Date   

Re: Accessible voice and text chat

Lino Morales <linomorales001@...>
 

Gene. Sarah is severely horrid in her spelling. I don’t think she did that on purpose.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Gene <gsasner@...>
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 5:01:09 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Accessible voice and text chat
 
I assume Mocrosoft is another disparaging name and not a typing error?  Apple was ten or fifteen years behind in doing anything about accessibility.  I haven't used Apple products so I can't compare.  Would you object if someone used disparaging names for Apple or its products such as, I ust made one up, the oi phone instead of the IPhone, or perhaps, Cr, etc. for Apple?  I don't know if anyone would be offended if I wrote the whole name out.  In my opinion, this is juvinile and accomplishes nothing except perhaps offend people who may like this or that company or product.  Would you like it if someone made up some sort of disparaging name for NVDA? 
 
What goes around comes around.
 
Gene
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 3:42 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Accessible voice and text chat

Although they are getting better, they still have a long way to go Apple are much much better at accessibility especially with their own softwares then mocrosoft, at least for now. Mocrosoft have a lot of catching up, and they know it.

I still say to the original poster, use skype, it is getting better, and it has a long way to go, but get used to it, or switch to zoom, which I would not use just for chatting purposes. It’s way too over powered for that.

On 23 Jul 2018, at 13:29, Gene wrote:

I'm saying this not as a moderator, but as a list member.  I really object to you giving companies disparaging nicknames and I especially object to it when the company has a much better record on accessibility than many other companies. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
On 7/24/2018 4:13 AM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
> I never actually lost trust in MS. I knew that skype was in time going
> to be a good thing and  talk about html was in happening  even since
> about 2004 if I remember correctly. Skype has come a long way and we
> have to thank microslop for  it. They  made skype what it is today, a
> ver  good tool for my jobs and more.
>
> Blessings and happy Monday
> Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website:
> http://www.tffppodcast.com
> For stuff we sell, mac training materials and  tutorials go to
> http://www.tffppodcast.com/premium
> and for hosting options go to http://www.tffppodcast.com/hosting
> to subscribe to the feed click here:
> http://feeds.feedburner.com/tffp
> And for the listen page go here:
> http://www.tffppodcast.com/listen
>
> Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here:
> http://www.tffppodcast.com/pod-pledge
> For an android list in the making where android apps, accessibility,
> phones and development can be discussed  subscribe send a blank email to
> androiddiscuss+subscribe@android-discuss.groups.io
> and follow the prompts.
> to visit the subgroups  and subscribe (note you must be subscribed to
> the main group as well) visit the following URL:
> about-android.tffppodcast.com
>
> To subscribe to the skype english list go to
> skypeenglish.tffppodcast.com and send a blank email to the subscribe
> address listed there.
>
> On 23 Jul 2018, at 2:50, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
>
>> Its just that many distrust microsoft, and indeed the old Skype team
>> as it has seemed for years now that its one step forward and two back
>> on accessibility with this particular software, and people are losing
>> patience with it I suspect.
>
>
>
>




Re: Accessible voice and text chat

Gene
 

I assume Mocrosoft is another disparaging name and not a typing error?  Apple was ten or fifteen years behind in doing anything about accessibility.  I haven't used Apple products so I can't compare.  Would you object if someone used disparaging names for Apple or its products such as, I ust made one up, the oi phone instead of the IPhone, or perhaps, Cr, etc. for Apple?  I don't know if anyone would be offended if I wrote the whole name out.  In my opinion, this is juvinile and accomplishes nothing except perhaps offend people who may like this or that company or product.  Would you like it if someone made up some sort of disparaging name for NVDA? 
 
What goes around comes around.
 
Gene

Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 3:42 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Accessible voice and text chat

Although they are getting better, they still have a long way to go Apple are much much better at accessibility especially with their own softwares then mocrosoft, at least for now. Mocrosoft have a lot of catching up, and they know it.

I still say to the original poster, use skype, it is getting better, and it has a long way to go, but get used to it, or switch to zoom, which I would not use just for chatting purposes. It’s way too over powered for that.

On 23 Jul 2018, at 13:29, Gene wrote:

I'm saying this not as a moderator, but as a list member.  I really object to you giving companies disparaging nicknames and I especially object to it when the company has a much better record on accessibility than many other companies. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
On 7/24/2018 4:13 AM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
> I never actually lost trust in MS. I knew that skype was in time going
> to be a good thing and  talk about html was in happening  even since
> about 2004 if I remember correctly. Skype has come a long way and we
> have to thank microslop for  it. They  made skype what it is today, a
> ver  good tool for my jobs and more.
>
> Blessings and happy Monday
> Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website:
> http://www.tffppodcast.com
> For stuff we sell, mac training materials and  tutorials go to
> http://www.tffppodcast.com/premium
> and for hosting options go to http://www.tffppodcast.com/hosting
> to subscribe to the feed click here:
> http://feeds.feedburner.com/tffp
> And for the listen page go here:
> http://www.tffppodcast.com/listen
>
> Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here:
> http://www.tffppodcast.com/pod-pledge
> For an android list in the making where android apps, accessibility,
> phones and development can be discussed  subscribe send a blank email to
> androiddiscuss+subscribe@android-discuss.groups.io
> and follow the prompts.
> to visit the subgroups  and subscribe (note you must be subscribed to
> the main group as well) visit the following URL:
> about-android.tffppodcast.com
>
> To subscribe to the skype english list go to
> skypeenglish.tffppodcast.com and send a blank email to the subscribe
> address listed there.
>
> On 23 Jul 2018, at 2:50, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
>
>> Its just that many distrust microsoft, and indeed the old Skype team
>> as it has seemed for years now that its one step forward and two back
>> on accessibility with this particular software, and people are losing
>> patience with it I suspect.
>
>
>
>




Anybody on here testing the FF betas?

Lino Morales <linomorales001@...>
 

Hi. Is anyone on here testing the latest betas of Firefox with NVDA 2018.2 or later? Is it any faster? I’m still using Waterfox. Thanks.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


Re: Accessible voice and text chat

Lino Morales <linomorales001@...>
 

Good point Tyler. And this goes back to the VFO brewhaha we had on here last week. I don’t see how Narrator would disrupt open source screen readers like NVDA as his Erickness stated in that podcast. As I always say viva la NVDA!

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Tyler Wood <tcwood12@...>
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 4:49:46 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Accessible voice and text chat
 
A few years ago I might have agreed with you on microsoft playing catch up.


These days, as you say, Microsoft is everywhere. Seeing AI is simply a
revolutionary tool on the smartphone and is not made by apple.
Similarly, narrator is quickly becoming a replacement for your every day
screen reader. Keep in mind that the NFB went at apple pretty hard back
in the day, too, so it isn't as though their bringing more accessibility
into the market was voluntary. Microsoft has pretty decent accessibility
on the Xbox, as well, a far cry from Sony who, even though they released
so called accessibility first, are still missing crutial tts in areas
like the system settings 4 years later. Playing catch up, indeed.

