, and not a right based on our income or our employer.

Like all change, there will be bumps, but products like NVDA are showing a new path to access.
Rick

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of JM Casey
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2018 12:38 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] VFO not complimentary about NVDA

It's probably true that most larger organisations are going to go the JAWS route, if they already have an iT department that is familiar with accessibility concerns. However, as I've done several job interviews in the last year that require on-site tests/use of software, I can definitely say that the price tag and other issues involved in getting JAWS to work are a hurdle that companies will not cross. This is the very reason I started using NVDA more regularly in the first place; I had no choice if I was going to do those interviews. One company did try to install the 40 minute demo of JAWS and was not able to get it to work at all, though they didn't tell me the reason.

I still use both, but if I hadn't been able to obtain a cheap JAWS license from my former employer, Canada's chief "blindness organisation", I wouldn't be using JFW at all. Freedom Scientific might trash and disparage as much as they like; in the end I think their model just isn't very practical. They depend on government and corporate grants/licenses because they know that most blind individuals can't pay their exorbitant prices. I recently looked into Open Book and that thing is something like four or five times the price of a high quality mainstream OCR package. Just unbelievable.



-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of mikolaj holysz
Sent: July 18, 2018 12:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] VFO not complimentary about NVDA

Same thing happens over here, in POland. Altix, the local distributor of JAWS, has recently released a series of articles about Jamie leaving NV Access for Mozilla even though he did this a long time ago and about all the features NVDA doesn't have and JAWS does. I've even heart accounts of people who were told by altix representatives that NVDA is dangerous to their computers and that it might fry their motherboards, though I don't know if those who retold the story were speaking the truth or merely exaggerating.

This seems like pressure from Freedom Scientific to promote JAWS.

W dniu 2018-07-18 o 17:33, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io pisze:
I have just listened to the latest issue of Techtalk from the RNIB in
the uk on Audioboom, and there is an interview with the software man
at VFO about what they sell and future plans, and the guy asked him
about NVDA Though not actually trashing it, he used that old ploy
that one of the programmers has now left to go to Mozilla and nobody
will install NVDA in a business system because its open source etc.
anyway, go and have a listen and see what you think. I guess his job
is to big up his own company, but I noticed, dear old Dolphin never even got mentioned!
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.











Decorum on this list, NVDA Vs. JAWS Debate #adminnotice

Nimer Jaber
 

Hello everyone,

I took the time to read all over 50 messages that were sent on the NVDA and JAWS debate. Here are some thoughts, and please forgive me for coming down a bit hard on this, but if you read this all the way through, you may understand why. Please also understand that what I am about to write is not my personal opinion necessarily, but it is my role as an admin of this list to make the points I am about to make.

1. This list is for the discussion of NVDA and, specifically, to help out one another in our learning and knowledge of NVDA. This group exists because its members want it to do so, although I feel that it should be tied up into the Windows 10 group, but there you have it. This group does not exist to bash others, to disparage companies, or to flame and attack others for their preferences. While a limited amount of comparison may be valid when attempting to request a new feature or trying to understand how NVDA does things as compared to another screen reader, what I saw today in the thread was nothing short of a disgrace coming from list members.
2. It doesn't matter what Eric or anyone else from Freedom Scientific did or did not say about NVDA, we the NVDA community can choose how to respond, and I urge all of us to respond in a way that does not have us looking clownish to the outside world, and to new members. This community is public, and it is archived. Let it be a learning and teaching tool, not a platform for bashing.
3. Your personal opinions of what is better or not better are irrelevant on this list, as are mine. You have chosen to participate on an NVDA list. Contribute to this list in a way you see fit, but do not attack other people, companies, products, or anything else just because your opinion is that NVDA is the best. No product is the best for everyone, no product is perfect, and no product, person, or entity should be attacked in the way that VFO has been in this group.
4. If a list member posts a controversial thread, you do not have to respond. If you want to respond, at least take the time to research your position by listening to the podcast that was presented, and then state facts about what was said, without drawing conclusions about what you think was implied.

This community can be welcoming, inviting, and safe for everyone. It can be an example of how all people can get along. It can be an example of how we choose not to flame companies or individuals, as so often happens on blindness and non-blindness e-mail lists and forums. We can also be considerate of those around the world who have limited bandwidth by not sending dozens of messages to the list about a topic that really should not exist on this list in the first place.

