Date   
Re: Mouse Navigation with NVDA - Do you use it? Do you like it?

David Moore
 

Hi,
One of the main reasons I use NVDA as a back up to JAWS is because of what you can do with the mouse pointer. I love being able to move my finger around the touch pad on my Laptop and hear NVDA read what the pointer is going over. I have mastered it so well, I can use the touch pad almost as well as a sighted person and click. Just think, I can hear what I am doing with the touch pad and do a normal click or right click and totally use the mouse in a program such as a security software program. I sure cannot do that with the JAWS cursor! Go NVDA! May become muy primary screen reader before long. It is so much snappier in programs as well. NVDA works very well in Google Docs and all of those Google programs. Have a great one.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jacob Kruger
Sent: Wednesday, March 9, 2016 3:45 PM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Mouse Navigation with NVDA - Do you use it? Do you like it?

Brian, while don't honestly use it too often, the one true advantage
NVDA has in this context is that it actually reads out what's under the
physical mouse cursor, as wel l as letting you manipulate it using
keystrokes, whereas jaws will only let you use the virtual jaws cursor,
so, yes, at times NVDA's mouse cursor implementation offers something
you can't work with any other way.

And, the audio tracking sound is an excellent way to keep track of
approximately where the cursor is as well, what with stereo panning, and
pitch differences, etc.

Stay well

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's closet..."

On 2016-03-09 5:15 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
The subject pretty much says it all. One of the most interesting
features of NVDA from this sighted guy's perspective is mouse tracking,
which announces what's under the mouse pointer, used in conjunction with
the NVDA left and right click keystrokes (or the actual left and right
click buttons on a mouse or mousepad).

By moving the mouse around the screen you get an experience that strikes
me as far more like what someone who can see gets when they're scanning
a webpage quickly to see if there's anything that interests them. Of
course, it takes some getting used to, and you'll probably have to do
some adjustments on mouse behavior (speed and distance of movement,
coasting, and others) to get mouse movement that's comfortable for you.

I'm just curious as to who may be using this method to cruise around the
screen, and for any program, not just web browsers, and what your
experience was like learning how to use this feature and these methods.
I realize that there are certain applications and contexts where this
would be way more trouble than it's worth, too, and opinions on where
it's worth using and not would be interesting.

My gut tells me that it will be a small cadre that uses this feature
set, but I'm trying to decide whether it's something worth trying to
teach up front or not. There's nothing like asking those who do use it,
or have tried to use it, as a functional navigation alternative to help
shape my thoughts on this.

Brian

Re: Firefox is driving me crazy!

Chris Mullins
 

Have you tried the same web page in a different browser and got the same
results?

Cheers
Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: Mallard [mailto:mallard@...]
Sent: 09 March 2016 18:34
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox is driving me crazy!

Yes Patrick,
I do use K and Shift+K too, but it happens anyway...

I've even tried bringing the mouse to focus, and double-clicking with the
left mouse button on the numpad... The best that happens is that I have to
click or press enter twice on a link to activate it, the worst is that
something completely diffrent opens.

It started midway through the life of FF44, and it's still here in 45...
Ciao,
Ollie




Il 09/03/2016 17:24, Patrick Le Baudour ha scritto:
Hello,

One thing to be careful of is to make sure nvda only has a link in
focus - I usually use k and shift-k to do that. When there is, for
example, a bullet then a link, then it may open something altogether.
I've been had by that several times those last weeks.

-- Patrick


Le 09/03/2016 17:01, Mallard a écrit :
Hello list,
For a week or so now, Firefox is driving me crazy.

When I click on a link on a webpage, for some reason I end up
clicking on something different from the one I had under my fingers
on my braille display or that is read by the synth.

Today I even upgraded to Firefox 45.0 to see whether the problem
could be solved, but no... Still the same.

I'm using the latest Next snapshot of NVDA, but the same thing
happens with an older version of NVDA (2015.2), so I think it might
be something in Firefox.

Has anyone experienced someghing similar?

Ciao,
Ollie





Re: Firefox is driving me crazy!

 

On Wed, Mar 9, 2016 at 12:11 pm, Chris <chrismedley@...> wrote:
the best way to sort this is to start from scratch with a new firfox profile with the default profile

This, or doing a Firefox refresh, which accomplishes the same thing, was what I'd suggest as thing to try #2 after clearing cache.