I'm curious where you think microsoft is lacking in accessibility these
days? Considering we have quite a few folks with disabilities working
for microsoft as well as apple, I think they're on a pretty level
playing field.


On 23-Jul-2018 3:40 PM, Antony Stone wrote:
> Microsoft may have a better record on accessibility than "many other
> companies", but depending on which other companies you compare them with, that
> may not be saying much.
>
> Also, given their overwhelming dominance in the desktop (laptop) computing
> market, I think they have not done as well as they should have done in terms
> of accessibility.
>
> I think Apple were late starters in the accessibility arena, but once they
> decided to go for it, they showed how it should be done, and Microsoft have
> simply played catch-up, in order to avoid total embarrassment (rather like
> they had to in the mid 90s when they suddenly realised that people had found
> out about the Internet, and if they didn't do something quick, they'd be left
> behind in the networked world).
>
>
> Antony.
>
> On Monday 23 July 2018 at 22:29:59, Gene wrote:
>
>> I'm saying this not as a moderator, but as a list member.  I really object
>> to you giving companies disparaging nicknames and I especially object to
>> it when the company has a much better record on accessibility than many
>> other companies.
>>
>> Gene
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>
>> On 7/24/2018 4:13 AM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
>>> I never actually lost trust in MS. I knew that skype was in time going
>>> to be a good thing and  talk about html was in happening  even since
>>> about 2004 if I remember correctly. Skype has come a long way and we
>>> have to thank microslop for  it. They  made skype what it is today, a
>>> ver good tool for my jobs and more.





Re: Introduction, and a question

Ervin, Glenn
 

Windows 7 I believe, and I plug into many computers, installing NVDA, and I use a 64GB thumb drive, and it would be time consuming to scan that on everyone’s computer.

Glenn

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 3:48 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Introduction, and a question

 

In what version of Windows did you first see this action?

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Ervin, Glenn

Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 2:44 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Introduction, and a question

 

Gene,

It is a default Windows action, I only use Microsoft’s anti-virus and malware (mrt) tools.

I tried a malware one lately, Malware Bytes, but I removed it.

Glenn

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 2:42 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Introduction, and a question

 

You may get that message on your machine, for some reason.  I have never gotten such a message on four machines.  maybe an antimalware program is offering to scan it but it is not a default action in Windows unless Windows 8 and 10 have such a default action.  I haven't used either version.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Ervin, Glenn

Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 1:17 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Introduction, and a question

 

Whenever you plug in a drive, you get the message to scan it.

Once you do scan it, it is good for a time, or unless you change the drive label.

That is one I escape out of all the time.

Glenn

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 1:15 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Introduction, and a question

 

I don't know what messages you are talking about.  if you use safely remove hardware, there is no canned message about scanning and removing.  If the drive can safely be removed, you get a message that the drive can safely be removed.  If it can't, you get a message that it can't.  I haven't seen any reputable advisor, such as Kim Komando, advocate ignoring such messages.  I've said that at times, it is alright to remove a drive if you get a not safe to remove message, such as in the case of when you run NVDA from a thumb drive.  In a specific case like that, where you unload NVDA but you still can't remove the drive, it is because a file is still being used by Windows.  it is not released by Windows for some reason and It won't be.  I explained in previous messages what I would do.  I see that Joseph Lee seems to give a much shorter waiting time, if I understand his message correctly.  But usually, when a file is not being held in use by Windows for no reason, if you get a message that it is unsafe to remove a drive, it isn't and you should use safely remove hardware again to see if you get the safe to remove announcement. 

 

You may get away with ignoring such messages and not using Safely Remove hardware most of the time but what about the time when you don't?  These features aren't just placed in Windows because some programmer had nothing to do.  They are placed there for a reason. 

 

You can set parameters regarding external drives so that you never have to use Safely remove Hardware.  I won't go into that here.  But unless you know the parameters are set in that way, I wouldn't take the chance. 

 

How do I know what Joe stranger or Joe friend or public library administrator did, if anything, regarding these settings?

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Ervin, Glenn

Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 10:34 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Introduction, and a question

 

James,
I don't see the possibility of corrupting any files.
I ignore those canned messages from Microsoft about scanning and removing.
But if you scan it once, it should not ask you again for that particular drive for some time.
But I never power down drives and have never had a problem.
Glenn


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of James Bentley
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 8:39 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Introduction, and a question

Hi,

I would like to use NVDA portible on a thumb drive on public computers.
And, friends computers.

So, I better double check some thing here.  If files do get corrupted, will it be just  on my thumb drive?  I sure do not want to mess up a computer that doesn't even belong to me.

Thanks for your thoughts,

James B



-----Original Message-----
From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 4:56 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Introduction, and a question

Well, In the main it seems to have no actual impact at all. Its a bit like an sd card I have it keeps on telling me its been disconnected  badly when I plug it in and can it scan it yet it finds no issues with it. I'm note sure if its some logging or just that windows 7 is a little slow at releasing files. I've seen this with the log file even on the installed copy that stops the update always running as the log is locked. Its easy to fix this, by esc and then a relaunch, but I am almost sure its on windows 7 machines with ssd drives for some odd reason.

Incidentally you may find that using a pen copy on windows 10 is not as useful as more of the operating system needs admin access to allow accessibility to work correctly so nvda tries to fall back to older apis and sometimes this is not very  much good.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Bentley" <bentleyj1952@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2018 3:35 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Introduction, and a question


Ah, yes, that toggle fixed the problem.

And, I discovered a tutorial  in the NVDA help menu.  So, that problem is
also fixed.

I sure wish I had installed NVDA a long time ago.

Gene, I am going to ask you or, anyone another question.

I put NVDA Portible on a thumb drive.  I discovered that I can not do a safe
disconnect because Winndows 7 says that the files are still in use.  So, I
just powered down the box and disconnected that way.  Is this normal?  Orr,
is there a way around this?

Gene, thanks,

James B



From: Gene
Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2018 9:12 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Introduction, and a question

Try NVDA key, either insert by default, f4.  You should hear either speak
command keys on or speak command keys off.   It's a toggle.  If off, you
shouldn't hear the announcement.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: James Bentley
Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2018 5:34 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Introduction, and a question

Hi all,

I am James Bentley from East Texas.

I recently installed NVDA out of curiosity and for a backup to Jaws.

I am extremely impressed with NVDA.  Its small, efficient, and surprisingly
powerful.  Especially since it is free of charge.  I predict it will
continue to grow and improve at a rapid rate.
May I start with 2 quick questions?

Is there a tutorial available?

And, Is it possible to stop NVDA from saying, arrow up or arrow down while I
am arrowing  up and down through a web page?

Many thanks.  And, I’m glad to be here.

James B







 





Re: Accessible voice and text chat

Tyler Wood
 

As has been pointed out before. This is not your Grandfathers Microsoft. They're trying hard to rectify they're mistakes and, as I see it, are doing a fantastic job. Work is actively being done on narrator unlike voiceover, which has been stagnant and not had features of real value added on the mac side for quite some time, imho.



