Date   

Re: Reading parts of the cursor's line

Tony Malykh
 

For malformed HTML tables you can use my BrowserNav add-on to navigate up and down within current column - e.g. it allows you to find vertically aligned blocks of text that are not properly marked as HTML table.

--Tony

On 2/7/2019 8:00 AM, Gene wrote:
I knew about the feature in JAWS but I never understood what it would be used for.  Where would it be used?
 
Also, NVDA needs a way, I only saw this ability in the old ASAP DOS screen-reader, to define a column so you can move with the up and down arrow keys or use read to end and only have a certain column of the screen read.  Let's say you have a document with three columns and you want to arrow through one column from top to bottom.  This can't be done now.  It would be useful in some documents and it would be useful on some web sites where tables are laid out visually to look like tables but have no formatting to tell a screen-reader that a table exists.
 
Gene. 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2019 8:43 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Reading parts of the cursor's line

Then you want my addon.
It's not on the addon site, but should do what you want.

https://github.com/tspivey/partialLines/releases/download/v0.1/partialLines-0.1.nvda-addon

On 2/7/2019 6:12 AM, Robert Geoffroy wrote:
> No problem to read the current line. I often just need reading the line before and/or after the cursor. For instance, with Jaws, insert+7 enable to read the line before the cursor and insert+9 the line after the cursor ! I'd like to do the same with NVDA.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Robert
>
>
> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] De la part de molly the blind tech lover
> Envoyé : jeudi 7 février 2019 15:00
> À : nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Objet : Re: [nvda] Reading parts of the cursor's line
>
> Hi.
> Try pressing NVDA plus L. NVDA will read the current line. Press NVDA plus down arrow. NVDA will read the next line.
> Hope this helps.
>
>
> Molly
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Robert Geoffroy
> Sent: Thursday, February 7, 2019 7:30 AM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: [nvda] Reading parts of the cursor's line
>
> Hi, everyone,
>
> This is one first question: is there any way to read the current line before the cursor and after the cursor as well?
>
> I'm discovering NVDA with enjoyment!
>
> Thanks a lot,
>
> Robert
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>




Re: Problems With NVDA

Travis Siegel <tsiegel@...>
 

Sure it is, if you don't multitask, (have multiple programs open at once), leave programs open for hours at a time, and reboot regularly (meaning every day or two), and don't run programs like microsoft office which has some memory leaks that tend to eat memory the longer they're left open.  For some values of normal usage, yes, 2GB is fine, but for the rest of us, 2GB barely qualifies as enough to run windows os by itself.  Tablets are different, since they have a (slightly) different version of windows that optimizes memory usage, but normal windows, under normal usage patterns, it will not be happy with only 2GB of ram, because it will have to swap a lot, and that will slow things down.  There's a reason computers seem to appear so much faster when upgraded from 2 to 4GB of ram in every single case I've seen, and it's because memory swapping doesn't have to occur nearly as often, and that makes the system much faster overall.  Sure, you can get along with 2GB of ram, but it's like driving a bicycle to get around as opposed to a motorcycle.  Sure, the bicycle will work, but the motorcycle is considerably faster, and can do things the bicycle can't.  Same thing with 2 vs. 4 GB of ram on windows.

Don't fool yourself, there's a reason windows states 2GB as a minimum, it's just that, the minimum required to run the os.  That doesn't mean the os will run optimally or even perform adequately, just that it will run.

On 2/8/2019 5:54 AM, Gene wrote:
That is not true.  2GB is fine for 32bit versions of Windows. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2019 10:27 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems With NVDA

umm, you're confusing ram and storage.  An SD card won't give you more
ram, that will only provide more external storage.  swapping SD cards
allows you to copy more files to those cards, but does nothing for your
RAM, which is where programs run.  2GB is poretty low for any version of
windows, except if you're using a tablet, there's not much you can do
about it. If you're on a pc, it's (usually) easy to upgrade the ram in
the computer, providing you have empty slots or the ram you have isn't
maxed out.  Most machines can only take a limited amount of ram, and you
need to know what that limit is before trying to upgrade the machine.
However, though I don't know for sure, it sounds to me like you're
talking about a tablet, in which case, the ram isn't upgradable.

On 2/7/2019 7:05 PM, Ibrahim Ajayi wrote:
> Hello again:
> I thank all those who found time to respond to my issue.
> Brian, My GBRam is a low grid.  It is just 2GB.  But even with that I
> don't have this problem with JAWS.  But as I said yesterday, chrome
> appears to be reasonably fine with the screen reader, although firefox
> and internet explorer are almost unusable.
> I am thinking of increasing my GB ram with an SDCard.
> Regards.
> Ibrahim.
>
> On 2/7/19, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
> <bglists@...> wrote:
>> Well I'd not go that far but it is faster on lower spec machines,
>> certainly.
>>   Brian
>>
>> bglists@...
>> Sent via blueyonder.
>> Please address personal E-mail to:-
>> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
>> in the display name field.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@...>
>> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2019 8:36 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems With NVDA
>>
>>
>> Use Chrome, it is better than either Firefox or Internet Explorer.
>>
>> All the best
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ibrahim Ajayi
>> Sent: 07 February 2019 00:07
>> To: nvda@groups.io
>> Subject: [nvda] Problems With NVDA
>>
>> Hello:
>> I am having problems with my NVDA screen reader.
>> The screen reader is just too slow when I am browsing the internet.
>> When I am doing some other work like word processing or reading documents
>> off line, it is not slow.
>> This problem has nothing to do with the websites, as I don't have this slow
>>
>> problems online with JAWS.  I use a demo copy of JAWS.
>> Secondly, when I visit a website, or even some times when I launch a web
>> browser like internet explorer or firefox, I hear "internet explorer
>> unknown" or "firefox unknown" and the screen goes quiet, and when I press
>> the arrow down key, that is what I keep hearing.  Some times, when I am on a
>>
>> site, or trying to open a site, the screen reader crashes, and disables the
>>
>> computer itself.  I just have to shut it down, and then restart it all over
>>
>> again.
>> Does anyone understand the problem I am having with my NVDA screen reader?
>> I use windows7 32 bit on a laptop.
>> I have the latest update of the screen reader.
>> Hope to read a helpful response.
>> I am Ibrahim.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>




Virus-free. www.avast.com


Re: NVDA, JAWS, compared to Narrator

Gene
 

That might be why.  Whenever discussing questions of this type, it is important to give the versions of what is being used.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2019 11:21 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA, JAWS, compared to Narrator

It's an old version. Microsoft office 2010.