There are a number of very simple things one can do that often eliminate problems like this one and they take so little time they're worth just trying.

Brian

Re: A curiousity: is nv speech player available for the Italian language?

ChrisLeo
 

Hi Angela,
Nv Speech Player can only speak English.

There's available the speechPlayerInEspeak add-on, this integrates the nvSpeechPlayer synthesis engine into eSpeak itself, replacing eSpeak's existing Klatt engine.
Cheers.

Chris.

Angela Delicata via Groups.io, 09/03/2016 20:11:

Hi,
I was trying a synth called nv speech player, but it is in English only:
is there an Italian version also?
It sounds a bit like Eloquence.

Thank you.
Angela from Italy


Re: Mouse Navigation with NVDA - Do you use it? Do you like it?

Jacob Kruger
 

Brian, while don't honestly use it too often, the one true advantage NVDA has in this context is that it actually reads out what's under the physical mouse cursor, as wel l as letting you manipulate it using keystrokes, whereas jaws will only let you use the virtual jaws cursor, so, yes, at times NVDA's mouse cursor implementation offers something you can't work with any other way.

And, the audio tracking sound is an excellent way to keep track of approximately where the cursor is as well, what with stereo panning, and pitch differences, etc.

Stay well

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's closet..."

On 2016-03-09 5:15 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
The subject pretty much says it all. One of the most interesting
features of NVDA from this sighted guy's perspective is mouse tracking,
which announces what's under the mouse pointer, used in conjunction with
the NVDA left and right click keystrokes (or the actual left and right
click buttons on a mouse or mousepad).

By moving the mouse around the screen you get an experience that strikes
me as far more like what someone who can see gets when they're scanning
a webpage quickly to see if there's anything that interests them. Of
course, it takes some getting used to, and you'll probably have to do
some adjustments on mouse behavior (speed and distance of movement,
coasting, and others) to get mouse movement that's comfortable for you.

I'm just curious as to who may be using this method to cruise around the
screen, and for any program, not just web browsers, and what your
experience was like learning how to use this feature and these methods.
I realize that there are certain applications and contexts where this
would be way more trouble than it's worth, too, and opinions on where
it's worth using and not would be interesting.

My gut tells me that it will be a small cadre that uses this feature
set, but I'm trying to decide whether it's something worth trying to
teach up front or not. There's nothing like asking those who do use it,
or have tried to use it, as a functional navigation alternative to help
shape my thoughts on this.

Brian

Re: NVDA shortcuts and some questions about it!

Gene NZ <hurrikennyandopo@...>
 

Hi Helga

If you have a installed copy of NVDA use the CTRL key +ALT key +the letter N key.  This will start your copy of NVDA.
To get into your preferences of NVDA where you can make changes like speeding it up or down etc, use the NVDA key + the letter N
To quit your copy of NVDA use the NVDA key + the letter Q

Where I refer to the NVDA key this is a modifier key which can be either the insert key, the extended insert key or the capslock key. So you would use one of these that you chose say to quit your copy of NVDA For example the insert key + the letter Q


All of my machines here are on Windows 10, and I like it.  When bus are found and reported, you will notice what has been done under the whats new section in NVDA which is under the help section also where the user manual is.

Gene nz


On 10-Mar-16 8:38 AM, Helga Schreiber wrote:
Hi all!This is helga! How are you all? I I actually just realize I install NVDA on my windows computer! Before,but I actually forgot  about it! LOL! Now i want to learn hwo ot use it so I'm going to practice soeme things with it! Now my questions, is therre a shortcut key in ordr to turn on and turn off NVDA guys? You know   JAWS has alt plus control J in ordr to turn it on. And to turnit off insert F4.  So I was thinking  nVDA maybe has the same thing!  So if it does, do you know what it is? If it does not have one, how can I create one in ordr to accomplish that? Just wondring! On my computer i have NVDA and JAWS 14, but I want to explore adn learn with NVDA guys!  And one last question, does NVDA works great with Windows 10 so far guys? Just owndring! Whati  your experience about it? I apologize for all these questions! I look forward in hearing form you soon.  I will really appreciate any help tht you gusy can help me  regarding this matter! Thanks  and God bless!

