Date   

Re: nvda doesn't announce the start menu after pressing the windows key

Sarah k Alawami
 

In my case I hearthe edit field as I have an add on that plays sounds, but yeah I remember it did say start menu. For me a restart of nvda works fine.

Take care

On 3 Jan 2019, at 15:52, Gene wrote:

You should easily be able to confirm where you are.  I don't use Windows 10 but one or both of these commands should tell you directly or indirectly where you are:
Try NVDA key t for the title bar.  Also try NVDA key tab, which reads the current control you are on. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2019 5:39 PM
Subject: [nvda] nvda doesn't announce the start menu after pressing the windows key

Hey guys, Molly here again.

For some reason 99 percent of the time Nvda doesn’t announce that I’m on the start menu when I press the windows logo key. I press it and Nvda says nothing at all. It’s happening on both machines. It’s frustrating because I’m needing to access different folders and I want to search for them using the start menu.

Do you have any ideas on what could be causing this?

Running windows 10 home, build 17763 on both machines.

Thanks.


Re: nvda doesn't announce the start menu after pressing the windows key

Sarah k Alawami
 

I believe I have the same issue. In fact I think I saw it yesterday. I have the essentials add o installed if that makes a difference, which it probably does not. I hope it is a fluke for both of us.

Running windows 10 1809. I have to look up the nvda version but it is the latest beta build, that much I know.

On 3 Jan 2019, at 15:39, molly the blind tech lover wrote:

Hey guys, Molly here again.

For some reason 99 percent of the time Nvda doesn’t announce that I’m on the start menu when I press the windows logo key. I press it and Nvda says nothing at all. It’s happening on both machines. It’s frustrating because I’m needing to access different folders and I want to search for them using the start menu.

Do you have any ideas on what could be causing this?

Running windows 10 home, build 17763 on both machines.

Thanks.


Re: nvda doesn't announce the start menu after pressing the windows key

Gene
 

You should easily be able to confirm where you are.  I don't use Windows 10 but one or both of these commands should tell you directly or indirectly where you are:
Try NVDA key t for the title bar.  Also try NVDA key tab, which reads the current control you are on. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2019 5:39 PM
Subject: [nvda] nvda doesn't announce the start menu after pressing the windows key

Hey guys, Molly here again.

For some reason 99 percent of the time Nvda doesn’t announce that I’m on the start menu when I press the windows logo key. I press it and Nvda says nothing at all. It’s happening on both machines. It’s frustrating because I’m needing to access different folders and I want to search for them using the start menu.

Do you have any ideas on what could be causing this?

Running windows 10 home, build 17763 on both machines.

Thanks.


nvda doesn't announce the start menu after pressing the windows key

molly the blind tech lover
 

Hey guys, Molly here again.

For some reason 99 percent of the time Nvda doesn’t announce that I’m on the start menu when I press the windows logo key. I press it and Nvda says nothing at all. It’s happening on both machines. It’s frustrating because I’m needing to access different folders and I want to search for them using the start menu.

Do you have any ideas on what could be causing this?

Running windows 10 home, build 17763 on both machines.

Thanks.


Re: Add-on Updater: counting down to release of version 19.01.1 #addonrelease

Sarah k Alawami
 

Ah. I restarted my computer, actually it was a cold start hence why I have only ben getting theemessage once. It was pretty neat though, thanks for that and happy new year.

On 3 Jan 2019, at 13:42, Roger Stewart wrote:

Joseph gave a fix for this this morning. You just shut down nvda, wait about a minute or so, then restart it.  Then it is gone. I also rebooted my computer and the message did not appear so the problem is fixed now.

Roger










On 1/3/2019 2:19 PM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

How odd. Can you reinstall the add on? Maybe that will fix it?

On 3 Jan 2019, at 8:10, Roger Stewart wrote:

I'm having the same problem here.  This is the third morning I've seen that message and there is no button that says don't show this dialog again or anything. I just hit the escape key right away and it is gone until the next reboot.

Roger










On 1/2/2019 10:03 PM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

No issue here. I just saw it once, and that's it. Did you restart the computer or nvda to make sure it actually does appear?

Take care

On 2 Jan 2019, at 15:42, Abbie Taylor wrote:

Ever since I updated the add-on, Joseph Lee's Happy New Year message pops up whenever I start NVDA. How do I keep that from happening?
--
Abbie Johnson Taylor, Author
http://www.abbiejohnsontaylor.com
http://abbiescorner.wordpress.com
abbietaylor945@...




Re: Add-on Updater: counting down to release of version 19.01.1 #addonrelease

Roger Stewart
 

I saw a message from Joseph that a new version is out now and it removes the message. I haven't seen the update here yet, but the fix I did earlier has fixed it for now. Will probably get the new version tomorrow morning when I start up again.

Roger







On 1/3/2019 4:14 PM, P. Otter wrote:
hi I've the same problem.
every morning i hear the same story.
is it possible to create an update that stops it.
This is really annoying and that is probably not the intention
cheers Paul Otter
Op 3-1-2019 om 21:19 schreef Sarah k Alawami:

How odd. Can you reinstall the add on? Maybe that will fix it?

On 3 Jan 2019, at 8:10, Roger Stewart wrote:

I'm having the same problem here.  This is the third morning I've seen that message and there is no button that says don't show this dialog again or anything. I just hit the escape key right away and it is gone until the next reboot.

Roger










On 1/2/2019 10:03 PM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

No issue here. I just saw it once, and that's it. Did you restart the computer or nvda to make sure it actually does appear?

Take care

On 2 Jan 2019, at 15:42, Abbie Taylor wrote:

Ever since I updated the add-on, Joseph Lee's Happy New Year message pops up whenever I start NVDA. How do I keep that from happening?
--
Abbie Johnson Taylor, Author
http://www.abbiejohnsontaylor.com
http://abbiescorner.wordpress.com
abbietaylor945@...





Re: Add-on Updater: counting down to release of version 19.01.1 #addonrelease

P. Otter
 

hi I've the same problem.
every morning i hear the same story.
is it possible to create an update that stops it.
This is really annoying and that is probably not the intention
cheers Paul Otter
Op 3-1-2019 om 21:19 schreef Sarah k Alawami:

How odd. Can you reinstall the add on? Maybe that will fix it?

On 3 Jan 2019, at 8:10, Roger Stewart wrote:

I'm having the same problem here.  This is the third morning I've seen that message and there is no button that says don't show this dialog again or anything. I just hit the escape key right away and it is gone until the next reboot.

Roger










On 1/2/2019 10:03 PM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

No issue here. I just saw it once, and that's it. Did you restart the computer or nvda to make sure it actually does appear?

Take care

On 2 Jan 2019, at 15:42, Abbie Taylor wrote:

Ever since I updated the add-on, Joseph Lee's Happy New Year message pops up whenever I start NVDA. How do I keep that from happening?
--
Abbie Johnson Taylor, Author
http://www.abbiejohnsontaylor.com
http://abbiescorner.wordpress.com
abbietaylor945@...




Re: Add-on Updater: counting down to release of version 19.01.1 #addonrelease

Roger Stewart
 

Joseph gave a fix for this this morning. You just shut down nvda, wait about a minute or so, then restart it.  Then it is gone. I also rebooted my computer and the message did not appear so the problem is fixed now.

