Date   

Re: NVDA not exiting with current version under windows 7 64 bit

john farina <farina1952@...>
 

Hi Rui,

Thanks for the tip. I got the driver updated but now there seems to be a problem with the vocalizer license credentials. I have what I thought I needed but now need to track down the password I guess.



On Dec 22, 2018, at 2:48 PM, Rui Fontes <rui.fontes@...> wrote:

Rui


Re: How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor

Gene
 

JAWS has another navigation method now.  I’m not sure what it is called.  It can probably see all the things you don’t see when using the JAWS cursor. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 10:50 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor
 

Ann,

I can well relate to this struggle with object navigation. When I first started using NVDA in 2009 I had been a user of JAWS since version 1.0. At that time, object navigation was so confusing that I felt that I had to turn my mind inside out just to get a grip on it and, for a while, I pretty much ignored the capability. I just used the standard arrow keys to navigate and was pretty content doing so.

A few things turned me around, however. First, understanding the Mac's method of interacting with windows within windows or controls within a window helped as the concepts, to me, were similar. And, while I don't want to turn this into a JAWS vs NVDA debate, the fact is that object navigation on the numeric keypad will allow you to explore certain program windows that the JAWS cursor just doesn't see, especially in Windows 10. When I was training new users in how to use NVDA I know that some of them would never have been able to deal with object navigation. However, pressing insert-7 (on the number pad) to put NVDA into flat review mode may work for a lot of people, even though this mode may not work for all windows. Within this mode and even in the standard review mode the number pad commands may be more intuitive with 7, 8 and 9 for previous, current and next line, 4, 5 and 6 for previous, current and next word and 1, 2 and 3 for previous, current and next character. This feels very comfortable for me since ASAP, a screen reader I used in the DOS days, used the same commands for its review capability.

David Goldfield, Assistive Technology Specialist WWW.David-Goldfield.Com
On 12/23/2018 11:40 AM, Ann Byrne wrote:
My most difficult issue with NVDA is understanding object view.  I struggle to move freely around the screen the way the JAWS cursor often does.





Re: How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor

Gene
 

If you do that, then after you use it, Press NVDA key 1 to return to objecgt review.  If you don’t do this, some ways you move around the screen won’t work correctly. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Rui Fontes
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 10:45 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor
 
That is simple...
Press NVDA+NumLock7 to access ScreenReview...

Rui Fontes


Às 16:40 de 23/12/2018, Ann Byrne escreveu:
> My most difficult issue with NVDA is understanding object view.  I
> struggle to move freely around the screen the way the JAWS cursor often
> does.
>
>
>
>
>



Re: How different is NVDA different than Jaws?

Gene
 

JAWS doesn’t take up more memory than NVDA.  A lot of the memory taken up by screen-readers is actually used by the newer voices, not the screen-reader.  If used with Eloquence or E-Speak or other older synthesizers, JAWS probably actually takes up less memory than NVDA used with the same synthesizer.  It isn’t enough difference to matter but NVDA does take more memory because Python (spelling) takes more memory.
 
Gene

------ Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 10:20 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws?
 
What I like about NVDA is that it doesn't take up as much memory like
Jaws does.



On 12/23/2018 8:15 AM, Clare Page wrote:
> Hi!
>
> The fact is, people’s feelings about voice synthesizers are always
> subjective, we’re never going to all like the same ones. I happen to share
> Brian’s dislike of Eloquence, so now that I don’t use JAWS my computer is an
> Eloquence-free zone, but I respect the fact that others like its good
> pronunciation of words and the fact that it sounds better at very high
> speeds than some other synthesizers. Those who want Eloquence can get it
> legally for NVDA now, so dislike of ESpeak doesn’t necessarily mean that
> NVDA should be avoided these days, plus I gather that NVDA defaults to the
> Windows voices on Windows 10, and there are plenty of extra voices available
> for NVDA anyway.
>
> For me, one important difference between NVDA and JAWS, which has nothing to
> do with voices, is that NVDA is a much lighter program overall, without the
> extras bundled with it that JAWS has, such as Research It and FS Reader:
> also, NVDA is far less likely to add its own keystrokes for certain
> operations as JAWS does, for example NVDA uses the native Windows keystroke
> Windows+b to get to the system tray while JAWS felt the need to change that
> to insert+F11. I’m not saying those things are wrong, use jaws if yu want
> the alternative keystrokes and the extras I just mentioned: I personally
> like the fact that NVDA is a much lighter program, and it’s totally optional
> whether we use add-ons or not, whereas some parts of JAWS are there which
> aren’t totally essential in a screen-reader.
>
> The above is just my opinion, I’m not anti-JAWS, I just felt I should
> mention what I consider to be advantages of NVDA which make it different
> from jaws.
>
> Bye for now!
>
>  From Clare
>
>  
>
>  
>
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
> Sent: dimanche 23 décembre 2018 16:18
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws?
>
>  
>
> Are you commenting on the American or brittish voice?  The Brittish voice is
> terrible, obviously being programmed by people who don't speak Brittich
>
> English and have no idea what a Brittish accent should sound like, or they
> can't achieve it if they do, and the voice is given an unpleasant sound as
> well.  The American voice has a slight raspiness but if you speed upt the
> voice to a rather fast listening speed, as a lot of people do, the raspiness
> largely disappears or is reduced in how you hear it, I don't know which.
>
>  
>
> Also, Eloquence is easier to understand at fast speech rates than other
> synthesizers I've heard at fast rates.  And it is more accurate in word
> pronunciation without adding words to a speech dictionary than any
> synthesizer I've heard.  It is also very responsive.
>
>  
>
> I like Brittish accents and if the Brittish voice were good, I might switch
> between it and the American voice for variety and enjoyment, but its
> ludicrously bad.
>
>  
>
> Gene
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
> <mailto:bglists@...>
>
> Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 7:24 AM
>
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>
> Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws?
>
>  
>
> Putting an alternate view here. To me anything that uses Eloquence is pretty
>
> soon either binned or the voice altered to Espeak, Daniel or some other. I
> have always hated Eloquence for its lisp and nasality, though I do
> understand it is supposed to be easier at fast speeds, I find completely the
>
> opposite. This is just my view and  I'm not alone, but I would not say its a
>
> fact for everyone. I suspect it depends on how you perceive language and
> lots of other things. It is a pretty old voice now though.
>   Brian
>
> bglists@...
> Sent via blueyonder.
> Please address personal E-mail to:-
> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
> in the display name field.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dang Manh Cuong" <dangmanhcuong@...>
> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 2:18 AM
> Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws?
>
>
> Hi Maria
> Beside the info of other member, the biggest different I think is NVDA
> doesn't use Eloquences as the primary speech, and this also not included in
> the program. If you like, you must buy it, and install into your computer.
> There is an article named switching from Jaws to NVDA. If you're about to do
>
> that, take a look at
> https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda-community/wiki/SwitchingFromJawsToNVDA
> Hope that help
> Cuong
> ----------------
> Dang Manh Cuong
>   The Assistive technology specialist
>   Sao Mai Vocational and assistive center for the blind
> 52/22 Huynh Thien Loc St., Hoa Thanh ward, Tan Phu dist., HCM, Vietnam.
>   Tel: +8428 7302-4488
>   E-mail: info@...; tech@...
>   Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/saomaicenterfortheblind
>   Website: http://www.trungtamsaomai.org; http://www.saomaicenter.org  Mobile
> / Zalo: +84 902-572-300
>   E-mail: dangmanhcuong@...; cuong@...
>   Skype name: dangmanhcuong
>   facebook: http://facebook.com/dangmanhcuong
>   Twitter: @ManhCuongTech
> NVDA Certified Expert: https://certification.nvaccess.org/
>    ----- Original Message -----
>    From: Maria Reyes
>    To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>    Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 8:50 AM
>    Subject: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws?
>
>
>    How different is NVDA than Jaws? what are some differences?
>
>
>    Maria
>    blindteky@...
>    Want to talk all about blind technology?
>    Join the tech4theblind group: tech4theblind+subscribe@groups.io
>    Have an Apple product? Join the Apple411 group to discuss the iPhone,
> iPad, and Mac. From experienced to new users.
>    Apple411+subscribe@groups.io
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>



