Date   

Re: outlook is working again...

 

Hi,
Actually, for Outlook problem, it might not be the processor at all. There
was an issue discussed not long ago where if you open a certain message (or
messages formatted in certain way) in Outlook with NVDA running, Outlook
would crash. I'm thinking you may have encountered that one.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of molly the blind
tech lover
Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2018 12:06 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] outlook is working again...

Well just that this machine is slow sometimes.
I know of other people who have this exact same model and most of them say
the processor is slow and lags a bit. I don't have this problem on my other
machine.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Antony Stone
Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2018 2:53 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] outlook is working again...

What information made you believe that the processor was the problem?

Antony.

On Wednesday 26 December 2018 at 04:07:44, molly the blind tech lover wrote:

Hey guys.

Outlook is working normally again, Temporarily. I think the issue has
to do with the processor on this machine.
--
A few words to be cautious of between American and English:
- momentarily
- suspenders
- chips
- pants
- jelly
- pavement
- vest
- pint (and gallon)
- pissed


Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC
me.


Re: outlook is working again...

molly the blind tech lover
 

Well just that this machine is slow sometimes.
I know of other people who have this exact same model and most of them say
the processor is slow and lags a bit. I don't have this problem on my other
machine.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Antony Stone
Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2018 2:53 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] outlook is working again...

What information made you believe that the processor was the problem?

Antony.

On Wednesday 26 December 2018 at 04:07:44, molly the blind tech lover wrote:

Hey guys.

Outlook is working normally again, Temporarily. I think the issue has
to do with the processor on this machine.
--
A few words to be cautious of between American and English:
- momentarily
- suspenders
- chips
- pants
- jelly
- pavement
- vest
- pint (and gallon)
- pissed


Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC
me.


Re: outlook is working again...

Antony Stone
 

What information made you believe that the processor was the problem?

Antony.

On Wednesday 26 December 2018 at 04:07:44, molly the blind tech lover wrote:

Hey guys.

Outlook is working normally again, Temporarily. I think the issue has to do
with the processor on this machine.
--
A few words to be cautious of between American and English:
- momentarily
- suspenders
- chips
- pants
- jelly
- pavement
- vest
- pint (and gallon)
- pissed


Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.


Re: outlook is working again...

molly the blind tech lover
 

I’ll try that.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2018 2:49 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] outlook is working again...

 

Can you for now send 1 or 2 emaisl at a time then compact its data base to see if that might help?

Take care

On 25 Dec 2018, at 19:07, molly the blind tech lover wrote:

Hey guys.

Outlook is working normally again, Temporarily. I think the issue has to do with  the processor on this machine.


Re: outlook is working again...

Sarah k Alawami
 

Can you for now send 1 or 2 emaisl at a time then compact its data base to see if that might help?

Take care

On 25 Dec 2018, at 19:07, molly the blind tech lover wrote:

Hey guys.

Outlook is working normally again, Temporarily. I think the issue has to do with  the processor on this machine.


RX 6 or 7

Christopher Wright <wrightchristopher263@...>
 

Hi,

Any tutorials on how to use RX 6 or 7 with NVDA?



Thanks.


Re: chrome help needed

Desert Moon
 

Hello Denis,

Press NVDA + F7 to open the Elements List. Press W repeatedly until you hear: "Waterford light display that..." Hit Enter and the video will be played.

--
Desert


Re: Browse mode and focus

Felix G.
 

Hello Tony,
ah now I get it. I tried the arrow keys, and saw the usual
sluggishness and elements expanding in response to focus events. I'll
try focus hack now to see what happens. If I get this correctly, it
should have a lot of side effects but block NVDA from ever setting
focus to anything.
Best,
Felix

Am Mi., 26. Dez. 2018 um 18:01 Uhr schrieb Tony Malykh <anton.malykh@gmail.com>:


Hi Felix,
Yeah, that's why I like Python, you can do that sort of hacking on the fly.
Why do you think focus events are still being sent? What are the
symptoms? And what is your browser?
And also did you try focus hack mode - press NVDA+8 twice. Basically
in "Browse mode moves system focus off" only some of the setFocus
events are intercepted, such as when pressing browse mode keystrokes,
like H, G and K. Apparently if you press up or down arrow, that
triggers a different code path - and then focus hack deals with it by
intercepting more setFocus events, but it leaves the rest of NVDA
crippled. Could you confirm that focus hack works for you?