Roger










On 1/3/2019 2:19 PM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

How odd. Can you reinstall the add on? Maybe that will fix it?

On 3 Jan 2019, at 8:10, Roger Stewart wrote:

I'm having the same problem here.  This is the third morning I've seen that message and there is no button that says don't show this dialog again or anything. I just hit the escape key right away and it is gone until the next reboot.

Roger










On 1/2/2019 10:03 PM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

No issue here. I just saw it once, and that's it. Did you restart the computer or nvda to make sure it actually does appear?

Take care

On 2 Jan 2019, at 15:42, Abbie Taylor wrote:

Ever since I updated the add-on, Joseph Lee's Happy New Year message pops up whenever I start NVDA. How do I keep that from happening?
--
Abbie Johnson Taylor, Author
http://www.abbiejohnsontaylor.com
http://abbiescorner.wordpress.com
abbietaylor945@...




Re: NVDA elequence question

Gene
 

The issue isn't just legal protection, though I consider that a valid consideration.  NVDA relies on a reputation for not engaging in questionable activities in terms of its promotion and this list is a part of that mechanism to develop and keep such a reputation.  NVDA gets grants from various companies, Microsoft, Mozilla, and I don't know who else might provide grants.  It is unwise to have a major organ for discussion and promotion of NVDA that allows questionable content.
 
Obviously, you can't stop all discussion.  Someone is going to make some comment or mention some illegal product.  but to allow such discussion to continue is tantamount to the list owner endorsing the discussion, which is a very bad idea for reasons I've already discussed.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----

Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2019 2:24 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA elequence question

It must then either be a groups.io issue or lack of cooperation by the
admins when explicitly requested. Anyway, there's no need to share the
link directly over here, the fact that such a discussion even exists
probably made a lot of people open up their Googles and that's all they
needed. The addon isn't especially hard to find, so I think discussing
it and not sharing it would be the best option. Those who really want it
will find it eventually, those who prefer to stay on the legal side
won't even look for it. I don't think there are people who are able to
install addons but aren't able to make a simple Google query, so I don't
see the point in sharing the link directly if it might get us into
trouble. Those people should know that such a thing exists and that it
is illegal, as it's not clearly indicated on the addons website. That's
why most people think there's a free legal Eloquence.

BTW if groups.io is really that keen on shutting down list for such a
reason (they probably are too lazy to deal with DMCas) then I'm very
uncertain as to this list's future. If it gets big enough, something
will eventually happen whether we want it or not and they might shut the
list down. It might be illegal content, obscene language or whatever
else we might deem appropriate but they won't. I would recommend looking
for alternatives like Googlegroups. Google is much bigger, probably less
whimsy and their skin might be a bit thicker, though we'd have to see
about that.


W dniu 2019-01-03 o 19:42, Gene pisze:
> I don't know if others on list know more about the law in the United
> States.  I do know that many lists have been shut down in the last year
> or two for illegally sharing material such as books and movies.  The
> owner of this list serve has done so.  I don't know who else may have,
> but such is not allowed on this list serve and probably elsewhere.
> Gene
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* mikolaj holysz <mailto:miki123211@...>
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 03, 2019 11:34 AM
> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> *Subject:* Re: [nvda] NVDA elequence question
>
>
>  > If a list allows such discussions, it is opened to legal liability.  It
>  > is illegal to use such programs.  Promoting their use is illegal and
>  > lists that allow it may be shut down by the owner of whatever list serve
>  > the list is on and, though very unlikely, the list could have legal
>  > action taken against it by the owner of whatever intellectual property
>  > is being used illegally.
> Can I ask for a source of that info, please? This is definitely untrue
> in most countries. An admin is not and will never be responsible for
> what it's users post, if that weren't true, no one would dare to make
> web 2.0 websites (like Facebook, Wordpress etc). The only responsibility
> of the admin is to remove content from their website if they get an
> official letter from a copyright owner stating that this content is
> illegal, with all the necessary statements. I don't know why many admins
> in the blind community think otherwise. Even so, no law can prohibit
> discussing such content if it's not shared. Discussing how much such a
> content is worth is, in most cases, allowed. That's why the /r/piracy
> Reddit flourishes and Reddit itself doesn't do anything about it. They
> don't have to. THey have a strict "no posting of content" policy. They
> only put general links to websites, not even direct links to content,
> and they're perfectly fine, even though most of that subreddit consists
> of threads like "is downloading xxx from torrents safe" or "on what
> website can I get books in language xxx for free". Discussing technical
> processes used to make cracks or avoid drm might be illegal, though. If
> there's someone who can be sued, it's definitely the developer of such
> cracked software, and probably the one who put it there, maybe the one
> who posted the link but that's questionable.
>
> Of course the information presented above should not be considered legal
> advice, and actually doing some reading is recommended. Doing some
> reading is always recommended, blindly repeating what others have said
> never does us much good, and actually that's what many website owners
> do, that's why we have that Eloquence and GDPR dramas in the first
> place. Most of that is wildly unnecessary. I personally think that
> admins (of websites in general) should do as little as the law allows
> them to, respond to whatever they're obliged to respond and not overdo
> it out of fear.
>
>
>




Re: NVDA elequence question

Antony Stone
 

I think the fundamental point here is that the people, the developers and the
company behind NVDA do not want to be associated in any way with discussion of
illegal activity.

Therefore, if you want to discuss it, do it somewhere else.

That's a policy which the operators of this list have decided upon, and anyone
subscribing to list is expected to go along with it.

Most mailing lists (and similar forums, groups, etc, which are basically the
same thing by another name) have rules which subscribers are expected /
required to abide by, and this is one of the rules for this list.

Regards,


Antony.

On Thursday 03 January 2019 at 21:24:00, mikolaj holysz wrote:

It must then either be a groups.io issue or lack of cooperation by the
admins when explicitly requested. Anyway, there's no need to share the
link directly over here, the fact that such a discussion even exists
probably made a lot of people open up their Googles and that's all they
needed. The addon isn't especially hard to find, so I think discussing
it and not sharing it would be the best option. Those who really want it
will find it eventually, those who prefer to stay on the legal side
won't even look for it. I don't think there are people who are able to
install addons but aren't able to make a simple Google query, so I don't
see the point in sharing the link directly if it might get us into
trouble. Those people should know that such a thing exists and that it
is illegal, as it's not clearly indicated on the addons website. That's
why most people think there's a free legal Eloquence.

BTW if groups.io is really that keen on shutting down list for such a
reason (they probably are too lazy to deal with DMCas) then I'm very
uncertain as to this list's future. If it gets big enough, something
will eventually happen whether we want it or not and they might shut the
list down. It might be illegal content, obscene language or whatever
else we might deem appropriate but they won't. I would recommend looking
for alternatives like Googlegroups. Google is much bigger, probably less
whimsy and their skin might be a bit thicker, though we'd have to see
about that.

