Date   

Re: How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor

 

Hi,
If you're coming from JAWS to NVDA, object navigation may sound similar to
touch cursor from JAWS. In fact, they are really the same.
You can't navigate freely via JAWS cursor, or in terms of NVDA, a
combination of review cursor and screen review in more recent apps.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ann Byrne
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 8:40 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS
cursor

My most difficult issue with NVDA is understanding object view. I struggle
to move freely around the screen the way the JAWS cursor often does.


Re: nvda/tablet is working again

Chris Mullins
 

He’s probably looking for the mouse.

 

Happy Christmas

Chris

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of molly the blind tech lover
Sent: 22 December 2018 23:20
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda/tablet is working again

 

For some reason dust gets in this keyboard and sticks to it. And my cat mr. Jennings tries  to walk on the keyboard. I have to push him away.  

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Moore
Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2018 5:26 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda/tablet is working again

 

I must be missing something here.  I have owned 3 asus transformer books, love those little things and never had to clean the connectors.

 

I guess I could see it happening though.

Brian.

Contact me on skype: brian.moore
follow me on twitter:
http://www.twitter.com/bmoore123

On 2018-12-22 1:27 p.m., molly the blind tech lover wrote:

Me too. This keyboard is frustrating. It sometimes stops working. In that case I still have the touchscreen.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2018 12:49 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda/tablet is working again

 

Yep, through my close to 30 years of me using confusers , (I was a curious little cuss at age 5) I also learned that the hard way. Lol!
Glad you got nvda working.
On 22 Dec 2018, at 9:31, molly the blind tech lover wrote:

Hey guys, Molly here again.

I hope this message doesn’t get sent twice, because last night I was frustrated and said said things I regret.

Anyway, I discovered that while nvda wasn’t talking while using the keyboard, I could still use the touchscreen. I disconnected the keyboard and cleaned it. It collects dust and crap because of the material it’s made from. Anyway, the machine works completely fine now. And our Internet is working again. As soon as I logged on Nvda wanted me to update some addons. So everything works. I really hope I don’t panic the next time something like this happens. Panicking doesn’t solve anything.  And it just makes me look stupid.


Re: How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor

David Goldfield
 

Ann,

I can well relate to this struggle with object navigation. When I first started using NVDA in 2009 I had been a user of JAWS since version 1.0. At that time, object navigation was so confusing that I felt that I had to turn my mind inside out just to get a grip on it and, for a while, I pretty much ignored the capability. I just used the standard arrow keys to navigate and was pretty content doing so.

A few things turned me around, however. First, understanding the Mac's method of interacting with windows within windows or controls within a window helped as the concepts, to me, were similar. And, while I don't want to turn this into a JAWS vs NVDA debate, the fact is that object navigation on the numeric keypad will allow you to explore certain program windows that the JAWS cursor just doesn't see, especially in Windows 10. When I was training new users in how to use NVDA I know that some of them would never have been able to deal with object navigation. However, pressing insert-7 (on the number pad) to put NVDA into flat review mode may work for a lot of people, even though this mode may not work for all windows. Within this mode and even in the standard review mode the number pad commands may be more intuitive with 7, 8 and 9 for previous, current and next line, 4, 5 and 6 for previous, current and next word and 1, 2 and 3 for previous, current and next character. This feels very comfortable for me since ASAP, a screen reader I used in the DOS days, used the same commands for its review capability.

David Goldfield, Assistive Technology Specialist WWW.David-Goldfield.Com

On 12/23/2018 11:40 AM, Ann Byrne wrote:
My most difficult issue with NVDA is understanding object view.  I struggle to move freely around the screen the way the JAWS cursor often does.





Re: How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor

Rui Fontes
 

That is simple...
Press NVDA+NumLock7 to access ScreenReview...

Rui Fontes


Às 16:40 de 23/12/2018, Ann Byrne escreveu:

My most difficult issue with NVDA is understanding object view.  I struggle to move freely around the screen the way the JAWS cursor often does.


Re: How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor

Ann Byrne
 

My most difficult issue with NVDA is understanding object view. I struggle to move freely around the screen the way the JAWS cursor often does.


Re: How different is NVDA different than Jaws?

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

What I like about NVDA is that it doesn't take up as much memory like Jaws does.

On 12/23/2018 8:15 AM, Clare Page wrote:
Hi!

The fact is, people’s feelings about voice synthesizers are always
subjective, we’re never going to all like the same ones. I happen to share
Brian’s dislike of Eloquence, so now that I don’t use JAWS my computer is an
Eloquence-free zone, but I respect the fact that others like its good
pronunciation of words and the fact that it sounds better at very high
speeds than some other synthesizers. Those who want Eloquence can get it
legally for NVDA now, so dislike of ESpeak doesn’t necessarily mean that
NVDA should be avoided these days, plus I gather that NVDA defaults to the
Windows voices on Windows 10, and there are plenty of extra voices available
for NVDA anyway.

