Date   

Re: Fine-Grained Control Over the Group Messages You Receive from Groups.io

 

On Tue, Jul 24, 2018 at 02:26 PM, Cristóbal wrote:
The mute feature gets a heavy workout from me.
I'm actually surprised that more people don't use the "Following Only" feature in conjunction with the "First Message Also" and "Auto-Follow Replies" options.

"Following Only" with "First Message Only" lets you see the introduction of each and every topic.  If you don't hit the follow link the topic will effectively be automatically muted unless you have "Auto-Follow Replies" on and actually reply to it instead.

It's the ultimate in strict control about what topics can continue to be "welcome visitors" in your inbox.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    A little kindness from person to person is better than a vast love for all humankind.

           ~ Richard Dehmel

 

 


Re: Fine-Grained Control Over the Group Messages You Receive from Groups.io

Sarah k Alawami
 

I also use mute or I mute in mail mate. That will auto mute and i never have to see the messages again. It’s grate.

Take care all.

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website: http://www.tffppodcast.com
For stuff we sell, mac training materials and  tutorials go to http://www.tffppodcast.com/premium
and for hosting options go to http://www.tffppodcast.com/hosting
to subscribe to the feed click here:
http://feeds.feedburner.com/tffp
And for the listen page go here: 
http://www.tffppodcast.com/listen

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here:
http://www.tffppodcast.com/pod-pledge
For an android list in the making where android apps, accessibility, phones and development can be discussed  subscribe send a blank email to
androiddiscuss+subscribe@android-discuss.groups.io
and follow the prompts.
to visit the subgroups  and subscribe (note you must be subscribed to the main group as well) visit the following URL:
about-android.tffppodcast.com

On 24 Jul 2018, at 11:26, Cristóbal wrote:

The mute feature gets a heavy workout from me.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2018 11:19 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Fine-Grained Control Over the Group Messages You Receive from Groups.io

 

Bumping this thread because I realize that I've never posted the direct link to the MS-Word format document that includes the refinements made by Timothy Wynn integrated into it.

Controlling the Messages You Receive via E-Mail from Groups.io


--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    A little kindness from person to person is better than a vast love for all humankind.

           ~ Richard Dehmel

 

 


Re: How to edit a PDF file

JM Casey <crystallogic@...>
 

Hey.

 

Use Microsoft Word, or OpenOffice Writer, instead.

Then convert to pdf if you have to.

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Holger Fiallo
Sent: July 24, 2018 1:36 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] How to edit a PDF file

 

Using Acrobat Reader DC, how to I edit a PDF file? 

Holger Fiallo


Re: Fine-Grained Control Over the Group Messages You Receive from Groups.io

Cristóbal
 

The mute feature gets a heavy workout from me.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2018 11:19 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Fine-Grained Control Over the Group Messages You Receive from Groups.io

 

Bumping this thread because I realize that I've never posted the direct link to the MS-Word format document that includes the refinements made by Timothy Wynn integrated into it.

Controlling the Messages You Receive via E-Mail from Groups.io


--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    A little kindness from person to person is better than a vast love for all humankind.

           ~ Richard Dehmel

 

 


Re: Fine-Grained Control Over the Group Messages You Receive from Groups.io

 

Bumping this thread because I realize that I've never posted the direct link to the MS-Word format document that includes the refinements made by Timothy Wynn integrated into it.

Controlling the Messages You Receive via E-Mail from Groups.io


--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    A little kindness from person to person is better than a vast love for all humankind.

           ~ Richard Dehmel

 

 


Re: Testing Latest Code Against Add-ons

Adriani Botez
 

Hello,

your aproach is correct. However, if you just want to test some add-ons, I suggest doing following:

1. Download the last NVDA snapshot
2. Run the setup file
3. After accepting the license agreement, press "run on this computer"
4. Install your test add-ons

Note that the test add-ons and all settings will go lost when exiting the temporary NVDA session. By click9ng on "run on this computer" you run a temporary copy of NVDA which is automatically closed when you exit NVDA. You do not need to install the copy anywhere.


