Here is my wisdom!
If you have nothing good to say, say nothing, that would be so much better!
If you have a problem with someone, say it to their face, quit being evasive
with members on the list, who can do nothing about your gripe. Talk to MS
yourself!
David Moore


Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: John Isige
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2018 3:35 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] My thoughts on offensive company names and so on.

Well for me, I don't care about the offensiveness so much. What I care
about is stuff like:

Last night I was using elocrash with Skum from Microslop and I tried
with the shark and Microslop Notreader and NVDA and nothing was
working"! I'm sorry, l33t (look it up if you don't know/remember) wasn't
cool back in the 80s when it got started, and this stuff that's
essentially an equivalent of it isn't cool either. I know, just like the
l33t k1dz whu t0t3z roxxorz! you think you're terribly terribly clever,
but just as they weren't, really, you're not.

That's my problem, having to parse whatever dumb gibberish people think
is clever this week because all they can do is puns, the lowest form of
humor, on company names that really don't work anyway, instead of coming
up with something that's actually witty and meaningful. You see what I
did there? I actually wrote real words that everybody can understand and
stuff instead of going "shut up, John Isicky"! It also seems really odd
to insult a company you just got done saying did something right, but
maybe that's just that irony all you young people are supposed to be
into nowadays, and I'm just too old to get it. Besides, you will never
beat the pun on HP-UX, which is both obvious and funny, so really,
there's no point to it all anyway. I'll leave the working out of that
pun as an exercise for the reader.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with the offensive part too. While I realize
companies, e.g. Microsoft, have a history to live down, a lot of that
was quite a while ago. Plus, how are they ever going to live it down or
get better if we're not giving them a chance, semi-praising them on the
one hand and insulting them on the other? You think that will make them
want to keep putting in the work for accessibility? Also, what in the
world is up with this "they're playing catch-up" stuff? Ooooo, Apple did
accessibility right, they showed everybody how it's done! OK, and then
you're upset that somebody's copying that? I mean, if Apple's so super
special awesome and all, shouldn't we want everybody and their fifth
cousin to copy them, such that we have proper accessibility on every
conceivable platform? Why are you complaining that other companies are
doing something like that? That should be, as I believe I've said when
it was mentioned that keyboard commands were being changed to be more
like other screen readers, exactly what we want. For example, my wife
bought a used mac for us. I read this article:

https://www.applevis.com/blog/apple-mac-os-x/debunking-common-myths-about-voiceover-mac

Looking at the web section, I see we've got commands to jump by headings
and all, and it seems pretty similar to other screen readers. Great!
That's less time wasted in trying to figure out how to do simple things,
and more time using the mac. Obviously I want to get more familiar with
the mac way of doing things and not just do what I'm doing on Windows,
because maybe mac does something better. But that will happen over time.
If I want to sit down and start checking something out to see what it's
like, the more barriers in my way like "learn an entirely different set
of commands and things just to navigate a web page", the less likely I
am to want to use that thing.

I'm not suggesting that every screen reader should work exactly like
every other screen reader. I'm saying that there should be a base set of
things that are pretty similar, e.g. I can do a lot of the same basic
stuff to get around in Android that I can do to get around in iOS. Sure,
if I really want to use either one, I'm going to have to learn their
specifics, but in general, I can pick up either kind of device with a
screen reader active and start using it to do stuff, no problem. You can
see this with NVDA too. What's the thing most people get hung up on?

That's right, object navigation. I use it a lot more now, particularly
if something isn't reading what I think it should, but it was confusing
for a bit until I got Joseph's tutorial. But you know what? Part of that
was because it was different from other screen readers I'd used, but
part of it was that I didn't have to worry about using it for a long
time, because NVDA does what I'm talking about. If you've used NVDA and
JFW, as I assume most people here have, you know there's a lot of stuff
that's similar between them in how you access Windows, e.g. using the
arrow keys and such.

But maybe you actually find object navigation better than the jaws
cursor. I'll give you an example, on the mac if you're reading a table,
you interact with it. Then you read it like you read any other thing. So
there's only, potentially, one extra command to remember, you have to
interact first. I don't have to try and learn a whole new set of table
navigation keystrokes. I used that example because it's fresh in my mind
and I honestly don't remember enough about how JFW did things to say
what's better or worse between it and NVDA.

