Date   

Re: NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

Cristóbal
 

Alas. Again, not that I’m looking for a Jaws clone, but I find it odd that if this isn’t something that’s more laid out from within NVDA itself that someone hasn’t come up with some sort of add-on to provide this sort of functionality since NVDA does seem to not have that many keyboard commands that occupy many of these types of keystrokes.

I know links to some add-ons were provided, but even then, those keystrokes required using the arrow keys.

Being able to keep both hands (especially the right one) on the alphanumeric keyboard as much as possible really does help.

 

Cristóbal

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of marcio via Groups.Io
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2019 2:48 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

Well, I don't know if you can go back.
That's an interesting point, though. Wondering whether when we choose to get back NVDA to default settings, that also would affect hotkeys that we've changed.


Cheers,
Marcio
Follow me on Twitter

Em 21/01/2019 20:23, Sarah k Alawami escreveu:

Not reassign. I'd rather add the keystrokes as alternatives, but I guess reassign would be a better word for now, as long as you can go back to default in case you mess up.

On 21 Jan 2019, at 14:02, marcio via Groups.Io wrote:

I guess you can do it through the input settings, guess that's the name of it.
Anyway, it's something having to do with lots of functions in a list where you can reassign its hotkeys.


Cheers,
Marcio
Follow me on Twitter

Em 21/01/2019 19:46, Sarah k Alawami escreveu:

I wonder if you can remap laptop keystrokes? If you can you could probably add nvda u i and o for next, current and prev line, and then j k and l for words and n m and cama for characters.

On 21 Jan 2019, at 13:21, Cristóbal wrote:

Indeed, it’s mainly a right  handed thing. Left hand doesn’t go anywhere.

Different strokes for different folks. Some may find one way to be more or less efficient. I’m not going to say that having to use the numpad or arrow keys is bad. I just find it that the less I have to move my right hand around the keyboard throughout the day, the less disruptive I find it to be.

Seeing as how NVDA doesn’t really have all that many alphanumeric keyboard commands, I find it odd that there really isn’t much beyond capslock+L so you can keep both hands on the keyboard. Anyway, and so it goes…

 

Cristóbal

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2019 1:04 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

In my case I never move my left hand when using capslock. But my fingers are very very long so I can do that.

Take care

On 21 Jan 2019, at 12:45, Gene wrote:

I think its because you are used to that method.  I very much doubt that for a regular numpad user, there is any loss of efficiency.  And if you use caps lock, you are still moving your left hand away from the home keys.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Cristóbal

Sent: Monday, January 21, 2019 12:06 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

With Jaws, I always enable the laptop keyboard layout, be it for my desktops or laptops. Indeed, I do use the numpad and arrow keys for commands, but having the ability to use the same navigational commands on the main keyboard itself as well proves to be a huge efficiency booster and time saver.

I.E. commands such as capslock+N, comma or period for previous character, current character, next character. Capslock+ J, K or L for previous word, current word and next word. Capslock+ U, I or O for previous line, current line and next line. Same for paragraph and sentence, etc.

Again, it’s not that switching back and forth between the main keyboard to either the arrow keys or numpad is especially burdensome, but depending on what you may be doing multiplied by hundreds of times in a day, thee navigational commands via the laptop keyboard layout just feels like a more efficient process of getting things done.

The only command I came across for anything similar with NVDA is the capslock+L command for say current line. It doesn’t seem like there are too many NVDA keystroke commands that make use of the capslock+ the letters on the keyboard. Thus my query if I was in fact missing something and there were in fact keystroke commands beyond this one command or an add-on that expanded on this capability.

So yes, I am well aware of all the various numpad navigational commands as well as using the four arrow keys, but my question was on whether these same commands could also be replicated via the main keyboard. Just use the numpad or arrow keys really doesn’t address my question. If there is in fact not a current means of doing this either through a built in function in NVDA itself or through an add-on, then that would also be good to know.

 

Cristóbal

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 10:38 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

Are you saying you want to use movement commands where you use keyboard commands for movement in JAWS that duplicate the numpad movement commands in desktop layout?  NVDA doesn't have such commands.  The numpad isn't used for that purpose in the desktop layout and such commands aren't duplicated on the laptop.  If that is what you are saying, I think that if you got used to it and gave it time, you would find movement with the keyboard commands such as control plus arrow keys to be as efficient.  Its muscle memory, as you said.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Cristóbal

Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 9:46 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

I’ve been using Jaws going on 18 years now.

I am aware of the various Jaws screen reader and windows numpad keystroke commands.

My query was on commands for navigating via the keyboard in a laptop mode. As I mentioned going back and forth between the keyboard and the numpad/arrow keys for me at least takes away from the efficiency as opposed to with Jaws where you can do navigate by character, word, line or paragraph without ever having to take your hands away from the main keyboard itself. It’s not that going back and forth between the main keyboard and numpad or arrow keys is that big a deal, but do it hundreds of times throughout the day and in the aggregate  can quickly become noticeable and tedious.

Thus my question on whether there were NVDA commands and or an add-on beyond the capslock+L for read current line that also allowed for further navigation without having to use the numpad and even the arrow keys.

 

Cristóbal

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 4:45 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

I should say, on seeing further discussion, that I'm not sure what you mean by jump by word.  As has been said, control down arrow moves down by paragraph and you can use all the standard movement commands.  They are not screen-reader commands.  If someone only taught you the numpad command movement commands in JAWS or the laptop alternative numpad movement commands, that's negligence.  In any screen-reader, or even if you weren't using one, you can use all these commands.  Right arrow, move one character right.  Left arrow, move one character left.  Up arrow, move up one line.  Down arrow, move down one line.  Down by paragraph, control down arrow. 

Up by paragraph, control up arrow.

 

I'm not sure if those are the kinds of commands you want to know but I suspect you were only taught the JAWS numpad or the JAWS laptop movement commands and not the Windows commands and that is incompetent teaching beyond belief, if that is what was done.

 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 5:51 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

I don't use the laptop layout in NVDA.  I wouldn't even if I had a laptop without a numpad.  I much prefer the desktop layout.  I haven't looked at the laptop commands much but they don't seem consistent to me in terms of following patterns nearly as much as the desktop layout does.  If you are looking at commands using something like the commands reference and you are using the laptop commands, those are the ones to use.  If you want to get a USB numpad and use the desktop layout, I don't know if you would like the structure more but I prefer it a great deal more.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Cristóbal

Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 5:19 PM

Subject: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

Hello list,

So I am mainly a Jaws user, but have been trying to make the effort to use NVDA more or at least become more proficient with it. The one issue I continue to have with NVDA and just can’t get used to is the keyboard navigation. I know it in part has to do with simple muscle memory with Jaws commands, but outside of the NVDA key (caps lock) plus L command to read the current line, I just cannot get used to not being able to jump around via paragraph or line or word, etc., like in Jaws laptop keyboard layout. Am I just missing something and am not aware of other keyboard navigational keystroke commands in NVDA or is there perhaps an add-on I can install?

Yes, I know there are all the numpad commands, but with Jaws at least, being able to keep one’s hands on the keyboard instead of having to switch back and forth adds up and makes a difference and comfort. And to be clear, I’m not looking for a Jaws clone and am aware that they’re two different products. I’m completely open to this different approach, but this navigational thing is for me anyway proving to be the one major stumbling bock to try to use it more.

I would appreciate any enlightenment.

Thanks,

Cristóbal

 

 

 


Re: Special simvle

Quentin Christensen
 

If you want a symbol rather than an emoji, you can use Windows' charmap - press the windows key, type the word "charmap" and press ENTER.

You can use this dialog to find different characters.  The default simple view lets you pick a font, then arrow around it and find characters.  If you check the "advanced" checkbox, you can search for characters - for instance I searched in Arial for "bracket" and found just the square and curly brackets.  When it reads each character in the list, it reads something like: "U+005D: Right Square Bracket".  If you know te appropriate ASCII code, you can also type that in many places, by pressing alt and then a numerical sequence.  For some reason, that code is in hexadecimal (base 16) but you type the code in base 10 (alt+093 will give you a right square bracket).  Note that in order to type those codes, you need to use the number pad (with numlock on), not the number row.


Regards
Quentin.

On Tue, Jan 22, 2019 at 6:08 AM farhan israk <fahim.net.2014@...> wrote:

Thank you. I want to write square bracket which isn't available in keyboard.