Helga Schreiber 

Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of Blind Students.
Member of the International Networkers Team (INT).
Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research.
Phone:  (561) 706-5950 
Skype: helga.schreiber26 
INT Website: http://int4life.com/ 

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16 
Sent from my iPhone 6S running IOS 9.2.1  

Re: Firefox is driving me crazy!

Chris
 

hi,

the best way to sort this is to start from scratch with a new firfox profile with the default profile

if that works then you  know where the problem lies

this can be easily done by backing up your profile folder in x:\users\profile name\appdata\roaming\mozilla

then delet the folder and restart firefox

it should then start with no extensions and default profile

it sounds like an extension that may be at fault so dont install all at once just try one at a time

good luck anyway

Chris



On 09/03/2016 20:01, Dejan Ristic wrote:
Do you have it maximized? It's happened to me when I use it minimized. As you say, the unit reads a link, but as far as clicking is concerned, something different comes into view. Have you tried the focus mode to click on a link and/or a button in? I use the very one when I fail to activate a button or a link.

On 3/9/2016 5:01 PM, Mallard wrote:
Hello list,
For a week or so now, Firefox is driving me crazy.

When I click on a link on a webpage, for some reason I end up clicking on something different from the one I had under my fingers on my braille display or that is read by the synth.

Today I even upgraded to Firefox 45.0 to see whether the problem could be solved, but no... Still the same.

I'm using the latest Next snapshot of NVDA, but the same thing happens with an older version of NVDA (2015.2), so I think it might be something in Firefox.

Has anyone experienced someghing similar?

Ciao,
Ollie



.







Re: NVDA shortcuts and some questions about it!

marvin kotler
 

Alt plus control plus n brings up nvda; insert plus q allows you to exit.
Marv

Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2016 11:38 AM
Subject: [nvda] NVDA shortcuts and some questions about it!
 
Hi all!This is helga! How are you all? I I actually just realize I install NVDA on my windows computer! Before,but I actually forgot  about it! LOL! Now i want to learn hwo ot use it so I'm going to practice soeme things with it! Now my questions, is therre a shortcut key in ordr to turn on and turn off NVDA guys? You know   JAWS has alt plus control J in ordr to turn it on. And to turnit off insert F4.  So I was thinking  nVDA maybe has the same thing!  So if it does, do you know what it is? If it does not have one, how can I create one in ordr to accomplish that? Just wondring! On my computer i have NVDA and JAWS 14, but I want to explore adn learn with NVDA guys!  And one last question, does NVDA works great with Windows 10 so far guys? Just owndring! Whati  your experience about it? I apologize for all these questions! I look forward in hearing form you soon.  I will really appreciate any help tht you gusy can help me  regarding this matter! Thanks  and God bless!

Helga Schreiber 
 
Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of Blind Students.
Member of the International Networkers Team (INT).
Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research.
Phone:  (561) 706-5950
Skype: helga.schreiber26
INT Website: http://int4life.com/ 
 
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16
Sent from my iPhone 6S running IOS 9.2.1 
 

Re: Firefox is driving me crazy!

Dejan Ristic
 

Do you have it maximized? It's happened to me when I use it minimized. As you say, the unit reads a link, but as far as clicking is concerned, something different comes into view. Have you tried the focus mode to click on a link and/or a button in? I use the very one when I fail to activate a button or a link.

On 3/9/2016 5:01 PM, Mallard wrote:
Hello list,
For a week or so now, Firefox is driving me crazy.

When I click on a link on a webpage, for some reason I end up clicking on something different from the one I had under my fingers on my braille display or that is read by the synth.

Today I even upgraded to Firefox 45.0 to see whether the problem could be solved, but no... Still the same.

I'm using the latest Next snapshot of NVDA, but the same thing happens with an older version of NVDA (2015.2), so I think it might be something in Firefox.

Has anyone experienced someghing similar?

Ciao,
Ollie


.

NVDA shortcuts and some questions about it!

