Date   

Re: Meandering NVDA Miscellany (including that it's alive and well)

Arlene
 

No, I didn't think NVDA would die now! It came a long way before it's
time to say goodbye to it. Glad it's not dying for windows 7. I know
next year Microsoft will stop supporting it. The only way I can see
NVDA dying is maybe there's no funds to keep it going. or windows is
getting too complicated to keep it going. the only thing I'd see would
be lack of funding. NVDA rocks! I have the latest version of NVDA but
only Jaws 14 I find the latest version of NVDA more responsive then an
older version of Jaws.

On 2/3/19, molly the blind tech lover <brainardmolly@...> wrote:
Hi.

NVDA is awesome❤



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of marcio via
Groups.Io
Sent: Sunday, February 3, 2019 3:09 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is NVDA really dying? Can I do anything to help?



I second this.
Actually, NVDA is my only one screen reader for now (and I believe it'll
keep this way, I just can't find another as good as this one).
So for the folks on NVDA developing side, thank you for all the things
you've done for us over the years and please, keep up the good job. You guys
are the best :)

Cheers,

Marcio
Follow me on Twitter <https://twitter.com/firirinfonfon>

Em 03/02/2019 15:10, Sam Bushman escreveu:

I am personally grateful for all the fantastic work you guys are doing. I
have several screen readers but NVDA is my favorite. I will do all I can to
see this project continue. Please pass along my gratitude to all involved.

Thanks again,

Sam



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Sunday, February 3, 2019 10:07 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is NVDA really dying? Can I do anything to help?



Hi everyone,

Perhaps to clarify a few things:

* The original Skype post: I think I know where it came from and the
original author. The original context from the Skype post has to do with
perceived issues with recent NVDA releases, especially performance in
certain areas. Recent NVDA development builds have mitigated some issues,
but we (developers) know that we have a mountain to climb over this. To
those who say NVDA might be dying just because a Skype post said this, my
last statement should serve as a fact check for some.
* Support for Windows 7: yes, 2019.1 will support Windows 7. In fact, recent
issues deals with Windows 7 support, so it is still alive. I’m sure NV
Access will announce when we must say goodbye to Windows 7 from NVDA side,
and that can take a while.
* JAWS subscription model and pricing: currently JAWS annual subscription is
available in select markets. Also, note that retail copies of JAWS (as in
when you purchase it) costs slightly more now.
* Narrator’s impact: some of us are already feeling the impact of Narrator
improvements in recent Windows 10 releases. For instance, the fact that
Narrator will try to use UI Automation to communicate with Google Chrome is
a sign that others may follow suit if warranted.
* So who are NVDA developers: currently, Mick Curran and Reef Turner are
lead developers, with Quentin Christensen having a large say in community
communication. Other than these three, there are numerous volunteer
architects and engineers (architects are those specializing in one or more
specialty areas), including James Teh (Australia/Mozilla Foundation and
internal API/browse mode expert), Leonard de Ruijter (Netherlands/Babbage),
Davy Kager (Netherlands and braille specialist), countless volunteer
programmers, translators, and of course, me (United States and
documentation/Windows 10 test pilot).
* So who exactly am I: this is in response to someone mentioning my name as
part of a group of volunteer developers (thank you). Yes, I am a certified
NVDA Expert, a retired NVDA translator, an add-on author and reviewer, and
tutorial producer. All this I do in my spare time; my official job is that
of a student and competitive speaker (California State University, Los
Angeles). And no, I perform NVDA work without pay because of my passion for
this community since 2012. I do know that my work is influential and helped
many of you in many ways, and I’m more proud of that fact than getting my
pull requests integrated into NVDA (you’ll see some of my work in 2019.1,
including improved support for emoji panel, Action Center, and some small
work preparing NVDA for Python 3). But even then, I admit my work is small
compared to other people’s work.



Hope this helps.

Cheers,

Joseph





From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> <nvda@nvda.groups.io
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> > On Behalf Of Clare Page
Sent: Sunday, February 3, 2019 5:26 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is NVDA really dying? Can I do anything to help?



Hi!

Reading this thread about the rumours of NVDA dying, I couldn’t help
thinking: would I be right in guessing that the people who mentioned this
don’t use NVDA themselves? Over the years I’ve come across several users of
other screenreaders who look down on NVDA for different reasons, so maybe
the talk of the death of NVDA was wishful thinking on their part, hoping
we’d all flock to use whatever screenreaders they have. Very cynical, I
know, but I couldn’t get that thought out of my mind, that’s why I expressed
it here; And no, I have no intention of being nasty to users of other
screenreaders, I have simply noticed that some users of any screenreader or
system, sometimes just a tiny minority, are quick to look down on anyone who
doesn’t use the same thing.

However, I’m convinced that there’s plenty of life in NVDA as we discuss
this: look how hard the developers are working to not only keep this
screenreader alive, but also to improve it! We’re all grateful to them, I
know, and I wish to add: keep up the good work! And I’m not just saying that
to keep the rumour-mongers quiet, we want this excellent screenreader to
keep existing for a long time to come. It may have its imperfections, every
screenreader does, but it would only be worth killing off if it’s no good,
and it’s exactly the opposite, an excellent way to access the Windows
operating system for many blind people. Long live NVDA!

Bye for now!

From Clare



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sharni-Lee Ward
Sent: dimanche 3 février 2019 07:32
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is NVDA really dying? Can I do anything to help?



As far as I could tell, all of the people concerned were on Windows 10, not
XP.



I know I'll have to shift away from 7 eventually, but hopefully not any time
this year. I will when I must, but as long as the next release of NVDA will
work on my Win 7 system, I'll be content.

On 3/02/2019 4:33 pm, Ron Canazzi wrote:

Those rumors were probably from who have a Windows 10 phobia. Now there are
performance issues with people trying to run the latest version of NVDA on
Windows XP or earlier. That is flatly stated on this and other NVDA lists
and websites.



Folks, you have to move on past XP and eventually even Windows 7. I am very
conservative when it comes to changing a system that works well. I had an
XP system at least one of the 3 systems I own until early 2018, but I now
have 2 Windows 10 systems playing perfectly with NVDA and I feel a bit
better than with JAWS latest release. I still don't like JAWS identifying
the Windows Explorer windows as multi select list boxes and reading every
item in the displayed columns. Even with the updated scripts for
Thunderbird, JAWS still seems sluggish and clunky when compared to NVDA in
that program.



So there you have it--just my 2 cents.



On 2/2/2019 10:36 PM, Sharni-Lee Ward wrote:

It wasn't on an NVDA skype group, just a misc one for someone's live
streams where all sorts of topics come up. There were some complaints about
performance issues a couple days ago, and that was where the sentiments I
related were mentioned. It upset me quite a bit to hear such things...

On 3/02/2019 1:42 pm, Lino Morales wrote:

I don’t know where the hell you heard that on the Skype group. Are you on
the Skype English group? I’ve not seen any such messages about NVDA going
down hill since James left. Mike, Quenton, and Rafe Turner are doing a fine
job down under along with the devs who are part of the NVDA add-ons
community.



Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows
10



_____

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Sharni-Lee
Ward <mailto:sharni-lee.ward@...> <sharni-lee.ward@...>
Sent: Saturday, February 2, 2019 8:41:06 PM
To: nvda@groups.io <mailto:nvda@groups.io>
Subject: [nvda] Is NVDA really dying? Can I do anything to help?



Hi,


I haven't updated NVDA since 2018.1 due to issues that seemed to crop up
around every release. Now I'm hearing from others in a Skype group I'm a
member of that NVDA has been going downhill since Jamie left the project
and it's going to die outright soon because it can't keep up with
competition.


