Date   

Re: NVDA reading incorrect content when focus is on the Main frame of the page

Gene
 

Are you asking about submitting the site to the state of Texas?  I don't know what their standards are, if that is what you are asking.  The problem appears to me to be minor, but I'm not sure if I'm experiencing the problems as you are since I'm using old versions of Chrome and NVDA. 
 
Do you want to submit the question to a place that might be able to give you knowledgeable advice?  List members might be able to tell you where you might get such advice.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2018 6:54 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA reading incorrect content when focus is on the Main frame of the page

Would this be an impact while submitting the product for Texas submission? Is it something that's impacting big time.
Please confirm.


Re: NVDA reading incorrect content when focus is on the Main frame of the page

tarveen.kaur@...
 

Would this be an impact while submitting the product for Texas submission? Is it something that's impacting big time.
Please confirm.


Re: some questions about chrome

Vlad Dragomir
 

Hello,

 

Here’s an attempt to answer:

  1. I don’t think there is another hotkey for that, but honestly I don’t think we need one. Pressing alt+shift+a and choosing between yes and no seems quick enough to me.
  2. Settings/passwords. That’s where everything related to passwords can be dealt with.

Hope this will help a little.

 

Vlad.


some questions about chrome

P. Otter
 

hello all,
my firefox was rather old, i've updated it but i'm not impressed about the new firefox.
so it is time to say bye bye to firefox.
chrome is a lot more quick.
but i've some questions about chrome i hope there is some one who can help me.
1 when i've  visit a web page, chrome asks me to save the password and name.
yes or no.
but when i try to find yes with the arrow keys, the question is disappeared.
I can'nt find it back.
but I've found out that i can repeat is by pressing alt plus shift plus a.
is there a possibility to geve yes or no with a special key?
question 2
I visit a page but I do'nt want to save the password, because I don't know for sure if i come back on that page.
after a few times I visit the page i want to save the password and name          yet.
how can i ask now chrome to save the name and password?
thanks in advance
paul otter


Re: What are Guide and Leasey?

Peter Beasley
 

                It is also over priced.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: 04 December 2018 07:39
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] What are Guide and Leasey?

 

Guide is a piece of integrated software sold by Dolphin that allows people

who do not want to learn windows to access certain tasks in a self voicing

program. The last one I saw had basic email word processing OCR and the like

but had the naffest web browser  I've ever seen. grin.

Brian

 

bglists@...

Sent via blueyonder.

Please address personal E-mail to:-

briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'

in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----

From: "Kwork" <istherelife@...>

To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>

Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2018 1:39 AM

Subject: [nvda] What are Guide and Leasey?

 

 

> So as not to hijack another thread where these two programs are mentioned,

> I thought I'd create a new thread.

> In the TextNav thread, David Goldfield mentioned Guide and Leasey. I just

> wondered what these two programs are. Thanks.

> Travis

>

>

 

 

 

 


Re: What are Guide and Leasey?

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

So I'm assuming then they are tackling a similar market albeit in a different way.
Guide is OK but send it a big docx file or pdf and it tends to fall over.

In my experience.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "JM Casey" <jmcasey@teksavvy.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2018 1:44 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] What are Guide and Leasey?


I've not heard of Guide before, but Leasey is a set of JAWS scripts provided by a third party for users of that screen-reader. They are supposed to automate certain tasks and make things "easier" for the user in some way, but I've never quite been able to figure out exactly how, even looking at the company's website. I suppose, as suggested above, they change the interface the user interacts with certain applications, making them more menu-driven.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kwork
Sent: December 3, 2018 8:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] What are Guide and Leasey?

So as not to hijack another thread where these two programs are mentioned, I thought I'd create a new thread.

In the TextNav thread, David Goldfield mentioned Guide and Leasey. I just wondered what these two programs are. Thanks.

Travis


Re: What are Guide and Leasey?

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Guide is a piece of integrated software sold by Dolphin that allows people who do not want to learn windows to access certain tasks in a self voicing program. The last one I saw had basic email word processing OCR and the like but had the naffest web browser I've ever seen. grin.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Kwork" <istherelife@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2018 1:39 AM
Subject: [nvda] What are Guide and Leasey?


So as not to hijack another thread where these two programs are mentioned, I thought I'd create a new thread.

In the TextNav thread, David Goldfield mentioned Guide and Leasey. I just wondered what these two programs are. Thanks.

Travis



Re: Introducing TextNav add-on - a better way to browse Internet

Kwork
 

Insert+n to get to the NVDA menu.

Up or down arrow to preferences., then press right arrow to open preferences.

Up arrow to TextNav, and press enter.

Now you will be in the TextNav settings where you can set the volume of the sounds.

Travis

On 12/3/2018 10:52 PM, George McCoy wrote:
How do I get to the settings dialog to turn crackles off?


Thanks,

George

On 12/2/2018 10:56 PM, Tony Malykh wrote:
Hi Gene,
Thank you for your feedback, I think these are very reasonable
questions you are raising.
1. I didn't claim that TextNav should replace the traditional way of
browsing internet. It should rather augment it, be an addition to the
standard navigation commands.
2. I see a lot of older blind people, for whom using computer is a
burden. You can claim they should still learn the proper way. Or you
can let them use the simpler way and let them enjoy what they can
enjoy with TextNav. Some of them might never be able to learn the
proper way - when you're 80 your brain doesn't work as well as when
you're 20. It is a question of simpler tools versus more powerful
tools. When cars with automatic transmission just appeared people were
claiming they are bad because the drivers will never learn to use the
clutch. Or when Windows appeared, some were claiming that it makes
people stupid, because they never learn the command-line way of unix.
Think of TextNav as a car with automatic transmission. And if you want
to learn more powerful ways to navigate web pages, NVDA browse mode
commands are always there.
3. I agree I might have slightly exaggerated about 13x speedup. But
when I use TextNav myself, I can browse the web many times faster.
4. I never knew of the N command in browse mode. I just tried it on
one web page and it seems to skip over the first paragraph of the
article. So you would have to press it a few times, try to figure out
if you are inside the article, and then go back up until you find the
beginning. All that compared to a single keystroke of TextNav.
5. Crackling sound can be turned off or made quieter in the settings.
6. Often times I just want to read the article. I don't want to read
the name of the author, date of publication, read the description of
the image. Sometimes the article is interesting, and I might want to
find the name of the author. Again, I can always do it with the
standard browse mode command. But Most of the times I don't care. By
skipping over these fields, you save a few seconds every time, but
this accumulates over the day into a much more efficient browsing
experience. Time will show how many NVDA users are like me not
interested in the name of the author.
7. Same thing on the forum. I come to forums to solve my problems,
like in my example, the problem with bluetooth headphones. I don't
care whatsoever what's the nickname of the guy who asked the question,
and I care much less who answered it.