Re: NVDA, JAWS, compared to Narrator

 

As an interesting aside I find the Guide to Narrator that comes up when you use it the first time (and will come up again unless you check the checkbox on the first screen telling it not to) quite useful.  The Narrator Key is either CAPS LOCK or INSERT, so very familiar to JAWS or NVDA users (probably Window Eyes, too, but I haven't touched it in too long to remember).

The Narrator+F1 sequence brings up a searchable list of all Narrator commands and Narrator+1 does a learning mode.

I really need to start working with Narrator more intensively.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


Re: Clock

_abdel_ <abdelkrim.bensaid@...>
 

Hi Yan, Ron and all,

Please, try this update:

http://cyber25.free.fr/nvda-addons/clock-19.02.nvda-addon

What time format did you choose in the list of available time formats?

Thanks.

Regards,
Abdel.


Le 08/02/2019 à 17:08, _abdel_ via Groups.Io a écrit :
Hi,

I'm Abdel,  one of the contributors to this add-on.

I'll perform an update and will keep you informed for testing.

Thanks for reporting this.

Regards,
Abdel.


Le 08/02/2019 à 16:49, Ron Canazzi a écrit :
This is what happens when you don't read the whole thread. I know all this stuff about the nature and configuration of the military/amateur radio clock time VS local and civilian time.  I was asking the guy who said that the Clock Add on for NVDA what happened when the clock reached 1 minute after 0 hours.


If you had read his original message, you would have seen that this add on was wrongfully saying 2400 hours when the clock reached 0 hours or 12 AM local time.  I asked him what it did after it had reached that point and he answered me that indeed it kept wrongfully identifying 0 hours as 24 hours as in: 2401, 2402, 2403 and so on.



On 2/8/2019 2:11 AM, Shaun Everiss wrote:
No, 24 hour clocks start from 00.

Then its 001 right through to 059.

Then its 100-11200.

000 to 1200 is the same as  am where the 12 hour clock is applied without the extra 0s.

After that its 1300 right to 2359.

24 hour is a military type timescale and can handle just about any timezone.

Where its not critical for normal people in general 12 hours is enough and you start from 1 again, but all clocks are 24 hours they just convert to 12.

The first analog clocks were only 12 hours, I don't know much more than that.

But I know a couple of audio and ham opps that have and continue to enjoy all the time codes and sequences both military and otherwise and have even wrote simulators and have experienced and have demos of the actual military clocks and those first ones were quite large.

The time servers you sync your time to are most likely 24hour.

The reason we civilians use 12 hours is its just easier to handle, but 24 hours is the correct timescale so its worth knowing both or at least the existance of both.

In general unless you are in military, radio, or need to do international business where you need to meet at a certain time you won't need to worry about it generally especially if you do it locally.

If you need to tell someone in a different zone, then you need to refference at some point a universal timezone which is always something like gmt I think could be slightly different, I only know its a us zone and its always 24 hours.

At any rate, even if you never ever have to refference it yourself you may get a refference and have to convert it back for your own zone.

That is basicaly the end of what I have managed to gleen from those I know, as I said earlier I know people that have actually seen the old military clocks and have even toured their instalations and are crazy on that sort of thing.

Its a bit to complex for me to be honest but for the enginiering types  about its used a lot especially if their is interest about.

If you are a ham radio op and there may be a few on here, then you probably know all this and probably know where I am buggering it up to, I can't pretend I know enough of it to fully understand it.

For most of us all you need to be able to do is convert between 12 and 24 hours if you get a time or need to convert a time period.

For that all you need to know is that 24 hours is 23 hours 59 minutes and 59 seconds long.

12 hours starts at 12 and ends at 12.

Thats the only difference you need to know about.

For the rest, its not important to know all 30+ timezones.

What will probably happen these days at any rate is if you do whatever you need to do you would have your computer or phone or both set with clocks of where you would do business or whatever and it would handle things for you.

www.thinkman.com has dimention4, that should handle syncing, its old and hasn't been updated in ages, but then it doesn't need to be, as long as we have time servers its fine.

To be honest, the databases don't change that much, the time clocks are located in military bases or universities.

There may be multiple sources.

I have 4 major clocks in my country.

nntp is the main time extention its acurate and quite fast its relyable.

You may also see standard web http servers and may see a few of those.

Now, for whatever reason to set a timeserver on the web is dead easy and doesn't seem to cost, but using the dedicated time extention nntp does cost so only the big military and universities use it or even both.

nntp like pop3 is ancient, there is a lot of stuff via the web now.

NNtp is also costly to run, again you can do all your own research, you can start at www.worldclock.com, but its important because you will need to select the fastest location in dimention4 or other synced system client.

As a general rule dimention4 will start in a military base in a central region of the us but you should select the closest location so know your citties and pick the closest place to get speed.



On 8/02/2019 6:58 PM, Ron Canazzi wrote:
What happens when it reaches the first minute of the new day? Does it say 0 hours 1 minute or does it say 24 hours and 1 minute?


On 2/8/2019 12:04 AM, Ian Westerland wrote:
Hi! I have set up the clock in NVDA and am wondering why the clock goes to 24:0 after 23:59. Usually a 24 hour clock goes back to zero after 23:59.

Cheers.


Ian Westerland








Re: NVDA, JAWS, compared to Narrator

 

I am running Win10, Version 1809, Home, 64-bit and just tested with Word 2010 and Word 2016.