For me, one important difference between NVDA and JAWS, which has nothing to
do with voices, is that NVDA is a much lighter program overall, without the
extras bundled with it that JAWS has, such as Research It and FS Reader:
also, NVDA is far less likely to add its own keystrokes for certain
operations as JAWS does, for example NVDA uses the native Windows keystroke
Windows+b to get to the system tray while JAWS felt the need to change that
to insert+F11. I’m not saying those things are wrong, use jaws if yu want
the alternative keystrokes and the extras I just mentioned: I personally
like the fact that NVDA is a much lighter program, and it’s totally optional
whether we use add-ons or not, whereas some parts of JAWS are there which
aren’t totally essential in a screen-reader.

The above is just my opinion, I’m not anti-JAWS, I just felt I should
mention what I consider to be advantages of NVDA which make it different
from jaws.

Bye for now!

From Clare



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: dimanche 23 décembre 2018 16:18
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws?


Are you commenting on the American or brittish voice? The Brittish voice is
terrible, obviously being programmed by people who don't speak Brittich

English and have no idea what a Brittish accent should sound like, or they
can't achieve it if they do, and the voice is given an unpleasant sound as
well. The American voice has a slight raspiness but if you speed upt the
voice to a rather fast listening speed, as a lot of people do, the raspiness
largely disappears or is reduced in how you hear it, I don't know which.


Also, Eloquence is easier to understand at fast speech rates than other
synthesizers I've heard at fast rates. And it is more accurate in word
pronunciation without adding words to a speech dictionary than any
synthesizer I've heard. It is also very responsive.


I like Brittish accents and if the Brittish voice were good, I might switch
between it and the American voice for variety and enjoyment, but its
ludicrously bad.


Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
<mailto:bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io>

Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 7:24 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws?


Putting an alternate view here. To me anything that uses Eloquence is pretty

soon either binned or the voice altered to Espeak, Daniel or some other. I
have always hated Eloquence for its lisp and nasality, though I do
understand it is supposed to be easier at fast speeds, I find completely the

opposite. This is just my view and I'm not alone, but I would not say its a

fact for everyone. I suspect it depends on how you perceive language and
lots of other things. It is a pretty old voice now though.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dang Manh Cuong" <dangmanhcuong@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 2:18 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws?


Hi Maria
Beside the info of other member, the biggest different I think is NVDA
doesn't use Eloquences as the primary speech, and this also not included in
the program. If you like, you must buy it, and install into your computer.
There is an article named switching from Jaws to NVDA. If you're about to do

that, take a look at
https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda-community/wiki/SwitchingFromJawsToNVDA
Hope that help
Cuong
----------------
Dang Manh Cuong
The Assistive technology specialist
Sao Mai Vocational and assistive center for the blind
52/22 Huynh Thien Loc St., Hoa Thanh ward, Tan Phu dist., HCM, Vietnam.
Tel: +8428 7302-4488
E-mail: info@saomaicenter.org; tech@saomaicenter.org
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/saomaicenterfortheblind
Website: http://www.trungtamsaomai.org; http://www.saomaicenter.org Mobile
/ Zalo: +84 902-572-300
E-mail: dangmanhcuong@gmail.com; cuong@saomaicenter.org
Skype name: dangmanhcuong
facebook: http://facebook.com/dangmanhcuong
Twitter: @ManhCuongTech
NVDA Certified Expert: https://certification.nvaccess.org/
----- Original Message -----
From: Maria Reyes
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 8:50 AM
Subject: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws?


How different is NVDA than Jaws? what are some differences?


Maria
blindteky@gmail.com
Want to talk all about blind technology?
Join the tech4theblind group: tech4theblind+subscribe@groups.io
Have an Apple product? Join the Apple411 group to discuss the iPhone,
iPad, and Mac. From experienced to new users.
Apple411+subscribe@groups.io













Re: How different is NVDA different than Jaws?

Clare Page <clare.page@...>
 

Hi!

The fact is, people’s feelings about voice synthesizers are always subjective, we’re never going to all like the same ones. I happen to share Brian’s dislike of Eloquence, so now that I don’t use JAWS my computer is an Eloquence-free zone, but I respect the fact that others like its good pronunciation of words and the fact that it sounds better at very high speeds than some other synthesizers. Those who want Eloquence can get it legally for NVDA now, so dislike of ESpeak doesn’t necessarily mean that NVDA should be avoided these days, plus I gather that NVDA defaults to the Windows voices on Windows 10, and there are plenty of extra voices available for NVDA anyway.

For me, one important difference between NVDA and JAWS, which has nothing to do with voices, is that NVDA is a much lighter program overall, without the extras bundled with it that JAWS has, such as Research It and FS Reader: also, NVDA is far less likely to add its own keystrokes for certain operations as JAWS does, for example NVDA uses the native Windows keystroke Windows+b to get to the system tray while JAWS felt the need to change that to insert+F11. I’m not saying those things are wrong, use jaws if yu want the alternative keystrokes and the extras I just mentioned: I personally like the fact that NVDA is a much lighter program, and it’s totally optional whether we use add-ons or not, whereas some parts of JAWS are there which aren’t totally essential in a screen-reader.

The above is just my opinion, I’m not anti-JAWS, I just felt I should mention what I consider to be advantages of NVDA which make it different from jaws.