Re: fore some reason nvda isn't talking when I'm using my keyboard

Tyler Wood
 

I have things backed up to multiple hard drives and off-site.


I have a solid state drive in one of my computers that is over 6 years old. During that time, I have had 4 hard drives fail spectacularly. Not that this is truly representative of how hard drives compare with solid state, but the key thing to know, and take into consideration, is how much your data is worth to you. I often tell people that one external isn't enough. Make it two, just in case, especially if your data means a lot to you.

On 2018-12-23 4:44 a.m., Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
No indeed, and it has mostly been the case with windows over the years, as it always has used what it calls virtual memory, ie hard disc space.
I only use hard drives for backups and storage of non time critical stuff. anything you want now has to be on ssd.

Indeed there is one very fast old computer with a normal drive here, anan ancient dell laptop on xp. It has however got a small drive and hence not a lot of stuff on it.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Tyler Wood" <tcwood12@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2018 11:31 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] fore some reason nvda isn't talking when I'm using my keyboard


What world is that in? lol. Unless you're referring to the surface pro 6, then it is about on parr with other laptops with solid state storage.


I mean, unless you want to go with a 1 tb spinning hard drive and in 2018, that's a hard sell.


I was using a computer recently that had a core i7-7820HQ (that's a quad core processor with 8 threads). It had a mechanical 1 terabyte hard drive, and it was made last year.


Browsing the web was so much slower than on a machine with a solid state drive. It shouldn't be - after all the web browser was already loaded - but it was truly painful. Restarting was just about as painful, to. Even comparing this to a cheap windows device with a solid state drive - even EMMC storage - and I truthfully can't recommend a mechanical hard drive these days. And I'm not even getting into general performance. Moving around the screen was painfully slow. Opening apps took far longer than a machine with a hard drive, even 4 or 5 years ago, used to. I'm not sure if it was the screen reader making performance that much worse, but it was similar to using a computer, back in the day, that had 256 mb of ram and ran windows xp. Browsing the web, while doable, was probably my biggest issue.


So, yes, while the surface go is relatively expensive when you increase the storage space, it comes with the benefit of having a solid state drive. In todays day and age, we think windows 10 is very light on resources. It most assuredly is not.

On 2018-12-22 4:29 p.m., Shaun Everiss wrote:
Yeah and I was seriously going to buy one at one point.

Not anymore, they cost more than standard laptops to get one with a lot of space.



On 12/23/2018 10:33 AM, molly the blind tech lover wrote:
It sucks that these surface devices have these issues.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail
list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2018 3:53 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] fore some reason nvda isn't talking when I'm using my
keyboard

Oh there will be...

1. Press and hold the power button until the screen turns off (about 10
seconds), then release the power button.
2. Press and release the power button to turn your Surface back on. You
should see the Microsoft logo.
If that doesn't work, use this shutdown process to make sure your Surface
completely turns off. Here's how:
Press and hold down the power button until your Surface restarts and you see
the Windows logo screen (this takes about 20 seconds), then release the
power button.
Surface Book, Surface Pro 4, Surface Pro 3, Surface Pro 2, and Surface Pro
1. Press and hold the power button for a full 10 seconds, until the screen
turns off, then release the power button.
Note
On some Surface models, the screen may immediately turn off when pressing
the power button. If this happens, continue to hold for the full 10 seconds
and then release.
2. Press and release the power button to turn your Surface back on. You
should see the Surface logo.
If that doesn't work, use this two-button shutdown process to make sure your
Surface completely turns off. Here's how:
1. Press and hold the power button on your Surface for 30 seconds and then
release it.
2.
Press and hold the volume-up button and the power button at the same time
for at least 15 seconds and then release both.
The screen may flash the Surface logo, but continue holding the buttons down
for at least 15 seconds.
3. After you release the buttons, wait 10 seconds.
4. Press and release the power button to turn your Surface back on. You
should see the Surface logo.
Surface 3, Surface 2, and Surface RT
1. Press and hold the power button for a full 10 seconds, until the screen
turns off, then release the power button.
Note
On some Surface models, the screen may immediately turn off when pressing
the power button. If this happens, continue to hold for the full 10 seconds
and then release.
2. Press and release the power button to turn your Surface back on. You
should see the Surface logo.
bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "molly the blind tech lover" <brainardmolly@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2018 1:06 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] fore some reason nvda isn't talking when I'm using my
keyboard


There is no way to manually force this Microsoft surface tablet to shut
down. I guess I'll have to go to the Microsoft store. Maybe they can fix it.


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tyler Spivey
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 7:39 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] fore some reason nvda isn't talking when I'm using my
keyboard

Don't be too discouraged, breaking things is quite normal.

If this is a tablet with a separate keyboard, maybe Bluetooth was turned
off, the batteries died or the keyboard was turned off. Tab should at least
do something, or pressing any other key should interrupt NVDA from speaking.
If nothing happens even after reboot, we can figure it out from there.

