Date   

Re: bug with new Windows 10 App Essentials

Jacob Kruger
 

John, are you initiating a search from the address bar, or from the text box in the google landing page?


Instead of hitting alt + tab, what does it announce if you hit F6 once or twice, depending on which toolbars you have enabled?


I have just installed updates to win 10 app essentials, just fired up google chrome 69.0, typed a search in the address bar, hit enter, and, it had already focused on document contents, but, at times, when I enter other specific webpage addresses, I do use the F6 key to jump past bookmarks toolbar, and, landin the document itself.


Stay well


Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"...resistance is futile...but, acceptance is versatile..."

On 2018-10-27 10:45 PM, Don H wrote:
Running latest NVDA on Win 10 1809.  Installed update to Windows 10 App Essentials and restarted NVDA as requested.  After seeing this bug I did a reboot of my computer that did not change the problem.
Using Google Chrome in the past I could start Google Chrome type in a search and hit enter.  I then could use the h key to move through the results.  Now the only way to get to the results is to hit alt tab to get to it.  I disabled the new Windows 10 App Essentials and it went back to what I had before.




Re: In-Process for 26th October

Quentin Christensen
 

Gene re your query about whether things which can't be clicked on being announced as clickable has been "corrected", you'll need to check with the web developers.  Technically, it's not an error on our part, as we are only sharing with the user the information the web developer has given us - we have no way of testing whether anything will actually happen or not if you try and activate any given element.  The problem, as you allude to, is that too often things are announced as clickable when they are not and when that announcement isn't useful.  So for now, the best we can do is work out whether users do use it or not as if people don't find it useful, we could uncheck that option by default.  Without opening a Pandora's box, yes we could ask about other document formatting options, or indeed, any options' default state, but clickable is probably the one we get the most negative responses about.





On Mon, Oct 29, 2018 at 3:54 PM Jackie <abletec@...> wrote:
Well, I actually responded to the email that was provided for a
response in the request. I indicated that for me, there have been
countless times when an object was clickable, but because the web
developer in question didn't make it a link or a button, it would be
impossible to know that unless NVDA said "clickable". I did also
indicate that saying it multiple times was beyond annoying.
Additionally, I also suggested that there be a way to toggle the
feature on or off, per user preference. It's incorrect to assume that
because folks didn't respond positively on list that no one likes the
feature. I rather suspect instead that many of us simply used the
private email w/which we were provided.

If web authors would develop according to WCAG, there would be no need
for the feature. They don't; thus, there is. If you're fortunate
enough to visit only those websites that adhere to those standards,
then great. If on the other hand, you find yourself visiting a
multiplicity of sites, many of which do not conform to accessibility
guidelines, then it helps to know that an element can be interacted
with, because all indications are that it cannot.

They were looking for positive responses because they simply wanted to
see if anyone found it useful, & perhaps get an estimate of how many
that might be. They didn't want to just axe a feature because some
folks commented negatively on it. Those who find things useful usually
don't comment, so all they're bound to hear is the negative ones.