W dniu 2019-01-03 o 19:42, Gene pisze:
I don't know if others on list know more about the law in the United
States. I do know that many lists have been shut down in the last year
or two for illegally sharing material such as books and movies. The
owner of this list serve has done so. I don't know who else may have,
but such is not allowed on this list serve and probably elsewhere.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* mikolaj holysz <mailto:miki123211@gmail.com>
*Sent:* Thursday, January 03, 2019 11:34 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] NVDA elequence question

> If a list allows such discussions, it is opened to legal liability.
> It is illegal to use such programs. Promoting their use is illegal
> and lists that allow it may be shut down by the owner of whatever
> list serve the list is on and, though very unlikely, the list could
> have legal action taken against it by the owner of whatever
> intellectual property is being used illegally.

Can I ask for a source of that info, please? This is definitely untrue
in most countries. An admin is not and will never be responsible for
what it's users post, if that weren't true, no one would dare to make
web 2.0 websites (like Facebook, Wordpress etc). The only responsibility
of the admin is to remove content from their website if they get an
official letter from a copyright owner stating that this content is
illegal, with all the necessary statements. I don't know why many admins
in the blind community think otherwise. Even so, no law can prohibit
discussing such content if it's not shared. Discussing how much such a
content is worth is, in most cases, allowed. That's why the /r/piracy
Reddit flourishes and Reddit itself doesn't do anything about it. They
don't have to. THey have a strict "no posting of content" policy. They
only put general links to websites, not even direct links to content,
and they're perfectly fine, even though most of that subreddit consists
of threads like "is downloading xxx from torrents safe" or "on what
website can I get books in language xxx for free". Discussing technical
processes used to make cracks or avoid drm might be illegal, though. If
there's someone who can be sued, it's definitely the developer of such
cracked software, and probably the one who put it there, maybe the one
who posted the link but that's questionable.

Of course the information presented above should not be considered legal
advice, and actually doing some reading is recommended. Doing some
reading is always recommended, blindly repeating what others have said
never does us much good, and actually that's what many website owners
do, that's why we have that Eloquence and GDPR dramas in the first
place. Most of that is wildly unnecessary. I personally think that
admins (of websites in general) should do as little as the law allows
them to, respond to whatever they're obliged to respond and not overdo
it out of fear.
--
A good conversation is like a miniskirt;
short enought to retain interest,
but long enough to cover the subject.

- Celeste Headlee


Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.


Re: Add-on Updater: counting down to release of version 19.01.1 #addonrelease

 

Hi,

Actually, I just pushed 19.01.1A that’ll remove the audio surprise (yes, the audio was the surprise), and also includes Italian translation.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2019 12:20 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Add-on Updater: counting down to release of version 19.01.1 #AddonRelease

 

How odd. Can you reinstall the add on? Maybe that will fix it?

On 3 Jan 2019, at 8:10, Roger Stewart wrote:

I'm having the same problem here.  This is the third morning I've seen that message and there is no button that says don't show this dialog again or anything. I just hit the escape key right away and it is gone until the next reboot.

 

Roger

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On 1/2/2019 10:03 PM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

No issue here. I just saw it once, and that's it. Did you restart the computer or nvda to make sure it actually does appear?

Take care

On 2 Jan 2019, at 15:42, Abbie Taylor wrote:

Ever since I updated the add-on, Joseph Lee's Happy New Year message pops up whenever I start NVDA. How do I keep that from happening?
--
Abbie Johnson Taylor, Author
http://www.abbiejohnsontaylor.com
http://abbiescorner.wordpress.com
abbietaylor945@...

 


Re: a situation with NVDA 2018.4 and windows 7

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Indeed it does. That can happen if the user logs out and onto a different user and then there is a bad shutdown.
I'm not sure if one can recover from that easily without possible going back to a time before the problem, but even then, it can still happen.
It is interesting that ease of access is an option on the screen you go to when you start to log out of a user account.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2019 5:36 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] a situation with NVDA 2018.4 and windows 7


Hi,
This might not be the case. Based on the log I got, it appears Ease of Access (utilman.exe) is run when NVDA starts. This indicates a corrupt registry key.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2019 9:19 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] a situation with NVDA 2018.4 and windows 7

I wonder, at some time was the old version launched by a batch file in some way, rather than by the shortcut?
If you do this, depending on how you do it, sometimes a command window opens. However, normally its just a session with no prompt, as exit did not appear in the batch file that launched it. I use this to boot a known good version of nvda with the log of the Previous version when I need the log not to be overwritten by anything.
Normally if there are two shortcuts on the desktop with the same shortcut, both do not launch together!

I use Windows 7 every day and have probably run most flavours of NVDA on it both portable and installed and have never seen anything lie an open command prompt at all.
When was the machine actually last shut down completely and a reboot done?
Odd things can happen if you keep windows in sleep or standby after a software update which is not to windows itself.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Sallander" <bsallander@cvicentralflorida.org>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2019 3:48 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] a situation with NVDA 2018.4 and windows 7


Its being launched in the following manners.
1: I have it automatically start at the logon screen. After it boots to the
desktop is when the command prompt will show.
When I type the word "exit", the command prompt will disappear and I'm left
with the desktop.
I have also launched NVDA using the created shortcut. I would still get the
same results.
I've even gone ahead and changed the hotkey combination but the same thing
still accurse.
There was a previous version on the machine, but it was not working at all.
Therefore, I was not able to get the actual version.
I finally downloaded a fresh copy of the program and installed it.
I also noticed that there was a folder from the older installation, I
deleted that and started everything fresh. There still might be an old file
from older version floating somewhere that might be the cause of this issue.


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Antony
Stone
Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2019 10:40 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] a situation with NVDA 2018.4 and windows 7

1. How are you launching NVDA (and getting the command prompt at the same
time)?

2. What do you mean by "update"? Was a previous version of NVDA installed
on this machine? If so, which version was it and how did you do the update?


Antony.

On Thursday 03 January 2019 at 16:25:31, Bill Sallander wrote:

Greetings everyone and happy 2019.

I’ve recently installed NVDA 2018.4 on a Windows 7 laptop for a client.

It seems when I launch NVDA after this update, it seems to bring up the
command prompt for Windows 7 as well.

I’ve changed the shortcut to a different key combination thinking that
might fix the problem but no good.

Has anyone else had this same issue and if so what was the trick?



Bill Sallander
--
Numerous psychological studies over the years have demonstrated that the
majority of people genuinely believe they are not like the majority of
people.

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC
me.


Re: NVDA elequence question

mikolaj holysz <miki123211@...>
 

It must then either be a groups.io issue or lack of cooperation by the admins when explicitly requested. Anyway, there's no need to share the link directly over here, the fact that such a discussion even exists probably made a lot of people open up their Googles and that's all they needed. The addon isn't especially hard to find, so I think discussing it and not sharing it would be the best option. Those who really want it will find it eventually, those who prefer to stay on the legal side won't even look for it. I don't think there are people who are able to install addons but aren't able to make a simple Google query, so I don't see the point in sharing the link directly if it might get us into trouble. Those people should know that such a thing exists and that it is illegal, as it's not clearly indicated on the addons website. That's why most people think there's a free legal Eloquence.

