Date   

Re: Permanently disabling watchdog via config

Gene
 

The NVDA module would be what is evidently being referred to then. 
 
But to clarify, I didn't say the other Watchdog is malware.  it's an antimalware program so people may want to learn about it even if it doesn't apply to this thread.
 
My comments on Watchdog are as a member, not a moderator and there is no reason to respond differently to them than to anyone else's.  No concern about my role as a moderator in disagreeing need apply nor be felt.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Joseph Lee
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2018 11:34 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Permanently disabling watchdog via config

Hi all,

I think this is one of those times where I may need to override a forum leader in my capacity as a code contributor (sorry):

The watchdog is indeed not a malware. NVDA’s watchdog is used to keep an eye on how NVDA itself is doing and react to NVDA crashing such as writing a minidump and restarting NVDA if necessary. If watchdog is gone, NVDA won’t be able to respond to its own crashes and such, thus disabling it is not generally recommended.

Thus please disregard the research done on it so far, as they have nothing to do with actual purpose of NVDA’s watchdog module.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Wednesday, December 5, 2018 9:21 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Permanently disabling watchdog via config

 

From the name, this is most likely an antimalware program.  A Goodle search for Watchdog antimalware, shows this as the first result with an explanation of the program:

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Tyler Wood

Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2018 11:03 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Permanently disabling watchdog via config

 

Hi,

Please explain what you are talking about by 'watchdog'?

A quick google search of windows 10 watchdog nets how to fix errors
related to it, not how to disable it or even what it does.


Further googling it appears that this is an ssd driver?


On 2018-12-05 3:19 a.m., Felix G. wrote:
> Hello,
> I'm currently testing some driver scenarios with watchdog disabled,
> and by coincidence discovered that some of my longstanding NVDA issues
> are not present, or behave differently, when the watchdog is not on
> duty. Is there a quick'n'easy way to have the watchdog never start?
> All the best,
> Felix
>
>
>


2018-4 beta 3

Don H
 

Running the latest beta on a win 10 1809 system. If I go to youtube move to the edit box and hit enter to enable me to type in my search. After typing in a few letters I start getting the NVDA error ding for each letter I press to finish entering my search term. I press enter and the search seems to work as it should but why the error dings when entering data into the search edit box?


Re: Permanently disabling watchdog via config

 

Hi,
There is no such config option to turn off watchdog at startup, although I think a command line switch might help (if implemented) or modify the source code. The best person to talk to regarding NVDA watchdog is James Teh (Mozilla) who is the main architect of that module.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Felix G.
Sent: Wednesday, December 5, 2018 9:37 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Permanently disabling watchdog via config

Hi!
Let me clear up some of the confusion: Watchdog, in computing, usually refers to a component which monitors whether a system is alive. If the system turns out to be unresponsive, the watchdog will step in and try to get it out of the tight spot. NVDA has one, too. For certain operations, if they do not complete within a certain time, the watchdog jumps in and cancels the operation to make NVDA more responsive. In short, whenever NVDA's core freezes, the watchdog will force it out of the spot where it froze and back into safe territory.
Apologies to programmers for the over-simplification. The truth has to do with threads and exceptions and stuff.
It's a bit like on an airplane. Let's say the pilot decides to switch to autopilot. Theoretically, the plane can now do everything it takes to get to its destination automatically, with the possible exception of landing, which requires human clearance. Still, you wouldn't want to fly with a dead pilot, so the pilot is required to press a button every now and then to indicate they're still alive and breathing.
That's how a watchdog works.
Now my machine, being somewhat on the slow side as far as machines go, seems to encounter a lot of those so-called freezes (unconscious pilots), so the watchdog thinks it has a lot of work to do and ends up cancelling many little interactions between NVDA and other processes.
As a result, data sometimes does not get relayed to NVDA the way it's supposed to, and therefore NVDA sometimes fails to track focus.
Disabling the watchdog, on my system, makes NVDA a bit sluggish sometimes as it wades through some slow spots, but it tends to arrive at the correct answers more often, which outweighs that disadvantage.
When NVDA is running, I can tell the watchdog to go to sleep by typing the following into the Python console:
import watchdog
watchdog.terminate()
So I'm pulling the watchdog's module into the console's scope and then calling its terminate function, which simply tells it to stop watching. Technically, the thread that does the watching just gets killed. Poor doggy. Fortunately just a software one.
Anyway, now I'm looking for a way to have NVDA never even start the watchdog, as I prefer living with the occasional sluggishness or crash rather than have the system behave indeterministically.
All the best,
Felix
Am Mi., 5. Dez. 2018 um 18:20 Uhr schrieb Gene <gsasner@gmail.com>:

From the name, this is most likely an antimalware program. A Goodle search for Watchdog antimalware, shows this as the first result with an explanation of the program:
https://www.watchdogdevelopment.com/en/home/anti-malware

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Tyler Wood
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2018 11:03 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Permanently disabling watchdog via config

Hi,

Please explain what you are talking about by 'watchdog'?

