Date   

Re: Introducing TextNav add-on - a better way to browse Internet

 

Yes, that's a great addition to NVDA. Thanks Tony.
Nevzat

On 12/3/18, Antony Stone <antony.stone@...> wrote:
Please could you add an explicit statement indicating the licence under
which
this add-on is made available? The source code is clearly available on
Github, but is this under some version of GPL, a BSD licence, Apache...?

Thanks,


Antony.

On Monday 03 December 2018 at 01:25:18, Tony Malykh wrote:

Hello NVDA users

Today I am introducing TextNav add-on for NVDA - a better way to browse
Internet for the blind!

Have you ever felt that browsing new pages is frustrating when you
couldn't find the content on the page? Try TextNav - it will find the
right content for you in a single keystroke! TextNav is easy to use.
Listen to a quick demo (7minutes long audio):
https://soundcloud.com/user-977282820/textnav-promo

Here is the link to download TextNav:
https://addons.nvda-project.org/files/get.php?file=textnav

TextNav on github:
https://github.com/mltony/nvda-text-nav/

TextNav keystrokes:
* Alt+Shift+Down: Find next paragraph with text.
* Alt+Shift+Up: Find previous paragraph with text.

I hope you enjoy it! Any suggestions are welcome!

Sincerely,
Tony Malykh



--
"When you talk about Linux versus Windows, you're talking about which
operating system is the best value for money and fit for purpose. That's a
very
basic decision customers can make if they have the information available to

them. Quite frankly if we lose to Linux because our customers say it's
better
value for money, tough luck for us."

- Steve Vamos, MD of Microsoft Australia

Please reply to the
list;
please *don't* CC
me.




Re: Introducing TextNav add-on - a better way to browse Internet

Antony Stone
 

Please could you add an explicit statement indicating the licence under which
this add-on is made available? The source code is clearly available on
Github, but is this under some version of GPL, a BSD licence, Apache...?

Thanks,


Antony.

On Monday 03 December 2018 at 01:25:18, Tony Malykh wrote:

Hello NVDA users

Today I am introducing TextNav add-on for NVDA - a better way to browse
Internet for the blind!

Have you ever felt that browsing new pages is frustrating when you
couldn't find the content on the page? Try TextNav - it will find the
right content for you in a single keystroke! TextNav is easy to use.
Listen to a quick demo (7minutes long audio):
https://soundcloud.com/user-977282820/textnav-promo

Here is the link to download TextNav:
https://addons.nvda-project.org/files/get.php?file=textnav

TextNav on github:
https://github.com/mltony/nvda-text-nav/

TextNav keystrokes:
* Alt+Shift+Down: Find next paragraph with text.
* Alt+Shift+Up: Find previous paragraph with text.

I hope you enjoy it! Any suggestions are welcome!

Sincerely,
Tony Malykh



--
"When you talk about Linux versus Windows, you're talking about which
operating system is the best value for money and fit for purpose. That's a very
basic decision customers can make if they have the information available to
them. Quite frankly if we lose to Linux because our customers say it's better
value for money, tough luck for us."

- Steve Vamos, MD of Microsoft Australia

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.


Re: Introducing TextNav add-on - a better way to browse Internet

Gerardo Corripio
 

What’s the difference between using this add-on, versus NVDA+Contrl+f to find somehting?

Gera
Enviado desde mi iPhone SE de Telcel

El 2 dic 2018, a la(s) 6:25 p. m., Tony Malykh <anton.malykh@...> escribió:

Hello NVDA users

Today I am introducing TextNav add-on for NVDA - a better way to browse Internet for the blind!

Have you ever felt that browsing new pages is frustrating when you couldn't find the content on the page? Try TextNav - it will find the right content for you in a single keystroke! TextNav is easy to use. Listen to a quick demo (7minutes long audio):
https://soundcloud.com/user-977282820/textnav-promo

Here is the link to download TextNav:
https://addons.nvda-project.org/files/get.php?file=textnav

TextNav on github:
https://github.com/mltony/nvda-text-nav/

TextNav keystrokes:
* Alt+Shift+Down: Find next paragraph with text.
* Alt+Shift+Up: Find previous paragraph with text.

I hope you enjoy it! Any suggestions are welcome!

Sincerely,
Tony Malykh





Canada's Literature For the Blind Post Free Concession

Brian K. Lingard
 

Dear Tyler & List:
Trimmed several previous messages discussing stats on Braille display usage & government subsidies available for Braille displays.

