Date   

Re: OT discussions

E.T.
 

Now I remember why I unsubscribed from this group the last time. Too much traffic. Already almost 200 posts just since the start of the week. (smiles)

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
Ancient.Aliens@icloud.com
Science is not only compatible with spirituality;
it is a profound source of spirituality.| --Carl Sagan

On 7/24/2018 6:11 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
I think there are basically two issues. Out and out completely off topic messages, which rally once answered once should not attract further replies is they just repeat the same thing, and subject drift which are a little more difficult.
One of the most annoying though is when somebody announces  something like I need nvda with X voic4e as it surely is the only voice for a screenreader. This is as the old saying goes often a red rag to a bull (OK Bulls are colour blind, so sue me!), and OK its true for that individual but not a lots of others.
I think in this case a simple link to the page telling folk of all the synths is probably all that is needed.
Brian
bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian K. Lingard" <bkl@ncf.ca>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2018 1:25 PM
Subject: [nvda] OT discussions

Dear Gene & List:
Yes, some off topic discussion is desirable, guess my primary beef is
subjects that do not highly describe the topic of discussion in the message
bodies.

I trust I am not coming across as moderator, however was commenting on list
posting habits generally.
Brian





Re: Anybody on here testing the FF betas?

Lino Morales
 

Sweet Silvi. I’ll have to try beta 10 and see how it goes on my PC.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Sylvie Duchateau <sduchateau@...>
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2018 10:29:16 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Anybody on here testing the FF betas?
 

Hello,

I use Firefox 62 beta 10 with NVDA 2018.2 and it works fine. Now, I noticed that Firefox is as fast as Chrome again.

Best

Sylvie




Le 24/07/2018 à 16:24, Lino Morales a écrit :

What up Duck? Cool. How about the rest of you? I forget what beta we are in 62 currently. How is it working for you?

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Mallard <mallard@...>
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2018 9:57:00 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Anybody on here testing the FF betas?
 
Hello Lino,


I've just upgraded to Firefox 63.01 with Nightly, and it's quite fast.
On the other hand, I've never experienced any lags on Firefox at all.
I'm generally using the official version, 61.01, which works very
smoothly at this end.

hth, ciao,

Ollie





Il 23/07/2018 22:59, Lino Morales ha scritto:
>
> Hi. Is anyone on here testing the latest betas of Firefox with NVDA
> 2018.2 or later? Is it any faster? I’m still using Waterfox. Thanks.
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows 10
>
>






Re: How to edit a PDF file

Ervin, Glenn
 

About all you can do is to do OCR on the PDF and copy and paste that into a word processor, like Word, and clean it up.
Glenn

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Holger Fiallo
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2018 8:48 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to edit a PDF file

I want to change resume that I created.

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2018 8:07 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to edit a PDF file

The whole point of pdf is that they are a fixed format and cannot be changed, though of course some off er fields to be filled in. It is important for some copyright material that users cannot change the text for obviously reasons, indeed some are protected so well you can't read them with a screenreader, but thankfully not so much a problem now. More of a problem is the clueless who make picture pdfs where its just a picture of the text and these need to be run through an OCR to stand any chance of them being read at all.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Holger Fiallo" <hfiallo@rcn.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2018 6:35 AM
Subject: [nvda] How to edit a PDF file


Using Acrobat Reader DC, how to I edit a PDF file?

Holger Fiallo


Re: Info please

Nancy Shackelford
 

Once again, just for clarity, subscribe address for the new Jaws-users list:

jaws-users-list+subscribe@ groups.io

Nance

On Tue, Jul 24, 2018 at 9:10 AM, Lino Morales <linomorales001@...> wrote:

Holger. They’ve moved to groups.io. I don’t know the proper subscription INFO. Sorry.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Holger Fiallo <hfiallo@...>
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2018 12:39:19 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Info please
 
Hope someone who also belongs to jaws group list can help me. I know this is not a jaws web but I am not able to send email to
jaws-users-list@...
Is there a problem?
Holger Fiallo




--
Nancy Shackelford --Walk On Faith And Trust In Love - Michael Reid--


Re: OT discussions

Ervin, Glenn
 

I see how subjects go astray throughout a conversation, but what bugs me most is when someone starts a thread with a subject that tells nothing of the question.

Like

Help please

That does nothing if a good answer comes later in response, and we save the helpful message for later reference, because I for one save many useful messages and use my eMail’s search feature to find an old message that was useful information.

And with an irrelevant subject like that, I cannot find it later.

 

Glenn

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian K. Lingard
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2018 7:25 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] OT discussions

 

Dear Gene & List:

Yes, some off topic discussion is desirable, guess my primary beef is subjects that do not highly describe the topic of discussion in the message bodies.

 

I trust I am not coming across as moderator, however was commenting on list posting habits generally.