On 23-Jul-2018 3:42 PM, Lino Morales wrote:

Well hey like I said on another list. This is the new MS. Under Satia Nedella I think they are doing an awesome job. I can’t stress enough here and the other lists I’m on to use that good ole Feedback Hub. Yes kids MS does read your feedback.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Antony Stone <antony.stone@...>
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 4:40:01 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Accessible voice and text chat
 
Microsoft may have a better record on accessibility than "many other
companies", but depending on which other companies you compare them with, that
may not be saying much.

Also, given their overwhelming dominance in the desktop (laptop) computing
market, I think they have not done as well as they should have done in terms
of accessibility.

I think Apple were late starters in the accessibility arena, but once they
decided to go for it, they showed how it should be done, and Microsoft have
simply played catch-up, in order to avoid total embarrassment (rather like
they had to in the mid 90s when they suddenly realised that people had found
out about the Internet, and if they didn't do something quick, they'd be left
behind in the networked world).


Antony.

On Monday 23 July 2018 at 22:29:59, Gene wrote:

> I'm saying this not as a moderator, but as a list member.  I really object
> to you giving companies disparaging nicknames and I especially object to
> it when the company has a much better record on accessibility than many
> other companies.
>
> Gene
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> On 7/24/2018 4:13 AM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
> > I never actually lost trust in MS. I knew that skype was in time going
> > to be a good thing and  talk about html was in happening  even since
> > about 2004 if I remember correctly. Skype has come a long way and we
> > have to thank microslop for  it. They  made skype what it is today, a
> > ver good tool for my jobs and more.

--
There's a good theatrical performance about puns on in the West End.  It's a
play on words.

                                                   Please reply to the list;
                                                         please *don't* CC me.





Re: Introduction, and a question

Ervin, Glenn
 

I wouldn’t compare seatbelts to pulling a thumb drive.

LOL

Glenn

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 3:47 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Introduction, and a question

 

A lot of people never wear seatbelts and nothing happens to them, but for some people one day, ...

 

You are talking about probabilities.  I don't believe in taking meaningless risks, even if small, to save a bit of work executing a few commands.

 

A lot of people don't use safely remove hardware for a long time and nothing happens to them.  But for some people, one day,...

 

Gene

 

From: Ervin, Glenn

Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 2:39 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Introduction, and a question

 

All I can state is that I have been doing this all along, with no problems.

Glenn

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 2:38 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Introduction, and a question

 

It isn't a good idea to assume things regarding computers.  See this article. 

 

And note that, this article doesn't apply to XP in some ways.  In XP, the default is not the same as in Windows 7.  XP caches material by default, Windows 7 doesn't.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Ervin, Glenn

Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 1:07 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Introduction, and a question

 

Well, I know by checking the percentage when sending a file, and a minute of inactivity will be long enough for any process that is automatic.

Glenn

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 1:02 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Introduction, and a question

 

How do you know?  Maybe you know in the case of a mechanical external hard drive if you hear it make sounds, and they have gotten increasingly quiet over the years, but there is no way to tell with a thumb drive, having no moving parts.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Ervin, Glenn

Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 10:12 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Introduction, and a question

 

Windows always gives the canned message about removing a  drive but I have never paid attention to that, I know when something is being written to it.

Glenn

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2018 10:23 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Introduction, and a question

 

You are saying it will cause problems if you remove the drive while NVDA is running.  I see no reason why problems should be encountered if you unload it first, as discussed in my previous message.

 

As I understood the question, the drive was not trying to be removed while NVDA was running.  NVDA was unloaded, then safely remove hardware was attempted but it always shows the drive shouldn't be removed.  This is because a file remains in use by Windows even if NVDA is removed.  That doesn't mean any information is being sent to the drive except, perhaps, under the condition I specified. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2018 9:50 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Introduction, and a question

 

Hi James,
If you are running NVDA from the thumb drive, then disconnecting it
while it is running will cause problems for NVDA, and you will get no
feedback. So yes, closing down the machine and then disconnecting your
drive is, in my opinion, the best course of action.
Cheers,
Damien.

On 22/07/2018 03:35 PM, James Bentley wrote:
> Ah, yes, that toggle fixed the problem.
> And, I discovered a tutorial  in the NVDA help menu.  So, that problem
> is also fixed.
> I sure wish I had installed NVDA a long time ago.
> Gene, I am going to ask you or, anyone another question.
> I put NVDA Portible on a thumb drive.  I discovered that I can not do a
> safe disconnect because Winndows 7 says that the files are still in use.
> So, I just powered down the box and disconnected that way.  Is this
> normal?  Orr, is there a way around this?
> Gene, thanks,
> James B
> *From:* Gene <mailto:gsasner@...>
> *Sent:* Sunday, July 22, 2018 9:12 AM
> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> *Subject:* Re: [nvda] Introduction, and a question
> Try NVDA key, either insert by default, f4. You should hear either speak
> command keys on or speak command keys off.   It's a toggle.  If off, you
> shouldn't hear the announcement.
> Gene
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* James Bentley <mailto:bentleyj1952@...>
> *Sent:* Sunday, July 22, 2018 5:34 AM
> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> *Subject:* [nvda] Introduction, and a question
> Hi all,
> I am James Bentley from East Texas.
> I recently installed NVDA out of curiosity and for a backup to Jaws.
> I am extremely impressed with NVDA.  Its small, efficient, and
> surprisingly powerful.  Especially since it is free of charge.  I
> predict it will continue to grow and improve at a rapid rate.
> May I start with 2 quick questions?
> Is there a tutorial available?
> And, Is it possible to stop NVDA from saying, arrow up or arrow down
> while I am arrowing  up and down through a web page?
> Many thanks.  And, I’m glad to be here.
> James B
>


Re: Accessible voice and text chat

Lino Morales <linomorales001@...>
 

Well I’ve sent some feedback and I am still part of the Insiders. I do see some relevant feedback on their from time to time. It really does help.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@...>
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 4:48:54 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Accessible voice and text chat
 

If you are on windows 7 you cannot use the feedback hub. I’ve seen some of the feedback some people leave. I actually vote it down as for me it is of no value, and some are trolls. I was a part of the insider program for a while and I saw a lot of feedback of people complaining just to complain.. But yeah take a look at some of the feedback that’s there and you will see what I mean. Some of it is, um, interesting and I dunno why it is not just removed.

On 23 Jul 2018, at 13:42, Lino Morales wrote:

Well hey like I said on another list. This is the new MS. Under Satia Nedella I think they are doing an awesome job. I can’t stress enough here and the other lists I’m on to use that good ole Feedback Hub. Yes kids MS does read your feedback.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Antony Stone <antony.stone@...>
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 4:40:01 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Accessible voice and text chat
 
Microsoft may have a better record on accessibility than "many other
companies", but depending on which other companies you compare them with, that
may not be saying much.