NVDA has been my screen-reader of choice since I discovered it in late
2011 and I don't want it to be forever lost. I can't donate right now,
and I'm not a programmer, but is there anything I can do to help? This
project has been a faithful friend to me and I want to fight for it in
any way I possibly can.

--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"









Re: Meandering NVDA Miscellany (including that it's alive and well)

molly the blind tech lover
 

Hi.

NVDA is awesome

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of marcio via Groups.Io
Sent: Sunday, February 3, 2019 3:09 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is NVDA really dying? Can I do anything to help?

 

I second this.
Actually, NVDA is my only one screen reader for now (and I believe it'll keep this way, I just can't find another as good as this one).
So for the folks on NVDA developing side, thank you for all the things you've done for us over the years and please, keep up the good job. You guys are the best :)

Cheers,

Em 03/02/2019 15:10, Sam Bushman escreveu:

I am personally grateful for all the fantastic work you guys are doing. I have several screen readers but NVDA is my favorite. I will do all I can to see this project continue. Please pass along my gratitude to all involved.

Thanks again,

Sam

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Sunday, February 3, 2019 10:07 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is NVDA really dying? Can I do anything to help?

 

Hi everyone,

Perhaps to clarify a few things:

  • The original Skype post: I think I know where it came from and the original author. The original context from the Skype post has to do with perceived issues with recent NVDA releases, especially performance in certain areas. Recent NVDA development builds have mitigated some issues, but we (developers) know that we have a mountain to climb over this. To those who say NVDA might be dying just because a Skype post said this, my last statement should serve as a fact check for some.
  • Support for Windows 7: yes, 2019.1 will support Windows 7. In fact, recent issues deals with Windows 7 support, so it is still alive. I’m sure NV Access will announce when we must say goodbye to Windows 7 from NVDA side, and that can take a while.
  • JAWS subscription model and pricing: currently JAWS annual subscription is available in select markets. Also, note that retail copies of JAWS (as in when you purchase it) costs slightly more now.
  • Narrator’s impact: some of us are already feeling the impact of Narrator improvements in recent Windows 10 releases. For instance, the fact that Narrator will try to use UI Automation to communicate with Google Chrome is a sign that others may follow suit if warranted.
  • So who are NVDA developers: currently, Mick Curran and Reef Turner are lead developers, with Quentin Christensen having a large say in community communication. Other than these three, there are numerous volunteer architects and engineers (architects are those specializing in one or more specialty areas), including James Teh (Australia/Mozilla Foundation and internal API/browse mode expert), Leonard de Ruijter (Netherlands/Babbage), Davy Kager (Netherlands and braille specialist), countless volunteer programmers, translators, and of course, me (United States and documentation/Windows 10 test pilot).
  • So who exactly am I: this is in response to someone mentioning my name as part of a group of volunteer developers (thank you). Yes, I am a certified NVDA Expert, a retired NVDA translator, an add-on author and reviewer, and tutorial producer. All this I do in my spare time; my official job is that of a student and competitive speaker (California State University, Los Angeles). And no, I perform NVDA work without pay because of my passion for this community since 2012. I do know that my work is influential and helped many of you in many ways, and I’m more proud of that fact than getting my pull requests integrated into NVDA (you’ll see some of my work in 2019.1, including improved support for emoji panel, Action Center, and some small work preparing NVDA for Python 3). But even then, I admit my work is small compared to other people’s work.

 

Hope this helps.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Clare Page
Sent: Sunday, February 3, 2019 5:26 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is NVDA really dying? Can I do anything to help?

 

Hi!

Reading this thread about the rumours of NVDA dying, I couldn’t help thinking: would I be right in guessing that the people who mentioned this don’t use NVDA themselves? Over the years I’ve come across several users of other screenreaders who look down on NVDA for different reasons, so maybe the talk of the death of NVDA was wishful thinking on their part, hoping we’d all flock to use whatever screenreaders they have. Very cynical, I know, but I couldn’t get that thought out of my mind, that’s why I expressed it here; And no, I have no intention of being nasty to users of other screenreaders, I have simply noticed that some users of any screenreader or system, sometimes just a tiny minority, are quick to look down on anyone who doesn’t use the same thing.

However, I’m convinced that there’s plenty of life in NVDA as we discuss this: look how hard the developers are working to not only keep this screenreader alive, but also to improve it! We’re all grateful to them, I know, and I wish to add: keep up the good work! And I’m not just saying that to keep the rumour-mongers quiet, we want this excellent screenreader to keep existing for a long time to come. It may have its imperfections, every screenreader does, but it would only be worth killing off if it’s no good, and it’s exactly the opposite, an excellent way to access the Windows operating system for many blind people. Long live NVDA!

Bye for now!

From Clare

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sharni-Lee Ward
Sent: dimanche 3 février 2019 07:32
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is NVDA really dying? Can I do anything to help?

 

As far as I could tell, all of the people concerned were on Windows 10, not XP.

 

I know I'll have to shift away from 7 eventually, but hopefully not any time this year. I will when I must, but as long as the next release of NVDA will work on my Win 7 system, I'll be content.

On 3/02/2019 4:33 pm, Ron Canazzi wrote:

Those rumors were probably from who have a Windows 10 phobia.  Now there are performance issues with people trying to run the latest version of NVDA on Windows XP or earlier.  That is flatly stated on this and other NVDA lists and websites.

 

Folks, you have to move on past XP and eventually even Windows 7.  I am very conservative when it comes to changing a system that works well.  I had an XP system at least one of the 3 systems I own until early 2018, but I now have 2 Windows 10 systems playing perfectly with NVDA and I feel a bit better than with JAWS latest release.  I still don't like JAWS identifying the Windows Explorer windows as multi select list boxes and reading every item in the displayed columns. Even with the updated scripts for Thunderbird, JAWS still seems sluggish and clunky when compared to NVDA in that program.   

 

So there you have it--just my 2 cents.

 

On 2/2/2019 10:36 PM, Sharni-Lee Ward wrote:

It wasn't on an NVDA skype group, just a  misc one for someone's live streams where all sorts of topics come up. There were some complaints about performance issues a couple days ago, and that was where the sentiments I related were mentioned. It upset me quite a bit to hear such things...

On 3/02/2019 1:42 pm, Lino Morales wrote:

I don’t know where the hell you heard that on the Skype group. Are you on the Skype English group? I’ve not seen any such messages about NVDA going down hill since James left. Mike, Quenton, and Rafe Turner are doing a fine job down under along with the devs who are part of the NVDA add-ons community.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Sharni-Lee Ward <sharni-lee.ward@...>
Sent: Saturday, February 2, 2019 8:41:06 PM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Is NVDA really dying? Can I do anything to help?

 

Hi,


I haven't updated NVDA since 2018.1 due to issues that seemed to crop up
around every release. Now I'm hearing from others in a Skype group I'm a
member of that NVDA has been going downhill since Jamie left the project
and it's going to die outright soon because it can't keep up with
competition.


NVDA has been my screen-reader of choice since I discovered it in late
2011 and I don't want it to be forever lost. I can't donate right now,
and I'm not a programmer, but is there anything I can do to help? This
project has been a faithful friend to me and I want to fight for it in
any way I possibly can.

-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"

 


Re: Meandering NVDA Miscellany (including that it's alive and well)

Sharni-Lee Ward
 

Thank you for this, Joseph.


This is the last message I will post in this thread, but I'd like to state that I do not in any way agree with the sentiments I discussed when I started the thread, I am very very appreciative of everything the devs do to make this screen reader what it is, and all these positive responses have heartened me and I'm very grateful to hear how unfounded what I was hearing was. Thank you again for your patient and detailed response, and I'm sorry for any distress I may have caused to others on this list.