Brian

 


Re: skype 8 for desktop

Ervin, Glenn
 

I’m guilty of not trimming off older parts of a conversation, I certainly will try to pay more attention to this.

I did not ever consider data usage.

 

Glenn

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian K. Lingard
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2018 7:16 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [NVDA] skype 8 for desktop

 

Yes, Gene Asner is moderator, however I am not trying to moderate, just observing as to how people post. The rules for most lists say to minimize quoting to maintain continuity of discussion or sum up prior messages in a sentence or two. Alas, few list owners try to persuade their list members to do these things. Since not everyone is an English scholar, we have grammar & spell checkers to help us look like we are better communicators. Sorry to offend, my observations were and are not directed to you personally, just commenting on list traffic in general.

Brian

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 12:34 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [NVDA] skype 8 for desktop

 

Excuse me but Gene Asner is the moderator--not you.

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian K. Lingard
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 1:39 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [NVDA] skype 8 for desktop

 

This message train does discuss Skype 8 for desktop, however has nothing to do with NVDA, this list's topic.

Perhaps should migrate to Skype English?

Please, Use grammar & spell checkers for optimal writing perfection. In addition, proofread.

1,200 bytes of redundant list trailers deleted.

Brian

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bobby Vinton
Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2018 10:14 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [NVDA] skype 8 for desktop

 

Hay I was also wondering how to exit or quit skype from the system tray?

 

On 7/22/2018 8:58 PM, P. Otter wrote:

you are right, but there is not mention the hotkey to answer a call!
in addition, that is the problem.
cheers
Paul otter

Op 23-7-2018 om 01:14 schreef Kerryn Gunness via Groups.Io:

hi all

below is a link, which Microsoft give short cuts for skype 8 for desktop

 

 

kerryn

 


Re: Using different social media platforms/websites with NVDA

Jonathan COHN
 

OK, different tack here. 

Both twitter and Facebook have single key shortcuts of their own for navigation.  Also, for Facebook, each grouping of a post and its replies is in an article region. I am not sure if NVDA "d" key will skip to the next article or if it just uses more encompassing HTNL regions. 

So if you are in NVDA focus mode:
j will move to next posting 
k will move to previous posting
l will like a posting 
? will give a full list of shortcuts I will include twitters list below.


BTW J/K/?  also work in Gmail . 



t in a twitter web page will retweet with an option to add your own text. 
WindowEyes once had a training session on these keystrokes I wonder if VFO kept any of that training around.

HTH. 

Jonathan Cohn 


Re: Anybody on here testing the FF betas?

Sylvie Duchateau
 

Hello,

I use Firefox 62 beta 10 with NVDA 2018.2 and it works fine. Now, I noticed that Firefox is as fast as Chrome again.

Best

Sylvie




Le 24/07/2018 à 16:24, Lino Morales a écrit :

What up Duck? Cool. How about the rest of you? I forget what beta we are in 62 currently. How is it working for you?

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Mallard <mallard@...>
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2018 9:57:00 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Anybody on here testing the FF betas?
 
Hello Lino,


I've just upgraded to Firefox 63.01 with Nightly, and it's quite fast.
On the other hand, I've never experienced any lags on Firefox at all.
I'm generally using the official version, 61.01, which works very
smoothly at this end.

hth, ciao,

Ollie





Il 23/07/2018 22:59, Lino Morales ha scritto:
>
> Hi. Is anyone on here testing the latest betas of Firefox with NVDA
> 2018.2 or later? Is it any faster? I’m still using Waterfox. Thanks.
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows 10
>
>






Re: Anybody on here testing the FF betas?

Lino Morales
 

What up Duck? Cool. How about the rest of you? I forget what beta we are in 62 currently. How is it working for you?

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Mallard <mallard@...>
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2018 9:57:00 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Anybody on here testing the FF betas?
 
Hello Lino,


I've just upgraded to Firefox 63.01 with Nightly, and it's quite fast.
On the other hand, I've never experienced any lags on Firefox at all.
I'm generally using the official version, 61.01, which works very
smoothly at this end.

hth, ciao,

Ollie





Il 23/07/2018 22:59, Lino Morales ha scritto:
>
> Hi. Is anyone on here testing the latest betas of Firefox with NVDA
> 2018.2 or later? Is it any faster? I’m still using Waterfox. Thanks.
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows 10
>
>





Re: Windows Mail

Ervin, Glenn
 

Thanks Gene, I’ll try it tonight when I get back to the office.

Glenn

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene New Zealand
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 10:10 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows Mail

 

Hi Glenn

 

Try the following

 

Press the windows key + letter R this will bring up the run dialogue then type in the following

 

shell:appsfolder

 

then press the enter key.

 

A list of programs will come up jump down to the letter M programs by pressing the letter M  You might have to arrow right to get to the mail one if not in the list. You can use the arrow keys to do this it might be below or to the right.