BTW if groups.io is really that keen on shutting down list for such a reason (they probably are too lazy to deal with DMCas) then I'm very uncertain as to this list's future. If it gets big enough, something will eventually happen whether we want it or not and they might shut the list down. It might be illegal content, obscene language or whatever else we might deem appropriate but they won't. I would recommend looking for alternatives like Googlegroups. Google is much bigger, probably less whimsy and their skin might be a bit thicker, though we'd have to see about that.


W dniu 2019-01-03 o 19:42, Gene pisze:

I don't know if others on list know more about the law in the United States.  I do know that many lists have been shut down in the last year or two for illegally sharing material such as books and movies.  The owner of this list serve has done so.  I don't know who else may have, but such is not allowed on this list serve and probably elsewhere.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* mikolaj holysz <mailto:miki123211@gmail.com>
*Sent:* Thursday, January 03, 2019 11:34 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] NVDA elequence question

> If a list allows such discussions, it is opened to legal liability.  It
> is illegal to use such programs.  Promoting their use is illegal and
> lists that allow it may be shut down by the owner of whatever list serve
> the list is on and, though very unlikely, the list could have legal
> action taken against it by the owner of whatever intellectual property
> is being used illegally.
Can I ask for a source of that info, please? This is definitely untrue
in most countries. An admin is not and will never be responsible for
what it's users post, if that weren't true, no one would dare to make
web 2.0 websites (like Facebook, Wordpress etc). The only responsibility
of the admin is to remove content from their website if they get an
official letter from a copyright owner stating that this content is
illegal, with all the necessary statements. I don't know why many admins
in the blind community think otherwise. Even so, no law can prohibit
discussing such content if it's not shared. Discussing how much such a
content is worth is, in most cases, allowed. That's why the /r/piracy
Reddit flourishes and Reddit itself doesn't do anything about it. They
don't have to. THey have a strict "no posting of content" policy. They
only put general links to websites, not even direct links to content,
and they're perfectly fine, even though most of that subreddit consists
of threads like "is downloading xxx from torrents safe" or "on what
website can I get books in language xxx for free". Discussing technical
processes used to make cracks or avoid drm might be illegal, though. If
there's someone who can be sued, it's definitely the developer of such
cracked software, and probably the one who put it there, maybe the one
who posted the link but that's questionable.
Of course the information presented above should not be considered legal
advice, and actually doing some reading is recommended. Doing some
reading is always recommended, blindly repeating what others have said
never does us much good, and actually that's what many website owners
do, that's why we have that Eloquence and GDPR dramas in the first
place. Most of that is wildly unnecessary. I personally think that
admins (of websites in general) should do as little as the law allows
them to, respond to whatever they're obliged to respond and not overdo
it out of fear.


Re: Add-on Updater: counting down to release of version 19.01.1 #addonrelease

Sarah k Alawami
 

How odd. Can you reinstall the add on? Maybe that will fix it?

On 3 Jan 2019, at 8:10, Roger Stewart wrote:

I'm having the same problem here.  This is the third morning I've seen that message and there is no button that says don't show this dialog again or anything. I just hit the escape key right away and it is gone until the next reboot.

Roger










On 1/2/2019 10:03 PM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

No issue here. I just saw it once, and that's it. Did you restart the computer or nvda to make sure it actually does appear?

Take care

On 2 Jan 2019, at 15:42, Abbie Taylor wrote:

Ever since I updated the add-on, Joseph Lee's Happy New Year message pops up whenever I start NVDA. How do I keep that from happening?
--
Abbie Johnson Taylor, Author
http://www.abbiejohnsontaylor.com
http://abbiescorner.wordpress.com
abbietaylor945@...



Re: NVDA elequence question

Gene
 

I don't know if others on list know more about the law in the United States.  I do know that many lists have been shut down in the last year or two for illegally sharing material such as books and movies.  The owner of this list serve has done so.  I don't know who else may have, but such is not allowed on this list serve and probably elsewhere.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2019 11:34 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA elequence question


> If a list allows such discussions, it is opened to legal liability.  It
> is illegal to use such programs.  Promoting their use is illegal and
> lists that allow it may be shut down by the owner of whatever list serve
> the list is on and, though very unlikely, the list could have legal
> action taken against it by the owner of whatever intellectual property
> is being used illegally.
Can I ask for a source of that info, please? This is definitely untrue
in most countries. An admin is not and will never be responsible for
what it's users post, if that weren't true, no one would dare to make
web 2.0 websites (like Facebook, Wordpress etc). The only responsibility
of the admin is to remove content from their website if they get an
official letter from a copyright owner stating that this content is
illegal, with all the necessary statements. I don't know why many admins
in the blind community think otherwise. Even so, no law can prohibit
discussing such content if it's not shared. Discussing how much such a
content is worth is, in most cases, allowed. That's why the /r/piracy
Reddit flourishes and Reddit itself doesn't do anything about it. They
don't have to. THey have a strict "no posting of content" policy. They
only put general links to websites, not even direct links to content,
and they're perfectly fine, even though most of that subreddit consists
of threads like "is downloading xxx from torrents safe" or "on what
website can I get books in language xxx for free". Discussing technical
processes used to make cracks or avoid drm might be illegal, though. If
there's someone who can be sued, it's definitely the developer of such
cracked software, and probably the one who put it there, maybe the one
who posted the link but that's questionable.

Of course the information presented above should not be considered legal
advice, and actually doing some reading is recommended. Doing some
reading is always recommended, blindly repeating what others have said
never does us much good, and actually that's what many website owners
do, that's why we have that Eloquence and GDPR dramas in the first
place. Most of that is wildly unnecessary. I personally think that
admins (of websites in general) should do as little as the law allows
them to, respond to whatever they're obliged to respond and not overdo
it out of fear.



Re: Browse mode and focus

Felix G.
 

Hi,
thanks for pointing it out! I wouldn't recommend that particular one
though---for me it crashes almost instantly after startup. Which of
course doesn't mean the pull request has problems. Rather, master at
time of build was probably not too well.
Best,
Felix

Am Do., 3. Jan. 2019 um 18:06 Uhr schrieb Joseph Lee
<joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>:


Hi,
Actually, there's really no need to make a try build, because there is already a "try" build: every pull request is built for you automatically so you can test it or let it go through automated testing.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tony Malykh
Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2019 9:04 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Browse mode and focus

HI Felix,
I don't have much time - holidays are over. Making a build is a great idea. You can make it straight from my fork:
https://github.com/mltony/nvda
branch fast_browse_mode.
By the way is there a document explaining how to make builds? I only found the one explaining how to run from sources, but I assume you want to make an executable build.
And please do let me know what you think about fast browse mode.

Best
Tony

On 1/3/19, Felix G. <constantlyvariable@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi!
I'm excited and enthusiastic about this. What accessibility needs are
interfaces that don't just work in principle but are delightful to
use; or to put it bluntly, a user experience that does not suck,
driven by people who do not think being dissatisfied means being
ungrateful.
@Tony do you have the resources to make a try build? Otherwise I'll do
it in just a few days when i'm back where my tech stuff is.
@Joseph that research project sounds interesting. Can you give a
pointer please?
Best,
Felix


Am Di., 1. Jan. 2019 um 01:35 Uhr schrieb marcio via Groups.Io
<marcinhorj21=yahoo.com.br@groups.io>:

Sure, so I'm going to try Super Browser to see what it's like. Taking
the risk, of course, but it's all about experiments :) Thanks for the
answer.

