Date   

Re: strange stuff happening with the latest version of NVDA and Windows 1803

Jason White
 

I'm running Windows 10 1803 on a laptop, which is not exhibiting any of these issues. However, it's a fresh install of Windows.

At this point I would suggest running sfc /scannow to detect and attempt to correct any corrupted operating system files. It may be worth reinstalling NVDA just to be sure, although I have no evidence that this is likely to help. If you can't correct the issue, then back up all important data, use the Media Creation tool to create a Windows installation image on a USB flash drive, then run setup.exe on that drive and choose to keep applications and personal settings when prompted. It should reinstall Windows over the top of your existing installation. The backup is essential in case anything goes wrong.

I expect the pain will come my way too at some point. By way of comparison, I've never had to reinstall the operating system on my Mac, and rarely had to do it on Linux in the two decades or so over which I've used it.

On 8/22/18, 23:08, "Tony Ballou" <nvda@nvda.groups.io on behalf of cyberpro224@outlook.com> wrote:

Hi Annette,


Thanks, I know I'm not alone now. I've done all of the tricks in the
arsenal that you mentioned and I still find myself playing the game, of
where's the file,and why can't ya read it sighs. This is totally weird.
Hope we can find some solution for this madness. If even does it with
the Microsoft Narrator also. And when it works properly, it only does it
for about 5 minutes.


Tony

On 8/22/2018 8:39 PM, Annette Moore wrote:
> Hi, Tony. It's a pain in the rear, but try restarting NVDA when you
> encounter treeview lists that won't read. it happens with me in
> Explorer. when I restart NVDA, it usually corrects the issue--at least
> for a while anyway. Maximizing the window will also tell you on what
> item your cursor is placed, but again, it's a pain to arrow through
> and keep hitting alt+space, then x and reading the current line.
> Alternatively, close all of your Explorer windows and reopen them. Or
> go do something else for about five minutes and then return to your
> PC. If you get too frustrated, try another screen reader. These are
> the things I've done to deal with this problem. I keep hoping with
> each Windows update or NVDA update that the issue will be corrected,
> but so far it hasn't been. It isn't a deal breaker. there's something
> in another screen reader that drives me even more bonkers, and that's
> how the insert key randomly stops working. At least it doesn't do that
> in NVDA. I can live with the treeview lists not reading because I can
> always restart NVDA, but when the insert key quits working, I can't
> restart the other screen reader because that's one of the keys used to
> restart it. Anyway, I hope this is somewhat helpful for you. Take care.
>
> Annette
>
>
> On 8/22/2018 6:55 PM, Tony Ballou wrote:
>> Howdy Folks,
>>
>>
>> Not sure where to pinpoint this issue, but here's the deal.
>>
>>
>> When I try to read the list of files in my folders, NVDA simply will say
>> tree view and not tell me any of the folder contents. It also doesn't
>> speak when I arrow through the list.
>>
>>
>> Another thing that also happens is that windows will say task switching
>> when I try to press alt-tab to move around the screen. To get things to
>> properly function, I have to press the space bar to get it to tell me
>> what window I'm on. Another thing that happens is that I have to use the
>> f10 function key to navigate to the menus, because the alt key doesn't
>> work. Does anyone have any ideas about this strange behavior. I've
>> got the latest version of NVDA and windows 1803. Thanks in advance.
>>
>>
>> Tony
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>


Re: \Re: Windows 10 and email

 

Setup works great with NVDA and Windows 10 mail app. In my experience, it sure did.

I'm using Microsoft Outlook for email now. I haven't even scratched the surface with all the features.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Abbie Taylor
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2018 6:23 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] \Re: Windows 10 and email

I use Thunderbird. It's very easy to download and install if you get it from www.ninite.com. Some settings need to be tweaked in order for it to work well with a screen reader. I have instructions if anybody needs them. I've noticed lately that it's sluggish on start-up, so you just need to be patient and after a while, it'll work normally. The Windows 10 mail app also works well with NVDA, but set-up only works with Narrator, and it doesn't have all the features that Thunderbird does. I hope this is helpful.