On 10/28/18, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
> I don't keep up with current versions of NVDA because I don't have machines
> they are compatible with. In the old days, NVDA used to say clickable much
> too often, repeating it many times before it read the text that was supposed
> to be clickable.  Often, this text wasn't actually clickable.  I don't know
> that because I tried clicking on everything announced as such, but the
> context made it obvious.  Has this problem been corrected?  I would think
> that if it has and only clickable items are announced, this wouldn't be a
> problem.  But perhaps one reason you get so much negative reaction is if the
> problem hasn't been corrected.
>
> But why limit the inquiry to clickable items?  Why are block quotes
> announced by default and lists.  I don't know how others find such
> information being announced by default but to me, it's clutter.  What about
> landmarks?  I never use the landmark announcement but I don't know if they
> are useful.  I also wonder whether, even if they are useful, they discourage
> people from learning how to navigate sites without them efficiently.  My
> concern is that if you become too dependent on special accessibility
> accomodations, where a lot of sites don't have them, it may discourage many
> people from using sites that don't.  I started using the Internet before any
> of these accomodations but when discussions such as this come up, I wonder
> about such questions.
>
> There may be things I don't know such as that a lot of smaller sites use
> landmarks and use them properly but I don't know if that's the case and I
> suspect that a lot of sites don't use them at all.
>
> Gene
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Mary Otten
> Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2018 9:31 PM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] In-Process for 26th October
>
>
> Remember, your request was only four people to reply with positive. How is
> it used for? I for instance don’t like it and find it worthless. But I did
> not respond, because you were looking for positive responses. So the fact
> that you got 50-50 tells me that there are a lot more who don’t like it then
> those who do. Those of us who respected your request are screwed. Get rid of
> it! Or at least make it possible for those of us who have not found it
> helpful to shut it off.
>
> Mary
>
>
>
> On Oct 28, 2018, at 6:54 PM, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...>
> wrote:
>
>
>   Re clickable, the comments from everyone seem divided between "it can be
> really useful so I leave it on" and "it's really annoying and not useful
> most of the time, get rid of it".  I think it perhaps also depends on the
> sites you visit and how readily you turn out of superfluous information
> being read.  A very good example of that people are much more likely to
> complain about what doesn't work than praise what does - I think all the
> feedback we had received on clickable previously had been about how annoying
> it was and that it read clickable when it really wasn't helpful.
>
>
>   Re predictive text Adriani, I must admit I hadn't used it myself until
> someone asked last week and I tried it out.  I think if you are proficient
> with a physical keyboard, it's probably not so useful for an average user on
> PC where you are most likely already typing on a physical keyboard.  But it
> could definitely be a lifesaver for some users so it's good that it's
> there.
>
>
>
>
>   On Sat, Oct 27, 2018 at 5:50 PM Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
> <bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:
>
>     Its better than saying nothing. Sometimes in the shark these are also
>     ambiguous, one suspects because the info exposed on what they do is
>     incomplete and so one has to just indicate they are there to supposedly
> do
>     something. I often wonder at the logic of page design when nobody knows
>
>     quite what they will get when they use a control.
>      Brian
>
>     bglists@...
>     Sent via blueyonder.
>     Please address personal E-mail to:-
>     briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
>     in the display name field.
>     ----- Original Message -----
>     From: "Adriani Botez" <adriani.botez@...>
>     To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>     Sent: Friday, October 26, 2018 10:57 PM
>     Subject: Re: [nvda] In-Process for 26th October
>
>
>     Hey Quentin,
>
>
>
>     I am replying to this e-mail after reading the last in-process.
>
>
>
>     For me at least, saying “clickable” does not help in deducting if I have
> to
>     do it or not. In fact, most times “clickable” does not perform an action
> at
>     all when pressing enter on it.
>
>
>
>     Regarding profiles, i am using profiles for MS Excel, MS Word, MS
> Outlook
>     and Firefox. At work I am using profiles for SAP web based services
> because
>     they have thousants of tables which in fact are only layout tables but
> NVDA
>     recognize them as normal tables. So I have to use profiles to disable
> tables
>     because otherwise I get crazy when navigating through the complex
> pages.
>
>
>
>     Windows 10 predictible text is a new function to me, but I find it more
>
>     useful for tablests and smartfones. I don’t use it on normal keyboards.
> But
>     I guess it is a very good feature for people with motoric disabilities.
>
>
>
>
>
>     Best
>
>     Adriani
>
>
>
>
>
>     Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Im Auftrag von Quentin
>     Christensen
>     Gesendet: Freitag, 26. Oktober 2018 08:20
>     An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>     Betreff: [nvda] In-Process for 26th October
>
>
>
>     Hi everyone,
>
>
>
>     This week's In-Process is out. Today, we have more information about the
>
>     recently released NVDA 2018.3.2, a shout out to GlitchedVision for his
>     innovative fundraiser, and not one but two quick tutorials - on
>     Configuration Profiles, & Predictive Text in Windows 10. Enjoy!
>
>
>
>     https://www.nvaccess.org/post/in-process-26th-october-2018/
>
>
>
>     Regards
>
>
>
>     Quentin.
>
>     --
>
>     Quentin Christensen
>     Training and Support Manager
>
>
>
>     Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available:
>     <http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/> http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
>
>
>
>      <http://www.nvaccess.org/> www.nvaccess.org
>
>     Facebook:  <http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess>
>     http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
>     Twitter: @NVAccess
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>   --
>
>   Quentin Christensen
>   Training and Support Manager
>
>
>   Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available:
> http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
>
>
>   www.nvaccess.org
>
>   Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
>   Twitter: @NVAccess
>
>
>
>
>


--
Remember! Friends Help Friends Be Cybersafe
Jackie McBride
Helping Cybercrime Victims 1 Person at a Time
https://brighter-vision.com





--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Re: In-Process for 26th October

Jackie
 

Well, I actually responded to the email that was provided for a
response in the request. I indicated that for me, there have been
countless times when an object was clickable, but because the web
developer in question didn't make it a link or a button, it would be
impossible to know that unless NVDA said "clickable". I did also
indicate that saying it multiple times was beyond annoying.
Additionally, I also suggested that there be a way to toggle the
feature on or off, per user preference. It's incorrect to assume that
because folks didn't respond positively on list that no one likes the
feature. I rather suspect instead that many of us simply used the
private email w/which we were provided.

If web authors would develop according to WCAG, there would be no need
for the feature. They don't; thus, there is. If you're fortunate
enough to visit only those websites that adhere to those standards,
then great. If on the other hand, you find yourself visiting a
multiplicity of sites, many of which do not conform to accessibility
guidelines, then it helps to know that an element can be interacted
with, because all indications are that it cannot.

They were looking for positive responses because they simply wanted to
see if anyone found it useful, & perhaps get an estimate of how many
that might be. They didn't want to just axe a feature because some
folks commented negatively on it. Those who find things useful usually
don't comment, so all they're bound to hear is the negative ones.

On 10/28/18, Gene <gsasner@gmail.com> wrote:
I don't keep up with current versions of NVDA because I don't have machines
they are compatible with. In the old days, NVDA used to say clickable much
too often, repeating it many times before it read the text that was supposed
to be clickable. Often, this text wasn't actually clickable. I don't know
that because I tried clicking on everything announced as such, but the
context made it obvious. Has this problem been corrected? I would think
that if it has and only clickable items are announced, this wouldn't be a
problem. But perhaps one reason you get so much negative reaction is if the
problem hasn't been corrected.