On 4/02/2019 4:07 am, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi everyone,

Perhaps to clarify a few things:

  • The original Skype post: I think I know where it came from and the original author. The original context from the Skype post has to do with perceived issues with recent NVDA releases, especially performance in certain areas. Recent NVDA development builds have mitigated some issues, but we (developers) know that we have a mountain to climb over this. To those who say NVDA might be dying just because a Skype post said this, my last statement should serve as a fact check for some.
  • Support for Windows 7: yes, 2019.1 will support Windows 7. In fact, recent issues deals with Windows 7 support, so it is still alive. I’m sure NV Access will announce when we must say goodbye to Windows 7 from NVDA side, and that can take a while.
  • JAWS subscription model and pricing: currently JAWS annual subscription is available in select markets. Also, note that retail copies of JAWS (as in when you purchase it) costs slightly more now.
  • Narrator’s impact: some of us are already feeling the impact of Narrator improvements in recent Windows 10 releases. For instance, the fact that Narrator will try to use UI Automation to communicate with Google Chrome is a sign that others may follow suit if warranted.
  • So who are NVDA developers: currently, Mick Curran and Reef Turner are lead developers, with Quentin Christensen having a large say in community communication. Other than these three, there are numerous volunteer architects and engineers (architects are those specializing in one or more specialty areas), including James Teh (Australia/Mozilla Foundation and internal API/browse mode expert), Leonard de Ruijter (Netherlands/Babbage), Davy Kager (Netherlands and braille specialist), countless volunteer programmers, translators, and of course, me (United States and documentation/Windows 10 test pilot).
  • So who exactly am I: this is in response to someone mentioning my name as part of a group of volunteer developers (thank you). Yes, I am a certified NVDA Expert, a retired NVDA translator, an add-on author and reviewer, and tutorial producer. All this I do in my spare time; my official job is that of a student and competitive speaker (California State University, Los Angeles). And no, I perform NVDA work without pay because of my passion for this community since 2012. I do know that my work is influential and helped many of you in many ways, and I’m more proud of that fact than getting my pull requests integrated into NVDA (you’ll see some of my work in 2019.1, including improved support for emoji panel, Action Center, and some small work preparing NVDA for Python 3). But even then, I admit my work is small compared to other people’s work.

 

Hope this helps.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Clare Page
Sent: Sunday, February 3, 2019 5:26 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is NVDA really dying? Can I do anything to help?

 

Hi!

Reading this thread about the rumours of NVDA dying, I couldn’t help thinking: would I be right in guessing that the people who mentioned this don’t use NVDA themselves? Over the years I’ve come across several users of other screenreaders who look down on NVDA for different reasons, so maybe the talk of the death of NVDA was wishful thinking on their part, hoping we’d all flock to use whatever screenreaders they have. Very cynical, I know, but I couldn’t get that thought out of my mind, that’s why I expressed it here; And no, I have no intention of being nasty to users of other screenreaders, I have simply noticed that some users of any screenreader or system, sometimes just a tiny minority, are quick to look down on anyone who doesn’t use the same thing.

However, I’m convinced that there’s plenty of life in NVDA as we discuss this: look how hard the developers are working to not only keep this screenreader alive, but also to improve it! We’re all grateful to them, I know, and I wish to add: keep up the good work! And I’m not just saying that to keep the rumour-mongers quiet, we want this excellent screenreader to keep existing for a long time to come. It may have its imperfections, every screenreader does, but it would only be worth killing off if it’s no good, and it’s exactly the opposite, an excellent way to access the Windows operating system for many blind people. Long live NVDA!

Bye for now!

From Clare

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sharni-Lee Ward
Sent: dimanche 3 février 2019 07:32
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is NVDA really dying? Can I do anything to help?

 

As far as I could tell, all of the people concerned were on Windows 10, not XP.

 

I know I'll have to shift away from 7 eventually, but hopefully not any time this year. I will when I must, but as long as the next release of NVDA will work on my Win 7 system, I'll be content.

On 3/02/2019 4:33 pm, Ron Canazzi wrote:

Those rumors were probably from who have a Windows 10 phobia.  Now there are performance issues with people trying to run the latest version of NVDA on Windows XP or earlier.  That is flatly stated on this and other NVDA lists and websites.

 

Folks, you have to move on past XP and eventually even Windows 7.  I am very conservative when it comes to changing a system that works well.  I had an XP system at least one of the 3 systems I own until early 2018, but I now have 2 Windows 10 systems playing perfectly with NVDA and I feel a bit better than with JAWS latest release.  I still don't like JAWS identifying the Windows Explorer windows as multi select list boxes and reading every item in the displayed columns. Even with the updated scripts for Thunderbird, JAWS still seems sluggish and clunky when compared to NVDA in that program.   

 

So there you have it--just my 2 cents.

 

On 2/2/2019 10:36 PM, Sharni-Lee Ward wrote:

It wasn't on an NVDA skype group, just a  misc one for someone's live streams where all sorts of topics come up. There were some complaints about performance issues a couple days ago, and that was where the sentiments I related were mentioned. It upset me quite a bit to hear such things...

On 3/02/2019 1:42 pm, Lino Morales wrote:

I don’t know where the hell you heard that on the Skype group. Are you on the Skype English group? I’ve not seen any such messages about NVDA going down hill since James left. Mike, Quenton, and Rafe Turner are doing a fine job down under along with the devs who are part of the NVDA add-ons community.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Sharni-Lee Ward <sharni-lee.ward@...>
Sent: Saturday, February 2, 2019 8:41:06 PM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Is NVDA really dying? Can I do anything to help?

 

Hi,


I haven't updated NVDA since 2018.1 due to issues that seemed to crop up
around every release. Now I'm hearing from others in a Skype group I'm a
member of that NVDA has been going downhill since Jamie left the project
and it's going to die outright soon because it can't keep up with
competition.


NVDA has been my screen-reader of choice since I discovered it in late
2011 and I don't want it to be forever lost. I can't donate right now,
and I'm not a programmer, but is there anything I can do to help? This
project has been a faithful friend to me and I want to fight for it in
any way I possibly can.


-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


Re: Meandering NVDA Miscellany (including that it's alive and well)

Jeffrey McFarland
 

What is Jamie's last name and what was his role in the project? 


On Sat, Feb 2, 2019 at 8:41 PM Sharni-Lee Ward <sharni-lee.ward@...> wrote:
Hi,


I haven't updated NVDA since 2018.1 due to issues that seemed to crop up
around every release. Now I'm hearing from others in a Skype group I'm a
member of that NVDA has been going downhill since Jamie left the project
and it's going to die outright soon because it can't keep up with
competition.


NVDA has been my screen-reader of choice since I discovered it in late
2011 and I don't want it to be forever lost. I can't donate right now,
and I'm not a programmer, but is there anything I can do to help? This
project has been a faithful friend to me and I want to fight for it in
any way I possibly can.





Re: Webpages and changing order of hearing control types like "link," etc.

Dennis L <dennisl1982@...>
 

In version I believe alt control r.  it is now f9.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, February 3, 2019 1:17 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Webpages and changing order of hearing control types like "link," etc.

 

My recollection is that the reader button wasn't accessible but it was always accessible from the view menu.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2019 12:07 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Webpages and changing order of hearing control types like "link," etc.

 

On Sun, Feb 3, 2019 at 12:36 PM, Gene wrote:

If that shortcut key was retained after development, it was bad design.