Abbie Johnson Taylor, Author http://abbiescorner.wordpress.com http://www.abbiejohnsontaylor.com abbietaylor945@gmail.com Order my new memoir at http://www.abbiejohnsontaylor.com/memoir.htm

--
Abbie Johnson Taylor, Author
http://www.abbiejohnsontaylor.com
http://abbiescorner.wordpress.com
abbietaylor945@gmail.com


2018 beta 3

Don H
 

I have noticed with both beta 2 and beta 3 that often when in file explorer if I use the arrow keys to read the files in a folder that on what seems to be a random basis when I hit the down arrow NVDA does not read the next file name. If I arrow up then arrow down it usually reads the file name. Continue arrowing down and the same thing happens. Once it stops reading the next file name a continue pressing of the down arrow does not voice anything although my sighted help says the highlighted file continues to move down the list of files.
It is so random in nature I can't tell you how to duplicate it. Running the latest released version of Windows 10 with all updates.


Re: Windows 10 and email

Sarah k Alawami
 

Nah I use gmail all the time and it is perfically usable. In fact it is getting better.

On 23 Aug 2018, at 12:40, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:

I was under the impression that google had just made its email online full of rubbish and almost unusable. I think I'd use gmail if I only had gmail accounts, but I don't and attempting to use different web interfaces for different providers did my head in so I use pop3 mostly with Imap when I need to see the spam folder. Brian

bglists@... Sent via blueyonder. Please address personal E-mail to:- briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff' in the display name field. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sarah k Alawami" marrie12@... To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2018 4:08 PM Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows 10 and email

I use gmail.com and the basic html view. Works here. I don’t use nor like any email programs on windows.

Take care

On 23 Aug 2018, at 0:33, Kwork wrote:

I imagine I'll get more than one opinion here, but what do people use in Windows 10 for email? Other questions would include, accessible out of the box, and if not, what needs to happen, additional tweaks, apps, etc. Thanks for any help!


Re: I am having to refresh the buffer a lot more than usual

Rui Fontes
 

Using Windows 10 1803, last Alpha version of NVDA, no problems with Edge, Chrome or Firefox...

Rui


Às 00:04 de 24/08/2018, David Moore escreveu:

Hi Brian and all!
I have had a lot of problems with NVDA and Google Chrome and Firefox lately. I have the latest Alpha build, and I can hardly use NVDA in Edge, anymore, Firefox is very slow, and I have to keep refreshing the buffer in Chrome as well. I have to do that, probably every two minutes or so, and sometimes, I have to reload the page. I never had any of this trouble with NVDA on the web until the last couple of weeks.
I am concerned.
I hope some others can speak up and say how their web experience is on their browser.
Thanks a lot for bringing this up!
David Moore
Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10
*From: *Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <mailto:bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io>
*Sent: *Thursday, August 23, 2018 4:35 AM
*To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject: *Re: [nvda] I am having to refresh the buffer a lot more than usual
Google have changed their interface in the last week or so. I find Waterfox
works but firefox sometimes misses the updated page data with nvda unless it
is refreshed. Whether this is a quirk of the browser or nvda I really do not
know.
Brian
bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Governor staten" <govsta@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2018 7:10 AM
Subject: [nvda] I am having to refresh the buffer a lot more than usual

> Hello listers. I am using Firefox 61.0.2, along with the most recent NVDA

> alpha release. I'll do my best to describe what is going on, as I see it.

>

>

>

> I'll go to www.google.com <http://www.google.com> , and do a search. I

> expect that any results will show up after pressing enter when typing of

> my

> query is complete. Sometimes, this will happen. Other times, I see no

> headings. However, when I press nvda+f5, everything shows as expected.

> I'll

> work to isolate this more specifically. Has anyone else had any issues

> such

> as this?

>

>

>

>

>


Re: I am having to refresh the buffer a lot more than usual

David Moore
 

Hi Brian and all!

I have had a lot of problems with NVDA and Google Chrome and Firefox lately. I have the latest Alpha build, and I can hardly use NVDA in Edge, anymore, Firefox is very slow, and I have to keep refreshing the buffer in Chrome as well. I have to do that, probably every two minutes or so, and sometimes, I have to reload the page. I never had any of this trouble with NVDA on the web until the last couple of weeks.

I am concerned.

I hope some others can speak up and say how their web experience is on their browser.

Thanks a lot for bringing this up!

