Date   

Re: NVDA going silent.

 

Well technically with things like cloud protection, if someone gets infected with it first, as well as using its own datasets, it can draw from others that have had the same malware to update its databases etc.

On 12/29/2018 7:12 PM, Gene wrote:
Windows Defender was poorly rated for a year or two. it is now considered to be a reasonably good program. It may be considered better than that now, I'm not sure. it has been improving in quality over the last two or three years.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: MAX
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2018 11:53 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA going silent.


I have the paid version of Malware bytes. I also have windows defender turned on for what it’s worth.



73 (Regards).


Max K 4 O D S.


I've Never Lost the Wonder.


Antique Electronics Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2018 12:18 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA going silent.


Looks like malware on your system. Have you done any scanns with any apps you have to detect this?

Take care

On 28 Dec 2018, at 10:08, MAX wrote:

Popups are set to block.


Each popup begins with message from google chrome.


Some examples I can remember are,


1. do this before going to bed and burn fat overnight

2. Get whiter teeth.

3. New rule in somewhere south Carolina has drivers upset.


Each one was repeated several times.



73 (Regards).


Max K 4 O D S.


I've Never Lost the Wonder.


Antique Electronics Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of David Goldfield
Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2018 10:41 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA going silent.


In Chrome, there is a setting to block pop-ups which should be on by default. It might be helpful to access your Chrome settings just to ensure that the setting is set to blocking popups.


1. When in Chrome, press alt-F for the Chrome menu.

2. Press S for Settings.

3. Activate the Advanced button.

4. Activate the Content Settings button.

5. Look for the Popup button or you could press insert-ctrl-F to bring up the NVDA find dialog and type the word "pop" without the quotes. Make sure that it is set to "blocked."

If popups still occur could you tell us a little more about the type of pages which are appearing? Does this behavior happen when you're viewing specific sites?

If the problem occurs more often than not I do think that it would be very good to perform a scan of your system to see if any malware has been detected. Which antivirus or antimalware programs do you use? For a second opinion I'd recommend installing the free version of MalwareBytes to see if it detects anything.



David Goldfield, Assistive Technology Specialist WWW.David-Goldfield.Com

On 12/27/2018 9:11 PM, Gene wrote:

I seem to recall we may have discussed popups with Chrome before. I think its adware. I don't recall hearing about what you are discussing in Chrome in cases other than adware.


If you don't want to investigate that problem, then it would be a good good idea to start using Firefox. If you can use Internet Explorer and if it works properly on the sites you want to use, you may want to just use it for now, but over time, Internet Explorer will work with increasingly fewer sites.


Gene

----- Original message -----

From: MAX

Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2018 7:56 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA going silent.


It happened just now. When I pressed nvda key + N the menu came up. I arrowed around the menu and speech came back on. So there is another way to restore it. The two programs I had running were outlook 2013 and internet explorer. Chrome has become unusable because of the popups Which are greater in number every time I open it.



73 (Regards).


Max K 4 O D S.


I've Never Lost the Wonder.


Antique Electronics Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2018 10:10 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA going silent.


We don't know if there is a problem with speech or if the program stops running. You can't assume that just because speech stops, that the problem is with speech. When this happens, run Narrator or another screen-reader. Then try opening the NVDA menu. Does the menu open? If so, the problem has something to do with speech while NVDA is running. It may be a synthesizer problem or it may be an NVDA problem. If the menu doesn't open, then NVDA is no longer running which is an entirely different problem.


Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: MAX

Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2018 10:00 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA going silent.


I don't understand what you mean by sleep mode. I turned off character speak using nvda key 2 but it didn't keep it from going into its silent mode. It's in it right now. I hope this message will make sense as I am not getting any beeping feedback. Or reading of lines as I up and down arrow.


73 (Regards).

Max K 4 O D S.

I've Never Lost the Wonder.

Antique Electronics Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss
Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2018 8:32 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA going silent.

Actually if you toggle it to sleep mode and turn off typing letters its actually able to work for you if you run long passages as long as you don't hit control



On 12/26/2018 2:47 PM, MAX wrote:
> I got a wry smile out of the recent thread from people who wanted to
> keep NVDA from speaking. It does that all the time to me although I
> don't want it too. I have found that if I am running two or more
> programs in windows
> 10 that at some random time after starting the second program that
> NVDA will go silent. No amount of tabbing or arrowing will cure its case of
> laryngitis. So far the only way I can restore its voice is to press
> control alt N to restart it. Is there a quicker way to start it
> talking again?
>
>
> 73 (Regards).
>
> Max. K 4 O DS.
>
> I've Never Lost the Wonder.
>
> Email: max@...
>
> Vacuum Tube Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/
> Transistor site: http://www.angelfire.com/planet/funwithtransistors/
> Woodworking site:
> http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/Woodworking/wwindex.h
> tml Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com
>
> To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to.
> Funwithtransistors+subscribe@groups.io
>
> To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to,
> funwithtubes+subscribe@groups.io
>
> To subscribe to the fun with wood group send a blank email to
> funwithwood+subscribe@groups.io
>
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Re: NVDA going silent.

Gene
 

This isn't  Google and it isn't Chrome.  It is adware on your machine.  Others, including me, have said that we don't get such popups.  Chrome is by far the most popular Windows browser at present.  it wouldn't be if it subjected people to what you are experiencing.
 
It doesn't matter where the popups say they come from.  Maybe the adware is trying to make the popups appear as though they come from Chrome to try to make them appear more credible or make people think they are being shown by the browser.  They are definitely not coming from Chrome.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: MAX
Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2018 12:45 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA going silent.

I pulled the Firefox shortcut out of my rarely used folder and put it on the desktop.  The menus were there as was the quick start favorites bar.  I set it as default browser, and my home page.  That was easier than chrome or MS edge.  I haven’t seen any popups yet.  I’ll try it for a few days and see how it goes.  NVDA seems a bit more responsive than with other browsers but time will tell.   I wonder if google knows they are driving users away with their popups.  Each popup announced that it was from google chrome.  I don’t have popups from any other program.  I think the malware on my computer is google chrome.

 

 

73 (Regards).

 

Max K 4 O D S.

 

I've Never Lost the Wonder.

 

Antique Electronics Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2018 1:41 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA going silent.

 

What you are describing regarding popups are all signs of adware.  Chrome has its own popup blocker and adware can show popups anyway.  If you install a popup blocker, adware can show popups. 

 

Firefox has menus.  If you pressed alt and no menus came up, the browser was set to full screen.  If a program has a full screen setting and its on, you can't bring up menus because the entire screen is used for the displayed content.  Sighted people wouldn't see menus either.  To put the program back to normal, press f11.  That is the standard key in Windows programs to toggle between full screen on and off.  Full screen isn't the same as maximizing a program.  You can maximize a program with no problems. 

 

As far as a bookmark bar is concerned, if you mean the one in Chrome you can get to with f6, there isn't one in Firefox.  But Firefox works very well with bookmarks.  Use control b and you will bring up a bookmarks menu very similar to that in internet Explorer.  There is also a very good search bookmarks feature in firefox.  I won't explain that in this message but I will if you want to try it. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: MAX

Sent: Friday, December 28, 2018 11:44 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA going silent.

 

Yes, we had a discussion about popups in Chrome and I set the option to no popups with no results.  I also installed a popup blocker but it didn’t do anything to solve the problem.  The last time I tried Firefox I couldn’t find any kind of menu navigation.  Without that I couldn’t set it as the default browser or import bookmarks.  Also I don’t think it has a favorites bar which I use all the time. 

 

 

73 (Regards).

 

Max K 4 O D S.

 

I've Never Lost the Wonder.

 

Antique Electronics Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2018 8:12 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA going silent.

 

I seem to recall we may have discussed popups with Chrome before.  I think its adware.  I don't recall hearing about what you are discussing in Chrome in cases other than adware.

 

If you don't want to investigate that problem, then it would be a good good idea to start using Firefox.  If you can use Internet Explorer and if it works properly on the sites you want to use, you may want to just use it for now, but over time, Internet Explorer will work with increasingly fewer sites.

 

Gene

----- Original message -----

From: MAX

Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2018 7:56 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA going silent.

 

It happened just now.  When I pressed nvda key + N the menu came up.  I arrowed around the menu and speech came back on.  So there is another way to restore it.  The two programs I had running were outlook 2013 and internet explorer.  Chrome has become unusable because of the popups Which are greater in number every time I open it.

 

 

73 (Regards).

 

Max K 4 O D S.

 

I've Never Lost the Wonder.

 

Antique Electronics Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2018 10:10 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA going silent.

 

We don't know if there is a problem with speech or if the program stops running.  You can't assume that just because speech stops, that the problem is with speech.  When this happens, run Narrator or another screen-reader.  Then try opening the NVDA menu.  Does the menu open?  If so, the problem has something to do with speech while NVDA is running.  It may be a synthesizer problem or it may be an NVDA problem.  If the menu doesn't open, then NVDA is no longer running which is an entirely different problem. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: MAX

Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2018 10:00 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA going silent.

 

I don't understand what you mean by sleep mode.  I turned off character speak using nvda key 2 but it didn't keep it from going into its silent mode.  It's in it right now.  I hope this message will make sense as I am not getting any beeping feedback.  Or reading of lines as I up and down arrow.


73 (Regards).

Max K 4 O D S.

I've Never Lost the Wonder.