On Mon, 21 Jan 2019, 2:28 pm Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io wrote:
Can you be a bit more specific on what you are trying to achieve in nvda?
 Are you wanting to allow nvda to read a special symbol or are you perhaps
asking on how to create a particular symbol in a document, this is a windows
query and may be more applicable on a windows list.
 Often this sort of thing depends on the language windows is set on and the
language the installed version  has loaded.
 Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "farhan israk" <fahim.net.2014@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2019 7:46 AM
Subject: [nvda] Special simvle


> How to insert special simble including [] in Windows 10 desktop computer?
>
>
>
>






--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Fast browse mode - request to test

Tony Malykh
 

Hello all,
I would like to ask volunteers of NVDA community to test fast browse mode in NVDA. Here is a link to alpha version with fast browse mode enabled:
https://github.com/mltony/nvda/releases/download/FastNVDA_alpha_2019_01_21/nvda_snapshot_source-fast_nvda-7c9d81a.exe

A little  background. NVDA has systematic problems with browse mode, such as:
* Rubber band effect - sometimes right after keystroke focus jumps back to the previous position in the document.
* Edit boxes and other form controls inside web pages sporadically entering forms mode, especially if pressing keystrokes quickly one after another.
* General sluggishness.
Fast browse mode aims to resolve all three of these issues. You can toggle between fast and traditional browse mode by pressing NVDA+8 (not numpad 8, but number row 8). Fast browse mode is enabled by default in this build. Traditional mode is the same as what you get in all official NVDA builds.

Three  questions I have for the testers:
1. Do you feel that fast browse mode is indeed faster than traditional browse mode? If so, in which websites/scenarios you see the most significant improvement?
2. If you have experienced any of the three browse mode problems mentioned above, can you still reproduce them with fast browse mode?
3. Are there any bugs with fast browse mode? If so, please provide as much information about these bugs as possible, such as: Steps to reproduce, Actual behavior, Expected behavior, System configuration, Windows version, Browser version, Website name, errors in NVDA output log if any.

Please send your feedback as a reply to this thread. Don't forget to restart your computer if you are installing this version before reporting bugs. Also, this is effectively an alpha version, which means that it will likely play a two-tone error sound whenever there's an exception - it doesn't necessarily mean there's a problem with fast browse mode.

For more information, here is NVDA bug (one of dozens, but this seems to be the main one):
https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/2039
Pull request:
https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/pull/9114

Best regards
Tony


Re: Emoji in Office 365

Quentin Christensen
 

Hi Christo,

Can you please advise the steps to reproduce this?

Which Office program?  Which emoji character?  If it's a document you have been sent, if you are able to forward it to info@..., I can have a look at the same file, otherwise, if it's one (or several) emojis, please advise how to select the appropriate one(s).

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 at 8:24 PM Christo de Klerk <christodeklerk@...> wrote:
Hello NVDA developers


A friend who is not on this list asked me to report that when using NVDA
with Office 365 emoji are not shown; instead the number 12 appears in
the text. This only happens in Office 365 and not in older versions of
Office. He says that the opposition Shark handles emoji perfectly in
365. Is this a know issue?


Kind regards


Christo







--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Re: RES: [nvda] how to advance slides with nvda

Gene
 

Then that isn't the problem. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2019 4:57 PM
Subject: Re: RES: [nvda] how to advance slides with nvda

Presentations in PowerPoint are always full screen.  I just checked and can't find a way to make them smaller. The whole point is that the presentation has the attention of the audience, rather than the program etc.

When editing a presentation, you can have PowerPoint windowed, like most other programs, but presenting (when you press F5 to start the presentation) is always full screen.

Regards

Quentin.

On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 at 10:33 PM Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
If this program is like other programs that have full screen mode, the way to turn it off is to press f11.  That is usually a toggle that turns full screen on and off.  Full screen has nothing to do with a program being maximized and I have never heard of an instance when having a program in full screen doesn't cause problems.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2019 3:49 AM
Subject: RES: [nvda] how to advance slides with nvda

Hi, I showed the screen for a sighted person and he said that the presentation was in the full screen mode.

In this mode the control buttons disappear.

I didn’t investigate more because I didn’t even know about this mode.

Any way I will do the test without add-ons.

 

 

Enviado do Email para Windows 10

 

De: Quentin Christensen
Enviado:segunda-feira, 21 de janeiro de 2019 01:00
Para: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Assunto: Re: [nvda] how to advance slides with nvda

 

Hi Alexandre,

 

I also can't reproduce this - with a slideshow running (in Office 365 rather than 2016) , I can change slides with Page up / Page down, space / backspace and enter, whether in the slide body or the notes (CONTROL+SHIFT+S).

 

Are you using any add-ons?  I can't think of any that should break viewing a slideshow, but it's always possible - press NVDA+Q as if to quit NVDA, then down arrow to restart with add-ons disabled to confirm it's not an add-on.

 

Otherwise, could you perhaps send me a copy of your log?

 

Regards

 

Quentin.

 

On Sun, Jan 20, 2019 at 11:53 PM Alexandre Alves Toco <alexandretoco@...> wrote:

Hi friends.

I opened a presentation in PowerPoint 2016 and pressed f5 to start the presentation.

I can read the first slide’s text with nvda and, if I press ctrl+shift+s I can read the nodes.

But how can I go to the next slide?

I tried to press pagedown, enter, spacebar and even press nvda key + f2 and pagedown. But it didn’t change slides.

 

 

Enviado do Email para Windows 10

 


 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 

 



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Re: RES: [nvda] how to advance slides with nvda

Quentin Christensen
 

Presentations in PowerPoint are always full screen.  I just checked and can't find a way to make them smaller. The whole point is that the presentation has the attention of the audience, rather than the program etc.

When editing a presentation, you can have PowerPoint windowed, like most other programs, but presenting (when you press F5 to start the presentation) is always full screen.

Regards

Quentin.

On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 at 10:33 PM Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
If this program is like other programs that have full screen mode, the way to turn it off is to press f11.  That is usually a toggle that turns full screen on and off.  Full screen has nothing to do with a program being maximized and I have never heard of an instance when having a program in full screen doesn't cause problems.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2019 3:49 AM
Subject: RES: [nvda] how to advance slides with nvda

Hi, I showed the screen for a sighted person and he said that the presentation was in the full screen mode.

In this mode the control buttons disappear.

I didn’t investigate more because I didn’t even know about this mode.

Any way I will do the test without add-ons.

 

 

Enviado do Email para Windows 10

 

De: Quentin Christensen
Enviado:segunda-feira, 21 de janeiro de 2019 01:00
Para: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Assunto: Re: [nvda] how to advance slides with nvda

 

Hi Alexandre,

 

I also can't reproduce this - with a slideshow running (in Office 365 rather than 2016) , I can change slides with Page up / Page down, space / backspace and enter, whether in the slide body or the notes (CONTROL+SHIFT+S).

 

Are you using any add-ons?  I can't think of any that should break viewing a slideshow, but it's always possible - press NVDA+Q as if to quit NVDA, then down arrow to restart with add-ons disabled to confirm it's not an add-on.

 

Otherwise, could you perhaps send me a copy of your log?

 

Regards

 

Quentin.

 

On Sun, Jan 20, 2019 at 11:53 PM Alexandre Alves Toco <alexandretoco@...> wrote:

Hi friends.

I opened a presentation in PowerPoint 2016 and pressed f5 to start the presentation.

I can read the first slide’s text with nvda and, if I press ctrl+shift+s I can read the nodes.

But how can I go to the next slide?

I tried to press pagedown, enter, spacebar and even press nvda key + f2 and pagedown. But it didn’t change slides.

 

 

Enviado do Email para Windows 10

 


 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 

 



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Re: NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

Well, I don't know if you can go back.
That's an interesting point, though. Wondering whether when we choose to get back NVDA to default settings, that also would affect hotkeys that we've changed.

Cheers,
Marcio
Follow me on Twitter

Em 21/01/2019 20:23, Sarah k Alawami escreveu:

Not reassign. I'd rather add the keystrokes as alternatives, but I guess reassign would be a better word for now, as long as you can go back to default in case you mess up.

On 21 Jan 2019, at 14:02, marcio via Groups.Io wrote:

I guess you can do it through the input settings, guess that's the name of it.
Anyway, it's something having to do with lots of functions in a list where you can reassign its hotkeys.

Cheers,
Marcio
Follow me on Twitter

Em 21/01/2019 19:46, Sarah k Alawami escreveu:

I wonder if you can remap laptop keystrokes? If you can you could probably add nvda u i and o for next, current and prev line, and then j k and l for words and n m and cama for characters.

On 21 Jan 2019, at 13:21, Cristóbal wrote:

Indeed, it’s mainly a right  handed thing. Left hand doesn’t go anywhere.

Different strokes for different folks. Some may find one way to be more or less efficient. I’m not going to say that having to use the numpad or arrow keys is bad. I just find it that the less I have to move my right hand around the keyboard throughout the day, the less disruptive I find it to be.

Seeing as how NVDA doesn’t really have all that many alphanumeric keyboard commands, I find it odd that there really isn’t much beyond capslock+L so you can keep both hands on the keyboard. Anyway, and so it goes…

 

Cristóbal

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2019 1:04 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

In my case I never move my left hand when using capslock. But my fingers are very very long so I can do that.