Here's how to power off your tablet.
1. Try pressing the power button. If that doesn't start the process, maybe
things aren't set up to work that way, or something is preventing it from
working.
2. The next thing to try would be a hard power off. This depends on the
machine, but generally holding power for at least 5 seconds will do it.
This doesn't give Windows a chance to shut down properly and save your work,
so I generally only do this if I can't easily shut it down any other way.
After that, just power it on normally.

On 12/21/2018 4:19 PM, molly the blind tech lover wrote:
Hey guys, Molly here again.

I don't know what happened but all of a sudden my keyboard on my
tablet doesn't seem to work with nvda. I press a key, like the windows
key, and nvda is completely silent. It is silent when I press any key
on the keyboard. The only way nvda talks is if I use the mouse.

I don't know what I did, but I am so stupid. I am just too dumb to
ever be a good nvda user. Is there a way to force the machine to
restart? I am feeling completely incompetent.

















Re: How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor

 

Hi,
In order to understand how object navigation works, it is helpful to get an overview of how things are laid out on screen. Effectively, when you use this mode, you're navigating in and out of various controls on screen (hierarchy, if you will).
I'll wait for more requests before writing a slightly more thorough tutorial on object navigation (I think I did this before, but can't remember quite well at the moment due to volume of changes since than and in the midst of preparing for Christmas festivities).
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brice Mijares
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 9:17 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor

I'd surely appreciate that. I too have a problem understanding Object navigation as I was a 18 year user of Window Eyes. Thank You.

On 12/23/2018 8:58 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi,

If people want, I’m willing to “transcribe” object navigation portion
of my tutorial series or do a more thorough write up.

Cheers,

Joseph

*From:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> *On Behalf Of *David
Goldfield
*Sent:* Sunday, December 23, 2018 8:50 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ...
JAWS cursor

Ann,

I can well relate to this struggle with object navigation. When I
first started using NVDA in 2009 I had been a user of JAWS since version 1.0.
At that time, object navigation was so confusing that I felt that I
had to turn my mind inside out just to get a grip on it and, for a
while, I pretty much ignored the capability. I just used the standard
arrow keys to navigate and was pretty content doing so.

A few things turned me around, however. First, understanding the Mac's
method of interacting with windows within windows or controls within a
window helped as the concepts, to me, were similar. And, while I don't
want to turn this into a JAWS vs NVDA debate, the fact is that object
navigation on the numeric keypad will allow you to explore certain
program windows that the JAWS cursor just doesn't see, especially in
Windows 10. When I was training new users in how to use NVDA I know
that some of them would never have been able to deal with object navigation.
However, pressing insert-7 (on the number pad) to put NVDA into flat
review mode may work for a lot of people, even though this mode may
not work for all windows. Within this mode and even in the standard
review mode the number pad commands may be more intuitive with 7, 8
and 9 for previous, current and next line, 4, 5 and 6 for previous,
current and next word and 1, 2 and 3 for previous, current and next
character. This feels very comfortable for me since ASAP, a screen
reader I used in the DOS days, used the same commands for its review capability.

David Goldfield, Assistive Technology Specialist
WWW.David-Goldfield.Com <http://WWW.David-Goldfield.Com>

On 12/23/2018 11:40 AM, Ann Byrne wrote:

My most difficult issue with NVDA is understanding object view. I
struggle to move freely around the screen the way the JAWS cursor
often does.




Re: How different is NVDA different than Jaws?

Gene
 

At the time the system tray dialog was introduced, and JAWS, Window-eyes, and System Access all have that feature, the system tray was not accessible.  The first version I know that it was is XP. This is not some degradation of using Windows JAWS introduced.  It was necessary. 
 
I’ve strongly maintained for years, though the developers will do what they like regardless of how sehnsible my opinion is, that this feature is so standard a screen-reader function that it should be a part of NVDA.  New users are going to be used to the system used in all major screen-readers I’ve used and they won’t have any idea how to use the Windows method.  Also, when I said that the manual didn’t describe commands for using the Windows method, I was told, seriously, that the manual shouldn’t have such commands because they are Windows commands, not NVDA commands.  So a standard function of screen-readers isn’t included and instructions are not given in the manual for using the Windows method because the commands are Windows commands.  What a ridiculous catch 22.  Kafka couldn’t have devised anything better. 
 
If I sound frustrated about, this I am.  NVDA should not put such obstacles before new users. 
 
Regarding proprietary JAWS commands, the Windows commands still work when you use JAWS.  So this is only a disadvantage if you use the JAWS provisions, don’t know about the Windows ones, and don’t have a choice. 
 
But this is not a difference I consider important enough for anyone to determine which screen-reader they will use. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Clare Page
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 10:15 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws?
 

Hi!

The fact is, people’s feelings about voice synthesizers are always subjective, we’re never going to all like the same ones. I happen to share Brian’s dislike of Eloquence, so now that I don’t use JAWS my computer is an Eloquence-free zone, but I respect the fact that others like its good pronunciation of words and the fact that it sounds better at very high speeds than some other synthesizers. Those who want Eloquence can get it legally for NVDA now, so dislike of ESpeak doesn’t necessarily mean that NVDA should be avoided these days, plus I gather that NVDA defaults to the Windows voices on Windows 10, and there are plenty of extra voices available for NVDA anyway.

For me, one important difference between NVDA and JAWS, which has nothing to do with voices, is that NVDA is a much lighter program overall, without the extras bundled with it that JAWS has, such as Research It and FS Reader: also, NVDA is far less likely to add its own keystrokes for certain operations as JAWS does, for example NVDA uses the native Windows keystroke Windows+b to get to the system tray while JAWS felt the need to change that to insert+F11. I’m not saying those things are wrong, use jaws if yu want the alternative keystrokes and the extras I just mentioned: I personally like the fact that NVDA is a much lighter program, and it’s totally optional whether we use add-ons or not, whereas some parts of JAWS are there which aren’t totally essential in a screen-reader.

The above is just my opinion, I’m not anti-JAWS, I just felt I should mention what I consider to be advantages of NVDA which make it different from jaws.

Bye for now!

From Clare

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: dimanche 23 décembre 2018 16:18
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws?

 

Are you commenting on the American or brittish voice?  The Brittish voice is terrible, obviously being programmed by people who don't speak Brittich

English and have no idea what a Brittish accent should sound like, or they can't achieve it if they do, and the voice is given an unpleasant sound as well.  The American voice has a slight raspiness but if you speed upt the voice to a rather fast listening speed, as a lot of people do, the raspiness largely disappears or is reduced in how you hear it, I don't know which.