Antique Electronics Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss
Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2018 8:32 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA going silent.

Actually if you toggle it to sleep mode and turn off typing letters its actually able to work for you if you run long passages as long as you don't hit control



On 12/26/2018 2:47 PM, MAX wrote:
> I got a wry smile out of the recent thread from people who wanted to
> keep NVDA from speaking.  It does that all the time to me although I
> don't want it too. I have found that if I am running two or more
> programs in windows
> 10 that at some random time after starting the second program that
> NVDA will go silent.  No amount of tabbing or arrowing will cure its case of
> laryngitis.   So far the only way I can restore its voice is to press
> control alt N to restart it.  Is there a quicker way to start it
> talking again?
>
>
> 73 (Regards).
>
> Max.  K 4 O DS.
>
> I've Never Lost the Wonder.
>
> Email: max@...
>
> Vacuum Tube  Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/
> Transistor site: http://www.angelfire.com/planet/funwithtransistors/
> Woodworking site:
> http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/Woodworking/wwindex.h
> tml Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com
>
> To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to.
> Funwithtransistors+subscribe@groups.io
>
> To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to,
> funwithtubes+subscribe@groups.io
>
> To subscribe to the fun with wood group send a blank email to
> funwithwood+subscribe@groups.io
>
>
>
>
>
>



Re: NVDA going silent.

MAX <max@...>
 

I pulled the Firefox shortcut out of my rarely used folder and put it on the desktop.  The menus were there as was the quick start favorites bar.  I set it as default browser, and my home page.  That was easier than chrome or MS edge.  I haven’t seen any popups yet.  I’ll try it for a few days and see how it goes.  NVDA seems a bit more responsive than with other browsers but time will tell.   I wonder if google knows they are driving users away with their popups.  Each popup announced that it was from google chrome.  I don’t have popups from any other program.  I think the malware on my computer is google chrome.

 

 

73 (Regards).

 

Max K 4 O D S.

 

I've Never Lost the Wonder.

 

Antique Electronics Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2018 1:41 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA going silent.

 

What you are describing regarding popups are all signs of adware.  Chrome has its own popup blocker and adware can show popups anyway.  If you install a popup blocker, adware can show popups. 

 

Firefox has menus.  If you pressed alt and no menus came up, the browser was set to full screen.  If a program has a full screen setting and its on, you can't bring up menus because the entire screen is used for the displayed content.  Sighted people wouldn't see menus either.  To put the program back to normal, press f11.  That is the standard key in Windows programs to toggle between full screen on and off.  Full screen isn't the same as maximizing a program.  You can maximize a program with no problems. 

 

As far as a bookmark bar is concerned, if you mean the one in Chrome you can get to with f6, there isn't one in Firefox.  But Firefox works very well with bookmarks.  Use control b and you will bring up a bookmarks menu very similar to that in internet Explorer.  There is also a very good search bookmarks feature in firefox.  I won't explain that in this message but I will if you want to try it. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: MAX

Sent: Friday, December 28, 2018 11:44 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA going silent.

 

Yes, we had a discussion about popups in Chrome and I set the option to no popups with no results.  I also installed a popup blocker but it didn’t do anything to solve the problem.  The last time I tried Firefox I couldn’t find any kind of menu navigation.  Without that I couldn’t set it as the default browser or import bookmarks.  Also I don’t think it has a favorites bar which I use all the time. 

 

 

73 (Regards).

 

Max K 4 O D S.

 

I've Never Lost the Wonder.

 

Antique Electronics Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2018 8:12 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA going silent.

 

I seem to recall we may have discussed popups with Chrome before.  I think its adware.  I don't recall hearing about what you are discussing in Chrome in cases other than adware.

 

If you don't want to investigate that problem, then it would be a good good idea to start using Firefox.  If you can use Internet Explorer and if it works properly on the sites you want to use, you may want to just use it for now, but over time, Internet Explorer will work with increasingly fewer sites.

 

Gene

----- Original message -----

From: MAX

Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2018 7:56 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA going silent.

 

It happened just now.  When I pressed nvda key + N the menu came up.  I arrowed around the menu and speech came back on.  So there is another way to restore it.  The two programs I had running were outlook 2013 and internet explorer.  Chrome has become unusable because of the popups Which are greater in number every time I open it.

 

 

73 (Regards).

 

Max K 4 O D S.

 

I've Never Lost the Wonder.

 

Antique Electronics Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2018 10:10 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA going silent.

 

We don't know if there is a problem with speech or if the program stops running.  You can't assume that just because speech stops, that the problem is with speech.  When this happens, run Narrator or another screen-reader.  Then try opening the NVDA menu.  Does the menu open?  If so, the problem has something to do with speech while NVDA is running.  It may be a synthesizer problem or it may be an NVDA problem.  If the menu doesn't open, then NVDA is no longer running which is an entirely different problem. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: MAX

Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2018 10:00 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA going silent.

 

I don't understand what you mean by sleep mode.  I turned off character speak using nvda key 2 but it didn't keep it from going into its silent mode.  It's in it right now.  I hope this message will make sense as I am not getting any beeping feedback.  Or reading of lines as I up and down arrow.


73 (Regards).

Max K 4 O D S.

I've Never Lost the Wonder.

Antique Electronics Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss
Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2018 8:32 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA going silent.

Actually if you toggle it to sleep mode and turn off typing letters its actually able to work for you if you run long passages as long as you don't hit control



On 12/26/2018 2:47 PM, MAX wrote:
> I got a wry smile out of the recent thread from people who wanted to
> keep NVDA from speaking.  It does that all the time to me although I
> don't want it too. I have found that if I am running two or more
> programs in windows
> 10 that at some random time after starting the second program that
> NVDA will go silent.  No amount of tabbing or arrowing will cure its case of
> laryngitis.   So far the only way I can restore its voice is to press
> control alt N to restart it.  Is there a quicker way to start it
> talking again?
>
>
> 73 (Regards).
>
> Max.  K 4 O DS.
>
> I've Never Lost the Wonder.
>
> Email: max@...
>
> Vacuum Tube  Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/
> Transistor site: http://www.angelfire.com/planet/funwithtransistors/
> Woodworking site:
> http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/Woodworking/wwindex.h
> tml Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com
>
> To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to.
> Funwithtransistors+subscribe@groups.io
>
> To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to,
> funwithtubes+subscribe@groups.io
>
> To subscribe to the fun with wood group send a blank email to
> funwithwood+subscribe@groups.io
>
>
>
>
>
>



Re: Sluggish user experience on Facebook

David Goldfield
 

I realize that the tone of my last message may have sounded more negative than I might have liked. I should also say, in fairness, that NVDA, in most cases, is not overly sluggish. The biggest issue I've had was with Word but enabling the experimental UIA support has really made a difference. I'm doing a few comparisons to see if some synthesizers are more responsive than others. Lately, I have been using the legal Eloquence driver from Code Factory but I find that the Vocalizer voices from Code Factory have really improved with UIA support enabled, particularly when typing in a Word document. If we could see a similar change on the Web it would really improve NVDA's responsiveness. Tony Malykh's experimental focus toggle add-on also seems to help with responsiveness.

David Goldfield, Assistive Technology Specialist WWW.David-Goldfield.Com

On 12/28/2018 9:42 PM, David Goldfield wrote:

I have a few comments I'd like to add to this thread.

First, I know that one of the reasons why the latency issues don't always plague me as much is that I usually disable character and word echo while typing. Silent keyboard entry means that I don't encounter latency issues, at least for that particular task.

I also suspect few people are sounding the alarm about this because, if I had to guess, few people may actually be running into serious latency issues. At work I have access to two separate laptops. Both of them have 16 GB of RAM and an I7 processor and I must say, in fairness to NVDA, that the latency issues I run into at home are almost nonexistent on those particular laptops. When compared to JAWS, I still notice a very slight difference but they are not significant enough to get in the way of typing, editing and reading text. This is true even in Word 2013 and Word 2016, where performance is certainly acceptable.

Where I notice the issues we're talking about are on my home Optiplex desktop. It's much slower compared to the laptops I use at work, with 8 GB of RAM and a dual core Athlon processor, 2.8 Ghz. I'll admit that when this PC was first made I believe it may have first come preinstalled with Windows Vista. When I bought it as a refurbished unit it had Windows 7. I added more RAM, an SSD and upgraded to Windows 10. Some might argue that maybe I should consider purchasing a new computer and, eventually, I'm sure that I will. However, when I use JAWS 2019 I notice that the latency I experience with NVDA is practically nonexistent. In no way do I mean to start an NVDA vs. JAWS debate on this list. That's not the purpose of my response. However, one of the things that I think should be a high priority with a screen reader is responsiveness and eliminating latency wherever possible. For most people on most machines NVDA is pretty good in this regard which, again, is probably why so few people are reporting issues. Being a small organization NV Access may have to choose to not prioritize on an issue which may only be affecting a small percentage of their users and this makes sense to me. However, I would respectfully counter that by saying that NV Access's goal is to put a high-quality screen reader into the hands of any blind person who needs one, regardless of their location and of the language that they speak. While many of us either have access to or can afford a new computer the fact is that many cannot and I am sure there are many consumers around the world who may need to use slightly older technology with their screen reader. I realize that we have to strike a reasonable balance here, which is why NVDA, as an example, no longer supports Windows XP. This makes sense to me. However, like Tony I wish that some refactoring could be done with the goal of improving the responsiveness of the speech, with the goal of making the experience more like JAWS, if not better.

