Date   

Re: Spell Checking With NVDA

Quentin Christensen
 

Hi Wilco,

Assuming you are using the latest version of Office 2016, the Spell checker has actually improved quite a bit over earlier Word 2016 implementations.  In earlier versions you did need to use object navigation to get to the misspelt word.  The way it is now, you don't need to.

If you are running a corporate operating environment, they may be locked on an older build.  If that is the case, then you may need to press NVDA+numpad4 (NVDA+shift+left arrow if using laptop keyboard layout) to move to the previous object to read the misspelt word.  That works, but I'd still push for them to update if possible.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Aug 21, 2018 at 7:57 PM, Wilco <w.norman@...> wrote:

Hi,

 

I realise from a quick root around on this board that the question of how NVDA handles the spell checker in MS Word is not a new issue. I don’t want to waste anyone’s time, but since this is such a crucial issue for me I just wanted to triple check that I have understood the situation correctly.

 

We’re running Word 2016 at work at the moment. Am I right in thinking that NVDA will only read the different parts of the spell check dialogue if you navigate around using the object navigation commands?

 

With JAWS, when I go to spell check a document, JAWS will automatically say something like ‘spelling’, then announce the misspelt word, then ‘suggestions’ and then the first word in the list of suggested replacements, which is where the focus is. All this is announced automatically, without the need for any navigating around or keyboard commands. Then, if the first suggestion isn’t the one I want, I can cursor up and down and use the keyboard shortcuts for change or ignore etc.

 

It’s a really slick implementation of the spell checker dialogue because it means I can skip through a big document really quickly, and if the first suggestion is the one I want, which it is a lot of the time, I can just press C or I without the need to waste time navigating around and digging up what my options are for each spelling error, which feels massively clunky and time consuming by comparison.

 

As a professional writer, if it is correct that NVDA doesn’t offer any kind of automatic vocal feedback that summarises the spell checker dialogue as a whole, without the need to scout around using navigation keys, then this might be a deal breaker.

 

Cheers.




--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Re: Favourite add-ons

Gary Bowers
 

Thanks, Ralf. I'm anxious to try this one.

Gary

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ralf Kefferpuetz
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2018 1:46 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Favourite add-ons

Hi Gary,

It is one of my developed addons.
You can get it here:
https://github.com/Novalis7747/Outlook-enhanced/raw/master/outlook-0.9.nvda-addon

cheers,
Ralf
-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gary Bowers
Sent: Dienstag, 21. August 2018 18:30
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Favourite add-ons

Ralph - Thanks for your list. Where can I see Outlook enhanced?

Gary

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ralf Kefferpuetz
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2018 9:38 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Favourite add-ons

Hello,



My top 12 addOns are:

Application Dictionary

Golden cursor

IdentNav

Input lock

Instant translate

Notepad++

Outlook enhanced

Remote support

SentenceNav

Sonos for Sonos desktop

Speech history

Total Commander enhanced



Best regards,

Ralf



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sociohack AC
Sent: Dienstag, 21. August 2018 15:37
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Favourite add-ons



What are the most useful add-ons for you people?
--
Regards,
Sociohack


Facebook account

farhan israk
 

I'm Fahim from Dhaka Bangladesh. I use Google authenticator. I have changed phone. I have done factory reset my previous phone. I forgot to take backup. So, I'm not able to access my facebook account. How to recover it?


Re: Remote Add-on/server Issue

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I have not used it for some time, but I thought this might av been me being thick and finger trouble. Could it be some kind of loss of the synchronisation for some reason. I have uninstalled it just now, so not intending to use it much for a while.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jonathan Milam" <milamj@wfu.edu>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2018 6:47 PM
Subject: [nvda] Remote Add-on/server Issue


Hi All,

I am wondering if anyone else is seeing this. Quite often, on the majority
of the computers to which I connect, with the latest Hotfix add-on, and even
before, when I first connect, the Remote session disconnects and then
reconnects again a few seconds later. This happens maybe 4 or 5 times but
then doesn't continue after the first couple of minutes of the connection.
I know of one other person who is seeing this as well. I am seeing it both
with nvdaremote.com and my own remote server. Any ideas?

Thanks,
Jonathan


Re: Addon list

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

That is because and this will no doubt increase soon, many are going to be improved, but need to be tested. In the future when nvda moves to a later version of Python, many add ons may well stop working and one hopes that the developers will be tweaking them to work so they can be used again. See the thread about this on the add ons list. It appears I am a voice in the wilderness on this against the elitist approach.
Nuff said.


