Date   

Windows 10 and email

Kwork
 

I imagine I'll get more than one opinion here, but what do people use in Windows 10 for email? Other questions would include, accessible out of the box, and if not, what needs to happen, additional tweaks, apps, etc. Thanks for any help!


Re: strange stuff happening with the latest version of NVDA and Windows 1803

Annette Moore
 

Nope, System Access. I haven't used JAWS in years.

Annette


On 8/22/2018 11:01 PM, Gene wrote:
I assume you are talking about JAWS.  You should be able to restart JAWS if you don't have it displayed in the system tray and have it displayed as a window in the tab order.  You can move into that window and close JAWS with alt f4. 
 
There may be a way to close JAWS while running it from the system tray but I don't know it.  Others may.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2018 7:39 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] strange stuff happening with the latest version of NVDA and Windows 1803

Hi, Tony. It's a pain in the rear, but try restarting NVDA when you
encounter treeview lists that won't read. it happens with me in
Explorer. when I restart NVDA, it usually corrects the issue--at least
for a while anyway. Maximizing the window will also tell you on what
item your cursor is placed, but again, it's a pain to arrow through and
keep hitting alt+space, then x and reading the current line.
Alternatively, close all of your Explorer windows and reopen them. Or go
do something else for about five minutes and then return to your PC. If
you get too frustrated, try another screen reader. These are the things
I've done to deal with this problem. I keep hoping with each Windows
update or NVDA update that the issue will be corrected, but so far it
hasn't been. It isn't a deal breaker. there's something in another
screen reader that drives me even more bonkers, and that's how the
insert key randomly stops working. At least it doesn't do that in NVDA.
I can live with the treeview lists not reading because I can always
restart NVDA, but when the insert key quits working, I can't restart the
other screen reader because that's one of the keys used to restart it.
Anyway, I hope this is somewhat helpful for you. Take care.

Annette


On 8/22/2018 6:55 PM, Tony Ballou wrote:
> Howdy Folks,
>
>
> Not sure where to pinpoint this issue, but here's the deal.
>
>
> When I try to read the list of files in my folders, NVDA simply will say
> tree view and not tell me any of the folder contents.  It also doesn't
> speak when I arrow through the list.
>
>
> Another thing that also happens is that windows will say task switching
> when I try to press alt-tab to move around the screen.  To get things to
> properly function, I have to press the space bar to get it to tell me
> what window I'm on. Another thing that happens is that I have to use the
> f10 function key to navigate to the menus, because the alt key doesn't
> work.   Does anyone have any ideas about this strange behavior.  I've
> got the latest version of NVDA and windows 1803.  Thanks in advance.
>
>
> Tony
>
>
>
>





Re: strange stuff happening with the latest version of NVDA and Windows 1803

Annette Moore
 

*nods* Yep, exactly, Tony! that's precisely how it works with me. After about five minutes, all is well again for a time. It's horrible with Dropbox, especially when I've copied and pasted something somewhere. Then I do just go ahead and restart NVDA.

Annette

On 8/22/2018 10:08 PM, Tony Ballou wrote:
Hi Annette,


Thanks, I know I'm not alone now.  I've done all of the tricks in the
arsenal that you mentioned and I still find myself playing the game, of
where's the file,and why can't ya read it sighs. This is totally weird.
Hope we can find some solution for this madness.  If even does it with
the Microsoft Narrator also. And when it works properly, it only does it
for about 5 minutes.


Tony


On 8/22/2018 8:39 PM, Annette Moore wrote:
Hi, Tony. It's a pain in the rear, but try restarting NVDA when you
encounter treeview lists that won't read. it happens with me in
Explorer. when I restart NVDA, it usually corrects the issue--at least
for a while anyway. Maximizing the window will also tell you on what
item your cursor is placed, but again, it's a pain to arrow through
and keep hitting alt+space, then x and reading the current line.
Alternatively, close all of your Explorer windows and reopen them. Or
go do something else for about five minutes and then return to your
PC. If you get too frustrated, try another screen reader. These are
the things I've done to deal with this problem. I keep hoping with
each Windows update or NVDA update that the issue will be corrected,
but so far it hasn't been. It isn't a deal breaker. there's something
in another screen reader that drives me even more bonkers, and that's
how the insert key randomly stops working. At least it doesn't do that
in NVDA. I can live with the treeview lists not reading because I can
always restart NVDA, but when the insert key quits working, I can't
restart the other screen reader because that's one of the keys used to
restart it. Anyway, I hope this is somewhat helpful for you. Take care.

Annette


On 8/22/2018 6:55 PM, Tony Ballou wrote:
Howdy Folks,


Not sure where to pinpoint this issue, but here's the deal.


When I try to read the list of files in my folders, NVDA simply will say
tree view and not tell me any of the folder contents.  It also doesn't
speak when I arrow through the list.