A quick google search of windows 10 watchdog nets how to fix errors
related to it, not how to disable it or even what it does.


Further googling it appears that this is an ssd driver?


On 2018-12-05 3:19 a.m., Felix G. wrote:
Hello,
I'm currently testing some driver scenarios with watchdog disabled,
and by coincidence discovered that some of my longstanding NVDA
issues are not present, or behave differently, when the watchdog is
not on duty. Is there a quick'n'easy way to have the watchdog never start?
All the best,
Felix




Re: Article: Microsoft will replace edge with chrome-based browser for windows 10

Felix G.
 

Don't worry, I have every reason to believe they are very much
committed to accessibility. The transition to UIA was for very valid
reasons even though it created some uncomfortable moments, but that's
what happens for most paradigm shifts.
Let's all make liberal use of the feedback hub when things break for us.
All the best,
Felix
Am Mi., 5. Dez. 2018 um 17:32 Uhr schrieb Jason White via Groups.Io
<jason=jasonjgw.net@groups.io>:


It's reported here that UIA clients such as Narrator can now access the IAccessible2 API used by Chrome.
https://www.windowscentral.com/windows-10-build-18267-heads-out-fast-ring-insiders
(not yet released, apparently)

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Wednesday, December 5, 2018 10:10 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Article: Microsoft will replace edge with chrome-based browser for windows 10

Hi,
This changes if Microsoft insists on using UIA to communicate with the supposed new browser/rendering engine.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Felix G.
Sent: Wednesday, December 5, 2018 6:44 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Article: Microsoft will replace edge with chrome-based browser for windows 10

Hi!
If the new variant will be Chromium-based, chances are it will play nice with NVDA.
Best,
Felix
Am Mi., 5. Dez. 2018 um 15:37 Uhr schrieb Joseph Lee
<joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>:

Hi,
Like any rumors, this is bound to change without notice if market conditions and other variables change.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jacob
Kruger
Sent: Wednesday, December 5, 2018 6:31 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Article: Microsoft will replace edge with
chrome-based browser for windows 10

Ron, while I, honestly, haven't bothered trying out edge too much, all I really meant with my comment was that, if MS themselves are discarding it, then it might not merit much more attention from the NVDA developers?


And, if it's going to come up in it's current state at times, then, hopefully NVDA versions won't get confused about how they should handle it - if differently at all.


But, I primarily just posted this article here since I found it interesting from a browser end-user point of view.


Stay well


Jacob Kruger
082 413 4791
Skype: BlindZA
"Resistance is futile...but, acceptance is versatile..."
On 2018-12-05 4:24 PM, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Hi Jacob,


The only issue I have had with NVDA and Edge is the inability of
NVDA to recognize visited links. I have used Edge with great
success on and off over the past year or so--although I do prefer
Firefox as my default browser.


On 12/5/2018 5:50 AM, Jacob Kruger wrote:
https://mybroadband.co.za/news/software/288342-microsoft-will-repla
ce -edge-with-chrome-based-browser-for-windows-10-report.html



They don't mention anything like time-scale, but, presume this will
mean NVDA devs, etc. can leave out too much worrying about edge
buffering compatibility?

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Resistance is futile...but, acceptance is versatile..."
















Re: Permanently disabling watchdog via config

Felix G.
 

