Date   

Re: wonder vs. wander

Gene
 

I do and many other people do.  When you see the word captcha and you know you intend to use it, it doesn't take that long to check it.  If it does, then the person isn't using the technology efficiently.  It is important for Braille users not to diminish what can and should be done with speech.  That is implying a superiority of Braille which is true for some uses, not true for others. 
 
Note that I didn't say Braille is inferior for any uses, I'm saying that the assumption that speech users must be at a disadvantage in situations where they don't have to be is an unsupported and incorrect assumption. 
 
Gene

From: Tyler Wood
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 1:05 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

TLDR: We're all in such a panic to get things done that no blind person
is going to take the two seconds to see a spelling of an item using a
screen reader. I'm glad braille displays are getting just a little bit
cheaper.


Hi,

This is why it is always best to keep braille around, uncontracted.


Who actually uses a screen reader to see how things are spelled? It is
so much easier to glance (sorry, with our fingers) down at a braille
display, see that their (as belonging) is T H E I R. Rather than
spelling it T H E R E because that's how it sounds.


But, then there is the other argument that grade 2 braille teaches us
the opposite, so who knows. I know my spelling deteriorated when I
stopped reading braille books and switched to audio.



On 2018-11-19 12:45 PM, Shaun Everiss wrote:
> To be honest, we spell how we speak.
>
> I don't say the t in capture or capcha, I know it exists but I don't
> speak it.
>
> Usually if one does not know how a word is spelt he will go how he
> speaks it because it sounds fine enough.
>
>
>
> On 11/20/2018 7:30 AM, Kwork wrote:
>> The only spelling anomaly common among blind people that really
>> annoys me to no end is misspelling captcha as capture. Bad enough in
>> everyday use, but worse when we're filling out support tickets on
>> websites and professional emails, and asking companies to make their
>> "captures" accessible. Um, no. The form that includes an unsolvable
>> by screenreader image verification is called captcha. c, a, p, t, c,
>> h, a.
>>
>> On 11/19/2018 9:54 AM, Gene wrote:
>>> I usually don't spell-check messages.  I read them before I send
>>> them to check for words that sound misspelled but also to make sure
>>> what I wrote is clear, accurate, such as commands given during
>>> describing a procedure, and not clumsily worded.  I may start
>>> spellchecking them as well but my main concern on e-mail lists is
>>> not to have spelling errors that are more than minor and to have
>>> clear writing and accuracy.  Rereading before sending is important
>>> in all those respects.
>>> Gene
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>
>>> *From:* Gene <mailto:gsasner@...>
>>> *Sent:* Monday, November 19, 2018 10:16 AM
>>> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander
>>>
>>> I'm writing as a moderator to explain my thinking about the
>>> message.  Of course, if the owner disagrees, that will be the
>>> controling decision.
>>> While it is generally not done and not considered proper, I think
>>> you are overreacting.  For one thing, I see this error with native
>>> English speakers.  I don't recall seeing it with non native
>>> speakers.  Since this sort of discussion never takes place on the
>>> list, I let it pass.  a little variety is enjoyable and may
>>> stimulate thought and awareness.  No one was flamed.  No one was
>>> disparaged. These days, being offended by everything is a cultural
>>> passtime and fixsture.  I don't see anything offensive in the message.
>>> Gene
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> *From:* Rick <mailto:softwarethatworks@...>
>>> **
>>> *Gene*
>>> *----- Original Message -----*
>>> *Sent:* Monday, November 19, 2018 5:21 AM
>>> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander
>>>
>>> Hello Travis:
>>>
>>> I find your email to be quite insensitive. As you are probably
>>> aware, this
>>> list is comprised of people from all over the globe, many of whom
>>> are not
>>> native English speakers. I am always impressed when people are
>>> capable of
>>> speaking an additional language other than their native tongue and
>>> criticizing them for grammatical mistakes on a list not focused on
>>> grammatical correctness is petty and unwarranted. It is also off topic.
>>>
>>> Rick
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>> <nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>> On Behalf Of
>>> Travis Siegel
>>> Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2018 12:40 PM
>>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>> Subject: [nvda] wonder vs. wander
>>>
>>> Not trying to make anybody mad here, but it really is disconcerting
>>> to see
>>> so many people here using wander and wonder interchangeably.
>>> Wander (with an"A" ) is what you do when you're out and about, and
>>> don't
>>> have any particular place to be, and you just feel like taking your
>>> time to
>>> see what's going on around you.  You wander around, looking at
>>> things, and
>>> simply taking things easy.
>>> On the other hand, wonder (with an "O" ) is what you do when you're
>>> curious
>>> about something.  Yeah, it's ok to wonder about life, the universe and
>>> everything, but if you wander about such things, you may never find
>>> your way
>>> back to your back yard, having being swept off into galaxies unknown.
>>> And, of course, it's perfectly acceptable to wonder about wandering
>>> too,
>>> especially if you're wondering why so many people wander into things.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>




Re: wonder vs. wander

Gene
 

I think one reason people spell it as capture is because many English accents or dialects don't pronounce r's at the end of words.  So captcha and capture sound identical or very similar. 
 
Sighted people who know how to spell or who see daily, that all sorts of names or acronyms are not spelled as they sound, don't do so.  Blind people should be rigorously taught, as a part of learning to use computer technology to check spelling when using names and acronyms except when there is no doubt and no possibility of ambiguity, when using speech.  No one has thought to make this a standard part of training materials.  It is so important that, even if the rest of the tutorial or manual has nothing to do with such topics, there should be a section emphasizing that at the start of all such material.  I wish I had realized that when I created my Internet tutorial years ago.
 

Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 12:45 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

To be honest, we spell how we speak.

I don't say the t in capture or capcha, I know it exists but I don't
speak it.

Usually if one does not know how a word is spelt he will go how he
speaks it because it sounds fine enough.



On 11/20/2018 7:30 AM, Kwork wrote:
> The only spelling anomaly common among blind people that really annoys
> me to no end is misspelling captcha as capture. Bad enough in everyday
> use, but worse when we're filling out support tickets on websites and
> professional emails, and asking companies to make their "captures"
> accessible. Um, no. The form that includes an unsolvable by
> screenreader image verification is called captcha. c, a, p, t, c, h, a.
>
> On 11/19/2018 9:54 AM, Gene wrote:
>> I usually don't spell-check messages.  I read them before I send them
>> to check for words that sound misspelled but also to make sure what I
>> wrote is clear, accurate, such as commands given during describing a
>> procedure, and not clumsily worded.  I may start spellchecking them
>> as well but my main concern on e-mail lists is not to have spelling
>> errors that are more than minor and to have clear writing and
>> accuracy.  Rereading before sending is important in all those respects.
>> Gene
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>
>> *From:* Gene <mailto:gsasner@...>
>> *Sent:* Monday, November 19, 2018 10:16 AM
>> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>> *Subject:* Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander
>>
>> I'm writing as a moderator to explain my thinking about the message. 
>> Of course, if the owner disagrees, that will be the controling decision.
>> While it is generally not done and not considered proper, I think you
>> are overreacting.  For one thing, I see this error with native
>> English speakers.  I don't recall seeing it with non native
>> speakers.  Since this sort of discussion never takes place on the
>> list, I let it pass.  a little variety is enjoyable and may stimulate
>> thought and awareness.  No one was flamed.  No one was disparaged.
>> These days, being offended by everything is a cultural passtime and
>> fixsture.  I don't see anything offensive in the message.
>> Gene
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> *From:* Rick <mailto:softwarethatworks@...>
>> **
>> *Gene*
>> *----- Original Message -----*
>> *Sent:* Monday, November 19, 2018 5:21 AM
>> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>> *Subject:* Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander
>>
>> Hello Travis:
>>
>> I find your email to be quite insensitive. As you are probably aware,
>> this
>> list is comprised of people from all over the globe, many of whom are
>> not
>> native English speakers. I am always impressed when people are
>> capable of
>> speaking an additional language other than their native tongue and
>> criticizing them for grammatical mistakes on a list not focused on
>> grammatical correctness is petty and unwarranted. It is also off topic.
>>
>> Rick
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>> <nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>> On Behalf Of
>> Travis Siegel
>> Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2018 12:40 PM
>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>> Subject: [nvda] wonder vs. wander
>>
>> Not trying to make anybody mad here, but it really is disconcerting
>> to see
>> so many people here using wander and wonder interchangeably.
>> Wander (with an"A" ) is what you do when you're out and about, and don't
>> have any particular place to be, and you just feel like taking your
>> time to
>> see what's going on around you.  You wander around, looking at
>> things, and
>> simply taking things easy.
>> On the other hand, wonder (with an "O" ) is what you do when you're
>> curious
>> about something.  Yeah, it's ok to wonder about life, the universe and
>> everything, but if you wander about such things, you may never find
>> your way
>> back to your back yard, having being swept off into galaxies unknown.
>> And, of course, it's perfectly acceptable to wonder about wandering too,
>> especially if you're wondering why so many people wander into things.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>



Re: [EXTERNAL] - Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

Joshua Crary <JCrary@...>
 

I hardly pay attention to these emails, so I did not know it was in the body towards the bottom of the chain.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Cristóbal
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 2:56 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] - Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

It's literally in the body of every email.

Cristóbal

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joshua Crary
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 11:55 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] - Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

Where do you go to remove yourself from this emailing list?



-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Cristóbal
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 2:51 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [EXTERNAL] - Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

The simple fact is that Beyond the immediate world of family and friends perhaps, not making the effort to spell and punctuate correctly comes off as incredibly sloppy/lazy and good luck trying to be taken seriously. If you're dyslexic, well . . . that's maybe a different ballgame but one doesn't have to be a grammar Nazi to at least try.


Cristóbal

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 11:40 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

Its not just the blind, that goes for everyone world wide mostly at least those of us in the west.

My parients come from indonesia and things happen at a slower pace.

Even here, I try to be reasonably quick, but then I haven't and will probably not ever work in any real business except for myself.

I havn't touched a report or coppy of office since my university days.

And while I have jarte, I hardly read a document unless its for some experiment or test.

Most things are in pdf or text or just online.

And while I don't mind the electronic side of things if I can get into the physical guts of something then I usually do that.

Sadly these days its money, money, money, and fast, fast, fast.

We use automated tools a lot.

Thats fine but we lose something when we overuse those tools.

Sadly those of newer generations than myself are born into the automatic world and have no experience with anything else.

I have known a time before the net and facebook.

My parents have known a time before computers, water and power, radio and tv.

So many things we take for granted.

Any war is far away for most of the new people, me included.

For my parients and others before me, they have known 2 of those.

The next generation will not even have the discussion about anything like this though.

We only care because we know what it was like to have to spell without autocorrect.

Soon enough it won't matter how badly we spell.

Thats sad but true.



On 11/20/2018 8:05 AM, Tyler Wood wrote:
TLDR: We're all in such a panic to get things done that no blind
person is going to take the two seconds to see a spelling of an item
using a screen reader. I'm glad braille displays are getting just a
little bit cheaper.


Hi,

This is why it is always best to keep braille around, uncontracted.


Who actually uses a screen reader to see how things are spelled? It is
so much easier to glance (sorry, with our fingers) down at a braille
display, see that their (as belonging) is T H E I R. Rather than
spelling it T H E R E because that's how it sounds.


But, then there is the other argument that grade 2 braille teaches us
the opposite, so who knows. I know my spelling deteriorated when I
stopped reading braille books and switched to audio.



On 2018-11-19 12:45 PM, Shaun Everiss wrote:
To be honest, we spell how we speak.

I don't say the t in capture or capcha, I know it exists but I don't
speak it.

Usually if one does not know how a word is spelt he will go how he
speaks it because it sounds fine enough.



On 11/20/2018 7:30 AM, Kwork wrote:
The only spelling anomaly common among blind people that really
annoys me to no end is misspelling captcha as capture. Bad enough in
everyday use, but worse when we're filling out support tickets on
websites and professional emails, and asking companies to make their
"captures" accessible. Um, no. The form that includes an unsolvable
by screenreader image verification is called captcha. c, a, p, t, c,
h, a.

On 11/19/2018 9:54 AM, Gene wrote:
I usually don't spell-check messages. I read them before I send
them to check for words that sound misspelled but also to make sure
what I wrote is clear, accurate, such as commands given during
describing a procedure, and not clumsily worded. I may start
spellchecking them as well but my main concern on e-mail lists is
not to have spelling errors that are more than minor and to have
clear writing and accuracy. Rereading before sending is important
in all those respects.
Gene
----- Original Message -----

*From:* Gene <mailto:gsasner@gmail.com>
*Sent:* Monday, November 19, 2018 10:16 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

I'm writing as a moderator to explain my thinking about the
message. Of course, if the owner disagrees, that will be the
controling decision.
While it is generally not done and not considered proper, I think
you are overreacting. For one thing, I see this error with native
English speakers. I don't recall seeing it with non native
speakers. Since this sort of discussion never takes place on the
list, I let it pass. a little variety is enjoyable and may
stimulate thought and awareness. No one was flamed. No one was
disparaged. These days, being offended by everything is a cultural
passtime and fixsture. I don't see anything offensive in the message.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Rick <mailto:softwarethatworks@gmail.com>
**
*Gene*
*----- Original Message -----*
*Sent:* Monday, November 19, 2018 5:21 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

Hello Travis:

I find your email to be quite insensitive. As you are probably
aware, this list is comprised of people from all over the globe,
many of whom are not native English speakers. I am always impressed
when people are capable of speaking an additional language other
than their native tongue and criticizing them for grammatical
mistakes on a list not focused on grammatical correctness is petty
and unwarranted. It is also off topic.

Rick

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>> On Behalf Of
Travis Siegel
Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2018 12:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

Not trying to make anybody mad here, but it really is disconcerting
to see so many people here using wander and wonder interchangeably.
Wander (with an"A" ) is what you do when you're out and about, and
don't have any particular place to be, and you just feel like
taking your time to see what's going on around you. You wander
around, looking at things, and simply taking things easy.
On the other hand, wonder (with an "O" ) is what you do when you're
curious about something. Yeah, it's ok to wonder about life, the
universe and everything, but if you wander about such things, you
may never find your way back to your back yard, having being swept
off into galaxies unknown.
And, of course, it's perfectly acceptable to wonder about wandering
too, especially if you're wondering why so many people wander into
things.













.






Caution: This email originated from outside of Roxbury Community College. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.


Re: [EXTERNAL] - Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

nvda+unsubscribe@groups.io.

On 11/19/2018 11:54 AM, Joshua Crary wrote:
Where do you go to remove yourself from this emailing list?



-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Cristóbal
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 2:51 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [EXTERNAL] - Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

The simple fact is that Beyond the immediate world of family and friends perhaps, not making the effort to spell and punctuate correctly comes off as incredibly sloppy/lazy and good luck trying to be taken seriously. If you're dyslexic, well . . . that's maybe a different ballgame but one doesn't have to be a grammar Nazi to at least try.


Cristóbal

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 11:40 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

Its not just the blind, that goes for everyone world wide mostly at least those of us in the west.

My parients come from indonesia and things happen at a slower pace.

Even here, I try to be reasonably quick, but then I haven't and will probably not ever work in any real business except for myself.

I havn't touched a report or coppy of office since my university days.

And while I have jarte, I hardly read a document unless its for some experiment or test.

Most things are in pdf or text or just online.

And while I don't mind the electronic side of things if I can get into the physical guts of something then I usually do that.

Sadly these days its money, money, money, and fast, fast, fast.

We use automated tools a lot.

Thats fine but we lose something when we overuse those tools.

Sadly those of newer generations than myself are born into the automatic world and have no experience with anything else.

I have known a time before the net and facebook.

My parents have known a time before computers, water and power, radio and tv.

So many things we take for granted.

Any war is far away for most of the new people, me included.

For my parients and others before me, they have known 2 of those.

The next generation will not even have the discussion about anything like this though.

We only care because we know what it was like to have to spell without autocorrect.

Soon enough it won't matter how badly we spell.

Thats sad but true.



On 11/20/2018 8:05 AM, Tyler Wood wrote:
TLDR: We're all in such a panic to get things done that no blind
person is going to take the two seconds to see a spelling of an item
using a screen reader. I'm glad braille displays are getting just a
little bit cheaper.


Hi,

This is why it is always best to keep braille around, uncontracted.


Who actually uses a screen reader to see how things are spelled? It is
so much easier to glance (sorry, with our fingers) down at a braille
display, see that their (as belonging) is T H E I R. Rather than
spelling it T H E R E because that's how it sounds.


But, then there is the other argument that grade 2 braille teaches us
the opposite, so who knows. I know my spelling deteriorated when I
stopped reading braille books and switched to audio.



On 2018-11-19 12:45 PM, Shaun Everiss wrote:
To be honest, we spell how we speak.

I don't say the t in capture or capcha, I know it exists but I don't
speak it.

Usually if one does not know how a word is spelt he will go how he
speaks it because it sounds fine enough.



On 11/20/2018 7:30 AM, Kwork wrote:
The only spelling anomaly common among blind people that really
annoys me to no end is misspelling captcha as capture. Bad enough in
everyday use, but worse when we're filling out support tickets on
websites and professional emails, and asking companies to make their
"captures" accessible. Um, no. The form that includes an unsolvable
by screenreader image verification is called captcha. c, a, p, t, c,
h, a.

On 11/19/2018 9:54 AM, Gene wrote:
I usually don't spell-check messages. I read them before I send
them to check for words that sound misspelled but also to make sure
what I wrote is clear, accurate, such as commands given during
describing a procedure, and not clumsily worded. I may start
spellchecking them as well but my main concern on e-mail lists is
not to have spelling errors that are more than minor and to have
clear writing and accuracy. Rereading before sending is important
in all those respects.
Gene
----- Original Message -----

*From:* Gene <mailto:gsasner@gmail.com>
*Sent:* Monday, November 19, 2018 10:16 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

I'm writing as a moderator to explain my thinking about the
message. Of course, if the owner disagrees, that will be the
controling decision.
While it is generally not done and not considered proper, I think
you are overreacting. For one thing, I see this error with native
English speakers. I don't recall seeing it with non native
speakers. Since this sort of discussion never takes place on the
list, I let it pass. a little variety is enjoyable and may
stimulate thought and awareness. No one was flamed. No one was
disparaged. These days, being offended by everything is a cultural
passtime and fixsture. I don't see anything offensive in the message.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Rick <mailto:softwarethatworks@gmail.com>
**
*Gene*
*----- Original Message -----*
*Sent:* Monday, November 19, 2018 5:21 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

Hello Travis:

I find your email to be quite insensitive. As you are probably
aware, this list is comprised of people from all over the globe,
many of whom are not native English speakers. I am always impressed
when people are capable of speaking an additional language other
than their native tongue and criticizing them for grammatical
mistakes on a list not focused on grammatical correctness is petty
and unwarranted. It is also off topic.

Rick

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>> On Behalf Of
Travis Siegel
Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2018 12:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

Not trying to make anybody mad here, but it really is disconcerting
to see so many people here using wander and wonder interchangeably.
Wander (with an"A" ) is what you do when you're out and about, and
don't have any particular place to be, and you just feel like
taking your time to see what's going on around you. You wander
around, looking at things, and simply taking things easy.
On the other hand, wonder (with an "O" ) is what you do when you're
curious about something. Yeah, it's ok to wonder about life, the
universe and everything, but if you wander about such things, you
may never find your way back to your back yard, having being swept
off into galaxies unknown.
And, of course, it's perfectly acceptable to wonder about wandering
too, especially if you're wondering why so many people wander into
things.










.





Caution: This email originated from outside of Roxbury Community College. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.


Re: wonder vs. wander

Gene
 

I'm not sure what causes these errors, not speaking Spanish.  it sounds as though the x is silent.  It doesn't matter what language you speak.  If you intend to write a word in a formal situation, you should check unfamiliar words to make sure you know how to spell them.  Even in informal situations, checking spelling of names is important. 
 
You should check any but obvious names.  You don't have to check Bill, for example.  You do have to check Gene.  Is it Gene, g e n e, or Jean j e a n.  Is it  Tony Tony ending in y for a man, or toni ending in I which is used for both men's and women's names and which can be a short form for some women's names.  Don't assume except in obvious cases.  and even something that seems obvious may not be.  If you don't know that the name Brian has two spellings, one B R Y A N, the other B R I A N, do you want to embarrass yourself by assuming there is only one?  When you use speech, don't assume unless you are dealing with blatantly obvious names, Bill, John, Alice, Jane, etc. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 12:40 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

Which reminds me, in Spanish, I’ve seen blind people spell stuff wrong like in Dropbox, they have written stuff like Dropvo. The funniest one I’ve come across was instead of Firefox, they wrote Firefo. I know we shouldn’t laugh at these, but I mean withoutBraille/ready Access or someone sighted to tell them the correct spelling, what or how would they know the correct spelling of these terms? IN thepast, I’vecorrected them, but have gotten beaten of that I’m a perfectionist etc., or thatai want to show mysuperiority, which I’d never do such a thing.

 

                                                                                              Enviado desde Correo para Windows 10

 

De: Kwork
Enviado: lunes, 19 de noviembre de 2018 12:30 p. m.
Para: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Asunto: Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

 

The only spelling anomaly common among blind people that really annoys me to no end is misspelling captcha as capture. Bad enough in everyday use, but worse when we're filling out support tickets on websites and professional emails, and asking companies to make their "captures" accessible. Um, no. The form that includes an unsolvable by screenreader image verification is called captcha. c, a, p, t, c, h, a.

On 11/19/2018 9:54 AM, Gene wrote:

I usually don't spell-check messages.  I read them before I send them to check for words that sound misspelled but also to make sure what I wrote is clear, accurate, such as commands given during describing a procedure, and not clumsily worded.  I may start spellchecking them as well but my main concern on e-mail lists is not to have spelling errors that are more than minor and to have clear writing and accuracy.  Rereading before sending is important in all those respects.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

 

From: Gene

Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 10:16 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

 

I'm writing as a moderator to explain my thinking about the message.  Of course, if the owner disagrees, that will be the controling decision.

 

While it is generally not done and not considered proper, I think you are overreacting.  For one thing, I see this error with native English speakers.  I don't recall seeing it with non native speakers.  Since this sort of discussion never takes place on the list, I let it pass.  a little variety is enjoyable and may stimulate thought and awareness.  No one was flamed.  No one was disparaged.  These days, being offended by everything is a cultural passtime and fixsture.  I don't see anything offensive in the message.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Rick

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 5:21 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

 

Hello Travis:

I find your email to be quite insensitive. As you are probably aware, this
list is comprised of people from all over the globe, many of whom are not
native English speakers. I am always impressed when people are capable of
speaking an additional language other than their native tongue and
criticizing them for grammatical mistakes on a list not focused on
grammatical correctness is petty and unwarranted. It is also off topic.

Rick

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Travis Siegel
Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2018 12:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

Not trying to make anybody mad here, but it really is disconcerting to see
so many people here using wander and wonder interchangeably.
Wander (with an"A" ) is what you do when you're out and about, and don't
have any particular place to be, and you just feel like taking your time to
see what's going on around you.  You wander around, looking at things, and
simply taking things easy.
On the other hand, wonder (with an "O" ) is what you do when you're curious
about something.  Yeah, it's ok to wonder about life, the universe and
everything, but if you wander about such things, you may never find your way
back to your back yard, having being swept off into galaxies unknown.
And, of course, it's perfectly acceptable to wonder about wandering too,
especially if you're wondering why so many people wander into things.






 


Re: [EXTERNAL] - Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

Cristóbal
 

It's literally in the body of every email.

Cristóbal

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joshua Crary
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 11:55 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] - Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

Where do you go to remove yourself from this emailing list?



-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Cristóbal
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 2:51 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [EXTERNAL] - Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

The simple fact is that Beyond the immediate world of family and friends
perhaps, not making the effort to spell and punctuate correctly comes off as
incredibly sloppy/lazy and good luck trying to be taken seriously. If you're
dyslexic, well . . . that's maybe a different ballgame but one doesn't have
to be a grammar Nazi to at least try.


Cristóbal

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 11:40 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

Its not just the blind, that goes for everyone world wide mostly at least
those of us in the west.

My parients come from indonesia and things happen at a slower pace.

Even here, I try to be reasonably quick, but then I haven't and will
probably not ever work in any real business except for myself.

I havn't touched a report or coppy of office since my university days.

And while I have jarte, I hardly read a document unless its for some
experiment or test.

Most things are in pdf or text or just online.

And while I don't mind the electronic side of things if I can get into the
physical guts of something then I usually do that.

Sadly these days its money, money, money, and fast, fast, fast.

We use automated tools a lot.

Thats fine but we lose something when we overuse those tools.

Sadly those of newer generations than myself are born into the automatic
world and have no experience with anything else.

I have known a time before the net and facebook.

My parents have known a time before computers, water and power, radio and
tv.

So many things we take for granted.

Any war is far away for most of the new people, me included.

For my parients and others before me, they have known 2 of those.

The next generation will not even have the discussion about anything like
this though.

We only care because we know what it was like to have to spell without
autocorrect.

Soon enough it won't matter how badly we spell.

Thats sad but true.



On 11/20/2018 8:05 AM, Tyler Wood wrote:
TLDR: We're all in such a panic to get things done that no blind
person is going to take the two seconds to see a spelling of an item
using a screen reader. I'm glad braille displays are getting just a
little bit cheaper.


Hi,

This is why it is always best to keep braille around, uncontracted.


Who actually uses a screen reader to see how things are spelled? It is
so much easier to glance (sorry, with our fingers) down at a braille
display, see that their (as belonging) is T H E I R. Rather than
spelling it T H E R E because that's how it sounds.


But, then there is the other argument that grade 2 braille teaches us
the opposite, so who knows. I know my spelling deteriorated when I
stopped reading braille books and switched to audio.



On 2018-11-19 12:45 PM, Shaun Everiss wrote:
To be honest, we spell how we speak.

I don't say the t in capture or capcha, I know it exists but I don't
speak it.

Usually if one does not know how a word is spelt he will go how he
speaks it because it sounds fine enough.



On 11/20/2018 7:30 AM, Kwork wrote:
The only spelling anomaly common among blind people that really
annoys me to no end is misspelling captcha as capture. Bad enough in
everyday use, but worse when we're filling out support tickets on
websites and professional emails, and asking companies to make their
"captures" accessible. Um, no. The form that includes an unsolvable
by screenreader image verification is called captcha. c, a, p, t, c,
h, a.

On 11/19/2018 9:54 AM, Gene wrote:
I usually don't spell-check messages. I read them before I send
them to check for words that sound misspelled but also to make sure
what I wrote is clear, accurate, such as commands given during
describing a procedure, and not clumsily worded. I may start
spellchecking them as well but my main concern on e-mail lists is
not to have spelling errors that are more than minor and to have
clear writing and accuracy. Rereading before sending is important
in all those respects.
Gene
----- Original Message -----

*From:* Gene <mailto:gsasner@gmail.com>
*Sent:* Monday, November 19, 2018 10:16 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

I'm writing as a moderator to explain my thinking about the
message. Of course, if the owner disagrees, that will be the
controling decision.
While it is generally not done and not considered proper, I think
you are overreacting. For one thing, I see this error with native
English speakers. I don't recall seeing it with non native
speakers. Since this sort of discussion never takes place on the
list, I let it pass. a little variety is enjoyable and may
stimulate thought and awareness. No one was flamed. No one was
disparaged. These days, being offended by everything is a cultural
passtime and fixsture. I don't see anything offensive in the message.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Rick <mailto:softwarethatworks@gmail.com>
**
*Gene*
*----- Original Message -----*
*Sent:* Monday, November 19, 2018 5:21 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

Hello Travis:

I find your email to be quite insensitive. As you are probably
aware, this list is comprised of people from all over the globe,
many of whom are not native English speakers. I am always impressed
when people are capable of speaking an additional language other
than their native tongue and criticizing them for grammatical
mistakes on a list not focused on grammatical correctness is petty
and unwarranted. It is also off topic.

Rick

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>> On Behalf Of
Travis Siegel
Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2018 12:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

Not trying to make anybody mad here, but it really is disconcerting
to see so many people here using wander and wonder interchangeably.
Wander (with an"A" ) is what you do when you're out and about, and
don't have any particular place to be, and you just feel like
taking your time to see what's going on around you. You wander
around, looking at things, and simply taking things easy.
On the other hand, wonder (with an "O" ) is what you do when you're
curious about something. Yeah, it's ok to wonder about life, the
universe and everything, but if you wander about such things, you
may never find your way back to your back yard, having being swept
off into galaxies unknown.
And, of course, it's perfectly acceptable to wonder about wandering
too, especially if you're wondering why so many people wander into
things.













.






Caution: This email originated from outside of Roxbury Community College. Do
not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know
the content is safe.


Re: [EXTERNAL] - Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

Joshua Crary <JCrary@...>
 

Where do you go to remove yourself from this emailing list?

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Cristóbal
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 2:51 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [EXTERNAL] - Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

The simple fact is that Beyond the immediate world of family and friends perhaps, not making the effort to spell and punctuate correctly comes off as incredibly sloppy/lazy and good luck trying to be taken seriously. If you're dyslexic, well . . . that's maybe a different ballgame but one doesn't have to be a grammar Nazi to at least try.


Cristóbal

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 11:40 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

Its not just the blind, that goes for everyone world wide mostly at least those of us in the west.

My parients come from indonesia and things happen at a slower pace.

Even here, I try to be reasonably quick, but then I haven't and will probably not ever work in any real business except for myself.

I havn't touched a report or coppy of office since my university days.

And while I have jarte, I hardly read a document unless its for some experiment or test.

Most things are in pdf or text or just online.

And while I don't mind the electronic side of things if I can get into the physical guts of something then I usually do that.

Sadly these days its money, money, money, and fast, fast, fast.

We use automated tools a lot.

Thats fine but we lose something when we overuse those tools.

Sadly those of newer generations than myself are born into the automatic world and have no experience with anything else.

I have known a time before the net and facebook.

My parents have known a time before computers, water and power, radio and tv.

So many things we take for granted.

Any war is far away for most of the new people, me included.

For my parients and others before me, they have known 2 of those.

The next generation will not even have the discussion about anything like this though.

We only care because we know what it was like to have to spell without autocorrect.

Soon enough it won't matter how badly we spell.

Thats sad but true.



On 11/20/2018 8:05 AM, Tyler Wood wrote:
TLDR: We're all in such a panic to get things done that no blind
person is going to take the two seconds to see a spelling of an item
using a screen reader. I'm glad braille displays are getting just a
little bit cheaper.


Hi,

This is why it is always best to keep braille around, uncontracted.


Who actually uses a screen reader to see how things are spelled? It is
so much easier to glance (sorry, with our fingers) down at a braille
display, see that their (as belonging) is T H E I R. Rather than
spelling it T H E R E because that's how it sounds.


But, then there is the other argument that grade 2 braille teaches us
the opposite, so who knows. I know my spelling deteriorated when I
stopped reading braille books and switched to audio.



On 2018-11-19 12:45 PM, Shaun Everiss wrote:
To be honest, we spell how we speak.

I don't say the t in capture or capcha, I know it exists but I don't
speak it.

Usually if one does not know how a word is spelt he will go how he
speaks it because it sounds fine enough.



On 11/20/2018 7:30 AM, Kwork wrote:
The only spelling anomaly common among blind people that really
annoys me to no end is misspelling captcha as capture. Bad enough in
everyday use, but worse when we're filling out support tickets on
websites and professional emails, and asking companies to make their
"captures" accessible. Um, no. The form that includes an unsolvable
by screenreader image verification is called captcha. c, a, p, t, c,
h, a.

On 11/19/2018 9:54 AM, Gene wrote:
I usually don't spell-check messages. I read them before I send
them to check for words that sound misspelled but also to make sure
what I wrote is clear, accurate, such as commands given during
describing a procedure, and not clumsily worded. I may start
spellchecking them as well but my main concern on e-mail lists is
not to have spelling errors that are more than minor and to have
clear writing and accuracy. Rereading before sending is important
in all those respects.
Gene
----- Original Message -----

*From:* Gene <mailto:gsasner@gmail.com>
*Sent:* Monday, November 19, 2018 10:16 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

I'm writing as a moderator to explain my thinking about the
message. Of course, if the owner disagrees, that will be the
controling decision.
While it is generally not done and not considered proper, I think
you are overreacting. For one thing, I see this error with native
English speakers. I don't recall seeing it with non native
speakers. Since this sort of discussion never takes place on the
list, I let it pass. a little variety is enjoyable and may
stimulate thought and awareness. No one was flamed. No one was
disparaged. These days, being offended by everything is a cultural
passtime and fixsture. I don't see anything offensive in the message.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Rick <mailto:softwarethatworks@gmail.com>
**
*Gene*
*----- Original Message -----*
*Sent:* Monday, November 19, 2018 5:21 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

Hello Travis:

I find your email to be quite insensitive. As you are probably
aware, this list is comprised of people from all over the globe,
many of whom are not native English speakers. I am always impressed
when people are capable of speaking an additional language other
than their native tongue and criticizing them for grammatical
mistakes on a list not focused on grammatical correctness is petty
and unwarranted. It is also off topic.

Rick

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>> On Behalf Of
Travis Siegel
Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2018 12:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

Not trying to make anybody mad here, but it really is disconcerting
to see so many people here using wander and wonder interchangeably.
Wander (with an"A" ) is what you do when you're out and about, and
don't have any particular place to be, and you just feel like
taking your time to see what's going on around you. You wander
around, looking at things, and simply taking things easy.
On the other hand, wonder (with an "O" ) is what you do when you're
curious about something. Yeah, it's ok to wonder about life, the
universe and everything, but if you wander about such things, you
may never find your way back to your back yard, having being swept
off into galaxies unknown.
And, of course, it's perfectly acceptable to wonder about wandering
too, especially if you're wondering why so many people wander into
things.













.






Caution: This email originated from outside of Roxbury Community College. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.


Re: wonder vs. wander

Cristóbal
 

The simple fact is that Beyond the immediate world of family and friends
perhaps, not making the effort to spell and punctuate correctly comes off as
incredibly sloppy/lazy and good luck trying to be taken seriously. If you're
dyslexic, well . . . that's maybe a different ballgame but one doesn't have
to be a grammar Nazi to at least try.


Cristóbal

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 11:40 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

Its not just the blind, that goes for everyone world wide mostly at least
those of us in the west.

My parients come from indonesia and things happen at a slower pace.

Even here, I try to be reasonably quick, but then I haven't and will
probably not ever work in any real business except for myself.

I havn't touched a report or coppy of office since my university days.

And while I have jarte, I hardly read a document unless its for some
experiment or test.

Most things are in pdf or text or just online.

And while I don't mind the electronic side of things if I can get into the
physical guts of something then I usually do that.

Sadly these days its money, money, money, and fast, fast, fast.

We use automated tools a lot.

Thats fine but we lose something when we overuse those tools.

Sadly those of newer generations than myself are born into the automatic
world and have no experience with anything else.

I have known a time before the net and facebook.

My parents have known a time before computers, water and power, radio and
tv.

So many things we take for granted.

Any war is far away for most of the new people, me included.

For my parients and others before me, they have known 2 of those.

The next generation will not even have the discussion about anything like
this though.

We only care because we know what it was like to have to spell without
autocorrect.

Soon enough it won't matter how badly we spell.

Thats sad but true.



On 11/20/2018 8:05 AM, Tyler Wood wrote:
TLDR: We're all in such a panic to get things done that no blind
person is going to take the two seconds to see a spelling of an item
using a screen reader. I'm glad braille displays are getting just a
little bit cheaper.


Hi,

This is why it is always best to keep braille around, uncontracted.


Who actually uses a screen reader to see how things are spelled? It is
so much easier to glance (sorry, with our fingers) down at a braille
display, see that their (as belonging) is T H E I R. Rather than
spelling it T H E R E because that's how it sounds.


But, then there is the other argument that grade 2 braille teaches us
the opposite, so who knows. I know my spelling deteriorated when I
stopped reading braille books and switched to audio.



On 2018-11-19 12:45 PM, Shaun Everiss wrote:
To be honest, we spell how we speak.

I don't say the t in capture or capcha, I know it exists but I don't
speak it.

Usually if one does not know how a word is spelt he will go how he
speaks it because it sounds fine enough.



On 11/20/2018 7:30 AM, Kwork wrote:
The only spelling anomaly common among blind people that really
annoys me to no end is misspelling captcha as capture. Bad enough in
everyday use, but worse when we're filling out support tickets on
websites and professional emails, and asking companies to make their
"captures" accessible. Um, no. The form that includes an unsolvable
by screenreader image verification is called captcha. c, a, p, t, c,
h, a.

On 11/19/2018 9:54 AM, Gene wrote:
I usually don't spell-check messages. I read them before I send
them to check for words that sound misspelled but also to make sure
what I wrote is clear, accurate, such as commands given during
describing a procedure, and not clumsily worded.  I may start
spellchecking them as well but my main concern on e-mail lists is
not to have spelling errors that are more than minor and to have
clear writing and accuracy.  Rereading before sending is important
in all those respects.
Gene
----- Original Message -----

*From:* Gene <mailto:gsasner@gmail.com>
*Sent:* Monday, November 19, 2018 10:16 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

I'm writing as a moderator to explain my thinking about the
message.  Of course, if the owner disagrees, that will be the
controling decision.
While it is generally not done and not considered proper, I think
you are overreacting.  For one thing, I see this error with native
English speakers.  I don't recall seeing it with non native
speakers.  Since this sort of discussion never takes place on the
list, I let it pass.  a little variety is enjoyable and may
stimulate thought and awareness.  No one was flamed.  No one was
disparaged. These days, being offended by everything is a cultural
passtime and fixsture. I don't see anything offensive in the message.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Rick <mailto:softwarethatworks@gmail.com>
**
*Gene*
*----- Original Message -----*
*Sent:* Monday, November 19, 2018 5:21 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

Hello Travis:

I find your email to be quite insensitive. As you are probably
aware, this list is comprised of people from all over the globe,
many of whom are not native English speakers. I am always impressed
when people are capable of speaking an additional language other
than their native tongue and criticizing them for grammatical
mistakes on a list not focused on grammatical correctness is petty
and unwarranted. It is also off topic.

Rick

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>> On Behalf Of
Travis Siegel
Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2018 12:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

Not trying to make anybody mad here, but it really is disconcerting
to see so many people here using wander and wonder interchangeably.
Wander (with an"A" ) is what you do when you're out and about, and
don't have any particular place to be, and you just feel like
taking your time to see what's going on around you.  You wander
around, looking at things, and simply taking things easy.
On the other hand, wonder (with an "O" ) is what you do when you're
curious about something.  Yeah, it's ok to wonder about life, the
universe and everything, but if you wander about such things, you
may never find your way back to your back yard, having being swept
off into galaxies unknown.
And, of course, it's perfectly acceptable to wonder about wandering
too, especially if you're wondering why so many people wander into
things.













.


Re: wonder vs. wander

 

I have learned braille but yeah so much is on the computer now.

If I started I doubt I'd learn braille at all.

I don't have or can afford any expensive display and even now I can I havn't read a bulky braille book for years now.

I don't write in braille either.

I am happy I know the old codes but thats it.

To be honest, braille is good in school and for maths.

But get out of school, since sightlings don't read it, its not much use unless you are deff and you have to translate to print so its easier to just use a normal computer.

On 11/20/2018 8:08 AM, Tyler Wood wrote:
And yet, there is still some percentage of blind folks who have not learned braille at all, claiming they don't need it.

They sure are missing out. Reading braille and having specific spellings ingrained onto the brain simply by the sheer repetitiveness of taking in words via the fingers is well worth the slower reading time.


But as someone else also rightly pointed out, inept teaching can also cause the same issues. Honestly it comes down to proofreading. Take 30 seconds and proofread the message - I see countless messages with actual missing letters or spaces that any screen reader, much less braille display, picks out.


On 2018-11-19 12:40 PM, Gerardo Corripio wrote:

Which reminds me, in Spanish, I’ve seen blind people spell stuff wrong like in Dropbox, they have written stuff like Dropvo. The funniest one I’ve come across was instead of Firefox, they wrote Firefo. I know we shouldn’t laugh at these, but I mean withoutBraille/ready Access or someone sighted to tell them the correct spelling, what or how would they know the correct spelling of these terms? IN thepast, I’vecorrected them, but have gotten beaten of that I’m a perfectionist etc., or thatai want to show mysuperiority, which I’d never do such a thing.

Enviado desde Correo <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> para Windows 10

*De: *Kwork <mailto:istherelife@gmail.com>
*Enviado: *lunes, 19 de noviembre de 2018 12:30 p. m.
*Para: *nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Asunto: *Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

The only spelling anomaly common among blind people that really annoys me to no end is misspelling captcha as capture. Bad enough in everyday use, but worse when we're filling out support tickets on websites and professional emails, and asking companies to make their "captures" accessible. Um, no. The form that includes an unsolvable by screenreader image verification is called captcha. c, a, p, t, c, h, a.

On 11/19/2018 9:54 AM, Gene wrote:

    I usually don't spell-check messages.  I read them before I send
    them to check for words that sound misspelled but also to make
    sure what I wrote is clear, accurate, such as commands given
    during describing a procedure, and not clumsily worded.  I may
    start spellchecking them as well but my main concern on e-mail
    lists is not to have spelling errors that are more than minor and
    to have clear writing and accuracy.  Rereading before sending is
    important in all those respects.

    Gene

    ----- Original Message -----

    *From:*Gene <mailto:gsasner@gmail.com>

    *Sent:*Monday, November 19, 2018 10:16 AM

    *To:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

    *Subject:*Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

    I'm writing as a moderator to explain my thinking about the
    message.  Of course, if the owner disagrees, that will be the
    controling decision.

    While it is generally not done and not considered proper, I think
    you are overreacting.  For one thing, I see this error with native
    English speakers.  I don't recall seeing it with non native
    speakers.  Since this sort of discussion never takes place on the
    list, I let it pass.  a little variety is enjoyable and may
    stimulate thought and awareness.  No one was flamed.  No one was
    disparaged. These days, being offended by everything is a cultural
    passtime and fixsture.  I don't see anything offensive in the message.

    Gene

    ----- Original Message -----

    *From:* Rick <mailto:softwarethatworks@gmail.com>

    *Gene*

    *----- Original Message -----*

    *Sent:*Monday, November 19, 2018 5:21 AM

    *To:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

    *Subject:*Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

    Hello Travis:

    I find your email to be quite insensitive. As you are probably
    aware, this
    list is comprised of people from all over the globe, many of whom
    are not
    native English speakers. I am always impressed when people are
    capable of
    speaking an additional language other than their native tongue and
    criticizing them for grammatical mistakes on a list not focused on
    grammatical correctness is petty and unwarranted. It is also off
    topic.

    Rick

    -----Original Message-----
    From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
    <nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>> On Behalf Of
    Travis Siegel
    Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2018 12:40 PM
    To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
    Subject: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

    Not trying to make anybody mad here, but it really is
    disconcerting to see
    so many people here using wander and wonder interchangeably.
    Wander (with an"A" ) is what you do when you're out and about, and
    don't
    have any particular place to be, and you just feel like taking
    your time to
    see what's going on around you.  You wander around, looking at
    things, and
    simply taking things easy.
    On the other hand, wonder (with an "O" ) is what you do when
    you're curious
    about something.  Yeah, it's ok to wonder about life, the universe and
    everything, but if you wander about such things, you may never
    find your way
    back to your back yard, having being swept off into galaxies unknown.
    And, of course, it's perfectly acceptable to wonder about
    wandering too,
    especially if you're wondering why so many people wander into things.









Re: wonder vs. wander

 

Its not just the blind, that goes for everyone world wide mostly at least those of us in the west.

My parients come from indonesia and things happen at a slower pace.

Even here, I try to be reasonably quick, but then I haven't and will probably not ever work in any real business except for myself.

I havn't touched a report or coppy of office since my university days.

And while I have jarte, I hardly read a document unless its for some experiment or test.

Most things are in pdf or text or just online.

And while I don't mind the electronic side of things if I can get into the physical guts of something then I usually do that.

Sadly these days its money, money, money, and fast, fast, fast.

We use automated tools a lot.

Thats fine but we lose something when we overuse those tools.

Sadly those of newer generations than myself are born into the automatic world and have no experience with anything else.

I have known a time before the net and facebook.

My parents have known a time before computers, water and power, radio and tv.

So many things we take for granted.

Any war is far away for most of the new people, me included.

For my parients and others before me, they have known 2 of those.

The next generation will not even have the discussion about anything like this though.

We only care because we know what it was like to have to spell without autocorrect.

Soon enough it won't matter how badly we spell.

Thats sad but true.

On 11/20/2018 8:05 AM, Tyler Wood wrote:
TLDR: We're all in such a panic to get things done that no blind person is going to take the two seconds to see a spelling of an item using a screen reader. I'm glad braille displays are getting just a little bit cheaper.


Hi,

This is why it is always best to keep braille around, uncontracted.


Who actually uses a screen reader to see how things are spelled? It is so much easier to glance (sorry, with our fingers) down at a braille display, see that their (as belonging) is T H E I R. Rather than spelling it T H E R E because that's how it sounds.


But, then there is the other argument that grade 2 braille teaches us the opposite, so who knows. I know my spelling deteriorated when I stopped reading braille books and switched to audio.



On 2018-11-19 12:45 PM, Shaun Everiss wrote:
To be honest, we spell how we speak.

I don't say the t in capture or capcha, I know it exists but I don't speak it.

Usually if one does not know how a word is spelt he will go how he speaks it because it sounds fine enough.



On 11/20/2018 7:30 AM, Kwork wrote:
The only spelling anomaly common among blind people that really annoys me to no end is misspelling captcha as capture. Bad enough in everyday use, but worse when we're filling out support tickets on websites and professional emails, and asking companies to make their "captures" accessible. Um, no. The form that includes an unsolvable by screenreader image verification is called captcha. c, a, p, t, c, h, a.

On 11/19/2018 9:54 AM, Gene wrote:
I usually don't spell-check messages. I read them before I send them to check for words that sound misspelled but also to make sure what I wrote is clear, accurate, such as commands given during describing a procedure, and not clumsily worded.  I may start spellchecking them as well but my main concern on e-mail lists is not to have spelling errors that are more than minor and to have clear writing and accuracy.  Rereading before sending is important in all those respects.
Gene
----- Original Message -----

*From:* Gene <mailto:gsasner@gmail.com>
*Sent:* Monday, November 19, 2018 10:16 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

I'm writing as a moderator to explain my thinking about the message.  Of course, if the owner disagrees, that will be the controling decision.
While it is generally not done and not considered proper, I think you are overreacting.  For one thing, I see this error with native English speakers.  I don't recall seeing it with non native speakers.  Since this sort of discussion never takes place on the list, I let it pass.  a little variety is enjoyable and may stimulate thought and awareness.  No one was flamed.  No one was disparaged. These days, being offended by everything is a cultural passtime and fixsture. I don't see anything offensive in the message.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Rick <mailto:softwarethatworks@gmail.com>
**
*Gene*
*----- Original Message -----*
*Sent:* Monday, November 19, 2018 5:21 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

Hello Travis:

I find your email to be quite insensitive. As you are probably aware, this
list is comprised of people from all over the globe, many of whom are not
native English speakers. I am always impressed when people are capable of
speaking an additional language other than their native tongue and
criticizing them for grammatical mistakes on a list not focused on
grammatical correctness is petty and unwarranted. It is also off topic.

Rick

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> <nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>> On Behalf Of Travis Siegel
Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2018 12:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

Not trying to make anybody mad here, but it really is disconcerting to see
so many people here using wander and wonder interchangeably.
Wander (with an"A" ) is what you do when you're out and about, and don't
have any particular place to be, and you just feel like taking your time to
see what's going on around you.  You wander around, looking at things, and
simply taking things easy.
On the other hand, wonder (with an "O" ) is what you do when you're curious
about something.  Yeah, it's ok to wonder about life, the universe and
everything, but if you wander about such things, you may never find your way
back to your back yard, having being swept off into galaxies unknown.
And, of course, it's perfectly acceptable to wonder about wandering too,
especially if you're wondering why so many people wander into things.












.


Re: wonder vs. wander

 

On Mon, Nov 19, 2018 at 01:21 PM, Kwork wrote:
NVDA is saying awl words correctly, if exaggeratedly at times.
Any time you hear a speech synthesizer saying something "exaggeratedly" that should be a big, honkin' warning that something's off.

Kudos, though, on this post.  It was extremely clever.  I do, however, believe that one should be able to hear the difference, even in synthesized speech in the middle of a sentence, between pro deuce and produce (as but one example).  There's also the question of whether we're talking produce as a verb or noun, as the stress is on the second syllable in the first instance and the first syllable in the second.  That being said, the speed at which many blind individuals can understand voice output from screen readers just astounds me.  I could no sooner wrap my head around speech that fast than fly to the moon using my own arms as propulsion.  If you have speech produced at ear blistering (for me) speeds then the elisions between two short words and a single word with the same phonemes becomes much harder to suss out.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


Re: Internet radio software recommended for use with NVDA?

Davy Cuppens
 

Many European stations are nolonger available with this software.
Regards
Davy
 

From: Gene
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 12:54 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Internet radio software recommended for use with NVDA?
 
What didn't you like about the interface?  You don't have to pay to use it because of a design flaw or bug, whetever it is. 
 
After the demo period runs out, if you open the program and start it playing, it will be fully functional for a few minutes.
Then, an ok button will come up.  If you have already decided to listen to a specific station and have it playing, it will play that station until you activate the ok button.  The program will then close and the default web browser will open to the Tapin site.  of course, you can just close it.
 
To keep the playlist current, use the search for updates feature at intervals.  I haven't tried to see how often updates come out.  My impression is something like once a month or two.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2018 3:18 PM
Subject: [nvda] Internet radio software recommended for use with NVDA?
 
Asking this since the older, free version of tapIn radio was perfectly
usable, but, they've now updated to what seems to be a paid-for version,
and while it's station listings will be kept up to date, the older
version will start lacking functional entries in the station listings.


Now, while I understand paying for worthwhile software, I tried out the
demo version of the new software, and, didn't like it's reworked
interface, and, secondly, I don't see why I should pay for something
like this if there are free alternatives that people would recommend?


So, suggestions on what to try out?


Would be nice if you could record it's output via the software, but,
that's not the end of the world, since the main thing is being able to
browse station categories/catalogues, being able to then control
playback, audio output, etc. etc.


Stay well

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"...resistance is futile...but, acceptance is versatile..."



Re: wonder vs. wander

Tyler Wood
 

And yet, there is still some percentage of blind folks who have not learned braille at all, claiming they don't need it.

They sure are missing out. Reading braille and having specific spellings ingrained onto the brain simply by the sheer repetitiveness of taking in words via the fingers is well worth the slower reading time.


But as someone else also rightly pointed out, inept teaching can also cause the same issues. Honestly it comes down to proofreading. Take 30 seconds and proofread the message - I see countless messages with actual missing letters or spaces that any screen reader, much less braille display, picks out.


On 2018-11-19 12:40 PM, Gerardo Corripio wrote:

Which reminds me, in Spanish, I’ve seen blind people spell stuff wrong like in Dropbox, they have written stuff like Dropvo. The funniest one I’ve come across was instead of Firefox, they wrote Firefo. I know we shouldn’t laugh at these, but I mean withoutBraille/ready Access or someone sighted to tell them the correct spelling, what or how would they know the correct spelling of these terms? IN thepast, I’vecorrected them, but have gotten beaten of that I’m a perfectionist etc., or thatai want to show mysuperiority, which I’d never do such a thing.

 

                                                                                              Enviado desde Correo para Windows 10

 

De: Kwork
Enviado: lunes, 19 de noviembre de 2018 12:30 p. m.
Para: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Asunto: Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

 

The only spelling anomaly common among blind people that really annoys me to no end is misspelling captcha as capture. Bad enough in everyday use, but worse when we're filling out support tickets on websites and professional emails, and asking companies to make their "captures" accessible. Um, no. The form that includes an unsolvable by screenreader image verification is called captcha. c, a, p, t, c, h, a.

On 11/19/2018 9:54 AM, Gene wrote:

I usually don't spell-check messages.  I read them before I send them to check for words that sound misspelled but also to make sure what I wrote is clear, accurate, such as commands given during describing a procedure, and not clumsily worded.  I may start spellchecking them as well but my main concern on e-mail lists is not to have spelling errors that are more than minor and to have clear writing and accuracy.  Rereading before sending is important in all those respects.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

 

From: Gene

Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 10:16 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

 

I'm writing as a moderator to explain my thinking about the message.  Of course, if the owner disagrees, that will be the controling decision.

 

While it is generally not done and not considered proper, I think you are overreacting.  For one thing, I see this error with native English speakers.  I don't recall seeing it with non native speakers.  Since this sort of discussion never takes place on the list, I let it pass.  a little variety is enjoyable and may stimulate thought and awareness.  No one was flamed.  No one was disparaged.  These days, being offended by everything is a cultural passtime and fixsture.  I don't see anything offensive in the message.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Rick

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 5:21 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

 

Hello Travis:

I find your email to be quite insensitive. As you are probably aware, this
list is comprised of people from all over the globe, many of whom are not
native English speakers. I am always impressed when people are capable of
speaking an additional language other than their native tongue and
criticizing them for grammatical mistakes on a list not focused on
grammatical correctness is petty and unwarranted. It is also off topic.

Rick

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Travis Siegel
Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2018 12:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

Not trying to make anybody mad here, but it really is disconcerting to see
so many people here using wander and wonder interchangeably.
Wander (with an"A" ) is what you do when you're out and about, and don't
have any particular place to be, and you just feel like taking your time to
see what's going on around you.  You wander around, looking at things, and
simply taking things easy.
On the other hand, wonder (with an "O" ) is what you do when you're curious
about something.  Yeah, it's ok to wonder about life, the universe and
everything, but if you wander about such things, you may never find your way
back to your back yard, having being swept off into galaxies unknown.
And, of course, it's perfectly acceptable to wonder about wandering too,
especially if you're wondering why so many people wander into things.






 



Re: wonder vs. wander

Tyler Wood
 

TLDR: We're all in such a panic to get things done that no blind person is going to take the two seconds to see a spelling of an item using a screen reader. I'm glad braille displays are getting just a little bit cheaper.


Hi,

This is why it is always best to keep braille around, uncontracted.


Who actually uses a screen reader to see how things are spelled? It is so much easier to glance (sorry, with our fingers) down at a braille display, see that their (as belonging) is T H E I R. Rather than spelling it T H E R E because that's how it sounds.


But, then there is the other argument that grade 2 braille teaches us the opposite, so who knows. I know my spelling deteriorated when I stopped reading braille books and switched to audio.

On 2018-11-19 12:45 PM, Shaun Everiss wrote:
To be honest, we spell how we speak.

I don't say the t in capture or capcha, I know it exists but I don't speak it.

Usually if one does not know how a word is spelt he will go how he speaks it because it sounds fine enough.



On 11/20/2018 7:30 AM, Kwork wrote:
The only spelling anomaly common among blind people that really annoys me to no end is misspelling captcha as capture. Bad enough in everyday use, but worse when we're filling out support tickets on websites and professional emails, and asking companies to make their "captures" accessible. Um, no. The form that includes an unsolvable by screenreader image verification is called captcha. c, a, p, t, c, h, a.

On 11/19/2018 9:54 AM, Gene wrote:
I usually don't spell-check messages.  I read them before I send them to check for words that sound misspelled but also to make sure what I wrote is clear, accurate, such as commands given during describing a procedure, and not clumsily worded.  I may start spellchecking them as well but my main concern on e-mail lists is not to have spelling errors that are more than minor and to have clear writing and accuracy.  Rereading before sending is important in all those respects.
Gene
----- Original Message -----

*From:* Gene <mailto:gsasner@gmail.com>
*Sent:* Monday, November 19, 2018 10:16 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

I'm writing as a moderator to explain my thinking about the message.  Of course, if the owner disagrees, that will be the controling decision.
While it is generally not done and not considered proper, I think you are overreacting.  For one thing, I see this error with native English speakers.  I don't recall seeing it with non native speakers.  Since this sort of discussion never takes place on the list, I let it pass.  a little variety is enjoyable and may stimulate thought and awareness.  No one was flamed.  No one was disparaged. These days, being offended by everything is a cultural passtime and fixsture.  I don't see anything offensive in the message.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Rick <mailto:softwarethatworks@gmail.com>
**
*Gene*
*----- Original Message -----*
*Sent:* Monday, November 19, 2018 5:21 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

Hello Travis:

I find your email to be quite insensitive. As you are probably aware, this
list is comprised of people from all over the globe, many of whom are not
native English speakers. I am always impressed when people are capable of
speaking an additional language other than their native tongue and
criticizing them for grammatical mistakes on a list not focused on
grammatical correctness is petty and unwarranted. It is also off topic.

Rick

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> <nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>> On Behalf Of Travis Siegel
Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2018 12:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

Not trying to make anybody mad here, but it really is disconcerting to see
so many people here using wander and wonder interchangeably.
Wander (with an"A" ) is what you do when you're out and about, and don't
have any particular place to be, and you just feel like taking your time to
see what's going on around you.  You wander around, looking at things, and
simply taking things easy.
On the other hand, wonder (with an "O" ) is what you do when you're curious
about something.  Yeah, it's ok to wonder about life, the universe and
everything, but if you wander about such things, you may never find your way
back to your back yard, having being swept off into galaxies unknown.
And, of course, it's perfectly acceptable to wonder about wandering too,
especially if you're wondering why so many people wander into things.










Re: [EXTERNAL] - Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

Gene
 

This message may be somewhat difficult to read with speech.
 
It is just negligent  not to teach people what the signs standd for.  You do spell that version of the word t h e I r with dots 4-5-6 the sign.  But if students were taught that dots 4-5-6 stand for e I r, they would be able to figure out print spellings.  Also, 4-5-6 followed by m causes 4-5-6 to stand for a n y.  Thus, the word many, 4-5-6 followed by m.  Germany, G e r sign dots 4-5-6- m.  Ger plus a n y sign followed by m. 
Dot 5 is o n e when followed by an o.  M dot 5 ony, money.  H dot 5 ony, honey.  Dot 5 o one.  G dot 5 o g o n e, gone.
 
What we are discussing is just one more sign of incompetence and inferior education some, perhaps many, blind children receive, and guess who ends up looking incompetent, whyich is blamed by the sighted world on blindness?  Not the teacher. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----

Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 11:42 AM
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] - Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

Having learned directly Grade2 Braille, can you guys believe when I started using a computer, I didn’t know how to spell father? Also the difference between their dots456]the/sign, versus there dot5]the/sign is easy for me at least, to remember> there as using the same sign as here, and their. Make sense?

 

                                                                                              Enviado desde Correo para Windows 10

 

De: Sarah k Alawami
Enviado: lunes, 19 de noviembre de 2018 11:27 a. m.
Para: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Asunto: Re: [EXTERNAL] - Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

 

Yeah. When I was learning braille and had to type in print I tried to type their and could not spell it as I had learned dot 4 5 6 t h e. And not t h e i r. No one ever taught me how to spell and it hurts me 30 odd years later. Story of my younger life eh?

Take care

On 19 Nov 2018, at 8:22, Joshua Crary wrote:

Some people who are low vision and do not visually see spelling develop poor spelling skills over time, as we do not have the visual reminder on daily basis on how to spell something correctly. 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 11:16 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [EXTERNAL] - Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

 

I'm writing as a moderator to explain my thinking about the message.  Of course, if the owner disagrees, that will be the controling decision.

 

While it is generally not done and not considered proper, I think you are overreacting.  For one thing, I see this error with native English speakers.  I don't recall seeing it with non native speakers.  Since this sort of discussion never takes place on the list, I let it pass.  a little variety is enjoyable and may stimulate thought and awareness.  No one was flamed.  No one was disparaged.  These days, being offended by everything is a cultural passtime and fixsture.  I don't see anything offensive in the message.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Rick

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 5:21 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

 

Hello Travis:

I find your email to be quite insensitive. As you are probably aware, this
list is comprised of people from all over the globe, many of whom are not
native English speakers. I am always impressed when people are capable of
speaking an additional language other than their native tongue and
criticizing them for grammatical mistakes on a list not focused on
grammatical correctness is petty and unwarranted. It is also off topic.

Rick

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Travis Siegel
Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2018 12:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

Not trying to make anybody mad here, but it really is disconcerting to see
so many people here using wander and wonder interchangeably.
Wander (with an"A" ) is what you do when you're out and about, and don't
have any particular place to be, and you just feel like taking your time to
see what's going on around you.  You wander around, looking at things, and
simply taking things easy.
On the other hand, wonder (with an "O" ) is what you do when you're curious
about something.  Yeah, it's ok to wonder about life, the universe and
everything, but if you wander about such things, you may never find your way
back to your back yard, having being swept off into galaxies unknown.
And, of course, it's perfectly acceptable to wonder about wandering too,
especially if you're wondering why so many people wander into things.





Caution: This email originated from outside of Roxbury Community College. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.

 


Re: wonder vs. wander

 

To be honest, we spell how we speak.

I don't say the t in capture or capcha, I know it exists but I don't speak it.

Usually if one does not know how a word is spelt he will go how he speaks it because it sounds fine enough.

On 11/20/2018 7:30 AM, Kwork wrote:
The only spelling anomaly common among blind people that really annoys me to no end is misspelling captcha as capture. Bad enough in everyday use, but worse when we're filling out support tickets on websites and professional emails, and asking companies to make their "captures" accessible. Um, no. The form that includes an unsolvable by screenreader image verification is called captcha. c, a, p, t, c, h, a.

On 11/19/2018 9:54 AM, Gene wrote:
I usually don't spell-check messages.  I read them before I send them to check for words that sound misspelled but also to make sure what I wrote is clear, accurate, such as commands given during describing a procedure, and not clumsily worded.  I may start spellchecking them as well but my main concern on e-mail lists is not to have spelling errors that are more than minor and to have clear writing and accuracy.  Rereading before sending is important in all those respects.
Gene
----- Original Message -----

*From:* Gene <mailto:gsasner@gmail.com>
*Sent:* Monday, November 19, 2018 10:16 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

I'm writing as a moderator to explain my thinking about the message.  Of course, if the owner disagrees, that will be the controling decision.
While it is generally not done and not considered proper, I think you are overreacting.  For one thing, I see this error with native English speakers.  I don't recall seeing it with non native speakers.  Since this sort of discussion never takes place on the list, I let it pass.  a little variety is enjoyable and may stimulate thought and awareness.  No one was flamed.  No one was disparaged. These days, being offended by everything is a cultural passtime and fixsture.  I don't see anything offensive in the message.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Rick <mailto:softwarethatworks@gmail.com>
**
*Gene*
*----- Original Message -----*
*Sent:* Monday, November 19, 2018 5:21 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

Hello Travis:

I find your email to be quite insensitive. As you are probably aware, this
list is comprised of people from all over the globe, many of whom are not
native English speakers. I am always impressed when people are capable of
speaking an additional language other than their native tongue and
criticizing them for grammatical mistakes on a list not focused on
grammatical correctness is petty and unwarranted. It is also off topic.

Rick

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> <nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>> On Behalf Of Travis Siegel
Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2018 12:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

Not trying to make anybody mad here, but it really is disconcerting to see
so many people here using wander and wonder interchangeably.
Wander (with an"A" ) is what you do when you're out and about, and don't
have any particular place to be, and you just feel like taking your time to
see what's going on around you.  You wander around, looking at things, and
simply taking things easy.
On the other hand, wonder (with an "O" ) is what you do when you're curious
about something.  Yeah, it's ok to wonder about life, the universe and
everything, but if you wander about such things, you may never find your way
back to your back yard, having being swept off into galaxies unknown.
And, of course, it's perfectly acceptable to wonder about wandering too,
especially if you're wondering why so many people wander into things.









Re: wonder vs. wander

Gerardo Corripio
 

Which reminds me, in Spanish, I’ve seen blind people spell stuff wrong like in Dropbox, they have written stuff like Dropvo. The funniest one I’ve come across was instead of Firefox, they wrote Firefo. I know we shouldn’t laugh at these, but I mean withoutBraille/ready Access or someone sighted to tell them the correct spelling, what or how would they know the correct spelling of these terms? IN thepast, I’vecorrected them, but have gotten beaten of that I’m a perfectionist etc., or thatai want to show mysuperiority, which I’d never do such a thing.

 

                                                                                              Enviado desde Correo para Windows 10

 

De: Kwork
Enviado: lunes, 19 de noviembre de 2018 12:30 p. m.
Para: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Asunto: Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

 

The only spelling anomaly common among blind people that really annoys me to no end is misspelling captcha as capture. Bad enough in everyday use, but worse when we're filling out support tickets on websites and professional emails, and asking companies to make their "captures" accessible. Um, no. The form that includes an unsolvable by screenreader image verification is called captcha. c, a, p, t, c, h, a.

On 11/19/2018 9:54 AM, Gene wrote:

I usually don't spell-check messages.  I read them before I send them to check for words that sound misspelled but also to make sure what I wrote is clear, accurate, such as commands given during describing a procedure, and not clumsily worded.  I may start spellchecking them as well but my main concern on e-mail lists is not to have spelling errors that are more than minor and to have clear writing and accuracy.  Rereading before sending is important in all those respects.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

 

From: Gene

Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 10:16 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

 

I'm writing as a moderator to explain my thinking about the message.  Of course, if the owner disagrees, that will be the controling decision.

 

While it is generally not done and not considered proper, I think you are overreacting.  For one thing, I see this error with native English speakers.  I don't recall seeing it with non native speakers.  Since this sort of discussion never takes place on the list, I let it pass.  a little variety is enjoyable and may stimulate thought and awareness.  No one was flamed.  No one was disparaged.  These days, being offended by everything is a cultural passtime and fixsture.  I don't see anything offensive in the message.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Rick

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 5:21 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

 

Hello Travis:

I find your email to be quite insensitive. As you are probably aware, this
list is comprised of people from all over the globe, many of whom are not
native English speakers. I am always impressed when people are capable of
speaking an additional language other than their native tongue and
criticizing them for grammatical mistakes on a list not focused on
grammatical correctness is petty and unwarranted. It is also off topic.

Rick

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Travis Siegel
Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2018 12:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

Not trying to make anybody mad here, but it really is disconcerting to see
so many people here using wander and wonder interchangeably.
Wander (with an"A" ) is what you do when you're out and about, and don't
have any particular place to be, and you just feel like taking your time to
see what's going on around you.  You wander around, looking at things, and
simply taking things easy.
On the other hand, wonder (with an "O" ) is what you do when you're curious
about something.  Yeah, it's ok to wonder about life, the universe and
everything, but if you wander about such things, you may never find your way
back to your back yard, having being swept off into galaxies unknown.
And, of course, it's perfectly acceptable to wonder about wandering too,
especially if you're wondering why so many people wander into things.






 


Re: wonder vs. wander

Kwork
 

The only spelling anomaly common among blind people that really annoys me to no end is misspelling captcha as capture. Bad enough in everyday use, but worse when we're filling out support tickets on websites and professional emails, and asking companies to make their "captures" accessible. Um, no. The form that includes an unsolvable by screenreader image verification is called captcha. c, a, p, t, c, h, a.

On 11/19/2018 9:54 AM, Gene wrote:
I usually don't spell-check messages.  I read them before I send them to check for words that sound misspelled but also to make sure what I wrote is clear, accurate, such as commands given during describing a procedure, and not clumsily worded.  I may start spellchecking them as well but my main concern on e-mail lists is not to have spelling errors that are more than minor and to have clear writing and accuracy.  Rereading before sending is important in all those respects.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Gene
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 10:16 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

I'm writing as a moderator to explain my thinking about the message.  Of course, if the owner disagrees, that will be the controling decision.
 
While it is generally not done and not considered proper, I think you are overreacting.  For one thing, I see this error with native English speakers.  I don't recall seeing it with non native speakers.  Since this sort of discussion never takes place on the list, I let it pass.  a little variety is enjoyable and may stimulate thought and awareness.  No one was flamed.  No one was disparaged.  These days, being offended by everything is a cultural passtime and fixsture.  I don't see anything offensive in the message.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 5:21 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

Hello Travis:

I find your email to be quite insensitive. As you are probably aware, this
list is comprised of people from all over the globe, many of whom are not
native English speakers. I am always impressed when people are capable of
speaking an additional language other than their native tongue and
criticizing them for grammatical mistakes on a list not focused on
grammatical correctness is petty and unwarranted. It is also off topic.

Rick

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Travis Siegel
Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2018 12:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

Not trying to make anybody mad here, but it really is disconcerting to see
so many people here using wander and wonder interchangeably.
Wander (with an"A" ) is what you do when you're out and about, and don't
have any particular place to be, and you just feel like taking your time to
see what's going on around you.  You wander around, looking at things, and
simply taking things easy.
On the other hand, wonder (with an "O" ) is what you do when you're curious
about something.  Yeah, it's ok to wonder about life, the universe and
everything, but if you wander about such things, you may never find your way
back to your back yard, having being swept off into galaxies unknown.
And, of course, it's perfectly acceptable to wonder about wandering too,
especially if you're wondering why so many people wander into things.








Re: NVDA not read anything in any browser.

hurrikennyandopo ...
 

Hi


The tool should of fixed the problem. After you used it did you shut down the computer properly or just restart?


Before the tool was made I used the following to fix it on my windows 10 64 bit machine.


It basically said if you are having these problems and tells you what to do. it must be done to the letter.


Troubleshooting - NVDA says “unknown” or “pane” in all of your browsers, Mozilla Thunderbird email client and other places
If for some reason you have problems with NVDA saying “unknown” or “pane” check for the following symptoms:

In all of your browsers, or the Mozilla Thunderbird email client, no matter what you do, you still hear “unknown” or “pane”.

In the browser, email client and other menus you notice you cannot get into your menus, or you are unable to use the quick navigation keys

When you have been told the page is loaded and notice strange behaviour

Mozilla Thunderbird saying unknown while you try to navigate it

Your applications key does not work with it being spoken out and other strange behaviour in Windows

The running applications icons are not being spoken out
It might be a good idea to do the following:
Please note: If you are hearing “unknown” or “pane” (as discussed above) NVDA might seem like it is still working properly but it may not be completely in Windows and other programmes.
You could try the following solution which will allow you to re-register your dll files in case they are causing the problem.
Press the Windows key then type the following into the search box. Type in “command prompt”. Once you have located command prompt, in the search results, press the Applications key to bring up the context menu. Arrow down to select “run as administrator” and press the Enter key. This will take you to a command prompt window. This will not be spoken out. You may need sighted assistance for this.
Type in the following command
for %x in (c:\windows\system32\*.dll) do regsvr32 /s %x
This should re-register all components in the system32 folder.
When it is finished, you can close the command prompt window with the Alt + F4 key. You should notice now where NVDA was saying “unknown” as in some examples given, NVDA should now read the icons in the running applications area of Windows, speak the content of the webpage and menus, and also in Mozilla Thunderbird and other places in Windows including the Windows applications context menu.
Run COM Registration Fixing tool
If you are getting any of the following problems below - with Windows unregistering some of the files needed by NVDA - the following tool section in NVDA will get you out of trouble. To access this tool press the NVDA key + letter N while NVDA is running. Arrow down to the tools menu. A submenu will come up. Arrow down to the menu called Run COM Registration Fixing tool... then press the Enter key.  It should register the files needed by NVDA.


Gene nz


On 20/11/2018 6:42 AM, Tejas Bendre wrote:
I am useing windows 10 64 bit home single language.
and i not uninstoal any softwear.
I also try nvda_snapshot_alpha-16247,fbae6b0b portebel verjun.
one more thing nvda also not reding contest menu.
 and this is happen only with NVDA.


On 11/19/18, hurrikennyandopo ... <hurrikennyandopo@...> wrote:
Hi


could i ask what the last bit of software was that was uninstalled and then
you noticed it happening?


By the way are you running a 32 or 64 bit operating system and which
version?


I was wondering if maybe it might of been the mathshtml add on that might of
caused it or when you uninstalled say office?


Gene nz


On 16/11/2018 2:06 AM, Tejas Bendre wrote:

I try this.
but not get sukcess.

On 11/15/18, hurrikennyandopo ...
<hurrikennyandopo@...><mailto:hurrikennyandopo@...> wrote:


Hi


have a look under the tools section in NVDA and look for a menu called Run
COM Registration Fixing tool... then press the enter key on it. I can not
remember if there were steps after it but it should reset the files and i
think the computer also has to be rebooted as well.


If it fixes the problem you should be able to use the browser as you were
before it happened.


Some times it would also affect the running application on the task bar and
say unknown etc and do some other weird stuff.


There is no documentation for it in the user manual but I think there
should
be so people know what it is for.


Gene nz


On 15/11/2018 7:34 AM, Tejas Bendre wrote:

Hello guys,
facing big problem with NVDA.
I am using Dell laptop With Windows 10 1803.
NVDA latest 18.3.2 version.
Whenever I open any browser NVDA not read anything it's just saying
unknown and unknown.
so this is happen with NVDA only.
 I try JAWS but JAWS working fine.

Actually same problem i was face with 1703 version.
but afther update in 1803  laptop verks 2 3 days.
and now same problem i am faceing.
i tryed all browsers.
So can anyone help me.





--
[Image NVDA          certified expert]
Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related
material
at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New
Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the
NVDA
screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or
location) is near to you please visit
http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa
People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you,
please
visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The
certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals
from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert
exam.











--
[Image NVDA          certified expert]
Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material
at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New
Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA
screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or
location) is near to you please visit
http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa
People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please
visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The
certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals
from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert
exam.






--
Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.


Re: wonder vs. wander

Kwork
 

Eye no on phones that can bee true four sure. Awl sew words with too ore three different ways of spelling them can cause problems. Walking outside too check the male fore instants can pro deuce to different meanings if considered closely. Fore the cited, the spelling inn this e male will look interesting inn certain sections, even though NVDA is saying awl words correctly, if exaggeratedly at times.

On 11/18/2018 11:41 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:
My suspicion, and not just in this case, is that there is a widespread use of dictation (speech-to-text) software these days.  With words such as wonder and wander, when said in the flow of normal speech often sound remarkably similar, as the vowel gets what I call "schwa-ed".  Unless you're using dictation software that has some AI features where it looks at surrounding context before closing in on the actual word wanted you'll often get substitutions like this.

It seems to be far more common on certain forums than others, and if I'm being perfectly honest it's way more common on blind and low-vision forums than elsewhere.  Since most individuals I know personally do know how to spell (at least as well as anyone else I know) and do so when typing, I have to suspect dictation software is at play at least a decent part of the time.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back