Narrator will not read document text in Word 2010, but will read it in Word 2016.  This is really not surprising, as Microsoft is not going to try to reach into the wayback machine to ensure infinite backward compatibility between Narrator, which came on the scene with Windows 8, and versions of Office that far predate that OS.

If someone has Word 2013 it would be interesting to know whether Narrator works with it.  This was the first version of Word that has a "look and feel" that's very similar to that in use today.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


Re: NVDA, JAWS, compared to Narrator

Chris Shook <chris0309@...>
 

It's an old version. Microsoft office 2010.


Re: NVDA, JAWS, compared to Narrator

Gene
 

If you can't up and down arrow in Word and read, then no other commands will allow you to read.  In an article I found about Narrator, dated sometime in the summer of 2018, Word is used as an example when reading documents is discussed.  What version of Word are you using?
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2019 10:51 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA, JAWS, compared to Narrator

Windows 10 version 1809.



Re: NVDA, JAWS, compared to Narrator

Chris Shook <chris0309@...>
 

Windows 10 version 1809.


Re: NVDA, JAWS, compared to Narrator

Chris Shook <chris0309@...>
 

Thanks Molly,
What I'm trying to do is read the body of the document, but all I seem to be able to do is access the menus and ribbons.
Chris


Re: NVDA, JAWS, compared to Narrator

Gene
 

What version of Windows are you using?  and not just a version like Windows 10, but the subversion, if there is such a word.  Narrator has changed dramatically over time in Windows 10. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2019 9:26 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA, JAWS, compared to Narrator

Narrator key plus R. didn't help.
Thanks for trying Molly. I appreciate the effort.
Chris



Re: Need help learning Braille

Gene
 

It depends on how someone is going to use Braille. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2019 10:10 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Need help learning Braille

Hi,

Learning contractions is a must as it speeds up reading and writing.

Blessings

Pascal 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Friday, February 8, 2019 10:00 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Need help learning Braille

 

Paper Braille takes a lot of room so for that reason and also, I suspect, to speed up reading, there are lots of contractions for words and letters.  There is a sign for the word "the," a sign for the word "and," the contraction for the word but is the letter b, as examples.  There is an e r sign an a r sign, and an I n g sign, for examples of contractions of letter combinations.

 

Once you learn the alphabet, you can write all words in Braille just as you can write all words in print. I am discussing English that doesn't have accented letters.  But depending on how you want to use Braille, you may well want to learn the contractions.

 

Gene 

----- Original Message -----

From: Sociohack AC

Sent: Friday, February 08, 2019 7:44 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Need help learning Braille

 

Thank you guys for your encouragement! I would definitely initiate learning Braille as soon as possible. As many of you have suggested, even if I don't become proficient enough to read books, I would definitely be able to read notes and make presentations more efficiently. Also, I would like to clarify, many of you talked about contracted Braille. Is that similar to learning short hand for the sighted people?

Once again, thank you all for your feedback and support.
--
Regards,
Sociohack


Re: NVDA, JAWS, compared to Narrator

molly the blind tech lover
 

No problem. I'll play around with Narrator in a Microsoft word document and
see if I can't figure this thing out. I'll get a better idea on how to go
about helping you.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris Shook
Sent: Friday, February 8, 2019 10:27 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA, JAWS, compared to Narrator

Narrator key plus R. didn't help.
Thanks for trying Molly. I appreciate the effort.
Chris


Re: Need help learning Braille

Pascal Lambert <coccinelle86@...>
 

Hi,

Learning contractions is a must as it speeds up reading and writing.

Blessings

Pascal 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Friday, February 8, 2019 10:00 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Need help learning Braille

 

Paper Braille takes a lot of room so for that reason and also, I suspect, to speed up reading, there are lots of contractions for words and letters.  There is a sign for the word "the," a sign for the word "and," the contraction for the word but is the letter b, as examples.  There is an e r sign an a r sign, and an I n g sign, for examples of contractions of letter combinations.

 

Once you learn the alphabet, you can write all words in Braille just as you can write all words in print. I am discussing English that doesn't have accented letters.  But depending on how you want to use Braille, you may well want to learn the contractions.

 

Gene 

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Friday, February 08, 2019 7:44 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Need help learning Braille

 

Thank you guys for your encouragement! I would definitely initiate learning Braille as soon as possible. As many of you have suggested, even if I don't become proficient enough to read books, I would definitely be able to read notes and make presentations more efficiently. Also, I would like to clarify, many of you talked about contracted Braille. Is that similar to learning short hand for the sighted people?

Once again, thank you all for your feedback and support.
--
Regards,
Sociohack


Re: Clock

_abdel_ <abdelkrim.bensaid@...>
 

Hi,

I'm Abdel,  one of the contributors to this add-on.

I'll perform an update and will keep you informed for testing.

Thanks for reporting this.

Regards,
Abdel.

Le 08/02/2019 à 16:49, Ron Canazzi a écrit :
This is what happens when you don't read the whole thread. I know all this stuff about the nature and configuration of the military/amateur radio clock time VS local and civilian time.  I was asking the guy who said that the Clock Add on for NVDA what happened when the clock reached 1 minute after 0 hours.


If you had read his original message, you would have seen that this add on was wrongfully saying 2400 hours when the clock reached 0 hours or 12 AM local time.  I asked him what it did after it had reached that point and he answered me that indeed it kept wrongfully identifying 0 hours as 24 hours as in: 2401, 2402, 2403 and so on.



On 2/8/2019 2:11 AM, Shaun Everiss wrote:
No, 24 hour clocks start from 00.

Then its 001 right through to 059.

Then its 100-11200.

000 to 1200 is the same as  am where the 12 hour clock is applied without the extra 0s.

After that its 1300 right to 2359.

24 hour is a military type timescale and can handle just about any timezone.

