Date   

Tutorial for NVDA and XL

Sile
 

Hello all


Does anhyone know of a tutorial for XL that goes beyond the basics of just entering data into cells, e.g. writing formulas and dealing with rollover cells?


Thanks,


--Sile


Re: tutorial for using a physical mouse

Gene
 

I don't know the technical aspects of this but as I understand it, when you move the mouse with NVDA and click it using NVDA, you are performing the same functions differently.  But if that is so, why are there some things you can't make do something when you click the NVDA mouse function?  There seems to be some difference.  Is there any way to work on that to make the NVDA mouse and the physical mouse do exactly the same thing? 
 
This is the case with other screen-readers as well.
 

Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2018 4:11 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] tutorial for using a physical mouse

Using a physical mouse is quite challenging, however, there are usually alternative ways of doing what you would have done with the mouse.

I would recommend the Basic Training for NVDA to learn to use the key ways:
- Windows keystrokes for things which have a built-in keyboard methods of accessing.
- NVDA keystrokes for functionality provided by the screen-reader.
- Object navigation and the Review Cursor: NVDA's comprehensive way of accessing items on screen which can't be otherwise accessed with the keyboard.

Object navigation is one of the big tools here, while the keys themselves are available from the User Guide https://www.nvaccess.org/files/nvda/documentation/userGuide.html#NavigatingWithNVDA they are quite complex and not necessarily obvious to a new user, which is particularly why I would recommend the training material as being a worthwhile investment for most users.

Coming back to the original question, and the other way of moving the mouse, is via the keyboard, either using Windows' built-in mousekeys accessibility feature, or via the NVDA add-on Golden Cursor (which essentially provides similar functionality to mousekeys but with many more options): https://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/goldenCursor.en.html

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Dec 11, 2018 at 7:38 AM Robert Doc Wright godfearer <godfearer@...> wrote:
Are there any instructions that will help a total use a physical mouse with efficiency?



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Re: How can I configure NVDA to speak nothing? #advisory

Gene
 

I don't see the point of changing it.  Is it really that much trouble to use NVDA command twice to get back to speech when it is off?  I think working on an add-on and removing beeps is micromanagement and a waste of developer time.
 
Gene

----- Original message -----
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2018 3:58 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] How can I configure NVDA to speak nothing? #advisory

There is an issue for removing the beeps option and having an add-on to provide it for those who want it (compared to the current functionality of the feature being in the core and using an add-on to remove it): https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/5631  The comments to the issue indicate that while for those who don't use the functionality, the use of beeps mode may seem unclear, there are certainly those who do use it.

While I personally agree with using the add-on to provide the extra functionality (that some users really find useful and others don't need at all), I would make the point that it would require work from someone which would then essentially bring us back to exactly the situation we have now (you can have the functionality or not, using an add-on to achieve one state).  That work could instead be directed to functionality which doesn't currently exist.

On Mon, Dec 10, 2018 at 11:51 PM Mohamed <malhajamy@...> wrote:
Personally I've used it on occasions, though I've changed the pitch to
an A note rather than the default, as the default pitch sounds rather
painful to me.

On 12/9/2018 1:21 PM, Travis Siegel wrote:
> I thought the beeps mode would act like the old asap screen reader for
> dos did, in that when text is scrolling on the screen, it would
> constantly emit beeps to let you know the program was still producing
> output. However, when I was doing a rather lengthy compile a couple
> months ago, I tried turning on beeps mode, hoping it would continue
> beeping (once every second or so), or perhaps everytime the screen
> updated, but that did not happen.  I actually got no output at all,
> beeps or otherwise, which is not at all what I expected.  As a result,
> I just assumed the beep mode was broken, and went back to switching
> away from compile windows and checking periodically to see if they're
> done, since beeps mode doesn't perform as expected.
>
>
>
>





--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


very nice quote

Pascal Lambert <coccinelle86@...>
 

A very nice quote Brian!

