Date   
Re: academics and employment

Gene
 

I'm glad you enjoyed it and found it useful. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 5:08 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

Thank you for sharing your insights on this! They were a pleasure to read. I like to read and write a lot. I do not mind reading long messages.

 

When I generalized about JAWS, I was being informal. I should have asked the group not to take my advice as solid proof. Overall, it sounds like what we really need to do is have a large group of people reproduce the exact steps that cause JAWS to crash, and if it is consistent on that large number of machines, we need to use a debugger and log files to step through the app or site JAWS is crashing on when it happens, document it, and send that report to Freedom Scientific.

 

The conclusion I drew from what you wrote, overall, is that nothing is perfect. I use the tools that will solve the problem along the way, and suggest improvements as I go.

 

Mike

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 5:02 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

 

This message is rather long.  You may or may not want to read it all.  I hope you find it interesting and useful.

 

Others may be able to give you an answer or some sort of guide about a good sample size.  I don't have any formal answer.  Intermittent or not, if there is a performance problem on only one machine that is known, it can't be generalized to be a problem that affects a lot of or most machines without more information.  I never say the person isn't having the problem unless I know the cause and it isn't what is being claimed but off and on, when someone generalizes about a performance problem because they have it, I say that it hasn't been demonstrated that it is a general problem.

 

Recently, a member said they had the same problem on two or three computers.  Ssince the problem occurred in a very popular application and no one had reported it on any list I follow except him, I surmised and said, not as a definite conclusion, but as, what I consider to  be a likely state of affairs, that the person had done the same thing on all those machines, installed or uninstalled the same program or something, whatever it might be that caused the problem on all machines.  I use the nature of the problem, if I've seen it reported by others, and other factors, if they seem relevant, but my main point is that I see people generalize about a product by saying how terrible it is because of a performance problem on their machine and generalization can't be done. 

 

As far as the announcement of visited links is concerned, I believe that is true, that it can't be turned on or off.  But not to use a screen-reader because of one tiny behavior like that is, in my opinion, absurd. 

 

If someone is that bothered by visited link announcement, delete browsing history.  That's what visited links are determined by.  The information is stored in browsing history and turning it off will cause all links to be shown as unvisited. 

 

Second, if you tab through links, or use the letter k to move just by links, you will hear the link spoken and visited spoken afterword.  This is another example of where NVDA should be user customizable.  You should be able to turn off visited as an announcement but further, you should be able to set NVDA to announce visited before or after a link and it should be consistent no matter how you move through links. 

 

As I said yesterday, it might be a good idea to have a small group convene and consider and get input from users about how NvDA should be made more customizable.  In this respect, you also can't adjust when other controls are heard, do you want to hear button or combo box or check box, for example, before or after you hear the text announced. 

 

I haven't used System Access enough for a long time to know how it may have changed in more recent years.  Regardless, it simply is more limited than NVDA on the Internet and in general.  It wasn't developed to be a powerful screen-reader, it was intended to be powerful enough to meet less demanding users' needs at a time when there were no or no decent considerably lower price alternatives to JAWS and Window-eyes whereas NVDA is intended to be a much more powerful screen-reader

 

Take one example, the simulated mouse in System Access is much less capable.  there are times when you must use the simulated mouse to activate a link or control.  But you often can't do it using the System Access mouse, at least that is my recollection.  And talk about annoyances, the simulated mouse in System Access is programmed to make a horrible nerve-grating noise when you click it.  What were they thinking?  In my opinion, that noise is much more disgusting and annoying than hearing the word "visited" when I don't want to. 

 

On the other hand, years ago, I used one or two web sites that couldn't be used to perform their main function when other screen-readers were used.  I could use a link or control to perform an essential action that wouldn't work with another screen-reader.  Also, on this or that page, System Access would read changes that occurred on the page, not where I was working when I would take an action and that was essential because I wouldn't have known that the page had changed otherwise even if I could have read the new material.  And it would have been ridiculously inefficient to look around the page every time I guessed that it might have changed somewhere.

 

There is no one ideal screen-reader and I strongly feel that not using a screen-reader because of this or that small or tiny behavior is absurd.  Such behaviors may be annoying but it's a classic example of the cliché about a mountain out of a molehill.

 

Gene

Gene----- Original Message ---------- Original Message -----

Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 3:57 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

 

I believe in using whatever resources are at my fingertips, in any given situation. If I come across an inaccessible app at work, I am not going to have the time to program out a fix for it, plus do the programming I do as part of my job, and meet the deadline.

 

The reason my friend uses System Access and not NVDA is that he claims with NVDA, you cannot turn off the announcement of visited and unvisited links.

 

Also, Gene, you were talking about sample size and testing software earlier. What is an accurate sample size for testing an intermittent problem? When JAWS crashes on the machines I used, it is intermittent. I wish they taught us more about troubleshooting intermittent problems in school. It is a skill that I have much room for growth in.

 

Mike

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 3:51 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

 

System Access isn't nearly as powerful as NVDA but it works with web pages differently.  While this generally doesn't matter in terms of accessibility of web pages, at times it does.  So it's good to have as a resource.  But you don't have to install it.  Try System Access to Go.  As a once in awhile resource, it may be useful. 

You used to have to use System Access to Go with Internet Explorer.  I'm not sure now, though I believe that in order to use the talking feature that speaks when you open the web site, you still may. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 3:34 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

 

I had a problem with System Access where it totally locked up my computer when I installed it. I may have to retry. My friend keeps wanting me to try it.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 3:32 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

Hi, Mike,

One time I had to fill out a survey for Hadley School and NVDA didn't see all the different fields for typing in information so I used system access to go. With system access to go, I was able to complete the survey.