Also while we are talking add ons, that is two add ons I had no idea about. Is there a reason why these have not been submitted to the add ons approval process or is there a slight political difference of opinion here, in which case I'll belt up.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Don H" <lmddh50@adams.net>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2018 6:43 PM
Subject: [nvda] Addon list


Trying to understand the addon listing when you click on get addons under the NVDA manage addons.
There are the stable addon's and the addon's underdevelopment. I understand that concept but why are there a lot of the addon's on both lists?



Re: Favourite add-ons

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Yes I reluctantly removed clipspeak as it caused memory issues for Word and had issues with some web content as well.
I am not sure about systray list as for me that works well natively, but I keep the add on around.

Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <gsasner@ripco.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2018 3:03 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Favourite add-ons


I don't use many add ons because the way I use my computer, I don't benefit from most of them. But the two I use regularly and I consider important enough that they shouldn't be add ons is Clip Speak, which announces copy and past when you copy to and past from the clipboard, and the system tray dialog add on. The system tray dialog has been a standard part of screen-readers since Windows 2008. It should be included in NVDA itself but it isn't.

As for Clipp Speak, I don't know if there is a new version that solves these problems. the original version caused some problems in Word and it caused a problem in the Youtube downloader I use even though I wasn't directly using the add on. So, if you see strange problems you didn't have before, even if they seem unrelated to anything you would expect the add on to cause, try disabling them and see if the problem disappears.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Sociohack AC
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2018 8:37 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Favourite add-ons


What are the most useful add-ons for you people?
--
Regards,
Sociohack


Re: Favourite add-ons

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Well, for me its application dictionary, when I get sighties around, focus highlight, I do like the dumb version of the cut and paste speak add on, Resource monitor, Goldwave, Extended Winamp

Golden cursor when you get a dodgy program,

There are others I use from time to time, like 3D sound schemes. The Speech player in Espeak, Pico synth

Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Sociohack AC" <acsociopath@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2018 2:37 PM
Subject: [nvda] Favourite add-ons


What are the most useful add-ons for you people?
--
Regards,
Sociohack


Re: VLC meedia player with nvda

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Is this the old chestnut of the copyright warning which you cannot read or skip past till its been on screen for a while threatening boiling in oil if you even think about ripping out the film on it? grin.
I don't know the answer myself. DVDs seem to be actually getting worse for accessibility of late.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Caleb Neyenhuis" <calebneyenhuis@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2018 10:40 AM
Subject: [nvda] VLC meedia player with nvda


Hi all
I am trying to play a dvd with vlc meedia player
But it gets stuck at the intro whitch then means i have to press play like a normal dvd player
But it is all ready playing
Does any one know how to get to the next lpart where it plays
Thanks


Re: Favourite add-ons

Steve Nomer
 

Ralph, what a terrific addOn! Thanks so much for developing this one!


Steve


On 8/21/2018 1:43 PM, Ralf Kefferpuetz wrote:

Hi Steve,

It is one of my developed addons.

You can get it here:

https://github.com/Novalis7747/sonos/raw/master/sonos-1.1.nvda-addon

 

cheers,

  Ralf

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve Nomer
Sent: Dienstag, 21. August 2018 16:44
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Favourite add-ons

 

Ralph, where do you obtain the Sonos addOn? Thanks!

 

Steve

 

On 8/21/2018 9:37 AM, Ralf Kefferpuetz wrote:

Hello,

 

My top 12 addOns are:

Application Dictionary

Golden cursor

IdentNav

Input lock

Instant translate

Notepad++

Outlook enhanced

Remote support

SentenceNav

Sonos for Sonos desktop

Speech history

Total Commander enhanced

 

Best regards,

  Ralf

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sociohack AC
Sent: Dienstag, 21. August 2018 15:37
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Favourite add-ons

 

What are the most useful add-ons for you people?
--
Regards,
Sociohack

 



Re: Favourite add-ons

Ralf Kefferpuetz
 

Hi Gary,

It is one of my developed addons.
You can get it here:
https://github.com/Novalis7747/Outlook-enhanced/raw/master/outlook-0.9.nvda-addon

cheers,
Ralf

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gary Bowers
Sent: Dienstag, 21. August 2018 18:30
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Favourite add-ons

Ralph - Thanks for your list. Where can I see Outlook enhanced?