Where its not critical for normal people in general 12 hours is enough and you start from 1 again, but all clocks are 24 hours they just convert to 12.

The first analog clocks were only 12 hours, I don't know much more than that.

But I know a couple of audio and ham opps that have and continue to enjoy all the time codes and sequences both military and otherwise and have even wrote simulators and have experienced and have demos of the actual military clocks and those first ones were quite large.

The time servers you sync your time to are most likely 24hour.

The reason we civilians use 12 hours is its just easier to handle, but 24 hours is the correct timescale so its worth knowing both or at least the existance of both.

In general unless you are in military, radio, or need to do international business where you need to meet at a certain time you won't need to worry about it generally especially if you do it locally.

If you need to tell someone in a different zone, then you need to refference at some point a universal timezone which is always something like gmt I think could be slightly different, I only know its a us zone and its always 24 hours.

At any rate, even if you never ever have to refference it yourself you may get a refference and have to convert it back for your own zone.

That is basicaly the end of what I have managed to gleen from those I know, as I said earlier I know people that have actually seen the old military clocks and have even toured their instalations and are crazy on that sort of thing.

Its a bit to complex for me to be honest but for the enginiering types  about its used a lot especially if their is interest about.

If you are a ham radio op and there may be a few on here, then you probably know all this and probably know where I am buggering it up to, I can't pretend I know enough of it to fully understand it.

For most of us all you need to be able to do is convert between 12 and 24 hours if you get a time or need to convert a time period.

For that all you need to know is that 24 hours is 23 hours 59 minutes and 59 seconds long.

12 hours starts at 12 and ends at 12.

Thats the only difference you need to know about.

For the rest, its not important to know all 30+ timezones.

What will probably happen these days at any rate is if you do whatever you need to do you would have your computer or phone or both set with clocks of where you would do business or whatever and it would handle things for you.

www.thinkman.com has dimention4, that should handle syncing, its old and hasn't been updated in ages, but then it doesn't need to be, as long as we have time servers its fine.

To be honest, the databases don't change that much, the time clocks are located in military bases or universities.

There may be multiple sources.

I have 4 major clocks in my country.

nntp is the main time extention its acurate and quite fast its relyable.

You may also see standard web http servers and may see a few of those.

Now, for whatever reason to set a timeserver on the web is dead easy and doesn't seem to cost, but using the dedicated time extention nntp does cost so only the big military and universities use it or even both.

nntp like pop3 is ancient, there is a lot of stuff via the web now.

NNtp is also costly to run, again you can do all your own research, you can start at www.worldclock.com, but its important because you will need to select the fastest location in dimention4 or other synced system client.

As a general rule dimention4 will start in a military base in a central region of the us but you should select the closest location so know your citties and pick the closest place to get speed.



On 8/02/2019 6:58 PM, Ron Canazzi wrote:
What happens when it reaches the first minute of the new day? Does it say 0 hours 1 minute or does it say 24 hours and 1 minute?


On 2/8/2019 12:04 AM, Ian Westerland wrote:
Hi! I have set up the clock in NVDA and am wondering why the clock goes to 24:0 after 23:59. Usually a 24 hour clock goes back to zero after 23:59.

Cheers.


Ian Westerland






Re: Is NVDA Really Dying?

Sarah k Alawami
 

Agreed. I use nvda in my flight sim and it works quite well, see youtube.com/marrie125 for more information.

Take care

On 8 Feb 2019, at 4:46, molly the blind tech lover wrote:

NVDA will always be my favorite screen reader. It is very responsive and does everything I need it to do. It's the best ❤

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss
Sent: Friday, February 8, 2019 12:42 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is NVDA Really Dying?

You know, I still have that issue with narator.

In my opinion, nvda is what narator should be.

I like narator's scan mode but thats it, if nvda could copy the scan mode of narator that would be fine.

Narator is not a screen reader.

It will never be a screen reader in my view.

At most it has been upgraded from an useless crappy gimicy pit of junkware, to a handy and usefull tool with features like the supernova nav mode or jaws virtual curser.

These modes can read to a limited extent buttons, images, and a few things.

Granted, if you use microsoft programs narator is probably going to be fine with that.

Its microsoft so you'd expect it.

If all you want to do is use microsoft apps and microsoft software and nothing else, then I guess narator could be classed as a propper screen reader for microsoft software.

Its a little hit and miss with everything else though.

When it hits and it does mostly then it can be a real help but the chance of a hit and miss are 50 50.

Narator is now a nice tool but thats it.

To even get close to what nvda is.

1. be scriptable and or have addons to increase its functionality.

2. be able to have nvda's navigation features and usual features of a screenreader.

Be able to be used by third parties.

In order for the last one, narator source code needs to be released to just about everyone and microsoft won't do that because they won't.

Its like windows and a few other things,some stuff ms just will not release.

Interestingly I do know that its basically released for free the ms office file engine and most of its kernal, also a lot of windows itself and various components are opensourced or freely available.

They don't make it easy though,you need to know how to use what they released to you.

I'd really like to know for those that have reviewed narator with a really good rating how much money ms are giving them.

Coolblindtech rave about how good narator is.

Nvda connects with the os closer than any other reader I have.

If narator was truely like that, nvda and just about everything else would be dead and gone.

But narator isn't even interacting with the os to the fullest extent that it could.

Narator is good to get things going and good to get you out of a tight spot but thats it.

For those that say its good, then you are just using it in situations where it can understand things.

Now don't get me wrong, narator is no longer crap, its actually a usefull support tool.

But depending on it alone well its not really enough.

Now if all you use are universal apps and microsoft only software then you don't need anything else.

Since most people in this world at least I hope most do use other software then its fine.

Actually the only reason mainly that apple voice over itself is so good is that you are locked in to use apple only software with it, there are limitations when using thirdparty software not as bad as narator but there are limits.

It does concern me, like others are saying, that while they seem to be improving microsoft don't seem to be trying hard enough.

They could distroy vispero, and dolphin and others if they really wanted to.