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2018 4:35 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I am having to refresh the buffer a lot more than usual

 

Google have changed their interface in the last week or so. I find Waterfox

works but firefox sometimes misses the updated page data with nvda unless it

is refreshed. Whether this is a quirk of the browser or nvda I really do not

know.

Brian

 

bglists@...

Sent via blueyonder.

Please address personal E-mail to:-

briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'

in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----

From: "Governor staten" <govsta@...>

To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>

Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2018 7:10 AM

Subject: [nvda] I am having to refresh the buffer a lot more than usual

 

 

> Hello listers. I am using Firefox 61.0.2, along with the most recent NVDA

> alpha release. I'll do my best to describe what is going on, as I see it.

> I'll go to www.google.com <http://www.google.com> , and do a search. I

> expect that any results will show up after pressing enter when typing of

> my

> query is complete. Sometimes, this will happen. Other times, I see no

> headings. However, when I press nvda+f5, everything shows as expected.

> I'll

> work to isolate this more specifically. Has anyone else had any issues

> such

> as this?

>

>

 

 

 

 


Re: academics and employment

Antony Stone
 

Imagine a non-blind person applying for, and getting, a job.

That person is expected to use the tools the employer provides, and to do the
job the way the employer dictates, even if the employee knows there might be
better tools or a better way.

If the employee wants to do things a different way, they're welcome to find a
different employer who thinks the same.

Blind employees have no more right to dictate the way the employer wants to
run their business than sighted employees. So long as the employer makes
sufficient provision that the blind person is *able* to do the job, that's
exactly the same as providing the sighted employee with tools that *work*,
even if they're not the best or most efficient tools.

Legislation aims to ensure that disabled people get the same chances as non-
disabled. Neither of those has to be the best way of doing things.


Antony.

On Thursday 23 August 2018 at 23:31:42, brian wrote:

Gene this law does need to be changed we should have the right to
use the screen reader that will be the most effective for us on a job we
should not have to learn a new screen reader just they want to dictate
to us what screen reader we will use. If nvda is more effective for us
than jaws then we should have the right to use it under the ada law.
You and I will have to agree to disagree on this issue. No imployer
should ever have the right to tell what screen reader we will use.

Brian Sackrider

On 8/23/2018 12:10 AM, Gene wrote:
Perhaps you should have the option to make a case for the
screen-reader you want but not everything in life that flows from
having a disability confers a right. The employer has the right under
law to accommodate disabled workers as he/she sees fit if the
accomodation is effective. The law will never give the employee the
right to dictate to an employer how he runs his business.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* brian <mailto:sackriderbrian45@gmail.com>
*Sent:* Wednesday, August 22, 2018 9:44 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] academics and employment

I do think that we should have the right to use the screen reader
of our choice on a job. No imployer should have a right to tell us what
screen reader we will use. We may have to use both jaws and nvda to be
as productive as we possible as we can be. I do prefer nvda when I had
jaws 10 I did not care for it as much as I do nvda. My friend prefers
jaws to nvda but he will use nvda when it does things that jaws doesn't
read. It seems that if we ever say anything like this needs to be
improved we are being critical and that we don't appreciate the work
that is done for us. Thats just not true at all we are not bashing in
anyway but in everything there is always room for improving but if we
dare to state this then we get bashed on lists. There is nothing wrong
with using both jaws and nvda just like there is nothing wrong with
using more than one internet brouser. We use what ever works when we
need it and that may change over time so it's good to be very flexable
and be willing to conciter all of your options. A jaws user may
conciter using nvda and a nvda user might conciter using jaws when it
might be necessary to do so. This does not mean that you are changing
your screen reader you are just using annother tool to get the job
doneand thats all it is. some people seem to make it sound like the
oposite screen reader of theirs is almost usless because it is not the
one they use. If either really was almost usless it might be arround.
I know that of basic pc users just can't justify the high price of jaws
but that does not mean that they don't think that jaws ins is a bad
screen reader they just don't need all of the bells and whistles of
jaws. The fact that we can't make payments on jaws is a big deal
breaker for many blind people and nvda is free. They also feel after
nvda is free so if it does not read everything it's free anyway so I
will read what I can and I won't wory about what I can't read.

Brian Sackrider

On 8/18/2018 1:28 AM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:
Hi, Chris,

Yes, it appears from what I read that Gene prefers Jaws over NVDA.
We all

have the right to our own opinions. We should be able to agree to
disagree.