Gary

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ralf Kefferpuetz
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2018 9:38 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Favourite add-ons

Hello,



My top 12 addOns are:

Application Dictionary

Golden cursor

IdentNav

Input lock

Instant translate

Notepad++

Outlook enhanced

Remote support

SentenceNav

Sonos for Sonos desktop

Speech history

Total Commander enhanced



Best regards,

Ralf



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sociohack AC
Sent: Dienstag, 21. August 2018 15:37
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Favourite add-ons



What are the most useful add-ons for you people?
--
Regards,
Sociohack


Re: Favourite add-ons

Ralf Kefferpuetz
 

Hi Steve,

It is one of my developed addons.

You can get it here:

https://github.com/Novalis7747/sonos/raw/master/sonos-1.1.nvda-addon

 

cheers,

  Ralf

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve Nomer
Sent: Dienstag, 21. August 2018 16:44
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Favourite add-ons

 

Ralph, where do you obtain the Sonos addOn? Thanks!

 

Steve

 

On 8/21/2018 9:37 AM, Ralf Kefferpuetz wrote:

Hello,

 

My top 12 addOns are:

Application Dictionary

Golden cursor

IdentNav

Input lock

Instant translate

Notepad++

Outlook enhanced

Remote support

SentenceNav

Sonos for Sonos desktop

Speech history

Total Commander enhanced

 

Best regards,

  Ralf

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sociohack AC
Sent: Dienstag, 21. August 2018 15:37
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Favourite add-ons

 

What are the most useful add-ons for you people?
--
Regards,
Sociohack

 


Re: Favourite add-ons

Ralf Kefferpuetz
 

Yes, that’s the same…

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Walker, Michael E
Sent: Dienstag, 21. August 2018 16:40
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Favourite add-ons

 

Ralf, when you list Remote Support, is that the same as NVDA Remote? If not, what does Remote Support do? Thanks.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Ralf Kefferpuetz
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2018 9:38 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Favourite add-ons

 

Hello,

 

My top 12 addOns are:

Application Dictionary

Golden cursor

IdentNav

Input lock

Instant translate

Notepad++

Outlook enhanced

Remote support

SentenceNav

Sonos for Sonos desktop

Speech history

Total Commander enhanced

 

Best regards,

  Ralf

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sociohack AC
Sent: Dienstag, 21. August 2018 15:37
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Favourite add-ons

 

What are the most useful add-ons for you people?
--
Regards,
Sociohack


Remote Add-on/server Issue

Jonathan Milam
 

Hi All,

I am wondering if anyone else is seeing this. Quite often, on the majority
of the computers to which I connect, with the latest Hotfix add-on, and even
before, when I first connect, the Remote session disconnects and then
reconnects again a few seconds later. This happens maybe 4 or 5 times but
then doesn't continue after the first couple of minutes of the connection.
I know of one other person who is seeing this as well. I am seeing it both
with nvdaremote.com and my own remote server. Any ideas?

Thanks,
Jonathan


Addon list

Don H
 

Trying to understand the addon listing when you click on get addons under the NVDA manage addons.
There are the stable addon's and the addon's underdevelopment. I understand that concept but why are there a lot of the addon's on both lists?


Re: academics and employment

Mike and Jenna <schwaltze@...>
 

Okay I usually stay out of this. However I work as a taxi dispatcher and we
are kind of ould school. We use two different note pad files and if you use
nvda the lag time between switching between files with nvda is a lot slower
then using jaws. NVDA at least for me can not keep up with a high paced use
case like this.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tyler Wood
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2018 9:04 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

Hi,

Regarding jaws being more heavyweight, I urge folks to copy, paste, or
delete a file in windows explorer with NVDA and see what happens.


For someone who does this on a daily basis for work, this is by far the
biggest shortcoming. It's existed since windows 10 came into being and
still exists today.

There was someone on youtube the other day who had this exact same
problem without any provocation - blind flightsimmer is his name. Shift
tabbing from a file name edit box to try and browse the files, NVDA
remained stubbornly silent whereas jaws read the list, first try.


As far as jaws crashing goes, jaws, for me at least, has been recovering
far more reliably than NVDA. That didn't used to be the case. Ever since
I switched to chrome though NVDA and jaws have both been doing
fantastically in comparison to firefox 60.

On 20-Aug-2018 7:55 PM, Shaun Everiss wrote:
Carrot brousing was usefull in the day for the blind, it made things
more accessible.

Screenreaders were not as smart then.

It was back in 1995 it was usefull.

Not so much now, os and readers are smarter now.



On 8/21/2018 12:47 PM, Gene wrote:
These things must be tested before it is known if they are at all
useful.  Karret browsing is of no benefit to blind users.  I tested
it because I thought that was what I had seen when I tested it a long
time ago and my memory is correct.