Bye for now!

From Clare

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: dimanche 23 décembre 2018 16:18
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws?

 

Are you commenting on the American or brittish voice?  The Brittish voice is terrible, obviously being programmed by people who don't speak Brittich

English and have no idea what a Brittish accent should sound like, or they can't achieve it if they do, and the voice is given an unpleasant sound as well.  The American voice has a slight raspiness but if you speed upt the voice to a rather fast listening speed, as a lot of people do, the raspiness largely disappears or is reduced in how you hear it, I don't know which. 

 

Also, Eloquence is easier to understand at fast speech rates than other synthesizers I've heard at fast rates.  And it is more accurate in word pronunciation without adding words to a speech dictionary than any synthesizer I've heard.  It is also very responsive. 

 

I like Brittish accents and if the Brittish voice were good, I might switch between it and the American voice for variety and enjoyment, but its ludicrously bad. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 7:24 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws?

 

Putting an alternate view here. To me anything that uses Eloquence is pretty
soon either binned or the voice altered to Espeak, Daniel or some other. I
have always hated Eloquence for its lisp and nasality, though I do
understand it is supposed to be easier at fast speeds, I find completely the
opposite. This is just my view and  I'm not alone, but I would not say its a
fact for everyone. I suspect it depends on how you perceive language and
lots of other things. It is a pretty old voice now though.
 Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dang Manh Cuong" <dangmanhcuong@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 2:18 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws?


Hi Maria
Beside the info of other member, the biggest different I think is NVDA
doesn't use Eloquences as the primary speech, and this also not included in
the program. If you like, you must buy it, and install into your computer.
There is an article named switching from Jaws to NVDA. If you're about to do
that, take a look at
https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda-community/wiki/SwitchingFromJawsToNVDA
Hope that help
Cuong
----------------
Dang Manh Cuong
 The Assistive technology specialist
 Sao Mai Vocational and assistive center for the blind
52/22 Huynh Thien Loc St., Hoa Thanh ward, Tan Phu dist., HCM, Vietnam.
 Tel: +8428 7302-4488
 E-mail: info@...; tech@...
 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/saomaicenterfortheblind
 Website: http://www.trungtamsaomai.org; http://www.saomaicenter.org  Mobile
/ Zalo: +84 902-572-300
 E-mail: dangmanhcuong@...; cuong@...
 Skype name: dangmanhcuong
 facebook: http://facebook.com/dangmanhcuong
 Twitter: @ManhCuongTech
NVDA Certified Expert: https://certification.nvaccess.org/
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Maria Reyes
  To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
  Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 8:50 AM
  Subject: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws?


  How different is NVDA than Jaws? what are some differences?


  Maria
  blindteky@...
  Want to talk all about blind technology?
  Join the tech4theblind group: tech4theblind+subscribe@groups.io
  Have an Apple product? Join the Apple411 group to discuss the iPhone,
iPad, and Mac. From experienced to new users.
  Apple411+subscribe@groups.io







Re: How different is NVDA different than Jaws?

Gene
 

Are you commenting on the American or brittish voice?  The Brittish voice is terrible, obviously being programmed by people who don't speak Brittich
English and have no idea what a Brittish accent should sound like, or they can't achieve it if they do, and the voice is given an unpleasant sound as well.  The American voice has a slight raspiness but if you speed upt the voice to a rather fast listening speed, as a lot of people do, the raspiness largely disappears or is reduced in how you hear it, I don't know which. 
 
Also, Eloquence is easier to understand at fast speech rates than other synthesizers I've heard at fast rates.  And it is more accurate in word pronunciation without adding words to a speech dictionary than any synthesizer I've heard.  It is also very responsive. 
 
I like Brittish accents and if the Brittish voice were good, I might switch between it and the American voice for variety and enjoyment, but its ludicrously bad. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 7:24 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws?

Putting an alternate view here. To me anything that uses Eloquence is pretty
soon either binned or the voice altered to Espeak, Daniel or some other. I
have always hated Eloquence for its lisp and nasality, though I do
understand it is supposed to be easier at fast speeds, I find completely the
opposite. This is just my view and  I'm not alone, but I would not say its a
fact for everyone. I suspect it depends on how you perceive language and
lots of other things. It is a pretty old voice now though.
 Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dang Manh Cuong" <dangmanhcuong@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 2:18 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws?


Hi Maria
Beside the info of other member, the biggest different I think is NVDA
doesn't use Eloquences as the primary speech, and this also not included in
the program. If you like, you must buy it, and install into your computer.
There is an article named switching from Jaws to NVDA. If you're about to do
that, take a look at
https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda-community/wiki/SwitchingFromJawsToNVDA
Hope that help
Cuong
----------------
Dang Manh Cuong
 The Assistive technology specialist
 Sao Mai Vocational and assistive center for the blind
52/22 Huynh Thien Loc St., Hoa Thanh ward, Tan Phu dist., HCM, Vietnam.
 Tel: +8428 7302-4488
 E-mail: info@...; tech@...
 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/saomaicenterfortheblind
 Website: http://www.trungtamsaomai.org; http://www.saomaicenter.org  Mobile
/ Zalo: +84 902-572-300
 E-mail: dangmanhcuong@...; cuong@...
 Skype name: dangmanhcuong
 facebook: http://facebook.com/dangmanhcuong
 Twitter: @ManhCuongTech
NVDA Certified Expert: https://certification.nvaccess.org/
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Maria Reyes
  To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
  Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 8:50 AM
  Subject: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws?