 

Also, Eloquence is easier to understand at fast speech rates than other synthesizers I've heard at fast rates.  And it is more accurate in word pronunciation without adding words to a speech dictionary than any synthesizer I've heard.  It is also very responsive. 

 

I like Brittish accents and if the Brittish voice were good, I might switch between it and the American voice for variety and enjoyment, but its ludicrously bad. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 7:24 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws?

 

Putting an alternate view here. To me anything that uses Eloquence is pretty
soon either binned or the voice altered to Espeak, Daniel or some other. I
have always hated Eloquence for its lisp and nasality, though I do
understand it is supposed to be easier at fast speeds, I find completely the
opposite. This is just my view and  I'm not alone, but I would not say its a
fact for everyone. I suspect it depends on how you perceive language and
lots of other things. It is a pretty old voice now though.
Brian

bglists@...
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Please address personal E-mail to:-
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Dang Manh Cuong" <dangmanhcuong@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 2:18 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws?


Hi Maria
Beside the info of other member, the biggest different I think is NVDA
doesn't use Eloquences as the primary speech, and this also not included in
the program. If you like, you must buy it, and install into your computer.
There is an article named switching from Jaws to NVDA. If you're about to do
that, take a look at
https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda-community/wiki/SwitchingFromJawsToNVDA
Hope that help
Cuong
----------------
Dang Manh Cuong
The Assistive technology specialist
Sao Mai Vocational and assistive center for the blind
52/22 Huynh Thien Loc St., Hoa Thanh ward, Tan Phu dist., HCM, Vietnam.
Tel: +8428 7302-4488
E-mail: info@...; tech@...
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/saomaicenterfortheblind
Website: http://www.trungtamsaomai.org; http://www.saomaicenter.org  Mobile
/ Zalo: +84 902-572-300
E-mail: dangmanhcuong@...; cuong@...
Skype name: dangmanhcuong
facebook: http://facebook.com/dangmanhcuong
Twitter: @ManhCuongTech
NVDA Certified Expert: https://certification.nvaccess.org/
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Maria Reyes
  To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
  Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 8:50 AM
  Subject: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws?


  How different is NVDA than Jaws? what are some differences?


  Maria
  blindteky@...
  Want to talk all about blind technology?
  Join the tech4theblind group: tech4theblind+subscribe@groups.io
  Have an Apple product? Join the Apple411 group to discuss the iPhone,
iPad, and Mac. From experienced to new users.
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Re: For Joseph ... How different is NVDA different than Jaws?

 

Hi,
Tutorials: it is free, audio, and can be downloaded from:
https://www.josephsl.net/tutorials
Note that the tutorial goes over NVDA 2018.1, which, by today's standards, is out of date. However, most of what I describe in there is applicable in 2018.4.
Note that the tutorial I produced over the years is considered a third-party effort; there is a collection of tutorials from NV Access (cheap, by the way) that does go over NVDA. More recent additions include using NVDA with Word and other Office applications.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Howard Traxler
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 9:15 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] For Joseph ... How different is NVDA different than Jaws?

Hello Joseph. I'd like to know about your NVDA tutorial. What does it cost and is it audio or text? Is it downloadable? I sure need to learn more about the different review modes in NVDA.


Thanks.

Howard

On 12/23/2018 10:53 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi,
If you're coming from JAWS to NVDA, object navigation may sound
similar to touch cursor from JAWS. In fact, they are really the same.
You can't navigate freely via JAWS cursor, or in terms of NVDA, a
combination of review cursor and screen review in more recent apps.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ann Byrne
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 8:40 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ...
JAWS cursor

My most difficult issue with NVDA is understanding object view. I
struggle to move freely around the screen the way the JAWS cursor often does.








Re: fore some reason nvda isn't talking when I'm using my keyboard

Tyler Wood
 

Hi,

It's hard to explain by text alone and if you haven't actually used solid state storage in your daily computing, you really have no conception of the difference.


I was a firm believer in hard drives until a few years ago. I used to claim I would never spend the money on a solid state drive - the price vs. performance just wasn't there. Then I got a laptop with one and seeing it out perform a desktop with a spinning hard drive from the same time period in so many more ways than I described below was something of an eye opener.


Again, it's truly indescribable regarding performance differences. No, I don't recommend replacing a spinning hard drive with a solid state drive in the same computer. But if you have the chance, take a look at one, at least. I haven't actually used the surface go - but from what I have read, it uses EMMC storage, which is a budget version of solid state, essentially. The surface pro uses top of the line PCE storage and is significantly faster, both in processing power, ram, and storage. It should be at that price point, though but I have little doubt that as time goes on, solid state drives will slowly be replacing mechanical hard drives at the same price point. It won't be next year, maybe not even a year after, but they have certainly came down in price compared to even 2 years ago.


Let me reiterate that no matter how you use your computer, you will see a difference, and quite a significant one at that.



On 2018-12-23 8:54 a.m., Gene wrote:
Yes, Windows uses virtual memory when there isn't enough RAM, actual physical memory to store information.  Using virtual memory is only a fallback to keep things running when RAM is full and it significantly slows down the computer.  But the majority of users have more than enough physical memory, (RAM) that they never use virtual memory, unless they are using memory intensive programs, which the majority of users don't use, or unless there is some problem such as the computer being seriously infected and malware is taking up a good deal of memory. 
 
What do you mean anything you want has to be on SSD.  Strange, I've been using physical drives and still do and I don't feel any need for an SSD.  Maybe programs might open almost instantly instead of take a second or two.  Maybe my computer would boot up very quickly.  That is no advantage to me.  I use sleep or standby or whatever my versions of windows call it when I want to have the computer almost completely off.  I can wake from sleep in two or three seconds.  I only boot my computers about once a week or ten days so that instability doesn't occur from not rebooting over too long a time.  Some people may have to do so every two or three days but my impression is that a week is enough for a lot of people, maybe a little longer. 
 
Maybe web pages would load faster but they load plenty fast now and I am not on such a tight schedule that two seconds versus half a second matters.  The surface, if this report represents the  general performance of the Surface models, indicates that they are unreasonably slow.  The Surface, in that case, doesn't represent reasonably fast computers with physical hard drives.  If I buy a computer with an SSD, fine.  But I'm not going to spend money and take time to replace my current drives for what I consider to be no meaningful advantage for how I use the computer.
 
If I were doing something where disk access could really slow down the task, like a lot of file conversions and I did these sorts of tasks often, SSD might really save some time.  But for a lot of people, the time saved isn't worth worrying about if things like using sleep are done.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 4:44 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] fore some reason nvda isn't talking when I'm using my keyboard

No indeed, and it has mostly been the case with windows over the years, as
it always has used what it calls virtual memory, ie hard disc space.
 I only use hard drives for backups and storage of non time critical stuff.
anything you want now has to be on ssd.