Pascal

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2018 5:03 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How can I configure NVDA to speak nothing? #advisory

 

On Mon, Dec 10, 2018 at 04:59 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:

you can have the functionality or not, using an add-on to achieve one state

I consider the "directionality" of the add-on, whether activating or deactivating the feature, to be irrelevant.  Six of one, half a dozen of the other.  I'd far rather see focus on functionality that does not currently exist.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


Re: voices for NVDA

Gene
 

Its easier to understand words at fast rates of speech.  I can listen at about 350 or 400 words per minute with Eloquence and I don't have to stop as often to review a word.  the Dectalk voice is more pleasant sounding, but if you listen to Eloquence at faster speeds, the unpleasant raspy quality is mostly gone.  Also, Eloquence pronounces more words correctly.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Don H
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2018 11:57 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] voices for NVDA

I was a long long time user of Window Eyes and always used DecTalk.
Never understood why people ever used Eloquence  but I guess it is what
you get used to.

On 12/10/2018 11:37 AM, Gene wrote:
> If you are interested in the Eloquence that comes with the Code Factory
> add-on, try the demo to be sure you want it.  The Eloquence has lots of
> annoying artifacts, sounds that shouldn't be there.
> Gene
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Vlad Dragomir <mailto:vladdragomir1983@...>
> *Sent:* Monday, December 10, 2018 11:13 AM
> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> *Subject:* Re: [nvda] voices for NVDA
>
> Don,
>
> No, I wouldn’t say that one is better than the other. To be more exact,
> one might be better than the other for different people. Both have
> problems, and both Code Factory and Tiflotecnia seem to be more than
> happy to be paid, without caring much about quality. Here are a few
> things to be aware of:
>
>  1. Code Factory Vocalizer comes with Eloquence as a pack, it’s cheaper,
>     and you get two synthesizers. Vocalizer voices are being regularly
>     updated, there are either new voices or new languages added once or
>     twice per year. Say-all and spell-line commands do not work with
>     Vocalizer, and if you send them emails to ask them to fix this, you
>     only receive deep silence as a response, they seem to be too busy
>     going on holidays and spending what they’ve got from us.
>  2. Tiflotecnia are even more expensive, their driver seems to be a
>     little more polished and less buggy. On the other hand, no new
>     voices/languages, no updates for the last three years or so, but
>     they are very good at promises. They did a good job at the
>     beginning, and since then they enjoy living on rent.
>
> This was a very subjective overview, which I hope will help you a bit. I
> suggest trying them both before making a decision. None is perfect, but
> only you can tell which is better for you.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Vlad.
>
>




Re: Inserting a row in MS Word table

Ann Byrne
 

There is an item, insert, on the applications menu--applications key or shift+f10, or right click. Insert rows above, insert rows below.

At 02:32 PM 12/10/2018, you wrote:
Thanks, it will be very helpful.

On 12/10/18, Brian Vogel <britechguy@gmail.com> wrote:
Yes, you can insert a single, or multiple,
rows above or below the currently
selected row (or rows).

Once you have selected a row or rows, hit the applications/menu key if you
have one or SHIFT+F10 if you don't. From the context menu that comes up
activate the Insert item, which will then
give you the submenu for insert,
which includes rows above or rows below. Â
There are other options as well.
If you have a single row with focus you will get a single row inserted, if
you have multiple rows selected then you will get the same number of empty
rows inserted as you already have selected.

--

Brian *-* Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763

*A great deal of intelligence can be invested
in ignorance when the need for
illusion is deep.*

     ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back




Re: How can I configure NVDA to speak nothing? #advisory

 

On Mon, Dec 10, 2018 at 05:16 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
There are two threads of conversation going here I think - when beeps came up, some people automatically thought of the NVDA+S beep mode, and others instinctively went to the NVDA+U progress bar indication.
I agree.  That being said "Beeps Speech Mode" is disjoint from the use of beep tones to report the status of a progress bar.  I'm actually hoping that the confusion is now resolved, as the difference between each, and the fact that they are unrelated, has been covered and covered well during this topic.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


Re: New Vocalizer and Vocalizer-Expressive addons from Tiflotecnia

Abbie Taylor <abbietaylor945@...>
 

What do you mean by all alpha versions of NVDA? Are the driver and voices compatilbe with the current version, or do we need to wait until the new version is released before we can use them? Thanks.