After all, that's what life is all about--differing viewpoints. I
used Jaws

for years and both Jaws and NVDA are great programs. NVDA serves my
needs

very well.

Rosemarie

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Chris

Shook
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2018 8:12 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

THis really has nothing to do with the current conversation, but I
have to

ask.
Since when did human society degrade to such a point that people
cannot have

different viewpoints on issues.
I happen to agree with Michael that I do like NVDA better than JAWS.
THat is not to say JAWS is a bad product. I just prefer NVDA over JAWS.
Jean, it appears that you prefer JAWS over NVDA. That's cool to.
Can't we

just agree to disagree?"
--
"Microsoft's profit margins require a monopoly lock on the market; thus,
they're stuck with being predatory evil bastards. The moment they stop being
predatory evil bastards, their stock price will tank and their options pyramid
will crash and it will be all over."

- Eric S Raymond

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.


\Re: Windows 10 and email

Abbie Taylor <abbietaylor945@...>
 

I use Thunderbird. It's very easy to download and install if you get it from www.ninite.com. Some settings need to be tweaked in order for it to work well with a screen reader. I have instructions if anybody needs them. I've noticed lately that it's sluggish on start-up, so you just need to be patient and after a while, it'll work normally. The Windows 10 mail app also works well with NVDA, but set-up only works with Narrator, and it doesn't have all the features that Thunderbird does. I hope this is helpful.

Abbie Johnson Taylor, Author http://abbiescorner.wordpress.com
http://www.abbiejohnsontaylor.com
abbietaylor945@gmail.com
Order my new memoir at http://www.abbiejohnsontaylor.com/memoir.htm

--
Abbie Johnson Taylor, Author
http://www.abbiejohnsontaylor.com
http://abbiescorner.wordpress.com
abbietaylor945@gmail.com


Re: academics and employment

Gene
 

I don't kno the wording, but I am familiar enough with the ADA to know that it specifically doesn't mandate how accomodation shall be done in most cases.  If the employer provides satisfactory accomodations, the law doesn't give the employee the right to micromanage it. 
 
No company would hire blind employees to do work where the employee uses a computer if any employee could demand that whatever screen-reader he wants must be used.  You simply do not, and should not, have the right to dictate such things regarding implementation of accomodations to an employer.  Who is going to pay to have any screen-reader an employee demands, be evaluated for its fitness for the job and systems used by the employer.  Who is going to write the scripts for multiple screen-readers and who is going to pay for them?  An
 
Like it or not, employers may have security concerns about a screen-reader.  A wonderful way to ensure blind people would be very unlikely to be hired would be to give the employee dictatorial power of this kind. 
 
Does a sighted employee get to mandate that an employer provide a tool he particularly likes for a job?  Should an employee who doesn't like a certain kind of truck be able to demand that the truck he wants be used?  An employer can demand that an employee use the tools provided.  If an employee doesn't like Microsoft word, does he have the right to demand that the employer use Open Office? 
 
Just having a disability doesn't make every preference a right. 
Accomodation is a right, if it is adequate, specifically how it is done is not a right. 
 
If your position were adopted into law, the unemployment rate among blind people could well increase dramatically.
 

----- Original Message -----

From: brian
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2018 4:31 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

    Gene this law does need to be changed we should have the right to use the screen reader that will be the most effective for us on a job we should not have to learn a new screen reader just they want to dictate to us what screen reader we will use.  If nvda is more effective for us than jaws then we should have the right to use it under the ada law.  You and I will have to agree to disagree on this issue. No imployer should ever have the right to tell what screen reader we will use.

Brian Sackrider


On 8/23/2018 12:10 AM, Gene wrote:
Perhaps you should have the option to make a case for the screen-reader you want but not everything in life that flows from having a disability confers a right.  The employer has the right under law to accommodate disabled workers as he/she sees fit if the accomodation is effective.  The law will never give the employee the right to dictate to an employer how he runs his business. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: brian
Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2018 9:44 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