Finally, I have seen some rumblings about eloquence on this list over the past few days. That word used to be banned on this list, however I was talked into removing that ban. Still, Eloquence is illegal unless it is purchased through legal channels. There is, for instance, a version of Eloquence which is sold by the ATGuys and sold and packaged by CodeFactory. This can be discussed if there are bugs with it, or if we are pointing a new user to that legal channel, however I do not wish to read about any discussion of illegal add-ons, or free Eloquence on this list. Any user knowingly posting about illegal software will receive a ban from posting until I become satisfied that they will no longer post about such things in future. If you believe a user has been posting about eloquence, or if you see a message that goes against what this community stands for, please bring it to the attention of the admin and moderator of this list, and we will action it.

If you disagree with my message, or if you have a problem with anything I have said, please send me an e-mail privately, or to nvda+owners@nvda.groups.io and I will take the time to speak with you about your concerns. Please do not post your comments to the list at large. Also, please end the thread about the comparison between NVDA and JAWS. If the thread has not died down by 12:00 AM Eastern time this evening, I will lock the thread.

Thank you for being a part of this wonderful NVDA family, and here's hoping we can move forward together in making this place all that it can be for one another, and for all the visitors, new members, companies, agencies, and anyone else who may be reading the traffic



--
Cordially,

Nimer Jaber, NVDA List Owner

Please take the time to read this signature completely as it contains
some information about the email you have just read and all
attachments contained within as well as some valuable resources and
methods for contacting me if you have any questions or wish to talk.

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
up to you. Thanks.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
and above, please click here:
http://www.nvda-project.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (218)
(693-9271) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly. Thank
you, and have a great day!


Re: VFO not complimentary about NVDA

Gene New Zealand <hurrikennyandopo@...>
 

Hi brian


Can you send the link to us so we can have a listen.


any how if not for the work area it is perfectly alright for other
places like libraries information centres etc etc.


it makes me laugh though as when you watch surveys to do with screen
readers take the last aim one  if you look at jaws then nvda jaws users
are going down and nvda users are going up very quickly.

people are ststarting to prefer what comes as part of the package like
on mobile phones or say on a apple computer and if they know about nvda
they would rather use that than narrator.


Gene nz


Even on the list i am on now the jaws users  have been jumping across to nvd

. it is not to say the hard core jaws users will but i guess if the
goverment stops paying for the screen reader for work or as a home user
in some countries the numbers would drop even more.


You have to remember also they charge quite a bit for the product and
the upgrades of which i have noticed if correct are coming down but not
much.

Gene nz

On 7/19/2018 3:33 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
I have just listened to the latest issue of Techtalk from the RNIB in
the uk on Audioboom, and there is an interview with the software man
at VFO about what they sell and future plans, and the guy asked him
about NVDA Though not actually  trashing it, he used that old ploy
that one of the programmers has now left to go to Mozilla and nobody
will install NVDA in a business system because its open source etc.
anyway, go and have a listen and see what you think. I guess his job
is to big up his own company, but I noticed, dear old Dolphin never
even got mentioned!
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.



NVDA and Website Acessibility?

David Russell
 

Hi NVDA Users,

Are there any services that knowingly test or rate websites or third
parties that provide services for websites such as those that offer
educational opportunities?

I was taking a distance learning course through a US University, free
of charge, but could not access the PDF documents, or uploaded work by
other classmates that we were to review and comment on.

I could not find a given link for support on this particular website.
Things were in levels, and were difficult to maintain in focus.
I notice a similar pattern with other websites, but it can be
rectified by directly going to a specific link when going to the
website itself by typing it in at the back end of the address.
This course does not allow for similar action. I consider it to thus
be nearly inaccessible.

--
David Russell
david.sonofhashem@...
"chilah phanim" Make G-d smile!


Re: Outlook Emails disappearing after writing a reply

Mike Sedmak
 

∂oes the original email follow the reply into the drafts and then sent folders?

Thanks,
Mike

Sent from my iPhone, please forgive the typos.