Also, given their overwhelming dominance in the desktop (laptop) computing
market, I think they have not done as well as they should have done in terms
of accessibility.

I think Apple were late starters in the accessibility arena, but once they
decided to go for it, they showed how it should be done, and Microsoft have
simply played catch-up, in order to avoid total embarrassment (rather like
they had to in the mid 90s when they suddenly realised that people had found
out about the Internet, and if they didn't do something quick, they'd be left
behind in the networked world).


Antony.

On Monday 23 July 2018 at 22:29:59, Gene wrote:

> I'm saying this not as a moderator, but as a list member.  I really object
> to you giving companies disparaging nicknames and I especially object to
> it when the company has a much better record on accessibility than many
> other companies.
>
> Gene
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> On 7/24/2018 4:13 AM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
> > I never actually lost trust in MS. I knew that skype was in time going
> > to be a good thing and  talk about html was in happening  even since
> > about 2004 if I remember correctly. Skype has come a long way and we
> > have to thank microslop for  it. They  made skype what it is today, a
> > ver good tool for my jobs and more.

--
There's a good theatrical performance about puns on in the West End.  It's a
play on words.

                                                   Please reply to the list;
                                                         please *don't* CC me.




Re: Introduction, and a question

Antony Stone
 

I totally agree.

"Safely remove this device" was put there for a purpose.

Microsoft is good at making things as easy for the user (and hiding the
technical details) as possible - they wouldn't include something like this if
they didn't know there was a good reason behind it.

Antony.

On Monday 23 July 2018 at 22:46:35, Gene wrote:

A lot of people never wear seatbelts and nothing happens to them, but for
some people one day, ...

You are talking about probabilities. I don't believe in taking meaningless
risks, even if small, to save a bit of work executing a few commands.

A lot of people don't use safely remove hardware for a long time and
nothing happens to them. But for some people, one day,...

Gene


From: Ervin, Glenn
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 2:39 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Introduction, and a question


All I can state is that I have been doing this all along, with no problems.

Glenn





From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 2:38 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Introduction, and a question



It isn't a good idea to assume things regarding computers. See this
article.

https://www.howtogeek.com/118546/htg-explains-do-you-really-need-to-safely-
remove-usb-sticks/



And note that, this article doesn't apply to XP in some ways. In XP, the
default is not the same as in Windows 7. XP caches material by default,
Windows 7 doesn't.



Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Ervin, Glenn

Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 1:07 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] Introduction, and a question



Well, I know by checking the percentage when sending a file, and a minute
of inactivity will be long enough for any process that is automatic.

Glenn



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 1:02 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Introduction, and a question



How do you know? Maybe you know in the case of a mechanical external hard
drive if you hear it make sounds, and they have gotten increasingly quiet
over the years, but there is no way to tell with a thumb drive, having no
moving parts.



Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Ervin, Glenn

Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 10:12 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] Introduction, and a question



Windows always gives the canned message about removing a drive but I have
never paid attention to that, I know when something is being written to
it.

Glenn





From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2018 10:23 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Introduction, and a question



You are saying it will cause problems if you remove the drive while NVDA is
running. I see no reason why problems should be encountered if you unload
it first, as discussed in my previous message.



As I understood the question, the drive was not trying to be removed while
NVDA was running. NVDA was unloaded, then safely remove hardware was
attempted but it always shows the drive shouldn't be removed. This is
because a file remains in use by Windows even if NVDA is removed. That
doesn't mean any information is being sent to the drive except, perhaps,
under the condition I specified.



Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Damien Garwood

Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2018 9:50 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] Introduction, and a question



Hi James,
If you are running NVDA from the thumb drive, then disconnecting it
while it is running will cause problems for NVDA, and you will get no
feedback. So yes, closing down the machine and then disconnecting your
drive is, in my opinion, the best course of action.
Cheers,
Damien.

On 22/07/2018 03:35 PM, James Bentley wrote:
Ah, yes, that toggle fixed the problem.
And, I discovered a tutorial in the NVDA help menu. So, that problem
is also fixed.
I sure wish I had installed NVDA a long time ago.
Gene, I am going to ask you or, anyone another question.
I put NVDA Portible on a thumb drive. I discovered that I can not do a
safe disconnect because Winndows 7 says that the files are still in use.
So, I just powered down the box and disconnected that way. Is this
normal? Orr, is there a way around this?
Gene, thanks,
James B
*From:* Gene <mailto:gsasner@...>
*Sent:* Sunday, July 22, 2018 9:12 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Introduction, and a question
Try NVDA key, either insert by default, f4. You should hear either speak
command keys on or speak command keys off. It's a toggle. If off, you
shouldn't hear the announcement.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* James Bentley <mailto:bentleyj1952@...>
*Sent:* Sunday, July 22, 2018 5:34 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* [nvda] Introduction, and a question
Hi all,
I am James Bentley from East Texas.
I recently installed NVDA out of curiosity and for a backup to Jaws.
I am extremely impressed with NVDA. Its small, efficient, and
surprisingly powerful. Especially since it is free of charge. I
predict it will continue to grow and improve at a rapid rate.
May I start with 2 quick questions?
Is there a tutorial available?
And, Is it possible to stop NVDA from saying, arrow up or arrow down
while I am arrowing up and down through a web page?
Many thanks. And, I’m glad to be here.
James B


Re: Accessible voice and text chat

Tyler Wood
 

A few years ago I might have agreed with you on microsoft playing catch up.


These days, as you say, Microsoft is everywhere. Seeing AI is simply a revolutionary tool on the smartphone and is not made by apple. Similarly, narrator is quickly becoming a replacement for your every day screen reader. Keep in mind that the NFB went at apple pretty hard back in the day, too, so it isn't as though their bringing more accessibility into the market was voluntary. Microsoft has pretty decent accessibility on the Xbox, as well, a far cry from Sony who, even though they released so called accessibility first, are still missing crutial tts in areas like the system settings 4 years later. Playing catch up, indeed.

I'm curious where you think microsoft is lacking in accessibility these days? Considering we have quite a few folks with disabilities working for microsoft as well as apple, I think they're on a pretty level playing field.

On 23-Jul-2018 3:40 PM, Antony Stone wrote:
Microsoft may have a better record on accessibility than "many other
companies", but depending on which other companies you compare them with, that
may not be saying much.

Also, given their overwhelming dominance in the desktop (laptop) computing
market, I think they have not done as well as they should have done in terms
of accessibility.

I think Apple were late starters in the accessibility arena, but once they
decided to go for it, they showed how it should be done, and Microsoft have
simply played catch-up, in order to avoid total embarrassment (rather like
they had to in the mid 90s when they suddenly realised that people had found
out about the Internet, and if they didn't do something quick, they'd be left
behind in the networked world).


Antony.