  How different is NVDA than Jaws? what are some differences?


  Maria
  blindteky@...
  Want to talk all about blind technology?
  Join the tech4theblind group: tech4theblind+subscribe@groups.io
  Have an Apple product? Join the Apple411 group to discuss the iPhone,
iPad, and Mac. From experienced to new users.
  Apple411+subscribe@groups.io








Re: fore some reason nvda isn't talking when I'm using my keyboard

Gene
 

Yes, Windows uses virtual memory when there isn't enough RAM, actual physical memory to store information.  Using virtual memory is only a fallback to keep things running when RAM is full and it significantly slows down the computer.  But the majority of users have more than enough physical memory, (RAM) that they never use virtual memory, unless they are using memory intensive programs, which the majority of users don't use, or unless there is some problem such as the computer being seriously infected and malware is taking up a good deal of memory. 
 
What do you mean anything you want has to be on SSD.  Strange, I've been using physical drives and still do and I don't feel any need for an SSD.  Maybe programs might open almost instantly instead of take a second or two.  Maybe my computer would boot up very quickly.  That is no advantage to me.  I use sleep or standby or whatever my versions of windows call it when I want to have the computer almost completely off.  I can wake from sleep in two or three seconds.  I only boot my computers about once a week or ten days so that instability doesn't occur from not rebooting over too long a time.  Some people may have to do so every two or three days but my impression is that a week is enough for a lot of people, maybe a little longer. 
 
Maybe web pages would load faster but they load plenty fast now and I am not on such a tight schedule that two seconds versus half a second matters.  The surface, if this report represents the  general performance of the Surface models, indicates that they are unreasonably slow.  The Surface, in that case, doesn't represent reasonably fast computers with physical hard drives.  If I buy a computer with an SSD, fine.  But I'm not going to spend money and take time to replace my current drives for what I consider to be no meaningful advantage for how I use the computer.
 
If I were doing something where disk access could really slow down the task, like a lot of file conversions and I did these sorts of tasks often, SSD might really save some time.  But for a lot of people, the time saved isn't worth worrying about if things like using sleep are done.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----

Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 4:44 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] fore some reason nvda isn't talking when I'm using my keyboard

No indeed, and it has mostly been the case with windows over the years, as
it always has used what it calls virtual memory, ie hard disc space.
 I only use hard drives for backups and storage of non time critical stuff.
anything you want now has to be on ssd.

Indeed there is one very fast old computer with a normal drive here, anan
ancient dell laptop on xp. It has however got a small drive and hence not a
lot of stuff on it.
 Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Tyler Wood" <tcwood12@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2018 11:31 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] fore some reason nvda isn't talking when I'm using my
keyboard