    I do think that we should have the right to use the screen reader
of our choice on a job.  No imployer should have a right to tell us what
screen reader we will use.   We may have to use both jaws and nvda to be
as productive as we possible as we can be.  I do prefer nvda when I had
jaws 10 I did not care for it as much as I do nvda.  My friend prefers
jaws to nvda but he will use nvda when it does things that jaws doesn't
read.  It seems that if we ever say anything like this needs to be
improved we are being critical and that we don't appreciate the work
that is done for us.  Thats just not true at all we are not bashing in
anyway but in everything there is always room for improving but if we
dare to state this then we get bashed on lists.  There is nothing wrong
with using both jaws and nvda just like there is nothing wrong with
using more than one internet brouser.  We use what ever works when we
need it and that may change over time so it's good to be very flexable
and be willing to conciter all of your options.  A jaws user may
conciter using nvda and a nvda user might conciter using jaws when it
might be necessary to do so.  This does not mean that you are changing
your screen reader you are just using annother tool to get the job
doneand thats all it is.  some people seem to make it sound like the
oposite screen reader of theirs is almost usless because it is not the
one they use.  If either really was almost usless it might be arround. 
I know that of basic pc users just can't justify the high price of jaws
but that does not mean that they don't think that jaws ins is a bad
screen reader they just don't need all of the bells and whistles of
jaws.  The fact that we can't make payments on jaws is a big deal
breaker for many blind people and nvda is free.  They also feel after
nvda is free so if it does not read everything it's free anyway so I
will read what I can and I won't wory about what I can't read.

Brian Sackrider


On 8/18/2018 1:28 AM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:
> Hi, Chris,
>
> Yes, it appears from what I read that Gene prefers Jaws over NVDA. We all
> have the right to our own opinions. We should be able to agree to disagree.
> After all, that's what life is all about--differing viewpoints. I used Jaws
> for years and both Jaws and NVDA are great programs. NVDA serves my needs
> very well.
>
> Rosemarie
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Chris
> Shook
> Sent: Friday, August 17, 2018 8:12 PM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment
>
> THis really has nothing to do with the current conversation, but I have to
> ask.
> Since when did human society degrade to such a point that people cannot have
> different viewpoints on issues.
> I happen to agree with Michael that I do like NVDA better than JAWS.
> THat is not to say JAWS is a bad product. I just prefer NVDA over JAWS.
> Jean, it appears that you prefer JAWS over NVDA. That's cool to. Can't we
> just agree to disagree?"
>
>
>
>
>
>





Re: regular expression and speech dic

 

On Thu, Aug 23, 2018 at 01:52 PM, JM Casey wrote:
I’m really interested in learning and mastering this [regular expressions] myself.
Good luck with that!!    And I say that both sincerely and with a huge dose of snark, because almost everyone who delves into regular expression syntax comes to believe, and very quickly, that mastery in any conventional sense of the word is unattainable!    You can become incredibly proficient and know more than anyone else you know, and there's still more you don't know.

I would love to know what perverse genius first thought up the concept of regular expressions, which come as close as any formal pattern matching syntax I've seen to being able to be "almost human" in the way alternatives in the original text can all be recognized, but those regular expressions are often nightmarish to look at and understand.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    A little kindness from person to person is better than a vast love for all humankind.

           ~ Richard Dehmel

 

 


Re: Windows 10 and email

Ervin, Glenn
 

That is what I was noticing about it too, but this guy just wants to read and reply, and it seems to be working for him, and he is an hour and a half away, and he has to mail his laptop to me, so when changes need to be made, it is not too often.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2018 2:44 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows 10 and email

My main gripe with the 10 mail client is that its really poor on features.
If it has message sorting rules, I could not find them, and it does not appear to do usenet either, which i still use.
It has its own way of dealing with email addresses, completely unlike most other email clients.
It does not seem to have identities and 6 email accounts in a tree view does my head in.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hans" <lasthans@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2018 5:41 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows 10 and email


Hi,
Appologies forthe blankmessage, but I was answering the question about
Windows 10 Email clients.
I started using the windows 10 mail app, after Windows Live Mail started
acting up, showing messages of Not Responding when trying to open a message.
I’m on a windows 7 computer at the moment so that’s not an issue here.