On Monday 23 July 2018 at 22:29:59, Gene wrote:

I'm saying this not as a moderator, but as a list member. I really object
to you giving companies disparaging nicknames and I especially object to
it when the company has a much better record on accessibility than many
other companies.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

On 7/24/2018 4:13 AM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
I never actually lost trust in MS. I knew that skype was in time going
to be a good thing and talk about html was in happening even since
about 2004 if I remember correctly. Skype has come a long way and we
have to thank microslop for it. They made skype what it is today, a
ver good tool for my jobs and more.


Re: Accessible voice and text chat

Sarah k Alawami
 

If you are on windows 7 you cannot use the feedback hub. I’ve seen some of the feedback some people leave. I actually vote it down as for me it is of no value, and some are trolls. I was a part of the insider program for a while and I saw a lot of feedback of people complaining just to complain.. But yeah take a look at some of the feedback that’s there and you will see what I mean. Some of it is, um, interesting and I dunno why it is not just removed.

On 23 Jul 2018, at 13:42, Lino Morales wrote:

Well hey like I said on another list. This is the new MS. Under Satia Nedella I think they are doing an awesome job. I can’t stress enough here and the other lists I’m on to use that good ole Feedback Hub. Yes kids MS does read your feedback.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Antony Stone <antony.stone@...>
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 4:40:01 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Accessible voice and text chat
 
Microsoft may have a better record on accessibility than "many other
companies", but depending on which other companies you compare them with, that
may not be saying much.

Also, given their overwhelming dominance in the desktop (laptop) computing
market, I think they have not done as well as they should have done in terms
of accessibility.

I think Apple were late starters in the accessibility arena, but once they
decided to go for it, they showed how it should be done, and Microsoft have
simply played catch-up, in order to avoid total embarrassment (rather like
they had to in the mid 90s when they suddenly realised that people had found
out about the Internet, and if they didn't do something quick, they'd be left
behind in the networked world).


Antony.

On Monday 23 July 2018 at 22:29:59, Gene wrote:

> I'm saying this not as a moderator, but as a list member.  I really object
> to you giving companies disparaging nicknames and I especially object to
> it when the company has a much better record on accessibility than many
> other companies.
>
> Gene
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> On 7/24/2018 4:13 AM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
> > I never actually lost trust in MS. I knew that skype was in time going
> > to be a good thing and  talk about html was in happening  even since
> > about 2004 if I remember correctly. Skype has come a long way and we
> > have to thank microslop for  it. They  made skype what it is today, a
> > ver good tool for my jobs and more.

--
There's a good theatrical performance about puns on in the West End.  It's a
play on words.

                                                   Please reply to the list;
                                                         please *don't* CC me.




Re: Introduction, and a question

Gene
 

In what version of Windows did you first see this action?
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 2:44 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Introduction, and a question

Gene,

It is a default Windows action, I only use Microsoft’s anti-virus and malware (mrt) tools.

I tried a malware one lately, Malware Bytes, but I removed it.

Glenn

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 2:42 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Introduction, and a question

 

You may get that message on your machine, for some reason.  I have never gotten such a message on four machines.  maybe an antimalware program is offering to scan it but it is not a default action in Windows unless Windows 8 and 10 have such a default action.  I haven't used either version.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Ervin, Glenn

Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 1:17 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Introduction, and a question

 

Whenever you plug in a drive, you get the message to scan it.

Once you do scan it, it is good for a time, or unless you change the drive label.

That is one I escape out of all the time.

Glenn

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 1:15 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Introduction, and a question

 

I don't know what messages you are talking about.  if you use safely remove hardware, there is no canned message about scanning and removing.  If the drive can safely be removed, you get a message that the drive can safely be removed.  If it can't, you get a message that it can't.  I haven't seen any reputable advisor, such as Kim Komando, advocate ignoring such messages.  I've said that at times, it is alright to remove a drive if you get a not safe to remove message, such as in the case of when you run NVDA from a thumb drive.  In a specific case like that, where you unload NVDA but you still can't remove the drive, it is because a file is still being used by Windows.  it is not released by Windows for some reason and It won't be.  I explained in previous messages what I would do.  I see that Joseph Lee seems to give a much shorter waiting time, if I understand his message correctly.  But usually, when a file is not being held in use by Windows for no reason, if you get a message that it is unsafe to remove a drive, it isn't and you should use safely remove hardware again to see if you get the safe to remove announcement. 

 

You may get away with ignoring such messages and not using Safely Remove hardware most of the time but what about the time when you don't?  These features aren't just placed in Windows because some programmer had nothing to do.  They are placed there for a reason. 

 

You can set parameters regarding external drives so that you never have to use Safely remove Hardware.  I won't go into that here.  But unless you know the parameters are set in that way, I wouldn't take the chance. 

 

How do I know what Joe stranger or Joe friend or public library administrator did, if anything, regarding these settings?

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Ervin, Glenn

Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 10:34 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Introduction, and a question

 

James,
I don't see the possibility of corrupting any files.
I ignore those canned messages from Microsoft about scanning and removing.
But if you scan it once, it should not ask you again for that particular drive for some time.
But I never power down drives and have never had a problem.
Glenn


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of James Bentley
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 8:39 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Introduction, and a question

Hi,

I would like to use NVDA portible on a thumb drive on public computers.
And, friends computers.

So, I better double check some thing here.  If files do get corrupted, will it be just  on my thumb drive?  I sure do not want to mess up a computer that doesn't even belong to me.

Thanks for your thoughts,

James B



-----Original Message-----
From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 4:56 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Introduction, and a question

Well, In the main it seems to have no actual impact at all. Its a bit like an sd card I have it keeps on telling me its been disconnected  badly when I plug it in and can it scan it yet it finds no issues with it. I'm note sure if its some logging or just that windows 7 is a little slow at releasing files. I've seen this with the log file even on the installed copy that stops the update always running as the log is locked. Its easy to fix this, by esc and then a relaunch, but I am almost sure its on windows 7 machines with ssd drives for some odd reason.

Incidentally you may find that using a pen copy on windows 10 is not as useful as more of the operating system needs admin access to allow accessibility to work correctly so nvda tries to fall back to older apis and sometimes this is not very  much good.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Bentley" <bentleyj1952@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2018 3:35 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Introduction, and a question


Ah, yes, that toggle fixed the problem.

And, I discovered a tutorial  in the NVDA help menu.  So, that problem is
also fixed.

I sure wish I had installed NVDA a long time ago.

Gene, I am going to ask you or, anyone another question.

I put NVDA Portible on a thumb drive.  I discovered that I can not do a safe
disconnect because Winndows 7 says that the files are still in use.  So, I
just powered down the box and disconnected that way.  Is this normal?  Orr,
is there a way around this?

Gene, thanks,

James B



From: Gene
Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2018 9:12 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Introduction, and a question

Try NVDA key, either insert by default, f4.  You should hear either speak
command keys on or speak command keys off.   It's a toggle.  If off, you
shouldn't hear the announcement.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: James Bentley
Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2018 5:34 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Introduction, and a question

Hi all,

I am James Bentley from East Texas.

I recently installed NVDA out of curiosity and for a backup to Jaws.