Best
Tony


On 12/25/18, Felix G. <constantlyvariable@gmail.com> wrote:
Wow that's elegant. So you're monkey-patching the function that deals
with moving in browse mode so that instead of operating on the object
itself it operates on a wrapper that replaces getFocus with a no-op.
I've never seen code that so selectively patches one particular path
of calls.
Took me the better part of half an hour to understand what it does. A
pity it seems not to work, I'm still working out why.
Best,
Felix

Am Di., 25. Dez. 2018 um 21:25 Uhr schrieb Felix G. via Groups.Io
<constantlyvariable=gmail.com@groups.io>:

Hello Tony,
I'm afraid I'm still seeing focus events even when they're switched
off. Time for me to look at that code, as I'd love to run that test in
a representative way.
Thanks for the inspiration,
Felix

Am Di., 25. Dez. 2018 um 20:47 Uhr schrieb Tony Malykh
<anton.malykh@gmail.com>:

I just wrote a tiny add-on that prevents NVDA from sending focus
events to the browser.
Binary:
https://github.com/mltony/nvda-super-browser/releases/download/v0.1dev/superbrowser-0.1dev.nvda-addon
Source and description:
https://github.com/mltony/nvda-super-browser/
Press NVDA+8 to turn focus sending to browsers on and off.
It's not a production-ready add-on, as it introduces a lot of side
effects when not sending focus events. However, it'll give you an idea
how much faster and more responsive your browsing experience might
become without these focus events being sent back and forth.


On 12/21/18, Gene <gsasner@gmail.com> wrote:
Are you sure you have automatic switching off in NVDA? I never have
browse
mode turn off when I have the automatic switching feature off. I
have
repeatedly said that automatic switching should not be on by default.
It is
not a setting that people should have on unless they know about it
and
understand exactly how it works.

And to confuse unknowledgeable and learning users more, it
automatically
switches modes when you move in some ways and it doesn't switch when
you
move in other ways. People learning how to use the internet should
not have
this feature confusing them and making it harder to learn.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Tony Malykh
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 1:11 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Browse mode and focus


I must also add that edit boxes sporadically entering forms mode is a
very big problem for me. At work I have to use a website that
contains
an edit box that somehow always enters forms mode and once this
happens, the web site opens a popup dialog somewhere in the end of
the
page and brings the focus there. So there is no easy way to go past
that edit box and the entire website becomes unusable. I know, this
is
probably not a very screenreader-friendly website, but Jaws manages
to
work fine with it somehow. I would say that this problem is one of
the
major disadvantages of NVDA compared to Jaws.

On 12/21/18, Tony Malykh via Groups.Io
<anton.malykh=gmail.com@groups.io>
wrote:
Hi Felix,
I experience all the same problems as you described: rubber band
browse mode cursor jumping back on large webpages, and also edit
boxes
automatically entering forms mode even though I didn't ask them to.
It's good to know that this is a known issue, but this indeed seems
like a complicated issue to fix.
1. It seems to me that adding a switch like "browse mode cursor
moves
system focus" would be a very useful fix in the short term. We
already
have a "caret moves review cursor" switch bound to NVDA+6 - so it
seems to be just a question of adding another switch like this. I
have
to say that most of the web sites work fine for me with current NVDA
behavior, and for those websites that don't work very well, this new
switch might come very handy.
2. Do you know how Jaws works around this problem? Do they not
update
system focus at all when in browse mode? Or they only update it when
they realise that some other gesture might require updated focus?

Best
Tony


On 12/21/18, Felix G. <constantlyvariable@gmail.com> wrote:
Just found a ticket on this problem:
https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/2039
Best,
Felix

Am Fr., 21. Dez. 2018 um 15:51 Uhr schrieb Felix G. via Groups.Io
<constantlyvariable=gmail.com@groups.io>:

Hello Gene,
exactly, that's what I am referring to: A way to move the browse
mode
cursor through a page without triggering events in the browser. It
would feel lightning-fast, as it would only involve changing a
position in an internal textual representation fully managed by
NVDA
in its own process space. When hitting enter or the space bar to
interact with something, focus could then be brought to that
object.
The analogy in the sighted world is that of a touch screen: Just
looking at the contents does not generate events, and is therefore
not
slowed down by anything the browser needs to handle.
I am calling those events focus changes because technically that's
what they are. Focus, in this context, is the Windows concept
defined
as a control's responsibility for handling keyboard input. It's
hard
to describe without leaving a lot of dangling terms as it's a very
technical notion in Windows programming.
Best,
Felix

