Date   

Re: Favourite add-ons

Ralf Kefferpuetz
 

Hi Gary,

It is one of my developed addons.
You can get it here:
https://github.com/Novalis7747/Outlook-enhanced/raw/master/outlook-0.9.nvda-addon

cheers,
Ralf

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gary Bowers
Sent: Dienstag, 21. August 2018 18:30
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Favourite add-ons

Ralph - Thanks for your list. Where can I see Outlook enhanced?

Gary

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ralf Kefferpuetz
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2018 9:38 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Favourite add-ons

Hello,



My top 12 addOns are:

Application Dictionary

Golden cursor

IdentNav

Input lock

Instant translate

Notepad++

Outlook enhanced

Remote support

SentenceNav

Sonos for Sonos desktop

Speech history

Total Commander enhanced



Best regards,

Ralf



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sociohack AC
Sent: Dienstag, 21. August 2018 15:37
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Favourite add-ons



What are the most useful add-ons for you people?
--
Regards,
Sociohack


Re: Favourite add-ons

Ralf Kefferpuetz
 

Hi Steve,

It is one of my developed addons.

You can get it here:

https://github.com/Novalis7747/sonos/raw/master/sonos-1.1.nvda-addon

 

cheers,

  Ralf

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve Nomer
Sent: Dienstag, 21. August 2018 16:44
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Favourite add-ons

 

Ralph, where do you obtain the Sonos addOn? Thanks!

 

Steve

 

On 8/21/2018 9:37 AM, Ralf Kefferpuetz wrote:

Hello,

 

My top 12 addOns are:

Application Dictionary

Golden cursor

IdentNav

Input lock

Instant translate

Notepad++

Outlook enhanced

Remote support

SentenceNav

Sonos for Sonos desktop

Speech history

Total Commander enhanced

 

Best regards,

  Ralf

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sociohack AC
Sent: Dienstag, 21. August 2018 15:37
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Favourite add-ons

 

What are the most useful add-ons for you people?
--
Regards,
Sociohack

 


Re: Favourite add-ons

Ralf Kefferpuetz
 

Yes, that’s the same…

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Walker, Michael E
Sent: Dienstag, 21. August 2018 16:40
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Favourite add-ons

 

Ralf, when you list Remote Support, is that the same as NVDA Remote? If not, what does Remote Support do? Thanks.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Ralf Kefferpuetz
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2018 9:38 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Favourite add-ons

 

Hello,

 

My top 12 addOns are:

Application Dictionary

Golden cursor

IdentNav

Input lock

Instant translate

Notepad++

Outlook enhanced

Remote support

SentenceNav

Sonos for Sonos desktop

Speech history

Total Commander enhanced

 

Best regards,

  Ralf

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sociohack AC
Sent: Dienstag, 21. August 2018 15:37
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Favourite add-ons

 

What are the most useful add-ons for you people?
--
Regards,
Sociohack


Remote Add-on/server Issue

Jonathan Milam
 

Hi All,

I am wondering if anyone else is seeing this. Quite often, on the majority
of the computers to which I connect, with the latest Hotfix add-on, and even
before, when I first connect, the Remote session disconnects and then
reconnects again a few seconds later. This happens maybe 4 or 5 times but
then doesn't continue after the first couple of minutes of the connection.
I know of one other person who is seeing this as well. I am seeing it both
with nvdaremote.com and my own remote server. Any ideas?

Thanks,
Jonathan


Addon list

Don H
 

Trying to understand the addon listing when you click on get addons under the NVDA manage addons.
There are the stable addon's and the addon's underdevelopment. I understand that concept but why are there a lot of the addon's on both lists?


Re: academics and employment

Mike and Jenna <schwaltze@...>
 

Okay I usually stay out of this. However I work as a taxi dispatcher and we
are kind of ould school. We use two different note pad files and if you use
nvda the lag time between switching between files with nvda is a lot slower
then using jaws. NVDA at least for me can not keep up with a high paced use
case like this.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tyler Wood
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2018 9:04 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

Hi,

Regarding jaws being more heavyweight, I urge folks to copy, paste, or
delete a file in windows explorer with NVDA and see what happens.


For someone who does this on a daily basis for work, this is by far the
biggest shortcoming. It's existed since windows 10 came into being and
still exists today.

There was someone on youtube the other day who had this exact same
problem without any provocation - blind flightsimmer is his name. Shift
tabbing from a file name edit box to try and browse the files, NVDA
remained stubbornly silent whereas jaws read the list, first try.


As far as jaws crashing goes, jaws, for me at least, has been recovering
far more reliably than NVDA. That didn't used to be the case. Ever since
I switched to chrome though NVDA and jaws have both been doing
fantastically in comparison to firefox 60.

On 20-Aug-2018 7:55 PM, Shaun Everiss wrote:
Carrot brousing was usefull in the day for the blind, it made things
more accessible.

Screenreaders were not as smart then.

It was back in 1995 it was usefull.

Not so much now, os and readers are smarter now.



On 8/21/2018 12:47 PM, Gene wrote:
These things must be tested before it is known if they are at all
useful.  Karret browsing is of no benefit to blind users.  I tested
it because I thought that was what I had seen when I tested it a long
time ago and my memory is correct.

When you turn it on, if you were in browse mode, you stay in browse
mode.  If you turn browse mode off, nothing is different from having
karret mode off.   You hear nothing or nothing meaningful when you
move using movement keys and you can't select text with shift and
arrow keys.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Cohn, Jonathan
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2018 4:54 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io ; nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment


Hello,


It is my understanding that with both IE and Firefox one can enable
the “caret browsing” functionality to allow selection of information
from the Browser rendering rather than the virtual buffer when
selecting on the web. SO, this should be another technique for
retrieving content with its formatting intact.


Best Wishes,


Jonathan Cohn


From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Walker,
Michael E. (UMSL-Student)
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2018 8:30 PM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: [nvda] academics and employment
Importance: Low


Hello,


It is Mike who was talking to you all earlier about copy and paste. I
am now on my personal e-mail.


I want to clarify what was said about the copy and paste system on
the web needing to be perfected, for NVDA to be adequate for college
and employment. Let us take a moment to think about what NVDA does
for us, because of the hundreds if not thousands of man hours of
development put into this. I pulled down the source from GitHub,
after talking with Joseph Lee, to gain an appreciation of what goes
into building this thing. It is incredible. I work for the Boeing
Company. That is right. It is the same company that builds all the
airplanes and Defense, Space, and security systems. I use NVDA as my
primary screen reader in Git BASH, and Visual Studio Code. NVDA is
what helped me build the Angular template for Boeing’s frontend
architecture reference implementation. I only ever turn on JAWS, if I
am using something highly proprietary like Citrix.


