Date   

Re: The hearing of following controls in NVDA are they in the pipeline? in a future release?

Quentin Christensen
 

Hi Gene,

You can't currently change the ordering of information presented by NVDA, however some of the work we've done recently updating the way NVDA deals with information behind the scenes should theoretically make this possible in the future.

For what information is read, you can adjust this and turn things on and off as desired.  On the one hand, it is not as simplistic as Narrator, but on the other hand, you have more granular control over exactly what is read.  Press NVDA+control+d to open NVDA's document formatting settings.  In here you can turn things such as reporting of headings, text colour, links or tables, on or off.



On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 8:36 AM hurrikennyandopo ... <hurrikennyandopo@...> wrote:

Hi guys


I have been looking through the latest version of narrator that comes with Windows 10 version 1809 I think it is.

I am not a narrator user but was curious to see what type of work they have been doing and if it would suit the needs of a visually impaired or blind person on a public terminal if they are running the latest version of Windows.


But not all public terminals are on the latest Windows 10.

Which was the question asked on another thread for gathering information but this one was to see what type of work they have done that is not in NVDA.



While looking up commands etc and seeing if it will meet the needs for a public terminal if they are running the latest version of Windows I came across the following.

I know these commands are not in NVDA yet but was surprised they were in narrator.


it is to do with the following


change the level of verbosity

 

 

Narrator provides different levels of detail about the characteristics of text, known as verbosity. To change the level of verbosity, press Caps lock + A until you hear the level that you want.

• Verbosity level 0. Hear only text.

• Verbosity level 1. Hear basics such as heading levels, and errors in documents such as spelling and grammar. This is the default level.

• Verbosity level 2. Hear formatting frequently found on webpages and in email, such as bullet styles, text bold, underline, italic, subscript, superscript, and color.

• Verbosity level 3. Hear additional annotations, such as document headers and footers.

• Verbosity level 4. Hear extended formatting, such as font name, size, and other list styles.

• Verbosity level 5. Hear layout and animation information, such as the type of animation, whether a paragraph starts with an indent or not, and more.

 

I was wondering how the work is going on this for nvda? I know at present we can setup profiles but that is more for application like one at a time.


I then came across the following where you can hear what type of control it is and if it is heard before or after like with buttons etc.


Adjust order of context reading for buttons and other controls Before controls

This does not worry me but some people it does if herd before or after.



It gave some options under this control called


Change the level of context Narrator provides for buttons and other controls 2 - Immediate context


the first was sound only, the second was  Immediate context the third was 3 - Immediate context name and type,  4 - Full context of new control


Under the following setting it gave a simular 6 options which was called Change the level of detail Narrator provides about text 1 - Headers and e

if you want to see what i am talking about on a windows 10version 1809 machine in the search box type narrator settings then tab through them for those other settings.

I discounted the stuff nvda already has in it.


Gene nz







--
Image NVDA
        certified expert
Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Re: The hearing of following controls in NVDA are they in the pipeline? in a future release?

 

Hi,

Formatting verbosity: this can be done via document formatting checkboxes (except a few which are combo boxes). At the moment some of us are thinking about redesigning this whole screen.

Focus context presentation: this has to do with what’s called “focus ancestry” where the screen reader will look at object hierarchy for the currently focused control (the path taken to go from foreground window to the focused control if object navigation is used).

Announcing control type before control label: I believe someone did investigate this for NVDA a while back.

Regarding all these: they are not new; they’ve been with us since Windows 10 Version 1703 (original Creators Update released in April 2017).

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of hurrikennyandopo ...
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2018 2:37 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] The hearing of following controls in NVDA are they in the pipeline? in a future release?

 

Hi guys

 

I have been looking through the latest version of narrator that comes with Windows 10 version 1809 I think it is.

I am not a narrator user but was curious to see what type of work they have been doing and if it would suit the needs of a visually impaired or blind person on a public terminal if they are running the latest version of Windows.

 

But not all public terminals are on the latest Windows 10.

Which was the question asked on another thread for gathering information but this one was to see what type of work they have done that is not in NVDA.

 

 

While looking up commands etc and seeing if it will meet the needs for a public terminal if they are running the latest version of Windows I came across the following.

I know these commands are not in NVDA yet but was surprised they were in narrator.

 

it is to do with the following

 

change the level of verbosity

 

 

Narrator provides different levels of detail about the characteristics of text, known as verbosity. To change the level of verbosity, press Caps lock + A until you hear the level that you want.

• Verbosity level 0. Hear only text.

• Verbosity level 1. Hear basics such as heading levels, and errors in documents such as spelling and grammar. This is the default level.

• Verbosity level 2. Hear formatting frequently found on webpages and in email, such as bullet styles, text bold, underline, italic, subscript, superscript, and color.

• Verbosity level 3. Hear additional annotations, such as document headers and footers.

• Verbosity level 4. Hear extended formatting, such as font name, size, and other list styles.

• Verbosity level 5. Hear layout and animation information, such as the type of animation, whether a paragraph starts with an indent or not, and more.

 

I was wondering how the work is going on this for nvda? I know at present we can setup profiles but that is more for application like one at a time.

 

I then came across the following where you can hear what type of control it is and if it is heard before or after like with buttons etc.

 

Adjust order of context reading for buttons and other controls Before controls

This does not worry me but some people it does if herd before or after.

 

 

It gave some options under this control called

 

Change the level of context Narrator provides for buttons and other controls 2 - Immediate context

 

the first was sound only, the second was  Immediate context the third was 3 - Immediate context name and type,  4 - Full context of new control

 

Under the following setting it gave a simular 6 options which was called Change the level of detail Narrator provides about text 1 - Headers and e

if you want to see what i am talking about on a windows 10version 1809 machine in the search box type narrator settings then tab through them for those other settings.

I discounted the stuff nvda already has in it.

 

Gene nz

 

 

 

 

 

 

--

Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.


Re: copying ocr text on nvda under windows7?

Quentin Christensen
 

Hi Hank,

The OCR add-on that you're using uses the review cursor to read the scanned text (that's the numpad 7 and 9 keys you are using to read, but there are others as well).  To select and copy text is slightly differently to normal text.  Press NVDA+f9 once at the start of the block of text to be copied, at the end press NVDA+f10 TWICE quickly (the first time selects it, the second time copies it).  Because in many cases, you may not be able to get past the last character using the review cursor, this method copies one extra character past the selection (just something to be aware of).

For the full list of keys and things you can do with the review cursor, you can find them in the User Guide: https://www.nvaccess.org/files/nvda/documentation/userGuide.html#ReviewingText

As an added bonus, the sample chapter of the Basic Training for NVDA happens to be the one on the review cursor, so you can read that freely as well: https://www.nvaccess.org/files/nvdaTrainingSamples/sample_of_basic_training_for_NVDA.html

If you like it, be sure to consider purchasing the full book, particularly as the chapter after that one covers using object navigation, which is where the review cursor really becomes useful.

Regards

Quentin.

On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 4:25 AM The Wolf <hank.smith966@...> wrote:
Hello how do I coppy the info on a ocr on windows7 and nvda?

I am able to get to the info using the 7 and 9 keys on the keypad but
have no way to get the info that it is ocr and need it for trouble
shooting purposes using linux under a vm

thanks

Hank


--
check out my song on youtube
https://youtu.be/YeWgx2LRu7Y






--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Re: determining the color of a text in Excel with NVDA

Quentin Christensen
 

The use of colour as one way to convey information is not a problem, not only is it useful visually, but it aids in understand for sighted people who have difficulty in other areas.  The use of colour as THE ONLY WAY information is conveyed IS a big problem, and that's what we're up against here.

Technically, if Excel exposes the number, then great, maybe we can use that, but if they do, they probably also expose today's date as 43397 and you wouldn't want that number read, which means an overhead checking every number in every cell while navigating.  Also, since this format can be used for both number and currency formatting, both of those things vary around the world.  If a cell has displayed $23,456.78 in red, the underlying number is -23456.78, but we would need to put that dollar sign and the thousands separator back (remember a user might be reading it in Braille).  Some countries use a comma as a decimal point and a full stop as a thousand separator, so we would need to ensure that was correct.  All of which is why the assumption has to be that the person who set up the spreadsheet, did so in a way that users of the sheet would understand.  NVDA only reads the data it is given, it doesn't try to interpret it - in the same way that NVDA doesn't make assumptions about whether "st" on its own means "street" or "saint" or something else entirely (some synthesizers do, but that's the synthesizer, not NVDA).

I just did a test - I wrote a couple of negative numbers, formatted them in red with no minus sign, and tried:
a) copying the cells and pasting into notepad, and
b) saving the file as a CSV file.

In both cases, what I ended up with was a bunch of positive numbers.

We can't necessarily fix what Excel and content creators have contrived between them to break.

Just to clarify - I HAVE created an issue to ensure someone looks at the technicalities of working around this from our end, and I have also raised it with my contact at Microsoft.  Personally, I think that number format option should be removed from the standard options to discourage its use.  There are just too many ways data can be misinterpreted if conveyed only by colour: screen reader users, colourblind users, people who print on black and white printers.. Actually, in the past week or so I have been to two community group meetings where financial data was handed out as hardcopy printouts, directly from Excel, on a black and white printer.  That wouldn't work too well if this number formatting had been used.

Practically, if I was given such a spreadsheet, once I realised what was going on, I would a) raise it with the person who sent it to me and request they change number formatting to include the minus sign, and b) if needed, ensure NVDA read colour information in Excel - while the argument about red not always meaning negative is true, it is less likely that a spreadsheet which solely used colour to convey negative values, would also use text colour for other purposes on the same sheet.

Quentin.


On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 1:21 AM Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 06:48 AM, Rick wrote:
Clearly, NVDA cannot simply look at the color format to determine a number’s negativity, it must look at the underlying value of the cell.
Which is what it should be doing and should be reporting.  That is the data.  I have been saying this all along.

The visual formatting elements are for those that have vision, the sensory apparatus to apprehend it.  It is to aid them with knowing something about the value, but that is separate from the value itself.

I really don't get what's difficult about this in any way, shape, or form.  If something's defined at the cell level as numeric (regardless of whether currency, etc.) its actual value must be reported accurately.  Since there is one major conventional formatting for negative numbers in accounting that relies on color only, and omits the pivotal piece of information about the nature of the value, it's the value that should be spoken.

Even if custom formatting using color is applied to indicate something about positive values that are out of range (which definitely happens) that custom formatting is not of any use to someone who can't see it, but they would need to know in their heads what the acceptable ranges are if they are in a position where evaluating same were part of their job.

Most of the world is sighted, and the use of color to assist the sighted world is never going to go away, nor should it.  It's a perfectly legitimate tool for the majority of users.  But whether it's used or not does not increase nor decrease the burden on those who have no access to it, as they'd need to know what it represents in context and keep that information in their heads (or another external prosthetic memory) to refer to when dealing with those figures.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

The terrible state of public education has paid huge dividends in ignorance.  Huge.  We now have a country that can be told blatant lies — easily checkable, blatant lies — and I’m not talking about the covert workings of the CIA. When we have a terrorist attack, on September 11, 2001 with 19 men — 15 of them are Saudis — and five minutes later the whole country thinks they’re from Iraq — how can you have faith in the public? This is an easily checkable fact. The whole country is like the O.J. Simpson jurors.

      ~ Fran Lebowitz in Ruminator Magazine interview with Susannah McNeely (Aug/Sept 2005)

 

 



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


The hearing of following controls in NVDA are they in the pipeline? in a future release?

hurrikennyandopo ...
 

Hi guys


I have been looking through the latest version of narrator that comes with Windows 10 version 1809 I think it is.

I am not a narrator user but was curious to see what type of work they have been doing and if it would suit the needs of a visually impaired or blind person on a public terminal if they are running the latest version of Windows.


But not all public terminals are on the latest Windows 10.

Which was the question asked on another thread for gathering information but this one was to see what type of work they have done that is not in NVDA.



While looking up commands etc and seeing if it will meet the needs for a public terminal if they are running the latest version of Windows I came across the following.

I know these commands are not in NVDA yet but was surprised they were in narrator.


it is to do with the following


change the level of verbosity

 

 

Narrator provides different levels of detail about the characteristics of text, known as verbosity. To change the level of verbosity, press Caps lock + A until you hear the level that you want.

• Verbosity level 0. Hear only text.

• Verbosity level 1. Hear basics such as heading levels, and errors in documents such as spelling and grammar. This is the default level.

• Verbosity level 2. Hear formatting frequently found on webpages and in email, such as bullet styles, text bold, underline, italic, subscript, superscript, and color.

• Verbosity level 3. Hear additional annotations, such as document headers and footers.

• Verbosity level 4. Hear extended formatting, such as font name, size, and other list styles.

• Verbosity level 5. Hear layout and animation information, such as the type of animation, whether a paragraph starts with an indent or not, and more.

 

I was wondering how the work is going on this for nvda? I know at present we can setup profiles but that is more for application like one at a time.


I then came across the following where you can hear what type of control it is and if it is heard before or after like with buttons etc.


Adjust order of context reading for buttons and other controls Before controls

This does not worry me but some people it does if herd before or after.



It gave some options under this control called


Change the level of context Narrator provides for buttons and other controls 2 - Immediate context


the first was sound only, the second was  Immediate context the third was 3 - Immediate context name and type,  4 - Full context of new control


Under the following setting it gave a simular 6 options which was called Change the level of detail Narrator provides about text 1 - Headers and e

if you want to see what i am talking about on a windows 10version 1809 machine in the search box type narrator settings then tab through them for those other settings.

I discounted the stuff nvda already has in it.


Gene nz







--
Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.


Re: Best settings to use Windows10's Mail app with latest NVDA?

David Moore
 

Hi!

I use the Mail app all the time, and I definitely have the messages show in conversation view. You can delete a whole group of messages at one press of the delete key.

You have to press the left arrow a couple of times before you read the next message.

The mail app opens the conversation by itself, so you have to press the left arrow a couple of times really quickly and press delete very quickly if you want to delete that entire conversation of messages.

I use NVDA with character typing, so I am not sure about word echo. Sometimes, to read a message, you have to enter on the message, then shift tab, and tab back to the message, press left arrow a couple of times to close the conversation, and press enter two or three times quickly to open the message.

The Mail app s not going to give you the same result all of the time.

You have to get creative and find work arounds as you go to get the most out of it.

You can press the applications key or shift+F10 on a folder, and get many choices like:

Create a sub folder, add the folder to your favorites, and more.

You cannot make rules in the mail app itself.

You have to create the rules on the web site, and they will import into the mail app.

Good luck, and ask anymore questions!

David Moore

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Gerardo Corripio
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2018 4:54 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Best settings to use Windows10's Mail app with latest NVDA?

 

Last night, I debued a new Laptop with Windows10, and am using its Mail app. HOwever I?d like to see what settings you’drecommend to get the best working experience? Firstly let’s say I?reading Emails a thread, and when the thread ends, it seems to put me out of the Email bodies, with the button that in Spanish, atlesat, it says something about Navigation expended, orNavigation contracted.I’d like for the Mail program, like it has donewith allthe Mail programs I’ve used over the yearsI’ve been using Windows, to until I’mdone Reading all the Emails, it’ll take out of the theirbodies. My method is to first delete all the ones that don’t seeminteresting, and only readthe apparently interesting ones. Can this be done? And lastly the most frustratingexperience I’m having with the Windows10Mail app is that NVDA doesn’tread the words upon spacing! Yes I’veactivated and deactivated the option of NVDA+3, with nodifference! So what tips/tricks do you guys recommend to get the most out of Windows10’s Mail app?

 

Enviado desde Correo para Windows 10

 

 


Re: Problem with F12 key

Sarah k Alawami
 

did you disable the clipboard add on that copies the last thing spoken to the clipboard. that is the f12 key by default.

Take care

On 23 Oct 2018, at 13:30, Morne van der Merwe wrote:

 

 

From: Morne van der Merwe <mornevdmerwe@...>
Sent: 23 October 2018 19:17
To: 'National Accessibility Portal mailing list with topics focused on accessibility for users with visual disabilities.' <blind@...>
Subject: Problem with F12 key

 

Hello listers,

 

I have an Acer laptop, latest version of Windows 10, and the latest version of NVDA.

 

When I press F12 in Excel or Word to save a document, the F12 keys makes a high beeping sound.  It doesn’t open the “save” option at all. 

 

Any advice would be apreciated.

 

Kind regards

 

Morne


Best settings to use Windows10's Mail app with latest NVDA?

Gerardo Corripio
 

Last night, I debued a new Laptop with Windows10, and am using its Mail app. HOwever I?d like to see what settings you’drecommend to get the best working experience? Firstly let’s say I?reading Emails a thread, and when the thread ends, it seems to put me out of the Email bodies, with the button that in Spanish, atlesat, it says something about Navigation expended, orNavigation contracted.I’d like for the Mail program, like it has donewith allthe Mail programs I’ve used over the yearsI’ve been using Windows, to until I’mdone Reading all the Emails, it’ll take out of the theirbodies. My method is to first delete all the ones that don’t seeminteresting, and only readthe apparently interesting ones. Can this be done? And lastly the most frustratingexperience I’m having with the Windows10Mail app is that NVDA doesn’tread the words upon spacing! Yes I’veactivated and deactivated the option of NVDA+3, with nodifference! So what tips/tricks do you guys recommend to get the most out of Windows10’s Mail app?

 

Enviado desde Correo para Windows 10

 


FW: Problem with F12 key

Morne van der Merwe
 

 

 

From: Morne van der Merwe <mornevdmerwe@...>
Sent: 23 October 2018 19:17
To: 'National Accessibility Portal mailing list with topics focused on accessibility for users with visual disabilities.' <blind@...>
Subject: Problem with F12 key

 

Hello listers,

 

I have an Acer laptop, latest version of Windows 10, and the latest version of NVDA.

 

When I press F12 in Excel or Word to save a document, the F12 keys makes a high beeping sound.  It doesn’t open the “save” option at all. 

 

Any advice would be apreciated.

 

Kind regards

 

Morne


Re: Switching from Desktop to Laptop Keyboard

Sarah k Alawami
 

Tha'ts true I don't often have time to see the bigger picture. I learn what I can, and tht's pretty much it. I remember when I used to be someoen who coudl read a manual in about 3 hours and memorise everything about what ever it was when I was reading. Now not so much. Lol! Which is why I'm on this list. Hehahahaha.

Take care

On 23 Oct 2018, at 13:10, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:

It is definitely hard to put yourself in somebody elses shoes and if you like, see the wood for the trees without spending a fair amount of time with that person and that is sadly not always possible in these busy days. Its hard also to teach organised thinking. Many people are pretty random and do not look at what they need to do with an overview so they can work to a logical method that shows progress in the learning enough to not lose confidence that they can do it.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2018 4:17 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Switching from Desktop to Laptop Keyboard


Hi,

Most commands that uses Numpad are shifted to main keyboard area on laptop
layout. In a way, the laptop layo8ut commands makes slightly more sense
(especially object navigation commands, but that's a bit ahead of the story
at the moment).

Speaking of commands, tasks and what not: if I'm not mistaken, based on
conversations we had so far, I think you're having a conflict between an
important task or two at hand and suddenly being thrusted into a new screen
reader world. Am I correct? If yes, I advise focusing more on the task at
hand and how to accomplish it using concepts and commands more than keyboard
layout.

To others: some of you might say that it is important to teach people how to
use screen readers and commands. I'd argue that, sometimes it is better to
let people focus on their work more than the technology that gives them
access to information on screen. For this reason, a screen reader expert (or
a prospective one) must not only become a teacher, but also a counsellor
willing to listen, diagnose, and offer pragmatic solutions that fits the
context at hand. Many expert certification programs (including the one
offered by NV Access) tells you how things work and what to do for given
situations (or simulations), but they won't teach you how to become a good
listener and diagnosing issues beyond the technology they're teaching;
becoming a good listener and able to recognize, diagnose, and offer
solutions and advice for issues beyond NVDA takes time to master (and even
if we try to teach uniformity, people have different worldviews within their
minds and souls).

I may need to devote an entire thread regarding what it truly means to be an
NVDA expert and influential add-on developer.

Cheers,

Joseph



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rechell
Schwartz via Groups.Io
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2018 8:01 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Switching from Desktop to Laptop Keyboard



Hello,



I have been using NVDA on a laptop that is connected to an external
keyboard.


I need to temporarily travel, and will need to use the native laptop
keyboard.



Am I need to go through a complete learning curve again ( I see from the
user's guide that many of the commands are different) or is there nay
workaround or tips on this?



Thanks,

Rechell Schwartz

Guardian Life Insurance Companyn

IT - BTS Group UI/UX

(212)919-3853



_____





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Re: Switching from Desktop to Laptop Keyboard

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

It is definitely hard to put yourself in somebody elses shoes and if you like, see the wood for the trees without spending a fair amount of time with that person and that is sadly not always possible in these busy days. Its hard also to teach organised thinking. Many people are pretty random and do not look at what they need to do with an overview so they can work to a logical method that shows progress in the learning enough to not lose confidence that they can do it.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2018 4:17 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Switching from Desktop to Laptop Keyboard


Hi,

Most commands that uses Numpad are shifted to main keyboard area on laptop
layout. In a way, the laptop layo8ut commands makes slightly more sense
(especially object navigation commands, but that's a bit ahead of the story
at the moment).

Speaking of commands, tasks and what not: if I'm not mistaken, based on
conversations we had so far, I think you're having a conflict between an
important task or two at hand and suddenly being thrusted into a new screen
reader world. Am I correct? If yes, I advise focusing more on the task at
hand and how to accomplish it using concepts and commands more than keyboard
layout.

To others: some of you might say that it is important to teach people how to
use screen readers and commands. I'd argue that, sometimes it is better to
let people focus on their work more than the technology that gives them
access to information on screen. For this reason, a screen reader expert (or
a prospective one) must not only become a teacher, but also a counsellor
willing to listen, diagnose, and offer pragmatic solutions that fits the
context at hand. Many expert certification programs (including the one
offered by NV Access) tells you how things work and what to do for given
situations (or simulations), but they won't teach you how to become a good
listener and diagnosing issues beyond the technology they're teaching;
becoming a good listener and able to recognize, diagnose, and offer
solutions and advice for issues beyond NVDA takes time to master (and even
if we try to teach uniformity, people have different worldviews within their
minds and souls).

I may need to devote an entire thread regarding what it truly means to be an
NVDA expert and influential add-on developer.

Cheers,

Joseph



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rechell
Schwartz via Groups.Io
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2018 8:01 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Switching from Desktop to Laptop Keyboard



Hello,



I have been using NVDA on a laptop that is connected to an external
keyboard.


I need to temporarily travel, and will need to use the native laptop
keyboard.



Am I need to go through a complete learning curve again ( I see from the
user's guide that many of the commands are different) or is there nay
workaround or tips on this?



Thanks,

Rechell Schwartz

Guardian Life Insurance Companyn

IT - BTS Group UI/UX

(212)919-3853



_____





----------------------------------------- This message, and any attachments
to it, may contain information that is privileged, confidential, and exempt
from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this message is not
the intended recipient, you are notified that any use, dissemination,
distribution, copying, or communication of this message is strictly
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Re: Switching from Desktop to Laptop Keyboard

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Each to their own we are all different.

I did try the laptop on a machine we have that logs in postal wallets, but as I use a desktop at home it just confused the heck out of my brain!
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Sarah k Alawami" <marrie12@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2018 5:37 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Switching from Desktop to Laptop Keyboard


I never use the dekstop layout and my lpatop has a number pad. I refuse
to use the desktop as the keys are easier to reach and the configuration
just makes more sense to me. The switch should be easy and the
learningn curve is not that hard, if you practice.

On 23 Oct 2018, at 8:05, Brian Vogel wrote:

Rechell,

What is the make & model of the laptop? You
should only need to switch to laptop layout if it's a smaller/older
laptop that does not have a numberpad as part of the built-in
keyboard. You also have the option of acquiring an external
numberpad, and they're cheap and small, if you want some thing
portable for travel and happen to have a laptop sans number pad on the
keyboard.

--

Brian *-* Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763

*The terrible state of public education has paid huge dividends in
ignorance. Huge. We now have a country that can be told blatant
lies — easily checkable, blatant lies — and I’m not talking
about the covert workings of the CIA. When we have a terrorist attack,
on September 11, 2001 with 19 men — 15 of them are Saudis — and
five minutes later the whole country thinks they’re from Iraq —
how can you have faith in the public? This is an easily checkable
fact. The whole country is like the O.J. Simpson jurors.*

~ Fran Lebowitz in Ruminator Magazine interview with
Susannah McNeely (Aug/Sept 2005)





Re: Switching from Desktop to Laptop Keyboard

Sarah k Alawami
 

Nah I'm good. The keys really are easier for me to reach with my small ish hands and my long ish fingers. He less hand movement I need to do the better. I've ben on a laptop probably since 2002 and that's all I know. I've always had issues with desktop layouts and never ever learn them.

On 23 Oct 2018, at 10:23, Chris via Groups.Io wrote:

Same here, my laptop has a keypad also,

If you can get away with just using the desktop layout then stick with that option short term

 

 

From: Sarah k Alawami
Sent: 23 October 2018 17:37
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Switching from Desktop to Laptop Keyboard

 

I never use the dekstop layout and my lpatop has a number pad. I refuse to use the desktop as the keys are easier to reach and the configuration just makes more sense to me. The switch should be easy and the learningn curve is not that hard, if you practice.

On 23 Oct 2018, at 8:05, Brian Vogel wrote:

Rechell,

           What is the make & model of the laptop?   You should only need to switch to laptop layout if it's a smaller/older laptop that does not have a numberpad as part of the built-in keyboard.  You also have the option of acquiring an external numberpad, and they're cheap and small, if you want some thing portable for travel and happen to have a laptop sans number pad on the keyboard.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

The terrible state of public education has paid huge dividends in ignorance.  Huge.  We now have a country that can be told blatant lies — easily checkable, blatant lies — and I’m not talking about the covert workings of the CIA. When we have a terrorist attack, on September 11, 2001 with 19 men — 15 of them are Saudis — and five minutes later the whole country thinks they’re from Iraq — how can you have faith in the public? This is an easily checkable fact. The whole country is like the O.J. Simpson jurors.

      ~ Fran Lebowitz in Ruminator Magazine interview with Susannah McNeely (Aug/Sept 2005)

 

 

 


copying ocr text on nvda under windows7?

 

Hello how do I coppy the info on a ocr on windows7 and nvda?

I am able to get to the info using the 7 and 9 keys on the keypad but have no way to get the info that it is ocr and need it for trouble shooting purposes using linux under a vm

thanks

Hank


--
check out my song on youtube
https://youtu.be/YeWgx2LRu7Y


Re: Switching from Desktop to Laptop Keyboard

Chris
 

Same here, my laptop has a keypad also,

If you can get away with just using the desktop layout then stick with that option short term

 

 

From: Sarah k Alawami
Sent: 23 October 2018 17:37
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Switching from Desktop to Laptop Keyboard

 

I never use the dekstop layout and my lpatop has a number pad. I refuse to use the desktop as the keys are easier to reach and the configuration just makes more sense to me. The switch should be easy and the learningn curve is not that hard, if you practice.

On 23 Oct 2018, at 8:05, Brian Vogel wrote:

Rechell,

           What is the make & model of the laptop?   You should only need to switch to laptop layout if it's a smaller/older laptop that does not have a numberpad as part of the built-in keyboard.  You also have the option of acquiring an external numberpad, and they're cheap and small, if you want some thing portable for travel and happen to have a laptop sans number pad on the keyboard.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

The terrible state of public education has paid huge dividends in ignorance.  Huge.  We now have a country that can be told blatant lies — easily checkable, blatant lies — and I’m not talking about the covert workings of the CIA. When we have a terrorist attack, on September 11, 2001 with 19 men — 15 of them are Saudis — and five minutes later the whole country thinks they’re from Iraq — how can you have faith in the public? This is an easily checkable fact. The whole country is like the O.J. Simpson jurors.

      ~ Fran Lebowitz in Ruminator Magazine interview with Susannah McNeely (Aug/Sept 2005)

 

 

 


Re: Switching from Desktop to Laptop Keyboard

 

On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 12:37 PM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
The switch should be easy and the learning curve is not that hard, if you practice.
Speak for yourself on that count.

I have no issue with anyone preferring one layout over the other, and those who learned under and use the laptop layout (for whatever reason) tend to be driven crazy by the desktop layout and vice versa.

I have yet to encounter someone who doesn't find the learning curve maddening and long if they are forced to switch from one layout to another.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

The terrible state of public education has paid huge dividends in ignorance.  Huge.  We now have a country that can be told blatant lies — easily checkable, blatant lies — and I’m not talking about the covert workings of the CIA. When we have a terrorist attack, on September 11, 2001 with 19 men — 15 of them are Saudis — and five minutes later the whole country thinks they’re from Iraq — how can you have faith in the public? This is an easily checkable fact. The whole country is like the O.J. Simpson jurors.

      ~ Fran Lebowitz in Ruminator Magazine interview with Susannah McNeely (Aug/Sept 2005)

 

 


Re: Switching from Desktop to Laptop Keyboard

Sarah k Alawami
 

I never use the dekstop layout and my lpatop has a number pad. I refuse to use the desktop as the keys are easier to reach and the configuration just makes more sense to me. The switch should be easy and the learningn curve is not that hard, if you practice.

On 23 Oct 2018, at 8:05, Brian Vogel wrote:

Rechell,

           What is the make & model of the laptop?   You should only need to switch to laptop layout if it's a smaller/older laptop that does not have a numberpad as part of the built-in keyboard.  You also have the option of acquiring an external numberpad, and they're cheap and small, if you want some thing portable for travel and happen to have a laptop sans number pad on the keyboard.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

The terrible state of public education has paid huge dividends in ignorance.  Huge.  We now have a country that can be told blatant lies — easily checkable, blatant lies — and I’m not talking about the covert workings of the CIA. When we have a terrorist attack, on September 11, 2001 with 19 men — 15 of them are Saudis — and five minutes later the whole country thinks they’re from Iraq — how can you have faith in the public? This is an easily checkable fact. The whole country is like the O.J. Simpson jurors.

      ~ Fran Lebowitz in Ruminator Magazine interview with Susannah McNeely (Aug/Sept 2005)

 

 


Re: Sometimes I Can't Stop NVDA

Sarah k Alawami
 

Since I don't have a shortcut on the desktop I just hit windows r, type nvda -r and it restarts with in about 2 seconds if all is well with my confuser. Lol!

Take care

On 22 Oct 2018, at 15:11, David Moore wrote:

You are so welcome!

I could not use NVDA without that command at least three times a day!

LOL!

David Moore

 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Rechell Schwartz via Groups.Io
Sent: Monday, October 22, 2018 5:41 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Sometimes I Can't Stop NVDA

 

Hi David,

 

Your tip was very helpful. I didn’t realize there was a command to restart NVDA!

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of David Moore
Sent: Monday, October 22, 2018 5:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Sometimes I Can't Stop NVDA

 

[EXTERNAL]

 

Hi!

I have had all of these problems on Windows 10 latest build insider, 18262. I have to keep pressing Alt+Ctrl+N a lot to restart NVDA.

On many websites, in the mail app, and many other places, it will keep talking, and I can do nothing at that point but press the restart command. Also, NVDA gets more sluggish in the mail app, and it will not open messages unless I press enter many times.

I just wanted to point all of this out!

I have tried many synthesizers, and NVDA has the same behavior.

David Moore

 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Gene
Sent: Monday, October 22, 2018 2:56 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Sometimes I Can't Stop NVDA

 

I don't use Windows 10 but this doesn't sound like normal behavior.  It sounds like a buffer overflow problem to me.  What voice are you using?  Using a different synthesizer might solve the problem.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Monday, October 22, 2018 11:15 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Sometimes I Can't Stop NVDA

 

OK. How can I get to a new menu when NVDA is acting this way? I can't seem to bring up anything when NVDA is in this mode. For example, it ignore Insert + N, or even Insert + Q.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Monday, October 22, 2018 12:08 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Sometimes I Can't Stop NVDA


[EXTERNAL]

Yes sometimes it seems that nvda is reading an old buffer. I seem to think some recent work is going on in this regard actually, but normally, simply bringing up a menu, then cancelling it will wake up the new buffer. I'm not sure why this sometimes happens but suspect nvda is reading a large amount of text its already  buffered for reading and has missed the fact that the text has gone as this is in the web page buffer, not the nvda speech one.
 As for announcing about emails coming in, this is what segregated people might see in the tray or via a balloon or whatever alert type is used. I suspect that this can be turned off in two ways, You can do it globally in the settings of nvda, which in my view is dangerous, or in the software that is sending them, ie do not put alerts in ... add where according to the software here!

Dropbox is always doing this as its active all the time and if you have shared folders when somebody changes something on one of those you get an alert about it.
 Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rechell Schwartz via Groups.Io" <rechell_schwartz@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, October 22, 2018 4:50 PM
Subject: [nvda] Sometimes I Can't Stop NVDA


Hello,

Is there anyway to stop NVDA from start announcing my emails when I am
viewing a web page?
Also, when I switch to another web page, it still keep reading out the
contents of the previous web page. What do I need to do to get NVDA to
cancel the old context and switch to the new context?

----------------------------------------------------------------------


----------------------------------------- This message, and any attachments
to it, may contain information that is privileged, confidential, and exempt
from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this message is not
the intended recipient, you are notified that any use, dissemination,
distribution, copying, or communication of this message is strictly
prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify the
sender immediately by return e-mail and delete the message and any
attachments. Thank you.









----------------------------------------------------------------------

 
----------------------------------------- This message, and any attachments to it, may contain information that is privileged, confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that any use, dissemination, distribution, copying, or communication of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete the message and any attachments. Thank you.

 

 


Re: can't exit out of winamp

Gene
 

One person said that the new version of Winamp isn't ready for prime time.  We don't know that.  You can't base any conclusion on one person's experience in terms of performance.  That's why there are betas.  A program may run well on many machines but have a bug or bugs on other machines.  A lot of machines need to be used to evaluate a program's performance and look for possible bugs.  One person having problems tells us nothing.  Is this the experience of one person whidch is so unrepresentative that the problems are not even remotely more general?  Are they problems a small number of users have that need to be addressed but that most won't have?  Are they wider spread? 
 
At this point, we have generally seen favorable comments from the small number that have appeared on list.  If more people have bad experiences that will be good to know about.  So far, we can conclude nothing from one person's report alone of such problems.
 
Gene
 


Re: Switching from Desktop to Laptop Keyboard

 

Hi,

This works if the laptop keyboard has an embedded numpad. I know at least one brand that doesn’t even include an embedded numpad (ThinkPad is a notable case). I think, at this point, we may need more info from Rechell regarding what computer she’s got and tasks at hand.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2018 8:35 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Switching from Desktop to Laptop Keyboard

 

Joseph,

          Not that all you say is not true, but given the dearth of information we have about the actual hardware being used Ms. Schwartz may be putting the proverbial cart before the horse.  I know a lot of folks who have laptops that, when using them "as though they were a desktop," elect to use and external keyboard (and mouse, where appropriate).   In the case of some of my screen reader users (JAWS or NVDA) they simply presume that if they drop the external keyboard that they must switch to laptop keyboard layout.  That is generally not the case unless one has a netbook, or similar, where the number pad is not a part of the keyboard.  Since I know of relatively few people who have laptops smaller than a 15" screen, they generally have a number pad on their keyboard.

           I just wanted to point out that if the laptop has a number pad as part of its keyboard there is no need to go to laptop layout.  I've never used laptop layout in either NVDA or JAWS and all I use are laptops with their native keyboards.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

The terrible state of public education has paid huge dividends in ignorance.  Huge.  We now have a country that can be told blatant lies — easily checkable, blatant lies — and I’m not talking about the covert workings of the CIA. When we have a terrorist attack, on September 11, 2001 with 19 men — 15 of them are Saudis — and five minutes later the whole country thinks they’re from Iraq — how can you have faith in the public? This is an easily checkable fact. The whole country is like the O.J. Simpson jurors.

      ~ Fran Lebowitz in Ruminator Magazine interview with Susannah McNeely (Aug/Sept 2005)