Hi!
Let me clear up some of the confusion: Watchdog, in computing, usually
refers to a component which monitors whether a system is alive. If the
system turns out to be unresponsive, the watchdog will step in and try
to get it out of the tight spot. NVDA has one, too. For certain
operations, if they do not complete within a certain time, the
watchdog jumps in and cancels the operation to make NVDA more
responsive. In short, whenever NVDA's core freezes, the watchdog will
force it out of the spot where it froze and back into safe territory.
Apologies to programmers for the over-simplification. The truth has to
do with threads and exceptions and stuff.
It's a bit like on an airplane. Let's say the pilot decides to switch
to autopilot. Theoretically, the plane can now do everything it takes
to get to its destination automatically, with the possible exception
of landing, which requires human clearance. Still, you wouldn't want
to fly with a dead pilot, so the pilot is required to press a button
every now and then to indicate they're still alive and breathing.
That's how a watchdog works.
Now my machine, being somewhat on the slow side as far as machines go,
seems to encounter a lot of those so-called freezes (unconscious
pilots), so the watchdog thinks it has a lot of work to do and ends up
cancelling many little interactions between NVDA and other processes.
As a result, data sometimes does not get relayed to NVDA the way it's
supposed to, and therefore NVDA sometimes fails to track focus.
Disabling the watchdog, on my system, makes NVDA a bit sluggish
sometimes as it wades through some slow spots, but it tends to arrive
at the correct answers more often, which outweighs that disadvantage.
When NVDA is running, I can tell the watchdog to go to sleep by typing
the following into the Python console:
import watchdog
watchdog.terminate()
So I'm pulling the watchdog's module into the console's scope and then
calling its terminate function, which simply tells it to stop
watching. Technically, the thread that does the watching just gets
killed. Poor doggy. Fortunately just a software one.
Anyway, now I'm looking for a way to have NVDA never even start the
watchdog, as I prefer living with the occasional sluggishness or crash
rather than have the system behave indeterministically.
All the best,
Felix
Am Mi., 5. Dez. 2018 um 18:20 Uhr schrieb Gene <gsasner@gmail.com>:


From the name, this is most likely an antimalware program. A Goodle search for Watchdog antimalware, shows this as the first result with an explanation of the program:
https://www.watchdogdevelopment.com/en/home/anti-malware

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Tyler Wood
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2018 11:03 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Permanently disabling watchdog via config

Hi,

Please explain what you are talking about by 'watchdog'?

A quick google search of windows 10 watchdog nets how to fix errors
related to it, not how to disable it or even what it does.


Further googling it appears that this is an ssd driver?


On 2018-12-05 3:19 a.m., Felix G. wrote:
Hello,
I'm currently testing some driver scenarios with watchdog disabled,
and by coincidence discovered that some of my longstanding NVDA issues
are not present, or behave differently, when the watchdog is not on
duty. Is there a quick'n'easy way to have the watchdog never start?
All the best,
Felix




Re: Permanently disabling watchdog via config

 

Hi all,

I think this is one of those times where I may need to override a forum leader in my capacity as a code contributor (sorry):

The watchdog is indeed not a malware. NVDA’s watchdog is used to keep an eye on how NVDA itself is doing and react to NVDA crashing such as writing a minidump and restarting NVDA if necessary. If watchdog is gone, NVDA won’t be able to respond to its own crashes and such, thus disabling it is not generally recommended.

Thus please disregard the research done on it so far, as they have nothing to do with actual purpose of NVDA’s watchdog module.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Wednesday, December 5, 2018 9:21 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Permanently disabling watchdog via config

 

From the name, this is most likely an antimalware program.  A Goodle search for Watchdog antimalware, shows this as the first result with an explanation of the program:

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Tyler Wood

Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2018 11:03 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Permanently disabling watchdog via config

 

Hi,

Please explain what you are talking about by 'watchdog'?

A quick google search of windows 10 watchdog nets how to fix errors
related to it, not how to disable it or even what it does.


Further googling it appears that this is an ssd driver?


On 2018-12-05 3:19 a.m., Felix G. wrote:
> Hello,
> I'm currently testing some driver scenarios with watchdog disabled,
> and by coincidence discovered that some of my longstanding NVDA issues
> are not present, or behave differently, when the watchdog is not on
> duty. Is there a quick'n'easy way to have the watchdog never start?
> All the best,
> Felix
>
>
>


Re: Permanently disabling watchdog via config

Gene
 

From the name, this is most likely an antimalware program.  A Goodle search for Watchdog antimalware, shows this as the first result with an explanation of the program:
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Tyler Wood
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2018 11:03 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Permanently disabling watchdog via config

Hi,

Please explain what you are talking about by 'watchdog'?

A quick google search of windows 10 watchdog nets how to fix errors
related to it, not how to disable it or even what it does.


Further googling it appears that this is an ssd driver?


On 2018-12-05 3:19 a.m., Felix G. wrote:
> Hello,
> I'm currently testing some driver scenarios with watchdog disabled,
> and by coincidence discovered that some of my longstanding NVDA issues
> are not present, or behave differently, when the watchdog is not on
> duty. Is there a quick'n'easy way to have the watchdog never start?
> All the best,
> Felix
>
>
>



Re: Permanently disabling watchdog via config

Tyler Wood
 

In windows 10 1803, If your issues are the same as mine with NVDA, I should also add here that I really wish I didn't have to perform 5000 steps to get a screen reader to do basic tasks - like reading the windows explorer window after files are copied, moved, or deleted.


