Indeed, it’s mainly a right  handed thing. Left hand doesn’t go anywhere.

Different strokes for different folks. Some may find one way to be more or less efficient. I’m not going to say that having to use the numpad or arrow keys is bad. I just find it that the less I have to move my right hand around the keyboard throughout the day, the less disruptive I find it to be.

Seeing as how NVDA doesn’t really have all that many alphanumeric keyboard commands, I find it odd that there really isn’t much beyond capslock+L so you can keep both hands on the keyboard. Anyway, and so it goes…

 

Cristóbal

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2019 1:04 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

In my case I never move my left hand when using capslock. But my fingers are very very long so I can do that.

Take care

On 21 Jan 2019, at 12:45, Gene wrote:

I think its because you are used to that method.  I very much doubt that for a regular numpad user, there is any loss of efficiency.  And if you use caps lock, you are still moving your left hand away from the home keys.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Cristóbal

Sent: Monday, January 21, 2019 12:06 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

With Jaws, I always enable the laptop keyboard layout, be it for my desktops or laptops. Indeed, I do use the numpad and arrow keys for commands, but having the ability to use the same navigational commands on the main keyboard itself as well proves to be a huge efficiency booster and time saver.

I.E. commands such as capslock+N, comma or period for previous character, current character, next character. Capslock+ J, K or L for previous word, current word and next word. Capslock+ U, I or O for previous line, current line and next line. Same for paragraph and sentence, etc.

Again, it’s not that switching back and forth between the main keyboard to either the arrow keys or numpad is especially burdensome, but depending on what you may be doing multiplied by hundreds of times in a day, thee navigational commands via the laptop keyboard layout just feels like a more efficient process of getting things done.

The only command I came across for anything similar with NVDA is the capslock+L command for say current line. It doesn’t seem like there are too many NVDA keystroke commands that make use of the capslock+ the letters on the keyboard. Thus my query if I was in fact missing something and there were in fact keystroke commands beyond this one command or an add-on that expanded on this capability.

So yes, I am well aware of all the various numpad navigational commands as well as using the four arrow keys, but my question was on whether these same commands could also be replicated via the main keyboard. Just use the numpad or arrow keys really doesn’t address my question. If there is in fact not a current means of doing this either through a built in function in NVDA itself or through an add-on, then that would also be good to know.

 

Cristóbal

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 10:38 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

Are you saying you want to use movement commands where you use keyboard commands for movement in JAWS that duplicate the numpad movement commands in desktop layout?  NVDA doesn't have such commands.  The numpad isn't used for that purpose in the desktop layout and such commands aren't duplicated on the laptop.  If that is what you are saying, I think that if you got used to it and gave it time, you would find movement with the keyboard commands such as control plus arrow keys to be as efficient.  Its muscle memory, as you said.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Cristóbal

Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 9:46 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

I’ve been using Jaws going on 18 years now.

I am aware of the various Jaws screen reader and windows numpad keystroke commands.

My query was on commands for navigating via the keyboard in a laptop mode. As I mentioned going back and forth between the keyboard and the numpad/arrow keys for me at least takes away from the efficiency as opposed to with Jaws where you can do navigate by character, word, line or paragraph without ever having to take your hands away from the main keyboard itself. It’s not that going back and forth between the main keyboard and numpad or arrow keys is that big a deal, but do it hundreds of times throughout the day and in the aggregate  can quickly become noticeable and tedious.

Thus my question on whether there were NVDA commands and or an add-on beyond the capslock+L for read current line that also allowed for further navigation without having to use the numpad and even the arrow keys.

 

Cristóbal

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 4:45 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

I should say, on seeing further discussion, that I'm not sure what you mean by jump by word.  As has been said, control down arrow moves down by paragraph and you can use all the standard movement commands.  They are not screen-reader commands.  If someone only taught you the numpad command movement commands in JAWS or the laptop alternative numpad movement commands, that's negligence.  In any screen-reader, or even if you weren't using one, you can use all these commands.  Right arrow, move one character right.  Left arrow, move one character left.  Up arrow, move up one line.  Down arrow, move down one line.  Down by paragraph, control down arrow. 

Up by paragraph, control up arrow.