Hence the reason it was eventually changed.  It was bad because it was a three-key press shortcut, too.   That is irrelevant to someone using Windows XP and a version of Firefox that's quite old as well.

All I was trying to do was to answer the question asked, not comment on the wisdom of the design.  There's also a reader button that appears at the right side of address edit box in the old versions of Firefox, but I always keep my browsers absolutely up to date so I can't even play with something as old as 52 to determine how one would access it.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


Re: Meandering NVDA Miscellany (including that it's alive and well)

 

Well said, Felix, well said.
It would be way better if people which think this way could understand that, when it comes to programs and its improvements, the more, the better.
Well maybe someday they will do, let's hope for it.

Cheers,
Marcio
Follow me on Twitter

Em 03/02/2019 12:41, Felix G. escreveu:

Hi,
here's what I don't get: Why would some users of one screen reader
actually wish for another screen reader to disappear? I can understand
when a company decides it would be somewhat cool if the competition
didn't exist. But users? Why would I, for instance, as a Mac user want
Windows to die? Wouldn't it be logical for a JAWS user to be grateful
that NVDA exists because competition improves quality?
Best,
Felix

Am So., 3. Feb. 2019 um 14:35 Uhr schrieb molly the blind tech lover
<brainardmolly@...>:
Hi.

I agree with everything you say.

I love NVDA.

I am so grateful that it exists as it has changed my life for the better. I am so grateful to all the NVDA  developers and contributors.



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Clare Page
Sent: Sunday, February 3, 2019 8:26 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is NVDA really dying? Can I do anything to help?



Hi!

Reading this thread about the rumours of NVDA dying, I couldn’t help thinking: would I be right in guessing that the people who mentioned this don’t use NVDA themselves? Over the years I’ve come across several users of other screenreaders who look down on NVDA for different reasons, so maybe the talk of the death of NVDA was wishful thinking on their part, hoping we’d all flock to use whatever screenreaders they have. Very cynical, I know, but I couldn’t get that thought out of my mind, that’s why I expressed it here; And no, I have no intention of being nasty to users of other screenreaders, I have simply noticed that some users of any screenreader or system, sometimes just a tiny minority, are quick to look down on anyone who doesn’t use the same thing.

However, I’m convinced that there’s plenty of life in NVDA as we discuss this: look how hard the developers are working to not only keep this screenreader alive, but also to improve it! We’re all grateful to them, I know, and I wish to add: keep up the good work! And I’m not just saying that to keep the rumour-mongers quiet, we want this excellent screenreader to keep existing for a long time to come. It may have its imperfections, every screenreader does, but it would only be worth killing off if it’s no good, and it’s exactly the opposite, an excellent way to access the Windows operating system for many blind people. Long live NVDA!

Bye for now!

From Clare



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sharni-Lee Ward
Sent: dimanche 3 février 2019 07:32
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is NVDA really dying? Can I do anything to help?



As far as I could tell, all of the people concerned were on Windows 10, not XP.



I know I'll have to shift away from 7 eventually, but hopefully not any time this year. I will when I must, but as long as the next release of NVDA will work on my Win 7 system, I'll be content.

On 3/02/2019 4:33 pm, Ron Canazzi wrote:

Those rumors were probably from who have a Windows 10 phobia.  Now there are performance issues with people trying to run the latest version of NVDA on Windows XP or earlier.  That is flatly stated on this and other NVDA lists and websites.



Folks, you have to move on past XP and eventually even Windows 7.  I am very conservative when it comes to changing a system that works well.  I had an XP system at least one of the 3 systems I own until early 2018, but I now have 2 Windows 10 systems playing perfectly with NVDA and I feel a bit better than with JAWS latest release.  I still don't like JAWS identifying the Windows Explorer windows as multi select list boxes and reading every item in the displayed columns. Even with the updated scripts for Thunderbird, JAWS still seems sluggish and clunky when compared to NVDA in that program.



So there you have it--just my 2 cents.



On 2/2/2019 10:36 PM, Sharni-Lee Ward wrote:

It wasn't on an NVDA skype group, just a  misc one for someone's live streams where all sorts of topics come up. There were some complaints about performance issues a couple days ago, and that was where the sentiments I related were mentioned. It upset me quite a bit to hear such things...

On 3/02/2019 1:42 pm, Lino Morales wrote:

I don’t know where the hell you heard that on the Skype group. Are you on the Skype English group? I’ve not seen any such messages about NVDA going down hill since James left. Mike, Quenton, and Rafe Turner are doing a fine job down under along with the devs who are part of the NVDA add-ons community.



Sent from Mail for Windows 10



________________________________

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Sharni-Lee Ward <sharni-lee.ward@...>
Sent: Saturday, February 2, 2019 8:41:06 PM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Is NVDA really dying? Can I do anything to help?



Hi,


I haven't updated NVDA since 2018.1 due to issues that seemed to crop up
around every release. Now I'm hearing from others in a Skype group I'm a
member of that NVDA has been going downhill since Jamie left the project
and it's going to die outright soon because it can't keep up with
competition.


NVDA has been my screen-reader of choice since I discovered it in late
2011 and I don't want it to be forever lost. I can't donate right now,
and I'm not a programmer, but is there anything I can do to help? This
project has been a faithful friend to me and I want to fight for it in
any way I possibly can.


--

They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.

They ask: "How Happy are You?"

I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"







Re: Meandering NVDA Miscellany (including that it's alive and well)

 

I second this.
Actually, NVDA is my only one screen reader for now (and I believe it'll keep this way, I just can't find another as good as this one).
So for the folks on NVDA developing side, thank you for all the things you've done for us over the years and please, keep up the good job. You guys are the best :)

Cheers,
Em 03/02/2019 15:10, Sam Bushman escreveu:

I am personally grateful for all the fantastic work you guys are doing. I have several screen readers but NVDA is my favorite. I will do all I can to see this project continue. Please pass along my gratitude to all involved.

Thanks again,

Sam

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Sunday, February 3, 2019 10:07 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is NVDA really dying? Can I do anything to help?

 

Hi everyone,

Perhaps to clarify a few things:

  • The original Skype post: I think I know where it came from and the original author. The original context from the Skype post has to do with perceived issues with recent NVDA releases, especially performance in certain areas. Recent NVDA development builds have mitigated some issues, but we (developers) know that we have a mountain to climb over this. To those who say NVDA might be dying just because a Skype post said this, my last statement should serve as a fact check for some.
  • Support for Windows 7: yes, 2019.1 will support Windows 7. In fact, recent issues deals with Windows 7 support, so it is still alive. I’m sure NV Access will announce when we must say goodbye to Windows 7 from NVDA side, and that can take a while.
  • JAWS subscription model and pricing: currently JAWS annual subscription is available in select markets. Also, note that retail copies of JAWS (as in when you purchase it) costs slightly more now.
  • Narrator’s impact: some of us are already feeling the impact of Narrator improvements in recent Windows 10 releases. For instance, the fact that Narrator will try to use UI Automation to communicate with Google Chrome is a sign that others may follow suit if warranted.
  • So who are NVDA developers: currently, Mick Curran and Reef Turner are lead developers, with Quentin Christensen having a large say in community communication. Other than these three, there are numerous volunteer architects and engineers (architects are those specializing in one or more specialty areas), including James Teh (Australia/Mozilla Foundation and internal API/browse mode expert), Leonard de Ruijter (Netherlands/Babbage), Davy Kager (Netherlands and braille specialist), countless volunteer programmers, translators, and of course, me (United States and documentation/Windows 10 test pilot).
  • So who exactly am I: this is in response to someone mentioning my name as part of a group of volunteer developers (thank you). Yes, I am a certified NVDA Expert, a retired NVDA translator, an add-on author and reviewer, and tutorial producer. All this I do in my spare time; my official job is that of a student and competitive speaker (California State University, Los Angeles). And no, I perform NVDA work without pay because of my passion for this community since 2012. I do know that my work is influential and helped many of you in many ways, and I’m more proud of that fact than getting my pull requests integrated into NVDA (you’ll see some of my work in 2019.1, including improved support for emoji panel, Action Center, and some small work preparing NVDA for Python 3). But even then, I admit my work is small compared to other people’s work.