Helga Schreiber
 

Hi all!This is helga! How are you all? I I actually just realize I install NVDA on my windows computer! Before,but I actually forgot  about it! LOL! Now i want to learn hwo ot use it so I'm going to practice soeme things with it! Now my questions, is therre a shortcut key in ordr to turn on and turn off NVDA guys? You know   JAWS has alt plus control J in ordr to turn it on. And to turnit off insert F4.  So I was thinking  nVDA maybe has the same thing!  So if it does, do you know what it is? If it does not have one, how can I create one in ordr to accomplish that? Just wondring! On my computer i have NVDA and JAWS 14, but I want to explore adn learn with NVDA guys!  And one last question, does NVDA works great with Windows 10 so far guys? Just owndring! Whati  your experience about it? I apologize for all these questions! I look forward in hearing form you soon.  I will really appreciate any help tht you gusy can help me  regarding this matter! Thanks  and God bless!

Helga Schreiber 

Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of Blind Students.
Member of the International Networkers Team (INT).
Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research.
Phone:  (561) 706-5950 
Skype: helga.schreiber26 
INT Website: http://int4life.com/ 

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16 
Sent from my iPhone 6S running IOS 9.2.1  

Re: Firefox is driving me crazy!

Mallard
 

Thanks Brian,

Sounds interesting. And, in any case, it can't do any harm... I have Ccleaner; I'll run it right now.

Many thanks. You're full of good suggestions...
Ciao,
Ollie

Il 09/03/2016 17:14, Brian Vogel ha scritto:

Ollie,

This is a pure SWAG on my part, but I've encountered so many bizarre problems caused by cache corruption that the first thing I'd recommend is that you clear all browser cache in Firefox. If you use CCleaner it will work (and a bit faster) or you can follow the instructions on the Firefox Clear Cache <https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/how-clear-firefox-cache?redirectlocale=en-US&redirectslug=How+to+clear+the+cache> page.

Try that and see if it resolves the problem. If it doesn't at least we can eliminate cache corruption as the root cause.

Brian

Re: Mouse Navigation with NVDA - Do you use it? Do you like it?

Mallard
 

Thanks heaps.
Ciao,
Ollie

Il 09/03/2016 20:12, Gene New Zealand ha scritto:
Hi Ollie

You can get to the golden cursor through the add on manager in NVDA. Just locate the button that says get add ons and when the browser opens it should be in that list of add ons. if not i think it can also be found on add ons under development.

All the commands are there to use it, but when you go to read the documentation, I think it needs comas so nvda slows between commands, unless I had that part turned off in NVDA.


Gene nz


On 10-Mar-16 7:29 AM, Mallard wrote:

I read something about thie Golden Cursor, but I have no clue as to where it can be found.
Any ideas or links, please? I'd be interested...
Ciao,
Ollie




Il 09/03/2016 17:36, Aravind R ha scritto:
one add on called golden cursor helps us to navigate mouse using
keyboard by typing pixal positions.
but, we have to experiment the various pixal coordinate positions and learn

On 3/9/16, Mallard <mallard@...> wrote:
Hello Brian,

I use a mouse from time to time. I have been using an Optacon since 1977
(I still use it daily, especially for multilanguage book reading), so
using a physical mouse isn't all that complicated for me.
Being used to exploring physical, printed pages, certainly represents a
significant advantage in mouse use.

My main difficulty is dealing with the boundaries of the mouse pad...

Ciao,
Ollie




Il 09/03/2016 16:15, Brian Vogel ha scritto:
The subject pretty much says it all. One of the most interesting
features of NVDA from this sighted guy's perspective is mouse
tracking, which announces what's under the mouse pointer, used in
conjunction with the NVDA left and right click keystrokes (or the
actual left and right click buttons on a mouse or mousepad).

By moving the mouse around the screen you get an experience that
strikes me as far more like what someone who can see gets when they're
scanning a webpage quickly to see if there's anything that interests
them. Of course, it takes some getting used to, and you'll probably
have to do some adjustments on mouse behavior (speed and distance of
movement, coasting, and others) to get mouse movement that's
comfortable for you.

I'm just curious as to who may be using this method to cruise around
the screen, and for any program, not just web browsers, and what your
experience was like learning how to use this feature and these
methods. I realize that there are certain applications and contexts
where this would be way more trouble than it's worth, too, and
opinions on where it's worth using and not would be interesting.

My gut tells me that it will be a small cadre that uses this feature
set, but I'm trying to decide whether it's something worth trying to
teach up front or not. There's nothing like asking those who do use
it, or have tried to use it, as a functional navigation alternative to
help shape my thoughts on this.

Brian







Re: A curiousity: is nv speech player available for the Italian language?

 

hi. yes. its like espeak, has espeak voices and also has all voices
that espeak has.