Take care

On 21 Jan 2019, at 12:45, Gene wrote:

I think its because you are used to that method.  I very much doubt that for a regular numpad user, there is any loss of efficiency.  And if you use caps lock, you are still moving your left hand away from the home keys.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Cristóbal

Sent: Monday, January 21, 2019 12:06 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

With Jaws, I always enable the laptop keyboard layout, be it for my desktops or laptops. Indeed, I do use the numpad and arrow keys for commands, but having the ability to use the same navigational commands on the main keyboard itself as well proves to be a huge efficiency booster and time saver.

I.E. commands such as capslock+N, comma or period for previous character, current character, next character. Capslock+ J, K or L for previous word, current word and next word. Capslock+ U, I or O for previous line, current line and next line. Same for paragraph and sentence, etc.

Again, it’s not that switching back and forth between the main keyboard to either the arrow keys or numpad is especially burdensome, but depending on what you may be doing multiplied by hundreds of times in a day, thee navigational commands via the laptop keyboard layout just feels like a more efficient process of getting things done.

The only command I came across for anything similar with NVDA is the capslock+L command for say current line. It doesn’t seem like there are too many NVDA keystroke commands that make use of the capslock+ the letters on the keyboard. Thus my query if I was in fact missing something and there were in fact keystroke commands beyond this one command or an add-on that expanded on this capability.

So yes, I am well aware of all the various numpad navigational commands as well as using the four arrow keys, but my question was on whether these same commands could also be replicated via the main keyboard. Just use the numpad or arrow keys really doesn’t address my question. If there is in fact not a current means of doing this either through a built in function in NVDA itself or through an add-on, then that would also be good to know.

 

Cristóbal

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 10:38 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

Are you saying you want to use movement commands where you use keyboard commands for movement in JAWS that duplicate the numpad movement commands in desktop layout?  NVDA doesn't have such commands.  The numpad isn't used for that purpose in the desktop layout and such commands aren't duplicated on the laptop.  If that is what you are saying, I think that if you got used to it and gave it time, you would find movement with the keyboard commands such as control plus arrow keys to be as efficient.  Its muscle memory, as you said.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Cristóbal

Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 9:46 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

I’ve been using Jaws going on 18 years now.

I am aware of the various Jaws screen reader and windows numpad keystroke commands.

My query was on commands for navigating via the keyboard in a laptop mode. As I mentioned going back and forth between the keyboard and the numpad/arrow keys for me at least takes away from the efficiency as opposed to with Jaws where you can do navigate by character, word, line or paragraph without ever having to take your hands away from the main keyboard itself. It’s not that going back and forth between the main keyboard and numpad or arrow keys is that big a deal, but do it hundreds of times throughout the day and in the aggregate  can quickly become noticeable and tedious.

Thus my question on whether there were NVDA commands and or an add-on beyond the capslock+L for read current line that also allowed for further navigation without having to use the numpad and even the arrow keys.

 

Cristóbal

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 4:45 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

I should say, on seeing further discussion, that I'm not sure what you mean by jump by word.  As has been said, control down arrow moves down by paragraph and you can use all the standard movement commands.  They are not screen-reader commands.  If someone only taught you the numpad command movement commands in JAWS or the laptop alternative numpad movement commands, that's negligence.  In any screen-reader, or even if you weren't using one, you can use all these commands.  Right arrow, move one character right.  Left arrow, move one character left.  Up arrow, move up one line.  Down arrow, move down one line.  Down by paragraph, control down arrow. 

Up by paragraph, control up arrow.

 

I'm not sure if those are the kinds of commands you want to know but I suspect you were only taught the JAWS numpad or the JAWS laptop movement commands and not the Windows commands and that is incompetent teaching beyond belief, if that is what was done.

 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 5:51 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

I don't use the laptop layout in NVDA.  I wouldn't even if I had a laptop without a numpad.  I much prefer the desktop layout.  I haven't looked at the laptop commands much but they don't seem consistent to me in terms of following patterns nearly as much as the desktop layout does.  If you are looking at commands using something like the commands reference and you are using the laptop commands, those are the ones to use.  If you want to get a USB numpad and use the desktop layout, I don't know if you would like the structure more but I prefer it a great deal more.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Cristóbal

Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 5:19 PM

Subject: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

Hello list,

So I am mainly a Jaws user, but have been trying to make the effort to use NVDA more or at least become more proficient with it. The one issue I continue to have with NVDA and just can’t get used to is the keyboard navigation. I know it in part has to do with simple muscle memory with Jaws commands, but outside of the NVDA key (caps lock) plus L command to read the current line, I just cannot get used to not being able to jump around via paragraph or line or word, etc., like in Jaws laptop keyboard layout. Am I just missing something and am not aware of other keyboard navigational keystroke commands in NVDA or is there perhaps an add-on I can install?

Yes, I know there are all the numpad commands, but with Jaws at least, being able to keep one’s hands on the keyboard instead of having to switch back and forth adds up and makes a difference and comfort. And to be clear, I’m not looking for a Jaws clone and am aware that they’re two different products. I’m completely open to this different approach, but this navigational thing is for me anyway proving to be the one major stumbling bock to try to use it more.

I would appreciate any enlightenment.

Thanks,

Cristóbal

 




Re: NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

Sarah k Alawami
 

Not reassign. I'd rather add the keystrokes as alternatives, but I guess reassign would be a better word for now, as long as you can go back to default in case you mess up.

On 21 Jan 2019, at 14:02, marcio via Groups.Io wrote:

I guess you can do it through the input settings, guess that's the name of it.
Anyway, it's something having to do with lots of functions in a list where you can reassign its hotkeys.

Cheers,
Marcio
Follow me on Twitter

Em 21/01/2019 19:46, Sarah k Alawami escreveu:

I wonder if you can remap laptop keystrokes? If you can you could probably add nvda u i and o for next, current and prev line, and then j k and l for words and n m and cama for characters.

On 21 Jan 2019, at 13:21, Cristóbal wrote:

Indeed, it’s mainly a right  handed thing. Left hand doesn’t go anywhere.

Different strokes for different folks. Some may find one way to be more or less efficient. I’m not going to say that having to use the numpad or arrow keys is bad. I just find it that the less I have to move my right hand around the keyboard throughout the day, the less disruptive I find it to be.

Seeing as how NVDA doesn’t really have all that many alphanumeric keyboard commands, I find it odd that there really isn’t much beyond capslock+L so you can keep both hands on the keyboard. Anyway, and so it goes…

 

Cristóbal

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2019 1:04 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

In my case I never move my left hand when using capslock. But my fingers are very very long so I can do that.

Take care

On 21 Jan 2019, at 12:45, Gene wrote:

I think its because you are used to that method.  I very much doubt that for a regular numpad user, there is any loss of efficiency.  And if you use caps lock, you are still moving your left hand away from the home keys.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Cristóbal

Sent: Monday, January 21, 2019 12:06 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

With Jaws, I always enable the laptop keyboard layout, be it for my desktops or laptops. Indeed, I do use the numpad and arrow keys for commands, but having the ability to use the same navigational commands on the main keyboard itself as well proves to be a huge efficiency booster and time saver.

I.E. commands such as capslock+N, comma or period for previous character, current character, next character. Capslock+ J, K or L for previous word, current word and next word. Capslock+ U, I or O for previous line, current line and next line. Same for paragraph and sentence, etc.

Again, it’s not that switching back and forth between the main keyboard to either the arrow keys or numpad is especially burdensome, but depending on what you may be doing multiplied by hundreds of times in a day, thee navigational commands via the laptop keyboard layout just feels like a more efficient process of getting things done.

The only command I came across for anything similar with NVDA is the capslock+L command for say current line. It doesn’t seem like there are too many NVDA keystroke commands that make use of the capslock+ the letters on the keyboard. Thus my query if I was in fact missing something and there were in fact keystroke commands beyond this one command or an add-on that expanded on this capability.

So yes, I am well aware of all the various numpad navigational commands as well as using the four arrow keys, but my question was on whether these same commands could also be replicated via the main keyboard. Just use the numpad or arrow keys really doesn’t address my question. If there is in fact not a current means of doing this either through a built in function in NVDA itself or through an add-on, then that would also be good to know.

 

Cristóbal

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 10:38 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

Are you saying you want to use movement commands where you use keyboard commands for movement in JAWS that duplicate the numpad movement commands in desktop layout?  NVDA doesn't have such commands.  The numpad isn't used for that purpose in the desktop layout and such commands aren't duplicated on the laptop.  If that is what you are saying, I think that if you got used to it and gave it time, you would find movement with the keyboard commands such as control plus arrow keys to be as efficient.  Its muscle memory, as you said.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Cristóbal

Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 9:46 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

I’ve been using Jaws going on 18 years now.

I am aware of the various Jaws screen reader and windows numpad keystroke commands.