 

Hope this helps.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Clare Page
Sent: Sunday, February 3, 2019 5:26 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is NVDA really dying? Can I do anything to help?

 

Hi!

Reading this thread about the rumours of NVDA dying, I couldn’t help thinking: would I be right in guessing that the people who mentioned this don’t use NVDA themselves? Over the years I’ve come across several users of other screenreaders who look down on NVDA for different reasons, so maybe the talk of the death of NVDA was wishful thinking on their part, hoping we’d all flock to use whatever screenreaders they have. Very cynical, I know, but I couldn’t get that thought out of my mind, that’s why I expressed it here; And no, I have no intention of being nasty to users of other screenreaders, I have simply noticed that some users of any screenreader or system, sometimes just a tiny minority, are quick to look down on anyone who doesn’t use the same thing.

However, I’m convinced that there’s plenty of life in NVDA as we discuss this: look how hard the developers are working to not only keep this screenreader alive, but also to improve it! We’re all grateful to them, I know, and I wish to add: keep up the good work! And I’m not just saying that to keep the rumour-mongers quiet, we want this excellent screenreader to keep existing for a long time to come. It may have its imperfections, every screenreader does, but it would only be worth killing off if it’s no good, and it’s exactly the opposite, an excellent way to access the Windows operating system for many blind people. Long live NVDA!

Bye for now!

From Clare

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sharni-Lee Ward
Sent: dimanche 3 février 2019 07:32
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is NVDA really dying? Can I do anything to help?

 

As far as I could tell, all of the people concerned were on Windows 10, not XP.

 

I know I'll have to shift away from 7 eventually, but hopefully not any time this year. I will when I must, but as long as the next release of NVDA will work on my Win 7 system, I'll be content.

On 3/02/2019 4:33 pm, Ron Canazzi wrote:

Those rumors were probably from who have a Windows 10 phobia.  Now there are performance issues with people trying to run the latest version of NVDA on Windows XP or earlier.  That is flatly stated on this and other NVDA lists and websites.

 

Folks, you have to move on past XP and eventually even Windows 7.  I am very conservative when it comes to changing a system that works well.  I had an XP system at least one of the 3 systems I own until early 2018, but I now have 2 Windows 10 systems playing perfectly with NVDA and I feel a bit better than with JAWS latest release.  I still don't like JAWS identifying the Windows Explorer windows as multi select list boxes and reading every item in the displayed columns. Even with the updated scripts for Thunderbird, JAWS still seems sluggish and clunky when compared to NVDA in that program.   

 

So there you have it--just my 2 cents.

 

On 2/2/2019 10:36 PM, Sharni-Lee Ward wrote:

It wasn't on an NVDA skype group, just a  misc one for someone's live streams where all sorts of topics come up. There were some complaints about performance issues a couple days ago, and that was where the sentiments I related were mentioned. It upset me quite a bit to hear such things...

On 3/02/2019 1:42 pm, Lino Morales wrote:

I don’t know where the hell you heard that on the Skype group. Are you on the Skype English group? I’ve not seen any such messages about NVDA going down hill since James left. Mike, Quenton, and Rafe Turner are doing a fine job down under along with the devs who are part of the NVDA add-ons community.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Sharni-Lee Ward <sharni-lee.ward@...>
Sent: Saturday, February 2, 2019 8:41:06 PM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Is NVDA really dying? Can I do anything to help?

 

Hi,


I haven't updated NVDA since 2018.1 due to issues that seemed to crop up
around every release. Now I'm hearing from others in a Skype group I'm a
member of that NVDA has been going downhill since Jamie left the project
and it's going to die outright soon because it can't keep up with
competition.


NVDA has been my screen-reader of choice since I discovered it in late
2011 and I don't want it to be forever lost. I can't donate right now,
and I'm not a programmer, but is there anything I can do to help? This
project has been a faithful friend to me and I want to fight for it in
any way I possibly can.

-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


Re: Meandering NVDA Miscellany (including that it's alive and well)

Jason White
 

My understanding is that NV Access employed a new CEO last year, that they have developers who are paid to improve NVDA, and that they're still working hard on the project. If there's any bad news behind the rumours circulated in this thread, then I must have missed it.


On 2/3/19 5:08 AM, Supanut Leepaisomboon wrote:
Those are some very good points, I must say. The fact that NVDA has a new release every few months means that it can more easily cope with the 6-month release cycle of Windows b10.


Re: Webpages and changing order of hearing control types like "link," etc.

Gene
 

My recollection is that the reader button wasn't accessible but it was always accessible from the view menu.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2019 12:07 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Webpages and changing order of hearing control types like "link," etc.

On Sun, Feb 3, 2019 at 12:36 PM, Gene wrote:
If that shortcut key was retained after development, it was bad design.
Hence the reason it was eventually changed.  It was bad because it was a three-key press shortcut, too.   That is irrelevant to someone using Windows XP and a version of Firefox that's quite old as well.

All I was trying to do was to answer the question asked, not comment on the wisdom of the design.  There's also a reader button that appears at the right side of address edit box in the old versions of Firefox, but I always keep my browsers absolutely up to date so I can't even play with something as old as 52 to determine how one would access it.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


Re: Webpages and changing order of hearing control types like "link," etc.

 

On Sun, Feb 3, 2019 at 12:36 PM, Gene wrote:
If that shortcut key was retained after development, it was bad design.
Hence the reason it was eventually changed.  It was bad because it was a three-key press shortcut, too.   That is irrelevant to someone using Windows XP and a version of Firefox that's quite old as well.

All I was trying to do was to answer the question asked, not comment on the wisdom of the design.  There's also a reader button that appears at the right side of address edit box in the old versions of Firefox, but I always keep my browsers absolutely up to date so I can't even play with something as old as 52 to determine how one would access it.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


Re: Meandering NVDA Miscellany (including that it's alive and well)

Gene
 

It isn't difficult to use two screen-readers, especially if you use one as a second screen-reader for doing things like web browsing.  Most of the commands you use with screen-readers are the same because you are using Windows and program commands.  If you know the screen-reader commands for read title bar, setting speech parameters, and turning browse mode off and on, or whatever it is called in the browser being used, you can do enough for most of what most people would use a second screen-reader for. Quick navigation keys such as h, move by heading, n, skip blocks of links, and the others, are mostly standardized now so if you know them in JAWS, you know them or most of them in NVDA.
 
Gene 

----- Original Message -----
From: Jackie
Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2019 11:08 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is NVDA really dying? Can I do anything to help?

Boy, do I *ever* agree w/that! Same can be said for web browsers.
Being blind sucks in that regard, & there are just no 2 ways about it,
though I suspect sometimes sighted folks are forced to jump thru
similar hoops, albeit likely not nearly as often.

