Date   

Re: Abby fine reader 12

JM Casey <crystallogic@...>
 

I haven’t jumped aboard yet, but I hear they have great support, so if you bought the product and have tried everything, you should definitely contact them.

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: October 18, 2018 3:19 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Abby fine reader 12

 

Did you try a reinstall of the progtam, if not did you contact the developer? This osunds like a software issue with fine reader to me.

On 18 Oct 2018, at 11:26, farhan israk wrote:

I'm using abby fine reader 12. I'm not able to save file. If I press ctrl + s, nothing happens. When I attempt to close abby fine reader, it asks me I want to save or not. After pressing yes and doing everything when I press enter on save, it shows internal error. How to fix it?


Re: Abby fine reader 12

Sarah k Alawami
 

Did you try a reinstall of the progtam, if not did you contact the developer? This osunds like a software issue with fine reader to me.

On 18 Oct 2018, at 11:26, farhan israk wrote:

I'm using abby fine reader 12. I'm not able to save file. If I press ctrl + s, nothing happens. When I attempt to close abby fine reader, it asks me I want to save or not. After pressing yes and doing everything when I press enter on save, it shows internal error. How to fix it?


NVDA with Links and Attachments Continued

David Russell
 

Hello Everyone,

Gene, I understand what you are saying about links and will send
myself a test message. However, If I copy and paste a YouTube link, or
a specified URL is typed in an email, as I proof-read my email,
oftentimes the word 'link' will not be heard with the URL. In some
cases, people have told me that the URL did not get received by them
as a link, only the URL itself. Moreover, the same is observed to
occur on Facebook.
Test:
www.abc.com

At one point in the past, it seems typed URL's did automatically
appear with a link in one's email and not too terribly long ago..
I'll send this communication to myself as well, thank you.

--
David Russell
david.sonofhashem@gmail.com


Re: Abby fine reader 12

Jackie
 

Farhan, it'd be helpful if you could tell us the error you're getting.
Is this a demo product or 1 you've purchased, because, in the demo,
you can't save files--it's 1 of the features reserved only for those
who buy the product.

On 10/18/18, farhan israk <fahim.net.2014@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm using abby fine reader 12. I'm not able to save file. If I press ctrl +
s, nothing happens. When I attempt to close abby fine reader, it asks me I
want to save or not. After pressing yes and doing everything when I press
enter on save, it shows internal error. How to fix it?



--
Remember! Friends Help Friends Be Cybersafe
Jackie McBride
Helping Cybercrime Victims 1 Person at a Time
https://brighter-vision.com


Re: NVDA STOPS SPEAKING RANDOMLY

Clarissa Mitchell
 

I had this problem a few days ago and wrote to the list about it. I
haven't experienced it since then. Some other trouble I had,
especially yesterday, was that my CPU was at an outrageous percentage.
I ran Disk Cleanup, Disk Defragmenter, and reorganized some files. And
I also uninstalled Malwarebytes. I'm not sure if any of these things
in particular helped, but both my problems seem to have disappeared. I
had a lot of large downloads, especially games. This is just a guess,
but maybe NVDA stops speaking because the CPU load is too high.
There's an add-on for NVDA called Resource Monitor. With that
installed, you can press insert+shift+1 and it will tell you the CPU
load.

On 10/18/18, Christo Vorster <christo@training-innovationfortheblind.org> wrote:
Hi Group



I’m sorry if I missed messages regarding my problem, but I experience NVDA
falling silent every now and then while I am working in MS W, MS Excel,
Outlook, and even when I am playing some games. Regarding the games, I
silence NVDA.



I suddenly thought that it might not be a NVDA problem, but I’m not sure.



I use a Del desktop computer with Windows 10, the latest update, MS Office
2016 and NVDA 2018.3.2.



Regards



Christo Vorster (Worcester, South Africa)



Christo Vorster

Programme Co-ordinator | Program Koördineerder

20 Adderley Street, Worcester

T 023 348 7636 F 086 415 6839

www.innovationfortheblind.org <http://www.innovationfortheblind.org>







Abby fine reader 12

farhan israk
 

I'm using abby fine reader 12. I'm not able to save file. If I press ctrl + s, nothing happens. When I attempt to close abby fine reader, it asks me I want to save or not. After pressing yes and doing everything when I press enter on save, it shows internal error. How to fix it?


Re: Some applications take a long time to close

Gene
 

You could try with JAWS or Narrator or something else.  I would think the usual reason for doing such comparisons would be to try to determine if NVDA is causing a problem or if the problem is unrelated.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2018 12:53 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Some applications take a long time to close

How would I then know if it were closed though?
 Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Sarah k Alawami" <marrie12@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2018 4:44 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Some applications take a long time to close