Best
Adriani

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Im Auftrag von Richard
Wells
Gesendet: Dienstag, 24. Juli 2018 19:55
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Betreff: [nvda] Testing Latest Code Against Add-ons

Hello: I wanted to test some of my favorite add-ons against latest NVDA code
commits. Is https://www.nvaccess.org/files/nvda/snapshots/ where I need to
go to get these? With recent changes as to where latest development
happens, I wanted to make sure I was going to the right place to get it. I want
to keep my daily use 18.2.1 installation intact, so I hoped to install the
development code as a portable copy somewhere else on my hard drive. Any
guidance is appreciated.



Testing Latest Code Against Add-ons

Richard Wells
 

Hello: I wanted to test some of my favorite add-ons against latest NVDA code commits. Is https://www.nvaccess.org/files/nvda/snapshots/ where I need to go to get these? With recent changes as to where latest development happens, I wanted to make sure I was going to the right place to get it. I want to keep my daily use 18.2.1 installation intact, so I hoped to install the development code as a portable copy somewhere else on my hard drive. Any guidance is appreciated.


Re: My thoughts on offensive company names and so on.

 

On Tue, Jul 24, 2018 at 12:26 PM, Eleni Vamvakari wrote:
The fact that someone is new to something shouldn't impair his ability to actually learn about it.
But being fed a stream of inaccurate information makes that a much higher hurdle to jump.

I don't disagree with you about sarcasm or arch humor, either.   That's generally different from many of the full-blown fact-free rants one often encounters that make assertions that don't hold up to any examination.  Hence the reason I encourage people not to "buy" anything, whether utterly glowing or utterly negative, without getting out there and seeing what the consensus is and being circumspect about what sources they trust when doing that research.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    A little kindness from person to person is better than a vast love for all humankind.

           ~ Richard Dehmel

 

 


Re: How to edit a PDF file

ely.r@...
 

Current versions of Word can save the scanning step. Find the PDF file,,
right click on it and arrow down to "open with" and select Word if it is
there. When it opens in Word, the program will ask if you want to open it as
a word document. Generally the conversion tool does a good job of preserving
layout. The exception is when a PDF document has fields for the user to fill
in. However, those are a problems as well with scanning.
Rick

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ervin, Glenn
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2018 10:40 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to edit a PDF file

About all you can do is to do OCR on the PDF and copy and paste that into a
word processor, like Word, and clean it up.
Glenn


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Holger Fiallo
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2018 8:48 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to edit a PDF file

I want to change resume that I created.

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2018 8:07 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to edit a PDF file

The whole point of pdf is that they are a fixed format and cannot be
changed, though of course some off er fields to be filled in. It is
important for some copyright material that users cannot change the text for
obviously reasons, indeed some are protected so well you can't read them
with a screenreader, but thankfully not so much a problem now. More of a
problem is the clueless who make picture pdfs where its just a picture of
the text and these need to be run through an OCR to stand any chance of them
being read at all.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Holger Fiallo" <hfiallo@rcn.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2018 6:35 AM
Subject: [nvda] How to edit a PDF file


Using Acrobat Reader DC, how to I edit a PDF file?

Holger Fiallo


Re: My thoughts on offensive company names and so on.

Eleni Vamvakari
 

I use XP and 7 exclusively, so screen review is still quite valuable
to me. I was frustrated with the constant "program not responding"
errors, the freezing, and the slowness of Firefox to the point that I
have switched to K-Melion Goana. I find the experience to be much
quicker and smoother.

It should be fairly obvious when someone is being sarcastic and when
he is being serious. If someone is that concerned or curious, he can
ask. I love good research and facts, but not everything in life is
like that. People have opinions. Sometimes, they're grounded in
fact, and sometimes, they are based on emotions. The fact that
someone is new to something shouldn't impair his ability to actually
learn about it.

On 24/07/2018, Brian Vogel <britechguy@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Jul 24, 2018 at 09:39 AM, Gene wrote:


I consider it highly inappropriate to spread factually incorrect
information on a public list in this way.  There are users at a wide
variety of knowledge on the list.
Gene, not that I don't agree with you in principle, but by now you should
know very well that this sort of childish behavior is not going away.

One of the things we can do on lists like this is to present reasoned and
factual counterpoint to these rants, and to teach "newbies" how to think
critically about what's being said.   The internet as a whole is awash with
baseless garbage and two of the most valuable skills we can teach are to
"consider the source" and "do your homework/due diligence."

The logical complement to the old saying, "If it seems to good to be true it
probably isn't," is, "If it seems too bad to be true, it probably isn't,
either."   Companies, products, software, etc., don't develop huge user
bases (relative to markets they're serving) if they really are substandard.
The competition is just too intense and widespread.