--
Abbie Johnson Taylor, Author
http://www.abbiejohnsontaylor.com
http://abbiescorner.wordpress.com
abbietaylor945@...


Re: How can I configure NVDA to speak nothing? #advisory

Quentin Christensen
 

Brian,

I agree.  In theory it makes more sense to have the core provide the minimum functionality, and for something that only a group of users want, make that available via an add-on.  In this case, given the functionality is already built into core, and there is an existing add-on to remove it for those who prefer that, the main reason I can see for putting in the work to swap it around, would be to potentially remove one element of confusion for users who aren't familiar with the functionality.

Kevin,

There are two threads of conversation going here I think - when beeps came up, some people automatically thought of the NVDA+S beep mode, and others instinctively went to the NVDA+U progress bar indication.


On Tue, Dec 11, 2018 at 9:11 AM Kevin Cussick via Groups.Io <the.big.white.shepherd=googlemail.com@groups.io> wrote:
I maybe didn't make it clear enough!   sorry my bad!   I am not talking
about the speech beeps addon I was talking about the beeps that ere
built in to Nvda.

On 10/12/2018 04:33, Travis Siegel wrote:
> I don't get any beeps at all in the command prompt when text is
> scrolling, so either the beeps mode doesn't work in the command prompt,
> or my beeps are broken.
>
>
> On Sun, 9 Dec 2018, Roger Stewart wrote:
>
>> There is no need for speech mode beeps to do this. You can configure
>> nvda to just beep when it is downloading a file and the higher the
>> pitch of the beeps, the more progress has been made in the download.
>> This can also be set to off, beep, and also beep and speak and in the
>> case of speak, it will just speak the percentage downloaded at regular
>> intervals.
>>
>> Roger
>>
>
>
>





--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Re: How can I configure NVDA to speak nothing? #advisory

Kevin Cussick
 

I maybe didn't make it clear enough! sorry my bad! I am not talking about the speech beeps addon I was talking about the beeps that ere built in to Nvda.

On 10/12/2018 04:33, Travis Siegel wrote:
I don't get any beeps at all in the command prompt when text is scrolling, so either the beeps mode doesn't work in the command prompt, or my beeps are broken.
On Sun, 9 Dec 2018, Roger Stewart wrote:

There is no need for speech mode beeps to do this. You can configure nvda to just beep when it is downloading a file and the higher the pitch of the beeps, the more progress has been made in the download. This can also be set to off, beep, and also beep and speak and in the case of speak, it will just speak the percentage downloaded at regular intervals.

Roger


Re: tutorial for using a physical mouse

Quentin Christensen
 

Using a physical mouse is quite challenging, however, there are usually alternative ways of doing what you would have done with the mouse.

I would recommend the Basic Training for NVDA to learn to use the key ways:
- Windows keystrokes for things which have a built-in keyboard methods of accessing.
- NVDA keystrokes for functionality provided by the screen-reader.
- Object navigation and the Review Cursor: NVDA's comprehensive way of accessing items on screen which can't be otherwise accessed with the keyboard.

Object navigation is one of the big tools here, while the keys themselves are available from the User Guide https://www.nvaccess.org/files/nvda/documentation/userGuide.html#NavigatingWithNVDA they are quite complex and not necessarily obvious to a new user, which is particularly why I would recommend the training material as being a worthwhile investment for most users.

Coming back to the original question, and the other way of moving the mouse, is via the keyboard, either using Windows' built-in mousekeys accessibility feature, or via the NVDA add-on Golden Cursor (which essentially provides similar functionality to mousekeys but with many more options): https://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/goldenCursor.en.html

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Dec 11, 2018 at 7:38 AM Robert Doc Wright godfearer <godfearer@...> wrote:
Are there any instructions that will help a total use a physical mouse with efficiency?