Best regards
Tony


On 12/2/18, Gene <gsasner@gmail.com> wrote:
I have some comments on your demo for TextNav.  First, it isn't a substitute
for learning the layout and structures of web pages.  If you use it before
you know these things, you may not learn to deal with other than straight
reading situations well.

Your claim that TextNav is thirteen times more efficient when reading the
page you used is not correct.  it is thirteen times more efficient if you
don't know how to work with internet pages for reading something like an
article well, but you used a very inefficient method for your comparison.
You didn't start at the top of the page and use the skip blocks of links
command, the letter n.  That gets you much much closer to the article text
because it skips most of the material on this page before the article
starts.  On some pages, move by heading works better.  On some, move by skip
nnavigation works bettter.  on some, move by heading, then using skip
navigation links works better.  On some, the find command works better.  You
may not find an efficient way to work with a page until you experiment.
Once you do, you can use other article pages on that site the same way.
I want to be clear.  I am not saying that the add-on isn't very useful in
skipping to the first sentence of an article.  But you don't hear the
author, you may not hear introductory material you might want to hear, and,
if the article is more than two or three paragraphs, it would be exceedingly
tedious to issue the move to next paragraph command repeatedly.  For a
somewhat long news article or a somewhat long magazine article, I would
imagine you might have to issue the command twenty or thirty or forty or
more times.  The add-on needs an automated mode for straight reading
uninterruptedly.

And finally, your forum example demonstrates a real deficiency in the
add-on.  It starts reading the text of the first post and skips all
information about who wrote it or how old it is or any other information
that might be of interest such as what rating the person has for reliability
or what his credentials are.  Also, as you continue to read and even if you
know when a second post is beginning to be read, you don't know who it is
from.  You can't be sure all the time, I would think, who is commenting on
comments for the first time or who is making comments after making other
comments.  If the add-on is going to really be useful in such an
environment, it needs to do more than just skip through entries by paragraph
and not give you any information such as what I described.  I don't know if
this can be done.  I don't know if a forums mode can be developed.  That is
f o r u m, as discussion forum, not to be confused with what some people
call forms mode in some browsers for filling out forms.

In short, the add-on has potential and I am not attempting to discourage its
further development.  Critics mmay be your best friends in such situations.
But I think the add-on needs more work and refinement.

and one last thing I forgot to mention earlier:
The crackling sound should be able to be turned on and off. If I'm reading,
I don't necessarily want to hear extraneous sounds that notify me of
something when I am reading an article and am not interested in knowing such
other information.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Tony Malykh
Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2018 6:25 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Introducing TextNav add-on - a better way to browse
Internet


Hello NVDA users

Today I am introducing TextNav add-on for NVDA - a better way to browse
Internet for the blind!

Have you ever felt that browsing new pages is frustrating when you
couldn't find the content on the page? Try TextNav - it will find the
right content for you in a single keystroke! TextNav is easy to use.
Listen to a quick demo (7minutes long audio):
https://soundcloud.com/user-977282820/textnav-promo

Here is the link to download TextNav:
https://addons.nvda-project.org/files/get.php?file=textnav

TextNav on github:
https://github.com/mltony/nvda-text-nav/

TextNav keystrokes:
* Alt+Shift+Down: Find next paragraph with text.
* Alt+Shift+Up: Find previous paragraph with text.

I hope you enjoy it! Any suggestions are welcome!

Sincerely,
Tony Malykh









Re: Introducing TextNav add-on - a better way to browse Internet

George McCoy <slr1bpz@...>
 

How do I get to the settings dialog to turn crackles off?


Thanks,

George

On 12/2/2018 10:56 PM, Tony Malykh wrote:
Hi Gene,
Thank you for your feedback, I think these are very reasonable
questions you are raising.
1. I didn't claim that TextNav should replace the traditional way of
browsing internet. It should rather augment it, be an addition to the
standard navigation commands.
2. I see a lot of older blind people, for whom using computer is a
burden. You can claim they should still learn the proper way. Or you
can let them use the simpler way and let them enjoy what they can
enjoy with TextNav. Some of them might never be able to learn the
proper way - when you're 80 your brain doesn't work as well as when
you're 20. It is a question of simpler tools versus more powerful
tools. When cars with automatic transmission just appeared people were
claiming they are bad because the drivers will never learn to use the
clutch. Or when Windows appeared, some were claiming that it makes
people stupid, because they never learn the command-line way of unix.
Think of TextNav as a car with automatic transmission. And if you want
to learn more powerful ways to navigate web pages, NVDA browse mode
commands are always there.
3. I agree I might have slightly exaggerated about 13x speedup. But
when I use TextNav myself, I can browse the web many times faster.
4. I never knew of the N command in browse mode. I just tried it on
one web page and it seems to skip over the first paragraph of the
article. So you would have to press it a few times, try to figure out
if you are inside the article, and then go back up until you find the
beginning. All that compared to a single keystroke of TextNav.
5. Crackling sound can be turned off or made quieter in the settings.
6. Often times I just want to read the article. I don't want to read
the name of the author, date of publication, read the description of
the image. Sometimes the article is interesting, and I might want to
find the name of the author. Again, I can always do it with the
standard browse mode command. But Most of the times I don't care. By
skipping over these fields, you save a few seconds every time, but
this accumulates over the day into a much more efficient browsing
experience. Time will show how many NVDA users are like me not
interested in the name of the author.
7. Same thing on the forum. I come to forums to solve my problems,
like in my example, the problem with bluetooth headphones. I don't
care whatsoever what's the nickname of the guy who asked the question,
and I care much less who answered it.