My query was on commands for navigating via the keyboard in a laptop mode. As I mentioned going back and forth between the keyboard and the numpad/arrow keys for me at least takes away from the efficiency as opposed to with Jaws where you can do navigate by character, word, line or paragraph without ever having to take your hands away from the main keyboard itself. It’s not that going back and forth between the main keyboard and numpad or arrow keys is that big a deal, but do it hundreds of times throughout the day and in the aggregate  can quickly become noticeable and tedious.

Thus my question on whether there were NVDA commands and or an add-on beyond the capslock+L for read current line that also allowed for further navigation without having to use the numpad and even the arrow keys.

 

Cristóbal

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 4:45 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

I should say, on seeing further discussion, that I'm not sure what you mean by jump by word.  As has been said, control down arrow moves down by paragraph and you can use all the standard movement commands.  They are not screen-reader commands.  If someone only taught you the numpad command movement commands in JAWS or the laptop alternative numpad movement commands, that's negligence.  In any screen-reader, or even if you weren't using one, you can use all these commands.  Right arrow, move one character right.  Left arrow, move one character left.  Up arrow, move up one line.  Down arrow, move down one line.  Down by paragraph, control down arrow. 

Up by paragraph, control up arrow.

 

I'm not sure if those are the kinds of commands you want to know but I suspect you were only taught the JAWS numpad or the JAWS laptop movement commands and not the Windows commands and that is incompetent teaching beyond belief, if that is what was done.

 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 5:51 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

I don't use the laptop layout in NVDA.  I wouldn't even if I had a laptop without a numpad.  I much prefer the desktop layout.  I haven't looked at the laptop commands much but they don't seem consistent to me in terms of following patterns nearly as much as the desktop layout does.  If you are looking at commands using something like the commands reference and you are using the laptop commands, those are the ones to use.  If you want to get a USB numpad and use the desktop layout, I don't know if you would like the structure more but I prefer it a great deal more.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Cristóbal

Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 5:19 PM

Subject: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

Hello list,

So I am mainly a Jaws user, but have been trying to make the effort to use NVDA more or at least become more proficient with it. The one issue I continue to have with NVDA and just can’t get used to is the keyboard navigation. I know it in part has to do with simple muscle memory with Jaws commands, but outside of the NVDA key (caps lock) plus L command to read the current line, I just cannot get used to not being able to jump around via paragraph or line or word, etc., like in Jaws laptop keyboard layout. Am I just missing something and am not aware of other keyboard navigational keystroke commands in NVDA or is there perhaps an add-on I can install?

Yes, I know there are all the numpad commands, but with Jaws at least, being able to keep one’s hands on the keyboard instead of having to switch back and forth adds up and makes a difference and comfort. And to be clear, I’m not looking for a Jaws clone and am aware that they’re two different products. I’m completely open to this different approach, but this navigational thing is for me anyway proving to be the one major stumbling bock to try to use it more.

I would appreciate any enlightenment.

Thanks,

Cristóbal

 



Re: NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 at 04:46 PM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
I wonder if you can remap laptop keystrokes?
Even if one can, this is a "proceed with caution" area.

There was a time when I was first tutoring that I subscribed to the "customize everything however much you want to to make your computing environment suit yourself."  Over time I learned that overdoing this makes one like a deer in the headlights if faced with having to use another machine, even temporarily, if too much has been changed from defaults that it's impossible for the user to even remember all of what they've customized.

When it comes to native screen reader commands, regardless of the screen reader, I would be very, very cautious about reassigning them even if that's possible.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


Re: NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

I guess you can do it through the input settings, guess that's the name of it.
Anyway, it's something having to do with lots of functions in a list where you can reassign its hotkeys.

Cheers,
Marcio
Follow me on Twitter

Em 21/01/2019 19:46, Sarah k Alawami escreveu:

I wonder if you can remap laptop keystrokes? If you can you could probably add nvda u i and o for next, current and prev line, and then j k and l for words and n m and cama for characters.

On 21 Jan 2019, at 13:21, Cristóbal wrote:

Indeed, it’s mainly a right  handed thing. Left hand doesn’t go anywhere.

Different strokes for different folks. Some may find one way to be more or less efficient. I’m not going to say that having to use the numpad or arrow keys is bad. I just find it that the less I have to move my right hand around the keyboard throughout the day, the less disruptive I find it to be.

Seeing as how NVDA doesn’t really have all that many alphanumeric keyboard commands, I find it odd that there really isn’t much beyond capslock+L so you can keep both hands on the keyboard. Anyway, and so it goes…

 

Cristóbal

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2019 1:04 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

In my case I never move my left hand when using capslock. But my fingers are very very long so I can do that.

Take care

On 21 Jan 2019, at 12:45, Gene wrote:

I think its because you are used to that method.  I very much doubt that for a regular numpad user, there is any loss of efficiency.  And if you use caps lock, you are still moving your left hand away from the home keys.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Cristóbal

Sent: Monday, January 21, 2019 12:06 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

With Jaws, I always enable the laptop keyboard layout, be it for my desktops or laptops. Indeed, I do use the numpad and arrow keys for commands, but having the ability to use the same navigational commands on the main keyboard itself as well proves to be a huge efficiency booster and time saver.

I.E. commands such as capslock+N, comma or period for previous character, current character, next character. Capslock+ J, K or L for previous word, current word and next word. Capslock+ U, I or O for previous line, current line and next line. Same for paragraph and sentence, etc.

Again, it’s not that switching back and forth between the main keyboard to either the arrow keys or numpad is especially burdensome, but depending on what you may be doing multiplied by hundreds of times in a day, thee navigational commands via the laptop keyboard layout just feels like a more efficient process of getting things done.

The only command I came across for anything similar with NVDA is the capslock+L command for say current line. It doesn’t seem like there are too many NVDA keystroke commands that make use of the capslock+ the letters on the keyboard. Thus my query if I was in fact missing something and there were in fact keystroke commands beyond this one command or an add-on that expanded on this capability.

So yes, I am well aware of all the various numpad navigational commands as well as using the four arrow keys, but my question was on whether these same commands could also be replicated via the main keyboard. Just use the numpad or arrow keys really doesn’t address my question. If there is in fact not a current means of doing this either through a built in function in NVDA itself or through an add-on, then that would also be good to know.

 

Cristóbal

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 10:38 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

Are you saying you want to use movement commands where you use keyboard commands for movement in JAWS that duplicate the numpad movement commands in desktop layout?  NVDA doesn't have such commands.  The numpad isn't used for that purpose in the desktop layout and such commands aren't duplicated on the laptop.  If that is what you are saying, I think that if you got used to it and gave it time, you would find movement with the keyboard commands such as control plus arrow keys to be as efficient.  Its muscle memory, as you said.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Cristóbal

Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 9:46 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

I’ve been using Jaws going on 18 years now.

I am aware of the various Jaws screen reader and windows numpad keystroke commands.

My query was on commands for navigating via the keyboard in a laptop mode. As I mentioned going back and forth between the keyboard and the numpad/arrow keys for me at least takes away from the efficiency as opposed to with Jaws where you can do navigate by character, word, line or paragraph without ever having to take your hands away from the main keyboard itself. It’s not that going back and forth between the main keyboard and numpad or arrow keys is that big a deal, but do it hundreds of times throughout the day and in the aggregate  can quickly become noticeable and tedious.

Thus my question on whether there were NVDA commands and or an add-on beyond the capslock+L for read current line that also allowed for further navigation without having to use the numpad and even the arrow keys.

 

Cristóbal

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 4:45 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

I should say, on seeing further discussion, that I'm not sure what you mean by jump by word.  As has been said, control down arrow moves down by paragraph and you can use all the standard movement commands.  They are not screen-reader commands.  If someone only taught you the numpad command movement commands in JAWS or the laptop alternative numpad movement commands, that's negligence.  In any screen-reader, or even if you weren't using one, you can use all these commands.  Right arrow, move one character right.  Left arrow, move one character left.  Up arrow, move up one line.  Down arrow, move down one line.  Down by paragraph, control down arrow. 

Up by paragraph, control up arrow.

 

I'm not sure if those are the kinds of commands you want to know but I suspect you were only taught the JAWS numpad or the JAWS laptop movement commands and not the Windows commands and that is incompetent teaching beyond belief, if that is what was done.

 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 5:51 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

I don't use the laptop layout in NVDA.  I wouldn't even if I had a laptop without a numpad.  I much prefer the desktop layout.  I haven't looked at the laptop commands much but they don't seem consistent to me in terms of following patterns nearly as much as the desktop layout does.  If you are looking at commands using something like the commands reference and you are using the laptop commands, those are the ones to use.  If you want to get a USB numpad and use the desktop layout, I don't know if you would like the structure more but I prefer it a great deal more.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Cristóbal

Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 5:19 PM

Subject: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

Hello list,

So I am mainly a Jaws user, but have been trying to make the effort to use NVDA more or at least become more proficient with it. The one issue I continue to have with NVDA and just can’t get used to is the keyboard navigation. I know it in part has to do with simple muscle memory with Jaws commands, but outside of the NVDA key (caps lock) plus L command to read the current line, I just cannot get used to not being able to jump around via paragraph or line or word, etc., like in Jaws laptop keyboard layout. Am I just missing something and am not aware of other keyboard navigational keystroke commands in NVDA or is there perhaps an add-on I can install?