Anyway the point to this rambling is that we shouldn't be implying that
other companies are substandard or whatever, because they've got feature
Y that looks a lot like feature X from Company Z's screen reader Lava
Talk, the screen reader that spits fire! We should be going "awesome,
they realized what works already, that's gonna save me a lot of time if
I ever have to learn or use that screen reader, especially if it's on
short notice". We shouldn't be complaining that they're "catching up". I
say, are they doing the work? Great, that means more stuff I can use in
more situations. Any "catching up" being done is nothing but a benefit
to us, pure and simple. Here's one last example. Microsoft now has it so
you can use Narrator in safe mode. How awesome would it be if they had a
key you could hold down while Windows is booting, like the recovery keys
on a mac, that boots you into safe mode automatically? Right now I'm
pretty sure you still have to hit a key and pick from a menu, which
means sighted assistance, if you want to be sure you've got it right.
How cool would it be to hold down, I don't know, Windows-n on boot and
get safe mode with networking, and just waiting a bit and then launching
Narrator and geting speech? I don't know about anybody else, but it
sounds really nice to me, if I ever encounter a problem.

There, I think I'm done. Except to say, again, that we should be
praising companies who are trying to do right, even if we think it took
them long enough, instead of slamming them for that and inventing dumb
insulting names for them. If they're doing right, or trying to do right,
then that's what they're doing, and we should only encourage it. Sure,
if they mess up, tell them so, hopefully constructively. I'm not saying
we should only be nice and say only good things about the stuff
companies make. But by all the gods, have some perspective. Your names
are neither cute nor clever, and we're not twelve any more. I'm pretty
sure I'm like, 14 or something.

Hay I was wondering if you still use the free you tube down loader for
windows?  I was wondering if the program is still accessible?  I am
asking because you did a demo on the program.  I have not updated the
program in a year butt I am using the older version. Just let me know.

Hay I was wondering if you still use the free you tube down loader for
windows?  I was wondering if the program is still accessible?  I am
asking because you did a demo on the program.  I have not updated the
program in a year butt I am using the older version. Just let me know.

Well for me, I don't care about the offensiveness so much. What I care

about is stuff like:

Last night I was using elocrash with Skum from Microslop and I tried

with the shark and Microslop Notreader and NVDA and nothing was

working"! I'm sorry, l33t (look it up if you don't know/remember) wasn't

cool back in the 80s when it got started, and this stuff that's

essentially an equivalent of it isn't cool either. I know, just like the

l33t k1dz whu t0t3z roxxorz! you think you're terribly terribly clever,

but just as they weren't, really, you're not.

That's my problem, having to parse whatever dumb gibberish people think

is clever this week because all they can do is puns, the lowest form of

humor, on company names that really don't work anyway, instead of coming

up with something that's actually witty and meaningful. You see what I

did there? I actually wrote real words that everybody can understand and

stuff instead of going "shut up, John Isicky"! It also seems really odd

to insult a company you just got done saying did something right, but

maybe that's just that irony all you young people are supposed to be

into nowadays, and I'm just too old to get it. Besides, you will never

beat the pun on HP-UX, which is both obvious and funny, so really,

there's no point to it all anyway. I'll leave the working out of that

pun as an exercise for the reader.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with the offensive part too. While I realize

companies, e.g. Microsoft, have a history to live down, a lot of that

was quite a while ago. Plus, how are they ever going to live it down or

get better if we're not giving them a chance, semi-praising them on the

one hand and insulting them on the other? You think that will make them

want to keep putting in the work for accessibility? Also, what in the

world is up with this "they're playing catch-up" stuff? Ooooo, Apple did

accessibility right, they showed everybody how it's done! OK, and then

you're upset that somebody's copying that? I mean, if Apple's so super

special awesome and all, shouldn't we want everybody and their fifth

cousin to copy them, such that we have proper accessibility on every

conceivable platform? Why are you complaining that other companies are

doing something like that? That should be, as I believe I've said when

it was mentioned that keyboard commands were being changed to be more

like other screen readers, exactly what we want. For example, my wife

bought a used mac for us. I read this article:

https://www.applevis.com/blog/apple-mac-os-x/debunking-common-myths-about-voiceover-mac

Looking at the web section, I see we've got commands to jump by headings

and all, and it seems pretty similar to other screen readers. Great!