Rosemarie

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Walker, Michael E. (UMSL-Student)
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 1:11 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

Rosemarie, I am also context sensitive when it comes to screen readers. NVDA meets most of my needs. Where it does not, I use JAWS.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 12:28 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

Hi, Chris,

Yes, it appears from what I read that Gene prefers Jaws over NVDA. We all have the right to our own opinions. We should be able to agree to disagree.
After all, that's what life is all about--differing viewpoints. I used Jaws for years and both Jaws and NVDA are great programs. NVDA serves my needs very well.

Rosemarie

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Chris Shook
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2018 8:12 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

THis really has nothing to do with the current conversation, but I have to ask.
Since when did human society degrade to such a point that people cannot have different viewpoints on issues.
I happen to agree with Michael that I do like NVDA better than JAWS.
THat is not to say JAWS is a bad product. I just prefer NVDA over JAWS.
Jean, it appears that you prefer JAWS over NVDA. That's cool to. Can't we just agree to disagree?"













Re: academics and employment

Mike
 

Thank you for sharing your insights on this! They were a pleasure to read. I like to read and write a lot. I do not mind reading long messages.

 

When I generalized about JAWS, I was being informal. I should have asked the group not to take my advice as solid proof. Overall, it sounds like what we really need to do is have a large group of people reproduce the exact steps that cause JAWS to crash, and if it is consistent on that large number of machines, we need to use a debugger and log files to step through the app or site JAWS is crashing on when it happens, document it, and send that report to Freedom Scientific.

 

The conclusion I drew from what you wrote, overall, is that nothing is perfect. I use the tools that will solve the problem along the way, and suggest improvements as I go.

 

Mike

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 5:02 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

 

This message is rather long.  You may or may not want to read it all.  I hope you find it interesting and useful.

 

Others may be able to give you an answer or some sort of guide about a good sample size.  I don't have any formal answer.  Intermittent or not, if there is a performance problem on only one machine that is known, it can't be generalized to be a problem that affects a lot of or most machines without more information.  I never say the person isn't having the problem unless I know the cause and it isn't what is being claimed but off and on, when someone generalizes about a performance problem because they have it, I say that it hasn't been demonstrated that it is a general problem.

 

Recently, a member said they had the same problem on two or three computers.  Ssince the problem occurred in a very popular application and no one had reported it on any list I follow except him, I surmised and said, not as a definite conclusion, but as, what I consider to  be a likely state of affairs, that the person had done the same thing on all those machines, installed or uninstalled the same program or something, whatever it might be that caused the problem on all machines.  I use the nature of the problem, if I've seen it reported by others, and other factors, if they seem relevant, but my main point is that I see people generalize about a product by saying how terrible it is because of a performance problem on their machine and generalization can't be done. 

 

As far as the announcement of visited links is concerned, I believe that is true, that it can't be turned on or off.  But not to use a screen-reader because of one tiny behavior like that is, in my opinion, absurd. 

 

If someone is that bothered by visited link announcement, delete browsing history.  That's what visited links are determined by.  The information is stored in browsing history and turning it off will cause all links to be shown as unvisited. 

 

Second, if you tab through links, or use the letter k to move just by links, you will hear the link spoken and visited spoken afterword.  This is another example of where NVDA should be user customizable.  You should be able to turn off visited as an announcement but further, you should be able to set NVDA to announce visited before or after a link and it should be consistent no matter how you move through links. 

 

As I said yesterday, it might be a good idea to have a small group convene and consider and get input from users about how NvDA should be made more customizable.  In this respect, you also can't adjust when other controls are heard, do you want to hear button or combo box or check box, for example, before or after you hear the text announced. 

 

I haven't used System Access enough for a long time to know how it may have changed in more recent years.  Regardless, it simply is more limited than NVDA on the Internet and in general.  It wasn't developed to be a powerful screen-reader, it was intended to be powerful enough to meet less demanding users' needs at a time when there were no or no decent considerably lower price alternatives to JAWS and Window-eyes whereas NVDA is intended to be a much more powerful screen-reader

 

Take one example, the simulated mouse in System Access is much less capable.  there are times when you must use the simulated mouse to activate a link or control.  But you often can't do it using the System Access mouse, at least that is my recollection.  And talk about annoyances, the simulated mouse in System Access is programmed to make a horrible nerve-grating noise when you click it.  What were they thinking?  In my opinion, that noise is much more disgusting and annoying than hearing the word "visited" when I don't want to. 

 

On the other hand, years ago, I used one or two web sites that couldn't be used to perform their main function when other screen-readers were used.  I could use a link or control to perform an essential action that wouldn't work with another screen-reader.  Also, on this or that page, System Access would read changes that occurred on the page, not where I was working when I would take an action and that was essential because I wouldn't have known that the page had changed otherwise even if I could have read the new material.  And it would have been ridiculously inefficient to look around the page every time I guessed that it might have changed somewhere.

 

There is no one ideal screen-reader and I strongly feel that not using a screen-reader because of this or that small or tiny behavior is absurd.  Such behaviors may be annoying but it's a classic example of the cliché about a mountain out of a molehill.

 

Gene

Gene----- Original Message ---------- Original Message -----

Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 3:57 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

 

I believe in using whatever resources are at my fingertips, in any given situation. If I come across an inaccessible app at work, I am not going to have the time to program out a fix for it, plus do the programming I do as part of my job, and meet the deadline.

 

The reason my friend uses System Access and not NVDA is that he claims with NVDA, you cannot turn off the announcement of visited and unvisited links.

 

Also, Gene, you were talking about sample size and testing software earlier. What is an accurate sample size for testing an intermittent problem? When JAWS crashes on the machines I used, it is intermittent. I wish they taught us more about troubleshooting intermittent problems in school. It is a skill that I have much room for growth in.

 

Mike

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 3:51 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

 

System Access isn't nearly as powerful as NVDA but it works with web pages differently.  While this generally doesn't matter in terms of accessibility of web pages, at times it does.  So it's good to have as a resource.  But you don't have to install it.  Try System Access to Go.  As a once in awhile resource, it may be useful. 