Do I think NVDA could use some improvements that proprietary screen
readers have? Absolutely, but we must also remember the imperfections
of proprietary readers. NVDA is the best reader I have found that
supports Notepad++ and SQL Server Management Studio where JAWS
repeats the lines, when I down arrow. JAWS is also way more
heavyweight, and crashes over the simplest things. I cannot remember
the last time NVDA froze.


Overall, what we need is an attitude of gratitude. NVDA is plenty
suited for education and employment, despite its imperfection and
need for a bit of improvement. Let me close out by saying use
Microsoft Narrator full-time for education and employment, or even
Orca for Linux. They do not have half the shit NVDA does.


Thank you so much for taking the time to volunteer and develop NVDA.
Keep up the great work! I will use NVDA until the day I die over JAWS.


Mighty Mike







Re: Spell Checking With NVDA

Jason White
 

The spelling checker in Microsoft Word is working well here in NVDA (latest Office 365 Windows installed version)

 

The misspelled word and original sentence are red automatically; I can then use tab to move to the suggestions. I don’t need to use object navigation at all.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Wilco
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2018 5:58 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Spell Checking With NVDA

 

Hi,

 

I realise from a quick root around on this board that the question of how NVDA handles the spell checker in MS Word is not a new issue. I don’t want to waste anyone’s time, but since this is such a crucial issue for me I just wanted to triple check that I have understood the situation correctly.

 

We’re running Word 2016 at work at the moment. Am I right in thinking that NVDA will only read the different parts of the spell check dialogue if you navigate around using the object navigation commands?

 

With JAWS, when I go to spell check a document, JAWS will automatically say something like ‘spelling’, then announce the misspelt word, then ‘suggestions’ and then the first word in the list of suggested replacements, which is where the focus is. All this is announced automatically, without the need for any navigating around or keyboard commands. Then, if the first suggestion isn’t the one I want, I can cursor up and down and use the keyboard shortcuts for change or ignore etc.

 

It’s a really slick implementation of the spell checker dialogue because it means I can skip through a big document really quickly, and if the first suggestion is the one I want, which it is a lot of the time, I can just press C or I without the need to waste time navigating around and digging up what my options are for each spelling error, which feels massively clunky and time consuming by comparison.

 

As a professional writer, if it is correct that NVDA doesn’t offer any kind of automatic vocal feedback that summarises the spell checker dialogue as a whole, without the need to scout around using navigation keys, then this might be a deal breaker.

 

Cheers.


Re: NVDA and Microsoft OneCore Voices

Ervin, Glenn
 

Those weren’t the voices I saw listed as Microsoft voices.

I could not find a way to switch off of SAPI to what some are calling one core.

Glenn

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2018 11:47 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and Microsoft OneCore Voices

 

I think those were it actually. Dave mark and saira or what ever her name is.

On 21 Aug 2018, at 8:32, Ervin, Glenn wrote:

I was setting up a friend’s Windows 10 computer, and I could not find any one-core voices.

Only the two, a male and a female, and then another female voice at the bottom, but none indicated one-core as the name, they had people names.

Glenn

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris Mullins
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2018 8:16 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and Microsoft OneCore Voices

 

Hi Kelly

Assuming you are talking about the voice rate in NVDA Settings being 100%,press Windows+i to open the Settings dialog for Windows, tab into the list of categories and press enter on “Ease of Access”.  Tab to the list of topics and arrow down to Speech and press enter.  Tab to “Additional Speech Settings and press enter.  You should find a speech rate for the OneCore voice, check it’s value between the 2 machines and adjust accordingly.

 

Cheers

Chris . 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Kelly
Sent: 17 August 2018 13:42
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] NVDA and Microsoft OneCore Voices

 

Hi,

 

Are there any known issues with NVDA and the MS OneCore voices and speech rate.  I have the same version of NVDA installed on two different computers but the top rates I’m getting with the OneCore voices are drastically different.  On one machine, the rates are similar to what you’d get if you used MS Sapi 5, very slow even at 100%.  The voices themselves are the OneCore versions though.

 

The two machines are running the latest Windows Insider build.

 

 


Re: NVDA and Microsoft OneCore Voices

Sarah k Alawami
 

I think those were it actually. Dave mark and saira or what ever her name is.

On 21 Aug 2018, at 8:32, Ervin, Glenn wrote:

I was setting up a friend’s Windows 10 computer, and I could not find any one-core voices.

Only the two, a male and a female, and then another female voice at the bottom, but none indicated one-core as the name, they had people names.

Glenn

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris Mullins
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2018 8:16 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and Microsoft OneCore Voices

 

Hi Kelly

Assuming you are talking about the voice rate in NVDA Settings being 100%,press Windows+i to open the Settings dialog for Windows, tab into the list of categories and press enter on “Ease of Access”.  Tab to the list of topics and arrow down to Speech and press enter.  Tab to “Additional Speech Settings and press enter.  You should find a speech rate for the OneCore voice, check it’s value between the 2 machines and adjust accordingly.

 

Cheers

Chris . 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Kelly
Sent: 17 August 2018 13:42
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] NVDA and Microsoft OneCore Voices

 

Hi,

 

Are there any known issues with NVDA and the MS OneCore voices and speech rate.  I have the same version of NVDA installed on two different computers but the top rates I’m getting with the OneCore voices are drastically different.  On one machine, the rates are similar to what you’d get if you used MS Sapi 5, very slow even at 100%.  The voices themselves are the OneCore versions though.

 

The two machines are running the latest Windows Insider build.

 

 


Re: academics and employment

Ervin, Glenn
 

Eloquence is the only synth I will use for myself.

Glenn

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of JM Casey
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2018 11:41 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

 

I found that once I switched back to Eloquence, JAWS crashed a lot less. It’s been performing the best I’ve ever seen since I dropped Vocalizer as my primary synth. I got tricked into liking the more human-sounding voice, but the thing is obviously a little resource-intensive and seems to cause other problems as well. Maybe people who experience a lot of JAWS crashes should consider using a less intensive synth. I have 8 GB of ram and a fairly fast multi-core processor and yet Vocalizer was clearly still causing problems for whatever reason.

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ervin, Glenn
Sent: August 21, 2018 11:32 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

 

Jaws only seems to crash a lot for me on web pages, while a page is loading mostly, and it seems only with IE, but I use IE more, so it is hard to be sure about that.

I think Jaws may crash a lot more than people realize, because now it comes back on its own, so a page will be loading, and I hear nothing for a couple minutes, and then I hear it start up with its usual start up phrase.

Glenn

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Walker, Michael E. (UMSL-Student)
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 5:09 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

 

Thank you for sharing your insights on this! They were a pleasure to read. I like to read and write a lot. I do not mind reading long messages.