That's less time wasted in trying to figure out how to do simple things,

and more time using the mac. Obviously I want to get more familiar with

the mac way of doing things and not just do what I'm doing on Windows,

because maybe mac does something better. But that will happen over time.

If I want to sit down and start checking something out to see what it's

like, the more barriers in my way like "learn an entirely different set

of commands and things just to navigate a web page", the less likely I

am to want to use that thing.

I'm not suggesting that every screen reader should work exactly like

every other screen reader. I'm saying that there should be a base set of

things that are pretty similar, e.g. I can do a lot of the same basic

stuff to get around in Android that I can do to get around in iOS. Sure,

if I really want to use either one, I'm going to have to learn their

specifics, but in general, I can pick up either kind of device with a

screen reader active and start using it to do stuff, no problem. You can

see this with NVDA too. What's the thing most people get hung up on?

That's right, object navigation. I use it a lot more now, particularly

if something isn't reading what I think it should, but it was confusing

for a bit until I got Joseph's tutorial. But you know what? Part of that

was because it was different from other screen readers I'd used, but

part of it was that I didn't have to worry about using it for a long

time, because NVDA does what I'm talking about. If you've used NVDA and

JFW, as I assume most people here have, you know there's a lot of stuff

that's similar between them in how you access Windows, e.g. using the

arrow keys and such.

But maybe you actually find object navigation better than the jaws

cursor. I'll give you an example, on the mac if you're reading a table,

you interact with it. Then you read it like you read any other thing. So

there's only, potentially, one extra command to remember, you have to

interact first. I don't have to try and learn a whole new set of table

navigation keystrokes. I used that example because it's fresh in my mind

and I honestly don't remember enough about how JFW did things to say

what's better or worse between it and NVDA.

Anyway the point to this rambling is that we shouldn't be implying that

other companies are substandard or whatever, because they've got feature

Y that looks a lot like feature X from Company Z's screen reader Lava

Talk, the screen reader that spits fire! We should be going "awesome,

they realized what works already, that's gonna save me a lot of time if

I ever have to learn or use that screen reader, especially if it's on

short notice". We shouldn't be complaining that they're "catching up". I

say, are they doing the work? Great, that means more stuff I can use in

more situations. Any "catching up" being done is nothing but a benefit

to us, pure and simple. Here's one last example. Microsoft now has it so

you can use Narrator in safe mode. How awesome would it be if they had a

key you could hold down while Windows is booting, like the recovery keys

on a mac, that boots you into safe mode automatically? Right now I'm

pretty sure you still have to hit a key and pick from a menu, which

means sighted assistance, if you want to be sure you've got it right.

How cool would it be to hold down, I don't know, Windows-n on boot and

get safe mode with networking, and just waiting a bit and then launching

Narrator and geting speech? I don't know about anybody else, but it

sounds really nice to me, if I ever encounter a problem.

There, I think I'm done. Except to say, again, that we should be

praising companies who are trying to do right, even if we think it took

them long enough, instead of slamming them for that and inventing dumb

insulting names for them. If they're doing right, or trying to do right,

then that's what they're doing, and we should only encourage it. Sure,

if they mess up, tell them so, hopefully constructively. I'm not saying

we should only be nice and say only good things about the stuff

companies make. But by all the gods, have some perspective. Your names

are neither cute nor clever, and we're not twelve any more. I'm pretty

sure I'm like, 14 or something.

I consider this to be little short of bashing, microslop, mocrosoft?  This is a public list and insulting companies may offend or bother people who like products of a company. 

 

If more people did this on list, the level of the list would be degraded and it's nature would change from a helping and discussion list to a help, discussion, and product bashing list. 

 

If this practice spread, peoples feelings might be hurt.  I don't know who is on the list now, but in the past someone was on the list that helped develop accessibility for Open Office and someone who works on E-Speak was a member.  If you start this sort of thing and it spreads, it might have effects not considered by the original practitioner. 

 

And, as you saw from comments earlier from various people, the disparagement isn't necessarily accurate.  many people presented information about Microsoft that contradicted it. 

 

Would you like seeing your favorite program disparaged in this way even if the comments weren't directed toward you?