 

After you have located the mail one use the applications key  then arrow down to create a shortcut then press the enter key.

 

It will say not here do you want it on the desk top just say yes to it and it will be there.

 

Gene nz

 

 

On 7/24/2018 11:04 AM, Ervin, Glenn wrote:

Hi,

I’m working on a friend’s computer with Windows 10.

The Office 2000 mail won’t work, and it won’t allow windows live mail to be installed.

I set up Microsoft’s Mail app that came with windows 10, and it looks like it will work well for him, but he is accustomed to finding his mail program on the desktop, but I can’t find a way to make a shortcut on the desktop.

If I knew for sure where the mail program resides, I can go there and make a shortcut, and copy it to the desktop, but when I find it in the task bar, there is no context menu option for send to, or copy, or create shortcut.

Any suggestions?

Thanks.

Glenn

 

Glenn Ervin  Orientation Counselor II

Norfolk Nebraska

402 370 3436

Cell: 402 992 0325

Welcome | NCBVI

 

 


Re: Accessible voice and text chat

Lino Morales
 

Yo Elany. Contact me off list at:

Lino.jr@...

I have my own TeamTalk server if you want to hang. That goes for the rest of you on this list cluster who are on here.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Eleni Vamvakari <elvam2167@...>
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2018 5:10:37 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Accessible voice and text chat
 
Thank you, Tyler, both for your agreement and for your suggestions.
While I don't deliberately insult people for no reason, I am against
political correctness in general.  If people wrote bad things about a
program that I liked, I would simply ignore it.  I'm not its writer,
but if I were, I would ask what they didn't like about it so that we
could discuss it in a civil manner.

I will try Team Talk again.  I don't mind if it's used widely in the
mainstream.  I need it to contact my Greek teacher for lessons and my
best friend so that we can voice chat.  If others wish to join me, of
course, they can do so, though of course, it's different from a
dedicated program like Skype, where you have friends that you can add,
etc.  But maybe, some members of various Facebook groups might be
interested in meeting there! *smile*