On 2/3/19, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
> On Sun, Feb 3, 2019 at 07:31 AM, Gerardo Corripio wrote:
>
>>
>> Hard as I try to make him see reason, and how one needs to be prepared in
>> case,
>
> Having tutored JAWS for some years now, with each and every client I
> emphasize that any screen reader user had better know how to use at least
> one additional screen reader with at least "core functions" skills.  Now,
> with the advent of Windows 10 Version 1809 I'd say they ought to try to
> develop that "core functions" skill set with two additional screen readers.
>
> I have yet to see any screen reader not have occasional difficulty with
> something, particularly specific websites.  Being able to grab an alternate
> screen reader to gain accessibility to a site where your favored screen
> reader is balking is, to my mind, an absolutely essential skill to have.
>
> Those who put all their eggs in one, and only one, screen reader basket will
> suffer the usual consequences.
>
> --
>
> Brian *-* Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763
>
> *A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for
> illusion is deep.*
>
>           ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back
>
>
>
>


--
Subscribe to a WordPress for Newbies Mailing List by sending a message to:
wp4newbs-request@... with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by
visiting the list page at http://www.freelists.org/list/wp4newbs
& check out my sites at www.brighter-vision.com & www.mysitesbeenhacked.com



Re: Webpages and changing order of hearing control types like "link," etc.

Gene
 

If that shortcut key was retained after development, it was bad design.  Control alt is a standard Windows hotkey option and other programs shouldn't use control alt as part of shortcut commands except in specific cases where they shouldn't be used as Windows hot keys.  For example, control alt left and right arrows are alright to use for table navigation by screen-readers.  People shouldn't use control alt left and right arrow keys as Windows hotkeys and also, control left and right arrows are, the only logical keys to use for table navigation.  Of course, control alt up and down arrow are used as well.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2019 10:45 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Webpages and changing order of hearing control types like "link," etc.

On Sun, Feb 3, 2019 at 11:20 AM, Gene wrote:
I am unaware of any Firefox shortcuts that use control alt.
Straight from the bugzilla page when this was under development:  https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1144749
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


Re: web page clickables

molly the blind tech lover
 

Hi.
I've noticed when I open pdf's on my school's webpage NVDA says clickable. Sometimes that's all it says if the pdf isn't accessible. If it is, NVDA says clickable in addition to being able to read the pdf.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Sunday, February 3, 2019 6:47 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] web page clickables

Hmm, I think also they are deemed to be clickable when nvda detects some underlying code on the page that is obviously supposed to do something but the writer either never bothered to indicate what or did not care. I have found that some of these actually open invisible ie invisible to nvda, areas on or over a page with data in them. Its abit like on mouse up down left right hover things that seldom seem to work for us.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Adriani Botez" <adriani.botez@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2019 11:08 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] web page clickables


These are elements which perform an action when you press enter on it. But
they perform only an action if the developer of the website intended it to
do so. Sometimes there are clickable elements which don’t do anything if you
press enter on them.



Best

Adriani







Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Im Auftrag von Robert Doc
Wright godfearer
Gesendet: Sonntag, 3. Februar 2019 12:07
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Betreff: [nvda] web page clickables



What exactly is this and how do I access it ?



Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows
10


Re: Meandering NVDA Miscellany (including that it's alive and well)

Sam Bushman
 

I am personally grateful for all the fantastic work you guys are doing. I have several screen readers but NVDA is my favorite. I will do all I can to see this project continue. Please pass along my gratitude to all involved.

Thanks again,

Sam

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Sunday, February 3, 2019 10:07 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is NVDA really dying? Can I do anything to help?

 

Hi everyone,

Perhaps to clarify a few things:

  • The original Skype post: I think I know where it came from and the original author. The original context from the Skype post has to do with perceived issues with recent NVDA releases, especially performance in certain areas. Recent NVDA development builds have mitigated some issues, but we (developers) know that we have a mountain to climb over this. To those who say NVDA might be dying just because a Skype post said this, my last statement should serve as a fact check for some.
  • Support for Windows 7: yes, 2019.1 will support Windows 7. In fact, recent issues deals with Windows 7 support, so it is still alive. I’m sure NV Access will announce when we must say goodbye to Windows 7 from NVDA side, and that can take a while.
  • JAWS subscription model and pricing: currently JAWS annual subscription is available in select markets. Also, note that retail copies of JAWS (as in when you purchase it) costs slightly more now.
  • Narrator’s impact: some of us are already feeling the impact of Narrator improvements in recent Windows 10 releases. For instance, the fact that Narrator will try to use UI Automation to communicate with Google Chrome is a sign that others may follow suit if warranted.
  • So who are NVDA developers: currently, Mick Curran and Reef Turner are lead developers, with Quentin Christensen having a large say in community communication. Other than these three, there are numerous volunteer architects and engineers (architects are those specializing in one or more specialty areas), including James Teh (Australia/Mozilla Foundation and internal API/browse mode expert), Leonard de Ruijter (Netherlands/Babbage), Davy Kager (Netherlands and braille specialist), countless volunteer programmers, translators, and of course, me (United States and documentation/Windows 10 test pilot).
  • So who exactly am I: this is in response to someone mentioning my name as part of a group of volunteer developers (thank you). Yes, I am a certified NVDA Expert, a retired NVDA translator, an add-on author and reviewer, and tutorial producer. All this I do in my spare time; my official job is that of a student and competitive speaker (California State University, Los Angeles). And no, I perform NVDA work without pay because of my passion for this community since 2012. I do know that my work is influential and helped many of you in many ways, and I’m more proud of that fact than getting my pull requests integrated into NVDA (you’ll see some of my work in 2019.1, including improved support for emoji panel, Action Center, and some small work preparing NVDA for Python 3). But even then, I admit my work is small compared to other people’s work.

 

Hope this helps.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Clare Page
Sent: Sunday, February 3, 2019 5:26 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is NVDA really dying? Can I do anything to help?

 

Hi!

Reading this thread about the rumours of NVDA dying, I couldn’t help thinking: would I be right in guessing that the people who mentioned this don’t use NVDA themselves? Over the years I’ve come across several users of other screenreaders who look down on NVDA for different reasons, so maybe the talk of the death of NVDA was wishful thinking on their part, hoping we’d all flock to use whatever screenreaders they have. Very cynical, I know, but I couldn’t get that thought out of my mind, that’s why I expressed it here; And no, I have no intention of being nasty to users of other screenreaders, I have simply noticed that some users of any screenreader or system, sometimes just a tiny minority, are quick to look down on anyone who doesn’t use the same thing.

However, I’m convinced that there’s plenty of life in NVDA as we discuss this: look how hard the developers are working to not only keep this screenreader alive, but also to improve it! We’re all grateful to them, I know, and I wish to add: keep up the good work! And I’m not just saying that to keep the rumour-mongers quiet, we want this excellent screenreader to keep existing for a long time to come. It may have its imperfections, every screenreader does, but it would only be worth killing off if it’s no good, and it’s exactly the opposite, an excellent way to access the Windows operating system for many blind people. Long live NVDA!

Bye for now!

From Clare

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sharni-Lee Ward
Sent: dimanche 3 février 2019 07:32
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is NVDA really dying? Can I do anything to help?

 

As far as I could tell, all of the people concerned were on Windows 10, not XP.

 

I know I'll have to shift away from 7 eventually, but hopefully not any time this year. I will when I must, but as long as the next release of NVDA will work on my Win 7 system, I'll be content.

On 3/02/2019 4:33 pm, Ron Canazzi wrote:

Those rumors were probably from who have a Windows 10 phobia.  Now there are performance issues with people trying to run the latest version of NVDA on Windows XP or earlier.  That is flatly stated on this and other NVDA lists and websites.

 

Folks, you have to move on past XP and eventually even Windows 7.  I am very conservative when it comes to changing a system that works well.  I had an XP system at least one of the 3 systems I own until early 2018, but I now have 2 Windows 10 systems playing perfectly with NVDA and I feel a bit better than with JAWS latest release.  I still don't like JAWS identifying the Windows Explorer windows as multi select list boxes and reading every item in the displayed columns. Even with the updated scripts for Thunderbird, JAWS still seems sluggish and clunky when compared to NVDA in that program.   