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Re: How can I configure NVDA to speak nothing? #advisory

 

On Mon, Dec 10, 2018 at 04:59 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
you can have the functionality or not, using an add-on to achieve one state
I consider the "directionality" of the add-on, whether activating or deactivating the feature, to be irrelevant.  Six of one, half a dozen of the other.  I'd far rather see focus on functionality that does not currently exist.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


Re: NVDA 2018.4 RC1 released

Quentin Christensen
 

Thanks Brian,


"Release Candidate 1 of NVDA 2018.4 is now available for download and testing. For anyone who is interested in trying out what NVDA 2018.4 has to offer before it is officially released, we welcome you to download the beta and provide feedback. This is a release candidate, meaning that unless any critical bugs are found, this will be identical to the final 2018.4 release."



On Tue, Dec 11, 2018 at 2:20 AM Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:
Just in case nobody has said it. I will. I cannot see the announcement but
anyone on the beta Snaps will have been sent it today.

 I'll leave it up to the usual folk to fill in the where and what etc about
it.
 Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.






--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Re: How can I configure NVDA to speak nothing? #advisory

Quentin Christensen
 

There is an issue for removing the beeps option and having an add-on to provide it for those who want it (compared to the current functionality of the feature being in the core and using an add-on to remove it): https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/5631  The comments to the issue indicate that while for those who don't use the functionality, the use of beeps mode may seem unclear, there are certainly those who do use it.

While I personally agree with using the add-on to provide the extra functionality (that some users really find useful and others don't need at all), I would make the point that it would require work from someone which would then essentially bring us back to exactly the situation we have now (you can have the functionality or not, using an add-on to achieve one state).  That work could instead be directed to functionality which doesn't currently exist.

On Mon, Dec 10, 2018 at 11:51 PM Mohamed <malhajamy@...> wrote:
Personally I've used it on occasions, though I've changed the pitch to
an A note rather than the default, as the default pitch sounds rather
painful to me.

On 12/9/2018 1:21 PM, Travis Siegel wrote:
> I thought the beeps mode would act like the old asap screen reader for
> dos did, in that when text is scrolling on the screen, it would
> constantly emit beeps to let you know the program was still producing
> output. However, when I was doing a rather lengthy compile a couple
> months ago, I tried turning on beeps mode, hoping it would continue
> beeping (once every second or so), or perhaps everytime the screen
> updated, but that did not happen.  I actually got no output at all,
> beeps or otherwise, which is not at all what I expected.  As a result,
> I just assumed the beep mode was broken, and went back to switching
> away from compile windows and checking periodically to see if they're
> done, since beeps mode doesn't perform as expected.
>
>
>
>





--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Re: Inserting a row in MS Word table

Cearbhall O'Meadhra
 

Nevzat,

Inserting elements into tables is a Word function and is not related to any screen reader.

Move your arrow into the current table on the row before or after which you want to insert a new row. Press the application key, or the combination of alt+F10 if the application key is not available. Press Down-arrow in the application menu until you find "insert". This is a sub-menu, so press righth-arrow into it and you will see all the items that you can insert. One of these is "Rows above" and next is "Rows below".


All the best,

Cearbhall

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@blbc.ie

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Nevzat Adil
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2018 5:14 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Inserting a row in MS Word table

Hi group,

I am doing an assignment in an MS word document with tables.
When I come to the last column of the last row I am told I can add another row by pressing tab.
That's fine, but what I'd like to be able to do is to insert a row within the table.
Is their a way to do this using NVDA or JAWS?
Your response will be appreciated.
Nevzat


tutorial for using a physical mouse

Robert Doc Wright godfearer
 

Are there any instructions that will help a total use a physical mouse with efficiency?


Re: Inserting a row in MS Word table

 

Thanks, it will be very helpful.

On 12/10/18, Brian Vogel <britechguy@gmail.com> wrote:
Yes, you can insert a single, or multiple, rows above or below the currently
selected row (or rows).

Once you have selected a row or rows, hit the applications/menu key if you
have one or SHIFT+F10 if you don't.  From the context menu that comes up
activate the Insert item, which will then give you the submenu for insert,
which includes rows above or rows below.   There are other options as well.
If you have a single row with focus you will get a single row inserted, if
you have multiple rows selected then you will get the same number of empty
rows inserted as you already have selected.