I'm exagerating, but this has been going on for 3 plus years and nothing seems to correlate or come to a solution. On lower end hardware it is almost intolerable - alt tabbing is somehow related to this, I think.


However, using 1809, this issue, from what I can see anyway, appears to be almost gone - windows explorer performs similar to other screen readers now and I'm not sure what actually solved this. I only have one computer running the 1809 update, though, so only time will tell. I'm also not running the 2018.4 betas.


So - in conclusion, if you're having these issues, perhaps waiting until the 1809 update hits your device rather than disabling certain drivers would be your best bet? Unless you're having other issues that I'm not aware of.


Either way these are interesting findings.

On 2018-12-05 3:19 a.m., Felix G. wrote:
Hello,
I'm currently testing some driver scenarios with watchdog disabled,
and by coincidence discovered that some of my longstanding NVDA issues
are not present, or behave differently, when the watchdog is not on
duty. Is there a quick'n'easy way to have the watchdog never start?
All the best,
Felix


Re: Permanently disabling watchdog via config

Tyler Wood
 

Hi,

Please explain what you are talking about by 'watchdog'?

A quick google search of windows 10 watchdog nets how to fix errors related to it, not how to disable it or even what it does.


Further googling it appears that this is an ssd driver?

On 2018-12-05 3:19 a.m., Felix G. wrote:
Hello,
I'm currently testing some driver scenarios with watchdog disabled,
and by coincidence discovered that some of my longstanding NVDA issues
are not present, or behave differently, when the watchdog is not on
duty. Is there a quick'n'easy way to have the watchdog never start?
All the best,
Felix


Re: Article: Microsoft will replace edge with chrome-based browser for windows 10

Jason White
 

It's reported here that UIA clients such as Narrator can now access the IAccessible2 API used by Chrome.
https://www.windowscentral.com/windows-10-build-18267-heads-out-fast-ring-insiders
(not yet released, apparently)

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Wednesday, December 5, 2018 10:10 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Article: Microsoft will replace edge with chrome-based browser for windows 10

Hi,
This changes if Microsoft insists on using UIA to communicate with the supposed new browser/rendering engine.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Felix G.
Sent: Wednesday, December 5, 2018 6:44 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Article: Microsoft will replace edge with chrome-based browser for windows 10

Hi!
If the new variant will be Chromium-based, chances are it will play nice with NVDA.
Best,
Felix
Am Mi., 5. Dez. 2018 um 15:37 Uhr schrieb Joseph Lee
<joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>:

Hi,
Like any rumors, this is bound to change without notice if market conditions and other variables change.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jacob
Kruger
Sent: Wednesday, December 5, 2018 6:31 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Article: Microsoft will replace edge with
chrome-based browser for windows 10

Ron, while I, honestly, haven't bothered trying out edge too much, all I really meant with my comment was that, if MS themselves are discarding it, then it might not merit much more attention from the NVDA developers?


And, if it's going to come up in it's current state at times, then, hopefully NVDA versions won't get confused about how they should handle it - if differently at all.


But, I primarily just posted this article here since I found it interesting from a browser end-user point of view.


Stay well


Jacob Kruger
082 413 4791
Skype: BlindZA
"Resistance is futile...but, acceptance is versatile..."
On 2018-12-05 4:24 PM, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Hi Jacob,


The only issue I have had with NVDA and Edge is the inability of
NVDA to recognize visited links. I have used Edge with great
success on and off over the past year or so--although I do prefer
Firefox as my default browser.


On 12/5/2018 5:50 AM, Jacob Kruger wrote:
https://mybroadband.co.za/news/software/288342-microsoft-will-repla
ce -edge-with-chrome-based-browser-for-windows-10-report.html



They don't mention anything like time-scale, but, presume this will
mean NVDA devs, etc. can leave out too much worrying about edge
buffering compatibility?

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Resistance is futile...but, acceptance is versatile..."








Re: I finally got NVDA to work on the Windows log on screen

Casey <cwollner@...>
 

hi Molly maybe if you don't mind send me A message off of the list.

At my e-mail address witch is

cwollner@...

So that we can take this off of the list cause maybe this kind of thing doesn't need to be on the list.

So I will watch for you message have A nice day.



On 12/5/2018 9:54 AM, molly the blind tech lover wrote:

Hi. I’m from the US, and live in Connecticut, hoping to move out of there someday. I’m totally blind, though I used to have some usable vision. I love NVDA. How about you?