On 3/9/16, Angela Delicata via Groups.io
<angeladelicata=libero.it@groups.io> wrote:
Hi,
I was trying a synth called nv speech player, but it is in English only:
is there an Italian version also?
It sounds a bit like Eloquence.

Thank you.
Angela from Italy




--
O people! there has come to you indeed an admonition from your Lord
and a healing for what is in the breasts and a guidance and a mercy
for the believers.
Say: In the grace of Allah and in His mercy-- in that they should
rejoice; it is better than that which they gather.
holy quran, chapter 10 verses 57 and 58.

please visit al-islam.org

Re: Using a place marker with NVDA

 


Hi all,

Can I use a place marker on a web page similar to Jaws?

Marion


Contac:marionwoods598@...

A proud member of the Roses Forum.

“The only person you are destined to become is the person you decide to be.”
Ralph Waldo Emerson

Re: Mouse Navigation with NVDA - Do you use it? Do you like it?

Gene NZ <hurrikennyandopo@...>
 

Hi Ollie

You can get to the golden cursor through the add on manager in NVDA. Just locate the button that says get add ons and when the browser opens it should be in that list of add ons. if not i think it can also be found on add ons under development.

All the commands are there to use it, but when you go to read the documentation, I think it needs comas so nvda slows between commands, unless I had that part turned off in NVDA.


Gene nz

On 10-Mar-16 7:29 AM, Mallard wrote:

I read something about thie Golden Cursor, but I have no clue as to where it can be found.
Any ideas or links, please? I'd be interested...
Ciao,
Ollie




Il 09/03/2016 17:36, Aravind R ha scritto:
one add on called golden cursor helps us to navigate mouse using
keyboard by typing pixal positions.
but, we have to experiment the various pixal coordinate positions and learn

On 3/9/16, Mallard <mallard@...> wrote:
Hello Brian,

I use a mouse from time to time. I have been using an Optacon since 1977
(I still use it daily, especially for multilanguage book reading), so
using a physical mouse isn't all that complicated for me.
Being used to exploring physical, printed pages, certainly represents a
significant advantage in mouse use.

My main difficulty is dealing with the boundaries of the mouse pad...

Ciao,
Ollie




Il 09/03/2016 16:15, Brian Vogel ha scritto:
The subject pretty much says it all. One of the most interesting
features of NVDA from this sighted guy's perspective is mouse
tracking, which announces what's under the mouse pointer, used in
conjunction with the NVDA left and right click keystrokes (or the
actual left and right click buttons on a mouse or mousepad).

By moving the mouse around the screen you get an experience that
strikes me as far more like what someone who can see gets when they're
scanning a webpage quickly to see if there's anything that interests
them. Of course, it takes some getting used to, and you'll probably
have to do some adjustments on mouse behavior (speed and distance of
movement, coasting, and others) to get mouse movement that's
comfortable for you.

I'm just curious as to who may be using this method to cruise around
the screen, and for any program, not just web browsers, and what your
experience was like learning how to use this feature and these
methods. I realize that there are certain applications and contexts
where this would be way more trouble than it's worth, too, and
opinions on where it's worth using and not would be interesting.

My gut tells me that it will be a small cadre that uses this feature
set, but I'm trying to decide whether it's something worth trying to
teach up front or not. There's nothing like asking those who do use
it, or have tried to use it, as a functional navigation alternative to
help shape my thoughts on this.

Brian




Re: Firefox is driving me crazy!

Gene
 

I don't recall your original message.  It is not included in the quoted material in this thread.  I don't use a Braille display and I don't know to what extent they are used with screen-readers or independently.  If I missed information you wrote, I'm sorry.  but since you have older versions of NVDA, the first thing I would do, if you can use speech is to try using NVDA with speech with the Braille display completely off or disconnected.  Unless you have done this, it appears to me that the Braille display hasn't been ruled out as the possible problem.  I'm not saying it is or isn't.  I'm saying that unless you have done something like this, we may not know.
 
Gene----- Original Message -----
----- Original Message -----

From: Mallard
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2016 12:22 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox is driving me crazy!

Gene,

Gosh! I wrote very clearly that I usethe latest Next with Firefox 45.0,
with BOTH a braille display and speech.