> Have you tried  with nvda closed? That is close nvda then close
> winword.exe?
>
> On 18 Oct 2018, at 0:08, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
>
>> I'm sure all versions of Winword used to just close quickly but on the
>> current stable NVDA, at least there does seem to often be a several
>> second delay before anything happens after the alt/F4.
>> I looked at the log, but really was no wiser other than watchdog for core
>> frozen in stack was happening.
>>
>> IO - speech.speak (07:52:51.654):
>> Speaking [LangChangeCommand ('en_GB'), u'bowling cancelled.doc -
>> Microsoft Word']
>> IO - speech.speak (07:52:51.716):
>> Speaking [LangChangeCommand ('en_GB'), u'multi line']
>> IO - speech.speak (07:52:51.755):
>> Speaking [LangChangeCommand ('en_GB'), u'page 1  section 1', u'end.']
>> IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (07:52:56.746):
>> Input: kb(desktop):alt+f4
>> DEBUGWARNING - IAccessibleHandler.accessibleObjectFromEvent
>> (07:52:56.786):
>> oleacc.AccessibleObjectFromEvent with window 4391520, objectID -4 and
>> childID 0: [Error -2147024809] The parameter is incorrect
>> DEBUGWARNING - watchdog._watcher (07:52:57.292):
>> Trying to recover from freeze, core stack:
>>  File "nvda.pyw", line 214, in <module>
>>  File "core.pyo", line 508, in main
>>  File "wx\core.pyo", line 2134, in MainLoop
>>  File "gui\__init__.pyo", line 963, in Notify
>>  File "core.pyo", line 478, in run
>>  File "IAccessibleHandler.pyo", line 883, in pumpAll
>>  File "IAccessibleHandler.pyo", line 657, in processFocusWinEvent
>>  File "IAccessibleHandler.pyo", line 524, in winEventToNVDAEvent
>>  File "_UIAHandler.pyo", line 357, in isUIAWindow
>>  File "_UIAHandler.pyo", line 345, in _isUIAWindowHelper
>>
>> DEBUGWARNING - core.CorePump.run (07:52:57.592):
>> errors in this core pump cycle
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>  File "core.pyo", line 478, in run
>>  File "IAccessibleHandler.pyo", line 883, in pumpAll
>>  File "IAccessibleHandler.pyo", line 657, in processFocusWinEvent
>>  File "IAccessibleHandler.pyo", line 524, in winEventToNVDAEvent
>>  File "_UIAHandler.pyo", line 357, in isUIAWindow
>>  File "_UIAHandler.pyo", line 351, in _isUIAWindowHelper
>>  File "watchdog.pyo", line 195, in sendMessageCallCanceller
>> CallCancelled
>> DEBUGWARNING - RPC process 1632 (dwm.exe) (07:53:01.897):
>> Thread 4180, build\x86_64\remote\injection.cpp, inproc_winEventCallback,
>> 66:
>> SetWindowsHookEx with WH_GETMESSAGE failed, GetLastError returned 5
>>
>> DEBUGWARNING - RPC process 1632 (dwm.exe) (07:53:01.898):
>> Thread 4180, build\x86_64\remote\injection.cpp, inproc_winEventCallback,
>> 69:
>> SetWindowsHookEx with WH_CALLWNDPROC failed, GetLastError returned 5
>>
>> IO - speech.speak (07:53:02.019):
>> Speaking [LangChangeCommand ('en_GB'), u'unknown']
>> DEBUGWARNING - IAccessibleHandler.accessibleObjectFromEvent
>> (07:53:02.119):
>> oleacc.AccessibleObjectFromEvent with window 1770350, objectID -4 and
>> childID 0: [Error -2147467259] Unspecified error
>> DEBUGWARNING - IAccessibleHandler.accessibleObjectFromEvent
>> (07:53:02.151):
>> oleacc.AccessibleObjectFromEvent with window 3474190, objectID -4 and
>> childID 0: [Error -2147024809] The parameter is incorrect
>> DEBUGWARNING - NVDAObjects.IAccessible.IAccessible._get_IAccessibleRole
>> (07:53:02.164):
>> accRole failed: (-2147024809, 'The parameter is incorrect.', (None, None,
>> None, 0, None))
>> IO - speech.speak (07:53:02.454):
>> Speaking [LangChangeCommand ('en_GB'), u'(No Subject) - Unicode (UTF-8)']
>> IO - speech.speak (07:53:02.460):
>> Speaking [LangChangeCommand ('en_GB'), u'read only  multi line']
>> IO - speech.speak (07:53:02.467):
>> Speaking [LangChangeCommand ('en_GB'), u'selected 1245 characters']
>> IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (07:53:05.035):
>> Input: kb(desktop):control+alt+r
>> DEBUG - appModuleHandler.cleanup (07:53:05.091):
>> application winword closed
>> IO - speech.speak (07:53:05.107):
>> Speaking [LangChangeCommand ('en_GB'), u'Taskbar']
>> IO - speech.speak (07:53:05.198):
>> Speaking [LangChangeCommand ('en_GB'), u'reboot nvda with log  terminal']
>> IO - speech.speak (07:53:05.198):
>> Speaking [LangChangeCommand ('en_GB'), u'80 space', u'blank']
>> INFO - core.main (07:53:05.374):
>> Exiting
>>
>>
>> bglists@...
>> Sent via blueyonder.
>> Please address personal E-mail to:-
>> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
>> in the display name field.
>>
>>
>
>
>




Re: determining the color of a text in Excel with NVDA

Gene
 

But that is in the before computer age, where different ways of representing some things were dominant or used without meaningful competition from others.  The medium is the message.
 
As new mediums are available or technology changes old ones, new methods of representation may become widely used because they can conveniently be now and may be prefered, at least by many people..
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2018 12:52 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] determining the color of a text in Excel with NVDA

Lets not get into an argument over it. Seems to me that if we have been
given a minus sign, we should actually use it!
 Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Vogel" <britechguy@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2018 2:26 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] determining the color of a text in Excel with NVDA


On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 02:32 AM, Brian's Mail list account wrote:

>
> Yes which is why I'd want to know, not by a stupid colour but by a minus
> sign.

How nice for you. That doesn't change one of the common conventions that has
been used for a very, very long time. The problem here lies not with the use
of color.