I am extremely impressed with NVDA.  Its small, efficient, and surprisingly
powerful.  Especially since it is free of charge.  I predict it will
continue to grow and improve at a rapid rate.
May I start with 2 quick questions?

Is there a tutorial available?

And, Is it possible to stop NVDA from saying, arrow up or arrow down while I
am arrowing  up and down through a web page?

Many thanks.  And, I’m glad to be here.

James B







 






Re: Introduction, and a question

Gene
 

A lot of people never wear seatbelts and nothing happens to them, but for some people one day, ...
 
You are talking about probabilities.  I don't believe in taking meaningless risks, even if small, to save a bit of work executing a few commands.
 
A lot of people don't use safely remove hardware for a long time and nothing happens to them.  But for some people, one day,...
 
Gene

Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 2:39 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Introduction, and a question

All I can state is that I have been doing this all along, with no problems.

Glenn

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 2:38 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Introduction, and a question

 

It isn't a good idea to assume things regarding computers.  See this article. 

 

And note that, this article doesn't apply to XP in some ways.  In XP, the default is not the same as in Windows 7.  XP caches material by default, Windows 7 doesn't.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Ervin, Glenn

Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 1:07 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Introduction, and a question

 

Well, I know by checking the percentage when sending a file, and a minute of inactivity will be long enough for any process that is automatic.

Glenn

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 1:02 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Introduction, and a question

 

How do you know?  Maybe you know in the case of a mechanical external hard drive if you hear it make sounds, and they have gotten increasingly quiet over the years, but there is no way to tell with a thumb drive, having no moving parts.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Ervin, Glenn

Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 10:12 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Introduction, and a question

 

Windows always gives the canned message about removing a  drive but I have never paid attention to that, I know when something is being written to it.

Glenn

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2018 10:23 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Introduction, and a question

 

You are saying it will cause problems if you remove the drive while NVDA is running.  I see no reason why problems should be encountered if you unload it first, as discussed in my previous message.

 

As I understood the question, the drive was not trying to be removed while NVDA was running.  NVDA was unloaded, then safely remove hardware was attempted but it always shows the drive shouldn't be removed.  This is because a file remains in use by Windows even if NVDA is removed.  That doesn't mean any information is being sent to the drive except, perhaps, under the condition I specified. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2018 9:50 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Introduction, and a question

 

Hi James,
If you are running NVDA from the thumb drive, then disconnecting it
while it is running will cause problems for NVDA, and you will get no
feedback. So yes, closing down the machine and then disconnecting your
drive is, in my opinion, the best course of action.
Cheers,
Damien.

On 22/07/2018 03:35 PM, James Bentley wrote:
> Ah, yes, that toggle fixed the problem.
> And, I discovered a tutorial  in the NVDA help menu.  So, that problem
> is also fixed.
> I sure wish I had installed NVDA a long time ago.
> Gene, I am going to ask you or, anyone another question.
> I put NVDA Portible on a thumb drive.  I discovered that I can not do a
> safe disconnect because Winndows 7 says that the files are still in use.
> So, I just powered down the box and disconnected that way.  Is this
> normal?  Orr, is there a way around this?
> Gene, thanks,
> James B
> *From:* Gene <mailto:gsasner@...>
> *Sent:* Sunday, July 22, 2018 9:12 AM
> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> *Subject:* Re: [nvda] Introduction, and a question
> Try NVDA key, either insert by default, f4. You should hear either speak
> command keys on or speak command keys off.   It's a toggle.  If off, you
> shouldn't hear the announcement.
> Gene
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* James Bentley <mailto:bentleyj1952@...>
> *Sent:* Sunday, July 22, 2018 5:34 AM
> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> *Subject:* [nvda] Introduction, and a question
> Hi all,
> I am James Bentley from East Texas.
> I recently installed NVDA out of curiosity and for a backup to Jaws.
> I am extremely impressed with NVDA.  Its small, efficient, and
> surprisingly powerful.  Especially since it is free of charge.  I
> predict it will continue to grow and improve at a rapid rate.
> May I start with 2 quick questions?
> Is there a tutorial available?
> And, Is it possible to stop NVDA from saying, arrow up or arrow down
> while I am arrowing  up and down through a web page?
> Many thanks.  And, I’m glad to be here.
> James B
>


Re: Accessible voice and text chat

Lino Morales <linomorales001@...>
 

Well hey like I said on another list. This is the new MS. Under Satia Nedella I think they are doing an awesome job. I can’t stress enough here and the other lists I’m on to use that good ole Feedback Hub. Yes kids MS does read your feedback.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Antony Stone <antony.stone@...>
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 4:40:01 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Accessible voice and text chat
 
Microsoft may have a better record on accessibility than "many other
companies", but depending on which other companies you compare them with, that
may not be saying much.

Also, given their overwhelming dominance in the desktop (laptop) computing
market, I think they have not done as well as they should have done in terms
of accessibility.

I think Apple were late starters in the accessibility arena, but once they
decided to go for it, they showed how it should be done, and Microsoft have
simply played catch-up, in order to avoid total embarrassment (rather like
they had to in the mid 90s when they suddenly realised that people had found
out about the Internet, and if they didn't do something quick, they'd be left
behind in the networked world).


Antony.

On Monday 23 July 2018 at 22:29:59, Gene wrote:

> I'm saying this not as a moderator, but as a list member.  I really object
> to you giving companies disparaging nicknames and I especially object to
> it when the company has a much better record on accessibility than many
> other companies.
>
> Gene
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> On 7/24/2018 4:13 AM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
> > I never actually lost trust in MS. I knew that skype was in time going
> > to be a good thing and  talk about html was in happening  even since
> > about 2004 if I remember correctly. Skype has come a long way and we
> > have to thank microslop for  it. They  made skype what it is today, a
> > ver good tool for my jobs and more.

--
There's a good theatrical performance about puns on in the West End.  It's a
play on words.

                                                   Please reply to the list;
                                                         please *don't* CC me.




Re: Accessible voice and text chat

Sarah k Alawami
 

Although they are getting better, they still have a long way to go Apple are much much better at accessibility especially with their own softwares then mocrosoft, at least for now. Mocrosoft have a lot of catching up, and they know it.

I still say to the original poster, use skype, it is getting better, and it has a long way to go, but get used to it, or switch to zoom, which I would not use just for chatting purposes. It’s way too over powered for that.