The reason CNIB charges the maximum the Ontario ADP program will pay is simple, to effect maximum funds transfer to CNIB when ADP purchases goods, CNIB is an authorized Ontario ADP dealer, The Howe Press of Perkins School is not and is in a foreign country.
CNIB also loves veterans of Canada's Forces, as Veterans Affairs Canada never looks for a lower price for goods & services for veterans, accepting CNIB's prices. Not sure if other suppliers to Ontario ADP or Veterans Affairs Canada use a similar pricing model. If you wish to know what CNIB uses the profit on their sales of goods & services for, become a voting member of CNIB. Membership is available to anyone, client sighted alike. Membership is $5/year, lifetime is $100 or $150,you get a vote at the AGM of members, can stand for office, as well as have a vote at your Division and District AGM. Should you be voted onto their Finance or Audit Committees, I expect they will provide all manner of interesting facts & figures, just do not ask to see the spreadsheets providing the breakdown of salaries & wages by employee or expect to receive meaningful replies to questions as to whether the organization pays full commission, receives a preferential rate or deals with a Discount broker, such as TD Direct Trading or similar firms connected with most of our Chartered Banks. It appears many firms treat CNIB as a Piggy bank, charging for goods & services not actually provided, as one of Canada's leading hotel chains told a guest who was having their bill charged to CNIB, the hotel guest questioned one or more items billed to their room which they had not ordered, nor the hotel provided. You would know the hotel chain well, it runs many four and five diamond houses in Canada as well as in other countries. Therefore, if their broker for stock and bond transactions chooses to bill CNIB his full retail commission on transactions that would qualify for the Institutional commission, a fraction of retail, the CNIB National Board of Directors, will likely not question whether they could obtain just as good investment counsel and service on transactions at the same firm or elsewhere. This is partly due to the board members having no or limited business savvy, or perhaps other reasons, best not discussed on a public forum.
You are best to refer to the section Literature for the Blind in the Canada Postal Guide for the exact provisions of the concession, available from Public Works & Government Services Canada, Ottawa, Ont or Reneuf Publishing, a major dealer.
Or, telephone Canada Post Customer Service on their convenient toll-free number.

In general, the concession covers recorded or Braille letters, even Moon type would qualify, intended to be read by blind persons.
Includes Braille paper, writing equipment, parts for a Braille printing press, and related stuff. Not sure if it specifically mentions goods such as Braille or talking clocks, watches or a life-size replica of a clock high in its tower, in Westminster, London, with its largest bell known as Big Ben. A full-size replica of this clock would not meet the Canada Post 30 lb. weight limit on Literature for the blind. There are clockmakers in Toronto, and Ottawa willing to install and maintain your chiming tower clock with the Westminster Chime. They require a tower to install it in as well as help from a Hoisting Engineer with a crane of sufficient capacity.
Not sure about the clockmaker, however, the Bell Foundry which made the bells sharing Big Ben's belfry is still in business in the White chapel district of London. They can probably recommend a suitable clockmaker.

The concession offers similar benefits for qualifying mail addressed for delivery to the USA as well as other foreign lands. Mot sure if it gets a plane ride or goes by surface. It travels by airmail if this will expedite delivery within Canada. Believe foreign airmail service is available at Small Packet postage rate.

As this discussion is unrelated to NVDA, I recommend further discussion be taken to acb-chat@... or directly with me.
e-mail: BKL@...
Tel: +1 (613_) 7225-66602 087:00-23:00 Eastern Standard Time, 7 days a week.
Brian K. Lingard

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf of Tyler Wood
Sent: December 1, 2018 4:37
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] A random question, related to screen readers in general

Hi Brian,

I'm sorry - I'm just making sure I'm reading your message correctly.

Am I able to take advantage of free matter for the blind in Canada? Can I use this for sending things out of Canada or only receiving them and what specific items are included in that?

thank you so much for this information. CNIB does love to charge amazingly high prices for just about everything - and yet their services in pertinent areas, like mobility etc., suffers.
On 2018-12-01 2:07 a.m., Brian K. Lingard wrote:
Dear Erik & List:

If you quoted the CNIB price for a Perkins Classic Brailler, you may
find the price they are sold by Howe Press, Perkins School for The
Blind, Watertown, MA USA is significantly cheaper even after
converting their price in US funds to Canadian Dollars. Seems the
fewer hands these units pass through, the cheaper the price. Howe
Press is the makers. They offer excellent delivery by Free Matter for
The Blind from Watertown. I habitually buy all accessories for my
Brailler from them as they always have the items in stock.
At one point, CNIB was selling Perkins Braillers for $1,200/each, the
sum Ontario Assistive Devices Program would pay for them, while Howe
Press sold them for $US800. Even after conversion to Canadian Dollars,
I saved money, CNIB was as usual at the time, out of stock, did not
stock any accessories such as the wooden case, Sound Pad Etc. Howe
did, I had the unit in hand within about a week. It is interesting how
CNIB prices goods at the Maximum Ontario ADP will pay. While CNIB has
no shareholders to distribute profits to, it does not prevent them
reaping handsome profits. You can purchase Braille paper from APH,
Louisville, KY at a handsome savings over CNIB prices. Uncertain as to
why, CNIB pays postage on orders sent by mail, despite the Literature
for The Blind Post-Free concession covering everything imaginable for
the Blind, including Braille Press parts, paper Braillers Etc. with
Insurance and/or Registration at no fee. The concession is available
to any address in Canada, including addresses with fly-in only mail delivery, for points in the High Arctic.
Similar concessions apply to Foreign addresses, with the restriction
that only documents, not merchandise,, may be sent registered. Allow
1-2 weeks for delivery from APH by Free Matter.