Yes, I know there are all the numpad commands, but with Jaws at least, being able to keep one’s hands on the keyboard instead of having to switch back and forth adds up and makes a difference and comfort. And to be clear, I’m not looking for a Jaws clone and am aware that they’re two different products. I’m completely open to this different approach, but this navigational thing is for me anyway proving to be the one major stumbling bock to try to use it more.

I would appreciate any enlightenment.

Thanks,

Cristóbal

 



Re: NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

Sarah k Alawami
 

I wonder if you can remap laptop keystrokes? If you can you could probably add nvda u i and o for next, current and prev line, and then j k and l for words and n m and cama for characters.

On 21 Jan 2019, at 13:21, Cristóbal wrote:

Indeed, it’s mainly a right  handed thing. Left hand doesn’t go anywhere.

Different strokes for different folks. Some may find one way to be more or less efficient. I’m not going to say that having to use the numpad or arrow keys is bad. I just find it that the less I have to move my right hand around the keyboard throughout the day, the less disruptive I find it to be.

Seeing as how NVDA doesn’t really have all that many alphanumeric keyboard commands, I find it odd that there really isn’t much beyond capslock+L so you can keep both hands on the keyboard. Anyway, and so it goes…

 

Cristóbal

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2019 1:04 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

In my case I never move my left hand when using capslock. But my fingers are very very long so I can do that.

Take care

On 21 Jan 2019, at 12:45, Gene wrote:

I think its because you are used to that method.  I very much doubt that for a regular numpad user, there is any loss of efficiency.  And if you use caps lock, you are still moving your left hand away from the home keys.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Cristóbal

Sent: Monday, January 21, 2019 12:06 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

With Jaws, I always enable the laptop keyboard layout, be it for my desktops or laptops. Indeed, I do use the numpad and arrow keys for commands, but having the ability to use the same navigational commands on the main keyboard itself as well proves to be a huge efficiency booster and time saver.

I.E. commands such as capslock+N, comma or period for previous character, current character, next character. Capslock+ J, K or L for previous word, current word and next word. Capslock+ U, I or O for previous line, current line and next line. Same for paragraph and sentence, etc.

Again, it’s not that switching back and forth between the main keyboard to either the arrow keys or numpad is especially burdensome, but depending on what you may be doing multiplied by hundreds of times in a day, thee navigational commands via the laptop keyboard layout just feels like a more efficient process of getting things done.

The only command I came across for anything similar with NVDA is the capslock+L command for say current line. It doesn’t seem like there are too many NVDA keystroke commands that make use of the capslock+ the letters on the keyboard. Thus my query if I was in fact missing something and there were in fact keystroke commands beyond this one command or an add-on that expanded on this capability.

So yes, I am well aware of all the various numpad navigational commands as well as using the four arrow keys, but my question was on whether these same commands could also be replicated via the main keyboard. Just use the numpad or arrow keys really doesn’t address my question. If there is in fact not a current means of doing this either through a built in function in NVDA itself or through an add-on, then that would also be good to know.

 

Cristóbal

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 10:38 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

Are you saying you want to use movement commands where you use keyboard commands for movement in JAWS that duplicate the numpad movement commands in desktop layout?  NVDA doesn't have such commands.  The numpad isn't used for that purpose in the desktop layout and such commands aren't duplicated on the laptop.  If that is what you are saying, I think that if you got used to it and gave it time, you would find movement with the keyboard commands such as control plus arrow keys to be as efficient.  Its muscle memory, as you said.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Cristóbal

Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 9:46 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

I’ve been using Jaws going on 18 years now.

I am aware of the various Jaws screen reader and windows numpad keystroke commands.

My query was on commands for navigating via the keyboard in a laptop mode. As I mentioned going back and forth between the keyboard and the numpad/arrow keys for me at least takes away from the efficiency as opposed to with Jaws where you can do navigate by character, word, line or paragraph without ever having to take your hands away from the main keyboard itself. It’s not that going back and forth between the main keyboard and numpad or arrow keys is that big a deal, but do it hundreds of times throughout the day and in the aggregate  can quickly become noticeable and tedious.

Thus my question on whether there were NVDA commands and or an add-on beyond the capslock+L for read current line that also allowed for further navigation without having to use the numpad and even the arrow keys.

 

Cristóbal

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 4:45 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

I should say, on seeing further discussion, that I'm not sure what you mean by jump by word.  As has been said, control down arrow moves down by paragraph and you can use all the standard movement commands.  They are not screen-reader commands.  If someone only taught you the numpad command movement commands in JAWS or the laptop alternative numpad movement commands, that's negligence.  In any screen-reader, or even if you weren't using one, you can use all these commands.  Right arrow, move one character right.  Left arrow, move one character left.  Up arrow, move up one line.  Down arrow, move down one line.  Down by paragraph, control down arrow. 

Up by paragraph, control up arrow.

 

I'm not sure if those are the kinds of commands you want to know but I suspect you were only taught the JAWS numpad or the JAWS laptop movement commands and not the Windows commands and that is incompetent teaching beyond belief, if that is what was done.

 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 5:51 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

I don't use the laptop layout in NVDA.  I wouldn't even if I had a laptop without a numpad.  I much prefer the desktop layout.  I haven't looked at the laptop commands much but they don't seem consistent to me in terms of following patterns nearly as much as the desktop layout does.  If you are looking at commands using something like the commands reference and you are using the laptop commands, those are the ones to use.  If you want to get a USB numpad and use the desktop layout, I don't know if you would like the structure more but I prefer it a great deal more.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Cristóbal

Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 5:19 PM

Subject: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

Hello list,

So I am mainly a Jaws user, but have been trying to make the effort to use NVDA more or at least become more proficient with it. The one issue I continue to have with NVDA and just can’t get used to is the keyboard navigation. I know it in part has to do with simple muscle memory with Jaws commands, but outside of the NVDA key (caps lock) plus L command to read the current line, I just cannot get used to not being able to jump around via paragraph or line or word, etc., like in Jaws laptop keyboard layout. Am I just missing something and am not aware of other keyboard navigational keystroke commands in NVDA or is there perhaps an add-on I can install?

Yes, I know there are all the numpad commands, but with Jaws at least, being able to keep one’s hands on the keyboard instead of having to switch back and forth adds up and makes a difference and comfort. And to be clear, I’m not looking for a Jaws clone and am aware that they’re two different products. I’m completely open to this different approach, but this navigational thing is for me anyway proving to be the one major stumbling bock to try to use it more.

I would appreciate any enlightenment.

Thanks,

Cristóbal

 


Re: reading from cursor to end of document issues

 

From the NVDA keyboard shortcuts document

Say all
Desktop Layout   NVDA+Down Arrow
Laptop Layout     NVDA+a
Description:  Starts reading from the current position of the system caret, moving it along as it goes
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


Re: NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 Gene wrote:
I very much doubt that for a regular numpad user, there is any loss of efficiency.  And if you use caps lock, you are still moving your left hand away from the home keys.
And I think you say that because you've never used a system where one's hands never leave the alphanumeric keyboard.  As someone who did, for years, with a text editor I can tell you that extending your left pinky to CAPS LOCK or similar is generally much faster than moving either hand in full (or even "hyperextended" in part) off of the alphanumeric keyboard.

That's one of the reasons that many text editors designed for programmers work that way, so that one never lifts one's hand from the main keyboard.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


Re: NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

Cristóbal
 

Indeed, it’s mainly a right  handed thing. Left hand doesn’t go anywhere.

Different strokes for different folks. Some may find one way to be more or less efficient. I’m not going to say that having to use the numpad or arrow keys is bad. I just find it that the less I have to move my right hand around the keyboard throughout the day, the less disruptive I find it to be.

Seeing as how NVDA doesn’t really have all that many alphanumeric keyboard commands, I find it odd that there really isn’t much beyond capslock+L so you can keep both hands on the keyboard. Anyway, and so it goes…

 

Cristóbal

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2019 1:04 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

In my case I never move my left hand when using capslock. But my fingers are very very long so I can do that.

Take care

On 21 Jan 2019, at 12:45, Gene wrote:

I think its because you are used to that method.  I very much doubt that for a regular numpad user, there is any loss of efficiency.  And if you use caps lock, you are still moving your left hand away from the home keys.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Cristóbal

Sent: Monday, January 21, 2019 12:06 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

With Jaws, I always enable the laptop keyboard layout, be it for my desktops or laptops. Indeed, I do use the numpad and arrow keys for commands, but having the ability to use the same navigational commands on the main keyboard itself as well proves to be a huge efficiency booster and time saver.

I.E. commands such as capslock+N, comma or period for previous character, current character, next character. Capslock+ J, K or L for previous word, current word and next word. Capslock+ U, I or O for previous line, current line and next line. Same for paragraph and sentence, etc.