 

I'm not sure if those are the kinds of commands you want to know but I suspect you were only taught the JAWS numpad or the JAWS laptop movement commands and not the Windows commands and that is incompetent teaching beyond belief, if that is what was done.

 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene via Groups.Io

Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 5:51 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

I don't use the laptop layout in NVDA.  I wouldn't even if I had a laptop without a numpad.  I much prefer the desktop layout.  I haven't looked at the laptop commands much but they don't seem consistent to me in terms of following patterns nearly as much as the desktop layout does.  If you are looking at commands using something like the commands reference and you are using the laptop commands, those are the ones to use.  If you want to get a USB numpad and use the desktop layout, I don't know if you would like the structure more but I prefer it a great deal more.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Cristóbal

Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 5:19 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

Hello list,

So I am mainly a Jaws user, but have been trying to make the effort to use NVDA more or at least become more proficient with it. The one issue I continue to have with NVDA and just can’t get used to is the keyboard navigation. I know it in part has to do with simple muscle memory with Jaws commands, but outside of the NVDA key (caps lock) plus L command to read the current line, I just cannot get used to not being able to jump around via paragraph or line or word, etc., like in Jaws laptop keyboard layout. Am I just missing something and am not aware of other keyboard navigational keystroke commands in NVDA or is there perhaps an add-on I can install?

Yes, I know there are all the numpad commands, but with Jaws at least, being able to keep one’s hands on the keyboard instead of having to switch back and forth adds up and makes a difference and comfort. And to be clear, I’m not looking for a Jaws clone and am aware that they’re two different products. I’m completely open to this different approach, but this navigational thing is for me anyway proving to be the one major stumbling bock to try to use it more.

I would appreciate any enlightenment.

Thanks,

Cristóbal

 

I think its because you are used to that method.  I very much doubt that for a regular numpad user, there is any loss of efficiency.  And if you use caps lock, you are still moving your left hand away from the home keys.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Cristóbal

Sent: Monday, January 21, 2019 12:06 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

With Jaws, I always enable the laptop keyboard layout, be it for my desktops or laptops. Indeed, I do use the numpad and arrow keys for commands, but having the ability to use the same navigational commands on the main keyboard itself as well proves to be a huge efficiency booster and time saver.

I.E. commands such as capslock+N, comma or period for previous character, current character, next character. Capslock+ J, K or L for previous word, current word and next word. Capslock+ U, I or O for previous line, current line and next line. Same for paragraph and sentence, etc.

Again, it’s not that switching back and forth between the main keyboard to either the arrow keys or numpad is especially burdensome, but depending on what you may be doing multiplied by hundreds of times in a day, thee navigational commands via the laptop keyboard layout just feels like a more efficient process of getting things done.

The only command I came across for anything similar with NVDA is the capslock+L command for say current line. It doesn’t seem like there are too many NVDA keystroke commands that make use of the capslock+ the letters on the keyboard. Thus my query if I was in fact missing something and there were in fact keystroke commands beyond this one command or an add-on that expanded on this capability.

So yes, I am well aware of all the various numpad navigational commands as well as using the four arrow keys, but my question was on whether these same commands could also be replicated via the main keyboard. Just use the numpad or arrow keys really doesn’t address my question. If there is in fact not a current means of doing this either through a built in function in NVDA itself or through an add-on, then that would also be good to know.

 

Cristóbal

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 10:38 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

Are you saying you want to use movement commands where you use keyboard commands for movement in JAWS that duplicate the numpad movement commands in desktop layout?  NVDA doesn't have such commands.  The numpad isn't used for that purpose in the desktop layout and such commands aren't duplicated on the laptop.  If that is what you are saying, I think that if you got used to it and gave it time, you would find movement with the keyboard commands such as control plus arrow keys to be as efficient.  Its muscle memory, as you said.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Cristóbal

Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 9:46 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

I’ve been using Jaws going on 18 years now.

I am aware of the various Jaws screen reader and windows numpad keystroke commands.

My query was on commands for navigating via the keyboard in a laptop mode. As I mentioned going back and forth between the keyboard and the numpad/arrow keys for me at least takes away from the efficiency as opposed to with Jaws where you can do navigate by character, word, line or paragraph without ever having to take your hands away from the main keyboard itself. It’s not that going back and forth between the main keyboard and numpad or arrow keys is that big a deal, but do it hundreds of times throughout the day and in the aggregate  can quickly become noticeable and tedious.