> What world is that in? lol. Unless you're referring to the surface pro 6,
> then it is about on parr with other laptops with solid state storage.
>
>
> I mean, unless you want to go with a 1 tb spinning hard drive and in 2018,
> that's a hard sell.
>
>
> I was using a computer recently that had a core i7-7820HQ (that's a quad
> core processor with 8 threads). It had a mechanical 1 terabyte hard drive,
> and it was made last year.
>
>
> Browsing the web was so much slower than on a machine with a solid state
> drive. It shouldn't be - after all the web browser was already loaded -
> but it was truly painful. Restarting was just about as painful, to. Even
> comparing this to a cheap windows device with a solid state drive - even
> EMMC storage - and I truthfully can't recommend a mechanical hard drive
> these days. And I'm not even getting into general performance. Moving
> around the screen was painfully slow. Opening apps took far longer than a
> machine with a hard drive, even 4 or 5 years ago, used to. I'm not sure if
> it was the screen reader making performance that much worse, but it was
> similar to using a computer, back in the day, that had 256 mb of ram and
> ran windows xp. Browsing the web, while doable, was probably my biggest
> issue.
>
>
> So, yes, while the surface go is relatively expensive when you increase
> the storage space, it comes with the benefit of having a solid state
> drive. In todays day and age, we think windows 10 is very light on
> resources. It most assuredly is not.
>
> On 2018-12-22 4:29 p.m., Shaun Everiss wrote:
>> Yeah and I was seriously going to buy one at one point.
>>
>> Not anymore, they cost more than standard laptops to get one with a lot
>> of space.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 12/23/2018 10:33 AM, molly the blind tech lover wrote:
>>> It sucks that these surface devices have these issues.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's
>>> Mail
>>> list account via Groups.Io
>>> Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2018 3:53 AM
>>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>> Subject: Re: [nvda] fore some reason nvda isn't talking when I'm using
>>> my
>>> keyboard
>>>
>>> Oh there will be...
>>>
>>> 1. Press and hold the power button until the screen turns off (about 10
>>> seconds), then release the power button.
>>> 2. Press and release the power button to turn your Surface back on. You
>>> should see the Microsoft logo.
>>> If that doesn't work, use this shutdown process to make sure your
>>> Surface
>>> completely turns off. Here's how:
>>> Press and hold down the power button until your Surface restarts and you
>>> see
>>> the Windows logo screen (this takes about 20 seconds), then release the
>>> power button.
>>> Surface Book, Surface Pro 4, Surface Pro 3, Surface Pro 2, and Surface
>>> Pro
>>> 1. Press and hold the power button for a full 10 seconds, until the
>>> screen
>>> turns off, then release the power button.
>>> Note
>>> On some Surface models, the screen may immediately turn off when
>>> pressing
>>> the power button. If this happens, continue to hold for the full 10
>>> seconds
>>> and then release.
>>> 2. Press and release the power button to turn your Surface back on. You
>>> should see the Surface logo.
>>> If that doesn't work, use this two-button shutdown process to make sure
>>> your
>>> Surface completely turns off. Here's how:
>>> 1. Press and hold the power button on your Surface for 30 seconds and
>>> then
>>> release it.
>>> 2.
>>> Press and hold the volume-up button and the power button at the same
>>> time
>>> for at least 15 seconds and then release both.
>>> The screen may flash the Surface logo, but continue holding the buttons
>>> down
>>> for at least 15 seconds.
>>> 3. After you release the buttons, wait 10 seconds.
>>> 4. Press and release the power button to turn your Surface back on. You
>>> should see the Surface logo.
>>> Surface 3, Surface 2, and Surface RT
>>> 1. Press and hold the power button for a full 10 seconds, until the
>>> screen
>>> turns off, then release the power button.
>>> Note
>>> On some Surface models, the screen may immediately turn off when
>>> pressing
>>> the power button. If this happens, continue to hold for the full 10
>>> seconds
>>> and then release.
>>> 2. Press and release the power button to turn your Surface back on. You
>>> should see the Surface logo.
>>> bglists@...
>>> Sent via blueyonder.
>>> Please address personal E-mail to:-
>>> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
>>> in the display name field.
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "molly the blind tech lover" <brainardmolly@...>
>>> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>> Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2018 1:06 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nvda] fore some reason nvda isn't talking when I'm using
>>> my
>>> keyboard
>>>
>>>
>>> There is no way to manually force this Microsoft surface tablet to shut
>>> down. I guess I'll have to go to the Microsoft store. Maybe they can fix
>>> it.
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tyler
>>> Spivey
>>> Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 7:39 PM
>>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>> Subject: Re: [nvda] fore some reason nvda isn't talking when I'm using
>>> my
>>> keyboard
>>>
>>> Don't be too discouraged, breaking things is quite normal.
>>>
>>> If this is a tablet with a separate keyboard, maybe Bluetooth was turned
>>> off, the batteries died or the keyboard was turned off. Tab should at
>>> least
>>> do something, or pressing any other key should interrupt NVDA from
>>> speaking.
>>> If nothing happens even after reboot, we can figure it out from there.
>>>
>>> Here's how to power off your tablet.
>>> 1. Try pressing the power button. If that doesn't start the process,
>>> maybe
>>> things aren't set up to work that way, or something is preventing it
>>> from
>>> working.
>>> 2. The next thing to try would be a hard power off. This depends on the
>>> machine, but generally holding power for at least 5 seconds will do it.
>>> This doesn't give Windows a chance to shut down properly and save your
>>> work,
>>> so I generally only do this if I can't easily shut it down any other
>>> way.
>>> After that, just power it on normally.
>>>
>>> On 12/21/2018 4:19 PM, molly the blind tech lover wrote:
>>>> Hey guys, Molly here again.
>>>>
>>>> I don't know what happened but all of a sudden my keyboard on my
>>>> tablet doesn't seem to work with nvda. I press a key, like the windows
>>>> key, and nvda is completely silent. It is silent when I press any key
>>>> on the keyboard. The only way nvda talks is if I use the mouse.
>>>>
>>>> I don't know what I did, but I am so stupid. I am just too dumb to
>>>> ever be a good nvda user. Is there a way to force the machine to
>>>> restart? I am feeling completely incompetent.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>




Re: How different is NVDA different than Jaws?

Antony Stone
 

What is the relevance of that?

The owners of the software repository used by the developers of the software
have nothing to do with the licence under which the software is released.

Microsoft cannot change the licence of NVDA, even if they do own the
repository its source code is developed on.


Antony.

On Sunday 23 December 2018 at 14:25:34, Brian wrote:

However Github is now owned by Microsoft.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Sky Mundell" <skyt@shaw.ca>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 2:39 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws?


Hello Maria. As other’s has said, JAWS isn’t free, whereas NVDA is free to
use, however, if you like it, you can donate to the product. Obviously the
developers has got to make money to keep it going, otherwise if it was free
but with no way’s to donate, it would go under. Also, its Open Source, and
it cannot be taken over by a for profit company. And we’ve seem one such
company buying up all its competitors. No way is NVDA going to be swallowed
up or anything like that. This is the major difference between a non-profit
and a for profit company.
--
Users don't know what they want until they see what they get.