--

Brian *-* Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763

*The terrible state of public education has paid huge dividends in
ignorance. Huge. We now have a country that can be told blatant lies —
easily checkable, blatant lies — and I’m not talking about the covert
workings of the CIA. When we have a terrorist attack, on September 11, 2001
with 19 men — 15 of them are Saudis — and five minutes later the whole
country thinks they’re from Iraq — how can you have faith in the public?
This is an easily checkable fact. The whole country is like the O.J. Simpson
jurors.*

~ Fran Lebowitz in Ruminator Magazine interview with Susannah McNeely
(Aug/Sept 2005)







Re: determining the color of a text in Excel with NVDA

Gene
 

I'm not discussing when it is appropriate for a manufacturer to state a program is accessible.  and certainly, it is common for accessibility to be improperly or incompletely implemented.  I'm saying that if blind people who want to use a wide variety of programs learn to try different things and look around effectively, they will be able to use a lot of programs they either can't otherwise or not nearly as effectively. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2018 12:50 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] determining the color of a text in Excel with NVDA

I do also think, though that when you listen to people from companies like
Microsoft saying they have made this or that accessible, it should be so,
not need the person to be trying lots of different ways to make work
something which does not.
 I'm not criticising you, just saying that there are mitigating
circumstances and we are still battling against the problem of the
manufacturer not understanding the problem for us that speech is a narrow
band  feedback system unlike sight.
 Lets  use as an Example the continuously changing Skype problems as an
example!
 Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <gsasner@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2018 1:17 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] determining the color of a text in Excel with NVDA


You are evidently talking about looking at dates in the calendar in the XP
System Restore.  This shows the importance of looking at interfaces and
finding alternative ways of doing something if they exist.  XP has a show
next and show previous day button.  it also has a show next and previous
month button.  I never used the calendar.  I used these buttons.  If I
wanted to go back two or three days, I would press the show previous day
button two times if I wanted to go back two days or three times if I wanted
to go back three days.  Then, any restore point or points would be shown as
links.  It is a web-page-like interface.  Never assume what is or isn't in
an interface.  And if one screen-reader just says button, button, try
another.  I believe that NVDA didn't see the labels for all of the buttons
in System Restore.  I'm explaining all this not because a lot of people use
XP any longer.  I'm explaining it to show how, if people assume and don't
try another screen-reader, or maybe two, they may render a task almost
undoable when it's actually quite easy.

Also regarding the buttons, my recollection is that JAWS didn't read the
labels unless you turned off the virtual PC cursor, then it did.  So you
have to do things that wouldn't be necessary if the interface were properly
accessible but it is very useable, though not properly accessible.

As I said, never assume and look around.  Those are very important things to
keep in mind.  I realize that there are people with all sorts of different
skills and knowledge on the list but there are many people who hamper
themselves, sometimes considerably, because they have the knowledge and the
underlying skills but they don't look around and they assume.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
----- Original Message -----

From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2018 1:31 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] determining the color of a text in Excel with NVDA


To be honest, I don't think I've ever seen a spreadsheet where the leading -
sign is missing. If this marking as red is an alternative, it should I would
have thought be expected that  the software would be able to toggle between
marking in colour and a minus sign.


That would seem to lay this particular weirdness at Microsofts door. It is a
bit like the stupid problem in the XP system restore where in order to work
out which dates had restore points you had to find out the style of font it
was written in!

Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2018 11:53 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] determining the color of a text in Excel with NVDA


Hi,

Fixing this will require looking at not only what accessibility API’s say,
but also the object model for Excel and possible variations across Excel
releases (made a bit complicated these days thanks to Office 365 and Office
2016/2019 transition).

Cheers,

Joseph



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2018 3:50 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] determining the color of a text in Excel with NVDA



Mary,

             I just played with this and was shocked that NVDA did not read
"negative" along with the number when this formatting is used.  It is one of
the standard formats allowed by Excel for negative numbers and the fact that
it is negative is something that the screen reader should be detecting.  The
display should be entirely secondary to the actual cell content when it
comes to what gets read.

             As far as I'm concerned this should be considered a bug.  That
being said, Narrator makes the same mistake (which is still a bug, which
I've reported via the Feedback Hub).
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763

The terrible state of public education has paid huge dividends in ignorance.
Huge.  We now have a country that can be told blatant lies — easily
checkable, blatant lies — and I’m not talking about the covert workings of
the CIA. When we have a terrorist attack, on September 11, 2001 with 19
men — 15 of them are Saudis — and five minutes later the whole country
thinks they’re from Iraq — how can you have faith in the public? This is an
easily checkable fact. The whole country is like the O.J. Simpson jurors.

      ~ Fran Lebowitz in Ruminator Magazine interview with Susannah McNeely
(Aug/Sept 2005)




















Re: Some applications take a long time to close

Sarah k Alawami
 

I just use timing is all. If it takes 5 seconds to close word with nvda on and you shut down nvda and close word then start nvda after 3 seconds or what not you will know. You could also use narrator to close winword and know if it still slow at closing.

On 18 Oct 2018, at 10:53, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:

How would I then know if it were closed though?
Brian

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----- Original Message ----- From: "Sarah k Alawami" <marrie12@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2018 4:44 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Some applications take a long time to close


Have you tried with nvda closed? That is close nvda then close winword.exe?