But why limit the inquiry to clickable items? Why are block quotes
announced by default and lists. I don't know how others find such
information being announced by default but to me, it's clutter. What about
landmarks? I never use the landmark announcement but I don't know if they
are useful. I also wonder whether, even if they are useful, they discourage
people from learning how to navigate sites without them efficiently. My
concern is that if you become too dependent on special accessibility
accomodations, where a lot of sites don't have them, it may discourage many
people from using sites that don't. I started using the Internet before any
of these accomodations but when discussions such as this come up, I wonder
about such questions.

There may be things I don't know such as that a lot of smaller sites use
landmarks and use them properly but I don't know if that's the case and I
suspect that a lot of sites don't use them at all.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Mary Otten
Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2018 9:31 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] In-Process for 26th October


Remember, your request was only four people to reply with positive. How is
it used for? I for instance don’t like it and find it worthless. But I did
not respond, because you were looking for positive responses. So the fact
that you got 50-50 tells me that there are a lot more who don’t like it then
those who do. Those of us who respected your request are screwed. Get rid of
it! Or at least make it possible for those of us who have not found it
helpful to shut it off.

Mary



On Oct 28, 2018, at 6:54 PM, Quentin Christensen <quentin@nvaccess.org>
wrote:


Re clickable, the comments from everyone seem divided between "it can be
really useful so I leave it on" and "it's really annoying and not useful
most of the time, get rid of it". I think it perhaps also depends on the
sites you visit and how readily you turn out of superfluous information
being read. A very good example of that people are much more likely to
complain about what doesn't work than praise what does - I think all the
feedback we had received on clickable previously had been about how annoying
it was and that it read clickable when it really wasn't helpful.


Re predictive text Adriani, I must admit I hadn't used it myself until
someone asked last week and I tried it out. I think if you are proficient
with a physical keyboard, it's probably not so useful for an average user on
PC where you are most likely already typing on a physical keyboard. But it
could definitely be a lifesaver for some users so it's good that it's
there.




On Sat, Oct 27, 2018 at 5:50 PM Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
<bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:

Its better than saying nothing. Sometimes in the shark these are also
ambiguous, one suspects because the info exposed on what they do is
incomplete and so one has to just indicate they are there to supposedly
do
something. I often wonder at the logic of page design when nobody knows

quite what they will get when they use a control.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Adriani Botez" <adriani.botez@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2018 10:57 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] In-Process for 26th October


Hey Quentin,



I am replying to this e-mail after reading the last in-process.



For me at least, saying “clickable” does not help in deducting if I have
to
do it or not. In fact, most times “clickable” does not perform an action
at
all when pressing enter on it.



Regarding profiles, i am using profiles for MS Excel, MS Word, MS
Outlook
and Firefox. At work I am using profiles for SAP web based services
because
they have thousants of tables which in fact are only layout tables but
NVDA
recognize them as normal tables. So I have to use profiles to disable
tables
because otherwise I get crazy when navigating through the complex
pages.



Windows 10 predictible text is a new function to me, but I find it more

useful for tablests and smartfones. I don’t use it on normal keyboards.
But
I guess it is a very good feature for people with motoric disabilities.





Best

Adriani





Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Im Auftrag von Quentin
Christensen
Gesendet: Freitag, 26. Oktober 2018 08:20
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Betreff: [nvda] In-Process for 26th October



Hi everyone,



This week's In-Process is out. Today, we have more information about the

recently released NVDA 2018.3.2, a shout out to GlitchedVision for his
innovative fundraiser, and not one but two quick tutorials - on
Configuration Profiles, & Predictive Text in Windows 10. Enjoy!



https://www.nvaccess.org/post/in-process-26th-october-2018/



Regards



Quentin.

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager



Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available:
<http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/> http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/



<http://www.nvaccess.org/> www.nvaccess.org

Facebook: <http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess>
http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess















--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/


www.nvaccess.org

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess




--
Remember! Friends Help Friends Be Cybersafe
Jackie McBride
Helping Cybercrime Victims 1 Person at a Time
https://brighter-vision.com


Re: In-Process for 26th October

Gene
 

I don't keep up with current versions of NVDA because I don't have machines they are compatible with. In the old days, NVDA used to say clickable much too often, repeating it many times before it read the text that was supposed to be clickable.  Often, this text wasn't actually clickable.  I don't know that because I tried clicking on everything announced as such, but the context made it obvious.  Has this problem been corrected?  I would think that if it has and only clickable items are announced, this wouldn't be a problem.  But perhaps one reason you get so much negative reaction is if the problem hasn't been corrected. 
 
But why limit the inquiry to clickable items?  Why are block quotes announced by default and lists.  I don't know how others find such information being announced by default but to me, it's clutter.  What about landmarks?  I never use the landmark announcement but I don't know if they are useful.  I also wonder whether, even if they are useful, they discourage people from learning how to navigate sites without them efficiently.  My concern is that if you become too dependent on special accessibility accomodations, where a lot of sites don't have them, it may discourage many people from using sites that don't.  I started using the Internet before any of these accomodations but when discussions such as this come up, I wonder about such questions. 
 