Am Fr., 21. Dez. 2018 um 15:29 Uhr schrieb Gene
<gsasner@gmail.com>:

I may Have misunderstood what you want to do and I may not have
the
technical knowledge to fully understand what you want changed.
Are
you
talking about being able to move through a web page and have
browse
mode
just show you the page, as though you had copied it into
something
like
Notepad? In that case, you would move, but nothing would ever
be
triggered on the page as you move. But you seem to be
discussing
this
related to a feature that allows a person to see where the blind
person
is on the page. If so, why are you assuming they are related?
Isn't
there already a setting to turn off this feature, used by
sighted
instructors or others working with a blind person?

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 8:14 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Browse mode and focus

I suspect that the JAWS cursor may see the web page text when
NVDA
review doesn't.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 5:06 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Browse mode and focus

Probably not, but if you can explain a little more clearly when
you
need
to
have it as you describe then we might be a bit wiser. Remember
not
everyone
has Jaws or uses all if its features, so we may learn something
here.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Felix G." <constantlyvariable@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 9:29 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Browse mode and focus


Hello Marcio,
I could only find checkboxes dealing with the conditions for
automatically switching to focus mode, but nothing related to
focus
changes. Those are completely different concepts. Are you sure
we
are
on the same page?
Best,
Felix

Am Fr., 21. Dez. 2018 um 09:45 Uhr schrieb marcio via
Groups.Io
<marcinhorj21=yahoo.com.br@groups.io>:

Hello,
You can configure it through the Settings, which can be found
at
the
NVDA
Menu (NVDA+N).
Search for browse mode, then uncheck the boxes on automatic
change
or
something like that. I don't know how it should appear because
I'm
not
using NVDA in English, but I hope it can help you somehow.

________________________________
Cheers,
Marcio
________________________________
Where to find me:
My Yahoo! email
Add me on Skype
Follow me on Twitter
Follow or add me on Facebook
Ask me something on CuriousCat
________________________________
Phone(s):
(+55)21-9-81615268 (Tim-RJ)
________________________________
My WhatsApp
________________________________
Em 21/12/2018 05:53, Felix G. escreveu:

Hello list,
I'd like to ask how to keep focus from following the browse
mode
cursor. While this behavior may often be desirable, there are
many
instances in which it unnecessarily slows down the browsing
experience
as NVDA needs to constantly keep track of focus events,
deciding
whether or not they are related to browse mode cursor
movements.
With
unfortunate timing, NVDA sometimes fails to associate a
browse
mode
cursor action with its corresponding focus event and bounces
back
a
few lines or switches to forms mode because it thinks focus
has
changed asynchronously on behalf of the website rather than
the
user.
The sighted world analogy of moving the browse mode cursor is
simply
reading, which should not be associated with so many events in
the
browser.
If anyone would like to try out how the other behavior, as
also
seen
in JAWS, would feel in terms of speed: Go to a complex website
and
then navigate in browse mode, but not using the standard
arrow
keys
but instead the review cursor (numpad 7 and numpad 9).
All the best,
Felix























Re: Tutorial/overview: object navigation

David Mehler
 

Hello,

Thanks for this tutorial. The light bulb has come on! The various
analogies were quite helpful.

Thanks.
Dave.

On 12/25/18, Hope Williamson <ladyhope@gmx.com> wrote:
This was pretty epic! I'm starting to get object navigation after using NVDA
since 2013 lol.




Re: Best Wordprocesor

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

There is a paid for version but I've not tried it.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <gsasner@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2018 4:57 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Best Wordprocesor


JARTE may not have the features needed for a business environment. What features are you looking for?

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Peter Beasley
Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2018 10:47 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Best Wordprocesor


Try Jarte.



Sent from Mail for Windows 10



From: kelby carlson
Sent: 26 December 2018 16:36
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Best Wordprocesor



In light of the confirmation that certain features of LibreOffice are

inaccessible, I'd be interested to know what everyone's vaorite word

processing application is. i mostly use Word, but am coming to really

hate its sluggishness and clutter and am hoping to find a different

one. It looks like LibreOffice and OpenOffice both have accessibility

issues that make them unsuitable for my work environment.



--

Kelby Carlson


Re: Best Wordprocesor

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I assume though that older versions of word will carry on as they are.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2018 5:07 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Best Wordprocesor


Hi,

Regarding Word and NVDA performance: there is an active research project to speed things up by using UI Automation. Note that it’ll require using more recent Office 365 releases.

Cheers,

Joseph





From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of kelby carlson
Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2018 9:02 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Best Wordprocesor



Brian,

Currently I am using Word 2016 on a Windows 10 tablet and laptop. The inaccessible features of LibreOffice and OpenOffice are the inability to easily work with footnotes and endnotes as well as comments. I otherwise find these programs fast and fairly intuitive compared to Word, though they are lacking in some of the keyboard shortcuts Word possesses. These are features i use every day so they really are crucial.


Re: Best Wordprocesor

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I think he means that Libra office has no browse mode and the read all does not work. Also a few extra bits need Java and both accessibility bridges, Indeed if you want to use the spreadsheet or other parts you definitely need Java and Java is sluggish and error prone in my humble opinion.
I do not need huge power however and get by with libra portable, Jarte and an old copy of word 2002 which will still work in windows 7.
The newer office packages are only slow at the moment due to not all uac or whatever its acronym is , bits being used by nvda yet. A lot is using dom, and this really needs to be juat a fall back for portable use and older versions in my view, but having said that word is just far too complex these days.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Vogel" <britechguy@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2018 4:55 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Best Wordprocesor


Kelby,

Would you mind elaborating on what the accessibility issues are with LibreOffice and OpenOffice? These are almost universally recommended as accessible options when Word is not available, and this is the first I've heard anyone state there are issues with them.

Also, what version of Word are you using? That can make a huge difference in its behavior. Also, on what Windows platform?
--

Brian *-* Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763

*A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.*

~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back


Re: Best Wordprocesor

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

That is, however a very simple one. If you need word there is not a lot other than maybe the online Google offering which seems to me to be a bit naff, or word or Libra.
All of them have issues with screenreaders as they seem to change so often and the screenreaders cannot keep up.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Beasley" <pjbeasley23@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2018 4:47 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Best Wordprocesor


Try Jarte.

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: kelby carlson
Sent: 26 December 2018 16:36
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Best Wordprocesor

In light of the confirmation that certain features of LibreOffice are
inaccessible, I'd be interested to know what everyone's vaorite word
processing application is. i mostly use Word, but am coming to really
hate its sluggishness and clutter and am hoping to find a different
one. It looks like LibreOffice and OpenOffice both have accessibility
issues that make them unsuitable for my work environment.

--
Kelby Carlson


Re: Best Wordprocesor

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

I use jarte because it has a feature where you can do spell check. It's a great little word processor.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of kelby carlson
Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2018 8:37 AM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Best Wordprocesor

In light of the confirmation that certain features of LibreOffice are inaccessible, I'd be interested to know what everyone's vaorite word processing application is. i mostly use Word, but am coming to really hate its sluggishness and clutter and am hoping to find a different one. It looks like LibreOffice and OpenOffice both have accessibility issues that make them unsuitable for my work environment.

--
Kelby Carlson


Re: Best Wordprocesor

 

Hi,

Regarding Word and NVDA performance: there is an active research project to speed things up by using UI Automation. Note that it’ll require using more recent Office 365 releases.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of kelby carlson
Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2018 9:02 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Best Wordprocesor

 

Brian,

Currently I am using Word 2016 on a Windows 10 tablet and laptop. The inaccessible features of LibreOffice and OpenOffice are the inability to easily work with footnotes and endnotes as well as comments. I otherwise find these programs fast and fairly intuitive compared to Word, though they are lacking in some of the keyboard shortcuts Word possesses. These are features i use every day so they really are crucial.


Re: Best Wordprocesor

kelby carlson
 

Brian,

Currently I am using Word 2016 on a Windows 10 tablet and laptop. The inaccessible features of LibreOffice and OpenOffice are the inability to easily work with footnotes and endnotes as well as comments. I otherwise find these programs fast and fairly intuitive compared to Word, though they are lacking in some of the keyboard shortcuts Word possesses. These are features i use every day so they really are crucial.


Re: Browse mode and focus

Tony Malykh
 

Hi Felix,
Yeah, that's why I like Python, you can do that sort of hacking on the fly.
Why do you think focus events are still being sent? What are the
symptoms? And what is your browser?
And also did you try focus hack mode - press NVDA+8 twice. Basically
in "Browse mode moves system focus off" only some of the setFocus
events are intercepted, such as when pressing browse mode keystrokes,
like H, G and K. Apparently if you press up or down arrow, that
triggers a different code path - and then focus hack deals with it by
intercepting more setFocus events, but it leaves the rest of NVDA
crippled. Could you confirm that focus hack works for you?

Best
Tony

On 12/25/18, Felix G. <constantlyvariable@gmail.com> wrote:
Wow that's elegant. So you're monkey-patching the function that deals
with moving in browse mode so that instead of operating on the object
itself it operates on a wrapper that replaces getFocus with a no-op.
I've never seen code that so selectively patches one particular path
of calls.
Took me the better part of half an hour to understand what it does. A
pity it seems not to work, I'm still working out why.
Best,
Felix

Am Di., 25. Dez. 2018 um 21:25 Uhr schrieb Felix G. via Groups.Io
<constantlyvariable=gmail.com@groups.io>:

Hello Tony,
I'm afraid I'm still seeing focus events even when they're switched
off. Time for me to look at that code, as I'd love to run that test in
a representative way.
Thanks for the inspiration,
Felix

Am Di., 25. Dez. 2018 um 20:47 Uhr schrieb Tony Malykh
<anton.malykh@gmail.com>:

I just wrote a tiny add-on that prevents NVDA from sending focus
events to the browser.
Binary:
https://github.com/mltony/nvda-super-browser/releases/download/v0.1dev/superbrowser-0.1dev.nvda-addon
Source and description:
https://github.com/mltony/nvda-super-browser/
Press NVDA+8 to turn focus sending to browsers on and off.
It's not a production-ready add-on, as it introduces a lot of side
effects when not sending focus events. However, it'll give you an idea
how much faster and more responsive your browsing experience might
become without these focus events being sent back and forth.


On 12/21/18, Gene <gsasner@gmail.com> wrote:
Are you sure you have automatic switching off in NVDA? I never have
browse
mode turn off when I have the automatic switching feature off. I
have
repeatedly said that automatic switching should not be on by default.
It is
not a setting that people should have on unless they know about it
and
understand exactly how it works.

And to confuse unknowledgeable and learning users more, it
automatically
switches modes when you move in some ways and it doesn't switch when
you
move in other ways. People learning how to use the internet should
not have
this feature confusing them and making it harder to learn.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Tony Malykh
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 1:11 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Browse mode and focus


I must also add that edit boxes sporadically entering forms mode is a
very big problem for me. At work I have to use a website that
contains
an edit box that somehow always enters forms mode and once this
happens, the web site opens a popup dialog somewhere in the end of
the
page and brings the focus there. So there is no easy way to go past
that edit box and the entire website becomes unusable. I know, this
is
probably not a very screenreader-friendly website, but Jaws manages
to
work fine with it somehow. I would say that this problem is one of
the
major disadvantages of NVDA compared to Jaws.

On 12/21/18, Tony Malykh via Groups.Io
<anton.malykh=gmail.com@groups.io>
wrote:
Hi Felix,
I experience all the same problems as you described: rubber band
browse mode cursor jumping back on large webpages, and also edit
boxes
automatically entering forms mode even though I didn't ask them to.
It's good to know that this is a known issue, but this indeed seems
like a complicated issue to fix.
1. It seems to me that adding a switch like "browse mode cursor
moves
system focus" would be a very useful fix in the short term. We
already
have a "caret moves review cursor" switch bound to NVDA+6 - so it
seems to be just a question of adding another switch like this. I
have
to say that most of the web sites work fine for me with current NVDA
behavior, and for those websites that don't work very well, this new
switch might come very handy.
2. Do you know how Jaws works around this problem? Do they not
update
system focus at all when in browse mode? Or they only update it when
they realise that some other gesture might require updated focus?

Best
Tony


On 12/21/18, Felix G. <constantlyvariable@gmail.com> wrote:
Just found a ticket on this problem:
https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/2039
Best,
Felix

Am Fr., 21. Dez. 2018 um 15:51 Uhr schrieb Felix G. via Groups.Io
<constantlyvariable=gmail.com@groups.io>:

Hello Gene,
exactly, that's what I am referring to: A way to move the browse
mode
cursor through a page without triggering events in the browser. It
would feel lightning-fast, as it would only involve changing a
position in an internal textual representation fully managed by
NVDA
in its own process space. When hitting enter or the space bar to
interact with something, focus could then be brought to that
object.
The analogy in the sighted world is that of a touch screen: Just
looking at the contents does not generate events, and is therefore
not
slowed down by anything the browser needs to handle.
I am calling those events focus changes because technically that's
what they are. Focus, in this context, is the Windows concept
defined
as a control's responsibility for handling keyboard input. It's
hard
to describe without leaving a lot of dangling terms as it's a very
technical notion in Windows programming.
Best,
Felix

Am Fr., 21. Dez. 2018 um 15:29 Uhr schrieb Gene
<gsasner@gmail.com>:

I may Have misunderstood what you want to do and I may not have
the
technical knowledge to fully understand what you want changed.
Are
you
talking about being able to move through a web page and have
browse
mode
just show you the page, as though you had copied it into
something
like
Notepad? In that case, you would move, but nothing would ever
be
triggered on the page as you move. But you seem to be
discussing
this
related to a feature that allows a person to see where the blind
person
is on the page. If so, why are you assuming they are related?
Isn't
there already a setting to turn off this feature, used by
sighted
instructors or others working with a blind person?

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 8:14 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Browse mode and focus

I suspect that the JAWS cursor may see the web page text when
NVDA
review doesn't.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 5:06 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Browse mode and focus

Probably not, but if you can explain a little more clearly when
you
need
to
have it as you describe then we might be a bit wiser. Remember
not
everyone
has Jaws or uses all if its features, so we may learn something
here.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Felix G." <constantlyvariable@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 9:29 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Browse mode and focus


Hello Marcio,
I could only find checkboxes dealing with the conditions for
automatically switching to focus mode, but nothing related to
focus
changes. Those are completely different concepts. Are you sure
we
are
on the same page?
Best,
Felix

Am Fr., 21. Dez. 2018 um 09:45 Uhr schrieb marcio via
Groups.Io
<marcinhorj21=yahoo.com.br@groups.io>:

Hello,
You can configure it through the Settings, which can be found
at
the
NVDA
Menu (NVDA+N).
Search for browse mode, then uncheck the boxes on automatic
change
or
something like that. I don't know how it should appear because
I'm
not
using NVDA in English, but I hope it can help you somehow.

________________________________
Cheers,
Marcio
________________________________
Where to find me:
My Yahoo! email
Add me on Skype
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________________________________
Phone(s):
(+55)21-9-81615268 (Tim-RJ)
________________________________
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________________________________
Em 21/12/2018 05:53, Felix G. escreveu:

Hello list,
I'd like to ask how to keep focus from following the browse
mode
cursor. While this behavior may often be desirable, there are
many
instances in which it unnecessarily slows down the browsing
experience
as NVDA needs to constantly keep track of focus events,
deciding
whether or not they are related to browse mode cursor
movements.
With
unfortunate timing, NVDA sometimes fails to associate a
browse
mode
cursor action with its corresponding focus event and bounces
back
a
few lines or switches to forms mode because it thinks focus
has
changed asynchronously on behalf of the website rather than
the
user.
The sighted world analogy of moving the browse mode cursor is
simply
reading, which should not be associated with so many events in
the
browser.
If anyone would like to try out how the other behavior, as
also
seen
in JAWS, would feel in terms of speed: Go to a complex website
and
then navigate in browse mode, but not using the standard
arrow
keys
but instead the review cursor (numpad 7 and numpad 9).
All the best,
Felix






















Re: Best Wordprocesor

Gene
 

JARTE may not have the features needed for a business environment.  What features are you looking for?
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2018 10:47 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Best Wordprocesor

                                Try Jarte.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: kelby carlson
Sent: 26 December 2018 16:36
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Best Wordprocesor

 

In light of the confirmation that certain features of LibreOffice are

inaccessible, I'd be interested to know what everyone's vaorite word

processing application is. i mostly use Word, but am coming to really

hate its sluggishness and clutter and am hoping to find a different

one. It looks like LibreOffice and OpenOffice both have accessibility

issues that make them unsuitable for my work environment.

 

--

Kelby Carlson

 

 

 


Re: Best Wordprocesor

 

Kelby,

            Would you mind elaborating on what the accessibility issues are with LibreOffice and OpenOffice?   These are almost universally recommended as accessible options when Word is not available, and this is the first I've heard anyone state there are issues with them.

             Also, what version of Word are you using?   That can make a huge difference in its behavior.   Also, on what Windows platform?
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


Re: I am really loving Nvda's object navigation

Gene
 

I assume you saw the material Joseph Lee sent.  I shall assume, unless people ask questions or want clarification, that I needn't send any further discussion.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2018 1:24 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] I am really loving Nvda's object navigation

Gene, please discuss it. I, for one, some of us do not know.
Nevzat

On 12/25/18, Rosemarie Chavarria <knitqueen2007@...> wrote:
> Hi, Molly,
>
> I think screen review is a way to get around the screen when you can’t do it
> with just regular keystrokes.
>
> Rosemarie
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>
> From: molly the blind tech lover
> Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2018 9:53 AM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] I am really loving Nvda's object navigation
>
> Hey guys?
> What is screen review? I’ve never heard of it.
>
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sarah k
> Alawami
> Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2018 12:47 PM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] I am really loving Nvda's object navigation
>
> I never use screen review, I alwyas use object nav as for me I can get
> around and skip windows I don't want to see. the laptop layout even though
> I'm using a full sized keyboard as it just feels more like mac os for me.
> On 25 Dec 2018, at 7:11, Gene wrote:
> I don't use apps because I don't use versions of Windows newer than Windows
> 7.  But in standard applications, screen review, the equivalent of the JAWS
> cursor, can be more convenient and intuitive.  I don't know how many people
> following this thread use screen review but I think they both should be
> known.
>
> Screen review is very easy to explain in terms of how you switch to it and
> use it and I will discuss it if people want to know.
>
> Gene
> ----- Original Message -----
> Gene
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Joseph Lee
> Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2018 8:56 AM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] I am really loving Nvda's object navigation
>
> Hi,
> As I said multiple times before, screen review won’t work in newer apps, but
> I do agree that in some cases, screen review is helpful for some tasks.
> Cheers,
> Joseph
>
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
> Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2018 6:55 AM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] I am really loving Nvda's object navigation
>
> However, there are times when screen review provides access to the same
> things and is more convenient to use.  Object navigation can provide access
> to things at times that screen review can't.
>
> Gene
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Joseph Lee
> Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2018 8:47 AM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] I am really loving Nvda's object navigation
>
> Hi,
> One important thing to remember: I recommend using object navigation for
> cases where you can’t navigate with a keyboard. Object navigation commands
> (and for that matter, Golden Cursor add-on) won’t replace the value of using
> keyboard commands (let’s not go into Golden Cursor add-on, as it is way
> different than object navigation). Part of what makes NvDA useful (or for
> that matter, any screen reader useful) is distinguishing when different
> methods are appropriate.
> Cheers,
> Joseph
>
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of molly the blind
> tech lover
> Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2018 6:09 AM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] I am really loving Nvda's object navigation
>
> Hi.
> Happy holidays.
> I’ve not tried the golden cursor yet, but it sounds interesting. My goal is
> to be able to use object navigation in all my favorite apps, word, outlook,
> etc. It’ll probably make navigating them much easier. It really is neat.
>
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of David Moore
> Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2018 2:17 AM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] I am really loving Nvda's object navigation
>
> Yes!
> That is why I love NVDA so much!
> You can get to every element on the screen whether it be a toolbar, a button
> on the toolbar, or what ever!
> It is beautiful to have the Golden cursor add-on to navigate with the mouse
> as well!
> Go NVDA!
> Have a great holiday everyone!
>
>
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>
> From: molly the blind tech lover
> Sent: Monday, December 24, 2018 9:12 PM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: [nvda] I am really loving Nvda's object navigation
>
> Hey guys, Molly here again.
> I just like to say that I really like Nvda’s way of navigating objects. It
> is great to be able to press Nvda plus shift and the arrow keys to explore
> items on the screen I never thought were there. I am fascinated by how it
> works. It actually reminds me of how VoiceOver works on the Mac, but I don’t
> want to get in to that.
> Anyway, it’s very cool.
> Happy Holidays
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>