On 18 Oct 2018, at 0:08, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:

I'm sure all versions of Winword used to just close quickly but on the current stable NVDA, at least there does seem to often be a several second delay before anything happens after the alt/F4.
I looked at the log, but really was no wiser other than watchdog for core frozen in stack was happening.

IO - speech.speak (07:52:51.654):
Speaking [LangChangeCommand ('en_GB'), u'bowling cancelled.doc - Microsoft Word']
IO - speech.speak (07:52:51.716):
Speaking [LangChangeCommand ('en_GB'), u'multi line']
IO - speech.speak (07:52:51.755):
Speaking [LangChangeCommand ('en_GB'), u'page 1 section 1', u'end.']
IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (07:52:56.746):
Input: kb(desktop):alt+f4
DEBUGWARNING - IAccessibleHandler.accessibleObjectFromEvent (07:52:56.786):
oleacc.AccessibleObjectFromEvent with window 4391520, objectID -4 and childID 0: [Error -2147024809] The parameter is incorrect
DEBUGWARNING - watchdog._watcher (07:52:57.292):
Trying to recover from freeze, core stack:
File "nvda.pyw", line 214, in <module>
File "core.pyo", line 508, in main
File "wx\core.pyo", line 2134, in MainLoop
File "gui\__init__.pyo", line 963, in Notify
File "core.pyo", line 478, in run
File "IAccessibleHandler.pyo", line 883, in pumpAll
File "IAccessibleHandler.pyo", line 657, in processFocusWinEvent
File "IAccessibleHandler.pyo", line 524, in winEventToNVDAEvent
File "_UIAHandler.pyo", line 357, in isUIAWindow
File "_UIAHandler.pyo", line 345, in _isUIAWindowHelper

DEBUGWARNING - core.CorePump.run (07:52:57.592):
errors in this core pump cycle
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "core.pyo", line 478, in run
File "IAccessibleHandler.pyo", line 883, in pumpAll
File "IAccessibleHandler.pyo", line 657, in processFocusWinEvent
File "IAccessibleHandler.pyo", line 524, in winEventToNVDAEvent
File "_UIAHandler.pyo", line 357, in isUIAWindow
File "_UIAHandler.pyo", line 351, in _isUIAWindowHelper
File "watchdog.pyo", line 195, in sendMessageCallCanceller
CallCancelled
DEBUGWARNING - RPC process 1632 (dwm.exe) (07:53:01.897):
Thread 4180, build\x86_64\remote\injection.cpp, inproc_winEventCallback, 66:
SetWindowsHookEx with WH_GETMESSAGE failed, GetLastError returned 5

DEBUGWARNING - RPC process 1632 (dwm.exe) (07:53:01.898):
Thread 4180, build\x86_64\remote\injection.cpp, inproc_winEventCallback, 69:
SetWindowsHookEx with WH_CALLWNDPROC failed, GetLastError returned 5

IO - speech.speak (07:53:02.019):
Speaking [LangChangeCommand ('en_GB'), u'unknown']
DEBUGWARNING - IAccessibleHandler.accessibleObjectFromEvent (07:53:02.119):
oleacc.AccessibleObjectFromEvent with window 1770350, objectID -4 and childID 0: [Error -2147467259] Unspecified error
DEBUGWARNING - IAccessibleHandler.accessibleObjectFromEvent (07:53:02.151):
oleacc.AccessibleObjectFromEvent with window 3474190, objectID -4 and childID 0: [Error -2147024809] The parameter is incorrect
DEBUGWARNING - NVDAObjects.IAccessible.IAccessible._get_IAccessibleRole (07:53:02.164):
accRole failed: (-2147024809, 'The parameter is incorrect.', (None, None, None, 0, None))
IO - speech.speak (07:53:02.454):
Speaking [LangChangeCommand ('en_GB'), u'(No Subject) - Unicode (UTF-8)']
IO - speech.speak (07:53:02.460):
Speaking [LangChangeCommand ('en_GB'), u'read only multi line']
IO - speech.speak (07:53:02.467):
Speaking [LangChangeCommand ('en_GB'), u'selected 1245 characters']
IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (07:53:05.035):
Input: kb(desktop):control+alt+r
DEBUG - appModuleHandler.cleanup (07:53:05.091):
application winword closed
IO - speech.speak (07:53:05.107):
Speaking [LangChangeCommand ('en_GB'), u'Taskbar']
IO - speech.speak (07:53:05.198):
Speaking [LangChangeCommand ('en_GB'), u'reboot nvda with log terminal']
IO - speech.speak (07:53:05.198):
Speaking [LangChangeCommand ('en_GB'), u'80 space', u'blank']
INFO - core.main (07:53:05.374):
Exiting


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Re: NVDA Links and Attachments

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Yes I'm not sure what is being complained about. If its digest mode it surely is coming in as email and into a client. To be honest I've never tried digest mode, but there is a clue in the name, its a digest, and hence may well just truncate messages.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <gsasner@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2018 6:11 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA Links and Attachments


Thunderbird is an e-mail program. How do you know that you can't just type an address? That should create a link. It is not the originating program that does anything to make a link. The address is sent exactly as you type it. The [person who receives the message sees it as a link because that's how e-mail clients, and, presumably, webmail works. I see no reason and it would actually require changing the content in some way, for Firefox not to allow receiving clients to see these addresses as links. Send yourself a test e-mail and look at it in some way that you know you see links.

Gene
----- Original Message -----


From: David Russell
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2018 11:22 AM
To: nvda
Subject: [nvda] NVDA Links and Attachments


Hello Everyone,

Last evening, the digest form of the email, 3,526, omitted numbers
four and five from the body of the email: my topic, NVDA Links and
Attachments, and some other topic. It ends with NVDA and Eclipse being
discussed.