Re: thunderbird 60 brakes reading of attachments

Brian's Mail list account
 

You would be better off putting this up as an issue on Github. a lot of the devs are very busy looking at the upcoming release and probably not looking here for problems to solve.
I don't use Tbird so cannot comment myself.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "enes sarıbaş" <enes.saribas@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, December 03, 2018 6:33 AM
Subject: [nvda] thunderbird 60 brakes reading of attachments


hi,

Str:

Add an attachment to a message in the compose dialogue box, and shift tab to attachments list.

expected: nvda reads attachment in a list, nd gives options to navigate and delete individual attachments.

actual: nvda anounces attachment list, attach file, alt+m

Could one of the devs please look into this?



Re: A few ideas about simplifying the structure of NVDA's "regular expression"

Brian's Mail list account
 

With respect that is not how I read what he said. I think its a more general wish that if you can define your needs it should be possible to create a rule from easy to enter needs.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Vogel" <britechguy@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2018 8:27 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] A few ideas about simplifying the structure of NVDA's "regular expression"


You are under the mistaken idea that any piece of software can be "all things to all people."

That is not, and never shall be, the way it works.

It's not wrong to express your wants and needs, but it's a very bad idea to believe that your own wants and needs should be the primary concern.
--

Brian *-* Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763

*A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.*

~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back


Re: A few ideas about simplifying the structure of NVDA's "regular expression"

Brian's Mail list account
 

I get the impression he was thinking of a kind of translator, ie here is what I need to happen, how can this be turned into a regular expression, assuming it can of course.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Vogel" <britechguy@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2018 7:20 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] A few ideas about simplifying the structure of NVDA's "regular expression"


On the contrary. I will be the first to admit that Regular Expression syntax is no breeze to learn, but it is by far the best pattern matching mechanism out there. Simple pattern matches require very simple regular expressions, while incredibly complex patterns that can be described verbally can be coded as regular expressions.

Mathematical notation is handled already by several different mechanisms.

Python is not any more or any less complicated than JAWS scripting, in my opinion.

None of this is primarily aimed at the end user, nor can it really be. Those who have complex and specific needs generally need to learn how to code for them.
--

Brian *-* Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763

*A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.*

~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back


Re: Introducing TextNav add-on - a better way to browse Internet

Gene
 

I'll discuss some points: 
First, something that I can comment on very briefly.  You only tried the skip blocks of links command on one site and, evidently, on one article.  I said that on some sites, one method works better and on others, another does.  The skip blocks of links command is an important and useful command.
 
It may be that some people want a very simple way to read articles on web pages and might have problems with using more complex ways, as you say.  My concern is that many people who can learn other ways that would give them far more versatility and who wouldn't have trouble doing so may be disuaded from doing so.  So perhaps you should discuss just what this is for and its limitations when you promote or describe it. It is a reading add-on that allows you to skip to the start of an article and skip all interruptions to the article such as groups of links to related material, advertisements image descriptions, and perhaps other things I haven't thought of.  I think that making this clear and saying that those who want to use the Internet in a wide variety of ways not involving mainly reading, such as music sites and search sites, still need to learn and become profficient in the other ways of web navigation NVDA offers.  I don't object to the add-on but there are many blind people who, because of a lack of knowledge or self-confidence, severely limit themselves because they don't realize or believe they can't do things they can do.  I'm not sure just how you would present the add-on but for a lot of people this would be an important convenience but you are extremely limited if you don't know enough about web page navigation to use search sites.  Even many of the older people you are discussing, I suspect, would want to know how to do basic searches. 
 
When I read a forum, I want to find a solution but what if I don't have any idea which might be more likely to work or come from a more knowledgeable user?  Being more knowledgeable doesn't necessarily mean the information is better but I consider it to be information to be aware of, whether someone is a high ranking member of a list, an employee of Microsoft or some other relevant company or organization, and other information, if available that may help me assess his reliability.  None of this is heard in the current way the add-on works. 
 
and there are lots of other kinds of forums.  Some people like to hang out on political forums.  they might well want to know who is writing so they can see if the person is worth reading and either skipping, skimming, or paying close attention to posts of certain authors. 
there are an enormous number of forums.  As I said, I don't know if the add-on can have some sort of forums mode.  I don't have the technical knowledge to know. 
 
also, you didn't respond to what I said about having an automatic reading mode.  This is an important feature.  Many people may use the add-on to find the beginning of an article but may not continue to use it to read the article because they don't want to issue a command every few sentences while reading.  If there were an automatic read command, this would allow people to read as they would when using the speak to end command.  But the add-on would skip any extraneous material and read the entire article without interruption or the need to repeatedly issue the read command.  .
 