Best regards
Tony


On 12/2/18, Gene <gsasner@gmail.com> wrote:
I have some comments on your demo for TextNav. First, it isn't a substitute
for learning the layout and structures of web pages. If you use it before
you know these things, you may not learn to deal with other than straight
reading situations well.

Your claim that TextNav is thirteen times more efficient when reading the
page you used is not correct. it is thirteen times more efficient if you
don't know how to work with internet pages for reading something like an
article well, but you used a very inefficient method for your comparison.
You didn't start at the top of the page and use the skip blocks of links
command, the letter n. That gets you much much closer to the article text
because it skips most of the material on this page before the article
starts. On some pages, move by heading works better. On some, move by skip
nnavigation works bettter. on some, move by heading, then using skip
navigation links works better. On some, the find command works better. You
may not find an efficient way to work with a page until you experiment.
Once you do, you can use other article pages on that site the same way.
I want to be clear. I am not saying that the add-on isn't very useful in
skipping to the first sentence of an article. But you don't hear the
author, you may not hear introductory material you might want to hear, and,
if the article is more than two or three paragraphs, it would be exceedingly
tedious to issue the move to next paragraph command repeatedly. For a
somewhat long news article or a somewhat long magazine article, I would
imagine you might have to issue the command twenty or thirty or forty or
more times. The add-on needs an automated mode for straight reading
uninterruptedly.

And finally, your forum example demonstrates a real deficiency in the
add-on. It starts reading the text of the first post and skips all
information about who wrote it or how old it is or any other information
that might be of interest such as what rating the person has for reliability
or what his credentials are. Also, as you continue to read and even if you
know when a second post is beginning to be read, you don't know who it is
from. You can't be sure all the time, I would think, who is commenting on
comments for the first time or who is making comments after making other
comments. If the add-on is going to really be useful in such an
environment, it needs to do more than just skip through entries by paragraph
and not give you any information such as what I described. I don't know if
this can be done. I don't know if a forums mode can be developed. That is
f o r u m, as discussion forum, not to be confused with what some people
call forms mode in some browsers for filling out forms.

In short, the add-on has potential and I am not attempting to discourage its
further development. Critics mmay be your best friends in such situations.
But I think the add-on needs more work and refinement.

and one last thing I forgot to mention earlier:
The crackling sound should be able to be turned on and off. If I'm reading,
I don't necessarily want to hear extraneous sounds that notify me of
something when I am reading an article and am not interested in knowing such
other information.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Tony Malykh
Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2018 6:25 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Introducing TextNav add-on - a better way to browse
Internet


Hello NVDA users

Today I am introducing TextNav add-on for NVDA - a better way to browse
Internet for the blind!

Have you ever felt that browsing new pages is frustrating when you
couldn't find the content on the page? Try TextNav - it will find the
right content for you in a single keystroke! TextNav is easy to use.
Listen to a quick demo (7minutes long audio):
https://soundcloud.com/user-977282820/textnav-promo

Here is the link to download TextNav:
https://addons.nvda-project.org/files/get.php?file=textnav

TextNav on github:
https://github.com/mltony/nvda-text-nav/

TextNav keystrokes:
* Alt+Shift+Down: Find next paragraph with text.
* Alt+Shift+Up: Find previous paragraph with text.

I hope you enjoy it! Any suggestions are welcome!

Sincerely,
Tony Malykh








Re: Introducing TextNav add-on - a better way to browse Internet

George McCoy <slr1bpz@...>
 

nvda plus ctrl plus f only works if you know what you are looking for.  Textnav seems to find the first paragraph of text.


George

On 12/3/2018 6:26 AM, Gerardo Corripio wrote:
What’s the difference between using this add-on, versus NVDA+Contrl+f to find somehting?

Gera
Enviado desde mi iPhone SE de Telcel

El 2 dic 2018, a la(s) 6:25 p. m., Tony Malykh <anton.malykh@gmail.com> escribió:

Hello NVDA users

Today I am introducing TextNav add-on for NVDA - a better way to browse Internet for the blind!

Have you ever felt that browsing new pages is frustrating when you couldn't find the content on the page? Try TextNav - it will find the right content for you in a single keystroke! TextNav is easy to use. Listen to a quick demo (7minutes long audio):
https://soundcloud.com/user-977282820/textnav-promo

Here is the link to download TextNav:
https://addons.nvda-project.org/files/get.php?file=textnav

TextNav on github:
https://github.com/mltony/nvda-text-nav/

TextNav keystrokes:
* Alt+Shift+Down: Find next paragraph with text.
* Alt+Shift+Up: Find previous paragraph with text.

I hope you enjoy it! Any suggestions are welcome!

Sincerely,
Tony Malykh





Re: Introducing TextNav add-on - a better way to browse Internet

Chris Shook <chris0309@...>
 

I just tested the text nav addon and so far, I have to say it makes looking up information on webpages so much easier.
So many pages are bogged down with adds, video clips, and various other nonsense it can make it very difficult to navigate them.
THis addon makes it so much easier to find the text so you can read the article you are trying to read.
Thank you to whoever created this addon.
Chris


Re: Introducing TextNav add-on - a better way to browse Internet

Gene
 

If people had understood what I said, I wouldn't have continued to write.  People keep objecting to things I didn't say.  Sorry I bothered in the first place.  I won't make another peep, not one more comment about anything said in this thread.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, December 03, 2018 6:51 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Introducing TextNav add-on - a better way to browse Internet

Thank goodness my delete key is working well! I don't remember ever having seen so much wordage about nothing! It's just been amazing.


Steve


On 12/3/2018 6:47 PM, Dale Leavens wrote:
You just can’t leave it alone can you?

How long must this thread run after it is no longer expanding any understanding or value?

Is it really necessary to make your point over absolutely every post?

I realize all about the delete function and make liberal use of it. 

Cheers!

Dale Leavens

On Dec 3, 2018, at 6:26 PM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

I didn't say it would be generally harmful nor that anyone will stop using other navigation techniques.  I'm only talking about inexperienced users and I'm saying that claiming that this app will do ninety percent of what you want to do on the Internet may dissuade them from learning other things they should know.
 