--

Brian *-* Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763

*A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for
illusion is deep.*

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back




Re: voices for NVDA

Mike Sedmak
 

FWIW I have been using the Tiflotecnia vocalizer for several years.
While the drivers have not been updated, they have not been causing me
any trouble.
I like the vocalizer voices better than most other options on windows 7.

I have had license trouble a few times when migrating to a new
computer and Tiflotecnia helped me resolve my license issues within 2
days.

Mike

On 12/10/18, Don H <lmddh50@adams.net> wrote:
I was a long long time user of Window Eyes and always used DecTalk.
Never understood why people ever used Eloquence but I guess it is what
you get used to.

On 12/10/2018 11:37 AM, Gene wrote:
If you are interested in the Eloquence that comes with the Code Factory
add-on, try the demo to be sure you want it.  The Eloquence has lots of
annoying artifacts, sounds that shouldn't be there.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Vlad Dragomir <mailto:vladdragomir1983@gmail.com>
*Sent:* Monday, December 10, 2018 11:13 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] voices for NVDA

Don,

No, I wouldn’t say that one is better than the other. To be more exact,
one might be better than the other for different people. Both have
problems, and both Code Factory and Tiflotecnia seem to be more than
happy to be paid, without caring much about quality. Here are a few
things to be aware of:

1. Code Factory Vocalizer comes with Eloquence as a pack, it’s cheaper,
and you get two synthesizers. Vocalizer voices are being regularly
updated, there are either new voices or new languages added once or
twice per year. Say-all and spell-line commands do not work with
Vocalizer, and if you send them emails to ask them to fix this, you
only receive deep silence as a response, they seem to be too busy
going on holidays and spending what they’ve got from us.
2. Tiflotecnia are even more expensive, their driver seems to be a
little more polished and less buggy. On the other hand, no new
voices/languages, no updates for the last three years or so, but
they are very good at promises. They did a good job at the
beginning, and since then they enjoy living on rent.

This was a very subjective overview, which I hope will help you a bit. I
suggest trying them both before making a decision. None is perfect, but
only you can tell which is better for you.

Best regards,

Vlad.





Miranda NG improved their discord support

 

In addition to a whole host of other changes. Given the below post, it sounds like even more protocols will be coming but I can't find anything in the github repo though. I've tried to see if the speak add on got an update, to read chat rooms, but it did not. It still works.


https://www.miranda-ng.org/en/news/0-95-10


Re: voices for NVDA

Don H
 

I was a long long time user of Window Eyes and always used DecTalk. Never understood why people ever used Eloquence but I guess it is what you get used to.

On 12/10/2018 11:37 AM, Gene wrote:
If you are interested in the Eloquence that comes with the Code Factory add-on, try the demo to be sure you want it.  The Eloquence has lots of annoying artifacts, sounds that shouldn't be there.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Vlad Dragomir <mailto:vladdragomir1983@gmail.com>
*Sent:* Monday, December 10, 2018 11:13 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] voices for NVDA
Don,
No, I wouldn’t say that one is better than the other. To be more exact, one might be better than the other for different people. Both have problems, and both Code Factory and Tiflotecnia seem to be more than happy to be paid, without caring much about quality. Here are a few things to be aware of:
1. Code Factory Vocalizer comes with Eloquence as a pack, it’s cheaper,
and you get two synthesizers. Vocalizer voices are being regularly
updated, there are either new voices or new languages added once or
twice per year. Say-all and spell-line commands do not work with
Vocalizer, and if you send them emails to ask them to fix this, you
only receive deep silence as a response, they seem to be too busy
going on holidays and spending what they’ve got from us.
2. Tiflotecnia are even more expensive, their driver seems to be a
little more polished and less buggy. On the other hand, no new
voices/languages, no updates for the last three years or so, but
they are very good at promises. They did a good job at the
beginning, and since then they enjoy living on rent.
This was a very subjective overview, which I hope will help you a bit. I suggest trying them both before making a decision. None is perfect, but only you can tell which is better for you.
Best regards,
Vlad.