 

When I generalized about JAWS, I was being informal. I should have asked the group not to take my advice as solid proof. Overall, it sounds like what we really need to do is have a large group of people reproduce the exact steps that cause JAWS to crash, and if it is consistent on that large number of machines, we need to use a debugger and log files to step through the app or site JAWS is crashing on when it happens, document it, and send that report to Freedom Scientific.

 

The conclusion I drew from what you wrote, overall, is that nothing is perfect. I use the tools that will solve the problem along the way, and suggest improvements as I go.

 

Mike

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 5:02 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

 

This message is rather long.  You may or may not want to read it all.  I hope you find it interesting and useful.

 

Others may be able to give you an answer or some sort of guide about a good sample size.  I don't have any formal answer.  Intermittent or not, if there is a performance problem on only one machine that is known, it can't be generalized to be a problem that affects a lot of or most machines without more information.  I never say the person isn't having the problem unless I know the cause and it isn't what is being claimed but off and on, when someone generalizes about a performance problem because they have it, I say that it hasn't been demonstrated that it is a general problem.

 

Recently, a member said they had the same problem on two or three computers.  Ssince the problem occurred in a very popular application and no one had reported it on any list I follow except him, I surmised and said, not as a definite conclusion, but as, what I consider to  be a likely state of affairs, that the person had done the same thing on all those machines, installed or uninstalled the same program or something, whatever it might be that caused the problem on all machines.  I use the nature of the problem, if I've seen it reported by others, and other factors, if they seem relevant, but my main point is that I see people generalize about a product by saying how terrible it is because of a performance problem on their machine and generalization can't be done. 

 

As far as the announcement of visited links is concerned, I believe that is true, that it can't be turned on or off.  But not to use a screen-reader because of one tiny behavior like that is, in my opinion, absurd. 

 

If someone is that bothered by visited link announcement, delete browsing history.  That's what visited links are determined by.  The information is stored in browsing history and turning it off will cause all links to be shown as unvisited. 

 

Second, if you tab through links, or use the letter k to move just by links, you will hear the link spoken and visited spoken afterword.  This is another example of where NVDA should be user customizable.  You should be able to turn off visited as an announcement but further, you should be able to set NVDA to announce visited before or after a link and it should be consistent no matter how you move through links. 

 

As I said yesterday, it might be a good idea to have a small group convene and consider and get input from users about how NvDA should be made more customizable.  In this respect, you also can't adjust when other controls are heard, do you want to hear button or combo box or check box, for example, before or after you hear the text announced. 

 

I haven't used System Access enough for a long time to know how it may have changed in more recent years.  Regardless, it simply is more limited than NVDA on the Internet and in general.  It wasn't developed to be a powerful screen-reader, it was intended to be powerful enough to meet less demanding users' needs at a time when there were no or no decent considerably lower price alternatives to JAWS and Window-eyes whereas NVDA is intended to be a much more powerful screen-reader

 

Take one example, the simulated mouse in System Access is much less capable.  there are times when you must use the simulated mouse to activate a link or control.  But you often can't do it using the System Access mouse, at least that is my recollection.  And talk about annoyances, the simulated mouse in System Access is programmed to make a horrible nerve-grating noise when you click it.  What were they thinking?  In my opinion, that noise is much more disgusting and annoying than hearing the word "visited" when I don't want to. 

 

On the other hand, years ago, I used one or two web sites that couldn't be used to perform their main function when other screen-readers were used.  I could use a link or control to perform an essential action that wouldn't work with another screen-reader.  Also, on this or that page, System Access would read changes that occurred on the page, not where I was working when I would take an action and that was essential because I wouldn't have known that the page had changed otherwise even if I could have read the new material.  And it would have been ridiculously inefficient to look around the page every time I guessed that it might have changed somewhere.

 

There is no one ideal screen-reader and I strongly feel that not using a screen-reader because of this or that small or tiny behavior is absurd.  Such behaviors may be annoying but it's a classic example of the cliché about a mountain out of a molehill.

 

Gene

Gene----- Original Message ---------- Original Message -----

Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 3:57 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

 

I believe in using whatever resources are at my fingertips, in any given situation. If I come across an inaccessible app at work, I am not going to have the time to program out a fix for it, plus do the programming I do as part of my job, and meet the deadline.

 

The reason my friend uses System Access and not NVDA is that he claims with NVDA, you cannot turn off the announcement of visited and unvisited links.

 

Also, Gene, you were talking about sample size and testing software earlier. What is an accurate sample size for testing an intermittent problem? When JAWS crashes on the machines I used, it is intermittent. I wish they taught us more about troubleshooting intermittent problems in school. It is a skill that I have much room for growth in.

 

Mike

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 3:51 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

 

System Access isn't nearly as powerful as NVDA but it works with web pages differently.  While this generally doesn't matter in terms of accessibility of web pages, at times it does.  So it's good to have as a resource.  But you don't have to install it.  Try System Access to Go.  As a once in awhile resource, it may be useful. 

You used to have to use System Access to Go with Internet Explorer.  I'm not sure now, though I believe that in order to use the talking feature that speaks when you open the web site, you still may. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 3:34 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

 

I had a problem with System Access where it totally locked up my computer when I installed it. I may have to retry. My friend keeps wanting me to try it.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 3:32 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

Hi, Mike,

One time I had to fill out a survey for Hadley School and NVDA didn't see all the different fields for typing in information so I used system access to go. With system access to go, I was able to complete the survey.

Rosemarie

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Walker, Michael E. (UMSL-Student)
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 1:11 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

Rosemarie, I am also context sensitive when it comes to screen readers. NVDA meets most of my needs. Where it does not, I use JAWS.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 12:28 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

Hi, Chris,

Yes, it appears from what I read that Gene prefers Jaws over NVDA. We all have the right to our own opinions. We should be able to agree to disagree.
After all, that's what life is all about--differing viewpoints. I used Jaws for years and both Jaws and NVDA are great programs. NVDA serves my needs very well.

Rosemarie

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Chris Shook
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2018 8:12 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

THis really has nothing to do with the current conversation, but I have to ask.
Since when did human society degrade to such a point that people cannot have different viewpoints on issues.
I happen to agree with Michael that I do like NVDA better than JAWS.
THat is not to say JAWS is a bad product. I just prefer NVDA over JAWS.
Jean, it appears that you prefer JAWS over NVDA. That's cool to. Can't we just agree to disagree?"













Re: academics and employment

JM Casey <crystallogic@...>
 

I found that once I switched back to Eloquence, JAWS crashed a lot less. It’s been performing the best I’ve ever seen since I dropped Vocalizer as my primary synth. I got tricked into liking the more human-sounding voice, but the thing is obviously a little resource-intensive and seems to cause other problems as well. Maybe people who experience a lot of JAWS crashes should consider using a less intensive synth. I have 8 GB of ram and a fairly fast multi-core processor and yet Vocalizer was clearly still causing problems for whatever reason.