On 24/07/2018, Tyler Wood <tcwood12@...> wrote:
> I have to agree with Eleni here.
>
>
> 2018 seems to be the year to be overly offended by everything. Instead
> of talking about the original subject we're now suddenly talking about a
> name for a company. Really, who cares. People shouldn't need their hand
> held at every turn on a mailing list.
>
>
> Regardless, Eleni, good luck in finding alternatives that work as nice
> as skype. Team talk is nice, yes, but not many folks in the mainstream
> use it. Team speak has its own set of frustrating issues - one of which
> is accessing context menus with NVDA without restarting it. Discord is
> slowly, oh so slowly, improving. Google hangouts is...kind of? okay, but
> I forget what I didn't like about it as it has been a while, so perhaps
> things have changed.
>
>
> Sorry I couldn't be more help
>
>
>
> On 24-Jul-2018 1:42 AM, Gene wrote:
>> I consider this to be little short of bashing, microslop, mocrosoft?
>> This is a public list and insulting companies may offend or bother
>> people who like products of a company.
>> If more people did this on list, the level of the list would be
>> degraded and it's nature would change from a helping and discussion
>> list to a help, discussion, and product bashing list.
>> If this practice spread, peoples feelings might be hurt.  I don't know
>> who is on the list now, but in the past someone was on the list that
>> helped develop accessibility for Open Office and someone who works on
>> E-Speak was a member.  If you start this sort of thing and it spreads,
>> it might have effects not considered by the original practitioner.
>> And, as you saw from comments earlier from various people, the
>> disparagement isn't necessarily accurate.  many people presented
>> information about Microsoft that contradicted it.
>> Would you like seeing your favorite program disparaged in this way
>> even if the comments weren't directed toward you?
>> Gene
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> *From:* Eleni Vamvakari <mailto:elvam2167@...>
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 24, 2018 1:07 AM
>> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>> *Subject:* Re: [nvda] Accessible voice and text chat
>>
>> People need to stop being offended by everything, especially comments
>> not directed toward them.  Who cares whether someone uses a
>> disparaging name of a company?  It's not a personal insult or attack.
>>
>> In any case, I am of the opinion that, if things work well, they
>> should be improved, not changed entirely.  I liked earlier versions of
>> Skype.  Then came 7, which was annoying in several ways (I cannot
>> think of them at the moment, as I haven't used the older versions of
>> Skype since they discontinued them).  Now, there is a completely new
>> interface.  I have tried it remotely on my friend's computer (with his
>> permission, of course) but we were in a call, so I didn't get the full
>> effect of going through contacts, making and answering a call, etc.
>> In some ways, it's quicker than 7, and things are immediately present,
>> instead of being in a list and under menus.  But some things seemed to
>> be missing.  I just don't see the need to needlessly complicate
>> things, and even if this works, I am still interested in alternatives
>> with a simpler and more traditional interface.
>>
>> On 23/07/2018, Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@...
>> <mailto:sm.everiss@...>> wrote:
>> > I don't see how it would either.
>> >
>> > Except dolphin maybe, their brouser access is well  not there only old
>> > versions of internet explorer work with their stuff.
>> >
>> > They say they are working on chrome but catch up they are doing,
>> > firefox, chrome, waterfox, most of those we allready have everywhere
>> else.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On 7/24/2018 8:54 AM, Lino Morales wrote:
>> >> Good point Tyler. And this goes back to the VFO brewhaha we had on
>> >> here
>> >> last week. I don’t see how Narrator would disrupt open source screen
>> >> readers like NVDA as his Erickness stated in that podcast. As I
>> always say
>> >> viva la NVDA!
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>> Windows
>> >> 10
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ________________________________
>> >> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>> <nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>> on behalf of Tyler
>> Wood
>> >> <tcwood12@... <mailto:tcwood12@...>>
>> >> Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 4:49:46 PM
>> >> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>> >> Subject: Re: [nvda] Accessible voice and text chat
>> >>
>> >> A few years ago I might have agreed with you on microsoft playing
>> >> catch
>> >> up.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> These days, as you say, Microsoft is everywhere. Seeing AI is simply a
>> >> revolutionary tool on the smartphone and is not made by apple.
>> >> Similarly, narrator is quickly becoming a replacement for your
>> every day
>> >> screen reader. Keep in mind that the NFB went at apple pretty hard
>> >> back
>> >> in the day, too, so it isn't as though their bringing more
>> accessibility
>> >> into the market was voluntary. Microsoft has pretty decent
>> accessibility
>> >> on the Xbox, as well, a far cry from Sony who, even though they
>> released
>> >> so called accessibility first, are still missing crutial tts in areas
>> >> like the system settings 4 years later. Playing catch up, indeed.
>> >>
>> >> I'm curious where you think microsoft is lacking in accessibility
>> >> these
>> >> days? Considering we have quite a few folks with disabilities working
>> >> for microsoft as well as apple, I think they're on a pretty level
>> >> playing field.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 23-Jul-2018 3:40 PM, Antony Stone wrote:
>> >>> Microsoft may have a better record on accessibility than "many other
>> >>> companies", but depending on which other companies you compare
>> them with,
>> >>> that
>> >>> may not be saying much.
>> >>>
>> >>> Also, given their overwhelming dominance in the desktop (laptop)
>> >>> computing
>> >>> market, I think they have not done as well as they should have done
>> >>> in
>> >>> terms
>> >>> of accessibility.
>> >>>
>> >>> I think Apple were late starters in the accessibility arena, but once
>> >>> they
>> >>> decided to go for it, they showed how it should be done, and
>> >>> Microsoft
>> >>> have
>> >>> simply played catch-up, in order to avoid total embarrassment (rather
>> >>> like
>> >>> they had to in the mid 90s when they suddenly realised that people
>> >>> had
>> >>> found
>> >>> out about the Internet, and if they didn't do something quick,
>> they'd be
>> >>> left
>> >>> behind in the networked world).
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Antony.
>> >>>
>> >>> On Monday 23 July 2018 at 22:29:59, Gene wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> I'm saying this not as a moderator, but as a list member.  I really
>> >>>> object
>> >>>> to you giving companies disparaging nicknames and I especially
>> >>>> object
>> >>>> to
>> >>>> it when the company has a much better record on accessibility
>> than many
>> >>>> other companies.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Gene
>> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On 7/24/2018 4:13 AM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
>> >>>>> I never actually lost trust in MS. I knew that skype was in time
>> going
>> >>>>> to be a good thing and  talk about html was in happening  even
>> >>>>> since
>> >>>>> about 2004 if I remember correctly. Skype has come a long way and
>> >>>>> we
>> >>>>> have to thank microslop for  it. They  made skype what it is
>> today, a
>> >>>>> ver good tool for my jobs and more.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> Facebook: elvam2167@... <mailto:elvam2167@...>
>>
>> anyaudio.net: elvam2167
>>
>> Skype: elvam2167
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>


--
Facebook: elvam2167@...

anyaudio.net: elvam2167

Skype: elvam2167




Re: Accessible voice and text chat

Lino Morales
 

Que pasa Tyler. Can you email me off list at:

Lino.jr@...

I’d like to know more about Discord. Seems to be all the rage among feller blinkies lately. Thanks. Or send me a follow if you wish to @lino_and_rico

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Tyler Wood <tcwood12@...>
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2018 2:49:44 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Accessible voice and text chat
 

I have to agree with Eleni here.


2018 seems to be the year to be overly offended by everything. Instead of talking about the original subject we're now suddenly talking about a name for a company. Really, who cares. People shouldn't need their hand held at every turn on a mailing list.