Again, this is not meant to start a screen reader debate nor is it meant to trash NVDA in favor of JAWS. I would just like to see these latency issues addressed. However, to be fair a company isn't going to make such a massive development effort a priority if the perception is that this is not a problem for most or even nearly all of its users and I can also respect that.

David Goldfield, Assistive Technology Specialist WWW.David-Goldfield.Com
On 12/28/2018 12:32 PM, Tony Malykh wrote:
Hi Felix,
I'm on your side - I think sluggishness in NVDA is a problem, in fact
a big one, and I wish NVDA developers could do something about that.
Facebook is not the only web site that has these issues, I experience
the same problems on gmail and private web sites of company I work
for. I have to switch to JAWS to browse these sites every time just
because all these symptoms with NVDA are unbearable and makes these
web sites completely unusable.

I think another problem with these issues is that the majority of NVDA
users don't seem to be bothered by this issue, judging from reaction
on this list. I think that:

1. People's typing speed differs a lot. I tend to type very fast,
which probably exacerbates this issue for me. People who type slower
might not be that annoyed by this issue, as for example the focus is
sucked into edit boxes only when you're going through them quickly.
Felix, are you a quick typer as well?
2. Maybe people tend to stay away from these web sites that they
cannot figure out how to use. Since Facebook is glitching with NVDA,
blind people will have hard time to learn it and will use for example
twitter instead. It becomes a chicken and egg problem. NVDA devs won't
fix an issue that doesn't affect many users. And it won't affect many
users because the issue is there to begin with.
3. In my experience the severity of this problem depends on the
browser. Glitching in Google Chrome seems to be several times worse
that in Firefox.

Anyway, these are just some thoughts. I wish I could help convince
NVDA devs to have a closer look into this, but looking at github
issues, this problem has been known since at least 2012 so I think
it's unlikely it's going to be fixed any time soon. Unless we can find
enough people bothered by this and maybe like file a petition. If I
had more time, I might have tried to fix it myself, but unfortunatley
I don't have much spare time. So in the meantime - I'll have to switch
back and forth to Jaws.

Best
Tony



On 12/28/18, Felix G. <constantlyvariable@...> wrote:
Hello Enes and list,
sorry for my potentially confusing remark. I was not contrasting our
user experience with that of sighted users. Rather, I was implying
that some peculiarity of Facebook or the affected browsers might give
screen readers in general a hard time, and not just NVDA specifically.
So I did some testing, that is, I performed some comparative screen
reader theology, with the following results:
The late Window-Eyes, digital peace be upon it, occupies the slow end
of the speed scale combined with the high end of the accuracy scale.
You tend to get to wait quite some time for an answer, but when that
answer finally arrives, it is accurate to the degree of fully
supporting the weight of subsequent interactions.
JAWS seems to take quite the opposite approach, erring, when it does,
in favor of speed. There is the occasional unsolicited switch to focus
mode, as well as the occasional double-speaking of text, but the
snappy experience minimizes these frustrations.
NVDA currently takes what I call, from my perspective, the unfortunate
middle ground of this tradeoff. Applying this observation to Facebook,
it means that the experience is slow enough to feel sluggish, and just
unpredictable enough to feel nondeterministic as well. One can clearly
spot all the good intentions with which this particular road to hell
has been paved, so I wouldn't consider this proof that anything is
being consciously ignored, but the result, at least for me, combines
the worst of both worlds enough to make me switch screen readers when
using Facebook.
If, as Enes suggests, this observation applies to a broader category
of websites of which Facebook is just one prominent example, the
approach taken by NVDA in interacting with browsers deserves
reconsideration. Given the dynamic nature of todays's web, I strongly
suggest favoring speed over complete consistency. Selectively
decoupling focus from virtual cursor position, and re-coupling them on
demand, may be an effective first step in the right direction, as some
isolated speed cost when activating an element is allowable while a
permanent speed cost while navigating is clearly not.
All the best,
Felix

Am Do., 27. Dez. 2018 um 22:28 Uhr schrieb enes sarıbaş
<enes.saribas@...>:
hi,

Yes, as sighted obviously do not have this problem, or we would've heard
more about by now.

On 12/27/2018 7:49 PM, Felix G. wrote:
Hi,
so you're certain it's an NVDA issue rather than a Facebook or browser
one?
Best,
Felix

Am Do., 27. Dez. 2018 um 20:43 Uhr schrieb enes sarıbaş
<enes.saribas@...>:
hi,

This is an NVDA issue which has existed for about a few centuries,
which
is also ignored by the devs. This happens not only in facebook, but in
many websites with dynamically changing content, or with dialogues,
for
instance, the Oxford scholarship online database my university
subscribes to. This has to do with the way NVDA interacts with the
browser, however a better way was not implemented.

On 12/27/2018 7:29 PM, Felix G. wrote:
Hi everyone,
is anyone else noticing that when arrowing or otherwise navigating
Facebook's standard view, the interface tends to slow down to a
crawl?
In addition, I am experiencing the virtual cursor randomly jumping
back a few lines, resulting in lines being read twice, and random
switches to focus mode.
Are there any known remedies, except of course switching to mobile
view, which is not even recommended to blind users by Facebook
itself?
All the best,
Felix







Re: NVDA going silent.

Gene
 

Windows Defender was poorly rated for a year or two.  it is now considered to be a reasonably good program. It may be considered better than that now, I'm not sure.  it has been improving in quality over the last two or three years. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: MAX
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2018 11:53 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA going silent.

I have the paid version of Malware bytes.  I also have windows defender turned on for what it’s worth.

 

 

73 (Regards).

 

Max K 4 O D S.

 

I've Never Lost the Wonder.

 

Antique Electronics Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2018 12:18 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA going silent.

 

Looks like malware on your system. Have you done any scanns with any apps you have to detect this?

Take care

On 28 Dec 2018, at 10:08, MAX wrote:

Popups are set to block.

 

Each popup begins with message from google chrome.

 

Some examples I can remember are,

 

1.        do this before going to bed and burn fat overnight

2.       Get whiter teeth.

3.       New rule in somewhere south Carolina  has drivers upset.

 

Each one was repeated several times.

 

 

73 (Regards).

 

Max K 4 O D S.

 

I've Never Lost the Wonder.

 

Antique Electronics Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of David Goldfield
Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2018 10:41 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA going silent.

 

In Chrome, there is a setting to block pop-ups which should be on by default. It might be helpful to access your Chrome settings just to ensure that the setting is set to blocking popups.

 

1. When in Chrome, press alt-F for the Chrome menu.

2. Press S for Settings.

3. Activate the Advanced button.

4. Activate the Content Settings button.

5. Look for the Popup button or you could press insert-ctrl-F to bring up the NVDA find dialog and type the word "pop" without the quotes. Make sure that it is set to "blocked."

If popups still occur could you tell us a little more about the type of pages which are appearing? Does this behavior happen when you're viewing specific sites?

If the problem occurs more often than not I do think that it would be very good to perform a scan of your system to see if any malware has been detected. Which antivirus or antimalware programs do you use? For a second opinion I'd recommend installing the free version of MalwareBytes to see if it detects anything.

 

 

David Goldfield, Assistive Technology Specialist WWW.David-Goldfield.Com

On 12/27/2018 9:11 PM, Gene wrote:

I seem to recall we may have discussed popups with Chrome before.  I think its adware.  I don't recall hearing about what you are discussing in Chrome in cases other than adware.

 

If you don't want to investigate that problem, then it would be a good good idea to start using Firefox.  If you can use Internet Explorer and if it works properly on the sites you want to use, you may want to just use it for now, but over time, Internet Explorer will work with increasingly fewer sites.

 

Gene

----- Original message -----

From: MAX

Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2018 7:56 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA going silent.

 

It happened just now.  When I pressed nvda key + N the menu came up.  I arrowed around the menu and speech came back on.  So there is another way to restore it.  The two programs I had running were outlook 2013 and internet explorer.  Chrome has become unusable because of the popups Which are greater in number every time I open it.

 

 

73 (Regards).

 

Max K 4 O D S.

 

I've Never Lost the Wonder.

 

Antique Electronics Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2018 10:10 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA going silent.

 

We don't know if there is a problem with speech or if the program stops running.  You can't assume that just because speech stops, that the problem is with speech.  When this happens, run Narrator or another screen-reader.  Then try opening the NVDA menu.  Does the menu open?  If so, the problem has something to do with speech while NVDA is running.  It may be a synthesizer problem or it may be an NVDA problem.  If the menu doesn't open, then NVDA is no longer running which is an entirely different problem. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: MAX

Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2018 10:00 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA going silent.

 

I don't understand what you mean by sleep mode.  I turned off character speak using nvda key 2 but it didn't keep it from going into its silent mode.  It's in it right now.  I hope this message will make sense as I am not getting any beeping feedback.  Or reading of lines as I up and down arrow.


73 (Regards).

Max K 4 O D S.

I've Never Lost the Wonder.

Antique Electronics Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss
Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2018 8:32 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA going silent.