I strongly disagree that you have to hype and oversell something in order to get people to use it.  I would use it except that I'm waiting for a read to end feature and I know exactly what it does because of your demonstration.  Experienced users know what it does and a lot of them will use it as well, unless they are waiting for something specific like a read to end feature.
When add-ons for Firefox and Chrome came out that are reading add-ons, many blind people were interested.
 
Many people oversell NVDA as well.  It isn't necessary.  Just describing the product or demonstrating it is more than convincing enough.  The same for this app.  If people weren't interested in the past, the cause was something else.  If your audio demonstration called it a reading app and you had demonstrated its use, that would have been just as effective.  And you could make statements such as, a lot of what people do on the Internet is read articles.  This app will save a lot of time and make this much easier and more convenient.  Then, you can demonstrate it, just as you did.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, December 03, 2018 5:04 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Introducing TextNav add-on - a better way to browse Internet

Gene,
I think we have two main points of disagreement: the first being the
description of TextNav, and the second being whether TextNav will be
harmful in the long run since people will stop learning browse mode
commands.
1. Yes, you can call TextNav a reading add-on. I would even agree with
you, it is a reading add-on indeed. The other day Joseph Lee announced
TextNav as better paragraph navigation commands. He is right too.
However nobody would download and try using an add-on, that provides
better paragraph navigation. Nobody would be excited about a reading
add-on. That's why I call it the new way of browsing Internet. I'm
running a marketing campaign, I hope not that dirty. But I'm just
trying to attract some attention. Hopefully to everyone's benefit.
Nobody would have bought the first car in the world if this car was
advertised as a better horse carriage, even though that would've been
an accurate description for 19-th century person. Nobody would have
bought the first computer if it was called a better calculator. I hope
you see my point.
2.I don't have any new arguments here either. I think time will show
whether TextNav will end up being useful or detrimental for NVDA
community. I hope nobody would propose to delete TextNav in fear that
people would forget how to use browse mode commands. And I feel that
if not me, someone else would've eventually come up with this idea
anyway.

Best
Tony


On 12/3/18, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
> I'll say at this point that I probably won't write more in the thread.  I've
> said what I have to say and I'vew explained it more clearly as the thread
> continued and as I saw more clearly what the main issue is and how to
> present it.  Many people have evidently misunderstood what I said, at least
> before reading my last explanatory message.  But pretty much anything more I
> would say would be repetition.
>
> Gene
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Gene via Groups.Io
> Sent: Monday, December 03, 2018 4:34 PM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Introducing TextNav add-on - a better way to browse
> Internet
>
>
> I'm sorry, but I don't know what lists you are referring to.  That is not
> the case here nor on the lists I'm a member of.  And I didn't say anything
> about doing things the hardest way possible as being preferred.  See the
> last message I sent which explains in the best way, what my position is.
>
> Comparing blind and sighted people in the way you are doing is invalid.  for
> one thing, the Internet is designed to be visually intuitive for sighted
> people.  They don't have to learn nearly as much to use it effectively.  and
> in your work place, if the training was inadequate, that is the fault of
> those who prepared and administered the training.  But what does that have
> to do with what we are talking about?
>
> Gene
> ----- Original message -----
>
> From: Andy
> Sent: Monday, December 03, 2018 4:21 PM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Introducing TextNav add-on - a better way to browse
> Internet
>
>
> If this list were composed of sighted persons we wouldn't even be having
> this discussion.  Whenever topics like this come up on a blind list, there
> is always a chorus that keeps singing the virtues of doing things the
> hardest way possible.  I recall in the mid 90s when individual employees at
> our facility were issues PCs and were expected to use them.  many of the
> staff were older and had no experience using a PC.  There were classes, but
> they were designed to be short in duration, and they made many assumptions
> about the level of experience and ability of the persons taking the class.
> It was quite common for people to ask for assistance from coworkers who were
> more experienced.  That assistance was always gladly given, in fact, I gave
> much assistance myself.
> I do not recall anyone telling someone to read a manual, etc.  But on these
> lists people are often called out when they ask for assistance, or a
> developer who wants to address a need is told that their product is either
> unnecessary or even harmful. The range of experience and ability is just as
> wide among the blind as among the sighted.  Why can't we demonstrate the
> same level of understanding and compassion as we did at our facility?  If an
> add on or software program can enable someone to benefit from computing who
> might otherwise be deprived of this benefit, why not support it?  There is
> way too much computer equipment sitting in closets gathering dust because
> people did not receive the support they needed to learn to use it, and were
> often put down when they came on lists, chats, etc. and asked for help. I
> commend Tony for his efforts and wish him success.
>
> Andy
>
> "He who lives on hope will die of starvation".
> Benjamin Franklin
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Brian Vogel
>   To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>   Sent: Monday, December 03, 2018 1:25 PM
>   Subject: Re: [nvda] Introducing TextNav add-on - a better way to browse
> Internet
>
>
>   Tony,
>
>            First, thanks much for the time and effort you put in to creating
> this add-on.
>
>            Although I can agree that a number of points brought up since the
> initial announcement have some validity, many go well beyond the scope of
> your add-on alone and could be applied to any number of NVDA add-ons and, in
> fact, are really separate philosophical and practical issues of their own.
>
>            You're a better man than I, as I know I would be feeling, "No
> good deed goes unpunished," were I you, and not being nearly so gracious
> about it.
>   --
>
>   Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763
>
>   A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need
> for illusion is deep.
>
>             ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>



Re: thunderbird 60 brakes reading of attachments

enes sarıbaş
 

I did. The devs don't seem very interested in fixing this, as there is a ticket since august 2018.

On 12/3/2018 9:02 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
You would be better off putting this up as an issue on Github. a lot of the devs are very busy looking at the upcoming release and probably not looking here for problems to solve.
I don't use Tbird so cannot comment myself.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "enes sarıbaş" <enes.saribas@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, December 03, 2018 6:33 AM
Subject: [nvda] thunderbird 60 brakes reading of attachments


hi,

Str:

Add an attachment to a message in the compose dialogue box, and shift tab to attachments list.

expected: nvda reads attachment in a list, nd gives options to navigate and delete individual attachments.

actual: nvda anounces attachment list, attach file, alt+m

Could one of the devs please look into this?





Re: What are Guide and Leasey?

JM Casey
 

I've not heard of Guide before, but Leasey is a set of JAWS scripts provided by a third party for users of that screen-reader. They are supposed to automate certain tasks and make things "easier" for the user in some way, but I've never quite been able to figure out exactly how, even looking at the company's website. I suppose, as suggested above, they change the interface the user interacts with certain applications, making them more menu-driven.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kwork
Sent: December 3, 2018 8:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] What are Guide and Leasey?

So as not to hijack another thread where these two programs are mentioned, I thought I'd create a new thread.

In the TextNav thread, David Goldfield mentioned Guide and Leasey. I just wondered what these two programs are. Thanks.

Travis


What are Guide and Leasey?

Kwork
 

So as not to hijack another thread where these two programs are mentioned, I thought I'd create a new thread.

In the TextNav thread, David Goldfield mentioned Guide and Leasey. I just wondered what these two programs are. Thanks.

Travis


Re: NVDA reading incorrect content when focus is on the Main frame of the page

Gene
 

I didn't answer until now because I don't have new versions of browsers or NVDA.  I can't run the new NVDA. 
 
What I will describe may not reflect what you see. If I shift tab to the address bar, and then tab once, I hear a lot of extraneous material and at the end, the word help announced as a link.  I have to either let everything read to finally hear "help" or I have to use the read current line command to interrupt the extraneous material and hear "help" spoken.  This is when using Chrome and an old version of NVDA.  Is part of the problem you are describing that you hear all sorts of extraneous material being read before "help" is spoken?
 
As to your other problem, using Chrome and the old NVDA, I can't reproduce it. 
 
Gene 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, December 03, 2018 5:59 AM
Subject: [nvda] NVDA reading incorrect content when focus is on the Main frame of the page

When we try navigating the below URL
https://sso.rumba.int.pearsoncmg.com/sso/login?profile=realize&k12int=true&service=https%3A%2F%2Fcert-www.realizedev.com%2Fcommunity%2Fj_spring_cas_security_check

Observe the issue that when focus in on MAIN FRAME it reads help and on HELP button it doesn't notify user,
Steps to repro
1) Launch URL
https://sso.rumba.int.pearsoncmg.com/sso/login?profile=realize&k12int=true&service=https%3A%2F%2Fcert-www.realizedev.com%2Fcommunity%2Fj_spring_cas_security_check
2) Press SHIFT+TAB from username
3) Observe tab focus moves to HELP and reader would read help
4) Press SHIFT+TAB again, focus would move to main frame
5) Press Shift+TAb, focus would move to main URL
6) PRESS TAB again, you will see focus moves to main frame and reads HELP,(That's incorrect)
7) Again press tab, focus would move to HELP and will not be notifying user that he is on HELP
Please confirm is this a issue with NVDA, if not how can we fix the same.


Re: Introducing TextNav add-on - a better way to browse Internet

Tyler Wood
 

Agreed 100% with the below messages.


Again, I thank you for making such a great add-on Tony.

On 2018-12-03 6:51 p.m., Steve Nomer wrote:

Thank goodness my delete key is working well! I don't remember ever having seen so much wordage about nothing! It's just been amazing.


Steve


On 12/3/2018 6:47 PM, Dale Leavens wrote:
You just can’t leave it alone can you?

How long must this thread run after it is no longer expanding any understanding or value?

Is it really necessary to make your point over absolutely every post?

I realize all about the delete function and make liberal use of it. 

Cheers!

Dale Leavens

On Dec 3, 2018, at 6:26 PM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

I didn't say it would be generally harmful nor that anyone will stop using other navigation techniques.  I'm only talking about inexperienced users and I'm saying that claiming that this app will do ninety percent of what you want to do on the Internet may dissuade them from learning other things they should know.
 
I strongly disagree that you have to hype and oversell something in order to get people to use it.  I would use it except that I'm waiting for a read to end feature and I know exactly what it does because of your demonstration.  Experienced users know what it does and a lot of them will use it as well, unless they are waiting for something specific like a read to end feature.
When add-ons for Firefox and Chrome came out that are reading add-ons, many blind people were interested.
 
Many people oversell NVDA as well.  It isn't necessary.  Just describing the product or demonstrating it is more than convincing enough.  The same for this app.  If people weren't interested in the past, the cause was something else.  If your audio demonstration called it a reading app and you had demonstrated its use, that would have been just as effective.  And you could make statements such as, a lot of what people do on the Internet is read articles.  This app will save a lot of time and make this much easier and more convenient.  Then, you can demonstrate it, just as you did.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, December 03, 2018 5:04 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Introducing TextNav add-on - a better way to browse Internet

Gene,
I think we have two main points of disagreement: the first being the
description of TextNav, and the second being whether TextNav will be
harmful in the long run since people will stop learning browse mode
commands.
1. Yes, you can call TextNav a reading add-on. I would even agree with
you, it is a reading add-on indeed. The other day Joseph Lee announced
TextNav as better paragraph navigation commands. He is right too.
However nobody would download and try using an add-on, that provides
better paragraph navigation. Nobody would be excited about a reading
add-on. That's why I call it the new way of browsing Internet. I'm
running a marketing campaign, I hope not that dirty. But I'm just
trying to attract some attention. Hopefully to everyone's benefit.
Nobody would have bought the first car in the world if this car was
advertised as a better horse carriage, even though that would've been
an accurate description for 19-th century person. Nobody would have
bought the first computer if it was called a better calculator. I hope
you see my point.
2.I don't have any new arguments here either. I think time will show
whether TextNav will end up being useful or detrimental for NVDA
community. I hope nobody would propose to delete TextNav in fear that
people would forget how to use browse mode commands. And I feel that
if not me, someone else would've eventually come up with this idea
anyway.

Best
Tony


On 12/3/18, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
> I'll say at this point that I probably won't write more in the thread.  I've
> said what I have to say and I'vew explained it more clearly as the thread
> continued and as I saw more clearly what the main issue is and how to
> present it.  Many people have evidently misunderstood what I said, at least
> before reading my last explanatory message.  But pretty much anything more I
> would say would be repetition.
>
> Gene
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Gene via Groups.Io
> Sent: Monday, December 03, 2018 4:34 PM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Introducing TextNav add-on - a better way to browse
> Internet
>
>
> I'm sorry, but I don't know what lists you are referring to.  That is not
> the case here nor on the lists I'm a member of.  And I didn't say anything
> about doing things the hardest way possible as being preferred.  See the
> last message I sent which explains in the best way, what my position is.
>
> Comparing blind and sighted people in the way you are doing is invalid.  for
> one thing, the Internet is designed to be visually intuitive for sighted
> people.  They don't have to learn nearly as much to use it effectively.  and
> in your work place, if the training was inadequate, that is the fault of
> those who prepared and administered the training.  But what does that have
> to do with what we are talking about?
>
> Gene
> ----- Original message -----
>
> From: Andy
> Sent: Monday, December 03, 2018 4:21 PM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Introducing TextNav add-on - a better way to browse
> Internet
>
>
> If this list were composed of sighted persons we wouldn't even be having
> this discussion.  Whenever topics like this come up on a blind list, there
> is always a chorus that keeps singing the virtues of doing things the
> hardest way possible.  I recall in the mid 90s when individual employees at
> our facility were issues PCs and were expected to use them.  many of the
> staff were older and had no experience using a PC.  There were classes, but
> they were designed to be short in duration, and they made many assumptions
> about the level of experience and ability of the persons taking the class.
> It was quite common for people to ask for assistance from coworkers who were
> more experienced.  That assistance was always gladly given, in fact, I gave
> much assistance myself.
> I do not recall anyone telling someone to read a manual, etc.  But on these
> lists people are often called out when they ask for assistance, or a
> developer who wants to address a need is told that their product is either
> unnecessary or even harmful. The range of experience and ability is just as
> wide among the blind as among the sighted.  Why can't we demonstrate the
> same level of understanding and compassion as we did at our facility?  If an
> add on or software program can enable someone to benefit from computing who
> might otherwise be deprived of this benefit, why not support it?  There is
> way too much computer equipment sitting in closets gathering dust because
> people did not receive the support they needed to learn to use it, and were
> often put down when they came on lists, chats, etc. and asked for help. I
> commend Tony for his efforts and wish him success.
>
> Andy
>
> "He who lives on hope will die of starvation".
> Benjamin Franklin
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Brian Vogel
>   To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>   Sent: Monday, December 03, 2018 1:25 PM
>   Subject: Re: [nvda] Introducing TextNav add-on - a better way to browse
> Internet
>
>
>   Tony,
>
>            First, thanks much for the time and effort you put in to creating
> this add-on.
>
>            Although I can agree that a number of points brought up since the
> initial announcement have some validity, many go well beyond the scope of
> your add-on alone and could be applied to any number of NVDA add-ons and, in
> fact, are really separate philosophical and practical issues of their own.
>
>            You're a better man than I, as I know I would be feeling, "No
> good deed goes unpunished," were I you, and not being nearly so gracious
> about it.
>   --
>
>   Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763
>
>   A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need
> for illusion is deep.
>
>             ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>



Re: Introducing TextNav add-on - a better way to browse Internet

Steve Nomer
 

Thank goodness my delete key is working well! I don't remember ever having seen so much wordage about nothing! It's just been amazing.


Steve


On 12/3/2018 6:47 PM, Dale Leavens wrote:
You just can’t leave it alone can you?

How long must this thread run after it is no longer expanding any understanding or value?

Is it really necessary to make your point over absolutely every post?

I realize all about the delete function and make liberal use of it. 

Cheers!

Dale Leavens

On Dec 3, 2018, at 6:26 PM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

I didn't say it would be generally harmful nor that anyone will stop using other navigation techniques.  I'm only talking about inexperienced users and I'm saying that claiming that this app will do ninety percent of what you want to do on the Internet may dissuade them from learning other things they should know.
 
I strongly disagree that you have to hype and oversell something in order to get people to use it.  I would use it except that I'm waiting for a read to end feature and I know exactly what it does because of your demonstration.  Experienced users know what it does and a lot of them will use it as well, unless they are waiting for something specific like a read to end feature.
When add-ons for Firefox and Chrome came out that are reading add-ons, many blind people were interested.
 
Many people oversell NVDA as well.  It isn't necessary.  Just describing the product or demonstrating it is more than convincing enough.  The same for this app.  If people weren't interested in the past, the cause was something else.  If your audio demonstration called it a reading app and you had demonstrated its use, that would have been just as effective.  And you could make statements such as, a lot of what people do on the Internet is read articles.  This app will save a lot of time and make this much easier and more convenient.  Then, you can demonstrate it, just as you did.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, December 03, 2018 5:04 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Introducing TextNav add-on - a better way to browse Internet

Gene,
I think we have two main points of disagreement: the first being the
description of TextNav, and the second being whether TextNav will be
harmful in the long run since people will stop learning browse mode
commands.
1. Yes, you can call TextNav a reading add-on. I would even agree with
you, it is a reading add-on indeed. The other day Joseph Lee announced
TextNav as better paragraph navigation commands. He is right too.
However nobody would download and try using an add-on, that provides
better paragraph navigation. Nobody would be excited about a reading
add-on. That's why I call it the new way of browsing Internet. I'm
running a marketing campaign, I hope not that dirty. But I'm just
trying to attract some attention. Hopefully to everyone's benefit.
Nobody would have bought the first car in the world if this car was
advertised as a better horse carriage, even though that would've been
an accurate description for 19-th century person. Nobody would have
bought the first computer if it was called a better calculator. I hope
you see my point.
2.I don't have any new arguments here either. I think time will show
whether TextNav will end up being useful or detrimental for NVDA
community. I hope nobody would propose to delete TextNav in fear that
people would forget how to use browse mode commands. And I feel that
if not me, someone else would've eventually come up with this idea
anyway.

Best
Tony


On 12/3/18, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
> I'll say at this point that I probably won't write more in the thread.  I've
> said what I have to say and I'vew explained it more clearly as the thread
> continued and as I saw more clearly what the main issue is and how to
> present it.  Many people have evidently misunderstood what I said, at least
> before reading my last explanatory message.  But pretty much anything more I
> would say would be repetition.
>
> Gene
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Gene via Groups.Io
> Sent: Monday, December 03, 2018 4:34 PM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Introducing TextNav add-on - a better way to browse
> Internet
>
>
> I'm sorry, but I don't know what lists you are referring to.  That is not
> the case here nor on the lists I'm a member of.  And I didn't say anything
> about doing things the hardest way possible as being preferred.  See the
> last message I sent which explains in the best way, what my position is.
>
> Comparing blind and sighted people in the way you are doing is invalid.  for
> one thing, the Internet is designed to be visually intuitive for sighted
> people.  They don't have to learn nearly as much to use it effectively.  and
> in your work place, if the training was inadequate, that is the fault of
> those who prepared and administered the training.  But what does that have
> to do with what we are talking about?
>
> Gene
> ----- Original message -----
>
> From: Andy
> Sent: Monday, December 03, 2018 4:21 PM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Introducing TextNav add-on - a better way to browse
> Internet
>
>
> If this list were composed of sighted persons we wouldn't even be having
> this discussion.  Whenever topics like this come up on a blind list, there
> is always a chorus that keeps singing the virtues of doing things the
> hardest way possible.  I recall in the mid 90s when individual employees at
> our facility were issues PCs and were expected to use them.  many of the
> staff were older and had no experience using a PC.  There were classes, but
> they were designed to be short in duration, and they made many assumptions
> about the level of experience and ability of the persons taking the class.
> It was quite common for people to ask for assistance from coworkers who were
> more experienced.  That assistance was always gladly given, in fact, I gave
> much assistance myself.
> I do not recall anyone telling someone to read a manual, etc.  But on these
> lists people are often called out when they ask for assistance, or a
> developer who wants to address a need is told that their product is either
> unnecessary or even harmful. The range of experience and ability is just as
> wide among the blind as among the sighted.  Why can't we demonstrate the
> same level of understanding and compassion as we did at our facility?  If an
> add on or software program can enable someone to benefit from computing who
> might otherwise be deprived of this benefit, why not support it?  There is
> way too much computer equipment sitting in closets gathering dust because
> people did not receive the support they needed to learn to use it, and were
> often put down when they came on lists, chats, etc. and asked for help. I
> commend Tony for his efforts and wish him success.
>
> Andy
>
> "He who lives on hope will die of starvation".
> Benjamin Franklin
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Brian Vogel
>   To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>   Sent: Monday, December 03, 2018 1:25 PM
>   Subject: Re: [nvda] Introducing TextNav add-on - a better way to browse
> Internet
>
>
>   Tony,
>
>            First, thanks much for the time and effort you put in to creating
> this add-on.
>
>            Although I can agree that a number of points brought up since the
> initial announcement have some validity, many go well beyond the scope of
> your add-on alone and could be applied to any number of NVDA add-ons and, in
> fact, are really separate philosophical and practical issues of their own.
>
>            You're a better man than I, as I know I would be feeling, "No
> good deed goes unpunished," were I you, and not being nearly so gracious
> about it.
>   --
>
>   Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763
>
>   A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need
> for illusion is deep.
>
>             ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>



Re: Introducing TextNav add-on - a better way to browse Internet

Dale Leavens
 

You just can’t leave it alone can you?

How long must this thread run after it is no longer expanding any understanding or value?

Is it really necessary to make your point over absolutely every post?

I realize all about the delete function and make liberal use of it. 

Cheers!

Dale Leavens

On Dec 3, 2018, at 6:26 PM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

I didn't say it would be generally harmful nor that anyone will stop using other navigation techniques.  I'm only talking about inexperienced users and I'm saying that claiming that this app will do ninety percent of what you want to do on the Internet may dissuade them from learning other things they should know.
 
I strongly disagree that you have to hype and oversell something in order to get people to use it.  I would use it except that I'm waiting for a read to end feature and I know exactly what it does because of your demonstration.  Experienced users know what it does and a lot of them will use it as well, unless they are waiting for something specific like a read to end feature.
When add-ons for Firefox and Chrome came out that are reading add-ons, many blind people were interested.
 
Many people oversell NVDA as well.  It isn't necessary.  Just describing the product or demonstrating it is more than convincing enough.  The same for this app.  If people weren't interested in the past, the cause was something else.  If your audio demonstration called it a reading app and you had demonstrated its use, that would have been just as effective.  And you could make statements such as, a lot of what people do on the Internet is read articles.  This app will save a lot of time and make this much easier and more convenient.  Then, you can demonstrate it, just as you did.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, December 03, 2018 5:04 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Introducing TextNav add-on - a better way to browse Internet

Gene,
I think we have two main points of disagreement: the first being the
description of TextNav, and the second being whether TextNav will be
harmful in the long run since people will stop learning browse mode
commands.
1. Yes, you can call TextNav a reading add-on. I would even agree with
you, it is a reading add-on indeed. The other day Joseph Lee announced
TextNav as better paragraph navigation commands. He is right too.
However nobody would download and try using an add-on, that provides
better paragraph navigation. Nobody would be excited about a reading
add-on. That's why I call it the new way of browsing Internet. I'm
running a marketing campaign, I hope not that dirty. But I'm just
trying to attract some attention. Hopefully to everyone's benefit.
Nobody would have bought the first car in the world if this car was
advertised as a better horse carriage, even though that would've been
an accurate description for 19-th century person. Nobody would have
bought the first computer if it was called a better calculator. I hope
you see my point.
2.I don't have any new arguments here either. I think time will show
whether TextNav will end up being useful or detrimental for NVDA
community. I hope nobody would propose to delete TextNav in fear that
people would forget how to use browse mode commands. And I feel that
if not me, someone else would've eventually come up with this idea
anyway.

Best
Tony


On 12/3/18, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
> I'll say at this point that I probably won't write more in the thread.  I've
> said what I have to say and I'vew explained it more clearly as the thread
> continued and as I saw more clearly what the main issue is and how to
> present it.  Many people have evidently misunderstood what I said, at least
> before reading my last explanatory message.  But pretty much anything more I
> would say would be repetition.
>
> Gene
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Gene via Groups.Io
> Sent: Monday, December 03, 2018 4:34 PM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Introducing TextNav add-on - a better way to browse
> Internet
>
>
> I'm sorry, but I don't know what lists you are referring to.  That is not
> the case here nor on the lists I'm a member of.  And I didn't say anything
> about doing things the hardest way possible as being preferred.  See the
> last message I sent which explains in the best way, what my position is.
>
> Comparing blind and sighted people in the way you are doing is invalid.  for
> one thing, the Internet is designed to be visually intuitive for sighted
> people.  They don't have to learn nearly as much to use it effectively.  and
> in your work place, if the training was inadequate, that is the fault of
> those who prepared and administered the training.  But what does that have
> to do with what we are talking about?
>
> Gene
> ----- Original message -----
>
> From: Andy
> Sent: Monday, December 03, 2018 4:21 PM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Introducing TextNav add-on - a better way to browse
> Internet
>
>
> If this list were composed of sighted persons we wouldn't even be having
> this discussion.  Whenever topics like this come up on a blind list, there
> is always a chorus that keeps singing the virtues of doing things the
> hardest way possible.  I recall in the mid 90s when individual employees at
> our facility were issues PCs and were expected to use them.  many of the
> staff were older and had no experience using a PC.  There were classes, but
> they were designed to be short in duration, and they made many assumptions
> about the level of experience and ability of the persons taking the class.
> It was quite common for people to ask for assistance from coworkers who were
> more experienced.  That assistance was always gladly given, in fact, I gave
> much assistance myself.
> I do not recall anyone telling someone to read a manual, etc.  But on these
> lists people are often called out when they ask for assistance, or a
> developer who wants to address a need is told that their product is either
> unnecessary or even harmful. The range of experience and ability is just as
> wide among the blind as among the sighted.  Why can't we demonstrate the
> same level of understanding and compassion as we did at our facility?  If an
> add on or software program can enable someone to benefit from computing who
> might otherwise be deprived of this benefit, why not support it?  There is
> way too much computer equipment sitting in closets gathering dust because
> people did not receive the support they needed to learn to use it, and were
> often put down when they came on lists, chats, etc. and asked for help. I
> commend Tony for his efforts and wish him success.
>
> Andy
>
> "He who lives on hope will die of starvation".
> Benjamin Franklin
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Brian Vogel
>   To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>   Sent: Monday, December 03, 2018 1:25 PM
>   Subject: Re: [nvda] Introducing TextNav add-on - a better way to browse
> Internet
>
>
>   Tony,
>
>            First, thanks much for the time and effort you put in to creating
> this add-on.
>
>            Although I can agree that a number of points brought up since the
> initial announcement have some validity, many go well beyond the scope of
> your add-on alone and could be applied to any number of NVDA add-ons and, in
> fact, are really separate philosophical and practical issues of their own.
>
>            You're a better man than I, as I know I would be feeling, "No
> good deed goes unpunished," were I you, and not being nearly so gracious
> about it.
>   --
>
>   Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763
>
>   A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need
> for illusion is deep.
>
>             ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>



Re: Introducing TextNav add-on - a better way to browse Internet

David Goldfield
 

Regarding some of what I consider to be negative and silly feedback regarding the Textnav addon I have the following comments.

We have all heard of programs which allow the user to tweek or modify settings within the operating system which aren't readily available through standard options such as the control panel. If I decided to install and use such a program would a power user say that I could use the registry to perform the same functions and that using a Windows tweeker isn't good because I'm avoiding using the registry? Of course not. Should I not use the start menu or the desktop to open a program because I'm not learning how to enter the program's full path into the run dialog box? I see nothing wrong with an app or an add-on which just wants to add a few shortcuts to make the lives of users easier. I also seriously doubt that most users will wind up using Textnav and not learning about how to navigate Web pages using other built-in shortcuts. Technically, these quick navigation commands are shortcuts also, designed to quickly navigate to content on a Web page. I'm also fine with people who wish to use programs such as Guide or, in the case of JAWS, Leasey. These programs provide a systematic, structured approach to access apps and functions which is totally menu-driven. Does that mean that some of those users might not learn all of the nuances of the start menu or other applications? Possibly. And does that really matter? For the most part, I would say that it doesn't. As someone who has been providing training and support for over 25 years you do want to teach users the commands which will be most intuitive which will enable them to perform the tasks they need to perform. For some users, if Guide is the answer for them then so be it. If a user wants to use specialized or mainstream add-ons which might make reading easier then let them. If you think about it most of us do the same thing, with some task that we perform on the computer. I personally don't interact much with the tiled interface of the Windows 10 start menu. I access most of the applications that I need from the menu we normally see when we first open the start menu. That's my way of doing things. Are there certain commands or methods of doing things that I might not know about or be as familiar with with the modern tiles? Perhaps. Does it matter? Honestly, do most of you really care about that? Probably not. Of course, if I were providing training on the start menu I would want to show the users that portion of the menu and how to navigate it, how to pin and unpin items to it, etc. I would engage in a lot of preparation to ensure that I have that knowledge to share with a student. But many students will just as soon not deal with that section of the start menu and will just interact with the menu itself. Many users will just want to enter the first few letters of the program they are looking for in the start menu search edit box. Ultimately, if that works well for them and if they can do what they need to do quickly and efficiently then I'm happy and so is the student. As a trainer I should know how to perform all of these tasks but, as a user, I can perform my tasks any way I like. As a user, not as a trainer, I have the right to use any shortcut or alternate method that I wish to use, as long as it's efficient for me. I commend the developer of this app for writing an add-on which could make many people's lives just a little bit easier. If someone feels that it doesn't fit in with their workflow then nobody is forcing you to use it.


David Goldfield, Assistive Technology Specialist WWW.David-Goldfield.Com

On 12/3/2018 6:31 PM, hurrikennyandopo ... wrote:

Hi


I am also running windows 10 version 1809 with the latest google chrome browser and nvda 2018.4 beta 2 and am having no problems with it works like it should.


Gene nz


On 4/12/2018 11:12 AM, Don H wrote:
After installing this addon on my Win 10 1809 system and using Google Chrome I enter into a state where NVDA starts reading everything on the page and nothing will stop it.  I can not even use alt f4 to close the web site.




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Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.