I have NO OTHER screen reader, except for older versions of NVDA, which
produce EXACTLY the same result.
ON ALL WEB PAGES.






Il 09/03/2016 19:14, Gene ha scritto:
> The problem appears to be some sort of mismatch between, evidently,
> the browse cursor and the link being clicked on.  We don't know what
> is being used as the Braille display.  We don't know if the person has
> or can test this with speech.  We don't know if the person has or can
> test this problem with another screen-reader.  There are many basic
> facts we need to know before proposing that time and effort be spent
> in trying various possible solutions.
> Gene
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Brian Vogel <mailto:britechguy@...>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 09, 2016 10:14 AM
> *To:* nvda@groups.io <mailto:nvda@groups.io>
> *Subject:* [nvda] Re: Firefox is driving me crazy!
>
> Ollie,
>
>            This is a pure SWAG on my part, but I've encountered so
> many bizarre problems caused by cache corruption that the first thing
> I'd recommend is that you clear all browser cache in Firefox.  If you
> use CCleaner it will work (and a bit faster) or you can follow the
> instructions on the Firefox Clear Cache
> <https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/how-clear-firefox-cache?redirectlocale=en-US&redirectslug=How+to+clear+the+cache>
> page.
>
>            Try that and see if it resolves the problem.  If it doesn't
> at least we can eliminate cache corruption as the root cause.
>
> Brian
>
>



A curiousity: is nv speech player available for the Italian language?

Angela Delicata
 

Hi,
I was trying a synth called nv speech player, but it is in English only: is there an Italian version also?
It sounds a bit like Eloquence.

Thank you.
Angela from Italy

Re: Mouse Navigation with NVDA - Do you use it? Do you like it?

Gene
 

Yes, you won't see them if you are not taught to work with the web page and rely on artificial structures.  I very strongly believe that teaching the Internet well is done by teaching how to work directly with web pages and not with artificial structures such as links lists.  Blind people should know that you can tab or use commands provided by screen-readers, to move from link to link.  They should also know that you often have to use the arrow keys to see if there is text or other controls between links.  It depends on context.  But using the mouse is not the answer.  Learning to browse effectively as a blind person is the answer to effective web page navigation. 
 
Blind people generally have a lot of problems browsing web pages because they don't know how to use existing methods effectively.
 
I work with a recording program where the time elapsed in a playing file can be seen using the NVDA screen review commands.  Using a mouse may provide the same access, I haven't used the feature you are discussing so I don't know.  But that is an example, the content is not accessible by using standard methods such as the arrow keys, to find and read it where other techniques are necessary.  I am not convinced that the NVDA screen review commands don't give as good or better access in terms of efficiency to such content in many cases.  There are times when moving a physical mouse using the feature you are discussing may provide the ability to do something.  But it would be important to hear specific examples from people and to know whether those people know and use the commands provided by NVDA as well.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Gene
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2016 11:32 AM
Subject: [nvda] Re: Mouse Navigation with NVDA - Do you use it? Do you like it?

Rosemarie,

          Believe me, I know that using the mouse without being able to see it is hard.  It is, however, within screen readers that support it a very easy way to give a quick listen to what's on the screen that you might never see if you're doing things like listing all links and traversing the list or all headers and traversing that list, etc.  I've also found it interesting that on most sites there are hidden links specifically for those using accessibility software that the rest of the world never sees.

           I'm not so much interested (though I am interested, don't get me wrong) in whether someone uses the mouse as a pointing and activating device so much as whether they use it to get a sense of what might be on a screen just by running it around.

           It's also nice that at least some laptops allow you to configure the mouse such that it will not go outside the physical screen boundary.  That's under the "Momentum" settings for my Synaptics touch pad under "Enable bounce off screen edge".  While that would drive me crazy, as I often want the mouse to disappear, it would be incredibly useful for someone doing screen review via mouse movement.  This may be possible with certain mice on desktop machines, too, but I've never had one with that configuration option in that hardware environment.

           It was also interesting for me to see what I consider the weird difference in accessibility in PDF-XChange Viewer when using the conventional menu keyboard shortcuts and arrow key traversal, which gives you no feedback at all, but when you hover over the same menus with the mouse and draw the mouse pointer down the menu, each and every thing, including the menu title, is announced (this is all with NVDA 2016.1).  Why that would be is a mystery, since if there were nothing that NVDA could access somehow for announcing things then there should be no accessibility feedback in either method.