Regardless, Eleni, good luck in finding alternatives that work as nice as skype. Team talk is nice, yes, but not many folks in the mainstream use it. Team speak has its own set of frustrating issues - one of which is accessing context menus with NVDA without restarting it. Discord is slowly, oh so slowly, improving. Google hangouts is...kind of? okay, but I forget what I didn't like about it as it has been a while, so perhaps things have changed.


Sorry I couldn't be more help



On 24-Jul-2018 1:42 AM, Gene wrote:
I consider this to be little short of bashing, microslop, mocrosoft?  This is a public list and insulting companies may offend or bother people who like products of a company. 
 
If more people did this on list, the level of the list would be degraded and it's nature would change from a helping and discussion list to a help, discussion, and product bashing list. 
 
If this practice spread, peoples feelings might be hurt.  I don't know who is on the list now, but in the past someone was on the list that helped develop accessibility for Open Office and someone who works on E-Speak was a member.  If you start this sort of thing and it spreads, it might have effects not considered by the original practitioner. 
 
And, as you saw from comments earlier from various people, the disparagement isn't necessarily accurate.  many people presented information about Microsoft that contradicted it. 
 
Would you like seeing your favorite program disparaged in this way even if the comments weren't directed toward you?
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2018 1:07 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Accessible voice and text chat

People need to stop being offended by everything, especially comments
not directed toward them.  Who cares whether someone uses a
disparaging name of a company?  It's not a personal insult or attack.

In any case, I am of the opinion that, if things work well, they
should be improved, not changed entirely.  I liked earlier versions of
Skype.  Then came 7, which was annoying in several ways (I cannot
think of them at the moment, as I haven't used the older versions of
Skype since they discontinued them).  Now, there is a completely new
interface.  I have tried it remotely on my friend's computer (with his
permission, of course) but we were in a call, so I didn't get the full
effect of going through contacts, making and answering a call, etc.
In some ways, it's quicker than 7, and things are immediately present,
instead of being in a list and under menus.  But some things seemed to
be missing.  I just don't see the need to needlessly complicate
things, and even if this works, I am still interested in alternatives
with a simpler and more traditional interface.

On 23/07/2018, Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@...> wrote:
> I don't see how it would either.
>
> Except dolphin maybe, their brouser access is well  not there only old
> versions of internet explorer work with their stuff.
>
> They say they are working on chrome but catch up they are doing,
> firefox, chrome, waterfox, most of those we allready have everywhere else.
>
>
>
>
> On 7/24/2018 8:54 AM, Lino Morales wrote:
>> Good point Tyler. And this goes back to the VFO brewhaha we had on here
>> last week. I don’t see how Narrator would disrupt open source screen
>> readers like NVDA as his Erickness stated in that podcast. As I always say
>> viva la NVDA!
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows
>> 10
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Tyler Wood
>> <tcwood12@...>
>> Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 4:49:46 PM
>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Accessible voice and text chat
>>
>> A few years ago I might have agreed with you on microsoft playing catch
>> up.
>>
>>
>> These days, as you say, Microsoft is everywhere. Seeing AI is simply a
>> revolutionary tool on the smartphone and is not made by apple.
>> Similarly, narrator is quickly becoming a replacement for your every day
>> screen reader. Keep in mind that the NFB went at apple pretty hard back
>> in the day, too, so it isn't as though their bringing more accessibility
>> into the market was voluntary. Microsoft has pretty decent accessibility
>> on the Xbox, as well, a far cry from Sony who, even though they released
>> so called accessibility first, are still missing crutial tts in areas
>> like the system settings 4 years later. Playing catch up, indeed.
>>
>> I'm curious where you think microsoft is lacking in accessibility these
>> days? Considering we have quite a few folks with disabilities working
>> for microsoft as well as apple, I think they're on a pretty level
>> playing field.
>>
>>
>> On 23-Jul-2018 3:40 PM, Antony Stone wrote:
>>> Microsoft may have a better record on accessibility than "many other
>>> companies", but depending on which other companies you compare them with,
>>> that
>>> may not be saying much.
>>>
>>> Also, given their overwhelming dominance in the desktop (laptop)
>>> computing
>>> market, I think they have not done as well as they should have done in
>>> terms
>>> of accessibility.
>>>
>>> I think Apple were late starters in the accessibility arena, but once
>>> they
>>> decided to go for it, they showed how it should be done, and Microsoft
>>> have
>>> simply played catch-up, in order to avoid total embarrassment (rather
>>> like
>>> they had to in the mid 90s when they suddenly realised that people had
>>> found
>>> out about the Internet, and if they didn't do something quick, they'd be
>>> left
>>> behind in the networked world).
>>>
>>>
>>> Antony.
>>>
>>> On Monday 23 July 2018 at 22:29:59, Gene wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm saying this not as a moderator, but as a list member.  I really
>>>> object
>>>> to you giving companies disparaging nicknames and I especially object
>>>> to
>>>> it when the company has a much better record on accessibility than many
>>>> other companies.
>>>>
>>>> Gene
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>
>>>> On 7/24/2018 4:13 AM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
>>>>> I never actually lost trust in MS. I knew that skype was in time going
>>>>> to be a good thing and  talk about html was in happening  even since
>>>>> about 2004 if I remember correctly. Skype has come a long way and we
>>>>> have to thank microslop for  it. They  made skype what it is today, a
>>>>> ver good tool for my jobs and more.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>