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Casey
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2018 12:27 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I finally got NVDA to work on the Windows log on screen

 

Hi Molly welcome to the list.

Just wondering where are you from and are you totally blind or do you have some vision?

 

 

On 11/30/2018 8:28 AM, molly the blind tech lover wrote:

Hey guys, Molly here again.

I posted earlier about not being able to log in to Windows using NVDA. Well today when I turned on my tablet, it announced the time and date as usual. However, since I for some reason can’t use the touchscreen on the log on screen (except when Narrator is running(, I figured I’d hit the escape key just to see what would happen. Wouldn’t you know it, it brought me to the pin edit box. After typing in my pin, NVDA immediately turned on… I guess I should have tried this last week. Jeez. I feel so dumb. Anyway, the point is I can now log in without any issues.

-- 
 
Casey
-- 

Casey


Re: I finally got NVDA to work on the Windows log on screen

Gene
 

A note from the moderator:
The list doesn't want a lot of me too messages.  If people have specific features they like about NVDA or specific uses where they consider it better than other screen-readers or specific things they don't like or would like improved, those might lead to good discussion or be informative for users.  But please don't sendd a lot of one sentence messages saying you like NVDA or similar messages with no content that adds to knowledge or to meaningful discussion.
 
Presumably, people are on this list because they either very much like NVDA, prefer it, or are learning about it.  But most people wouldn't be on the list if they disliked it.
 
Gene, Moderator

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2018 9:54 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] I finally got NVDA to work on the Windows log on screen

Hi. I’m from the US, and live in Connecticut, hoping to move out of there someday. I’m totally blind, though I used to have some usable vision. I love NVDA. How about you?

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Casey
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2018 12:27 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I finally got NVDA to work on the Windows log on screen

 

Hi Molly welcome to the list.

Just wondering where are you from and are you totally blind or do you have some vision?

 

 

On 11/30/2018 8:28 AM, molly the blind tech lover wrote:

Hey guys, Molly here again.

I posted earlier about not being able to log in to Windows using NVDA. Well today when I turned on my tablet, it announced the time and date as usual. However, since I for some reason can’t use the touchscreen on the log on screen (except when Narrator is running(, I figured I’d hit the escape key just to see what would happen. Wouldn’t you know it, it brought me to the pin edit box. After typing in my pin, NVDA immediately turned on… I guess I should have tried this last week. Jeez. I feel so dumb. Anyway, the point is I can now log in without any issues.

-- 
 
Casey


Re: Article: Microsoft will replace edge with chrome-based browser for windows 10

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Yes the fact is there are cut down versions of chrome and firefox et all out there that have no accessibility whatsoever so it is presumably the choice of the company using the engine how they enable access. I just hope that if this proves to be true, they do not make such a cock up with it as they did in the start of Edge.
Brian who hopes the Skype programmers are not in charge of it :-)


bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2018 3:10 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Article: Microsoft will replace edge with chrome-based browser for windows 10


Hi,
This changes if Microsoft insists on using UIA to communicate with the supposed new browser/rendering engine.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Felix G.
Sent: Wednesday, December 5, 2018 6:44 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Article: Microsoft will replace edge with chrome-based browser for windows 10

Hi!
If the new variant will be Chromium-based, chances are it will play nice with NVDA.
Best,
Felix
Am Mi., 5. Dez. 2018 um 15:37 Uhr schrieb Joseph Lee
<joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>:

Hi,
Like any rumors, this is bound to change without notice if market conditions and other variables change.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jacob
Kruger
Sent: Wednesday, December 5, 2018 6:31 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Article: Microsoft will replace edge with
chrome-based browser for windows 10

Ron, while I, honestly, haven't bothered trying out edge too much, all I really meant with my comment was that, if MS themselves are discarding it, then it might not merit much more attention from the NVDA developers?


And, if it's going to come up in it's current state at times, then, hopefully NVDA versions won't get confused about how they should handle it - if differently at all.


But, I primarily just posted this article here since I found it interesting from a browser end-user point of view.


Stay well


Jacob Kruger
082 413 4791
Skype: BlindZA
"Resistance is futile...but, acceptance is versatile..."
On 2018-12-05 4:24 PM, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Hi Jacob,


The only issue I have had with NVDA and Edge is the inability of
NVDA to recognize visited links. I have used Edge with great
success on and off over the past year or so--although I do prefer
Firefox as my default browser.