There may be things I don't know such as that a lot of smaller sites use landmarks and use them properly but I don't know if that's the case and I suspect that a lot of sites don't use them at all.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Mary Otten
Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2018 9:31 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] In-Process for 26th October

Remember, your request was only four people to reply with positive. How is it used for? I for instance don’t like it and find it worthless. But I did not respond, because you were looking for positive responses. So the fact that you got 50-50 tells me that there are a lot more who don’t like it then those who do. Those of us who respected your request are screwed. Get rid of it! Or at least make it possible for those of us who have not found it helpful to shut it off.

Mary


On Oct 28, 2018, at 6:54 PM, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:

Re clickable, the comments from everyone seem divided between "it can be really useful so I leave it on" and "it's really annoying and not useful most of the time, get rid of it".  I think it perhaps also depends on the sites you visit and how readily you turn out of superfluous information being read.  A very good example of that people are much more likely to complain about what doesn't work than praise what does - I think all the feedback we had received on clickable previously had been about how annoying it was and that it read clickable when it really wasn't helpful.

Re predictive text Adriani, I must admit I hadn't used it myself until someone asked last week and I tried it out.  I think if you are proficient with a physical keyboard, it's probably not so useful for an average user on PC where you are most likely already typing on a physical keyboard.  But it could definitely be a lifesaver for some users so it's good that it's there.


On Sat, Oct 27, 2018 at 5:50 PM Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:
Its better than saying nothing. Sometimes in the shark these are also
ambiguous, one suspects because the info exposed on what they do is
incomplete and so one has to just indicate they are there to supposedly do
something. I often wonder at the logic of page design when nobody knows
quite what they will get when they use a control.
 Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Adriani Botez" <adriani.botez@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2018 10:57 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] In-Process for 26th October


Hey Quentin,



I am replying to this e-mail after reading the last in-process.



For me at least, saying “clickable” does not help in deducting if I have to
do it or not. In fact, most times “clickable” does not perform an action at
all when pressing enter on it.



Regarding profiles, i am using profiles for MS Excel, MS Word, MS Outlook
and Firefox. At work I am using profiles for SAP web based services because
they have thousants of tables which in fact are only layout tables but NVDA
recognize them as normal tables. So I have to use profiles to disable tables
because otherwise I get crazy when navigating through the complex pages.



Windows 10 predictible text is a new function to me, but I find it more
useful for tablests and smartfones. I don’t use it on normal keyboards. But
I guess it is a very good feature for people with motoric disabilities.





Best

Adriani





Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Im Auftrag von Quentin
Christensen
Gesendet: Freitag, 26. Oktober 2018 08:20
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Betreff: [nvda] In-Process for 26th October



Hi everyone,



This week's In-Process is out. Today, we have more information about the
recently released NVDA 2018.3.2, a shout out to GlitchedVision for his
innovative fundraiser, and not one but two quick tutorials - on
Configuration Profiles, & Predictive Text in Windows 10. Enjoy!



https://www.nvaccess.org/post/in-process-26th-october-2018/



Regards



Quentin.

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager



Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available:
<http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/> http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/



 <http://www.nvaccess.org/> www.nvaccess.org

Facebook:  <http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess>
http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess












--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Re: In-Process for 26th October

Quentin Christensen
 

Very true Mary!

Ok, based on the feedback it does seem that there are some users who prefer it is perhaps what I should have said, although as you said, a lot of people like yourself who don't like it didn't respond (and indeed, that is the feedback we had received plenty of beforehand).

On Mon, Oct 29, 2018 at 1:31 PM Mary Otten <maryotten@...> wrote:
Remember, your request was only four people to reply with positive. How is it used for? I for instance don’t like it and find it worthless. But I did not respond, because you were looking for positive responses. So the fact that you got 50-50 tells me that there are a lot more who don’t like it then those who do. Those of us who respected your request are screwed. Get rid of it! Or at least make it possible for those of us who have not found it helpful to shut it off.

Mary


On Oct 28, 2018, at 6:54 PM, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:

Re clickable, the comments from everyone seem divided between "it can be really useful so I leave it on" and "it's really annoying and not useful most of the time, get rid of it".  I think it perhaps also depends on the sites you visit and how readily you turn out of superfluous information being read.  A very good example of that people are much more likely to complain about what doesn't work than praise what does - I think all the feedback we had received on clickable previously had been about how annoying it was and that it read clickable when it really wasn't helpful.

Re predictive text Adriani, I must admit I hadn't used it myself until someone asked last week and I tried it out.  I think if you are proficient with a physical keyboard, it's probably not so useful for an average user on PC where you are most likely already typing on a physical keyboard.  But it could definitely be a lifesaver for some users so it's good that it's there.


On Sat, Oct 27, 2018 at 5:50 PM Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:
Its better than saying nothing. Sometimes in the shark these are also
ambiguous, one suspects because the info exposed on what they do is
incomplete and so one has to just indicate they are there to supposedly do
something. I often wonder at the logic of page design when nobody knows
quite what they will get when they use a control.
 Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Adriani Botez" <adriani.botez@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2018 10:57 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] In-Process for 26th October


Hey Quentin,



I am replying to this e-mail after reading the last in-process.



For me at least, saying “clickable” does not help in deducting if I have to
do it or not. In fact, most times “clickable” does not perform an action at
all when pressing enter on it.



Regarding profiles, i am using profiles for MS Excel, MS Word, MS Outlook
and Firefox. At work I am using profiles for SAP web based services because
they have thousants of tables which in fact are only layout tables but NVDA
recognize them as normal tables. So I have to use profiles to disable tables
because otherwise I get crazy when navigating through the complex pages.



Windows 10 predictible text is a new function to me, but I find it more
useful for tablests and smartfones. I don’t use it on normal keyboards. But
I guess it is a very good feature for people with motoric disabilities.





Best

Adriani





Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Im Auftrag von Quentin
Christensen
Gesendet: Freitag, 26. Oktober 2018 08:20
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Betreff: [nvda] In-Process for 26th October



Hi everyone,



This week's In-Process is out. Today, we have more information about the
recently released NVDA 2018.3.2, a shout out to GlitchedVision for his
innovative fundraiser, and not one but two quick tutorials - on
Configuration Profiles, & Predictive Text in Windows 10. Enjoy!



https://www.nvaccess.org/post/in-process-26th-october-2018/



Regards



Quentin.

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager



Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available:
<http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/> http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/



 <http://www.nvaccess.org/> www.nvaccess.org

Facebook:  <http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess>
http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess












--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Re: In-Process for 26th October

Mary Otten
 

Remember, your request was only four people to reply with positive. How is it used for? I for instance don’t like it and find it worthless. But I did not respond, because you were looking for positive responses. So the fact that you got 50-50 tells me that there are a lot more who don’t like it then those who do. Those of us who respected your request are screwed. Get rid of it! Or at least make it possible for those of us who have not found it helpful to shut it off.

Mary


On Oct 28, 2018, at 6:54 PM, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:

Re clickable, the comments from everyone seem divided between "it can be really useful so I leave it on" and "it's really annoying and not useful most of the time, get rid of it".  I think it perhaps also depends on the sites you visit and how readily you turn out of superfluous information being read.  A very good example of that people are much more likely to complain about what doesn't work than praise what does - I think all the feedback we had received on clickable previously had been about how annoying it was and that it read clickable when it really wasn't helpful.

Re predictive text Adriani, I must admit I hadn't used it myself until someone asked last week and I tried it out.  I think if you are proficient with a physical keyboard, it's probably not so useful for an average user on PC where you are most likely already typing on a physical keyboard.  But it could definitely be a lifesaver for some users so it's good that it's there.


On Sat, Oct 27, 2018 at 5:50 PM Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:
Its better than saying nothing. Sometimes in the shark these are also
ambiguous, one suspects because the info exposed on what they do is
incomplete and so one has to just indicate they are there to supposedly do
something. I often wonder at the logic of page design when nobody knows
quite what they will get when they use a control.
 Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Adriani Botez" <adriani.botez@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2018 10:57 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] In-Process for 26th October


Hey Quentin,



I am replying to this e-mail after reading the last in-process.



For me at least, saying “clickable” does not help in deducting if I have to
do it or not. In fact, most times “clickable” does not perform an action at
all when pressing enter on it.



Regarding profiles, i am using profiles for MS Excel, MS Word, MS Outlook
and Firefox. At work I am using profiles for SAP web based services because
they have thousants of tables which in fact are only layout tables but NVDA
recognize them as normal tables. So I have to use profiles to disable tables
because otherwise I get crazy when navigating through the complex pages.



Windows 10 predictible text is a new function to me, but I find it more
useful for tablests and smartfones. I don’t use it on normal keyboards. But
I guess it is a very good feature for people with motoric disabilities.





Best

Adriani





Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Im Auftrag von Quentin
Christensen
Gesendet: Freitag, 26. Oktober 2018 08:20
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Betreff: [nvda] In-Process for 26th October



Hi everyone,



This week's In-Process is out. Today, we have more information about the
recently released NVDA 2018.3.2, a shout out to GlitchedVision for his
innovative fundraiser, and not one but two quick tutorials - on
Configuration Profiles, & Predictive Text in Windows 10. Enjoy!



https://www.nvaccess.org/post/in-process-26th-october-2018/



Regards



Quentin.

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager



Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available:
<http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/> http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/



 <http://www.nvaccess.org/> www.nvaccess.org

Facebook:  <http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess>
http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess












--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Re: OCR problem.

Quentin Christensen
 

I don't have an answer, but someone asked about this recently, so now it looks like you've worked out what caused it so I'll be able to go back to them with that (unless it was you who emailed me?)  Which speech recognition add-on do you mean?  Dictation bridge?

Regards

Quentin.

On Mon, Oct 29, 2018 at 1:18 PM John Moore <johnm1642@...> wrote:
Hello everyone. I am new to the group although I have used NVDA off and on
for a number of years now. Is anyone else having issues with the Wondows
Speech Recognition ad-on conflicting with the Windows 10 OCR? If I have the
Speech Recognition ad-on enabled and I hit NVDA+r I hear "Recognizer not
found." However, if I disable it, it works. If anyone else is having this
issue, what is the best way to resolve it without having to uninstall the
ad-on? Thanks in advance for the help.





--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


OCR problem.

John Moore <johnm1642@...>
 

Hello everyone. I am new to the group although I have used NVDA off and on
for a number of years now. Is anyone else having issues with the Wondows
Speech Recognition ad-on conflicting with the Windows 10 OCR? If I have the
Speech Recognition ad-on enabled and I hit NVDA+r I hear "Recognizer not
found." However, if I disable it, it works. If anyone else is having this
issue, what is the best way to resolve it without having to uninstall the
ad-on? Thanks in advance for the help.


Re: In-Process for 26th October

Quentin Christensen
 

Re clickable, the comments from everyone seem divided between "it can be really useful so I leave it on" and "it's really annoying and not useful most of the time, get rid of it".  I think it perhaps also depends on the sites you visit and how readily you turn out of superfluous information being read.  A very good example of that people are much more likely to complain about what doesn't work than praise what does - I think all the feedback we had received on clickable previously had been about how annoying it was and that it read clickable when it really wasn't helpful.

Re predictive text Adriani, I must admit I hadn't used it myself until someone asked last week and I tried it out.  I think if you are proficient with a physical keyboard, it's probably not so useful for an average user on PC where you are most likely already typing on a physical keyboard.  But it could definitely be a lifesaver for some users so it's good that it's there.


On Sat, Oct 27, 2018 at 5:50 PM Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:
Its better than saying nothing. Sometimes in the shark these are also
ambiguous, one suspects because the info exposed on what they do is
incomplete and so one has to just indicate they are there to supposedly do
something. I often wonder at the logic of page design when nobody knows
quite what they will get when they use a control.
 Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Adriani Botez" <adriani.botez@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2018 10:57 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] In-Process for 26th October


Hey Quentin,



I am replying to this e-mail after reading the last in-process.



For me at least, saying “clickable” does not help in deducting if I have to
do it or not. In fact, most times “clickable” does not perform an action at
all when pressing enter on it.



Regarding profiles, i am using profiles for MS Excel, MS Word, MS Outlook
and Firefox. At work I am using profiles for SAP web based services because
they have thousants of tables which in fact are only layout tables but NVDA
recognize them as normal tables. So I have to use profiles to disable tables
because otherwise I get crazy when navigating through the complex pages.



Windows 10 predictible text is a new function to me, but I find it more
useful for tablests and smartfones. I don’t use it on normal keyboards. But
I guess it is a very good feature for people with motoric disabilities.





Best

Adriani





Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Im Auftrag von Quentin
Christensen
Gesendet: Freitag, 26. Oktober 2018 08:20
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Betreff: [nvda] In-Process for 26th October



Hi everyone,



This week's In-Process is out. Today, we have more information about the
recently released NVDA 2018.3.2, a shout out to GlitchedVision for his
innovative fundraiser, and not one but two quick tutorials - on
Configuration Profiles, & Predictive Text in Windows 10. Enjoy!



https://www.nvaccess.org/post/in-process-26th-october-2018/



Regards



Quentin.

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager



Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available:
<http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/> http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/



 <http://www.nvaccess.org/> www.nvaccess.org

Facebook:  <http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess>
http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess












--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Re: Thinking of buying a computer

Kerryn Gunness <k_gunness@...>
 


if you ask me, i would say get a lenovo, i use one
its good
aser is also good
i would not recommend asus, because i no someone had one, it crashed after about 2 years
 
kerryn

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2018 7:48 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Thinking of buying a computer

Hi.


Asus might be good, I haven't ever had a mid to high end Asus to compare by.


I have a Lenovo Yoga 2 pro and a Lenovo Thinkpad T480s and both are decent keyboard wise. Newer Lenovo don't have context key, but you can remap another key to it. I don't like dell very much because their sound card drivers use lots of processor and it's just generally grossly inefficient. I don't like HP because I've broken two of them and I've owned two of them. I don't like Tosheba because their batteries are pretty lousy longterm life-wise, I've had a couple of different acers both of which had different issues, butr at least their keyboards were nice, well the one the space bar kept getting stuck and it was brand new. So, they all suc if you ask me, you just have to get lucky and get a good one what ever you go for.


Cheers:
Aaron Spears, A.K.A. valiant8086. General Partner - Valiant Galaxy Associates "We make Very Good Audiogames for the blind community - http://valiantGalaxy.com"

<Sent with Thunderbird 52.1.0 portable>
On 10/28/2018 5:44 PM, Arnþór Helgason wrote:

I am considering to update my Eiser labtop.

Some people recommend the Lenovo computers, but others have pointed out some incompatibility with the keyboard.

I usually use an USB-keyboard and very seldom the built-in board on the computer.


Any comments reganding Lenovo and NVDA?


Best regards,

Arnthor

---



Arnþór Helgason,

Vináttusendiherra/Friendship Ambassador

Tjarnarbóli 14,

170 Seltjarnarnesi.

Farsími | Mobile: +354 8973766

arnthor.helgason@...

arnthor.helgason@...

http://arnthorhelgason.blog.is

http://hljod.blog.is



Re: Thinking of buying a computer

valiant8086
 

Hi.


Asus might be good, I haven't ever had a mid to high end Asus to compare by.


I have a Lenovo Yoga 2 pro and a Lenovo Thinkpad T480s and both are decent keyboard wise. Newer Lenovo don't have context key, but you can remap another key to it. I don't like dell very much because their sound card drivers use lots of processor and it's just generally grossly inefficient. I don't like HP because I've broken two of them and I've owned two of them. I don't like Tosheba because their batteries are pretty lousy longterm life-wise, I've had a couple of different acers both of which had different issues, butr at least their keyboards were nice, well the one the space bar kept getting stuck and it was brand new. So, they all suc if you ask me, you just have to get lucky and get a good one what ever you go for.


Cheers:
Aaron Spears, A.K.A. valiant8086. General Partner - Valiant Galaxy Associates "We make Very Good Audiogames for the blind community - http://valiantGalaxy.com"

<Sent with Thunderbird 52.1.0 portable>
On 10/28/2018 5:44 PM, Arnþór Helgason wrote:

I am considering to update my Eiser labtop.

Some people recommend the Lenovo computers, but others have pointed out some incompatibility with the keyboard.

I usually use an USB-keyboard and very seldom the built-in board on the computer.


Any comments reganding Lenovo and NVDA?


Best regards,

Arnthor

---



Arnþór Helgason,

Vináttusendiherra/Friendship Ambassador

Tjarnarbóli 14,

170 Seltjarnarnesi.

Farsími | Mobile: +354 8973766

arnthor.helgason@...

arnthor.helgason@...

http://arnthorhelgason.blog.is

http://hljod.blog.is



Re: discord accessibility

Mr. Wong Chi Wai, William <cwwong.pro@...>
 

Hi,
Well, really IOS app is totally inaccessible, yet, if you use the app on chrome desktop or chrome on IOS it is accessible in certain way.


Michael Buchan 於 25/10/2018 6:13 寫道:

Hi
  Although I do certainly agree that discord is working on bringing accessibility to their platform (take the IOS app as an example, where a bit less than a year ago you couldn't even read messages and now you can) I must admit, the fact that these features and fixes are getting implemented soooooo slowly warrants the creation of an addon. The fact that Discord is an electron app adds to this, as I imagine, though I could be totally wrong, that most of the information needed is already their, but it isn't exposed through the aria specification in any way, meaning an addon for NVDA to derive this information from what is given out is definitely possible.

  As somebody who loves python, loves open source projects, loves Discord and above all, loves NVDA, I've been meaning to look into addon development myself for a while now and I may use Discord as a jumping off point once I've figured out the ins and outs of developing an addon.

Kind regards,
MCB

On 22 Oct 2018, at 2:24 pm, Robert Kingett <kingettr@...> wrote:

Why develop an add on when built in accessibility is better? The developers are slowly, and I do mean slowly, working on accessibility fixes for screen readers. Contact them and let them know. An add-on can't be created from a totally inaccessible program, one NVDA can't even read. The tweet is below.

https://twitter.com/discordapp/status/867855637736116225?lang=en



Re: Thinking of buying a computer

Arlene
 

Will Acer be good? I have an Acer 7 box. How about a laptop? I know
the Acer tower does not come with an internal card.

On 10/28/18, Michael Munn <michaelrbms@gmail.com> wrote:
I would suggest HP.
I have been using the same HP Envy convertable for 3 years now.
either HP or Dell.
I personally prefer HP.
On Oct 28, 2018, at 5:44 PM, Arnþór Helgason <arnthor.helgason@gmail.com>
wrote:

I am considering to update my Eiser labtop.

Some people recommend the Lenovo computers, but others have pointed out
some incompatibility with the keyboard.

I usually use an USB-keyboard and very seldom the built-in board on the
computer.



Any comments reganding Lenovo and NVDA?



Best regards,

Arnthor

---




Arnþór Helgason,

Vináttusendiherra/Friendship Ambassador

Tjarnarbóli 14,

170 Seltjarnarnesi.

Farsími | Mobile: +354 8973766

arnthor.helgason@simnet.is

arnthor.helgason@gmail.com

http://arnthorhelgason.blog.is

http://hljod.blog.is




Re: Thinking of buying a computer

Michael Munn
 

I would suggest HP.
I have been using the same HP Envy convertable for 3 years now. 
either HP or Dell. 
I personally prefer HP. 



On Oct 28, 2018, at 5:44 PM, Arnþór Helgason <arnthor.helgason@...> wrote:

I am considering to update my Eiser labtop.

Some people recommend the Lenovo computers, but others have pointed out some incompatibility with the keyboard.

I usually use an USB-keyboard and very seldom the built-in board on the computer.


Any comments reganding Lenovo and NVDA?


Best regards,

Arnthor

---



Arnþór Helgason,

Vináttusendiherra/Friendship Ambassador

Tjarnarbóli 14,

170 Seltjarnarnesi.

Farsími | Mobile: +354 8973766

arnthor.helgason@...

arnthor.helgason@...

http://arnthorhelgason.blog.is

http://hljod.blog.is


Re: Thinking of buying a computer

Kevin Cussick
 

Hi, I use 2 lenovo all in one PC's and nvda and have no problems.

On 28/10/2018 21:44, Arnþór Helgason wrote:
I am considering to update my Eiser labtop.
Some people recommend the Lenovo computers, but others have pointed out some incompatibility with the keyboard.
I usually use an USB-keyboard and very seldom the built-in board on the computer.
Any comments reganding Lenovo and NVDA?
Best regards,
Arnthor
---
Arnþór Helgason,
Vináttusendiherra/Friendship Ambassador
Tjarnarbóli 14,
170 Seltjarnarnesi.
Farsími | Mobile: +354 8973766
arnthor.helgason@simnet.is <mailto:arnthor.helgason@simnet.is>
arnthor.helgason@gmail.com
http://arnthorhelgason.blog.is
http://hljod.blog.is


Re: Thinking of buying a computer

Tyler Wood
 

I highly recommend Asus over Lenovo any day.


Best of luck with whatever you purchase.



On 2018-10-28 4:44 PM, Arnþór Helgason wrote:

I am considering to update my Eiser labtop.

Some people recommend the Lenovo computers, but others have pointed out some incompatibility with the keyboard.

I usually use an USB-keyboard and very seldom the built-in board on the computer.


Any comments reganding Lenovo and NVDA?


Best regards,

Arnthor

---



Arnþór Helgason,

Vináttusendiherra/Friendship Ambassador

Tjarnarbóli 14,

170 Seltjarnarnesi.

Farsími | Mobile: +354 8973766

arnthor.helgason@...

arnthor.helgason@...

http://arnthorhelgason.blog.is

http://hljod.blog.is



Thinking of buying a computer

Arnþór Helgason
 

I am considering to update my Eiser labtop.

Some people recommend the Lenovo computers, but others have pointed out some incompatibility with the keyboard.

I usually use an USB-keyboard and very seldom the built-in board on the computer.


Any comments reganding Lenovo and NVDA?


Best regards,

Arnthor

---



Arnþór Helgason,

Vináttusendiherra/Friendship Ambassador

Tjarnarbóli 14,

170 Seltjarnarnesi.

Farsími | Mobile: +354 8973766

arnthor.helgason@...

arnthor.helgason@...

http://arnthorhelgason.blog.is

http://hljod.blog.is


Windows 10 App Essentials 18.11: apparently Chrome users cannot view search results after entering text into address omnibar

 

Hi all, especially those using Windows 10 App Essentials and Google Chrome:

 

I got reports from at least two users who says that it isn’t possible to view search results unless one presses Alt+Tab. The steps given to me are as follows:

 

  1. Install Windows 10 App Essentials 18.11.
  2. Open Chrome and press Alt+D to go to address bar.
  3. Type a search term and press Enter.

 

Expected: NVDA switches to browse mode, thereby letting you use browse mode commands to view search results.

Actual: one needs to press Alt+Tab to switch to and from Chrome in order to view search results.

 

For those affected by this, I’d like to know the following:

 

  • NVDA version
  • Windows 10 release you’re using
  • Chrome version in use

 

Cheers,

Joseph


Re: strange sounds in Windows settings

 

Hi,

Ah yes, this one… Caused by erratic progress bar for volume settings. I wrote a fix for it a long time ago as part of Windows 10 app Essentials add-on.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Giles Turnbull
Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2018 11:01 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] strange sounds in Windows settings

 

Hi all,

I have another curious sound problem with NVDA. Wehn I go into Win10 settings I often get a lot of garbled beeping whilst NVDA is speaking. It does this on my current laptop and it was doing it on my old laptop too.

I've made a short recording as an example becuase it's hard to describe without the audio. It was doing this in the bluetooth settings and the sound settings today.

http://gilesturnbullpoet.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Win10-settings-noise_REC007.mp3

and, in case the post truncates the link, here's a shorter version which you just need to copy and paste into the address bar and delete the spaces: https:// bit.ly/ 2OaTHqv

Is there a reason NVDA does this and is there any way of working around it?

Thanks,

Giles


Re: bug with latest Win 10 App Essentials

Don H
 

Yess with the option for show bookmark bar enabled even if you type in a web address you still have to use alt enter to get to the web page using the h and k keys to review the web page.  Disable the show bookmarks bar and back to normal.

On 10/28/2018 10:17 AM, Gene wrote:
That's good to know.  Now, everyone investigating can be sure they are searching in the same way.
 
Your method and description of the bug raises another interesting question.  If you open Chrome, type an address and press enter, do you also have to alt tab to get to the web page that opens?  This may not be related to doing a search.  It may happen any time you type an address in the address bar and open a site that way.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Don H
Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2018 10:10 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] bug with latest Win 10 App Essentials

To do a search I open Google Chrome.  I then type in something like cookie recipes and hit enter.  I can then use the h key to go through the search results. 
With the show bookmarks bar enabled this will not work and you have to hit alt tab then use the h or k keys to review the results.

On 10/28/2018 10:03 AM, Gene wrote:
Just how are you searching?  If you tell us what you do, it may make it easier to investigate the bug.  In other words, do you type something in the address bar and down arrow or do you do something else?
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Don H
Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2018 9:42 AM
Subject: [nvda] bug with latest Win 10 App Essentials

May have found the issue with using the latest Win 10 App Essentials and
Google Chrome on a Win 10 1809 system.
I have found that if you have Show Bookmarks Bar enabled under the
Chrome settings the bug is present.  Don't have show bookmarks bar
enabled and the bug goes away.
Again the bug I am experiencing with the Show Bookmarks Bar enabled is
when I do a search using Google Chrome I have to alt tab before I can
get to the results with the h key etc.  If I also disable Win 10 App
Essentials the problem goes away.