When you turn it on, if you were in browse mode, you stay in browse
mode.  If you turn browse mode off, nothing is different from having
karret mode off.   You hear nothing or nothing meaningful when you
move using movement keys and you can't select text with shift and
arrow keys.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Cohn, Jonathan
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2018 4:54 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io ; nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment


Hello,


It is my understanding that with both IE and Firefox one can enable
the “caret browsing” functionality to allow selection of information
from the Browser rendering rather than the virtual buffer when
selecting on the web. SO, this should be another technique for
retrieving content with its formatting intact.


Best Wishes,


Jonathan Cohn


From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Walker,
Michael E. (UMSL-Student)
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2018 8:30 PM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: [nvda] academics and employment
Importance: Low


Hello,


It is Mike who was talking to you all earlier about copy and paste. I
am now on my personal e-mail.


I want to clarify what was said about the copy and paste system on
the web needing to be perfected, for NVDA to be adequate for college
and employment. Let us take a moment to think about what NVDA does
for us, because of the hundreds if not thousands of man hours of
development put into this. I pulled down the source from GitHub,
after talking with Joseph Lee, to gain an appreciation of what goes
into building this thing. It is incredible. I work for the Boeing
Company. That is right. It is the same company that builds all the
airplanes and Defense, Space, and security systems. I use NVDA as my
primary screen reader in Git BASH, and Visual Studio Code. NVDA is
what helped me build the Angular template for Boeing’s frontend
architecture reference implementation. I only ever turn on JAWS, if I
am using something highly proprietary like Citrix.


Do I think NVDA could use some improvements that proprietary screen
readers have? Absolutely, but we must also remember the imperfections
of proprietary readers. NVDA is the best reader I have found that
supports Notepad++ and SQL Server Management Studio where JAWS
repeats the lines, when I down arrow. JAWS is also way more
heavyweight, and crashes over the simplest things. I cannot remember
the last time NVDA froze.


Overall, what we need is an attitude of gratitude. NVDA is plenty
suited for education and employment, despite its imperfection and
need for a bit of improvement. Let me close out by saying use
Microsoft Narrator full-time for education and employment, or even
Orca for Linux. They do not have half the shit NVDA does.


Thank you so much for taking the time to volunteer and develop NVDA.
Keep up the great work! I will use NVDA until the day I die over JAWS.


Mighty Mike







Re: Spell Checking With NVDA

Jason White
 

The spelling checker in Microsoft Word is working well here in NVDA (latest Office 365 Windows installed version)

 

The misspelled word and original sentence are red automatically; I can then use tab to move to the suggestions. I don’t need to use object navigation at all.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Wilco
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2018 5:58 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Spell Checking With NVDA

 

Hi,

 

I realise from a quick root around on this board that the question of how NVDA handles the spell checker in MS Word is not a new issue. I don’t want to waste anyone’s time, but since this is such a crucial issue for me I just wanted to triple check that I have understood the situation correctly.

 

We’re running Word 2016 at work at the moment. Am I right in thinking that NVDA will only read the different parts of the spell check dialogue if you navigate around using the object navigation commands?

 

With JAWS, when I go to spell check a document, JAWS will automatically say something like ‘spelling’, then announce the misspelt word, then ‘suggestions’ and then the first word in the list of suggested replacements, which is where the focus is. All this is announced automatically, without the need for any navigating around or keyboard commands. Then, if the first suggestion isn’t the one I want, I can cursor up and down and use the keyboard shortcuts for change or ignore etc.

 

It’s a really slick implementation of the spell checker dialogue because it means I can skip through a big document really quickly, and if the first suggestion is the one I want, which it is a lot of the time, I can just press C or I without the need to waste time navigating around and digging up what my options are for each spelling error, which feels massively clunky and time consuming by comparison.

 

As a professional writer, if it is correct that NVDA doesn’t offer any kind of automatic vocal feedback that summarises the spell checker dialogue as a whole, without the need to scout around using navigation keys, then this might be a deal breaker.

 

Cheers.


Re: NVDA and Microsoft OneCore Voices

Ervin, Glenn
 

Those weren’t the voices I saw listed as Microsoft voices.

I could not find a way to switch off of SAPI to what some are calling one core.

Glenn

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2018 11:47 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and Microsoft OneCore Voices

 

I think those were it actually. Dave mark and saira or what ever her name is.