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.


Re: How different is NVDA different than Jaws?

 

Not counting the price, something others have already mentioned, the
primary difference for me is that NVDA covers many more languages than
JAWS and this comes from the fact that the former is open source and
the latter is not.
Nevzat

On 12/23/18, Monte Single <mrsingle@sasktel.net> wrote:
What is github?

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian's
Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: December-23-18 7:26 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws?

However Github is now owned by Microsoft.
Brian

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Sent via blueyonder.
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Sky Mundell" <skyt@shaw.ca>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 2:39 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws?


Hello Maria. As other’s has said, JAWS isn’t free, whereas NVDA is free to
use, however, if you like it, you can donate to the product. Obviously the
developers has got to make money to keep it going, otherwise if it was free

but with no way’s to donate, it would go under. Also, its Open Source, and
it cannot be taken over by a for profit company. And we’ve seem one such
company buying up all its competitors. No way is NVDA going to be swallowed

up or anything like that. This is the major difference between a non-profit

and a for profit company.



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Maria
Reyes
Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2018 5:51 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws?



How different is NVDA than Jaws? what are some differences?

Maria

blindteky@gmail.com

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Join the tech4theblind group: tech4theblind+subscribe@groups.io

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and Mac. From experienced to new users.

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Re: How different is NVDA different than Jaws?

Antony Stone
 

Github is a very widely-used software repository based on the collaborative
development and version control system called git.

A simple Google (or other search engine if you prefer) search will reveal lots
of information if you want to know more.

Regards,


Antony.

On Sunday 23 December 2018 at 15:23:40, Monte Single wrote:

What is github?
--
Most people are aware that the Universe is big.

- Paul Davies, Professor of Theoretical Physics

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.


Re: RES: [nvda] fore some reason nvda isn't talking when I'm using my keyboard

Gene
 

Even if it does, it will never work as written.  You wrote NDA.  Would people please check commands after they write them to be sure they are correct?  Careless sloppy writing is considered normal these days, in this era when when how you write is considered to have no value and there are no standards.  But people should at least make sure that commands are correctly written.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 3:29 AM
Subject: RES: [nvda] fore some reason nvda isn't talking when I'm using my keyboard

Whenever you lose control of NVDA, try to restart it by pressing windows + r and typing nda -r.

Usually it Works here.

Best regards!

Daniel Damacena Bezerra

 

De: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Em nome de molly the blind tech lover
Enviada em: sábado, 22 de dezembro de 2018 22:48
Para: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Assunto: Re: [nvda] fore some reason nvda isn't talking when I'm using my keyboard

 

Hi. I tried to restart nvda by pressing control alt n. Nothing happened. I was able to unlock the screen. But when I tried to use the touchscreen, all nvda said was system submenu, contains commands to manipulate the window. I have no idea what screen I’m in.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of marcio via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 7:30 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] fore some reason nvda isn't talking when I'm using my keyboard

 

I forgot to mention, before restarting your system unnecessarily, it's always good trying to restart NVDA itself and see what happens.

 


Cheers,
Marcio


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Em 21/12/2018 22:27, marcio via Groups.Io escreveu:

Hey, first, don't worry. This how computers work, I guess. Sometimes it just runs out of our control, but there's always a solution whatever your problem is.
Considering you said that no keys are being interpreted by NVDA, it would be like shoot in the dark, but you can try:
Windows+R
Type "shutdown -r" (without the quotes).
It will restart your system, I guess.
Hope this helps and please let me know if so.
P.S.: Don't give up on NVDA, I'm sure you'll be able to deal with it through the time.

 


Cheers,
Marcio


Where to find me:
My Yahoo! email
Add me on Skype
Follow me on Twitter
Follow or add me on Facebook
Ask me something on CuriousCat


Phone(s):
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My WhatsApp


Em 21/12/2018 22:19, molly the blind tech lover escreveu:

Hey guys, Molly here again.

I don�t know what happened but all of a sudden my keyboard on my tablet doesn�t seem to work with nvda. I press a key, like the windows key, and nvda is completely silent. It is silent when I press any key on the keyboard. �The only way �nvda talks �is if I use the mouse.

I don�t know what I did, but I am so stupid. I am just too dumb to ever be a good nvda user. Is there a way to force the machine to restart? I am feeling completely incompetent.

 

 


Re: How different is NVDA different than Jaws?

Monte Single
 

What is github?

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: December-23-18 7:26 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws?

However Github is now owned by Microsoft.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Sky Mundell" <skyt@shaw.ca>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 2:39 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws?


Hello Maria. As other’s has said, JAWS isn’t free, whereas NVDA is free to
use, however, if you like it, you can donate to the product. Obviously the
developers has got to make money to keep it going, otherwise if it was free
but with no way’s to donate, it would go under. Also, its Open Source, and
it cannot be taken over by a for profit company. And we’ve seem one such
company buying up all its competitors. No way is NVDA going to be swallowed
up or anything like that. This is the major difference between a non-profit
and a for profit company.