I think the digest only allows for so much space for body content.

I am going to write the folks who produce Intopia, and see if they can
make recommends, or if someone here wants to write me off group,
please do.
The questions are:
Opening attachments in GMail with other options than View As HTML. Is
Thunderbird an email program or service?
2. Is there any way to add links when typing them in an email if
Mozilla is the browser being used?

I am using the #52 version. Thanks.

--
David Russell
david.sonofhashem@gmail.com
"chilah phanim" Make G-d smile!


Re: Some applications take a long time to close

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

How would I then know if it were closed though?
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Sarah k Alawami" <marrie12@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2018 4:44 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Some applications take a long time to close


Have you tried with nvda closed? That is close nvda then close winword.exe?

On 18 Oct 2018, at 0:08, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:

I'm sure all versions of Winword used to just close quickly but on the current stable NVDA, at least there does seem to often be a several second delay before anything happens after the alt/F4.
I looked at the log, but really was no wiser other than watchdog for core frozen in stack was happening.

IO - speech.speak (07:52:51.654):
Speaking [LangChangeCommand ('en_GB'), u'bowling cancelled.doc - Microsoft Word']
IO - speech.speak (07:52:51.716):
Speaking [LangChangeCommand ('en_GB'), u'multi line']
IO - speech.speak (07:52:51.755):
Speaking [LangChangeCommand ('en_GB'), u'page 1 section 1', u'end.']
IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (07:52:56.746):
Input: kb(desktop):alt+f4
DEBUGWARNING - IAccessibleHandler.accessibleObjectFromEvent (07:52:56.786):
oleacc.AccessibleObjectFromEvent with window 4391520, objectID -4 and childID 0: [Error -2147024809] The parameter is incorrect
DEBUGWARNING - watchdog._watcher (07:52:57.292):
Trying to recover from freeze, core stack:
File "nvda.pyw", line 214, in <module>
File "core.pyo", line 508, in main
File "wx\core.pyo", line 2134, in MainLoop
File "gui\__init__.pyo", line 963, in Notify
File "core.pyo", line 478, in run
File "IAccessibleHandler.pyo", line 883, in pumpAll
File "IAccessibleHandler.pyo", line 657, in processFocusWinEvent
File "IAccessibleHandler.pyo", line 524, in winEventToNVDAEvent
File "_UIAHandler.pyo", line 357, in isUIAWindow
File "_UIAHandler.pyo", line 345, in _isUIAWindowHelper

DEBUGWARNING - core.CorePump.run (07:52:57.592):
errors in this core pump cycle
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "core.pyo", line 478, in run
File "IAccessibleHandler.pyo", line 883, in pumpAll
File "IAccessibleHandler.pyo", line 657, in processFocusWinEvent
File "IAccessibleHandler.pyo", line 524, in winEventToNVDAEvent
File "_UIAHandler.pyo", line 357, in isUIAWindow
File "_UIAHandler.pyo", line 351, in _isUIAWindowHelper
File "watchdog.pyo", line 195, in sendMessageCallCanceller
CallCancelled
DEBUGWARNING - RPC process 1632 (dwm.exe) (07:53:01.897):
Thread 4180, build\x86_64\remote\injection.cpp, inproc_winEventCallback, 66:
SetWindowsHookEx with WH_GETMESSAGE failed, GetLastError returned 5

DEBUGWARNING - RPC process 1632 (dwm.exe) (07:53:01.898):
Thread 4180, build\x86_64\remote\injection.cpp, inproc_winEventCallback, 69:
SetWindowsHookEx with WH_CALLWNDPROC failed, GetLastError returned 5

IO - speech.speak (07:53:02.019):
Speaking [LangChangeCommand ('en_GB'), u'unknown']
DEBUGWARNING - IAccessibleHandler.accessibleObjectFromEvent (07:53:02.119):
oleacc.AccessibleObjectFromEvent with window 1770350, objectID -4 and childID 0: [Error -2147467259] Unspecified error
DEBUGWARNING - IAccessibleHandler.accessibleObjectFromEvent (07:53:02.151):
oleacc.AccessibleObjectFromEvent with window 3474190, objectID -4 and childID 0: [Error -2147024809] The parameter is incorrect
DEBUGWARNING - NVDAObjects.IAccessible.IAccessible._get_IAccessibleRole (07:53:02.164):
accRole failed: (-2147024809, 'The parameter is incorrect.', (None, None, None, 0, None))
IO - speech.speak (07:53:02.454):
Speaking [LangChangeCommand ('en_GB'), u'(No Subject) - Unicode (UTF-8)']
IO - speech.speak (07:53:02.460):
Speaking [LangChangeCommand ('en_GB'), u'read only multi line']
IO - speech.speak (07:53:02.467):
Speaking [LangChangeCommand ('en_GB'), u'selected 1245 characters']
IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (07:53:05.035):
Input: kb(desktop):control+alt+r
DEBUG - appModuleHandler.cleanup (07:53:05.091):
application winword closed
IO - speech.speak (07:53:05.107):
Speaking [LangChangeCommand ('en_GB'), u'Taskbar']
IO - speech.speak (07:53:05.198):
Speaking [LangChangeCommand ('en_GB'), u'reboot nvda with log terminal']
IO - speech.speak (07:53:05.198):
Speaking [LangChangeCommand ('en_GB'), u'80 space', u'blank']
INFO - core.main (07:53:05.374):
Exiting


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Re: determining the color of a text in Excel with NVDA

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Lets not get into an argument over it. Seems to me that if we have been given a minus sign, we should actually use it!
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Vogel" <britechguy@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2018 2:26 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] determining the color of a text in Excel with NVDA


On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 02:32 AM, Brian's Mail list account wrote:


Yes which is why I'd want to know, not by a stupid colour but by a minus
sign.
How nice for you. That doesn't change one of the common conventions that has been used for a very, very long time. The problem here lies not with the use of color.