On 21 Aug 2018, at 8:32, Ervin, Glenn wrote:

I was setting up a friend’s Windows 10 computer, and I could not find any one-core voices.

Only the two, a male and a female, and then another female voice at the bottom, but none indicated one-core as the name, they had people names.

Glenn

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris Mullins
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2018 8:16 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and Microsoft OneCore Voices

 

Hi Kelly

Assuming you are talking about the voice rate in NVDA Settings being 100%,press Windows+i to open the Settings dialog for Windows, tab into the list of categories and press enter on “Ease of Access”.  Tab to the list of topics and arrow down to Speech and press enter.  Tab to “Additional Speech Settings and press enter.  You should find a speech rate for the OneCore voice, check it’s value between the 2 machines and adjust accordingly.

 

Cheers

Chris . 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Kelly
Sent: 17 August 2018 13:42
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] NVDA and Microsoft OneCore Voices

 

Hi,

 

Are there any known issues with NVDA and the MS OneCore voices and speech rate.  I have the same version of NVDA installed on two different computers but the top rates I’m getting with the OneCore voices are drastically different.  On one machine, the rates are similar to what you’d get if you used MS Sapi 5, very slow even at 100%.  The voices themselves are the OneCore versions though.

 

The two machines are running the latest Windows Insider build.

 

 


Re: NVDA and Microsoft OneCore Voices

Sarah k Alawami
 

I think those were it actually. Dave mark and saira or what ever her name is.

On 21 Aug 2018, at 8:32, Ervin, Glenn wrote:

I was setting up a friend’s Windows 10 computer, and I could not find any one-core voices.

Only the two, a male and a female, and then another female voice at the bottom, but none indicated one-core as the name, they had people names.

Glenn

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris Mullins
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2018 8:16 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and Microsoft OneCore Voices

 

Hi Kelly

Assuming you are talking about the voice rate in NVDA Settings being 100%,press Windows+i to open the Settings dialog for Windows, tab into the list of categories and press enter on “Ease of Access”.  Tab to the list of topics and arrow down to Speech and press enter.  Tab to “Additional Speech Settings and press enter.  You should find a speech rate for the OneCore voice, check it’s value between the 2 machines and adjust accordingly.

 

Cheers

Chris . 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Kelly
Sent: 17 August 2018 13:42
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] NVDA and Microsoft OneCore Voices

 

Hi,

 

Are there any known issues with NVDA and the MS OneCore voices and speech rate.  I have the same version of NVDA installed on two different computers but the top rates I’m getting with the OneCore voices are drastically different.  On one machine, the rates are similar to what you’d get if you used MS Sapi 5, very slow even at 100%.  The voices themselves are the OneCore versions though.

 

The two machines are running the latest Windows Insider build.

 

 


Re: academics and employment

Ervin, Glenn
 

Eloquence is the only synth I will use for myself.

Glenn

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of JM Casey
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2018 11:41 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

 

I found that once I switched back to Eloquence, JAWS crashed a lot less. It’s been performing the best I’ve ever seen since I dropped Vocalizer as my primary synth. I got tricked into liking the more human-sounding voice, but the thing is obviously a little resource-intensive and seems to cause other problems as well. Maybe people who experience a lot of JAWS crashes should consider using a less intensive synth. I have 8 GB of ram and a fairly fast multi-core processor and yet Vocalizer was clearly still causing problems for whatever reason.

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ervin, Glenn
Sent: August 21, 2018 11:32 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

 

Jaws only seems to crash a lot for me on web pages, while a page is loading mostly, and it seems only with IE, but I use IE more, so it is hard to be sure about that.

I think Jaws may crash a lot more than people realize, because now it comes back on its own, so a page will be loading, and I hear nothing for a couple minutes, and then I hear it start up with its usual start up phrase.

Glenn

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Walker, Michael E. (UMSL-Student)
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 5:09 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

 

Thank you for sharing your insights on this! They were a pleasure to read. I like to read and write a lot. I do not mind reading long messages.

 

When I generalized about JAWS, I was being informal. I should have asked the group not to take my advice as solid proof. Overall, it sounds like what we really need to do is have a large group of people reproduce the exact steps that cause JAWS to crash, and if it is consistent on that large number of machines, we need to use a debugger and log files to step through the app or site JAWS is crashing on when it happens, document it, and send that report to Freedom Scientific.

 

The conclusion I drew from what you wrote, overall, is that nothing is perfect. I use the tools that will solve the problem along the way, and suggest improvements as I go.