Actually if you toggle it to sleep mode and turn off typing letters its actually able to work for you if you run long passages as long as you don't hit control



On 12/26/2018 2:47 PM, MAX wrote:
> I got a wry smile out of the recent thread from people who wanted to
> keep NVDA from speaking.  It does that all the time to me although I
> don't want it too. I have found that if I am running two or more
> programs in windows
> 10 that at some random time after starting the second program that
> NVDA will go silent.  No amount of tabbing or arrowing will cure its case of
> laryngitis.   So far the only way I can restore its voice is to press
> control alt N to restart it.  Is there a quicker way to start it
> talking again?
>
>
> 73 (Regards).
>
> Max.  K 4 O DS.
>
> I've Never Lost the Wonder.
>
> Email: max@...
>
> Vacuum Tube  Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/
> Transistor site: http://www.angelfire.com/planet/funwithtransistors/
> Woodworking site:
> http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/Woodworking/wwindex.h
> tml Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com
>
> To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to.
> Funwithtransistors+subscribe@groups.io
>
> To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to,
> funwithtubes+subscribe@groups.io
>
> To subscribe to the fun with wood group send a blank email to
> funwithwood+subscribe@groups.io
>
>
>
>
>
>



Re: Browse mode and focus

David Goldfield
 

Tony,

I meant to thank you for this addon. As you say it does seem to improve responsiveness while accessing the Web and so I'm very grateful that you took the time to write and release this.

Thank you for your service.

David Goldfield, Assistive Technology Specialist WWW.David-Goldfield.Com

On 12/25/2018 2:47 PM, Tony Malykh wrote:
I just wrote a tiny add-on that prevents NVDA from sending focus
events to the browser.
Binary:
https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fmltony%2Fnvda-super-browser%2Freleases%2Fdownload%2Fv0.1dev%2Fsuperbrowser-0.1dev.nvda-addon&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C3154617091b9454bcc3608d66aa1c72b%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636813640388529360&amp;sdata=eTebXXud1KO6xO2fZbS5GsH%2BOfft7%2B2s94W7ItAVCQQ%3D&amp;reserved=0
Source and description:
https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fmltony%2Fnvda-super-browser%2F&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C3154617091b9454bcc3608d66aa1c72b%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636813640388529360&amp;sdata=mrmdXsR7tcB76B%2BRMmiDNu3wIqzO05CGCc7X3jNQfas%3D&amp;reserved=0
Press NVDA+8 to turn focus sending to browsers on and off.
It's not a production-ready add-on, as it introduces a lot of side
effects when not sending focus events. However, it'll give you an idea
how much faster and more responsive your browsing experience  might
become without these focus events being sent back and forth.


On 12/21/18, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
Are you sure you have automatic switching off in NVDA?  I never have browse
mode turn off when I have the automatic switching feature off.  I have
repeatedly said that automatic switching should not be on by default.  It is
not a setting that people should have on unless they know about it and
understand exactly how it works.

And to confuse unknowledgeable and learning users more, it automatically
switches modes when you move in some ways and it doesn't switch when you
move in other ways.  People learning how to use the internet should not have
this feature confusing them and making it harder to learn.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Tony Malykh
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 1:11 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Browse mode and focus


I must also add that edit boxes sporadically entering forms mode is a
very big problem for me. At work I have to use a website that contains
an edit box that somehow always enters forms mode and once this
happens, the web site opens a popup dialog somewhere in the end of the
page and brings the focus there. So there is no easy way to go past
that edit box and the entire website becomes unusable. I know, this is
probably not a very screenreader-friendly website, but Jaws manages to
work fine with it somehow. I would say that this problem is one of the
major disadvantages of NVDA compared to Jaws.

On 12/21/18, Tony Malykh via Groups.Io <anton.malykh@...>
wrote:
Hi Felix,
I experience all the same problems as you described: rubber band
browse mode cursor jumping back on large webpages, and also edit boxes
automatically entering forms mode even though I didn't ask them to.
It's good to know that this is a known issue, but this indeed seems
like a complicated issue to fix.
1. It seems to me that adding a switch like "browse mode cursor moves
system focus" would be a very useful fix in the short term. We already
have a "caret moves review cursor" switch bound to NVDA+6 - so it
seems to be just a question of adding another switch like this. I have
to say that most of the web sites work fine for me with current NVDA
behavior, and for those websites that don't work very well, this new
switch might come very handy.
2. Do you know how Jaws works around this problem? Do they not update
system focus at all when in browse mode? Or they only update it when
they realise that some other gesture might require updated focus?

Best
Tony


On 12/21/18, Felix G. <constantlyvariable@...> wrote:
Just found a ticket on this problem:
https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fnvaccess%2Fnvda%2Fissues%2F2039&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C3154617091b9454bcc3608d66aa1c72b%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636813640388529360&amp;sdata=%2BjIsiaGma9V0Ym0juy2COLOD1v1Dq9HThNIY3tzkOpE%3D&amp;reserved=0
Best,
Felix

Am Fr., 21. Dez. 2018 um 15:51 Uhr schrieb Felix G. via Groups.Io
<constantlyvariable@...>:
Hello Gene,
exactly, that's what I am referring to: A way to move the browse mode
cursor through a page without triggering events in the browser. It
would feel lightning-fast, as it would only involve changing a
position in an internal textual representation fully managed by NVDA
in its own process space. When hitting enter or the space bar to
interact with something, focus could then be brought to that object.
The analogy in the sighted world is that of a touch screen: Just
looking at the contents does not generate events, and is therefore not
slowed down by anything the browser needs to handle.
I am calling those events focus changes because technically that's
what they are. Focus, in this context, is the Windows concept defined
as a control's responsibility for handling keyboard input. It's hard
to describe without leaving a lot of dangling terms as it's a very
technical notion in Windows programming.
Best,
Felix

Am Fr., 21. Dez. 2018 um 15:29 Uhr schrieb Gene <gsasner@...>:
I may Have misunderstood what you want to do and I may not have the
technical knowledge to fully understand what you want changed.  Are
you
talking about being able to move through a web page and have browse
mode
just show you the page, as though you had copied it into something
like
Notepad?  In that case, you would move, but nothing would ever be
triggered on the page as you move.  But you seem to be discussing
this
related to a feature that allows a person to see where the blind
person
is on the page.  If so, why are you assuming they are related?  Isn't
there already a setting to turn off this feature, used by sighted
instructors or others working with a blind person?

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 8:14 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Browse mode and focus

I suspect that the JAWS cursor may see the web page text when NVDA
review doesn't.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 5:06 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Browse mode and focus

Probably not, but if you can explain a little more clearly when you
need
to
have it as you describe then we might be a bit wiser. Remember not
everyone
has Jaws or uses all if its features, so we may learn something here.
 Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Felix G." <constantlyvariable@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 9:29 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Browse mode and focus


Hello Marcio,
I could only find checkboxes dealing with the conditions for
automatically switching to focus mode, but nothing related to focus
changes. Those are completely different concepts. Are you sure we
are
on the same page?
Best,
Felix

Am Fr., 21. Dez. 2018 um 09:45 Uhr schrieb marcio via Groups.Io
<marcinhorj21@...>:
Hello,
You can configure it through the Settings, which can be found at
the
NVDA
Menu (NVDA+N).
Search for browse mode, then uncheck the boxes on automatic change
or
something like that. I don't know how it should appear because I'm
not
using NVDA in English, but I hope it can help you somehow.

________________________________
Cheers,
Marcio
________________________________
Where to find me:
My Yahoo! email
Add me on Skype
Follow me on Twitter
Follow or add me on Facebook
Ask me something on CuriousCat
________________________________
Phone(s):
(+55)21-9-81615268 (Tim-RJ)
________________________________
My WhatsApp
________________________________
Em 21/12/2018 05:53, Felix G. escreveu:

Hello list,
I'd like to ask how to keep focus from following the browse mode
cursor. While this behavior may often be desirable, there are many
instances in which it unnecessarily slows down the browsing
experience
as NVDA needs to constantly keep track of focus events, deciding
whether or not they are related to browse mode cursor movements.
With
unfortunate timing, NVDA sometimes fails to associate a browse
mode
cursor action with its corresponding focus event and bounces back
a
few lines or switches to forms mode because it thinks focus has
changed asynchronously on behalf of the website rather than the
user.
The sighted world analogy of moving the browse mode cursor is
simply
reading, which should not be associated with so many events in the
browser.
If anyone would like to try out how the other behavior, as also
seen
in JAWS, would feel in terms of speed: Go to a complex website and
then navigate in browse mode, but not using the standard arrow
keys
but instead the review cursor (numpad 7 and numpad 9).
All the best,
Felix



























Re: NVDA going silent.

MAX <max@...>
 

I have the paid version of Malware bytes.  I also have windows defender turned on for what it’s worth.

 

 

73 (Regards).

 

Max K 4 O D S.

 

I've Never Lost the Wonder.

 

Antique Electronics Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2018 12:18 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA going silent.

 

Looks like malware on your system. Have you done any scanns with any apps you have to detect this?

Take care

On 28 Dec 2018, at 10:08, MAX wrote:

Popups are set to block.

 

Each popup begins with message from google chrome.

 

Some examples I can remember are,

 

1.        do this before going to bed and burn fat overnight

2.       Get whiter teeth.

3.       New rule in somewhere south Carolina  has drivers upset.

 

Each one was repeated several times.

 

 

73 (Regards).

 

Max K 4 O D S.

 

I've Never Lost the Wonder.

 

Antique Electronics Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of David Goldfield
Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2018 10:41 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA going silent.

 

In Chrome, there is a setting to block pop-ups which should be on by default. It might be helpful to access your Chrome settings just to ensure that the setting is set to blocking popups.