--

Brian *-* Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763

*The terrible state of public education has paid huge dividends in ignorance. Huge. We now have a country that can be told blatant lies — easily checkable, blatant lies — and I’m not talking about the covert workings of the CIA. When we have a terrorist attack, on September 11, 2001 with 19 men — 15 of them are Saudis — and five minutes later the whole country thinks they’re from Iraq — how can you have faith in the public? This is an easily checkable fact. The whole country is like the O.J. Simpson jurors.*

~ Fran Lebowitz in Ruminator Magazine interview with Susannah McNeely (Aug/Sept 2005)


Re: determining the color of a text in Excel with NVDA

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I do also think, though that when you listen to people from companies like Microsoft saying they have made this or that accessible, it should be so, not need the person to be trying lots of different ways to make work something which does not.
I'm not criticising you, just saying that there are mitigating circumstances and we are still battling against the problem of the manufacturer not understanding the problem for us that speech is a narrow band feedback system unlike sight.
Lets use as an Example the continuously changing Skype problems as an example!
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <gsasner@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2018 1:17 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] determining the color of a text in Excel with NVDA


You are evidently talking about looking at dates in the calendar in the XP System Restore. This shows the importance of looking at interfaces and finding alternative ways of doing something if they exist. XP has a show next and show previous day button. it also has a show next and previous month button. I never used the calendar. I used these buttons. If I wanted to go back two or three days, I would press the show previous day button two times if I wanted to go back two days or three times if I wanted to go back three days. Then, any restore point or points would be shown as links. It is a web-page-like interface. Never assume what is or isn't in an interface. And if one screen-reader just says button, button, try another. I believe that NVDA didn't see the labels for all of the buttons in System Restore. I'm explaining all this not because a lot of people use XP any longer. I'm explaining it to show how, if people assume and don't try another screen-reader, or maybe two, they may render a task almost undoable when it's actually quite easy.

Also regarding the buttons, my recollection is that JAWS didn't read the labels unless you turned off the virtual PC cursor, then it did. So you have to do things that wouldn't be necessary if the interface were properly accessible but it is very useable, though not properly accessible.

As I said, never assume and look around. Those are very important things to keep in mind. I realize that there are people with all sorts of different skills and knowledge on the list but there are many people who hamper themselves, sometimes considerably, because they have the knowledge and the underlying skills but they don't look around and they assume.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
----- Original Message -----

From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2018 1:31 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] determining the color of a text in Excel with NVDA


To be honest, I don't think I've ever seen a spreadsheet where the leading -
sign is missing. If this marking as red is an alternative, it should I would
have thought be expected that the software would be able to toggle between
marking in colour and a minus sign.


That would seem to lay this particular weirdness at Microsofts door. It is a
bit like the stupid problem in the XP system restore where in order to work
out which dates had restore points you had to find out the style of font it
was written in!

Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2018 11:53 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] determining the color of a text in Excel with NVDA


Hi,

Fixing this will require looking at not only what accessibility API’s say,
but also the object model for Excel and possible variations across Excel
releases (made a bit complicated these days thanks to Office 365 and Office
2016/2019 transition).

Cheers,

Joseph



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2018 3:50 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] determining the color of a text in Excel with NVDA



Mary,

I just played with this and was shocked that NVDA did not read
"negative" along with the number when this formatting is used. It is one of
the standard formats allowed by Excel for negative numbers and the fact that
it is negative is something that the screen reader should be detecting. The
display should be entirely secondary to the actual cell content when it
comes to what gets read.

As far as I'm concerned this should be considered a bug. That
being said, Narrator makes the same mistake (which is still a bug, which
I've reported via the Feedback Hub).
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763

The terrible state of public education has paid huge dividends in ignorance.
Huge. We now have a country that can be told blatant lies — easily
checkable, blatant lies — and I’m not talking about the covert workings of
the CIA. When we have a terrorist attack, on September 11, 2001 with 19
men — 15 of them are Saudis — and five minutes later the whole country
thinks they’re from Iraq — how can you have faith in the public? This is an
easily checkable fact. The whole country is like the O.J. Simpson jurors.

~ Fran Lebowitz in Ruminator Magazine interview with Susannah McNeely
(Aug/Sept 2005)


Re: NVDA Links and Attachments

Gene
 

Thunderbird is an e-mail program.  How do you know that you can't just type an address?  That should create a link.  It is not the originating program that does anything to make a link.  The address is sent exactly as you type it.  The [person who receives the message sees it as a link because that's how e-mail clients, and, presumably, webmail works.  I see no reason and it would actually require changing the content in some way, for Firefox not to allow receiving clients to see these addresses as links.  Send yourself a test e-mail and look at it in some way that you know you see links.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2018 11:22 AM
To: nvda
Subject: [nvda] NVDA Links and Attachments

Hello Everyone,

Last evening, the digest form of the email, 3,526, omitted numbers
four and five from the body of the email: my topic, NVDA Links and
Attachments, and some other topic. It ends with NVDA and Eclipse being
discussed.