 

Mike

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 5:02 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

 

This message is rather long.  You may or may not want to read it all.  I hope you find it interesting and useful.

 

Others may be able to give you an answer or some sort of guide about a good sample size.  I don't have any formal answer.  Intermittent or not, if there is a performance problem on only one machine that is known, it can't be generalized to be a problem that affects a lot of or most machines without more information.  I never say the person isn't having the problem unless I know the cause and it isn't what is being claimed but off and on, when someone generalizes about a performance problem because they have it, I say that it hasn't been demonstrated that it is a general problem.

 

Recently, a member said they had the same problem on two or three computers.  Ssince the problem occurred in a very popular application and no one had reported it on any list I follow except him, I surmised and said, not as a definite conclusion, but as, what I consider to  be a likely state of affairs, that the person had done the same thing on all those machines, installed or uninstalled the same program or something, whatever it might be that caused the problem on all machines.  I use the nature of the problem, if I've seen it reported by others, and other factors, if they seem relevant, but my main point is that I see people generalize about a product by saying how terrible it is because of a performance problem on their machine and generalization can't be done. 

 

As far as the announcement of visited links is concerned, I believe that is true, that it can't be turned on or off.  But not to use a screen-reader because of one tiny behavior like that is, in my opinion, absurd. 

 

If someone is that bothered by visited link announcement, delete browsing history.  That's what visited links are determined by.  The information is stored in browsing history and turning it off will cause all links to be shown as unvisited. 

 

Second, if you tab through links, or use the letter k to move just by links, you will hear the link spoken and visited spoken afterword.  This is another example of where NVDA should be user customizable.  You should be able to turn off visited as an announcement but further, you should be able to set NVDA to announce visited before or after a link and it should be consistent no matter how you move through links. 

 

As I said yesterday, it might be a good idea to have a small group convene and consider and get input from users about how NvDA should be made more customizable.  In this respect, you also can't adjust when other controls are heard, do you want to hear button or combo box or check box, for example, before or after you hear the text announced. 

 

I haven't used System Access enough for a long time to know how it may have changed in more recent years.  Regardless, it simply is more limited than NVDA on the Internet and in general.  It wasn't developed to be a powerful screen-reader, it was intended to be powerful enough to meet less demanding users' needs at a time when there were no or no decent considerably lower price alternatives to JAWS and Window-eyes whereas NVDA is intended to be a much more powerful screen-reader

 

Take one example, the simulated mouse in System Access is much less capable.  there are times when you must use the simulated mouse to activate a link or control.  But you often can't do it using the System Access mouse, at least that is my recollection.  And talk about annoyances, the simulated mouse in System Access is programmed to make a horrible nerve-grating noise when you click it.  What were they thinking?  In my opinion, that noise is much more disgusting and annoying than hearing the word "visited" when I don't want to. 

 

On the other hand, years ago, I used one or two web sites that couldn't be used to perform their main function when other screen-readers were used.  I could use a link or control to perform an essential action that wouldn't work with another screen-reader.  Also, on this or that page, System Access would read changes that occurred on the page, not where I was working when I would take an action and that was essential because I wouldn't have known that the page had changed otherwise even if I could have read the new material.  And it would have been ridiculously inefficient to look around the page every time I guessed that it might have changed somewhere.

 

There is no one ideal screen-reader and I strongly feel that not using a screen-reader because of this or that small or tiny behavior is absurd.  Such behaviors may be annoying but it's a classic example of the cliché about a mountain out of a molehill.

 

Gene

Gene----- Original Message ---------- Original Message -----

Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 3:57 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

 

I believe in using whatever resources are at my fingertips, in any given situation. If I come across an inaccessible app at work, I am not going to have the time to program out a fix for it, plus do the programming I do as part of my job, and meet the deadline.

 

The reason my friend uses System Access and not NVDA is that he claims with NVDA, you cannot turn off the announcement of visited and unvisited links.

 

Also, Gene, you were talking about sample size and testing software earlier. What is an accurate sample size for testing an intermittent problem? When JAWS crashes on the machines I used, it is intermittent. I wish they taught us more about troubleshooting intermittent problems in school. It is a skill that I have much room for growth in.

 

Mike

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 3:51 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

 

System Access isn't nearly as powerful as NVDA but it works with web pages differently.  While this generally doesn't matter in terms of accessibility of web pages, at times it does.  So it's good to have as a resource.  But you don't have to install it.  Try System Access to Go.  As a once in awhile resource, it may be useful. 