Again, it’s not that switching back and forth between the main keyboard to either the arrow keys or numpad is especially burdensome, but depending on what you may be doing multiplied by hundreds of times in a day, thee navigational commands via the laptop keyboard layout just feels like a more efficient process of getting things done.

The only command I came across for anything similar with NVDA is the capslock+L command for say current line. It doesn’t seem like there are too many NVDA keystroke commands that make use of the capslock+ the letters on the keyboard. Thus my query if I was in fact missing something and there were in fact keystroke commands beyond this one command or an add-on that expanded on this capability.

So yes, I am well aware of all the various numpad navigational commands as well as using the four arrow keys, but my question was on whether these same commands could also be replicated via the main keyboard. Just use the numpad or arrow keys really doesn’t address my question. If there is in fact not a current means of doing this either through a built in function in NVDA itself or through an add-on, then that would also be good to know.

 

Cristóbal

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 10:38 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

Are you saying you want to use movement commands where you use keyboard commands for movement in JAWS that duplicate the numpad movement commands in desktop layout?  NVDA doesn't have such commands.  The numpad isn't used for that purpose in the desktop layout and such commands aren't duplicated on the laptop.  If that is what you are saying, I think that if you got used to it and gave it time, you would find movement with the keyboard commands such as control plus arrow keys to be as efficient.  Its muscle memory, as you said.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Cristóbal

Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 9:46 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

I’ve been using Jaws going on 18 years now.

I am aware of the various Jaws screen reader and windows numpad keystroke commands.

My query was on commands for navigating via the keyboard in a laptop mode. As I mentioned going back and forth between the keyboard and the numpad/arrow keys for me at least takes away from the efficiency as opposed to with Jaws where you can do navigate by character, word, line or paragraph without ever having to take your hands away from the main keyboard itself. It’s not that going back and forth between the main keyboard and numpad or arrow keys is that big a deal, but do it hundreds of times throughout the day and in the aggregate  can quickly become noticeable and tedious.

Thus my question on whether there were NVDA commands and or an add-on beyond the capslock+L for read current line that also allowed for further navigation without having to use the numpad and even the arrow keys.

 

Cristóbal

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 4:45 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

I should say, on seeing further discussion, that I'm not sure what you mean by jump by word.  As has been said, control down arrow moves down by paragraph and you can use all the standard movement commands.  They are not screen-reader commands.  If someone only taught you the numpad command movement commands in JAWS or the laptop alternative numpad movement commands, that's negligence.  In any screen-reader, or even if you weren't using one, you can use all these commands.  Right arrow, move one character right.  Left arrow, move one character left.  Up arrow, move up one line.  Down arrow, move down one line.  Down by paragraph, control down arrow. 

Up by paragraph, control up arrow.

 

I'm not sure if those are the kinds of commands you want to know but I suspect you were only taught the JAWS numpad or the JAWS laptop movement commands and not the Windows commands and that is incompetent teaching beyond belief, if that is what was done.

 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 5:51 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

I don't use the laptop layout in NVDA.  I wouldn't even if I had a laptop without a numpad.  I much prefer the desktop layout.  I haven't looked at the laptop commands much but they don't seem consistent to me in terms of following patterns nearly as much as the desktop layout does.  If you are looking at commands using something like the commands reference and you are using the laptop commands, those are the ones to use.  If you want to get a USB numpad and use the desktop layout, I don't know if you would like the structure more but I prefer it a great deal more.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Cristóbal

Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 5:19 PM

Subject: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

Hello list,

So I am mainly a Jaws user, but have been trying to make the effort to use NVDA more or at least become more proficient with it. The one issue I continue to have with NVDA and just can’t get used to is the keyboard navigation. I know it in part has to do with simple muscle memory with Jaws commands, but outside of the NVDA key (caps lock) plus L command to read the current line, I just cannot get used to not being able to jump around via paragraph or line or word, etc., like in Jaws laptop keyboard layout. Am I just missing something and am not aware of other keyboard navigational keystroke commands in NVDA or is there perhaps an add-on I can install?

Yes, I know there are all the numpad commands, but with Jaws at least, being able to keep one’s hands on the keyboard instead of having to switch back and forth adds up and makes a difference and comfort. And to be clear, I’m not looking for a Jaws clone and am aware that they’re two different products. I’m completely open to this different approach, but this navigational thing is for me anyway proving to be the one major stumbling bock to try to use it more.

I would appreciate any enlightenment.

Thanks,

Cristóbal

 


Re: NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

Sarah k Alawami
 

In my case I never move my left hand when using capslock. But my fingers are very very long so I can do that.

Take care

On 21 Jan 2019, at 12:45, Gene wrote:

I think its because you are used to that method.  I very much doubt that for a regular numpad user, there is any loss of efficiency.  And if you use caps lock, you are still moving your left hand away from the home keys.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Cristóbal
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2019 12:06 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

With Jaws, I always enable the laptop keyboard layout, be it for my desktops or laptops. Indeed, I do use the numpad and arrow keys for commands, but having the ability to use the same navigational commands on the main keyboard itself as well proves to be a huge efficiency booster and time saver.

I.E. commands such as capslock+N, comma or period for previous character, current character, next character. Capslock+ J, K or L for previous word, current word and next word. Capslock+ U, I or O for previous line, current line and next line. Same for paragraph and sentence, etc.

Again, it’s not that switching back and forth between the main keyboard to either the arrow keys or numpad is especially burdensome, but depending on what you may be doing multiplied by hundreds of times in a day, thee navigational commands via the laptop keyboard layout just feels like a more efficient process of getting things done.

The only command I came across for anything similar with NVDA is the capslock+L command for say current line. It doesn’t seem like there are too many NVDA keystroke commands that make use of the capslock+ the letters on the keyboard. Thus my query if I was in fact missing something and there were in fact keystroke commands beyond this one command or an add-on that expanded on this capability.

So yes, I am well aware of all the various numpad navigational commands as well as using the four arrow keys, but my question was on whether these same commands could also be replicated via the main keyboard. Just use the numpad or arrow keys really doesn’t address my question. If there is in fact not a current means of doing this either through a built in function in NVDA itself or through an add-on, then that would also be good to know.

 

Cristóbal

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 10:38 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

Are you saying you want to use movement commands where you use keyboard commands for movement in JAWS that duplicate the numpad movement commands in desktop layout?  NVDA doesn't have such commands.  The numpad isn't used for that purpose in the desktop layout and such commands aren't duplicated on the laptop.  If that is what you are saying, I think that if you got used to it and gave it time, you would find movement with the keyboard commands such as control plus arrow keys to be as efficient.  Its muscle memory, as you said.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Cristóbal

Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 9:46 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

I’ve been using Jaws going on 18 years now.

I am aware of the various Jaws screen reader and windows numpad keystroke commands.

My query was on commands for navigating via the keyboard in a laptop mode. As I mentioned going back and forth between the keyboard and the numpad/arrow keys for me at least takes away from the efficiency as opposed to with Jaws where you can do navigate by character, word, line or paragraph without ever having to take your hands away from the main keyboard itself. It’s not that going back and forth between the main keyboard and numpad or arrow keys is that big a deal, but do it hundreds of times throughout the day and in the aggregate  can quickly become noticeable and tedious.

Thus my question on whether there were NVDA commands and or an add-on beyond the capslock+L for read current line that also allowed for further navigation without having to use the numpad and even the arrow keys.

 

Cristóbal

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 4:45 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

I should say, on seeing further discussion, that I'm not sure what you mean by jump by word.  As has been said, control down arrow moves down by paragraph and you can use all the standard movement commands.  They are not screen-reader commands.  If someone only taught you the numpad command movement commands in JAWS or the laptop alternative numpad movement commands, that's negligence.  In any screen-reader, or even if you weren't using one, you can use all these commands.  Right arrow, move one character right.  Left arrow, move one character left.  Up arrow, move up one line.  Down arrow, move down one line.  Down by paragraph, control down arrow. 

Up by paragraph, control up arrow.

 

I'm not sure if those are the kinds of commands you want to know but I suspect you were only taught the JAWS numpad or the JAWS laptop movement commands and not the Windows commands and that is incompetent teaching beyond belief, if that is what was done.

 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 5:51 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

I don't use the laptop layout in NVDA.  I wouldn't even if I had a laptop without a numpad.  I much prefer the desktop layout.  I haven't looked at the laptop commands much but they don't seem consistent to me in terms of following patterns nearly as much as the desktop layout does.  If you are looking at commands using something like the commands reference and you are using the laptop commands, those are the ones to use.  If you want to get a USB numpad and use the desktop layout, I don't know if you would like the structure more but I prefer it a great deal more.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Cristóbal

Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 5:19 PM

Subject: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

Hello list,

So I am mainly a Jaws user, but have been trying to make the effort to use NVDA more or at least become more proficient with it. The one issue I continue to have with NVDA and just can’t get used to is the keyboard navigation. I know it in part has to do with simple muscle memory with Jaws commands, but outside of the NVDA key (caps lock) plus L command to read the current line, I just cannot get used to not being able to jump around via paragraph or line or word, etc., like in Jaws laptop keyboard layout. Am I just missing something and am not aware of other keyboard navigational keystroke commands in NVDA or is there perhaps an add-on I can install?