________________________________
Cheers,
Marcio
________________________________
Where to find me:
My Yahoo! email
Add me on Skype
Follow me on Twitter
Follow or add me on Facebook
Ask me something on CuriousCat
________________________________
Phone(s):
(+55)21-9-81615268 (Tim-RJ)
________________________________
My WhatsApp
________________________________
Em 31/12/2018 22:32, Tony Malykh escreveu:

This is not an andd-on, this is rather a pull request - a patch for
NVDA. It does very similar things but in a much cleaner way.
SuperBrowser add-on was experimental, since it broke many things.
Pull request I prepared cannot be installed - rather NVDA devs should
hopefully merge it into the next release of NVDA, but it speeds up
browsing experience without breaking anything (hopefully - it doesn't
break anything for me, but more testing might reveal more problems).

On 12/31/18, marcio via Groups.Io
<marcinhorj21=yahoo.com.br@groups.io>
wrote:

Hello Tony,
Could you please tell me the differences between this add-on and the
old called Super Browser?
I downloaded the latter I said but have never tested it.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
---
Cheers,
Marcio

---------------------------------------------------------------------
---
Where to find me:
My Yahoo! email <mailto:marcinhorj21@yahoo.com.br>
Add me on Skype <skype:marcinhorj666?add> Follow me on Twitter
<https://twitter.com/firirinfonfon>
Follow or add me on Facebook <https://facebook.com/firirinfonfon>
Ask me something on CuriousCat <https://curiouscat.me/firirinfonfon>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
---
Phone(s):
(+55)21-9-81615268 (Tim-RJ)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
--- My WhatsApp <https://api.whatsapp.com/send?phone=5521981615268>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
--- Em 31/12/2018 22:14, Tony Malykh escreveu:

I have created a pull request that speeds up browse mode. Now I hope
NVDA devs will be kind enough to accept it:
https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/pull/9114

Basically it creates a new mode in NVDA that can be toggled on and
off by pressing NVDA+8 (remember to uninstall my SuperBrowser add-on
that overrides the same keystroke). In this mode system focus doesn't
follow browse mode and the entire browsing experience is much
smoother on my computer. Edit boxes don't steal your focus without
your permission either.

--Tony


On 12/29/18, Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@gmail.com> wrote:

If they approve, can you put this on the central repo for the add ons?
This seems very useful.

Take care

On 28 Dec 2018, at 21:57, David Goldfield wrote:

Tony,

I meant to thank you for this addon. As you say it does seem to
improve responsiveness while accessing the Web and so I'm very
grateful that you took the time to write and release this.

Thank you for your service.

David Goldfield, Assistive Technology Specialist
WWW.David-Goldfield.Com<http://WWW.David-Goldfield.Com>
On 12/25/2018 2:47 PM, Tony Malykh wrote:

I just wrote a tiny add-on that prevents NVDA from sending focus
events to the browser.
Binary:
https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgit
hub.com%2Fmltony%2Fnvda-super-browser%2Freleases%2Fdownload%2Fv0.1dev
%2Fsuperbrowser-0.1dev.nvda-addon&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C3154617091b94
54bcc3608d66aa1c72b%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6368
13640388529360&amp;sdata=eTebXXud1KO6xO2fZbS5GsH%2BOfft7%2B2s94W7ItAV
CQQ%3D&amp;reserved=0
Source and description:
https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgit
hub.com%2Fmltony%2Fnvda-super-browser%2F&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C315461
7091b9454bcc3608d66aa1c72b%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0
%7C636813640388529360&amp;sdata=mrmdXsR7tcB76B%2BRMmiDNu3wIqzO05CGCc7
X3jNQfas%3D&amp;reserved=0 Press NVDA+8 to turn focus sending to
browsers on and off.
It's not a production-ready add-on, as it introduces a lot of side
effects when not sending focus events. However, it'll give you an
idea how much faster and more responsive your browsing experience
might become without these focus events being sent back and forth.


On 12/21/18, Gene <gsasner@gmail.com><mailto:gsasner@gmail.com> wrote:


Are you sure you have automatic switching off in NVDA? I never have
browse mode turn off when I have the automatic switching feature off.
I have repeatedly said that automatic switching should not be on by
default.
It is
not a setting that people should have on unless they know about it
and understand exactly how it works.

And to confuse unknowledgeable and learning users more, it
automatically switches modes when you move in some ways and it
doesn't switch when you move in other ways. People learning how to
use the internet should not have this feature confusing them and
making it harder to learn.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Tony Malykh
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 1:11 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Browse mode and focus


I must also add that edit boxes sporadically entering forms mode is a
very big problem for me. At work I have to use a website that
contains an edit box that somehow always enters forms mode and once
this happens, the web site opens a popup dialog somewhere in the end
of the page and brings the focus there. So there is no easy way to go
past that edit box and the entire website becomes unusable. I know,
this is probably not a very screenreader-friendly website, but Jaws
manages to work fine with it somehow. I would say that this problem
is one of the major disadvantages of NVDA compared to Jaws.

On 12/21/18, Tony Malykh via Groups.Io
<anton.malykh=gmail.com@groups.io><mailto:anton.malykh=gmail.com@grou
ps.io>
wrote:


Hi Felix,
I experience all the same problems as you described: rubber band
browse mode cursor jumping back on large webpages, and also edit
boxes automatically entering forms mode even though I didn't ask them to.
It's good to know that this is a known issue, but this indeed seems
like a complicated issue to fix.
1. It seems to me that adding a switch like "browse mode cursor moves
system focus" would be a very useful fix in the short term. We
already have a "caret moves review cursor" switch bound to NVDA+6 -
so it seems to be just a question of adding another switch like this.
I have to say that most of the web sites work fine for me with
current NVDA behavior, and for those websites that don't work very
well, this new switch might come very handy.
2. Do you know how Jaws works around this problem? Do they not update
system focus at all when in browse mode? Or they only update it when
they realise that some other gesture might require updated focus?