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Eleni Vamvakari

Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2018 1:07 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] Accessible voice and text chat

People need to stop being offended by everything, especially comments
not directed toward them.  Who cares whether someone uses a
disparaging name of a company?  It's not a personal insult or attack.

In any case, I am of the opinion that, if things work well, they
should be improved, not changed entirely.  I liked earlier versions of
Skype.  Then came 7, which was annoying in several ways (I cannot
think of them at the moment, as I haven't used the older versions of
Skype since they discontinued them).  Now, there is a completely new
interface.  I have tried it remotely on my friend's computer (with his
permission, of course) but we were in a call, so I didn't get the full
effect of going through contacts, making and answering a call, etc.
In some ways, it's quicker than 7, and things are immediately present,
instead of being in a list and under menus.  But some things seemed to
be missing.  I just don't see the need to needlessly complicate
things, and even if this works, I am still interested in alternatives
with a simpler and more traditional interface.

On 23/07/2018, Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@...> wrote:
> I don't see how it would either.
>
> Except dolphin maybe, their brouser access is well  not there only old
> versions of internet explorer work with their stuff.
>
> They say they are working on chrome but catch up they are doing,
> firefox, chrome, waterfox, most of those we allready have everywhere else.
>
>
>
>
> On 7/24/2018 8:54 AM, Lino Morales wrote:
>> Good point Tyler. And this goes back to the VFO brewhaha we had on here
>> last week. I don’t see how Narrator would disrupt open source screen
>> readers like NVDA as his Erickness stated in that podcast. As I always say
>> viva la NVDA!
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows
>> 10
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Tyler Wood
>> <tcwood12@...>
>> Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 4:49:46 PM
>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Accessible voice and text chat
>>
>> A few years ago I might have agreed with you on microsoft playing catch
>> up.
>>
>>
>> These days, as you say, Microsoft is everywhere. Seeing AI is simply a
>> revolutionary tool on the smartphone and is not made by apple.
>> Similarly, narrator is quickly becoming a replacement for your every day
>> screen reader. Keep in mind that the NFB went at apple pretty hard back
>> in the day, too, so it isn't as though their bringing more accessibility
>> into the market was voluntary. Microsoft has pretty decent accessibility
>> on the Xbox, as well, a far cry from Sony who, even though they released
>> so called accessibility first, are still missing crutial tts in areas
>> like the system settings 4 years later. Playing catch up, indeed.
>>
>> I'm curious where you think microsoft is lacking in accessibility these
>> days? Considering we have quite a few folks with disabilities working
>> for microsoft as well as apple, I think they're on a pretty level
>> playing field.
>>
>>
>> On 23-Jul-2018 3:40 PM, Antony Stone wrote:
>>> Microsoft may have a better record on accessibility than "many other
>>> companies", but depending on which other companies you compare them with,
>>> that
>>> may not be saying much.
>>>
>>> Also, given their overwhelming dominance in the desktop (laptop)
>>> computing
>>> market, I think they have not done as well as they should have done in
>>> terms
>>> of accessibility.
>>>
>>> I think Apple were late starters in the accessibility arena, but once
>>> they
>>> decided to go for it, they showed how it should be done, and Microsoft
>>> have
>>> simply played catch-up, in order to avoid total embarrassment (rather
>>> like
>>> they had to in the mid 90s when they suddenly realised that people had
>>> found
>>> out about the Internet, and if they didn't do something quick, they'd be
>>> left
>>> behind in the networked world).
>>>
>>>
>>> Antony.
>>>
>>> On Monday 23 July 2018 at 22:29:59, Gene wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm saying this not as a moderator, but as a list member.  I really
>>>> object
>>>> to you giving companies disparaging nicknames and I especially object
>>>> to
>>>> it when the company has a much better record on accessibility than many
>>>> other companies.
>>>>
>>>> Gene
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>
>>>> On 7/24/2018 4:13 AM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
>>>>> I never actually lost trust in MS. I knew that skype was in time going
>>>>> to be a good thing and  talk about html was in happening  even since
>>>>> about 2004 if I remember correctly. Skype has come a long way and we
>>>>> have to thank microslop for  it. They  made skype what it is today, a
>>>>> ver good tool for my jobs and more.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>


--
Facebook: elvam2167@...

anyaudio.net: elvam2167

Skype: elvam2167

I don't see how it would either.