--

Brian *-* Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134

   A little kindness from person to person is better than a vast love for
all humankind.

           ~ Richard Dehmel



--
Facebook: elvam2167@gmail.com

anyaudio.net: elvam2167

Skype: elvam2167


Re: Using different social media platforms/websites with NVDA

Jonathan COHN
 

After a specific tweet is read, if you press enter then the replies show up in the dialog but I have had limited success using the j/k keys there to navigate the thread. Though I have never tried on a Windows computer. So your resumts may be different.

 

 

From: <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Sociohack AC <acsociopath@...>
Reply-To: "nvda@nvda.groups.io" <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Date: Tuesday, July 24, 2018 at 11:39 AM
To: "nvda@nvda.groups.io" <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Using different social media platforms/websites with NVDA

 

Thanks for these shortcuts! Will they also be helpful in reading the replies of a tweet?


Re: OT discussions

 
Edited

I would not normally resend something like this on the heels of it appearing elsewhere, but I want to make sure that the correct link to the most recent information about how you do this is seen.  The one I posted this morning was to another topic on the Windows 10 for Screen Reader Users group, and it's harder to find the step-by-step instructions there.

Read:  Controlling the Messages You Receive via E-Mail from Groups.io
There has never been an e-mailing list service that gives a user more precise control over just what traffic they will allow through to their inbox.  It is a simple matter to set up any group, even one that routinely has torrents of messages, such that you get to preview new topics and make the decision as to whether you want to get any messages other than the initial one.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    A little kindness from person to person is better than a vast love for all humankind.

           ~ Richard Dehmel

 

 


Re: My thoughts on offensive company names and so on.

 

On Tue, Jul 24, 2018 at 09:39 AM, Gene wrote:
I consider it highly inappropriate to spread factually incorrect information on a public list in this way.  There are users at a wide variety of knowledge on the list.
Gene, not that I don't agree with you in principle, but by now you should know very well that this sort of childish behavior is not going away.

One of the things we can do on lists like this is to present reasoned and factual counterpoint to these rants, and to teach "newbies" how to think critically about what's being said.   The internet as a whole is awash with baseless garbage and two of the most valuable skills we can teach are to "consider the source" and "do your homework/due diligence."

The logical complement to the old saying, "If it seems to good to be true it probably isn't," is, "If it seems too bad to be true, it probably isn't, either."   Companies, products, software, etc., don't develop huge user bases (relative to markets they're serving) if they really are substandard.  The competition is just too intense and widespread.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    A little kindness from person to person is better than a vast love for all humankind.

           ~ Richard Dehmel

 

 


team talk was Re: [nvda] Accessible voice and text chat

Tyler Wood
 

Hi,

Team talk may very well work for you then. It's on all platforms - windows, iPhone and android and mac. Also linux, I believe.


Private, passworded channels can be created, both in stereo and mono audio.

Hope that helps

On 24-Jul-2018 4:10 AM, Eleni Vamvakari wrote:
Thank you, Tyler, both for your agreement and for your suggestions.
While I don't deliberately insult people for no reason, I am against
political correctness in general. If people wrote bad things about a
program that I liked, I would simply ignore it. I'm not its writer,
but if I were, I would ask what they didn't like about it so that we
could discuss it in a civil manner.

I will try Team Talk again. I don't mind if it's used widely in the
mainstream. I need it to contact my Greek teacher for lessons and my
best friend so that we can voice chat. If others wish to join me, of
course, they can do so, though of course, it's different from a
dedicated program like Skype, where you have friends that you can add,
etc. But maybe, some members of various Facebook groups might be
interested in meeting there! *smile*

On 24/07/2018, Tyler Wood <tcwood12@gmail.com> wrote:
I have to agree with Eleni here.


2018 seems to be the year to be overly offended by everything. Instead
of talking about the original subject we're now suddenly talking about a
name for a company. Really, who cares. People shouldn't need their hand
held at every turn on a mailing list.


Regardless, Eleni, good luck in finding alternatives that work as nice
as skype. Team talk is nice, yes, but not many folks in the mainstream
use it. Team speak has its own set of frustrating issues - one of which
is accessing context menus with NVDA without restarting it. Discord is
slowly, oh so slowly, improving. Google hangouts is...kind of? okay, but
I forget what I didn't like about it as it has been a while, so perhaps
things have changed.


Sorry I couldn't be more help



On 24-Jul-2018 1:42 AM, Gene wrote:
I consider this to be little short of bashing, microslop, mocrosoft?
This is a public list and insulting companies may offend or bother
people who like products of a company.
If more people did this on list, the level of the list would be
degraded and it's nature would change from a helping and discussion
list to a help, discussion, and product bashing list.
If this practice spread, peoples feelings might be hurt.  I don't know
who is on the list now, but in the past someone was on the list that
helped develop accessibility for Open Office and someone who works on
E-Speak was a member.  If you start this sort of thing and it spreads,
it might have effects not considered by the original practitioner.
And, as you saw from comments earlier from various people, the
disparagement isn't necessarily accurate.  many people presented
information about Microsoft that contradicted it.
Would you like seeing your favorite program disparaged in this way
even if the comments weren't directed toward you?
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Eleni Vamvakari <mailto:elvam2167@gmail.com>
*Sent:* Tuesday, July 24, 2018 1:07 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Accessible voice and text chat

People need to stop being offended by everything, especially comments
not directed toward them.  Who cares whether someone uses a
disparaging name of a company?  It's not a personal insult or attack.

In any case, I am of the opinion that, if things work well, they
should be improved, not changed entirely.  I liked earlier versions of
Skype.  Then came 7, which was annoying in several ways (I cannot
think of them at the moment, as I haven't used the older versions of
Skype since they discontinued them).  Now, there is a completely new
interface.  I have tried it remotely on my friend's computer (with his
permission, of course) but we were in a call, so I didn't get the full
effect of going through contacts, making and answering a call, etc.
In some ways, it's quicker than 7, and things are immediately present,
instead of being in a list and under menus.  But some things seemed to
be missing.  I just don't see the need to needlessly complicate
things, and even if this works, I am still interested in alternatives
with a simpler and more traditional interface.

On 23/07/2018, Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@gmail.com
<mailto:sm.everiss@gmail.com>> wrote:
I don't see how it would either.

Except dolphin maybe, their brouser access is well  not there only old
versions of internet explorer work with their stuff.

They say they are working on chrome but catch up they are doing,
firefox, chrome, waterfox, most of those we allready have everywhere
else.



On 7/24/2018 8:54 AM, Lino Morales wrote:
Good point Tyler. And this goes back to the VFO brewhaha we had on
here
last week. I don’t see how Narrator would disrupt open source screen
readers like NVDA as his Erickness stated in that podcast. As I
always say
viva la NVDA!



Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
Windows
10



________________________________
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>> on behalf of Tyler
Wood
<tcwood12@gmail.com <mailto:tcwood12@gmail.com>>
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 4:49:46 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Accessible voice and text chat

A few years ago I might have agreed with you on microsoft playing
catch
up.


These days, as you say, Microsoft is everywhere. Seeing AI is simply a
revolutionary tool on the smartphone and is not made by apple.
Similarly, narrator is quickly becoming a replacement for your
every day
screen reader. Keep in mind that the NFB went at apple pretty hard
back
in the day, too, so it isn't as though their bringing more
accessibility
into the market was voluntary. Microsoft has pretty decent
accessibility
on the Xbox, as well, a far cry from Sony who, even though they
released
so called accessibility first, are still missing crutial tts in areas
like the system settings 4 years later. Playing catch up, indeed.

I'm curious where you think microsoft is lacking in accessibility
these
days? Considering we have quite a few folks with disabilities working
for microsoft as well as apple, I think they're on a pretty level
playing field.


On 23-Jul-2018 3:40 PM, Antony Stone wrote:
Microsoft may have a better record on accessibility than "many other
companies", but depending on which other companies you compare
them with,
that
may not be saying much.

Also, given their overwhelming dominance in the desktop (laptop)
computing
market, I think they have not done as well as they should have done
in
terms
of accessibility.

I think Apple were late starters in the accessibility arena, but once
they
decided to go for it, they showed how it should be done, and
Microsoft
have
simply played catch-up, in order to avoid total embarrassment (rather
like
they had to in the mid 90s when they suddenly realised that people
had
found
out about the Internet, and if they didn't do something quick,
they'd be
left
behind in the networked world).


Antony.

On Monday 23 July 2018 at 22:29:59, Gene wrote:

I'm saying this not as a moderator, but as a list member.  I really
object
to you giving companies disparaging nicknames and I especially
object
to
it when the company has a much better record on accessibility
than many
other companies.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

On 7/24/2018 4:13 AM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
I never actually lost trust in MS. I knew that skype was in time
going
to be a good thing and  talk about html was in happening  even
since
about 2004 if I remember correctly. Skype has come a long way and
we
have to thank microslop for  it. They  made skype what it is
today, a
ver good tool for my jobs and more.






--
Facebook: elvam2167@gmail.com <mailto:elvam2167@gmail.com>

anyaudio.net: elvam2167

Skype: elvam2167






Re: How to edit a PDF file

 

On Tue, Jul 24, 2018 at 10:05 AM, Cohn, Jonathan wrote:
The best thing to do is open the file you used to create the PDF and work off of that. 
Which I can only second.   Very few home users have Acrobat (full Acrobat, not Reader) or any other full-featured PDF editor.  Most PDF files are created either by using the "Save as PDF" feature of a word processor or by using a pseudo-printer that prints to a PDF file, e.g., PDF Creator.

Find your source file, edit it in whatever native program you created it with, and do a "Save as PDF" or, if that's not available, download and install one of the many utilities that allows you to "print" to PDF.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    A little kindness from person to person is better than a vast love for all humankind.

           ~ Richard Dehmel

 

 


Re: My thoughts on offensive company names and so on.

Tyler Wood
 

Hi,

I actually did the exact same thing regarding mac.

Interacting with things is far from intuitive in my mind and sometimes especially in windows 10, object navigation is a little frustrating because I feel like I'm doing the exact same thing when screen review should get me the exact same information even quicker. - for instance, where windows 7 used to allow it certain areas, 10 has very few places that it comes in handy recently at least for me. This is the fault of noone, it is simply the times we live in. There isn't a magic program that is going to come and fix everyone's problems and gripes. Leaving feedback, because microsoft really does listen, is the best course of action. I applaud this company for everything they've done recently.



But, I certainly think basic accessibility and most notably choice has come leaps and bounds even from a few years ago. We have quite a few different web browsers that get the job done on windows now - from edge to internet explorer, firefox and chrome. I don't like firefox these days either though some sites do work better with it, so I keep it around.


Getting into the bios would be an absolutely wonderful thing. I wonder if microsoft will ever incorporate talking bios into their surface line of computers?

On 24-Jul-2018 4:03 AM, Eleni Vamvakari wrote:
From a grammatical perspective, I agree with you, John. I'm not one
to create silly names and such. I just explain my problems or ask my
questions in a clear manner, as I am not usually one for sarcasm or
satire. But I do think that, in general, people become offended far
too easily today.

I agree that certain universal keystrokes make sense. This is why I
like the standard menu interface in Windows, and why Firefox and Skype
annoyed me with their menu, tab, and list category combinations. It
didn't seem like a traditional menu structure to me, if that makes
sense.

Even though I have been using NVDA for many years, I never really
understood object navigation. It is quite different, in my mind at
least, from the cursors in JFW and the various modes in Vocal-Eyes. I
used a Mac in the days of Leopard and Snow Leopard, and the
interacting, along with a few other issues, most noteably the lack of
good support for Greek, are what made me return to Windows. Even now,
espeak is the only synthesizer that I know of which fully supports
polytonic Greek. At any rate, I hated having to interact with things
all of the time.

I have talking system recovery disks, so I doubt I would ever need
safe mode. But I would love to be able to boot into the bios!

On 24/07/2018, David Moore <jesusloves1966@gmail.com> wrote:
Here is my wisdom!
If you have nothing good to say, say nothing, that would be so much better!
If you have a problem with someone, say it to their face, quit being evasive
with members on the list, who can do nothing about your gripe. Talk to MS
yourself!
David Moore


Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: John Isige
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2018 3:35 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] My thoughts on offensive company names and so on.

Well for me, I don't care about the offensiveness so much. What I care
about is stuff like:

Last night I was using elocrash with Skum from Microslop and I tried
with the shark and Microslop Notreader and NVDA and nothing was
working"! I'm sorry, l33t (look it up if you don't know/remember) wasn't
cool back in the 80s when it got started, and this stuff that's
essentially an equivalent of it isn't cool either. I know, just like the
l33t k1dz whu t0t3z roxxorz! you think you're terribly terribly clever,
but just as they weren't, really, you're not.

That's my problem, having to parse whatever dumb gibberish people think
is clever this week because all they can do is puns, the lowest form of
humor, on company names that really don't work anyway, instead of coming
up with something that's actually witty and meaningful. You see what I
did there? I actually wrote real words that everybody can understand and
stuff instead of going "shut up, John Isicky"! It also seems really odd
to insult a company you just got done saying did something right, but
maybe that's just that irony all you young people are supposed to be
into nowadays, and I'm just too old to get it. Besides, you will never
beat the pun on HP-UX, which is both obvious and funny, so really,
there's no point to it all anyway. I'll leave the working out of that
pun as an exercise for the reader.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with the offensive part too. While I realize
companies, e.g. Microsoft, have a history to live down, a lot of that
was quite a while ago. Plus, how are they ever going to live it down or
get better if we're not giving them a chance, semi-praising them on the
one hand and insulting them on the other? You think that will make them
want to keep putting in the work for accessibility? Also, what in the
world is up with this "they're playing catch-up" stuff? Ooooo, Apple did
accessibility right, they showed everybody how it's done! OK, and then
you're upset that somebody's copying that? I mean, if Apple's so super
special awesome and all, shouldn't we want everybody and their fifth
cousin to copy them, such that we have proper accessibility on every
conceivable platform? Why are you complaining that other companies are
doing something like that? That should be, as I believe I've said when
it was mentioned that keyboard commands were being changed to be more
like other screen readers, exactly what we want. For example, my wife
bought a used mac for us. I read this article:

https://www.applevis.com/blog/apple-mac-os-x/debunking-common-myths-about-voiceover-mac

Looking at the web section, I see we've got commands to jump by headings
and all, and it seems pretty similar to other screen readers. Great!
That's less time wasted in trying to figure out how to do simple things,
and more time using the mac. Obviously I want to get more familiar with
the mac way of doing things and not just do what I'm doing on Windows,
because maybe mac does something better. But that will happen over time.
If I want to sit down and start checking something out to see what it's
like, the more barriers in my way like "learn an entirely different set
of commands and things just to navigate a web page", the less likely I
am to want to use that thing.

I'm not suggesting that every screen reader should work exactly like
every other screen reader. I'm saying that there should be a base set of
things that are pretty similar, e.g. I can do a lot of the same basic
stuff to get around in Android that I can do to get around in iOS. Sure,
if I really want to use either one, I'm going to have to learn their
specifics, but in general, I can pick up either kind of device with a
screen reader active and start using it to do stuff, no problem. You can
see this with NVDA too. What's the thing most people get hung up on?

That's right, object navigation. I use it a lot more now, particularly
if something isn't reading what I think it should, but it was confusing
for a bit until I got Joseph's tutorial. But you know what? Part of that
was because it was different from other screen readers I'd used, but
part of it was that I didn't have to worry about using it for a long
time, because NVDA does what I'm talking about. If you've used NVDA and
JFW, as I assume most people here have, you know there's a lot of stuff
that's similar between them in how you access Windows, e.g. using the
arrow keys and such.

But maybe you actually find object navigation better than the jaws
cursor. I'll give you an example, on the mac if you're reading a table,
you interact with it. Then you read it like you read any other thing. So
there's only, potentially, one extra command to remember, you have to
interact first. I don't have to try and learn a whole new set of table
navigation keystrokes. I used that example because it's fresh in my mind
and I honestly don't remember enough about how JFW did things to say
what's better or worse between it and NVDA.

Anyway the point to this rambling is that we shouldn't be implying that
other companies are substandard or whatever, because they've got feature
Y that looks a lot like feature X from Company Z's screen reader Lava
Talk, the screen reader that spits fire! We should be going "awesome,
they realized what works already, that's gonna save me a lot of time if
I ever have to learn or use that screen reader, especially if it's on
short notice". We shouldn't be complaining that they're "catching up". I
say, are they doing the work? Great, that means more stuff I can use in
more situations. Any "catching up" being done is nothing but a benefit
to us, pure and simple. Here's one last example. Microsoft now has it so
you can use Narrator in safe mode. How awesome would it be if they had a
key you could hold down while Windows is booting, like the recovery keys
on a mac, that boots you into safe mode automatically? Right now I'm
pretty sure you still have to hit a key and pick from a menu, which
means sighted assistance, if you want to be sure you've got it right.
How cool would it be to hold down, I don't know, Windows-n on boot and
get safe mode with networking, and just waiting a bit and then launching
Narrator and geting speech? I don't know about anybody else, but it
sounds really nice to me, if I ever encounter a problem.