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Re: Info please

Lino Morales
 

Holger. They’ve moved to groups.io. I don’t know the proper subscription INFO. Sorry.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Holger Fiallo <hfiallo@...>
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2018 12:39:19 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Info please
 
Hope someone who also belongs to jaws group list can help me. I know this is not a jaws web but I am not able to send email to
jaws-users-list@...
Is there a problem?
Holger Fiallo


Re: How to edit a PDF file

Jonathan COHN
 

The best thing to do is open the file you used to create the PDF and work off of that. 

If that is not a possibility, then investigate if robo Braille can help you:
http://robobraille.org


Re: How to edit a PDF file

Rui Fontes
 

You must edit it on Adobe PDF, the full version and not the Reader version, or in Microsoft Word 2016.

Rui Fontes


Às 14:48 de 24/07/2018, Holger Fiallo escreveu:

I want to change resume that I created.
-----Original Message----- From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2018 8:07 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to edit a PDF file
The whole point of pdf is that they are a fixed format and cannot be
changed, though of course some off er fields to be filled in. It is
important for some copyright material that users cannot change the text for
obviously reasons, indeed some are protected so well you can't read them
with a screenreader, but thankfully not so much a problem now. More of a
problem is the  clueless who make picture pdfs where its just a picture of
the text and these need to be run through an OCR to stand any chance of them
being read at all.
Brian
bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Holger Fiallo" <hfiallo@rcn.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2018 6:35 AM
Subject: [nvda] How to edit a PDF file
Using Acrobat Reader DC, how to I edit a PDF file?
Holger Fiallo


Re: Anybody on here testing the FF betas?

Mallard
 

Hello Lino,


I've just upgraded to Firefox 63.01 with Nightly, and it's quite fast. On the other hand, I've never experienced any lags on Firefox at all. I'm generally using the official version, 61.01, which works very smoothly at this end.

hth, ciao,

Ollie

Il 23/07/2018 22:59, Lino Morales ha scritto:

Hi. Is anyone on here testing the latest betas of Firefox with NVDA 2018.2 or later? Is it any faster? I’m still using Waterfox. Thanks.

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10


Re: How to edit a PDF file

Holger Fiallo <hfiallo@...>
 

I want to change resume that I created.

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2018 8:07 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to edit a PDF file

The whole point of pdf is that they are a fixed format and cannot be
changed, though of course some off er fields to be filled in. It is
important for some copyright material that users cannot change the text for
obviously reasons, indeed some are protected so well you can't read them
with a screenreader, but thankfully not so much a problem now. More of a
problem is the clueless who make picture pdfs where its just a picture of
the text and these need to be run through an OCR to stand any chance of them
being read at all.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Holger Fiallo" <hfiallo@rcn.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2018 6:35 AM
Subject: [nvda] How to edit a PDF file


Using Acrobat Reader DC, how to I edit a PDF file?

Holger Fiallo


Re: My thoughts on offensive company names and so on.

Gene
 

This has nothing to do with what I agree is a general hypersensativity to being offended.  This is a specific case where it is understandable and reasonable for people to be offended.  People often like programs they use.  They may respect the design or particularly like certain features and so forth.  They may think a company does a good or reasonable job regarding accessibility.  They may simply dislike or resent disparaging remarks that are inaccurate or highly questionable regarding programs or companies for such reasons. 
 
For example, I like Eloquence.  I consider it the best all around synthesizer available at this time for the way a lot of blind people use synthesizers. It is responsive, doesn't use a lot of computer resources, and pronounces an impressive number of words correctly.  If someone doesn't like Eloquence and tghey express their dislike in a reasonable way, presenting reasons, facts and opinions, that's one thing.  Giving a product a disparaging and not only that, a factually inaccurate name is something else again.  It is a fact, not an opinion, that Eloquence doesn't crash more than a well designed program.  It may cause those who don't know much or anything about the synthesizer to wonder if there is something wrong with it.  If I were just talking with someone and they used the name Elocrash in conversation, I would be annoyed and discuss or debate the point, but I consider it highly inappropriate to spread factually incorrect information on a public list in this way.  There are users at a wide variety of knowledge on the list.  And these names, are a way of spreading negative and inaccurate information. 
 