Hans Last
Email; lasthans@gmail.com
Skype: hanslast
Twitter: hlast
Instagram: http://instagram.com/hlast
Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/hlast


Re: Windows 10 and email

Ervin, Glenn
 

I do use Jaws primarily.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2018 2:38 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows 10 and email

Well maybe you should be a Jaws user then.. grin.
However I seem to recall that there are programs to convert menus, but each time windows updates it needs to be reinstalled, and I am not sure if the office one still will work. Office 2019is about I notice. What is new there I wonder. I am still using office 2003 and 2 with nvda as far as word is concerned.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ervin, Glenn" <glenn.ervin@nebraska.gov>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2018 8:00 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows 10 and email


I use Office 2000 at home on my 7 machine, and I had on my friend’s Windows
10, but when it updated, it quit working.
I prefer 2000.
I hate the ribbon stuff.
Glenn

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2018 10:26 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows 10 and email

As an aside to this conversation, for those who would like to use Outlook
2016, it's now far cheaper, and completely legal, to get "recycled"
licenses for Office 2016.

There was some change to the laws in the EU that have made it illegal for
Microsoft to tie the license for Office to a single machine literally, and
if that single machine is being tossed out it is legal for its owner to
extract the Office license for use on another. Well, this has resulted
in a cottage industry of computer geeks buying up mass quantities of
computers being junked and extracting and reselling the licenses.

I have just upgraded 4 computers in my household from Office 2010 to
Office 2016 (actually, I've got both running side by side, just in case I
want to do something in 2010), and each Office 2016 Pro Plus license was
purchased on eBay for under $10, and they all activated just fine. I just
paid attention to the seller's reputation when purchasing.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134

A little kindness from person to person is better than a vast love for
all humankind.

~ Richard Dehmel









Re: academics and employment

brian <sackriderbrian45@...>
 

    Gene this law does need to be changed we should have the right to use the screen reader that will be the most effective for us on a job we should not have to learn a new screen reader just they want to dictate to us what screen reader we will use.  If nvda is more effective for us than jaws then we should have the right to use it under the ada law.  You and I will have to agree to disagree on this issue. No imployer should ever have the right to tell what screen reader we will use.

Brian Sackrider


On 8/23/2018 12:10 AM, Gene wrote:
Perhaps you should have the option to make a case for the screen-reader you want but not everything in life that flows from having a disability confers a right.  The employer has the right under law to accommodate disabled workers as he/she sees fit if the accomodation is effective.  The law will never give the employee the right to dictate to an employer how he runs his business. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: brian
Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2018 9:44 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

    I do think that we should have the right to use the screen reader
of our choice on a job.  No imployer should have a right to tell us what
screen reader we will use.   We may have to use both jaws and nvda to be
as productive as we possible as we can be.  I do prefer nvda when I had
jaws 10 I did not care for it as much as I do nvda.  My friend prefers
jaws to nvda but he will use nvda when it does things that jaws doesn't
read.  It seems that if we ever say anything like this needs to be
improved we are being critical and that we don't appreciate the work
that is done for us.  Thats just not true at all we are not bashing in
anyway but in everything there is always room for improving but if we
dare to state this then we get bashed on lists.  There is nothing wrong
with using both jaws and nvda just like there is nothing wrong with
using more than one internet brouser.  We use what ever works when we
need it and that may change over time so it's good to be very flexable
and be willing to conciter all of your options.  A jaws user may
conciter using nvda and a nvda user might conciter using jaws when it
might be necessary to do so.  This does not mean that you are changing
your screen reader you are just using annother tool to get the job
doneand thats all it is.  some people seem to make it sound like the
oposite screen reader of theirs is almost usless because it is not the
one they use.  If either really was almost usless it might be arround. 
I know that of basic pc users just can't justify the high price of jaws
but that does not mean that they don't think that jaws ins is a bad
screen reader they just don't need all of the bells and whistles of
jaws.  The fact that we can't make payments on jaws is a big deal
breaker for many blind people and nvda is free.  They also feel after
nvda is free so if it does not read everything it's free anyway so I
will read what I can and I won't wory about what I can't read.