On Jul 18, 2018, at 2:55 PM, Cearbhall O'Meadhra <cearbhall.omeadhra@...> wrote:

Anthony,

NO, they have only happened after starting to draft a reply. Note that I would not have finished the reply nor would I have actually sent the reply out. The event happens whilst editing the reply message. Then both the reply itself and the separate, original message disappear!


All the best,

Cearbhall

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Antony Stone
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2018 9:27 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Outlook Emails disappearing after writing a reply

That sounds plausible - a simple check would be: does a message also disappear if you read it but don't reply to it?


Antony.

On Wednesday 18 July 2018 at 22:24:40, Mike Sedmak wrote:

Any chance you have a filter active that would only show unread messages?

On 7/18/18, Cearbhall O'Meadhra wrote:
Hi all,

Lately, I am mystified as to where emails disappear to after I reply to
them. I have just written a reply to an email which I received a few
minutes ago. When I completed the reply Ans sent the message off, I found
that the original email has disappeared. If it were deleted I would expect
to find it in my Deleted Items folder but it is not there!

Is this an NVDA problem or an Outlook problem?

I am using Outlook 365 with Windows 10

Microsoft Windows Version 1803 (OS Build 17134.165)

NVDA Version: 2018.2.1
--
Normal people think "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".
Engineers think "If it ain't broke, it doesn't have enough features yet".

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.






Re: VFO not complimentary about NVDA

Cristóbal
 

Cool strawman argument.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Antony Stone
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2018 1:50 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] VFO not complimentary about NVDA

So, how come Microsoft Windows has needed so many security updates over the past 30 years? That's not open source :)


Antony.

On Wednesday 18 July 2018 at 22:46:52, Andy wrote:

The reason cited is Security, security, security.

Andy

----- Original Message -----
From: "Antony Stone" <antony.stone@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2018 1:16 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] VFO not complimentary about NVDA


You say you talk to employers who "don't like open source".

What is their reasoning behind this?

Do they think they get no support, do they believe the software is
inferior, or what?

I'm interested to know what they think they know about "open source" which
makes them say they don't like it.


Antony.

On Wednesday 18 July 2018 at 18:03:23, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
Oh come on. I’ve not ben using freedom rash tiva's products now for 8
years and I’m quite happy with it. I do talk to employers though and they
say I either use jaws or nothing at all, they don’t want to install nvda
on their systems. I explain what it is, and even my services here don’t
want to deal with nvda even though i’ve brought it up. They don’t like
open source. I wish that people would quit using freedom trash tiva’s
stuff and switch to nvda, it is over all the best experience and getting
better on a daily basis.
--
"Good health" is merely the slowest rate at which you can die.

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.


Re: Outlook Emails disappearing after writing a reply

Cearbhall O'Meadhra
 

Anthony,

NO, they have only happened after starting to draft a reply. Note that I would not have finished the reply nor would I have actually sent the reply out. The event happens whilst editing the reply message. Then both the reply itself and the separate, original message disappear!


All the best,

Cearbhall

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Antony Stone
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2018 9:27 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Outlook Emails disappearing after writing a reply

That sounds plausible - a simple check would be: does a message also disappear if you read it but don't reply to it?


Antony.

On Wednesday 18 July 2018 at 22:24:40, Mike Sedmak wrote:

Any chance you have a filter active that would only show unread messages?

On 7/18/18, Cearbhall O'Meadhra wrote:
Hi all,

Lately, I am mystified as to where emails disappear to after I reply to
them. I have just written a reply to an email which I received a few
minutes ago. When I completed the reply Ans sent the message off, I found
that the original email has disappeared. If it were deleted I would expect
to find it in my Deleted Items folder but it is not there!

Is this an NVDA problem or an Outlook problem?

I am using Outlook 365 with Windows 10

Microsoft Windows Version 1803 (OS Build 17134.165)

NVDA Version: 2018.2.1
--
Normal people think "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".
Engineers think "If it ain't broke, it doesn't have enough features yet".

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.


Re: VFO not complimentary about NVDA

Antony Stone
 

So, how come Microsoft Windows has needed so many security updates over the
past 30 years? That's not open source :)


Antony.