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ervin, Glenn
Sent: August 21, 2018 11:32 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

 

Jaws only seems to crash a lot for me on web pages, while a page is loading mostly, and it seems only with IE, but I use IE more, so it is hard to be sure about that.

I think Jaws may crash a lot more than people realize, because now it comes back on its own, so a page will be loading, and I hear nothing for a couple minutes, and then I hear it start up with its usual start up phrase.

Glenn

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Walker, Michael E. (UMSL-Student)
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 5:09 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

 

Thank you for sharing your insights on this! They were a pleasure to read. I like to read and write a lot. I do not mind reading long messages.

 

When I generalized about JAWS, I was being informal. I should have asked the group not to take my advice as solid proof. Overall, it sounds like what we really need to do is have a large group of people reproduce the exact steps that cause JAWS to crash, and if it is consistent on that large number of machines, we need to use a debugger and log files to step through the app or site JAWS is crashing on when it happens, document it, and send that report to Freedom Scientific.

 

The conclusion I drew from what you wrote, overall, is that nothing is perfect. I use the tools that will solve the problem along the way, and suggest improvements as I go.

 

Mike

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 5:02 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

 

This message is rather long.  You may or may not want to read it all.  I hope you find it interesting and useful.

 

Others may be able to give you an answer or some sort of guide about a good sample size.  I don't have any formal answer.  Intermittent or not, if there is a performance problem on only one machine that is known, it can't be generalized to be a problem that affects a lot of or most machines without more information.  I never say the person isn't having the problem unless I know the cause and it isn't what is being claimed but off and on, when someone generalizes about a performance problem because they have it, I say that it hasn't been demonstrated that it is a general problem.

 

Recently, a member said they had the same problem on two or three computers.  Ssince the problem occurred in a very popular application and no one had reported it on any list I follow except him, I surmised and said, not as a definite conclusion, but as, what I consider to  be a likely state of affairs, that the person had done the same thing on all those machines, installed or uninstalled the same program or something, whatever it might be that caused the problem on all machines.  I use the nature of the problem, if I've seen it reported by others, and other factors, if they seem relevant, but my main point is that I see people generalize about a product by saying how terrible it is because of a performance problem on their machine and generalization can't be done. 

 

As far as the announcement of visited links is concerned, I believe that is true, that it can't be turned on or off.  But not to use a screen-reader because of one tiny behavior like that is, in my opinion, absurd. 

 

If someone is that bothered by visited link announcement, delete browsing history.  That's what visited links are determined by.  The information is stored in browsing history and turning it off will cause all links to be shown as unvisited. 

 

Second, if you tab through links, or use the letter k to move just by links, you will hear the link spoken and visited spoken afterword.  This is another example of where NVDA should be user customizable.  You should be able to turn off visited as an announcement but further, you should be able to set NVDA to announce visited before or after a link and it should be consistent no matter how you move through links. 

 

As I said yesterday, it might be a good idea to have a small group convene and consider and get input from users about how NvDA should be made more customizable.  In this respect, you also can't adjust when other controls are heard, do you want to hear button or combo box or check box, for example, before or after you hear the text announced. 

 

I haven't used System Access enough for a long time to know how it may have changed in more recent years.  Regardless, it simply is more limited than NVDA on the Internet and in general.  It wasn't developed to be a powerful screen-reader, it was intended to be powerful enough to meet less demanding users' needs at a time when there were no or no decent considerably lower price alternatives to JAWS and Window-eyes whereas NVDA is intended to be a much more powerful screen-reader

 

Take one example, the simulated mouse in System Access is much less capable.  there are times when you must use the simulated mouse to activate a link or control.  But you often can't do it using the System Access mouse, at least that is my recollection.  And talk about annoyances, the simulated mouse in System Access is programmed to make a horrible nerve-grating noise when you click it.  What were they thinking?  In my opinion, that noise is much more disgusting and annoying than hearing the word "visited" when I don't want to. 

 

On the other hand, years ago, I used one or two web sites that couldn't be used to perform their main function when other screen-readers were used.  I could use a link or control to perform an essential action that wouldn't work with another screen-reader.  Also, on this or that page, System Access would read changes that occurred on the page, not where I was working when I would take an action and that was essential because I wouldn't have known that the page had changed otherwise even if I could have read the new material.  And it would have been ridiculously inefficient to look around the page every time I guessed that it might have changed somewhere.

 

There is no one ideal screen-reader and I strongly feel that not using a screen-reader because of this or that small or tiny behavior is absurd.  Such behaviors may be annoying but it's a classic example of the cliché about a mountain out of a molehill.

 

Gene

Gene----- Original Message ---------- Original Message -----

Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 3:57 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

 

I believe in using whatever resources are at my fingertips, in any given situation. If I come across an inaccessible app at work, I am not going to have the time to program out a fix for it, plus do the programming I do as part of my job, and meet the deadline.

 

The reason my friend uses System Access and not NVDA is that he claims with NVDA, you cannot turn off the announcement of visited and unvisited links.

 

Also, Gene, you were talking about sample size and testing software earlier. What is an accurate sample size for testing an intermittent problem? When JAWS crashes on the machines I used, it is intermittent. I wish they taught us more about troubleshooting intermittent problems in school. It is a skill that I have much room for growth in.

 

Mike

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 3:51 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

 

System Access isn't nearly as powerful as NVDA but it works with web pages differently.  While this generally doesn't matter in terms of accessibility of web pages, at times it does.  So it's good to have as a resource.  But you don't have to install it.  Try System Access to Go.  As a once in awhile resource, it may be useful. 

You used to have to use System Access to Go with Internet Explorer.  I'm not sure now, though I believe that in order to use the talking feature that speaks when you open the web site, you still may. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 3:34 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

 

I had a problem with System Access where it totally locked up my computer when I installed it. I may have to retry. My friend keeps wanting me to try it.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 3:32 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

Hi, Mike,

One time I had to fill out a survey for Hadley School and NVDA didn't see all the different fields for typing in information so I used system access to go. With system access to go, I was able to complete the survey.

Rosemarie

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Walker, Michael E. (UMSL-Student)
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 1:11 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

Rosemarie, I am also context sensitive when it comes to screen readers. NVDA meets most of my needs. Where it does not, I use JAWS.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 12:28 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

Hi, Chris,

Yes, it appears from what I read that Gene prefers Jaws over NVDA. We all have the right to our own opinions. We should be able to agree to disagree.
After all, that's what life is all about--differing viewpoints. I used Jaws for years and both Jaws and NVDA are great programs. NVDA serves my needs very well.