Actually dolphin would probably just quit they seem to be going quite slowly and are still behind on internet brouser access and this is from a current ish user of their software and not a bash.

If narator blitsed the industry, its not like they would care if they just went.

Vispero would put up a challenge I am sure but exactly why that would be would be unknown.

Its a lot of companies put together, its only defence is probably because microsoft didn't previde before they did and they are one of the oldest screenreader companies but thats about it.

Lets face it, nvda's opensource nature means it can leap faster than well anyone including microsoft.

And while it has its limits to, I do know if microsoft really wanted it they could smash everyone like the hulk, but they don't.

There are barely 2 companies that stand in its way, one of them has become bloated and the other one just hangs in there.

The only reason they don't is probably because of the reputation of narator mainly maybe and also that a lot of governments and others still use jaws and will do so for some time.

Even if everyone went, somehow nvda would probably stay about, its not like nvda and its stuff will ever become an issue for microsoft to deal with, its not like it will ever be a competition type deal for us and microsoft, it does make me wander why they don't just move.

Then again it could be simply because they either don't want to or just don't need to.

With the net in general going tablet to a bigger degree maybe they want to push that boundary.

I do think though that ms lost a great opertunity with windoweyes.

There was a joke that ms would buy gwmicro etc but it never happened.

They got it with office using windoweyes, but no further.

If they brought windoweyes and improved it, then all they would need to do is keep it running with the latest bits and bobs, they wouldn't need narator, and if they did it right they could put it on their microsoft phones and game consoles and suddenly issue solved but they didn't.

The only way this could improve would be if microsoft decided to use nvda freely as their reader of choice, maybe asking us first, and they could freely do whatever with the code in any case to a point.

Then released narator as opensourced or gave the nvaccess group the source of narator and we combine those.

Now that wouldn't be as good as actually grabbing windoweyes when they had the chance but at least there would be room for a functional reader then.

Nvda still has some shortcomings but to be honest thats still fine.

With the fact that we now need bits of nvda loaded anyway and installed to access some secure screens I want to revisit the interceptor display drivers a lot of readers have.

Granted these would be only used if nvda was installed and not generally, heck maybe not all the time only when needed but even if it was all the time or when it was needed, the main reason I was against it is that you didn't have to install nvda, now with win10 you need to install nvda for full functionality so why not nvda needs to be installed anyway and I don't have an issue with that now.

Of course interceptors have their issues, taking from and shifting the display devices about, potentially being unstable but still, now everything runs with uia even intercepts while a lot of stuff with the comercial ones has their own drivers it does interface with things.

I know we have objectnav but I'd like a dolphin or jaws vertual curser and maybe some sort of scan mode to be toggled on and off.

I think that functionality should eventually be something we can probably do without rocking the boat, will have to rename those to something else but we could do it.

To my knowledge, nvda is one of the only programs which includes access to a synth like espeak directly as a low quality fast responce synth.

Its why I put up with espeak, as while it can be robotic and crappy its really fast and works in most situations.



On 8/02/2019 4:49 PM, zahra wrote:

i really hate narrator.
do you remember narrator of windows xp which i use?
narrator never supports my native language and even if i can use it, i
can use it for just english!
iven3 and nvda are the best for me and i always appreciate God and
pray that God grants me this grace to use it forever even if one day i
become completely sighted!
i always appreciate developers and sincerely pray for them.

On 2/6/19, Don H <lmddh50@...> wrote:

You know that everything has a life span. I hope NVDA still has a lot
of years ahead of itself but maybe just maybe Narrator will become a
great screen reader and there will be no need for NVDA or Jaws or any
other screen reader.
Right now NVDA is my screen reader of choice with Jaws being my backup
that I very seldom use.






Re: OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

Ron Canazzi
 

Hi Steve,


Using Thunderbird with the Mozilla add on, you can indeed suppress column headers.


On 2/8/2019 7:29 AM, Steve Nutt wrote:

Jean,

 

If you are using a screen reader to do your job, the last thing you want is to have extra keystrokes just for reading Email.

 

There is this thing called efficiency, and JAWS has it more than NVDA at the moment for me.

 

When NVDA starts really addressing efficiency in terms of Outlook and stuff like that, then it’s worth looking at again.

 

For example, in NVDA, you can’t supress what columns are read in an Email, such as replied, attached, unread, etc, in JAWS you can.  This means you can remove some you don’t want and make the listening experience much nicer.  For example, I remove the Importance flag, because I don’t often get messages that say Importance High, but you can’t get rid of that with NVDA.

 

This is just another area where JAWS is much more efficient than NVDA.  If you are just writing the odd Email at home and don’t use it for work, this is OK, but when the rubber hits the road, JAWS has several efficiencies built in, regarding verbosity and such, that NVDA doesn’t accomplish for me.

 

All the best


Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 08 February 2019 11:26
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

 

I'd use the one that is free and performs very well.  There is such a thing as being fanatically demanding, expecting a screen-reader to do everything perfectly.  I've seen others engage in this sort of fanaticism.  Because screen-readers are what they are, and because Windows and Windows programs are what they are, there are times when you get better performance and eliminate annoyances by maing very minor adaptations to help your screen-reader do its job efficiently.  I am not saying you are fanatical, I don't know your general approach.  But I've seen people go through needless inconvenience and unsuccessful attempts to solve very minor behaviors like this instead of adapting a solution that may take a quarter second per message. 

 

And here is an example of a problem both the other screen-reader, I assume you are referring to JAWS, and NVDA both have.  If you do a search on a web page, you hear a lot of extraneous text.  Read current line as soon as the screen-reader starts to speak eliminates this extra verbiage and may save half a second or a second or more, when hearing the results of a search.