 

1. When in Chrome, press alt-F for the Chrome menu.

2. Press S for Settings.

3. Activate the Advanced button.

4. Activate the Content Settings button.

5. Look for the Popup button or you could press insert-ctrl-F to bring up the NVDA find dialog and type the word "pop" without the quotes. Make sure that it is set to "blocked."

If popups still occur could you tell us a little more about the type of pages which are appearing? Does this behavior happen when you're viewing specific sites?

If the problem occurs more often than not I do think that it would be very good to perform a scan of your system to see if any malware has been detected. Which antivirus or antimalware programs do you use? For a second opinion I'd recommend installing the free version of MalwareBytes to see if it detects anything.

 

 

David Goldfield, Assistive Technology Specialist WWW.David-Goldfield.Com

On 12/27/2018 9:11 PM, Gene wrote:

I seem to recall we may have discussed popups with Chrome before.  I think its adware.  I don't recall hearing about what you are discussing in Chrome in cases other than adware.

 

If you don't want to investigate that problem, then it would be a good good idea to start using Firefox.  If you can use Internet Explorer and if it works properly on the sites you want to use, you may want to just use it for now, but over time, Internet Explorer will work with increasingly fewer sites.

 

Gene

----- Original message -----

From: MAX

Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2018 7:56 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA going silent.

 

It happened just now.  When I pressed nvda key + N the menu came up.  I arrowed around the menu and speech came back on.  So there is another way to restore it.  The two programs I had running were outlook 2013 and internet explorer.  Chrome has become unusable because of the popups Which are greater in number every time I open it.

 

 

73 (Regards).

 

Max K 4 O D S.

 

I've Never Lost the Wonder.

 

Antique Electronics Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2018 10:10 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA going silent.

 

We don't know if there is a problem with speech or if the program stops running.  You can't assume that just because speech stops, that the problem is with speech.  When this happens, run Narrator or another screen-reader.  Then try opening the NVDA menu.  Does the menu open?  If so, the problem has something to do with speech while NVDA is running.  It may be a synthesizer problem or it may be an NVDA problem.  If the menu doesn't open, then NVDA is no longer running which is an entirely different problem. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: MAX

Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2018 10:00 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA going silent.

 

I don't understand what you mean by sleep mode.  I turned off character speak using nvda key 2 but it didn't keep it from going into its silent mode.  It's in it right now.  I hope this message will make sense as I am not getting any beeping feedback.  Or reading of lines as I up and down arrow.


73 (Regards).

Max K 4 O D S.

I've Never Lost the Wonder.

Antique Electronics Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss
Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2018 8:32 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA going silent.

Actually if you toggle it to sleep mode and turn off typing letters its actually able to work for you if you run long passages as long as you don't hit control



On 12/26/2018 2:47 PM, MAX wrote:
> I got a wry smile out of the recent thread from people who wanted to
> keep NVDA from speaking.  It does that all the time to me although I
> don't want it too. I have found that if I am running two or more
> programs in windows
> 10 that at some random time after starting the second program that
> NVDA will go silent.  No amount of tabbing or arrowing will cure its case of
> laryngitis.   So far the only way I can restore its voice is to press
> control alt N to restart it.  Is there a quicker way to start it
> talking again?
>
>
> 73 (Regards).
>
> Max.  K 4 O DS.
>
> I've Never Lost the Wonder.
>
> Email: max@...
>
> Vacuum Tube  Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/
> Transistor site: http://www.angelfire.com/planet/funwithtransistors/
> Woodworking site:
> http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/Woodworking/wwindex.h
> tml Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com
>
> To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to.
> Funwithtransistors+subscribe@groups.io
>
> To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to,
> funwithtubes+subscribe@groups.io
>
> To subscribe to the fun with wood group send a blank email to
> funwithwood+subscribe@groups.io
>
>
>
>
>
>



Re: NVDA and Battleship and Memory games

 

I downloaded it a time ago because of a channel that I watch. The guy makes games tutorials and one of those games was this.
Em 29/12/2018 00:03, molly the blind tech lover escreveu:

Hey guys.

There used to be this game for Windows called The Blind Swordsman. It was an audio game. I don�t know if it�s still around, though. I believe it was free or something.

�

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of marcio via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2018 8:59 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and Battleship and Memory games

�

I don't know about it but got interested too. Waiting on this.

�


Cheers,
Marcio


Where to find me:
My Yahoo! email
Add me on Skype
Follow me on Twitter
Follow or add me on Facebook
Ask me something on CuriousCat


Phone(s):
(+55)21-9-81615268 (Tim-RJ)


My WhatsApp


Em 28/12/2018 23:21, Pascal Lambert escreveu:

Hi All,

First best wishes for a happy, serene, and successful new year 2019 to all.

Anyone would know where to get the classic games Battleship and Memory, I believe, created by Robert Bates for Win 10?

Many thanks

Blessings

Pascal

�



Re: NVDA and Battleship and Memory games

 

I downloaded it, as I said on my last message, but never found out how to play properly. I even can't pass the first level LOL
Em 29/12/2018 00:25, Dr. arvind singh brar escreveu:

get the blind swordsman from the below link;

http://evildogserver.com/theblindswordsman/theblindswordsmanPC.zip



This message is transmitted on 100% recycled electrons.


Homepage; 

On 29 Dec 2018, at 9.03 AM, molly the blind tech lover <brainardmolly@...> wrote:

Boxbe This message is eligible for Automatic Cleanup! (brainardmolly@...) Add cleanup rule | More info

Hey guys.

There used to be this game for Windows called The Blind Swordsman. It was an audio game. I don’t know if it’s still around, though. I believe it was free or something.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of marcio via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2018 8:59 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and Battleship and Memory games

 

I don't know about it but got interested too. Waiting on this.

 


Cheers,
Marcio


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Em 28/12/2018 23:21, Pascal Lambert escreveu:

Hi All,

First best wishes for a happy, serene, and successful new year 2019 to all.

Anyone would know where to get the classic games Battleship and Memory, I believe, created by Robert Bates for Win 10?

Many thanks

Blessings

Pascal

 



Re: Sluggish user experience on Facebook

David Goldfield
 

I have a few comments I'd like to add to this thread.

First, I know that one of the reasons why the latency issues don't always plague me as much is that I usually disable character and word echo while typing. Silent keyboard entry means that I don't encounter latency issues, at least for that particular task.

I also suspect few people are sounding the alarm about this because, if I had to guess, few people may actually be running into serious latency issues. At work I have access to two separate laptops. Both of them have 16 GB of RAM and an I7 processor and I must say, in fairness to NVDA, that the latency issues I run into at home are almost nonexistent on those particular laptops. When compared to JAWS, I still notice a very slight difference but they are not significant enough to get in the way of typing, editing and reading text. This is true even in Word 2013 and Word 2016, where performance is certainly acceptable.

Where I notice the issues we're talking about are on my home Optiplex desktop. It's much slower compared to the laptops I use at work, with 8 GB of RAM and a dual core Athlon processor, 2.8 Ghz. I'll admit that when this PC was first made I believe it may have first come preinstalled with Windows Vista. When I bought it as a refurbished unit it had Windows 7. I added more RAM, an SSD and upgraded to Windows 10. Some might argue that maybe I should consider purchasing a new computer and, eventually, I'm sure that I will. However, when I use JAWS 2019 I notice that the latency I experience with NVDA is practically nonexistent. In no way do I mean to start an NVDA vs. JAWS debate on this list. That's not the purpose of my response. However, one of the things that I think should be a high priority with a screen reader is responsiveness and eliminating latency wherever possible. For most people on most machines NVDA is pretty good in this regard which, again, is probably why so few people are reporting issues. Being a small organization NV Access may have to choose to not prioritize on an issue which may only be affecting a small percentage of their users and this makes sense to me. However, I would respectfully counter that by saying that NV Access's goal is to put a high-quality screen reader into the hands of any blind person who needs one, regardless of their location and of the language that they speak. While many of us either have access to or can afford a new computer the fact is that many cannot and I am sure there are many consumers around the world who may need to use slightly older technology with their screen reader. I realize that we have to strike a reasonable balance here, which is why NVDA, as an example, no longer supports Windows XP. This makes sense to me. However, like Tony I wish that some refactoring could be done with the goal of improving the responsiveness of the speech, with the goal of making the experience more like JAWS, if not better.

Again, this is not meant to start a screen reader debate nor is it meant to trash NVDA in favor of JAWS. I would just like to see these latency issues addressed. However, to be fair a company isn't going to make such a massive development effort a priority if the perception is that this is not a problem for most or even nearly all of its users and I can also respect that.

David Goldfield, Assistive Technology Specialist WWW.David-Goldfield.Com

On 12/28/2018 12:32 PM, Tony Malykh wrote:
Hi Felix,
I'm on your side - I think sluggishness in NVDA is a problem, in fact
a big one, and I wish NVDA developers could do something about that.
Facebook is not the only web site that has these issues, I experience
the same problems on gmail and private web sites of company I work
for. I have to switch to JAWS to browse these sites every time just
because all these symptoms with NVDA are unbearable and makes these
web sites completely unusable.