Indeed there is one very fast old computer with a normal drive here, anan
ancient dell laptop on xp. It has however got a small drive and hence not a
lot of stuff on it.
 Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tyler Wood" <tcwood12@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2018 11:31 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] fore some reason nvda isn't talking when I'm using my
keyboard


> What world is that in? lol. Unless you're referring to the surface pro 6,
> then it is about on parr with other laptops with solid state storage.
>
>
> I mean, unless you want to go with a 1 tb spinning hard drive and in 2018,
> that's a hard sell.
>
>
> I was using a computer recently that had a core i7-7820HQ (that's a quad
> core processor with 8 threads). It had a mechanical 1 terabyte hard drive,
> and it was made last year.
>
>
> Browsing the web was so much slower than on a machine with a solid state
> drive. It shouldn't be - after all the web browser was already loaded -
> but it was truly painful. Restarting was just about as painful, to. Even
> comparing this to a cheap windows device with a solid state drive - even
> EMMC storage - and I truthfully can't recommend a mechanical hard drive
> these days. And I'm not even getting into general performance. Moving
> around the screen was painfully slow. Opening apps took far longer than a
> machine with a hard drive, even 4 or 5 years ago, used to. I'm not sure if
> it was the screen reader making performance that much worse, but it was
> similar to using a computer, back in the day, that had 256 mb of ram and
> ran windows xp. Browsing the web, while doable, was probably my biggest
> issue.
>
>
> So, yes, while the surface go is relatively expensive when you increase
> the storage space, it comes with the benefit of having a solid state
> drive. In todays day and age, we think windows 10 is very light on
> resources. It most assuredly is not.
>
> On 2018-12-22 4:29 p.m., Shaun Everiss wrote:
>> Yeah and I was seriously going to buy one at one point.
>>
>> Not anymore, they cost more than standard laptops to get one with a lot
>> of space.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 12/23/2018 10:33 AM, molly the blind tech lover wrote:
>>> It sucks that these surface devices have these issues.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's
>>> Mail
>>> list account via Groups.Io
>>> Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2018 3:53 AM
>>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>> Subject: Re: [nvda] fore some reason nvda isn't talking when I'm using
>>> my
>>> keyboard
>>>
>>> Oh there will be...
>>>
>>> 1. Press and hold the power button until the screen turns off (about 10
>>> seconds), then release the power button.
>>> 2. Press and release the power button to turn your Surface back on. You
>>> should see the Microsoft logo.
>>> If that doesn't work, use this shutdown process to make sure your
>>> Surface
>>> completely turns off. Here's how:
>>> Press and hold down the power button until your Surface restarts and you
>>> see
>>> the Windows logo screen (this takes about 20 seconds), then release the
>>> power button.
>>> Surface Book, Surface Pro 4, Surface Pro 3, Surface Pro 2, and Surface
>>> Pro
>>> 1. Press and hold the power button for a full 10 seconds, until the
>>> screen
>>> turns off, then release the power button.
>>> Note
>>> On some Surface models, the screen may immediately turn off when
>>> pressing
>>> the power button. If this happens, continue to hold for the full 10
>>> seconds
>>> and then release.
>>> 2. Press and release the power button to turn your Surface back on. You
>>> should see the Surface logo.
>>> If that doesn't work, use this two-button shutdown process to make sure
>>> your
>>> Surface completely turns off. Here's how:
>>> 1. Press and hold the power button on your Surface for 30 seconds and
>>> then
>>> release it.
>>> 2.
>>> Press and hold the volume-up button and the power button at the same
>>> time
>>> for at least 15 seconds and then release both.
>>> The screen may flash the Surface logo, but continue holding the buttons
>>> down
>>> for at least 15 seconds.
>>> 3. After you release the buttons, wait 10 seconds.
>>> 4. Press and release the power button to turn your Surface back on. You
>>> should see the Surface logo.
>>> Surface 3, Surface 2, and Surface RT
>>> 1. Press and hold the power button for a full 10 seconds, until the
>>> screen
>>> turns off, then release the power button.
>>> Note
>>> On some Surface models, the screen may immediately turn off when
>>> pressing
>>> the power button. If this happens, continue to hold for the full 10
>>> seconds
>>> and then release.
>>> 2. Press and release the power button to turn your Surface back on. You
>>> should see the Surface logo.
>>> bglists@...
>>> Sent via blueyonder.
>>> Please address personal E-mail to:-
>>> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
>>> in the display name field.
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "molly the blind tech lover" <brainardmolly@...>
>>> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>> Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2018 1:06 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nvda] fore some reason nvda isn't talking when I'm using
>>> my
>>> keyboard
>>>
>>>
>>> There is no way to manually force this Microsoft surface tablet to shut
>>> down. I guess I'll have to go to the Microsoft store. Maybe they can fix
>>> it.
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tyler
>>> Spivey
>>> Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 7:39 PM
>>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>> Subject: Re: [nvda] fore some reason nvda isn't talking when I'm using
>>> my
>>> keyboard
>>>
>>> Don't be too discouraged, breaking things is quite normal.
>>>
>>> If this is a tablet with a separate keyboard, maybe Bluetooth was turned
>>> off, the batteries died or the keyboard was turned off. Tab should at
>>> least
>>> do something, or pressing any other key should interrupt NVDA from
>>> speaking.
>>> If nothing happens even after reboot, we can figure it out from there.
>>>
>>> Here's how to power off your tablet.
>>> 1. Try pressing the power button. If that doesn't start the process,
>>> maybe
>>> things aren't set up to work that way, or something is preventing it
>>> from
>>> working.
>>> 2. The next thing to try would be a hard power off. This depends on the
>>> machine, but generally holding power for at least 5 seconds will do it.
>>> This doesn't give Windows a chance to shut down properly and save your
>>> work,
>>> so I generally only do this if I can't easily shut it down any other
>>> way.
>>> After that, just power it on normally.
>>>
>>> On 12/21/2018 4:19 PM, molly the blind tech lover wrote:
>>>> Hey guys, Molly here again.
>>>>
>>>> I don't know what happened but all of a sudden my keyboard on my
>>>> tablet doesn't seem to work with nvda. I press a key, like the windows
>>>> key, and nvda is completely silent. It is silent when I press any key
>>>> on the keyboard. The only way nvda talks is if I use the mouse.
>>>>
>>>> I don't know what I did, but I am so stupid. I am just too dumb to
>>>> ever be a good nvda user. Is there a way to force the machine to
>>>> restart? I am feeling completely incompetent.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>




Re: How different is NVDA different than Jaws?

David Goldfield
 

Ah, I definitely should have mentioned using the numeric keypad in my previous message outlining some of the major differences. JAWS users might initially have some struggles in how NVDA uses the numeric keypad but NVDA's object navigation can sometimes access certain windows which cannot be accessed using the JAWS cursor.

.

David Goldfield, Assistive Technology Specialist WWW.David-Goldfield.Com

On 12/23/2018 12:20 PM, David Goldfield wrote:

Hi, Maria.

I'll try to outline what I see are some of the key differences between the two screen readers. Both have their respective pros and cons and, as I use both, I will try to be as objective as I can in compiling this list. I will say up front that this is probably not an exhaustive or complete list but items which immediately come to mind.



Advantages of NVDA Over JAWS

1. NVDA is free of cost. This not only means that no money is required to use the software but it also means that NVDA users don't need to worry about software maintenance agreements. As long as you're using a fairly modern version of Windows you can be sure that you can always run the latest NVDA version. It also means you never have to worry about being in a trial mode where NVDA will eventually stop functioning

2. NVDA is open source. This has several advantages such as more transparency, being open to community contributions and even allowing the community to take the existing source code and modify it, creating their own screen reader as long as certain terms of the license are met.

3. To my knowledge, NVDA is likely available in more languages and comes with a synthesizer capable of speaking many of these languages. This means that NVDA is capable of being used by people around the world without them first needing to acquire NVDA in their language.

4. NVDA is more of a community effort, written by its users as well as for its users. This means that, potentially, users have more to say about its development.

5. The program's actual size is much smaller, making the download much faster. This means that downloading future updates can, depending on the speed of your Internet connection, take just a few seconds.

6. Along with that, the actual installation of NVDA is lightning fast.

7. NVDA can be run portably off of a USB drive or SD card, without the need to install it onto the host computer. Nearly all features are available using the portable version.

8. NVDA's various program settings are located from within one easy to use menu, as opposed to several different dialogs as well as a menu.

9. One of my personal favorite unique NVDA features is the ability for NVDA to optionally generate ascending tones to indicate the progress indicator for tasks such as copying a file from one location to another, downloading a file in Firefox or Internet Explorer, installing a program, etc. I honestly never understood why JAWS has never implemented such a feature. JAWS is now able to do this if you use the third-party Leasey add-on but this is a program which must be purchased in order for this feature to be available.

10. Along with option 9, NVDA can also report background progress tones, a feature that I really like. As an example, this means that I can have a Windows update download and install in the background while I'm composing a document and I can still hear the ascending progress tones, hear the percentages announced verbally or both.

11. This may be subjective but I feel that NVDA's user documentation has a slightly simpler writing style. The documentation which is supplied with JAWS is both accurate and extensive but it is not written well from the perspective of a new user. I used to train people in how to use computers and screen readers and I find that I was sometimes needing to translate some of the help text supplied with JAWS. Writing manuals and help materials is as much of an art than it is a science.

12. NVDA allows users to submit bug reports and feature requests in a special repository. This has some definite advantages. It shows you the progress of your report and you will know whether and how it's being addressed, as will other users. It also means that you can search the repository for other issues to see whether they have already been reported as well as the status of those issues.


David Goldfield, Assistive Technology Specialist WWW.David-Goldfield.Com
On 12/22/2018 8:50 PM, Maria Reyes wrote:
How different is NVDA than Jaws? what are some differences? 

Maria
Want to talk all about blind technology? 
Join the tech4theblind group: tech4theblind+subscribe@groups.io
Have an Apple product? Join the Apple411 group to discuss the iPhone, iPad, and Mac. From experienced to new users. 


Re: How different is NVDA different than Jaws?

David Goldfield
 

Hi, Maria.

I'll try to outline what I see are some of the key differences between the two screen readers. Both have their respective pros and cons and, as I use both, I will try to be as objective as I can in compiling this list. I will say up front that this is probably not an exhaustive or complete list but items which immediately come to mind.



Advantages of NVDA Over JAWS

1. NVDA is free of cost. This not only means that no money is required to use the software but it also means that NVDA users don't need to worry about software maintenance agreements. As long as you're using a fairly modern version of Windows you can be sure that you can always run the latest NVDA version. It also means you never have to worry about being in a trial mode where NVDA will eventually stop functioning

2. NVDA is open source. This has several advantages such as more transparency, being open to community contributions and even allowing the community to take the existing source code and modify it, creating their own screen reader as long as certain terms of the license are met.

3. To my knowledge, NVDA is likely available in more languages and comes with a synthesizer capable of speaking many of these languages. This means that NVDA is capable of being used by people around the world without them first needing to acquire NVDA in their language.

4. NVDA is more of a community effort, written by its users as well as for its users. This means that, potentially, users have more to say about its development.

5. The program's actual size is much smaller, making the download much faster. This means that downloading future updates can, depending on the speed of your Internet connection, take just a few seconds.

6. Along with that, the actual installation of NVDA is lightning fast.

7. NVDA can be run portably off of a USB drive or SD card, without the need to install it onto the host computer. Nearly all features are available using the portable version.

8. NVDA's various program settings are located from within one easy to use menu, as opposed to several different dialogs as well as a menu.

9. One of my personal favorite unique NVDA features is the ability for NVDA to optionally generate ascending tones to indicate the progress indicator for tasks such as copying a file from one location to another, downloading a file in Firefox or Internet Explorer, installing a program, etc. I honestly never understood why JAWS has never implemented such a feature. JAWS is now able to do this if you use the third-party Leasey add-on but this is a program which must be purchased in order for this feature to be available.

10. Along with option 9, NVDA can also report background progress tones, a feature that I really like. As an example, this means that I can have a Windows update download and install in the background while I'm composing a document and I can still hear the ascending progress tones, hear the percentages announced verbally or both.

11. This may be subjective but I feel that NVDA's user documentation has a slightly simpler writing style. The documentation which is supplied with JAWS is both accurate and extensive but it is not written well from the perspective of a new user. I used to train people in how to use computers and screen readers and I find that I was sometimes needing to translate some of the help text supplied with JAWS. Writing manuals and help materials is as much of an art than it is a science.

12. NVDA allows users to submit bug reports and feature requests in a special repository. This has some definite advantages. It shows you the progress of your report and you will know whether and how it's being addressed, as will other users. It also means that you can search the repository for other issues to see whether they have already been reported as well as the status of those issues.


David Goldfield, Assistive Technology Specialist WWW.David-Goldfield.Com

On 12/22/2018 8:50 PM, Maria Reyes wrote:
How different is NVDA than Jaws? what are some differences? 

Maria
Want to talk all about blind technology? 
Join the tech4theblind group: tech4theblind+subscribe@groups.io
Have an Apple product? Join the Apple411 group to discuss the iPhone, iPad, and Mac. From experienced to new users. 


Re: How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor

Brice Mijares
 

I'd surely appreciate that. I too have a problem understanding Object navigation as I was a 18 year user of Window Eyes. Thank You.

On 12/23/2018 8:58 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi,
If people want, I’m willing to “transcribe” object navigation portion of my tutorial series or do a more thorough write up.
Cheers,
Joseph
*From:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> *On Behalf Of *David Goldfield
*Sent:* Sunday, December 23, 2018 8:50 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor
Ann,
I can well relate to this struggle with object navigation. When I first started using NVDA in 2009 I had been a user of JAWS since version 1.0. At that time, object navigation was so confusing that I felt that I had to turn my mind inside out just to get a grip on it and, for a while, I pretty much ignored the capability. I just used the standard arrow keys to navigate and was pretty content doing so.
A few things turned me around, however. First, understanding the Mac's method of interacting with windows within windows or controls within a window helped as the concepts, to me, were similar. And, while I don't want to turn this into a JAWS vs NVDA debate, the fact is that object navigation on the numeric keypad will allow you to explore certain program windows that the JAWS cursor just doesn't see, especially in Windows 10. When I was training new users in how to use NVDA I know that some of them would never have been able to deal with object navigation. However, pressing insert-7 (on the number pad) to put NVDA into flat review mode may work for a lot of people, even though this mode may not work for all windows. Within this mode and even in the standard review mode the number pad commands may be more intuitive with 7, 8 and 9 for previous, current and next line, 4, 5 and 6 for previous, current and next word and 1, 2 and 3 for previous, current and next character. This feels very comfortable for me since ASAP, a screen reader I used in the DOS days, used the same commands for its review capability.
David Goldfield, Assistive Technology Specialist WWW.David-Goldfield.Com <http://WWW.David-Goldfield.Com>
On 12/23/2018 11:40 AM, Ann Byrne wrote:
My most difficult issue with NVDA is understanding object view.  I
struggle to move freely around the screen the way the JAWS cursor
often does.


For Joseph ... How different is NVDA different than Jaws?

Howard Traxler <howard@...>
 

Hello Joseph.  I'd like to know about your NVDA tutorial.  What does it cost and is it audio or text?  Is it downloadable?  I sure need to learn more about the different review modes in NVDA.


Thanks.

Howard

On 12/23/2018 10:53 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi,
If you're coming from JAWS to NVDA, object navigation may sound similar to
touch cursor from JAWS. In fact, they are really the same.
You can't navigate freely via JAWS cursor, or in terms of NVDA, a
combination of review cursor and screen review in more recent apps.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ann Byrne
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 8:40 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS
cursor

My most difficult issue with NVDA is understanding object view. I struggle
to move freely around the screen the way the JAWS cursor often does.







Re: How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor

 

Hi,

If people want, I’m willing to “transcribe” object navigation portion of my tutorial series or do a more thorough write up.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of David Goldfield
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 8:50 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor

 

Ann,

I can well relate to this struggle with object navigation. When I first started using NVDA in 2009 I had been a user of JAWS since version 1.0. At that time, object navigation was so confusing that I felt that I had to turn my mind inside out just to get a grip on it and, for a while, I pretty much ignored the capability. I just used the standard arrow keys to navigate and was pretty content doing so.

A few things turned me around, however. First, understanding the Mac's method of interacting with windows within windows or controls within a window helped as the concepts, to me, were similar. And, while I don't want to turn this into a JAWS vs NVDA debate, the fact is that object navigation on the numeric keypad will allow you to explore certain program windows that the JAWS cursor just doesn't see, especially in Windows 10. When I was training new users in how to use NVDA I know that some of them would never have been able to deal with object navigation. However, pressing insert-7 (on the number pad) to put NVDA into flat review mode may work for a lot of people, even though this mode may not work for all windows. Within this mode and even in the standard review mode the number pad commands may be more intuitive with 7, 8 and 9 for previous, current and next line, 4, 5 and 6 for previous, current and next word and 1, 2 and 3 for previous, current and next character. This feels very comfortable for me since ASAP, a screen reader I used in the DOS days, used the same commands for its review capability.

David Goldfield, Assistive Technology Specialist WWW.David-Goldfield.Com

On 12/23/2018 11:40 AM, Ann Byrne wrote:

My most difficult issue with NVDA is understanding object view.  I struggle to move freely around the screen the way the JAWS cursor often does.




Re: How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor

 

Hi,
If you're coming from JAWS to NVDA, object navigation may sound similar to
touch cursor from JAWS. In fact, they are really the same.
You can't navigate freely via JAWS cursor, or in terms of NVDA, a
combination of review cursor and screen review in more recent apps.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ann Byrne
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 8:40 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS
cursor

My most difficult issue with NVDA is understanding object view. I struggle
to move freely around the screen the way the JAWS cursor often does.


Re: nvda/tablet is working again

Chris Mullins
 

He’s probably looking for the mouse.

 

Happy Christmas

Chris

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of molly the blind tech lover
Sent: 22 December 2018 23:20
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda/tablet is working again

 

For some reason dust gets in this keyboard and sticks to it. And my cat mr. Jennings tries  to walk on the keyboard. I have to push him away.  

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Moore
Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2018 5:26 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda/tablet is working again

 

I must be missing something here.  I have owned 3 asus transformer books, love those little things and never had to clean the connectors.

 

I guess I could see it happening though.

Brian.

Contact me on skype: brian.moore
follow me on twitter:
http://www.twitter.com/bmoore123

On 2018-12-22 1:27 p.m., molly the blind tech lover wrote:

Me too. This keyboard is frustrating. It sometimes stops working. In that case I still have the touchscreen.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2018 12:49 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda/tablet is working again

 

Yep, through my close to 30 years of me using confusers , (I was a curious little cuss at age 5) I also learned that the hard way. Lol!
Glad you got nvda working.
On 22 Dec 2018, at 9:31, molly the blind tech lover wrote:

Hey guys, Molly here again.

I hope this message doesn’t get sent twice, because last night I was frustrated and said said things I regret.

Anyway, I discovered that while nvda wasn’t talking while using the keyboard, I could still use the touchscreen. I disconnected the keyboard and cleaned it. It collects dust and crap because of the material it’s made from. Anyway, the machine works completely fine now. And our Internet is working again. As soon as I logged on Nvda wanted me to update some addons. So everything works. I really hope I don’t panic the next time something like this happens. Panicking doesn’t solve anything.  And it just makes me look stupid.


Re: How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor

David Goldfield
 

Ann,

I can well relate to this struggle with object navigation. When I first started using NVDA in 2009 I had been a user of JAWS since version 1.0. At that time, object navigation was so confusing that I felt that I had to turn my mind inside out just to get a grip on it and, for a while, I pretty much ignored the capability. I just used the standard arrow keys to navigate and was pretty content doing so.

A few things turned me around, however. First, understanding the Mac's method of interacting with windows within windows or controls within a window helped as the concepts, to me, were similar. And, while I don't want to turn this into a JAWS vs NVDA debate, the fact is that object navigation on the numeric keypad will allow you to explore certain program windows that the JAWS cursor just doesn't see, especially in Windows 10. When I was training new users in how to use NVDA I know that some of them would never have been able to deal with object navigation. However, pressing insert-7 (on the number pad) to put NVDA into flat review mode may work for a lot of people, even though this mode may not work for all windows. Within this mode and even in the standard review mode the number pad commands may be more intuitive with 7, 8 and 9 for previous, current and next line, 4, 5 and 6 for previous, current and next word and 1, 2 and 3 for previous, current and next character. This feels very comfortable for me since ASAP, a screen reader I used in the DOS days, used the same commands for its review capability.

David Goldfield, Assistive Technology Specialist WWW.David-Goldfield.Com

On 12/23/2018 11:40 AM, Ann Byrne wrote:
My most difficult issue with NVDA is understanding object view.  I struggle to move freely around the screen the way the JAWS cursor often does.





Re: How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor

Rui Fontes
 

That is simple...
Press NVDA+NumLock7 to access ScreenReview...

Rui Fontes


Às 16:40 de 23/12/2018, Ann Byrne escreveu:

My most difficult issue with NVDA is understanding object view.  I struggle to move freely around the screen the way the JAWS cursor often does.


Re: How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor

Ann Byrne
 

My most difficult issue with NVDA is understanding object view. I struggle to move freely around the screen the way the JAWS cursor often does.


Re: How different is NVDA different than Jaws?

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

What I like about NVDA is that it doesn't take up as much memory like Jaws does.

On 12/23/2018 8:15 AM, Clare Page wrote:
Hi!

The fact is, people’s feelings about voice synthesizers are always
subjective, we’re never going to all like the same ones. I happen to share
Brian’s dislike of Eloquence, so now that I don’t use JAWS my computer is an
Eloquence-free zone, but I respect the fact that others like its good
pronunciation of words and the fact that it sounds better at very high
speeds than some other synthesizers. Those who want Eloquence can get it
legally for NVDA now, so dislike of ESpeak doesn’t necessarily mean that
NVDA should be avoided these days, plus I gather that NVDA defaults to the
Windows voices on Windows 10, and there are plenty of extra voices available
for NVDA anyway.

For me, one important difference between NVDA and JAWS, which has nothing to
do with voices, is that NVDA is a much lighter program overall, without the
extras bundled with it that JAWS has, such as Research It and FS Reader:
also, NVDA is far less likely to add its own keystrokes for certain
operations as JAWS does, for example NVDA uses the native Windows keystroke
Windows+b to get to the system tray while JAWS felt the need to change that
to insert+F11. I’m not saying those things are wrong, use jaws if yu want
the alternative keystrokes and the extras I just mentioned: I personally
like the fact that NVDA is a much lighter program, and it’s totally optional
whether we use add-ons or not, whereas some parts of JAWS are there which
aren’t totally essential in a screen-reader.

The above is just my opinion, I’m not anti-JAWS, I just felt I should
mention what I consider to be advantages of NVDA which make it different
from jaws.

Bye for now!

From Clare



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: dimanche 23 décembre 2018 16:18
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws?


Are you commenting on the American or brittish voice? The Brittish voice is
terrible, obviously being programmed by people who don't speak Brittich

English and have no idea what a Brittish accent should sound like, or they
can't achieve it if they do, and the voice is given an unpleasant sound as
well. The American voice has a slight raspiness but if you speed upt the
voice to a rather fast listening speed, as a lot of people do, the raspiness
largely disappears or is reduced in how you hear it, I don't know which.


Also, Eloquence is easier to understand at fast speech rates than other
synthesizers I've heard at fast rates. And it is more accurate in word
pronunciation without adding words to a speech dictionary than any
synthesizer I've heard. It is also very responsive.


I like Brittish accents and if the Brittish voice were good, I might switch
between it and the American voice for variety and enjoyment, but its
ludicrously bad.


Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
<mailto:bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io>

Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 7:24 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws?


Putting an alternate view here. To me anything that uses Eloquence is pretty

soon either binned or the voice altered to Espeak, Daniel or some other. I
have always hated Eloquence for its lisp and nasality, though I do
understand it is supposed to be easier at fast speeds, I find completely the

opposite. This is just my view and I'm not alone, but I would not say its a

fact for everyone. I suspect it depends on how you perceive language and
lots of other things. It is a pretty old voice now though.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dang Manh Cuong" <dangmanhcuong@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 2:18 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws?


Hi Maria
Beside the info of other member, the biggest different I think is NVDA
doesn't use Eloquences as the primary speech, and this also not included in
the program. If you like, you must buy it, and install into your computer.
There is an article named switching from Jaws to NVDA. If you're about to do

that, take a look at
https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda-community/wiki/SwitchingFromJawsToNVDA
Hope that help
Cuong
----------------
Dang Manh Cuong
The Assistive technology specialist
Sao Mai Vocational and assistive center for the blind
52/22 Huynh Thien Loc St., Hoa Thanh ward, Tan Phu dist., HCM, Vietnam.
Tel: +8428 7302-4488
E-mail: info@saomaicenter.org; tech@saomaicenter.org
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/saomaicenterfortheblind
Website: http://www.trungtamsaomai.org; http://www.saomaicenter.org Mobile
/ Zalo: +84 902-572-300
E-mail: dangmanhcuong@gmail.com; cuong@saomaicenter.org
Skype name: dangmanhcuong
facebook: http://facebook.com/dangmanhcuong
Twitter: @ManhCuongTech
NVDA Certified Expert: https://certification.nvaccess.org/
----- Original Message -----
From: Maria Reyes
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 8:50 AM
Subject: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws?


How different is NVDA than Jaws? what are some differences?


Maria
blindteky@gmail.com
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