Best
Tony


On 12/21/18, Felix G.
<constantlyvariable@gmail.com><mailto:constantlyvariable@gmail.com>
wrote:


Just found a ticket on this problem:
https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgit
hub.com%2Fnvaccess%2Fnvda%2Fissues%2F2039&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C31546
17091b9454bcc3608d66aa1c72b%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C
0%7C636813640388529360&amp;sdata=%2BjIsiaGma9V0Ym0juy2COLOD1v1Dq9HThN
IY3tzkOpE%3D&amp;reserved=0
Best,
Felix

Am Fr., 21. Dez. 2018 um 15:51 Uhr schrieb Felix G. via Groups.Io
<constantlyvariable=gmail.com@groups.io><mailto:constantlyvariable=gmail.com@groups.io>:



Hello Gene,
exactly, that's what I am referring to: A way to move the browse mode
cursor through a page without triggering events in the browser. It
would feel lightning-fast, as it would only involve changing a
position in an internal textual representation fully managed by NVDA
in its own process space. When hitting enter or the space bar to
interact with something, focus could then be brought to that object.
The analogy in the sighted world is that of a touch screen: Just
looking at the contents does not generate events, and is therefore
not slowed down by anything the browser needs to handle.
I am calling those events focus changes because technically that's
what they are. Focus, in this context, is the Windows concept defined
as a control's responsibility for handling keyboard input. It's hard
to describe without leaving a lot of dangling terms as it's a very
technical notion in Windows programming.
Best,
Felix

Am Fr., 21. Dez. 2018 um 15:29 Uhr schrieb Gene
<gsasner@gmail.com><mailto:gsasner@gmail.com>:



I may Have misunderstood what you want to do and I may not have the
technical knowledge to fully understand what you want changed. Are
you talking about being able to move through a web page and have
browse mode just show you the page, as though you had copied it into
something like Notepad? In that case, you would move, but nothing
would ever be triggered on the page as you move. But you seem to be
discussing this related to a feature that allows a person to see
where the blind person is on the page. If so, why are you assuming
they are related? Isn't there already a setting to turn off this
feature, used by sighted instructors or others working with a blind
person?

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 8:14 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Browse mode and focus

I suspect that the JAWS cursor may see the web page text when NVDA
review doesn't.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 5:06 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Browse mode and focus

Probably not, but if you can explain a little more clearly when you
need to have it as you describe then we might be a bit wiser.
Remember not everyone has Jaws or uses all if its features, so we may
learn something here.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk<mailto:bglists@blueyonder.co.uk>
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk<mailto:briang1@blueyonder.co.uk>, putting
'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Felix G."
<constantlyvariable@gmail.com><mailto:constantlyvariable@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io><mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 9:29 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Browse mode and focus




Hello Marcio,
I could only find checkboxes dealing with the conditions for
automatically switching to focus mode, but nothing related to focus
changes. Those are completely different concepts. Are you sure we are
on the same page?
Best,
Felix

Am Fr., 21. Dez. 2018 um 09:45 Uhr schrieb marcio via Groups.Io
<marcinhorj21=yahoo.com.br@groups.io><mailto:marcinhorj21=yahoo.com.br@groups.io>:



Hello,
You can configure it through the Settings, which can be found at the
NVDA Menu (NVDA+N).
Search for browse mode, then uncheck the boxes on automatic change or
something like that. I don't know how it should appear because I'm
not using NVDA in English, but I hope it can help you somehow.

________________________________
Cheers,
Marcio
________________________________
Where to find me:
My Yahoo! email
Add me on Skype
Follow me on Twitter
Follow or add me on Facebook
Ask me something on CuriousCat
________________________________
Phone(s):
(+55)21-9-81615268 (Tim-RJ)
________________________________
My WhatsApp
________________________________
Em 21/12/2018 05:53, Felix G. escreveu:

Hello list,
I'd like to ask how to keep focus from following the browse mode
cursor. While this behavior may often be desirable, there are many
instances in which it unnecessarily slows down the browsing
experience as NVDA needs to constantly keep track of focus events,
deciding whether or not they are related to browse mode cursor
movements.
With
unfortunate timing, NVDA sometimes fails to associate a browse mode
cursor action with its corresponding focus event and bounces back a
few lines or switches to forms mode because it thinks focus has
changed asynchronously on behalf of the website rather than the user.
The sighted world analogy of moving the browse mode cursor is simply
reading, which should not be associated with so many events in the
browser.
If anyone would like to try out how the other behavior, as also seen
in JAWS, would feel in terms of speed: Go to a complex website and
then navigate in browse mode, but not using the standard arrow keys
but instead the review cursor (numpad 7 and numpad 9).
All the best,
Felix







































































Re: a situation with NVDA 2018.4 and windows 7

 

Hi,
This might not be the case. Based on the log I got, it appears Ease of Access (utilman.exe) is run when NVDA starts. This indicates a corrupt registry key.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2019 9:19 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] a situation with NVDA 2018.4 and windows 7

I wonder, at some time was the old version launched by a batch file in some way, rather than by the shortcut?
If you do this, depending on how you do it, sometimes a command window opens. However, normally its just a session with no prompt, as exit did not appear in the batch file that launched it. I use this to boot a known good version of nvda with the log of the Previous version when I need the log not to be overwritten by anything.
Normally if there are two shortcuts on the desktop with the same shortcut, both do not launch together!

I use Windows 7 every day and have probably run most flavours of NVDA on it both portable and installed and have never seen anything lie an open command prompt at all.
When was the machine actually last shut down completely and a reboot done?
Odd things can happen if you keep windows in sleep or standby after a software update which is not to windows itself.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Sallander" <bsallander@cvicentralflorida.org>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2019 3:48 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] a situation with NVDA 2018.4 and windows 7


Its being launched in the following manners.
1: I have it automatically start at the logon screen. After it boots to the
desktop is when the command prompt will show.
When I type the word "exit", the command prompt will disappear and I'm left
with the desktop.
I have also launched NVDA using the created shortcut. I would still get the
same results.
I've even gone ahead and changed the hotkey combination but the same thing
still accurse.
There was a previous version on the machine, but it was not working at all.
Therefore, I was not able to get the actual version.
I finally downloaded a fresh copy of the program and installed it.
I also noticed that there was a folder from the older installation, I
deleted that and started everything fresh. There still might be an old file
from older version floating somewhere that might be the cause of this issue.


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Antony
Stone
Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2019 10:40 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] a situation with NVDA 2018.4 and windows 7

1. How are you launching NVDA (and getting the command prompt at the same
time)?

2. What do you mean by "update"? Was a previous version of NVDA installed
on this machine? If so, which version was it and how did you do the update?


Antony.

On Thursday 03 January 2019 at 16:25:31, Bill Sallander wrote:

Greetings everyone and happy 2019.

I’ve recently installed NVDA 2018.4 on a Windows 7 laptop for a client.

It seems when I launch NVDA after this update, it seems to bring up the
command prompt for Windows 7 as well.

I’ve changed the shortcut to a different key combination thinking that
might fix the problem but no good.

Has anyone else had this same issue and if so what was the trick?



Bill Sallander
--
Numerous psychological studies over the years have demonstrated that the
majority of people genuinely believe they are not like the majority of
people.

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC
me.


Re: NVDA elequence question

mikolaj holysz <miki123211@...>
 

If a list allows such discussions, it is opened to legal liability.  It is illegal to use such programs.  Promoting their use is illegal and lists that allow it may be shut down by the owner of whatever list serve the list is on and, though very unlikely, the list could have legal action taken against it by the owner of whatever intellectual property is being used illegally.
Can I ask for a source of that info, please? This is definitely untrue in most countries. An admin is not and will never be responsible for what it's users post, if that weren't true, no one would dare to make web 2.0 websites (like Facebook, Wordpress etc). The only responsibility of the admin is to remove content from their website if they get an official letter from a copyright owner stating that this content is illegal, with all the necessary statements. I don't know why many admins in the blind community think otherwise. Even so, no law can prohibit discussing such content if it's not shared. Discussing how much such a content is worth is, in most cases, allowed. That's why the /r/piracy Reddit flourishes and Reddit itself doesn't do anything about it. They don't have to. THey have a strict "no posting of content" policy. They only put general links to websites, not even direct links to content, and they're perfectly fine, even though most of that subreddit consists of threads like "is downloading xxx from torrents safe" or "on what website can I get books in language xxx for free". Discussing technical processes used to make cracks or avoid drm might be illegal, though. If there's someone who can be sued, it's definitely the developer of such cracked software, and probably the one who put it there, maybe the one who posted the link but that's questionable.