Yes, I know there are all the numpad commands, but with Jaws at least, being able to keep one’s hands on the keyboard instead of having to switch back and forth adds up and makes a difference and comfort. And to be clear, I’m not looking for a Jaws clone and am aware that they’re two different products. I’m completely open to this different approach, but this navigational thing is for me anyway proving to be the one major stumbling bock to try to use it more.

I would appreciate any enlightenment.

Thanks,

Cristóbal

 


Re: reading from cursor to end of document issues

Gene
 

Are you using the desktop layout?  If you are using the laptop layout, that is not the correct command. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2019 12:33 PM
Subject: [nvda] reading from cursor to end of document issues

Hi all,

I frequently have issues with NVDA not reading from cursor to end of a document.  I press NVDA key plus down arrow and only one line is read. How can I get it to continue reading?  I believe this use to work.  But maybe I’m mistaken.

Thanks for any guidance.

 


Re: NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

Gene
 

I think its because you are used to that method.  I very much doubt that for a regular numpad user, there is any loss of efficiency.  And if you use caps lock, you are still moving your left hand away from the home keys.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Cristóbal
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2019 12:06 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

With Jaws, I always enable the laptop keyboard layout, be it for my desktops or laptops. Indeed, I do use the numpad and arrow keys for commands, but having the ability to use the same navigational commands on the main keyboard itself as well proves to be a huge efficiency booster and time saver.

I.E. commands such as capslock+N, comma or period for previous character, current character, next character. Capslock+ J, K or L for previous word, current word and next word. Capslock+ U, I or O for previous line, current line and next line. Same for paragraph and sentence, etc.

Again, it’s not that switching back and forth between the main keyboard to either the arrow keys or numpad is especially burdensome, but depending on what you may be doing multiplied by hundreds of times in a day, thee navigational commands via the laptop keyboard layout just feels like a more efficient process of getting things done.

The only command I came across for anything similar with NVDA is the capslock+L command for say current line. It doesn’t seem like there are too many NVDA keystroke commands that make use of the capslock+ the letters on the keyboard. Thus my query if I was in fact missing something and there were in fact keystroke commands beyond this one command or an add-on that expanded on this capability.

So yes, I am well aware of all the various numpad navigational commands as well as using the four arrow keys, but my question was on whether these same commands could also be replicated via the main keyboard. Just use the numpad or arrow keys really doesn’t address my question. If there is in fact not a current means of doing this either through a built in function in NVDA itself or through an add-on, then that would also be good to know.

 

Cristóbal

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 10:38 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

Are you saying you want to use movement commands where you use keyboard commands for movement in JAWS that duplicate the numpad movement commands in desktop layout?  NVDA doesn't have such commands.  The numpad isn't used for that purpose in the desktop layout and such commands aren't duplicated on the laptop.  If that is what you are saying, I think that if you got used to it and gave it time, you would find movement with the keyboard commands such as control plus arrow keys to be as efficient.  Its muscle memory, as you said.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Cristóbal

Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 9:46 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

I’ve been using Jaws going on 18 years now.

I am aware of the various Jaws screen reader and windows numpad keystroke commands.

My query was on commands for navigating via the keyboard in a laptop mode. As I mentioned going back and forth between the keyboard and the numpad/arrow keys for me at least takes away from the efficiency as opposed to with Jaws where you can do navigate by character, word, line or paragraph without ever having to take your hands away from the main keyboard itself. It’s not that going back and forth between the main keyboard and numpad or arrow keys is that big a deal, but do it hundreds of times throughout the day and in the aggregate  can quickly become noticeable and tedious.

Thus my question on whether there were NVDA commands and or an add-on beyond the capslock+L for read current line that also allowed for further navigation without having to use the numpad and even the arrow keys.

 

Cristóbal

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 4:45 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

I should say, on seeing further discussion, that I'm not sure what you mean by jump by word.  As has been said, control down arrow moves down by paragraph and you can use all the standard movement commands.  They are not screen-reader commands.  If someone only taught you the numpad command movement commands in JAWS or the laptop alternative numpad movement commands, that's negligence.  In any screen-reader, or even if you weren't using one, you can use all these commands.  Right arrow, move one character right.  Left arrow, move one character left.  Up arrow, move up one line.  Down arrow, move down one line.  Down by paragraph, control down arrow. 

Up by paragraph, control up arrow.

 

I'm not sure if those are the kinds of commands you want to know but I suspect you were only taught the JAWS numpad or the JAWS laptop movement commands and not the Windows commands and that is incompetent teaching beyond belief, if that is what was done.

 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 5:51 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

I don't use the laptop layout in NVDA.  I wouldn't even if I had a laptop without a numpad.  I much prefer the desktop layout.  I haven't looked at the laptop commands much but they don't seem consistent to me in terms of following patterns nearly as much as the desktop layout does.  If you are looking at commands using something like the commands reference and you are using the laptop commands, those are the ones to use.  If you want to get a USB numpad and use the desktop layout, I don't know if you would like the structure more but I prefer it a great deal more.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Cristóbal

Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 5:19 PM

Subject: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

Hello list,

So I am mainly a Jaws user, but have been trying to make the effort to use NVDA more or at least become more proficient with it. The one issue I continue to have with NVDA and just can’t get used to is the keyboard navigation. I know it in part has to do with simple muscle memory with Jaws commands, but outside of the NVDA key (caps lock) plus L command to read the current line, I just cannot get used to not being able to jump around via paragraph or line or word, etc., like in Jaws laptop keyboard layout. Am I just missing something and am not aware of other keyboard navigational keystroke commands in NVDA or is there perhaps an add-on I can install?

Yes, I know there are all the numpad commands, but with Jaws at least, being able to keep one’s hands on the keyboard instead of having to switch back and forth adds up and makes a difference and comfort. And to be clear, I’m not looking for a Jaws clone and am aware that they’re two different products. I’m completely open to this different approach, but this navigational thing is for me anyway proving to be the one major stumbling bock to try to use it more.

I would appreciate any enlightenment.

Thanks,

Cristóbal

 


Re: RES: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

hurrikennyandopo ...
 

Hi


Below is for the word and character.


Announces the current word in the text where the review cursor is positioned. Pressing twice spells the word. Pressing three times spells the word using character descriptions.


Report current character in review
numpad2
NVDA+.
none
Announces the current character on the line of text where the review cursor is positioned. Pressing twice reports a description or example of that character. Pressing three times reports the numeric value of the character in decimal and hexadecimal.


By the way have you got nvda in object review  mode? use the nvda key + the number 1 on the numeric keypad to do this.


Then try it again. The review mode is different to the i think you call it the focus mode. It can get to read only material that you  might not be able to with the arrow keys they are the ones not on the numeric keypad.


Gene nz



On 22/01/2019 3:02 AM, Howard Traxler wrote:

Speaking of keyboard commands:

I'm having trouble getting the current character phonetically.  Using the laptop keyboard layout, NVDA plus period says the character and a second time says it phonetically.  But usually, it reads a character that is not where the insertion point is.  Also would like to be able to read, spell, and spell phonetically, the current word.  Can't seem to make it happen.


On 1/21/2019 6:14 AM, Daniel Damacena wrote:

In the past I was able to use laptop layout when it was necessary. Today, my notebook has the keys needed to use desktop layout, so I use it, but I do not think that the laptop layout is confused or something like that.

 

Anyway, I prefer to use a usb keyboard because it is a lot more comfortable.

Daniel Damacena Bezerra

 

De: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Em nome de Gene
Enviada em: domingo, 20 de janeiro de 2019 20:51
Para: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Assunto: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

I don't use the laptop layout in NVDA.  I wouldn't even if I had a laptop without a numpad.  I much prefer the desktop layout.  I haven't looked at the laptop commands much but they don't seem consistent to me in terms of following patterns nearly as much as the desktop layout does.  If you are looking at commands using something like the commands reference and you are using the laptop commands, those are the ones to use.  If you want to get a USB numpad and use the desktop layout, I don't know if you would like the structure more but I prefer it a great deal more.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 5:19 PM

Subject: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

Hello list,

So I am mainly a Jaws user, but have been trying to make the effort to use NVDA more or at least become more proficient with it. The one issue I continue to have with NVDA and just can’t get used to is the keyboard navigation. I know it in part has to do with simple muscle memory with Jaws commands, but outside of the NVDA key (caps lock) plus L command to read the current line, I just cannot get used to not being able to jump around via paragraph or line or word, etc., like in Jaws laptop keyboard layout. Am I just missing something and am not aware of other keyboard navigational keystroke commands in NVDA or is there perhaps an add-on I can install?