And while this isn't a forum, consider something like the op-ed pages of a newspaper.  A bit of information may be provided about guest columnists that may be useful to readers.  If someone works at a conservative think tank, his views may be very different than someone who works for a liberal one.  If the person works for a specific company, I want to know that.  That puts me on guard that his views may be defending the company for which he works.  If such information is routinely stripped by the add-on, that is important. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2018 10:56 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Introducing TextNav add-on - a better way to browse Internet

Hi Gene,
Thank you for your feedback, I think these are very reasonable
questions you are raising.
1. I didn't claim that TextNav should replace the traditional way of
browsing internet. It should rather augment it, be an addition to the
standard navigation commands.
2. I see a lot of older blind people, for whom using computer is a
burden. You can claim they should still learn the proper way. Or you
can let them use the simpler way and let them enjoy what they can
enjoy with TextNav. Some of them might never be able to learn the
proper way - when you're 80 your brain doesn't work as well as when
you're 20. It is a question of simpler tools versus more powerful
tools. When cars with automatic transmission just appeared people were
claiming they are bad because the drivers will never learn to use the
clutch. Or when Windows appeared, some were claiming that it makes
people stupid, because they never learn the command-line way of unix.
Think of TextNav as a car with automatic transmission. And if you want
to learn more powerful ways to navigate web pages, NVDA browse mode
commands are always there.
3. I agree I might have slightly exaggerated about 13x speedup. But
when I use TextNav myself, I can browse the web many times faster.
4. I never knew of the N command in browse mode. I just tried it on
one web page and it seems to skip over the first paragraph of the
article. So you would have to press it a few times, try to figure out
if you are inside the article, and then go back up until you find the
beginning. All that compared to a single keystroke of TextNav.
5. Crackling sound can be turned off or made quieter in the settings.
6. Often times I just want to read the article. I don't want to read
the name of the author, date of publication, read the description of
the image. Sometimes the article is interesting, and I might want to
find the name of the author. Again, I can always do it with the
standard browse mode command. But Most of the times I don't care. By
skipping over these fields, you save a few seconds every time, but
this accumulates over the day into a much more efficient browsing
experience. Time will show how many NVDA users are like me not
interested in the name of the author.
7. Same thing on the forum. I come to forums to solve my problems,
like in my example, the problem with bluetooth headphones. I don't
care whatsoever what's the nickname of the guy who asked the question,
and I care much less who answered it.

Best regards
Tony


On 12/2/18, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
> I have some comments on your demo for TextNav.  First, it isn't a substitute
> for learning the layout and structures of web pages.  If you use it before
> you know these things, you may not learn to deal with other than straight
> reading situations well.
>
> Your claim that TextNav is thirteen times more efficient when reading the
> page you used is not correct.  it is thirteen times more efficient if you
> don't know how to work with internet pages for reading something like an
> article well, but you used a very inefficient method for your comparison.
> You didn't start at the top of the page and use the skip blocks of links
> command, the letter n.  That gets you much much closer to the article text
> because it skips most of the material on this page before the article
> starts.  On some pages, move by heading works better.  On some, move by skip
> nnavigation works bettter.  on some, move by heading, then using skip
> navigation links works better.  On some, the find command works better.  You
> may not find an efficient way to work with a page until you experiment.
> Once you do, you can use other article pages on that site the same way.
> I want to be clear.  I am not saying that the add-on isn't very useful in
> skipping to the first sentence of an article.  But you don't hear the
> author, you may not hear introductory material you might want to hear, and,
> if the article is more than two or three paragraphs, it would be exceedingly
> tedious to issue the move to next paragraph command repeatedly.  For a
> somewhat long news article or a somewhat long magazine article, I would
> imagine you might have to issue the command twenty or thirty or forty or
> more times.  The add-on needs an automated mode for straight reading
> uninterruptedly.
>
> And finally, your forum example demonstrates a real deficiency in the
> add-on.  It starts reading the text of the first post and skips all
> information about who wrote it or how old it is or any other information
> that might be of interest such as what rating the person has for reliability
> or what his credentials are.  Also, as you continue to read and even if you
> know when a second post is beginning to be read, you don't know who it is
> from.  You can't be sure all the time, I would think, who is commenting on
> comments for the first time or who is making comments after making other
> comments.  If the add-on is going to really be useful in such an
> environment, it needs to do more than just skip through entries by paragraph
> and not give you any information such as what I described.  I don't know if
> this can be done.  I don't know if a forums mode can be developed.  That is
> f o r u m, as discussion forum, not to be confused with what some people
> call forms mode in some browsers for filling out forms.
>
> In short, the add-on has potential and I am not attempting to discourage its
> further development.  Critics mmay be your best friends in such situations.
> But I think the add-on needs more work and refinement.
>
> and one last thing I forgot to mention earlier:
> The crackling sound should be able to be turned on and off.  If I'm reading,
> I don't necessarily want to hear extraneous sounds that notify me of
> something when I am reading an article and am not interested in knowing such
> other information.
>
> Gene
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Tony Malykh
> Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2018 6:25 PM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: [nvda] Introducing TextNav add-on - a better way to browse
> Internet
>
>
> Hello NVDA users
>
> Today I am introducing TextNav add-on for NVDA - a better way to browse
> Internet for the blind!
>
> Have you ever felt that browsing new pages is frustrating when you
> couldn't find the content on the page? Try TextNav - it will find the
> right content for you in a single keystroke! TextNav is easy to use.
> Listen to a quick demo (7minutes long audio):
> https://soundcloud.com/user-977282820/textnav-promo
>
> Here is the link to download TextNav:
> https://addons.nvda-project.org/files/get.php?file=textnav
>
> TextNav on github:
> https://github.com/mltony/nvda-text-nav/
>
> TextNav keystrokes:
> * Alt+Shift+Down: Find next paragraph with text.
> * Alt+Shift+Up: Find previous paragraph with text.
>
> I hope you enjoy it! Any suggestions are welcome!
>
> Sincerely,
> Tony Malykh
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>