On 23 Jul 2018, at 13:29, Gene wrote:

I'm saying this not as a moderator, but as a list member.  I really object to you giving companies disparaging nicknames and I especially object to it when the company has a much better record on accessibility than many other companies. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
On 7/24/2018 4:13 AM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
> I never actually lost trust in MS. I knew that skype was in time going
> to be a good thing and  talk about html was in happening  even since
> about 2004 if I remember correctly. Skype has come a long way and we
> have to thank microslop for  it. They  made skype what it is today, a
> ver  good tool for my jobs and more.
>
> Blessings and happy Monday
> Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website:
> http://www.tffppodcast.com
> For stuff we sell, mac training materials and  tutorials go to
> http://www.tffppodcast.com/premium
> and for hosting options go to http://www.tffppodcast.com/hosting
> to subscribe to the feed click here:
> http://feeds.feedburner.com/tffp
> And for the listen page go here:
> http://www.tffppodcast.com/listen
>
> Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here:
> http://www.tffppodcast.com/pod-pledge
> For an android list in the making where android apps, accessibility,
> phones and development can be discussed  subscribe send a blank email to
> androiddiscuss+subscribe@android-discuss.groups.io
> and follow the prompts.
> to visit the subgroups  and subscribe (note you must be subscribed to
> the main group as well) visit the following URL:
> about-android.tffppodcast.com
>
> To subscribe to the skype english list go to
> skypeenglish.tffppodcast.com and send a blank email to the subscribe
> address listed there.
>
> On 23 Jul 2018, at 2:50, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
>
>> Its just that many distrust microsoft, and indeed the old Skype team
>> as it has seemed for years now that its one step forward and two back
>> on accessibility with this particular software, and people are losing
>> patience with it I suspect.
>
>
>
>




Re: Accessible voice and text chat

Antony Stone
 

Microsoft may have a better record on accessibility than "many other
companies", but depending on which other companies you compare them with, that
may not be saying much.

Also, given their overwhelming dominance in the desktop (laptop) computing
market, I think they have not done as well as they should have done in terms
of accessibility.

I think Apple were late starters in the accessibility arena, but once they
decided to go for it, they showed how it should be done, and Microsoft have
simply played catch-up, in order to avoid total embarrassment (rather like
they had to in the mid 90s when they suddenly realised that people had found
out about the Internet, and if they didn't do something quick, they'd be left
behind in the networked world).


Antony.

On Monday 23 July 2018 at 22:29:59, Gene wrote:

I'm saying this not as a moderator, but as a list member. I really object
to you giving companies disparaging nicknames and I especially object to
it when the company has a much better record on accessibility than many
other companies.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

On 7/24/2018 4:13 AM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
I never actually lost trust in MS. I knew that skype was in time going
to be a good thing and talk about html was in happening even since
about 2004 if I remember correctly. Skype has come a long way and we
have to thank microslop for it. They made skype what it is today, a
ver good tool for my jobs and more.
--
There's a good theatrical performance about puns on in the West End. It's a
play on words.

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.


Re: Eloquence or something as good for NVDA

Sarah k Alawami
 

I’ve not tried the speach player. Is that on the official add ons website if so I will give this A try and see how I myself like it. I love the 1core voices, but its’ good to try somethingn different in case the 1core decide to crash or something.

On 23 Jul 2018, at 13:36, James Bentley wrote:

What a coincidence that your email came through right now!  I was going to download that right after checking a few emails.
 
I will post my opinion in a day or 2.
 
James B
 
 
 
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 11:11 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Eloquence or something as good for NVDA
 
I still think you might like the speech player in Espeak add on.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Bentley" <bentleyj1952@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2018 9:59 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Eloquence or something as good for NVDA


I haven’t heard from Richard yet but my impression was that he wanted to
discuss East Texas and other things related to where we live.

After reading your last post, I am pretty certain that I will just use
Eloquence from Code Factory when I come up with the cash.  And, just use the
original NVDA voice on a thumb drive when I want to have speech on a
computer outside of my home.

Gene, thank you for your input.  I sure wouldn’t have been impressed if I
paid around $40,for lousy speech.  Especially since I am so impressed with
NVDA itself.

As I learn more, I will probably be interested in what some of the NVDA add
ons do but I have my plate full right now since I am also learning how to
use Chrome.

Cheers,

James B



From: Gene
Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2018 3:44 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Elequence or something as good for NVDA

There is something else to consider.  First, I may have misunderstood the
request to take the sub ject off list.  It might have referred to where
people live.  I often see people take topics of general interest off lists
and I first thought the request referred to the Eloquence discussion.

As far as the SAPI 5 versus the add on is concerned, I don't think you can
use the SAPI 5 verxsion unless it is installed on the computer you want to
use it with.  I suspect, though you would have to check, that you can use
the add with a portable version and that it would run with the rest of NVDA
from a thumb drive.  Perhaps, considering the problem of artifacts, you
might want to have both versions, depending on where you are going to use
the artifact.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Gene
Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2018 3:38 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Elequence or something as good for NVDA

Why do people want to take things off list that are of general interest.
This is such a topic.  There are demos of the Code Factory SAPI 5 Eloquence
and of the add on, which has both Eloquence and another series of voices.
The Eloquence in the add on, I don't recall who makes and distributes it,
has lots of artifacts and is significantly inferior for that reason.  All
sorts of unwanted and annoying sounds occur.  the other synthesizer included
is fine, but not the Eloquence.

I suggest trying either or both demos when deciding what you might want to
use.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Richard Wells
Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2018 1:56 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Elequence or something as good for NVDA

Write me privately at richwels@... and I'll talk more about this.




On 7/22/2018 1:48 PM, James Bentley wrote:

  Do you know if the Code Factory version is the best.

  I have heard that at least one of the 2 versions out there is glitchy.

  James B


  From: Richard Wells
  Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2018 1:03 PM
  To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
  Subject: Re: [nvda] Elequence or something as good for NVDA

  James, they allow three installations of Eloquence if you are referring to
the Code Factory product.




  On 7/22/2018 10:01 AM, James Bentley wrote:

    Hi all,

    I have questions about diffferent  voices for NVDA.

    If I purchase Elequence for NVDA, do I have to pay around 40 dollars for
each PC that I am using?

    Can the portible NVDA be set up with Elequence or something almost as
good?

    Thanks,

    James B













Re: Eloquence or something as good for NVDA

Lino Morales <linomorales001@...>
 

All I have to say is Eloquence sucks along with ESPeak. If you are running WIN 8.x or 10 the on board MS One Core or SAPI 5 ones are great.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of James Bentley <bentleyj1952@...>
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 4:36:24 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Eloquence or something as good for NVDA
 
What a coincidence that your email came through right now!  I was going to download that right after checking a few emails.
 
I will post my opinion in a day or 2.
 
James B
 
 
 
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 11:11 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Eloquence or something as good for NVDA
 
I still think you might like the speech player in Espeak add on.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Bentley" <bentleyj1952@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2018 9:59 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Eloquence or something as good for NVDA


I haven’t heard from Richard yet but my impression was that he wanted to
discuss East Texas and other things related to where we live.

After reading your last post, I am pretty certain that I will just use
Eloquence from Code Factory when I come up with the cash.  And, just use the
original NVDA voice on a thumb drive when I want to have speech on a
computer outside of my home.

Gene, thank you for your input.  I sure wouldn’t have been impressed if I
paid around $40,for lousy speech.  Especially since I am so impressed with
NVDA itself.