Of course the information presented above should not be considered legal advice, and actually doing some reading is recommended. Doing some reading is always recommended, blindly repeating what others have said never does us much good, and actually that's what many website owners do, that's why we have that Eloquence and GDPR dramas in the first place. Most of that is wildly unnecessary. I personally think that admins (of websites in general) should do as little as the law allows them to, respond to whatever they're obliged to respond and not overdo it out of fear.


Re: a situation with NVDA 2018.4 and windows 7

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I wonder, at some time was the old version launched by a batch file in some way, rather than by the shortcut?
If you do this, depending on how you do it, sometimes a command window opens. However, normally its just a session with no prompt, as exit did not appear in the batch file that launched it. I use this to boot a known good version of nvda with the log of the Previous version when I need the log not to be overwritten by anything.
Normally if there are two shortcuts on the desktop with the same shortcut, both do not launch together!

I use Windows 7 every day and have probably run most flavours of NVDA on it both portable and installed and have never seen anything lie an open command prompt at all.
When was the machine actually last shut down completely and a reboot done? Odd things can happen if you keep windows in sleep or standby after a software update which is not to windows itself.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Sallander" <bsallander@cvicentralflorida.org>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2019 3:48 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] a situation with NVDA 2018.4 and windows 7


Its being launched in the following manners.
1: I have it automatically start at the logon screen. After it boots to the
desktop is when the command prompt will show.
When I type the word "exit", the command prompt will disappear and I'm left
with the desktop.
I have also launched NVDA using the created shortcut. I would still get the
same results.
I've even gone ahead and changed the hotkey combination but the same thing
still accurse.
There was a previous version on the machine, but it was not working at all.
Therefore, I was not able to get the actual version.
I finally downloaded a fresh copy of the program and installed it.
I also noticed that there was a folder from the older installation, I
deleted that and started everything fresh. There still might be an old file
from older version floating somewhere that might be the cause of this issue.


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Antony
Stone
Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2019 10:40 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] a situation with NVDA 2018.4 and windows 7

1. How are you launching NVDA (and getting the command prompt at the same
time)?

2. What do you mean by "update"? Was a previous version of NVDA installed
on this machine? If so, which version was it and how did you do the update?


Antony.

On Thursday 03 January 2019 at 16:25:31, Bill Sallander wrote:

Greetings everyone and happy 2019.

I’ve recently installed NVDA 2018.4 on a Windows 7 laptop for a client.

It seems when I launch NVDA after this update, it seems to bring up the
command prompt for Windows 7 as well.

I’ve changed the shortcut to a different key combination thinking that
might fix the problem but no good.

Has anyone else had this same issue and if so what was the trick?



Bill Sallander
--
Numerous psychological studies over the years have demonstrated that the
majority of people genuinely believe they are not like the majority of
people.

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC
me.


Re: Browse mode and focus

 

Hi,
Actually, there's really no need to make a try build, because there is already a "try" build: every pull request is built for you automatically so you can test it or let it go through automated testing.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tony Malykh
Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2019 9:04 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Browse mode and focus

HI Felix,
I don't have much time - holidays are over. Making a build is a great idea. You can make it straight from my fork:
https://github.com/mltony/nvda
branch fast_browse_mode.
By the way is there a document explaining how to make builds? I only found the one explaining how to run from sources, but I assume you want to make an executable build.
And please do let me know what you think about fast browse mode.

Best
Tony

On 1/3/19, Felix G. <constantlyvariable@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi!
I'm excited and enthusiastic about this. What accessibility needs are
interfaces that don't just work in principle but are delightful to
use; or to put it bluntly, a user experience that does not suck,
driven by people who do not think being dissatisfied means being
ungrateful.
@Tony do you have the resources to make a try build? Otherwise I'll do
it in just a few days when i'm back where my tech stuff is.
@Joseph that research project sounds interesting. Can you give a
pointer please?
Best,
Felix


Am Di., 1. Jan. 2019 um 01:35 Uhr schrieb marcio via Groups.Io
<marcinhorj21=yahoo.com.br@groups.io>:

Sure, so I'm going to try Super Browser to see what it's like. Taking
the risk, of course, but it's all about experiments :) Thanks for the
answer.

________________________________
Cheers,
Marcio
________________________________
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Em 31/12/2018 22:32, Tony Malykh escreveu:

This is not an andd-on, this is rather a pull request - a patch for
NVDA. It does very similar things but in a much cleaner way.
SuperBrowser add-on was experimental, since it broke many things.
Pull request I prepared cannot be installed - rather NVDA devs should
hopefully merge it into the next release of NVDA, but it speeds up
browsing experience without breaking anything (hopefully - it doesn't
break anything for me, but more testing might reveal more problems).

On 12/31/18, marcio via Groups.Io
<marcinhorj21=yahoo.com.br@groups.io>
wrote:

Hello Tony,
Could you please tell me the differences between this add-on and the
old called Super Browser?
I downloaded the latter I said but have never tested it.

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Cheers,
Marcio

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--- Em 31/12/2018 22:14, Tony Malykh escreveu:

I have created a pull request that speeds up browse mode. Now I hope
NVDA devs will be kind enough to accept it:
https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/pull/9114

Basically it creates a new mode in NVDA that can be toggled on and
off by pressing NVDA+8 (remember to uninstall my SuperBrowser add-on
that overrides the same keystroke). In this mode system focus doesn't
follow browse mode and the entire browsing experience is much
smoother on my computer. Edit boxes don't steal your focus without
your permission either.

--Tony


On 12/29/18, Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@gmail.com> wrote:

If they approve, can you put this on the central repo for the add ons?
This seems very useful.

Take care

On 28 Dec 2018, at 21:57, David Goldfield wrote:

Tony,

I meant to thank you for this addon. As you say it does seem to
improve responsiveness while accessing the Web and so I'm very
grateful that you took the time to write and release this.

Thank you for your service.

David Goldfield, Assistive Technology Specialist
WWW.David-Goldfield.Com<http://WWW.David-Goldfield.Com>
On 12/25/2018 2:47 PM, Tony Malykh wrote:

I just wrote a tiny add-on that prevents NVDA from sending focus
events to the browser.
Binary:
https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgit
hub.com%2Fmltony%2Fnvda-super-browser%2Freleases%2Fdownload%2Fv0.1dev
%2Fsuperbrowser-0.1dev.nvda-addon&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C3154617091b94
54bcc3608d66aa1c72b%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6368
13640388529360&amp;sdata=eTebXXud1KO6xO2fZbS5GsH%2BOfft7%2B2s94W7ItAV
CQQ%3D&amp;reserved=0
Source and description:
https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgit
hub.com%2Fmltony%2Fnvda-super-browser%2F&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C315461
7091b9454bcc3608d66aa1c72b%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0
%7C636813640388529360&amp;sdata=mrmdXsR7tcB76B%2BRMmiDNu3wIqzO05CGCc7
X3jNQfas%3D&amp;reserved=0 Press NVDA+8 to turn focus sending to
browsers on and off.
It's not a production-ready add-on, as it introduces a lot of side
effects when not sending focus events. However, it'll give you an
idea how much faster and more responsive your browsing experience
might become without these focus events being sent back and forth.