 

So there you have it--just my 2 cents.

 

On 2/2/2019 10:36 PM, Sharni-Lee Ward wrote:

It wasn't on an NVDA skype group, just a  misc one for someone's live streams where all sorts of topics come up. There were some complaints about performance issues a couple days ago, and that was where the sentiments I related were mentioned. It upset me quite a bit to hear such things...

On 3/02/2019 1:42 pm, Lino Morales wrote:

I don’t know where the hell you heard that on the Skype group. Are you on the Skype English group? I’ve not seen any such messages about NVDA going down hill since James left. Mike, Quenton, and Rafe Turner are doing a fine job down under along with the devs who are part of the NVDA add-ons community.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Sharni-Lee Ward <sharni-lee.ward@...>
Sent: Saturday, February 2, 2019 8:41:06 PM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Is NVDA really dying? Can I do anything to help?

 

Hi,


I haven't updated NVDA since 2018.1 due to issues that seemed to crop up
around every release. Now I'm hearing from others in a Skype group I'm a
member of that NVDA has been going downhill since Jamie left the project
and it's going to die outright soon because it can't keep up with
competition.


NVDA has been my screen-reader of choice since I discovered it in late
2011 and I don't want it to be forever lost. I can't donate right now,
and I'm not a programmer, but is there anything I can do to help? This
project has been a faithful friend to me and I want to fight for it in
any way I possibly can.

-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


Re: Meandering NVDA Miscellany (including that it's alive and well)

Jackie
 

Boy, do I *ever* agree w/that! Same can be said for web browsers.
Being blind sucks in that regard, & there are just no 2 ways about it,
though I suspect sometimes sighted folks are forced to jump thru
similar hoops, albeit likely not nearly as often.

On 2/3/19, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
On Sun, Feb 3, 2019 at 07:31 AM, Gerardo Corripio wrote:


Hard as I try to make him see reason, and how one needs to be prepared in
case,
Having tutored JAWS for some years now, with each and every client I
emphasize that any screen reader user had better know how to use at least
one additional screen reader with at least "core functions" skills.  Now,
with the advent of Windows 10 Version 1809 I'd say they ought to try to
develop that "core functions" skill set with two additional screen readers.

I have yet to see any screen reader not have occasional difficulty with
something, particularly specific websites.  Being able to grab an alternate
screen reader to gain accessibility to a site where your favored screen
reader is balking is, to my mind, an absolutely essential skill to have.

Those who put all their eggs in one, and only one, screen reader basket will
suffer the usual consequences.

--

Brian *-* Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763

*A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for
illusion is deep.*

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back



--
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& check out my sites at www.brighter-vision.com & www.mysitesbeenhacked.com


Re: Meandering NVDA Miscellany (including that it's alive and well)

 

Hi everyone,

Perhaps to clarify a few things:

  • The original Skype post: I think I know where it came from and the original author. The original context from the Skype post has to do with perceived issues with recent NVDA releases, especially performance in certain areas. Recent NVDA development builds have mitigated some issues, but we (developers) know that we have a mountain to climb over this. To those who say NVDA might be dying just because a Skype post said this, my last statement should serve as a fact check for some.
  • Support for Windows 7: yes, 2019.1 will support Windows 7. In fact, recent issues deals with Windows 7 support, so it is still alive. I’m sure NV Access will announce when we must say goodbye to Windows 7 from NVDA side, and that can take a while.
  • JAWS subscription model and pricing: currently JAWS annual subscription is available in select markets. Also, note that retail copies of JAWS (as in when you purchase it) costs slightly more now.
  • Narrator’s impact: some of us are already feeling the impact of Narrator improvements in recent Windows 10 releases. For instance, the fact that Narrator will try to use UI Automation to communicate with Google Chrome is a sign that others may follow suit if warranted.
  • So who are NVDA developers: currently, Mick Curran and Reef Turner are lead developers, with Quentin Christensen having a large say in community communication. Other than these three, there are numerous volunteer architects and engineers (architects are those specializing in one or more specialty areas), including James Teh (Australia/Mozilla Foundation and internal API/browse mode expert), Leonard de Ruijter (Netherlands/Babbage), Davy Kager (Netherlands and braille specialist), countless volunteer programmers, translators, and of course, me (United States and documentation/Windows 10 test pilot).
  • So who exactly am I: this is in response to someone mentioning my name as part of a group of volunteer developers (thank you). Yes, I am a certified NVDA Expert, a retired NVDA translator, an add-on author and reviewer, and tutorial producer. All this I do in my spare time; my official job is that of a student and competitive speaker (California State University, Los Angeles). And no, I perform NVDA work without pay because of my passion for this community since 2012. I do know that my work is influential and helped many of you in many ways, and I’m more proud of that fact than getting my pull requests integrated into NVDA (you’ll see some of my work in 2019.1, including improved support for emoji panel, Action Center, and some small work preparing NVDA for Python 3). But even then, I admit my work is small compared to other people’s work.

 

Hope this helps.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Clare Page
Sent: Sunday, February 3, 2019 5:26 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is NVDA really dying? Can I do anything to help?

 

Hi!

Reading this thread about the rumours of NVDA dying, I couldn’t help thinking: would I be right in guessing that the people who mentioned this don’t use NVDA themselves? Over the years I’ve come across several users of other screenreaders who look down on NVDA for different reasons, so maybe the talk of the death of NVDA was wishful thinking on their part, hoping we’d all flock to use whatever screenreaders they have. Very cynical, I know, but I couldn’t get that thought out of my mind, that’s why I expressed it here; And no, I have no intention of being nasty to users of other screenreaders, I have simply noticed that some users of any screenreader or system, sometimes just a tiny minority, are quick to look down on anyone who doesn’t use the same thing.

However, I’m convinced that there’s plenty of life in NVDA as we discuss this: look how hard the developers are working to not only keep this screenreader alive, but also to improve it! We’re all grateful to them, I know, and I wish to add: keep up the good work! And I’m not just saying that to keep the rumour-mongers quiet, we want this excellent screenreader to keep existing for a long time to come. It may have its imperfections, every screenreader does, but it would only be worth killing off if it’s no good, and it’s exactly the opposite, an excellent way to access the Windows operating system for many blind people. Long live NVDA!

Bye for now!

From Clare

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sharni-Lee Ward
Sent: dimanche 3 février 2019 07:32
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is NVDA really dying? Can I do anything to help?

 

As far as I could tell, all of the people concerned were on Windows 10, not XP.

 

I know I'll have to shift away from 7 eventually, but hopefully not any time this year. I will when I must, but as long as the next release of NVDA will work on my Win 7 system, I'll be content.

On 3/02/2019 4:33 pm, Ron Canazzi wrote:

Those rumors were probably from who have a Windows 10 phobia.  Now there are performance issues with people trying to run the latest version of NVDA on Windows XP or earlier.  That is flatly stated on this and other NVDA lists and websites.

 

Folks, you have to move on past XP and eventually even Windows 7.  I am very conservative when it comes to changing a system that works well.  I had an XP system at least one of the 3 systems I own until early 2018, but I now have 2 Windows 10 systems playing perfectly with NVDA and I feel a bit better than with JAWS latest release.  I still don't like JAWS identifying the Windows Explorer windows as multi select list boxes and reading every item in the displayed columns. Even with the updated scripts for Thunderbird, JAWS still seems sluggish and clunky when compared to NVDA in that program.   