As I learn more, I will probably be interested in what some of the NVDA add
ons do but I have my plate full right now since I am also learning how to
use Chrome.

Cheers,

James B



From: Gene
Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2018 3:44 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Elequence or something as good for NVDA

There is something else to consider.  First, I may have misunderstood the
request to take the sub ject off list.  It might have referred to where
people live.  I often see people take topics of general interest off lists
and I first thought the request referred to the Eloquence discussion.

As far as the SAPI 5 versus the add on is concerned, I don't think you can
use the SAPI 5 verxsion unless it is installed on the computer you want to
use it with.  I suspect, though you would have to check, that you can use
the add with a portable version and that it would run with the rest of NVDA
from a thumb drive.  Perhaps, considering the problem of artifacts, you
might want to have both versions, depending on where you are going to use
the artifact.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Gene
Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2018 3:38 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Elequence or something as good for NVDA

Why do people want to take things off list that are of general interest.
This is such a topic.  There are demos of the Code Factory SAPI 5 Eloquence
and of the add on, which has both Eloquence and another series of voices.
The Eloquence in the add on, I don't recall who makes and distributes it,
has lots of artifacts and is significantly inferior for that reason.  All
sorts of unwanted and annoying sounds occur.  the other synthesizer included
is fine, but not the Eloquence.

I suggest trying either or both demos when deciding what you might want to
use.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Richard Wells
Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2018 1:56 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Elequence or something as good for NVDA

Write me privately at richwels@... and I'll talk more about this.




On 7/22/2018 1:48 PM, James Bentley wrote:

  Do you know if the Code Factory version is the best.

  I have heard that at least one of the 2 versions out there is glitchy.

  James B


  From: Richard Wells
  Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2018 1:03 PM
  To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
  Subject: Re: [nvda] Elequence or something as good for NVDA

  James, they allow three installations of Eloquence if you are referring to
the Code Factory product.




  On 7/22/2018 10:01 AM, James Bentley wrote:

    Hi all,

    I have questions about diffferent  voices for NVDA.

    If I purchase Elequence for NVDA, do I have to pay around 40 dollars for
each PC that I am using?

    Can the portible NVDA be set up with Elequence or something almost as
good?

    Thanks,

    James B













Re: Eloquence or something as good for NVDA

James Bentley <bentleyj1952@...>
 

What a coincidence that your email came through right now!  I was going to download that right after checking a few emails.
 
I will post my opinion in a day or 2.
 
James B
 
 
 

Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 11:11 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Eloquence or something as good for NVDA
 
I still think you might like the speech player in Espeak add on.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Bentley" <bentleyj1952@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2018 9:59 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Eloquence or something as good for NVDA


I haven’t heard from Richard yet but my impression was that he wanted to
discuss East Texas and other things related to where we live.

After reading your last post, I am pretty certain that I will just use
Eloquence from Code Factory when I come up with the cash.  And, just use the
original NVDA voice on a thumb drive when I want to have speech on a
computer outside of my home.

Gene, thank you for your input.  I sure wouldn’t have been impressed if I
paid around $40,for lousy speech.  Especially since I am so impressed with
NVDA itself.

As I learn more, I will probably be interested in what some of the NVDA add
ons do but I have my plate full right now since I am also learning how to
use Chrome.

Cheers,

James B



From: Gene
Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2018 3:44 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Elequence or something as good for NVDA

There is something else to consider.  First, I may have misunderstood the
request to take the sub ject off list.  It might have referred to where
people live.  I often see people take topics of general interest off lists
and I first thought the request referred to the Eloquence discussion.

As far as the SAPI 5 versus the add on is concerned, I don't think you can
use the SAPI 5 verxsion unless it is installed on the computer you want to
use it with.  I suspect, though you would have to check, that you can use
the add with a portable version and that it would run with the rest of NVDA
from a thumb drive.  Perhaps, considering the problem of artifacts, you
might want to have both versions, depending on where you are going to use
the artifact.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Gene
Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2018 3:38 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Elequence or something as good for NVDA

Why do people want to take things off list that are of general interest.
This is such a topic.  There are demos of the Code Factory SAPI 5 Eloquence
and of the add on, which has both Eloquence and another series of voices.
The Eloquence in the add on, I don't recall who makes and distributes it,
has lots of artifacts and is significantly inferior for that reason.  All
sorts of unwanted and annoying sounds occur.  the other synthesizer included
is fine, but not the Eloquence.

I suggest trying either or both demos when deciding what you might want to
use.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Richard Wells
Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2018 1:56 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Elequence or something as good for NVDA

Write me privately at richwels@... and I'll talk more about this.




On 7/22/2018 1:48 PM, James Bentley wrote:

  Do you know if the Code Factory version is the best.

  I have heard that at least one of the 2 versions out there is glitchy.

  James B


  From: Richard Wells
  Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2018 1:03 PM
  To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
  Subject: Re: [nvda] Elequence or something as good for NVDA

  James, they allow three installations of Eloquence if you are referring to
the Code Factory product.




  On 7/22/2018 10:01 AM, James Bentley wrote:

    Hi all,

    I have questions about diffferent  voices for NVDA.

    If I purchase Elequence for NVDA, do I have to pay around 40 dollars for
each PC that I am using?

    Can the portible NVDA be set up with Elequence or something almost as
good?

    Thanks,

    James B













Re: Accessible voice and text chat

Gene
 

I'm saying this not as a moderator, but as a list member.  I really object to you giving companies disparaging nicknames and I especially object to it when the company has a much better record on accessibility than many other companies. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
On 7/24/2018 4:13 AM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
> I never actually lost trust in MS. I knew that skype was in time going
> to be a good thing and  talk about html was in happening  even since
> about 2004 if I remember correctly. Skype has come a long way and we
> have to thank microslop for  it. They  made skype what it is today, a
> ver  good tool for my jobs and more.
>
> Blessings and happy Monday
> Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website:
> http://www.tffppodcast.com
> For stuff we sell, mac training materials and  tutorials go to
> http://www.tffppodcast.com/premium
> and for hosting options go to http://www.tffppodcast.com/hosting
> to subscribe to the feed click here:
> http://feeds.feedburner.com/tffp
> And for the listen page go here:
> http://www.tffppodcast.com/listen
>
> Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here:
> http://www.tffppodcast.com/pod-pledge
> For an android list in the making where android apps, accessibility,
> phones and development can be discussed  subscribe send a blank email to
> androiddiscuss+subscribe@android-discuss.groups.io
> and follow the prompts.
> to visit the subgroups  and subscribe (note you must be subscribed to
> the main group as well) visit the following URL:
> about-android.tffppodcast.com
>
> To subscribe to the skype english list go to
> skypeenglish.tffppodcast.com and send a blank email to the subscribe
> address listed there.
>
> On 23 Jul 2018, at 2:50, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
>
>> Its just that many distrust microsoft, and indeed the old Skype team
>> as it has seemed for years now that its one step forward and two back
>> on accessibility with this particular software, and people are losing
>> patience with it I suspect.
>
>
>
>