On 12/21/18, Gene <gsasner@gmail.com><mailto:gsasner@gmail.com> wrote:


Are you sure you have automatic switching off in NVDA? I never have
browse mode turn off when I have the automatic switching feature off.
I have repeatedly said that automatic switching should not be on by
default.
It is
not a setting that people should have on unless they know about it
and understand exactly how it works.

And to confuse unknowledgeable and learning users more, it
automatically switches modes when you move in some ways and it
doesn't switch when you move in other ways. People learning how to
use the internet should not have this feature confusing them and
making it harder to learn.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Tony Malykh
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 1:11 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Browse mode and focus


I must also add that edit boxes sporadically entering forms mode is a
very big problem for me. At work I have to use a website that
contains an edit box that somehow always enters forms mode and once
this happens, the web site opens a popup dialog somewhere in the end
of the page and brings the focus there. So there is no easy way to go
past that edit box and the entire website becomes unusable. I know,
this is probably not a very screenreader-friendly website, but Jaws
manages to work fine with it somehow. I would say that this problem
is one of the major disadvantages of NVDA compared to Jaws.

On 12/21/18, Tony Malykh via Groups.Io
<anton.malykh=gmail.com@groups.io><mailto:anton.malykh=gmail.com@grou
ps.io>
wrote:


Hi Felix,
I experience all the same problems as you described: rubber band
browse mode cursor jumping back on large webpages, and also edit
boxes automatically entering forms mode even though I didn't ask them to.
It's good to know that this is a known issue, but this indeed seems
like a complicated issue to fix.
1. It seems to me that adding a switch like "browse mode cursor moves
system focus" would be a very useful fix in the short term. We
already have a "caret moves review cursor" switch bound to NVDA+6 -
so it seems to be just a question of adding another switch like this.
I have to say that most of the web sites work fine for me with
current NVDA behavior, and for those websites that don't work very
well, this new switch might come very handy.
2. Do you know how Jaws works around this problem? Do they not update
system focus at all when in browse mode? Or they only update it when
they realise that some other gesture might require updated focus?

Best
Tony


On 12/21/18, Felix G.
<constantlyvariable@gmail.com><mailto:constantlyvariable@gmail.com>
wrote:


Just found a ticket on this problem:
https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgit
hub.com%2Fnvaccess%2Fnvda%2Fissues%2F2039&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C31546
17091b9454bcc3608d66aa1c72b%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C
0%7C636813640388529360&amp;sdata=%2BjIsiaGma9V0Ym0juy2COLOD1v1Dq9HThN
IY3tzkOpE%3D&amp;reserved=0
Best,
Felix

Am Fr., 21. Dez. 2018 um 15:51 Uhr schrieb Felix G. via Groups.Io
<constantlyvariable=gmail.com@groups.io><mailto:constantlyvariable=gmail.com@groups.io>:



Hello Gene,
exactly, that's what I am referring to: A way to move the browse mode
cursor through a page without triggering events in the browser. It
would feel lightning-fast, as it would only involve changing a
position in an internal textual representation fully managed by NVDA
in its own process space. When hitting enter or the space bar to
interact with something, focus could then be brought to that object.
The analogy in the sighted world is that of a touch screen: Just
looking at the contents does not generate events, and is therefore
not slowed down by anything the browser needs to handle.
I am calling those events focus changes because technically that's
what they are. Focus, in this context, is the Windows concept defined
as a control's responsibility for handling keyboard input. It's hard
to describe without leaving a lot of dangling terms as it's a very
technical notion in Windows programming.
Best,
Felix

Am Fr., 21. Dez. 2018 um 15:29 Uhr schrieb Gene
<gsasner@gmail.com><mailto:gsasner@gmail.com>:



I may Have misunderstood what you want to do and I may not have the
technical knowledge to fully understand what you want changed. Are
you talking about being able to move through a web page and have
browse mode just show you the page, as though you had copied it into
something like Notepad? In that case, you would move, but nothing
would ever be triggered on the page as you move. But you seem to be
discussing this related to a feature that allows a person to see
where the blind person is on the page. If so, why are you assuming
they are related? Isn't there already a setting to turn off this
feature, used by sighted instructors or others working with a blind
person?

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 8:14 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Browse mode and focus

I suspect that the JAWS cursor may see the web page text when NVDA
review doesn't.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 5:06 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Browse mode and focus

Probably not, but if you can explain a little more clearly when you
need to have it as you describe then we might be a bit wiser.
Remember not everyone has Jaws or uses all if its features, so we may
learn something here.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk<mailto:bglists@blueyonder.co.uk>
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk<mailto:briang1@blueyonder.co.uk>, putting
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Felix G."
<constantlyvariable@gmail.com><mailto:constantlyvariable@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io><mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 9:29 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Browse mode and focus




Hello Marcio,
I could only find checkboxes dealing with the conditions for
automatically switching to focus mode, but nothing related to focus
changes. Those are completely different concepts. Are you sure we are
on the same page?
Best,
Felix

Am Fr., 21. Dez. 2018 um 09:45 Uhr schrieb marcio via Groups.Io
<marcinhorj21=yahoo.com.br@groups.io><mailto:marcinhorj21=yahoo.com.br@groups.io>:



Hello,
You can configure it through the Settings, which can be found at the
NVDA Menu (NVDA+N).
Search for browse mode, then uncheck the boxes on automatic change or
something like that. I don't know how it should appear because I'm
not using NVDA in English, but I hope it can help you somehow.

________________________________
Cheers,
Marcio
________________________________
Where to find me:
My Yahoo! email
Add me on Skype
Follow me on Twitter
Follow or add me on Facebook
Ask me something on CuriousCat
________________________________
Phone(s):
(+55)21-9-81615268 (Tim-RJ)
________________________________
My WhatsApp
________________________________
Em 21/12/2018 05:53, Felix G. escreveu:

Hello list,
I'd like to ask how to keep focus from following the browse mode
cursor. While this behavior may often be desirable, there are many
instances in which it unnecessarily slows down the browsing
experience as NVDA needs to constantly keep track of focus events,
deciding whether or not they are related to browse mode cursor
movements.
With
unfortunate timing, NVDA sometimes fails to associate a browse mode
cursor action with its corresponding focus event and bounces back a
few lines or switches to forms mode because it thinks focus has
changed asynchronously on behalf of the website rather than the user.
The sighted world analogy of moving the browse mode cursor is simply
reading, which should not be associated with so many events in the
browser.
If anyone would like to try out how the other behavior, as also seen
in JAWS, would feel in terms of speed: Go to a complex website and
then navigate in browse mode, but not using the standard arrow keys
but instead the review cursor (numpad 7 and numpad 9).
All the best,
Felix