Another thing that also happens is that windows will say task switching
when I try to press alt-tab to move around the screen.  To get things to
properly function, I have to press the space bar to get it to tell me
what window I'm on. Another thing that happens is that I have to use the
f10 function key to navigate to the menus, because the alt key doesn't
work.   Does anyone have any ideas about this strange behavior. I've
got the latest version of NVDA and windows 1803.  Thanks in advance.


Tony





I am having to refresh the buffer a lot more than usual

 

Hello listers. I am using Firefox 61.0.2, along with the most recent NVDA alpha release. I’ll do my best to describe what is going on, as I see it.

 

I’ll go to www.google.com, and do a search. I expect that any results will show up after pressing enter when typing of my query is complete. Sometimes, this will happen. Other times, I see no headings. However, when I press nvda+f5, everything shows as expected. I’ll work to isolate this more specifically. Has anyone else had any issues such as this?


Re: academics and employment

Gene
 

Perhaps you should have the option to make a case for the screen-reader you want but not everything in life that flows from having a disability confers a right.  The employer has the right under law to accommodate disabled workers as he/she sees fit if the accomodation is effective.  The law will never give the employee the right to dictate to an employer how he runs his business. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: brian
Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2018 9:44 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

    I do think that we should have the right to use the screen reader
of our choice on a job.  No imployer should have a right to tell us what
screen reader we will use.   We may have to use both jaws and nvda to be
as productive as we possible as we can be.  I do prefer nvda when I had
jaws 10 I did not care for it as much as I do nvda.  My friend prefers
jaws to nvda but he will use nvda when it does things that jaws doesn't
read.  It seems that if we ever say anything like this needs to be
improved we are being critical and that we don't appreciate the work
that is done for us.  Thats just not true at all we are not bashing in
anyway but in everything there is always room for improving but if we
dare to state this then we get bashed on lists.  There is nothing wrong
with using both jaws and nvda just like there is nothing wrong with
using more than one internet brouser.  We use what ever works when we
need it and that may change over time so it's good to be very flexable
and be willing to conciter all of your options.  A jaws user may
conciter using nvda and a nvda user might conciter using jaws when it
might be necessary to do so.  This does not mean that you are changing
your screen reader you are just using annother tool to get the job
doneand thats all it is.  some people seem to make it sound like the
oposite screen reader of theirs is almost usless because it is not the
one they use.  If either really was almost usless it might be arround. 
I know that of basic pc users just can't justify the high price of jaws
but that does not mean that they don't think that jaws ins is a bad
screen reader they just don't need all of the bells and whistles of
jaws.  The fact that we can't make payments on jaws is a big deal
breaker for many blind people and nvda is free.  They also feel after
nvda is free so if it does not read everything it's free anyway so I
will read what I can and I won't wory about what I can't read.

Brian Sackrider


On 8/18/2018 1:28 AM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:
> Hi, Chris,
>
> Yes, it appears from what I read that Gene prefers Jaws over NVDA. We all
> have the right to our own opinions. We should be able to agree to disagree.
> After all, that's what life is all about--differing viewpoints. I used Jaws
> for years and both Jaws and NVDA are great programs. NVDA serves my needs
> very well.
>
> Rosemarie
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Chris
> Shook
> Sent: Friday, August 17, 2018 8:12 PM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment
>
> THis really has nothing to do with the current conversation, but I have to
> ask.
> Since when did human society degrade to such a point that people cannot have
> different viewpoints on issues.
> I happen to agree with Michael that I do like NVDA better than JAWS.
> THat is not to say JAWS is a bad product. I just prefer NVDA over JAWS.
> Jean, it appears that you prefer JAWS over NVDA. That's cool to. Can't we
> just agree to disagree?"
>
>
>
>
>
>




Re: strange stuff happening with the latest version of NVDA and Windows 1803

Gene
 

I assume you are talking about JAWS.  You should be able to restart JAWS if you don't have it displayed in the system tray and have it displayed as a window in the tab order.  You can move into that window and close JAWS with alt f4. 
 
There may be a way to close JAWS while running it from the system tray but I don't know it.  Others may.
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2018 7:39 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] strange stuff happening with the latest version of NVDA and Windows 1803

Hi, Tony. It's a pain in the rear, but try restarting NVDA when you
encounter treeview lists that won't read. it happens with me in
Explorer. when I restart NVDA, it usually corrects the issue--at least
for a while anyway. Maximizing the window will also tell you on what
item your cursor is placed, but again, it's a pain to arrow through and
keep hitting alt+space, then x and reading the current line.
Alternatively, close all of your Explorer windows and reopen them. Or go
do something else for about five minutes and then return to your PC. If
you get too frustrated, try another screen reader. These are the things
I've done to deal with this problem. I keep hoping with each Windows
update or NVDA update that the issue will be corrected, but so far it
hasn't been. It isn't a deal breaker. there's something in another
screen reader that drives me even more bonkers, and that's how the
insert key randomly stops working. At least it doesn't do that in NVDA.
I can live with the treeview lists not reading because I can always
restart NVDA, but when the insert key quits working, I can't restart the
other screen reader because that's one of the keys used to restart it.
Anyway, I hope this is somewhat helpful for you. Take care.