You used to have to use System Access to Go with Internet Explorer.  I'm not sure now, though I believe that in order to use the talking feature that speaks when you open the web site, you still may. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 3:34 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

 

I had a problem with System Access where it totally locked up my computer when I installed it. I may have to retry. My friend keeps wanting me to try it.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 3:32 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

Hi, Mike,

One time I had to fill out a survey for Hadley School and NVDA didn't see all the different fields for typing in information so I used system access to go. With system access to go, I was able to complete the survey.

Rosemarie

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Walker, Michael E. (UMSL-Student)
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 1:11 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

Rosemarie, I am also context sensitive when it comes to screen readers. NVDA meets most of my needs. Where it does not, I use JAWS.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 12:28 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

Hi, Chris,

Yes, it appears from what I read that Gene prefers Jaws over NVDA. We all have the right to our own opinions. We should be able to agree to disagree.
After all, that's what life is all about--differing viewpoints. I used Jaws for years and both Jaws and NVDA are great programs. NVDA serves my needs very well.

Rosemarie

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Chris Shook
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2018 8:12 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

THis really has nothing to do with the current conversation, but I have to ask.
Since when did human society degrade to such a point that people cannot have different viewpoints on issues.
I happen to agree with Michael that I do like NVDA better than JAWS.
THat is not to say JAWS is a bad product. I just prefer NVDA over JAWS.
Jean, it appears that you prefer JAWS over NVDA. That's cool to. Can't we just agree to disagree?"













Re: academics and employment

Gene
 

This message is rather long.  You may or may not want to read it all.  I hope you find it interesting and useful.
 
Others may be able to give you an answer or some sort of guide about a good sample size.  I don't have any formal answer.  Intermittent or not, if there is a performance problem on only one machine that is known, it can't be generalized to be a problem that affects a lot of or most machines without more information.  I never say the person isn't having the problem unless I know the cause and it isn't what is being claimed but off and on, when someone generalizes about a performance problem because they have it, I say that it hasn't been demonstrated that it is a general problem.
 
Recently, a member said they had the same problem on two or three computers.  Ssince the problem occurred in a very popular application and no one had reported it on any list I follow except him, I surmised and said, not as a definite conclusion, but as, what I consider to  be a likely state of affairs, that the person had done the same thing on all those machines, installed or uninstalled the same program or something, whatever it might be that caused the problem on all machines.  I use the nature of the problem, if I've seen it reported by others, and other factors, if they seem relevant, but my main point is that I see people generalize about a product by saying how terrible it is because of a performance problem on their machine and generalization can't be done. 
 
As far as the announcement of visited links is concerned, I believe that is true, that it can't be turned on or off.  But not to use a screen-reader because of one tiny behavior like that is, in my opinion, absurd. 
 
If someone is that bothered by visited link announcement, delete browsing history.  That's what visited links are determined by.  The information is stored in browsing history and turning it off will cause all links to be shown as unvisited. 
 
Second, if you tab through links, or use the letter k to move just by links, you will hear the link spoken and visited spoken afterword.  This is another example of where NVDA should be user customizable.  You should be able to turn off visited as an announcement but further, you should be able to set NVDA to announce visited before or after a link and it should be consistent no matter how you move through links. 
 
As I said yesterday, it might be a good idea to have a small group convene and consider and get input from users about how NvDA should be made more customizable.  In this respect, you also can't adjust when other controls are heard, do you want to hear button or combo box or check box, for example, before or after you hear the text announced. 
 
I haven't used System Access enough for a long time to know how it may have changed in more recent years.  Regardless, it simply is more limited than NVDA on the Internet and in general.  It wasn't developed to be a powerful screen-reader, it was intended to be powerful enough to meet less demanding users' needs at a time when there were no or no decent considerably lower price alternatives to JAWS and Window-eyes whereas NVDA is intended to be a much more powerful screen-reader
 
Take one example, the simulated mouse in System Access is much less capable.  there are times when you must use the simulated mouse to activate a link or control.  But you often can't do it using the System Access mouse, at least that is my recollection.  And talk about annoyances, the simulated mouse in System Access is programmed to make a horrible nerve-grating noise when you click it.  What were they thinking?  In my opinion, that noise is much more disgusting and annoying than hearing the word "visited" when I don't want to. 
 
On the other hand, years ago, I used one or two web sites that couldn't be used to perform their main function when other screen-readers were used.  I could use a link or control to perform an essential action that wouldn't work with another screen-reader.  Also, on this or that page, System Access would read changes that occurred on the page, not where I was working when I would take an action and that was essential because I wouldn't have known that the page had changed otherwise even if I could have read the new material.  And it would have been ridiculously inefficient to look around the page every time I guessed that it might have changed somewhere.
 
There is no one ideal screen-reader and I strongly feel that not using a screen-reader because of this or that small or tiny behavior is absurd.  Such behaviors may be annoying but it's a classic example of the cliché about a mountain out of a molehill.
 
Gene

Gene----- Original Message ---------- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 3:57 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

I believe in using whatever resources are at my fingertips, in any given situation. If I come across an inaccessible app at work, I am not going to have the time to program out a fix for it, plus do the programming I do as part of my job, and meet the deadline.

 

The reason my friend uses System Access and not NVDA is that he claims with NVDA, you cannot turn off the announcement of visited and unvisited links.

 

Also, Gene, you were talking about sample size and testing software earlier. What is an accurate sample size for testing an intermittent problem? When JAWS crashes on the machines I used, it is intermittent. I wish they taught us more about troubleshooting intermittent problems in school. It is a skill that I have much room for growth in.