Except dolphin maybe, their brouser access is well  not there only old
versions of internet explorer work with their stuff.

They say they are working on chrome but catch up they are doing,
firefox, chrome, waterfox, most of those we allready have everywhere else.




On 7/24/2018 8:54 AM, Lino Morales wrote:

Good point Tyler. And this goes back to the VFO brewhaha we had on here
last week. I don’t see how Narrator would disrupt open source screen
readers like NVDA as his Erickness stated in that podcast. As I always say
viva la NVDA!



Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>; for Windows
10



________________________________
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Tyler Wood
<tcwood12@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 4:49:46 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Accessible voice and text chat

A few years ago I might have agreed with you on microsoft playing catch
up.


These days, as you say, Microsoft is everywhere. Seeing AI is simply a
revolutionary tool on the smartphone and is not made by apple.
Similarly, narrator is quickly becoming a replacement for your every day
screen reader. Keep in mind that the NFB went at apple pretty hard back
in the day, too, so it isn't as though their bringing more accessibility
into the market was voluntary. Microsoft has pretty decent accessibility
on the Xbox, as well, a far cry from Sony who, even though they released
so called accessibility first, are still missing crutial tts in areas
like the system settings 4 years later. Playing catch up, indeed.

I'm curious where you think microsoft is lacking in accessibility these
days? Considering we have quite a few folks with disabilities working
for microsoft as well as apple, I think they're on a pretty level
playing field.


On 23-Jul-2018 3:40 PM, Antony Stone wrote:

Microsoft may have a better record on accessibility than "many other
companies", but depending on which other companies you compare them with,
that
may not be saying much.

Also, given their overwhelming dominance in the desktop (laptop)
computing
market, I think they have not done as well as they should have done in
terms
of accessibility.

I think Apple were late starters in the accessibility arena, but once
they
decided to go for it, they showed how it should be done, and Microsoft
have
simply played catch-up, in order to avoid total embarrassment (rather
like
they had to in the mid 90s when they suddenly realised that people had
found
out about the Internet, and if they didn't do something quick, they'd be
left
behind in the networked world).


Antony.

On Monday 23 July 2018 at 22:29:59, Gene wrote:

I'm saying this not as a moderator, but as a list member. I really
object
to you giving companies disparaging nicknames and I especially object
to
it when the company has a much better record on accessibility than many
other companies.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

On 7/24/2018 4:13 AM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

I never actually lost trust in MS. I knew that skype was in time going
to be a good thing and talk about html was in happening even since
about 2004 if I remember correctly. Skype has come a long way and we
have to thank microslop for it. They made skype what it is today, a
ver good tool for my jobs and more.

Hi,

I’m working on a friend’s computer with Windows 10.

The Office 2000 mail won’t work, and it won’t allow windows live mail to be installed.

I set up Microsoft’s Mail app that came with windows 10, and it looks like it will work well for him, but he is accustomed to finding his mail program on the desktop, but I can’t find a way to make a shortcut on the desktop.

If I knew for sure where the mail program resides, I can go there and make a shortcut, and copy it to the desktop, but when I find it in the task bar, there is no context menu option for send to, or copy, or create shortcut.

Any suggestions?

Thanks.

Glenn

 

Glenn Ervin  Orientation Counselor II

Norfolk Nebraska

402 370 3436

Cell: 402 992 0325

Welcome | NCBVI

 

When I’m doing web mail at home, on occasion,  I have noticed it telling me that some words are misspelled, but I don’t know how to get to any suggestions, I have to keep fixing it until it no longer tells me that it is misspelled.

I don’t know if that is coming from Chrome, or my ISP’s web interface.

Glenn

I do agree that it's good to check your spelling before sending a message but I don't expect it to be done. You can do a spell check in thunderbird and windows live mail. I'm not sure about web mail though.

Although I don’t expect it to happen by everyone on a list, I must add that I wish more folks would use a spellchecker on their eMail program.

If one has Office installed, then your eMail program will definitely be able to check your eMail messages when you send them.

If you don’t have Office installed, I think some eMail programs have a spellchecking function included, I haven’t come across them though.

I can excuse smart phones and tablets, as their spellchecking functions may be harder to use.

Although not required, on lists, it is just good practice in my opinion.

Glenn

Pardon me, but is this an NVDA list or a list to teach grammar skills? I didn't know we had an English professor on the list. You must be very bored to be correcting everybody's messages.