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Maria
Reyes
Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2018 5:51 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws?



How different is NVDA than Jaws? what are some differences?

Maria

blindteky@gmail.com

Want to talk all about blind technology?

Join the tech4theblind group: tech4theblind+subscribe@groups.io

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and Mac. From experienced to new users.

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Re: I got my tablet working again

 

Hi Molly, glad you got your tablit working!

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of molly the blind tech lover
Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2018 3:48 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] I got my tablet working again

 

Hey guys, molly here again.

I finally got my tablet/nvda working again. From the lock screen, I clicked on the power option, and thank god. The machine restarted itself. Nvda immediately turned on, and just to be sure, I exited and restarted nvda about five times. Okay, not that many.

I don’t know what the problem was to begin with, but I am glad I don’t have to take the machine to the Microsoft store. I’ll try not to panic the next time something like this happens. I am really sorry, you guys, that I freaked out like that. I am going to work really hard at becoming competent nvda user. It’s my goal.


Re: How different is NVDA different than Jaws?

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Well some corporate do give them money as well. I usually send them a donation when a new version comes out. It does not need to be a big donation.


I will be doing another one in the new year.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
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----- Original Message -----
From: "molly the blind tech lover" <brainardmolly@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 4:12 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws?


I wish I had the means to donate. I always feel so guilty. The developers of Nvda are truly lovely people. They’ve changed millions of lives with Nvda. That’s something to be proud of.



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of hurrikennyandopo ...
Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2018 10:44 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws?



Hi



as mentioned the price how ever the project does ask for donations if you can to keep this worthy project going.



You are also not limited to the amount of copies you have on a home network or even bigger like what has just been installed to the Christchurch city library network they just installed 390 copies to there public terminals for the public to use.

It will not time out after 30 or 40 minutes then you have to reboot the computer.



the default voice for a windows 10 machine now is windows one core voices but below that is E speak voices. You can also buy synth packages for nvda or use free ones.



The FAQ link that has been provided by a couple of users will give you a run down of some of the differences between jaws and nvda.



You do not have to buy upgrades and again if people can they can donate to the project no matter how small it is it all counts.

They update or do a release 4 times a year so the fixes are pretty quick to be fixed.



The best thing to do is take it for a test drive.







Gene nz



On 23/12/2018 2:50 PM, Maria Reyes wrote:

How different is NVDA than Jaws? what are some differences?

Maria

blindteky@gmail.com <mailto:blindteky@gmail.com>

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Join the tech4theblind group: tech4theblind+subscribe@groups.io <mailto:tech4theblind+subscribe@groups.io>

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--


Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.


Re: How different is NVDA different than Jaws?

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

However Github is now owned by Microsoft.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Sky Mundell" <skyt@shaw.ca>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 2:39 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws?


Hello Maria. As other’s has said, JAWS isn’t free, whereas NVDA is free to use, however, if you like it, you can donate to the product. Obviously the developers has got to make money to keep it going, otherwise if it was free but with no way’s to donate, it would go under. Also, its Open Source, and it cannot be taken over by a for profit company. And we’ve seem one such company buying up all its competitors. No way is NVDA going to be swallowed up or anything like that. This is the major difference between a non-profit and a for profit company.



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Maria Reyes
Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2018 5:51 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws?



How different is NVDA than Jaws? what are some differences?

Maria

blindteky@gmail.com

Want to talk all about blind technology?

Join the tech4theblind group: tech4theblind+subscribe@groups.io

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Re: How different is NVDA different than Jaws?

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Putting an alternate view here. To me anything that uses Eloquence is pretty soon either binned or the voice altered to Espeak, Daniel or some other. I have always hated Eloquence for its lisp and nasality, though I do understand it is supposed to be easier at fast speeds, I find completely the opposite. This is just my view and I'm not alone, but I would not say its a fact for everyone. I suspect it depends on how you perceive language and lots of other things. It is a pretty old voice now though.
Brian

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Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Dang Manh Cuong" <dangmanhcuong@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 2:18 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws?


Hi Maria
Beside the info of other member, the biggest different I think is NVDA doesn't use Eloquences as the primary speech, and this also not included in the program. If you like, you must buy it, and install into your computer. There is an article named switching from Jaws to NVDA. If you're about to do that, take a look at https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda-community/wiki/SwitchingFromJawsToNVDA
Hope that help
Cuong
----------------
Dang Manh Cuong
The Assistive technology specialist
Sao Mai Vocational and assistive center for the blind
52/22 Huynh Thien Loc St., Hoa Thanh ward, Tan Phu dist., HCM, Vietnam.
Tel: +8428 7302-4488
E-mail: info@saomaicenter.org; tech@saomaicenter.org
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/saomaicenterfortheblind
Website: http://www.trungtamsaomai.org; http://www.saomaicenter.org Mobile
/ Zalo: +84 902-572-300
E-mail: dangmanhcuong@gmail.com; cuong@saomaicenter.org
Skype name: dangmanhcuong
facebook: http://facebook.com/dangmanhcuong
Twitter: @ManhCuongTech
NVDA Certified Expert: https://certification.nvaccess.org/
----- Original Message -----
From: Maria Reyes
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 8:50 AM
Subject: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws?