 

Mike

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 3:51 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

 

System Access isn't nearly as powerful as NVDA but it works with web pages differently.  While this generally doesn't matter in terms of accessibility of web pages, at times it does.  So it's good to have as a resource.  But you don't have to install it.  Try System Access to Go.  As a once in awhile resource, it may be useful. 

You used to have to use System Access to Go with Internet Explorer.  I'm not sure now, though I believe that in order to use the talking feature that speaks when you open the web site, you still may. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 3:34 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

 

I had a problem with System Access where it totally locked up my computer when I installed it. I may have to retry. My friend keeps wanting me to try it.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 3:32 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

Hi, Mike,

One time I had to fill out a survey for Hadley School and NVDA didn't see all the different fields for typing in information so I used system access to go. With system access to go, I was able to complete the survey.

Rosemarie

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Walker, Michael E. (UMSL-Student)
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 1:11 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

Rosemarie, I am also context sensitive when it comes to screen readers. NVDA meets most of my needs. Where it does not, I use JAWS.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 12:28 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

Hi, Chris,

Yes, it appears from what I read that Gene prefers Jaws over NVDA. We all have the right to our own opinions. We should be able to agree to disagree.
After all, that's what life is all about--differing viewpoints. I used Jaws for years and both Jaws and NVDA are great programs. NVDA serves my needs very well.

Rosemarie

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Chris Shook
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2018 8:12 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

THis really has nothing to do with the current conversation, but I have to ask.
Since when did human society degrade to such a point that people cannot have different viewpoints on issues.
I happen to agree with Michael that I do like NVDA better than JAWS.
THat is not to say JAWS is a bad product. I just prefer NVDA over JAWS.
Jean, it appears that you prefer JAWS over NVDA. That's cool to. Can't we just agree to disagree?"














Re: academics and employment

Mike
 

I believe in using whatever resources are at my fingertips, in any given situation. If I come across an inaccessible app at work, I am not going to have the time to program out a fix for it, plus do the programming I do as part of my job, and meet the deadline.

 

The reason my friend uses System Access and not NVDA is that he claims with NVDA, you cannot turn off the announcement of visited and unvisited links.

 

Also, Gene, you were talking about sample size and testing software earlier. What is an accurate sample size for testing an intermittent problem? When JAWS crashes on the machines I used, it is intermittent. I wish they taught us more about troubleshooting intermittent problems in school. It is a skill that I have much room for growth in.

 

Mike

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 3:51 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

 

System Access isn't nearly as powerful as NVDA but it works with web pages differently.  While this generally doesn't matter in terms of accessibility of web pages, at times it does.  So it's good to have as a resource.  But you don't have to install it.  Try System Access to Go.  As a once in awhile resource, it may be useful. 

You used to have to use System Access to Go with Internet Explorer.  I'm not sure now, though I believe that in order to use the talking feature that speaks when you open the web site, you still may. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 3:34 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

 

I had a problem with System Access where it totally locked up my computer when I installed it. I may have to retry. My friend keeps wanting me to try it.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 3:32 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

Hi, Mike,

One time I had to fill out a survey for Hadley School and NVDA didn't see all the different fields for typing in information so I used system access to go. With system access to go, I was able to complete the survey.

Rosemarie

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Walker, Michael E. (UMSL-Student)
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 1:11 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

Rosemarie, I am also context sensitive when it comes to screen readers. NVDA meets most of my needs. Where it does not, I use JAWS.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 12:28 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

Hi, Chris,

Yes, it appears from what I read that Gene prefers Jaws over NVDA. We all have the right to our own opinions. We should be able to agree to disagree.
After all, that's what life is all about--differing viewpoints. I used Jaws for years and both Jaws and NVDA are great programs. NVDA serves my needs very well.

Rosemarie

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Chris Shook
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2018 8:12 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

THis really has nothing to do with the current conversation, but I have to ask.
Since when did human society degrade to such a point that people cannot have different viewpoints on issues.
I happen to agree with Michael that I do like NVDA better than JAWS.
THat is not to say JAWS is a bad product. I just prefer NVDA over JAWS.
Jean, it appears that you prefer JAWS over NVDA. That's cool to. Can't we just agree to disagree?"














Re: academics and employment

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

You can also listen to Jonathan Mosens Blind Side podcasts and also his daily fibre on mushroom fm, the latter particularly has had some news on narrator.
I guess since he also does the FS podcast, he has to walk a little bit of a delicate way here!

As for what it did, well back in the previous incarnation before my last 10 machine blew up, it seemed better at many of the text reading in the various applets for configuring windows than nvda did.

Since I'm not really that bothered in windows 10 at the moment, then I cannot say if this has been maintained or not.
I think, to be honest, the problem with windows 10 is this new operating system every six months thing. I really would like there to be a bog standard version that , say was ok for some years, not a complete guess what the updated version will bust as we seem to have at the moment.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Vogel" <@britechguy>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 8:49 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment


On Sat, Aug 18, 2018 at 03:39 PM, Walker, Michael E. (UMSL-Student) wrote:


I have tried recent Narrator
Which, by the way, is about to get a big, honkin' overhaul when Version 1809 hits the streets. From what I've heard (as I don't do insider builds anymore) the command structure is being significantly modified to bring it more in line with the NVDA & JAWS worlds, but don't quote me on that.

In any case, I postponed doing any major digging in to Narrator until Version 1809 of Windows 10 comes out simply because it's been said the changes are significant and I really don't want to teach myself something much of which may become obsolete in a few short months. It certainly shows that Microsoft is not backing off on continuing development and improvement on Narrator.

For anyone who might be interested in additional details, I believe several members of the Windows 10 for Screen Reader Users group know quite a bit more about what's around the corner than I do. Send an e-mail message to win10+help@win10.groups.io to get a message back with subscription info and a lot more.

--

Brian *-* Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134

A little kindness from person to person is better than a vast love for all humankind.