Thus my question on whether there were NVDA commands and or an add-on beyond the capslock+L for read current line that also allowed for further navigation without having to use the numpad and even the arrow keys.

 

Cristóbal

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 4:45 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

I should say, on seeing further discussion, that I'm not sure what you mean by jump by word.  As has been said, control down arrow moves down by paragraph and you can use all the standard movement commands.  They are not screen-reader commands.  If someone only taught you the numpad command movement commands in JAWS or the laptop alternative numpad movement commands, that's negligence.  In any screen-reader, or even if you weren't using one, you can use all these commands.  Right arrow, move one character right.  Left arrow, move one character left.  Up arrow, move up one line.  Down arrow, move down one line.  Down by paragraph, control down arrow. 

Up by paragraph, control up arrow.

 

I'm not sure if those are the kinds of commands you want to know but I suspect you were only taught the JAWS numpad or the JAWS laptop movement commands and not the Windows commands and that is incompetent teaching beyond belief, if that is what was done.

 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene via Groups.Io

Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 5:51 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

I don't use the laptop layout in NVDA.  I wouldn't even if I had a laptop without a numpad.  I much prefer the desktop layout.  I haven't looked at the laptop commands much but they don't seem consistent to me in terms of following patterns nearly as much as the desktop layout does.  If you are looking at commands using something like the commands reference and you are using the laptop commands, those are the ones to use.  If you want to get a USB numpad and use the desktop layout, I don't know if you would like the structure more but I prefer it a great deal more.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Cristóbal

Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 5:19 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

Hello list,

So I am mainly a Jaws user, but have been trying to make the effort to use NVDA more or at least become more proficient with it. The one issue I continue to have with NVDA and just can’t get used to is the keyboard navigation. I know it in part has to do with simple muscle memory with Jaws commands, but outside of the NVDA key (caps lock) plus L command to read the current line, I just cannot get used to not being able to jump around via paragraph or line or word, etc., like in Jaws laptop keyboard layout. Am I just missing something and am not aware of other keyboard navigational keystroke commands in NVDA or is there perhaps an add-on I can install?

Yes, I know there are all the numpad commands, but with Jaws at least, being able to keep one’s hands on the keyboard instead of having to switch back and forth adds up and makes a difference and comfort. And to be clear, I’m not looking for a Jaws clone and am aware that they’re two different products. I’m completely open to this different approach, but this navigational thing is for me anyway proving to be the one major stumbling bock to try to use it more.

I would appreciate any enlightenment.

Thanks,

Cristóbal

 

Speaking of keyboard commands:

I'm having trouble getting the current character phonetically.  Using the laptop keyboard layout, NVDA plus period says the character and a second time says it phonetically.  But usually, it reads a character that is not where the insertion point is.  Also would like to be able to read, spell, and spell phonetically, the current word.  Can't seem to make it happen.

On 1/21/2019 6:14 AM, Daniel Damacena wrote:

In the past I was able to use laptop layout when it was necessary. Today, my notebook has the keys needed to use desktop layout, so I use it, but I do not think that the laptop layout is confused or something like that.

 

Anyway, I prefer to use a usb keyboard because it is a lot more comfortable.

Daniel Damacena Bezerra

 

De: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Em nome de Gene
Enviada em: domingo, 20 de janeiro de 2019 20:51
Para: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Assunto: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

I don't use the laptop layout in NVDA.  I wouldn't even if I had a laptop without a numpad.  I much prefer the desktop layout.  I haven't looked at the laptop commands much but they don't seem consistent to me in terms of following patterns nearly as much as the desktop layout does.  If you are looking at commands using something like the commands reference and you are using the laptop commands, those are the ones to use.  If you want to get a USB numpad and use the desktop layout, I don't know if you would like the structure more but I prefer it a great deal more.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Cristóbal

Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 5:19 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

Hello list,

So I am mainly a Jaws user, but have been trying to make the effort to use NVDA more or at least become more proficient with it. The one issue I continue to have with NVDA and just can’t get used to is the keyboard navigation. I know it in part has to do with simple muscle memory with Jaws commands, but outside of the NVDA key (caps lock) plus L command to read the current line, I just cannot get used to not being able to jump around via paragraph or line or word, etc., like in Jaws laptop keyboard layout. Am I just missing something and am not aware of other keyboard navigational keystroke commands in NVDA or is there perhaps an add-on I can install?