On 12/5/2018 5:50 AM, Jacob Kruger wrote:
https://mybroadband.co.za/news/software/288342-microsoft-will-repla
ce -edge-with-chrome-based-browser-for-windows-10-report.html



They don't mention anything like time-scale, but, presume this will
mean NVDA devs, etc. can leave out too much worrying about edge
buffering compatibility?

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Resistance is futile...but, acceptance is versatile..."








Re: Article: Microsoft will replace edge with chrome-based browser for windows 10

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

All we need now is for them to announce a return to normal menu bars etc as a format choice in their software and the ability to still get security updates to 10 without a 6 month re install of windows with its attendant cock ups and the need to relearn how to do things and we will be fine......
Flying pig alert.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Canazzi" <aa2vm@roadrunner.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2018 2:24 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Article: Microsoft will replace edge with chrome-based browser for windows 10


Hi Jacob,


The only issue I have had with NVDA and Edge is the inability of NVDA to recognize visited links. I have used Edge with great success on and off over the past year or so--although I do prefer Firefox as my default browser.


On 12/5/2018 5:50 AM, Jacob Kruger wrote:
https://mybroadband.co.za/news/software/288342-microsoft-will-replace-edge-with-chrome-based-browser-for-windows-10-report.html


They don't mention anything like time-scale, but, presume this will mean NVDA devs, etc. can leave out too much worrying about edge buffering compatibility?

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Resistance is futile...but, acceptance is versatile..."


--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"



Re: Permanently disabling watchdog via config

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

There used to be in the console, but I've not tried it lately so I'll bow to others with more up to date knowledge before I go furtling back though my archives. They can't touch you for it you know.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Felix G." <constantlyvariable@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2018 9:19 AM
Subject: [nvda] Permanently disabling watchdog via config


Hello,
I'm currently testing some driver scenarios with watchdog disabled,
and by coincidence discovered that some of my longstanding NVDA issues
are not present, or behave differently, when the watchdog is not on
duty. Is there a quick'n'easy way to have the watchdog never start?
All the best,
Felix


Re: NVDA 2018.4beta3

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Yes it updated OK here.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Quentin Christensen" <quentin@nvaccess.org>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2018 10:29 PM
Subject: [nvda] NVDA 2018.4beta3


Hi everyone,

I forgot to post yesterday, but beta3 has been released for NVDA 2018.4.
Specifically changed in this version:

Changes from Beta2:

- Fix bug where table cells in Libre Office Calc were always reporting
as ‘unselected’.
- Fix bug where reporting distance of the cursor to the edge of a page
in Microsoft Word was not taking paragraph indenting into account.
- Fix bug where editing a punctuation symbol (such as an emoji) but not
providing a replacement would cause speech to completely fail.
- Updated translations


Read the full announcement and download the beta from:
https://www.nvaccess.org/post/nvda-2018-4beta3-released/

Regards

Quentin.


--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess


Re: thunderbird 60 for screen reader users:

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I think this thread has probably run its course now, as unless somebody can influence personal choices its pointless.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <gsasner@gmail.com>
To: "Gene" <gsasner@gmail.com>; <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2018 9:53 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] thunderbird 60 for screen reader users:


Also, when I say modern e-mail programs have default settings that keep such code from running, I'm pretty sure the newest version of Outlook Express, the latest XP version, uses such settings. I don't know at what point Outlook Express adopted such settings.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Gene
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2018 3:50 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] thunderbird 60 for screen reader users:


You may be thinking about bits of code in e-mail called, as I recall, beacons. But modern e-mail programs have default settings that keep such code from running. It well may be that old programs have settings that can be set to keep the code from running as well but I haven't looked into the question.

Sometimes, Kim Komando oversimplifies things and thus gives out inaccurate information, though she is largely or mostly reliable. this is one such case. When I heard her discuss this, and then looked into the matter to an extent, I found that, as I said modern programs don't allow this by default and, of course, they can't do anything if you read mail as plain text.

A message may have malicious code in it that can do all sorts of things, such as take your browser to a site automatically, which is why I read mail as plain text and only look at messages I trust in HTML if I have a reason to. Thunderbird has a setting called simple html that shows thing such as links but doesn't allow any code to run. While I don't know this, I think that is as safe as reading mail as plain text. I don't use Thunderbird but if I did, I might well use that setting. I could then follow links in e-mail messages, be, I believe, as safe as reading mail as plain text, and not have to switch to HTML to read something like newsletters that require HTML to see links.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Ron Canazzi
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2018 3:31 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] thunderbird 60 for screen reader users:


Hi Group,




A while back, there was a Kim Kommando article about the fact that even if a link is present in an e-mail message and even if you don't click on it. I can't remember which one, but some sort of virus or Trojan could be let loose even if you just opened the e-mail. Maybe it was that I love you thingie.