I think another problem with these issues is that the majority of NVDA
users don't seem to be bothered by this issue, judging from reaction
on this list. I think that:

1. People's typing speed differs a lot. I tend to type very fast,
which probably exacerbates this issue for me. People who type slower
might not be that annoyed by this issue, as for example the focus is
sucked into edit boxes only when you're going through them quickly.
Felix, are you a quick typer as well?
2. Maybe people tend to stay away from these web sites that they
cannot figure out how to use. Since Facebook is glitching with NVDA,
blind people will have hard time to learn it and will use for example
twitter instead. It becomes a chicken and egg problem. NVDA devs won't
fix an issue that doesn't affect many users. And it won't affect many
users because the issue is there to begin with.
3. In my experience the severity of this problem depends on the
browser. Glitching in Google Chrome seems to be several times worse
that in Firefox.

Anyway, these are just some thoughts. I wish I could help convince
NVDA devs to have a closer look into this, but looking at github
issues, this problem has been known since at least 2012 so I think
it's unlikely it's going to be fixed any time soon. Unless we can find
enough people bothered by this and maybe like file a petition. If I
had more time, I might have tried to fix it myself, but unfortunatley
I don't have much spare time. So in the meantime - I'll have to switch
back and forth to Jaws.

Best
Tony



On 12/28/18, Felix G. <constantlyvariable@...> wrote:
Hello Enes and list,
sorry for my potentially confusing remark. I was not contrasting our
user experience with that of sighted users. Rather, I was implying
that some peculiarity of Facebook or the affected browsers might give
screen readers in general a hard time, and not just NVDA specifically.
So I did some testing, that is, I performed some comparative screen
reader theology, with the following results:
The late Window-Eyes, digital peace be upon it, occupies the slow end
of the speed scale combined with the high end of the accuracy scale.
You tend to get to wait quite some time for an answer, but when that
answer finally arrives, it is accurate to the degree of fully
supporting the weight of subsequent interactions.
JAWS seems to take quite the opposite approach, erring, when it does,
in favor of speed. There is the occasional unsolicited switch to focus
mode, as well as the occasional double-speaking of text, but the
snappy experience minimizes these frustrations.
NVDA currently takes what I call, from my perspective, the unfortunate
middle ground of this tradeoff. Applying this observation to Facebook,
it means that the experience is slow enough to feel sluggish, and just
unpredictable enough to feel nondeterministic as well. One can clearly
spot all the good intentions with which this particular road to hell
has been paved, so I wouldn't consider this proof that anything is
being consciously ignored, but the result, at least for me, combines
the worst of both worlds enough to make me switch screen readers when
using Facebook.
If, as Enes suggests, this observation applies to a broader category
of websites of which Facebook is just one prominent example, the
approach taken by NVDA in interacting with browsers deserves
reconsideration. Given the dynamic nature of todays's web, I strongly
suggest favoring speed over complete consistency. Selectively
decoupling focus from virtual cursor position, and re-coupling them on
demand, may be an effective first step in the right direction, as some
isolated speed cost when activating an element is allowable while a
permanent speed cost while navigating is clearly not.
All the best,
Felix

Am Do., 27. Dez. 2018 um 22:28 Uhr schrieb enes sarıbaş
<enes.saribas@...>:
hi,

Yes, as sighted obviously do not have this problem, or we would've heard
more about by now.

On 12/27/2018 7:49 PM, Felix G. wrote:
Hi,
so you're certain it's an NVDA issue rather than a Facebook or browser
one?
Best,
Felix

Am Do., 27. Dez. 2018 um 20:43 Uhr schrieb enes sarıbaş
<enes.saribas@...>:
hi,

This is an NVDA issue which has existed for about a few centuries,
which
is also ignored by the devs. This happens not only in facebook, but in
many websites with dynamically changing content, or with dialogues,
for
instance, the Oxford scholarship online database my university
subscribes to. This has to do with the way NVDA interacts with the
browser, however a better way was not implemented.

On 12/27/2018 7:29 PM, Felix G. wrote:
Hi everyone,
is anyone else noticing that when arrowing or otherwise navigating
Facebook's standard view, the interface tends to slow down to a
crawl?
In addition, I am experiencing the virtual cursor randomly jumping
back a few lines, resulting in lines being read twice, and random
switches to focus mode.
Are there any known remedies, except of course switching to mobile
view, which is not even recommended to blind users by Facebook
itself?
All the best,
Felix













Re: StationPlaylist and Windows 10 App Essentials 19.01 are on their way #addonrelease

 

Hi,

One major clarification: my statement regarding “not providing a meaningful fix” should not be taken as an indication that I’m giving up. In the past, I’ve been known for seemingly forgetting an issue, only to come back to it months later.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joseph Lee via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2018 6:24 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] StationPlaylist and Windows 10 App Essentials 19.01 are on their way #AddonRelease

 

Hi,

When I go to Historical weather tab and select temperature, then press Tab to move around, each month button is labeled with high, low and other information. When one presses Enter to activate the button, the stats do change on screen but isn’t announced by Narrator nor NVDA. When I probe UIA event activities, it does allow NVDA to see that name change took place, but it is done on a per item basis – for example, for January, one of the name change text is just the year (2017) instead of a more meaningful summary. Because it is known that property change events may happen out of order (observed multiple times with live region change events in some universal apps), I’m a bit hesitant as to how to proceed with providing a meaningful fix for you.

Sorry about that.

Cheers,

Joseph

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ron Canazzi
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2018 5:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] StationPlaylist and Windows 10 App Essentials 19.01 are on their way #AddonRelease

 

Hi Joseph,

 

You keep updating the Windows Ten App essentials almost monthly for several months now.  I am wondering if the issue with weather history will be improved.  Sighted people say that when they click on an item such as temperature and then on a month, another box opens and they see the highs and lows for every day within that month and other information.  The same goes for rainfall and snowfall.  Yet with all these incessant updates, this issue has not changed.  All we get is the monthly average with a button that doesn't activate anything or open any new boxes or screens.

 

Thanks for any help.

 

On 12/28/2018 2:38 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi everyone,

 

First, for those celebrating it, hope your New Year’s Day preparation is going well. May 2019 be a great year for the NVDA community.

 

I’m delighted to announce the release of StationPlaylist Studio and Windows 10 App Essentials 19.01. StationPlaylist Studio add-on is used to help broadcasters using SPL suite of application with producing their shows, and Windows 10 App Essentials is a must have add-on for improved usability of Windows 10.

 

The most important thing you’ll notice with these releases is saying goodbye to standalone add-on update checks. Until Add-on Updater appeared, these two were part of a handful of add-ons that can check for updated versions of themselves. Now that Add-on Updater is stable and recommended by add-on authors, I hereby announce that, starting from this release, the ability to check for updated versions of these add-ons will be assumed by Add-on Updater, not by these add-ons. As a consequence of this, when you restart NVDA after installing these releases for the first time, you’ll get a message informing you of this change (for those using StationPlaylist add-on, the first time you start Studio after installing add-on 19.01).

 

Additional notes:

 

StationPlaylist Studio:

  • Version 19.01 isn’t the only release today – if you’re using 18.09.5-LTS (longterm channel) release, you’ll be asked to update to 18.09.6-LTS. Just like 19.01, 18.09.6-LTS will also present add-on update check warning.
  • The source code that powers standalone add-on update checks will be removed in 19.02; it’ll be kept in 18.09.x series (although to be disabled in the next LTS release) to serve as a reference for anyone wishing to learn how Add-on Updater’s update check facility came to be.
  • Version 19.01 (for LTS people, 18.09.6-LTS) is first of two mandatory updates (the next one is 19.02, and for LTS, 18.09.7 in March 2019).
  • Today’s releases require NVDA 2018.4 or later. In terms of Studio, 19.01 requires 5.11, whereas 18.09.6 will run happily on 5.10.
  • Sometime in 2019, a 19.x version will ask you to update to studio 5.20 or later. I’ll give you sixty days’ notice before making the switch.
  • For those on longterm (LTS) channel, 18.09.6 is one of the last mainstream maintenance versions where features from 19.x can be backported. After NVDA 2019.1 is released (later in 2019), 18.09.x will enter bug fix only mode.

 

Windows 10 App Essentials:

  • Version 19.01.x is the last release series to run on Windows 10 Version 1709 (Fall Creators Update/build 16299). Version 19.02 will require Version 1803 (April 2018 Update/build 17134) or later.
  • Although this release supports expanded input panel in latest Windows Insider Preview build, things can change without notice.

 

Thank you.

Cheers,

Joseph

-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


Re: NVDA and Battleship and Memory games

 

get the blind swordsman from the below link;

http://evildogserver.com/theblindswordsman/theblindswordsmanPC.zip



This message is transmitted on 100% recycled electrons.


Homepage; 

On 29 Dec 2018, at 9.03 AM, molly the blind tech lover <brainardmolly@...> wrote:

Boxbe This message is eligible for Automatic Cleanup! (brainardmolly@...) Add cleanup rule | More info

Hey guys.

There used to be this game for Windows called The Blind Swordsman. It was an audio game. I don’t know if it’s still around, though. I believe it was free or something.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of marcio via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2018 8:59 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and Battleship and Memory games

 

I don't know about it but got interested too. Waiting on this.

Em 28/12/2018 23:21, Pascal Lambert escreveu:

Hi All,

First best wishes for a happy, serene, and successful new year 2019 to all.

Anyone would know where to get the classic games Battleship and Memory, I believe, created by Robert Bates for Win 10?