Yes, I know there are all the numpad commands, but with Jaws at least, being able to keep one’s hands on the keyboard instead of having to switch back and forth adds up and makes a difference and comfort. And to be clear, I’m not looking for a Jaws clone and am aware that they’re two different products. I’m completely open to this different approach, but this navigational thing is for me anyway proving to be the one major stumbling bock to try to use it more.

I would appreciate any enlightenment.

Thanks,

Cristóbal

 

I’ve been using Jaws going on 18 years now.

I am aware of the various Jaws screen reader and windows numpad keystroke commands.

My query was on commands for navigating via the keyboard in a laptop mode. As I mentioned going back and forth between the keyboard and the numpad/arrow keys for me at least takes away from the efficiency as opposed to with Jaws where you can do navigate by character, word, line or paragraph without ever having to take your hands away from the main keyboard itself. It’s not that going back and forth between the main keyboard and numpad or arrow keys is that big a deal, but do it hundreds of times throughout the day and in the aggregate  can quickly become noticeable and tedious.

Thus my question on whether there were NVDA commands and or an add-on beyond the capslock+L for read current line that also allowed for further navigation without having to use the numpad and even the arrow keys.

Hello list,

So I am mainly a Jaws user, but have been trying to make the effort to use NVDA more or at least become more proficient with it. The one issue I continue to have with NVDA and just can’t get used to is the keyboard navigation. I know it in part has to do with simple muscle memory with Jaws commands, but outside of the NVDA key (caps lock) plus L command to read the current line, I just cannot get used to not being able to jump around via paragraph or line or word, etc., like in Jaws laptop keyboard layout. Am I just missing something and am not aware of other keyboard navigational keystroke commands in NVDA or is there perhaps an add-on I can install?

Yes, I know there are all the numpad commands, but with Jaws at least, being able to keep one’s hands on the keyboard instead of having to switch back and forth adds up and makes a difference and comfort. And to be clear, I’m not looking for a Jaws clone and am aware that they’re two different products. I’m completely open to this different approach, but this navigational thing is for me anyway proving to be the one major stumbling bock to try to use it more.

I would appreciate any enlightenment.

Thanks,

Cristóbal

Hi bhavya,

I my self haven't used docs extensively, so can't comment on your findings. However, my suggestion to you is to post this on accessible, the official google group from google for discussing the accessibility of the different google products I think, and see whether you will get an answer which helps, at-least hopefully your experience will reach the rite people at google. You can find more about this group in the link:

https://groups.google.com/forum/?nomobile=true#!forum/accessible

Hope you the best

On Mon, 21 Jan 2019 at 12:29 Bhavya shah <bhavya.shah125@...> wrote:

Dear all,

I will now be required, for certain essential activities, be required
to extensively use Google Docs and in extension Google Drive for the
next several months to collaborate on documents. Given this, it is
imperative that I get well acquainted to Drive and Docs. However, that
is precisely what I am struggling with.

* I began reading AFB's NVDA specific tutorials on Google Drive and
Docs, but my experience with Drive is not exactly corresponding to
what has been instructed.
* This includes things like NVDA being very latent in the tree view
item on Google Drive, at random instances simply getting stuck in a
control which has nothing in it until I Tab out of it, all of which is
preventing me from even managing to go inside a folder and view its
files, let alone open a document and edit it.
* Due to these issues, I am currently relying on direct URLs to files
and documents to access them and subsequently work on and contribute
to them. Another alternative approach I have tried to adopt is to add
this particular shared folder to my own Drive, such that I can access
it on Windows Explorer on my PC itself. In this scenario, there are a
number of important files that are missing from the folder on my
computer which I have had confirmed with my collaborators. Backup and
Sync from Google on my computer contradictorily claims that everything
has been updated.