On 12/4/2018 3:56 PM, Travis Siegel wrote:

I'm guessing you never heard of the I love you virus?

It was spread vie compromised email programs. Without looking it up, I can't remember which ones, but I'm fairly certain outlook was on the top of that list.


There, now you can no longer say you have nvever heard of a virus being spread via an email program.




On 12/4/2018 2:55 PM, Gene wrote:

When is the last time you saw a credible report, or even a questionable one, about vulnerabilities in an e-mail program being hacked to spread malware? It is important to use current versions of browsers but I very much question that it matters much with e-mail programs unless, perhaps they are very old. With all the people on lists we follow who use Outlook Express, a very old program, however, I have never seen one report on lists or anywhere else of malicious e-mail being used to infect machines with that program or other perhaps more vulnerable programs. If a program is too old, it may not have good default security settings. For example, it may automatically download images, which is a security risk. That should be turned off. I would use effective security settings with e-mail programs. Why invite trouble? But I question that malicious code in e-mails is much of a problem. Others may disagree and may have factual information about this but from what I've observed for a long time, this is what I think currently.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Ron Canazzi
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2018 12:15 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] thunderbird 60 for screen reader users:


SECURITY SECURITY SECURITY!


Failing to update programs that regularly access the Internet such as
mail programs endangers your system. Many updates involving patching
security holes and/or protection against new threats in the wild such as
Trojans and root kits.



On 12/4/2018 11:51 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
> Personally with email software, unless you have a valid reason to
> change the version stick with what works. There is a lot to be said
> for another well known proverb
> If its not broken don't fix it!
> Brian
>
> bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
> Sent via blueyonder.
> Please address personal E-mail to:-
> briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
> in the display name field.
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "zahra" <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com>
> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2018 1:45 PM
> Subject: [nvda] thunderbird 60 for screen reader users:
>
>
>> hello every one.
>> as you know, firefox quantum with multiprocess support, caused many
>> issues, slowness, crashes or instibilities for screen reader users.
>> i am curious and wish that know, does thunderbird 60 has the issues of
>> firefox quantum which i mentioned?
>> thunderbird 60 like new versions of firefox, support photon and
>> quantum css, but fortunately does not support multiprocess until now.
>>
>> --
>> By God,
>> were I given all the seven heavens
>> with all they contain
>> in order that
>> I may disobey God
>> by depriving an ant
>> from the husk of a grain of barley,
>> I would not do it.
>> imam ali
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"







Virus-free. www.avast.com

--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


Re: thunderbird 60 for screen reader users:

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

So how do you reckon you can still use Outlook Express then? assumedly this works as I use it all the time it being far better than any Microsoft heap that has followed it.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Shaun Everiss" <sm.everiss@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2018 8:54 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] thunderbird 60 for screen reader users:


Technically thats true however eventually if a program is not updated
anymore it stops recieving updated ssl certs automatically, yes you can
still use eudora7 but you have to manually apply ssl certs the ssl
software also changes and with heartblead and other things if your ssl
lib has issues then you do to.

Saying that if you wanted to use thunderbird 52 its not like they will
be not supporting it immediately there isn't any updates to it though
but you can still use it.

Keeping preview pains off and not allowing remote contnet as well as how
you open and use attachments is probably all you need to keep safe.

That includes not allowing html or anything to run inside an email.

Thats probably all you need to really be concerned with.

An email attachment can infect you and if something directs you online
then maybe but an actual email can't.

Technically in a text file there is something old called an ansi virus
which could infect your system.

But you would notice it, I mean its not like you could hide the code in
your file and wander what is that extra code doing there.

At any rate, the chances of getting infected from an email is basically
0 now.

For the last 5 or so years antivirus and antispam has been a core part
of any isp platform even google.

True there are downsides but what it means is you shouldn't be able to
get any infections in email even attachments are prescanned to some
extent before you get an email.

Cloud attachments should also be scanned maybe anyway.

The only thing clicking fishing links and the like thats a problem.