 

With the e-mail program I use, Windows Live Mail, and as I recall, with Outlook Express in the old days, NVDA would read extraneous information when I returned to the message list after reading a message.  It says things like inbox, Windows Live mail Outlook Express message list.  I can eliminate all this by simply using read current line.  How much time does one command take?  a quarter of a second?  It's automatic if you do it for not too long a time. 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Steve Nutt

Sent: Friday, February 08, 2019 5:02 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

 

Yes, but if I don’t need to perform that extra keystroke with every single Email I open with another screen reader, which am I going to use?

 

All the best

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 07 February 2019 15:44
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

 

It is only one more command.  I use it regularly and it takes almost no time and effort because it becomes automatic.  it takes more time and is certainly more annoying to hear the subject read again and I believe some e-mail programs may read other extraneous information. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Steve Nutt

Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2019 9:17 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

 

Too many keystrokes.

 

All the best


Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 07 February 2019 12:53
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

 

You can cause JAWS to read the message body and not read all that extraneous information by getting in the habit of issuing read to end after opening a message.  You may have to experiment to see if you have to wait at all before issuing the command.  If you get in the habit of doing this, it becomes automatic and you can do this very quickly.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2019 5:33 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

 

Hi
I have Outlook 2007 and after pressing enter on a message in the folder
list, NVDA reads the text in the subject box not the whole line, then it
announces the message format, then the control type i.e "Dialog, Message
document, multi-line", then it reads the first line of the message body.

Cheers
Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steve
Nutt
Sent: 6 February 2019 15:09
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

Hi,

I'm using Outlook 2016, and it does indeed read the subject line.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Monte Single
Sent: 06 February 2019 13:03
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

No.  When I open  your message, nvda reads the body of the message, it does
not read the subject line.  Yes, I am using outlook 2013.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steve
Nutt
Sent: February-06-19 6:50 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

Hi,

That's really nothing to do with the differences between JAWS and NVDA,
performing with the same programs.

NVDA is a lot more responsive using Outlook, but it is not very good at
reading the unread messages in the folder tree.

It also insists on reading the subject line again when you open a message,
though I believe you can kill this by making a profile and turning off
object descriptions.

JAWS is more intuitive, just turn off reading message headers in outlook
verbosity.

This is why I say that JAWS is much more intuitive, you have to dive into
some techie detail to figure out some of NVDA's settings.  There is also no
search for settings in NVDA, I'd like to see this kind of thing, JAWS does
it so well.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail
list account via Groups.Io
Sent: 06 February 2019 11:41
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

Jaws seems unable any more to read some of the flags on Outlook Express and
live mail.OK discontinued software but many  still use them like myself with
the former. Its only Microsoft who seem to not want to develop whatwas a
very capable  email and newsgroup  program and chose to use the awfully
limited  windows 10 mail instead or force everyone down the full outlook
route.
 Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2019 9:17 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA


> Hi,
>
> In Windows 10, it still has a hook loaded, but I think that's what
> gives it the advantage.
>
> You can also run a portable version of JAWS without the hook though.
>
> All the best
>
> Steve
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's
> Mail list account via Groups.Io
> Sent: 05 February 2019 18:33
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA
>
> OK we will just use a 1 ton weight instead hanging from a crane
> then...grin I do agree that although the screen and other navigation
> modes are powerful, the issue is the way to use them for those not
> interested in understanding objects children and all of that layered
> stuff. Flat review only seems to be utilising half of the power, but
> since I am not sure what Jaws actually is doing behind the scenes,
> given they probably harvest similar data, I'll leave it at that.
> I do notice though that even today, Jaws has a video interceptor
> loaded in windows 7.
> Brian
>
> bglists@...
> Sent via blueyonder.
> Please address personal E-mail to:-
> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
> in the display name field.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@...>
> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2019 5:03 PM
> Subject: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA
>
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>>
>>
>> With all this talk about 64-bit NVDA would be a lot better, I have to
>> say that NVDA, using CodeFactory's Eloquence add-on, is more
>> responsive for me now than JAWS.
>>
>>
>>
>> Also, another piece of good news, my Windows settings in Control
>> Panel in Windows 10 is now accessible with NVDA, whereas for ages, it
>> wouldn't speak any of that window.  I realise it was limited to a few
>> configurations, but it sure was annoying at the time.  I also realise
>> that these problems are borne of problems with UIA, rather than
>> problems with NVDA.
>>
>>
>>
>> In short, although I have, and will continue to, use JAWS for a while
>> yet,
>
>> I
>> think that NVDA is coming on in leaps and bounds.
>>
>>
>>
>> But there are one or two very silly things about NVDA.  For example,
>> it won't read how many messages are unread in a folder, when you
>> Control+Y in Outlook.  This is seriously annoying to me and one
>> reason I couldn't use it full time.  It is visually there, and JAWS
>> reads it, so in my view, by now, NVDA should read it too.
>>
>>
>>
>> Also, flat review and object nav is not as intuitive as the JAWS cursor.
>> You can't just do a screen find, and click on it.  We really need an
>> equivalent to Hotspot Clicker in NVDA as well.
>>
>>
>>
>> I keep coming back to this, because I want NVDA to be the go-to
>> screen reader for everyone, but I think JAWS still has a little more
>> polish than NVDA.
>>
>>
>>
>> Just one guy's opinion, don't shoot me.
>>
>>
>>
>> All the best
>>
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Computer Room Services
>>
>> 77 Exeter Close
>>
>> Stevenage
>>
>> Hertfordshire
>>
>> SG1 4PW
>>
>> Tel: +44(0)1438-742286
>>
>> Mob: +44(0)7956-334938
>>
>> Fax: +44(0)1438-759589
>>
>> Email:  <mailto:steve@...> steve@...
>>
>> Web:  <http://www.comproom.co.uk/> http://www.comproom.co.uk
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

















-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


Re: Clock

Ron Canazzi
 

This is what happens when you don't read the whole thread. I know all this stuff about the nature and configuration of the military/amateur radio clock time VS local and civilian time.  I was asking the guy who said that the Clock Add on for NVDA what happened when the clock reached 1 minute after 0 hours.