Yes, I know there are all the numpad commands, but with Jaws at least, being able to keep one’s hands on the keyboard instead of having to switch back and forth adds up and makes a difference and comfort. And to be clear, I’m not looking for a Jaws clone and am aware that they’re two different products. I’m completely open to this different approach, but this navigational thing is for me anyway proving to be the one major stumbling bock to try to use it more.

I would appreciate any enlightenment.

Thanks,

Cristóbal

 

--
Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net
 
Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which location (or locations) are nearest to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa).
To find out which software is installed on the APNK network please visit the following link http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.info/faq/software To find out how to use NVDA on APNK computers please visit the following link http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.info/faq/nvda
 

To find out which software is available on the Christchurch City Library network, and how to start the NVDA screen reader, please go to the following links. Software available  https://my.christchurchcitylibraries.com/faq/computers/#faq_5884  How to start the NVDA screen reader on Christchurch City Library computers  https://my.christchurchcitylibraries.com/faqs/what-screen-reader-software-is-available/
 
To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.


Re: NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

Adriani Botez
 

Hello,

 

ah now I understand what you are asking for. No, in NVDA there isn’t such a feature. But you could write to the author of the add-ons sentencenav, textnav and indentnav. His name is Tony Malykh. Maybe he can implement such a feature in one of those add-ons.

 

Basically, what you are requesting is a feature to read current, previous and next character/word/line/paragraph without moving the system carret in edit fields and editors.

 

You could also fill the feature template on Github and propose this feature. The link is here:

https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/new?template=feature_request.md

 

Best

Adriani

 

Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Im Auftrag von Cristóbal
Gesendet: Montag, 21. Januar 2019 19:06
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

With Jaws, I always enable the laptop keyboard layout, be it for my desktops or laptops. Indeed, I do use the numpad and arrow keys for commands, but having the ability to use the same navigational commands on the main keyboard itself as well proves to be a huge efficiency booster and time saver.

I.E. commands such as capslock+N, comma or period for previous character, current character, next character. Capslock+ J, K or L for previous word, current word and next word. Capslock+ U, I or O for previous line, current line and next line. Same for paragraph and sentence, etc.

Again, it’s not that switching back and forth between the main keyboard to either the arrow keys or numpad is especially burdensome, but depending on what you may be doing multiplied by hundreds of times in a day, thee navigational commands via the laptop keyboard layout just feels like a more efficient process of getting things done.

The only command I came across for anything similar with NVDA is the capslock+L command for say current line. It doesn’t seem like there are too many NVDA keystroke commands that make use of the capslock+ the letters on the keyboard. Thus my query if I was in fact missing something and there were in fact keystroke commands beyond this one command or an add-on that expanded on this capability.

So yes, I am well aware of all the various numpad navigational commands as well as using the four arrow keys, but my question was on whether these same commands could also be replicated via the main keyboard. Just use the numpad or arrow keys really doesn’t address my question. If there is in fact not a current means of doing this either through a built in function in NVDA itself or through an add-on, then that would also be good to know.

 

Cristóbal

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 10:38 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

Are you saying you want to use movement commands where you use keyboard commands for movement in JAWS that duplicate the numpad movement commands in desktop layout?  NVDA doesn't have such commands.  The numpad isn't used for that purpose in the desktop layout and such commands aren't duplicated on the laptop.  If that is what you are saying, I think that if you got used to it and gave it time, you would find movement with the keyboard commands such as control plus arrow keys to be as efficient.  Its muscle memory, as you said.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Cristóbal

Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 9:46 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

I’ve been using Jaws going on 18 years now.

I am aware of the various Jaws screen reader and windows numpad keystroke commands.

My query was on commands for navigating via the keyboard in a laptop mode. As I mentioned going back and forth between the keyboard and the numpad/arrow keys for me at least takes away from the efficiency as opposed to with Jaws where you can do navigate by character, word, line or paragraph without ever having to take your hands away from the main keyboard itself. It’s not that going back and forth between the main keyboard and numpad or arrow keys is that big a deal, but do it hundreds of times throughout the day and in the aggregate  can quickly become noticeable and tedious.

Thus my question on whether there were NVDA commands and or an add-on beyond the capslock+L for read current line that also allowed for further navigation without having to use the numpad and even the arrow keys.

 

Cristóbal

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 4:45 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

I should say, on seeing further discussion, that I'm not sure what you mean by jump by word.  As has been said, control down arrow moves down by paragraph and you can use all the standard movement commands.  They are not screen-reader commands.  If someone only taught you the numpad command movement commands in JAWS or the laptop alternative numpad movement commands, that's negligence.  In any screen-reader, or even if you weren't using one, you can use all these commands.  Right arrow, move one character right.  Left arrow, move one character left.  Up arrow, move up one line.  Down arrow, move down one line.  Down by paragraph, control down arrow. 

Up by paragraph, control up arrow.

 

I'm not sure if those are the kinds of commands you want to know but I suspect you were only taught the JAWS numpad or the JAWS laptop movement commands and not the Windows commands and that is incompetent teaching beyond belief, if that is what was done.

 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 5:51 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

I don't use the laptop layout in NVDA.  I wouldn't even if I had a laptop without a numpad.  I much prefer the desktop layout.  I haven't looked at the laptop commands much but they don't seem consistent to me in terms of following patterns nearly as much as the desktop layout does.  If you are looking at commands using something like the commands reference and you are using the laptop commands, those are the ones to use.  If you want to get a USB numpad and use the desktop layout, I don't know if you would like the structure more but I prefer it a great deal more.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Cristóbal

Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 5:19 PM

Subject: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

Hello list,

So I am mainly a Jaws user, but have been trying to make the effort to use NVDA more or at least become more proficient with it. The one issue I continue to have with NVDA and just can’t get used to is the keyboard navigation. I know it in part has to do with simple muscle memory with Jaws commands, but outside of the NVDA key (caps lock) plus L command to read the current line, I just cannot get used to not being able to jump around via paragraph or line or word, etc., like in Jaws laptop keyboard layout. Am I just missing something and am not aware of other keyboard navigational keystroke commands in NVDA or is there perhaps an add-on I can install?

Yes, I know there are all the numpad commands, but with Jaws at least, being able to keep one’s hands on the keyboard instead of having to switch back and forth adds up and makes a difference and comfort. And to be clear, I’m not looking for a Jaws clone and am aware that they’re two different products. I’m completely open to this different approach, but this navigational thing is for me anyway proving to be the one major stumbling bock to try to use it more.

I would appreciate any enlightenment.

Thanks,

Cristóbal

 


Re: Urgent Help With Accessing Google Drive and Docs

Sarah k Alawami
 

Right. I'm also a member of that group. I will do the same.

Take care

On 21 Jan 2019, at 11:00, mohammad suliman wrote:

Hi bhavya,
I my self haven't used docs extensively, so can't comment on your findings. However, my suggestion to you is to post this on accessible, the official google group from google for discussing the accessibility of the different google products I think, and see whether you will get an answer which helps, at-least hopefully your experience will reach the rite people at google. You can find more about this group in the link:
Hope you the best

On Mon, 21 Jan 2019 at 12:29 Bhavya shah <bhavya.shah125@...> wrote:
Dear all,

I will now be required, for certain essential activities, be required
to extensively use Google Docs and in extension Google Drive for the
next several months to collaborate on documents. Given this, it is
imperative that I get well acquainted to Drive and Docs. However, that
is precisely what I am struggling with.

* I began reading AFB's NVDA specific tutorials on Google Drive and
Docs, but my experience with Drive is not exactly corresponding to
what has been instructed.
* This includes things like NVDA being very latent in the tree view
item on Google Drive, at random instances simply getting stuck in a
control which has nothing in it until I Tab out of it, all of which is
preventing me from even managing to go inside a folder and view its
files, let alone open a document and edit it.
* Due to these issues, I am currently relying on direct URLs to files
and documents to access them and subsequently work on and contribute
to them. Another alternative approach I have tried to adopt is to add
this particular shared folder to my own Drive, such that I can access
it on Windows Explorer on my PC itself. In this scenario, there are a
number of important files that are missing from the folder on my
computer which I have had confirmed with my collaborators. Backup and
Sync from Google on my computer contradictorily claims that everything
has been updated.

I am unclear on how to resolve NVDA's laggy behaviour on Google Drive
on the web or instead be able to get all the files in the shared
folder as they are newly created and updated on my computer. I would
greatly appreciate any ideas or suggestions on a more elegant means of
using Google Drive and Docs. Things I intend to try for now are
confined to switching from Firefox to Chrome in hopes that an
alternate web browser may provide better support for NVDA with
Google's web apps.

Thanks.

P.S. I did press Ctrl+Alt+Z to enable screen reader support in Docs,
and switched views in Drive from grid to list.

--
Best Regards
Bhavya Shah

Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/

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