You used to have to use System Access to Go with Internet Explorer.  I'm not sure now, though I believe that in order to use the talking feature that speaks when you open the web site, you still may. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 3:34 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

 

I had a problem with System Access where it totally locked up my computer when I installed it. I may have to retry. My friend keeps wanting me to try it.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 3:32 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

Hi, Mike,

One time I had to fill out a survey for Hadley School and NVDA didn't see all the different fields for typing in information so I used system access to go. With system access to go, I was able to complete the survey.

Rosemarie

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Walker, Michael E. (UMSL-Student)
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 1:11 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

Rosemarie, I am also context sensitive when it comes to screen readers. NVDA meets most of my needs. Where it does not, I use JAWS.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 12:28 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

Hi, Chris,

Yes, it appears from what I read that Gene prefers Jaws over NVDA. We all have the right to our own opinions. We should be able to agree to disagree.
After all, that's what life is all about--differing viewpoints. I used Jaws for years and both Jaws and NVDA are great programs. NVDA serves my needs very well.

Rosemarie

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Chris Shook
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2018 8:12 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

THis really has nothing to do with the current conversation, but I have to ask.
Since when did human society degrade to such a point that people cannot have different viewpoints on issues.
I happen to agree with Michael that I do like NVDA better than JAWS.
THat is not to say JAWS is a bad product. I just prefer NVDA over JAWS.
Jean, it appears that you prefer JAWS over NVDA. That's cool to. Can't we just agree to disagree?"













Re: academics and employment

JM Casey <crystallogic@...>
 

I found that once I switched back to Eloquence, JAWS crashed a lot less. It’s been performing the best I’ve ever seen since I dropped Vocalizer as my primary synth. I got tricked into liking the more human-sounding voice, but the thing is obviously a little resource-intensive and seems to cause other problems as well. Maybe people who experience a lot of JAWS crashes should consider using a less intensive synth. I have 8 GB of ram and a fairly fast multi-core processor and yet Vocalizer was clearly still causing problems for whatever reason.

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ervin, Glenn
Sent: August 21, 2018 11:32 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

 

Jaws only seems to crash a lot for me on web pages, while a page is loading mostly, and it seems only with IE, but I use IE more, so it is hard to be sure about that.

I think Jaws may crash a lot more than people realize, because now it comes back on its own, so a page will be loading, and I hear nothing for a couple minutes, and then I hear it start up with its usual start up phrase.

Glenn

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Walker, Michael E. (UMSL-Student)
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 5:09 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

 

Thank you for sharing your insights on this! They were a pleasure to read. I like to read and write a lot. I do not mind reading long messages.

 

When I generalized about JAWS, I was being informal. I should have asked the group not to take my advice as solid proof. Overall, it sounds like what we really need to do is have a large group of people reproduce the exact steps that cause JAWS to crash, and if it is consistent on that large number of machines, we need to use a debugger and log files to step through the app or site JAWS is crashing on when it happens, document it, and send that report to Freedom Scientific.

 

The conclusion I drew from what you wrote, overall, is that nothing is perfect. I use the tools that will solve the problem along the way, and suggest improvements as I go.

 

Mike

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 5:02 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

 

This message is rather long.  You may or may not want to read it all.  I hope you find it interesting and useful.

 

Others may be able to give you an answer or some sort of guide about a good sample size.  I don't have any formal answer.  Intermittent or not, if there is a performance problem on only one machine that is known, it can't be generalized to be a problem that affects a lot of or most machines without more information.  I never say the person isn't having the problem unless I know the cause and it isn't what is being claimed but off and on, when someone generalizes about a performance problem because they have it, I say that it hasn't been demonstrated that it is a general problem.

 

Recently, a member said they had the same problem on two or three computers.  Ssince the problem occurred in a very popular application and no one had reported it on any list I follow except him, I surmised and said, not as a definite conclusion, but as, what I consider to  be a likely state of affairs, that the person had done the same thing on all those machines, installed or uninstalled the same program or something, whatever it might be that caused the problem on all machines.  I use the nature of the problem, if I've seen it reported by others, and other factors, if they seem relevant, but my main point is that I see people generalize about a product by saying how terrible it is because of a performance problem on their machine and generalization can't be done. 

 

As far as the announcement of visited links is concerned, I believe that is true, that it can't be turned on or off.  But not to use a screen-reader because of one tiny behavior like that is, in my opinion, absurd. 

 

If someone is that bothered by visited link announcement, delete browsing history.  That's what visited links are determined by.  The information is stored in browsing history and turning it off will cause all links to be shown as unvisited. 