That's all I'll say.

1,301 bytes redundant trailer lines deleted.

Correct. There is not, but the answer has since been provided. So problem solved. This should of course be included in Skype’s info, but for one reason or another, it is not. Either way, the answer is once again, control plus shift plus P. I found this out by playing with the program and doing some test calls after my original query got back all sorts of outdated or irrelevant info. The ideal scenario would be that the information should be easily and readily accessible via Skype itself, but it is not. Therefore, it goes…

you are right, but there is not mention the hotkey to answer a call!
in addition, that is the problem.
cheers
Paul otter

hi all

below is a link, which Microsoft give short cuts for skype 8 for desktop

 

https://support.skype.com/en/faq/FA12025/what-are-hotkeys-and-how-do-i-use-them-in-skype

 

kerryn

Good point Tyler. And this goes back to the VFO brewhaha we had on here last week. I don’t see how Narrator would disrupt open source screen readers like NVDA as his Erickness stated in that podcast. As I always say viva la NVDA!



Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>; for Windows 10



________________________________
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Tyler Wood <tcwood12@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 4:49:46 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Accessible voice and text chat

A few years ago I might have agreed with you on microsoft playing catch up.


These days, as you say, Microsoft is everywhere. Seeing AI is simply a
revolutionary tool on the smartphone and is not made by apple.
Similarly, narrator is quickly becoming a replacement for your every day
screen reader. Keep in mind that the NFB went at apple pretty hard back
in the day, too, so it isn't as though their bringing more accessibility
into the market was voluntary. Microsoft has pretty decent accessibility
on the Xbox, as well, a far cry from Sony who, even though they released
so called accessibility first, are still missing crutial tts in areas
like the system settings 4 years later. Playing catch up, indeed.

I'm curious where you think microsoft is lacking in accessibility these
days? Considering we have quite a few folks with disabilities working
for microsoft as well as apple, I think they're on a pretty level
playing field.


On 23-Jul-2018 3:40 PM, Antony Stone wrote:

Microsoft may have a better record on accessibility than "many other
companies", but depending on which other companies you compare them with, that
may not be saying much.

Also, given their overwhelming dominance in the desktop (laptop) computing
market, I think they have not done as well as they should have done in terms
of accessibility.

I think Apple were late starters in the accessibility arena, but once they
decided to go for it, they showed how it should be done, and Microsoft have
simply played catch-up, in order to avoid total embarrassment (rather like
they had to in the mid 90s when they suddenly realised that people had found
out about the Internet, and if they didn't do something quick, they'd be left
behind in the networked world).


Antony.

On Monday 23 July 2018 at 22:29:59, Gene wrote:

I'm saying this not as a moderator, but as a list member. I really object
to you giving companies disparaging nicknames and I especially object to
it when the company has a much better record on accessibility than many
other companies.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

On 7/24/2018 4:13 AM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

I never actually lost trust in MS. I knew that skype was in time going
to be a good thing and talk about html was in happening even since
about 2004 if I remember correctly. Skype has come a long way and we
have to thank microslop for it. They made skype what it is today, a
ver good tool for my jobs and more.

Microsoft may have a better record on accessibility than "many other
companies", but depending on which other companies you compare them with, that
may not be saying much.

Also, given their overwhelming dominance in the desktop (laptop) computing
market, I think they have not done as well as they should have done in terms
of accessibility.

I think Apple were late starters in the accessibility arena, but once they
decided to go for it, they showed how it should be done, and Microsoft have
simply played catch-up, in order to avoid total embarrassment (rather like
they had to in the mid 90s when they suddenly realised that people had found
out about the Internet, and if they didn't do something quick, they'd be left
behind in the networked world).


Antony.

On Monday 23 July 2018 at 22:29:59, Gene wrote:

I'm saying this not as a moderator, but as a list member. I really object
to you giving companies disparaging nicknames and I especially object to
it when the company has a much better record on accessibility than many
other companies.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

On 7/24/2018 4:13 AM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

I never actually lost trust in MS. I knew that skype was in time going
to be a good thing and talk about html was in happening even since
about 2004 if I remember correctly. Skype has come a long way and we
have to thank microslop for it. They made skype what it is today, a
ver good tool for my jobs and more.