It is simply not reasonable nor correct to minimize this issue by the everyone is too easily offended these days argument. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----

Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2018 4:03 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] My thoughts on offensive company names and so on.

From a grammatical perspective, I agree with you, John.  I'm not one
to create silly names and such.  I just explain my problems or ask my
questions in a clear manner, as I am not usually one for sarcasm or
satire.  But I do think that, in general, people become offended far
too easily today.

I agree that certain universal keystrokes make sense.  This is why I
like the standard menu interface in Windows, and why Firefox and Skype
annoyed me with their menu, tab, and list category combinations.  It
didn't seem like a traditional menu structure to me, if that makes
sense.

Even though I have been using NVDA for many years, I never really
understood object navigation.  It is quite different, in my mind at
least, from the cursors in JFW and the various modes in Vocal-Eyes.  I
used a Mac in the days of Leopard and Snow Leopard, and the
interacting, along with a few other issues, most noteably the lack of
good support for Greek, are what made me return to Windows.  Even now,
espeak is the only synthesizer that I know of which fully supports
polytonic Greek.  At any rate, I hated having to interact with things
all of the time.

I have talking system recovery disks, so I doubt I would ever need
safe mode.  But I would love to be able to boot into the bios!

On 24/07/2018, David Moore <jesusloves1966@...> wrote:
> Here is my wisdom!
> If you have nothing good to say, say nothing, that would be so much better!
> If you have a problem with someone, say it to their face, quit being evasive
> with members on the list, who can do nothing about your gripe. Talk to MS
> yourself!
> David Moore
>
>
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>
> From: John Isige
> Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2018 3:35 AM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: [nvda] My thoughts on offensive company names and so on.
>
> Well for me, I don't care about the offensiveness so much. What I care
> about is stuff like:
>
> Last night I was using elocrash with Skum from Microslop and I tried
> with the shark and Microslop Notreader and NVDA and nothing was
> working"! I'm sorry, l33t (look it up if you don't know/remember) wasn't
> cool back in the 80s when it got started, and this stuff that's
> essentially an equivalent of it isn't cool either. I know, just like the
> l33t k1dz whu t0t3z roxxorz! you think you're terribly terribly clever,
> but just as they weren't, really, you're not.
>
> That's my problem, having to parse whatever dumb gibberish people think
> is clever this week because all they can do is puns, the lowest form of
> humor, on company names that really don't work anyway, instead of coming
> up with something that's actually witty and meaningful. You see what I
> did there? I actually wrote real words that everybody can understand and
> stuff instead of going "shut up, John Isicky"! It also seems really odd
> to insult a company you just got done saying did something right, but
> maybe that's just that irony all you young people are supposed to be
> into nowadays, and I'm just too old to get it. Besides, you will never
> beat the pun on HP-UX, which is both obvious and funny, so really,
> there's no point to it all anyway. I'll leave the working out of that
> pun as an exercise for the reader.
>
> Don't get me wrong, I agree with the offensive part too. While I realize
> companies, e.g. Microsoft, have a history to live down, a lot of that
> was quite a while ago. Plus, how are they ever going to live it down or
> get better if we're not giving them a chance, semi-praising them on the
> one hand and insulting them on the other? You think that will make them
> want to keep putting in the work for accessibility? Also, what in the
> world is up with this "they're playing catch-up" stuff? Ooooo, Apple did
> accessibility right, they showed everybody how it's done! OK, and then
> you're upset that somebody's copying that? I mean, if Apple's so super
> special awesome and all, shouldn't we want everybody and their fifth
> cousin to copy them, such that we have proper accessibility on every
> conceivable platform? Why are you complaining that other companies are
> doing something like that? That should be, as I believe I've said when
> it was mentioned that keyboard commands were being changed to be more
> like other screen readers, exactly what we want. For example, my wife
> bought a used mac for us. I read this article:
>
> https://www.applevis.com/blog/apple-mac-os-x/debunking-common-myths-about-voiceover-mac
>
> Looking at the web section, I see we've got commands to jump by headings
> and all, and it seems pretty similar to other screen readers. Great!
> That's less time wasted in trying to figure out how to do simple things,
> and more time using the mac. Obviously I want to get more familiar with
> the mac way of doing things and not just do what I'm doing on Windows,
> because maybe mac does something better. But that will happen over time.
> If I want to sit down and start checking something out to see what it's
> like, the more barriers in my way like "learn an entirely different set
> of commands and things just to navigate a web page", the less likely I
> am to want to use that thing.
>
> I'm not suggesting that every screen reader should work exactly like
> every other screen reader. I'm saying that there should be a base set of
> things that are pretty similar, e.g. I can do a lot of the same basic
> stuff to get around in Android that I can do to get around in iOS. Sure,
> if I really want to use either one, I'm going to have to learn their
> specifics, but in general, I can pick up either kind of device with a
> screen reader active and start using it to do stuff, no problem. You can
> see this with NVDA too. What's the thing most people get hung up on?
>
> That's right, object navigation. I use it a lot more now, particularly
> if something isn't reading what I think it should, but it was confusing
> for a bit until I got Joseph's tutorial. But you know what? Part of that
> was because it was different from other screen readers I'd used, but
> part of it was that I didn't have to worry about using it for a long
> time, because NVDA does what I'm talking about. If you've used NVDA and
> JFW, as I assume most people here have, you know there's a lot of stuff
> that's similar between them in how you access Windows, e.g. using the
> arrow keys and such.
>
> But maybe you actually find object navigation better than the jaws
> cursor. I'll give you an example, on the mac if you're reading a table,
> you interact with it. Then you read it like you read any other thing. So
> there's only, potentially, one extra command to remember, you have to
> interact first. I don't have to try and learn a whole new set of table
> navigation keystrokes. I used that example because it's fresh in my mind
> and I honestly don't remember enough about how JFW did things to say
> what's better or worse between it and NVDA.
>
> Anyway the point to this rambling is that we shouldn't be implying that
> other companies are substandard or whatever, because they've got feature
> Y that looks a lot like feature X from Company Z's screen reader Lava
> Talk, the screen reader that spits fire! We should be going "awesome,
> they realized what works already, that's gonna save me a lot of time if
> I ever have to learn or use that screen reader, especially if it's on
> short notice". We shouldn't be complaining that they're "catching up". I
> say, are they doing the work? Great, that means more stuff I can use in
> more situations. Any "catching up" being done is nothing but a benefit
> to us, pure and simple. Here's one last example. Microsoft now has it so
> you can use Narrator in safe mode. How awesome would it be if they had a
> key you could hold down while Windows is booting, like the recovery keys
> on a mac, that boots you into safe mode automatically? Right now I'm
> pretty sure you still have to hit a key and pick from a menu, which
> means sighted assistance, if you want to be sure you've got it right.
> How cool would it be to hold down, I don't know, Windows-n on boot and
> get safe mode with networking, and just waiting a bit and then launching
> Narrator and geting speech? I don't know about anybody else, but it
> sounds really nice to me, if I ever encounter a problem.
>
> There, I think I'm done. Except to say, again, that we should be
> praising companies who are trying to do right, even if we think it took
> them long enough, instead of slamming them for that and inventing dumb
> insulting names for them. If they're doing right, or trying to do right,
> then that's what they're doing, and we should only encourage it. Sure,
> if they mess up, tell them so, hopefully constructively. I'm not saying
> we should only be nice and say only good things about the stuff
> companies make. But by all the gods, have some perspective. Your names
> are neither cute nor clever, and we're not twelve any more. I'm pretty
> sure I'm like, 14 or something.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