 

Second, if you tab through links, or use the letter k to move just by links, you will hear the link spoken and visited spoken afterword.  This is another example of where NVDA should be user customizable.  You should be able to turn off visited as an announcement but further, you should be able to set NVDA to announce visited before or after a link and it should be consistent no matter how you move through links. 

 

As I said yesterday, it might be a good idea to have a small group convene and consider and get input from users about how NvDA should be made more customizable.  In this respect, you also can't adjust when other controls are heard, do you want to hear button or combo box or check box, for example, before or after you hear the text announced. 

 

I haven't used System Access enough for a long time to know how it may have changed in more recent years.  Regardless, it simply is more limited than NVDA on the Internet and in general.  It wasn't developed to be a powerful screen-reader, it was intended to be powerful enough to meet less demanding users' needs at a time when there were no or no decent considerably lower price alternatives to JAWS and Window-eyes whereas NVDA is intended to be a much more powerful screen-reader

 

Take one example, the simulated mouse in System Access is much less capable.  there are times when you must use the simulated mouse to activate a link or control.  But you often can't do it using the System Access mouse, at least that is my recollection.  And talk about annoyances, the simulated mouse in System Access is programmed to make a horrible nerve-grating noise when you click it.  What were they thinking?  In my opinion, that noise is much more disgusting and annoying than hearing the word "visited" when I don't want to. 

 

On the other hand, years ago, I used one or two web sites that couldn't be used to perform their main function when other screen-readers were used.  I could use a link or control to perform an essential action that wouldn't work with another screen-reader.  Also, on this or that page, System Access would read changes that occurred on the page, not where I was working when I would take an action and that was essential because I wouldn't have known that the page had changed otherwise even if I could have read the new material.  And it would have been ridiculously inefficient to look around the page every time I guessed that it might have changed somewhere.

 

There is no one ideal screen-reader and I strongly feel that not using a screen-reader because of this or that small or tiny behavior is absurd.  Such behaviors may be annoying but it's a classic example of the cliché about a mountain out of a molehill.

 

Gene

Gene----- Original Message ---------- Original Message -----

Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 3:57 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

 

I believe in using whatever resources are at my fingertips, in any given situation. If I come across an inaccessible app at work, I am not going to have the time to program out a fix for it, plus do the programming I do as part of my job, and meet the deadline.

 

The reason my friend uses System Access and not NVDA is that he claims with NVDA, you cannot turn off the announcement of visited and unvisited links.

 

Also, Gene, you were talking about sample size and testing software earlier. What is an accurate sample size for testing an intermittent problem? When JAWS crashes on the machines I used, it is intermittent. I wish they taught us more about troubleshooting intermittent problems in school. It is a skill that I have much room for growth in.

 

Mike

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 3:51 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

 

System Access isn't nearly as powerful as NVDA but it works with web pages differently.  While this generally doesn't matter in terms of accessibility of web pages, at times it does.  So it's good to have as a resource.  But you don't have to install it.  Try System Access to Go.  As a once in awhile resource, it may be useful. 

You used to have to use System Access to Go with Internet Explorer.  I'm not sure now, though I believe that in order to use the talking feature that speaks when you open the web site, you still may. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 3:34 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

 

I had a problem with System Access where it totally locked up my computer when I installed it. I may have to retry. My friend keeps wanting me to try it.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 3:32 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

Hi, Mike,

One time I had to fill out a survey for Hadley School and NVDA didn't see all the different fields for typing in information so I used system access to go. With system access to go, I was able to complete the survey.

Rosemarie

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Walker, Michael E. (UMSL-Student)
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 1:11 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

Rosemarie, I am also context sensitive when it comes to screen readers. NVDA meets most of my needs. Where it does not, I use JAWS.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 12:28 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

Hi, Chris,

Yes, it appears from what I read that Gene prefers Jaws over NVDA. We all have the right to our own opinions. We should be able to agree to disagree.
After all, that's what life is all about--differing viewpoints. I used Jaws for years and both Jaws and NVDA are great programs. NVDA serves my needs very well.

Rosemarie

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Chris Shook
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2018 8:12 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

THis really has nothing to do with the current conversation, but I have to ask.
Since when did human society degrade to such a point that people cannot have different viewpoints on issues.
I happen to agree with Michael that I do like NVDA better than JAWS.
THat is not to say JAWS is a bad product. I just prefer NVDA over JAWS.
Jean, it appears that you prefer JAWS over NVDA. That's cool to. Can't we just agree to disagree?"