Many thanks

Blessings

Pascal

 


Re: StationPlaylist and Windows 10 App Essentials 19.01 are on their way #addonrelease

 

Hi,

When I go to Historical weather tab and select temperature, then press Tab to move around, each month button is labeled with high, low and other information. When one presses Enter to activate the button, the stats do change on screen but isn’t announced by Narrator nor NVDA. When I probe UIA event activities, it does allow NVDA to see that name change took place, but it is done on a per item basis – for example, for January, one of the name change text is just the year (2017) instead of a more meaningful summary. Because it is known that property change events may happen out of order (observed multiple times with live region change events in some universal apps), I’m a bit hesitant as to how to proceed with providing a meaningful fix for you.

Sorry about that.

Cheers,

Joseph

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ron Canazzi
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2018 5:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] StationPlaylist and Windows 10 App Essentials 19.01 are on their way #AddonRelease

 

Hi Joseph,

 

You keep updating the Windows Ten App essentials almost monthly for several months now.  I am wondering if the issue with weather history will be improved.  Sighted people say that when they click on an item such as temperature and then on a month, another box opens and they see the highs and lows for every day within that month and other information.  The same goes for rainfall and snowfall.  Yet with all these incessant updates, this issue has not changed.  All we get is the monthly average with a button that doesn't activate anything or open any new boxes or screens.

 

Thanks for any help.

 

On 12/28/2018 2:38 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi everyone,

 

First, for those celebrating it, hope your New Year’s Day preparation is going well. May 2019 be a great year for the NVDA community.

 

I’m delighted to announce the release of StationPlaylist Studio and Windows 10 App Essentials 19.01. StationPlaylist Studio add-on is used to help broadcasters using SPL suite of application with producing their shows, and Windows 10 App Essentials is a must have add-on for improved usability of Windows 10.

 

The most important thing you’ll notice with these releases is saying goodbye to standalone add-on update checks. Until Add-on Updater appeared, these two were part of a handful of add-ons that can check for updated versions of themselves. Now that Add-on Updater is stable and recommended by add-on authors, I hereby announce that, starting from this release, the ability to check for updated versions of these add-ons will be assumed by Add-on Updater, not by these add-ons. As a consequence of this, when you restart NVDA after installing these releases for the first time, you’ll get a message informing you of this change (for those using StationPlaylist add-on, the first time you start Studio after installing add-on 19.01).

 

Additional notes:

 

StationPlaylist Studio:

  • Version 19.01 isn’t the only release today – if you’re using 18.09.5-LTS (longterm channel) release, you’ll be asked to update to 18.09.6-LTS. Just like 19.01, 18.09.6-LTS will also present add-on update check warning.
  • The source code that powers standalone add-on update checks will be removed in 19.02; it’ll be kept in 18.09.x series (although to be disabled in the next LTS release) to serve as a reference for anyone wishing to learn how Add-on Updater’s update check facility came to be.
  • Version 19.01 (for LTS people, 18.09.6-LTS) is first of two mandatory updates (the next one is 19.02, and for LTS, 18.09.7 in March 2019).
  • Today’s releases require NVDA 2018.4 or later. In terms of Studio, 19.01 requires 5.11, whereas 18.09.6 will run happily on 5.10.
  • Sometime in 2019, a 19.x version will ask you to update to studio 5.20 or later. I’ll give you sixty days’ notice before making the switch.
  • For those on longterm (LTS) channel, 18.09.6 is one of the last mainstream maintenance versions where features from 19.x can be backported. After NVDA 2019.1 is released (later in 2019), 18.09.x will enter bug fix only mode.

 

Windows 10 App Essentials:

  • Version 19.01.x is the last release series to run on Windows 10 Version 1709 (Fall Creators Update/build 16299). Version 19.02 will require Version 1803 (April 2018 Update/build 17134) or later.
  • Although this release supports expanded input panel in latest Windows Insider Preview build, things can change without notice.

 

Thank you.

Cheers,

Joseph

-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


Re: NVDA and Battleship and Memory games

molly the blind tech lover
 

Hey guys.

There used to be this game for Windows called The Blind Swordsman. It was an audio game. I don’t know if it’s still around, though. I believe it was free or something.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of marcio via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2018 8:59 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and Battleship and Memory games

 

I don't know about it but got interested too. Waiting on this.

Em 28/12/2018 23:21, Pascal Lambert escreveu:

Hi All,

First best wishes for a happy, serene, and successful new year 2019 to all.

Anyone would know where to get the classic games Battleship and Memory, I believe, created by Robert Bates for Win 10?

Many thanks

Blessings

Pascal

 


Re: I think I know what caused my Nvda add-ons not to install correctly

molly the blind tech lover
 

Hi.

I think the Windows insider was not for me. It was great at first but then things went terribly wrong. It feels so good to have a stable machine  😊

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Governor staten
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2018 8:55 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I think I know what caused my Nvda add-ons not to install correctly

 

Let others swim in the deep water. If you get a lab machine, have at Windows Insider. 😊

 

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of molly the blind tech lover
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2018 8:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] I think I know what caused my Nvda add-ons not to install correctly

 

Hey guys, Molly here again.

As I may have mentioned last week or so, I had a problem where when installing add-ons, they would not install correctly. This kept occurring. Well, I did a new install of Windows, going back to what I guess is the current stable version of Windows, version 17763. Well, not only did it fix all the problems I’d been experiencing, but I now have no issues at all installing add-ons. The issue must have been the insider program, which I am officially opted out of.  The machine works so much better now. I am happy.  😊


Re: NVDA and Battleship and Memory games

 

I don't know about it but got interested too. Waiting on this.
Em 28/12/2018 23:21, Pascal Lambert escreveu:

Hi All,

First best wishes for a happy, serene, and successful new year 2019 to all.

Anyone would know where to get the classic games Battleship and Memory, I believe, created by Robert Bates for Win 10?

Many thanks

Blessings

Pascal



Re: I think I know what caused my Nvda add-ons not to install correctly

 

Let others swim in the deep water. If you get a lab machine, have at Windows Insider. 😊

 

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of molly the blind tech lover
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2018 8:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] I think I know what caused my Nvda add-ons not to install correctly

 

Hey guys, Molly here again.

As I may have mentioned last week or so, I had a problem where when installing add-ons, they would not install correctly. This kept occurring. Well, I did a new install of Windows, going back to what I guess is the current stable version of Windows, version 17763. Well, not only did it fix all the problems I’d been experiencing, but I now have no issues at all installing add-ons. The issue must have been the insider program, which I am officially opted out of.  The machine works so much better now. I am happy.  😊


Re: Sluggish user experience on Facebook

Nimer Jaber
 

I don't have a lot to contribute to this discussion except to say that I do observe lag in NEVADA, especially as compared to JAWS, but more extreme as it relates to Narrator. Narrator in Edge on the web is veery, very responsive, particularly in web apps. NVDA, not so much. When talking about lag, it is a bit subjective because you may not observe lag if you are used to using something and it has worked the same way for you. But when you compare to other options, I think the lag is noticeable. It is for me at any rate. And as for Facebook... I think many blind individuals find the regular site cluttered because they are trying to navigate it like a regular web page, or maybe they notice the lag that is present when navigating it. Facebook is intended to be used like other web apps, with shortcuts and hotkeys that are native to Facebook. It is not intended to be used by navigating it like a regular web page. It should be able to be used that way, and NVDA should not hang and lag on "cluttered" sites, but the best experience with the regular Facebook, as is with Twitter and Gmail and others, is to use the hotkeys supplied by the site as intended.

Thanks.

On Fri, Dec 28, 2018 at 6:09 PM Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
These kinds of problems were discussed perhaps two weeks ago.  I'm surprised no one has commented on that discussion.  I don't have the technical knowledgte to discuss it knowledgeablely but maybe my comments will elicit a response from those who know more. 
 
The discussion was about NVDA changing focus on web sites where events cause something to happen as you move around the site.  I think its JAVA scripts that cause events to happen of the kind discussed.  There is some problem with the way NVDA moves or responds or doesn't respond quickly enough to such events and Facebook was discussed as one of the sites. 
 
I don't know what is or isn't being considered as far as remedying the problem.  Maybe we'll find out more now.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2018 4:29 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Sluggish user experience on Facebook

Annette,
Why do you think it's Amazon or Firefox to blame for sluggishness and
not NVDA? Why do you think it's the website that decides to play nice
occasionally, and not NVDA?