Brian

Re: Firefox is driving me crazy!

Mallard
 

Yes Patrick,
I do use K and Shift+K too, but it happens anyway...

I've even tried bringing the mouse to focus, and double-clicking with the left mouse button on the numpad... The best that happens is that I have to click or press enter twice on a link to activate it, the worst is that something completely diffrent opens.

It started midway through the life of FF44, and it's still here in 45...
Ciao,
Ollie

Il 09/03/2016 17:24, Patrick Le Baudour ha scritto:
Hello,

One thing to be careful of is to make sure nvda only has a link in focus - I usually use k and shift-k to do that. When there is, for example, a bullet then a link, then it may open something altogether. I've been had by that several times those last weeks.

-- Patrick


Le 09/03/2016 17:01, Mallard a écrit :
Hello list,
For a week or so now, Firefox is driving me crazy.

When I click on a link on a webpage, for some reason I end up clicking
on something different from the one I had under my fingers on my braille
display or that is read by the synth.

Today I even upgraded to Firefox 45.0 to see whether the problem could
be solved, but no... Still the same.

I'm using the latest Next snapshot of NVDA, but the same thing happens
with an older version of NVDA (2015.2), so I think it might be something
in Firefox.

Has anyone experienced someghing similar?

Ciao,
Ollie




Re: Mouse Navigation with NVDA - Do you use it? Do you like it?

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

Hi, Gene,

The keyboard is sufficient enough for me since I don't do tasks that require the use of a physical mouse.

Rosemarie

-----Original Message-----
From: Gene [mailto:gsasner@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2016 10:27 AM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Mouse Navigation with NVDA - Do you use it? Do you like it?

Having an experience that is more like a sighted person's experience may or may not be useful, depending on context. The entire reason the virtual cursor, or browse mode, was developed for blind users is because using the mouse in the context of a web page and the screen layout of a typical web page is less efficient. Nothing can replace the efficiency of using commands such as the skip blocks of links commands, the move by headings command and the find command. Nothing can replace the ease of moving as though a cursor is being used.

There may be contexts where moving with the mouse provides access to more information or to more meaningful information. But using a web page to discuss possible uses is a bad example in most cases.

As to whether to teach this feature, there may not be a general rule. Many users may never need or benefit from it. Then again, people who use a computer differently or for different purposes may.

Someone wanting to use a computer for browsing, e-mail, editing documents, and other common purposes might not benefit at all. Accessibility is usually very good for such tasks in much more efficient ways. Someone using a computer to work with programs and screens that are not ordinarily well available, might benefit significantly.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Patrick Le Baudour <mailto:p.lebaudour@...>
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2016 11:23 AM
To: nvda@groups.io <mailto:nvda@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Mouse Navigation with NVDA - Do you use it? Do you like it?

Hi,

I only use it when I have to, with some websites and programs accessible
only with the mouse.
I find it difficult not to be lost and finding a specific item on a big
screen, ( I assume it's much easier on a smartphone where you know
where you are and usually have a tidier screen content).

-- Patrick

Le 09/03/2016 16:15, Brian Vogel a écrit :
The subject pretty much says it all. One of the most interesting
features of NVDA from this sighted guy's perspective is mouse tracking,
which announces what's under the mouse pointer, used in conjunction with
the NVDA left and right click keystrokes (or the actual left and right
click buttons on a mouse or mousepad).

By moving the mouse around the screen you get an experience that strikes
me as far more like what someone who can see gets when they're scanning
a webpage quickly to see if there's anything that interests them. Of
course, it takes some getting used to, and you'll probably have to do
some adjustments on mouse behavior (speed and distance of movement,
coasting, and others) to get mouse movement that's comfortable for you.

I'm just curious as to who may be using this method to cruise around the
screen, and for any program, not just web browsers, and what your
experience was like learning how to use this feature and these methods.
I realize that there are certain applications and contexts where this
would be way more trouble than it's worth, too, and opinions on where
it's worth using and not would be interesting.

My gut tells me that it will be a small cadre that uses this feature
set, but I'm trying to decide whether it's something worth trying to
teach up front or not. There's nothing like asking those who do use it,
or have tried to use it, as a functional navigation alternative to help
shape my thoughts on this.

Brian