How different is NVDA than Jaws? what are some differences?


Maria
blindteky@gmail.com
Want to talk all about blind technology?
Join the tech4theblind group: tech4theblind+subscribe@groups.io
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Re: How different is NVDA different than Jaws?

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Yes but the thing is any portable version of a screenreader is stuck since it cannot hook in to all the interfaces anyway.
I seem to recall Joseph wrote a piece on this with regard to web browser engines and how they are made accessible. It is true that for any installed system Jaws, in theory, should be better off if you can design the script to get at the video directly much as they had to in the old days.

I personally think it is a scandal that software writers still create inaccessible software by writing it without the right toolkit included.


It should be a ground up decision but as we have seen things like Skype desktop nearly always broke one thing when fixing another.
as a matter of interest, how does Zoom fai with nvda?
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "molly the blind tech lover" <brainardmolly@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 2:58 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws?


I've heard that Nvda does not have those video intercept. I think it hooks in to the operating system using the Microsoft accessibility
API, and if an application doesn't support those API's, then Nvda won't work with the app. I read it online, but can't remember where.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ian Blackburn
Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2018 9:51 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws?

The original question was on the difference between Jaws and nvda The differences from my point of you include some keyboard layout differences But the main one I think relates to the use of a Mira driver which jaws uses for the video It used to be called a video intercept this is one of the reasons that you have to reboot your computer after you’ve installed jaws to get that video mirror or whatever they call it now working The other thing is that jaws tends to hold the hand of the use of more And actually provides keystrokes for windows functions that the user would be better off using Windows keys for They also sort of adding these research facilities and all sorts of other weird things into jaws There’s also a lot of legacy things connected with the jaws software From a purely design perspective nvda would be better designed from my point of you than jaws Regards Ian On 23 Dec 2018, at 10:45 am, molly the blind tech lover <brainardmolly@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi. I spend hours on my tablet and my laptop using nvda to browse the web, check email, watch Netflix, do homework, etc. I love nvda. It's the best screen reading software I've ever used. Although, I do have Jaws on my laptop and like to use it occasionally. Especially for reading my textbooks. For everything else I use Nvda.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Don H
Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2018 9:18 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws?

Having been a Window Eyes user for many years I found it easier to switch to NVDA versus Jaws. I have both on my system but use Jaws very little. For what I do which is mostly surfing the net and Email NVDA does really well.

On 12/22/2018 7:50 PM, Maria Reyes wrote:
How different is NVDA than Jaws? what are some differences?

Maria
blindteky@gmail.com <mailto:blindteky@gmail.com> Want to talk all
about blind technology?
Join the tech4theblind group: tech4theblind+subscribe@groups.io
<mailto:tech4theblind+subscribe@groups.io>
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Re: How different is NVDA different than Jaws?

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Yes this is true of course, buut sometimes at least with windows 10, nvda is not any more able to work as a portable than jaws is, as if it has no video driver, it too is crippled by uia issues that do not have to be used if using a video screen scraping system like they have in jaws.
I guess nvda could add such a driver, it was discussed at length many years ago now, but was decided against due to wanting it to be portable. Unfortunately with Microsoft deciding that security overrides accessibility for portable screenreaders everyone is in trouble now.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian Blackburn" <ianblackburn@westnet.com.au>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 2:50 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws?


The original question was on the difference between Jaws and nvda
The differences from my point of you include some keyboard layout differences
But the main one I think relates to the use of a Mira driver which jaws uses for the video
It used to be called a video intercept this is one of the reasons that you have to reboot your computer after you’ve installed jaws to get that video mirror or whatever they call it now working
The other thing is that jaws tends to hold the hand of the use of more
And actually provides keystrokes for windows functions that the user would be better off using Windows keys for
They also sort of adding these research facilities and all sorts of other weird things into jaws
There’s also a lot of legacy things connected with the jaws software
From a purely design perspective nvda would be better designed from my point of you than jaws
Regards Ian
On 23 Dec 2018, at 10:45 am, molly the blind tech lover <brainardmolly@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi. I spend hours on my tablet and my laptop using nvda to browse the web, check email, watch Netflix, do homework, etc. I love nvda. It's the best screen reading software I've ever used. Although, I do have Jaws on my laptop and like to use it occasionally. Especially for reading my textbooks. For everything else I use Nvda.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Don H
Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2018 9:18 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws?

Having been a Window Eyes user for many years I found it easier to switch to NVDA versus Jaws. I have both on my system but use Jaws very little. For what I do which is mostly surfing the net and Email NVDA does really well.

On 12/22/2018 7:50 PM, Maria Reyes wrote:
How different is NVDA than Jaws? what are some differences?

Maria
blindteky@gmail.com <mailto:blindteky@gmail.com> Want to talk all
about blind technology?
Join the tech4theblind group: tech4theblind+subscribe@groups.io
<mailto:tech4theblind+subscribe@groups.io>
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