If you had read his original message, you would have seen that this add on was wrongfully saying 2400 hours when the clock reached 0 hours or 12 AM local time.  I asked him what it did after it had reached that point and he answered me that indeed it kept wrongfully identifying 0 hours as 24 hours as in: 2401, 2402, 2403 and so on.

On 2/8/2019 2:11 AM, Shaun Everiss wrote:
No, 24 hour clocks start from 00.

Then its 001 right through to 059.

Then its 100-11200.

000 to 1200 is the same as  am where the 12 hour clock is applied without the extra 0s.

After that its 1300 right to 2359.

24 hour is a military type timescale and can handle just about any timezone.

Where its not critical for normal people in general 12 hours is enough and you start from 1 again, but all clocks are 24 hours they just convert to 12.

The first analog clocks were only 12 hours, I don't know much more than that.

But I know a couple of audio and ham opps that have and continue to enjoy all the time codes and sequences both military and otherwise and have even wrote simulators and have experienced and have demos of the actual military clocks and those first ones were quite large.

The time servers you sync your time to are most likely 24hour.

The reason we civilians use 12 hours is its just easier to handle, but 24 hours is the correct timescale so its worth knowing both or at least the existance of both.

In general unless you are in military, radio, or need to do international business where you need to meet at a certain time you won't need to worry about it generally especially if you do it locally.

If you need to tell someone in a different zone, then you need to refference at some point a universal timezone which is always something like gmt I think could be slightly different, I only know its a us zone and its always 24 hours.

At any rate, even if you never ever have to refference it yourself you may get a refference and have to convert it back for your own zone.

That is basicaly the end of what I have managed to gleen from those I know, as I said earlier I know people that have actually seen the old military clocks and have even toured their instalations and are crazy on that sort of thing.

Its a bit to complex for me to be honest but for the enginiering types  about its used a lot especially if their is interest about.

If you are a ham radio op and there may be a few on here, then you probably know all this and probably know where I am buggering it up to, I can't pretend I know enough of it to fully understand it.

For most of us all you need to be able to do is convert between 12 and 24 hours if you get a time or need to convert a time period.

For that all you need to know is that 24 hours is 23 hours 59 minutes and 59 seconds long.

12 hours starts at 12 and ends at 12.

Thats the only difference you need to know about.

For the rest, its not important to know all 30+ timezones.

What will probably happen these days at any rate is if you do whatever you need to do you would have your computer or phone or both set with clocks of where you would do business or whatever and it would handle things for you.

www.thinkman.com has dimention4, that should handle syncing, its old and hasn't been updated in ages, but then it doesn't need to be, as long as we have time servers its fine.

To be honest, the databases don't change that much, the time clocks are located in military bases or universities.

There may be multiple sources.

I have 4 major clocks in my country.

nntp is the main time extention its acurate and quite fast its relyable.

You may also see standard web http servers and may see a few of those.

Now, for whatever reason to set a timeserver on the web is dead easy and doesn't seem to cost, but using the dedicated time extention nntp does cost so only the big military and universities use it or even both.

nntp like pop3 is ancient, there is a lot of stuff via the web now.

NNtp is also costly to run, again you can do all your own research, you can start at www.worldclock.com, but its important because you will need to select the fastest location in dimention4 or other synced system client.

As a general rule dimention4 will start in a military base in a central region of the us but you should select the closest location so know your citties and pick the closest place to get speed.



On 8/02/2019 6:58 PM, Ron Canazzi wrote:
What happens when it reaches the first minute of the new day? Does it say 0 hours 1 minute or does it say 24 hours and 1 minute?


On 2/8/2019 12:04 AM, Ian Westerland wrote:
Hi! I have set up the clock in NVDA and am wondering why the clock goes to 24:0 after 23:59.  Usually a 24 hour clock goes back to zero after 23:59.

Cheers.


Ian Westerland




--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


Re: NVDA, JAWS, compared to Narrator

Chris Shook <chris0309@...>
 

Narrator key plus R. didn't help.
Thanks for trying Molly. I appreciate the effort.
Chris


Re: OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

Felix G.
 

Hi,
strictly in terms of time, the differences may seem insignificant.
However, repeatedly having to filter out redundant information is
exhausting for the brain. Repeatedly having to type additional
commands puts additional strain on the fingers. Last but definitely
not least, in terms of accumulated stress, perceived inefficiency is
much more significant than actual objective inefficiency. Tell someone
repeatedly for a couple of days that he looks a bit pale, and his
immune system suffers. Make someone repeatedly feel inefficient at
what she is doing, and her sense of self-worth decreases. There is
such a thing as a delightful user experience, and when we fail to
strive for it in the absence of objective utility, people will hate
our solutions.
Best,
Felix

Am Fr., 8. Feb. 2019 um 15:41 Uhr schrieb Gene <gsasner@gmail.com>:


One quarter of one second means that when reading e-mail, you lose one second every four e-mails read. That means that if you read twenty e-mails, you lose 5 seconds. You would have to read 120 e-mails to lose one minute and you could make up that time by setting your speech just a bit faster, hardly noticeable. And we don't kno if that time is actually being lost. By waiting for the screen-reader to start reading on its own, the responsiveness may be slower than if you issue a command to start reading. You may not be losing any time and when you get down to one quarter of a second, if indeed the time is being lost in the first place, you are talking about meaningless differences.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Nutt
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2019 6:29 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

Jean,



If you are using a screen reader to do your job, the last thing you want is to have extra keystrokes just for reading Email.



There is this thing called efficiency, and JAWS has it more than NVDA at the moment for me.



When NVDA starts really addressing efficiency in terms of Outlook and stuff like that, then it’s worth looking at again.



For example, in NVDA, you can’t supress what columns are read in an Email, such as replied, attached, unread, etc, in JAWS you can. This means you can remove some you don’t want and make the listening experience much nicer. For example, I remove the Importance flag, because I don’t often get messages that say Importance High, but you can’t get rid of that with NVDA.