On 12/5/2018 8:55 AM, Gene wrote:
When is the last time you saw a credible report, or even a questionable one, about vulnerabilities in an e-mail program being hacked to spread malware? It is important to use current versions of browsers but I very much question that it matters much with e-mail programs unless, perhaps they are very old. With all the people on lists we follow who use Outlook Express, a very old program, however, I have never seen one report on lists or anywhere else of malicious e-mail being used to infect machines with that program or other perhaps more vulnerable programs. If a program is too old, it may not have good default security settings. For example, it may automatically download images, which is a security risk. That should be turned off. I would use effective security settings with e-mail programs. Why invite trouble? But I question that malicious code in e-mails is much of a problem. Others may disagree and may have factual information about this but from what I've observed for a long time, this is what I think currently.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Ron Canazzi
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2018 12:15 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] thunderbird 60 for screen reader users:


SECURITY SECURITY SECURITY!


Failing to update programs that regularly access the Internet such as
mail programs endangers your system. Many updates involving patching
security holes and/or protection against new threats in the wild such as
Trojans and root kits.



On 12/4/2018 11:51 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
Personally with email software, unless you have a valid reason to
change the version stick with what works. There is a lot to be said
for another well known proverb
If its not broken don't fix it!
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
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----- Original Message ----- From: "zahra" <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2018 1:45 PM
Subject: [nvda] thunderbird 60 for screen reader users:


hello every one.
as you know, firefox quantum with multiprocess support, caused many
issues, slowness, crashes or instibilities for screen reader users.
i am curious and wish that know, does thunderbird 60 has the issues of
firefox quantum which i mentioned?
thunderbird 60 like new versions of firefox, support photon and
quantum css, but fortunately does not support multiprocess until now.

--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali





Re: thunderbird 60 for screen reader users:

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Even Outlook Express has no images by default. You can even view in plain text if you want, but increasingly those sending out emails tend to either not include a text version at all or you find huge links cluttering up the text if you try to read them, so in my view its laziness of email program senders that are probably worst of all. If everyone used text and visible links then hidden links of malicious intent would never get past the first read through.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <gsasner@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2018 7:55 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] thunderbird 60 for screen reader users:


When is the last time you saw a credible report, or even a questionable one, about vulnerabilities in an e-mail program being hacked to spread malware? It is important to use current versions of browsers but I very much question that it matters much with e-mail programs unless, perhaps they are very old. With all the people on lists we follow who use Outlook Express, a very old program, however, I have never seen one report on lists or anywhere else of malicious e-mail being used to infect machines with that program or other perhaps more vulnerable programs. If a program is too old, it may not have good default security settings. For example, it may automatically download images, which is a security risk. That should be turned off. I would use effective security settings with e-mail programs. Why invite trouble? But I question that malicious code in e-mails is much of a problem. Others may disagree and may have factual information about this but from what I've observed for a long time, this is what I think currently.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Ron Canazzi
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2018 12:15 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] thunderbird 60 for screen reader users:


SECURITY SECURITY SECURITY!


Failing to update programs that regularly access the Internet such as
mail programs endangers your system. Many updates involving patching
security holes and/or protection against new threats in the wild such as
Trojans and root kits.



On 12/4/2018 11:51 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
Personally with email software, unless you have a valid reason to
change the version stick with what works. There is a lot to be said
for another well known proverb
If its not broken don't fix it!
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "zahra" <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2018 1:45 PM
Subject: [nvda] thunderbird 60 for screen reader users:


hello every one.
as you know, firefox quantum with multiprocess support, caused many
issues, slowness, crashes or instibilities for screen reader users.
i am curious and wish that know, does thunderbird 60 has the issues of
firefox quantum which i mentioned?
thunderbird 60 like new versions of firefox, support photon and
quantum css, but fortunately does not support multiprocess until now.

--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali





--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


Re: I finally got NVDA to work on the Windows log on screen

molly the blind tech lover
 

Hi. I’m from the US, and live in Connecticut, hoping to move out of there someday. I’m totally blind, though I used to have some usable vision. I love NVDA. How about you?

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Casey
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2018 12:27 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I finally got NVDA to work on the Windows log on screen

 

Hi Molly welcome to the list.

Just wondering where are you from and are you totally blind or do you have some vision?

 

 

On 11/30/2018 8:28 AM, molly the blind tech lover wrote:

Hey guys, Molly here again.

I posted earlier about not being able to log in to Windows using NVDA. Well today when I turned on my tablet, it announced the time and date as usual. However, since I for some reason can’t use the touchscreen on the log on screen (except when Narrator is running(, I figured I’d hit the escape key just to see what would happen. Wouldn’t you know it, it brought me to the pin edit box. After typing in my pin, NVDA immediately turned on… I guess I should have tried this last week. Jeez. I feel so dumb. Anyway, the point is I can now log in without any issues.

-- 
 
Casey