On Wednesday 18 July 2018 at 22:46:52, Andy wrote:

The reason cited is Security, security, security.

Andy

----- Original Message -----
From: "Antony Stone" <antony.stone@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2018 1:16 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] VFO not complimentary about NVDA


You say you talk to employers who "don't like open source".

What is their reasoning behind this?

Do they think they get no support, do they believe the software is
inferior, or what?

I'm interested to know what they think they know about "open source" which
makes them say they don't like it.


Antony.

On Wednesday 18 July 2018 at 18:03:23, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
Oh come on. I’ve not ben using freedom rash tiva's products now for 8
years and I’m quite happy with it. I do talk to employers though and they
say I either use jaws or nothing at all, they don’t want to install nvda
on their systems. I explain what it is, and even my services here don’t
want to deal with nvda even though i’ve brought it up. They don’t like
open source. I wish that people would quit using freedom trash tiva’s
stuff and switch to nvda, it is over all the best experience and getting
better on a daily basis.
--
"Good health" is merely the slowest rate at which you can die.

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.


Re: VFO not complimentary about NVDA

Gene
 

More disparagement but this time of blindness organizations all blindness organizations, 
Show me real evidence that blindness organizations benefit by recommending JAWS over NVDA.  I mean real evidence, not just Internet or other rumors.  I mean evidence such as some sort of proof of financial entanglements where an organization benefits from recommending a specific product. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2018 12:06 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] VFO not complimentary about NVDA

I brought that up  at the jobs I work for and they just say either use jaws or don’t work for us. It’s not fair really. And the blindness organizations don’t really care anyway. They are just there for the money, or lck thereof.

On Jul 18, 2018, at 9:40 AM, Sky Mundell <skyt@...> wrote:

Yes there are deliberate lies going on with those blind organisations about alternative products. What they fail to take into account is that there are cutbacks going on in education, employment, and funding can only go so far. Not only that, but when the cutbacks begin to bite, these organisations will be forced to seek out cheaper things such as NVDA. At that point, they may go with NVDA. What also surprises me is that VFO hasn't even put up their prices yet!

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of mikolaj holysz
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2018 9:21 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] VFO not complimentary about NVDA

Same thing happens over here, in POland. Altix, the local distributor of 
JAWS, has recently released a series of articles about Jamie leaving NV 
Access for Mozilla even though he did this a long time ago and about all 
the features NVDA doesn't have and JAWS does. I've even heart accounts 
of people who were told by altix representatives that NVDA is dangerous 
to their computers and that it might fry their motherboards, though I 
don't know if those who retold the story were speaking the truth or 
merely exaggerating.

This seems like pressure from Freedom Scientific to promote JAWS.

W dniu 2018-07-18 o 17:33, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io pisze:
I have just listened to the latest issue of Techtalk from the RNIB in 
the uk on Audioboom, and there is an interview with the software man at 
VFO about what they sell and future plans, and the guy asked him about 
NVDA Though not actually  trashing it, he used that old ploy that one of 
the programmers has now left to go to Mozilla and nobody will install 
NVDA in a business system because its open source etc. anyway, go and 
have a listen and see what you think. I guess his job is to big up his 
own company, but I noticed, dear old Dolphin never even got mentioned!
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.










Re: VFO not complimentary about NVDA

Andy
 

The reason cited is Security, security, security.

Andy

----- Original Message -----
From: "Antony Stone" <antony.stone@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2018 1:16 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] VFO not complimentary about NVDA


You say you talk to employers who "don't like open source".

What is their reasoning behind this?

Do they think they get no support, do they believe the software is inferior,
or what?

I'm interested to know what they think they know about "open source" which
makes them say they don't like it.


Antony.

On Wednesday 18 July 2018 at 18:03:23, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

Oh come on. I’ve not ben using freedom rash tiva's products now for 8
years and I’m quite happy with it. I do talk to employers though and they
say I either use jaws or nothing at all, they don’t want to install nvda
on their systems. I explain what it is, and even my services here don’t
want to deal with nvda even though i’ve brought it up. They don’t like
open source. I wish that people would quit using freedom trash tiva’s
stuff and switch to nvda, it is over all the best experience and getting
better on a daily basis.
--
This sentence contains exacly three erors.

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.