 

So there you have it--just my 2 cents.

 

On 2/2/2019 10:36 PM, Sharni-Lee Ward wrote:

It wasn't on an NVDA skype group, just a  misc one for someone's live streams where all sorts of topics come up. There were some complaints about performance issues a couple days ago, and that was where the sentiments I related were mentioned. It upset me quite a bit to hear such things...

On 3/02/2019 1:42 pm, Lino Morales wrote:

I don’t know where the hell you heard that on the Skype group. Are you on the Skype English group? I’ve not seen any such messages about NVDA going down hill since James left. Mike, Quenton, and Rafe Turner are doing a fine job down under along with the devs who are part of the NVDA add-ons community.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Sharni-Lee Ward <sharni-lee.ward@...>
Sent: Saturday, February 2, 2019 8:41:06 PM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Is NVDA really dying? Can I do anything to help?

 

Hi,


I haven't updated NVDA since 2018.1 due to issues that seemed to crop up
around every release. Now I'm hearing from others in a Skype group I'm a
member of that NVDA has been going downhill since Jamie left the project
and it's going to die outright soon because it can't keep up with
competition.


NVDA has been my screen-reader of choice since I discovered it in late
2011 and I don't want it to be forever lost. I can't donate right now,
and I'm not a programmer, but is there anything I can do to help? This
project has been a faithful friend to me and I want to fight for it in
any way I possibly can.


-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


Re: Webpages and changing order of hearing control types like "link," etc.

 

On Sun, Feb 3, 2019 at 11:20 AM, Gene wrote:
I am unaware of any Firefox shortcuts that use control alt.
Straight from the bugzilla page when this was under development:  https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1144749
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


Re: Meandering NVDA Miscellany (including that it's alive and well)

 

On Sun, Feb 3, 2019 at 07:31 AM, Gerardo Corripio wrote:
Hard as I try to make him see reason, and how one needs to be prepared in case,
Having tutored JAWS for some years now, with each and every client I emphasize that any screen reader user had better know how to use at least one additional screen reader with at least "core functions" skills.  Now, with the advent of Windows 10 Version 1809 I'd say they ought to try to develop that "core functions" skill set with two additional screen readers.

I have yet to see any screen reader not have occasional difficulty with something, particularly specific websites.  Being able to grab an alternate screen reader to gain accessibility to a site where your favored screen reader is balking is, to my mind, an absolutely essential skill to have.

Those who put all their eggs in one, and only one, screen reader basket will suffer the usual consequences.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


Re: Meandering NVDA Miscellany (including that it's alive and well)

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

I'd like to see NVDA live for a very long time. I too am grateful to the developers for all the wonderful work they put into it.

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Clare Page
Sent: Sunday, February 3, 2019 5:26 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is NVDA really dying? Can I do anything to help?

 

Hi!

Reading this thread about the rumours of NVDA dying, I couldn’t help thinking: would I be right in guessing that the people who mentioned this don’t use NVDA themselves? Over the years I’ve come across several users of other screenreaders who look down on NVDA for different reasons, so maybe the talk of the death of NVDA was wishful thinking on their part, hoping we’d all flock to use whatever screenreaders they have. Very cynical, I know, but I couldn’t get that thought out of my mind, that’s why I expressed it here; And no, I have no intention of being nasty to users of other screenreaders, I have simply noticed that some users of any screenreader or system, sometimes just a tiny minority, are quick to look down on anyone who doesn’t use the same thing.

However, I’m convinced that there’s plenty of life in NVDA as we discuss this: look how hard the developers are working to not only keep this screenreader alive, but also to improve it! We’re all grateful to them, I know, and I wish to add: keep up the good work! And I’m not just saying that to keep the rumour-mongers quiet, we want this excellent screenreader to keep existing for a long time to come. It may have its imperfections, every screenreader does, but it would only be worth killing off if it’s no good, and it’s exactly the opposite, an excellent way to access the Windows operating system for many blind people. Long live NVDA!

Bye for now!

From Clare

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sharni-Lee Ward
Sent: dimanche 3 février 2019 07:32
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is NVDA really dying? Can I do anything to help?

 

As far as I could tell, all of the people concerned were on Windows 10, not XP.

 

I know I'll have to shift away from 7 eventually, but hopefully not any time this year. I will when I must, but as long as the next release of NVDA will work on my Win 7 system, I'll be content.

On 3/02/2019 4:33 pm, Ron Canazzi wrote:

Those rumors were probably from who have a Windows 10 phobia.  Now there are performance issues with people trying to run the latest version of NVDA on Windows XP or earlier.  That is flatly stated on this and other NVDA lists and websites.

 

Folks, you have to move on past XP and eventually even Windows 7.  I am very conservative when it comes to changing a system that works well.  I had an XP system at least one of the 3 systems I own until early 2018, but I now have 2 Windows 10 systems playing perfectly with NVDA and I feel a bit better than with JAWS latest release.  I still don't like JAWS identifying the Windows Explorer windows as multi select list boxes and reading every item in the displayed columns. Even with the updated scripts for Thunderbird, JAWS still seems sluggish and clunky when compared to NVDA in that program.   

 

So there you have it--just my 2 cents.

 

On 2/2/2019 10:36 PM, Sharni-Lee Ward wrote:

It wasn't on an NVDA skype group, just a  misc one for someone's live streams where all sorts of topics come up. There were some complaints about performance issues a couple days ago, and that was where the sentiments I related were mentioned. It upset me quite a bit to hear such things...

On 3/02/2019 1:42 pm, Lino Morales wrote:

I don’t know where the hell you heard that on the Skype group. Are you on the Skype English group? I’ve not seen any such messages about NVDA going down hill since James left. Mike, Quenton, and Rafe Turner are doing a fine job down under along with the devs who are part of the NVDA add-ons community.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Sharni-Lee Ward <sharni-lee.ward@...>
Sent: Saturday, February 2, 2019 8:41:06 PM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Is NVDA really dying? Can I do anything to help?

 

Hi,


I haven't updated NVDA since 2018.1 due to issues that seemed to crop up
around every release. Now I'm hearing from others in a Skype group I'm a
member of that NVDA has been going downhill since Jamie left the project
and it's going to die outright soon because it can't keep up with
competition.


NVDA has been my screen-reader of choice since I discovered it in late
2011 and I don't want it to be forever lost. I can't donate right now,
and I'm not a programmer, but is there anything I can do to help? This
project has been a faithful friend to me and I want to fight for it in
any way I possibly can.


-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


Re: Webpages and changing order of hearing control types like "link," etc.

Gene
 

Automatic say all is on by default.  It means that a web page will start reading automatically when it is loaded.  it is useful if you want to know when a page has loaded without repeatedly issuing the read to end command.  It has nothing to do with reader view. 
 
I am unaware of any Firefox shortcuts that use control alt.  I have seen commands that use shift alt.  I suspect it is shift alt r.  You can experiment.
 
Also, as I recall, and I haven't used reader view to any extent, it automatically reverts to standard view when you return to or open another page.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: zahra
Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2019 9:54 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Webpages and changing order of hearing control types like "link," etc.

thanks for your help.
do i need to check Automatic Say All on page load on brows mode or not?


On 2/3/19, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
> On Sun, Feb 3, 2019 at 06:48 AM, zahra wrote:
>
>>
>> but i wish to know which key i should i use in firefox 52?
>
> Try CTRL+ALT+R.   It was that for a long time before F9 was finally adopted
> to make the shortcut much more convenient.
>
> --
>
> Brian *-* Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763
>
> *A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for
> illusion is deep.*
>
>           ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back
>
>
>
>


--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali