Date   

Re: Mouse Navigation with NVDA - Do you use it? Do you like it?

 

Rosemarie,

          Believe me, I know that using the mouse without being able to see it is hard.  It is, however, within screen readers that support it a very easy way to give a quick listen to what's on the screen that you might never see if you're doing things like listing all links and traversing the list or all headers and traversing that list, etc.  I've also found it interesting that on most sites there are hidden links specifically for those using accessibility software that the rest of the world never sees.

           I'm not so much interested (though I am interested, don't get me wrong) in whether someone uses the mouse as a pointing and activating device so much as whether they use it to get a sense of what might be on a screen just by running it around.

           It's also nice that at least some laptops allow you to configure the mouse such that it will not go outside the physical screen boundary.  That's under the "Momentum" settings for my Synaptics touch pad under "Enable bounce off screen edge".  While that would drive me crazy, as I often want the mouse to disappear, it would be incredibly useful for someone doing screen review via mouse movement.  This may be possible with certain mice on desktop machines, too, but I've never had one with that configuration option in that hardware environment.

           It was also interesting for me to see what I consider the weird difference in accessibility in PDF-XChange Viewer when using the conventional menu keyboard shortcuts and arrow key traversal, which gives you no feedback at all, but when you hover over the same menus with the mouse and draw the mouse pointer down the menu, each and every thing, including the menu title, is announced (this is all with NVDA 2016.1).  Why that would be is a mystery, since if there were nothing that NVDA could access somehow for announcing things then there should be no accessibility feedback in either method.

Brian


Re: Mouse Navigation with NVDA - Do you use it? Do you like it?

Patrick Le Baudour
 

Hi,

I only use it when I have to, with some websites and programs accessible only with the mouse.
I find it difficult not to be lost and finding a specific item on a big screen, ( I assume it's much easier on a smartphone where you know where you are and usually have a tidier screen content).

-- Patrick

Le 09/03/2016 16:15, Brian Vogel a écrit :
The subject pretty much says it all. One of the most interesting
features of NVDA from this sighted guy's perspective is mouse tracking,
which announces what's under the mouse pointer, used in conjunction with
the NVDA left and right click keystrokes (or the actual left and right
click buttons on a mouse or mousepad).

By moving the mouse around the screen you get an experience that strikes
me as far more like what someone who can see gets when they're scanning
a webpage quickly to see if there's anything that interests them. Of
course, it takes some getting used to, and you'll probably have to do
some adjustments on mouse behavior (speed and distance of movement,
coasting, and others) to get mouse movement that's comfortable for you.

I'm just curious as to who may be using this method to cruise around the
screen, and for any program, not just web browsers, and what your
experience was like learning how to use this feature and these methods.
I realize that there are certain applications and contexts where this
would be way more trouble than it's worth, too, and opinions on where
it's worth using and not would be interesting.

My gut tells me that it will be a small cadre that uses this feature
set, but I'm trying to decide whether it's something worth trying to
teach up front or not. There's nothing like asking those who do use it,
or have tried to use it, as a functional navigation alternative to help
shape my thoughts on this.

Brian


Re: Mouse Navigation with NVDA - Do you use it? Do you like it?

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

Hi, Brian,

I tried using the physical mouse but it was kind of hard. I know how to do mouse equivilents like clicking using the keyboard. That's easier for me than trying to use a mouse.

Rosemarie

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel [mailto:britechguy@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2016 7:16 AM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Mouse Navigation with NVDA - Do you use it? Do you like it?

The subject pretty much says it all. One of the most interesting features of NVDA from this sighted guy's perspective is mouse tracking, which announces what's under the mouse pointer, used in conjunction with the NVDA left and right click keystrokes (or the actual left and right click buttons on a mouse or mousepad).

By moving the mouse around the screen you get an experience that strikes me as far more like what someone who can see gets when they're scanning a webpage quickly to see if there's anything that interests them. Of course, it takes some getting used to, and you'll probably have to do some adjustments on mouse behavior (speed and distance of movement, coasting, and others) to get mouse movement that's comfortable for you.

I'm just curious as to who may be using this method to cruise around the screen, and for any program, not just web browsers, and what your experience was like learning how to use this feature and these methods. I realize that there are certain applications and contexts where this would be way more trouble than it's worth, too, and opinions on where it's worth using and not would be interesting.

My gut tells me that it will be a small cadre that uses this feature set, but I'm trying to decide whether it's something worth trying to teach up front or not. There's nothing like asking those who do use it, or have tried to use it, as a functional navigation alternative to help shape my thoughts on this.

Brian


Re: Firefox is driving me crazy!

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 


I've recently noticed firefox occasionally starting with no padge, even if its set to have one
Its address  fiield is blank and it just sits there waiting. This also occurs if you update nvda, ie its the default browser for an update of a portable version.
 
It usually works the second time but of course you need to regenerate the new update for nvda to try it.
 
It seemed to start about mid way in the life of ff44, and has been there ever since. it does work sometimes. To me this is also alied to the occasional page not found or not available  with 5 or4 hundred codes
I was wondering if the newer ublock might be part of the issue, but have not figured out how to test this.
 Brian

bglists@... 
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2016 4:14 PM
Subject: [nvda] Re: Firefox is driving me crazy!

Ollie,

           This is a pure SWAG on my part, but I've encountered so many bizarre problems caused by cache corruption that the first thing I'd recommend is that you clear all browser cache in Firefox.  If you use CCleaner it will work (and a bit faster) or you can follow the instructions on the Firefox Clear Cache page.

           Try that and see if it resolves the problem.  If it doesn't at least we can eliminate cache corruption as the root cause.

Brian


Re: Mouse Navigation with NVDA - Do you use it? Do you like it?

Aravind R
 

one add on called golden cursor helps us to navigate mouse using
keyboard by typing pixal positions.
but, we have to experiment the various pixal coordinate positions and learn

On 3/9/16, Mallard <mallard@kimabe.eu> wrote:
Hello Brian,

I use a mouse from time to time. I have been using an Optacon since 1977
(I still use it daily, especially for multilanguage book reading), so
using a physical mouse isn't all that complicated for me.
Being used to exploring physical, printed pages, certainly represents a
significant advantage in mouse use.

My main difficulty is dealing with the boundaries of the mouse pad...

Ciao,
Ollie




Il 09/03/2016 16:15, Brian Vogel ha scritto:

The subject pretty much says it all. One of the most interesting
features of NVDA from this sighted guy's perspective is mouse
tracking, which announces what's under the mouse pointer, used in
conjunction with the NVDA left and right click keystrokes (or the
actual left and right click buttons on a mouse or mousepad).

By moving the mouse around the screen you get an experience that
strikes me as far more like what someone who can see gets when they're
scanning a webpage quickly to see if there's anything that interests
them. Of course, it takes some getting used to, and you'll probably
have to do some adjustments on mouse behavior (speed and distance of
movement, coasting, and others) to get mouse movement that's
comfortable for you.

I'm just curious as to who may be using this method to cruise around
the screen, and for any program, not just web browsers, and what your
experience was like learning how to use this feature and these
methods. I realize that there are certain applications and contexts
where this would be way more trouble than it's worth, too, and
opinions on where it's worth using and not would be interesting.

My gut tells me that it will be a small cadre that uses this feature
set, but I'm trying to decide whether it's something worth trying to
teach up front or not. There's nothing like asking those who do use
it, or have tried to use it, as a functional navigation alternative to
help shape my thoughts on this.

Brian




--
nothing is difficult unless you make it appear so.

r. aravind,

Assistant manager
Department of sales
bank of baroda retail loan factory, Chennai.
mobile no: +91 9940369593, 9710945613.
email id : aravind_069@yahoo.com, aravind.andhrabank@gmail.com.


Re: Firefox is driving me crazy!

Patrick Le Baudour
 

Hello,

One thing to be careful of is to make sure nvda only has a link in focus - I usually use k and shift-k to do that. When there is, for example, a bullet then a link, then it may open something altogether. I've been had by that several times those last weeks.

-- Patrick

Le 09/03/2016 17:01, Mallard a écrit :
Hello list,
For a week or so now, Firefox is driving me crazy.

When I click on a link on a webpage, for some reason I end up clicking
on something different from the one I had under my fingers on my braille
display or that is read by the synth.

Today I even upgraded to Firefox 45.0 to see whether the problem could
be solved, but no... Still the same.

I'm using the latest Next snapshot of NVDA, but the same thing happens
with an older version of NVDA (2015.2), so I think it might be something
in Firefox.

Has anyone experienced someghing similar?

Ciao,
Ollie



Re: Firefox is driving me crazy!

 

Ollie,

           This is a pure SWAG on my part, but I've encountered so many bizarre problems caused by cache corruption that the first thing I'd recommend is that you clear all browser cache in Firefox.  If you use CCleaner it will work (and a bit faster) or you can follow the instructions on the Firefox Clear Cache page.

           Try that and see if it resolves the problem.  If it doesn't at least we can eliminate cache corruption as the root cause.

Brian


Re: OCRing pdfs using NVDA?

 

On Wed, Mar 9, 2016 at 07:44 am, Mallard <mallard@...> wrote:
It simply didn't occur my mind to try and press NVDA+F2 before the key combination...

But, Ollie, what I'm wondering is why you would even need to do that?  I don't, so we've either got different versions of NVDA (I'm on 2016.1) that behave differently or you're using add-ons that I'm not that are having an impact, etc.   It's just a curiosity to me regarding what's actually capturing CTRL+SHIFT+C on your end ahead of PDF-XChange Viewer.  It doesn't seem to be NVDA 2016.1 with the Eloquence Synthesizer and NoBeepsSpeechMode add-ons active on my end.

These little mysteries are like fun puzzles (at least sometimes they are).

Brian


Firefox is driving me crazy!

Mallard
 

Hello list,
For a week or so now, Firefox is driving me crazy.

When I click on a link on a webpage, for some reason I end up clicking on something different from the one I had under my fingers on my braille display or that is read by the synth.

Today I even upgraded to Firefox 45.0 to see whether the problem could be solved, but no... Still the same.

I'm using the latest Next snapshot of NVDA, but the same thing happens with an older version of NVDA (2015.2), so I think it might be something in Firefox.

Has anyone experienced someghing similar?

Ciao,
Ollie


Re: OCRing pdfs using NVDA?

Mallard
 

Brian,

The issue with Ctrl+Shift+C was simply my fault, as I mentioned previously. It simply didn't occur my mind to try and press NVDA+F2 before the key combination...
Now it works fine here too.

The document I processed took several hours indeed, but I went off cooking and things, so I didn't mind...

I'm going to study teh programme a bit more in depth, to see if there are workarounds to help others make good use of it, at least as much as possible.

If the devs are willing to install NVDA (given that it's free), we might be able to make them understand what is not working in menu viewing...
But I'm probably just too optimistic - I'm spoilt by so many great devs on the Android eyes-free list... (smile).

Ciao,
Ollie

Il 09/03/2016 15:30, Brian Vogel ha scritto:

Ollie,

Glad it worked for you and you're happy with the result. I'm sure a document of that size took several hours to process. I think the largest I've ever done is a bit over 400 pages, and most are significantly smaller than that. When you get into large PDF files, even OCR-ed ones, you pretty much have to be able to word search them to make finding that "needle in a haystack" a reasonable task.

I still can't explain why CTRL+SHIFT+C is not working for you without using pass-through as it works just fine for me when I'm using NVDA 2016.1 and PDF-XChange Viewer together to do an OCR that way.

I have suggested that others contact Tracker regarding accessibility issues. While I can and do use screen readers as part of testing things out, and can say what works or doesn't work for "routine stuff," there's nothing like a skilled screen reader user who has to do "the deep stuff" to uncover, and even to explain, accessibility issues I will never encounter.

Brian


Re: Mouse Navigation with NVDA - Do you use it? Do you like it?

Mallard
 

Hello Brian,

I use a mouse from time to time. I have been using an Optacon since 1977 (I still use it daily, especially for multilanguage book reading), so using a physical mouse isn't all that complicated for me.
Being used to exploring physical, printed pages, certainly represents a significant advantage in mouse use.

My main difficulty is dealing with the boundaries of the mouse pad...

Ciao,
Ollie

Il 09/03/2016 16:15, Brian Vogel ha scritto:

The subject pretty much says it all. One of the most interesting features of NVDA from this sighted guy's perspective is mouse tracking, which announces what's under the mouse pointer, used in conjunction with the NVDA left and right click keystrokes (or the actual left and right click buttons on a mouse or mousepad).

By moving the mouse around the screen you get an experience that strikes me as far more like what someone who can see gets when they're scanning a webpage quickly to see if there's anything that interests them. Of course, it takes some getting used to, and you'll probably have to do some adjustments on mouse behavior (speed and distance of movement, coasting, and others) to get mouse movement that's comfortable for you.

I'm just curious as to who may be using this method to cruise around the screen, and for any program, not just web browsers, and what your experience was like learning how to use this feature and these methods. I realize that there are certain applications and contexts where this would be way more trouble than it's worth, too, and opinions on where it's worth using and not would be interesting.

My gut tells me that it will be a small cadre that uses this feature set, but I'm trying to decide whether it's something worth trying to teach up front or not. There's nothing like asking those who do use it, or have tried to use it, as a functional navigation alternative to help shape my thoughts on this.

Brian


Re: Espeak is not workin still workin in NVDA version next

 

Hi,
Yes, this confirms a hypothesis set forth by some: settings issue. Please send your nvda.ini file (from your user configuration directory) to me at joseph.lee22590@gmail.com and I'll send you the corrected version.
Cheers,Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: Ângelo Abrantes [mailto:ampa4374@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 9, 2016 7:12 AM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Espeak is not workin still workin in NVDA version next

He,
I don't nnow what's happening with portuguese "next" NVDA versions and espeak.
Here you have the nvda.log extract, where the error apears.
"Speaking [LangChangeCommand (u'pt_PT'), u'eSpeak NG'] IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (15:01:24):
Input: kb(desktop):enter
INFO - synthDrivers.espeak.SynthDriver.__init__ (15:01:24):
Using eSpeak version 1.48.15 16.Apr.15
WARNING - synthDriverHandler.SynthDriver.loadSettings (15:01:24):
Invalid voice: pt-pt
ERROR - synthDriverHandler.setSynth (15:01:24):
setSynth
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "synthDriverHandler.pyc", line 88, in setSynth
File "synthDriverHandler.pyc", line 499, in loadSettings
File "synthDriverHandler.pyc", line 29, in changeVoice
File "synthDrivers\espeak.pyc", line 219, in _set_voice
File "synthDriverHandler.pyc", line 366, in _get_language
KeyError: u'pt-pt'
WARNING - stdout (15:01:24):
OrderedDict([('262144', <synthDriverHandler.VoiceInfo object at
0x05930AF0>), ('65537', <synthDriverHandler.VoiceInfo object at
0x05930B50>), ('65536', <synthDriverHandler.VoiceInfo object at
0x05930BB0>), ('131073', <synthDriverHandler.VoiceInfo object at
0x05930C10>), ('131072', <synthDriverHandler.VoiceInfo object at
0x05930C70>), ('589824', <synthDriverHandler.VoiceInfo object at
0x05930CD0>), ('196608', <synthDriverHandler.VoiceInfo object at
0x05930D30>), ('196609', <synthDriverHandler.VoiceInfo object at".
Thanks
Ângelo Abrantes


Mouse Navigation with NVDA - Do you use it? Do you like it?

 

The subject pretty much says it all.  One of the most interesting features of NVDA from this sighted guy's perspective is mouse tracking, which announces what's under the mouse pointer, used in conjunction with the NVDA left and right click keystrokes (or the actual left and right click buttons on a mouse or mousepad).

By moving the mouse around the screen you get an experience that strikes me as far more like what someone who can see gets when they're scanning a webpage quickly to see if there's anything that interests them.  Of course, it takes some getting used to, and you'll probably have to do some adjustments on mouse behavior (speed and distance of movement, coasting, and others) to get mouse movement that's comfortable for you.

I'm just curious as to who may be using this method to cruise around the screen, and for any program, not just web browsers, and what your experience was like learning how to use this feature and these methods.  I realize that there are certain applications and contexts where this would be way more trouble than it's worth, too, and opinions on where it's worth using and not would be interesting.

My gut tells me that it will be a small cadre that uses this feature set, but I'm trying to decide whether it's something worth trying to teach up front or not.  There's nothing like asking those who do use it, or have tried to use it, as a functional navigation alternative to help shape my thoughts on this.

Brian


Espeak is not workin still workin in NVDA version next

Ângelo Abrantes
 

He,
I don't nnow what's happening with portuguese "next" NVDA versions and espeak.
Here you have the nvda.log extract, where the error apears.
"Speaking [LangChangeCommand (u'pt_PT'), u'eSpeak NG']
IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (15:01:24):
Input: kb(desktop):enter
INFO - synthDrivers.espeak.SynthDriver.__init__ (15:01:24):
Using eSpeak version 1.48.15 16.Apr.15
WARNING - synthDriverHandler.SynthDriver.loadSettings (15:01:24):
Invalid voice: pt-pt
ERROR - synthDriverHandler.setSynth (15:01:24):
setSynth
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "synthDriverHandler.pyc", line 88, in setSynth
File "synthDriverHandler.pyc", line 499, in loadSettings
File "synthDriverHandler.pyc", line 29, in changeVoice
File "synthDrivers\espeak.pyc", line 219, in _set_voice
File "synthDriverHandler.pyc", line 366, in _get_language
KeyError: u'pt-pt'
WARNING - stdout (15:01:24):
OrderedDict([('262144', <synthDriverHandler.VoiceInfo object at 0x05930AF0>), ('65537', <synthDriverHandler.VoiceInfo object at 0x05930B50>), ('65536', <synthDriverHandler.VoiceInfo object at 0x05930BB0>), ('131073', <synthDriverHandler.VoiceInfo object at 0x05930C10>), ('131072', <synthDriverHandler.VoiceInfo object at 0x05930C70>), ('589824', <synthDriverHandler.VoiceInfo object at 0x05930CD0>), ('196608', <synthDriverHandler.VoiceInfo object at 0x05930D30>), ('196609', <synthDriverHandler.VoiceInfo object at".
Thanks
Ângelo Abrantes


Re: OCRing pdfs using NVDA?

 

Ollie,

          Glad it worked for you and you're happy with the result.  I'm sure a document of that size took several hours to process.  I think the largest I've ever done is a bit over 400 pages, and most are significantly smaller than that.  When you get into large PDF files, even OCR-ed ones, you pretty much have to be able to word search them to make finding that "needle in a haystack" a reasonable task.

          I still can't explain why CTRL+SHIFT+C is not working for you without using pass-through as it works just fine for me when I'm using NVDA 2016.1 and PDF-XChange Viewer together to do an OCR that way.

          I have suggested that others contact Tracker regarding accessibility issues.  While I can and do use screen readers as part of testing things out, and can say what works or doesn't work for "routine stuff," there's nothing like a skilled screen reader user who has to do "the deep stuff" to uncover, and even to explain, accessibility issues I will never encounter.

Brian


Strange appearance of some virtual screen for save as

Cearbhall O'Meadhra
 

I wonder if anyone can tell me what is happening here!

 

I have scanned a document into an image PDF using Abbyyy finereader. The scan completes and I am presented with the completed PDF file on screen. Immediately after I open “SAVE AS” in Adobe a strange virtual screen appears. The screen is inaccessible and prevents me from accessing any key commands. I discovered that I could remove the screen by pressing the left mouse key on the number pad. This cleared the virtual screen away and revealed the normal “Save AS” dialog form.

 

Here is a screen capture of the virtual screen: (the start and finish lines are my own for clarity)

 

;Start ------------------------

AVAiCDialogView

Finish ------------------

 

What is happening?

 

All the best,

 

Cearbhall

 

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...

 

 

 


Re: just made an mp3 file of the tutorial

Lenron
 

I would like it.

On 3/7/16, Rosemarie Chavarria <knitqueen2007@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi, Joseph and all,

I was able to convert Brandon's tutorial about gmail to an mp3 file. If
anybody wants it, please let me know and I'll put it on sendspace.

Rosemarie



--
Lenron Brown
Cell: 985-271-2832
Skype: ron.brown762


Re: Thunderbird saying unknown

Chris Mullins
 

Using the layout submenu in the View menu, I have set Tbird to display only the folder list and the currently selected  folder displaying the list of messages, which is about as bare bones as it gets.  Pressing enter on a message opens the body, esc to return to the list.  In the Layout sub-menu I only have the Vertical view, and folder list items checked.  The tab key just loops arount between the tab control of the currently selected folder, the selected folder in the folder treeview and the currently select message in the list window.  The listed messages details are accessed using the table navigation keys Control Alt Arrows.  It’s a while since I set it up, there may be other settings I made to get it to this state, which I did to make it easy for a friend of mine to use.  NVDA  usually says unknown when it encounters a control or unlabelled icon it can’t interpret.  I get this after pressing enter on a message in the list, when the message body opens but I’ve not experienced any difficulties using it.

 

For completeness, Control n to compose a new message, Control enter to send it. 

 

Cheers

 

Chris  

 

From: Brandon Keith Biggs [mailto:brandonkeithbiggs@...]
Sent: 09 March 2016 00:54
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Thunderbird saying unknown

 

Hello,

I am teaching a student to use Thunderbird with NVDA and when they are reading a message, NVDA will say "unknown" if they hit tab out of the body. It will also say unknown if they hit tab out of the list view of the messages.

This on Windows 8 with the latest version of Thunderbird and the latest version of NVDA.

Thunderbird is really easy to use, but is there an email client that is just bairbones emails and folders?

Thank you,


Re: OCRing pdfs using NVDA?

Mallard
 

Brian,

You turned on the light in my sleepy brain... lol

Of course, I'd have thought about it... I have to pass the command through to the application...

In any case, my son clicked on the right icon with the mouse, and the programme performed a practically perfect ocr of a huge file - over 700 pages.

I didn't mean to try with such an enormous file, but it was the only one I had at hand that didn't have text in it, and I must say I'm impressed.

I normally use Finereader 12 to recognise image-only files, but that isn't free. This programme is free, and it's a great assett.
I'm sure we could write to the devs to see if something can be done about readability of the menus. Because if I use a mouse, the various options are read out by NVDA, so I think something could be done.

Or perhaps someone could develop an add-on?

I have no knowledge of coding, so I can't tell whether it's feasible or not, but it would be interesting to find out.

Meanwhile, thanks for pointing us to this tool.
Ciao,
Ollie


Re: libreoffice 5.1 latest version and nvda

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

NVDA was on when I installed it. I had to hit alt tab to get to the choices like writer or kelp.

-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin Cussick via Groups.io [mailto:the.big.white.shepherd=googlemail.com@groups.io]
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2016 1:32 PM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] libreoffice 5.1 latest version and nvda

Your correct maybe she didn't install with screen reader running if this has been the case it will not switch all the accessibility stuff on and nothing much will read.

On 08/03/2016 17:30, Governor staten wrote:
I'm wondering what the issue is. I installed it and it works. It sees
you have an accessibility tool running and it works. Should be all
there is to it. Someone please correct me if I'm srong.




On 3/8/2016 12:12 PM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:
I couldn't get it to work.



On 3/8/2016 8:40 AM, Josh Kennedy wrote:
hi
i installed libreoffice 5.1 went into options and checked and
unchecked and rechecked the accesibility checkbox. i am happy to
report libreoffice 5.1 and later work great with NVDA I can even get
font info with capslock f. nearly everything seems to be accessible.
spell check is also accessible. if you want a free office suite
working well with NVDA I recommend libreoffice. libreoffice calc
also work very well.