I am unclear on how to resolve NVDA's laggy behaviour on Google Drive
on the web or instead be able to get all the files in the shared
folder as they are newly created and updated on my computer. I would
greatly appreciate any ideas or suggestions on a more elegant means of
using Google Drive and Docs. Things I intend to try for now are
confined to switching from Firefox to Chrome in hopes that an
alternate web browser may provide better support for NVDA with
Google's web apps.

Thanks.

P.S. I did press Ctrl+Alt+Z to enable screen reader support in Docs,
and switched views in Drive from grid to list.

--
Best Regards
Bhavya Shah

Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/

Contacting Me
E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@...
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bhavyashah125/
Twitter: @BhavyaShah125
Skype: bhavya.09

Hi all,

I frequently have issues with NVDA not reading from cursor to end of a document.� I press NVDA key plus down arrow and only one line is read. How can I get it to continue reading?� I believe this use to work.� But maybe I�m mistaken.

Thanks for any guidance.

�

I could not get on with the new version of docs and drive either.
Indeed since I don't need it I gave up.
Somebody here may well be a whizz kiid on this, but on Windows 7 I got nowhere with the shark or nvda, other than locking up the pc at regular intervals.
This is why I have reservations about these kind of cloud based systems to edit documents. In theory its great... but Google seem unable to leave stuff alone for more than a month or so.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Bhavya shah" <bhavya.shah125@...>
To: "nvda" <nvda@groups.io>
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2019 10:29 AM
Subject: [nvda] Urgent Help With Accessing Google Drive and Docs

Dear all,

I will now be required, for certain essential activities, be required
to extensively use Google Docs and in extension Google Drive for the
next several months to collaborate on documents. Given this, it is
imperative that I get well acquainted to Drive and Docs. However, that
is precisely what I am struggling with.

* I began reading AFB's NVDA specific tutorials on Google Drive and
Docs, but my experience with Drive is not exactly corresponding to
what has been instructed.
* This includes things like NVDA being very latent in the tree view
item on Google Drive, at random instances simply getting stuck in a
control which has nothing in it until I Tab out of it, all of which is
preventing me from even managing to go inside a folder and view its
files, let alone open a document and edit it.
* Due to these issues, I am currently relying on direct URLs to files
and documents to access them and subsequently work on and contribute
to them. Another alternative approach I have tried to adopt is to add
this particular shared folder to my own Drive, such that I can access
it on Windows Explorer on my PC itself. In this scenario, there are a
number of important files that are missing from the folder on my
computer which I have had confirmed with my collaborators. Backup and
Sync from Google on my computer contradictorily claims that everything
has been updated.

I am unclear on how to resolve NVDA's laggy behaviour on Google Drive
on the web or instead be able to get all the files in the shared
folder as they are newly created and updated on my computer. I would
greatly appreciate any ideas or suggestions on a more elegant means of
using Google Drive and Docs. Things I intend to try for now are
confined to switching from Firefox to Chrome in hopes that an
alternate web browser may provide better support for NVDA with
Google's web apps.

Thanks.

P.S. I did press Ctrl+Alt+Z to enable screen reader support in Docs,
and switched views in Drive from grid to list.

--
Best Regards
Bhavya Shah

Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/

Contacting Me
E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@...
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bhavyashah125/
Twitter: @BhavyaShah125
Skype: bhavya.09

really?
do you mean that i can read free epub books with my firefox?
can someone send me the example link?

On 1/21/19, Travis Siegel <tsiegel@softcon.com> wrote:

If your epub books are DRM free, reading them is as easy as unzipping
them, and loading them into your favorite web browser. This is how I
read all of my epub books.  Then again, I refuse to pay for DRM
encrypted books if I can help it, so your mileage may vary.

On 1/21/2019 9:03 AM, Josh Kennedy wrote:

I think I will probably just reset the computer and wipe out
everything. But is there a good alternative to adobe digital editions
for reading epub books? or is there an adobe digital editions without
the  norton security junk?

If your epub books are DRM free, reading them is as easy as unzipping
them, and loading them into your favorite web browser. This is how I
read all of my epub books.  Then again, I refuse to pay for DRM
encrypted books if I can help it, so your mileage may vary.

On 1/21/2019 9:03 AM, Josh Kennedy wrote:

I think I will probably just reset the computer and wipe out
everything. But is there a good alternative to adobe digital editions
for reading epub books? or is there an adobe digital editions without
the  norton security junk?