~ Richard Dehmel

Re: academics and employment

Gene
 

System Access isn't nearly as powerful as NVDA but it works with web pages differently.  While this generally doesn't matter in terms of accessibility of web pages, at times it does.  So it's good to have as a resource.  But you don't have to install it.  Try System Access to Go.  As a once in awhile resource, it may be useful. 
You used to have to use System Access to Go with Internet Explorer.  I'm not sure now, though I believe that in order to use the talking feature that speaks when you open the web site, you still may. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 3:34 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

I had a problem with System Access where it totally locked up my computer when I installed it. I may have to retry. My friend keeps wanting me to try it.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 3:32 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

Hi, Mike,

One time I had to fill out a survey for Hadley School and NVDA didn't see all the different fields for typing in information so I used system access to go. With system access to go, I was able to complete the survey.

Rosemarie

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Walker, Michael E. (UMSL-Student)
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 1:11 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

Rosemarie, I am also context sensitive when it comes to screen readers. NVDA meets most of my needs. Where it does not, I use JAWS.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 12:28 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

Hi, Chris,

Yes, it appears from what I read that Gene prefers Jaws over NVDA. We all have the right to our own opinions. We should be able to agree to disagree.
After all, that's what life is all about--differing viewpoints. I used Jaws for years and both Jaws and NVDA are great programs. NVDA serves my needs very well.

Rosemarie

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Chris Shook
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2018 8:12 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

THis really has nothing to do with the current conversation, but I have to ask.
Since when did human society degrade to such a point that people cannot have different viewpoints on issues.
I happen to agree with Michael that I do like NVDA better than JAWS.
THat is not to say JAWS is a bad product. I just prefer NVDA over JAWS.
Jean, it appears that you prefer JAWS over NVDA. That's cool to. Can't we just agree to disagree?"















Re: academics and employment

Mike
 

I had a problem with System Access where it totally locked up my computer when I installed it. I may have to retry. My friend keeps wanting me to try it.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 3:32 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

Hi, Mike,

One time I had to fill out a survey for Hadley School and NVDA didn't see all the different fields for typing in information so I used system access to go. With system access to go, I was able to complete the survey.

Rosemarie

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Walker, Michael E. (UMSL-Student)
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 1:11 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

Rosemarie, I am also context sensitive when it comes to screen readers. NVDA meets most of my needs. Where it does not, I use JAWS.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 12:28 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

Hi, Chris,

Yes, it appears from what I read that Gene prefers Jaws over NVDA. We all have the right to our own opinions. We should be able to agree to disagree.
After all, that's what life is all about--differing viewpoints. I used Jaws for years and both Jaws and NVDA are great programs. NVDA serves my needs very well.

Rosemarie

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Chris Shook
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2018 8:12 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

THis really has nothing to do with the current conversation, but I have to ask.
Since when did human society degrade to such a point that people cannot have different viewpoints on issues.
I happen to agree with Michael that I do like NVDA better than JAWS.
THat is not to say JAWS is a bad product. I just prefer NVDA over JAWS.
Jean, it appears that you prefer JAWS over NVDA. That's cool to. Can't we just agree to disagree?"

Re: academics and employment

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

Hi, Mike,

One time I had to fill out a survey for Hadley School and NVDA didn't see
all the different fields for typing in information so I used system access
to go. With system access to go, I was able to complete the survey.

Rosemarie

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Walker,
Michael E. (UMSL-Student)
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 1:11 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

Rosemarie, I am also context sensitive when it comes to screen readers. NVDA
meets most of my needs. Where it does not, I use JAWS.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rosemarie
Chavarria
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 12:28 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

Hi, Chris,

Yes, it appears from what I read that Gene prefers Jaws over NVDA. We all
have the right to our own opinions. We should be able to agree to disagree.
After all, that's what life is all about--differing viewpoints. I used Jaws
for years and both Jaws and NVDA are great programs. NVDA serves my needs
very well.

Rosemarie

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Chris
Shook
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2018 8:12 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

THis really has nothing to do with the current conversation, but I have to
ask.
Since when did human society degrade to such a point that people cannot have
different viewpoints on issues.
I happen to agree with Michael that I do like NVDA better than JAWS.
THat is not to say JAWS is a bad product. I just prefer NVDA over JAWS.
Jean, it appears that you prefer JAWS over NVDA. That's cool to. Can't we
just agree to disagree?"

The Essential Video Recorder

 

Greetings everyone,

I recently downloaded from Microsoft website the Essential Video
Recorder, but I have not been able to use it with NVDA.
I pressed enter on start recording button but did not work. Other
buttons did not function, either.
Has anyone of you tried it?
I would appreciate your comments.
Nevzat

Re: academics and employment

Mike
 

Rosemarie, I am also context sensitive when it comes to screen readers. NVDA meets most of my needs. Where it does not, I use JAWS.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 12:28 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

Hi, Chris,

Yes, it appears from what I read that Gene prefers Jaws over NVDA. We all have the right to our own opinions. We should be able to agree to disagree.
After all, that's what life is all about--differing viewpoints. I used Jaws for years and both Jaws and NVDA are great programs. NVDA serves my needs very well.

Rosemarie

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Chris Shook
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2018 8:12 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

THis really has nothing to do with the current conversation, but I have to ask.
Since when did human society degrade to such a point that people cannot have different viewpoints on issues.
I happen to agree with Michael that I do like NVDA better than JAWS.
THat is not to say JAWS is a bad product. I just prefer NVDA over JAWS.
Jean, it appears that you prefer JAWS over NVDA. That's cool to. Can't we just agree to disagree?"

Re: academics and employment

 

Hi,

Yes – Narrator comes with a new modern keyboard layout that is similar in command structure to JAWS and NVDA. Note that this change is destined for Version 1809 (later this year).

There are other things that’s coming with Windows 10 Version 1809, some of which NVDA will support in 2018.3 (believe it or not, some of you are already testing this, and I sent out numerous advisories regarding this in recent weeks).

As for Win10 Forum for Screen Reader Users (owner: Joseph Lee, me), the subscription address is:

Win10+subscribe@groups.io

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 12:50 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

 

On Sat, Aug 18, 2018 at 03:39 PM, Walker, Michael E. (UMSL-Student) wrote:

I have tried recent Narrator

Which, by the way, is about to get a big, honkin' overhaul when Version 1809 hits the streets.  From what I've heard (as I don't do insider builds anymore) the command structure is being significantly modified to bring it more in line with the NVDA & JAWS worlds, but don't quote me on that.

In any case, I postponed doing any major digging in to Narrator until Version 1809 of Windows 10 comes out simply because it's been said the changes are significant and I really don't want to teach myself something much of which may become obsolete in a few short months.  It certainly shows that Microsoft is not backing off on continuing development and improvement on Narrator.

For anyone who might be interested in additional details, I believe several members of the Windows 10 for Screen Reader Users group know quite a bit more about what's around the corner than I do.  Send an e-mail message to win10+help@win10.groups.io to get a message back with subscription info and a lot more.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    A little kindness from person to person is better than a vast love for all humankind.

           ~ Richard Dehmel

 

 

Re: academics and employment

 

On Sat, Aug 18, 2018 at 03:39 PM, Walker, Michael E. (UMSL-Student) wrote:
I have tried recent Narrator
Which, by the way, is about to get a big, honkin' overhaul when Version 1809 hits the streets.  From what I've heard (as I don't do insider builds anymore) the command structure is being significantly modified to bring it more in line with the NVDA & JAWS worlds, but don't quote me on that.

In any case, I postponed doing any major digging in to Narrator until Version 1809 of Windows 10 comes out simply because it's been said the changes are significant and I really don't want to teach myself something much of which may become obsolete in a few short months.  It certainly shows that Microsoft is not backing off on continuing development and improvement on Narrator.

For anyone who might be interested in additional details, I believe several members of the Windows 10 for Screen Reader Users group know quite a bit more about what's around the corner than I do.  Send an e-mail message to win10+help@win10.groups.io to get a message back with subscription info and a lot more.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    A little kindness from person to person is better than a vast love for all humankind.

           ~ Richard Dehmel

 

 

Re: groups.io will be down for maintenance this evening, starting at 9PM Pacific Time (4AM Saturday 8/18 UTC), for about two hours.

 

On Sat, Aug 18, 2018 at 03:09 AM, Brian's Mail list account wrote:
Lets hope this is not them making changes that might affect accessibility.
No, it isn't, at least based on the response I received.

There is no winning here, really, as someone's always going to be unhappy.  I expect outages upon occasion for maintenance but I've been in the IT business for decades and they are standard operating procedure for non-mission-critical functions, and an e-mailing list/online forum can hardly be classed as mission critical.

Mark, the owner of the site, has gotten grief before for pushing out "to every member" and even "to every group owner" messages.  For myself, I firmly believe in "to every member" messages for instances such as this, so everyone knows exactly what's going on.  Others, however, disagree vehemently.

In any case, the maintenance is over and here we are. . .
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    A little kindness from person to person is better than a vast love for all humankind.

           ~ Richard Dehmel

 

 

Re: academics and employment

Mike
 

Brian, what have you found Narrator to do that other screen readers do not?

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 2:15 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

One thing that worries me about the way Microsoft are trying to develop narrator. The development is good, but they really do need to make it easier for third party readers to use what it uses. So often I hear, well Narrator can do it, but nothing else does. I suggest this is because Narrator has a lot more access to the innards of windows than a third party screenreader does, probably due to there being fewer security issues as its built in and can use hooking into things that would be a security risk if allowed outside.
I have tried recent Narrator, and although it is than it used to be, it seems often a bit clumsy and slow compared to nvda.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Walker, Michael E. (UMSL-Student)" <mewx8b@...>
To: <nvda@groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 1:30 AM
Subject: [nvda] academics and employment


Hello,

It is Mike who was talking to you all earlier about copy and paste. I am now
on my personal e-mail.

I want to clarify what was said about the copy and paste system on the web
needing to be perfected, for NVDA to be adequate for college and employment.
Let us take a moment to think about what NVDA does for us, because of the
hundreds if not thousands of man hours of development put into this. I
pulled down the source from GitHub, after talking with Joseph Lee, to gain
an appreciation of what goes into building this thing. It is incredible. I
work for the Boeing Company. That is right. It is the same company that
builds all the airplanes and Defense, Space, and security systems. I use
NVDA as my primary screen reader in Git BASH, and Visual Studio Code. NVDA
is what helped me build the Angular template for Boeing's frontend
architecture reference implementation. I only ever turn on JAWS, if I am
using something highly proprietary like Citrix.

Do I think NVDA could use some improvements that proprietary screen readers
have? Absolutely, but we must also remember the imperfections of proprietary
readers. NVDA is the best reader I have found that supports Notepad++ and
SQL Server Management Studio where JAWS repeats the lines, when I down
arrow. JAWS is also way more heavyweight, and crashes over the simplest
things. I cannot remember the last time NVDA froze.

Overall, what we need is an attitude of gratitude. NVDA is plenty suited for
education and employment, despite its imperfection and need for a bit of
improvement. Let me close out by saying use Microsoft Narrator full-time for
education and employment, or even Orca for Linux. They do not have half the
shit NVDA does.

Thank you so much for taking the time to volunteer and develop NVDA. Keep up
the great work! I will use NVDA until the day I die over JAWS.

Mighty Mike

Re: academics and employment

Mike
 

When I used JAWS with Oracle SQL Developer yesterday and had IE open to watch a getting started video, after it was over and I pressed CTRL+W to close the tab, JAWS was still running, but acted like it was sitting there. I could press ALT+TAB, and it would speak that, but not where I was. I had to press INSERT+F4 and close JAWS out. When I fired up NVDA, it worked like a charm.

 

Maybe gratitude was not the right word to use in my original message. I meant that NVDA does a hell of a lot for us, even though there is always room for improvement. Therapists are often the one that preach an attitude of gratitude. I used my Employee Assistance Program to help with depression. That is how I learned about this stuff.

 

Mike

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of erik burggraaf
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 6:49 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

 

Well, as I reported before, my experience is that nvda is more stable in work environments than Jaws. an employer reported to me that they tested both on their systems, and Jaws refuse to run on the customer-facing machines. even considering all the factors that would have to be in play, I feel pretty confident saying that nvda is more stable than Jaws. I would even say, much more stable than Jaws. if that is a put-down of an extremely expensive, highly proprietary, and somewhat unstable workplace application, I make no apologies.   if they build a better product, I will consider using it and endorsing it.  if I go into a work environment, and I need something that nvda doesn't offer, and Jaws will work in that situation, I will use it. I won't complain, even though I personally find a Jaws unwieldy to use.

Best,

Erik

On August 17, 2018 10:54:18 PM "Gene" <gsasner@...> wrote:

I am not convinced that this discription of JAWS crashing all the time is accurate as a generalization.  It is one person's experience on how many computers, one, more than one?  You can't ever generalize performance from the report of one person.  If the report is based on JAWS being used on perhaps three or four different computers then, while still not generalizable, it has a bit of a very small sample.  But I don't believe in trying to build up NVDA's reputation  by circulating messages that criticize JAWS in this way.  I have no objection to the message being sent to the list as part of a discussion.  I object to advocating that it be widely circulated.

 

And those who do believe in this strategy might consider that those who want to build up JAWS or another product can find things in NVDA to criticize. 

 

Let's consider a few important shortcomings that are especially important in employment situations.

 

You can't change how structures are interpreted in NVDA, such as telling it to read something as a list when it isn't to see if it can work with that imposed structure better.  You can't create frames.  I once set up JAWS for someone using a VPN to read the exact lines on the screen necessary to log in.  I may have done other things as well to have JAWS read specific parts of the screen automatically or by issuing a command so the person could use the program she needed with proper control and without very excessive verbiage.  You can't do that with NVDA. Someone has to write a script.  Research It was discussed, when it came out, as being able to be tailored to do something like read a proprietary data base used at a job. 

 

Loyalty to NVDA is not productive if it stifles proper critiques of what needs improvement.  No one is served.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Friday, August 17, 2018 8:27 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

 

Great endorsement!  I love this one!  Everyone please pass this message along!

 

 

Roger

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On 8/17/2018 7:30 PM, Walker, Michael E. (UMSL-Student) wrote:

Hello,

 

It is Mike who was talking to you all earlier about copy and paste. I am now on my personal e-mail.

 

I want to clarify what was said about the copy and paste system on the web needing to be perfected, for NVDA to be adequate for college and employment. Let us take a moment to think about what NVDA does for us, because of the hundreds if not thousands of man hours of development put into this. I pulled down the source from GitHub, after talking with Joseph Lee, to gain an appreciation of what goes into building this thing. It is incredible. I work for the Boeing Company. That is right. It is the same company that builds all the airplanes and Defense, Space, and security systems. I use NVDA as my primary screen reader in Git BASH, and Visual Studio Code. NVDA is what helped me build the Angular template for Boeing’s frontend architecture reference implementation. I only ever turn on JAWS, if I am using something highly proprietary like Citrix.

 

Do I think NVDA could use some improvements that proprietary screen readers have? Absolutely, but we must also remember the imperfections of proprietary readers. NVDA is the best reader I have found that supports Notepad++ and SQL Server Management Studio where JAWS repeats the lines, when I down arrow. JAWS is also way more heavyweight, and crashes over the simplest things. I cannot remember the last time NVDA froze.

 

Overall, what we need is an attitude of gratitude. NVDA is plenty suited for education and employment, despite its imperfection and need for a bit of improvement. Let me close out by saying use Microsoft Narrator full-time for education and employment, or even Orca for Linux. They do not have half the shit NVDA does.

 

Thank you so much for taking the time to volunteer and develop NVDA. Keep up the great work! I will use NVDA until the day I die over JAWS.

 

Mighty Mike

 

Re: tripple talk driver add-on for NVDA?

Dan Thompson
 

Thanks so very very much.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 1:44 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] tripple talk driver add-on for NVDA?

 

It doesn't seem to come up in google results for some reason but its here:

 

If you search the page from the top for trip, why type the whole word, you'll find it. 

The add on, as found on the page, doesn't include indexing.  there may be a way to get a version that supports indexing but evidently not on this page.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 1:29 PM

Subject: [nvda] tripple talk driver add-on for NVDA?

 

Greetings to everyone,

Is there a triple talk add-on available so I could use NVDA with my triple talk external device?

I have tried searching the web with no luck.  I might not be typing in the correct string for the search for best results.

Thanks for any help in advance..

 

Re: tripple talk driver add-on for NVDA?

Gene
 

It doesn't seem to come up in google results for some reason but its here:
 
If you search the page from the top for trip, why type the whole word, you'll find it. 
The add on, as found on the page, doesn't include indexing.  there may be a way to get a version that supports indexing but evidently not on this page.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----

Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 1:29 PM
Subject: [nvda] tripple talk driver add-on for NVDA?

Greetings to everyone,

Is there a triple talk add-on available so I could use NVDA with my triple talk external device?

I have tried searching the web with no luck.  I might not be typing in the correct string for the search for best results.

Thanks for any help in advance..

 

tripple talk driver add-on for NVDA?

Dan Thompson
 

Greetings to everyone,

Is there a triple talk add-on available so I could use NVDA with my triple talk external device?

I have tried searching the web with no luck.  I might not be typing in the correct string for the search for best results.

Thanks for any help in advance..

 

Re: academics and employment

Gene
 

Please read my message again.  I said nothing of the sort.  I have discussed what I said in other messages that you will see. 
 
As for which I prefer, for general nonwork and academic use, I prefer NVDA.  I haven't used JAWS to any extent for years. 
 
There are academic and work settings where NVDA would be fine.  There are many in which it would fall short and some of those could be corrected by user definable parameters available in JAWS, allowing someone who is not knowledgeable about writing NVDA scripts to do what is necessary.  That means that JAWS can be modified in many instances by someone far more quickly, such as a DVR employee or contractor who might go to the work site and do so.  With NVDA, the modifications would be done by someone writing a script, and even if it would be advantageous to have the person do so on the web site to see if the work meets the specific program use requirements well, the person would usually be scripting at a distance, using information about what is needed.  And time might be lost finding someone willing to write the script. 
 
Gene 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 12:28 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

Hi, Chris,

Yes, it appears from what I read that Gene prefers Jaws over NVDA. We all
have the right to our own opinions. We should be able to agree to disagree.
After all, that's what life is all about--differing viewpoints. I used Jaws
for years and both Jaws and NVDA are great programs. NVDA serves my needs
very well.

Rosemarie

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Chris
Shook
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2018 8:12 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

THis really has nothing to do with the current conversation, but I have to
ask.
Since when did human society degrade to such a point that people cannot have
different viewpoints on issues.
I happen to agree with Michael that I do like NVDA better than JAWS.
THat is not to say JAWS is a bad product. I just prefer NVDA over JAWS.
Jean, it appears that you prefer JAWS over NVDA. That's cool to. Can't we
just agree to disagree?"





Re: academics and employment

erik burggraaf <erik@...>
 

Well, as I reported before, my experience is that nvda is more stable in work environments than Jaws. an employer reported to me that they tested both on their systems, and Jaws refuse to run on the customer-facing machines. even considering all the factors that would have to be in play, I feel pretty confident saying that nvda is more stable than Jaws. I would even say, much more stable than Jaws. if that is a put-down of an extremely expensive, highly proprietary, and somewhat unstable workplace application, I make no apologies.   if they build a better product, I will consider using it and endorsing it.  if I go into a work environment, and I need something that nvda doesn't offer, and Jaws will work in that situation, I will use it. I won't complain, even though I personally find a Jaws unwieldy to use.

Best,

Erik

On August 17, 2018 10:54:18 PM "Gene" <gsasner@...> wrote:

I am not convinced that this discription of JAWS crashing all the time is accurate as a generalization.  It is one person's experience on how many computers, one, more than one?  You can't ever generalize performance from the report of one person.  If the report is based on JAWS being used on perhaps three or four different computers then, while still not generalizable, it has a bit of a very small sample.  But I don't believe in trying to build up NVDA's reputation  by circulating messages that criticize JAWS in this way.  I have no objection to the message being sent to the list as part of a discussion.  I object to advocating that it be widely circulated.
 
And those who do believe in this strategy might consider that those who want to build up JAWS or another product can find things in NVDA to criticize. 
 
Let's consider a few important shortcomings that are especially important in employment situations.
 
You can't change how structures are interpreted in NVDA, such as telling it to read something as a list when it isn't to see if it can work with that imposed structure better.  You can't create frames.  I once set up JAWS for someone using a VPN to read the exact lines on the screen necessary to log in.  I may have done other things as well to have JAWS read specific parts of the screen automatically or by issuing a command so the person could use the program she needed with proper control and without very excessive verbiage.  You can't do that with NVDA. Someone has to write a script.  Research It was discussed, when it came out, as being able to be tailored to do something like read a proprietary data base used at a job. 
 
Loyalty to NVDA is not productive if it stifles proper critiques of what needs improvement.  No one is served.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2018 8:27 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

Great endorsement!  I love this one!  Everyone please pass this message along!


Roger








On 8/17/2018 7:30 PM, Walker, Michael E. (UMSL-Student) wrote:

Hello,

 

It is Mike who was talking to you all earlier about copy and paste. I am now on my personal e-mail.

 

I want to clarify what was said about the copy and paste system on the web needing to be perfected, for NVDA to be adequate for college and employment. Let us take a moment to think about what NVDA does for us, because of the hundreds if not thousands of man hours of development put into this. I pulled down the source from GitHub, after talking with Joseph Lee, to gain an appreciation of what goes into building this thing. It is incredible. I work for the Boeing Company. That is right. It is the same company that builds all the airplanes and Defense, Space, and security systems. I use NVDA as my primary screen reader in Git BASH, and Visual Studio Code. NVDA is what helped me build the Angular template for Boeing’s frontend architecture reference implementation. I only ever turn on JAWS, if I am using something highly proprietary like Citrix.

 

Do I think NVDA could use some improvements that proprietary screen readers have? Absolutely, but we must also remember the imperfections of proprietary readers. NVDA is the best reader I have found that supports Notepad++ and SQL Server Management Studio where JAWS repeats the lines, when I down arrow. JAWS is also way more heavyweight, and crashes over the simplest things. I cannot remember the last time NVDA froze.

 

Overall, what we need is an attitude of gratitude. NVDA is plenty suited for education and employment, despite its imperfection and need for a bit of improvement. Let me close out by saying use Microsoft Narrator full-time for education and employment, or even Orca for Linux. They do not have half the shit NVDA does.

 

Thank you so much for taking the time to volunteer and develop NVDA. Keep up the great work! I will use NVDA until the day I die over JAWS.

 

Mighty Mike