--Tony


On 12/28/18, Annette Moore <angelgirl52376@...> wrote:
> I use the Facebook mobile site with Firefox, and I have no problems.
> amazon can be a bit sluggish at times, but I think that's just amazon or
> firefox, or maybe just a combination of the two. I don't think it has
> anything to do with NVDA itself because when the site decides to play
> nice, NVDA works beautifully with it. there's still the issue with the
> "buy now with one click button" on Kindle material, but I know how to
> get around that. Getting back to Facebook, though, the main site is way
> too cluttered no matter what screen reader or browser you use. I don't
> like it at all, so I don't use it.
>
> Annette
>
> On 12/28/2018 11:43 AM, Monte Single wrote:
>> I do not experience sluggishness with nvda; I type at and average or
>> faster speed.  I do not use facebook so I cannot comment on that.  I use
>> all kinds of websites;  n g os, corporate, government and private.
>> N v d a is not perfect, but it  does 99 percent  of what I need.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tony
>> Malykh
>> Sent: December-28-18 11:32 AM
>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Sluggish user experience on Facebook
>>
>> Hi Felix,
>> I'm on your side - I think sluggishness in NVDA is a problem, in fact a
>> big one, and I wish NVDA developers could do something about that.
>> Facebook is not the only web site that has these issues, I experience the
>> same problems on gmail and private web sites of company I work for. I have
>> to switch to JAWS to browse these sites every time just because all these
>> symptoms with NVDA are unbearable and makes these web sites completely
>> unusable.
>>
>> I think another problem with these issues is that the majority of NVDA
>> users don't seem to be bothered by this issue, judging from reaction on
>> this list. I think that:
>>
>> 1. People's typing speed differs a lot. I tend to type very fast, which
>> probably exacerbates this issue for me. People who type slower might not
>> be that annoyed by this issue, as for example the focus is sucked into
>> edit boxes only when you're going through them quickly.
>> Felix, are you a quick typer as well?
>> 2. Maybe people tend to stay away from these web sites that they cannot
>> figure out how to use. Since Facebook is glitching with NVDA, blind people
>> will have hard time to learn it and will use for example twitter instead.
>> It becomes a chicken and egg problem. NVDA devs won't fix an issue that
>> doesn't affect many users. And it won't affect many users because the
>> issue is there to begin with.
>> 3. In my experience the severity of this problem depends on the browser.
>> Glitching in Google Chrome seems to be several times worse that in
>> Firefox.
>>
>> Anyway, these are just some thoughts. I wish I could help convince NVDA
>> devs to have a closer look into this, but looking at github issues, this
>> problem has been known since at least 2012 so I think it's unlikely it's
>> going to be fixed any time soon. Unless we can find enough people bothered
>> by this and maybe like file a petition. If I had more time, I might have
>> tried to fix it myself, but unfortunatley I don't have much spare time. So
>> in the meantime - I'll have to switch back and forth to Jaws.
>>
>> Best
>> Tony
>>
>>
>>
>> On 12/28/18, Felix G. <constantlyvariable@...> wrote:
>>> Hello Enes and list,
>>> sorry for my potentially confusing remark. I was not contrasting our
>>> user experience with that of sighted users. Rather, I was implying
>>> that some peculiarity of Facebook or the affected browsers might give
>>> screen readers in general a hard time, and not just NVDA specifically.
>>> So I did some testing, that is, I performed some comparative screen
>>> reader theology, with the following results:
>>> The late Window-Eyes, digital peace be upon it, occupies the slow end
>>> of the speed scale combined with the high end of the accuracy scale.
>>> You tend to get to wait quite some time for an answer, but when that
>>> answer finally arrives, it is accurate to the degree of fully
>>> supporting the weight of subsequent interactions.
>>> JAWS seems to take quite the opposite approach, erring, when it does,
>>> in favor of speed. There is the occasional unsolicited switch to focus
>>> mode, as well as the occasional double-speaking of text, but the
>>> snappy experience minimizes these frustrations.
>>> NVDA currently takes what I call, from my perspective, the unfortunate
>>> middle ground of this tradeoff. Applying this observation to Facebook,
>>> it means that the experience is slow enough to feel sluggish, and just
>>> unpredictable enough to feel nondeterministic as well. One can clearly
>>> spot all the good intentions with which this particular road to hell
>>> has been paved, so I wouldn't consider this proof that anything is
>>> being consciously ignored, but the result, at least for me, combines
>>> the worst of both worlds enough to make me switch screen readers when
>>> using Facebook.
>>> If, as Enes suggests, this observation applies to a broader category
>>> of websites of which Facebook is just one prominent example, the
>>> approach taken by NVDA in interacting with browsers deserves
>>> reconsideration. Given the dynamic nature of todays's web, I strongly
>>> suggest favoring speed over complete consistency. Selectively
>>> decoupling focus from virtual cursor position, and re-coupling them on
>>> demand, may be an effective first step in the right direction, as some
>>> isolated speed cost when activating an element is allowable while a
>>> permanent speed cost while navigating is clearly not.
>>> All the best,
>>> Felix
>>>
>>> Am Do., 27. Dez. 2018 um 22:28 Uhr schrieb enes sarıbaş
>>> <enes.saribas@...>:
>>>> hi,
>>>>
>>>> Yes, as sighted obviously do not have this problem, or we would've
>>>> heard more about by now.
>>>>
>>>> On 12/27/2018 7:49 PM, Felix G. wrote:
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> so you're certain it's an NVDA issue rather than a Facebook or
>>>>> browser one?
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> Felix
>>>>>
>>>>> Am Do., 27. Dez. 2018 um 20:43 Uhr schrieb enes sarıbaş
>>>>> <enes.saribas@...>:
>>>>>> hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is an NVDA issue which has existed for about a few centuries,
>>>>>> which is also ignored by the devs. This happens not only in
>>>>>> facebook, but in many websites with dynamically changing content,
>>>>>> or with dialogues, for instance, the Oxford scholarship online
>>>>>> database my university subscribes to. This has to do with the way
>>>>>> NVDA interacts with the browser, however a better way was not
>>>>>> implemented.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 12/27/2018 7:29 PM, Felix G. wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>>>> is anyone else noticing that when arrowing or otherwise
>>>>>>> navigating Facebook's standard view, the interface tends to slow
>>>>>>> down to a crawl?
>>>>>>> In addition, I am experiencing the virtual cursor randomly
>>>>>>> jumping back a few lines, resulting in lines being read twice,
>>>>>>> and random switches to focus mode.
>>>>>>> Are there any known remedies, except of course switching to
>>>>>>> mobile view, which is not even recommended to blind users by
>>>>>>> Facebook itself?
>>>>>>> All the best,
>>>>>>> Felix
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>




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I think I know what caused my Nvda add-ons not to install correctly

molly the blind tech lover
 

Hey guys, Molly here again.

As I may have mentioned last week or so, I had a problem where when installing add-ons, they would not install correctly. This kept occurring. Well, I did a new install of Windows, going back to what I guess is the current stable version of Windows, version 17763. Well, not only did it fix all the problems I’d been experiencing, but I now have no issues at all installing add-ons. The issue must have been the insider program, which I am officially opted out of.  The machine works so much better now. I am happy.  😊


Re: StationPlaylist and Windows 10 App Essentials 19.01 are on their way #addonrelease

Ron Canazzi
 

Hi Joseph,


You keep updating the Windows Ten App essentials almost monthly for several months now.  I am wondering if the issue with weather history will be improved.  Sighted people say that when they click on an item such as temperature and then on a month, another box opens and they see the highs and lows for every day within that month and other information.  The same goes for rainfall and snowfall.  Yet with all these incessant updates, this issue has not changed.  All we get is the monthly average with a button that doesn't activate anything or open any new boxes or screens.


Thanks for any help.


On 12/28/2018 2:38 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi everyone,

 

First, for those celebrating it, hope your New Year’s Day preparation is going well. May 2019 be a great year for the NVDA community.

 

I’m delighted to announce the release of StationPlaylist Studio and Windows 10 App Essentials 19.01. StationPlaylist Studio add-on is used to help broadcasters using SPL suite of application with producing their shows, and Windows 10 App Essentials is a must have add-on for improved usability of Windows 10.

 

The most important thing you’ll notice with these releases is saying goodbye to standalone add-on update checks. Until Add-on Updater appeared, these two were part of a handful of add-ons that can check for updated versions of themselves. Now that Add-on Updater is stable and recommended by add-on authors, I hereby announce that, starting from this release, the ability to check for updated versions of these add-ons will be assumed by Add-on Updater, not by these add-ons. As a consequence of this, when you restart NVDA after installing these releases for the first time, you’ll get a message informing you of this change (for those using StationPlaylist add-on, the first time you start Studio after installing add-on 19.01).

 

Additional notes:

 

StationPlaylist Studio:

  • Version 19.01 isn’t the only release today – if you’re using 18.09.5-LTS (longterm channel) release, you’ll be asked to update to 18.09.6-LTS. Just like 19.01, 18.09.6-LTS will also present add-on update check warning.
  • The source code that powers standalone add-on update checks will be removed in 19.02; it’ll be kept in 18.09.x series (although to be disabled in the next LTS release) to serve as a reference for anyone wishing to learn how Add-on Updater’s update check facility came to be.
  • Version 19.01 (for LTS people, 18.09.6-LTS) is first of two mandatory updates (the next one is 19.02, and for LTS, 18.09.7 in March 2019).
  • Today’s releases require NVDA 2018.4 or later. In terms of Studio, 19.01 requires 5.11, whereas 18.09.6 will run happily on 5.10.
  • Sometime in 2019, a 19.x version will ask you to update to studio 5.20 or later. I’ll give you sixty days’ notice before making the switch.
  • For those on longterm (LTS) channel, 18.09.6 is one of the last mainstream maintenance versions where features from 19.x can be backported. After NVDA 2019.1 is released (later in 2019), 18.09.x will enter bug fix only mode.

 

Windows 10 App Essentials:

  • Version 19.01.x is the last release series to run on Windows 10 Version 1709 (Fall Creators Update/build 16299). Version 19.02 will require Version 1803 (April 2018 Update/build 17134) or later.
  • Although this release supports expanded input panel in latest Windows Insider Preview build, things can change without notice.

 

Thank you.

Cheers,

Joseph

-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"