Brian Sackrider


On 8/18/2018 1:28 AM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:
> Hi, Chris,
>
> Yes, it appears from what I read that Gene prefers Jaws over NVDA. We all
> have the right to our own opinions. We should be able to agree to disagree.
> After all, that's what life is all about--differing viewpoints. I used Jaws
> for years and both Jaws and NVDA are great programs. NVDA serves my needs
> very well.
>
> Rosemarie
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Chris
> Shook
> Sent: Friday, August 17, 2018 8:12 PM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment
>
> THis really has nothing to do with the current conversation, but I have to
> ask.
> Since when did human society degrade to such a point that people cannot have
> different viewpoints on issues.
> I happen to agree with Michael that I do like NVDA better than JAWS.
> THat is not to say JAWS is a bad product. I just prefer NVDA over JAWS.
> Jean, it appears that you prefer JAWS over NVDA. That's cool to. Can't we
> just agree to disagree?"
>
>
>
>
>
>





Re: Windows 10 and email

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

My main gripe with the 10 mail client is that its really poor on features. If it has message sorting rules, I could not find them, and it does not appear to do usenet either, which i still use.
It has its own way of dealing with email addresses, completely unlike most other email clients.
It does not seem to have identities and 6 email accounts in a tree view does my head in.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Hans" <lasthans@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2018 5:41 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows 10 and email


Hi,
Appologies forthe blankmessage, but I was answering the question about Windows 10 Email clients.
I started using the windows 10 mail app, after Windows Live Mail started acting up, showing messages of Not Responding when trying to open a message. I’m on a windows 7 computer at the moment so that’s not an issue here.

Hans Last
Email; lasthans@gmail.com
Skype: hanslast
Twitter: hlast
Instagram: http://instagram.com/hlast
Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/hlast


Re: Windows 10 and email

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I was under the impression that google had just made its email online full of rubbish and almost unusable. I think I'd use gmail if I only had gmail accounts, but I don't and attempting to use different web interfaces for different providers did my head in so I use pop3 mostly with Imap when I need to see the spam folder.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Sarah k Alawami" <marrie12@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2018 4:08 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows 10 and email


I use gmail.com and the basic html view. Works here. I don’t use nor
like any email programs on windows.

Take care

On 23 Aug 2018, at 0:33, Kwork wrote:

I imagine I'll get more than one opinion here, but what do people use
in
Windows 10 for email? Other questions would include, accessible out of
the
box, and if not, what needs to happen, additional tweaks, apps, etc.
Thanks
for any help!





Re: Windows 10 and email

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Well maybe you should be a Jaws user then.. grin.
However I seem to recall that there are programs to convert menus, but each time windows updates it needs to be reinstalled, and I am not sure if the office one still will work. Office 2019is about I notice. What is new there I wonder. I am still using office 2003 and 2 with nvda as far as word is concerned.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ervin, Glenn" <glenn.ervin@nebraska.gov>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2018 8:00 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows 10 and email


I use Office 2000 at home on my 7 machine, and I had on my friend’s Windows 10, but when it updated, it quit working.
I prefer 2000.
I hate the ribbon stuff.
Glenn

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2018 10:26 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows 10 and email

As an aside to this conversation, for those who would like to use Outlook 2016, it's now far cheaper, and completely legal, to get "recycled" licenses for Office 2016.

There was some change to the laws in the EU that have made it illegal for Microsoft to tie the license for Office to a single machine literally, and if that single machine is being tossed out it is legal for its owner to extract the Office license for use on another. Well, this has resulted in a cottage industry of computer geeks buying up mass quantities of computers being junked and extracting and reselling the licenses.

I have just upgraded 4 computers in my household from Office 2010 to Office 2016 (actually, I've got both running side by side, just in case I want to do something in 2010), and each Office 2016 Pro Plus license was purchased on eBay for under $10, and they all activated just fine. I just paid attention to the seller's reputation when purchasing.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134

A little kindness from person to person is better than a vast love for all humankind.

~ Richard Dehmel








Re: Windows 10 and email

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

No there is a hacked version of Outlook express but every time 10 does a large update it removes it, so you need to back it all up before you update 10, and then reinstall and put the messages and wab files back again. At least in Windows 7 it works. It costs for a key though as it uses a bit of extra code to deal with the different mailto code and html display code in the later windows.
Quite why after spending time getting OE to actually work with access tech, they did not fix it themselves and offer it as an alternative eludes me, the same with live mail, though I never did like it as it had no identities option.
That is something I really need to keep my charity and real life apart as much as possible!

Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ervin, Glenn" <glenn.ervin@nebraska.gov>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2018 3:38 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows 10 and email


I haven't been happy with Thunderbird on my windows 7 computer, it seemed too much, I just wanted something like Outlook Express, so when I set up a client's computer to use OE, and the windows 10 update removed it on its own, I set his computer to use the default windows mail program.
It is pretty good, but it seems much less configurable than OE.
For example, I could not find a way to change the order of messages to have the newest at the bottom.
Glenn

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2018 5:03 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows 10 and email

I use thunderbird 60.

If you want something thats fully accessible and need addons 52.9.1 is the last version of thunderbird that mozilla has before it switched over to the 60x and higher series.

One word of warning though, according to the main thunderbird website that version is never going to get updated again so its going to eventually probably expire probably.

If you don't need addons at all, then the quantom interface for thunderbird works well enough as long as you set messages to open in the same window and turn off tabbed brousing in settings as well as set the home page to inbox.

You may or may not need sighted help to turn off the lightning addon for calendar.

Last time I set it up it did itself.



On 8/23/2018 7:33 PM, Kwork wrote:
I imagine I'll get more than one opinion here, but what do people use
in Windows 10 for email? Other questions would include, accessible out
of the box, and if not, what needs to happen, additional tweaks, apps,
etc. Thanks for any help!








Add-on Updater (proof of concept) August 23rd build posted, selective add-on updates now in place

 

Hi all,

 

Add-on Updater (proof of concept) August 23rd build is now available. This build is notable in that it brings a preview of how you can tell NVDA to not update add-ons if add-on update dialog shows up. In order to support this, add-on updates list has gone significant changes.

 

To selectively allow add-on updates when add-on update dialog shows up:

 

  1. When one or more add-on updates are available, a list of checkboxes will be shown. By default, they are not checked.
  2. Check the add-on(s) you’d like to update.
  3. Select Update, and only the selected (checked) add-ons will be updated.

 

This scenario is useful if you wish to avoid updating to a later version of an add-on that’s known to cause problems. The next build will feature ability to select some add-ons to receive updates from development channel.

 

Cheers,

Joseph


Re: Windows 10 and email

Ervin, Glenn
 

I use Office 2000 at home on my 7 machine, and I had on my friend’s Windows 10, but when it updated, it quit working.

I prefer 2000.

I hate the ribbon stuff.

Glenn

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2018 10:26 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows 10 and email

 

As an aside to this conversation, for those who would like to use Outlook 2016, it's now far cheaper, and completely legal, to get "recycled" licenses for Office 2016.

There was some change to the laws in the EU that have made it illegal for Microsoft to tie the license for Office to a single machine literally, and if that single machine is being tossed out it is legal for its owner to extract the Office license for use on another.   Well, this has resulted in a cottage industry of computer geeks buying up mass quantities of computers being junked and extracting and reselling the licenses.

I have just upgraded 4 computers in my household from Office 2010 to Office 2016 (actually, I've got both running side by side, just in case I want to do something in 2010), and each Office 2016 Pro Plus license was purchased on eBay for under $10, and they all activated just fine.  I just paid attention to the seller's reputation when purchasing.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    A little kindness from person to person is better than a vast love for all humankind.

           ~ Richard Dehmel

 

 


Re: [SUSPECT URL!]Re: [nvda] Windows 10 and email

Ervin, Glenn
 

I can’t remember now, but either Windows 10 removed that too, or it did not allow me to install it.

Glenn

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2018 10:15 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [SUSPECT URL!]Re: [nvda] Windows 10 and email

 

On Thu, Aug 23, 2018 at 10:38 AM, Ervin, Glenn wrote:

For example, I could not find a way to change the order of messages to have the newest at the bottom.

Like any e-mail client I've ever worked with, this is nothing more than a "click"/activate on the column heading, typically, to set the column used to sort and to reverse the sort order on said column from ascending to descending or vice versa.

Many people still like Windows Live Mail 2012, which is the thing most like Outlook Express, but it's no longer officially supported but does work just fine for POP or IMAP access.  I archived the last Microsoft Essentials 2012 installer, which allows you to pick from among the "essentials" to get only the one or ones you want, about a week before it was pulled from Microsoft's download pages.  You can snag it from my Google Drive, Microsoft Essentials 2012, in ZIP format if you want it.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    A little kindness from person to person is better than a vast love for all humankind.

           ~ Richard Dehmel