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Re: skype 8 for desktop

 

Why does everybody have to have an opinion on everything? It doesn't make you look smarter, you know? Anyway, since the Microsoft list is incomplete where can I get a full list of keyboard commands for Skype 8 with NVDA?


Re: Using different social media platforms/websites with NVDA

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Yes its the same for all social media. What is really needed though in my view all over the web is some kind of accessible ad filter. IE if the ad is just going to muck up the accessibility of a site it should be banished to the bin and sooner or later such adverts will stop being made, hopefully. I do not think nvda should or could develop simply to read ofddball adverts inserted by third party servers at the whim of a bot.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian K. Lingard" <bkl@ncf.ca>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2018 1:41 PM
Subject: Re: [NVDA] Using different social media platforms/websites with NVDA


Dear Shaun & List:
Your ideal Skype client for blind users would be wonderful, however not permitting adverts prevents blind Skypes from seeing the activity that helps pay for Skype.
Brian

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Shaun Everiss
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 5:15 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [NVDA] Using different social media platforms/websites with
NVDA

Its a pity MS killed skype kit.

What the blind need now is a client that uses the latest protocols for skype, it
should support, skype including MS accounts, Facebook accounts, no home
page, no adds, the standard message and contacts tab and the phone stuff
and nothing else.

Well groups, and video should we use it but that is it.




On 7/24/2018 7:13 AM, Cristóbal wrote:
This is where a third party client comes in handy. Who knows how it’ll all
shake out after Twitter’s new rules take place next month, but for now, and
for Twitter at least, the cleanest option is a third party client.





From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of
Sociohack
AC
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 12:05 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [NVDA] Using different social media platforms/websites with
NVDA



I find navigating social media websites very tiring. Is there an efficient way
to access websites like Facebook and twitter?
at present, there is no way I could just give a casual navigation to these
websites. it is because of their highly interactive content, navigating them is
very tiring. you are forced to hear all sorts of unnecessary information. for
example, you do not wish to hear the day and the time and other minor
options in twitter while navigating from tweet to tweet in twitter.