This is just another area where JAWS is much more efficient than NVDA. If you are just writing the odd Email at home and don’t use it for work, this is OK, but when the rubber hits the road, JAWS has several efficiencies built in, regarding verbosity and such, that NVDA doesn’t accomplish for me.



All the best


Steve



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 08 February 2019 11:26
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA



I'd use the one that is free and performs very well. There is such a thing as being fanatically demanding, expecting a screen-reader to do everything perfectly. I've seen others engage in this sort of fanaticism. Because screen-readers are what they are, and because Windows and Windows programs are what they are, there are times when you get better performance and eliminate annoyances by maing very minor adaptations to help your screen-reader do its job efficiently. I am not saying you are fanatical, I don't know your general approach. But I've seen people go through needless inconvenience and unsuccessful attempts to solve very minor behaviors like this instead of adapting a solution that may take a quarter second per message.



And here is an example of a problem both the other screen-reader, I assume you are referring to JAWS, and NVDA both have. If you do a search on a web page, you hear a lot of extraneous text. Read current line as soon as the screen-reader starts to speak eliminates this extra verbiage and may save half a second or a second or more, when hearing the results of a search.



With the e-mail program I use, Windows Live Mail, and as I recall, with Outlook Express in the old days, NVDA would read extraneous information when I returned to the message list after reading a message. It says things like inbox, Windows Live mail Outlook Express message list. I can eliminate all this by simply using read current line. How much time does one command take? a quarter of a second? It's automatic if you do it for not too long a time.

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Steve Nutt

Sent: Friday, February 08, 2019 5:02 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA



Yes, but if I don’t need to perform that extra keystroke with every single Email I open with another screen reader, which am I going to use?



All the best

Steve



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 07 February 2019 15:44
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA



It is only one more command. I use it regularly and it takes almost no time and effort because it becomes automatic. it takes more time and is certainly more annoying to hear the subject read again and I believe some e-mail programs may read other extraneous information.



Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Steve Nutt

Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2019 9:17 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA



Too many keystrokes.



All the best


Steve



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 07 February 2019 12:53
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA



You can cause JAWS to read the message body and not read all that extraneous information by getting in the habit of issuing read to end after opening a message. You may have to experiment to see if you have to wait at all before issuing the command. If you get in the habit of doing this, it becomes automatic and you can do this very quickly.



Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Chris Mullins

Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2019 5:33 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA



Hi
I have Outlook 2007 and after pressing enter on a message in the folder
list, NVDA reads the text in the subject box not the whole line, then it
announces the message format, then the control type i.e "Dialog, Message
document, multi-line", then it reads the first line of the message body.

Cheers
Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steve
Nutt
Sent: 6 February 2019 15:09
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

Hi,

I'm using Outlook 2016, and it does indeed read the subject line.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Monte Single
Sent: 06 February 2019 13:03
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

No. When I open your message, nvda reads the body of the message, it does
not read the subject line. Yes, I am using outlook 2013.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steve
Nutt
Sent: February-06-19 6:50 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

Hi,

That's really nothing to do with the differences between JAWS and NVDA,
performing with the same programs.

NVDA is a lot more responsive using Outlook, but it is not very good at
reading the unread messages in the folder tree.

It also insists on reading the subject line again when you open a message,
though I believe you can kill this by making a profile and turning off
object descriptions.

JAWS is more intuitive, just turn off reading message headers in outlook
verbosity.

This is why I say that JAWS is much more intuitive, you have to dive into
some techie detail to figure out some of NVDA's settings. There is also no
search for settings in NVDA, I'd like to see this kind of thing, JAWS does
it so well.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail
list account via Groups.Io
Sent: 06 February 2019 11:41
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

Jaws seems unable any more to read some of the flags on Outlook Express and
live mail.OK discontinued software but many still use them like myself with
the former. Its only Microsoft who seem to not want to develop whatwas a
very capable email and newsgroup program and chose to use the awfully
limited windows 10 mail instead or force everyone down the full outlook
route.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@comproom.co.uk>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2019 9:17 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA


Hi,

In Windows 10, it still has a hook loaded, but I think that's what
gives it the advantage.

You can also run a portable version of JAWS without the hook though.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's
Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: 05 February 2019 18:33
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

OK we will just use a 1 ton weight instead hanging from a crane
then...grin I do agree that although the screen and other navigation
modes are powerful, the issue is the way to use them for those not
interested in understanding objects children and all of that layered
stuff. Flat review only seems to be utilising half of the power, but
since I am not sure what Jaws actually is doing behind the scenes,
given they probably harvest similar data, I'll leave it at that.
I do notice though that even today, Jaws has a video interceptor
loaded in windows 7.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@comproom.co.uk>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2019 5:03 PM
Subject: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA


Hi all,



With all this talk about 64-bit NVDA would be a lot better, I have to
say that NVDA, using CodeFactory's Eloquence add-on, is more
responsive for me now than JAWS.



Also, another piece of good news, my Windows settings in Control
Panel in Windows 10 is now accessible with NVDA, whereas for ages, it
wouldn't speak any of that window. I realise it was limited to a few
configurations, but it sure was annoying at the time. I also realise
that these problems are borne of problems with UIA, rather than
problems with NVDA.



In short, although I have, and will continue to, use JAWS for a while
yet,
I
think that NVDA is coming on in leaps and bounds.



But there are one or two very silly things about NVDA. For example,
it won't read how many messages are unread in a folder, when you
Control+Y in Outlook. This is seriously annoying to me and one
reason I couldn't use it full time. It is visually there, and JAWS
reads it, so in my view, by now, NVDA should read it too.



Also, flat review and object nav is not as intuitive as the JAWS cursor.
You can't just do a screen find, and click on it. We really need an
equivalent to Hotspot Clicker in NVDA as well.



I keep coming back to this, because I want NVDA to be the go-to
screen reader for everyone, but I think JAWS still has a little more
polish than NVDA.



Just one guy's opinion, don't shoot me.



All the best


Steve



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