I think the digest only allows for so much space for body content.

I am going to write the folks who produce Intopia, and see if they can
make recommends, or if someone here wants to write me off group,
please do.
The questions are:
Opening attachments in GMail with other options than View As HTML. Is
Thunderbird an email program or service?
2.  Is there any way to add links when typing them in an email if
Mozilla is the browser being used?

I am using the #52 version.  Thanks.

--
David Russell
david.sonofhashem@...
"chilah phanim" Make G-d smile!



NVDA Links and Attachments

David Russell
 

Hello Everyone,

Last evening, the digest form of the email, 3,526, omitted numbers
four and five from the body of the email: my topic, NVDA Links and
Attachments, and some other topic. It ends with NVDA and Eclipse being
discussed.

I think the digest only allows for so much space for body content.

I am going to write the folks who produce Intopia, and see if they can
make recommends, or if someone here wants to write me off group,
please do.
The questions are:
Opening attachments in GMail with other options than View As HTML. Is
Thunderbird an email program or service?
2. Is there any way to add links when typing them in an email if
Mozilla is the browser being used?

I am using the #52 version. Thanks.

--
David Russell
david.sonofhashem@gmail.com
"chilah phanim" Make G-d smile!


Re: nvda and google docs sheets and slides

Sarah k Alawami
 

My problem is I've read the documentation and none of the keyboard short cuts work for mac os and google chrome. I reported this about 2-4 years ago but still have had no luck. It is still as inaccessible as ever, and forget about google forms. Those are inaccessible to create. I should know, I tried, about 3 months ago.

On 18 Oct 2018, at 0:32, Sylvie Duchateau wrote:

Hello all,

I use Google Docs and Sheets both with Firefox and Chrome and NVDA without any difficulties.

I had some language issues in Chrome, that I reported to the Google Diasability accessibility team, and it was corrected with Chrome's last version.

Best

Sylvie




Le 17/10/2018 à 22:55, Sarah k Alawami a écrit :
I also could not, not on chrome, firefox, safari, or edge. And this over 2 years of trying. I talked to the google srep that was at one of our conventions in 2014 and all I got were a horable pair of free headphones and a "we'll look into it."

On 17 Oct 2018, at 12:23, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:

I'd imagine it has to be Chrome, but to be honest. I could not get on with Google docs myself. Too laggy and awkward, but then, that might just be me!
Brian

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----- Original Message ----- From: "Josh Kennedy" <joshknnd1982@...>
To: <nvda@groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2018 2:48 PM
Subject: [nvda] nvda and google docs sheets and slides


Hi,

What wweb browser works best with google docs sheets and slides? Freedom scientific said to use firefox, but that document came out 3 or so years ago, so it may be a little outdated. NVDA and chrome seem to work good with google office, now. Or is the latest firefox still best?

Josh


Sent from Mail for Windows 10



Sent from Mail for Windows 10












Re: Some applications take a long time to close

Sarah k Alawami
 

Have you tried with nvda closed? That is close nvda then close winword.exe?

On 18 Oct 2018, at 0:08, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:

I'm sure all versions of Winword used to just close quickly but on the current stable NVDA, at least there does seem to often be a several second delay before anything happens after the alt/F4.
I looked at the log, but really was no wiser other than watchdog for core frozen in stack was happening.

IO - speech.speak (07:52:51.654):
Speaking [LangChangeCommand ('en_GB'), u'bowling cancelled.doc - Microsoft Word']
IO - speech.speak (07:52:51.716):
Speaking [LangChangeCommand ('en_GB'), u'multi line']
IO - speech.speak (07:52:51.755):
Speaking [LangChangeCommand ('en_GB'), u'page 1 section 1', u'end.']
IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (07:52:56.746):
Input: kb(desktop):alt+f4
DEBUGWARNING - IAccessibleHandler.accessibleObjectFromEvent (07:52:56.786):
oleacc.AccessibleObjectFromEvent with window 4391520, objectID -4 and childID 0: [Error -2147024809] The parameter is incorrect
DEBUGWARNING - watchdog._watcher (07:52:57.292):
Trying to recover from freeze, core stack:
File "nvda.pyw", line 214, in <module>
File "core.pyo", line 508, in main
File "wx\core.pyo", line 2134, in MainLoop
File "gui\__init__.pyo", line 963, in Notify
File "core.pyo", line 478, in run
File "IAccessibleHandler.pyo", line 883, in pumpAll
File "IAccessibleHandler.pyo", line 657, in processFocusWinEvent
File "IAccessibleHandler.pyo", line 524, in winEventToNVDAEvent
File "_UIAHandler.pyo", line 357, in isUIAWindow
File "_UIAHandler.pyo", line 345, in _isUIAWindowHelper

DEBUGWARNING - core.CorePump.run (07:52:57.592):
errors in this core pump cycle
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "core.pyo", line 478, in run
File "IAccessibleHandler.pyo", line 883, in pumpAll
File "IAccessibleHandler.pyo", line 657, in processFocusWinEvent
File "IAccessibleHandler.pyo", line 524, in winEventToNVDAEvent
File "_UIAHandler.pyo", line 357, in isUIAWindow
File "_UIAHandler.pyo", line 351, in _isUIAWindowHelper
File "watchdog.pyo", line 195, in sendMessageCallCanceller
CallCancelled
DEBUGWARNING - RPC process 1632 (dwm.exe) (07:53:01.897):
Thread 4180, build\x86_64\remote\injection.cpp, inproc_winEventCallback, 66:
SetWindowsHookEx with WH_GETMESSAGE failed, GetLastError returned 5

DEBUGWARNING - RPC process 1632 (dwm.exe) (07:53:01.898):
Thread 4180, build\x86_64\remote\injection.cpp, inproc_winEventCallback, 69:
SetWindowsHookEx with WH_CALLWNDPROC failed, GetLastError returned 5

IO - speech.speak (07:53:02.019):
Speaking [LangChangeCommand ('en_GB'), u'unknown']
DEBUGWARNING - IAccessibleHandler.accessibleObjectFromEvent (07:53:02.119):
oleacc.AccessibleObjectFromEvent with window 1770350, objectID -4 and childID 0: [Error -2147467259] Unspecified error
DEBUGWARNING - IAccessibleHandler.accessibleObjectFromEvent (07:53:02.151):
oleacc.AccessibleObjectFromEvent with window 3474190, objectID -4 and childID 0: [Error -2147024809] The parameter is incorrect
DEBUGWARNING - NVDAObjects.IAccessible.IAccessible._get_IAccessibleRole (07:53:02.164):
accRole failed: (-2147024809, 'The parameter is incorrect.', (None, None, None, 0, None))
IO - speech.speak (07:53:02.454):
Speaking [LangChangeCommand ('en_GB'), u'(No Subject) - Unicode (UTF-8)']
IO - speech.speak (07:53:02.460):
Speaking [LangChangeCommand ('en_GB'), u'read only multi line']
IO - speech.speak (07:53:02.467):
Speaking [LangChangeCommand ('en_GB'), u'selected 1245 characters']
IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (07:53:05.035):
Input: kb(desktop):control+alt+r
DEBUG - appModuleHandler.cleanup (07:53:05.091):
application winword closed
IO - speech.speak (07:53:05.107):
Speaking [LangChangeCommand ('en_GB'), u'Taskbar']
IO - speech.speak (07:53:05.198):
Speaking [LangChangeCommand ('en_GB'), u'reboot nvda with log terminal']
IO - speech.speak (07:53:05.198):
Speaking [LangChangeCommand ('en_GB'), u'80 space', u'blank']
INFO - core.main (07:53:05.374):
Exiting


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Re: NVDA and eclipse

Diego Ricardo Matos <diegoricardomatosm4@...>
 

the java 8 32 bit is compatible with NVDA and access bridge, or I have
to install java 7?

2018-10-17 17:51 GMT-03:00, David Apps <david.apps@rnaanalytics.com>:

Dear Diego Ricardo Matos

Thank you for your message.

I have never used Eclipse, so I might be adding nothing helpful, sorry.

The page at the following address recommends installing both the 64-bit and
the 32-bit versions of the Java runtime environment on 64-bit Microsoft
Windows. I do not know whether this will help you, because the reason that
the page gives sounds as if it will not help you.

https://docs.oracle.com/javase/8/docs/technotes/guides/access/enable_and_test.html

" It is recommend[ed] that you install both the 32-bit and 64-bit versions
of the JRE. The 32-bit version only adds support for 32-bit assistive
technology, and the 64-bit version only adds support for 64-bit assistive
technology."

Have you tried any other Java application to confirm that the Java Access
Bridge is working properly? This page suggests using the SwingSet2.jar
application, which you can find in either jdk-8u191-windows-i586-demos.zip
or jdk-8u191-windows-x64-demos.zip available on the page at the following
address:

https://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/downloads/jdk8-downloads-2133151.html

When you have extracted the files in the zip archive, you should find the
SwingSet2 application: demo\jfc\SwingSet2\SwingSet2.jar

I sent a message to this list less than 24 hours ago describing the behavior
I experienced with the SwingSet2 application. Perhaps that would be useful
to you.

However, if you already know that the Java Access Bridge is working with
another Java Swing application, you need not worry about SwingSet2 at all.

I hope that this helps, but remember, I have never used Eclipse, so I might
be unintentionally wasting your time.

Thank you

David

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Re: determining the color of a text in Excel with NVDA

Mary Otten
 

Your understanding is correct, Brian. I don’t want to use a filter. I don’t want to see numbers in isolation. I simply want to be able to read this document and know if the number I am looking at is negative or not. This doesn’t seem like it should be rocket science, but apparently it is.
Mary



On Oct 18, 2018, at 7:47 AM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

Unless I'm misunderstanding Mary Otten's original post, the issue is not really with finding anything, but with actually knowing what one is working with numerically when one simply encounters it.

I was absolutely floored that two screen readers read a negative number that used color-based formatting to indicate the negative state (and nothing else) by what was displayed in the cell in characters, not the actual data value contained in the cell.  That's just wrong, plain and simple, whether we're dealing with a cell that uses a formula to derive a value or is a numeric cell where someone entered a negative value manually.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

The terrible state of public education has paid huge dividends in ignorance.  Huge.  We now have a country that can be told blatant lies — easily checkable, blatant lies — and I’m not talking about the covert workings of the CIA. When we have a terrorist attack, on September 11, 2001 with 19 men — 15 of them are Saudis — and five minutes later the whole country thinks they’re from Iraq — how can you have faith in the public? This is an easily checkable fact. The whole country is like the O.J. Simpson jurors.

      ~ Fran Lebowitz in Ruminator Magazine interview with Susannah McNeely (Aug/Sept 2005)