thunderbird 60 brakes reading of attachments

enes sarıbaş
 

hi,

Str:

Add an attachment to a message in the compose dialogue box, and shift tab to attachments list.

expected: nvda reads attachment in a list, nd gives options to navigate and delete individual attachments.

actual: nvda anounces  attachment list, attach file, alt+m

Could one of the devs please look into this?


Re: Introducing TextNav add-on - a better way to browse Internet

Tony Malykh
 

Hi Gene,
Thank you for your feedback, I think these are very reasonable
questions you are raising.
1. I didn't claim that TextNav should replace the traditional way of
browsing internet. It should rather augment it, be an addition to the
standard navigation commands.
2. I see a lot of older blind people, for whom using computer is a
burden. You can claim they should still learn the proper way. Or you
can let them use the simpler way and let them enjoy what they can
enjoy with TextNav. Some of them might never be able to learn the
proper way - when you're 80 your brain doesn't work as well as when
you're 20. It is a question of simpler tools versus more powerful
tools. When cars with automatic transmission just appeared people were
claiming they are bad because the drivers will never learn to use the
clutch. Or when Windows appeared, some were claiming that it makes
people stupid, because they never learn the command-line way of unix.
Think of TextNav as a car with automatic transmission. And if you want
to learn more powerful ways to navigate web pages, NVDA browse mode
commands are always there.
3. I agree I might have slightly exaggerated about 13x speedup. But
when I use TextNav myself, I can browse the web many times faster.
4. I never knew of the N command in browse mode. I just tried it on
one web page and it seems to skip over the first paragraph of the
article. So you would have to press it a few times, try to figure out
if you are inside the article, and then go back up until you find the
beginning. All that compared to a single keystroke of TextNav.
5. Crackling sound can be turned off or made quieter in the settings.
6. Often times I just want to read the article. I don't want to read
the name of the author, date of publication, read the description of
the image. Sometimes the article is interesting, and I might want to
find the name of the author. Again, I can always do it with the
standard browse mode command. But Most of the times I don't care. By
skipping over these fields, you save a few seconds every time, but
this accumulates over the day into a much more efficient browsing
experience. Time will show how many NVDA users are like me not
interested in the name of the author.
7. Same thing on the forum. I come to forums to solve my problems,
like in my example, the problem with bluetooth headphones. I don't
care whatsoever what's the nickname of the guy who asked the question,
and I care much less who answered it.

Best regards
Tony

On 12/2/18, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
I have some comments on your demo for TextNav. First, it isn't a substitute
for learning the layout and structures of web pages. If you use it before
you know these things, you may not learn to deal with other than straight
reading situations well.

Your claim that TextNav is thirteen times more efficient when reading the
page you used is not correct. it is thirteen times more efficient if you
don't know how to work with internet pages for reading something like an
article well, but you used a very inefficient method for your comparison.
You didn't start at the top of the page and use the skip blocks of links
command, the letter n. That gets you much much closer to the article text
because it skips most of the material on this page before the article
starts. On some pages, move by heading works better. On some, move by skip
nnavigation works bettter. on some, move by heading, then using skip
navigation links works better. On some, the find command works better. You
may not find an efficient way to work with a page until you experiment.
Once you do, you can use other article pages on that site the same way.
I want to be clear. I am not saying that the add-on isn't very useful in
skipping to the first sentence of an article. But you don't hear the
author, you may not hear introductory material you might want to hear, and,
if the article is more than two or three paragraphs, it would be exceedingly
tedious to issue the move to next paragraph command repeatedly. For a
somewhat long news article or a somewhat long magazine article, I would
imagine you might have to issue the command twenty or thirty or forty or
more times. The add-on needs an automated mode for straight reading
uninterruptedly.

And finally, your forum example demonstrates a real deficiency in the
add-on. It starts reading the text of the first post and skips all
information about who wrote it or how old it is or any other information
that might be of interest such as what rating the person has for reliability
or what his credentials are. Also, as you continue to read and even if you
know when a second post is beginning to be read, you don't know who it is
from. You can't be sure all the time, I would think, who is commenting on
comments for the first time or who is making comments after making other
comments. If the add-on is going to really be useful in such an
environment, it needs to do more than just skip through entries by paragraph
and not give you any information such as what I described. I don't know if
this can be done. I don't know if a forums mode can be developed. That is
f o r u m, as discussion forum, not to be confused with what some people
call forms mode in some browsers for filling out forms.

In short, the add-on has potential and I am not attempting to discourage its
further development. Critics mmay be your best friends in such situations.
But I think the add-on needs more work and refinement.

and one last thing I forgot to mention earlier:
The crackling sound should be able to be turned on and off. If I'm reading,
I don't necessarily want to hear extraneous sounds that notify me of
something when I am reading an article and am not interested in knowing such
other information.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Tony Malykh
Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2018 6:25 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Introducing TextNav add-on - a better way to browse
Internet


Hello NVDA users

Today I am introducing TextNav add-on for NVDA - a better way to browse
Internet for the blind!

Have you ever felt that browsing new pages is frustrating when you
couldn't find the content on the page? Try TextNav - it will find the
right content for you in a single keystroke! TextNav is easy to use.
Listen to a quick demo (7minutes long audio):
https://soundcloud.com/user-977282820/textnav-promo

Here is the link to download TextNav:
https://addons.nvda-project.org/files/get.php?file=textnav

TextNav on github:
https://github.com/mltony/nvda-text-nav/

TextNav keystrokes:
* Alt+Shift+Down: Find next paragraph with text.
* Alt+Shift+Up: Find previous paragraph with text.

I hope you enjoy it! Any suggestions are welcome!

Sincerely,
Tony Malykh








Re: Introducing TextNav add-on - a better way to browse Internet

Gene
 

I have some comments on your demo for TextNav.  First, it isn't a substitute for learning the layout and structures of web pages.  If you use it before you know these things, you may not learn to deal with other than straight reading situations well.
 
Your claim that TextNav is thirteen times more efficient when reading the page you used is not correct.  it is thirteen times more efficient if you don't know how to work with internet pages for reading something like an article well, but you used a very inefficient method for your comparison.  You didn't start at the top of the page and use the skip blocks of links command, the letter n.  That gets you much much closer to the article text because it skips most of the material on this page before the article starts.  On some pages, move by heading works better.  On some, move by skip nnavigation works bettter.  on some, move by heading, then using skip navigation links works better.  On some, the find command works better.  You may not find an efficient way to work with a page until you experiment.  Once you do, you can use other article pages on that site the same way. 
I want to be clear.  I am not saying that the add-on isn't very useful in skipping to the first sentence of an article.  But you don't hear the author, you may not hear introductory material you might want to hear, and, if the article is more than two or three paragraphs, it would be exceedingly tedious to issue the move to next paragraph command repeatedly.  For a somewhat long news article or a somewhat long magazine article, I would imagine you might have to issue the command twenty or thirty or forty or more times.  The add-on needs an automated mode for straight reading uninterruptedly. 
 
And finally, your forum example demonstrates a real deficiency in the add-on.  It starts reading the text of the first post and skips all information about who wrote it or how old it is or any other information that might be of interest such as what rating the person has for reliability or what his credentials are.  Also, as you continue to read and even if you know when a second post is beginning to be read, you don't know who it is from.  You can't be sure all the time, I would think, who is commenting on comments for the first time or who is making comments after making other comments.  If the add-on is going to really be useful in such an environment, it needs to do more than just skip through entries by paragraph and not give you any information such as what I described.  I don't know if this can be done.  I don't know if a forums mode can be developed.  That is f o r u m, as discussion forum, not to be confused with what some people call forms mode in some browsers for filling out forms.
 
In short, the add-on has potential and I am not attempting to discourage its further development.  Critics mmay be your best friends in such situations.  But I think the add-on needs more work and refinement. 
 
and one last thing I forgot to mention earlier:
The crackling sound should be able to be turned on and off.  If I'm reading, I don't necessarily want to hear extraneous sounds that notify me of something when I am reading an article and am not interested in knowing such other information. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2018 6:25 PM
Subject: [nvda] Introducing TextNav add-on - a better way to browse Internet

Hello NVDA users

Today I am introducing TextNav add-on for NVDA - a better way to browse
Internet for the blind!

Have you ever felt that browsing new pages is frustrating when you
couldn't find the content on the page? Try TextNav - it will find the
right content for you in a single keystroke! TextNav is easy to use.
Listen to a quick demo (7minutes long audio):
https://soundcloud.com/user-977282820/textnav-promo

Here is the link to download TextNav:
https://addons.nvda-project.org/files/get.php?file=textnav

TextNav on github:
https://github.com/mltony/nvda-text-nav/

TextNav keystrokes:
* Alt+Shift+Down: Find next paragraph with text.
* Alt+Shift+Up: Find previous paragraph with text.

I hope you enjoy it! Any suggestions are welcome!

Sincerely,
Tony Malykh





Re: Introducing TextNav add-on - a better way to browse Internet

Lino Morales <linomorales001@...>
 

Hey Tony. This sounds great! Going to download it now. I hate trying to finding the start of an article. I.E. the articles on the Washing Times. Thanks.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Tony Malykh <anton.malykh@...>
Sent: Sunday, December 2, 2018 7:25:18 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Introducing TextNav add-on - a better way to browse Internet
 
Hello NVDA users

Today I am introducing TextNav add-on for NVDA - a better way to browse
Internet for the blind!

Have you ever felt that browsing new pages is frustrating when you
couldn't find the content on the page? Try TextNav - it will find the
right content for you in a single keystroke! TextNav is easy to use.
Listen to a quick demo (7minutes long audio):
https://soundcloud.com/user-977282820/textnav-promo

Here is the link to download TextNav:
https://addons.nvda-project.org/files/get.php?file=textnav

TextNav on github:
https://github.com/mltony/nvda-text-nav/

TextNav keystrokes:
* Alt+Shift+Down: Find next paragraph with text.
* Alt+Shift+Up: Find previous paragraph with text.

I hope you enjoy it! Any suggestions are welcome!

Sincerely,
Tony Malykh






Re: Introducing TextNav add-on - a better way to browse Internet

Ian Blackburn
 

It’s definitely worth using
Using now

Ian

On 3 Dec 2018, at 9:24 am, Rosemarie Chavarria <knitqueen2007@...> wrote:

This sounds really great. I have trouble reading some articles on the Dodgers site so this sounds like it'll be helpful.



-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tony Malykh
Sent: Sunday, December 2, 2018 4:25 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Introducing TextNav add-on - a better way to browse Internet

Hello NVDA users

Today I am introducing TextNav add-on for NVDA - a better way to browse Internet for the blind!

Have you ever felt that browsing new pages is frustrating when you couldn't find the content on the page? Try TextNav - it will find the right content for you in a single keystroke! TextNav is easy to use.
Listen to a quick demo (7minutes long audio):
https://soundcloud.com/user-977282820/textnav-promo

Here is the link to download TextNav:
https://addons.nvda-project.org/files/get.php?file=textnav

TextNav on github:
https://github.com/mltony/nvda-text-nav/

TextNav keystrokes:
* Alt+Shift+Down: Find next paragraph with text.
* Alt+Shift+Up: Find previous paragraph with text.

I hope you enjoy it! Any suggestions are welcome!

Sincerely,
Tony Malykh


Re: Introducing TextNav add-on - a better way to browse Internet

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

This sounds really great. I have trouble reading some articles on the Dodgers site so this sounds like it'll be helpful.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tony Malykh
Sent: Sunday, December 2, 2018 4:25 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Introducing TextNav add-on - a better way to browse Internet

Hello NVDA users

Today I am introducing TextNav add-on for NVDA - a better way to browse Internet for the blind!

Have you ever felt that browsing new pages is frustrating when you couldn't find the content on the page? Try TextNav - it will find the right content for you in a single keystroke! TextNav is easy to use.
Listen to a quick demo (7minutes long audio):
https://soundcloud.com/user-977282820/textnav-promo

Here is the link to download TextNav:
https://addons.nvda-project.org/files/get.php?file=textnav

TextNav on github:
https://github.com/mltony/nvda-text-nav/

TextNav keystrokes:
* Alt+Shift+Down: Find next paragraph with text.
* Alt+Shift+Up: Find previous paragraph with text.

I hope you enjoy it! Any suggestions are welcome!

Sincerely,
Tony Malykh


Introducing TextNav add-on - a better way to browse Internet

Tony Malykh
 

Hello NVDA users

Today I am introducing TextNav add-on for NVDA - a better way to browse Internet for the blind!

Have you ever felt that browsing new pages is frustrating when you couldn't find the content on the page? Try TextNav - it will find the right content for you in a single keystroke! TextNav is easy to use. Listen to a quick demo (7minutes long audio):
https://soundcloud.com/user-977282820/textnav-promo

Here is the link to download TextNav:
https://addons.nvda-project.org/files/get.php?file=textnav

TextNav on github:
https://github.com/mltony/nvda-text-nav/

TextNav keystrokes:
* Alt+Shift+Down: Find next paragraph with text.
* Alt+Shift+Up: Find previous paragraph with text.

I hope you enjoy it! Any suggestions are welcome!

Sincerely,
Tony Malykh


Re: google history

Quentin Christensen
 

When the page first loads, it displays a pop-up telling you all the wondrous things you can do here.  I found I could easily navigate between the next and previous (after going to next at least once) buttons, but had to use object navigation (Next and previous objects) to read the information).  There are a couple of screens and then it takes you to the history itself.  Once there, I could read the page ok.


On Mon, Dec 3, 2018 at 7:46 AM Don H <lmddh50@...> wrote:
Running latest NVDA on a Win 10 1809 system.  Tried to use NVDA on the
site to remove all your google chrome history.
You go to history.googgle.com
NVDA would not read the data on the page to allow you to make choices to
remove your history.  I was able to do it with Jaws 2019.
NVDA is my screen reader of choice so wish I could have done it with NVDA.






--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Re: BETA2 DOESN'T READ TABLES IN PDF DOCUMENTS

Quentin Christensen
 

I think the issues are probably a little from column A, a little from column B :)

(Did you like what I did there *grin*)

Seriously though, opening the PDF file in Word was a good tip, thanks for sharing!

Quentin.

On Mon, Dec 3, 2018 at 1:23 AM Alexandre Alves Toco <alexandretoco@...> wrote:

Hi Quentin, I understood your point.

Since I could find the tables when I opened the pdf with word, I assume the tables must be there also if I open the pdf with adobe.

But I tried to read the tables in adobe with jaws and it fails too.

So I believe the document really has format problems or it is related with adobe reader in general.

 

Enviado do Email para Windows 10

 

De: Quentin Christensen
Enviado:sábado, 1 de dezembro de 2018 00:24
Para: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Assunto: Re: [nvda] BETA2 DOESN'T READ TABLES IN PDF DOCUMENTS

 

Just to be clear, I wasn't saying "It works fine, there's no problem", I was saying that NVDA can read (properly constructed) tables in PDF files in Adobe reader, and I double checked that with such a file in the latest version of Adobe Reader DC using NVDA 2018.4beta2.  I could still read such a file, therefore from what I can tell, it is likely an issue with the particular file being read, rather than, for instance, recent versions of NVDA no longer being able to read tables.

 

And yes, as Brian noted, you can't send attachments to the list - feel free to send it to me directly to info@...

 

Regards

 

Quentin.

 

On Sat, Dec 1, 2018 at 1:42 AM Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:

This is probably the age old issue of tagging reading order then. I am
really peed off with people saying it looks fine to us when I complain about
all words running together, being split mid word. a word per line or tables
that are scrambled or pages 1 and four then two and three reading in that
order. All of these seem to be due to the fact that since no reading order
is specified when it changes from normal basic right to left top to bottom
all sorts of chaos ensues when the  screenreader starts to read from the
change.
  Bah Humbug.
 Reading order should be forced on pdf makers or else.
 Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Quentin Christensen" <quentin@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2018 3:22 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] BETA2 DOESN'T READ TABLES IN PDF DOCUMENTS


I just tried with a file in Adobe Reader 2019.008.20081 and I can read and
navigate the table in this PDF file ok.

It is quite likely the way that the PDF file was made, which you'll likely
only know if you were the one who created it.

If you can email it to me, I can have a look, but short of recreating the
PDF from the original source, there's probably not a lot to do with an
existing file.

Regards

Quentin.

On Fri, Nov 30, 2018 at 12:19 PM Alexandre Alves Toco <
alexandretoco@...> wrote:

> Hi, opened a pdf that has a table in adobe reader.
>
> Same problem as 2018.3.2. Nvda doesn’t recognize the table.
>
>
>
>
>
> Enviado do Email <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> para
> Windows 10
>
>
>
>


--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess







 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 

 



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Re: Anyone having problems with yesterdays Alpha Snap?

Kevin Cussick
 

Hi, no with ff as well but on the same make and model of the lenovo the snap works same make model and OS. The only thing I can think of on the machine that the snap works well with I don't get all the garbage when I go into settings I mean like windows update, I am sure this is the problem. but don't want to reinstall windows from scratch again. the last alpha before Fridays one did not behave like this.

On 02/12/2018 09:29, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
Is this only in Thunderbird. as I am using it   now in windows 7 on a microsoft email client and have tried it in Firefox and various parts of Windows with  noo apparent difference to any other version of nvda.
I'm using it as a portable version here.
Brian
bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Cussick via Groups.Io" <the.big.white.shepherd@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2018 10:41 PM
Subject: [nvda] Anyone having problems with yesterdays Alpha Snap?

Hi all,   I downloaded yesterdays Alpha snapshot,   but I get some error about some hook problem I am sorry I clicked Ok and nvda didn't read anything in thunderbird it could read the subject but when you opened any mail it seemed blank.   I uninstalled it and went back to the latest beta think it is beta4 now I am sorry I should have tried to get the log to someone but it was behaving so badly and it was quite late,   I just wonder if anyone else has had any trouble with yesterdays snap. I am using a lenovo all in one and windows10 home 64 bit.



google history

Don H
 

Running latest NVDA on a Win 10 1809 system. Tried to use NVDA on the site to remove all your google chrome history.
You go to history.googgle.com
NVDA would not read the data on the page to allow you to make choices to remove your history. I was able to do it with Jaws 2019.
NVDA is my screen reader of choice so wish I could have done it with NVDA.


Re: A few ideas about simplifying the structure of NVDA's "regular expression"

 

You are under the mistaken idea that any piece of software can be "all things to all people."

That is not, and never shall be, the way it works.

It's not wrong to express your wants and needs, but it's a very bad idea to believe that your own wants and needs should be the primary concern.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 

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