There, I think I'm done. Except to say, again, that we should be
praising companies who are trying to do right, even if we think it took
them long enough, instead of slamming them for that and inventing dumb
insulting names for them. If they're doing right, or trying to do right,
then that's what they're doing, and we should only encourage it. Sure,
if they mess up, tell them so, hopefully constructively. I'm not saying
we should only be nice and say only good things about the stuff
companies make. But by all the gods, have some perspective. Your names
are neither cute nor clever, and we're not twelve any more. I'm pretty
sure I'm like, 14 or something.








Re: Using different social media platforms/websites with NVDA

Akshaya Choudhary
 

Thanks for these shortcuts! Will they also be helpful in reading the replies of a tweet?


Re: OT discussions

E.T.
 

Now I remember why I unsubscribed from this group the last time. Too much traffic. Already almost 200 posts just since the start of the week. (smiles)

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
Ancient.Aliens@icloud.com
Science is not only compatible with spirituality;
it is a profound source of spirituality.| --Carl Sagan

On 7/24/2018 6:11 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
I think there are basically two issues. Out and out completely off topic messages, which rally once answered once should not attract further replies is they just repeat the same thing, and subject drift which are a little more difficult.
One of the most annoying though is when somebody announces  something like I need nvda with X voic4e as it surely is the only voice for a screenreader. This is as the old saying goes often a red rag to a bull (OK Bulls are colour blind, so sue me!), and OK its true for that individual but not a lots of others.
I think in this case a simple link to the page telling folk of all the synths is probably all that is needed.
Brian
bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian K. Lingard" <bkl@ncf.ca>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2018 1:25 PM
Subject: [nvda] OT discussions

Dear Gene & List:
Yes, some off topic discussion is desirable, guess my primary beef is
subjects that do not highly describe the topic of discussion in the message
bodies.

I trust I am not coming across as moderator, however was commenting on list
posting habits generally.
Brian





Re: Anybody on here testing the FF betas?

Lino Morales
 

Sweet Silvi. I’ll have to try beta 10 and see how it goes on my PC.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Sylvie Duchateau <sduchateau@...>
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2018 10:29:16 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Anybody on here testing the FF betas?
 

Hello,

I use Firefox 62 beta 10 with NVDA 2018.2 and it works fine. Now, I noticed that Firefox is as fast as Chrome again.

Best

Sylvie




Le 24/07/2018 à 16:24, Lino Morales a écrit :

What up Duck? Cool. How about the rest of you? I forget what beta we are in 62 currently. How is it working for you?

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Mallard <mallard@...>
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2018 9:57:00 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Anybody on here testing the FF betas?
 
Hello Lino,


I've just upgraded to Firefox 63.01 with Nightly, and it's quite fast.
On the other hand, I've never experienced any lags on Firefox at all.
I'm generally using the official version, 61.01, which works very
smoothly at this end.

hth, ciao,

Ollie





Il 23/07/2018 22:59, Lino Morales ha scritto:
>
> Hi. Is anyone on here testing the latest betas of Firefox with NVDA
> 2018.2 or later? Is it any faster? I’m still using Waterfox. Thanks.
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows 10
>
>






Re: How to edit a PDF file

Ervin, Glenn
 

About all you can do is to do OCR on the PDF and copy and paste that into a word processor, like Word, and clean it up.
Glenn

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Holger Fiallo
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2018 8:48 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to edit a PDF file

I want to change resume that I created.

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2018 8:07 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to edit a PDF file

The whole point of pdf is that they are a fixed format and cannot be changed, though of course some off er fields to be filled in. It is important for some copyright material that users cannot change the text for obviously reasons, indeed some are protected so well you can't read them with a screenreader, but thankfully not so much a problem now. More of a problem is the clueless who make picture pdfs where its just a picture of the text and these need to be run through an OCR to stand any chance of them being read at all.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Holger Fiallo" <hfiallo@rcn.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2018 6:35 AM
Subject: [nvda] How to edit a PDF file


Using Acrobat Reader DC, how to I edit a PDF file?

Holger Fiallo