Rosemarie

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Chris Shook
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2018 8:12 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

THis really has nothing to do with the current conversation, but I have to ask.
Since when did human society degrade to such a point that people cannot have different viewpoints on issues.
I happen to agree with Michael that I do like NVDA better than JAWS.
THat is not to say JAWS is a bad product. I just prefer NVDA over JAWS.
Jean, it appears that you prefer JAWS over NVDA. That's cool to. Can't we just agree to disagree?"














Re: Favourite add-ons

Gary Bowers
 

Ralph - Thanks for your list. Where can I see Outlook enhanced?

Gary

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ralf Kefferpuetz
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2018 9:38 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Favourite add-ons

Hello,



My top 12 addOns are:

Application Dictionary

Golden cursor

IdentNav

Input lock

Instant translate

Notepad++

Outlook enhanced

Remote support

SentenceNav

Sonos for Sonos desktop

Speech history

Total Commander enhanced



Best regards,

Ralf



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sociohack AC
Sent: Dienstag, 21. August 2018 15:37
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Favourite add-ons



What are the most useful add-ons for you people?
--
Regards,
Sociohack


Re: Query for any DJs in the group

Roger Stewart
 

Station Playlist Studio, Station Playlist Streamer and the great nvda add on for spl.  For best results, use an external mixer if possible but there is a way to do it without a mixer.

Roger












On 8/20/2018 11:28 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
Hi folks,

I had a query from someone about accessible software for DJs - they want to use a laptop both for storing music and playing back / controlling speakers etc.

So, what do (or don't) you use?  What would you recommend to someone new?

Regards

Quentin.

--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 



Re: academics and employment

Ervin, Glenn
 

I believe OpenSource to be more secure, assuming you get it from its main distribution source.

If you do a search for something open source, and it is someone sharing a program from their site, you don’t know what’s in that software, or some other sites that might be a bit more well known, but not the main software distribution site for that particular software.

So I think some folks get bad software by searching for something, and then not inspecting the source.

 

Glenn

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Felix G.
Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2018 6:20 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

 

Hi!

Personally, I find it weird how persistent the fairy tale about open source software being insecure turns out to be, especially when it comes to screen readers. Is the constitution of the United States insecure because anyone can read it? I can download it and publish my own wildly edited copy but that would not put it into effect for anyone because everyone knows where the original can be found. On the other hand, if the original were hidden from citizens but still applied in court then would that not place people at the risk of arbitrary judgment? Similarly, don't we all take enormous leaps of faith every time we use software which only a select few can inspect? I pose that a closed-source environment is the perfect hiding place for malware if it behaves inconspicuously enough. I'm not implying that any particular software contains malware. I'm just making an abstract statement following my own logic because I don't get why so many people arrive at a different conclusion. They can't all have been brainwashed. ;)

Best,

Felix

 

Walker, Michael E. (UMSL-Student) <mewx8b@...> schrieb am So., 19. Aug. 2018 um 05:55 Uhr:

Thank you for sharing this! In my humble opinion, you did an excellent job. I am a developer in my early career. I am very familiar with GitHub. Thank you for sharing, for those of us who are not.

 

Mike

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of hurrikennyandopo ...
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 9:37 PM


To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

 

hi

 

Go to the following link at https://www.nvaccess.org/files/nvda/snapshots/

there are both alfa snap shots as well as beta ones They pretty much say what the alfa ones are and the beta ones are what will go into nvda when it is released.

 

I started writing up how to report a issue to nvaccess and where to go to do it but not finished.

 

you also need to have a git hub account to report a ticket and the steps etc.

 

I was wondering if it may of been better just recording audio of where to go and what to expect  when you go to do it not sure.

 

What was written i will post below. I should really go back and finish it.

 

The basics of making a ticket for NVACCESS

 

From time to time you might need to report a bug to be fixed. Before you report the bug ask others on the list if they are getting the same results as you. NVACCESS will need as much information as possible so they can fix the problem.

Where to go to issue a bug to be fixed

 

 

If you are a user of the NVDA screen reader whether you use the next snap shot alpha code, the Master snap shot beta code or the stable version of NVDA that is released to the public, if you come across a bug it can be reported at the following web page at https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues

 

Getting a Git hub account or simply signing in

 

To report any issues to be fixed you must have a Git Hub account.  .

If you do not have a Git Hub account you will need to go to the sign up link then press the enter key. It will ask you for a user name, email address, password and once done locate the create a account button then press the space bar or enter key for it to be created.

If you already have a account it is just a matter of locating the sign in link and entering your details to log into git hub.

 

 

After you have signed into git hub

 

 

After you have signed into git hub to report an issue on your page you will have some links and buttons and headings. Do not worry about most of them. The first button is a search button, the second a create new button, the third a view profile and more button, and a sign out button. You will need to look for a new issue button this is found under the sign out button then press the enter key so a ticket can be created.

Before making a new issue you should do a search to see if a ticket has already been made. If this is the case you might be able to reply on another ticket if it matches the problems you are having.

If one can not be found then you would create a new issue.

Searching for an issue on git hub

 

 

Before you report a issue/bug report to NVACCESS you will need to do a search to see if anyone else has reported the bug. If one cannot be found then you will need to open a new issue. This is a button.

Press the ENTER key to do this.

 

A More direct link to make a ticket

 

 

If you have already signed up to git hub a more direct link to where you can make a ticket can be found at https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/new

 

You can arrow through the page to see all the sections.

 

As you go down the page you will hear the following.

This may depend if you arrow down the page or jump down by buttons. If you jump down by buttons you will hear the following. For example add header text button, add bold text button, add italic text button, insert a quote button, insert code button, add a link button, add a bulleted list button, add a numbered list button, add a task list button, insert a reply button, Directly mention a user or team, Reference an issue or pull request, browse button, submit new issue button.

In most cases you will not be Inserting  a reply to a Directly mention a user or team

Reference an issue or pull request unless you are replying to a ticket.

 

 

You may find it easier to arrow through rather than use single letter navigation keys to get all of the information.

 

Single letter navigation keys that can be used in browse mode

 

You can use B for buttons, K for links, E for edit areas and F for form fields .

 

They will need to know the following in the header text edit area what the issue is. For example

 

Under the ### Steps to reproduce:

> A list of the steps you take to demonstrate the problem.

> Example:

> 1. Open Chrome

> 2. Browse to www.google.com

> 3. Type "Hello"

> 4. Notice an error sound when enter is pressed.

 

> Please also remember to attach a zip of any files required to reproduce the issue.

 

### Expected behavior:

> Tell us what should happen.

 

### Actual behavior:

> Tell us what happens instead.

 

They will also need to know the NVDA version whether it is a next-14027,c80e529f

Snap shot, or a master snap shot with its version number. Also whether it is a portable or installed version of NVDA.

Other information

 

They may need other information such as if it was > Example: Running in a VM

 

Windows version:

> Example: Windows 10 Version 1607 Build 14393.1066

 

 

 

### Other questions:

 

Does the issue still occur after restarting your PC?

 

Have you tried any other versions of NVDA?

> Please list them and the result

 

Browse…

No files selected.

Attach files by dragging & dropping, selecting them, or pasting from the clipboard. 

 

Under this section would be where you would post your NVDA log.

 

Make sure under the general settings in NVDA it is set to Logging level: debug

 

If you are lucky some one on the list might do the ticket for you but you will need to copy and paste the log into the email as attachments are blocked on the list.

 

 

After you have filled in the information that that they require locate the submit new issue button and your ticket will be created.

Please note

 

 

For NVACCESS to try and track down any bugs to be fixed you need to have the steps to recreate the problem you are having. Make sure your Logging level: is set to debug is set under the General settings in NVDA. You can also obtain the log which it produces from the Tool.. view log section in NVDA. A log will be produced after you press the enter key on the view log menu. Press the ALT key until a menu drops down then arrow down to you hear NVDA say save log as then press the ENTER key. NVDA will default to the file name then it is a matter of tabbing until you hear a location to save the file to  as the Desk top then shift/tabbing back to the save button then pressing the enter key on the save button.

 

A much quicker way to get to your NVDA log is by pressing the NVDA key +f1key , CTRL then +letter A to select all

characters, ctrl+c to copy, & then pasting CTRL key + letter V  into a email to send. Or it's in

c:\users\username\AppData\local\temp\nvda.log, which u can just

attach. If you have to restart NVDA, then it's in

c:\users\username\appdata\local\temp\nvda-old.log.

 

You cannot add attachments to a email only paste in the contents of the log. A attachment can be posted to a ticket.

 

   

For more information on using Git Hub with a screen reader which goes beyond making a ticket please go to the following link at http://bats.fyi/2016/08/19/mastering-github-with-a-screen-reader-part-1/

 

 

Gene nz

 

 

 

 

 

On 8/19/2018 10:55 AM, Walker, Michael E. (UMSL-Student) wrote:

Where do I go to learn more about becoming an NVDA beta tester? Thanks.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of hurrikennyandopo ...
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 5:45 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

 

Hi

 

Is that not why they have people do beta testing etc in jaws etc as well to iron out stuff like that. So that would only be people who have jaws.

 

As you would already know nvaccess do have people test the alfa and beta snapshots to iron out problems before a stable is released. Some might slip through from time to time but will be fixed. Unless it can be re produced by other people the problem it might not get fixed for a while.

 

Gene nz

 

 

On 8/19/2018 10:08 AM, Walker, Michael E. (UMSL-Student) wrote:

Thank you for sharing your insights on this! They were a pleasure to read. I like to read and write a lot. I do not mind reading long messages.

 

When I generalized about JAWS, I was being informal. I should have asked the group not to take my advice as solid proof. Overall, it sounds like what we really need to do is have a large group of people reproduce the exact steps that cause JAWS to crash, and if it is consistent on that large number of machines, we need to use a debugger and log files to step through the app or site JAWS is crashing on when it happens, document it, and send that report to Freedom Scientific.

 

The conclusion I drew from what you wrote, overall, is that nothing is perfect. I use the tools that will solve the problem along the way, and suggest improvements as I go.

 

Mike

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 5:02 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

 

This message is rather long.  You may or may not want to read it all.  I hope you find it interesting and useful.

 

Others may be able to give you an answer or some sort of guide about a good sample size.  I don't have any formal answer.  Intermittent or not, if there is a performance problem on only one machine that is known, it can't be generalized to be a problem that affects a lot of or most machines without more information.  I never say the person isn't having the problem unless I know the cause and it isn't what is being claimed but off and on, when someone generalizes about a performance problem because they have it, I say that it hasn't been demonstrated that it is a general problem.

 

Recently, a member said they had the same problem on two or three computers.  Ssince the problem occurred in a very popular application and no one had reported it on any list I follow except him, I surmised and said, not as a definite conclusion, but as, what I consider to  be a likely state of affairs, that the person had done the same thing on all those machines, installed or uninstalled the same program or something, whatever it might be that caused the problem on all machines.  I use the nature of the problem, if I've seen it reported by others, and other factors, if they seem relevant, but my main point is that I see people generalize about a product by saying how terrible it is because of a performance problem on their machine and generalization can't be done. 

 

As far as the announcement of visited links is concerned, I believe that is true, that it can't be turned on or off.  But not to use a screen-reader because of one tiny behavior like that is, in my opinion, absurd. 

 

If someone is that bothered by visited link announcement, delete browsing history.  That's what visited links are determined by.  The information is stored in browsing history and turning it off will cause all links to be shown as unvisited. 

 

Second, if you tab through links, or use the letter k to move just by links, you will hear the link spoken and visited spoken afterword.  This is another example of where NVDA should be user customizable.  You should be able to turn off visited as an announcement but further, you should be able to set NVDA to announce visited before or after a link and it should be consistent no matter how you move through links. 

 

As I said yesterday, it might be a good idea to have a small group convene and consider and get input from users about how NvDA should be made more customizable.  In this respect, you also can't adjust when other controls are heard, do you want to hear button or combo box or check box, for example, before or after you hear the text announced. 

 

I haven't used System Access enough for a long time to know how it may have changed in more recent years.  Regardless, it simply is more limited than NVDA on the Internet and in general.  It wasn't developed to be a powerful screen-reader, it was intended to be powerful enough to meet less demanding users' needs at a time when there were no or no decent considerably lower price alternatives to JAWS and Window-eyes whereas NVDA is intended to be a much more powerful screen-reader

 

Take one example, the simulated mouse in System Access is much less capable.  there are times when you must use the simulated mouse to activate a link or control.  But you often can't do it using the System Access mouse, at least that is my recollection.  And talk about annoyances, the simulated mouse in System Access is programmed to make a horrible nerve-grating noise when you click it.  What were they thinking?  In my opinion, that noise is much more disgusting and annoying than hearing the word "visited" when I don't want to. 

 

On the other hand, years ago, I used one or two web sites that couldn't be used to perform their main function when other screen-readers were used.  I could use a link or control to perform an essential action that wouldn't work with another screen-reader.  Also, on this or that page, System Access would read changes that occurred on the page, not where I was working when I would take an action and that was essential because I wouldn't have known that the page had changed otherwise even if I could have read the new material.  And it would have been ridiculously inefficient to look around the page every time I guessed that it might have changed somewhere.

 

There is no one ideal screen-reader and I strongly feel that not using a screen-reader because of this or that small or tiny behavior is absurd.  Such behaviors may be annoying but it's a classic example of the cliché about a mountain out of a molehill.

 

Gene

Gene----- Original Message ---------- Original Message -----

Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 3:57 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

 

I believe in using whatever resources are at my fingertips, in any given situation. If I come across an inaccessible app at work, I am not going to have the time to program out a fix for it, plus do the programming I do as part of my job, and meet the deadline.

 

The reason my friend uses System Access and not NVDA is that he claims with NVDA, you cannot turn off the announcement of visited and unvisited links.

 

Also, Gene, you were talking about sample size and testing software earlier. What is an accurate sample size for testing an intermittent problem? When JAWS crashes on the machines I used, it is intermittent. I wish they taught us more about troubleshooting intermittent problems in school. It is a skill that I have much room for growth in.

 

Mike

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 3:51 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

 

System Access isn't nearly as powerful as NVDA but it works with web pages differently.  While this generally doesn't matter in terms of accessibility of web pages, at times it does.  So it's good to have as a resource.  But you don't have to install it.  Try System Access to Go.  As a once in awhile resource, it may be useful. 

You used to have to use System Access to Go with Internet Explorer.  I'm not sure now, though I believe that in order to use the talking feature that speaks when you open the web site, you still may. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 3:34 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

 

I had a problem with System Access where it totally locked up my computer when I installed it. I may have to retry. My friend keeps wanting me to try it.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 3:32 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

Hi, Mike,

One time I had to fill out a survey for Hadley School and NVDA didn't see all the different fields for typing in information so I used system access to go. With system access to go, I was able to complete the survey.

Rosemarie

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Walker, Michael E. (UMSL-Student)
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 1:11 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

Rosemarie, I am also context sensitive when it comes to screen readers. NVDA meets most of my needs. Where it does not, I use JAWS.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 12:28 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

Hi, Chris,

Yes, it appears from what I read that Gene prefers Jaws over NVDA. We all have the right to our own opinions. We should be able to agree to disagree.
After all, that's what life is all about--differing viewpoints. I used Jaws for years and both Jaws and NVDA are great programs. NVDA serves my needs very well.

Rosemarie

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Chris Shook
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2018 8:12 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

THis really has nothing to do with the current conversation, but I have to ask.
Since when did human society degrade to such a point that people cannot have different viewpoints on issues.
I happen to agree with Michael that I do like NVDA better than JAWS.
THat is not to say JAWS is a bad product. I just prefer NVDA over JAWS.
Jean, it appears that you prefer JAWS over NVDA. That's cool to. Can't we just agree to disagree?"














 

 


Re: academics and employment

Ervin, Glenn
 

Jaws only seems to crash a lot for me on web pages, while a page is loading mostly, and it seems only with IE, but I use IE more, so it is hard to be sure about that.

I think Jaws may crash a lot more than people realize, because now it comes back on its own, so a page will be loading, and I hear nothing for a couple minutes, and then I hear it start up with its usual start up phrase.

Glenn

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Walker, Michael E. (UMSL-Student)
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 5:09 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

 

Thank you for sharing your insights on this! They were a pleasure to read. I like to read and write a lot. I do not mind reading long messages.

 

When I generalized about JAWS, I was being informal. I should have asked the group not to take my advice as solid proof. Overall, it sounds like what we really need to do is have a large group of people reproduce the exact steps that cause JAWS to crash, and if it is consistent on that large number of machines, we need to use a debugger and log files to step through the app or site JAWS is crashing on when it happens, document it, and send that report to Freedom Scientific.

 

The conclusion I drew from what you wrote, overall, is that nothing is perfect. I use the tools that will solve the problem along the way, and suggest improvements as I go.

 

Mike

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 5:02 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

 

This message is rather long.  You may or may not want to read it all.  I hope you find it interesting and useful.

 

Others may be able to give you an answer or some sort of guide about a good sample size.  I don't have any formal answer.  Intermittent or not, if there is a performance problem on only one machine that is known, it can't be generalized to be a problem that affects a lot of or most machines without more information.  I never say the person isn't having the problem unless I know the cause and it isn't what is being claimed but off and on, when someone generalizes about a performance problem because they have it, I say that it hasn't been demonstrated that it is a general problem.

 

Recently, a member said they had the same problem on two or three computers.  Ssince the problem occurred in a very popular application and no one had reported it on any list I follow except him, I surmised and said, not as a definite conclusion, but as, what I consider to  be a likely state of affairs, that the person had done the same thing on all those machines, installed or uninstalled the same program or something, whatever it might be that caused the problem on all machines.  I use the nature of the problem, if I've seen it reported by others, and other factors, if they seem relevant, but my main point is that I see people generalize about a product by saying how terrible it is because of a performance problem on their machine and generalization can't be done. 

 

As far as the announcement of visited links is concerned, I believe that is true, that it can't be turned on or off.  But not to use a screen-reader because of one tiny behavior like that is, in my opinion, absurd. 

 

If someone is that bothered by visited link announcement, delete browsing history.  That's what visited links are determined by.  The information is stored in browsing history and turning it off will cause all links to be shown as unvisited. 

 

Second, if you tab through links, or use the letter k to move just by links, you will hear the link spoken and visited spoken afterword.  This is another example of where NVDA should be user customizable.  You should be able to turn off visited as an announcement but further, you should be able to set NVDA to announce visited before or after a link and it should be consistent no matter how you move through links. 

 

As I said yesterday, it might be a good idea to have a small group convene and consider and get input from users about how NvDA should be made more customizable.  In this respect, you also can't adjust when other controls are heard, do you want to hear button or combo box or check box, for example, before or after you hear the text announced. 

 

I haven't used System Access enough for a long time to know how it may have changed in more recent years.  Regardless, it simply is more limited than NVDA on the Internet and in general.  It wasn't developed to be a powerful screen-reader, it was intended to be powerful enough to meet less demanding users' needs at a time when there were no or no decent considerably lower price alternatives to JAWS and Window-eyes whereas NVDA is intended to be a much more powerful screen-reader

 

Take one example, the simulated mouse in System Access is much less capable.  there are times when you must use the simulated mouse to activate a link or control.  But you often can't do it using the System Access mouse, at least that is my recollection.  And talk about annoyances, the simulated mouse in System Access is programmed to make a horrible nerve-grating noise when you click it.  What were they thinking?  In my opinion, that noise is much more disgusting and annoying than hearing the word "visited" when I don't want to. 

 

On the other hand, years ago, I used one or two web sites that couldn't be used to perform their main function when other screen-readers were used.  I could use a link or control to perform an essential action that wouldn't work with another screen-reader.  Also, on this or that page, System Access would read changes that occurred on the page, not where I was working when I would take an action and that was essential because I wouldn't have known that the page had changed otherwise even if I could have read the new material.  And it would have been ridiculously inefficient to look around the page every time I guessed that it might have changed somewhere.

 

There is no one ideal screen-reader and I strongly feel that not using a screen-reader because of this or that small or tiny behavior is absurd.  Such behaviors may be annoying but it's a classic example of the cliché about a mountain out of a molehill.

 

Gene

Gene----- Original Message ---------- Original Message -----

Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 3:57 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

 

I believe in using whatever resources are at my fingertips, in any given situation. If I come across an inaccessible app at work, I am not going to have the time to program out a fix for it, plus do the programming I do as part of my job, and meet the deadline.

 

The reason my friend uses System Access and not NVDA is that he claims with NVDA, you cannot turn off the announcement of visited and unvisited links.

 

Also, Gene, you were talking about sample size and testing software earlier. What is an accurate sample size for testing an intermittent problem? When JAWS crashes on the machines I used, it is intermittent. I wish they taught us more about troubleshooting intermittent problems in school. It is a skill that I have much room for growth in.

 

Mike

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 3:51 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

 

System Access isn't nearly as powerful as NVDA but it works with web pages differently.  While this generally doesn't matter in terms of accessibility of web pages, at times it does.  So it's good to have as a resource.  But you don't have to install it.  Try System Access to Go.  As a once in awhile resource, it may be useful. 

You used to have to use System Access to Go with Internet Explorer.  I'm not sure now, though I believe that in order to use the talking feature that speaks when you open the web site, you still may. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 3:34 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

 

I had a problem with System Access where it totally locked up my computer when I installed it. I may have to retry. My friend keeps wanting me to try it.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 3:32 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

Hi, Mike,

One time I had to fill out a survey for Hadley School and NVDA didn't see all the different fields for typing in information so I used system access to go. With system access to go, I was able to complete the survey.

Rosemarie

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Walker, Michael E. (UMSL-Student)
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 1:11 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

Rosemarie, I am also context sensitive when it comes to screen readers. NVDA meets most of my needs. Where it does not, I use JAWS.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 12:28 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

Hi, Chris,

Yes, it appears from what I read that Gene prefers Jaws over NVDA. We all have the right to our own opinions. We should be able to agree to disagree.
After all, that's what life is all about--differing viewpoints. I used Jaws for years and both Jaws and NVDA are great programs. NVDA serves my needs very well.

Rosemarie

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Chris Shook
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2018 8:12 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

THis really has nothing to do with the current conversation, but I have to ask.
Since when did human society degrade to such a point that people cannot have different viewpoints on issues.
I happen to agree with Michael that I do like NVDA better than JAWS.
THat is not to say JAWS is a bad product. I just prefer NVDA over JAWS.
Jean, it appears that you prefer JAWS over NVDA. That's cool to. Can't we just agree to disagree?"















Re: NVDA and Microsoft OneCore Voices

Ervin, Glenn
 

I was setting up a friend’s Windows 10 computer, and I could not find any one-core voices.

Only the two, a male and a female, and then another female voice at the bottom, but none indicated one-core as the name, they had people names.

Glenn

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris Mullins
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2018 8:16 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and Microsoft OneCore Voices

 

Hi Kelly

Assuming you are talking about the voice rate in NVDA Settings being 100%,press Windows+i to open the Settings dialog for Windows, tab into the list of categories and press enter on “Ease of Access”.  Tab to the list of topics and arrow down to Speech and press enter.  Tab to “Additional Speech Settings and press enter.  You should find a speech rate for the OneCore voice, check it’s value between the 2 machines and adjust accordingly.

 

Cheers

Chris . 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Kelly
Sent: 17 August 2018 13:42
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] NVDA and Microsoft OneCore Voices

 

Hi,

 

Are there any known issues with NVDA and the MS OneCore voices and speech rate.  I have the same version of NVDA installed on two different computers but the top rates I’m getting with the OneCore voices are drastically different.  On one machine, the rates are similar to what you’d get if you used MS Sapi 5, very slow even at 100%.  The voices themselves are the OneCore versions though.

 

The two machines are running the latest Windows Insider build.

 

 


Re: Favourite add-ons

Steve Nomer
 

Ralph, where do you obtain the Sonos addOn? Thanks!


Steve


On 8/21/2018 9:37 AM, Ralf Kefferpuetz wrote:

Hello,

 

My top 12 addOns are:

Application Dictionary

Golden cursor

IdentNav

Input lock

Instant translate

Notepad++

Outlook enhanced

Remote support

SentenceNav

Sonos for Sonos desktop

Speech history

Total Commander enhanced

 

Best regards,

  Ralf

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sociohack AC
Sent: Dienstag, 21. August 2018 15:37
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Favourite add-ons

 

What are the most useful add-ons for you people?
--
Regards,
Sociohack



Re: Favourite add-ons

Walker, Michael E
 

Ralf, when you list Remote Support, is that the same as NVDA Remote? If not, what does Remote Support do? Thanks.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Ralf Kefferpuetz
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2018 9:38 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Favourite add-ons

 

Hello,

 

My top 12 addOns are:

Application Dictionary

Golden cursor

IdentNav

Input lock

Instant translate

Notepad++

Outlook enhanced

Remote support

SentenceNav

Sonos for Sonos desktop

Speech history

Total Commander enhanced

 

Best regards,

  Ralf

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sociohack AC
Sent: Dienstag, 21. August 2018 15:37
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Favourite add-ons

 

What are the most useful add-ons for you people?
--
Regards,
Sociohack


Re: Favourite add-ons

Ralf Kefferpuetz
 

Hello,

 

My top 12 addOns are:

Application Dictionary

Golden cursor

IdentNav

Input lock

Instant translate

Notepad++

Outlook enhanced

Remote support

SentenceNav

Sonos for Sonos desktop

Speech history

Total Commander enhanced

 

Best regards,

  Ralf

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sociohack AC
Sent: Dienstag, 21. August 2018 15:37
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Favourite add-ons

 

What are the most useful add-ons for you people?
--
Regards,
Sociohack


Re: Favourite add-ons

Gene
 

I don't use many add ons because the way I use my computer, I don't benefit from most of them.  But the two I use regularly and I consider important enough that they shouldn't be add ons is Clip Speak, which announces copy and past when you copy to and past from the clipboard, and the system tray dialog add on.  The system tray dialog has been a standard part of screen-readers since Windows 2008.  It should be included in NVDA itself but it isn't.
 
As for Clipp Speak, I don't know if there is a new version that solves these problems.  the original version caused some problems in Word and it caused a problem in the Youtube downloader I use even though I wasn't directly using the add on.  So, if you see strange problems you didn't have before, even if they seem unrelated to anything you would expect the add on to cause, try disabling them and see if the problem disappears.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2018 8:37 AM
Subject: [nvda] Favourite add-ons

What are the most useful add-ons for you people?
--
Regards,
Sociohack