Annette


On 8/22/2018 6:55 PM, Tony Ballou wrote:
> Howdy Folks,
>
>
> Not sure where to pinpoint this issue, but here's the deal.
>
>
> When I try to read the list of files in my folders, NVDA simply will say
> tree view and not tell me any of the folder contents.  It also doesn't
> speak when I arrow through the list.
>
>
> Another thing that also happens is that windows will say task switching
> when I try to press alt-tab to move around the screen.  To get things to
> properly function, I have to press the space bar to get it to tell me
> what window I'm on. Another thing that happens is that I have to use the
> f10 function key to navigate to the menus, because the alt key doesn't
> work.   Does anyone have any ideas about this strange behavior.  I've
> got the latest version of NVDA and windows 1803.  Thanks in advance.
>
>
> Tony
>
>
>
>




Re: strange stuff happening with the latest version of NVDA and Windows 1803

Tony Ballou
 

Hi Annette,


Thanks, I know I'm not alone now.  I've done all of the tricks in the
arsenal that you mentioned and I still find myself playing the game, of
where's the file,and why can't ya read it sighs. This is totally weird. 
Hope we can find some solution for this madness.  If even does it with
the Microsoft Narrator also. And when it works properly, it only does it
for about 5 minutes.


Tony

On 8/22/2018 8:39 PM, Annette Moore wrote:
Hi, Tony. It's a pain in the rear, but try restarting NVDA when you
encounter treeview lists that won't read. it happens with me in
Explorer. when I restart NVDA, it usually corrects the issue--at least
for a while anyway. Maximizing the window will also tell you on what
item your cursor is placed, but again, it's a pain to arrow through
and keep hitting alt+space, then x and reading the current line.
Alternatively, close all of your Explorer windows and reopen them. Or
go do something else for about five minutes and then return to your
PC. If you get too frustrated, try another screen reader. These are
the things I've done to deal with this problem. I keep hoping with
each Windows update or NVDA update that the issue will be corrected,
but so far it hasn't been. It isn't a deal breaker. there's something
in another screen reader that drives me even more bonkers, and that's
how the insert key randomly stops working. At least it doesn't do that
in NVDA. I can live with the treeview lists not reading because I can
always restart NVDA, but when the insert key quits working, I can't
restart the other screen reader because that's one of the keys used to
restart it. Anyway, I hope this is somewhat helpful for you. Take care.

Annette


On 8/22/2018 6:55 PM, Tony Ballou wrote:
Howdy Folks,


Not sure where to pinpoint this issue, but here's the deal.


When I try to read the list of files in my folders, NVDA simply will say
tree view and not tell me any of the folder contents.  It also doesn't
speak when I arrow through the list.


Another thing that also happens is that windows will say task switching
when I try to press alt-tab to move around the screen.  To get things to
properly function, I have to press the space bar to get it to tell me
what window I'm on. Another thing that happens is that I have to use the
f10 function key to navigate to the menus, because the alt key doesn't
work.   Does anyone have any ideas about this strange behavior. I've
got the latest version of NVDA and windows 1803.  Thanks in advance.


Tony






Re: academics and employment

brian <sackriderbrian45@...>
 

I do think that we should have the right to use the screen reader of our choice on a job.  No imployer should have a right to tell us what screen reader we will use.   We may have to use both jaws and nvda to be as productive as we possible as we can be.  I do prefer nvda when I had jaws 10 I did not care for it as much as I do nvda.  My friend prefers jaws to nvda but he will use nvda when it does things that jaws doesn't read.  It seems that if we ever say anything like this needs to be improved we are being critical and that we don't appreciate the work that is done for us.  Thats just not true at all we are not bashing in anyway but in everything there is always room for improving but if we dare to state this then we get bashed on lists.  There is nothing wrong with using both jaws and nvda just like there is nothing wrong with using more than one internet brouser.  We use what ever works when we need it and that may change over time so it's good to be very flexable and be willing to conciter all of your options.  A jaws user may conciter using nvda and a nvda user might conciter using jaws when it might be necessary to do so.  This does not mean that you are changing your screen reader you are just using annother tool to get the job doneand thats all it is.  some people seem to make it sound like the oposite screen reader of theirs is almost usless because it is not the one they use.  If either really was almost usless it might be arround.  I know that of basic pc users just can't justify the high price of jaws but that does not mean that they don't think that jaws ins is a bad screen reader they just don't need all of the bells and whistles of jaws.  The fact that we can't make payments on jaws is a big deal breaker for many blind people and nvda is free.  They also feel after nvda is free so if it does not read everything it's free anyway so I will read what I can and I won't wory about what I can't read.

Brian Sackrider

On 8/18/2018 1:28 AM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:
Hi, Chris,

Yes, it appears from what I read that Gene prefers Jaws over NVDA. We all
have the right to our own opinions. We should be able to agree to disagree.
After all, that's what life is all about--differing viewpoints. I used Jaws
for years and both Jaws and NVDA are great programs. NVDA serves my needs
very well.

Rosemarie

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Chris
Shook
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2018 8:12 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

THis really has nothing to do with the current conversation, but I have to
ask.
Since when did human society degrade to such a point that people cannot have
different viewpoints on issues.
I happen to agree with Michael that I do like NVDA better than JAWS.
THat is not to say JAWS is a bad product. I just prefer NVDA over JAWS.
Jean, it appears that you prefer JAWS over NVDA. That's cool to. Can't we
just agree to disagree?"





Re: regular expression and speech dic

 

William,

          Your problem is that the "lv" matches those two characters exactly, but "(^a-z)" captures ONE character that is not lower case a through lower case z.

           If you want something of the form "lv12" pronounced as "level 12" you would use the regular expression:   lv([0-9]+)
and the substitution would be:   level \2

           The regular expression I gave says, "Match the characters 'lv' literally, then match one or more repetitions of the numeric digit characters, saving them for later use, which is what the parentheses around that part of the expression does.   Since you know the "lv" is to be pronounced "level," there's no need to capture it for later use, but you need the digit sequence, whatever it may be, to be spoken later, and the parentheses allow it to be referred to later, as a unit as "\2" [the second match, where "lv" was the first match, but not saved because there were no parentheses around it].

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    A little kindness from person to person is better than a vast love for all humankind.

           ~ Richard Dehmel

 

 


Re: Favourite add-ons

 

<grin>

At least none of us use mainframes round here.

An interesting fact to note is that the first computer bugs were just real bugs that flew into and damaged the computers.

On 8/23/2018 10:32 AM, Antony Stone wrote:
How often do you get moths around your computer :) ?

Antony.

On Thursday 23 August 2018 at 00:23:33, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

Mine are the sound add on, and that’s about it. I have remote nvda
installed but I have not checked for updates in about 3-4 moths.


Re: how to force nvda not to anounce XX as twenty, LV as fifty five, etc

Mr. Wong Chi Wai, William <cwwong.pro@...>
 

Quentin.,
Ok, I am trying out what you have suggested, thanks.


Quentin Christensen 於 21/8/2018 7:59 寫道:

That is done by the synth itself.

You can use the speech dictionary to override it.  So if you want IV to be read as "I", "V" rather than 4, add a new entry and in the pattern to match, type "iv"; in the replacement field, type "i v" (put a space in between the letters, don't use quotes), and select the "Whole word" radio button.

Of course you would have to do the same for each potential combination, but if there are several which you encounter regularly then it could be worthwhile for those at least.

Regards

Quentin.

On Mon, Aug 20, 2018 at 8:32 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists@...> wrote:
Which synth are you using. I've not been able to stop it in Espeak.
Its really irritating as we have an organisation here called VI Parliament which gets said as Roman 6 Parliament!

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Mr. Wong Chi Wai, William" <cwwong.pro@...>
To: "NVDA Groups.io mailing list email" <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2018 10:02 AM
Subject: [nvda] how to force nvda not to anounce XX as twenty, LV as fifty five, etc


Hi,
whenever NVDA come across something as LV CD XX XXX XXX etc will processed as numbers where I want to stop such process, how would I be able to do that?

Thanks,
William










--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 



regular expression and speech dic

Mr. Wong Chi Wai, William <cwwong.pro@...>
 

Hi,
I have the following problem with speech dictionary.
I created a speech dic entry with the regular expression rule "lv(^a-z)" and replace with a speech of "level".

it turn out that if there is something like lv12, it will say level 2 but not level 12.
Would anyone advice me of what am I doing wrong here?
Thanks.
William


Re: strange stuff happening with the latest version of NVDA and Windows 1803

Annette Moore
 

Hi, Tony. It's a pain in the rear, but try restarting NVDA when you encounter treeview lists that won't read. it happens with me in Explorer. when I restart NVDA, it usually corrects the issue--at least for a while anyway. Maximizing the window will also tell you on what item your cursor is placed, but again, it's a pain to arrow through and keep hitting alt+space, then x and reading the current line. Alternatively, close all of your Explorer windows and reopen them. Or go do something else for about five minutes and then return to your PC. If you get too frustrated, try another screen reader. These are the things I've done to deal with this problem. I keep hoping with each Windows update or NVDA update that the issue will be corrected, but so far it hasn't been. It isn't a deal breaker. there's something in another screen reader that drives me even more bonkers, and that's how the insert key randomly stops working. At least it doesn't do that in NVDA. I can live with the treeview lists not reading because I can always restart NVDA, but when the insert key quits working, I can't restart the other screen reader because that's one of the keys used to restart it. Anyway, I hope this is somewhat helpful for you. Take care.

Annette

On 8/22/2018 6:55 PM, Tony Ballou wrote:
Howdy Folks,


Not sure where to pinpoint this issue, but here's the deal.


When I try to read the list of files in my folders, NVDA simply will say
tree view and not tell me any of the folder contents.  It also doesn't
speak when I arrow through the list.


Another thing that also happens is that windows will say task switching
when I try to press alt-tab to move around the screen.  To get things to
properly function, I have to press the space bar to get it to tell me
what window I'm on. Another thing that happens is that I have to use the
f10 function key to navigate to the menus, because the alt key doesn't
work.   Does anyone have any ideas about this strange behavior.  I've
got the latest version of NVDA and windows 1803.  Thanks in advance.


Tony



Re: Favourite add-ons

Jason White
 

BrailleExtender is very good. It provides functionality that I think would be better integrated into the NvDA core, but the developers may disagree - and, of course, it's their decision to make and not for me to comment idly from the comfortable armchair.

On 8/22/18, 18:05, "George McCoy" <nvda@nvda.groups.io on behalf of slr1bpz@charter.net> wrote:

Um ... to get back to the original topic, my favorite add ons are remote
support, goldwave, bit_che and golden cursor.

I, for one, would be very interested in seeing what add ons others use as
opposed to a discussion about the merit or necessity or lack thereof of
systray and slipspeak.

Thanks for reading,
George

-----Original Message-----
From: Rui Fontes
Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2018 9:53 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Favourite add-ons

Yes! Sorry Joseph!

Rui Fontes


Às 15:17 de 22/08/2018, Joseph Lee escreveu:
> Hi,
> Correction: Joseph Lee, not Doug Lee.
> Cheers,
> Joseph
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rui Fontes
> Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2018 5:09 AM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Favourite add-ons
>
> Hello!
>
> 1 - I agree that a screen reader should not modify the user interface
> given by the system where it is running;
>
> 2 - That should not interfere with the possibility of screen readers make
> available a alternative user interface, when it is usefull.
>
> 3 - Systray list addon was created by me, with the help of Rui Batista,
> and later modified by Doug Lee.
>
> 4 - Why I decided to create it?
> 4.1 - Most new NVDA users, at least in 2013 in Portugal and Brazil, were
> old Jaws users and so they were used to it;
> 4.2 - Sometimes, when you arrow through Systray, after making Windows+B,
> and you get to the Network icon, the system shows a popup, Network flyout
> or something like that, and make unusable the systray that way...;
>
> 5 - So, for me, the ideological reason is not valid, since the screen
> reader is not changing the user interface, but only giving anorther way to
> do the same...
>
> 6 - Regarding the announcement of copy, cut and paste, here I can
> understand the ideological reason, since the operating system do not
> announce it in some cases...
>
> 6.1 - The system never announces the fact of something being copied to the
> clipboard;
> 6.2 - When something is cutted, a visual information is given, since the
> text or file is gone, and NVDA not always give that information to us;
> 6.3 - When something is pasted, again, some visual information is given,
> but not always NVDA announce it...
>
> 7 - So, for me, the ideological reason only will be valid when NVDA give
> us the same information given visually.
>
> 8 - Untill that, I will defend the announcement of copy, cut and paste,
> making all efforts to gave a correct information, but when it will not be
> possible to be sure the operation was performed, giving us the information
> not confirmed...
>
> Regards,
>
> Rui Fontes
> NVDA portuguese team
>
>
>
> Às 11:14 de 22/08/2018, Gene escreveu:
>> Here is a correction to my last message.
>> I said that one reason that copy, cut and paste aren't announced is
>> the ideological one I discussed. That may be incorrect. I read two
>> discussions of this when users requested the feature that are
>> available on Ghithub. I didn't see the ideological reason given.
>> Instead, the mistaken belief was expressed that it can't be known
>> reliably except in certain cases, when copying, pasting, and cutting
>> occur. this is factually incorrect yet it was believed by the
>> developers for most of the years NVDA has been under development. I
>> don't know what the developers believe now.
>> The argument was that NVDA would have to be programmed to announce
>> copy, paste, and cut when the commands were given without any
>> knowledge of whether the actions were actually taken. So the
>> screen-reader would give false information if something prevented the
>> operations from occurring.
>> As the developer of the add on has demonstrated and as I did in my
>> tests, this belief is incorrect and I strongly believe that since the
>> belief has been disproven, that the feature should either be placed in
>> code or that the add on be distributed and active as part of the
>> installation. I don't care which solution would be adopted.
>> Gene
>> ----- original Message -----
>> *From:* Gene <mailto:gsasner@ripco.com>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 22, 2018 4:49 AM
>> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>> *Subject:* Re: [nvda] Favourite add-ons
>>
>> This message is rather long. I hope you find it interesting and
>> provocative of thought.
>> Rarely, one of the icons doesn't work as expect in the system tray. I
>> don't remember what now, but I couldn't do something in the system
>> tray I should have been able to do but I could in the system tray dialog.
>> Aside from that, while it wouldn't be a major problem or inconvenience
>> to accustom myself to the system tray interface for regular use, why
>> should I have to? The dialog has been standard in screen-readers
>> since Windows 98. Why wasn't it included in NVDA? As far as I know,
>> this was for ideological reasons, and ideology defeated common sense
>> and a reasonable accomodation to something that had been available for
>> so long that it is now the standard.
>> the reason there was a separate system tray dialog in the first place
>> is that the system tray wasn't accessible in Windows 98. And when the
>> system tray dialog was instituted, a lot of people were still using
>> Windows 95, where the system tray was also inaccessible. So the
>> dialog started as a way to use an inaccessible feature, not as a
>> redundancy.
>> The ideological principle is that screen-readers should never unless
>> really necessary, present anything that isn't presented to the sighted
>> user in a different format or manner or present any additional
>> information.
>> While I generally agree with this approach, ideology, strictly adhered
>> to to the point of absurdity, always fails to deal with reality or
>> common sense.
>> New users to NVDA should not have to wait until they, maybe, learn
>> about add ons to have a feature that has been standard in
>> screen-readers for twenty years.
>> And it was partly the same ideological rigidity that caused the copy
>> and paste announcements not to be heard in NVDA and I object for the
>> same reasons. At least make the add ons part of the installation if
>> they aren't added to the code. Window-eyes for years, had add ons as
>> part of the installation of the program. This is nothing radical.
>> Gene
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> *From:* Clare Page <mailto:clare.page@wanadoo.fr>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 22, 2018 4:17 AM
>> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>> *Subject:* Re: [nvda] Favourite add-ons
>>
>> Hi!
>>
>> I find the Clipspeak add-on very useful, because without it there is
>> no announcement of when copying and cutting and pasting has been done;
>>
>> As for the system tray add-on, I hope you don’t mind me asking, but
>> why do you need this add-on, and consider it as essential, when the
>> system tray is perfectly usable without it? I’m not criticizing, just
>> curious as to why you consider it a necessary add-on and think it
>> should be part of NVDA, when NVDA can easily read the system tray on its
>> own?
>>
>> Bye for now!
>>
>> From Clare
>>
>> *From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] *On Behalf Of
>> *Gene
>> *Sent:* mardi 21 août 2018 16:04
>> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
>> *Subject:* Re: [nvda] Favourite add-ons
>>
>> I don't use many add ons because the way I use my computer, I don't
>> benefit from most of them. But the two I use regularly and I consider
>> important enough that they shouldn't be add ons is Clip Speak, which
>> announces copy and past when you copy to and past from the clipboard,
>> and the system tray dialog add on. The system tray dialog has been a
>> standard part of screen-readers since Windows 2008. It should be
>> included in NVDA itself but it isn't.
>>
>> As for Clipp Speak, I don't know if there is a new version that solves
>> these problems. the original version caused some problems in Word and
>> it caused a problem in the Youtube downloader I use even though I
>> wasn't directly using the add on. So, if you see strange problems you
>> didn't have before, even if they seem unrelated to anything you would
>> expect the add on to cause, try disabling them and see if the problem
>> disappears.
>>
>> Gene
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>
>> *From:*Sociohack AC <mailto:acsociopath@gmail.com>
>>
>> *Sent:*Tuesday, August 21, 2018 8:37 AM
>>
>> *To:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>
>> *Subject:*[nvda] Favourite add-ons
>>
>> What are the most useful add-ons for you people?
>> --
>> Regards,
>> Sociohack
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


Re: Set colour with conditional rule in Excel 2016

 

Cearbhall,

          In case it helps, take a look at this "quick and dirty" version of my billing sheet, where I put conditional formatting on cell B29, which turns gets a red background fill if cells B18 through B27 are all blank, and J29 gets a background of pale lavender if cells A18 through A27 are all blank.

           Download link:  https://drive.google.com/uc?export=download&id=1eM_VgwXupDuUKGu7lAFMsHj7x4tjW1ka

          That spreadsheet was edited using Excel 2016, though I have no idea on what version of Excel it was originally created, as it was not created by me.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    A little kindness from person to person is better than a vast love for all humankind.

           ~ Richard Dehmel

 

 


strange stuff happening with the latest version of NVDA and Windows 1803

Tony Ballou
 

Howdy Folks,


Not sure where to pinpoint this issue, but here's the deal.


When I try to read the list of files in my folders, NVDA simply will say
tree view and not tell me any of the folder contents.  It also doesn't
speak when I arrow through the list.


Another thing that also happens is that windows will say task switching
when I try to press alt-tab to move around the screen.  To get things to
properly function, I have to press the space bar to get it to tell me
what window I'm on. Another thing that happens is that I have to use the
f10 function key to navigate to the menus, because the alt key doesn't
work.   Does anyone have any ideas about this strange behavior.  I've
got the latest version of NVDA and windows 1803.  Thanks in advance.


Tony


Re: Set colour with conditional rule in Excel 2016

Quentin Christensen
 

NVDA shouldn't stop conditional formatting from working, and should be able to announce colours, both foreground text and background fill.

Have you checked that your conditional formatting formulas are working?  They can be fiddly to get right sometimes.

On Thu, Aug 23, 2018 at 8:03 AM, Cearbhall O'Meadhra <cearbhall.omeadhra@...> wrote:

Hi Quentin et al,

 

 

I have read and carefully followed the steps for setting a new rule using a formula to change the fill colour of a row based on a certain word appearing in a particular column.

 

The procedure for editing rules is really straightforward and yet I cannot get it to take the fill colour. NVDA reports no colour even though the colour is flagged as selected. The no colour status is probably true, because the colour does not appear when the key word is present in the chosen cell.

 

My question is: Does NVDA definitely enable the selection of the fill colour when editing a new rule?

 

If so, how?

 

All the best,

 

Cearbhall

 

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...

 

 




--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Re: Set colour with conditional rule in Excel 2016

 

Cearbhall,

           I can set it, and NVDA is announcing the color when I select it from the grid that's presented.  I did not try the "More Colors" button.

           Be aware that the first button on the "Fill" tab is "No Color" and it's always there, and first, in case you want to clear any color that you may previously have used.  After you select the color you want, the "No Color" button is still there and prominently featured.  Once you land on the No Color Button, you must right arrow through the first set of colors, which start with white, and when you hear white again you're in the grid where you can down/up/left/right arrow your way around.  It may be easier to avoid all this altogether if you know the RGB value for the background color you wish to use.  If that's the case, go directly to the "More Colors" button and activate it, then if you're not already on the custom colors tab of the More Colors dialog, navigate to it.  The default color model is RGB and you can then get to the red, green, and blue edit boxes and enter the values for the background color you want, and hit OK.

But even if I used NVDA with the color selection toolbar/grid, as soon as I right arrowed off of the "No Color" button NVDA began announcing the colors and their respective RGB values, and allowing me to select the one I was currently on.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    A little kindness from person to person is better than a vast love for all humankind.

           ~ Richard Dehmel

 

 


Re: Favourite add-ons

Antony Stone
 

How often do you get moths around your computer :) ?

Antony.

On Thursday 23 August 2018 at 00:23:33, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

Mine are the sound add on, and that’s about it. I have remote nvda
installed but I have not checked for updates in about 3-4 moths.
--
There are 10 types of people in the world:
those who understand binary notation,
and those who don't.

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.


Re: Favourite add-ons

Sarah k Alawami
 

Mine are the sound add on, and that’s about it. I have remote nvda installed but I have not checked for updates in about 3-4 moths.

On 22 Aug 2018, at 15:05, George McCoy wrote:

Um ... to get back to the original topic, my favorite add ons are remote support, goldwave, bit_che and golden cursor.

I, for one, would be very interested in seeing what add ons others use as opposed to a discussion about the merit or necessity or lack thereof of systray and slipspeak.

Thanks for reading,
George

-----Original Message----- From: Rui Fontes
Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2018 9:53 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Favourite add-ons

Yes! Sorry Joseph!

Rui Fontes


Às 15:17 de 22/08/2018, Joseph Lee escreveu:
Hi,
Correction: Joseph Lee, not Doug Lee.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rui Fontes
Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2018 5:09 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Favourite add-ons

Hello!

1 - I agree that a screen reader should not modify the user interface given by the system where it is running;

2 - That should not interfere with the possibility of screen readers make available a alternative user interface, when it is usefull.

3 - Systray list addon was created by me, with the help of Rui Batista, and later modified by Doug Lee.

4 - Why I decided to create it?
4.1 - Most new NVDA users, at least in 2013 in Portugal and Brazil, were old Jaws users and so they were used to it;
4.2 - Sometimes, when you arrow through Systray, after making Windows+B, and you get to the Network icon, the system shows a popup, Network flyout or something like that, and make unusable the systray that way...;

5 - So, for me, the ideological reason is not valid, since the screen reader is not changing the user interface, but only giving anorther way to do the same...

6 - Regarding the announcement of copy, cut and paste, here I can understand the ideological reason, since the operating system do not announce it in some cases...

6.1 - The system never announces the fact of something being copied to the clipboard;
6.2 - When something is cutted, a visual information is given, since the text or file is gone, and NVDA not always give that information to us;
6.3 - When something is pasted, again, some visual information is given, but not always NVDA announce it...

7 - So, for me, the ideological reason only will be valid when NVDA give us the same information given visually.

8 - Untill that, I will defend the announcement of copy, cut and paste, making all efforts to gave a correct information, but when it will not be possible to be sure the operation was performed, giving us the information not confirmed...

Regards,

Rui Fontes
NVDA portuguese team



Às 11:14 de 22/08/2018, Gene escreveu:
Here is a correction to my last message.
I said that one reason that copy, cut and paste aren't announced is
the ideological one I discussed. That may be incorrect. I read two
discussions of this when users requested the feature that are
available on Ghithub. I didn't see the ideological reason given.
Instead, the mistaken belief was expressed that it can't be known
reliably except in certain cases, when copying, pasting, and cutting
occur. this is factually incorrect yet it was believed by the
developers for most of the years NVDA has been under development. I
don't know what the developers believe now.
The argument was that NVDA would have to be programmed to announce
copy, paste, and cut when the commands were given without any
knowledge of whether the actions were actually taken. So the
screen-reader would give false information if something prevented the
operations from occurring.
As the developer of the add on has demonstrated and as I did in my
tests, this belief is incorrect and I strongly believe that since the
belief has been disproven, that the feature should either be placed in
code or that the add on be distributed and active as part of the
installation. I don't care which solution would be adopted.
Gene
----- original Message -----
*From:* Gene <mailto:gsasner@ripco.com>
*Sent:* Wednesday, August 22, 2018 4:49 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Favourite add-ons

This message is rather long. I hope you find it interesting and
provocative of thought.
Rarely, one of the icons doesn't work as expect in the system tray. I
don't remember what now, but I couldn't do something in the system
tray I should have been able to do but I could in the system tray dialog.
Aside from that, while it wouldn't be a major problem or inconvenience
to accustom myself to the system tray interface for regular use, why
should I have to? The dialog has been standard in screen-readers
since Windows 98. Why wasn't it included in NVDA? As far as I know,
this was for ideological reasons, and ideology defeated common sense
and a reasonable accomodation to something that had been available for
so long that it is now the standard.
the reason there was a separate system tray dialog in the first place
is that the system tray wasn't accessible in Windows 98. And when the
system tray dialog was instituted, a lot of people were still using
Windows 95, where the system tray was also inaccessible. So the
dialog started as a way to use an inaccessible feature, not as a redundancy.
The ideological principle is that screen-readers should never unless
really necessary, present anything that isn't presented to the sighted
user in a different format or manner or present any additional information.
While I generally agree with this approach, ideology, strictly adhered
to to the point of absurdity, always fails to deal with reality or
common sense.
New users to NVDA should not have to wait until they, maybe, learn
about add ons to have a feature that has been standard in
screen-readers for twenty years.
And it was partly the same ideological rigidity that caused the copy
and paste announcements not to be heard in NVDA and I object for the
same reasons. At least make the add ons part of the installation if
they aren't added to the code. Window-eyes for years, had add ons as
part of the installation of the program. This is nothing radical.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Clare Page <mailto:clare.page@wanadoo.fr>
*Sent:* Wednesday, August 22, 2018 4:17 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Favourite add-ons

Hi!

I find the Clipspeak add-on very useful, because without it there is
no announcement of when copying and cutting and pasting has been done;

As for the system tray add-on, I hope you don’t mind me asking, but
why do you need this add-on, and consider it as essential, when the
system tray is perfectly usable without it? I’m not criticizing, just
curious as to why you consider it a necessary add-on and think it
should be part of NVDA, when NVDA can easily read the system tray on its own?

Bye for now!

From Clare

*From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] *On Behalf Of
*Gene
*Sent:* mardi 21 août 2018 16:04
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Favourite add-ons

I don't use many add ons because the way I use my computer, I don't
benefit from most of them. But the two I use regularly and I consider
important enough that they shouldn't be add ons is Clip Speak, which
announces copy and past when you copy to and past from the clipboard,
and the system tray dialog add on. The system tray dialog has been a
standard part of screen-readers since Windows 2008. It should be
included in NVDA itself but it isn't.

As for Clipp Speak, I don't know if there is a new version that solves
these problems. the original version caused some problems in Word and
it caused a problem in the Youtube downloader I use even though I
wasn't directly using the add on. So, if you see strange problems you
didn't have before, even if they seem unrelated to anything you would
expect the add on to cause, try disabling them and see if the problem disappears.

Gene

----- Original Message -----

*From:*Sociohack AC <mailto:acsociopath@gmail.com>

*Sent:*Tuesday, August 21, 2018 8:37 AM

*To:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

*Subject:*[nvda] Favourite add-ons

What are the most useful add-ons for you people?
--
Regards,
Sociohack